Forensics Deep Dive: The Morning After the Idaho Student Murders, New “Fugitive Dad” Evidence, and a Wild Weekend of News

Forensics expert and Body Bags host Joseph Scott Morgan joins to break down newly unsealed information about the Idaho student murders—including body cam footage, a controversial DNA test, and a retracing of Bryan Kohberger’s steps through the victims’ house. Plus, what the recent mysterious Montauk yacht death could mean for prosecuting drug dealers, new evidence tied to “Fugitive Dad” Travis Decker, and the latest developments in the Menendez Brothers case. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lai Decker and I'm
here with crime analyst Body Movin as always, and.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Our very own Courtney Armstrong is back in the studio.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, applause, big applause, big applause, and listen. We have
a stacked night of headlines that we're going to unpack
with our very favorite forensics expert and host of the
podcast Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan is with us tonight
to unpack the latest in all of these unsealed documents
that we're seeing now in the Idaho massacre. Please check

(00:55):
out the podcast all these documents that have now been
released by law Enforce Number one, number two. This mystery
on the mon Talk Yachts. We talked about it a
bit last week. Joseph is here to break down some
more of the details as well as this Travis Decker
case which is a hideous one, and Joseph has some
forensics and information to discuss on that one as well.

(01:18):
It is scientific Sunday, everybody, so buckle up, we want
to hear from you. Please jump in join the conversation
eight eight eight three one crime, or catch us on
our socials at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram or
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could always leave us a talk back on our iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Just download it.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's free top right hand corner, press the button and boom,
you are on the show. We have so appreciated the
many messages that are coming in love it and you've
really been tipping us off to new cases.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
And listen. We named the TV Screening.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Documentary Club last week while you were going Courtney, so
buckle up, you got some watching to do and and
we hope you all had a wonderful weekend. Thank you
for spending your Sunday night with us. Let's make it count,
so ladies, Joseph welcome.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
We're always happy to have you.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Joseph my favorite night of the week, That's.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
And Joseph is back at school looking tan still And
by the way, Courtney Armstrong looking like the venus that
she is.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I know, and I'm like a lossy. I'm like, body,
you're perfect. But you know, Tan, we are not okay,
we are transient.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
He listen, sunscreen is not a bad thing, but boy,
compared to these two, we are really out to lunch. Anyway,
welcome back, court and listen, where should we begin. Let's
throw Courtney Armstrong up to the bat with a headline Yes.

Speaker 5 (02:49):
I'm so happy to be back, and of course we're
going to jump in with Gilaine Maxwell.

Speaker 6 (02:55):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
So, the Justice Department has begun releasing transcripts of interviews
with Glane Maxwell. This is the first wave of the
Epstein files that have been sent over to the House
Oversight Committee.

Speaker 6 (03:08):
So listen.

Speaker 5 (03:09):
This is following congressional subpoenas and a bunch of public pressure. Obviously,
this has been talked about, asked about, conspiracy, theorized about.
But these records they offer new insights into the network
of the high profile individuals who are linked to Epstein
and the ongoing probes into his crimes. So this will

(03:30):
be coming out for a while. This is the first
batch of thousands of pages of Epstein related documents from
the DOJ. Yeah, so hundreds of pages have come out.
These are redacted transcripts and the audio from the interview
with Gilane Maxwell by Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche In it,

(03:54):
this did not suppose a recent interviews.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
So the interview done like a week ago, you know,
So this is not the OG interviews perhaps, and obviously
we know the grand jury interview and anything that happened
in the Grand jury with the transcripts, et cetera that
has not been released. This is really her conversation a
little over a week ago, correct exactly.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
And of course Maxwell's legal team and sish every question
was answered truthfull lee and that she remains a scapegoat
in the epstein.

Speaker 6 (04:27):
That is what they are presenting.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
She did describe interactions with people such as Donald Trump
and Clinton, but denied witnessing any inappropriate conduct. So we'll
be hearing more this interview. It lasted two days and
we'll kind of see what keeps coming out. I don't know,
do you guys expect anything big?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes, I do, and I again I'm going to go
on recorder saying I think this is one of the
biggest pieces of information that we're lacking that of our time.
So I know this is becoming drum that I'm beating
way too hard. And it seems as though as of
this weekend, you know, Giles Maxwell had an interview and
it seemed like, yeah, she was like, by no means

(05:10):
have I ever seen anything nefarious with the Clintons or
Bill Clinton specifically, or you know, President Donald Trump, et cetera.
But remember she got a really sweet situation right after
this interview. She basically was transferred from her where she
had been residing in prison for sex offense charges, and

(05:32):
now she's in a very cushy one. So yeah, she
basically said she didn't see anything and that everybody did
everything correctly, and yeah, nothing to see here. But again,
she might as well have said, to the person who
may pardon me, they're wonderful. To the person who may
pardon me, I did nothing wrong. To the person who
may pardon me, it was excellent.

Speaker 7 (05:53):
The Clintons aren't aren't going to be involved in her
pardon and she said that they were great.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Right, Yeah, I mean maybe questionable.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I mean the amount of emails and hits that we
get on a daily basis about the Clinton's involvement in this,
it's pretty staggering.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Get we do.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I personally do as well. And you know,
I who knows, We don't know your speculation.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
They asked her specifically, what do you think about Jeffrey
Epstein's death? And that was for me from the forensics perspective. Sure,
she thinks that he was murdered, you know, yeah, and
you know, and the other thing is she actually did
a little arithmetic in this thing. She actually said, well,
anybody in prison can be killed for commissary, you know,

(06:46):
whatever is available. So I think that, you know, do
you think that Jeffrey Epstein was killed and without hesitation?
You know? She she said, yeah, I do. So I
found that I found that to be kind of interesting
because that's kind of the angle that I coming all
of this from forensically, because I don't I don't buy
everything in the add tops sport that's what you're selling.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, I mean hard.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
It justifies a lot of the basic principles you know,
that that we learn in medical legal death investigations. So
I don't know, I found that I found that kind
of interesting.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
On my end, I thought it was an interesting toss
something to the wolves, right. It was like, oh, look, listen,
to this interview that you know, shows Gilaine herself saying, look,
how transparent we're all being internally here saying to you know,
Pambondi's number two that you know, nobody did anything wrong.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
It was all actually all good in the hood.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
And I think we all have a hard time believing
that the Clinton stuff, I mean, we have to imagine
that there seems to be logs and planes and things
that have happened. So for the tune to completely change
is interesting because it also worked.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
You know, she was transferred very.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Quickly thereafter to a low security prison, whether that was
because of President Donald Trump, whether that was because of
first Lady, you know, Milania Trump has been kind of
brought into this conspiracy theories only the Clinton's always being
associated with this in some degree. So again it's not
political because it's a pox on many houses. But yeah,

(08:20):
it seems like a change of tail. At one point,
Let's be real, she was convicted by a federal judge
that you know, she was convicted of sex crimes, and
suddenly we're like, oh, maybe not so much. And listen
to this little transcript from you know, just a few
days ago when she was hoping to get a pardon

(08:40):
and probably would say whatever she would have to is
my personal opinion. Come for me if you will, But
I think I'm not alone in this. It all feels
a little fishy sure, and continues to feel fishy like
even as we get more information. It seems so hyper
produced and not the information, and that we're all craving

(09:01):
which is this either said client list or whatever happened
back in the day, not back when Gilaine Maxwell wanted
to part in ten days ago.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (09:12):
So well, we're going to continue to follow this. I'm
sure Stephanie is definitely going to keep her finger on
the pulse of what's happening in the Gallaine Maxwell document release.
This is True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio on Body Moved,
and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie Leidecker, and we
are so thankful to be joined by Joseph Scott Morgan,
a forensics expert for our scientific Sunday Deep Dive. And

(09:33):
in many different cases, I have an update on Emmanuel Harrow.
So we mentioned this last week. We covered this last
week the missing seven month old. The mother said she
was attacked basically at a Big five store in Versaide, County, California,
and they were arrested for his murder on Friday.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Now, so that's not.

Speaker 7 (09:55):
A good turn of events, right, But I think we
all kind of suspected but she was maybe fibbing about
her story. It didn't make a lot of sense. And
you know, she said that a man basically attacked her
and said oh lah to her, you know, implying that
was some kind of you know, Spanish speaking person that
took their child. And there there was no evidence of

(10:16):
any of those things happening while they were arrested on Friday.
So Jacob Rebecca Harrow, they arrested on Friday at their
home on suspicion of murder. The investigator spent hours and
hours and hours searching the home and like the surrounding land, yeah,
big time, and they seized some vehicles. A manual remains missing,
but authorities do believe he has passed. What's kind of

(10:39):
interesting about this too, and it kind of reminds me
a little bit of, you know a little bit of
Casey Anthony, a little bit that it's being reported that
nobody has actually seen a manual for quite some time,
so like a month or more. So it is possible
that maybe am Manuel's passing happened a while ago, and
they took the opportunity recently to report it, you know,

(11:02):
quote unquote for whatever reason to the authorities, and came
up with the scheme that he was kidnapped from a
Big five store.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's so sickening. By the way, it kind of also
reminds me of you know, Lori Valo that to Doomsday
Mom and you know that creep of a husband, Dave
Bell of hers, because again they were like, oh, yeah,
she was just here, and that it had been a
very long time that her children had been seen and
in this case a month.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
That's like, that's not hideous.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
It's not the exact amount of time, but it wasn't
you know, four days ago. You know, this was probably
longer than anticipated. And it's really horrifying.

Speaker 7 (11:39):
So today, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office, I think
I might have said Riverside County earlier.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
My mistake.

Speaker 7 (11:46):
That's in relation to something else, but I'll get to
that in a second. The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office
said today this afternoon, a search for Emmanuel Harrow was
conducted along the westbound Shoulder of the sixty Freeway near
Gilman Springs Road in Marino Valley. Investigators were assisted by
kadaver dogs. Jay Carrow was at the location with detectives,

(12:07):
so the dad was on site along the freeway to
telling them something. Right, and everyone is assuming maybe some
kind of dump sight, right, but the search has concluded
and Emmanuel was not located, is what the sand Ordino
kind of Shriff's office. But there's a separate recent child

(12:27):
abuse investigation happening in Marino Valley that has been eyed
to this and details. They have not got any details
on what those investigative details are, but you know, it
is kind of interesting a separate home in Marino Valley
tied to this.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
I can I tell you real quickly what this case
smacks up with me is Harmony Montgomery.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Oh god, we just forgot about Harmony for a moment.
That's so right.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Tonight is scientific Sunday, So of course we have forensics
expert in star of the podcast Body Bags Man. He
does a lot of these body bags. If you haven't
heard the podcast yet, please check it out. It's brilliant
and you're so good, Joseph. So we're so happy that
you're here. Always with some torrid tales to tell. We

(13:24):
were just really talking about these recent developments in this
hideous case in California, and you had been mentioning go ahead,
I won't get the words right out of your mouth.

Speaker 6 (13:33):
Go ahead.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
We didn't mean to cut the case dropped into my lap.
In a shout out to my friends at Core TV,
I covered it. I don't know, for weeks we covered
this over and over, just looking for this baby.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
And Joseph, can you remind me what the Montgomery case is?

Speaker 4 (13:51):
Yeah, Harmony. Harmony lived with her, was existing with her dad,
Adam Montcomy, and they were essentially living life. Now. If
you can imagine this in New Hampshire in the wintertime
in a convertible Chrysler Sea Breen, if you can just
imagine that he hit her regularly. This poor little girl

(14:12):
was blind in one eye already and had to wear
corrective lenses, and she had apparently had an accident in
the back seat and he struck her, and he made
some kind of off handed comment. It's like, I think I
really hurt her this time. The next thing you know,
he puts her into a Duffel bag or a gym bag,
and as they migrate around five years old. Yeah, and

(14:36):
completely depended upon help to exist. And she was actually
her remains were actually being hit in ceiling tiles. He
actually took her work where he was working in a
restaurant adjacent He put her in the cooler in there
for a time. And I'm not going to go into
the rest of grizzly details, but we believe that she
was finally deposited probably in the saltwater marshes around outside

(15:00):
of Revere, Massachusetts, across state lines in order to facilitate this.
He's off the street, he's in prison. But we still
don't know where harmony is. And that's that's my feeling
with this. This precious baby a manual you know where
is Is this going to be another Harmony Montgomery case?
And I find it very interesting. You guys had mentioned

(15:22):
they had the dad out there.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
They did today.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
That's a fascinating bit. You know, you don't see that
a lot.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
They're turning on each other.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
Yeah, I agree. Stuff, Oh, I think mom.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
And dad are done tho. They are turning on each
other and fighting for their lives. This is when it happened.

Speaker 7 (15:39):
Well, dad has a really bad history with it, does
he abused his daughter and she's you know, permanently disabled now.
And you know, she showed up at the hospital when
she was just a little baby with broken ribs and
a hematoma, and like now she's blind and completely dependent
on her aunt who is lovingly taking care of her.

(16:00):
And you know, and it's just very sad. I don't
know that we're ever going to find Emmanuel.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (16:06):
And you know what's weird about that too, what I
found out today too. Apparently the police in the Emmanuel
horror case, they left the crime scene, well what they
think is a crime scene, and you know, they're looking
for Emmanuel, and a bunch of TikTokers and YouTubers just
went into the house and started filming inside the house, which,
by the way, should be a crime scene.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, and take off by the way. Yeah, why is
that even possible? How is that even possible that somebody
could just roam right in there, not just somebody, a
lot of people. Wow, Wow, that's going to be incredible.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
And what do you guys think of this?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, obviously the Menendez brothers not just switch gears,
but you know, big developments there. You know, we broke
it here on Thursday that you know, Eric Menandez was
denied parole, which was very unexpected by many, and since
then on Friday, Lyle Menendez also has been denied. We're
going to do a very big unpath that tomorrow will

(17:01):
have Robert Rand back, who is the person who a
journalist wrote the book, wrote did the documentary, was there
from day one and you know, was with them through
this process. So there's plenty to talk about tomorrow, but
we just wanted to make sure that everybody was aware
of that new development.

Speaker 7 (17:19):
Right, So they've both been to night parole and they
can reapply in what three years.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
I think three.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Years is a long time if we were planning to
be home for Thanksgiving.

Speaker 7 (17:29):
Well, I mean we're learning some information about some of
the things that they were doing in prison from the
parole board hearing, and you know, they weren't apparently these
perfect little angels that we've been hearing about.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
We will get into all of that tomorrow and I'm
excited too with Robert Rand for sure, to dig.

Speaker 6 (17:45):
Into the details.

Speaker 5 (17:47):
One other headline that hit my desk was about Martha
Nolan Oslaterra's. Yeah, she was the one who was found
dead on the Hampton jat So New York police they're
investigating drug dealers, and this is after her death has
been very mysterious. She was discovered unconscious on this yacht

(18:07):
in Montalk. That happened on August fifth. She was pronounced
dead and the toxicology reports are not in and could
be a long way.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
From now, months, three months from now possibly.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
Which you know, and actually we wanted to ask you
about that, Joseph. I don't know how it could be
so long. And one other thing is that apparently that
while these results are waiting to come in, authorities are
potentially pursuing people who may have supplied drugs linked to
her death.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Which is huge, Like that's a really big ticket item.
By the way, So whether she was given drugs and
she was not aware of it, perhaps she was straight
up drugged and something was laced, but you know, just
to kind of reset the story was that she who
lives in New York typically, she was out on Montalk,

(18:59):
which is a very beautiful JEGI place on Long Island,
the very eastern tip, and she called her boyfriend, who
was out of town on business, basically told him that
she was leaving and hopping into an uber and heading
home after a business meeting, and then she turns up dead.
And she had been on this yacht with a man
who was basically screaming naked, running from the yacht begging

(19:24):
for help. He had apparently given two hundred thousand dollars
to her to invest in her company. The company, by
the way, is no joke. It's like a real swimwear company.
She has her masters. She's from Ireland, about like, you know,
ninety miles or so outside of Dublin.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
She has now lost her life.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Her family is begging for a second autopsy even before
the toxicology report comes in, which could take months.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
And yeah, this.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Has like some larger nefarious details to it if in fact,
what Joseph had mentioned to us even last week that
maybe there was a b picture of drugs involved in
kind of a little bit like the Matthew Perry case
that we talked about, you know, where the ketamine queen
is kind of going down for supplying the lethal dose

(20:13):
that killed friend star of Matthew Perry. We also saw
that in the Kansas Chiefs. Remember there was that story
that we had told once before where buddies were outside celebrating.
They were Kansas chief fans Am I right about that.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
Yep, that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
And like there were buds and they were in the
backyard and it was winter, and I guess they were
given drugs that had fentanyl in it and then they
passed out and died in the snow. And now the
person who supplied them is has been you know, found
and is up against some serious charges. And I guess
you know, Joseph, I assume that's where you're thinking this

(20:47):
may be heading.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 4 (20:48):
Joseph, Yeah, I think that it is. And let me
throw one more thing into the mix. Here we're waiting
on talks. Here's something else I'm fascinating by. There were
two boats. You had Ripple, which she was on. They're
moored adjacent to one another, and then you had Helen.

(21:08):
A bucket was the other one. The hell in a
bucket looks to me it looked more like a vessel
that you would go offshore with and fish. The other one,
Ripple is more of a luxury kind of thing. At
any rate, I want to know what happened to the vessels.
I want to know who has those in their possession?
Are they going through them? No? Pun intended from stem
to stern and taking this thing apart. I want to

(21:31):
know what is in those non seen places. Have they
issued a warrant on those boats, taking them apart and
looked all the way through them? Because yes, the information
that talks will provide is going to be essential because
we can identify the specific agent that she has in
her system if it's co mingled with anything. A lot
of the dealers now, and you guys know this, it's

(21:53):
like I'm preaching the choir, but you've got a lot
of the dealers. They put bits of fentanyl in co
for instance, because it gives it more of a euphoric feeling,
gets the individual to want to come back for more.
And it's a horrible thing because fennyl is so incredibly lethal.
Well that's important, but also how did they get their

(22:14):
hands on it? Have any other drugs pass through this area?
The space, the space, it's all about the seeing, guys,
It's not just the body. The space is just as
important as the body. Not to diminish this precious woman,
but that space. If you want to tell the tale,
I want to know what was going on in on
hell in the bucket. I want to know what was
going on in Ripple and they're going to go through

(22:36):
this thing hopefully, hopefully they're in the possession of the authorities.
What struck me about this and what really got my
attention is that this isn't just the locals investigating this.
They put together a task force which actually involves the
New York State Police. I got to tell you where
Jason International Waters. I would not be surprised to see

(23:00):
the FEDS get involved in this. Coast guard.

Speaker 7 (23:03):
Is this yacht club? Does it have I'm not familiar
with the geography of Long Island. Does it have access
to the Atlantic Ocean?

Speaker 8 (23:11):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (23:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, It's.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Like is the Atlantic essentially?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
I just wasn't And it's like, this is the really
like prestigious fancy spots Number one. It's about three three
and a half hours depending upon traffic from New York
City and socialites, very influential people from New York City.
They go there for the weekend and you know there's
you know, parties. This was where the infamous white parties
like that Whole Vibe, Oh that particular club, the mon Talk,

(23:39):
you know where this happened. This is really high profile
and it's completely on the water. And what's being speculated.
And I think, Joseph, this is what you're leading to,
is is it possible that one of these two boats
was you know, was maybe shipping drugs or was there
larger there. We are not saying that is the case.
This is just the chatter. And yeah, suff a county

(24:00):
police department. They're leaving no stone unturned, but they're also
calling in additional dogs from New York City. And to
your point, Joseph, it seems like that is getting pretty big.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Very quickly. Not going away.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Is the naked guy running through the you know, running
down the street, begging for help, saying his girlfriend is
you know, being unresponsive?

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Are his girlfriend?

Speaker 4 (24:25):
And not his girlfriend? No, not his girlfriend, not this
other thing. He's nude and she's clothed from what we're
hearing at least, So what's up with that dynamic. It's
a bizarre set of circumstances. And you know, we were
talking about this earlier today. No, there is not an
illicit agent out there that I would recommend anybody touching

(24:45):
with their bare hands. Okay, we have these horror stories
of these four police officers that go to serve a
warrant somewhere open up a trunk of a car and
a cloud a fentyl dust comes down. It is dentyl
is in fact transdermal, so that means you can touch it.
I wonder if that's what happened with her.

Speaker 5 (25:00):
Listen, There's a lot to dig into, and we will
continue in following this as it evolves, and coming up,
we are going to have the latest with Brian Koberger
and the recent bodycam footage.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Keep it here True Crime tonight. Joseph, thank you for
breaking this down for us. We've gotten a lot of
emails and listener call ins and stuff just about whether

(25:31):
or not fentanyl. You know, again, we don't know the
specifics here. Her toxicology report has not come back. It
will take several weeks, if not months. Her family is
claiming that drugs were not in her life, and they're
demanding a second autopsy even before the toxicology comes back.
And I just think it's worth kind of underscoring because

(25:53):
this is scary stuff. I still don't totally understand why
fentanyl is in everything, Like, what's the upside? If you're
even a drug dealer, why would you be lacing things
with ventanyl? It doesn't totally make sense, But we do
know it's very, very deadly, and there's been a lot
of back and forth about can.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
You, you know, breathe it in?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Is something like a cloud of ventanyl something that could
be lethal. And you mentioned it in the break Joseph,
that even meth you know, by touch, could actually have
real effects.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah, it is, And it's something that shouldn't be poyed
with period into paragraph. You know, the fact that anyone
would go in and there they're actually I actually saw
a Rookie police officer one day pick up and this
is at the scene of a homicide pickup packs of
meth and was handling them bare handed, and then he

(26:49):
touches his face after he does this, and we ask
him to leave immediately from the scene. So I have
a real problem with anybody that wants to get into
semantics when it comes to illicit substances. I think that
you should be terrified of it. I mean, look, if
you want to run the risk of it and you
want to have an argument and a debate about it,

(27:12):
fine knock yourself out. But I got to tell you
I wouldn't spread that information around saying that it's not transdermal,
and I know the patches are different, but let's understand
Fentnall's first first administered through transdermal patches. All right, So
we need to be very very careful. Anybody that thinks
that it's around you need to take care. We had

(27:33):
these kids that died in this nursery thing and you
know in New York last year, they're crawling along the floor,
you know, little hands, touching your mouth, touching your face.
They died. They died in that house. So I don't know.
You can run the risk if you if you want to,
I'm advising nobody should run the risk.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah anything, Well no, but even like you say that, Joseph,
you know that example you just gave of touching meth
with bare hands and then touching your face. What does
that mean, Like by touching your face, it could what happens.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Yes, transdermal, So it's absorbed through the skin and it goes,
it goes, It is absorbed and it's metabolized at that
point in time. So it's not the same as if
you ingest it necessarily, but you're running a risk. Okay,
you won't get as high dosage necessarily, but as if
you've dropped it directly into your mouth, but it's still
a risky behavior. And plus if you have underlying medical

(28:31):
conditions or if you're little, if you're a child, you
know it can be very lethal. I mean you might run.
You might have better luck being in a room with
a rattlesnake as opposed to this stuff. Because you don't
know where it's being made. It's being made all over
the world. You don't know what the formula is, so
some can certainly be more toxic than others. We've seen

(28:54):
that played out in the medical legal world. So you
need to take care. And at the end of the day,
as far as Montalk is concerned, I'm still interested what
she had in her system. I don't know that it
was fentanyl, but could it be and how did she
get it on board? And if it is there, we'll
find out when the talk drops, and it will take

(29:15):
some time because.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
It does seem like everybody I've heard from who has
had any experience in law enforcement always say that cocaine,
any of the drugs of yesteryear, they're all seemingly laced
with fentanyl. Like it's not the time to play, it's
not the time to experiment. Like those days are done,
and I don't know that people really understand it, don't.

Speaker 7 (29:38):
They sell those ventanyl test strips now on like Amazon
and listen, if you're going to be, you know, messing around,
I don't think you should. But if you do have
a problem, they do sell those test strips now where
you can test substances.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
I know that sounds crazy, but no, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
I don't want to people no drinking out of solo
cups anywhere at any time to any college student people
are going back to school. That cannot be underscored enough either.
But to that end, if you had fentanyl, does what
is it narco? What is it called that narkhan narcn
does narcan save a person on fentanyl?

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Uh? It would depend upon how quickly you can dose
them with it.

Speaker 7 (30:18):
Yeah, I'd think a couple of shots might save somebody's life.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
Right if if, if you have it available, and you
know most most police officers have access to it now
because this is such an insidious problem, just frame frame
it out this way. You've got such an insidious problem
in this country with this particular drug that now police
officers are having to carry narcan. This is something that

(30:43):
would have been twenty years ago, unheard of, absolutely unheard of.
This is the world that we're in now with this
poison that is everywhere.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
Well said, well scary stuff. Well listen, this is true
crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio. This is are no
joke PSA of the night. Be careful out there, careful,
dangerous world. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm here as always with
Buddy Movin and Stephanie Leidecker, and of course we have
forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan who is regalling us with

(31:15):
all of this wonderful forensic and scientific information. We are
going to pivot to talk about the Idaho student murder
case and everything that has been going on. We want
you to join the conversation. It is on the talkback,
So give us a call eighty eight three to one
Crime and we have a talkback right now.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Hi, ladies, it's Leah in Australia.

Speaker 9 (31:37):
I've started watching The Son of Sam Taps and it's
just infuriating to me because I can see the parallels
with Brian karen Berger. How you know, forty years later,
we're still facing the same issues around misogyny and these
guys that appear angry. How are we not doing more
about it? If we can track terror cells, why can't

(31:59):
we track these guys to day and age?

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Isn't that the truth? Well?

Speaker 7 (32:04):
So Son of Sam, by the way, is our first
watch party documentary to watch right for our true crime
and chill on Wednesdays.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
I think we're going to be doing it.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
So this Wednesday, we all have to watch Son of
Sam on Netflix by Wednesday to thoughtfully participate in the discussion. Joseph,
will you be watching as well? I assume I already
started not to be a show off.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
But I'm knee deep. I'm knee deep, so I'm looking
to be the star pupil.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
This you are, you are already ahead of the curve.

Speaker 7 (32:39):
Okay, So I haven't started watching it yet, but you know,
our talk back mentioned that there was correlations between David Berkowitz,
who is the son of Sam, and he was a
serial killer out of New York in the late seventies
I think it was late seventies, any and there's correlations
between him and Brian Coberger. I didn't know that. Well,
there's person.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
That's what I mean in our caller is completely right
because by the way, Australia.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
I shout out way to go, shout out to Australia
as a whole. By the way as a whole.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
But it's true, like from a personality perspective, it's undeniable
that there is some crossover. By the way, unfun facts,
Courtney Armstrong's beloved mom was pregnant with Courtney during this
Son of Sam time in Queens, New York. It's right,
you know, so first we should have her on to
talk about it. Betty on Wednesday? Is Betty available on Wednesday?

(33:32):
Can we book her?

Speaker 5 (33:34):
Not for that late at night? Absolutely? Betty goes to
bed at about eight thirty, Betty, can we make so
we might sort something out. Let's see, let's snuck it out.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
Let's talk about row. You wrote out the Great Blackout.

Speaker 6 (33:47):
Yeah, but that's right.

Speaker 5 (33:49):
So yeah, my mom, it was wild that just blackouts
and brownouts that all summer. And it was right in Queens.
It was hot, so everyone was out on there. We
were always everyone out on their stoop and Queens and
so there anyway, everyone was just out Sam excited.

Speaker 7 (34:07):
I'm excited to learn more about Son of Sam. I mean,
I know, like the bare minimum of David Berkowitz, you know,
like the talking dog. He was saying that, you know,
he's this dog was telling him to do it, and
you know he was the devil or something and.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
It is.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, sit down something like that.

Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
I was like before he was called the son of Sam.
No what forty four caliber killer caliber bulldog. Yeah, that's right, revolver.

Speaker 7 (34:34):
Yeah right, Well it's going to be it's going to
be a good it's going to be a good watch.
I can't wait to learn more about it. And hopefully
Courtney Betty will be available because that would.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Be quite It's time. It's going to be a late night.
But let's rally.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
And by the way, it's.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Sunday night, guys, Like, what is happening you guys haven't
even started the watch party yet.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Well, we have a couple of nights.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
I know, I'm behind the curve.

Speaker 7 (34:58):
I get one day all the way.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
How can I work in these conditions? So do I
I have no days.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Off this week, but I'm making it a priority.

Speaker 7 (35:06):
I'm lazy and I slept.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
I slept all day yesterday.

Speaker 7 (35:10):
I'm using Sundays for sleeping and I went in my
nails today so I had so time.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
They look really beautiful. Oh beautiful, beautiful.

Speaker 7 (35:19):
So I just haven't had time yet, but I'm going
to turn it on tomorrow. And I don't know, are
we watching the all episodes? Is that what you're doing?
This was your idea? I know, But why did I
spend my weekend doing this? Well, because you're a.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Supporter, right and head of the class which one time
of Star Pupil one time Joseph and by the Star
Pupil this one time, yes, on Sunday night. Okay, Well,
moving on to more, you know, more pertinent things back
I guess to this Idaho.

Speaker 7 (35:51):
Well, I've only got a minute left, so I don't
really you know, I can't.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
There's not a lot I can say.

Speaker 7 (35:56):
But what I am going to be talking about next
I can tell you that is, we got some details
about some of the testing that the Idaho State Police
did to determine how long it would have taken to
Committee's killings, and the path he took throughout the house,
which we already knew about the path, but we're going
to go over it anyway because there might be people
new to the case that might not know. So we're

(36:19):
going to dig into the path he took throughout the
house and the testing that the Idaho State Police did
to determine if it could be ton in the thirteen
minutes that he was in the house, and the answer
is yes, it could.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
It's staggering information coming up. Yeah, oh man, you pack
the body cam footage too.

Speaker 6 (36:37):
Yeah, it's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (36:39):
And we are also going to be discussing potentially why
he was in the house longer than necessary. That something
people are battering about. We would love you to join
the conversation eight at eight three, One Crime, Keep it here,
True Crime tonight.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Let's go to a talk back right now.

Speaker 8 (36:58):
Hey, y'all, this is Sylvia again from I am listening
to the replay of last night's show, and I just
have to give you guys major props for handling all
of that breaking news just coming at you in every direction.
You handled it with so much grace and poise and
just mastered it. It's already hard what you guys do,
so I can't imagine having all of that information thrown

(37:20):
at you at once. So I just want to give
you major props. I am such a huge fan, so
thank you for all you do.

Speaker 7 (37:26):
That's okay, body who paid her?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, I got. That was so kind.

Speaker 7 (37:33):
I am that was a wild night, that was it was.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
That was a crazy night.

Speaker 6 (37:37):
You guys handling it wonderfully.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
That was night. But thank you so much for that
talk back. That was so hotful.

Speaker 7 (37:44):
I have imposter syndrome pretty terribly, we all, I mean
like pretty terribly. And you know I am not an
expert in anything.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
So stop saying that is so untrue.

Speaker 7 (37:56):
Well know what I mean is I know a lot
about a ton of stuff, but not an expert anything.
I'm not downing myself. I'm just saying, like, it's nice
to be complimented because I have a little bit of
imposter syndrome, so that means a lot to me.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Thank you. Yeah, for real, I'm not even kidding. We
went to sleep that night. We were both like it
was a fever dream.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
I don't know what just happened, but that was a
two hour blink of hopefully, you know, hopefully.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
So yeah, thank you for the thoughtful note.

Speaker 7 (38:23):
No, that was really nice. I mean there was a
lot going on at the Menendez. We had the Menendas
that was the thing, and then we had the Idaho
bodycam footage and we got you know, like three hundred
more pictures.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
From Ida pictures are really I gotta be honest, those
pictures are troubling.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I don't know where I sit with this. Listen.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
I'm very close to this case, like everyone on this
panel is. Please, I hope you'll listen to the podcast
The Idaho Massacre of season three. Everyone here is also
on it and does extraordinary reporting and work.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
But we're close to it, right.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
So on the one hand, you want to see everything,
and I'm somebody who's curious, so I always I know,
I'm not particularly squeamish either, So autopsy photos, crime scene photos,
you know, we see so many of them, and it
doesn't usually stop me in my tracks. And for I
don't know if it's because the family has some reservations
about it. I'm not sure. It almost felt like a

(39:21):
snuff film to me. It was actually triggering and too much,
and I felt like I was seeing things or have
now seen all the things that I'm kind of not.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Sure that I should have.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
So I say that out loud to listeners too, like
you know, tread lightly on that.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, No, that's a good.

Speaker 7 (39:40):
It's really good because you know some people will be,
you know, emotionally affected by these pictures right, and I
think all of us have in some way been emotionally effective.
And you know, the family of Matty Mogan and I
believe of Ethan Chapin's family have filed an injunction related

(40:00):
to those pictures of you know, the privacy concerns in
regards to Maddie's room, in Zanna's room. So the photos
that we and the body cam footage did a really
good job of not showing anything gruesome at all. And
I and I kind of wonder in the back of
my mind that this is going to change the way

(40:20):
the public gets informed about these these these kinds of things,
because normally we've we've gotten full pictures right in a
lot of different cases. And this injunction, this injunction might
change things, and it might change the way true crime
is handled when it comes to digital evidence in digital
media that we get.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
I agree, I agree completely. A big case that changed
a lot of the stuff was in Florida was the
Dale Earnhardt case. His wife fought tooth and nail to
keep all of that data out of the public sphere.
And that's how to ripple effect.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Not to switch gears to more hideous thoughts, but you know, listen,
there's a couple of big ticket things that have happened
over the weekend. We know that since we've all spoken
last Lyle Menendez, the second brother, was also denied parole
and pretty major. We're going to unpack that in a
very big way tomorrow when Robert Rant joins us again
to discuss sort of what is happening in this Menndez case.

(41:27):
And then Courtney, what did you want to jump to?

Speaker 5 (41:29):
So first of all, it's a trigger warning, so we're
about to speak about some of specificity with violence against children.
So if that is a trigger for you, or if
there are young children in your presence, it's a good
time to turn it down for a couple of minutes.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
This should have been turned down a while ago.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
Well children, yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Probably turned down.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
This is particularly extra terrible. But this, yeah, again, so
trigger warning, violence against children. So we haven't followed this
case since its inception, and that is with Travis Decker.
And Travis Decker is the US Army veteran. He's been
accused of murdering his three young daughters and that happened

(42:12):
at a campsite, a remote campsite back in June. Despite
all this intensive looking for him, state, local, federal agencies.
There are no leads right now of where he could be.
So there is new DNA evidence and new information from
the crime scene that ties fugitive father Travis Decker as

(42:35):
the solo suspect in the murder of his three daughters.
And we're going to let our forensic expert Joseph Scott
Morgan give a little more detail.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Yeah, this information dropped this past week and it really
caught my attention because they were talking about DNA deposition
and this is not, in my opinion, just merely touched DNA.
All right, where are you get skin cells that slough
off that sort of thing? For me, they had it
sounded as though that they had a robust sampling, and

(43:07):
that means I think, in my opinion, this could come
from maybe sweat. Perhaps I'm not really sure, but that's
that's what I'm betting on. They found his DNA, Decker's
DNA directly on zip ties that had been used to
bind these precious little babies. Let that sink in. And

(43:28):
they also found DNA on these bags that were the
actual method of homicide here. And this is an oxygen
deprivation death. These bags were apparently placed over these babies heads.

(43:52):
Two of the children had been double bag, a third
was triple bag. And they found more these bags at
the scenes. And I get the impression from what I'm
hearing that these are like plastic shopping bags, and as
any of us can identify with structurally, most of them
are garbage. You know you if you you'll they split

(44:14):
really easy. And so this goes to I think, because
he was using multiple bags, he's thinking about this. He's
he's saying, how can I most efficiently do this? So
he's like layering the bags. Now, where's the DNA come from? Well,
I think he's probably sweating profusely and he's having to
specifically contact these bags to hold them in place after

(44:35):
they've been bound. This is what I want everybody to do.
Think about if you've ever had something that may be
lost in your throat and you're trying to clear your airway,
natural response is to bring your hands up to your face.
These babies were incapable of doing that. They're bound, So
this is yeah, because they're they're they're they're not capable

(45:00):
of doing that. So I don't know if he I
have no idea what this person was thinking, if he
thought he was going to be merciful, that this was
going to this was not in any way that there
have been people that have been tortured in this method
over the years. And one interesting thing is that with
his background in the military, he should have knowledge of this,

(45:24):
particularly if he had ever gone through like scaping in
invasion training where they put you in a situation where
you're a pow. He knows this because in that training
you're bound. Sometimes they'll put bags over your head and
so that that kicks it up to another level here.
So if you think about being in a small space

(45:47):
and you're you have breathed up all of the oxygen
in that small space, you begin to rebreathe or take
in your own carbon dioxide and it's toxic and Telly god,
I don't I think that there would have been a
mighty struggle on these four angels. Well, that would have taken.

Speaker 7 (46:07):
Place, and you know, not to only not to only
drive the horror home. But that does this mean that
the other sisters saw also?

Speaker 4 (46:18):
That's yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, no,
it does mean.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
That kind of like Chris Watts, that's exactly.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
What it means exactly like, you don't do this.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Three at a time. And again, this was a veteran
who was dealing with mental illness. The fact that his
mother has to actually know these details is also so
disgusting and it's awful, awful, like what happened to this person?
Like they were in a co parenting scenario that was working.
He was not living in a place that was safe.

(46:47):
Mom raised her hand and really said she felt like
her kids were not going to be in good care.
And she got a big zero. And these are the
details that we're hearing right now. And I don't know,
I just whatever reason, it's upset.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
It's a hitting upsetting.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
And can I just say one little thing about him
in this This takes me back in time. I was
part of the investigation in the Olympic Park bombing and
back in the Olympics in nineteen ninety six in Atlanta,
and I worked the one direct blast fatality that we had.
She was a school teacher and I was vested in

(47:23):
that case from the crime scene to the more relative
to her, I'll never forget. Her name is Alice Hawthorne.
And the reason this parkens me back to that time
is that Eric Rudolf fled after that, and I'm an
army veteran, all right, He's an army veteran. This guy's

(47:43):
apparently an army veteran. And Eric Rudolf eluded for almost
five years. He was in the Blue Rich Mountains. He
was actually when they discovered him. He was digging in
a dumpster in a North Carolina out behind a North
Carolina convenience store. And it was a country deputy that
found him that night. So there's a lot of people

(48:04):
saying they think that Decker is dead. Maybe he is.
I have no idea, but.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
He was also planning to go to Canada and that's
probably where he is.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
And if he's at large and still alive, then he's
extremely dangerous because he's off of his medication. He had
been diagnosed with several things. He was not taking his medication,
which may have been part of the problem. Certainly does
not have access to that any longer. His poor sweet mother,
the mother who basically did everything by the book, had
to get up there and give a eulogy about her

(48:36):
three beauty no her the children's mother. I'm her first name.
It's a snaping rate net right now. But if you
listen to her eulogy. It is like the image of
bravery and class and elegance, and there is no greater sorrow,
and still he's this guy. There's no answers, and in fact,

(48:57):
there's only more nightmares being added to that.

Speaker 7 (49:00):
Yes, right, well, you know this, Hopefully we get some
kind of ending to this. Hopefully Travis Decker is apprehended
and punished for his crimes. You know, I hate to
think that he's just out there living life, right and
after doing this to these poor kids.

Speaker 5 (49:16):
The US Marshals, the US Marshall Service is offering a
reward of up to twenty thousand dollars for any new
information that could lead to this man, Travis Decker's arrest.

Speaker 7 (49:28):
So yeah, follow that on Twitter, get his picture, burn
it into your mind. If you see him, call the authorities.
You're listening to True Crime Tonight, where we talk true
crime all the time. I'm body moving and I'm here
with Stephanie Leid Decker, Courtney Armstrong and our favorite forensic expert,
Joseph Scott Morgan, and we've been talking about Travis Decker.
We're going to shift a little bit because that is

(49:49):
just so depressing, right, we're all kind of just like
now we're down to the dumps and we're gonna take
a talk back.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Let's let's hit it up.

Speaker 10 (49:55):
Hey girl, Oh, I'm marching be body cam footage that
talked about, and I had question why the roommate waited
so long to call the police. Like I'm only on
like a minute eight of this video, but she's saying

(50:17):
that she heard someone, she saw someone screaming, crying. I
still don't understand why she did not call the police immediately.
I don't know if you know anything about that.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
I can take that.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
I mean, listen, it's a little bit speculative, right, and
body you jump in right after because I think you
know again, this is also one of those bodycam pieces
that I wish I hadn't seen. It's so real and
almost too hard to wrap your brain around this the
everyone's realizing things for the very first time.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
My interpretation of the bodycam footage.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
So we should discuss this is that the surviving roommate
and we know this. You know, they had heard stuff.
They were a little spooked. But again, this was a
really active house. It's it's feet from a fraternity house, right,
there's houses on top of houses. You know, you're not
the one that's always going to be calling the comps
because you hear noises in the house when there's in

(51:17):
and out traffic. Dogs, This parties keep heads sliding doors,
big doors, staircases. Like it's one of those houses that
you get accustomed to hearing sounds.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Right, So we know that.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
The two surviving roommates were a little spooked and they
went to sleep, and maybe they were realizing it all
real time. After the fact, you're like, oh my god, right,
I did see it, guy, Oh my goodness. I yeah,
he was in black and oh, you know, I think
we're seeing her realizing things real full time. And it's

(51:50):
actually like it kind of also, I'm sorry to get weird.
It kind of was hard for me to watch entirely
because you could hear it, like she it's sinking in.
It's like somighty sense of like hours prior which to
answer their question is it's a tough one, right, Like yeah,
you think they're not beating themselves up the survivor's guilt

(52:10):
of this, Yeah, Like they probably had that feeling and
like so many of us ignore it and just wish
it away.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Oh it's nothing.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
That's silly, don't That's exactly what Bethany said Dylan.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Dylan is so upsetting.

Speaker 7 (52:24):
Dylan is saying, I saw this guy, you know, and
and Bethany in the text messages is literally talking her
out of it, like Xana was wearing all black. And
then Bethany in the Idaho State Police reports, we know
Bethany tells the police, Yeah, I told Dylan she probably
imagined it exactly.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
You know.

Speaker 7 (52:41):
So they're not going to they're not going to bed
on the first floor thinking that their roommates have been murdered. No,
they're thinking they've been drinking and hallucinating, and when they
wake up and nobody's answering, they're they're like, oh my god,
wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Exactly even in the morning, they're texting them like are
you up?

Speaker 6 (52:56):
Are you up? Are you up?

Speaker 3 (52:57):
They don't think they're dead.

Speaker 6 (52:58):
You don't.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Your brain does not go to, oh, my family's being
murdered or my best friends are being slaughtered right now.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
It's not the obvious next connective dot. You know, you're
thinking they're partying and drinking and like maybe they're hooking
up or there's some random guy that's like, we're in
a weird costume, they're in college, they're in a party environment.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Oh yeah, I got to say about this stuff. You
and I have worked together for a long time now,
and you've heard me say this before in it applause.
You're trying to make sense of the abnormal in the
context of the normal.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, this Brian Coburger craziness. All of these unsealed documents
from law enforcement are. They're harrowing, they're riveting, they're important,
they're disturbing. So some of it is a little triggery.
So we're going to do this as delicately as possible.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
But first let's go.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
To a talkback.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Jess Cropper here from Newfoutland, Canada. Rember.

Speaker 11 (53:53):
Watching the Bundy tape and knowing that Bkay was a fan,
he it was interesting to see that Bundy went into
a sorority I think it was between three and four
in the morning, attacked for women, and then proceeded to
go to off campus housing and continue to attack.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
I think that's pretty interesting.

Speaker 7 (54:17):
Yeah, the Kyomega, right, that's Kyomega out of in Florida,
And you know he actually ended up killing a twelve
year old after that, his final killing and why he
received the death penalty in Florida and was sent to
the electric chair. And yeah, there's been long comparisons made
between Brian Coberger and Ted Bundy because of the targets

(54:41):
in Florida and of course Brian Coberger's victims in Idaho.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
You know.

Speaker 7 (54:45):
The thing is, though, is that he left survivors. He
left a couple of survivors in Florida.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
But thank God, thank God, thank goodness, and I'm so
grateful that they survived this fresh with death and including
the door dash driver who you know, really did see
him and walk right past him. I'd be curious too,
and this is for a different day. But something I'm
personally working on is what are all the influences.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
That this guy had? Right, So it's bunsy.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
We know that there's several pieces of his air quotes
plan that seemed to be influenced by the other serial
killers that he was clearly based on his phone that
he was obsessed with, right So you know, we know
on Christmas Day he was you know, looking into about
twenty serial killers, so this was in his mind.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
He was obviously studying it as well well.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
By that time the program though, Yeah, I know that's
not an excuse and not an excuse, but it's sort
of like, if you're putting together this tapestry of sickoness,
you know, what were the nods that he was leaning
into to become this monster?

Speaker 3 (55:47):
You know?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
It was long talked about and there's really nothing to this,
but it does serve maybe as like an emotional thing
of one of his sisters was in a horror flick
and it was sort of a slasher movie right where
the plane was just before you know, X miss vacation,
you know X amount of co eds go out into
the wilderness and not all of them come back alive. Again,

(56:10):
these are like imprints. We had talked to that guy, Courtney,
you were with me? Steve Hodell absolutely, Oh, he's so interesting,
maybe one of the more interesting people I've ever spoken to.
He believes that his father is the Zodiac Killer and
also the killer of the Uh why am I spacing
on the old time woman?

Speaker 4 (56:31):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Dalia, the Black Salia.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
He was also a Los Angeles detective, and what he
really speaks to is mental imprints, things that are kind
of passing thoughts that stick in our heads, that become
these sort of moments of things So whether you're watching
the Bundy tapes or listening to them or seeing a
slasher film that when you were younger that your sister

(56:55):
was in, Like not that any of it really is substantive,
but like as a collective, there may be things to
point to And I don't know. And on the other
side of that, I'm like, he gets no say and
I'm sick of talking about him. So it's somewhere in between,
you know, I don't I don't know what the right
answer is.

Speaker 7 (57:11):
I don't either, but yeah, So the Gainesville Ripper Danny
Rollins is one that he was kind of looking at
on Christmas Day. Ted Bundy, of course, is the talkback
so eloquently stated with the Kyomega killings. You know, there's
a lot of connective tissue a BTK in my opinion.
You know, we have the Kathlyn Ramslan connection plus BTK.

(57:33):
His first kill was for people. There's a lot of
connective tissue. And there's also like this possible gains not
Gainesville Green River killer situation. So there's a lot of
things that I think maybe he took or maybe it's
just completely random and it's not related at all.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
We don't know, and Scott Bond is another and this
is particularly to the talkback we just got, but totally random,
by the way, shout out to new film in Newfoundland.
I'm reading The Shift the shipping news if anyone's read it.
It's beautiful book, all set there anyway, so it's.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
A present on my mind.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
Book.

Speaker 6 (58:10):
What is that book?

Speaker 5 (58:10):
It's a full surprise winning book. It's it's just a
beautiful it's a journey, but it really paints the picture
of the new fees.

Speaker 6 (58:20):
I digress.

Speaker 5 (58:21):
What I was going to say to our listener is
in season two of The Idaho Massacre, we have an
episode with Scott.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Bond that's excellent.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
He's excellent, and that speaks a lot to sort of
the prince influential Scott influences. He is a criminologist and
a serial killer and expert.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Okay, yeah, he's like he's the guy that sort of
does look deep, deep deep into serials. He's coming on,
he's actually he's actually coming very very soon.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Good.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
He also has a one man show where he discusses this,
so that's in part why.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
But he's really.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Interesting and did sort of speak to some of these
influences kind of again, this is nothing like this. But
if you're a songwriter, for example, and you're creating music,
you're influenced by sure oh Steedee Wonder and Michael Jackson
and you know are Green Yeah, I mean like so yes,

(59:26):
and you know listen, these are influences. So sometimes your
music may have a tinge of those influences.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Now cut to you.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
The most sickest, most demented, grossest example is you want
to kill and therefore you're being influenced by the air
quotes greats scary stuff.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Yeah it is. It is very scary. And I got
to tell you flashback just for a second. When I
saw that image of him with the hoodie on exactly Joseph,
I thought about ped Kazinski, Yes, yes, the unibomber, and
how he could you know, he saw himself as like
this intellectual uh titan uh Ted Kaczynski was He's he

(01:00:10):
was a murderer. But you know, this guy's got PSHD
in mathematics and was very well studied, and you know,
his manifesto is just it's it's mind blowing, you know,
the stuff that he was talking about back then, And
I don't know, uh Coburger sees himself also as this

(01:00:31):
superior being. I think hates seeing his name as a
superior being, you know, intellectually to everyone else. And that
I really wonder if that that hoodie was like an homage.
I think so, yeah, because it looks just like it
looks just like the rendering absent of glasses of of of.

Speaker 7 (01:00:53):
I think I think he was preparing and looking to
see what his new uniform was going to be in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
It's just my opinion, what do you mean his new
uniform in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 7 (01:01:04):
I think he was going to strike again in Pennsylvania.
I don't think going back to Washington. That's interesting. Meaning
thank god he was arrested caught, because yeah, oh yeah,
I totally agree. Sorry I am, I'm like catching on
to what you were saying. Yeah, no brainer. Joseph and
I talk about this to nauseum. I'm not totally convinced
in Stike strike prior in some way, you know, whether

(01:01:27):
he was like a bit of a sexual predator or
he was thinking into houses. We know, we know that
there's no chance that he was like not up to nothing,
but we really tried.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
We've you know, researched a lot and having found any.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Around the sales if they're looking into them.

Speaker 7 (01:01:43):
I'm sure the Tri state area, I'm sure there are
you know what, a five state area.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
I'm sure they're looking now that we've got his DNA
and whatnot.

Speaker 6 (01:01:51):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
Listen, we would love you to join this conversation about
Brian Coburger in regards to all of the foe and
information that have come out in the Idaho murder case.
Give us a call eighty day three to one crime
or hit us on a talkback and we actually have
a talkback right now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Hey, lady Stephanie from Ohio, I just wanted to say, Boddy,
I love Brian Karenberger, and I just wanted to also suggest.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Maybe Brian criybrog. Yeah, have a great day, ladies. Love
the show, Stephanie.

Speaker 7 (01:02:27):
So for those who know, I kind of nicknamed Brian
Coberger Brian Kreenberger because of all the complaints he's been making.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
He's such an annoying complainer, it's sot of hands.

Speaker 7 (01:02:38):
So that talkback is in reference to my Brian Kherenberger
making fun of him type situation.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Brian Brian Kreiberger. That's a good one too, Thank you
for the talkback.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Yeah, Brian Kreiberger is a great call. He's such a whiner.
And again somebody who thinks they're so tough and they're
taking in all these influences and look, I'm going to
murder and massacre for people, and like sit there like
a like a glimp, what's the word. Like he was
just sitting in court so like giving nothing, and now

(01:03:09):
he's in prison where he belongs, and he's like, I
didn't get my meal.

Speaker 7 (01:03:13):
Oh it's loud.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
People are taunting me. Yeah, people are taunting you people.
That's what happens crazy making.

Speaker 7 (01:03:21):
Yeah, well, you know, I feel a certain type of
way about it. I do think, and I've said it before.
You know, we as of a society have elected to
put people in prison as a form of punishment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
We have to feed them. But what's the alternative though
to think about? Because yeah, no, truth, not that Joseph.

Speaker 6 (01:03:41):
I thought that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I had that thought this weekend when I've lost Yeah,
he was complaining about the care he was giving. You
think those caregivers are excited to feed him more.

Speaker 7 (01:03:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
I think it's referred to as the special, So then
you might be specially prepared so look, you be careful,
be careful.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Yeah, that's the truth.

Speaker 6 (01:04:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:04:07):
We send we send innocent people to prison all the time.
I just think we should be feeding them, that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
But what is the alternative? Is there?

Speaker 6 (01:04:14):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
The alternatives said? That is all the procedures and.

Speaker 7 (01:04:17):
Feed people what they're supposed to be fed. I mean,
that's there's no alternative. You know, you get a minimum
nutrition in prison. It should be met. That's just my opinion.
I listen, I'm not on Bran Koberger's side. I don't
want anybody to think that I hate him, Okay. I
just think that if we as a society are using
prison to punish people, it's our responsibility to make sure
they're nutritional needs are met and feed them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Okay. Fair, it's hard to disagree that it is very
fair in prison.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
Form is its own thing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
And I actually, yeah, let's get a different day. But yeah,
but like.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
Yes, but the dark side of me does uh does
with Joyce.

Speaker 7 (01:04:53):
The other side of me is like, I am so
happy for the family because they've got it, loving it right.
Like there's two sides, like, yeah, I hate him and
you know, screw that his nutritional means aren't giving met
He killed four beautiful people. He didn't care about them.
There's thirteen complaints against him at WSU. He didn't care
about those women either, Like, screw him forever. But at

(01:05:14):
the other side of me is like, well, we probably
should be feeding people in prison. It's probably something that
we should be doing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
That's fair. You know, you made a very good fight.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah, you made a very good argument, and I love
you for it. Listen, these guys have been having a
giggle during the break. We all kind of needed it.
Thank you for the dance break. We needed to sort

(01:05:43):
of shake off some of the heavy I have felt
a little crazed, so everyone's taking.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
It down a notch.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
I know we've talked about a lot of dark stuff,
so more dark stuff, speaking of more speaking of dark stuff.
But I will say this, I love you guys, and
I'm so glad to be with all of you having
the band together. And Joseph you hear, and Taha and
Sam and Adam like dream team. I'm really psyched. Yeah,
So back to Idaho. Back to go back to Idaho.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Go ahead.

Speaker 7 (01:06:10):
So Joseph sent this really great article okay to us,
and it's from the forensic on the scene and then
the lab like is it periodical some kind of magazine
that Joseph of course is well versed and obviously this
is his expertise, and it goes into the basically the
authrum testing that was done. And if you don't know

(01:06:31):
what AUTHORAM is, AUTHORAM is a forensic genealogy company developing
you know, high grade resolution S and P profiles, which
is like a genetic fingerprint, so to speak, right, and
they take they take this information from the crime scene
DNA and use like genome sweek sequencing technology.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:06:49):
The DNA evidence this in this case came from a
knife sheath that left at the scene containing a single
male DNA profile. This DNA profile ultimately pointed to Cobra
as a suspect and was confirmed by matching the buckle
swap they took from him when he was arrested. And
then of course they compared the trash collected at his

(01:07:10):
parents home to his biological father and that connected him
to any who I digress. So, Joseph, what can you
tell us about this testing that that that we're learning
about in this recent article from mom.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
Interestingly enough, you know, I'm friends with the people at Athram.
I think they're doing cutting edge stuff, Angels. They really are.
They they're bringing bringing resolution for people that haven't had it.
So Traditionally they have been involved in cold cases. I'll
say right here, heart stop. The Idaho case was not

(01:07:44):
a cold case. It does not fit any uh the
markers for being a cold case. All right, Golden State
killer that was a cold case. All right, those were
cold cases. List cold case.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
So authoram had had gotten engaged in order to do
this by the authorities out in Idaho. All right. So
they're working the case with that bit of DNA that
they had and I think it's probably touched DNA that
came off the knife sheet hence S and P. So
they're using these small little segments that they have and

(01:08:21):
they kind of have to amplify the stuff in order
to you know, develop profile, well their development profile. They're
going about their business doing their thing, even though it's
not a cold case, enters the FBI, and so you know,
one of the one of the big things with authorm
is that they use open source, all right. They use
open source contributors that are out there anybody can get

(01:08:45):
access to this. That's what they do well, Apparently the
FBI came in in this case, and when they did,
they entered into this thing, said we'll kind of take
it from here, and they begin to work this thing
from the perspective they're going to go into apparently databases
that are not open source. And if you listen to

(01:09:07):
the interview with the prosecutor Nie, I think it's Jeff
n I. I think that's right, it's okay, good. So Nie
makes a very clear statement here, and this is kind
of fascinating. There's actually an article with detailing this interview.
I think it's Fox. I can't remember. I think I
sent you guys the article. But at any rate, he

(01:09:27):
talks about how he everything was dependent in this case
on this bit of DNA and this profile that was developed.
And here's the problem. Within the FBI, they had a
memorandum in there that said we are not going to
use non open source DNA. Well they did, all right,

(01:09:52):
and so this it was a real risk. I mean,
it was a crapshoot, you know, for them to do this.
And the fact that they did it and they got
this more robust profile as a result of this, and
they were able to kind of pinpoint this now goes
on to talk about the fact that if it had

(01:10:12):
not hold on to your hats here, if it had
not been for this profile, the genetic profile that was developed,
they would not have gotten any of the cell right data.
And how are those two things connected. Well, one thing
connects to the next, because then you can go back
and the people they did a remarkable job with the phone,

(01:10:35):
I mean, breaking it down. It was absolutely amazing to me.
I was dumbfounded. And if it had not been for
that profile, that could not have gotten into the phone
because they could specifically narrow it down at that point
in time. So all of this, this is like a
series of dominoes that felt and it was a big

(01:10:56):
risk I think looking forward, you know, even know he
has agreed that he is not going to appeal, you know,
and I know that at some point Tom that's going
to come up. And I wonder if this is going
to be brought up in that era, some you know,
smart defense attorney is going to try to figure out

(01:11:18):
some way to engineer this thing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Can that happen, Joseph?

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
So if somebody, I mean, I'm trying to think of
an example of real time, and I know the answer
is probably yes, which is a bummer. But if someone
confesses to the murder of four people, which he has,
he's now pled guilty for life sentences, no option for parole,
even if in a bajillion years he's like, actually, my

(01:11:41):
DNA was you know, not handled correctly or that was
against my privacy laws.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
He still confessed to the murder of Jesse mus skeleton
in West Memphis. Three. That does happen.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
Yeah, I think that it's it's certainly plausible, particularly Jesse.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Was also under influence and was perhaps being you know,
saying it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
I got to tell you, never in my life did
I ever anticipate the Innocence Project taking up Scott Peterson.
All right, right, so if you've got if you've got
a group, if you've got a group of vested attorneys
that are out there, they can make just about anything
happens that they want to, or at least give the

(01:12:27):
appearance that something's going to happen, all right.

Speaker 7 (01:12:29):
And stuff like this is probably why the families, some
of them, were so upset, because, yeah, there is there
is no appeal period, right, there is no there's no
getting up. But we know better, right, we know, like,
for instance, the Meninda's brother's perfect example. They they were
sat no parole and then we just had a parli earring.

(01:12:52):
So times change, things evolve, and you know what in
twenty years, Let's say in twenty years it might be hey,
IgG's illegal. Okay, Now we've got to go back and
look at all these cases where IgG was in their
cases or you know, a product of them being does
IgG stand for?

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Just for anyone who doesn't know what does IgG stand for?

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
That's the investigative genetic genealogy. And here here's the thing.
I think at least that they're going to look at
this and you know this this people had actually run
up the flagpole in the Idaho case that this was
going to be perhaps a precedent setting case relative to IgG,

(01:13:35):
that it was going to be one of those things
where it was really going to be put to a test.
Now we've never had that test, okay, because everything hinged
on this and it was so high profile. There are
attorneys that would salivate over this in order to get
this into court, to make a name to argue it.
So I don't know, the future remains unserted.

Speaker 7 (01:13:55):
Yeah, this is your crime tonight. And I heard radio
I'm with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie and the wonderful forensic expert
Joseph Scott Morgan, and we're right in the middle of
talking about investigative genetic genealogy in kind of how it
pertains to, you know, the legality surrounding the Brian Coberger case.
If you want, if you have something to say, give

(01:14:15):
us a call eighty eight thirty one crime or leave
us a talkback. So, Joseph, do you think listen in
my worst like nightmare scenario, it's, you know, twenty fifty eight.
You know, it's a couple of years from now, twenty
fifty eight. I'm walking around with my cane and I
hear that Brian Coberger has appealed.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
I think that.

Speaker 7 (01:14:36):
IgG could be a reason, I really do, you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
The reason is because the FBI stepped in and how
they took this private personal information, how it was gathered.
You know, maybe like this is not the right word,
but without a warrant or what have you. The technicality
of it from a legal perspective could be what Brian
Cobroger at a later date uses to get parole versus

(01:15:03):
the technology. You're saying, there's a technicality on its gathering.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
There's a privacy concern.

Speaker 7 (01:15:09):
With privacy, there's a privacy concern, and it's part of
our you know rights as United States citizens and the FBI,
you know, when we don't really know exactly. I don't
at least I you know, maybe Joseph does, and he's
the expert, but you know, we don't really know the
how they created this family tree because listen, they identify

(01:15:31):
Brian Coberger through the parents trash. Basically, what they did
was they took the trash, right, and it was a
Q tip is what warned okay, And they took the
DNA on the Q tip and they said, oh, this
DNA on this Q tip belongs to the DNA depositor
on the knife sheets father, right, So the DNA of

(01:15:51):
the Q tip is the father of the DNA on
the knife, right. And then they say, well, the only
person that could be is Brian Coberger. They rest Brian Coberger.
They do a buckle swab on site. Yep, there's a match. No,
they don't get that. They don't get that without all
this IgG that's happened, So I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
But still even that they were trying to do a
technicality about even being in their garbage, because there was
so much hay made about like a personal person's garbage
can who's on the street versus at the side of
their house. If it's on the street, it's no longer private.
There's an implied sense of you can gather. We just
we kind of you know.

Speaker 7 (01:16:30):
Well, maybe that's the issue.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
I don't know, it's just it's a technicality, though it
doesn't change the actual.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Truth of it.

Speaker 5 (01:16:37):
But also, I mean, this could be the inverse of
what you're talking about, body and this could be the
beginning of case law, because I got to be honest,
I don't understand why, I IgG investigative genetic genealogy is
not used for current crisis versus cold And I think
I was sweet honestly doing season two of the Idaho

(01:16:59):
Massacre with you, Stephanie and speaking to different experts in
privacy and yeah, the rationale of you have a right
to privacy for stuff that you put out in your garbage.

Speaker 6 (01:17:12):
I don't know, does this sit with me?

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
I think it's garbage.

Speaker 6 (01:17:14):
Yeah, I think it's garbage too.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
So I love those crazy good work, Sorry, Joseph, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:20):
No, no, I think that the cases that are going
to determine the case law relative to IgG have yet
to be tried. That's what I think. I think that
it has to pass through this membrane that all new
technology and forensics has to pass through. That test is coming,
and it'll come in various forms, I think. So you're
going to have to It's not something we're going to

(01:17:41):
know immediately. I think that it'll be the test of time,
if you will, with this accumulated case case law.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Wow.

Speaker 7 (01:17:49):
Well, this is a very interesting conversation and I love
having these kinds of talks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
And let me just tell you, this night is a wrap.
Almost everybody's got a little groove. They've all got a
little shake. We're seeing some Even Joseph has his hands
in the air and I like it. Yeses stolen Malibu
Joseph and Malibu Courtney, the two of them just gonna
galli Van.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
So right off to a beach. Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
It's been an amazing night, very complicated stuff that we've
been discussing. And tomorrow we're going to really unpack the
Menendez update now that Robert rand will be back with us.
So the new developments regarding their parole is something we're
going to give a lot of time too, So if
you have any questions.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
Please toss them our way.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
And Courtney, you have a listener who's just reaching out
real time.

Speaker 5 (01:18:34):
Yeah, we got a DM from Sarah s so thank
you and it reads, Hey, girls, I absolutely love your show.
You cover the stories with so much care, class and
just the right amount of humor.

Speaker 6 (01:18:47):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:18:48):
I am a huge Joseph Scott Morgan fan as well. Yep,
so Sunday shows are my fave. I was hoping to
get his book, but I can only find it in
the kindle version. Can you tell me if they can
in print? Thanks so much, keep up the amazing work, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Oh, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah Sarah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:07):
Thanks Youah, thanks for asking. Blood Beneath My Feet has
been out of print for a couple of years. It
is available in electronic version, so that's where we stand
at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Yeah, are can we secretly talk about the screen? I mean,
are we allowed to talk about Joseph's great endeavor and
the possible film version of his epicness? We won't, I mean,
but there's been a lot of epicness around with my Feet. Yeah,
there's some really high profile, fancy people.

Speaker 4 (01:19:39):
Yeah, there has, so we'll see what happens with that.
Superspect about it. But I love you guys, Thank you,
Thank you guys for allowing me to be with you
every sing. You know, I look forward to this. It's
such a grind. I do all these shows on news,
but every week, Joseph, I have so much joy. It's
not just fun. I have joy getting together with you guys,

(01:20:00):
just chatting and so thank you for this. I can't
tell you how much I appreciate it. And just check
out body Bags. And if you're going to Crime Coon,
I will be there, and Kimmy in toe as well.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Yeah, Joseph, She's to be.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Handing out T shirts and we're fans of hers, so.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
I will be appearing on main stage with Miss Nancy Grace.
It's just she and I and we will be talking
about the intriguing case that she dropped a book on
this past summer and I've been covering it now for
three years with her, the Ellen Greenberg case.

Speaker 6 (01:20:35):
Joott.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
Well, Yeah, Joe Scott, So I you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
That's how I met you. I met you. This is
one hundred years ago. Now how long many years has
it been?

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
Joseph through Nancy one hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Yeah, it was definitely COVID times though it was definitely COVID,
and Joseph was one of those people who I just
had a fast phone call with and it was like
two and a half hours. I canceled my whole day
because he was the most interesting person I had ever
spoken to, and it was like completely about something completely separate.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
I forget even what it was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
Nancy had connected us, and I was like, wait, what
who Wait, you're a death investigator?

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
And then suddenly he was on our dock and he's
been on every one of our projects ever since. He's
been like going through every autopsy imaginable, and we've essentially
held you hostage ever since.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
So you can't.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
See so much.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Jo a joyfull end concert. You're really like the real deal.
And thank you for the great work. And yeah, listen
for anyone listening. Here's to a great week ahead. Let's
kick you know, let's kick the door down Monday. We're here,
We're going to have a great week. We're going to
be back tomorrow. Like I mentioned earlier talking about the

(01:21:47):
Menendez brothers and their.

Speaker 3 (01:21:49):
Their lack of parole.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
And again, thank you for the many questions, and the
Collins keep them coming.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Stay safe and.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Have yourself a great remainder of your Sunday night, and
we will be back tomorrow. Good Night, everybody. This is
true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 6 (01:22:06):
Bye, good night,