Grandma On Trial For Hiring Hitman; True Crime and Chill Discusses Son of Sam

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, August twenty seventh, and listen,
we have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker
and I'm here with Body Moven and Courtney Armstrong. And
before we go any further, we just have to say
that our hearts are of course with all of those
in Minneapolis tonight host these horrific shootings that have happened today.

(00:44):
We will get to that later in the show, but
you know, first we just have to say it out loud.
We are sending all of our prayers and thoughts and
love to Minneapolis tonight, and I know you all share
that sentiment. You know, later in the show, like I said,
we will be talking about that, and we're also going
to discuss this other case in California. What is the

(01:04):
story with baby Emmanuel? There are new updates we're unpacking
those as well. Also, you know, the Son of Sam
not to switch gears in a weird way, but it
is our first official What are we going to call it? Kids?
We're gonna true crime and show. So I know that
seems like a strange transition, but maybe we all need it.
We've all been watching the Son of Sam conversations with

(01:27):
you know a Killer, so hopefully you've been watching too,
and if you have, we want to hear from you.
Eight eight eight three one crime. Please jump in, tell
us your thoughts, give us your opinions. We'll be doing
this all the time. So this is our first official.
But first, you know, let's start with a talkback because listen,
last night was Talk Back Tuesday and we had so

(01:47):
many talkbacks about so many of the topics, and of
course Idaho Brian Coburger that always gets so many, So
let's start with that.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
First, hey all, step from Vamagan I just hilarious and
had to share this with y'all. I didn't get to
listen to Talk Back Tuesday Live with y'all. I had
my grand bebey. But anyway, y'all were doing the talk
backs and Annsley came on one of your one of
the callers that they call in a lot often and

(02:19):
when y'all were. She was like, Hey, it's Ansley, and
I was like, Annsley, Like, I just feel so a
part of the team. Like I'm like, I'm talking to
Ansley myself.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Anyway.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
I know it's random, but I just had to share
that with y'all.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Listen, degrees of Ansley right now, and I maybe we
can hook stuff in Ainsley up and they can like
become pen pals, you know what I mean. Like, I
think I love you to do that. You know what
that means community, and I think that is the spirit
of this. None of us have all the answers, right,
We are all just trying our best. We get to
be here every night or morning whenever you're listening, whether

(02:57):
on the podcast or live, but here we are. We're
trying to at least have this convo together. So thank
you so much.

Speaker 5 (03:04):
That was the perfect means wow, because it's a perfect
palate cleanser.

Speaker 6 (03:10):
We've we're kind of down, so we kind of needed
that burst of you know, that infusion of positivity, right.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
And we've been covering some heavy stuff, right. We even
discussed this and by the way, if you want to
add to this conversation and kind of share what you
think we should be doing and covering tonight. It's a
tough one, you know. Listen, we've all been through it.
Everyone's having long days, hopefully beautiful ones, but you know,
in the real world, it's a little muddy out there.
And you know, listen, we're talking about school shooters and

(03:40):
you know, children who may have been you know, put
into harm's way by their parents. This is tough stuff.
And on the one hand, we can't not acknowledge it
and really give it it to do proper honor. And
on the other it's tough stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
I want to talk about, you know, killer Granny that
you're going to get to very soon. I know this
Granny is so interesting, but again it's all sort of heavy.
So if we're not handling this correctly, can you let
us know? Yeah, let me tell you about killer Granny,
all right.

Speaker 6 (04:12):
So Dan Markle's twenty fourteen murder was amid like a
really bitter custody battle, and it led to charges against
his former mother in law, Donna Adelson. Okay, she's been
accused of orchestrating a murder for higher plots. Dan Markle,
the victim, by the way, he was a Harvard educated
law professor at Florida State University, and he was fatally

(04:35):
shot in this tablehassee garage in twenty fourteen. Okay, so
this is a while ago. All right, Wait, go ahead,
I was gonna say, so is that the granny though,
or we're starting with so granny killer person? Yes, Yes,
Donna Addelson is the grandmother. So she she was his
mother in law and they have children. Okay, so that's
why she's a grandmo. Okay, Well she's been charged with

(04:58):
orchestrating his murder because he was in like a really
bitter custody battle and Wendy, his ex wife, the mother
of his children, wanted to take the children to be
closer to grammy grandma and the kids nearby.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
In so grandkids nearby.

Speaker 6 (05:14):
Right, And the part of the custody arrangement is that
they had to stay within a certain range of the
home base in Tallahassee. So Dan Markle was like, no,
you're not taking my kids anywhere. You know, you're not
taking my kids to South Florida. Well Donna was like,
uh uh, you know, I want Wendy to move with
the babies to be closer to me. Well, so she

(05:35):
arranged and orchestrated this complete murder for higher plot, and
her trial started, and I'm telling you, I've been watching
it and it is like a soap opera. There are
so many it's horrifying. There are so many people involved.
And if you're not watching it, I want to kind
of bring everybody up the speed so that you can
start watching it. Okay, It's on Court TV every day,

(05:56):
and yesterday was a crazy like I feel, okay, this
is I'm just gonna start. Okay, So Donna, she's the
victim's mother in law, say it again. She's charged with
first degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation in the murder for
higher plot. The motive centers around this custody dispute. I
kind of went over that a little bit between Dan
Markle and Donna's daughter, Wendy Addelson, Okay, with Donna allegedly

(06:21):
seeking to move the children closer to the Addison family
down in South Florida, while the prosecution argues that Donna
planned and flunded the murder through her son Charles, who.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
By the way, you guys, is a dentist. Wait another dentist. Wait,
just so I get this clear, can we call Donna
Granny from this point. First, yes, just to the play along. Sure, Okay,
So granny has a daughter, and daughter has a husband, right,
and the husband nobody's feeling because there's a custody dispute, correct,
And Granny wants the husband to loosen the reins so

(06:51):
that the grandkids can come closer to her South Florida,
and he's saying hard No. Meanwhile, she has a son
who's a dentists to be a dentist, right, and the
dentist son is somehow involved with Granny. Yeah, because oh
my goodness.

Speaker 6 (07:07):
Okay, so his name is Charles, okay, and his girlfriend
used to date gang affiliated guys.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
There's well, the dentists had a girlfriend that was in
a gang and had gang affiliates.

Speaker 6 (07:20):
Yeah, gang South Florida. And she used her contacts to
hire two hitmen. What okay, I'm telling you. You need a
flow chart.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh my godness. So they're having murder meetings. Granny and
her son, so uncle are like plotting and planning because
uncle has a girlfriend who has associates in the gangs
who are like, hey, here's some cash, will you kill
this guy and put a stop to all this co parenting? Right?

Speaker 6 (07:50):
Yeah, Okay, so now that the players have been kind
of laid out, Granny, the son, the dentist, the victim. Dan,
We're gonna Dan Markle, he's the victim. Wendy is the
wife of Dan, or the ex wife of Dan, i
should say. And she's the daughter of Granny, right, and.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
She has any idea that this is happening.

Speaker 6 (08:09):
Yes, well, yeah, I think she's gonna be charged. We're gonna,
we're gonna see, We're gonna see. It's just every there's
been five people charged so far. Okay, So here I'm
gonna go over those people. Charles, he's Donna's son and
Granny's son and the dentist. Right, And he's been convicted already,
by the way, for all of this. This has been

(08:29):
going on since twenty fourteen.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I'm telling you.

Speaker 6 (08:31):
He's been convicted for having help coordinate and fund the plot.
That's Charles. And he was dating Catherine in twenty fourteen,
knowing she had connections to the Latin Kings Gang through
her ex Sigfredo Garcia. Well, he's been convicted as well. Okay, yeah,
I'm telling you, there's five people. So Catherine, now she's
also a key witness she's testifying for the state.

Speaker 7 (08:56):
It's so uncising's against granny what Yeah, but when you're
brill these multitudes of people, how does anyone ever expect
anything to stay under wraps?

Speaker 5 (09:11):
Not that I'm purporting you should keep your murder plots
for hire under wraps or have them at all.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
We know that you're not, but you would have hold
the tight lip.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
But honestly, you know your son, your son's girlfriend at
the time, that that girlfriend's ex boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I mean, good grief. Yeah. Way, they're all so crazy
educated too. This is like a super smarty band's family
money even crazier.

Speaker 6 (09:39):
They all have hash as well. Donna the grandmother was
she booked a flight to Vietnam because it's non extradition country. Like,
if you commit a crime and you go to Vietnam
and I think Italy, they won't extradite you to the
United States because we have the death penalty. Yeah. So
like if I'm just giving you like a if you

(10:00):
commit a crime, go to Vietnam because they won't send
you back to.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
The States, right hip, if you're Amanda Knox in Italy
didn't work out, well, that's that's different. That's different.

Speaker 6 (10:09):
We should give your crime tonight on iHeartRadio or joking
teerr crime all the time. Give us a call eight
to eight thirty one crime. If you've been watching this
Donna Addison Adolsen trial, give us a call.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Let me know.

Speaker 6 (10:19):
I want to know what you guys think about all
these crazy characters that we're talking about. So the FBI
conducted years long research, and I remember reading about this
case because I was covering the Jared Bridigan case and
you know, that's another week case we should probably cover.
But he was killed in a really similar way. And

(10:40):
there's a law that was created because of Dan Markle's
death in Florida called the Markel Act, and that gives
grandparents the right to the children, the surviving children, when
in fact the family of the perpetrator.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Is responsible for the death.

Speaker 6 (10:58):
Okay, which is very SIMI lord of Jared Bride again's case,
and also, by the way, in Florida fortless. So I
don't know what's going on in Florida, but you guys
need to.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Stop it, Okay. It seems like it's in the water.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
So excuse me, body, just so I understand the law.
So if we make believe that I put out a
hit on my husband.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
What Courtney Armstrong take a knob. Yes, I'm just trying
to Claire no a pretend example. I don't like that example. Okay, okay, okay, yes,
fair enough.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
So a woman puts out a hit on her husband
and father of her children, then those children will go
to the father the victim's parents.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Is that correct? If they want them right?

Speaker 6 (11:41):
So? Yeah, because normally grandparents don't have any rights. So
the Marvel Act is inspired by Dan Markle. So when
I was doing all this research, I started researching this
case back then. This was like in twenty twenty, so
I've been following this for quite some time. And the
FBI was listening in at a restaurant when the dentist,

(12:02):
who we know has also been convicted, was talking to
his girlfriend about the hit and the FBI was there
recording it all. So the FBI has been involved, and
they conducted years long undercover stings, including surveillance, phone taps,
and a twenty sixteen bump operation targeting Donna directly. So
Donna was arrested in twenty twenty three, fairly recently at

(12:23):
Miami International Airport while she was attempting to flee to Vietnam,
so that because she knew the people around to her,
she knew what was going on, and she was like,
I got to get the heck out of here.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
And she booked a one way ticket to.

Speaker 6 (12:37):
Vietnam and was never going to come back, and they
arrested her at the airport. I'm literally getting on the
plane feet from safety. Oh yeah, feet from safety. Like
it's crazy. So the evidence they have against her, they
have text calls, emails linking Donna to Charlie and the
girlfriend again who's been convicted right already around the killing dates,

(12:58):
testimony from the girl friend. She's testifying against granny right
and her boyfriend is also justifying against her too.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I'm going to keep going.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
Keep it here because listen, we're gonna come back to this,
and also we're going to be covering the latest on
Californian's baby Emmanuel and what is happening in that case,
and also what is going on with Party B. Her
big long nails come into play. Keep it here to
your crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Why are you filling us in on this wild story
about a killer granny who is now seeing her day
in court. The family is falling to pieces, it seems,
like a house of cards. So bady, sorry for the
commercials to interrupt them. Slow here, where were you gotta
pay the bills?

Speaker 6 (13:53):
Right?

Speaker 2 (13:53):
You got to pay the bill?

Speaker 6 (13:55):
So killer Granny Okay, Wendy Aedelson, right, I'm sorry, No,
Donna Edelson. Wendy is her daughter. Sorry, my bad, so
Donna Edelson. She's on trial right now for the first
degree murder of her son in law, Dan Markle. And
I wanted to give a brief overview for those who
are just joining us of all the players because it
can get confusing. I'm doing my best to try to
tell this in a linear fashion, but man, I'm kind

(14:17):
of jumping all over the place, so let me start.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (14:20):
So Dan Markle is the victim. He was gunned down
in his tally Hassegive home, like right in his garage.
He had just kind of dropped his kids off, and
I think he was pulling in and getting out of
his cargo into his house and he was gunned down. Now,
the people responsible, okay, are his ex wife's family. Okay,
And I'm gonna go through those people, all right. Charles Aedelson, Okay,

(14:43):
he's Granny's son. He's a dentist. His girlfriend, Catherine. She
has gang affiliations with the Latin Kings, and so she
recruited two people, you know, to do this hit. And
they were the two hitmen, Lewis Rivera and Sigfredo Garcia.
They were convicted in twenty sixteen. Okay, Sigfredo, I think

(15:07):
he took a plea deal, and Louis Rivera was like,
I think he was prosecuted directly. So those people have
all been convicted already of this crime. The grandmother, Donna,
is on trial right now. The trial is every day.
You can watch it like on all kinds of different channels.
You just google it, you'll find it. And I'm kind

(15:28):
of addicted, and I kind of want you guys to
get addicted with me. So I wanted to tell the story.
So those people have already, you know, they've already had
their trials. Here's what I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Wendy. Wendy is the ex wife of Dan, the victim.

Speaker 6 (15:46):
Okay, So Donna the grandmother is her mom. Okay, Well,
she testified yesterday, and based on the things that she
said yesterday, I kind of think maybe she might be
seeing some charges soon. She has denied any involvement, even
though her brother has been convicted already and her mother

(16:07):
is on trial right now. Okay, she has denied any involvement.
She said, I was not involved in any plot to
kill Dan Markel the victim.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (16:16):
She said her mom was overbearing. She said Donna micro
managed her life. Wendy did admit to using derogatory terms
to describe her ex husband. Notably, she called him an std,
a dark lord, and an emotional terrorist just three weeks
before he was killed, saying that these comments reflected her

(16:38):
emotions at the time. You know, they were going through
a really bitter custody battle for you just joining us. Dan
Markle did not want to let Wendy, his ex wife,
take their two children down to South Florida. He lives
in Tallisea up in northern Florida, well in that area,
and he didn't want his children to be taken away
too far from him. So he was denying her the

(16:58):
ability to move to self Florida, where her mom and
whatnot lives. Well, grant Grandma, that's the grandma, right, so
testifying about like all the family dynamics and whatnot. Wendy
again she's the ex wife, confirmed that Donna, the grandmother,
was upset that the court ruled she had ruled and
the children had to stay in Tallahassee. So Grandma was upset.

(17:22):
Well wait, I just got to.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Jump in here. So wait, Granny is looking out for
her daughter. Basically, she's basically saying, I don't like my
daughter's now ex husband, right right, fing that correctly, Yes,
I would like my daughter to have her take her
children with him closer to me, and therefore I'm going
to put a hit out on him, which is Banana's.

(17:47):
But she's in some weird, demented way, I assume looking
out for her daughter and her daughter's custody plan, which
again is bananas.

Speaker 5 (17:56):
Right, Okay, looking out for her daughter, I suppose that's
on lens in which to view this through. But then
what about her son leaving him for dead and saying
help me out, and you know, help with the financials.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Her entire family down the exactly. It reminds me a
little bit of the piked and massacre and hideous scenario
that is happening in Pike County where a mother and
a father and uncles think they're doing the right thing
by the kids to have more time with them. Yet
they're all behind bars now and everybody that has immediate

(18:30):
influence is gone because of their twisted and demented and
dopey planned.

Speaker 6 (18:37):
It reminds me of Jared Rdigan exactly on the podcast
that we did together, exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Can you fill someone in on what that even means?

Speaker 6 (18:46):
While Jared Bridigan was gunned down, he was driving home
with his little girl in the backseat, and he was
gunned down because he got out of the car to
move a tire from the middle of the road like
it was but he couldn't keep driving. He was going
down a little street and when he got out to
move this tire, he was gunned down. Well, turns out

(19:07):
that he was gunned down by a hitman hired by
his ex wife. Yeah, Shanna, and they're on trial right now.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, we're going to be following that very closely. In Body,
we did the podcast R A KKY Studios, also on
iHeart Kristin Bride again.

Speaker 6 (19:20):
By the way, she is the wife of Jared, who
is lovely, the loveliest, the loveliest, and she created a foundation.
Did you guys know about this foundation? She cours amazing
So when this all happened, with Jared. The police came, obviously,
and they had his daughter was in the back seat,
you know, his little girl. I think she was two
at the time, and the police took her to the

(19:42):
police station and she didn't have a blanket, her biles, toys, nothing,
and she sat there for hours. And so she's two
years old. And so Kristen Bride again created this foundation
where she creates these boxes and delivers them to police
stations full of supplies for toddlers and the children that
would be in this kind of situation. It's the sweetest
thing ever. I love Kristin Bard again, She's amazing. Any

(20:03):
Who I'm digressing, This is true.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Who's also a widow and her children are growing up
without their beautiful father and their mother. What a senseless,
ridiculous crime. And it's shocking to me that granny thought
this was the way to go. They are educated, they
have access, they have cash in their pocket, right, So this.

Speaker 6 (20:24):
Is true crime tonight and I Hart Radio, you were
talking Torue crime all the time. We were right in
the middle of going over the Dan Markle case which
is now being tried against Donald Aedelson. She is the
former mother in law of Dan Markle. And I'm just
kind of giving everybody the deats on what we know.
So again, the FBI conducted this year's long undercover sting.

(20:45):
Wendy is testifying. Wendy was don or Dan Markle's ex wife,
the daughter of Granny, who is Donna Edelson, who is
on trial right now. There's just a lot going on.
So there's a something about the whereabouts of Wendy on
the morning of the murder. So on July eighteenth or

(21:06):
twenty fourteen, Wendy said that she was driving near Dan's
home when she saw the police tape. She stopped and
she was concerned, but she didn't call Dan or the
preschool where her children were. Prosecutors noted that her ex
husband had earlier given her his day schedule, including jim plans.
So it's a little sus that she didn't like she

(21:27):
saw the police state, she saw the stuff, and she
didn't do anything.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
It's very very interesting police stape. It's so scary.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
And if it's the house of the father of your children, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Or is it possible that she maybe just assumed it
was nothing and it was somebody.

Speaker 6 (21:44):
Else maybe, Yeah, it's listen, it's entirely possible, she is
denying any involvement. She also denies ties to other conspirators,
like Catherine, who is the girlfriend who had the of
the dentist who had the gang ties. Her name is Catherine.
In she said that Catherine's relationship with her brother Charlie
described her as just another girlfriend among many who all

(22:07):
looked somewhat similar.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Ooh, she's basically brother under the bus.

Speaker 6 (22:11):
Yeah, she's around behind others and she's trying her mom
out to the bus saying, you know, my mom sent
me this weird email on the day.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
You know.

Speaker 6 (22:20):
July thirty first was the final divorce hearing date between
her and Dan, and Wendy testified about a disturbing email
from her mom sent prior to this critical divorce hearing.
It read the rest of your life and consequently Dad's
mine and yes, even Charlie's will be affected by how
well you can perform act before July thirty first. You

(22:41):
can be a good actress when you want to. I've
seen you in action. You need to put on the
performance of your life. Wow meaning what meaning? You better
behave at your divorce hearing and get full custody of
these kids, because if you don't.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
We're all affected. Okay, So why is somebody considered an
actor or why would Granny say her daughter has to
put on the show of a lifetime to prove that
she's a good mother. Well, I think she Donna. Granny
was trying to tell Wendy, the daughter or the wife,
the mother of the two kids, that hey, listen, you
better throw Dan under the bus and get full custody

(23:15):
of these kids. Tim in a very ny situation.

Speaker 6 (23:20):
And she didn't do very well, obviously because Dan had
the kids and was like, you're not taking my kids, Like,
what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, like it's it's pretty jarsy, it's pretty you know.
I'm so curious about Granny's background. I feel like we
want to dig into that a little bit. Can we
continue this forever? And yeah, because I am a little curious. Yeah,
so she noticed the Crazys. Yeah there's something about a
TV as a hit man. And I missed that part

(23:48):
of the hearing because I had a meeting. So I
missed that part of a meeting. So I just kind
of had to read up on it. And I still
don't kind of get it.

Speaker 6 (23:54):
If you know, give me a call eighty eight thirty
one Crime or Hit Us on the talkbacks on the
iHeart Radio app.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I need to know more about this TV.

Speaker 6 (24:02):
That's someone's initials A literal TV, so Wendy's vision. Wendy
received a TV as a divorce present. The prosecutors hinted
that the gift was code and because it was mentioned
by her brother Charlie again the dentist joking that the
TV was cheaper than hiring a hitman. So Wendy maintained

(24:22):
it was just a literal gift and the geek squad
had been sent to fix it on the morning of
Dan's murder, emphasizing that it wasn't code for violence. But
there's something with this TV that I'm missing because it's
like a big piece of evidence that they keep talking about.
I need to go rewind court TV and like watch
this part about the TV again.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, Granny and uncle were just like this guy is enough.
We're all said to him. It's very weird. It's like
insane that somebody would actually follow through with that plan.
I know, you know, people say the silliest stuff, right, Oh,
my son in law, I could imagine there's been you
know how many times has that been said.

Speaker 6 (24:56):
Right, Well, one really important thing. Her credibility is kind
of like up in the air because she's testifying under
a grant of immunity by the way, who meaning Wendy
the White Yeah, she's got immunity right now, meaning her
statements can't be used against her. But guess what, prosecutors
maintain they can still pursue charges if they believe there's evidence.

(25:16):
So there might be more charges coming. There might be
more people going to prison because of this murder. And
I think Wendy might kind of get some kind of
conspiracy charges or maybe accessory after the fact or something.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
So we're happening. So this kid said, everybody's fighting over
I mean, can you imagine?

Speaker 5 (25:32):
This is one to watch And we will absolutely continue
following this and especially put our lens into what is
doing with Granny and what her background is. Too many players,
too many players.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
And listen, don't forget. Tonight is our first official true
crime and chill documentary watchback party, So we want to
hear from you eight eight eight three one crime. You
can also hit us up in our socials at True
Crime Tonight Show on Instagram and TikTok, or you could
also find us on Facebook at True Crime Tonight, or

(26:13):
you could always leave us a message or hit us
up on our talkbacks. Just download the radio the iHeartRadio
app top right hand corner, press the button and boom.
You were on the show, Boddy. You did a very
good job breaking down that very case. But we have
to be able to play a long air quotes. I
know word, but like we want to be able to

(26:35):
understand as we start to track this trial. And I
think you did a great job breaking that down, and
I think I could speak for all of us. We're
really interested in following this more so absolutely, Granny. You're
confusing us, Granny. These are very complicated, bad choices to
be making Granny no better. So I'm hoping it's not true,

(26:57):
and we will be following this very close. Ye, Granny
and son is behind bars. It just seems like this
has gone awry in a very big way. Speaking of which,
Courtney Armstrong, you were going to lead us down another
very unhappy path, but it has to be done because
it's appropriate. And yeah, where is that? Where is baby Emmanuel?

(27:19):
Baby Emmanuel?

Speaker 5 (27:20):
So there have been some updates Baby Emmanuel's parents, Rebecca
and Jake Harrow, they are facing murder charges. This is
following Emmanuel's disappearance and is presumed death. Emmanuel is seven
months old and his parents, Rebecca and Jake, falsely claimed
he was abducted. Authorities now are saying that this poor

(27:42):
baby died from They're calling it long term abuse at
the hands of his parents, and that this kidnapping report
was a part of a way to deliberately mislead investigators.
I pause, I'm sickened by even the term long term abuse.
This baby was seven months into his life. Or we
can't say definitively, what is a.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Baby, dude to get you so irritated that you abuse it? Like,
I don't get it? Yeah, I mean nothing is the key?

Speaker 8 (28:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Nothing what they do?

Speaker 4 (28:13):
Like?

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Officials are now saying they have a strong indication of
the location of baby Emmanuel's remains.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
However, in this moment that has not come to light.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
New cart documents have revealed that he could have been
killed as early as August fifth, which is nine days
before his mother reported him missing.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Wow, that's happened before, right. We've seen story value, glory value.
Mario and Jack Gabell of Anthony. Anthony infamously it takes
a real sicko. It does that off. Can you imagine
for nine days, you're denying, going about your life, just
putting on clothes. Do you remember food?

Speaker 6 (28:56):
When we first reported this, I had mentioned that people
at the the initially what happened was a manual. They
said that they were at this like sporting event, and
they she needs mom needed to go to Big five
to get like a mouthguard. And she goes to Big
five and has to change in manual's diaper and she
gets attacked in the Big five parking lot and somebody
kidnaps a manual and they say, oh, lot, hits a round.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yes she does. Are racially charged right for people to
be looking for someone of a certain descent, which is
also extra gross. Just pile it on. It reminds me
of but oh yeah, well sure, let's blame it on
people who are being ripped off the streets. I know,
god so.

Speaker 6 (29:39):
But my point in bringing that up was though that
people reported back then that they never saw a manual
at this event, Like, what was she talking about?

Speaker 2 (29:47):
So he wasn't even anyway, I digress, it's live pants
on fire. Yeah, she's a sicko. And if this ends
up being true, and Courtney started to jump on you,
but I know you're thinking the exact same thing, you know.
So it's one of those ones where am I right?
The cops say they think they know where he's at.

Speaker 5 (30:08):
Yeah, they this specifically, they said they have strong indication,
officials have said of the location, so again they're not.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
That's as far as has been reported right now.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
We also know that Riverside County prosecutors have asked that
the parents be held in lieu of a million dollars
in bail, and I think that's the right choice, to
keep them locked up as things are sorted out. And
at a press conference, the DA confirmed that the child

(30:40):
died as a result of sustained abuse. And we also
know that the couple as of yet, has not confessed
since being taken into custody.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
I would, of course know that I am.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
I don't understand either, so I think it will come
to clarity as officials put more out. But I'm very
unclear as well of how they can confirm without Emmanuel's
poor body.

Speaker 6 (31:05):
It's hard to do without no body case, right, Like,
this is a basically what they call a no body case,
and these are really hard to prosecute very I.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Would go on record I think we should put money
on it. I would say, not that we want to
put money on something so tragic. However, Dad is turning
on mom as do you think? Is my guess? Oh? Really?
So any of their substantiated thoughts. I think at this
point we're dealing with two extreme low lifes. And yeah,

(31:35):
it's every man for themselves. There is no love here,
and this couple is being brought up on charges together
and one of them will turn on the other and
that will mean a lot.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
Well, and this is Jake Harrow. This is not the
first time he has been embroiled in such terrible crimes.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Back in twenty twenty.

Speaker 5 (31:56):
Three, which was not a long time ago, he played
guilty to child abuse. This involved another infant and at
the time he received a suspended sentence and work release
instead of prison time. The DA has come and publicly
criticized the judicial system for failing to incarcerate him because
of this child former child abuse case, and he is

(32:21):
going so far as to blame that for Emmanuel's death.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
He should, by the way, that child also has lifelong
issues that will be dealt with by that child, not
by Emmanuel's screwed up dad, but by that child he
now has to be cared for in day one till
day one. Ever, they will not have a full life
according to reports. And yeah, it seems like he has

(32:48):
struck again.

Speaker 6 (32:48):
And it's my understanding too that the DA was so
upset by this terrible sentence that he got that the
DA even refused to sign the sentencing paperwork. The judge
just did it like on his own. That's my understanding.
I was reading about it today because the DA, the
DA had a press conference today and they were like
they land out to the judge in the case of

(33:10):
his other you know, the daughter that he've used.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
Well, given ahead, I was gonna say, given the evidence
of what Jake, this father did to that girl, I
mean his daughter does, as you said, Stephanie, have permanent injuries,
broken ribs, fractures that are healing, a skull fracture, a
broken leg, and she will be bedridden for life, according

(33:33):
to reports.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Can you imagine. I mean, so this girl has broken
legs and a skull that's been beaten in and she
will be bedridden according to reports as of today. Miracles happen,
and I believe that it will in this case, but
this sicko decides to go fall in love again and
have yet another baby. And this is where this story ends. Yeah,

(33:56):
this system is broken. Something is not right in this
weirdo mom is going around blaming some other. You know,
she's literally bliming in it. It's shocking. She's literally saying,
oh yeah, and everything leads to her. So if you
think other, right, not him? I think both of them,

(34:17):
But I think they're going to turn on each other
and they're both equally culpable. This is my opinion, by
the way, allegedly, allegedly allegedly, this is my opinion based
of many things that I have in fact read. So
it's not just out of the sky, but it does
appear that, yeah, they were in it together. They lie together,
and in order to survive, one of them will eat

(34:37):
the other.

Speaker 6 (34:38):
And do I see the video of her looking for
Immanuel out It.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Was probable ridiculous, the most real, horrendous act of a
human And by the way, we talk about this quite
a bit, but to see a mom pretend acting to
be looking for her child, that she's well aware of
the fact that that child is not where she's looking
for him hopefully he's alive and well and someplace safe.

(35:06):
It doesn't appear that the police believe that's the case
based on recent events, and this really the search and
this press conference. But how do you sleep at night?
I know, I know, well, we not talk about it.
It's so rough. I'm so mad. I know we can.
Let's you know what, Let's let's do some talkbacks.

Speaker 6 (35:28):
This is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio, Eyebody Moving, and
I'm here with Courtney and Stephanie and we have been
talking about missing, possibly murdered baby Emmanuel.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
We want to hear from you.

Speaker 6 (35:38):
Give us a call eight to eight thirty one crime
or hit us up on the talkbacks on the iHeart
Radio app. Let's let us close us for now until
we get some more updates, and we'll respad with nothing
but respect, nothing but love.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
It's just for am Manuel and his family who loves him,
but mom and dad. I'm not feeling good about you
guys right now, and I hope I'm wrong. Yeah, let's
do a talk back.

Speaker 9 (36:00):
Lets Hey guys, it's Christy Feinberg. I live in O'calla, Florida,
and I listened to y'all all the time. I wanted
to make a comment about the Brian Colberger case with
reference to the fact that they're saying that there was
no connection between him and the students. I was looking
at listening to another very reliable source the other day,

(36:23):
and they have forensics that actually had been to the
Mad Greek a couple of times. He wiped it, so well,
there's no way of telling whether he actually attached to
their Wi Fi. But two of the women children, if

(36:44):
you will, worked at that restaurant, So I haven't heard
that yet on your podcast, So I just.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Want to put that out better. Yeah, it's a big topic,
by the way, and yeah, we have to correct missus Pernodle.
Both worked to the and it had been really speculated about.
We had it actually in the documentary The Idaho Student
Murders airing on Peacock, and we had to pull it
out right because prior to this dump by law enforcement,

(37:13):
we couldn't prove it. It had been long talked about,
it had been discussed publicly, there was tons of chatter
about it, but we were not able to air it
legally because we couldn't actually place him there.

Speaker 6 (37:26):
So for those who don't know, it was actually Basically,
his Google Maps placed him near This is through the
Celebrate data that we got from the Barnharts, and I
think that's who the talkback was talking about, the Barnharts
who worked with Celebrate their Celebrate experts. They analyzed Brian

(37:46):
Coberger's phone, but he was so good at wiping it,
but they were able to pull like his Google Maps
history and he appeared on around the Mad Greek restaurant
a couple different times for my memory. So yeah, there
could be some kind of like where he saw them
for the first time maybe and maybe he.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Was like, oh, got fixited, got fixcated a little bit.
I don't know. Well, we're going to keep going listen.
If you've missed any of the show, No stress, you
can always catch us right after as the podcast and
we're switching gears here by the way, we want to
just hear from you, so let's go straight from our
talk back.

Speaker 6 (38:22):
Ladies.

Speaker 10 (38:23):
Absolutely love listening to you every morning on my morning walk.
And Boddy just said that she doesn't know her neighbors.
She's lived there for X amount of years. I have
to wonder, do they know you, they appreciate what you did?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Do they not like what you do.

Speaker 10 (38:41):
I'm shocked they've never reached out to you in any manner.
So that's what I wanted to make it. And I
love listening to you every day. Keep up the good work.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
The sleuth is being so yeah. Let me tell you something.
Let me ask you. Do you have any of your
neighbors who are secretly well aware of who you are
and what you're talking about every night? Here with us.
Let me tell you something.

Speaker 6 (39:06):
If I leave my house, I run to it's nine
million degrees here, Okay, I run to my car. I
started out in my car. I'm like, Alexa, start my
car ten minutes before I even leave.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I wait, exactly, you start on yoursache? Yes? Do you
wear eyeglasses and a hat? Yes? Mustache?

Speaker 6 (39:24):
It's a little it is so hot. So I run
to my car and I get and I leave, and
then I come home. I open my garage, I get in,
I don't. I literally don't go outside. I when I
if I do, I'm only in my car. Mostly, are
you afraid of the chatty neighbors?

Speaker 2 (39:39):
The sun? I was gonna say, that's why your skin's
are so little irish, right, we all have to sort
of be aware of the beating sun. Right, it's it's
terrible here, honest, I'm being so for real, Right, are
you wearing sun screen every day? Every day? Every single day?
I wear sometey wears like a hole like she wears.
She wears like a full throttle scarf. She's a full gear.

Speaker 6 (40:01):
So no, my neighbors, I don't even know if they've
ever seen me, to be honest with you, because I don't,
you know, I don't interact with them.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
And it's not that I don't like them, I don't
know them.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
And I really, quite frankly, when I moved to a
retirement home, which probably going to be soon, but when
I moved to a retirement home, it's going to be
like a complete culture shock to me because my understanding
is those communities, they are all in your business right
from where I live now, you're in everybody else's business.
So not my neighbors. Though not my neighbors. My neighbors

(40:32):
I leave alone like I don't bother them, they don't
bother me.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
It's a wonderful relationship. I love it.

Speaker 5 (40:38):
I'm going to tell you something that I think will
give you a panic attack. So I was away recently,
which is why I was not on the show, and
I'm so happy I'm back. But long story short, some
work was being done on the house. We got a
call that construction could not continue unless the safe in our.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
House was open.

Speaker 5 (40:59):
So I had to call my next door neighbor, who
thankfully is absolutely lovely, and walk her through literally opening
the safe and removing the contents of the safe.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
So that is a trusted neighbor. Yeah, that is a
trusted neighbor. First of all, why are you saying that
you have a safe? It's very Kim Kardashian and there's.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
Nothing in it, and it's like three pieces of paper
that no one would care about.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
It's honest to god, I don't know why you have
the same. Yeah, it's not. I promise all of my
jewels are from Target. Listen, don't mess the Target tools.
I love the Target who recently moved. I spent a
lot of time at Target recently. But home Goods is
my happy place. If you have not jumped into a

(41:49):
Tgmax home goods, it is like that there is very
few things that is scented candle in a throw pillow
cannot cure. Honestly, it really does make me please and Courtney, i'mstrung.
Lives right by one of the best ones and she
never has ever gone. I don't I know, it drives
stuff any crazy. I don't get like it's literally in

(42:10):
walking distance. I know. Okay, Sorry, we didn't even get
to Okay, more on this to come. We'll be right back,
very exciting to come. This is true crime tonight. We
are talking true crime all the time. To hang with
us and listen, there's some heavy stuff happening tonight. It

(42:35):
is undeniable. So we do actually want to hear from you.
Is is this something we're supposed to hang with and
really stay with? Should we talk about other stuff? It's
like a sensitivity thing. We're not totally sure even what
you would like to talk about. So if you have
a chance, reach out, give us some guidance because we're
so in this with you, and honestly, on a day

(42:58):
like today, I'm just glad we're all together. So thank
you for listening. And Courtney Europe, what should we go
to first?

Speaker 5 (43:07):
Well, we are going to talk about the alleged Tennessee
quadruple murderer, Austin Drummond. So he still is claiming his
innocence as a refresher July.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
The end of July July.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
Twenty ninth, there was an abandoned seven month old baby
found in a stranger's driveway. That baby was identified as
the daughter of James and are Adriana Wilson. Okay, About
forty miles from this abandoned baby, the bodies of four
family members, James Wilson, Adriana Williams, the two parents, Courtney

(43:44):
Rose and Brayden Williams. They were later discovered in a
wooded area. The very next day. Austin Drummond was identified
as a suspect and the manhunt for him began. Well,
he has since been captured and arrested, and he now
is claiming at this that he was working as a
confidential FBI informant.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Oh yeah, so he says he was working with the FBI.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
He was targeting drug traffickers, corrupt officials, and gang leadership
and his hover was blown and that led him to
being framed for the four murders, which I wish you
could hear my eyem.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, let's play that out. Can wait? Just play out
just as the in the spirit of Devil's advocacy. What
is he saying? So he was working for the FBI. Yeah,
he's in a very high stakes situation. Maybe he has
interesting access to interesting cases and a lot of pressure.
To your point, Courtney, so how does this lead to

(44:47):
the murders?

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Okay, he states this.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
Also, he states he was quote directly involved in the
four murders, however, innocent of the details. He further claims
that after these murders happened, he fled out of fear
for his own life, not because of guilt.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
So this guy, in.

Speaker 5 (45:07):
Terms of playing it out, Stephanie, also, let's go ahead
for a moment and assume that this is not true
and that this guy is not, you know, king of
the FBI. How did he see this playing out that agents?
Is he going to say, Oh, they'll say no, I'm
not in the FBI. And then I'll say, of course
they have to say that because I'm an informant, Like,

(45:28):
what's the end game here?

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Well, so is it possible. Let's just play out the
informant thing. So he's an informant. Let's just go there.
Let's just go on a limb. He's an informant, and
the FBI is saying, we have to kill all these people,
and you have to play along, so come with us,
don't say a word. That's right. They're like, Oh, it's
like ring and run. My brothers used to do that.

(45:50):
We would run. They would like make me go with them,
and I'd be so psyched and they knock on the
door and ring the doorbell and then they leave me
there and then they would answer that brother right, like
that was the worst game ever. But is it a
version of that? Could that be? I mean that seems
to me what Drummond is claiming. Here's the thing.

Speaker 6 (46:10):
I think it is possible he could be an FBI informant, like,
you know, working with somebody maybe in prison that he
dealt with, you know, getting information or whatever. But I
absolutely do not believe that they were like, oh, let's
go kill somebody, you know what I mean, Like, none
of that happened. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna put money
on it now, None of that happened, None of it.

(46:30):
What's crazy to me is that he's going with it.
He knows that the FBI is going to come right
back and be like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, that's what I'm saying. What where does he think
this ends? I don't know what the game. But you
know what, if you were talking against the FBI, let's
just go there for one brief second. You want to
play this is not true. I know this is untrue,
and I know this guy is up to no good,
but let's just pretend for a second. So you're in
the FBI. I have a friend whose father was in

(46:59):
the FBI. I have to whisper because I'm afraid to
even talk about it. And he didn't know until the
end of days. And it shaped every piece or the reality.
So you're in the business of lying. You have to
like kind of you know, or they see it. You know,
all the scary things. Right if you're you're a spy,
you're in the CIA, you're you know, I want to

(47:21):
you can't talk about your business because it's so important, right,
So what if suddenly he was embroiled in this scheme.
He can't ask questions because you're you're not allowed, and
now suddenly he's left with the murder bag. No, even
as I say it, I want to hit myself in

(47:42):
the face. I get it, not more than I want to,
because body, you posted a photo.

Speaker 5 (47:48):
Oh my god, us, oh so great, and you just
get it. It's yeah, yeah, Boddy is is it photoshop
or AI or whatever you are Larry Photos.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I know it's so good. Sorry, I digress. That's how
much I care because I think he is for sure
a liar. Yes. Do I get a golden star for
identifying that.

Speaker 5 (48:12):
Early on, so early in the process. So go ahead, Yeah,
I was just gonna say, Austin Drummond, listen. We will
continue following this and the prosecution is planning to seek
the death penalty and he Drummond remains in jail without bond,
so more to come. His next court hearing is scheduled

(48:35):
for September fourth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 6 (48:39):
I have new the status news YEP to run with.
So this is about the Minneapolis church shooting, which you know,
it's so hard to.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Talk about, so brutal, but we have to, We absolutely
have to.

Speaker 6 (48:52):
Right, So, a former student opened fire on a school mass.
These these kids were at church, Minneapolis Catholic Church, killing
children and injuring seventeen others before taking their own life.
The shooting occurred at Annunciation Catholic Church during a traditional
back to school mass attended by students and staff. The attacker,

(49:16):
we're not going to say their name is a twenty
three year old ex student with a really troubled past
and a violent online presence, carried out the attack using
multiple firearms. The gunman fired through the church windows during
the mass, killing an eight and ten year old. Oh

(49:37):
just horrific. Seventeen others were wounded, including fourteen children and
three elderly prishioners. The attacker had previously attended the school
and was the child of a former school employee.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
So there's ties, right.

Speaker 6 (49:52):
Social media accounts revealed really disturbing diary entries. There's like
a half baked manifesto that I really quite frankly, you
know me and manifestos, I really don't have any interest
in reading, which is odd for me. It's very odd
for me. Maybe given some time in space, I will,
but right now I just have no interest. And sketches
of the church layout, there's like drawings of where people

(50:15):
are sitting, the altar, everything. It's really disturbing. Doors to
the church had been barricaded from the outside.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
And do you know he knew this, He was planning this.
He even showed photos. Right.

Speaker 6 (50:31):
So, the FBI is treating this incident as a domestic
terrorist incident and religiously motivated hate crime, which I you know,
I think is very appropriate. This is a hate crime.
The weapons used was a rifle, shotgun, and pistolal I'm sorry, pistol.
And they were all legally obtained. So that's where we know.
That's what we know right now, and this just happened today,

(50:52):
So as details come in, we'll keep you updated. But
that's where we're at right now. So this is true
cranme tonight on iHeart Radio. We are talking true crime
all the time. And Stephanie, I understand you might have
some more lighthearted news for us about little nas or something.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
I can't switch gears so quick, you can't back so
I too, I know. So this is the line. I'm
not sure what the line is here, but here we are.
We're talking about a school shooter. Yet again, we've only
been on the air ourselves, as we're technically a new show,
and we've talked about multiple school shootings. And listen, this

(51:31):
is not like a soapbox, right, We're not. We have
no agenda. I am convinced that our audience is so
clever and so smart that we can actually come up
with some I don't know, some suggestions. Something in the middle,
it seems like we are in a loop. It's like
a horrible loop that none of us can get out of.

(51:53):
I know we can all agree. Anybody who can hear
my voice right now knows that we do not want
to see more school shootings period. I don't want to
see mass shooting. School shooting. Yeah, you don't want to
see any of it. And listen, so many want to
carry guns, nothing but respect. So many are afraid nothing
but respect. This is like, okay, we're deadlocked. How do

(52:17):
we find a solve? So again, heavy topic, but what
can we take from it? If there's any suggestions? And
I don't have one other than I do, we should
be doing mental health checks, much like we're doing when
you get your driver's license that is the same to
get a gun, all of the things. My personal opinion

(52:37):
counts for none of this. But here we are, And
rather than just repeating it and talking about it and
just restating the captain obvious of hideousness, what can we
make happen?

Speaker 6 (52:50):
What can we do better? I think I think a
good starting point. You didn't ask me for my opinion.
I'm gonna get it.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
I want it because I think we're not talking politics.
Right now? This humans. I know how smart and human
we all are. We're all talking about very high stakes
emotional stuff.

Speaker 6 (53:08):
I think a good starting point. I mean, obviously I
don't think. I don't think. Here's the thing you can't
put You can't put it back in the bag, right,
you can't. You can like the guns, the guns are here.
Nobody is fighting even that.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
That's we're not even no one suggesting no guns are here.

Speaker 6 (53:24):
So let's let's focus on our mental health, right, you
know we I was, I was talking about this a
while ago. I had to make a therapy appointment and
I'm still waiting for somebody to call me and it's
been months months.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Think about that?

Speaker 11 (53:40):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I mean, that's just state of the times.

Speaker 11 (53:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
So you're reaching out asking I'm reaching.

Speaker 6 (53:45):
Out for help and I can't. And I have great
health insurance. What about people that don't, that don't even
have health insurance?

Speaker 2 (53:53):
What do they do?

Speaker 7 (53:54):
Right?

Speaker 11 (53:54):
You know?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
When they buy and then they shoot it at school?
That's the are because that in the very unhealth the mind,
that is without pools, maybe jumps to a decision that
anybody in their right mind wouldn't make. Right, So we're
talking from grace and we're talking with empathy here, so
there's like a judgment and no pocks on any houses.

(54:17):
But yeah, it's a really it like hits hard when
I hear you say that, I mean, try to an appointment.
Try to find a therapist right now. Try.

Speaker 6 (54:26):
I mean, maybe it's just a Las Vegas thing, but
there's they just don't exist, and if they do, they're
not taking new clients or they're.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Just asking you to pay out a pocket, right, So
they just feel everybody has less money to live and
I think there's less of them too. Nobody wants to
be in there. Nobody wants to be a therapist. Nobody
wants to deal with all of our craziness. Like can
you imagine being a therapist having it listening to like
my crazy butt all day? Like, of course, Jessica Kaplan,

(54:52):
I have the answer for you do have a fast answer, actually,
but not everybody has a fast answer, right, or maybe
we do. And maybe that's why we're talking about this.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
I mean there also is and this is no sponsor
or anything else, but there's a crisis text line. You
can text the word home body you're shaking your head, well.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Even chat GGT is like pausing people to have psycho psychosis.
I was just reading about this this morning, and so
again we're not prescribing. We're just like a regular folk
with no agenda. But I think the takeaway after this
level of crisis yet again is can we workshop some

(55:33):
answers because I think we can do something internal and
maybe get ahead and listen, we're switching gears a little bit,
a little bit long overdue. Because it is our first
official I guess it's a launch, right. This is like
the premiere, if you will, of True Crime and Chill,
right right, that is that is our Yeah, I hear

(55:53):
a smoke machine. I'm seeing a strobe light in my
in my in the distance, and red carpet, perhaps because
we've all been paying close attention, by the way, the
naming of this night in this activity of True Crime
and Chill, nice job for everyone who called in yead.
By the way, that was an impressive show up of voting,

(56:18):
Like you know, we were giggling and then it was like, wow,
this got super real and it was like a standoff
here at the studio. We were really invested and so
were you guys. And I feel like we came to
the perfect title. So we are officially going to true
crime and chill and high stakes, high stakes, higher stakes
than even the case that we're talking about, which is

(56:40):
also very high stakes. So the Son of Sam the
Conversations with a Killer on Netflix is what we've all
been tasked to watch with a show of hands body,
So anybody listening to feel free raise that hand. You know,
we're not doing it on the Bible or anything, but
it's just like an honorary. You know, True Crime and

(57:00):
Chill Volk Club. Have you watched all of this? Of
course I did. Okay, body's being a show off right
from Jump Street. My hand's so high you can I'm
practically touching the ceiling. So anybody else want to raise
their like a one point five? So he's phoning it
in honesty. But also I gave him a one and

(57:21):
a half. I gave him a tip off, and I
said I would like fill him in Adam and Sam anything, no, nothing,
got a big no. Okay, Well, you've had a busy week.
It's a holiday week and a busy week, so anybody
else listening right now, you have no excuses, Courtney.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
Armstrong, You're on holiday Okay, I was, but of course,
I mean, I'm I read the appendix of books.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
I course, the way you are you are that is true.
And you took this very seriously as well, I might add,
And by the way, and thank God because you come
from such great genetics. Honestly, your mom, Betty is the greatest. Uh.
And she's slightly psyched. She's a little bit of a psychic,
you know, she knows what's doing, she remembers, she tells us.

(58:06):
She's one of those people that like tells it as
it is, and this is a case that was close
to the heart and close to yours. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
So I just to before body gets into all of
the details of the actual crime. I did give my
mom a quick call because even though Stephanie mentioned having
her on, she confirmed what I.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Said was that she would never be awake at ten
pm for anything period. No, you said, whether you were
getting even if you were getting married or accepting an award.
This we're giving the life. Yeah, we're giving her.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
Yeah, and ps I kind of relayed that to her
and she said, well, I get it from my mother
and she my mom's one of seven kids. She's like, yeah,
when we all started having babies. My grandma said to them,
don't be calling.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Me in the middle of the night. I can't do
anything anyway. So basically you're on your own and your babies.

Speaker 5 (59:00):
So that's where I come from.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
By the way, the truer words could not be Those
are like really good, real words of wisdom any and
she's right, so like while she sleeps. It's so exciting
that we're talking about it right now because she's.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
But gave her a quick call because she was in
a story of queens at which was really you know,
all the center. Son of Sam was happening in and
around on this really pivotal summer in our history. So
here's my here's her brief take on the summer of
seventy seven. I'm just curious if you can give me

(59:38):
just a real quick snippet of what that summer of
seventy seven was like.

Speaker 11 (59:43):
Strange it started, I think I'm not sure if it
started with Sun of Sam or it started out with well,
a blackout that was had, and both were big news.
But Son of Sam stayed in the news because it
was so creepy and people kept getting killed and they
thought because maybe they had brown hair, or it was

(01:00:05):
just it was just weird, but it got an awful
lot of publicity, and people really were changing behaviors because
of this, like literally coloring their hair different colors. I
wasn't nervous about this. I was curious, but I didn't
think it concerned me. Then Elvis died and that was
a huge story. So those three stories were big that

(01:00:28):
whole summer. And it was, if I remember, a very
hot summer. So literally we were out on the stoop
every night, out on the sidewalk, not me, the whole
block of people talking about Elvis to the blackout or
Son of Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Wow, And this is the summer that we get Courtney
Armstrong being baked in her mama's bed. Is the summer
of Gray Armstrong. So it was hot in here, right,
So she.

Speaker 6 (01:00:54):
Really did a good job of like setting the table
of like what the summer was like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:01:00):
This is true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm going to get ready to
tell you guys all about the Son of Sam, and
then we're going to discuss the documentary. But for those
who didn't watch it, if you want to participate and
listen to me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Now, so we're going to get there are some spoiler alerts. Yeah,
that's true. I mean not really. It's like if you
can't believe this and true crime without knowing about the
sun coming. This is the son of Sam. These are
cliff notes more crimet notes.

Speaker 6 (01:01:24):
Yeah, that's true. So the son of Sam. David Berkowitz
he was a serial killer who terrorized New York City
from July nineteen seventy six to August of nineteen seventy seven.
He killed six people and wounded seven others. His method
typically involved shooting couples, typically couples in parked cars with

(01:01:45):
the forty four caliber Revolver, which is interesting and I
kind of want to get into that as well later,
particularly targeting young women with long, dark hair, as your mom,
you know, astutely pointed out Courtney. He wrote a ton
of letters to the police and journalists. He was like
taunting them and created widespread, widespread panic throughout all the

(01:02:07):
boroughs of New York City. Right, really scary, and people
were scared to like sit in cars, right, And he
would even attack women, you know. Some of the victims
that survived were just like walking home from school. So
not only did he attack like people like Lovers Lane
kind of stuff, but he also just attacked random women

(01:02:28):
just walking home or you know, walking around the block. Again,
it was very hot that that year. People were outside
because it was all stuffy and whatnot in their apartment,
So people were outside and they were scared. It was very,
very scary. His string of shootings, which he first attributed
to a demon possessing his neighbor's dog, instilled a terror

(01:02:51):
across multiple New York boroughs. It started in nineteen seventy six.
He began his attacks, with his first victims being Donna Lauria,
who was killed and Jody Valenti, who survived. Subsequent shootings
over the next several months left more people dead or
wounded in seventy seven, because you know, it rolled into

(01:03:13):
the next year. The attacks escalated with multiple shootings in
early July of seventy seven. Again, this is going to
be going into that summer now, right, And here's the thing.
The police we didn't have computers back then, right, there
was no like cross communication between the boroughs. So even
though it started in seventy six, when it started in

(01:03:34):
seventy seven, the police they didn't connect the dots, right,
because they didn't communicate with one another, they didn't even
know that it was the same guy. It wasn't until
much later that they kind of pieced it all together
there was the same guy, and that was around the
summer of seventy seven. His last attack occurred July of
nineteen seventy seven, where he killed Stacy Moskowitz and wounded

(01:03:57):
her date, Robert Valente. So his victims ranged in ages.
They typically were in their mid twenties, early twenties. They
were very young. However, just recently, a citizen like sleuth
kind of pieced together that he was involved in an

(01:04:17):
earlier attack, but she was much older and it was
a different weapon. We're going to talk about that next
because that's part of the documentary. So I'm going to
keep that secret for now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
So his motive, his motive.

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
Berkowitz was captured on August tenth after a parking ticket
placed his car that was linked to an area of
his final attack.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Right, this is really good police work, by the way.

Speaker 6 (01:04:41):
Right, So he did this attack, and what the cops
did was they looked and see who got tickets in
the area around that time, and guess what David Berkowitz
was one of them. So that's how they caught him.
And when he got arrested, he said, what took you
so long? And he immediately composed to the shootings. Right,
So he's also been involved in or implicated, I should say,

(01:05:02):
with a lot of different arsons. A lot of times
you'll hear me say there's this like triad of you know,
things that serial killers are often, you know, part of
an arson. Bedwetting as an adult, and animal abuse are
indicators that there might be some something going on. And
so he was setting fires at a very young age. Again,

(01:05:26):
he had this demonic possession hoax. Berkowitz initially claimed that
a demon possessing his neighbor's dog, Sam Carr, was his neighbor.
That's why it's called the Son of Sam. Sam Carr's dog,
had ordered him to kill. However, he later recanted, admitting
that claim was a hoax the true motivation behind the killings.

(01:05:47):
He eventually told a psychologist that was court appointed that
his motive in anger was directed at a world that
he felt rejected him. Some of the victims were women
he felt rejected him, and he was diagnosed with paronoid schizophrenia.
He targeted young bubbles, young couples, right. Berkowitz often targeted

(01:06:07):
people in park cars, a choice he believed to stem
from his resentment of having been conceived out of wedlock.
He was adopted, and you know, his name was actually Roberts.
I think it was Robert David something. And then when
he got adopted, his adoptive parents switched his middle name

(01:06:28):
with his first name. That's why it's David Brooklitz. AnyWho
I'm digressing, No, that's target interesting detail.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
It is interesting. I think it's one of those you
and I both bumped on the same detail about him.
Did I think that like sums a lot of him up. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:06:41):
He was kind of like weirdly attached to his mom. Yeah,
he had a real mommy thing. He kind of tortured her,
but like also really wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Her to be it couldn't be away from her, but
like tortured her because he was separate from her in
a weird way because he was adopted. There's some sort
of messiness there. There is. I'm not at all sure
how to unpack that, but it's interesting. It is interesting.

Speaker 6 (01:07:06):
So he targeted women, women with long hair. We talked
about this a little bit. Women were dyeing their hair blonde,
thinking that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
She had dark hair. Yea mom had dark, dark hair. Yeah,
many of his women minded this is dig mother. We
don't know if you know his adoptive mother. No, but
his biological mother he never knew, right, No, he met her.
He did, she had blonde hair. Oh, that's right, he
did in the Diet show. Hands are right, right, You're

(01:07:39):
absolutely right. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:07:42):
So a lot of people speculate that his a tax
were a form of like this, like displaced digression towards
his biological mother for giving him up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Yeah, keep it here.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
I'm going to investigate the real who watched the rightisodes
from start to finish? It is True Crime and Chill.
Keep it here on True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
And Man Full Night. So far it has been a
very warm night so far, saying to take a big exhale, right,
what do you have body? When I finish up really quickly.

Speaker 6 (01:08:24):
Only the only thing I want to kind of touch
on really quickly before we move on to True Crime
and Chill. By the way, excited is you know the
Son of Sam case really kind of left a really
lasting impression on America and the justice system.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Right because the Son of Sam law right.

Speaker 6 (01:08:40):
We've all talked about that, and what it was was
it meant that if you committed a crime right, you
wouldn't be able to profit from it. Because after David
Burkowitz was arrested, he started getting book deals and movie
deals and whatnot, and the you know, the citizens and
even David Burkwitz himself actually were like, this is probably
not you know, something that he was actually.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
A real advocate for. This is not happening.

Speaker 6 (01:09:06):
Interestingly enough, it's very interesting. So that's why it's called
the Son of Sam law. But however, in two so
that got passed, and then in two thousand, I think
one or the nineties it got repealed by the Supreme
Court saying it was a violation of freedom of speech.
But then New York modified their law, and I think Idaho,

(01:09:29):
because we talk about this with Brian Coberger, Idaho has
a similar one where it can profit from their crime,
but the family can sue for.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
That money, meaning usually there's bail being set. So for example,
you're using the Brian Coburger Idaho example. If in whatever universe,
God forbid, Brian Coburger, the now accused guilty killer behind
bars serving time for the murder for humans. If he
were to write a book, for example, Bull, Yes he could,

(01:10:02):
but the profits of that book could be given to
the family members because they could sue very quickly as
they should be able to write. So son of Sam.
And by the way, Courtney Armstrong, Betty was so good.
Your mom was a slim How great we did it
at a little she had Our call time was a
little earlier thanks to you did a little ahead of schedule.

(01:10:25):
You know what, We all value it. God bless and
we're so psyched that she was here. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:10:33):
So Berkowitz, he pled guilty to the murders and received
six consecutive life sentences, receiving the maximum penalty a lot
of the time. He's currently he's still alive. By the way,
he is currently serving his sentence in a New York
maximum security prison and has repeatedly been denied parole. So
we got to move on now to True Grim and

(01:10:53):
Chill and talk about the documentary that we were assigned
as homework. Let's let's go right to a talk back
about it right now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
Hey, y'all, step from Bama. I'm super excited about the
True Crime and Chill watch clubs. I can honestly say,
I don't know if I've been as excited to do
homework anyways, immediately I watched those documentary and I have
tons of questions, but I'm only going to ask one
right now.

Speaker 8 (01:11:21):
So question, with that toy gun exercise, do you think
it could have unintentionally shaped Berkowitz's violent tendencies?

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
And do therapists normally have standards preventing such techniques? It
just seems like a really crazy technique to use on everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
I thought the same thing. Yes, I thought the exact
same thing. That was going to be my jump off place.
You stole my thoughts? Was it really? Yeah? So when
you I thought that that was so interesting to me?
Was that an imprint? Was that an impression?

Speaker 5 (01:12:00):
A nud Well, we should explain what she's referencing, and
thank you and you also you call or talk back
with any and all of your questions because they're always welcome.
But what the caller was referring to is that son
of San David Berkowitz, his parents. It came to a

(01:12:20):
point when he was younger.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
And setting fires.

Speaker 5 (01:12:24):
Yeah, his body alluded to he was setting fires. They
realized he needed help. They did the responsible thing. They
took him to a child psychologist or a psychologist. And
part of what the exercise that she did was to
have young David Berkowitz set up. She set up all
of these little toy soldiers if you can picture, like

(01:12:46):
two inch tall green toy soldiers, plastic ones, and gave
him a toy gun so he could help illustrate who
were you mad at today? And he would say, you know,
Tony in class, I'm angry with him, and he would hoys,
shoot again and again.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
It was weird. I that was very strange, very strange,
like I'm not no shame. And by the way, we're
learning from this, so this is not to pile on
that is not the intention. It is different times. We
just heard from Courtney Armstrong's mom. So like in the
time you've been of live Courtney Armstrong, time has evolved.

(01:13:24):
But that seemed wildly not so great in my two cents.

Speaker 6 (01:13:30):
And as we know, David Berkowitz shot people. That was
his method of you know, operating, that was his modus operandi, right.
He would shoot people, which is by the way, very
interesting for a serial killer to do. They never shoot people,
that never have Only twenty four percent of serial killers
use a gun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
A quarter. It's close to a quarter, close to a quarter.
And by the way, I think that quarter in more
modern times and decreases. I check my math on that,
but I do think that's not currently common.

Speaker 6 (01:14:03):
No, so well, that study that I'm quoting, it was
done in twenty fourteen. It's a little old, but it's
the only one I had ta I was just.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Going to ask it, do you have a theory like
why he would shoot? Like is it a way to
keep separated or further from your victims?

Speaker 11 (01:14:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
I wish they would have gone.

Speaker 6 (01:14:17):
So this is I have some critiques of the documentary,
and this is one of them. I kind of wish
they would have gone because, quite frankly that I didn't
really learn anything in this documentary. There wasn't like any
groundbreaking information. It was interesting to hear from David Burkowitz
directly via the tapes and the journalists that sat with him,
was very interesting, but I didn't really learn anything new,

(01:14:38):
and I kind of wish they would have gone into
this idea of his modusaparonde, which was a gun, so
a gun used by a silver a gun used by
a serial killer. Ken suggest motives like financial gain and
things like that, but that's not what David Burkowitz was doing, right,
He didn't kill anybody for money, right, it was a

(01:14:59):
hitma gun.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Also, you know, so it's very interesting.

Speaker 6 (01:15:02):
It feels like it's more hands off, right, it feels
like it's less involved than like a typical strangulation that's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Intimate, like so with a knife that is incredibly into
your face to face combat.

Speaker 6 (01:15:18):
Absolutely so, like it's more like a like a strangulation
or a stabbing. It's associated with power and control, where
as like a gun usually involves like drug dealing, a
hitman of some kind, financial game, but it's very hands off.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
You don't have a bloody He talked about this.

Speaker 5 (01:15:39):
I don't know, I know, I know, Boddy, you said
that you wish they'd covered it more, and I will also, Yeah, right,
they did. They definitely did cover his mo O and
talking about how indeed his childhood those therapy sessions did
he said, oh, I realized I felt better when I
had this, and you know, there was some form of

(01:16:01):
control by the way, and all right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
There you should also just learn from that. Let's not
do that anymore. Like that was a thing, the therapy
thing that the little God they don't do that anymore.
I don't think really all therapists don't do that anymore.

Speaker 6 (01:16:15):
It's like it's called like play displacement or something. Maybe
we can we can get a therapist to call us
at us now it's like play therapy or something. They
don't I don't think they do it anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Mm. Yeah, I'd be cure. We should get an expert
because I'm yeah, I think I'll look into that because
I would like to know a little bit. Well, there's
a million therapists out there, so people do different types
of therapy, and we should all agree that that one
was not productive.

Speaker 5 (01:16:42):
Right, certainly not for him. It's hard to imagine who
it would be good for. But I actually did learn
a lot. I think for this doc, it depends upon
your knowledge base you're coming into it with. That's true,
and body, you had a strong knowledge base. I did
not at all.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Even you were in the utero.

Speaker 5 (01:17:01):
You were in you were a baby in a belly,
the same age as Courtney.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Yeah we're the same. But you studied the case and
I danced. True, So that's all it is.

Speaker 5 (01:17:11):
Yeah, So I I had no idea, And also I
thought the doc went quite a bit into the whole
his backstory and the I thought it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
Was a little too much. Honestly, it was very heavy.
It was very fast story. Really really, I just thought
that was Listen, I'm a little obsessed with the origin story, okay,
right or wrong. I also just want to know, like,
where the you know, we make chocolate chip cookies and
sometimes a batch turns out a little awkward and not

(01:17:47):
so delicious. What were the ingredients that happened at that
time that made something go awry, that potentially could have
caused this horrendous chain of events, you know, Betty described it.
Everybody was scared. My Oma, my grandmother also from Queens,
New York. We used to spend our time there. I

(01:18:09):
you know, listen, she's not here to ask her about
that experience. But this is a New York story, and
I can only imagine it was harrowing for so many
I want to know why. Let's go back in time. Yeah,
you can spend hours talking about a person's where they
came from.

Speaker 6 (01:18:28):
Though, I thought it jumped around too much, right, Like
I thought, I kind of wanted it to be told
more linear, like this happened, then this happened, then this happened.
Then that happened. I feel like we got some of
his childhood, then they would jump to current times, and
then we would get some more of his childhood, then
they would jump to like a victim. I just I
was like, what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Oh see? I like that.

Speaker 5 (01:18:50):
I liked it and I had I had no problems
with the graphics that they used.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
It really set the.

Speaker 5 (01:18:54):
Stage and I it made it easy to follow. And honestly,
if you would have stabbed all of his backstory, even
though stuff and he said you couldn't get enough, I could.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Would have been like an hour. I agree, I ate
it up. So do you really? Yeah? I ate it up.

Speaker 6 (01:19:10):
You're right, Courtney, it would have been a really long
irpreciating I yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
I don't know. I just listen. I didn't. I didn't
hate the documentary.

Speaker 6 (01:19:20):
I just I'm only going to give it two stars
out of five, two stars out of two, body stars.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Out of five. I just it was, uh a pretty
okay display. What are we going to watch next? We
all to do the stars and what do we all
have to do our?

Speaker 10 (01:19:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
How many stars out of five did you give? Son
of Sam? No, we don't do that. I'm going to
listen to Top. I'm going to listen to Top because I listen.
We're coming up.

Speaker 5 (01:19:51):
We have one minute and I have something so important everybody.
Next up, we are going to be watching Don't f
with Kats with our very very own body.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
Mony is not my idea stamping on the table. We're
so excited.

Speaker 5 (01:20:10):
This is Stephanie and I ended up meeting Body and
listens so good though.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
I think we talked about it quite a bit. Everybody,
if you haven't seen it, my recommendation is that we
should all watch it. Right so it's really a satisfying
watch too. It does check every box. It also is
a great explanation for why we're all obsessed with each other,
and also just sort of we talk about it a lot.

(01:20:39):
So my recommendation is that we all watch it. Whether
you have already watch it. Again, it's the end of
the night. Somehow, let's go straight toward talk bath.

Speaker 12 (01:20:50):
Hi, it's Tenna from Australia. You were talking about what
got you into true crime and I just thought i'd
like to mention that the part two massacre Pop Past
was got me into podcasts. I was always like, oh no,
that's for old people. I absolutely adored that podcast and
you guys just have the best voices for it. And

(01:21:10):
I just want to send out some love from Australia
for that one.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Let's sweet. We're working on the last edition also, Courtney,
I'm strong shout out to the voice of Yeah, there's
another one coming. That's so nice. That's so nice for listening.

Speaker 6 (01:21:28):
Yes, thank you for the talk pack. So yeah, next
to next Wednesday, we'll be doing True Crime Chill again.
It is going to be Donut with Cats. And by
the way, it was not my idea and I don't
get any money for it or anything like that, Like
Body Movement is not making money from the.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Brain goes nobody. I just wanted to know, like this
wasn't like my you know, I was getting paid cash
to talk to cats.

Speaker 6 (01:21:50):
You know, I mean watching it doesn't put pennies in
my pocket, is what I'm saying, you know, like I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
Get money from that. Everybody knows that that's not the case.
By the way, it's really good. It is good. It
really is. I can say this in such an unbiased way, Courtney,
I'm speaking for both of us right now. It's excellent.
It's an excellent documentary and we talk about it a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:22:10):
And you know, my inbox is full of people who
are like, what was this and what did you mean
by this? And what happened here and what happened there?
This is your chance asking me anything.

Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
Oh yeah, and actually, if you want to start those,
start the talkbacks now and be your calendar to call in.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
But I'm tiped in too, by the way, A long
roll anything about Pike, the piked In massacre podcast or
documentary or anything with donf with cats, slow roll Idaho
massacre airing. Now keep the questions coming. You are at
your fingertips or you're a literally one one message away

(01:22:46):
for maybe we could do maybe we could do the
Idaho student murderers. So yeah, of course, any listen. I
don't talk about it because again I don't want to
seem like I'm see now you know what I'm saying,
and I say I didn't do the do'nuff. Now you
know what I'm saying. I think about all day. You know,
I work on all day, and I just I'm like, no,
it's a little bit, don't talk about it anymore. So

(01:23:07):
you know it's coming.

Speaker 5 (01:23:08):
Well, I think what we should talk about is the
main thing I took away from that lovely talk back
from Australia is the p s a that podcasts are
not just for old people.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
So that is my granny should kill that Granny's come on,
I think we had a deep dive. I wanted to say,
free granny because she could not have possible do this.
She's innocent, she could not have been crazy. I'm kidding.
Stephanie smummed to no, but like, how could this be?

(01:23:41):
So she was trying to escape the country this one.

Speaker 5 (01:23:45):
I just want everyone to stop embroiling hordes of people
in their crimes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
Is going down in flames with you granny and.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
The loose girlfriend of her son and the girlfriend's ex boy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
We do how many degrees? Yes, because there's more brad
grannies where this came from. By the way, this is
not the first of these terrible grannies that are doing
bad things.

Speaker 5 (01:24:12):
On behalf of their want a deep dive, Dirty grannies,
dirty green Angela Wagner the Python message, Yeah, oh yeah,
talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
She's in jail right, mm hmmm, oh yeah, she'll be
out in thirty years though, so rest assured and really
you know justice well and again don'nut with cats. Watch it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:36):
You have until Wednesday. There's three episodes. I am amazing
in it, obviously, No, I'm kidding. Yes, but leave us
a talk back. I'll answer all your questions and then
we'll pick something else.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
For the next week. And guys, listen, tomorrow's Thursday. We
are on the eve or the pre eve is it?
What's what happens before holiday? You're on the precipice, yes,
a holidays. So we're coming up to Labor Day weekend.
Tomorrow is our Thursday prior to the weekend, So make
sure you come here. We're so excited to have you.

(01:25:08):
This is True Crime Tonight, talking true crime all the time.

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