Keeping Yourself Safe: From Gun Violence to Home Protection, Plus More True Crime Headlines

Discussing the ongoing American gun violence epidemic; a New Zealand dad who was living with his three daughters in the woods as a fugitive; a murdered judge who faced shocking allegations; and a decomposing body found in a pop star’s Tesla. Plus, Professor John Eck joins to share his expertise in crime prevention in our daily lives. Later, unpacking Unknown Number: The High School Catfish for this week’s True Crime and Chill.”

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, September tenth, and.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
It is a very sad day.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
As we come on the air, the murderer of Charlie Kirk,
the conservative activist, remains at large, and one of the
three teens in the school shooting today has just been
reported that he has died. So as we come on
the air, this show is changing real time. Our hearts
go out to the families of everyone affected today in

(00:51):
the many tragedies that we'll be covering. Joining us will
be Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Of course, host of the hit podcast body Bags.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
No better to have anyone in a moment of tough
times than Joseph. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course, with
Courtney Armstrong, and we are here to unpack all of it.
We'd love to hear from you eight eight eight three
one crime. If you want to leave us a talk back,
please do just download the iHeartRadio app, push the right

(01:21):
hand button and boom, you are on the show. All
thoughts and feelings are welcome. We know this is an
emotional time and again our hearts are really with the
families of anyone affected in today's shooting, and of course
with those who have now been lost, and just with everybody.
It is, Stephanie, it's a hard day. It's a hard

(01:42):
day to process all of this news that has been
coming at us. So Charlie Kirk, as you mentioned, he
was the founder of the conservative organization Turning Point USA.
And Charlie Kirk was fatally shot while speaking at an
outdoor event. This was at Utah Valley University in Orum, Utah.

(02:03):
Charlie Kirk was only thirty one years old, leaves behind
a wife and two very young children, and this gunshot
struck him in the neck. Immediately there was chaos because
again this was at an outdoor speaking event and attendees
we're running Charlie Kirk collapsed. Authorities responded very swiftly and

(02:26):
as of right now, the suspected shooter is not in custody.
Earlier a person was taken into custody, but FBI Director
cash Patel has announced that that person has been released.
So again, in this moment, the story is evolving. Details
can and likely will change, and we'll be updating you

(02:48):
as they come in. And again, this is a very
violent person someone it remains at large, So everybody in
that area please be diligent about all things. Joseph, we
know that nobody can speak to any of this stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Better. Sorry that it's under tough circumstances.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, very dark day. You know, we've got school shooting
and we've got death as Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I think we're going to check the audio. Joseph was
very kindly joining us at very short notice. So while
we're working on that, just a few more details in
what happened with Charlie Kirk today at around twelve ten
pm that's local time. He was delivering remarks at an
American comeback event and as I said, he was shot

(03:34):
in the neck.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Who you know many of us have I will say
sadly have seen because this I wish we hadn't.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Why is everybody able to see this man lose his life.
It's very triggering for so many. I've never actually seen
that so public before. It seems to be everywhere, and
for his family and for those that were in attendance,
in the students that had to witness that is incredibly traumatic.

(04:03):
And I can't believe we're all seeing it so freely
on social media and in the news.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
How is that possible? Is that okay?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I don't think it's okay? Is the very simple I mean,
it feels like it should be illegal that we have
all seen it. It's a thing that, like you said,
for his family, for attendees, for honestly humanity.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Why we should not.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
There's a reason we don't watch snuff movies is because
it's very dangerous for our brains. You know, this is
sensitive material and I wish I hadn't seen it, and
I wish his family didn't have to see it. But
here we are, you know, so again very triggering. So
anyone out there who is feeling, you know, real grief
and sadness, we get it. Yeah, And I believe Joseph

(04:47):
Scott Morgan, forensics expert, is here.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Sorry, So yeah, this is what I can kind of
basically interpret from what we're hearing right now, based upon
current news courts, is that the shot was stared at
a great distance, literally the shot was fired over the
heads of the audience. Where they're saying the shooter was

(05:12):
allegedly positioned is on the second floor of this kind
of flat building, and it's an elevated position. They're firing
downward into what appears to be guys an amphitheater, and
Kirk was positioned in the forward position, like where a
stage would be in an outdoor amphitheater. What makes the

(05:32):
shot kind of interesting is that he was beneath a tent.
Why that's kind of important here is that the shooter
would have had to have had remarkable accuracy because you
have to account for what's referred to at that distance,
something called bullet drop. This was not a handgun that
was fired. This is a long arm. This is a

(05:54):
rifle that was fired. And my suspicion is it's probably
got some kind of optics on it, whether it's a
standard hunting scope or some kind of base optics where
you can zero in if and look, I don't encourage
I'm glad you guys brought this up. This is key.
I don't encourage anybody out there to go and watch

(06:15):
this video.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Please don't.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I agree, I agree, I agree, but you can't avoid it,
like it's somehow everywhere, somehow, it pops up on everything's
feeds without them even wanting it.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
I know. I was teaching my class today at jack State, Guys,
and my class immediately wanted to engage me about the
bus attack in Charlotte. And I have seen that image
so many times. It just it's soul crushing, you know,
these are human beings that are dying. And again with this,
just so that people understand the anatomical orientation here was

(06:49):
just to the left Kirk's trachia. There was immediate blood
letting at this point in time. So and one of
the things that really caught my eye was the fact
that he raised his right hand with his thumb tucked.
And if you guys have ever seen anyone on a

(07:10):
football in a football game that sustains like a head
trauma or spinal trauma, there's a neuro muscular reflex that
goes into this where the thumbs are tucked, They go
into kind this tight position, a lot of rigidity. He
fell over immediately. I suspect, and I you know, again,
this is only my suspicion that this was a very

(07:35):
quick death, because anything above when you start to think
about your cervical vertebrae. Anything that is your C four
or above, there's little or no chance of survival because
that literally it impacts your diaphragm and your ability to
process oxygen, your you know, to you know, facilitate your breathing.

(07:59):
So if there is no silver lining here, guys, I'm
just saying that from the perspective, I don't think that
this was a lingering event. And this person I believe
that perpetrated this knew what they were doing. They're familiar
with the schedule, They're familiar with location of the victim.

(08:20):
They're also familiar and this is really chilling with vantage points.
And how did they access the roof I don't know
about you guys. You know, I teach at a university. Guys,
as you well know, I don't know how to get
onto the roofs of any of the buildings. I really don't.
So who did this would know how to access those locations?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Wow, and again someone sharing their beliefs. You know, there
was not a bunch of security.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
We know this.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
It didn't seem as though that was his style. So
you know, that puts somebody in a very vulnerable position
and again for the students that had to witness this,
and it's just too much.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
It is just too much.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
It's okay to disagree, it's okay, this is okay. How
we disagree is so important, and we all can agree.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
This is not the way. No violence, and yeah, it
just never ever is.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
No it's chilling.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
So unfortunately, I think we should probably turn our attention
to the other shooting that has occurred on this day, Wednesday,
September tenth, twenty twenty five, and that shooting occurred just
afternoon at Evergreen High School in a suburb of Denver
today or suburban Denver rather. Three students were shot, including

(09:40):
the shooter who turned the rifle on themselves. Two of
those students are critically injured. One student has died, but
it is unclear which of the three that was. Authorities
responded very swiftly. Students and teachers were evacuated, the school
was cleared and went to a nearb by elementary school

(10:02):
that was put on lockdown, and victims are being treated
at a local hospital. So Governor Jared Paulus has condemned
the violence while emphasizing the need for safe learning environments.
No motive has been released. At this time, so that
as well occurred today. It's a very different energy than

(10:23):
we were sort of going into this night with. You know,
this was the night that we were going to talk
about true crime and chill exclusively, right and looking so
forward to some of the segments that we have coming
up that we will still get to of course, you know,
but what a sad thing that you know, here we
are people who really love each other, you know, Courtney
and Joseph. We have to be here under really dark times,

(10:46):
you know, So we're not here to push any thoughts
or big agendas. This is not really the place for it.
But if you want to share your feelings or if
you have you know, any connection to Charlie Kirk or
a story to share, no, feel free to do so,
and we'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
Eight eight eight three one crime.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
This is true crime tonight, and you could always give
us talk back as well. Yeah, and Joseph with this,
I know there is very very minimal information at the
school shooting that just happened today. You have been involved
with the sort of forensic investigation of at least one
school shooting.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Is that correct?

Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yeah, as a matter of fact, it wasn't a school shooting,
but I was part of the investigation what's referred to
in Atlanta as the Buckhead massacre, where we had fifteen
people in a day trading center that were shot and killed.
And I had friends that were actually at Columbine. I
had corner investigative friends that were there physically. Yeah. So,

(11:46):
and I've worked with other mass shootings just to kind
of frame it out from a forensic standpoint. You have
to be so on your game when you walk into
conduct an investigation like this, because first off, you're walking
into total and complete chaos or the remnant of chaos.
Things are confusing, evidence is strewn about, and it's my

(12:09):
thought anytime you walk onto one of these scenes with
a mass shooting, there's so much that has to happen
before you ever cross that threshold into that scene. And
I'm talking about really being organized and being broken into
teams where you're as horrible as it sounds that I'll
go ahead and tell our listeners because they're bright and
they understand this sort of thing. You have to have

(12:32):
a specific assignment, and generally that assignment surrounds one victim.
That's the way that we process the bucket shooting back
in ninety nine. That's the way they process Columbin. So yeah,
it's a bit overwhelming, and God bless these people. I
hope that, you know, I hope that the that there's

(12:52):
some kind of respite from as far nationwide that we're
seeing right now. And I pray for peace for all
of these families involved in all of the students same here.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
And it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
We were talking about this before we went on air,
and I'm crazy for you both so so much, and
you even said this last night, like we get to
disagree all the time. It's like the best part of
our relationship is the safety to be able to share
different beliefs and to be talk openly, and we get
to do that because there's true love there. It's like,
this is crazy. And for the kids that were in

(13:25):
this school again, they go home their parents, like the
ripple effect is a real ripple effect. And I know
our audience is so smart, so I feel like we
can somehow push through this and be better for it.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
But I don't know the answer.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
It's hard. I mean, let that be true. It is
hard to see on daylight today when there is just
so much tragedy that's just you know, inescapable and feels
everywhere and on the kids are just getting back to school,
and the hope ish just it's a little too much
to bear, but this is what this day has brought us. Listen,

(14:04):
we will continue on True Crime tonight. Joseph Scott Morgan.
We thank you greatly for I love you, Joseph forensic
expertise on this confusing night, and stay with us.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
There's a lot more show to come.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
We are jumping into what has become a very dark night,
and you know, just to lead with the many things
that are unfolding real time. Charlie Kirk has been shot
and killed this evening while you know, sharing his ideas
with students, and there has also been a school shooting
in Colorado, and we're just trying to figure out how

(14:49):
do we can we kind of add something to the
conversation that makes us maybe feel a little safer in
the world. So we're going to be having Professor John
at on the phone. He's going to be joining us
to be kind of talking through some safety things that
we can keep in mind just to keep ourselves safe,
not in these types of extreme situations, of course, but

(15:12):
more in our every day and that might offer us
a little sense of control at a very you know,
feeling like an uncontrollable day. I'm very very glad that
Professor Johnik will be joining us for exactly what you said.
Little things that we can control are important. Factly, guess
what what you can control is all you can control

(15:33):
exactly and that's that's it. So let's do it the
best we can, and with you know, people who are knowledgeable.
So I had that is it seems like a great
night to speak with him. And also we are absolutely
going to be getting still to our true crime and
chill discussion about an known number, the Netflix documentary.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
That we've encouraged you to watch, so.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
You know, you could leave it all all of your
emotion can be tossed towards that for the evening. And
also Lori Dabell is back in the news, so we'll
be getting to that later as well. So obviously some
very heavy important things are unfolding real time. We don't
want to be glib about that in any way. We
will be updating you as it comes up. In Switching gears,

(16:19):
not out of lack of sensitivity, just trying to figure
out what that balance is. So if you want to
share your feelings or opinions on any of these very
important topics, please do don't hesitate eight eight eight three
one crime. All of your ideas and thoughts are welcome,
and leave us a voicemail a talk back. You could

(16:40):
also hit us up in our socials at True Crime Tonight,
at TikTok and Instagram, or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook.
That's right, and now we'll get into We're going to
get into another case that we've been following. And excuse me,
I'm having a little trouble finding my words. As Stephanie said,
we're so we're all a little confused about how to

(17:03):
switch gears.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
We can call it what it is, it's the truth. Yeah,
maybe we shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
So we're kind of like in this little hybrid land
of we don't want to be so sad, and you're
not coming here to hear us grandstand about loving each
other more and finding peace. Let's unpack what we can.
But if we want to continue, we certainly can. So well,

(17:28):
I say, we have reported the facts that are known
in this moment, and that's all that we can do
in this moment. So let us move on to this
case out of Kentucky, and all right, I'm going to
take you back a year ago. On September nineteenth, twenty
twenty four, a guy, former Lecher County Sheriff, Sean Steins,

(17:51):
he goes.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
By Mickey, Mickey Mickey.

Speaker 5 (17:54):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
So Mickey allegedly shot and killed district Judge Than Mullins.
And this happened in the judges chambers. Unsurprisingly, since it
was judges chambers, this act was captured on courthouse surveillance, right,
Like it's always there's always surveillance in courthouses. Like that's

(18:16):
a pretty like it's a bold move, Like you would
pretty anticipate cameras, That's correct, I mean most particularly if
you are the sheriff at So this happened and immediately
Mickey was arrested on the scene by his own deputies.
That must have been quite a moment for everyone involved.

(18:38):
Like talk about surreal. So in the wake of that killing,
things got that's complicated, Things got more complicated. So since
that happened, multiple women have come forward with allegations that
Sheriff Mickey I'll call him, that he was actually involved

(18:58):
in a long running and co wors of sex ring
that was operating out of the courthouse.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
What, yeah, that's right, that's.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
So meaning And we've heard this before, so meaning everyone's
kind of in on it.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Here.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
You are, you're looking to find a proper sentence. Maybe
you've committed a crime. You're ready to do the time.
You're hoping the judge is fair and unbiased, as they
must be. The sheriff, also doing his job, apparently maybe
has a little bit invested in this, maybe more than
one would think. And somehow the judge is giving sentences

(19:37):
and getting some other stuff out of it. Well the judge, No,
there's there's no indication about the judge. This is all
Sheriff stein I see. Yes, So it was Sheriff Steined
that was running this alleged course of sex ring. So
the defense is now arguing that he was an active

(19:59):
psycho hostis at the time of the shooting, and that
the grand jury never received the full scope of evidence
regarding his mental state. So it's an odd case. And
then on the bodycam footage from the arrest, you can
see the sheriff he appears to be in a highly

(20:21):
paranoid state and was saying, you're going to kill me.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
So he is saying that.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
When ultimately he killed the judge in chambers, and the
defense argues that not just was it psychosis in the
moment of the shooting, but that also there was strange
behavior in the days lading up to the murder. So
it'll be interesting to see how that plays out, that

(20:49):
plays out in court. So ultimately he pled guilty. The
sheriff pled guilty a few months after the shooting occurred.
This was in November of twenty twenty, and the charge
was murder of a public official, which I don't know
the answer, but I wonder if that's sort of murder
with a special circumstance. Hmmm, since it's and uh so

(21:15):
we will see. But the defense is filing motions to
dismiss the indictment, to unseal evaluations, fight for a venue change,
and yeah, there is more to come.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
What a weird story. Yeah, what do you make of it?
What do you make of that? What do you make
of that?

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I mean, I don't know if this, you know, if
this sheriff is potentially you know, quote, pretending psychosis to
get out of what he did and or the alleged
sex ring he was he was running, but listen.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
We will.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
We will keep on top of this as more details
come through, and in the meantime, this of course is
true crime. Tonight, we're on iHeartRadio. I am Courtney Armstrong
and I am so lucky to be here as always
with Stephanie Leidecker. We are missing body moving and I
hope she's not missing us and is.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Having a great time.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
And yeah, we are talking all things what has happened
today as well as ongoing stories. So we'd love to
hear from you with anything that's top of your mind
in this moment eight of eight three one crime, and
we have a talkback to go to.

Speaker 6 (22:33):
Hi ladies, Ali from Orlando. I'm calling about the episode
where you had Whitney on Heero number one, and I
just wanted to make a quick comment about Grace. It's
something that every single person on this planet has in common,
yet we.

Speaker 7 (22:52):
Don't talk about it enough.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
So true just my thoughts, thank you.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, it's so you hit such an a gaiala chucked oddly,
it's so true. Honestly, I think that's the spirit of
even maybe why we are in true crime. In some ways,
I think it's so important. It's like the one emotion
along with love obviously that we can all get on
board with. And like we all can't escape like you

(23:19):
could try, you could try to be under a rock
and you'll never be in love and you'll never be
annihilated by heartache or death or any of the things.
So yeah, hearing her story, I thought was really inspiring.
So we'd love to hear any of yours too. Come on,
dump it on us. This is, by the way, not
a bad night to do it. Get it all out.

(23:41):
It's okay. We're all feeling sad, you know, we're all
feeling confused, absolutely, but it also it is a great night, Stephanie.
Not just to share, you know, if you are having
feelings or emotions or grief you want to talk through.
But also if you have a hero number one in
your life exact you want to share. We could use
some good news of heroic people exactly. You know what

(24:04):
was it, mister Rogers his quote about look for the helpers,
look for the helpers exactly and like light will always work,
it'll always make it better in the dark. But again,
we would love to hear some happy hero.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Stories as well.

Speaker 8 (24:20):
Absolutely, and we have another talk back, all right, this
is not a happy hero story. But this is in
reference to Trump's birthday message to Epstein.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
So here you go.

Speaker 9 (24:32):
Close enough, High ladies, Amy from Ohio, I absolutely love
the show. Just a quick note that Trump has said
in the past that he hasn't used the word enigma,
but he did use it in two of his books,
multiple times. In one of his books in nineteen ninety
to describe Don King and Mike Tyson, and then twice

(24:54):
in a speech in two thousand and fifteen to describe
Ben Carson. So allegedly allegedly allegedly hear it.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I mean, listen, this is why I know, I know
our audience. We can cure the world's problems together. I
believe it. So can we, like look up the definition
of the word enigma, because it is such a strange
It's like an odd word, Like I don't know if
I would ever want to be referred to as an enigma.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Or I would I ever refer to somebody as an enigma?

Speaker 7 (25:25):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (25:25):
You would.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I'm like a mysterious okay, mysterious puzzling, difficult to understand.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
That's from the.

Speaker 10 (25:36):
Puzzling or hard to understand. It can be described as
a riddle, a confusing situation, or a person whose actions
or motives are difficult to figure out?

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Is it like the Joker, for example, from any of Like, right,
I mean any guy And when I was in my
you know, from high school to my early twenties that
I was attracted to, I love the enigmatic ones like
he's so if I figure him out.

Speaker 5 (26:01):
I think you mean the Riddler from Batman. Oh yeah, actually, Edward.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yes, that's what I live.

Speaker 7 (26:11):
At.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
The smartest crew in the business. Thank you for the correction.
So right, it's like a that's where I remember it
from kind of, I mean I half remembered it from it.
But so it's a confusing it's not exactly a compliment.
It's just your mysterious you're kind of brooding boy who
didn't love that guy?

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Right? Yeah, I mean puzzle.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, I have an idea. Here's a bottomless pit I
could took all of my energy.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
In exactly exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true. Okay,
so that is.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
But again, that's a strange chase use of words, and
it's so astute because it had been used so many
times before.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
So several times. It looks like you did it.

Speaker 10 (27:00):
Surviving at the top of nineteen ninety Richive, Oh, no,
Dan Rather an enigma than in his twenty fifteen primary campaign,
he referred to Ben Carson as an enigma to me twice,
so he said it several times, Dan.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
Rather, I find puzzling.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
He seems so sort of like salt of the earth,
Dan Rather and not it is mysterious, possible, like I've
never used that word in my life, like I have
never I don't even know how to say it correctly,
so I have never used that word.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
So it's not like a common word.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
No, no, although people will will often say, like the
Mona Lisa, she's got an enigmatic smile, like you don't
know what's doing behind that little smile.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
There's that's fair. That is fair.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
She's giving like a little like happy, sad, little like
clever and curious and brooding all at the same time.
It's an enigma like Carson or Dan Rather say, okay.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
We all needed that collective.

Speaker 10 (28:09):
Yeah, that was to rate deep energy, so fabulous.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Do we have one more talkback?

Speaker 5 (28:17):
We can get in great, we can get one more
in there?

Speaker 9 (28:20):
Hi everyone, Sorry Amy from Ohio Again, I have lots
of opinions. Twice one day, Heley Maxwellish charged twice with
perjury in twenty sixteen. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson
has said she's a known liar. Sometimes it's Aukham's razor.
And if you watch a clip from Jasmine Crockett last
night on CNN where she goes through everything that would
have had to happen for that letter to be a plant,

(28:42):
it would be quite an elaborate and likely unsuccessful plan.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Thanks, and it's so true by Johnson did say that
it is one hundred percent accurate. Wow, Aukham's razor and enigmas,
you gotcabular, you got like.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
This cab and psychological understanding. I love it. That is
so true. What's your favorite word that I can ever say? Court?
What's the one you?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Megalomaniacalia. Yes, it's a good.

Speaker 10 (29:15):
One to tell that a talkback person to please be
careful driving while leading talkbacks, because it sounds like they
were doing two things at once. So careful Amy, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
I'm going to give Amy the benefit of the doubt
that she was a passenger. Yeah, so switching gears a
little bit. We're just trying to figure out how can
we add some control to our own lives, certainly during
what seems like tumultuous times, right, people keep saying this, Oh,
this is the breaking point. There's a breaking point, and

(29:45):
I disagree. I think it's a healing point. And we
have to be healing each other and with each other.
And you know, it takes a community in a village,
and we have hours. So let's all huddle up and
welcome Professor John ck So. Professor John, he would prefer
us to call him John, So John first and foremost,

(30:05):
Welcome to the show. He's been advising law enforcement throughout
the world on essentially how to keep ourselves safe. Right,
so we figured, listen, we can't keep ourselves in the
world at all costs, obviously, and today's developments are you know,
those are wild cards and we're just going to put

(30:26):
those aside for a second. But in our everyday regular life,
just says regular civilians and Americans trying to get through it.
Welcome to the show. And I know you have some
really extraordinary tips that will will help us all feel
a little empowered.

Speaker 7 (30:43):
Well, bedeed, thank you for asking me to join you.
I hope I have some useful news.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yes, so I would love to know what in the
most simple terms, How would you describe to people's situational
prime time prevention?

Speaker 3 (31:01):
What does it mean and why is it so effective?

Speaker 4 (31:05):
Right?

Speaker 7 (31:05):
Well, the basic way of thinking about it is, instead
of trying to change why people commit crimes, let's say
improving parenting or rehabilitating offenders, which are fine. Uh, they
take a long time and their effectiveness is somewhat weak. Uh,

(31:27):
Situational crime prevention focuses on immediate circumstances, and particularly the
circumstances are we call situations that influence whether a potential
offender believes the crime will work. Uh. There's considerable research
showing that offenders that they go into a particular place

(31:51):
and they don't perceive it as being useful for their
crime just don't commit crimes. So they go into another
place and it looks really tempting. Uh, then they're likely
to do things that you don't like.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
So what makes it look what would make something look tempting?

Speaker 7 (32:15):
Yeah, So it really depends on the kind of crime
you're talking about. So probably one of the most common
crimes out there is theft from automobile and if typical
offender would be wandering through an area, they expect people
to be somewhat careless. They are glancing at the cars

(32:38):
and they see something in the back seat, they're not
certain what they try the door. If the door is locked,
they might just move on. It depends on how many
other people around other things. But if there's if they
have the ability to break the window, they might do

(32:59):
that too. So just the thing in the back seat
being visible might be enough. But certainly locked, keeping the
door locked, keeping the car empty, That very simple thing
changes that cars situation from being tempting to being not

(33:20):
interesting in the least.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
I put a little blanket. I have a little blanket
in my car. You could have put like you cover.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Up your stuff.

Speaker 7 (33:30):
That that that works, And I use that kind of
thing often if I can't keep things out of it.
But my preference is that there's really nothing visible except
maybe a piece of paper or a blanket, uh, in
the in the car itself, UH, phone cords, all of

(33:50):
that kind of stuff I try and keep away, UH
keep out of it. And uh that that seems to
to help. It's not perfect, but it does seem to help.
It can't help.

Speaker 10 (34:06):
Can I jump in and ask, like what about I've
heard mixed things about what about parking in a well
lit area, like does that?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
I mean, I've heard you should always park in a
well lit area.

Speaker 5 (34:18):
I would assume, but I think John you said something
real different.

Speaker 7 (34:22):
Yeah, it's sort of there. There's no one answer there.
So from the offender's point of view, you'd think that
the well lit area would deter them because they're more visible.
On the other hand, they need light too, write they
need to be able to so that it helps them.

(34:47):
So there's that trade off there and depends on and
really are there other likely to be other people looking?
And if not, then light's probably not going to help
that much.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
What about a personal safety.

Speaker 7 (35:03):
Well that's the other thing is if you're going back
to your car and it's dark, would you rather be
the car in the dark or in the light? My
preferences rather risk the offender looking into the car than
to be wandering back to my car in the dark,
So I stay.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
In the light. Let's just call it.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah, we're going to call for good parenting and the light.
So and then the next one, if you're can I
can I run one by you see if I'm right?
A water bottle like hiring, you know those really heavy
water bottles that have like a good grip. If you
have one of those and you have to use it
as a weapon and pilates chop someone like that is

(35:43):
dangerous stuff.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Right, Like you should always have a water bottle on
your hand.

Speaker 7 (35:48):
Well, uh, better be a good wonder. You should know
what you're doing with it. I think stepping back from that,
the problemly the biggest thing is just being aware of
what's going on, uh, and having a sense of what's
around you, projecting essentially in an aura of I know

(36:11):
what I'm doing. Then if you need to use that
water bottle, you're prepared, right, But if you're listening to
your phone, you're you know, you've got ear plugs in,
you're distracted by other stuff. That water bottle is not
going to be so much help. I'll come too late.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
So looking down while you're walking and the you know,
walking to your car with your head down on your phone,
I mean, who doesn't do that? Earbuds in. No, you've
got to have your keys out. You're ready to rumble.
This is like efficient walking, not too many bags. You
have your keys out, you have your water bottle in
your your eyes are straight ahead, earphones are off. You

(36:51):
are on a mission. For success and aware of all
of your surroundings.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yeah, I have a question.

Speaker 7 (36:58):
Charge you're in charge of the you know verse. I
mean you exact you again, it's not it's not a
perfect solution, but the offend. Most offenders are not that aggressive,
they're not that demanding. This is not like a joker
in Batman. Uh. You know, they're not going to want

(37:19):
to go after somebody who is looks like they're together
and could become become a problem, so they they'll back off.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
So that is that is great to know. I want
to say for anyone listening who has any specific whether
it's sort of personal safety, auto safety, or home safety,
give us a call because we have John Eck here
for crime Prevention to answer your questions. Read eight at
eight to three to one crime and it looks like
Stephanie's raising her hand.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
I have a question.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
So I have always been told and I feel like
I've only learned this by working in true crime that
no matter what, if you can and somebody comes up
and tries to get you in a moving vehicle, that
you fight to the death and get as loud as
you can because.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
They do not want to get in the vehicle. Like
if it were.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
You know, sometimes you're like, oh, and then you get
in the car, and I think your chances of survival
go down fifty percent if in fact you get in
the car.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
So you want to.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Fight and you want to get loud and bite and
just be a maniac.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 7 (38:26):
I would tend to agree agree with that. Ten to
agree with that. I'm a short old person. So don't worry.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
I'll we'll get you. We got you. We'll come right
in with a water bottle, and we got this covered,
by the way. Also another tip, those.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Big flashlights that you get when you're you know, those
police officer grade type flash lights, by the way, everybody
should have those, you know, in the home because of
an emergency you got for a bit of blackout, and
they're very sturdy and they hold a battery life for
a long time.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Also very heavy. Good to have that in your car.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Or you can walk around everywhere with a flashlight.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
Flashlight no matter where I'm going. If i might be
a party, but I've got my flashlight to be ready.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
It sounds a little much. I guess that's a bit much.
I have another question about homes.

Speaker 7 (39:17):
There might be a laptop out there that you can
use as a weapon.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Oh yeah, the laptop Charlie's Angel style.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, I can.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
See that, Courtney.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
What we're going to say so with Holmes, Because there's
so much rampant crime of people, even porch pirrating, you know,
when people come and take the ever never ending Amazon
boxes that are so pervasive everywhere. How much of a deterrent,
if at all, are dogs, especially if there's multiple And

(39:52):
does does size matter when it comes to dogs?

Speaker 3 (39:55):
I know the answer here.

Speaker 7 (39:58):
Yeah, I doubt dogs are much ha for porch pirting.
Listed dogs are outside because they won't care packages on
the outside the dogs on the inside.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (40:09):
The the extent that the porch pirate thinks there's someone
in the home owned the inside and the dogs a
learning them, that might be a little benefit. But if
they don't think anyone is there except the dog, is
probably no help. But uh, certainly uh. In terms of

(40:30):
break ins, having a dog with a loud voice, uh
uh is good. I used to have a Corgian. It
was like a very short dog. But if you didn't
see the dog, you thought you were dealing with a wolf.
It was a very big voice.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Courtney.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Remember we talked, we we heard tapes of several sexual
predators that were doing home invasions, and one of the
things that they all had in common. This is a
very unfun fact, but I thought it was interesting and
seems to apply, is these predators who were basically scouting
in neighborhoods looking for the next victim that they were

(41:09):
just going to sexually assault.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
And crime through their window.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
They would have certain criteria and things that would keep
them away. In small dogs specifically or like a total
non starter because they're just so crazy loud and you know,
get at your legs and your ankors and like, oh
my gosh, good luck trying to catch it, and wild card,
and then in general just dogs, like they would either

(41:35):
try to feed a dog like a bone or something
and or would just probably say, eh, I'll go to
the next house.

Speaker 5 (41:42):
I was interested.

Speaker 7 (41:46):
Yeah, Well it's basically it's again that most offenders, even
these predators you were just talking about, are not that determined. Uh,
so small things can keep them away, you know, just
a dog barking or other things that suggest that there's

(42:08):
going to be too much disruption here, I can't carry
out my routine.

Speaker 10 (42:14):
You could also have a sign beware of you know,
the dog Joe, leave a bowl out in front or
something that can.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Makes it another good point for home invasions to bowl
outside and big heavy boots, lots of boots.

Speaker 10 (42:29):
Oh that's true, Like there are multiple pieces.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yes, this is this is I got this down, but
it's a.

Speaker 7 (42:40):
Very it's a very important point you're making here, though,
is that the situational prevention has to be visible or
detectable by the offender. It's it's secret, right, they don't know.
So a camera that's hidden is not going to be
much of a current because they don't know it. Uh,
A silent dog may not be much of a deturent,

(43:03):
but something that warns them in advance. I don't want
to go there, that's what you want. And so you know,
leaving dog toys in the yard or something like that,
that might help.

Speaker 10 (43:18):
What about a ring cam, like does that make you?
Would that frighten people to think like, oh, maybe I
should avoid this house because they have the cameras there.

Speaker 7 (43:28):
It depends on how visible it is. I mean, you know,
we've all seen these videos of it, and the last
one I saw someone's coming up to the house apparently
checking it out and look like a woman, but she
has a baseball cap on and it's hard to tell
you know who she is. So they're probably fairly easy

(43:54):
to defeat for those kinds of circumstances. Uh, just depends
on what angle you have at it. So most of them.
If I have a camera looking down on someone a
build hat, it's gonna defeat.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
That's so true.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Want to how about bars on all the windows? Wait,
I know we're cutting to a break right now, so
I'm sorry to wrap it up. Uh, this is true
crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Thank you for joining us on such a confusing night
having the safety tips.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
It's super helpful, right court, it is wonderful.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
And yeah, especially like don't keep it a secret, like
you said, you want the criminals to see these, you know,
preventative measures. So thank you again, doctor John Eck, Professor
of Criminal Justice at the University of Cincinnati. We really
appreciate the time you took to share with all of
us crime prevention tips. Keep it here after the break.

(44:54):
True crime tonight, we're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
We're wacky tonight.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
We don't know if we are coming or going, if
we are crying or laughing the world.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Is really it's the red moon. Honestly, that's right.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, everybody's nodding, Oh my goodness, it's the red moon.
You know, obviously the tragedy happening over you know, Charlie
Kirk's death, being shot while speaking his beliefs to students
and sharing his thoughts. Whether you agree with him or

(45:39):
not is so irrelevant because again, not okay. We can
all agree, that is not okay at all. Young father
thirty one years old, beautiful wife to very small children,
age one and age three. Man, our hearts are with them.
And if again, if you have something or you know

(46:02):
him or his family and want to share a tale
or a story, we're of course here to hear it.
And this awful school shooting in Colorado, three were said
to be critically injured, one of them being the actual
shooter a student as well, And just before we came
on air tonight, one has died. It's unclear which, and

(46:25):
there have been no new development since we've started the show.
If you've missed any of the last hour, you know,
please check.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
It out as a podcast.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Despite it all being insane, but we're all sort of like,
what is the we want to sort of try to
be productive, and again, any suggestions we're here for them
feels like a.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Wicked switching of gears.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
But here we are the long awaited true crime and
chill is something that we were talking about. So maybe
just to kind of cleanse our our hearts a little
bit and we can all, you know, get our our
thoughts and feelings out on this documentary.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
For hot seconds collectively, let it rip on all the rage.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes, yes, yes, and I do feel enraged. I might
add so unknown Unknown number documentary on Netflix, Real Quick
Watch ninety minutes.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
We were assigned this by TAHA.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
One week ago and we've been getting a lot of
listenings everywhere. So spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
Well, yeah, get into that. We're going to dig into
that in a little bit. But there was a story
that I just came across and I've been dying to
talk about coming.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Like dusting off bodies chair Yeah sure, just bodies like
tied up in the closet healthcare.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Yeah, bring that story.

Speaker 10 (47:59):
Well, the reason it caught my eye is because you
may or may not know this about me, but I'm
a big music lover. So I listened to a lot
of music, and this one ties in with some true
crime but in the music world, so basically in a nutshell,
some human remains or human remains were found in the
front trunk of a tesla registered to a musician named

(48:21):
David at the Los Angeles Impound. Now David he spells
his name D for VD, so he's a pop singer.
He's professionally known as David, but his real name is
David Anthony Burke. He's a twenty year old rising star
in the music industry. But it seems as though the
police began investigating because the artist he's currently touring and

(48:46):
the vehicle was reported abandoned in the Hollywood Hills and
it was towed to a lot. People at the lot
started to smell something. They're like, what is that stink
like it was coming it's.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Hot weather here.

Speaker 10 (49:01):
Well, they open the trunk only to find a body
inside of a bag, and so now they're investigating into this.
Some more details are it's a feet that it was
female remains. It looks like she she seems like she's
a They can't really tell the person's ethnicity due to

(49:23):
the decomposition, they can confirm that it was a female
she had wavy hair, and oddly she weigh she only
weighs seventy pounds.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Seventy pounds, so very small, very.

Speaker 5 (49:37):
Would there be a small Well, don't make.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Those Tesla You know, I haven't been in a lot
of Tesla's, but I do know I always noticed that
those little front like they have their little front. It's
I'm looking at this a front, A front, a front
from Not only do the doors come up, you know,
like you know, back in the day, back to the future,

(50:00):
but also you know the fronk. The trunk is in
the front of the car, and it's kind of a small,
deep trunk, right.

Speaker 10 (50:06):
It's from what I have not actually seen one, but
from what it sounds like, well, clearly it has to
be small for this. I mean it sounds like it's
a small size. But that yeah, I'm not sure about that.
But what they what I did think was unusual. Two
things with this one the tattoo. There's a tattoo on
her right index finger and it reads a whoa. That's

(50:27):
I think it's odd. And here's another one I think
is unusual. One of his biggest songs is called Romantic Homicide,
So oh my goodness, Yeah, that's an unusual question.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Like this body was found yesterday and he continued to
go on stage last night and perform, and you know,
wasn't stopped, and there has been no direct indication that
he will be arrested.

Speaker 10 (50:52):
Correct, you are correct, So so we're going to keep
following this to see what happens with David. But and
side note, the album is pretty good, So I don't
know whether I should say that or not because of
the situation.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
But well, it might not have been him. It might
he might have like lost his car.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Maybe his car was stolen and this person who stole
the car did very bad things, dumped it and.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Thought they were off to the races. Frankly, it seems
like they are off to the races.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
And yeah, honestly, it had been you know, it was
five days that it was already abandoned.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Who knows that was when it was reported, so it
could have.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Been who knows before and then it was moved from
certain lots.

Speaker 10 (51:30):
So so again, as we know, there's auto theft, which
we were just talking about earlier with John, so any
kind of unusual thing could have happened. So when stolen
the body, So we'll wait, we'll keep digging into that one,
and I'll keep you posted if I hear more about it.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
One thing I know for sure, and again Joseph Scott
Morgan getting a lot of play tonight that I've learned
from him. And of course we heard this in the
infamous top Mom case Casey Anthony, Oh yeah, when her daughter,
her little beautiful body was decomposing a legit in a
car because the car smelt like human remains.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
That just became a very big hot topic of that case,
highly debated.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
So I have learned from Joseph Scott Morgan that body
decomposition is extremely real and it has a very horrible odor.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
It's an undeniable stench.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
It's not as though bodies can just lay about and
it doesn't create an epic amount of odor. So this
has been several days.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Hot sun.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
It's you know, what is it one hundred degrees over
by you guys in Los Angeles.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
Oh yeah, it's been like in the high nineties.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
So yeah, it's perfect.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Here in Nashville, it's perfect, cragging, just green and cool,
and it's so pretty. Yeah, it's so pretty. But again
that's not here nor there. But you know, hot sun
one hundred degrees and decomposing body.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
What a tragedy, awful, awful.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yeah, so listen, we will as this evolves, because really
right now there's much more questions than answers in this case.
But we will keep you up to date as info
comes out. This is true grime.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Tonight. We are on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
I'm Courtney Armstrong here luckily with Stephanie Lydecker, and we're
going over some headlines and Taha is also joining us,
and of course, as always Sam and Adam in the
control room. So listen, come and join. They just put
their muscles up, both of them. Everybody, just all the

(53:34):
men just put their arms up.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
The gun show, I mean.

Speaker 8 (53:37):
Nice, all right, I feel safe because it's radio, but
we are all very muscular.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Listen, there are no uh no water bottles or police
flash lights required by you guys.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
That's right, But that was actually that was a great tip.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Now I made a little fun of the flashlight, but
honestly making it that with the big boots, making it
look like who knows live.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
And that that big flashlight.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Also not to overestimate this, but also a fire extinguisher
next to your bed, double purpose. Now again, this may
sound crazy, but think about the fire extinguisher is a
pretty good weapon.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Yeah, I mean idea certainly. Yeah, and you'll never be
in a fire.

Speaker 10 (54:22):
My fear though, is like in the middle of the night,
someone's breaking in, Like I can barely find my glasses,
so I yeah, all.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
You want to do is go right. So that's why
you want it right by your bed. You should have
your big flat your huge flashlight. You won't even see it.
It's like right by your bed, your big like police
style flashlight, very sleek black.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
And then you have your fire extinguisher. Call me crazy,
but let's have that closed too, might as well.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
And then yeah, if you feel like there's an intruder
or something fishy happening, yeah, boom.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
It's right there.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
That's good.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I used to dog sit for this is that's an
irrelevant information, but it used to dogs that it's some
one's lovely house and I would sleep there.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
And they had a baseball bat.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
They said, just heads up, we keep a baseball bat
right under here for just in case.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
And I was like, oh, because that's a car.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
They're not as heavy though, are they as heavy? I mean,
I don't know anything about baseball. They got a lot.
I mean, since we're talking about it, they think of
how much leverage they are long, they're meant to swing,
and so you swing with more velocity, so you get nice, good.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Tip, great tip like this. Yeah, and so you know,
we'll have a baseball.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Bat, a flashlight which is also just good because the
lights go out right storms, and then a fire extinguisher.
You never know there's maybe a fire in the neighborhood
in the night. Now listen, we will be the last
one standing no matter what.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
Absolutely, I've got a bottle of water. I feel like,
you know, can't happen.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Can we get a bottle of wine too? Pop that
in pop that in slash as well. Yeah, that's right,
that's right.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
No, there's many things.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
So I actually I have an update on a story
that we've mentioned a few times, and this is the
story out of Australia that we've had so many calls
and talkbacks, like, uh so many. We were going to
do it tonight in a very big way too, So
this will be an ongoing.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Yeah, okay, just go Morgan. So we're just going to
give the headline.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
So in Australia, Aaron Patterson, she has been sentenced to
three life sentences and this just happened this week, and
that was for poisoning her husband's parents and aunt with
death cap mushrooms. So she had served her former in
laws and their relatives beef Wellington. So that's sort of

(56:47):
that's the beef that's wrapped in a mushroom mix that's
wrapped in I know tahas salivating.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Its delicious, it's delicious, and it's wrapped in a philo though,
Gordon Ramsey.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, so but she she served that with highly poisonous
mushrooms and this was a big deal. Yeah, good point
that we will be covering this with Joseph Scott Morgan.
But just some things to keep in the back of
your brain. There's been mixed reactions to this case. Well,
she was okay, so a scene setter, you know. On

(57:22):
the one hand, she's saying, look, I didn't know what
I'm not a botanist, I don't, I don't, I'm not
in the mushroom business.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
I got some.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Mushrooms and I served it to my beloved in laws
and and and it went sideways.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
That's one side.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
The other side is she was doing quite a bit
of research on deadly mushrooms and was identifying them in advance.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Is that accurate, Corney? One hundred percent?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
She had researched these specific death It's hard to get
around that she foraged for them locally, I honestly like
so she was like cooking to kill. She was cooking
to kill and so much so that and she wanted
to make sure her children were excluded from the lunch,

(58:09):
which was very odd. And then just on top of
all of it, she kind of brought them there, brought
these former in laws. She claimed to have cancer, so
she made a pretend cancer pronouncement to get them there
and made sure children weren't there. So yeah, between that
and the foraging and the research, I mean, she did

(58:30):
a lot of work into this lunch.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Wow, and the kids.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Can you imagine your mom is like doing this kind
of whack a do thing. Why why was she trying
to do this? She was at war with them? Let
me guess money, she.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Was at war with them.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I think she'd kind of It's something that we'll get
into her on a deep level when we go in.
We'll dive in just not just forensically, but also exactly why.
But it was a separation and then they reconciled, they
were exchanged again.

Speaker 10 (59:01):
It's kind of you and think about the kids when
these like if your parents commit this kind of murder,
like you have to live with that the rest of
your life, and it's just it's just horrible.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
But it's so insensitive and it's so horrible. Like you
say you would take a bullet for your kid. Okay,
get along with your in laws then rightactly figure it out.

Speaker 5 (59:22):
Yeah, no, it's it's so true.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
So but yeah, this one, I mean, we have had
sort of nothing but questions. But if you do have
questions about it, you know, in a couple of days,
probably likely on Sunday Day, Joseph Scott Morgan will be
back with us and we will be going into this.
And I'm so curious what a poison mushroom?

Speaker 11 (59:43):
Well?

Speaker 10 (59:43):
Do what do I look out for if I order
mushroom pizzas? There's something I should avoid.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
I love mushroom pizzas, so I should learn this too.
To be you should just never have a mushroom ever.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Again, I don't know if I'm I don't know if
I'm into that, but listen, I am into having everyone
stick around and join us, because after the break we
are finally going to get to true crime and chu
up and we want to hear you, so give us
a holler eighty eight.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Three one crime.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
We'll talk about it together, True Crime Tonight. Welcome back
to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime
all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong

(01:00:33):
and Taha House jumping into the hot seat as our
body move in. Is not with us this evening, and
a tough one at that. We will acknowledge it each segment.
Tough day, sad, sad, horrible day for so all of us, period.
It's for all of us, a tough day. School shooting
in Denver. One of the three has now died, and

(01:00:56):
of course you know this awful shooting that has happened
to Charlie Kirk and he too has died. There's a
video of this circling circulating everywhere. Frankly, I would encourage
you not to see it. I don't think it is
helpful in any other way. It's really triggering and awful.

(01:01:20):
It's so disturbing, and I get so upset. I mean,
as you had said earlier, I do not mean to bring.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
This back up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
But if there's any capacity, you have to keep this
out of the you know, view line of children as well,
because it is it's just sort of popping up everywhere,
So be mindful if I don't even know if that's
two cents to give or not, but yeah, it's everywhere
and it should.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
I've never seen anything in it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So one of those things like you you can't not
look right so and then you can't not see it,
and then you can't unsee it, and I don't know,
your DNA kind of changes a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
I am not into it. It is like a snuff movie.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Out of respect for his you know, beautiful family and
young family, his parents and everyone who was witnessed to
this tragedy. Again, we said it earlier, not to pontificate,
but you know, he was sharing his beliefs. He was
doing it with grace and with kindness and debating. By
the way, I grew up in a house. My dad

(01:02:18):
is no longer with us, but he was like the
great debater, and he we would have family over and
friends over, and we would have everybody would get into
these like wild, like exciting, fantastic arguments like they would
It would get real you know, and it was you know,
opinions were flowing and you know, but it was like

(01:02:39):
what was so interesting? And everybody kind of would leave
like all right, I'll give you that, you know, Oh good, right,
you know, and then like all right, I'll find the
hugs and you know, they next, you know, Irish, next thing.
You know, the Germans and the Irish, they're all having
a cocktail. But it was like there was so much
love there. That was like the creativity and the expansion
of ideas and people can evolve. You can feel one

(01:03:02):
way and then be you know, enlighten to feel a
different way, and the only way you get to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Do that is by talking things through.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
And it's just so tragic that that's what he was,
you know, attempting to do so uh and he was
murdered for it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
And I don't know where you put that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
So I think we all can agree not okay, uh
and horrible and wishing a lot of peace and love
to all who have been affected. And again, if you
have something you want to share, please do.

Speaker 7 (01:03:31):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Yeah, switching gears is something that seems incredibly meaningless in
the big scheme of things, but maybe that's just what
the doctor ordered.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
True crime and chill time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
We are taking a hard right turn into unknown number
The High School Catfish.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Okay, I have not seen it. No, no nowork.

Speaker 10 (01:03:56):
Spoiler alert because we're going to be revealing a little
bit about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Well, thank you, taha. We're gonna be revealing. I mean
there's one main thing. I mean there's many nuance, but
we will be spoiling it. And this is more than
almost anything. I feel like this is caught heat for
how surprising. Yeah, it's very surprising, So if you care
to watch it. It's been out for a minute though,

(01:04:21):
so I think it's it's a case.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
That's been around for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
There was also don't forget that Lisa Renna lifetime movie
where Lisa Renna plays a key character.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
But I won't even give.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
The title of it because that also will be a
spoiler alert. So go ahead, Court, you bring it the
set up, and then let's dive in. So here's the background.
We have two thirteen year old teens from Michigan. They
are blonde, they are sporty. The girl is Lauren Lacary
and her then boyfriend is Owen McKenny. So just a

(01:04:55):
darling little couple. They are going.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
They were going to a school house so.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Small that it literally housed from a pre k to
twelfth grade.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
So that's the community setting as well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
And also this is Beale, Michigan, and there's probably like
three hundred people in the entire town.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Heini teeny tiny.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
And so they start to get messages, this young couple,
series of intense harassing text messages, and it's repeatedly from
an anonymous phone number. And I'm talking about there are
many thousands upon thousands that happened. It goes on for
over a year, and largely they are directed towards the girl,

(01:05:44):
Lauren Lacari and things such as you are the ugliest
person I've ever seen, Nobody wants to see your anorexic
flat fill in the blank, and even so far as
suggesting that this young girl, Lauren uh kill herself. I mean,

(01:06:06):
this is prevalently in the documentary and in the case,
that's what was happening. And just to add to that again,
imagine getting fifty texts a day. You live in a
town of three hundred people, so you basically know everybody, right,
everybody knows everybody for a long time too. You know
everybody's parents, the uncles, the ANNs, the school. Yes, so
you know somebody is literally watching you, and it's likely

(01:06:28):
somebody you like very much. And all these sexual, horrible
texts coming through.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
We actually have a caller right now. Let's go join
the conversation.

Speaker 5 (01:06:39):
Caller Tiffany.

Speaker 10 (01:06:40):
I think they said to us, So, Hi, Tiffany, is
she there?

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
Can you hear us?

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
Hashtag? Red moon?

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
Oh r real quick?

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Done a number on us? Okay, Well, we're waiting for
me to get sorted. So yes, Stephanie. And and it's
just it's paranoia in this incredibly small town. And the
other thing to know is that a lot of these
threatening texts, as I said, we're directed towards Lauren, the
young girl, and she's thirteen, by the way, young thirteen

(01:07:15):
years old, thirteen years old, and it seems like these
texts are coming from a girl who maybe wants to
date Owen herself, because it's it's it's trying to break
this couple up.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Fair enough is a lot of what the text is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Oh, we got the call her back at it again.

Speaker 12 (01:07:34):
Hello, Hello, Defne, can you hear me?

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Hi today? Welcome to the show. Thank you so much
for calling in.

Speaker 5 (01:07:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 12 (01:07:43):
It's body.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
You silly, Oh my.

Speaker 5 (01:07:48):
God, because she had to be a part.

Speaker 12 (01:07:53):
Of this call.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Okay, so get ready, baby, because we were first of all,
how has your trip been?

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
We hope you're having so much fun.

Speaker 13 (01:08:03):
It's some wonderful It's exactly what I needed. It's the
reset I need in Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Okay, good, it's so wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Well, well, Boddy, you called it literally the perfect time,
as you know, the person who brought this whole idea
to everybody at True Crime tonight. So we just obviously
described everything about the case except for so now we
know that the couple Lauren and Owen, they have finally
broken up because of the harassment.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
And then we find out who was wait, no, one
more thing that I just think adds to the story.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yes, so they for sure these texts were directed at
Lauren thirteen years old, because the person was making very
sexual comments about how she wasn't fulfilling Owen as her
boyfriend as her girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
She wasn't doing enough of this and enough that add all.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
The grossest, most over sexualized comments you can come up with.
And also they break up because listen, Lauren and Owen
are starting to feel the pain.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
How can I get fifty texts.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
From a random person calling you a million horrible days.
You're a young girl thirteen years old, just trying to
keep her head up. By the way, she's perfect, you know,
she's like the most lovely, wonderful girl. They both are.
And it starts to take a toll emotionally, and she
starts to feel bad about herself. And then they do
who of them start bickering about it, Oh, do you
know the person? And it starts to take a toll

(01:09:29):
right like they don't have the tools, and they're saying, hey, help,
They get the police, they get.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Mom and dad, but both parents. Everyone's jumping in. Lauren's parents.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
They're suddenly like, this, we got to get to the
bottom of it. Owen's parents, we got to get to
the bottom of it. Both of the parents also come together,
the foursome of the parents. They become very tight, right,
they're going to fight this.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
They go to the school. Frankly, it seems like they
were about to go door to door to everybody in
the town.

Speaker 7 (01:09:56):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
It was becoming intense that way. But Lauren, especially, it
starts to wear on her self esteem and she's feeling
very broken.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
And then they break up. You know, young love too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
This is their everybody's like puppy love, right, and then Owen,
you know, he needs somebody else, he starts to date.
It's like a year goes by, by the way, it
doesn't time go by?

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
Am I getting more than a year?

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
So all this time goes by, Owen meets another girl
because he's supposed to and perfectly appropriate.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
And then guess what she starts getting the texts.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Oh, everybody wants Owen. So there's no question that everybody
wants Owen. And this that's the goal here. So now
this caller has gotten rid of Lauren, even though she's
like been telling Lauren to take her own life.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
That's how bad it got.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
That's part that stands out the most.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
I'm sorry I had to jump that in courtney. Go ahead, go.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
Ahead, now get to part here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
No, so all of that is happening.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
And then I think, since body called in that she
should be the one to to give that bailer who
was behind it.

Speaker 13 (01:11:03):
So we learn this in the most horrific way possible,
that it's Lauren's mother that is lending the text messages
to them.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
Can you yes? Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
The mother and the mother and the mother, and by
the way, there's this bodycam footage. So they figure it out,
they get the police involved, they get the FBI UBI,
and then the FBI starts. Yeah, they're like not playing,
They'll become they're like body moving. They're like, hey, I'm
not going to play with these ip addresses.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
I'm going to find this clown. And they go down the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Rabbit hole and they like they figure it out. Lauren's mother,
who's been consoling her every day, giving her all kinds
of love and devotion, is the root of the problem.
Police come in and they have this body cam footage,
which I thought was so I honestly, I'm like I
want to start, like I need to stand.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
I'm getting so angry just thinking about it.

Speaker 13 (01:11:54):
To run away.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
I hate it. So there is just to set the
scene if you have I don't watched it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
So there's Mom, she's like, you know, being mom, and Lauren,
who's been now you know, brutalized online and through these texts.
Police come they're like, uh, Lauren, well, hey Mom, we
got something to tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
We know it's you. She's like, oh, really, so weird.
And then so it was that it was so weird
and then Lauren.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
They tell Lauren, Oh, your mom's actually the problem, and
like the mom's like hugging on her, yeah, and she
had been for her, and little Lauren has that like
dis is sooiciated.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Like dead eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
You see the shock, the despair, and by the way,
I am enraged by it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
I'm enraged by this documentary in some way. To be honest,
I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
I don't think that Kendra got the answer. I want
more answers out of Kendra. First of all, eighteen months
is nonsense. Why is she not behind bars right now?
Why are we giving her a platform? We're giving her
a platform to be kind of like.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
It's a teen show. Woo, it's fun. At the beginning,
there's Kendra.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Ooh, No, Kendra's a criminal and should be in jail
the end.

Speaker 13 (01:13:09):
If it was me, if that was I would never
agree to go on this documentary. You would see like
a body moving holy man, right, you know, of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Course, God no, you'd be like living a very quiet
life far far away, hoping nobody ever knows this dastardly
thing about you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
But like what a wack yeah, would you?

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
And why are we even not asking her the hard questions, like, Kendra,
we have to agree this is completely bananas. Kendra's like, well,
we all do kind of like illegal things.

Speaker 5 (01:13:44):
No, we don't, guys.

Speaker 13 (01:13:48):
She was saying the most disgusting, vile, awful thing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
She was telling her own daughter to kill herself. It's
so mad.

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
I yeah, I.

Speaker 13 (01:14:03):
Was mad to Stephanie, I was so mad.

Speaker 10 (01:14:06):
Wow, I see I expect that turn. So that was
the surprise for me. But I mean, you know it was.
It was an interesting one. And we have to keep
keep various documentaries in our mix and various shows that
we're all going to watch together.

Speaker 5 (01:14:20):
This one I don't think Stephanie loved.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
But no, it was entertaining if it was if Lisa
Rena was starring in it, like the Lifetime movie version
that's called like mean mom, Yeah, I'm on board. It's
like totally interesting. But like it wasn't. It was like weird,
creepy mom, Like where was the therapist? Like, let's talk
about what Munchausen's you know, online by proxy actually is,

(01:14:43):
because that's a real diagnosis. I don't know, but it's
like the Gypsy Rose factor. Suddenly, you know, Kendra is
like a superstar. She's on everything where they're like her,
hate her. She has a really big platform and it
just it got me kind of bombed. I felt like
she needed to be more held a cont on.

Speaker 12 (01:15:00):
A ball, villainized.

Speaker 13 (01:15:01):
She needs to be more villainized, Like yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
Like let me hear it.

Speaker 13 (01:15:05):
Then let's learn from her, Like what the hell are
we doing? What are we doing? You know what I mean?
Like this lady is crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
Yeah she was like I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:15:17):
Yeah, no, Well we're about to go to break but.

Speaker 10 (01:15:20):
When we come back, we should tease what the next documentary.

Speaker 5 (01:15:24):
Is going to be, because we have a new one.
We're going to be watching body.

Speaker 10 (01:15:28):
You're going to love the one that we're going to
talk about, So stay tunedday tou tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Thank you Boddy for joining us for that. It would
not have been the same without you. We love you
and hope you are back to gallivanting and having a
great time on your time off well deserved and we
can't wait for you to be back on I think Sunday,
Sunday or Monday. So anyway, back to this crazy documentary, Courtney,

(01:16:03):
I want to hear from you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
What did you think you know?

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
And I had said this last week because I knew
the case, and so for me, but I got to
sit there and seethe, not from the midpoint on, but
from jump and seeing this woman with her vapid face
and this mother who was doing all of this, and

(01:16:27):
watching her from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Saying and I don't know, you know who could have.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Been doing this, and then to get further enraged in
the aftermath because when you find out again then.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
You see it unfold, and even the way she.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Was speaking about it with taking no culpability. I don't
know if the moment that creeped me out the absolute most,
and I don't know it was not the biggest moment
in it, but it was sort of towards the end,
and she's being asked something about, you know, going after
her daughter.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
As she was and saying the most despicable things.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
That sexually and kill yourself and otherwise horrible. But however
she phrased it, the interviewer asked.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
What do you like?

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
Who were you taught? Were you writing these to yourself?
Because the mom was pretending she wasn't writing it to
her daughter, and then you see a flicker in her
eyes she says, you know, I was underweight at that time,
I was a little antirexic. Maybe I was writing them
to myself. Do you remember that?

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
Of course? And also I do.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
And that's where I kind of felt like we should
have learned a little bit more about Hendra and how
did Hendra get to be at this place in her
life where this feels appropriate? Can we add a therapist?
Can we get a little accountability? Is there some takeaway
that maybe the rest of us could learn so we
could spot Munchausen's online? How about the other mother of

(01:17:54):
Owen who's like making friends with this wackadoo.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
This wackado is going to all of his games and stuff. Editor,
Like you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Don't think, oh, preditor, Yeah, literally a predator, not even
like right, she was being a predator. So I can't
I didn't learn anything, like I feel like that just
felt like Kendra is a star and like this isn't
like a pretend thing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
It was quite real.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
No, And Kendra, I mean she you know, she also
made horrible messes of several teenagers' lives. I mean she
free them, then they were ostracized. She ruined so many
lives and just got to sit there and kind of
smile about it. And to your point, Stephanie say, we've

(01:18:37):
all done things we should have been arrested for, right, right, Like, no, girl, no, Kendra,
hard no on all of this hard No, It's part
of the problem that there was such little accountability. How
about They were like, uh, well, don't you think it
was kind of bad that you were sending your daughter
text and telling her to kill herself?

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
She was like, well, I didn't really think that.

Speaker 5 (01:18:57):
I knew.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
I you know, I knew she was going to not
do that.

Speaker 11 (01:19:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Oh, because you're so sane that you're reading the room
so well, Kendra, why are we giving Kendra all of
this airtime?

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
I think that it stressed me out. I got a little,
I got a little, I got a little bothered by it. Yeah, understood. Well, listen,
we have a talk back, and I want to know.
We are demanding to We're demanding to know.

Speaker 7 (01:19:25):
Hi.

Speaker 11 (01:19:25):
I have a question about the unknown number of the
high school Catfish documentary.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
Do you think that the mom.

Speaker 11 (01:19:32):
Was obsessed with the boyfriend or do you think that
she was jealous of her daughter or maybe like the
attention that she was getting from her daughter from these
ticks that she was receiving.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
Thank you, Well, I can jump in a little bit
on that because I went down the rabbit hole. It's
basically Munchausen's online proxy. It's basically Munchausen's is the same
thing that Gypsy Rose had, Right, So it's typically mom
her mother had, Yeah, exactly, her mother had. Correction, Usually
it's a caregiver. It's traditionally women, you know, always, but

(01:20:08):
it seems like a ninety nine percent of time, and
it's often moms who actually they give the pain that
they are also being praised for curing. So, oh, you're
so she's going through it, but yet Kendrick gets to
be like the most devoted mother who's a hero to
her daughter, who's consoling her, even though she's the reason

(01:20:30):
the daughter needs consoling. It's really wicked. So they didn't
really get into that too much. But yeah, it sounds
like she was super jealous of everybody and wanted a
ton of attention. I'm sweet for Owen who was fourteen
years old.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
You weirdo.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Yeah, it's so gross, top to bottom. Yeah, I think
every single thing you said going to be a B
or C.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
The answer is D. All of the above. I think
every point was astute and they're all correct.

Speaker 5 (01:20:53):
Yeah, that one is done.

Speaker 10 (01:20:57):
But we do have a new doc that we're going
to be watching or new show that we're going to
be watching for our true crime and Chill and Steph
and I think you've already started watching.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Oh yes, yes, okay, I've gotten all teed up behind
the scenes. Okay, So okay, I am really curious about
this Amanda Knox. She has this new scripted show out
on Hulu, The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Love it and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
Really her story, but it's it's it's not a documentary.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
This is the acting version.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
There's actresses, and she's the executive producer. She's worked very
closely on this project. I've heard her speak about it
in press and it's very juicy and very important. And
Amanda Knox is getting a lot of press right now
because again very controversial. We'll remember her from Italy. She
was accused of killing her roommate and many think to

(01:21:52):
this day that she did.

Speaker 5 (01:21:55):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
However, hey, spoiler alert, Well do I spoil? I mean
it's fat?

Speaker 5 (01:22:00):
Ok yeah, I think she didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
There's like somebody it's been proven not guilty, and somebody
is guilty and behind bar is serving time for it,
but yet we don't seem to really realize that. So
it's a real inspiring story but also a real great watch.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
Because the drum roll, that's on Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
We're going to talk about it on Wednesday, one week
from today, because the following day, get this, True Crimers
Amanda Knox will be joining us on True Crime Tonight
herself for the whole hour. Yeah, oh my gosh, Thursday,
September eighteenth, Set your watches, get.

Speaker 10 (01:22:41):
Those talkbacks in right now. Yes, yes, she's going to
be here. You can ask her almost anything. So I'm ready.

Speaker 5 (01:22:47):
I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (01:22:48):
This is so exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
I just I can't believe it, and I'm so I'm
so interested and I'm so happy for her generosity to
share her story, and it's really inspiring. I mean, this
is somebody who was like hated by the whole country,
her family torn apart, she had to learn Italy behind
bars just to be able to defend herself and listen,

(01:23:12):
they were looking to throw away the key. Yes, period, absolutely,
and she's going to be with us to tell us
how that didn't happen and then we'll watch the show.
So all all the story, So yay, I'm excited.

Speaker 10 (01:23:26):
I cannot wait. So I'm geared up for that. So
everyone's going to be watching that. It's The Twisted Tale
of Amanda Knox on Hulu. So start watching now and
next Wednesday we'll talk about it and the following day
we're going to talk to Amanda personally.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
It has that good actress in it too. From Have
you guys watched the show? Tell me lies?

Speaker 3 (01:23:44):
Oh no, but I know, love it right?

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
It like it was a good, juicy, juicy watch. It's
not crime related. It's like teen angst college horrifying. There
is a crime though, actually it is crime. It is crimey,
but it's you know, it's like it's like a it's
juicy and soapy. Anyway, the actress at stars and that
is so good, is it Grace ben Patten? Yes, exactly,

(01:24:08):
and she plays Amanda NX.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
I love it.

Speaker 10 (01:24:12):
Okay, Well, I'm excited. I'm gonna say that's my weekend excitement.
So I'll be watching that one. But in the meantime,
we actually have another hauler that is on the line.

Speaker 5 (01:24:22):
This one.

Speaker 10 (01:24:22):
I'm going to set the stage for this one. Her
name is Samantha. She's from New Jersey. Do you guys
remember we got a DM from someone that said they
printed up these T shirts that.

Speaker 5 (01:24:33):
Said allegedly allegedly allegedly. Yeah, well, she.

Speaker 10 (01:24:38):
Is on the line right now and she's been dying
to talk to you.

Speaker 5 (01:24:42):
She's a big fan. Is Samantha there to talk to us?

Speaker 6 (01:24:44):
Now?

Speaker 12 (01:24:46):
Hey, you guys, how else?

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Samantha, how are you, ladies?

Speaker 12 (01:24:52):
I'm so good. I just want to say that I
was never a podcast early, but my friend Chris put
me on to you guys, and I am hooked.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
Oh my word, you're the greatest.

Speaker 12 (01:25:07):
You guys.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
Listen, we got your DM and we've been passing around.
We got such a smile out of it. The T
shirt so basically so Samantha puts together the allegedly allegedly
allegedly artwork on a T shirt which we're going to
totally now reproduce, and we're going to do a long
sleeve version as well, per request. We've gotten some feedback
about it should be both short sleeved and long sleeved.

(01:25:31):
But you were so great to put that together and
we're so grateful.

Speaker 12 (01:25:36):
Oh my gosh, I'm so happy you guys loved it.
I was like, you know what, I had this idea.
And I was talking to my boyfriend because he makes shirts,
so I said, you know, can you make me a
shirt that says allegedly allegedly allegedly and add you know,
crime scene taped to it? So he came up with
a crew ideas, yes, the caution tape. So I was like,

(01:25:56):
you know what, let me just send it and see
if those you know and you guys did And I
was like, oh, I'm definitely fan grooming right now.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Fan girling over you, Samantha. Yeah, it's awesome. So we're
gonna order then, can we and your boyfriend we've been
like a little off the rails and I we apologize.
We're like emotionally so spent. I feel like we're all
emotionally all over the place. But it's such a joy
that have you here. So does your boyfriend make these
t shirts? Because then we'll order them from him.

Speaker 12 (01:26:31):
Yes, yep, he's actually getting a website together so it
can be ordered right off the site. But yeah, I
can actually when that's finished, I can send you guys
through your Instagram page and send you all the details.

Speaker 3 (01:26:46):
Yeah, we don't even need the website. We'll just like
order some in bulk.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
You know, so we can give them to some callers
please to help the cause.

Speaker 12 (01:26:53):
Yeah, that would be great, even if we can do
like you said, mugs or coffee like coffee mugs.

Speaker 7 (01:26:59):
Or you know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
Yeah, yes, I love it. We thought we had a
big idea, but allegedly, allegedly, allegedly you made the deal happen.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
So nice job.

Speaker 12 (01:27:20):
Every time you say allegedly allegedly allegedly, it like scratches
my brain. It sounds so good.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Well, and what is life like for you in New Jersey?
We've been talking about such dark things. Tell us something
happy and bright. What's life like for you in New Jersey?

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (01:27:39):
Life is good, you know, just working coming home. The
weather is still the weather is still good. But yeah,
life is good.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:27:48):
I'm looking to you guys every morning, every afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
Samantha.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
By the way, I just so I grow both of us.
Actually no, also, yeah, coast kids. And I had never
been to Hoboken, but I went last time I was
back east. And I don't know how near Hoboken you
are if you're far from the city, but man, what
a great town it is.

Speaker 12 (01:28:16):
Yeah, Hoboken is Hoboken is beautiful. I don't know like
an hour from Hoboken.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
Yeah, okay, is it real great?

Speaker 12 (01:28:24):
I'm yeah, yes, I'm closer to six Flags.

Speaker 5 (01:28:28):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Yeah, that's every year, every year, after the prom.

Speaker 3 (01:28:34):
Every year. That's what happened sixth grade. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
It's a tradition. You go to your school prom or
your junior prom, and then after that we go to
six Flags Sunday after the prom, and it's the greatest
six Flags ever.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
And it's the greatest six Flags ever. Dare I say it? There?

Speaker 5 (01:28:52):
I said it? Claim yeah, thinking of you said it,
it's true. I believe it's well.

Speaker 12 (01:29:02):
I didn't want to see a quick shout out to Taha,
Sam and Adam.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Yeah, we to.

Speaker 5 (01:29:13):
The text is in the mail. I'm mailing it right now.
Thank you, happen. I appreciate it.

Speaker 12 (01:29:20):
Thanks for the sure.

Speaker 3 (01:29:21):
I know.

Speaker 5 (01:29:22):
I can't wait to wear.

Speaker 10 (01:29:22):
We're going to take a picture of it once we
get them and send that to you so you can
see how you inspired us to wear.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
The new allegedly allegedly line of clothing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
So yeah, the official true crime tonight swag. I'm into
it finally at last, all right, Well, we're creating a
movement here, thank you for making a smile and giggle
and laugh at it seemed like a very really tough
start in a really awful day for all of us.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
So thank you for bringing the light to us.

Speaker 12 (01:29:51):
Of course, and thank you guys every day.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
Oh you have to come, Samantha. We'll see you soon.

Speaker 12 (01:29:56):
Take care, Samantha, already, take care.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
I love the name Samantha too, and she has the
best voice. Yeah, that was my.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
I wanted that to be my name, so bad girling
name because then I could go by Sam.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
Yeah. I used to have my Oh, it was a
whole thing. I used to like ask.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
Yeah, that was my like make believe name when I
was a little kid.

Speaker 5 (01:30:22):
And to God, the name. We all have secrets.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Listen, Sam, Hey, Samantha, thank you for that such a
you know, listen. We are sending so much love in
peace out there. Our hearts are with the victims tonight.
We will be back tomorrow, so thank you for listening
and being with us. Stay safe. This is true crime tonight.
We've been talking true crime all the time.