Forensic Deep Dive: A Potential Kohberger Leak and a Possible Oregon Serial Killer

“Body Bags” podcast host and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins to break down a strange new video of Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger. Also, a deep dive into a potential serial killer in Oregon and explore what forensics can teach us about serial offenders. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Happy weekend, everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's coming to a close Sunday, August seventeenth, and we
have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, and
I'm here, of course with my favorite crime analyst.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Body Moven.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Courtney Armstrong's Away Tonight. So Joseph Scott Morgan, our forensics
expert and host of Bodybags the podcast joins us because look,
it's scientific Sunday, everybody, and man, do we have a
lot to explore. There's some basic, real new developments in
this again Brian Coberger, Idaho student murderer's case. Some video

(00:59):
has been eventually leaked from him behind bars or of
him behind bars. Also there's that case in mon talk
about the fashion designer who was found dead on a boat.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
We're going to unpack that.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Joseph has some inside scoop also on the forensic's there
to explore and this case in Oregon the serial killer potential.
Joseph has been talking about this for a while now
it's all tracking. He is here to really fill us
in and unpack the details to what could be really
a serial killer in Oregon. He's been potentially charged with

(01:35):
four murders. This gentleman has claimed his innocence and Joseph's
about to jump in. So welcome Joseph Scott Morgan.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
Hey, thanks for having my favorite night of the week
as many.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah? Absolutely, I'll look forward to Sunday night hanging out
with my friends.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
A chill Sunday.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Rights, a chill Sunday. So it's just say, just to
reframe it, this is a conversation. We are all gathered
around just to unpack some of the new developments that
came out over the weekend. If you want to jump
in and join the conversation, please do eight eight eight
three one Crime. You can leave us a talk back.
Just download the iHeartRadio app. It's free, push the top

(02:12):
right hand button, leave us a little message.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
And you are on the show.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Or you could always hit us up on our socials
at True Crime Tonight Show on Instagram and TikTok, or
also on Facebook at True Crime Tonight. So listen, there's
no excuse, So if you have something to say, and
we hope you do, please join us. Yeah. So, I
don't know if you guys have seen it, but there
is this video circulating of Brian Coberger, the killer in

(02:39):
the Idaho student murders. You know, if you've been following along,
he recently confessed to the murder of Xana Carnodle, Madison Mogan,
and Ethan Shapin and of course Kaylee Gonzalvez. He's behind
bars serving four life sentences and listen, he's just not
really enjoying prison life, even though he's in this macimum

(03:00):
security prison.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
It's been tough. Listen.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
He's by himself a lot twenty three hours and apparently
the inmates are making him crazy and they're you know,
they're kind of shouting and talking to him through the
bars and all of the tunnels in there so that
he can't sleep. So he's tired, and now there's been
this potential leak, some could say even a breach of

(03:24):
you know, prison conduct, but basically it's him behind bars
or in some portion of the facility, and you know,
he's just being weird.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Looking weird.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
You see him kind of his hands are all red
stained and looks like he's kind of cleaning a shoe
or something.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
And there's two sides, So what the chatter is.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
One, how weird wires, hands so red. I think that's
probably from his hand washing habit. Two, you know, technically
this should not be leaked out to the public because
there are you know, violations in their security within these prisons,
so video isn't leaked. And then also, you know, some
are saying it's potentially AI.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
So body, what do you think. I don't think it's AI.
I don't think it's AI. And I actually never did
think it was AI. I saw it and I immediately said,
oh my god, that looks like medical hold. And the
only reason I say that is because you instead of
like there being like a cot like that that you
would expect to see in some in in a prison cell,

(04:23):
you know, like where they sleep, it's a it's a
it's a frickin' gurney, you know, and it's it doesn't
look like oh, so it is not his cell, you
don't know. I don't think so. I will sell I
don't think so. And it's worth noting too that lay
Talk County and Ada County both came out and said
it's not their jail. So if it's not Ada County

(04:45):
and it's not lay Talk County, then it has to
be the prison, right because that's the only other place
he's been. He's been in Pennsylvania, Ada County, and lay
Talk County, and I don't think it's Pennsylvania. So it
looks to me like it's before he gets it's like
where he's processing to be to be put into, you know,
the unit j where he's at now, it's where he

(05:06):
was before that, where he was processing. I think it
doesn't look like aie to me. He looks real creepy.
Can we just saw that too?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
He looks like a real creep captain obvious to the
degree and why the reds.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
There's like a little TV and like a little cage
that he's kind of looking at and he sets like
a tissue on a little shelf and then he's just
kind of watching TV and he's looking at his hands,
you know, and they're they are they are kind of red,
but it's hard. It's hard to see it, you know,
how red they really are. But you know, apparently he's
got like a hand washing addiction of some kind, and

(05:43):
so you know, if if, if that's true, it's possible
that you know, he's just washing his hands a lot. Joseph,
what do you make of that? Because I don't know
how to tell.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
The difference, to be honest, between an aid first artificial
and tell really the artificial the trap relations who don't know.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, there was something about there was something about the
video to me that you know, sometimes with AI, and
again I'm not a computer scientist or you know, people
that produce these types of things, but with AI at
the stage that it's at right now, sometimes you can
look at it it almost looks like a cutout that's
been inserted. That's my eye, the untrained eye. This did

(06:22):
not have that appearance to me. It actually appeared to
be real to me. And you know, body, I was
asking you, you know, real or memory X man, I
don't know. I saw it and I was thinking, is
this the real thing? And I kind of feel like
that it is. This goes to a bigger issue though
for me, and it goes back to the scene. I

(06:44):
have this fhere, this abiding fear that there are going
to be AI things that are going to come out
that will pretend to be images from the scene, or
if this is a leak, which we've already talked about
multiple leaks along the way this case, our image is
going to be leaked from that scene that the police
don't have control over. Will will money play into this?

(07:08):
Money always plays into it relative to people that are
tempted with cash from some media outlet or some other
means nowadays where they can make revenue off of it.
I'm terrified that this is going to happen, and this
is just like a small taste of it.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
And that's like the I guess the assertion that's being
talked about online right is that potentially somebody within the
prison took money in exchanged for getting some inside video
because this case has become so you know, infamous there,
I say, which is exactly what he wants. By the way,
that's an interesting point about it not being his prison cell,
because it's being noted as his cell online. And I

(07:48):
thought it looked a little nice too.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
With me.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
I kind of felt like I know a lot of
people who live in far smaller dwellings in New York
City and don't have a TV to access or shoes
to it kind of made me mad.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, I don't. I don't think it was a selling.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
I think it was. Yeah, it's a sizeable it's a
sizeable space. When you consider this, and this is supposed
to be you know, they use the term solitary. You know,
you always think about solitary when you go into these
these places and you see them, which I've had to
work cases inside of prisons, and they're very it's it's
very claustrophobic when you go in there, you know you

(08:24):
and again he's hearing voices coming through the events as well,
and I don't you know, it's not necessarily that their
voice is like he's here, he's a magic These are
the inmates, the fellow incarcerated individuals that are nipping atting
the entire time. You got to you got to consider something.
He's in with a group of people right now that

(08:45):
are well aware that he has murdered three women in
their sleep. One of the most gutless things that you
can possibly do. And let me tell you something, this population,
they might do a lot of things, they generally don't
abide that kind of behavior. So it's going to be
a rough road.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Ahead for him to that point.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's five hundred and thirty five violent men who are
in this prison for very dark circumstances. By the way,
the prison is doing an investigation and you know, has
not come out publicly in any way and says they'll
do a very thorough one at that. But again, also,
you know, people who are on death row are also housed,

(09:24):
you know, within this prison. So this is real and
this group of people exactly were really waiting waiting for
mister Coburger to arrive on the red carpet if you will, right.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, The IDoc, the Idaho Department of Corrections, is investigating
the origin of this footage. And it looks to be
like they have like they're recording that they took their
phone and they're holding it up to like the monitor. Right,
That's kind of what it looks like to me. So
they're investigating that. The prison officials reiterated that sharing security

(10:00):
footage is strictly prohibited and violators could face criminal prosecution
if you know, and termination if caught. You're listening to
True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk true crime
all the time. I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker. I'm body
moving and we are joined by the wonderful and great
forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. And right now we're just

(10:23):
kind of talking about all the stuff that's come out
with Coburg. Over the weekend. You know, this weekend, I
took a trip, Yes, I did. You took a trip?
I did. I went to Oakland and India and I
sat and we watched Joseph Scott Morgan pretty much all weekend.
He was all over, all over if you have a treat,
he was. He was all over the place. And Idaho

(10:45):
State Police dropped a bunch of documents while I was
while I was traveling, and in some of these stuffs,
we got to talk about some of these documents.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Let's break it down because there has been this very
big in Where do you want to start?

Speaker 3 (10:58):
I literally looked over at India and I was like,
I have to get these documents right now. And she
was like, it's your your onification. Just can you stop,
you know, And I'm like, no, we don't understand. I
need these documents right now. She's like, just relax. Okay,
So that is.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Relaxing because you want the information.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
I want the information.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
So I've come home to this. I literally just walked
in the door, what an hour and a half ago,
and you know, I'm trying to make sense of some
of this. So the Idaho's State Police ISP apparently there's
six hundred new documents and I or six hundred pages
of documents that Brian Inton has and he has kind

(11:37):
of gone over some of the information that are in
these documents, and some of it's crazy. You guys, did
you hear I'm just gonna drop your highlight the high
well to get right. So one of his professors observed
like some troubling behavior and basically said, I'm going to

(11:57):
quote starting now, Coburger is smart enough that in four
years we will have to give him a PhD. Mark
my word, I work with predators. If we give him
a PhD. That's the guy that in many years when
he's a professor, we will hear he is harassing, stalking,
and sexually abusing. Now this is this is somebody at

(12:20):
WSU right staggering that a criminology professor of his who
worked with Coberger at WSU. That's pretty dramatic. Months before
the murders.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Pretty dramatic. And remember he had this incident in high
school that we're aware of. Please check out the Idaho Massacre,
the podcast that we make season two, also coming out
season three. Rather my goodness, got it all goes by
so quick? But again, yeah, like he had that incident
in high school. We know, Brian Coburger and we also
know that Joseph has been following this so so closely,

(12:52):
and this all tracks this guy was a potential psychopath.
I mean, this we already knew, but it's kind of
harrowing to see that in print.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, leading up to the trial, leading up to it,
that this guy is that they recognized, they knew there
was something odd about this guy. And you know Brian
Enton said that or was it Ashley Banfield, one of
the two, said he would basically trap people in rooms,
like block them from leaving, specifically women by the way

(13:24):
block with his body them leaving rooms. It's scary.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
And listen, there's a lot of forensics to discuss. We
for starters have a lot to talk about and continue
to discuss in the Brian Coberger recent jump of information.
Also some new developments happening in Oregon. Joseph, you've been
talking about this potential serial killer in Oregon, So you're
going to unpack the forensics on that and also this

(14:00):
sterious death on a yacht in mon Talk. So that's
another one that we're going to start unpacking tonight as well.
But we also want to hear from you, so we
have a talkback coming up right here. Hey, ladies, it's
Stephanie from Pennsylvania. Listen more questions.

Speaker 6 (14:14):
That other caller was talking about BK and the dog
and the dog not sleeping with Mattie. So I was wondering,
do you think that she was taking the dog out
to go potty and that's why she wasn't in the
room because you know, dogs have to go to the
bathroom at all different times.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's a fair point, So a fair point. Bethany tells
us that around two thirty, shortly after Kaylee and Mattie
came home, that Bethany, this one of the surviving roommates
who was on the first floor, remember, took Murphy outside
with Mattie around two thirty and she said it was

(14:54):
too cold, so she came in and then she grabbed
some chips and went to her room and watched you know,
her iPad. And then a short time later Mattie came
down there and said, do you know where Murphy is?
I can't find Murphy, which is interesting. But then we
hear from Dylan that she heard around four in the
morning Kaylee going upstairs, up the stairs with Murphy, and

(15:20):
she knew it was Kaylee because Murphy. So no, we
don't think Mattie was out with the dog or Kaylee
was out with the dog. I still happened to think
that Kaylee was in her room the entire time and
walked into that room. I am one of many voices.
We can totally disagree on this. It's totally fine. I'm

(15:43):
not going to get angry that we disagree, but I
don't believe Mattie or I'm sorry, I don't believe Kaylee
was in the room initially. No, wow, great.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Question though, keep them coming that we want to keep
hearing from you. Eight eight eighty three one Crime And
before the break, you guys were discussing this new development
that one of Brian Coberger's former professors when he was
getting his PhD basically put in writing that he was
the guy that was ultimately if given a PhD degree,

(16:16):
that he'd be a predator potentially to students and to
real tell Joseph, what do you guys.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Think of this?

Speaker 4 (16:25):
I tell you what for a second, let me take
my forensic hat on, yeah, and put on my professor hat.
About to start our first week back at university this
week at jack State, and I literally have a brand
new grad assistant. I've had my previous one for two
and a half years. I know her, but I don't

(16:47):
know her okay, and it's going to take me a
while to get to know her. Is she and I
work together. The fact that this professor wrote this comment
about this individual will and they were able to assess
that much information or suss out that much information about
this subject, and he had only been there since July,

(17:10):
and they're making predictions four years into the future based
upon current behavior is mind blowing to me, because you know,
they're supervising multiple people, and this guy stands out in
the crowd. I don't know how many other doctoral candidates
they have, and they're going to have other doctoral candidates
at various stages in their candidacy, if you will, as

(17:34):
they're making it through, and this essential nobody who has
just come in. They're able to project this that far
into the future. That's kind of a bold statement to me.
I don't know that means. To me, that means that
he made an impression. And also and quick, this is
a very dark impression too.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
And quick too, right, like he was only there in July,
like you said, the murders happened in November. And it's
for these who are just joining us. This is what
the professor said. Coburger is smart enough that in four
years we will have to give him a PhD. Mark
my word, I work with predators. If we give him
a PhD. That's the guy that in many years when

(18:16):
he's a professor, we will hear he is harassing, stalking,
and sexually abusing. And that's what a WSU professor said
about Brian Koeberger months before the murder. So this in
a very short time. To Joseph's point, this professor sussed
out Brian Coberger and called him out.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
How does he get the job in the first place, though, Joseph,
you've discussed this with me for a very long time.
By the way, Joseph's a very distinguished professor himself. So
to get your PhD, it's a big deal, right, You
almost have to choose the person you're going to study
under and it's really prestigious to be able to be

(18:57):
in the seat he was, and you have to be selected.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
It's not it's no joke.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Yeah, you know, undergraduate and to to a less degree,
master's degrees. You kind of go because you you have to,
you know, whatever feel that you're in to master it.
You do PhD. And this is this is the ultimate
in learning, and it's generally a student that selects where
they want to go. Now, you hope that these people

(19:24):
will select you, but you have enough knowledge now that
you choose the person you want to literally study under
and serve. Keep that in mind too. You have to
serve these individuals while you're there because you're helping them
with research. You're learning how to be a professor and
do their research because you're doing their research for them.
All right, Just understand that they'll direct you. So the

(19:46):
fact that he got he had some talent for this
apparently or they would not have selected him. And the
fact that he got chosen for this, they're paying him.
By the way, this is a paid g oh and
by the way, you get free tuition as well. So
that's all covered. Yeah, that's all covered for you, and

(20:07):
they only select a few individuals that get these positions
because look, you're handcuffed to this person for the next
four or five years. They're going to be in your department.
You better choose well.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I wonder, I wonder how the person who wrote his
recommendation letter for this program feels from the sales.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
I've wondered about this, and generally there are multiple, multiple
recommendation letters. It's not just one. Most for most programs
you're going to need about three or four. And there's
been something that has floated about I heard again this
is hearing WSU was apparently one of the programs that

(20:48):
did not require you to have a GRE, which is
the graduate entrance program. And then there was another one,
I think in Cali that he had applied to. And
you know, I don't know. I hate it taking the GRE.
It's part of It's like getting you know, your gum scrape.
It's horrible. It's worse than the SAT. But it's one
of those things that you know, you look forward that

(21:09):
you know you're trying to lessen the pain. Here will
they buy me based upon the research that I've already
done in order to get into the doctor program? And
that's you know, he's having to sell hisself that way
as opposed to, you know, doing standardized testing.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Right, you also need a true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio,
I'm Boddy Moving and I'm here with Joseph Scott Morgan
and Stuffy Myducker and we're talking about the latest updates
in Brian Coberger. There's been a new document dump. I
haven't been able to go through them myself, but we're
kind of just talking about them right now. I was
on the little trip and I just got home, so
I haven't had a chance to like sink my teeth

(21:44):
into them, but I promise you it's coming.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
I have a few that I was curious about, apparently
on October twenty twenty one, if there was a break
in in a sorority house.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yes, I have the audio.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Potential assailant dressed in black wielding night. Yeah, that's one
I'd like to discuss, by the way, if anybody wants
to join us.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Eighty eighty three to one crime.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Also the fact that he had eighteen contacts in his phone,
eighteen and his mother that he called, she's saved in
his phone. I don't know why I thought this was
so weird mother as mother and father as opposed to
like dad or what have you.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
It was just and when he talks to like the
mourning of the murders. We know that he texted his mom.
She didn't respond, so he texted again, and when she
didn't respond, he texted his dad and he said, father,
why isn't mother answering? That's how he addresses them. It's
he's dissociated a little bit.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's so weird, you know, And he's not connecting the dots,
which is a real sign of psychopathy, right. They lack
an empathy, a lack of human connection and ability to
sort of have real human emotion essentially, which is why
you could kill without remorse or confessing.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, in these eighteen contacts too, some of them didn't
even have a name. It was just like girl I
went running with or guy with the hair like, they
didn't even have a person's name. It's just discreeted.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And remember he wanted to be a cop, so you know,
fortunately he got booted from that program because also he
was being a weirdo.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Now years later he.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Resurfaces, getting his you know, PhD in criminology act. In
all kinds of weird again. The walls were closing in
on him. He was going to lose that said scholarship
that we talked about earlier, Joseph, because this guy wasn't
fit in the bill. His teacher, his criminology professor of minutes,
is already identifying him as a potential predator. This is

(23:44):
somebody who had the signs right even just seeing that
potential video from behind bars in the facility he's in.
Now you know, him rubbing his hands together so much
that they're red already, just because he's it's there's such
a scariness to it.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
I can't write play.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, there is a scariness to it. But here's the thing,
and when when you have kids that come into your
world in academia, they're only there for a short period
of time. The idea that you're going to because my
colleagues and I talked about this frequently, and I've discussed
this at crime Con as well, where you know, with

(24:22):
not on stage, but with people you know, are you
afraid you're teaching people things that they should not know, right,
hidden knowledge? If you will, There's no way that you
can evaluate the future behavior on an individual when you're
in charge of a whole classroom of kids that are coming.
I don't remember half of their names, you know, most

(24:43):
of the time, much less unless they really act out
to the point where they're disruptive, that's most of the time,
or unless they're a stellar student that you know, is
an honors program and all these sorts of things. Yeah, yeah,
and yeah, they have to be they have to be impressive.
And it's not that I'm arrogant, it's just it's a
competitive environment, and so it's it's one of these things

(25:06):
where you're not going to queue into it. So going
when I think about back at the sales and I
think about Catherine Ramsel, you know, people have, you know,
have made some kind of bad comments about her. How
in the hell is she going to predict what he's
going to do down the road. Catherine couldn't see what's
coming on any level whatsoever. She's not superhuman. She's a

(25:30):
great professor and a great researcher, and she's cutting edge
with a lot of her stuff. But you know, she
couldn't have predicted this. Nobody could have.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
No, it's not her.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Fault at all, Joseph, You've been talking about this for
a while now, and it's tracking and we really want
to hear your deep dive into some of the forensics,

(26:00):
and hopefully we get to this, and if not, we
will tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
This mysterious death.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Of the fashion designer found dead on a yacht on
mom talk very close to where I grew up. I
used to go please dover in there, so yeah, I
know the area well, and yeah it's an area really
close to my heart.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
So we'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
If for some reason tonight gets away from us, because
you guys are just talking so much, we want those
talkbacks eight eight eight three one crime. Come on, give
us your opinions. Download the iHeartRadio app, push the button
at the top right, leave us a message in boom
you're on the show, or hit us up on our
socials at True Crime Tonight's Show, on Instagram, in TikTok,

(26:39):
or on Facebook to my mom who's listening. My stepdad
is having surgery in the morning, so let's all send
him lots of love.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
He's going to be great.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
We do want to hear from you, though, so you
can also reach us on Facebook at True Crime Tonight's show.
So back to it. We have a talkback right now.

Speaker 7 (26:57):
Hey, y'all, I was sitting here listening y'all talk about
the door dash driver, and I was really curious, what
if what Bethany thought she heard or splash she saw
was from the door dash driver taking the picture, dropping
it off. She's just drinking and stuff in time, you know,
I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Are your thoughts? Oh yeah, I mean that's the first
and foremost.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, thank you. Yes, no, And that's a reasonable that
a lot of people think that. Actually a lot of
people have said, oh, it's probably just you know, when
they leave your food at the porch, they take a picture.
If Xana had to open the door at that moment,
you know, then maybe that's the flash Bethany saw because
her her bedroom is on that first floor. Right, Yeah,

(27:40):
it's a good call, It's yeah, it's very reasonable. However, however,
that would that would mean that the DoorDash driver would
have run Intosanna at some point that night, and there
is no evidence of that. The DoorDash driver says she
never saw them. She got lost a little bit, you know.
There there's not one of those photos, you know, of

(28:02):
Xanna grabbing her food, So there's basically there's no evidence
that that front door was ever opened. When that door
dash driver was there.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Yeah, to validate what you're saying, body, the uh. In
that CCTV image that was released on the street you
can see this and truly, my heart breaks for the
it's just such a sad story.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Mouth.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yeah, and she's walking up and if you can see
her walking up and down the street and she's actually
looking at her like yeah, and and listen, I got
to tell you that area is very confusing.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Well, the house is technically.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
On Queen right, right, so yeah, everybody refers to but yeah,
it's actually on Coin legally.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
It's on King though, like the way the parcels. Yeah,
so it was confusing and she got a little loss.
So there's no here's the thing, there's no chance that
the DoorDash driver was taking a photo with her fly,
let's say, at the same time Xanna was opening the
door for the flash to seep through to Bethany's. But

(29:07):
I will say it's a great talk back. A lot
of people have come up with that as a you know,
maybe maybe maybe, but it doesn't seem to be. It's
weird too.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
I always assumed, do you know, when you're like laying
in your bed and somehow a car is driving around
the house and their lights kind of roll through your house.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
It's scary, you know.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
So the only difference here is this was kind of
a cult to sack, so you really had to be
intentional about driving down this road. You know, it wasn't
a through way if you will, like you had to
kind of you would have to go there to deliver
a package or if you were the DoorDash driver. By
the way, thank god she's survived. Yes, this is a
woman who really brushed with death and you know, thankfully

(29:50):
lived to tell the tale. So I guess that doesn't
really attract either, because there wouldn't be a lot of headlights.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
Kind of.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
It could have been the DoorDash driver leaving though, like
pulling up and making a three point turn kind of
situation getting out of there. It could have been that.
It could have been it could have been that. I
just don't think it was her on her phone taking
that makes sense, I, you know. I I love the
idea though, and you know, keep those talkbacks coming because

(30:16):
those are the kinds of ideas that it's one day
we're gonna be like, oh my god, that has to
be it, right, Like that has to be it but
we just haven't haven't gotten there yet. This is True
Crime Tonight on Iheartrader. We talk true crime all the time.
I'm body movin And I'm here with Stephanie Lydecker and
the wonderful and expert forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. And

(30:37):
right now we're talking about the latest updates that have
happened over the weekend in the Brian Coberger case. Again,
the Idaho State Police dropped a bunch of documents, which,
by the way, I have not gotten an opportunity to
get my little grubby hands on, but I will on you. Yeah,
I you know, it's so funny. I'm on vacation. That's
all I can think about. I got to get these documents.
I gotta get these documents. Have to get you better vacations,

(30:59):
you know.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
INDI take a time out, like I want you to
be doing the COMPLI yeah, put your phone down, have
a margarita, call it a day so you get fresh
minded Indian night.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
It's like our idea of a good time is sitting
on the couch being total sloths, eating popcorn, watching bad TV.
This and that's what we did. It was perfect. That's
not a vacation.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
That's yeah, that's just now every perfect that's every weekend
for me.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
So what that makes sense. That's just a day in
the life. Don't tell.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
But again, like these documents are coming out, and I
mean some of it's a little less surprising, but I
think where it's noting. You know, for example, on Christmas
Day he was doing a lot of searches of serial killers,
et cetera. Now, again, this is a guy who was
studying criminology. Is that particularly strange. I don't know, it

(31:48):
doesn't really seem very festive, if you will, But that's
been noted in here quite a bit. And also, Joseph,
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the two hundred
crime scene photos that also or are being shared. You know,
the family has been pretty outspoken, you know, throughout all
of this mess about how undignified these you know, photographs are,

(32:10):
and that they really shouldn't be shared so wildly. I'm
curious what your thoughts from a forensic standpoint on that is.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Am I surprised? No, I mean, any listen, it all starts.
It all starts with the people that are kind of
heading this thing up. Anybody that would send a family
an email that's right, tell them that's right. Photos are
the least of this. You're you're You're not going to
include them in in the decision. I feel very strongly

(32:37):
about this. On the other hand, I can look at
from the police perspective that they want to be able
to control the flow of information that's going to go out.
I have. I do have a big fear, like I
stated earlier, that something will either be generated and we're
going to be doing this thing where we're jumping from
the left foot right foot to try to say if
it's AI or not right, or somebody is going to

(32:59):
be tempted by money that's inside of the agency. I'll
tell you one questions I want to answer that still
hasn't been answered. I don't know where it's going, and
that is who was the leaker? Who is the leaker
that leaked to all of that information out prior to
all of this. And remember the judge said that he
I mean, let me get it straight. I think the

(33:20):
judge told the prosecutor that he wanted a special investigation
into this. Hadn't heard peep about that, have you, guys?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
I have note, that's a really good question. Boddy, you
have what is the update there?

Speaker 3 (33:32):
So the Bill Thompson and detective one of the detectives,
I can't remember which one it was now I think
Gilbertson met with Kevin Fixler from the Idaho Statesman, who,
by the way, is doing excellent reporting on this case, tremendous, tremendous,
excellent reporting. And Bill Thompson said, yeah, there's a special

(33:53):
prosecutor that's appointed, and that the judge and the state,
which of course is Bill Thompson and the defense won't
get updated on it and they don't know the status
of it because they're not part of this investigation. There
are the ones that are being investigated. So there is
an investigation ongoing. We don't have any updates on it,
and nobody else does either, and when we do, we do,

(34:15):
but right now there's no there's no updates on it.
But they are going to find the person. And listen,
it's going to be more than one person, because you know,
there's the Howard Bloom leaks that happened with Howard Bloom,
There's the James Patterson leaks that happened with James Patterson.
There's the Dateline leaks that happen with dateline. You know,
there's several different leaks along the way.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
So can I ask one unpopular question, do those leaks
mean he confessed, meaning.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
We hate those leaks?

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Right, they were all up in arms about everything else
one you just mentioned, but then he did confess. Do
you think because of those said leaks that you know,
Brian Coburger realized, Wow, I'm not going to win thing.
There's no chance in hell I'm going to get away
with this, and I'm going to find myself on death row.
And that's why he ultimately confessed in the eleventh hour.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
That coward. I mean, you know, maybe, but I think
it tends to be more that the third party, you know,
calpability was denied. His alibi was a joke. I think
it basically what was happening was every motion the defense
was bringing, like we want to start blaming these people.
This is the alibi, we want to challenge the DNA,
we wanted. Everything was being denied by the by the

(35:31):
judge and the last Hail Mary. You know, the judge
denied it and said the last best offer has to
be in at the end of July, and here we
are now. I just think it was he was at
the end of his rope with all.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
His I can. I can also see it from the
perspective of a of some media outlet thinking that they're
going to be, you know, the white night riding in
on the steep. It's going to uncoverage, you know, they're
going to be the next brand, the star or whatever,
and they're going to go out there and they're going
to say, I'm going to be the hero. I'm going
to pry this information loose, will expose it and he'll

(36:08):
have to roll over, you know, like it's some kind
of serialized tele This is real life. This is not television.
And I think that that line gets blurred very frequently.
If if that comes out, I think that that nothing
will happen. I don't think relative to any kind of
news agency, but I think that there needs to be

(36:28):
a warning shot fired over the over the bow of
individuals within agencies that decide to do this, because this
you have a huge problem here if this goes sideways
on you, I mean, and I don't I don't think
people fully appreciate what could have happened. I think those
of us that are you know, have a background in

(36:50):
forensics and work these cases. As investigators, we know what
could have happened, and the fact that somebody on the inside,
if there was somebody on the inside, did it. Shame shame.
We'll find out hopefully. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Wow, you have the potential to affect the jury pool, right, Yeah,
get the trial pushed mm hmm. You have the potential
to give the defense time. Yeah. Or maybe there's like
inculpatory evidence that they the state doesn't want the public
to know about yet, right, like, you know, especially if
there's evidence that links him to other crimes. You know,

(37:26):
just s don't want that stuff out there yet, you know,
he presented.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Yeah, look to use a gambling analogy. The media is
playing with house money. They got nothing to lose, get
everything to gain. Who knows?

Speaker 2 (37:37):
The hands are in the air in the studio, it
is flying by. I am Stephanie Leidecker here with Body
Move In and tonight, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert in
host of Body Bags the podcast is joining us to
unpack forensics about Brian Coburger and the recent developments with
new information that the police are basically sharing with the

(37:59):
public and also this Oregon potential serial killer again, a
case that Joseph has been talking about behind the scenes
for a while now, so he's going to unpack that
as well. And we want to hear from you eight
eight eight three one crime but also very very important.
And Joseph, this one's close to your heart. Out of
New Orleans. There's a missing person that we want to
alert to the public and maybe we can all kind

(38:22):
of come together and be actionable and hopefully find some
find some new information.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Joseph, do you want to share a.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
Little Yeah, dude, this case is coming out of an
area called East New Orleans, New Orleans, the East as
locals refer to it. If you've ever come into New
Orleans on Autien, you're passing the all six flags that
was wiped out at Katrina. It's kind of in a
I hate to say desolate, but it's in kind of
a questionable area. A lot of swamp land around there

(38:51):
surrounding this area. And we're talking about a young man,
a young kid, twelve years old, Bryon Vasquez, and he
was reported missing at ten am back on August fourteenth.
Now here's the thing, and you need to keep this
in mind. This child suffers from seizures, all right, and

(39:13):
he's got a neurodevelopmental disorder and he's nonverbal. The last
time he was seeing he was almost completely nude, with
the exception of wearing an adult diaper. That's kind of
his status and just kind of wandering about. So they've
got all points out looking for him, and anybody that

(39:34):
happens to come across him, anybody that knows anyone in
the area, please urge them to keep an eye out
for this child. I mean, he is completely defenseless out
in this world. And here's the phone number if you
want to reach out. It's area code five oh four six'
five eight six 'sh seven. Zero keep in, mind, AGAIN

(39:58):
i cannot emphasize what kind of danger he's in because
there is a lot of swamp land around. Here there's
a lot of canals that are easy to step off.
INTO i just pray for his. Safety keep the police
in your in your thoughts relative to, this and let's
help find this.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Child, Yeah i'm so glad you brought this to our.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Attention this is kind of the spirit of the whole show,
too just generally, speaking is, look we're stronger together and
sometimes we just have to get the word. Out so
for anyone. Listening, yeah please back to that number That
joseph just, shared and we'll be also putting that up
in our socials as. Well five zero four six five
eight six zero seven zero and please any new, information

(40:41):
and then we're going to come back in the next
hour also and be really unpacking This oregon. Thing, JOSEPH
i know you're chopping at the bit in this.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
One go. AHEAD i just want to say really. Quick
brand is A hispanic male with brown eyes and black.
Hair he's about five one any weighs anywhere between eighty
six and one hundred, Pounds so he's just a little.

Speaker 4 (41:01):
Kid he's a little. Guy, yeah he. Is he, is
and again, nonverbal so if you approach, him he's not
going to verbally respond to, You so be very, careful be,
gentle be, kind and just keep an eye out for.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Him, NOW i would imagine he would stand out like
a sore thumb, though walking around in an adult.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Tapers, YEAH i, don't you, Know and it would sound
that it sounds like he's not capable really of self.
Care and so that's a major problem. Here and yet it's.
Summertime you'd, say, well you, know he'll be, okay it's,
warm weather out. There, no it's insufferably. Hot and he
doesn't have water and so.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
And he doesn't know how to ask for.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Water, no he. Doesn't and you know there's wildlife out,
there serious. Wildlife please keep your eye out for.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Him all, right thank you for Sharing Joseph's we're going
to be right. Back welcome back to True crime tonight On.
iHeartRadio we're talking to crime all the. Time I'm Stephanie
leidecker here with crime Analyst Body Move, in And Joseph Scott,

(42:11):
morgan forensics expert and host of the Podcast Body, bags
joins us because look At Scientific sunday and if you
have missed any of the first hour of the, show no,
sweat just catch us right after on the.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Podcast and also, listen you gotta tell us what you're.
Thinking eight eight eight three one.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Crime please jump, in join the, conversation leave us a
talk back on The iHeartRadio, app hit us up on our,
socials or just call us live a little bit Like
cynthia From, Canada welcome to the.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Show we're so glad you're.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
Here hi, there how everybody?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Tonight, hey miss how are you?

Speaker 8 (42:48):
Hi this question is For. Joseph my question is did
the professor from the university have a duty of care
to any of the current students or future students that
may have come in contact With brian's through that program
that he was in doing his doctorate.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Degree good.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
CALL i can't speak to what WSU's protocol is At Jack. State, yeah, if, oh,
yeah if we sense that there was a student that
is out of, control there are certain avenues that we.
Take SO i don't know how they handle it out,
there BUT i know that in my, world if there
was somebody that was presenting with disturbing, behavior and you

(43:25):
can't just blow this off and dismiss it as, well
he's a, student he's. Eccentric you, know he's going to study.
CRIMINOLOGY i know plenty of students that are. Eccentric i'm,
ECCENTRIC a lot of us professors. Are we're. Weirdos but
when it, rises when it rises to this, level that
that's your perception of the individual and you're going to

(43:46):
be trapping women against walls and sexual harassment. Stuff come, on,
man you know? That, well, yeah it's kind of. UNREASONABLE
i need.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
LISTEN i got to get my hand on these. Documents
do we know what behavior the professor was referencing that
is a. QUESTION i, mean it's going to be hard
to answer, That, cynthia because, like do professors have like
an obligation to, report, Right like they're not mandatory, reporters
like in the sense that like they're not you, know

(44:14):
mandated by law to report, something but the faculty must
report if a student makes direct threats OR i look
this up in between breaks BECAUSE i was wondering we run.
Break by the, way are you And cynthia sharing the exact?
SAME i was, LIKE i wonder if THAT wsu professor is,

(44:35):
wondering like after the, murders was THAT wsu professor kind
of going, HMMM i wonder if.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
Information did they have direct, information direct evidence that would
you know where they're making this. Assessment, now this is
just them arbitrarily opining about, something, Right that's different Than,
Okay i've seen how this guy acts around around women
and he's a. Threat, okay, now if that, occurs, yeah

(45:04):
you would push it through. Channels but if this is
just kind of you, know it's like they're writing a,
paper they're offering up an. Opinion, well even with, papers
you have to have substant, scientific you, know data that
you can back up this supposition with is that what?
HAPPENED i don't, Know.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Cynthia great, question and make sure you keep calling. Back
we have missed hearing from you. Too you, know, INTERESTINGLY
i HAD i interviewed on The idaho. MASSACRE i believe
it was season, one season three dropping this week one
of his former students that was in his class before

(45:41):
the murders and w seater correct and you, know, look
you know we kept a lot of the stuff on
the editing room floor a because she wanted to remain.
Anonymous it was so scary.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Too at the, time it was not.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Proven his, judication it wasn't, adjudicated and it's not our
role to slander or affect a jury, pool so we
had to be really careful about what we aired and
what we. Didn't but, listen this was a female student
and she was creeped out by, him and there was
no question that he treated female students differently and that

(46:17):
he just had a weird way about. Him and after the,
murders he he was. Unshaven and again we're leading into,
finals so you could see how this could get explained
away either. Way but he seemed like a little more,
stressed a little more, tired a little, unshaven a little,
unkept but a little happier in his grading after the
murders versus.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Before he was like that stickler.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Guy and she basically would, say, like nobody really would
want to go to student hours or what is it, Called,
joseph you, know when you have to go see your
professor because you need a little extra help or you're
clear about one of the. Topics teachers, hours, right advisement.
Hours you know when you go see your you, know
your professor or your teacher's assistant after class because you
want more more info or you want to do better

(47:02):
on your, test et. Cetera and like nobody wanted to
deal with him because he, was you, know a CLASS a,
weirdo and we really know they call him a.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
PSYCHOPATH i would really like to know why the professor said,
This like what behaviors specifically were they looking at or
were they were they tracking? It even for this professor to,
say if we give him a, PhD that's the guy
that in many years when he's a, professor we will
hear he is, harassing, stalking and sexually. Abusing those are strong.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
Words very, Strong and what was. It what was it
that you said earlier body about he, said HE i
Study what was?

Speaker 3 (47:41):
It he, SAID i study?

Speaker 4 (47:43):
Predators, yes, wow holy, SMOKES i mean that's.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
That's it's in, lammatory, right.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah it really is. Inflammatory so there's.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Got to be some. Evidence there's got to be something
right that that lets this or that gives the professor
the cone right to say something so strong like.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
That this is a thread that runs through this entire
case where you've got this kind of you, know let's face,
it academia is not the real, world and so you've
got where the real world actually merges into this you,
know collegiate environment and this weird crossover that you have

(48:23):
where people are, thinking you, know this is like just
the homicides, themselves this cannot possibly happen. Here and then
you've got this input from professors that are saying things like.
This now it's like a. Shop they're not in a
correctional facility observing. Somebody this is an individual that they're
in charge of teaching and teaching them how to. Teach

(48:45):
so again we've crossed over into the surreal here in this.
Case it's one of the things that hooked me on
the case from the big the cases from the, beginning
because it happened at a. UNIVERSITY i was teaching a
university and it's so. Similar it's just super. Bizarre are super?

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Bizarre, Yeah SO i WOULD i would really like to
know why this, professor what specific behavior is the reports of?
Him you, Know brian it was Either Brian Interner Ashley
banfield was saying that he would basically corner women in,
rooms like block them from exiting with his, body like

(49:21):
he was spatially trapping them in. Rooms and you, know
is it that behavior that made this professor say that
or is there more that we just don't know.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
About we don't Know and let me tell you. Something
is there somebody who found it? Out Is brianton a
big shout. Out is one of the best of the. Business.
Now he is.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
FANTASTIC i agree him And Kevin fixler have really from
from my, perspective really, risen you, know above the, fold
right like they they've just done a phenomenal. Job i'm
particularly particularly impressed With Kevin fixler and his reporting from
The Idaho. Statesman just. Fantastic but, yeah we're gonna have
To we're gonna have to and. See but, yeah there

(50:01):
is no professional mandate unless there's right this documented behavior
of him completely harassing. Everybody so, anyway stay. Tuned we're
going to keep following This Brian koberger stuff and it's
going to keep coming out little by, little, dribbled blood.
Dribble so stick with us true crime. Tonight we're talking
true crime all the. Time you can give us a
call at eighty eight thirty One. Crime right, NOW i

(50:23):
think we're gonna shift a little bit if we don't
mind into you want to Do, ORGAN i, do.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Although we also have one more talk back if we
can jump to, that let's do.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
It, Okay i'm, Down.

Speaker 9 (50:34):
Hi, Everyone i'm a big fan of your. Show oh,
yeah and last week's, EPISODE i was looking to the
serial killer and organ you guys, discuss and his charges
are really interesting to. Me with all four, women he
was charged with second degree murder and abuse of a.
Corpse SO i was wondering what evidence could the prosecutors
have to lead them to those charges instead of something

(50:57):
else like first degree. Murder i'm excited to hear what
y'all think about.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
This by do we have? This is there a?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Spy i'm a Studio this is crazy by the, way
that's about what we're gonna jump to. Now, Essentially joseph's
here to literally discuss that. Case WE i swear we're being.
Tapped great, Question, JOSEPH i don't even. Know we can't
answer it with before setting it, UP i, guess, Right,
YEAH i got to set it.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Up pretty pretty, amazing, absolutely and it's going to be
fascinating to. Explore, Right so just.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
A quick set the, table, right we can jump into it.
Now So Jesse Lee, calhoun he is the suspected serial
killer In. Oregon he has been, charged as the talk back,
said he's already been charged with three murders, again second
degree murder In portland And Southwest, washington and he has
pled not guilty to a fourth one they just put

(51:53):
on his plate and abuse of a corpse charge On august.
Sixth this is all very, recent you. Guys On august
so this, Year calhoun was indicted for the murder Of Kristin,
smith whose remains were found in back in twenty twenty. Two,
okay On august, eleventh he pled not guilty to the
murder or abuse of a corpse relative to that. Charge

(52:14):
calhoun was indicted last year in the deaths Of Charity
perry twenty, Four Bridget webster thirty, one And Joanna speaks thirty.
Two he remains in custody in The Moultoona County Ivernus
jail and his trial is expected to be held in
twenty twenty. Seven so we've got some. Time, listen we

(52:35):
have hi until twenty twenty seven to dig into this.
Case so let's take our. Time let's not rush through.
IT i want to get some of these, details and
we've Got joseph here to help us walk us through.
It so three women he's charged with In portland area
and dumping their bodies. Again he was indicted recently for
a fourth. Charge In august, sixth a grand jury indicted
him in The november of twenty twenty two death of

(52:58):
twenty two year Old Kristin. Smith the district attorney his
name Is Nathan. Vesquez he said during a press news
conference that that all. Happened he pled not guilty to
the new, charge one count of second degree murder and
one count of abusive a. Corpse, Now i'm not sure
why he's getting charged with second degree. MURDER i truly

(53:18):
don't know. Yet we're just kind of digging into this,
now but we'll find. Out he has pled not guilty
to all of. Them each of them is a second
degree murder. Charge i've already said that their bodies were
found over several, months starting in twenty twenty, three in wooded,
areas like in a culvert and under a, bridge and
it was roughly in like a kind of a small,

(53:40):
area like one hundred square, miles which is pretty actually
it sounds, large but it's. Not he was arrested in
the over the summer of twenty twenty three on unrelated,
warrants so he was already in jail when he was
indicted for these. Murders he was in jail and, unrelated unrelated.
Crimes he was initially really least in twenty twenty, one

(54:01):
a year, early because he helped fight. WILDFIRES a lot
of these guys in jail will volunteer firefight and they'll
get time taking off their. Sentence this is, crazy like
he was released because of.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
That, well he was granted. Clemency, yeah and, yeah it's
pretty disgusting and look good on you if you want
to fight. Fires BUT i don't know how much of
a background check they did on this. Guy kind of,
running you, know running through the numbers and seeing what
he had done in the. Past but it's almost, like you,
know when he, exited he started on this, journey horrible

(54:33):
journey to kill these. Women very.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
True the quick pace of the murders that he's accused
of committing after his release indicates that he felt. Invincible
and guess who's telling us? That Catherine, ramsland who is
Also Brian cowerer's.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Professor and we are digging into This oregon. Case there's
a potential serial killer in the timeline.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Here he's kind of.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Fascinating this guy has been. Arrested he's claiming. Innocence, however
some of the forensics it's adding. Up so, body do
you want to give us a little summary of this?

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Case so There's i'm gonna just do a timeline because
it's going to go into What i'm going to be talking.
About So Ashley, reel she's twenty. Two her murder is
still under, investigation and he has not been indicted with
this murder, yet BUT i kind of foresee it, coming
So i'm gonna mention. Her, Okay Ashley, reel she was

(55:28):
last seen On march twenty seventh of twenty twenty. Three
her body was found a few months later In may
in a wooded area In Clackamus. County her death is considered,
suspicious But calhoun has not officially been. Charged, Okay so That's,
march and then we go To. April joanna, speaks she's thirty.

(55:48):
Two her body was Found april, eighth twenty twenty, three
inside an abandoned barn In Clark, County. Washington her clause
of death was a blunt forced trout to the head and.
Neck he was indicted for second degree murder and abusive
of a corpse in that. Case Then april twenty, fourth

(56:09):
so a couple of weeks, later in a culvert In
Ainsworth State park east Of, portland there Was Charity Lynn.
Perry she was. Found she was twenty. Four. Okay he
was indicted for second degree murder and abusive corpse in that.
Case then four days, later a body was Found Bridget

(56:30):
Leanne webster thirty. One you know This april thirtieth on
a rural road Near Mill creek In Polk, County. Oregon
the charges were filed and he was indicted for second
degree murder and abusive corpse in that case as. Well
so these all happen in rapid. Succession and right before
the BREAK i had mentioned That Catherine, ramsland who was

(56:52):
of course Famously Brian coberger's professor at the sales who you,
know also wrote the book ON. Btk she's pretty, famous,
Right she said the quick pace of these murders because
they happen in quick, succession there's a very very little
cooling down period right in these cases that he felt
invincible and says that this is what she, said he

(57:15):
thinks he's going to get away with, it and so he's,
escalating he's wanting to do it more and. More and
she told this To Ashley. Manfield he may be developing
sort of an addiction to. It so this pretty rapid
fire is something that we're not normally seeing with siliary.
Killers the cooling off period is usually, weeks if not.
Months this was days, Days so it's it's very very.

(57:38):
Interesting what do you guys think about that the rapid.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Succession first of, all the idea of a cooling off
period always gives me, chills just this idea of somebody committing,
murder probably with the intention of doing it, again but
then going back to their lives and sometimes they have
families and they live in a community and they're upstanding
and their air quotes cooling.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Off to, me that is the scariest of scary.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Because, then, yeah it's the guy sitting next to you
at church or the you, know not really that that would,
know you, know but it's just like there's a stranger
or a boogeyman amongst, us and that is so scary
that you could commit a crime so. VICIOUS i, mean
messing with a corpse and this isn't getting any.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
More, disgusting AND i mean that could just be moving it, too, right, yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
And also not taking due care with the human, remains
so that's very. Disrespectful and again it goes to you,
know treating humans as if they're refuse and, so and
that's a big part of. This one of the things
that's kind of fascinating to me about when it comes
to speed is that would speed comes, Carelessness so.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Especially if you're feeling, invincible, Right, yeah you're absolutely.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
Right steph mentioned. CHURCH btk was a, deacon right or
an elder, church so, yeah he could have been seated
right next to. You so when you think about these,
INDIVIDUALS btk, though was very. Purposeful he planned for a
long and he would have huge gaps in. Time this
is not something he rushed. Into this guy rushing like

(59:15):
this always gives me the impression that there's a potential
for somebody to make a. Mistake AND i think that
Doctor ramselin is correct in this idea of not cooling
off and that there's it's almost like mainlining, adrenaline the
urge to do. This all this stuff is sexually. CONNECTED
i think he's on a sexual high probably or whoever did.

(59:35):
This remember he's, charged he's not. Convicted but you, know,
broadly you have to think body you had mentioned this
kind of concentrated. Area most of these guys are NOT
i hate to use his, term but it's a term
that the you, know behavioral sciences people talk about they
don't hunt outside of their. Area that's not always. True

(59:57):
that has been proven wrong because THERE i have been
those that go on the, road you, know outist, tool you,
know all of these all these people over the years
have done. That Ted bundy went on the, road all,
Right so that doesn't always hold. True mostly, yeah, Famously
and how did they? Select look at that brackets of age,
Here look at these. Women i'd ask you the, age

(01:00:18):
and it's a very kind of a narrow, thing maybe
a decade. Difference and you, know top, end low end, relative.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Yeah twenty, four thirty, one twenty, two they're, young, yea.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Yeah and then you consider. Race they say serial killers
don't hunt outside their. RACE i don't necessarily believe. THAT
i think they. Will they're. Opportunists and also it's always
sex workers that want up being. Victims NOW i don't
know what the background these.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
WANT i don't.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
EITHER i have no. Idea maybe he just yanked them
off the, street or maybe they were. Involved but still
you have these precious. Souls their lives have been ended
and they discarded like, rubbish and you can learn a
lot about the behavior of these, individuals how they treat
the bodies. Afterwards word around the campfire at this point in,
time What i'm hearing all right with my, sources some

(01:01:06):
of these bodies are in an advanced state of, decay
so you're going to be absent some critical. Information and
that goes back to some of these BODIES i think
have been placed adjacent to watery areas with the culver
that sort of. Thing there's one that was adjacent TO
i think a, river If i'm not. Mistaken i'm really

(01:01:28):
wondering if this guy's thinking about eradicating fiber evidence or
any kind of trace evidence it's. ON i mean that
area of the, country beautiful. AREA i love going up.
There but, buddy does it rain so you don't necessarily
have to have a body in, Water but if it's
exposed like, this you can eradicate certain types of. Evidence
but we don't know clothing status at this. Point you

(01:01:48):
don't know cause of death at this, point we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
Know only one we know about Is Joanna, sparks and
it said blunt force. Traumas, okay she's.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
The only, one only, one, yeah with.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
A confirmed public cause of. Death the others are confirmed,
homicides but the methods have not been disclosed. Yet you
prosecutors usually withhold those kinds of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Things and was that particular Victim Joanne? Sparks she was
also in a location that was, unique, right she was
In she was In, washington, right Not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
Oregon, yes that's, Her, Yep, yeah her body was found
inside an abandoned barn In, Ridgefield. Washington her cause of
death is the only one we know, about and it
says blunt force trauma to the head and next she's
the only one we know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
About CAN i give you a little insight into.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Of, course because that's why you're here.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
With when you have a. Body, okay let's just look
at this from a prosecutor. Standpoint they've connected these these
cases and he's been. Charged, okay here's the. Thing they
flipped the switch on this thing because feds are not
going to be involved in he's crossed state, lines so
all of the resources they're not going to have to
be invited in at this point because if he he

(01:03:00):
kidnapped this, woman took her over, there if he's crossing state, yeah,
absolutely you flip the switch and now you're steering directly
into the teeth of the federal government and all of
the resources they. Have i'm not saying that That oregon
And washington don't have great, resources but when you have
an entire unit within THE fbi that is a behavioral sciences,

(01:03:20):
unit and not to mention the lab At quantico and
all the other assets they, have they're marching onto the field.
Now so he's really put. Himself whoever the perpetrator, is
has really put themselves in a very very precarious position
here that makes me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Scared you, know COULD i just go back to one
thing you just, Mentioned joseph THAT i hadn't heard, before
that serial killers don't hunt outside of their race typically not.

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
INTERESTING i don't necessarily agree with. That that has been
stated over and over. Again you, know this kind of.
Boilerplate you hear, It you hear it a lot outside
they don't hunt outside their, race and all these sorts of,
things AND i just don't buy into that all of the.
TIME i don't think any of the stuff that they
put out there is the. PARAMETERS i don't think any

(01:04:07):
of it is as static as people believe it actually.
Is and it's very broad broad. Strokes and it's amazing
Because i've been involved with cases where they've been profiled
and they were way off the, market off to mark
a couple of. Times so it's not like it's gospel
all right every single. Time it's mainly a place to,

(01:04:28):
begin mainly a place to. Begin and you, know, famously you,
know The atlanta child, murders which is very. Controversial there
were a lot of people that got that. WRONG i
Think John, douglas so you, know stated and he was you,
know kind of laughed at for saying this that this
is going to be An African american male that's committing

(01:04:48):
these crimes because he was going into the projects In,
Atlanta techwood homes doesn't exist, anymore and he was snatching little.
Boys you, know how can you? Go you, know because
a lot of people are saying The klan was doing
this and a rod into into the projects in Downtown
atlanta and snatch kid off the. Street.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Joseph the same thing happened with The Grim. Sleeper do
you guys remember The Grim? Sleeper he was killing black
women in south Central Los angeles and they were, like you,
know were you very rarely ever get An African american serial.
KILLER i can't think of. One but they were, like
it has to be a black, man and they were,
right it was, wow, Wow Grim sleeper and it was

(01:05:29):
like south CENTRAL. La, yeah that was a crazy. One
well the last ONE i remember at.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Least, continue LIKE i was going to, say, honestly is
typically not typically not usually a white, male you, Know so,
listen we're going to continue all of these conversations buzzing
yeah right. Now SO i guess we're going to have
to get to some.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Talkbacks.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Even though school is getting going for, You, joseph, professor
you still rock in the mal Of, bhutan which were you,
know jealous OF i might add Any, yeah you're right
fresh off a, BOAT i. Assume so, listen we're gonna
have a little talkback roulette right. Now so the phones are.
Buzzing let's go straight to our first.

Speaker 10 (01:06:22):
Talkback, HI i had a question For Joseph Scott. Morgan
you guys covered the murder On Safari trophy wife case Last,
sunday and they talked about how this, Guy Larry rudolph
told everyone that a crocodile bit off his finger and
then he started receiving disability for it because he could
no longer perform as a. Dentist but a lot of
people think that he shot off his own finger just

(01:06:44):
to get these disability. Checks AND i was wondering If
joseph had any forensic ideas about whether or not it
was a.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Crocodile that's a great.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
Question, yeah it truly. Is and first, OFF i saw the.
Image he was not bitten. Off it's still The i've
never had any experience of. Crocodiles i've had a lot
of experience with alligators In South, louisiana and SO i
know what these injuries look, like particularly as it applies
to post mortem. Feeding but he it looked to me

(01:07:14):
the image THAT i saw From Trophy wife, excellent excellent.
Docu by the, WAY i thoroughly enjoyed. It it looked
to me like a blast, injury and that, is, yeah it.
Did it kind of had as if you're looking at the,
wound if you're thinking about a clock, face it's really.
Gruesome if you see the, image you, know if you
don't have strong, STOMACH i wouldn't recommend to go look at.

(01:07:36):
It but at like the if you look at it
like a clock, face there's like THE i think it's
either the two or three o'clock. Position there's it appears
to be some singing that's going on there that you,
know you only get like when a weapon is. Fired,
okay when a weapon is fired and it's. Discharged if
you've ever seen a weapon fired at, night it's pretty amazing.

(01:07:56):
THING i was in the army and they used to
do a thing called a mad, minute and you burn
up all your EXCESS amo at the end of the
day when you're at the, range and it's always done at,
night so you see nothing but fire coming out of
the ends of. Weapon but that even happens with the smallest.
Handgun you've got an element of fire and just for a,
millisecond it'll light things up and it, Burns, okay. Burns

(01:08:17):
so if you place a weapon that close to your,
hand a crocodile would have snapped his damn hand, off
probably at the, risk if not at the. Elbow these
things are. Massive and the fact that it only got
his thumb while he's pulling a fish out of the
water Ball and of course there were no witnesses to,
it so that that ALWAYS i found it kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
Human you can't, see But i'm making a face right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Now, wait but, wait how do you survive an alligator or?

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Crocodile?

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Joseph since you seem to, know can you do you run?

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Zigzag is that?

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
TRUE i don't. Know they move VERY i would not.
Want people don't really realize how fast these things can
run on land that and Beare i'm always amazing people
that approach. Wildlife it's SOMETHING i don't. Understand they don't
realize that a bear can run almost forty miles per.
Hour in first you know you're not going to get
away from, it and alligators in, particular in my experience

(01:09:10):
At South, louisiana they move very very. Fast i've seen them.
Movie it seems like they're moving. Slow but if someone
is being, chased AND i know people that have been,
chased they look Like Carl lewis Chasing. Abia all, right
you're not going to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
War so this guy pointed a gun at his own
hand and fired a, JRIGGER i, mean thinks about the
psychopathy that, like like can you? Imagine, yeah and then
he got free money for.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
It so, yeah he got a bunch of cash and
did that for a really long. Time so, again, yeah
very very. Bad thank you for the talk.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Back that was a that was a good. One apparently
we have a. Voicemail let's hear this.

Speaker 11 (01:09:48):
Voicemail oh, guys It's sarah the doctor again the, doctor
and was laughing at the part where you all were talking,
about you, know the pills In Marilyn monroe and you,
know whether you can give yourself an enema and, Not
and you absolutely can give yourself an. Enema it's really
there's a lot of easy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Ways to do.

Speaker 11 (01:10:08):
It and we've been doing it in medicine for a long,
time especially for people's like constipation or things like. That
we use a lot of enemas for those types of
things as well as you, know illicit drug. Use but
the pills being in her, colon like pills are made
to degrade in your stomach and in your small intestine
with all of the enzymes and things in. There so

(01:10:30):
it would be unless you, know obviously would need to
look more into, it but it would be very bizarre
to have pills or pieces of pills in your colon
because your stomach acid and all the enzymes in your
small intest and should break all that. Down, Anyway, bye
love the, Show Love sarah The.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Doctor, yes thank, you Doctor. Sarah that's a that's your
new official title on the, Show Doctor. SARAH i might be.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Not ben sure enough to talk about. ENEMAS i don't
know what the like repositories, really, yeah AND i literally
am not sophisticated, enough but, yes it does, track AND
i think it is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
SUSPICIOUS i don't. KNOW i, mean these pills in are
colony THAT i don't.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
Know, well a lot of it on if Doctor noguchi
did what's referred to in, autopsy we do something called
running the, bowel which means when you take the bowel
out at, autopsy and we do this with every. Case
you go right down the middle line of it and
you open it up and you look at the surface of,
it and it's just what we. DO i, mean we have.
To yeah and. Yeah if you were to find particulate

(01:11:37):
bits of, drugs particularly in the in the, colon which
is the large, bowel it would be highly. Irregular SO
i think that if anything was placed in, her it
would have to be in a gelatinous, form or maybe
it was rendered down into a liquid till they could
get it rendered down to that point where they could
dose her with.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
It, well your listening To True crime tonight where we
talk true crime all the. Time i'm by Move in
And i'm here With Stephanie Lai decker and the wonderful
and very opinionated right Now Joseph Scott. Morgan, yeah and
we're just firing. Talkbacks, adam if you want to weigh,
in give us a call at eighty eight thirty One
crime or send us your out talk back and, boom
you're on the. Show let's hear another talk back For.

Speaker 12 (01:12:18):
Joseph, hi ladies And, joseph if you're still on the show.
Tonight this Is liz From, washington like my forty eighth
time calling, in but we love last night you asked
about the line between tourism and, morbidity and what really
is that? LINE i will say my personal opinion is
just that if something is done for a historical, impact it's.
Fine if it's done just for tourism and to get

(01:12:39):
a rise and to earn a, dollar probably not if
you guys ever have the chance to go to any
of the concentration. Camps as horrible as that, SOUNDS i
have been to Duckau in just Outside, Munich, germany, twice
and it is the most humbling experience That i've ever.
Experienced i've done it, twice LIKE i, said and it
is one percent if you're ever In europe or anywhere

(01:13:02):
else said something like that has ever. Happened BUT i
just wanted to put that out. THERE i know That
corney said that she's been to The Holocaust, museum but
it's nothing like putting your feet on those.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
Stones you, right have a good, Night thank, you thank
you so much for the talk ABOUT i think that's
a really good, line, right if it's teaching us history
or you, know shining a lens on, history especially history
that we don't want to, repeat, right then it's not
necessarily dark. Tororism but if you're just going to, see you,
know Where Jeffrey dahmer did, something then that's you, know

(01:13:31):
maybe the moral. Line AND, i you, KNOW i kind
of agree with what she, Said, yeah thank.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
You it's really important to be in the place where
it happens, sometimes, right, so you, know especially a concentration
camp of.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
That you, know it's words can't do, enough.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Right there are no. Words so maybe experiencing that. Firsthand
WHEN i first went To Los, ANGELES i drove By
rockingham where, ojay oh did you really?

Speaker 3 (01:13:57):
Living and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Arrested how crazy does that make me a? Little pretty crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
Happened BUT i.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
Went To Chateau marmon to see Where belushi had. Died oh, yeah, yeah.
YEAH i was staying in a house Behind Chateau marma
and went down, there walked, around you, know tried to.
Visualize you can't really see the, area but you, know
just you, know because you hear about this your entire.
LIFE i was a HUGE snl fan and a Big belushi,
fan AND i was curious about. It you, know where

(01:14:27):
is it and it's right there on the main. Drag but,
YEAH i, mean one of the most disturbing Places i've
ever been personally was The American Pow, museum which is
located In, andersonville well outside Of America's, georgia but it's
at where The Andersonville Prison camp, was where hundreds Of
union soldiers were starved to. Death and it was one
of the most disturbing Places i've ever. Been and it's

(01:14:50):
kind of off the beaten, path but, yeah it's it's
run by THE, feds and it's The American Pow camp Or,
museum and it Was it's amazing with those what those
brave servicemen went through and what they had to, endure
and these deaths that they died were.

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
Horrendous, well we had time for one more talk, back
do we? Guys do we have to?

Speaker 10 (01:15:11):
Do?

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Yeah, bring, okay let's do.

Speaker 5 (01:15:12):
It, kay, Ladies andrea From North. CAROLINA i look forward
to listening to you every morning on my morning. Walk,
yeah AND i had a question ABOUT i didn't realize
That madison had woken definitely up that she couldn't find her, dog,
right is there a possibility that he was potentially in
the home and did something To, murphy kept him in

(01:15:35):
a different, room and then waited for them to fall.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
Asleep that's a personal working theory of.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Mine It's steph. Unsubstantiated But i've often thought that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
A lot of you, know a lot of people think
that it's possible that he basically Groomed, murphy you, know
Like kaylee reported that she saw a man in her
backyard in the tree line and That murphy was acting
kind of, strange and is it possible that he, was you,
know Giving murphy. Treats you, KNOW i don't think that's necessarily,

(01:16:07):
possible but it is interesting That maddie went down To
bethany's room that, night and it was around probably around
three o'clock or, so and said that she couldn't Find.
MURPHY i think that is very. INTERESTING i don't know
if it has anything to do with, anything but it's
really the only context that we have is that she
couldn't Find. MURPHY i don't Remember murphy's the friendliest.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Dog by all, accounts it was a very popular house
with a lot of foot traffic in and, out so
this wasn't like a yipper of a.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Dog, now you, know they do say you, know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
Sometimes smaller pets can detract somebody from a home invasion
because they're so erratic and like hard TO i can
say this from firsthand, experience hard to wrangle in a
moment's notice sometimes or in some larger. Animals this is
going to sound, horrible but that they can be. Drugged you,

(01:16:59):
know you can give them a shot because there's sometimes
like more like come to your feet and giving hugs
and kisses and.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
WELL i will, say listening to the audio that we
got with the the ring cam footage basically from that,
night it sounds to me Like murphy's in. Distress it
sounds to me Like murphy is. Alerting it sounds to
me Like murphy was not groomed by. Him AND i
don't Think Brian coberger did anything To.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Murphy we've been talking true crime all the, time and
this night is coming to an.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
End it's hard to.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Believe if you've missed any of the, show please don't sweat.
It catch it as a podcast right after and you
can start now leaving us some voicemails.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Overnight you, know tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
We have a stacked show as, well and we will
cover the Mon talk.

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
Mystery OH i really want to the fashion designer.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Found dead on that. Yacht so we didn't get to it.
Tonight we absolutely will. Tomorrow and by the, way we
haven't gotten to many of our, talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
So you know we, WILL i.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Promise So, joseph, listen we have This oregon. Stuff we're
still going to keep. Covering, Obviously, yeah this mon talk.
Murder you've been everywhere talking about. It SO i know
tomorrow night's not great for, you but you'll have to
pick a knight this week Because joseph's back in, session
he's back in, school and he's you, know on every
show no, demand so he's running a tight schedule right.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Now but we you're really ground.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
Zero every night is a true crime.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
Tonight we know where your priority.

Speaker 4 (01:18:29):
Is, Like i'm, ready rock and, roll let's go to talk.

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Back they have it.

Speaker 13 (01:18:35):
Ready, hi this Is mila From, Scottsdale. ARIZONA i was
wondering if the flash That dylan saw Was Brian coberger's.
Camera he probably, well he obviously had it on airplane,
mode but did he take? Pictures was that the?

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
Flash? Yeah that's? It you, KNOW i wondered the same.
THING i literally want the same, thing BUT i watched
a lot with the celebrate experts That The independent did
the story With Heather barnhart and her, PARTNER i Think
Jared barnhart was his, name and they said That Brian

(01:19:15):
koberger took the time that he actually pressed the button
on the side of his phone to turn it, off
so it wasn't just that it was an airplane. Mode
he he Deactivated Wi fi and then he. Waited he
deactivated cellular and then he. Waited he went into airplane,
mode and then he, waited and then he physically turned
off the phone and it wasn't physically turned back on

(01:19:39):
until five something in the, morning after he had already
left the. House so as far as we, know he
never turned his phone on while he was in the.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Home this guy was such a clown, though because also
that same student we were speaking about earlier that was
in his. Class she shared, that, like one of the
very first things that was taught in that class that
he would is the teacher's assistant in it was a criminology.
Class like one of the first things they learned about
was having a digital footprint and how you would not

(01:20:08):
want to have a digital footprint when committing a. Crime
so why the, hell did he have his phone at?
All that's always been a hang up for. Me it
is such for me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
Too and maybe he was just on your phone. Home
maybe he wasn't planning on it that. Night maybe he
was a peeping tom and it just became not. Enough,
yeah that's my.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Theory also a little bit that it was more, spontaneous
otherwise he would have kept his phone at. Home but,
again a little unknowable because this guy won't give us any.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Details and it's, crazy. Man, yeah AND i think it's gonna.
CRY i think he's gonna want to. TALK i think
somebody's going to get to. HIM i don't know, who
BUT i hope that that somebody gets to him before
the prisoners.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Do and by the, way the prisoners have at it
and listen to our, Podcast The Idaho, Massacre season, Three
episode one drops this.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
Week oh this.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Week, yeah everyone on it is, here you, guys OK
tea players are at large and, yeah for the next twelve.
Weeks it's a ten week season and then there's two
bonus episodes where we have listener questions and. Interactions so
let's start stacking those. Up and, again this has been
an amazing Night joseph always when you were, Here good

(01:21:20):
luck at school this week and for all of those
who have kids, returning. Etc we're saying sending our love
and prayers and you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
Again be.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Safe this is my Stepdad. Elliott have a great. Show
this is true crime. Tonight we're talking true crime all the.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Time bath