Ghislaine Maxwell Drops 100 Names to the DOJ, Angela Craig’s Journal Entries, and the Matrix Murders

Unpacking the latest developments in the Jeffrey Epstein saga, along with shocking testimonies from Colorado dentist James Craig’s fellow inmates and former lovers. Pop culture expert Doron Ofir joins to break down Menendez Mania, host Baudi Moovan’s Don’t F With Cats, and the Matrix Murders. Tune in for all the details.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. All right, we
are talking true crime all the time. It's Monday, July
twenty eighth, and we have a stack night of headlines.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Let me ask you, is Geelaye Maxwell.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Going to walk big day today? Lots of developments to
unpack there. Also the Dope Dentist trial continues, testimony after testimony. Listen.
Other things have been breaking in the news, so I
feel like we've fallen behind on this one. So tonight
is the night we are unpacking it all. And then
also our very own Doranto Fear, our true crime pop expert,

(00:55):
will be joining us to discuss some very juicy cases.
And also that interview between Governor Gavin Newsom of California
and also Ryan Murphy who scripted out the Menendez Brothers movie.
So what are they talking about? Lots to discuss there,
but listen, I'm Stephanie Leidecker. I'm sorry that I missed
you last night. But Courtney Armstrong and Body move in

(01:17):
the show goes on. I'm so glad to be back
with you, and look, we want to hear from you.
Join us eight eight eight three to one. Crime call
us anytime. This is a conversation. You can always hit
us up on our socials as well at True Crime
Tonight's show on Facebook or at True Crime Tonight on
Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
So.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
First up, we have a talk back Hi.

Speaker 5 (01:39):
At Cynthia from Canada calling in reverts to the Idaho massacre.
Is it possible that the sparks that the roommate saw
was from perhaps a lamp that got broken during the
struggle in one of the roommate's rooms, even maybe from
their tablet or computer that.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
And also is it possible that he administered an obnoxious
substances to sedate them so that nobody heard any sounds. Thanks,
have a great night.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
That means such a great question.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Cynthia the super sleuth herself from Canada.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
We've missed you.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, by the way, I thought the lamp or the
tablet or some but your body is shaking her head
that you don't think so I know.

Speaker 6 (02:18):
The only reason is because the layout of the house
this was on Bethany who reported these sparks and hearing
the firecracker. Lives on the first floor alone with nobody else,
and the house is very you know, the house has
just got a weird layout. And the entry to the
house comes in at the first floor and literally right
there is like a hall closet the stairs and a door.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
That's it.

Speaker 6 (02:40):
There's no room for like a lamp or a you know,
table with a tablet or anything like that. Your tablet.
She had a tablet, and she was watching her tablet.
She's watching Big Daddy, and she fell asleep to it.
She turned her tablet off, she said, and then at
four o'clock she saw sparks and heard a firecracker. We don't,

(03:03):
I mean, listen, it could be anything. It could be
literally anything. I just don't necessarily think it was a
light bulb. And there we walls. Also, there was no
report when the officers arrived on scene of a broken
light bulb. And also the toxology reports didn't report anything
about like any sort of substance that he administured to
them either.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
So it's a good got though good interesting, I think anything. Yeah,
I think the most logical is that it was a
car either peeling in or peeling out. It's for something
in the morning, you're asleep, it's a noise and a
light and if a car, you know, the light swings

(03:41):
through or fletches off of something. So that's what makes
the most sense to me.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
And like maybe a backfire or something like it. Yeah,
you know, I don't know. I don't know, but it's
it's interesting because she repeated that she repeated this this
spark and fireworker thing. Sparkler she called it at one
point in every interview that had with her.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think it is something. I don't think she imagined it.
I think it would be also odd if there was
more driving traffic at that hour, and if there were,
that would have been maybe a witness or somebody who
could have maybe given more detail about what was happening,
because I get it. Yes, you know, when you're sleeping,
you see you know, a car goes by, it does

(04:22):
change the look of the room.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Et cetera, and that can be scary.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Interesting. I don't know that we'll ever get to the
bottom of the riddle, but I do think it's something
because she has said it so repeatedly that it must
have been notable in some way and not just maybe
a fogged memory.

Speaker 6 (04:40):
I thought it was like a taser or something at first,
And I just don't know. I mean, I'm up for
discussing anything that it could be. I just don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
With the again, with the layout of that house, there's
just not a lot of room for a lot of
items down there. Yeah, it's a surprisingly small house too.
It appears much larger even in the documentary we did it,
you know, Lisa bul And so great. She did the
visual effects of it, and it is surprisingly tiny. All
things considered, it does seem much larger. But back to
the you know, maybe getting drugged or something, just throwing

(05:11):
it out there. I know you guys were with Joseph
Scott Morgan last night and this is not a theory
that he has said at all. But like they don't
test for everything that's you know, is it possible? Sometimes
we hear that well, even including the dopey dentist who's
drugging his wife with teardrops. You know, there are certain
things that are not customary on toxicology or initial autopsies,

(05:33):
et cetera. Now let's take it one step further. They
do an advanced version looking for things that are like,
you know, date, rape, drugs, roofies, ghb. Okay, maybe that's
like tier two. I'm not one hundred percent sure if
it is. If anyone listening does definitely jump in and
add to the combo. But maybe he Yeah, this little
smarty pants in his head, this monster, maybe that is

(05:56):
what quieted them. Although it didn't sound very quiet just
Santa Forensics, it seems like it must have been Mayhem.

Speaker 6 (06:03):
And Xanna really fought hard and for the life of her.
I mean, if if he did anything, if he administered anything,
it probably would have been to sweet Mattie, if anything,
because that would have really been his only opportunity. Right,
great question, though, really good lot for us to makes
me think. It makes me think, and I like those
kind of questions. So Cynthia, keep it coming. We love

(06:24):
your calls. I mean definitely love your call.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
So thank you absolutely well. I have been thinking about Glaine.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Maxwell, America's favorite co conspirator sex trafficker that's going to
be walking the streets probably soon.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Do you think, yes? Do you really?

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I have no secret information, It just seems incredibly interesting.
At the bare minimum, this is just what I'm seeing
and reading about on all sides. You know, Courtney, I
don't want to cut off the intro because you were
about to. I'll give you my opinion as up.

Speaker 6 (06:56):
Where we are.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
So Gahlene Maxwell, who has been, as you said in
the news, a lot sort of top of everybody's brain.
She reportedly gave officials the names of approximately one hundred
Epstein linked individuals during a meeting with the DOJ. And
I think it's important that it's Epstein linked because it
doesn't say people's not a client list, correct, And she

(07:20):
did that hoping to leverage that her cooperation would lead
to clemency. In the meanwhile, President Donald Trump has publicly
distanced himself from Epstein and has also denied even considering
a pardon for Maxwell. So that's kind of the update.
And then the backstory if you somehow missed it. Jeffrey

(07:42):
Epstein was a financier, a wealthy man about town, a
convicted multiple sex offender who operated a global trafficking network
for decades. This guy and he was aided by a
long time as see it slash romantic partner Eleen Maxwell,
and she was convicted in twenty twenty one of sex

(08:04):
trafficking and perjury.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
And now she's saying nothing to see here, So let's
just break that down a little bit, so play along
with me. There's probably three scenarios here. The first scenario
is that Jeffrey Epstein, this established financier, was a hell
of a guy and maybe accused of things he didn't do.
He wasn't a sex trafficker. Maybe he wasn't really luring

(08:29):
underage girls in excess, hundreds and hundreds of them to
this little island where influential men would participate in inappropriate
behavior and that's on camera, and maybe that was like
a blackmail thing. That's one theory. Maybe that didn't happen,
And if that's the case, then gile Maxwell just maybe
followed the wrong guy down the wrong place and is

(08:52):
innocent of all charges. So why would she be serving
twenty years? It's one theory. The other is a little
more extreme, and I think we're saying a lot to
this one of she's a convicted co conspirator of sex
traffing two hundred to maybe five hundred women, some of
them are underage, some of them are in their twenties,

(09:13):
some of them had literally no idea what was happening.
The list is very long. Her love of her life,
the boyfriend that she couldn't live without. Jeffrey Epstein had
a proclivity for young girls, gets some fancy island, has
girls there massaging him, and I say that in air quotes.
We know that that escalated, according to testimony by many,

(09:33):
and she kind of flew the helicopter blah blah and
has been accused of sex trafficking and according to your
point perjury. Is it possible that the DOJ right now
is getting a list of people that are just throwaway names.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Are those names going to be released?

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Because there's this other third scenario, which is these names
get taken, one hundred of them, and then they're sealed
because they can be and then we hear nothing and
even any president, whether it's President Trump or former presidents
or presidents of state or global heroes, whatever it is,

(10:09):
it's all going to get mommed again. Is that possible?

Speaker 3 (10:12):
I think anything's anything's possible. It smells so terrible.

Speaker 6 (10:17):
I think there would be massive civil unrest if that
were to happen. But you're listening to True crime tonight
on iHeartRadio. I'm Body Moven and I'm here with Stephanie
Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong, and we are talking about Delanne
Maxwell's meeting of the minds with the Department of Justice.
We want you to weigh in, what do you think
is going on, Like, what is your theory about what's

(10:37):
happening or what may happen? Give us a call at
eighty eight thirty one Prime to what else you said
you had three scenario studios.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Well, the third is that you know, we get the truth. Well,
wouldn't that be so amazing? Like what if we actually
just got the truth? And by the way, if that
means President Donald Trump when was bugs? You know, people
have friends and their friends could be doing things behind
closed doors that you're not privy to, and it's a
shock when you hear. Otherwise, let's just go there. If

(11:06):
President Trump, Okay, he invited a sex offender and his
co conspirator to his wedding. Okay, that's is what it is.
I'm sure there were a lot of people at his wedding.
There's photographs through the years. Okay, but just let's put
that aside, just as an in general, you know, we've
heard from accountless people that Epstein likely didn't kill himself
or at least the story that we've been told by

(11:28):
the government was inaccurate to some degree. And then we
were fed a bunch of noise about some tape that
was going to prove that he did commit suicide. After
person after person says yep, it's a suicide, and the
basic I can see that was untrue, and we discuss
that night after night of it through night here. Then
it was like, well, no Elaine Maxwell, of course she's
going to do twenty years. She's never going to get out.

(11:49):
That would be crazy, and like, it's actually in here
we are happening. So I don't know what to make
She's got this appeal too, and she's got a Supreme
Court by the way, she's also citing that. And I
think this is worth unpacking and we can do it
more tomorrow as an unfold. But you know, listen. Epstein
was also brought up on charges in West Palm Beach
back in the day that was the precursor to this island,

(12:12):
and he was also accused of you know, very bad
things and got a slap on the hand, like he
didn't even do a night in jail. He would like,
didn't he house or something? Yeah, like he go to
work and like puts around in West brom and like
do his.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
Thing and then then check into jail.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
He would like go and like have a little night
night with his like maybe he brought a little pillow
with him.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
It was like a joke.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Everybody let him walk. And this is somebody who was
a convicted pedophile. So not only did he walk, he
rose to the occasion and failed upward. So how does
that happen that you would even want to hang out
with that guy? But I think that's where the problem
was because apparently at that time he claimed that any
of his conspirators would not have charges be brought up

(12:55):
against them, And I think that's what Elaine Maxwell is
now pointing back to. So by pointing back to that,
you're saying, well, the accused sex trafficker said none of
my co conspirators, So wouldn't that mean sex trafficking had
to occur for him to say no co conspirators? Like
the web is ridiculous. I feel like we're like in
an endless loophole in the law and then at the

(13:18):
end of the day we can change it.

Speaker 6 (13:20):
Well, I don't know if we're going to be able
to change it, but we're going to be unpacking the
latest on the Dope dentist James Craig, the Colorado dentist
accused of poisoning and killing his wife through her protein shakes.
Plus we'll be joined by Toronto Fear. Stay tuned for that.
I can't wait. Keep it right here, True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
And listen, Epstein. We want to hear from you what
your thoughts are on these new developments. And also this
dentist in Colorado will be talking a lot about him.
He's accused of killing his wife, the mother of six kids,
and his trial basically ends tomorrow, so we want to
unpack kind of the newest developments in the courthouse today.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
And then also our very.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Favorite pop culture expert, Gronto Fear, is coming to talk
about the Menendez brothers and their recent chat with Governor
Newsom of California. So more on that to come. But
first of well, actually we have a caller now, Hi Bear,
Thank you for calling.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Hi, Hi, Welcome to the show. What's your question?

Speaker 7 (14:28):
Well, question, why aren't they letting those men getting those
boys out?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Would you like them to be released or would you
not like them to be released?

Speaker 7 (14:37):
I would like them to be out. Everybody else gets
their second chance, why not them? I mean, they don't
have much of a life left, you know, and their
family will take them in, you know. I mean, you
don't know how long they're going to live after they
get out, because it's not I just don't like it,
because I've heard of other people getting out after five years,
ten years, you know what I mean totally, you're in
what thirty five years? I think that's long enough.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Thirty five years?

Speaker 3 (15:01):
And we know, do you?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Obviously you don't think they're a danger to society, and
you're you're kind of right. It does seem like people
are getting out left and right. Who gets to decide
when and why?

Speaker 6 (15:12):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
So well, Menanda's brothers may very well walk very soon.
You might very very happy to know very soon. I
think I think they will.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
You know.

Speaker 6 (15:19):
They have their parle hearing on August twenty first and
twenty second, and by the way, Bear, thank you so
much for the call. We really appreciate to keep it coming.
So their parole hearing is on the twenty first and
the twenty second of August. But prior to that, maybe
this talk with Gavin Newsom, who said he could consider
furloughing them. You know, I think it's Lyle that is

(15:40):
in the hospital with the kidney stones or whatever. He
could get a medical furlough for that. We're to see.
But you know, we have Deron coming up in the
next hour and he's going to talk about that conversation
with Gavin Newsom right An, it's actually very timely, so
stay tuned because we're going to be talking about the
Menendez like ad nauseum really.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
And it's it's actually Eric Menendez is Eric Hie. Thank
you for that. And by the way, this is a
real stranger side. But have I actually watched someone have
at kidney stone? I was at work with someone who's
a very dear friend and I'll make this quick, and
they said, oh my god, like horrible pain. Have to
go to the hospital kind of pain. And when we

(16:22):
finally got there, figured out that they were like passing
a kidney stone and it.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Looked very creating, on the same level as childbirth, because
that's what.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
It seemed it while I was driving the car and
there in the passenger seat.

Speaker 6 (16:38):
Is it the same as a dentist?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
It seems like anybody who had dental work in Colorado
should go back and make sure things are on the
up and up, because this dentist seemed awfully busy.

Speaker 6 (16:48):
Yeah, So closing arguments begin tomorrow in the Dopey Dentist trial.
Of course, his name is James Craig. We're referring to
him as the Dopey Dentist because we just don't like
him very much. He stands a custa fatally poisoning his wife, Angela.
She had six children with him, six children. She was only.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Forty three years old.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Dedicated, dedicated mother, dedicated white, a woman of faith, a
woman of much faith.

Speaker 6 (17:14):
Yes, and she was very committed to her husband. And
he poisoned her with cyanide and tetra a drosolene, which
is like the fluid that's in the eye droppers. I
didn't know this. I have vizine at my desk, and
so the other day I was at work and I
picked up my vizine. You know, it's really dry in Vegas.
It's not like I'm you know, smoke a drugs or
anything like that, but it's really dry in Vegas. So vizine.

(17:36):
I carry it with me. It says on the back,
don't drink. I did know ida, No, exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
There's many times of it, and this guy had been
doing it for a long time. It's also, as we know,
a very painful death, and this guy knows it and
apparently was like out and about with a lot of ladies. Yeah,
and in fact, you know, this is really sad. I
read today. Angela's last words were, why do I hurt?

Speaker 6 (17:59):
Very so? AnyWho. So, last week the court heard because
you know, listen, we were on coburger like all, you know,
the last five days, we've missed a lot of the
dopey dentist stuff, so I'm kind of I want to
kind of recap what's been going on smart. Last week
the court heard from inmates who are saying that Craig
attempted dopey dentists, attempted to bribe them into planting false evidence,

(18:24):
and orchestrating a murder for higher plot against the detective,
the lead detective in this case. Other key witness also testified,
and they included several different women with whom Craig was
having affairs with. So we've got inmates that are testifying saying, listen,
he tried to hit me up in prison when I
was or in jail, you know, he was in the
jail cell next to me, and he wanted me to

(18:46):
plant a journal at the house. He even gave me
the door code, told me what where.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
To put it.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
He's giving them deaf yet he's giving the children, just
totally throwing a security of his beloved family out the door,
whether they if there are not any longer.

Speaker 6 (19:01):
Right, Oh, horrible, horrible. And then of course the women.
Over the course of their marriage, the Adobe dentists had
a couple different affairs. And I'm using couple like I'm
being very kind. It was many different affairs with different women.
And Angela actually wrote in her journal about these, which

(19:22):
we're going to cover later about these affairs because she
knew about it, and you know, and forgave him because
she was very committed to her marriage. You know, she
had six kids with this guy. He was a dentist.
I mean, you know, he's providing, and you know.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Well, in terms of the providing, I will say there
was definitely financial difficulties, Like big I'm pretty sure bankruptcy
was on the table at some point.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Gay, He's got a lot of mouths to feed, well, yes,
and women, women on dates, and I think all these
dates are cheap no.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
And he's yeah, you know, going on huge vacations. And
then also he was purporting to be a millionaire. It
was on like sugar Babies dot Com or stuff like that.
So listen, we want to hear your thoughts. We're at
eight to eight, three to one crime. What do you
think about this dope dentist and more specifically, what do

(20:15):
you think about how asking a fellow inmate to go
plant false things at your house, false journals, and giving
these people who are in prison and giving them the
code to your garage and here's the layout to the house.
I mean, yeah, it's a house where your kids.

Speaker 6 (20:35):
Live too, and then asking him to take out the
lead detective that's investigating this case too.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
That's great. And they did.

Speaker 6 (20:44):
The inmates did testify and say that they were not
given any special consideration for their testimony. I don't know
how true that is. I mean, I obviously they're not
going to commit perjury, but I don't know. You know,
we have to see his photo.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
This guy, Oh, he's not smiles from my by the way,
the dentist he smiles.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Women be worn.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
He looks like but by the way, he looks like
friendly and nice and he's gissing on his wife and
all these photos smiley and happy. Meanwhile, this guy's like
spiking her protein shakes with cyanide and then going on
double dates with multiple women literally six kids at home
and doing root canal during the day and having arsenic

(21:26):
delivered to his office.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Who has the time?

Speaker 6 (21:29):
While while she was Sickason, he was sexting and making
arrangements meet with two different women and they testified today
or yesterday. Yeah, and now he's getting everybody knocked off
around him. You know who's involved in this case?

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Question Like it's again it says like this grandiose sense
of self that he must have to think he could
get away with it. That is a dissimilar or is
a similar I should say, trait to Brian Coberger in
the Idaho student murders, Like these guys that just think
they're above getting that they're going to have every little
check in box happening and that guy will pay off.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Like it's so scary it is. Well this and the reason,
by the way, I remember whoever of us first said
this guy's a dope, but this dopey dentist is because
how also do you think it's going to be a secret.
If you're telling all of these multitudes of people and
having all of these affairs, that's what's even beyond Okay,

(22:26):
you can think maybe I'm smart enough by myself to
never get caught when you embroil multitudes, including your daughter
and your fellow inmate and the admin who works at
your dental practice to you know, sign for your what
was it arsnakes R screen?

Speaker 8 (22:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, literally, like so well please artek delivery.

Speaker 8 (22:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (22:49):
So one of his affairs testified that she met him
through that sugar daddy website sugar babies or no nature
seeking something like that.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
And what is it? It's nature?

Speaker 2 (23:02):
What does that even mean?

Speaker 6 (23:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
So you log on, I'm sorry to cut us off
and derail us. Of course you don't know this, but
what what does it say that? It is nature dot com?
It's a sugar daddy site. So that means for just
for my mom, that means you are a young lady
looking for a man with deep pockets with money to
take care of her in exchange for sex, and you

(23:25):
can do that online in a confidential manner.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Is that they that's the assertion.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
That's the assumption. That's so just encouraging.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
No one knows what that is.

Speaker 6 (23:34):
Her name was Elizabeth, Elizabeth Gore, and she testified that
she knew he was married, but that they were getting
like kind of like disentangled, and that they went on
the trip to Montana, and while they were on this
trip to Montana, the dope dentist gave her like eight
thousand dollars. And while they were driving to go skiing Angela,

(23:58):
the wife called the dope dentist and he had to
like pull over and they spoke for two hours while
she just sat there, okay, And then when it was over,
when the phone call was over, he gets in the
car and he's like, I gotta go home, and she
was like, yeah, you know, like it's fine, it's yeah.
And I think I got the impression for reading all

(24:19):
the articles that that's kind of when he was like,
I got to get rid of my wife. Like she's
a big fat headache, Like she's she's doing to my hookup.
I just gave this chick eight thousand dollars. She's doing
getting bankruptcy.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
He has six kids that probably have some needs, and
he's coughing over eight py and going on a sexy
website to meet young tail looking out for men with cash.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
By the way, lucky that she came forward. I took
a little bravery.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
It did take hats off big courage for that, because again,
these are the guys that would get away with it
absolutely well.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
He had too many women in Broil to get to
possibly have gotten away with it. I mean, to your point, yes,
good for you for coming forth. But even this woman
who he gave that eight thousand dollars too, she was like, yeah,
coming on, way too strong. But it was in the
same moment where he's meeting and kissing. Well.

Speaker 6 (25:16):
He met another girl at this seeking dot com which
is another kind of one of those websites, and she
testified her name is Carrie. She testified he helped pay
her bills and bought her a car for her daughter.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
How much do dentists make? This guy?

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I would like every person who was a patient to
turn around. He has a set of teeth on him. Here,
this guy's all smiling in his photos. I need everybody
to have a look. It's so upsetting. Your teeth arek
perfect though, smile away. You've been talking a bit about

(25:55):
the dope dentist. Obviously jump in joined the conversation eight
eight eight three one crime. You can also leave us
a message or a talkback.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Actually we have one now.

Speaker 9 (26:05):
Much love, love the show, love the in depth.

Speaker 10 (26:08):
I just I'm a little bit addicted and a little
sad that you take a break. But I follow you
on most of your social media.

Speaker 9 (26:14):
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Bye, aw I is there?

Speaker 6 (26:18):
Like?

Speaker 3 (26:18):
That was so nice.

Speaker 6 (26:19):
It was so nice. Listen, if you want to leave
us a talkback, that is a good one to leave
because I'm in sadly with all the I mean just
for the horrible things that we cover. It's kind of sad.
And yeah, you know that's very nice to hear. Thank
you so much.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Thank you for joining the combo.

Speaker 6 (26:34):
Yeah, and anytime, anytime you can.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Also you can leave questions or have disagreements or anything else.
But that was a really nice one.

Speaker 6 (26:45):
Compliments. I'll tell you what. So I'm gonna go ahead.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
I was just going to say, so like this dentist,
I mean, I think we have to still unpack a
bit more about it, because it's great jaw dropping. This
guy really thinks he's above the law. Oh he does.

Speaker 6 (26:57):
So if you're just joining us, we're talking about Adobe
DENTI he is the dentist out of Colorado. His name
is James Craig, and he is in court right now.
He's on trial because he is accused of killing his wife,
Angela Craig. She was forty three, mother of six, his
six children, by the way, they've been married forever. And
he killed her with eye drops that he put cyanide

(27:18):
in and then put those eye drops into her protein shakes.
And additionally he might have put something we don't know
into antibiotics, which is what I'm going to kind of
get into now. His family or her family came to
Colorado to help with the kids, because again, six kids

(27:38):
and moms in the hospital for ever at the hospital,
and the Adobe dentist is out here running around with all
these women that he's met at dentist conferences and you know,
these sugar baby websites and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
He was literally.

Speaker 6 (27:51):
Dating one of the women. When Angela was in the hospital,
he was in the hotel room with her. So this
while so, I mean the kids are at home. There's
six kids, anyhow, so her family came into Colorado to
help take care of the kids. No, all right, and
they said that the Dennis was acting very strange. I

(28:12):
bet and they say that Mark, who is the brother
of Angela, the victim in this case. Mark said that,
you know, when Angela got released from the hospital, she
had like basically a list of things that she had
to take, like all these medications and whatnot. And one
of them is one that he prescribed, and it was
like an antibiotic. I can't pronounce the name, so I'm

(28:36):
just gonna say an antibiotic.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's okay. So he the brother.

Speaker 6 (28:40):
The brother's like, thank you, I'm gonna give this to
my sister while you're at work, okay. So the dopey
Dennis goes to work and the brother gives it to
her on time, and within minutes she's like in so
much pain that they have to take her back to
the hospital.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (28:56):
Then she never she never comes home after that. And Mark,
the brother says that the dope dentist was mad they
took her to the hospital. She's supposed to be resting.
She's not supposed to have movement, you know, Yeah, he got.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
She's also not supposed to have nineteen kinds of poison
in her body.

Speaker 6 (29:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
But harv Our entire family have to come across the
country to take care of his six children while he's
handing six or eight thousand dollars worth of cash to
a younger fling.

Speaker 6 (29:24):
You're not wrong, are not wrong anyway. I just thought
that was just so sad, Like, you know, she thought
she was taking a pill that her husband apparently prescribed
to her. And I don't know what he did with these.
They were capsules, you know how like there's like the
pills and then there's capsules that you can break open together.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
They were capsules. Those were very dangerous too, also, a
little white. You need some advice if you are stumble
upon those.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Those can really be messed with.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Well do we know if he tweaked them or if
it was an interaction with again all of the stuff
that was ravaging her body all ready.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
I think the accusation is that they were tweaked, got it.
And then also the accusation is that he did her
off at the end in the hospital like you see
in the scary movies, something in her iv Am I
mistaken about that?

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, he brought in excuse met, the prosecution alleges that
he brought in a syringe to allegedly alleged that's right.
How many how many episodes of everything. Have we legally jagged?

Speaker 8 (30:26):
I say it?

Speaker 6 (30:27):
He wrote a note. He wrote a note in his
iPhone like you know how you can go your notes
and you and it was his account of what happened,
and he said, he said, quoting directly. So I want
to get it right. She told me she intended to
drink eyedrops again and then do the cyanide. She asked

(30:48):
me to put it into a capsule and then as
a backup plane, dissolved something into a syringe. I got her,
this is the anti name clemenisiny okay, and then filled
up two hundred milligrams each of potassium cyanide. So they
were signiding these little pills two hundred milligrams. She asked

(31:11):
me to do something like a dozen capsules in the er.
It looked like she was probably going to pull through
and be okay, he wrote. In that moment, when no
one else was in earshot, she asked me to help
finish the job.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
What a gross person this guy is. This is a
throwaway the key right.

Speaker 6 (31:29):
And so the problem with this is that she Angela
thwarted his plan because she kept a journal, and this
journal dates back to two thousand and nine, and really quickly.
The journal never mentions that she's suicidal, not one time.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Well, that seems like because it was the truth. Listen,
we want to hear what you think is the truth
in this case. What do you think you know? Was
Angela have issues as this dentist claims, or as all
the evidence seems to be pointing to. Was he just
a horrible decrepit person? Add eight through one crime? Let

(32:10):
us know your thoughts. So what else was in this journal?
What else can we learn from?

Speaker 6 (32:15):
So it dates back, It dates back to two thousand
and nine, and it contained numerous entries detailing, you know,
emotional distress and repeated suspicions of infidelity. You know, she
really knew that he was cheating on her. Back to
two thousand and nine, there was a February twenty eighteen
entry where she wrote that he had been having an

(32:35):
affair for six months, noting that he wouldn't admit it
and might not even fully acknowledge it himself. In various
entries throughout the journal, she expressed feelings of being unloved
and feeling betrayed and emotionally unsafe in the marriage, linking
her pain directly to him. It's really sad. It's really sad,
but she was still committed.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
It's horrible, and you know, to do that to somebody
when you cheat on them, it does. It didn't. I'm
painting with a broad brush, but it really demolishes your
self esteem. I'll say, you know.

Speaker 6 (33:09):
She said that they were in her journal. She noted
that they were attending therapy together and that the dope
dentist was reportedly seeking addiction treatment, saying that he had
like a sex addiction. And she said, he loves me.
How could he do this to me if he really
loves me, he doesn't think I'm good enough. He'd rather
be with someone else.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
So sad.

Speaker 6 (33:30):
The prosecutors emphasized that despite all this emotional devastation that
he had been putting her through in the journal, Angela
never ever wanted to die. She never ever mentioned she
was feeling suicidal. She just was feeling unloved. The defense
did not dispute that fit the affairs occurred that she
alleges in this journal, but did not allow this to

(33:52):
be characterized as motive without more direct proof. So they're
not going to say this was the motive for him
getting rid of her anything like that. I still think
it's because that to our phone call. I think that's
kind of when he was like, okay, that's it.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
What do you think he talked about for that two
hours when he was on the side of the road
with his I don't even know young and in the car,
I don't know. I mean, what would you guess?

Speaker 9 (34:17):
Maybe?

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Where are you?

Speaker 9 (34:18):
Or you?

Speaker 6 (34:19):
Why aren't you home? What are you doing in Montana?

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Why is there this? Yeah? Where?

Speaker 2 (34:25):
I mean, any numbers for our children? While are you're
not home helping care for them? Don't you have to
be at work in the morning. Didn't we declare bankruptcy
two times? Yet you're gallivanting in Montana? I mean yeah,
two hours would go by in a blip, right.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
And by the way, this is interesting. All the women
that he had all these affairs with testified that he
was like love bombing and like over texting them even
know this time, we've all been love bombed, right, It
kind of feels good for a minut and you're like, wait,
what's going on here? So he was he was saying
that he was separated, he was saying he was divorced.

(35:07):
He was saying he was married to some because some
didn't care because it's a sugar babies, right, they don't care.
But in other cases he was saying you separated, and
he would just be love bombing these women and they
would be backing off like this is like he said
to one of them, he said, I really want you
to meet my children, and she was like, that's like

(35:27):
we just met, like.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
What And by the way, in case you don't know
what love bombing is, that's kind of when you know,
you meet somebody and they just they love you up.
They give you so many compliments, they love you immediately,
and they give you so much attention. It can feel
intoxicating and exciting, and it's sometimes just purely a con

(35:51):
and a way to get you sort of excited and distracted.
So it's like excessive amounts of texting and saying I
love you within twenty four hours.

Speaker 6 (36:00):
You know.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
It's just like when it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Sometimes they're really just getting you know, warmed up to
play you.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Right.

Speaker 6 (36:08):
Like So here's like an example, like can I can
I read? Like one of the text is it's a
little okay, but this was, uh he says this. So
many things I can't write now because I'm trying to
get through this day without being two turned on the
whole time, and he was like, Swaynicle, Nigel, my eternal
love and may Heaven let us bloom together forever, like

(36:30):
eh bar first, I know, right, like ooh gag.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
And then you know, eventually these texts that he was
sending would turn to sexting, which, of course, if you
don't know what sexting is, it's basically it's phone sex
over texting. Is that a good way to describe it?

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yes, very suggestive, And.

Speaker 6 (36:49):
So they would they would turn to sexting more often
than not, and yeah, it's just so crazy. And he
would say the problem is that I might be completely
in love with you after three days and that's nuts.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
And so, sir our youth, I.

Speaker 6 (37:05):
Would block him, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'd be like, that's a rule of advice, right when
that kind of thing happens. Yeah, it's a read block
block block block block block.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (37:15):
And in one of the girls, he said she was
concerned that she was breaking up his marriage, and he was,
you know, she didn't want to participate in fidelity and
she said to him, I have a strict line about
not being in more than one relationship at a time,
and then he would continue on with the divorcing narrative.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Well, listen, we will keep you up to date as
this child comes to a close. So listen.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Right before we came on air, there had been an
active shooter, you may know, in midtown, New York. Five
reported dead. We are incredibly sad to report many injured.
Motive unknown, and the killer, it appears, has killed himself
and the area is safe and our hearts are with
all things in New York right now. You know, Corney,

(38:02):
I know it's been upsetting you, even just during the
break as we're hearing new information. So honestly, we should
have started that at the top of the show. So
we're getting these left dates live in real time. So again,
if you have any information that you want to share
with us in the audience. Eight eight eight three one crime.
I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Body move in.

Speaker 6 (38:24):
Yeah, court there was one in Reno today too, in
Reno today too, at a casino. Yeah, in Nevada.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah. I mean, these shootings are so pervasive, they are
just the part of it's just sickening and the multitudes
that they're happening that it's almost I mean, these are tragedies,
each and every one of them, and they come so
fast and furiously. Children The most likely way that a

(38:51):
child will now die is gunshot.

Speaker 6 (38:53):
It's crazy.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
How about that?

Speaker 6 (38:55):
Is that true?

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Really I didn't know that either.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
Are you serious leading cause of death? Yeah, I'll get
you the person. I believe, No, I just to but
it's it's insane. And yeah, Stephanie, just to update on this,
the NYPD, the FBI and other agencies, they did respond
so quickly and go New yr And this incident began

(39:19):
just before six thirty pm Eastern and everything was secured
by eight pm. No motive determined. And just beware if
you are in New York, you should avoid parking Avenue
between East fifty first and second because it's locked down.
But to see there's a picture it's harrowing of the

(39:41):
shooter walking in and the ar style rifle. I mean
it looks three feet long. I don't know, it's sort
of from from the hip almost to the floor.

Speaker 6 (39:53):
How is that possible?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
And this guy was again really young, So you know,
I fear that this is what happened. When we applaud
the Luigi Mangiones or Mangiones of the world for being
these young predators that have a statement. How do you
walk into a building with the rifle and take out
people who are just hard working midtown? If you don't
know New York City that area, I mean, I think

(40:17):
many of us have lived right there, myself included. You know,
it's the center of New York City. It's a real
big banking you know, part of the city. You know,
people go there for lunch and you know you've seen
working girl in New York City. Everyone's on foot, so
you're really vulnerable.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah. By the way, I just double checked myself body
when you asked. And yeah. Beginning in twenty twenty, firearms
are passed car accidents motor vehicle accidents to become the
leading cause of death for children and adolescents age one
to nineteen.

Speaker 6 (40:49):
Oh my gosh. So this morning at seven am, a
gunman approached the valet area outside the Grand Syria Resort
and casino and reno and began firing at a group
of people. One died un scene, one died in his car,
two remaining critical condition. Five people were shot in total,
so there's like three Rita.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
This is Sandy.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
So you know, listen up, we're going to solve something.
We all need to know how to fix this stuff.

Speaker 6 (41:17):
I mean, you know, I mean, I don't know the
I don't know the answer. I mean, is it a
mental health issue in this court, this country combined with
our you know, love of weapons, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
I mean, and even the weapons. Take it or leave it,
whatever your decision is, but the mental health check prior
to getting one.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Curious what you guys would think, you know. Please again
heavy combo eight eight eight three one crime. Join the conversation.
But next up we have duran Oh Fear, our pop
culture expert who's going to talk with us a little
bit about Menendez. But again, jump in, join the combo.
This is true crime tonight. And now we're being joined

(42:04):
by true crime pop culture expert Doronto Fear. He's logging
in as we speak. But first we have to go
to a talkback.

Speaker 9 (42:12):
Man.

Speaker 8 (42:13):
I tell you you guys are killer of this no
pun intended, especially about that fill it down on Birmingham,
murdering all those people. It's a darn shame. I can't
believe it's so educated. I wish the National News would
pick this up because it's something I just.

Speaker 9 (42:28):
Heard about it here.

Speaker 8 (42:29):
Then we're fifteen minutes outside of Birmingham.

Speaker 9 (42:31):
It's great to see it getting attention.

Speaker 8 (42:33):
But you're doing a great job.

Speaker 9 (42:35):
I no, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I love it. Yeah. So this is the story that
Joseph brought us. We didn't even a passion one for
him too. He's been following it so closely.

Speaker 6 (42:45):
Eighteen eighteen people that this guy has killed. It seems
to be a contract kind of killing, but he was
also involved in some personal vendetta killing as well. And
he's basically a serial killer because he was doing all
these killings throughout Birmingham twenty.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
Twenty years old, twenty multiple lounges and a fire department.

Speaker 6 (43:08):
He shut a fireman, but he was apparently fired to
do this.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
I don't know well, because that the fire department when
he went it was because I'm fairly certain that the
man who he killed the fire the fireman was slated
to testify.

Speaker 6 (43:26):
Oh against one of his because apparently he's in some
kind of like drug ring.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
This suspect allegedly.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
We learned about this yesterday, so we're kind of just
learning about it too, but it is very interesting and
it is something that we're definitely going to keep following on.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Why is that not breaking news everywhere? Also, the eighteen
people is a tremendous amount of human beings, so you know,
it hasn't been on the ticker of any of the
those curioutional radio shows.

Speaker 6 (43:55):
I was curious yesterday because we were talking about what
an impact this made on Birmingham's crime statistics, right, like
it greatly inflated the level of crime that Birmingham is experiencing.
And so I was like, well, let me go look
and see, and sure enough, it's like ten percent. Wow,
of Birmingham's crime. That's fattering that year.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Twenty two year old is so yeah, We're so happy
and where That's one of the great things about Joseph
Scott Morgan, not just his knowledge and his way of
delivering knowledge in a really understandable way, but also the
cases that he finds and is passionate about. There's another
I wanted to give you guys an update on a
case we have been following really since June second when

(44:41):
it happened, and that's with Travis Decker, and he is
the man who has been accused of killing his three
young children, all three girls under ten, And there has
been a just really herculean effort by many multiple federal
and state agencies and just today authorities that they have

(45:05):
sharply reduced their efforts. And that's because after nearly two months,
there's just there's a lack of credible leads and they
have almost literally been looking for a needle in a
haystack in these Paul Treed mountainous areas.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
There's no way he's still living on There's no way
or he's in Canada as planned. Wasn't that his initial
plan when this all happened, and he was, you know,
on the lamb with his three lovely daughters to go
on a camping recursion.

Speaker 6 (45:34):
And yeah, prior to him taking them out into the campsite,
he had been looking for, you know, how to get jobs,
to gain Canada and how to immigrate to Canada. You know,
he was very Canada centric.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
So let's me zoom he's there, Like, why wouldn't he be?

Speaker 6 (45:51):
Well, our CMP would be looking for him too, though
they may be in a Canadian Mounted Police. They're amazing,
by the way, they are an incredible organization.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Right are they? Like particularly specifically trained in something, or
they're just.

Speaker 6 (46:04):
They're just they're based. They're kind of very similar to
our FBI, like internal, you know where like the CIA
is external, you know, with investigations and whatnot. It's internal Canada.
So in Canada, this is a tangent. In Canada, they
don't have Basically, the RCMP will act as local police.

(46:26):
Like if you live in a small area in Canada,
your local police station is the RCMP.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
That's so interesting and very It's very effective by all accounts.
So that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. Well, I mean, listen,
I hope that's the case and that he's not at large,
because we do know he's suffered from mental health issues,
was unmedicated and had potentially murdered three of his children,
so he would be very violent at that point.

Speaker 6 (46:54):
So Canada can give us us some insight. If you're listening,
give us a call.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
Cynthia.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Cynthia, Cynthia speaking of give us listens about and we
have doron O Fear who is joining us, our true
crime pop culture expert of greatness.

Speaker 9 (47:12):
Hi, welcome, Hi everybody.

Speaker 6 (47:16):
I'm waving at you like people can hear me.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
So Menendez brothers were We're excited to hear your unpack
on what you think about what's happening with the new
developments in the Menendez brother case and the fact that
one of them is suffering from kidney stones and may therefore,
you know, be released sooner maybe than anticipated. Both brothers,
of course, are are trying to be released from prison

(47:43):
in many categories actually, and that could happen as.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Soon as next month. What do you think of that?

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I know he had a big conversation regarding the possibilities
of that Governor Newsom did with the scripted Ryan Murphy,
who made the show.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
What do you make of all of that? So, just
as a quick backdop, this was about a week ago.
There was the Monsters, the Lyle and Eric Menendez story,
which is what Ryan Murphy created, that scripted series that
you mentioned. So he appeared on a podcast with California
Governor Gavin Newsom and it was to discuss the Menendez

(48:21):
brothers because Governor Newsom's decision on their parole is coming close.
So anyone who's been asleep for a couple of decades,
Lyele and Eric Menendez are serving life in prison sentences
for murdering their parents. They were convicted in nineteen ninety

(48:42):
six of first degree murder and conspiracy. But the judge
is suggesting that he may be eligible for parole.

Speaker 6 (48:53):
Well, they're going to go in August, right, August twenty
first and twenty second, is that right?

Speaker 3 (48:57):
That's still on, That's still on.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
But one of them may be you know, obviously badly
for Luner because of this furlough situation, which you know
must be complicated.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
I don't know. Yeah, so Ryan Murphy, he had publicly
admitted that when he began the series he believed the
brothers should never be released. However, throughout the process of
producing it, he ended up supporting the parole due to
the age that they were at, due to all of
the rehabilitation and all of the backing from the family.
So I think that way is really heavy with me.

(49:32):
Is how strongly so true? You know, both sides by
their family.

Speaker 6 (49:37):
Oh there he is?

Speaker 9 (49:38):
Hello, issues high everybody?

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
So yeah, we were just doing a little filling in
on the latest developments with this Menendez brother potential release.

Speaker 9 (49:52):
Well, you know, I have such an interesting take on this,
and I'm probably an opposite of what you guys are
talking about. I look at it again from a pop
culture and sort of a political the effects of pop
culture on true crime and politics and everything else. And
I find it really interesting that Ryan Murphy decided to
go on Kevin Newsom's podcast and then discuss this because

(50:13):
it's such a hot topic, sort of populist issue. But
when you break it down, Ryan Murphy's interview kind of
highlighted the fact that he and into this with a
preconceived notion of their guilt. Now we do know that
the crime happened, and we do know that they did
what they did. The question was the court system and

(50:33):
whether that second trial would have changed their verdict into
the where they was. There was a manslaughter charge within it,
which would have held then at the time, a maximum
sentence of thirty years, and that's really the sticking point here.
And I think that Ryan Murphy then said, oh, if
I knew now and I knew then, and I was
sort of I came out of it thinking they should

(50:54):
be released. It's really a question of the failure of
the courts at the time, and with all the new
evidence that came out about the abuse, you know, I
think it's definitely something to consider. I just think that
it's a very sensational element, and I find it very
odd that the person that swayed Ryan Murphy's opinion was

(51:16):
Kim Kardashian.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Mmmmmm hmmm.

Speaker 6 (51:18):
Well, they have a hapeass corpus argument too, because they
because of the second trial, right because this letter, their
abuse was not allowed to be entered into court. They
had two separate trials, so they have, like I feel
like they have several pathways for release, would you guys agree.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Yes, one hundred percent? And the habeas corpus this is
this is new, this is you know, seven weeks old
or something in the scope of something that's been going
on for thirty plus years.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
So well, the judges asked the prosecutors to explain why
this you know, of these the trial went the way
it did, Like the judges basically come out and said,
you need to explain by the state, and I don't
have the date off the top of my head, why
why they trial happen this way?

Speaker 2 (52:05):
What do you make of that?

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Though?

Speaker 2 (52:06):
It seems so not customary to have to go back
to a prosecutor of yesteryear thirty years later to.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Say why, why, why what happens?

Speaker 2 (52:15):
If they're not satisfied with a prosecutor's answer, Are there
possible charges related to that?

Speaker 6 (52:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Them, No, I'm a prosecution No, I don't think so.

Speaker 6 (52:27):
I don't think there's a I don't think there's think it.

Speaker 9 (52:28):
Comes down to whether or not the Attorney General is
willing to not really open the case. It's basically change
the verdict so that they are up for parole, that
it's not you know, a consecutive life sentence or whatever else.
And you know, my personal opinion is it was a
really brutal crime. They did murder their parents in a

(52:51):
very barbaric way. And although there's so much publicity and
sensationalism from a pop culture perspective, it was so you know,
big in the new and there were so many questions
going back and forth about even after they did it,
then they went on a shopping spree and you know,
was it all trauma and does the trauma excuse the
murder and everything else? I think that all of that
is valid. But I do think that now we're looking

(53:13):
at what thirty five years in prison, they were model
citizens thought in the moment that they got in. Yeah,
they have changed the course of what their redemption and
if the prisons system is really for redemption.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
It is.

Speaker 9 (53:26):
They are kind of an example of that.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
In fact, they started like a program to take care
of like the elderly people who have grown old in prison,
and I thought that was really nice. And additionally, like
some of the officers in prison, the corrections officers are
like writing letters and going down speaking at their parole
hearing on there that just what model citizens they've become

(53:51):
and how they've enhanced prison life for the other inmates
to make those people, you know, rehabilitate, because it's not
just them that are rehabilitating, and the things that they're
doing are helping other inmates do.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
So it's a change.

Speaker 9 (54:04):
That's the part that I think that people need to
take into consideration. And I think they need to take
into consideration that after thirty five years, if they would
have been sentenced under the other guidelines, then they would
be released. Now you can go back and say the
crime that they did warrant life in prison, and then
that's where you go into well, wait a minute, because
the trial did exclude a lot of the sexual accusations

(54:28):
of molestation, and since then we now know that other
accusations have been leveled against the father, including you know
the story between behind the.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Menuto Yeah, the Menudo brother dren hold that thought. We're
going to talk about what you guys are watching. What
who wants to go first?

Speaker 9 (54:47):
W I gotta jump in on this. I'm waiting to
do this since the show started, and this all goes
to you Body. So you know, my favorite.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
One of the reasons I got so obsessed with true
crime is because of Don't Have with Cats, And when
that came out, I was astonished the way they told
that story on that documentary on Netflix, and it came
out in twenty nineteen, and the way they told the
story was nonlinear because they went from the armchair detective
to tell.

Speaker 9 (55:14):
The most brutal murder that I have ever known. And
because I'm a pop culture and I sort of make
the connection of Hollywood film or the influence of pop
culture and true crime, this was the one because when Magnata,
Luca Magnata, did his murder, he really embodied Sharon Stone

(55:35):
and he wanted to be Sharon Stone in basic instinct.
And for those that don't know what this documentary is about,
Body was the star of it.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
She was the.

Speaker 9 (55:43):
Brilliant armchair detective that told the story. It was told
with humor and depth, heart and empathy, and it was
the most brutal crime because this was cannibalism. It was
performance art, it was theater direction, lighting direction, and he
filmed it as the first ever real true snuff film

(56:04):
to ever hit the Internet. And as a backstory to this,
my personal connection to this was back when it happened.
I received that link and I clicked on that link
in a morning before going to work, and I was like,
what is this? And I didn't know it was real,
and it was horrifying to me because I didn't watch
the whole thing. But he's dressed in this black leotard

(56:25):
dancing around with a nice pick. And when I went
to work, I had a meeting with my staff and
I said to them, I got this really weird link
and it sits really badly with me, only to then
follow it in real time in the news as this
worldwide manhunt came out because the video was real. And
then years later I pop on don'ts with Cats, not

(56:46):
knowing it's the story of that same video, and lost
my mind. And it's a must watch if you have
not seen it. It's still on Netflix and Body, you
are brilliant in it.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
I couldn't agree more of you so much. That was
also just to kind of add to that, you know,
same for me, I was it was COVID and I
watched DONUF with Kats, and as I've said many times,
I feel like it changed my DNA. I fell in
love with you as a viewer and as a fellow
justice person.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
You know, you really inspired me.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
And then you know, cut two years later, Courtney and
I are at crime Con and we see you in
the quoering room and I thought like tackled you because
it was like, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Oh my god, there she is.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I feel like we've chosen even cases to work on
internally at KT or documentaries because of that shift in
perspective and the power of sometimes real community and group
thought and your ethics and how wisely you came full
circle on the knowings in that.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
So yeah, we are six degreeing right now.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
I'm kind of speechless for the first time ever.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
I don't wan to say it was Okay, I'm about
to sound like a real creep body, and I did
not know deron that you were going to talk about
Don't F with Kats, So this is separate of that.
This weekend I went back and rewatched a first honk
of Oh you are magnetic, you just are. I was

(58:22):
so compelled and I think I might have told you
this before, but when I watched it, it was also
same as Stephanie sort of during COVID and you were
literally almost too good to be believed. Because what I
did was I went to IMDb. I'm like, am I
watching a scripted series?

Speaker 6 (58:37):
I get that All the time people asked me I
didn't know you were an actress and or you know,
what else have you been? What else have you acted in?
And I'm like, what are you talking about? You'd be
a great actress, though, would you be? Should we have
you on the bolt? Actress?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Definitely young and restless, young and the.

Speaker 6 (58:54):
Wrestler, the female. That's when I get rock there.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
No, but life is still long. But you would be
a great on some There were.

Speaker 6 (59:05):
So many like missteps in like that quote unquote investigation
that it was a It was a learning lesson. And
you know, I try to, you know, preach like the
tenets of ethical sleuthing. It falls on a lot of
deaf ears, but you know, I get a little irritated
a lot because I get a lot of calls from
press when there's like something with sleuthing happening on the internet,

(59:29):
and they'll be like, so, what do you think of
everybody blaming the roommates in Idahoe because I'm all worthing,
and I'm like, I have nothing to do with that.
I don't. I don't do that kind of stuff. You know.
I do things very quietly, you know what I mean, and.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
With intention bettering the world right and making us safer,
right and making us more aware and working alongside of
law enforcement. We're not looking to direct things right, absolutely not,
you know, metal well you know.

Speaker 9 (59:58):
But one of the things about that incredible series was
the way that they told the narrative. And it was
a failure of police procedure because the armchair detectives, the
home investigators, they had been signaling that this was going
to happen, and it fell on death here. And so
that's one of the biggest tragedies of this is they

(01:00:18):
could have saved the life of the victim if they
just would have followed up and listened to what the
red flags that had been brought forward.

Speaker 6 (01:00:26):
And that's all we wanted it was a knock on
the door. You know, we knew that there wasn't anything
they could really do, you know, because he was just
making threats online and killing cats. But we just wanted
a knock on the door, That's all we wanted. And
they couldn't. They wouldn't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
And I mean the valiant effort that you guys put
in you particularly, is unbelievable. Listen, this is true crime tonight.
We would love you to join our conversation where at
eighty eight three to one Crime and we are joined
by pop culture expert Doronto fear Right. Now we're talking
about what we're watching in the true crime genre, and

(01:01:01):
we would love to hear do you have anything that
we should be watching? So give us a call, hit
a talk back, smoke signals, whatever you got, body, is
there anything that comes to mind?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
I know what you're going to say. I know what
you're going to say.

Speaker 6 (01:01:19):
Let me practice go for I proposed I think last
week or the week prior to last week, that I
wanted us to watch Amy Bradley is Missing on Netflix
together and then I wanted us to have conversations about
it on the show and get listener involvement and have
us all kind of sleuth this together as like a
learning exercise. But somebody here went behind my back and

(01:01:45):
watched it in one sitting because it's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Wait, Courtney, you watched all of it? I am wait,
you watched Wait.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
That is not how the book club works.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
It's not even a book, I know. Okay, we don't
have to do fight club movie talk like we need rules, ladies.
I didn't watch it, you know how just what I
was to watch, you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:02:11):
Okay, So I watched episode one, Like I said a
couple of weeks ago, I watched episode one, and I'm hooked.
And then I'm on I'm on X and TikTok and
guess who's popping up? Amy Bradley's brother. So let me
start at the beginning. Amy Bradley and her family went
on a cruise. And while they were on a cruise,

(01:02:32):
they went to a club, and you know, Amy's dancing
with you know people at the club, and then she
is with her brother. No, no, no, this is episode this
is this is just very brief. She's out smoking a
cigarette with her brother. He goes inside. The dad wakes
up at five thirty in the morning and he sees

(01:02:52):
Amy on the patio smoking a cigarette, lounge in on
the patio. He falls back asleep. At six o'clock. Half
an hour later, she's gone and nobody has ever seen
her since her And by the way, her lighter and
cigarettes were also gone.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Okay, so her brother, you guys.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
This okay, but the brother didn't kill her, no, of
course not, no, of course not. So her brother is
releasing a bunch.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Of like evidence alleged.

Speaker 4 (01:03:24):
What is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Where?

Speaker 9 (01:03:28):
What is your thinking, president is where was the brother's motive?
Who saw the brother going into his room?

Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
Well, the dad, dad saw her. The dad saw her
on the balcony alone, because the brother went to bed.
The brother is definitely not involved, I say that. But okay,
but the brother is dropping evidence on his ex accountant
and his TikTok of like sightings of her, photos of
her that people have seen. There's there's a revelation that

(01:03:57):
she might have been sex traffic because she met assist
in the band that was like like yellow yellow or
did he kill her?

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
And this is a diversion tactic, That's what.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
I will talking about, say right now with his eyes.
So your suggestion is that nobody saw the this is terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
We don't know this brother. I don't know this brother.

Speaker 6 (01:04:17):
I don't like you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Okay, no, no, okay, we'll take it down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
That would not be ethical rights in her last, and
that is part of the investigation.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
Typically the first person.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Who saw the victim last is always a suspect.

Speaker 6 (01:04:33):
I will say that this documentary is is asking for
reform on cruise ships because when Amy Bradley went missing,
they wouldn't even stop the disembarkment at the next stop.
What yeah, like the cruise that the cruise director was like,
the cruise must go on, like we must.

Speaker 9 (01:04:49):
You know, that's a huge issue. This happened constantly technically
independent nations floating on international waters that are governed by
any individual country. So the captain becomes the all sales,
which is the dictators assaults, things that happen on cruise ships,
which is a long history of This is one of

(01:05:11):
those gray areas and it's one of those ray ares
where the investigation is hampered because you can't really get
into it. When you think about it, if this was
a private nation floating, that nation is bought paid for
by a conglomerate. It's a corporation so they're only answering
to actually the funding of the cruise ship, which is
a really scary thought. So this time people not to
feel safe on a cruise. I'm just saying, you know,

(01:05:33):
like anything, be.

Speaker 6 (01:05:34):
A cruise, be mindful of your surroundings. This documentary could
change the way some cruises operate because people are outraged
that the cruise like basically didn't do anything. This woman
went missing and they didn't do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
So again, this harkens back again covid brain. But remember
when like you got anyone got sick on a ship
back in the twenty twenties and they all had to
like just live there forever and ever and ever at
trapped in their rooms, sewage was overloading, et cetera. Is
that under the same principle that they were not therefore
governed by the same rules. Interesting, I didn't know this

(01:06:08):
little tidbit of a Oh yeah, it's crazy rock.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Have I've been living under?

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Well, listen, when we come back, we're going to figure
out which rock Stephanie is living on. Doran is going
to help us do it, and he's also going to
fill us in about a case that's been sort of
keeping him up at night. After that, we're going to
be turning the mic over to you. Do not forget
to give us a call. We're at eighty eight three
to one crime. We want to hear your thoughts. I'm Steph.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
I'm here with Courtney and Body, and we're joined by
our very own Dorano Fear, our pop culture true crime expert.
And yeah, he's been filling us in a little bit
about the Menendez update. Obviously one of them may be
released very soon. And as I say that, we actually
have a talk back. Let's go to that first.

Speaker 10 (01:07:02):
I've noticed there are so many scripted adaptations of true
crime stories being made, like the act about Gypsy Rose Blanchard,
Monster and Dahmer by Ryan Murphy, both starring hot actors
as the killers, the Ted Bundy adaptation starring Zac Efron,
and the list goes on. I get that they create
conversation and introduce people to true crime, but overall, I
think they do more harm than good because they prioritize

(01:07:23):
entertainment and shock value over education or victim advocacy. What
do you guys think, Well.

Speaker 6 (01:07:28):
Charlie Hunan's going to be playing at Gean right, I mean, like, hello, Jack,
I get more hands. He is going to be playing
like one of the worst monsters of our modern history.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
It's crazy. Yeah, I agree with her.

Speaker 9 (01:07:41):
I agree with you know it. It's funny. I am conflicted.
I'm going to use Ryan Murphy once again. You know,
I'm obsessed with talking about him. But he takes the
sexuality of horror to a whole new level. And when
he did Dahmer, he does these low panning shots that
are very cinemagraphic in nasure where he's like working out

(01:08:04):
a shirtless and sweaty and what he does is he
creates a hyper sexual component to villains and monsters, and
that's a very dangerous thing that we've entered into in
this time. And as a pop culture person, I've been
watching this go down really since the two thousands, and
even in Disney, they've taken the villains and they've turned

(01:08:25):
them into hero You know, it's great to watch the Cruella.
I think it's one of the best Disney live made movie,
live action movies of a fictional character. But you are
retelling the story when they released DC Comics release The
Joker watching Feelingxes. You know, this is a psychopath killer
that up until it was unheard of until the nineties,

(01:08:46):
where you would take a villain and turn them into
an anti hero. And that's a question about pop culture
in any kind of a setting, whether they're beautiful actors
playing the role, or whether it's the story being told.
And that's a question to ask the listeners, because how
are you being shaped by that concept, that idea, that narrative,
when evil may not be so evil, when good is

(01:09:08):
no longer good or.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Even We talked about this earlier, and Doraniene and I
have talked about this, you know, outside of the show.
It is a little confusing that we're cherry picking these
origin stories.

Speaker 8 (01:09:19):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
So, while I do agree with you, the Menendez brothers
do seem as though they are the most exemplary prisoners imaginable,
and they have repented. If in fact they were mischarged,
then yeah, they've already served their time, likely plus five years,
so they should be good to go. They got their educations.
But because of the Ryan Murphy Show, and because of

(01:09:40):
the documentary, I'm sure there are so many other cases
that therefore deserve another look with the same level of compassion.
I'm not saying that the Menendez brothers should not be released.
I just think it's confusing that not everybody gets that
same benefit.

Speaker 9 (01:09:56):
Right, well, but that's a I mean, we praise that
that is a story where there could be a positive take,
but when you take Dahmer, there is no positive take,
no true He was a vicious, predatory psychopath and the
families of those victims suffered an enormous amount, and there
is no reason to make him idolized in a version

(01:10:19):
that becomes psycho sexualized. You know those glasses which for
those that can't see me right now, I am wearing.

Speaker 6 (01:10:26):
I wear mine all the time too.

Speaker 9 (01:10:28):
It became a fashion icon. Yeah, and that is scary.
It is a scary thought.

Speaker 6 (01:10:35):
I you know, I'm on social media quite a bit,
and you know, on my algorithm of course is going
to show me all the true crime stuff and by association,
the Dahmer. And there were video after video after video
of men and women, you know, with the Dahmer character
on the screen in the workout, shirtless, sweating, just like
with the fan on them just going oh he's so hot,

(01:10:57):
and I'm like, I'm those repulsed. One of my most
viral videos is in response to one of those peoples.

Speaker 9 (01:11:05):
This is something new we know, you know, there are
very stories of people who fall in love with these
serial killers and write the love letters, including the me
Nindaz brothers who like fell in love and got married
with the woman by his side. It happens all the time,
the Memphis three. So there is an element that is
to me off kilter. And now add visuals and cinemagraphic,
you know, artistry to it. We're walking a dangerous slow I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
Don't know, Devil's advocate. Is it also a way of
packaging and story that should be told and people should
know about. And you make the packaging a little better.
I don't. I mean, I guess I'm hearing wrong when
you guys are saying people are legitimately idolizing the Damer
because even you know he was wrapped in a handsome package.
I was horrified when I I mean horrified when I

(01:11:52):
was watching it. But I don't know, I'm a little
conflicted about this.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
And to add on to that, Courtney Armstrong, you know
that takeaway. I haven't seen that scripted version in a while.
And Dahmer is the scariest of all of them, so
let that not be you know, forgotten. But I remember
the father the portrayal of his father was very meaningful
and different than I had perhaps known. So in that
regard the scripted version of the Dahmer case, wasn't Dad

(01:12:20):
sort of an interesting character in that and a unique
take on it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
He loved his son so much.

Speaker 9 (01:12:25):
Well, Rymer. He loves to do that. He loves to
tell an origin story from trauma, and he did that
with the assassination of Gianni VERSACEI remember that character and
gave it a whole backstory with a father and trying
to make it seem like that serial killer. Andrew was
not exam you know, Andrew Carnannan. Another connection I have
to him because I used to run night clubs in
Miami and he came to my club during that time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Oh wow.

Speaker 9 (01:12:47):
I didn't let him in, and he really came and said,
you know, I'm you know, King of San Diego, and
I kind of laughed and I was like, fine, you
can go inside, and he then came back outside saying
he wanted a band to get into. VIP was like,
and by the way, this is the day before the
assassination of Versachi.

Speaker 6 (01:13:03):
Shut up.

Speaker 9 (01:13:04):
Yeah. And so it was a very interesting time living
in Miami at that and the whole world died him.
I have my own theories about that that we can
postpone to another episode because I do believe that he
wasn't the murderer of AASACEI I think he was a
serial killer. I think he killed all those other people,
but he was very convenient at the time to nail

(01:13:24):
it on. Didn't promise me.

Speaker 6 (01:13:27):
That you're going to come back and talk about says,
I am obsessed with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Wait, I killed him then.

Speaker 9 (01:13:33):
And by the way, if you really want Ryan Murphy's
the assassination of Gianni Rissachi, he actually allude to the
other version of the story, whether it spiracy or allegedly.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
Okay, Kelly, you and I are going to talk because
I'm pleased. I am dying to hear what you have
to say about this, But I also really want to know. Hey,
if you have to weigh in, give us a call
at eighty and eight thirty one Crime. We want to
know what you have to say about what we're talking about.
What do you think about, you know, sexualizing these killers
in these script of TV shows. Give us a call

(01:14:02):
at eighty eight thirty one Crime or leave us a
talk back on the iHeartRadio app doron. I also have
to know about this Matrix situation, these Matrix killers.

Speaker 9 (01:14:11):
Well us, that's really why I came in.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
You know, I know we're getting so excited about it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
I know, I was like, the Matrix murders tell us everything.

Speaker 9 (01:14:20):
Well, for me, it's about the concept of when reality
glitches and what happens when people believe they're no longer
in this life time, they're no longer in this timeline,
they are in a video game simulation. Does that give
them the excuse to murder? And in two thousand and three,
Joshua Cook murdered his adoptive parents with a shotgun. He

(01:14:41):
wore a trench coat, he idolized Neo.

Speaker 6 (01:14:44):
He's the Matrix.

Speaker 9 (01:14:46):
He was inside the Matrix. Now, The Matrix came out
in nineteen nine nine, you know, it hit theaters. It
changed the world. It gave us the infamous red pill
and made you think that everything you are is not real.
But what happens when that's psychosis is then adopted into
real life. And Joshuacook used the Matrix as his defense,
which is a really crazy concept, basically saying that he

(01:15:08):
wasn't living in the real life what they do is
they take away the humanity of the victim and basically
say that they're just code. That they are not killing them,
they're unplugging them, they're freeing them. And that to me
is a really scary psychosis. Now I connect it again
to pop culture, and it is something that makes me fascinated.

(01:15:32):
Whether pop culture instigates this or not, you know, but
when victims are not made human that I find to
be terrifying. And he's not the only one, because you know,
he was considered the Matrix killer, that's what they dubbed
him in And going back to Spurts defense, the judge
did throw that out, but that maintained a defense that
happened over and over again. And I can go back

(01:15:52):
even earlier because in nineteen ninety nine, the very year
the Matrix came out, two teens in Illinois, Daniel Gill
and Robert full Are, murdered a friend. What they described
was Matrix style alternate reality. To them, it wasn't murder.
They were living inside a video game. And in two
thousand and two, Tondolin Ansley Shawn her Land lady in
the head in broad daylight, and she told the police

(01:16:15):
then that this isn't real world. We're in the matrix.

Speaker 6 (01:16:18):
Oh my god.

Speaker 9 (01:16:18):
And this is a narrative, This is a psychosis, This
is a glitch in the in the main frame, and
this is something that we need to consider as we
still deal with mental illness that consistently is feeding a
narrative that we are in a different timeline, that we're
not real that we're simulations, that we're living in a
VR world, and it's worth the discussion.

Speaker 8 (01:16:42):
Our world.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Well, it's so relevant Doron. I just this past weekend
I was listening to I don't remember where the article
was from. It was Vanity Fair, it was something, but
it was about how chat GPT is some people are
being pushed to suicide and a lot of it is

(01:17:05):
the cause of Yes, through through conversations, you are living
in a matrix and you are you know, you're the
only one who knows what's going on around you, and
it's very similar to what you're talking about, and it's terrifying.

Speaker 9 (01:17:18):
Look, we're dealing with the world right now. That is
very that it's being influenced and the AI situation is
something we can discuss in another time because I also
again have a lot of experience with AI and how
it actually functions from a psychological level. And I played
with it enough to know how it can manipulate you.
I find it fascinating, and you know we have to
then relying on the course. And you know, when it

(01:17:40):
comes to the matrix defense by the way, you know,
they say that it's something called the cod Arts delusion,
and that's where individuals believe they're dead or that nothing
around them is real. And it's a deep personalization disorder
where people feel like they're watching themselves from outside of
their body. So this is a real syndrome. And you know,
look again to do movies and media on pop culture

(01:18:02):
sort of you know, life imitate art. I don't know.
But you can also take Lee Boyd Malbo who is
the DC Sniper from two thousand and two, and while
not a matrix specific case per se, he did say
that the matrix was part of his psychological framework. He
wrote references about the red pill, and he claimed that
he was trained in the matrix. So inspiration is that

(01:18:23):
what this is?

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
It sounds so mind numbingly scary.

Speaker 6 (01:18:27):
So it sounds like, yes, I think so too, But
if it's a known illness, it must have been going
on prior to the Matrix movie release in the ninety nine,
right like it has to be, But we're going to
shelve that for another discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Thank you for being with us for so long. I
know we kind of held you hostage. We also want
to make sure that people can learn more about your
comic con greatness and where they can buy tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
Give us the scoop you're on.

Speaker 9 (01:18:52):
La ComicCon is coming. I know San Diego just happened,
that's not mine, but La comic Con is and it
is coming in September and tickets are on sale right
now at lacomic Con dot com Iconic.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Just like you're Doran, you are iconic, and you're going
to come back and talk to us a lot more
about the Andrew Kunan case and the alleged killing of Versace.
So can I just say on the docket for next week,
get okay?

Speaker 6 (01:19:19):
So to our audience and our friends and our community,
you are going to have to watch the first season
of Monsters. I think it's the first season. It is
the first one. It's by the way, it's my favorite one.
It is so good. But if he's coming back to
talk about this, I want everybody to be prepared because

(01:19:40):
it is mind blowing. And a side note is a
tali in with don'fa Katz. Luca was kind of fascinated
with him. So that's kind of like a full circle moment.
Right we have me who you know whatever, and then
you have Doran, who like knew this dude, and I
don't know, it's just kind of a weird. I'm feeling
a little trippy right now. It's all full circle. Listen yet,

(01:20:03):
table we are in the matrix? Has there been a
glitchen good line is there?

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Well if that's the case, we will definitely be back
here tomorrow, so there's no glitch in that timeline, I promise.
And as a reminder, we're here Sunday through Thursday. Hit
us up anytime at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram
and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
You could also leave us.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
A message old school on a voicemail eight eight eight
to three one crime, or you could always leave us
a talk back which is this little like voice memo.
Just download the iHeartRadio app for free and in the
top right hand corner you push this button, leave a
little message and boom. You are on the show, so
keep them coming. We're getting all of your messages about

(01:20:47):
new cases to be following, and we're we're digging in.
So if you didn't hear it right away, I promise
we're we're all doing the research and we can't wait
for tomorrow. Well we'll be back talking about way more.
Bill Gelaye Maxwell be released. I guess that's the burning question.
She can't be We'll see.

Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
I will say, I don't know, I did not know.
I actually her walking out. I don't By the way, doron,
I know everyone's already called out dibbs on stuff we
need to talk about with you in your next back,
and I want to throw one other thing out to
put on your dance card, assuming you can come back
and waltz with us, which is someone had a callback
about Rebecca Schaeffer.

Speaker 6 (01:21:28):
Oh and so.

Speaker 9 (01:21:30):
For that, the stalking, the first of the stalking murders
and by the way, one of the most tragicab old time.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
Yes, that's right, So I personally would like your expertise
on that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
So we all have I told Courtneys, all you have
to say is Rebecca Schaeffer and you'll go from there.
Because it's such a case.

Speaker 9 (01:21:48):
It's so close to our my sister saying, I mean
it was Hollywood Dark History, and I'd love to bring
a guest on that show with Menora.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
Claire, oh wreck, Oh my goodness, speak about the matrix.
This won't make sense to many people, but I worked
on a show forever that was a paranormal show, and
Leonora Claire was on one of the most beautiful, bright,
brilliant human.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
Beings and a tremendous advocate for stalking in the world.
So we'll have her on to join us in that conversation,
Petion exactly, So shout out to Leonora. We'll have you
on very very soon. And I'm crazy for you, guys.
This night has just flown by so quickly. Is each
of you so very very much and again out there,
thank you for just like hanging with us, sending so

(01:22:38):
much love your way as well. Have an incredible night,
Stay safe. This is true crime tonight. We're talking true
crime all the time.

Speaker 6 (01:22:46):
Bye everyone, Bye bye,