Epstein Victims Speak: Historic Press Conference & Don’t F* With Cats Exclusive Deep Dive*

Survivors of Jeffrey Epstein hold a historic press conference demanding full disclosure of government files. Plus, updates on Burning Man, the Long Island Serial Killer case, Adelson, and Morphew—and an exclusive deep dive into the Emmy-winning documentary Don’t F With Cats with Baudi Moovan, who takes us inside the investigation, answers listener questions, and reflects on the global manhunt for Luka Magnotta. Tune in for all the details. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head
up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts and
documentaries and I get to be here every single night
with true crime expert of all things, Courtney Armstrong and
also true crime analyst Body move in and rest assured

(00:39):
because it is Wednesday, September third, and we have a
mega stack night of headlines.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
We talked about this last night. We're going to break
down this homicide as it's being called at burning Man,
this very controversial artistic location in California that has seen
great tragedy. So we're going to unpack that investigation. Also,
we have Don't f with Kats as our you know

(01:07):
watch of the week on our True Crime and Chill
and you Know body is going to give us all
the behind the scenes of what it was like to
be on the show. The documentary was so moving and
powerful to me, specifically, I'm my dad, So we have
tons of burning questions for her. If you have any
please last dips. Now's the time, eight at eight three

(01:31):
one crime. We want to hear from you. And look,
this is one of those nights that we are kind
of crumbling up our list of things to talk about
because it does seem like an important night in the
Gielane Maxwell and Never Ending Jeffrey Epstein's socks heavy. It
feels heavy, and you know, we've we talked about it

(01:53):
before the show just started, and I think we would
be remiss not to acknowledge how heavy it feels and
trigger alert if you have been the victim of abuse
or at the hand of trauma, Listen, this is sort
of triggering. There's no other way around it. And yet
I think we have to discuss it. I do, Yeah,

(02:14):
but it could also be empowering. True, so true, because
a lot of the victims are speaking out and we're
hearing from them well and yeah, and this is the
first time. So I think, you know, if you are
a victim of something like this, you know this might
be you know, your own watershed moment where you might
be empowered a little.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Bit by some of these victims. So I think it's
important that we talk about it.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
And also the silence is the problem, right, being in darkness,
not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
And as was said today, you matter now.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
If you were the victim, if you have been isolated,
if you had been discarded, marginalized, felt as though the
abuse you suffered did not matter, just know that you
are not alone by any means. And by the way,
you're not alone, and you seem to have some backup
and back up from maybe some unexpected places. And I

(03:10):
think that's the spirit of what we want to discuss tonight,
because this gets real political, real quick, and we're going
to try to keep it so not that because it
seems so nonmbartisan to metisan exactly exactly. So this is
not exactly, this is not against any particular side, and

(03:30):
this is certainly not just a chick issue or a
women's issue. And I've been so encouraged by our male
callers and talk backs who have called in to really rally,
So I think we could all sort of delicately and
kindly and bravely like put our arms out and hold
each other close, because this is one of those moments

(03:51):
that that I think is going to count in the
long run. And today was a really powerful day in
the media when it comes to this case. Courtney, do
you want to give us like a summation of where
we are frankly up until air.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
Yeah, today, as you guys said, really was a big
and pivotal moment in this case with Jeffrey Ebstein and
Gillian Maxwell and their sex trafficking history that goes back
three decades. Is exactly about the survivors of this story,
who many and most of whom we have not heard
from until now or seen ever absolutely seen in public.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
I know what dangerous that is.

Speaker 5 (04:33):
So these survivors, they held a historic news conference. It
was on Capitol Hill and they were demanding that the
Department of Justice release more files that are related to
the case. Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle continue
to push for legislation to compel transparency. And this is
amid opposition and some controversy, but it seems like things

(04:58):
are breaking. Things are breaking, and hopefully walls are coming down.
And again both aisles are saying that they are in
support of these files being released and these victims being heard.
And actually, I think we should start from a bite
from one of the victims, and think of the courage

(05:18):
it took for this woman to stand up and say
these words out loud about when she was a girl,
when this assault happened to her, these assaults. This is
Marina Laserda from.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
Fourteen to seventeen years old. I went and worked for
Jeffrey instead of receiving an education. Every day I hope
that he would offer me a real job as one
of his assistant or something something important. That day never came.
I had no way, I had no way out. I
was until you finally told me that I was too old.

Speaker 7 (05:53):
Too old.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I was too old at seventeen years old.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
So do you know how embarrassing and how much shame
is often wrapped around any level of abuse and sexual abuse,
probably particularly, but I think all kinds of abuse, right.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
It is so humiliating and embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So now these women have found the courage to operate
in numbers and come out publicly physically and verbally, to
really show themselves, to say, look, we're not asking for
anything other than truth to be revealed in the light
of day that allegedly the CIA, the FBI government officials

(06:33):
have files that have information in it that would would
give justice.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
This is again not politics. This is about justice. Court.
You just raise your hand right now.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
Oh, I was just I think it's so powerful that
in this issue that has been so crowded and shrouded
in politics, that that veil is being taken off.

Speaker 8 (06:56):
And that's both.

Speaker 5 (06:57):
You know, Marjorie Green Taylor couldn't be more supportive of
the Republican base, you know, her purview, purview of more
than half the country, of course, sure, and yet she
is saying, no, this is this has nothing to do
with politics.

Speaker 8 (07:14):
This has to do with the abuse.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
Of young girls and women and the money that has
kept everything concealed in secrets, and the power that has
been at play. And now it's time for the victims
to take back their power, and as you said, for
the dj the CIA, and the FBI to release the information,
not what happened yesterday, which was literally a re release.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Redundant information that we've already kind of known about, right, ninety.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Seven percent was already in the public domain, that is,
the files that were released yesterday allegedly that we're going
to be very meaningful. You bring up, you know, Marjorie
Taylor Green, she you know I'm going to go on
a limb here. This is not somebody that that I
have had a ton in common with, ideologically speaking, So

(08:04):
for me to watch for me, yeah, I'm going to
be there right with you. And I think that speaks
to the point. Watching her speak tonight on this issue
and frankly feeling very in alignment with her, really shows
how not political this is. This is a human issue.

(08:26):
And if you have a sister, a grandmother, a mother
and aunt, a daughter, this is not And by the way,
if you're the victim as a man of any level
of abuse, that is not to be discounted. But why
are we hovering up for anyone anyone? That is the
problem here? And I think we are now entering a

(08:48):
fever pitch and I'm so desperate to better understand what
everybody here thinks. Our opinions are not the driving force here, right.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Absolutely, And you should call And this is true crime
tonight you're listening to We're on iHeartRadio. Give us a call,
eighty to eighty three to one crime. We're talking about
the victims who have come forth in relation to the
Epstein's sex trafficking case and how powerful that was to
hear all of them, and actually I would love to

(09:19):
go to another one, this one from Lisa Phillips.

Speaker 9 (09:24):
Great I would like to announce here today us Epstein
survivors have been discussing creating our own list. We know
the names, many of us were abused by them. Now
together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names we
all know and who are regularly in the Epstein world,

(09:46):
and it will be done by survivors and for survivors.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Wow, so like we're not actually being believed right now.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
So if those files in and or names of predators
are not going to be released, which all sides and
genders and socioeconomic groups are asking for fairly collectively at
this point, PS, you know some of the key people
Vice President J.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
D Vance, Pam Bondi.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Our eternal General Ash Patel, FBI Director Dan Bongino, who
was going to come in and clean house as our
you know, co deputy director. These are the people that
were actually begging for this information and have been doing
so for many, many years. Why are we suddenly hitting
a wall with transparency? And I think that is at

(10:38):
its root the issue here and again it's a rally
call for anyone who has felt victimized in any category.
I think we could all agree enough is enough and
by the way, if not said enough, you matter now.
And I think the voices are about to get pretty loud, honestly,

(11:01):
even just hearing.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
The victim statements and them being.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Together for what seems like the very first first I
don't even know how that's possible, but like there's you know,
they're sharing stories and like seeing things and hearing things
in there.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
They're connecting dots real time, right, and it's it's humiliating
likely and they're also maybe parents of their own, and
they've lost loved ones and they've lived in shame and
the decisions that have been made because of their lack
of sense of self.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
You know, you hear about somebody who's fourteen years old
who makes the decision to drop out of school to
be beholden to Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
In his every whim is harrowing.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
We also heard first you know, first person, first person,
that Jeffrey Epstein employed a person in high school to
go to their fellow classmates. By the way, she was
also a victim, and that he would pay two hundred
dollars to any high schooler that was recruited and out

(11:58):
of fear and intimidate and fear of further abuse, she
did that and had to say that live at a
press conference in front of the world. That is a
level of courage. By the way, these are adult women
now who have children and lives of their own value.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Only in retrospactor you see like, wow, who hasn't like
done and done it? I would I just raised my
left hand and say in my right hand, I'm going
to raise them both. I have done some things that
I look back on, I'm like, what planet were you on?
Why was that the best decision at that time? And
then you look at the circumstances and you're like, okay,

(12:39):
I mean you have.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
To just know that wiser minds prevail.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
And by the way, time and by the way, I
think it's important to note too, this has been kept
secret for what thirty thirty years this decade?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
And I mean, so those those.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Are powerful secrets, right, kept by powerful men. I'm just
gonna say, kept by powerful people. Yes, right, So these
victims are in front of the world telling you know, hey, listen,
we're going to release our own list.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
Think about how brave that. I mean, you're facing absolute power,
the most powerful people in the world right, not only money,
not only billionaires, but political power right exactly exactly, they
put themselves in danger. Potentially, they are facing.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
A firing squad amongst the world right and are basically
and by the way, many of them have not survived.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Many of them have taken.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Their own lives or have lost their lives to very
sad circumstances because of the trauma that they endured and
also the double trauma of not being believed. And I
think that's also the rally cry here too, the idea
of not being believed. You know, I would say everyone
that I heard speak, you know, feared not being believed

(13:55):
or blaming themselves. And by the way, the predator praise
on the person who would blame themselves. Absolutely, that's like
that you're the target. Actually that's them, that's the person exactly,
which is why we have to talk about it. So
you know, if you've been the victim of anything like this, God,
we're so sorry, and it's like we have to release

(14:18):
the shame, and we just have to release the shame
because that keeps everybody real quiet.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
And guess what predators love real quiet.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
They want they want star and they want you to
be quiet. Exactly shut up, right, exactly.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
Well, these victims are doing anything but shutting up in
this moment as well.

Speaker 8 (14:39):
They should not.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
And one woman excuse my pronunciation, Anuska to Georgio, I
believe she was she was told, she said this, that
she was told by Epstein and Gillian Maxwell that if
she talked quote or if there was trouble, she would
face severe consequences in including.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Death like how are you Oh my gosh, she feared
her mother and her sister or one of them. I
think that was a different one, but like mother, sister
and family back in Brazil feared them being harmed.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
That's the trick here.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
These guys have the reach to do it, of course,
and that's what we're also noticing because if there was
one or two schmcgeggy's on this list, we would know
about it. Again, I just think we need transparency, right,

(15:37):
So listen, this is a heavy night that we don't
want it to be too crazy heavy, but here we are.
Later in the show, though, we are going to do
a deep unpack with body move in our very own
where she's really going to talk to us frankly for
the first time about her experience on Don't f with Kats,
the documentary that she was a part of on Netflix,

(15:58):
which is where you know, we were really all introduced
to her, myself included, and her incredible work on that project.
I think it really put her in the spotlight, and
it did so in such an ethical, beautiful way. So
we're going to learn more about the case, but also
really a lot about bodies experience making that documentary and

(16:20):
more importantly, her investment in the case. So listen, we're
all in this true prime world right, which is very
victim forward. We are all about really giving a moment
for victims to feel heard or to have a voice
when maybe they don't always. So as much as we
don't want to belabor what's sometimes happening in the news

(16:42):
that could feel exhausting and overwhelming, I think we would
be remiss not to discuss what is happening in real
time in the news and in our country. In regards
to the Epstein files and Gileen Maxwell's you know, recent
reduction in security, dare I say she's been moved to

(17:03):
a minimum security prison post her interviews with you know
people that are associated with the current administration again trying
to keep this not political.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Let's just put the politics aside for one second.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
I know we can our community, this true crime crew,
we are people that care, right, So let's all take
our politics hats off. Let's all take gas prices off,
and tariffs and everything scary in the world right now.
I don't know what the million countries that are feuding.
Let's just like put that all away for one second

(17:37):
and just be together for a moment to really think
about the fact that many victims and women have come
forward sharing their tail, which puts them in profound danger
when it comes to the Epstein case, specifically because it
has been rumored and alleged that he was working in
a double sided way, potentially for US their foreign countries. Right,

(18:01):
so this is a world issue, and allegedly there was
a list. Let's also pretend there's no list. We just
want the files with full transparency. And you know, today
again there was a press conference. Many of the victims
have spoken out. Hearing their tail is a pretty harsh

(18:22):
reminder of why this story is so big. In fact,
let's go to Jess Michaels and her testimony today.

Speaker 10 (18:31):
I believed I was alone, and I was kept silent
by the shame that was inside me and by the
fear outside in the world. But I wasn't the only one.
None of us were. And what once kept us silent
now fuels that fire and the power of our voices.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
And so it is right.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
So if that doesn't say it all, and again, this
is a rally call for all victims.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
This is again no politics. No, it is not just
about this specific case. It's about being disbelieved and discounted
and being victimized and not ever getting justice.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
It's interesting she said she thought she was the only one,
and this happened to her nineteen ninety one. I mean
that's thirty thirty four years. She thought she was alone
in this.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Decades of a person's life. And now she's power in numbers.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
Now she has tears that went through the same thing
that she can rely on and talk to. And there
is power in numbers. Right, you can't ignore hundreds like
apparently a thousand women, right, a.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Thousand and these are young, old, I mean, all the things.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
And you know, listen, it was said out loud that
Gilain Maxwell, who again is now at a minimum security
prison serving jail. I think we should call it. Some
call it club fed. You know, that's how low the
security is. She would basically employ young girls, some of
whom were underage, to give her a massage, and then

(20:07):
she would say, Oh, my goodness, that's great.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
So he's gonna love you. Jeffrey's gonna love you.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
And by the way, he'll probably help get you into
such and such or he'll probably help with this job
idea of yours.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
You have a dream. Oh, you are in the right
circle now.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So you're praying on people who maybe feel like they
don't have the world at their fingertips.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
I don't know many of us know what that's like.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
They're looking for opportunities and you know, and they want
to make some assault themselves.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
Yes, exactly, And it's important to hear some of what
the victims actually, yeah said, So just gonna throw some
of them out in case any anybody listening missed the
press conference, because it's really it's hard to hear, and
it's important to hear. Jene Lisa Jones. She spoke about
her absolute fear when she was abused. This happened to

(20:57):
her at the age of fourteen, and her quote is
I had never been more scared in my life than
I was the first time that he hurt me.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
The first time.

Speaker 8 (21:06):
That's right. Take that in. That's right, the first time.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
And she was fourteen, we're talking eighth grade.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
I was worried about what flavory gloss I was going
to wear fourteen, like watermelon or cherry.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
That was my biggest dilemma, and it should be fourteen, Yeah,
Hailey Robinson from that, you don't.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Hailey Robinson, she was sixteen when her began recounted how
Epstein then forced her to bring more young girls to
him from her high school to give him massages. She
was then treated as a criminal, she said. Hailey Robinson
said she is a registered Republican and that Epstein's case
is not a hoax. We are real human beings and
this is real trauma. Now this goes because forty five

(21:49):
minutes after these victims bravely stood on the the you know,
giving this press conference, and it was very bipartisan. There
were Democrats and Republicans there. President Donald Trump said, I'm
going to quote because I want to get it right
from what I understand. Thousands of pages of documents have
been given, but it's really a democratic hoax, a Democrat hoax,

(22:10):
because they're trying to get people to talk about something
that's totally irrelevant to the successes that we've had as
a nation since I've been president. And he said that
forty five minutes after the victims spoke out, which is.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
You know, particularly rich if you will, because President Trump,
when he was campaigning, he made a lot of promises
to do what he is now covering up. In June
of twenty twenty four, this was on the social media
account of Trump's campaigns organization, and the caption was President

(22:44):
Trump says he will declassify all caps the nine one
one files, JFK files, and Epstein files. And that was
said multiple multiple times during the campaign, and of course
now that has switched and he now obviously calling this
these women's real experiences a HOOKX.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
Wow. This is to your crime.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
Tonight on iHeart Radio, I'm Body Moven and I'm here
with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and we're kind of
unpacking the victims that have given a press conference in
the Jeffrey Epstein Glene Maxwell case. If you want to
wig and give us a call. Eighty eight thirty one
Crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeart
Radio app while So, you know, I really think that
this is a pox on both of our houses. Right,

(23:29):
there's we know for sure there's people of high political status,
probably from all over the world in these files, not
just the United States of America. Right, there might be
a high you know, Canadian and there for all I know,
you know what I mean, like, no offense to Canada,
I love you all. I'm just saying like there's probably
from each nation there's probably powerful people and.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Banks and oh yes, of course, I leant for sure say.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
I mean we're we're seeing JP Morgan was being brought
up into this.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
I mean these are Deutsche Bang.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I mean, it's a very very influential, powerful entities.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
Right, And let's not forget that was the crux of
or a large part of how Jeffrey Ebstein and Gleeen
Maxwell made their connection that lasted for so many years,
was that Gilleen Maxwell, you know, grew up and was
a socialite who had access to many influential and powerful people.

(24:25):
Jeffrey Epstein craved that more than anything. From everything that's
been reported and spoken about people who've known him, and
she was able to bring him into circles, and he
was able to bring her into money which she had
lost when her family lost its money. And then from there,
if you believe everyone who has spoken out about their truth,

(24:48):
you know, and went on then for decades.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
And we're talking about a human trafficking ring that is
potentially worldwide, that has been going on for decades, potentially
by sicknific fiant leaders of our world. And that's not
just in politics, right, that is leaders, whether they are financial,
whether they are in tech. These are the biggest, the
industry leaders, industry leaders, religious leaders. We don't know because

(25:14):
again it's being held so sacredly, and they ask us
very simple transparency. We know there are flight logs, we
know there have been there's been tapes. You know, we
saw the FBI leaving you know, Epstein's residents at the
time of his arrest with you know, all these videotapes

(25:35):
and CDs.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
And surveillance footage.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
We know that there were home you know, many conversations
about the idea that potentially Jeffrey Epstein allegedly, allegedly allegedly
was you know, essentially doing what Diddy was once accused
of which was having cameras fixated in places that would
put notorious and famous leaders in compromising pusicians potentially with

(26:02):
women that were not their wives, or underage or or
or and that potentially that information would be used against them.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
And if that is the case.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
That is very big, you know, I have to say,
and this is I feel like I'm gonna I'm burning
from the inside. But I watched the press conference. It
was very bypowers and there was, of course, there was
a Democratic representative and a Republican And I have to say,
when Marjorie Taylor Green spoke, I believed her.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
You did? I believed her? How did you talk for me? Well?
That just that just shows that were overlasted. I thought
the same thing.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
And she basically is saying she gives me putting her
She's putting her job on the line, as are all
of them that are are you know, Republican Republicans that
are speaking out against perhaps who they voted for, are
are working in tandem to basically asking for transparency from
the White House, who ultimately can make the call here.

(27:04):
You know, sharing information that's already been in the public
domain is not particularly satisfying, right, So sharing Gilan Maxwell's
most recent interviews with you know, law enforcement or government
officials in today's current time is also not interesting because
she probably will say whatever she needs to to get released, right.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
So what.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
She got indicted though, and she was found guilty based
on what why are we not seeing those charges? And
why are we protecting any names any? Why are we
protecting any names?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
The end? How bad must it be?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
And by the way, this goes back for decades again
further proving the point that this is not partisan. If
there was a huge smoking gun that made all the
Republicans look bad, I'm pretty darn sure that the Democrats
would we havn't it loud.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
And clear out and about yeah, like Mama would have
released it.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
And by the way, and vice versa.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Well, the fact that really going on for incoming and
incoming and incoming, you know, that is I guess what's
becoming particularly troubling, right, And.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
That's why we stopped happening again.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
And by the way, we heard also today from several
of these victims that they went to authorities, their their
their narratives were taken in, were written down, and nothing
was done. So many girls could have been saved, perhaps
some of the suicides that have happened since this time
also could have been prevented because nothing happened.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
Why right, Annie Farmer, she's now forty six, She's one
of the victims. She says she was taken to New
Mexico at age sixteen. Think about remember the New Mexico
connection that you were talking about last night, yes show,
Oh that's right exactly. So she said she was sixteen.
She said her sister report the abuse, but nothing was done.
So just to what you were saying, Yeah, the abuses

(29:09):
were reported, and you know, nothing ever came of it,
ever absolute.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
Well, just like nothing material happened to Jeffrey Epstein for
when he was you know, brought up on charges.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
In Palm Beach, right, that's right exactly. So for those
that don't know, he did get indicted, but he had
like it was kind of like work release, right.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Alex Acosta, who was the former US attorney at that time,
which I believe was in two thousand and seven to
two thousand and.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Eight, gave him a real sweet deal.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Hey, you're a convicted sex predator, but you're going to
get to go to work every day.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
You can leave at your will.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Go work at your office, actually have access to.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Other young girls.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, yeah, and then he would just have to go
to his low security spot and like have a good
night's rest, and then he'd be off to the races. Again,
who does that fly for? What sexual predator should that
apply to? And by the way, what level of public
safety has not been taken into consideration for everyone around

(30:13):
him at that time? By the way, that was just
the beginning. From there, Jeffrey Epstein went on to do many, many,
many bad things, according to testimony. So had that been
nipped in the butt, then maybe this would be less
of an issue in West Palm Beach. But that's not
where it ended. The story just continued until he it

(30:34):
was eventually, you know, eventually air quotes committed.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Suicide allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
I feel like this is a turning point. Do you
guys feel like this might be a turning point?

Speaker 2 (30:41):
It feels like it is. I'm almost afraid to say it.
And again, we're not looking to perpetuate anything fearful. I
just think we all have to sort of put our
shoulders back. Yeah, let's prepare for you know, let's prepare
for it. So Listen, we're going to be unpacking body
moving experience on Don't f with Cats.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
That's the incredible documentary she was a part of.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
It really put you in the spotlight body and honestly
it's where I met you first, and I love you
so much and I'm so glad that we get this
benefit to actually really hear your version of this firsthand.
And then also there's been some tragedy burning Man, for example.
Burning Man is a really big festival in California.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
I have met a friend of Mata.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Rather have many friends in California that go there and
they prepare for you know, weeks.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Months, almost constantly making costumes.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yes, you wear costumes, you know, and some of them
are a little scantily clad, but you know you're waxed
your tan.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Exactly. You go there full throttle.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
It's a commitment because it's not easy to get to
and you actually have to camp and set.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Up the mio the middle of nowhere totally, and.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
It really does kind of speak to ours, right. This
is where you see installations and pop art, contemporary art.
I've actually never been because the second part of this
tale is probably why it also equally sounds horrifying and
deadlocked and scary, and here we are. That seems to

(32:18):
have been what has happened in this last round. There
was terrible weather, right, Courtney Armstrong, that's right, windstorms. Also
Nevada seems to have always this wacky weather at this time.
But you know, if you're a true Burning manner, you
weather the storm right, you go compell or high water.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
You are there. You're playing all in.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
You are committed and you are embracing the whatever the
thing comes your way until that involves murder.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
So Courtney, yeah, this is a sad story. I mean,
you set the stage for what Burning Man is. It's
a week long festival, it's in Nevada's Black Rock desert,
and very sadly, you know, it took a grim turn
when there was an unidentified man at first and he
was discovered dead. And this was happening during the absolute

(33:12):
climax of this festival on the final weekend. So this man,
his name, excuse my pronunciation, it's Vadim Kruglove. He is
a Russian national. And honestly, his pictures I've seen pictures
of this man and he just looks sporty and outdoorsy

(33:35):
and blonde and happy in the pictures and it's been
deemed a homicide. So a homicide did happen, and sheriff's
officials came out and said, although this act does appear
to be a singular crime, all participant pints should always
be vigilant of surroundings and acquaintances because there is so much.

(34:00):
There's so much going on, and no one's where they
live because they're out in the desert, so you're not.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Gonna they're camping. And there's also a lot of drug
use there. Candid speaking, people are on hallucinogenics.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
You know. Again, no one's looking to fight.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
They're all looking to love and be at peace and
enjoy art. But there's a little of that, if not
a lot of that culturally speaking, at that time, even
those that are not drug users go to Burning Man
and they're like, Okay, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
To just this weekend. Right.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
So imagine you're, you know, seventy thousand cars in because
that's so many cars it takes to get into Burning
Man and you build your big you know thing. They're
these they call them installations. So yeah, there's they usually
want big. Yeah, like you've seen the Burning Man it's
literally a man burning and but like it takes actual

(34:50):
man power in artists, in people community that you know,
they build it together. That's part of the fun and
the payoff is the play. So now a murder, good
luck with that crime scene investigation. What a mess it is.

Speaker 5 (35:04):
It's very tricky and you know, you speak of these
installations and some people they literally work on it for
you know, one year, fifty one weeks out of the
year to then go and put it up, uh for
the week of Burning Man. And Kruglov's friends have said
he he poured his soul into the Burning Man community,

(35:24):
he built camp, he created art installation. They said, this
man was always ready to help others kind. So it's
it's a real loss. Obviously, do they know how he died?
Just homicide, there's no.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Which is he just turns up, a body turns up.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
And now imagine you're also a fellow attendee of this beautiful,
really longstanding historic event that happens every year at this
exact same time. So again the community gets excited to
see each other again next year. So there is a
real love vest happening here. Now there's a murder. You

(36:06):
can't go anywhere, because you're kind of deadlocked in a
way if your car is parked there, like it's not
an easy exit, and you're sort of living off the
land a little.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Bit, so technically you're in peril. What do you do?
And how do you enjoy the rest of the event?

Speaker 7 (36:24):
Right?

Speaker 4 (36:25):
This is True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm buddy move in and I'm
here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
And guess what, guys, we have a caller. We have
Glenn Hi. Glens, Glenn.

Speaker 11 (36:39):
Hi. My point is the Epstein fouls. Trump is scared
to death about what they might reveal. He is shaking
in his boots, and that's why he's trying to eliminate.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
And what do we do though, if that's the case,
Because what do you agree, Glenn that if it was
only Trump, then technically the administration prior would have, you know,
held that banner loud and clear and released the files.
But like, why hasn't anyone released the files even the

(37:28):
previous generation. We heard from Pam Bondi that yeah, Trump
is you know, in the files, the context of which
we have no idea. Maybe they were just you know,
you know, bowling partners or something completely non scary or suspicious.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
But it's such a scary thought, Glenn.

Speaker 5 (37:48):
It really is. Thank you so much for calling Glenn.
We really appreciate your comment. And you know, I think
there is definitely substance to it.

Speaker 8 (38:00):
Find out.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
I do too.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
I think that Glenn definitely is onto something, you know,
I I really do.

Speaker 12 (38:05):
So.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
I have some LISK news though, Oh bring, okay, so
the long listen.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
I'm not allowed to say it Bring.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
I'm not allowed to tell us yes because I can't
say it. I cannot say Long Island serial killer for
whatever reason. It's like a tongue twister to me. But
I have news, So I'm gonna say the Lisk, okay,
because I can say the Lisk.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
All right.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
So this is a major development, all right. There was
a hearing today, it's called a fry hearing, to determine
whether or not this new advancement in DNA would be
allowed in the Lisk trial. Okay, Now, this is super
important that it gets admitted, right. So they had this

(38:48):
fry hearing today and guess what the judge said. It
is admissible. So this is new. This is new for
the state of New York and so that this is
not only going to affect this case, but every case
that comes after it now.

Speaker 8 (39:02):
Right.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
So Rex Huerman, he is a or he was a
New York City architect. He stands up accused of murdering
seven women, possibly eleven. They're still trying to figure out
the links. Seven women between nineteen ninety three and two
thy eleven. This one on for decades, but their remains
discovered in and around Giggle Beach, Long Island. So after

(39:24):
his twenty twenty three arrests, prosecutors pursued the case using
both traditional like forensic methods and new DNA technology now
permitted in a New York courtroom for the first time.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
I have to jump in. Yeah, he's going to take
a plea deal.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Oh yeah, I think so there's no way he's surviving.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
I agree, he's going to take a plea deal and
it's going to be soon.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
But the thing, well, I don't know. There's all death
penalty in New York. Okay, so there's no Yeah, there's
no Like. Here's the thing. You either you either take
your chance and maybe you'll have somebody that has reasonable doubt,
or you take a plea deal. Now, in cases where
there's a death penalty, it's like you take a chance

(40:05):
and you die, right, So that's like a little bit
more like Ooh, I better take this plea deal, you know.
But I do think it might happen, Stephanie, to your point,
I definitely do. This is just very big today, very big.

Speaker 5 (40:18):
Do you know what was the question of the evidence body?

Speaker 8 (40:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Well kind of. I tried to do a little bit
of research on Listen.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
I'm not a scientist, you know what I mean, Like
I would really like to talk to like a DNA
expert to kind of maybe dumb it down to that pace.
That would be so great because I would really like
to learn more about it. But my understanding is they
had mitochondrial DNA, which is like the traditional methods of DNA,
and then they wanted to do they had they found

(40:46):
they found hairs that didn't have a root, and they
wanted to link those victims with those unrooted hair to
rex Huerman and they did that by basically building a genome. Okay,
and they use this company in California that kind of
builds this genome based on the hair without a root,

(41:07):
and so they have to basically assess and like kind
of extrapolate this genome.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Sequencing very major.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
It'smatively the first time this is ever happening in a
case like this.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
The prosecution or the state, I should say, the state
argued that it is admissible in other states like California
and Idaho, for instance. It is admissible in those states,
and so New York needs to kind of catch up.
And the judge agreed, the judge of greed. So I
thought that was really interesting. But you know, there were
there are people who disagreed. You know, there's experts on

(41:42):
both sides who say, you know, this is not a
good thing. You know, they say the company who did
this genome building kind of estimated too much.

Speaker 8 (41:53):
Oh to go.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
Right, And then there's experts on the other side that say, no,
this is how it's done. They did a great job.
So it's kind of like, who do you believe, right,
while the judge believed the state. So yeah, which is
a major win for the prosecution.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
And think about it.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Also, there was something kind of complicated, correct me if
I'm wrong that his wife. So Rex Humorman, the accused
who's currently serving time behind bars, has a wife and
two children, This house that they all lived in has
been under much discussion. You know, we've seen images of it.
I'm actually I grew up not too far from the area.

(42:31):
Their house is a real it's a strange house. It
is on the block, right, So especially architect. Yeah, this
guy was an architect who was like taking the Long
Island railroad to and from work every day to Oyster Bay,
Long Island. You know, he was a commuter and would
do so with his daughter. So now daughter and mom,

(42:52):
who have never been brought up on charges, are brought
into this case in any single way, are somehow kind
of being linked to this because of DNA.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Body, Yeah, from my understanding, and I and I'd have
to go back and look again, but my understanding is
that some of the daughter's hair or the wife's hair
or maybe both even were found in some of these
burlaps or on the victim's bodies or near the victim's bodies.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
So or the belt.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Even that was found. They found a belt. But you
know there they did have a lot more evidence too.
They had like all the cell phones. For instance, one
of the victims, he took her cell phone from her,
like after he killed her and checked checked her voicemail
from an area near his home, which the victim lived

(43:40):
nowhere near you know what I mean? Like, why would
her cell phone be used to check her voicemail near
his home after she died? Right, So there's there's a
lot of different things. And then you know, he he
also would he would also harass one of the victims
families and he would call, oh my gosh, that's right, right,

(44:02):
And that also came from a burner that was near
his home and by the way, was near his office
in Manhattan, So not only was it near his home,
but also traveled to Manhattan with him at the office
and made more.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Calls and went to work with this guy. By the way,
he's also a bajillion feet tall. He was calling one
of the larger men that's ever existed, and witness testimony
would suggest that he was in air quotes ogre and
oversized in very large holy tracks and the belt buckle
that has his father's initials on it also found by

(44:36):
the scene. And these burlap bags and women found in them.
All seemed to happen when his wife was on vacation,
and by the vacation she was like visiting her family.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah, she was in Iceland.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
She was like going to like visit her immediate family.
And then by the way, she has stood by her
man and claims that he remains innocent despite their divorce
and parting of ways, likely for financial reasons. And imagine
daughter son, You know this is their dad. They love him, right,
do you guys know?

Speaker 5 (45:09):
I can't remember if if you are divorced, are you
do you still have no obligation to go on the
stand and speak against your former spouse.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
That's such a great question. I think, do you lose
that privilege?

Speaker 4 (45:24):
That's okay, so she can plea the fifth though, I
mean she doesn't have to say anything.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
So meaning is to kind of unpack that Courtney or
I'm strong, you're suggesting that because husband and wives have privilege,
meaning I do not have to ever testify against my
husband if he has given me any information, including that
about murder.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Does that still real? That still a thing?

Speaker 13 (45:49):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Spousal privilege, espousal privilege? Why do we have spousal privilege?

Speaker 13 (45:53):
Exactly?

Speaker 3 (45:54):
It's such a weird rule. But whatever.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Moving on from that, I'm just not I don't know
enough about it. But secondly, if they get divorced. Now
their finances are no longer tethered together.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
But yeah, could she testify?

Speaker 14 (46:08):
I know.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
It's been slightly a heavy night.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
There's been a lot of new developments in the Epstein
Gilain Maxwell case, many survivors coming forward. It's becoming very controversial.
If it hasn't been already, If you've missed any of
the show, No Sweat, just check out the first hour
as a podcast right after this, but also join the

(46:42):
conversation eight at eight three to one crime or hit
us up on our socials, on our True Crime Tonight
app on the iHeartRadio app. It just you push the
right hand button in the right hand corner of the
screen and boom, you were on the show, and listen.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
We want to hear your opinion about all of it.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
So we're finally entering a stage where we get to
hear about Body and her experience in Don't f with
Cats that's coming up in.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Just a bit. Why do you look so surprised? Body?
Just nervous? I don't like why do you feel.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
I don't have any problems talking about other people like
you know you guys know I'm a bit.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Of a gossip. Eyes just popped out of your head,
I know, like just you know, it's just.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I like talking about other people, not me. Oh well
a very safe again, safe room. We're in a safe room,
safe audience. But it's just really interesting to hear sort
of your your behind the scenes to sure right, which
is a little different than maybe what we all got
to watch on the dock. And it's also where I
first met you. So selfishly, I want to unpack and

(47:52):
give you a proper platform to talk about your experience.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
And plus I'm going to share some exclusive stuff about
the case that wasn't shared in the documentary that I
always thought was like super important but for whatever reason,
got caught out by the show exactly to.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
Do sirs, that's why Dunn Dunn Armstrong.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Is there something that you want to cover first?

Speaker 5 (48:13):
Well, yeah, I would actually love to hop into the
Barry Morphew case.

Speaker 8 (48:19):
So this guy, if.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
You remember, he is accused of murdering his wife, Suzanne.
She went on an alleged beautiful Mother's Day bike ride
in twenty twenty and then her remains were discovered in
a shallow grave years later. Initially, the case was dismissed.
That was due to insufficient evidence and there was I

(48:44):
believe some legal stuff that went on that was not
good at all. However, he was re indicted by a
grand jury, Barry Morphew, and this was just in June
twenty twenty four. This was following discovery of forensic findings.
Well in news that I feel is good, a judge

(49:05):
has denied Barry Morphew's bail reduction, which the I mean, listen,
innocent until proven guilty. That is the country in which
we live. So I guess fight every battle you can.
But he was denied, nonetheless.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Right denied, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
And you know it comes with a However, however, they
did allow a special kind of bond option and that
can maybe keep some of the money. He can work
it out with the bail bondsman instead of paying the
full amount in cash.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
You know, we should remind viewers about her body because
it's very interesting. So if you don't know, this case
is as Courtney mentioned, you know, she went for Suzanne
went for a bike ride and you know, disappeared. Basically,
they found her bike and for years her body wasn't found.

Speaker 8 (50:05):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Well, when they found her body, she was in a
shallow grave like you mentioned, and it appeared that her
clothes had been changed, right, so basically her body had
been moved, and they know this because of the lack
of you know, critters, bugs roads in her her bones
had been bleached, and you know, there's been a lot

(50:27):
of talk about her bones being bleached. Initially, you know
Barry Morphew, he was in a hotel room, you know,
he was a landscaper and he was on a wark
trip I'm using air quotes right now, on a work
trip when she went missing, and the hotel room.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
He was in smelled like bleach, it was reported.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
And so when the report came out that her bones
had been bleached, my first thought was bones had been bleached.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Her hotel room smelled like bleach.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
Well, when we had Joseph Scott Morgan on the show,
he informed us that meant that the sun had been
bearing down on her body at some point. Well, now
there's talk again on the internet, not through official channels,
but on the internet that know it is bleach. They're
talking about like the chemical of some kind. And I'm like, okay, well.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
What's true. I don't know yet, we don't know.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
We're gonna find out, I mean, obviously through this court,
but I just thought, you know, it was really interesting
to remind viewers of like her body had been moved
and redressed after she decomposed.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
Yeah, which is crazy, and that's a really interesting I
did not know that there was now not backlash, but
knew chatter about the bleaching of the bones because I
remember clearly right.

Speaker 8 (51:38):
And also as.

Speaker 5 (51:40):
A reminder and why I rolled my eyes about this
guy getting bail or getting off, is that Suzanne Morphew,
his wife, in her autopsy, it was revealed that it's
called bam bam chemicals were found in her bone marrow.
So it's a combination of tranquilizers that are used on deer. Okay,

(52:06):
Barry Morphew up for her crime, and her husband at
the time is an avid hunter, and they allege that
he used this tranquilizer to incapacitate and ultimately kill Suzanne.
And this tranquilizer is incredibly rare, and I believe Barry
might have been one of the only people, if not
the only person in.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
The state that you have, right, it's a license for it,
and he's one of the one of the only ones
in like the southwestern area of Colorado to have access
to it.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
So just let that sink in.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
You have to actually apply and actually get a license,
which anybody who's done that knows no easy task. That's
a real thing, but it is a real trace back
to him specifically, and that's hard to get around. And
by the way, they have two children together now, adults
who love him and have stood by him most of

(53:02):
their lives, even having lost their mother in such tragedy.
And the idea that he may have been at the
hand of not only her murder, but to be redressing
her body and replacing her into the place that she
would be found on Mother's Day is it's really it's

(53:23):
impossible to imagine it is.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
I'm gonna the very last thing I will say about this,
and then we're going to continue as the case itself continues.
But during this court appearance about the bond, Suzanne Morphy's brother,
David Mormon, he submitted a really powerful victim's impact statement
and he said, quote, he has a flight risk and

(53:46):
serial psycho psychopathic controller all in the realm of his influence,
and also that Barry Morphew is a soulless, sadistic, a
moral predator.

Speaker 8 (53:59):
The redemption here.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Wow, so you really, you really cut it.

Speaker 8 (54:03):
He hammered that home.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
If you have anything to say about the Morphew case,
or if you want to get on the line and
start preparing your questions for Body about the upcoming don't
f with kats Unpack.

Speaker 8 (54:16):
Give us a call.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
We are here on True crime tonight and Body, you
as well had a pretty big update.

Speaker 8 (54:22):
I believe in Donna Edelson.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
The matriarchre murderer. Right, So Donald, should we give a brief.
There's a lot of players in this case, Okay, so.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
A ton of players, and you do a very good
job at writing it out.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
So Donna Adelson, she is the mother in law of
Dan Markle, and he Dan Markle is he was I'm sorry,
he's the victim. He was a Harvard educated law professor
at Florida State University. He was fatally shot in his
Tallahassee garage in twenty fourteen. Prosecutors are alleging that his

(54:59):
ex wife's mother, okay, his ex wife's mother, Donna Adelson,
masterminded this killing to resolve this contentious custody dispute and
relocate her grandchildren to South Florida, where she lived. Because
he lived up in Tallahassee and wouldn't let his ex wife,
Wendy take the kids down south.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
She told the judge she had.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
A new job down there, new opportunities and whatnot, and
the judge said, no, you can't take the kids, and
all of a sudden, Dan ends up dead.

Speaker 5 (55:32):
Okay, and Dan mark hell just because I was actually
corrected by a friend who knew the victim.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
Yeah, so she is again. She's the former mother in law.
She's charged with first degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation in
the murder for higher plot and basically what happened. She
has a son named Charlie and he's a dentist and
he's been convicted in the murder already. And his girlfriend,

(56:00):
who was affiliated with the Latin Kings at one point,
she's been convicted already. And then the two hitmen they hired,
they've been convicted already. So four people are already kind
of you know, languishing in prison or this murder. All right,
And what's really interesting about this case is they the
FBI did this what's called a bump. I love this technique,

(56:23):
so I want to I want to bring it up again.
That's okay, So they kind of after after the first
two people that got arrested were the gang members, the hitmen. Okay,
after they got arrested, they all went quiet, all right,
And the FBI and the police knew that there were
others involved because somebody had to hire these hitmen, right,

(56:44):
somebody had to and they knew it was, you know,
the Adelson family. Well, they had suspicions, so but they
went quiet. So what they did was they kind of
did this what's called a bump. They basically spooped them
into speaking. So what they did was they a pro
Donna who's on trial right now, the grandmother, Granny, Granny
Mury killer Granny. They approached her and they handed her

(57:07):
a flyer and the flyer had the victim's face on it,
a picture and a phone number and five thousand dollars
and that's all they that's all. They just handed the
flyer and left. Well, that spooked Donna like, oh my god, somebody,
somebody that's not law enforcement knows I'm involved.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I start making phone calls. And that's what she did.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Okay, they started they all started panicking and making phone
calls to one another and having secret dinners and secret
conversations and using cold words and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
I feel like.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
The FBI's bomb is their term for, you know, stirring
the pot.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
It's a perfect explanation. So the trial started, we're now
the defense. We we've covered this case up until the
defense started. So the defense started their case this week, okay,
and I kind of wanted to go over what's going
on in the defense situation. So it's only been a
couple of days and they're done already. So the defense

(58:04):
rested today and they didn't really put on much of
a case. I'm gonna tell you right now, and I
shared with you this goofy lawyer of hers already.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Oh, in that my suit, in that suit.

Speaker 5 (58:17):
Yeah, I am not one to criticize what anyone wears.
You should see what's doing on this end of the microphone. However,
I am not in court and I am not wearing
a suit nineteen sizes too large.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
It was crazy.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
She looks like a little child that put on daddy's suit, right,
Like you know how your kids put on your your
clothes and they're like kind of walking around in shoes
that are too big and the sleeves are kind of
this is what her lawyer looks like.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
I it's insane. AnyWho, I digress. It's not important. It's
just kind of gossiping, isn't it.

Speaker 14 (58:49):
So?

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Anyway, So day seven, which was Tuesday yesterday, all right,
the defense began presenting presenting is that a word?

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Presenting its case with a.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Key testimony from witnesses, okay, and who described you know,
Donna as distraught and not hateful after his murder. So
they're saying, you know, after she was notified about her
son in law's murder, she was really distraught about it. Okay,
she acted like surprise, she acted upset about it.

Speaker 5 (59:18):
You know.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Again, this is the defense, and you know, so it's
kind of like goes to her character, right.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
But also she could also have committed a crime and
still felt remorseful and scared and missing him. Like I
feel like sometimes both of those things can.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Be true at the same time. I do too.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
I'm sure I do too, or maybe like, oh my god,
I can't believe they did it, or you know, I can't.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Believe we pulled it off. You know, it could be
that kind of thing.

Speaker 8 (59:43):
You have to imagine.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Yeah, the real interesting thing that happened was what was
Donna going to testify? Right, everybody always wonders if the
defendant is going to speak on their own behalf right. Well,
she mean, there was kind of like this big production
about her. She was like, I have a cided yet,
or you know, let me, I need an extension to
consider it, right, you know, I'm paraphrasing, and you know,

(01:00:07):
so the judge was like, okay, So there was kind
of like a little in extension. Well today, after the extension,
she declined to testify. So a close friend of Donna's
testified that in her November twenty twenty three flight to Vietnam, Remember,
Donna was arrested flying to Vietnam because they don't extradite
to the United States of America.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
With her husband, so they weren't trying to allegedly allegedly
aggedly get the heck out a dodge by going to
a place that will not send them back to the
US to face charges. And they were like, I think
he was actually brought into custody as well. Husbands, Yeah,
I think my brain either way, the two of them
were deplaned and Granny got arrested, right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
So a close friend of Granny, Donna testified that, you know,
this flight was just intended as a vacation and not.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
An attempt to flee pross secution.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Another defense witness, they disputed the credibility of these jailhouse
informants that saying that Donna confessed to them in the
murder and attempt to buy false testimony. So basically the
jailhouse informants are not credible. We shouldn't believe them. So tomorrow,
you guys, today the defense rest the jury will be

(01:01:21):
sent home for the day. They've already gone home and
closings are going to be tomorrow, and I cannot wait.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
To start watching them. I'm may im forward to it
like it's going to be really good. We'll take you
informed on that for sure.

Speaker 8 (01:01:34):
Yes, I cannot wait.

Speaker 5 (01:01:35):
But what I also cannot wait for is after the
commercial break it is true crime and chill, and we
of course are discussing the iconic do not f with
Kats with Body and move in, keep it here and
don't forget to call eight eight eight three to one.

Speaker 8 (01:01:51):
Crime True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and I Heeart Radio.
We've been talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie
Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and listen.
We're trying to switch up some gears here, heavy night,
a lot of Epstein talk. We're trying to make it
a little bit more, a little less, I should say heavy.
So body move in and her experience on don'n F

(01:02:25):
with Kats is coming up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
But first we have a caller, Edward. Thank you for calling.
We're so happy to have you. What's your question.

Speaker 7 (01:02:34):
I am so glad to get through. Oh, I just
have I have some comments.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
All right, bring it first.

Speaker 7 (01:02:43):
First, I want to thank the Lord for having yourself, Stephanie,
and and Courtney and Barny and all of the people
that all the people that few with the cases, they
are all great. You keep it down to earth so

(01:03:07):
that people can understand. And if you don't have the information,
you investigate it. You don't just throw something out there
that may not be the truth. You tell the truth.
And I also want to I also want to apologize

(01:03:29):
to the Lord for what I'm about to say. This
is on the Epstein case, with whether it was murder
or suicide. I just want to apologize to the Lord
for saying what I'm going to say. I hope that
it was murdered because that means that some of the

(01:03:52):
inmates in jail with him actually had morals. You don't.
It's pot children, that's right, it's right, Edward.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
You should not exploit children.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
I think the Lord would forgive you. Thank you so
much for the call, Edward, I really do. What a
nice man.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
What a nice man, you know, coming from the side
of the victim. The children's the children who are victims.
So yes, I thank you, Edward.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
It was nervous all but when you said I'm going
to apologize, so I got a little nervous. I thought,
my you know, he was going to say something inappropriate.
But he was so kind.

Speaker 8 (01:04:29):
My finger on the dump button, did you know?

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
He was so kind? No, he was the sweetest. And
thank you for the beautiful call.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
And I think Edward is symbolic of a lot, like
so many people are feeling the same way. It's like
everyone's just trying to find their compass and you know,
speak from their hearts and follow the truth. And I
like to believe that what happens in the dark eventually
comes out in the light, and there's far more light

(01:04:57):
we know this than dark.

Speaker 5 (01:04:59):
Well, I mean, I think what Edward also is speaking
to is that it's hard. It is a it is
a struggle, and whether it's with the Lord or whomever
you look to, including within yourself. Of you know, it's
a conflicting feeling. If you wish poorly on someone. I mean,
we've had conversation of if Brian Coberger right, but that

(01:05:24):
comes from a place of this man is a convicted
killer of stabbing to death for innocent people. But you know,
it's conflicting. When should your food anyway, Edward, you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Spoke a lot of men too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
We've gotten outreach and it's just so comforting. It just
makes everybody realize that there is so much good in
this world the end period like.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Exclamation points, exclamation point.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
We talk about true crime because we want to unpack,
we want to understand, we're curious, we want to stay
say if it's important that we we bring this stuff
out right, But more importantly, I think it's worth noting.
I know that there is so much beautiful greatness in
this world and light and we are all sort of
trying to find our own path and given us light

(01:06:16):
right there.

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):
So cheer together and listen, body, my buddy, oh buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Body, I was hoping we were going to stretch us
out on you.

Speaker 8 (01:06:27):
I know you asked.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
Edward to call and say those beautiful things to try.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Yes, but listen.

Speaker 8 (01:06:37):
Is body, My body's yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
All right, let's start this out. Yeah, how did how
did you get on? How did you be calmed? I
won't even say get on? How did you become Don't
Have with Cats the documentary? Did Network Netflix just give
you a call?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
No, that's not how it works. You gways know that's
not how work.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
So I got I got, I got an email from
a guy named Billy Jensen. And Billy Jensen he I think.
I don't know if he still is writing in true
but he's basically a true crime author. And he was
writing for Rolling Stone and he said, hey, I heard
about you know, your story.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
I think it's really interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
And this was in I think twenty thirteen, and I
think it's really interesting and I think it would make
a really interesting Rolling Stone story.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
And I was like, okay, whatever. So but then I
looked into.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Billy Jensen and I was like, oh, he's legit, right,
So I replied to him and I'm like, okay, you know, we'll.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Talk to you. So basically.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
We did this really long interview in rolling Stone magazine
and come to find out, after it came out, it
was one of the most read articles on the Rolling
Stone website and they got a lot of feedback on it.

Speaker 8 (01:07:55):
So that's a big deal.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
By the way, I love I mean, Stephanie said cool stuff,
which it is, and there I love.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Yeah, No, it is really that's the perfect word.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
And they have an ability to make pop culture real
time and also have some sort of overlay or delay
in it, so that totally tracks.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
So after they got the analytics you know on because
it was it was on their website and so after
they got the analytics, they were like, oh, this might
be something that you know, uh we could you know,
people might be interested in watching. So uh they shopped
it at south By Southwest, that film festival thing and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
And I don't exactly know who like did this, like.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
Who Robert Redford perhaps, Pedro Pascal.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Show and Pago's on the Phonetix on it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
And so I think what I think it was Netflix
and a production company had the best proposal, you know,
and this production company was Raw TV out of London,
and so they approached us and I was like, yeah, whatever, sure, okay,
and they were like, let us just come meet with you.
Let us just come meet with you and talk to

(01:09:27):
you about, you know, our idea. And I was like, okay,
you know, I'm thinking I'm never going to hear from
these people again. Well, next thing, I know. You know
Mark Lewis, who is the director of Donut Foo Cats.
He won an Emmy for her Donut with Cats and Felicity.
She was the producer on the show she directed. She
moved on, she got promoted. Basically, she directed Tinder Swindler

(01:09:49):
and you know, she's become her own amazing success. Flew
to Las Vegas from London and they knocked on my
door and I was so impressed because they had this.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
They had this.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
Huge binders, binders like you know those big binders that
you see in like banker's offices. Yeah, like six inches
and they had binders and it was all of our
investigative work. And they sat down at my kitchen table
for about six hours and went over the premise of
the show. And they were like, because John Green and

(01:10:21):
I were really hesitant to do it because we didn't
want to, you know, glorify Luca, right, Yes, that was
the last thing we wanted to do and because you know,
part of Luca's mo and you know, motive for all
this was to pfame, Okay, and that's really evident, I
hope in the documentary. So they had these The premise

(01:10:43):
of the show was it was going to be our story,
not his, right, it was going to be our story.
And what you know what transpired and we we find
we agreed because we were really impressed with the research.
I mean, they had binders and binders of the things
that we had done and I was like, oh my god,
I forgot all about this, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Like, can I jump into documentary? Yeah, vibes, they're very good.
So the names just names London included, like those are
really like reputable, extraordinary filmmakers and you're in good company,
no good but the way I don't personally know them,
but I know my reputation them and I know their work,

(01:11:23):
right yours included? So big deal, Yeah, big massive deal.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
And you know I uh So we had one limitation
or one clause, and that was that Luca wouldn't be
in it. Luca was not going to be contacted about it.
He wasn't going to be in it. Well, we had two.
I'm sorry we had two One was that Luca wouldn't
be in it, and and the second one was that
Junlin would be represented.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Julin was the victim.

Speaker 4 (01:11:50):
He was the in the man that Luca mc not
a murdered, and they were like done, no problem. Now
it's it's one thing for like the victim. We wanted
somebody that knew the victim, that was close to the
victim to tell his story, not us.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
We didn't know him.

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
It would be really disingenuous for us to be like, oh,
he was so wonderful, and I mean, by all appearances
he appeared to be the most gracious man, just an
angel on earth. But it would be it would be more,
you know, genuine, to be coming from somebody that cared
about and loved him.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
And knew him.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Of course knew him.

Speaker 5 (01:12:29):
So body, I'm gonna pause you real quick because I
actually I want to back up for one hot second
and listen. If any of you want to join our conversation,
give us a call it true crime tonight. We are
talking about the documentary Don't f With Kats won an
Emmy on Netflix. Of course, the center pillar is our

(01:12:51):
co host.

Speaker 8 (01:12:52):
Body move in.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
I want Glenn to call back more Glenn.

Speaker 5 (01:12:56):
No, anyone who's listening if your name's Glenn or not?
Eight A A three one crime. So body you're talking
about Luca mcnatta, you talk about jen Lyn For anyone
who has not participated in true crime and chill and
hasn't seen Donough with cats? Are you able to give

(01:13:17):
a real top synopsis of what the crime is?

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
Yeah, So a man was or a person we didn't
know if it was a man or a woman was
posting videos of themselves killing kittens and cats. In twenty
ten and twenty eleven, there were several series of videos
that were released and a group of people got together

(01:13:44):
to try and find out who this person was and
contact the authorities and get them, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
Arrested, talked to help whatever. Well, they moved on.

Speaker 4 (01:13:57):
Despite our warnings to police that this person was threatening
to kill people. They did move on to kill somebody.
And his name was jen Lyin in May of twenty twelve,
and he dismembered Juenlin. He cannibalized Jenlin, He sodomized Jenlin
and sent body parts to political parties in Canada. Basically

(01:14:20):
the Prime Minister of Canada and schools in Vancouver and
then fled to Europe and was captured in Berlin in
June of twenty twelve. He was tried and convicted and
he's currently in prison in Montreal, in Quebec, I should say,
not Montreal. That's basically the synopsis. And because we were
the ones that were trying to thank you, that was

(01:14:41):
just top of head.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
To encapsulate a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
And by the way, I have to assume you guys
have watched, but if you haven't, you're really missing out.
And I say this like so from the bottom of
my heart. I think I've said this before our show
and many other places. Body I watched at the beginning
of COVID at the time Courtney and I.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
Making True Time. Yet we were.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Making true crime documentaries and had just started making podcasts,
and true crime was really becoming a piece of my
personal DNA and certainly as a company.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
And I just happened to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
This off the cuff, and I'm gonna be honest with you,
it felt as though Body movin our very own was
legit speaking to me directly.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
That's how I experienced it. I really did.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
So No, I say that simply to say, and we're
not easy audiences.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
By the way, we make true crime docs, we watch
all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
I feel like there's so many extraordinary people in the business,
in some of whom we're talking about right now. But
it was one of those that as you, specifically as
a human, I think really like spoke to my heart,
and I do think some decisions that were made as
a company and as a person in moving forward were

(01:16:02):
because of.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
Your influence in my heart.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
So I say that really just to sort of encourage
everybody to please go watch if you have it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
Yeah, I don't get any money if you watch, So
we're not definitely not pushing anywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Everything like that. There's no.

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
Getting Kenny's for everyone, so generally ethically, and by the way,
smarty Pants over here, she's always like I don't know
that or whatever. Smarty Pants is like looking in the
background or the picture and identifying the one weird vacuum
that's doing this, this and this, Like she is. She
is the real deal, and that can never be brought
into question. And you watch that doc and.

Speaker 3 (01:16:41):
You're reminded that you're guesting your stud.

Speaker 4 (01:16:44):
He was, you know, Luca was making videos of himself
killing cats, and he was hiding his identity, and we
were trying to find out who he was. And where
do you start? You start with the objects in the room, right,
what identifiable objects that we can we see in this video.
By the way, this was twenty ten. There was no
reverse Google image search. There was right, you know, there
was none of this.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
This DNA, there was the dark stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Yeah, we're not doing visual identifications like we get to
do now, right.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
We're looking at like plug like walls, you know, outlets,
We're looking at bedsizes, we're looking at We're looking for
a phone book in the room. We're looking for things
like that. So that's where it kind of starts.

Speaker 5 (01:17:25):
Well, I'm looking for answers and I'm looking for stuff
that did not end up in the dock. I want
the box to behind the scene.

Speaker 8 (01:17:33):
What's up.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
And listen, we're in our last stretch. How is that possible?
Somehow I feel like we never really even scratch the surface.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
I need to do it. I feel like we start
and then it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Four hours, yes, forty eight hours straight right through crime tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
That is the goal.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
By the way, Boddy, you're doing such a great job
setting up you right, which is a hard thing to do.
First of all, not only did Body play such an
important role in such a prolific case, that's where we
met her. She was on a documentary on Netflix. It
was Emmy Award winning I'm my Dad. I watched it
real time. It changed my world. The benefit to not

(01:18:23):
only have you in my daily life, but to really
consider you a friend, colleague, all the things we get
to play every.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Night, and by the way, we met on TV.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
So it just shows the world is small and big
all at the same time. So again, many years, how
much could happen, But getting to do a deep dive
with you was major?

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Where were we?

Speaker 12 (01:18:44):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
I guess, I guess talk the phones are a buzzy, nervous,
I'm nervous. What is it?

Speaker 8 (01:18:51):
Hi? Guys?

Speaker 14 (01:18:52):
I love your show and I love all that you
three do. I have a specific question for Body pertaining
to Don't f with Cats. If you could go back
Body and speak to your younger self before you ever
clicked on the video link of that first video, would
you do things differently?

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
What would you tell yourself? And would you have clicked
on the video at all?

Speaker 7 (01:19:12):
Thank you for getting good.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
That's a great question, you know my question?

Speaker 4 (01:19:18):
Oh what what would I do different when I clicked, Yes,
I would click the video. This experience changed my life,
sometimes bad and sometimes good. Of course I would have
done anything to save Julin. That would be number one.
So if I would have do something differently, it would

(01:19:39):
be to scream louder about this and to you know,
the cops weren't taking our information very seriously. And you know, again,
this was twenty ten, and they were kind of like
we had done a lot of things like trap his
IP address and stuff like that, and they were like
IP address, They didn't even know what we were talking about,
you know what I mean, Like they have no idea.

(01:20:00):
And I think I would have maybe screamed louder to
save Jenlin.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Does that make sense.

Speaker 4 (01:20:06):
I would have done that, by the way, that's the
spirit of this whole show. Yeah, scream louder. I would
scream louder. And would I have clicked on it again? Yes,
because you know it did change my life in good
and bad and the ways that are bad.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
It's made me more withdrawn. I don't really trust people
a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:20:23):
I spend probably ninety eight percent of my time alone.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
People's people.

Speaker 4 (01:20:32):
When the documentary came out, Yeah, I got like super
famous for a brief minute, right, and everybody wanted to
be my friend. And then at the same time everybody
left me too because my mother had gotten very sick
and it was a massive burden, and so I just
didn't really trust anybody. And it's kind of like remained,
you know what I mean, Like it's kind of held over,

(01:20:52):
and I don't like that about myself, but it has
given me so many opportunities like this, like the show.
I never would have gotten this opportunity had it not
been for don't have with cats right, never have gotten
this opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
We wouldn't have met each other, right, crime con and
we would not have met each other.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
And by the way, how proud is your mom of you?
So proud? I hope your mom so from the heavens above.

Speaker 5 (01:21:17):
When body, you know, I see you getting emotional, which
I mean what you described would make anyone very emotional.
I think also it was you know too, as you said,
you know, lose your close friends and then be left
with sort of sycophants for lack of bettering. Yeah yeah,
And then but it was also COVID when all of
this everyone isolated anyway, and then everything you just said

(01:21:41):
on top of that must have been really a heavy load.

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
It was, and like we would my friend Jody and
I we would go to like hockey games. Let's you know,
I'm a big hockey fan, and like people would like
come up. I would be surrounded by people. They were
like trying to touch my hair and things. It was
so weird, and so I had this weird juxtaposition. Anyway, Yes,
I clicked on it again, but I would scream outer.
I would do have I would have done anything to

(01:22:06):
save Jenlin anything. Thank you for to talk.

Speaker 5 (01:22:10):
Back taha you look itch And to ask a question.

Speaker 15 (01:22:13):
To well, it's a quick one, but well, first of all,
I have to say I'm in agreement with agreement with
Stephanie and Courtney about the documentary is phenomenal. Everything about it.
It's just the way it's laid out, and you're so genuine.
So it just drew me in and I fell in
love with it and fell in love with you before.

Speaker 13 (01:22:34):
Actually meeting you and starting with the pleasure of working
with you. I know, right, I love you.

Speaker 15 (01:22:40):
But I should lead with it's a little bit of
a spoiler for people who haven't seen it, so you know,
get ready, but it's not yours.

Speaker 13 (01:22:49):
It's not a major spoiler.

Speaker 15 (01:22:51):
But when I was watching the documentary and there was
a scene where you saw some of the video footage
that he was he had posts it online. At one
point I thought I was like an internet sleuth because
I thought, do I see a second set of hands?

Speaker 7 (01:23:06):
There?

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
Second set of hands? Yeah?

Speaker 13 (01:23:07):
And I saw a second set.

Speaker 15 (01:23:08):
Of hands, And then I thought it was brilliant, and
I was bragging about it to another friend.

Speaker 13 (01:23:12):
I caught something now and I was caught, and they
all said, we all saw that, So calm down. But
the show never touches on that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
It never does it kind of it kind of leaves
you hanging, doesn't.

Speaker 13 (01:23:21):
It tell me about So why you think they left
it out?

Speaker 4 (01:23:24):
That was a nine minute video that was filmed weeks
after the Python video that you're talking about. It was
a separate video that the documentary doesn't do a good
job of explaining that. I think it's pretty intentional. But
it was filmed weeks and weeks later, and it was
a neighbor. It was totally innocent. The neighbor actually was

(01:23:44):
at the trial and spoke about it, and it was
completely innocent.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
It had nothing to do with anything.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
It just for anyone who hasn't watched TAHA to your point,
Oh hot, that was like a brilliant question for us,
number one question, a question that we've all been like harboring.
But also just so you know, Body is an avid
animal enthusiast. It's so by the way, all of us

(01:24:12):
are so welcome. We all love an animal. And you know,
this is a crime that started happening online, and Body,
as an animal enthusiast, was smart enough and in tune
enough to know that someone who commits crimes like this,
murdering cats online for like public display.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Is likely going to escalate to human kills.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
That is and by the way, that is a predetermined thing,
like they will say amongst serial killers specifically, one of
the you know air quotes red flags of which there
are many, but one that's fairly universal has been spoken
about a lot is you know, abuse to animals, killing animals,
let alone kittens, little kitty cat that are so cute

(01:25:01):
and innocent, and you know it's really the disturbing stuff.
So this activates Body, right, and John, I don't like bullies.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
I don't like you.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
I don't like bullies, I don't like people who hurt animals,
elderly people or children, those are my you know what
I mean, Like no, no, no, in no particular order,
by the way I mean, like you know, I'm not
saying animals are above children.

Speaker 13 (01:25:24):
Don't.

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
Please, don't take that the wrong way.

Speaker 4 (01:25:26):
But yeah, So do you guys want to hear some
things that maybe didn't?

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:25:31):
I want to.

Speaker 13 (01:25:32):
I'm dying to please please.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:25:34):
So I don't know how familiar are Hopefully you're not
very familiar. Hopefully you didn't watch it. But the video,
so Luca McNatt have filmed all of his crimes, well
the ones that we know about, right, and you know,
he well he would start out with like the kittens
on the bed, okay, and he would love on them.

(01:25:55):
He would pet them, and he would you know, when
I first saw the video, I thought, oh, this is
a cute cat video, right, because he's like petting them
and loving on them. Well, he does the same thing
with jun Lin. Okay. He kind of strokes his head
and he's then he gets and he straddles him and
he's like kind of petting him, okay, And then of

(01:26:16):
course he reaches down and he grabs a circular saw
and Okay, however, the man in the bed is not Schumlin.
What what the man in the bed is not Chumlin.
There's a it's another man. And what we believe is

(01:26:37):
that it was his practice run to see if those
the drugs worked, to see what.

Speaker 13 (01:26:45):
Did talk to that other?

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
Yes, the police did, the police did, but that it
didn't make the documentary. And we had discovered this because we,
of course analyzed the murder video. We had it days
before the police did.

Speaker 3 (01:26:57):
Right.

Speaker 8 (01:26:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Oh, and by the way, this is a thing. He
didn't kill dress man. He just drugged him to see
if you know what he could get away with.

Speaker 5 (01:27:07):
Man enough, yo, I mean that's I mean, yes, thank
god he stopped.

Speaker 8 (01:27:11):
But that in and of itself is a crime. Holy cow. Okay,
what else do you got?

Speaker 12 (01:27:15):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
I'm Another question I get asked a lot is how
did he know where I work?

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
How did how?

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
Because in the documentary we find out that Luca has
found out who I am and starts kind of threatening
and targeting me, and he sends a video of a place,
a casino that I used to work at. And at
this point I had to go, you know, and tell
my boss about it because I was worried that he
was going to show up at where I work. Okay, Well,

(01:27:43):
prior to being body Moven, I was Deanna Thompson and
I was on my regular Facebook account. I never ever
tried to hide who I was to Luca ever.

Speaker 8 (01:27:52):
I was.

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
Also, this is one thing they didn't tell you about
is we were so kind to him because we knew
something was wrong right and he.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
Was he wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
He was in communication with us all the time. He
sent us his prescription bottle pills like pictures, He communicated
with us if he was lonely Christmas. I mean, we
were constantly kind to him, very kind to him, just
trying to be like, listen, you need help. We know
you're lonely, we know you're going through it, you know.
But so that's something that they left out too, that
we were kind to him. We were trying just to

(01:28:24):
All we wanted was for the police to knock on
his door and make sure he was okay, like and
to get him to stop killing cats, like you know
what I mean, Like, get him to stop because this history,
he was prolific. He had thousands and thousands and thousands
of accounts and all of them were troll accounts doing
something to piss people off. He started with the Family Guy.

(01:28:47):
I don't know if you guys know the show Family Guy.
He was trying to get a rise out of people
and trying to get Family Guy banned. And you know,
like he had thousands of accounts to do this. He
spent all day every day. If I had a bot,
like a bot farm, I still wouldn't be able to
create the amount accounts that this guy had thousands of

(01:29:09):
them to hype himself up. You know, Luca Mgnada is
the Prince of Canada. He put himself in a relationship
with Carla Boca right like he was wanted to be.

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
He wanted to be.

Speaker 4 (01:29:24):
He wanted to be infamous, He wanted to be infased.
He often said he was a killer before he even
was one. He wanted to be infamous. Another thing that
that they left out was Luca had an mo o.
He would always pre hype his projects with both the
kitten video, with all the series of the Kitten videos,

(01:29:45):
we after it happened, we would find him pre uh
what is it called promoting pre promoting it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
So when when.

Speaker 4 (01:29:55):
Jun Lyin was murdered, we were like, there's got to
be something out there, and of course there was. So
in January of twenty eleven, I'm sorry. Prior to May
of twenty twelve, he had posted on blog spot of
a photo of himself in a purple hoodie with an
ice pick with the Casablanca photo behind him, and the

(01:30:18):
blog spot was called the One Lunatic One ice Pick,
and he was like, has anybody seen this video? Now,
this was prior to him murdering John Lin. He was
pre promoting it, and then he was creating messages on
message messaging boards going, there's this video floating around going
called what one Lunatic one ice pic? Because anybody's seen it?
I'm dying to find it. Two months later he created

(01:30:39):
the actual video. And he did this with every single
cat video and Jounlin.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
So he was almost doing like a tease like a
TDTS like before like coming up next yes, or right
next season on like we see on television. He was
promoting what would be a kill.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
Yep, And he did it every single time, and he
had this like super like pop culture thing going yeah
as well. Right, he was.

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):
Obsessed with James Dean, he was obsessed with Madonna Hea,
he was obsessed with Sharon Stone.

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
He was obsessed with basic instinct.

Speaker 7 (01:31:13):
And b.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
That mom was I don't want to listen. I have
no animosity. Is she is, She's a mother. She's maybe
in a little bit of a denial, you know what
I mean. They don't have the best relationship they did.
You know, his grandmother raised him, not her. She's troubled herself,
and I have no animosity. She can talk as much

(01:31:37):
crap about me as she wants, and I'm not going
to be.

Speaker 13 (01:31:39):
Mad at her.

Speaker 3 (01:31:40):
You know, crap about you she did? Yeah, oh I
know that. I just thought she was.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Compelling as an image of voice perspective in shock.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
And when you watch it you'll know what I mean.
I think we have a talk back.

Speaker 12 (01:31:57):
Yep, Hey, ladies. Sismis just for body body. I watched
the documentary Don't f with Cats and thought you.

Speaker 13 (01:32:04):
Did an amazing job.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
You're to take.

Speaker 12 (01:32:07):
The skills are unbelievable, and that you tracked this guy
down halfway across the world by just analyzing small videos
that he's sent in.

Speaker 13 (01:32:20):
You did a wonderful job.

Speaker 3 (01:32:21):
And I just wanted to let you know that, Oh,
thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Is the point of this body And I just think
that speaks to everyone listening right now, everyone listening. It's
the small stuff. It's being ethical and curious and kind
and smart. You are one of a kind. Body move in.
Thank you truly like no other. Again, if you haven't
watched before, don't. With Cats on Netflix, not only are

(01:32:47):
you the star, but.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
You are your force. Yeah, you are a detective.

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
Can we talk about what's coming up next? Yes, listen,
everybody needs to watch Unknown Number the High School Catfish
on net Flix. Your head is going to explode. That's
going to be our next true crime. And Chill, I
am dying to talk about it, dying.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Next true crime and Chill, you heard it here. This
is true crime tonight. We're talking true crime.

Speaker 3 (01:33:10):
All the time. We will speak to you tomorrow. Good night,
good night,