LAPD Breaks Silence on D4VD and High-Profile Epstein Fallout Escalates

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Monday, September twenty ninth. We
made it through Monday, everybody, and we are so happy
that you're here. I'm Stephanieleidecker, and the band is back together.
Body move in, and Courtney Armstrong is back with a
bit of a ruckous voice. She was at her high

(00:40):
school reunion and lives to tell the tale. Courtney say
a quick hello, Yes, hello, My voice might be a
little horse. It was very well worth it, and I'm
so thrilled to me party animal idiot.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Oh my gosh, just hearing you makes me hurt.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
No, honestly, I'm fine. It was just yelling over the music.
So wow. It makes me want to rage when I
hear Courtney's voice like that. That is a sign of
a great weekend, right, You're seeing friends, you're being loud,
you're hugging too much, and you have a smile at
ear to ear, So it must have been a great one.
We're so happy you're back because listen, we have a

(01:18):
stacked night of headlines LAPD. It's officially broken at silence
in the Celestreva's case, still no arrest. Pop star David
not a suspect, so let's be very clear about that. Also,
Tyler Robinson, Charlie Kirk's accused assassin, had a hearing today,
not in person, it was only audio, but will unpack that. Also,

(01:41):
some more names, high profile ones have been released with
ties to sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. What does that mean?
And one celebrity has made a really bold move after
learning the project that she was working on had ties
to Sarah ferguson which we were covering last week. And
later in the show, we're also going to to do
a deep dive finally on all of our phones, our

(02:04):
internet awareness, our safety online. Everybody grab your phones because
again later in the show, we're going to be telling
you with our great expert who actually will give us
the real play by play while we have our phones
in our hands of what to delete, what to kit Hoff,
So Katie Greer will be with us, and we also
finally have Lauren Gellert she's on the show. As the

(02:26):
head of original Programming at WeTV, Lauren launched the hit
series Love After Lockup, which basically chronicles people who are
falling in love after they've been incarcerated or at least
one of them has been incarcerated. Also the spinoff Life
After lock Up, and she served as the series executive
producer for multiple seasons, making the show a number one

(02:48):
hit on the network. We'll be discussing some of the
troubles people face, you know, especially couples that have at
least one of them has been incarcerated. Is there really
Love after lock Up? We're going to find out out
right from the source. So here we go, Boddy. I
know we're going to go to the.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
First story with you, but first let's go to a
talk back. Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
So, did David have like a concert with a coffin
on the stage after her death? And then did you
guys see where another underage girl has come forward saying
that he was really weird and strange and she's got receipts.

(03:30):
I mean, she's got the screenshots to prove it.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, so, I you know the coffin thing. Listen, it's
kind of like Ozzy, right, you know Ozzy had like
this you know, demonic presence, right, But the reality of
Ozzy was that he was a teddy bear.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
You know.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
It's you know, when you're a performer, you're playing a character, right,
So I think that a lot of the things that
you know, David's performance has. You know, it's just a
little bit too on the nose, don't you guys think,
like you know, the video of him if for a
roman to comicide, putting, you know, a girl in a
trunk and whatnot, it's just a little for me, it's

(04:06):
a little too ominose.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well it does.

Speaker 5 (04:08):
If this was a book, it would seem like it
was sort of poorly plotted, right, and that it was
too obvious. So it's going to be really compelling to
see how this investigation, yes plays out, I agree.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I mean, by the way, because that's two part right.
On the one hand, this is somebody who was not
a formal suspect and yes, his car yet but isn't
yet so he should not and cannot be tried in
the press. But he did have a young girl dismembered
found in his car, the car that was registered to him,
and that's tough, especially when the lyrics in one of

(04:43):
your songs call it a really eerie coincidence. Really is
speaking about killing a young woman and putting her in
his trunk. That's a tough one. But again, is it
or is David being framed by somebody who's basically placing
him and using car and the lyrics and it's maybe
there's more to it. I do think it's been now

(05:04):
what twenty one days twenty talked about this last night?
Why has there been no suspect named?

Speaker 6 (05:11):
Right?

Speaker 3 (05:11):
And you know as far as the other girl that
you know, the old girl has come forward, you know,
according to the talkback. I am very familiar with that,
and we haven't reported on it because it really can't
be authenticated. I can create it. I can change Courtney's
name in my phone to David and say all these
messages are from David, you know what I mean? Like,

(05:32):
it is interesting that you know this text exchange that
has been published, but again, it can't be authenticated, and
so we haven't really talked about it, and I don't
think we're going to write I mean, it's you know,
because like again David, it's very sus by the way, Okay,
First of all, we know, you know that there was

(05:53):
some kind of relationship between him and a little girl,
and moving forward again, I want to refer to her
as a fourteen year old girl. Listen, the LAPED came
out with the statement today.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
And Monday we hear it. Yeah, that'sbati.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
So this happened about four hours ago, so it's pretty
hot off the presses. So it says the Los Angeles
Police Departments Robbery Pomicide Division has been diligently investigating the
death of Celeste Revus Hernandez over the past several weeks.
At this time, we can confirm that Celeste Revs Hernandez
is deceased and her body was found in the front

(06:29):
trunk area of a tesla belonging to David Burke. The
vehicle had been parked at the location from which it
was towed for several weeks, so Miss Revus Hernandez may
have been deceased for several weeks before the discovery of
her body. The Los Angeles County Medical Examiner has not
yet determined the cause or manner of Miss Revs Hernandez's death.

(06:53):
As such, it remains unclear whether there is any criminal
culpability beyond the conceit of her body, and then it
goes on to say that we're investigating a rangle. But
that's the statement, that's the update form LPD. Really everything
we kind of already been talking about. Anyway. Last night
we talked about all the dirt that was on the

(07:14):
car that Stephen Fisher was able to get the private
investigator friend of mine called it, that was able to
get you know, the pictures and you know all the
dirt that was on this car. I mean, and listen,
I grew up in southern California. We all know what
it's like. There doesn't rain a lot, right, so this
dirt can build up on your car if parked. I think,

(07:36):
I think we're gonna find and this is just me
spitfalling that this car had been parked there since mid
to late July. I feel like that's what we're gonna
we're gonna learn. But again, this is all just kind
of news right now, Like we just don't have a
lot of information. I think talks. I think the toxology report,

(07:56):
which again can take a while in cases, it can
take a while. I think that's going to probably give
the medical examiner some indication of what happened to miss
Revis Sernandez.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
I haven't seen anything from David the pop star himself. Obviously,
this is a lot of you know, this is bad publicity.
He was on tour, his tour has now since been canceled.
You know, we always thought, well, he had an alibi.
Obviously he wasn't in the mix, he wasn't even in
Los Angeles perhaps, but this changes that timeline significantly, which.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well for and it could be really bad. Two stuff
to your point, because if you know, if you know,
we are correct, and that car had been sitting there
since you know, maybe the end of July. You know,
some of these cloud services for security footage and what
not only hold things for thirty days, and it might
have extended beyond. And this might be another reason LAPD.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Listen.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
I'm just trying to find reasons that we haven't really
had any information from the LAPD because I feel like
the absence of information is information.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's so true. And by the way, if you're just
joining us, welcome, jump in. Join the conversation. Eight eight
eight three one crime. We're talking about the new developments
in the Celeste Revis case. There still has been no arrest,
no person of interest allegedly, I have to assume the
tesla that the body was found in, by the way,
fifteen years old. If you're just joining us that the

(09:22):
tesla has all of these high ticket cameras and ways
of tracking things, it's surprising to me that that doesn't
have more obvious data or that that's just not being
released to the press. That could be as well.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
To be sure, and I assume it's two things.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
One is it maybe this person who has this tesla
that this body was found in. It's very different charges
if a body is being tossed in a car. Let's
just play out a spo example. Maybe she walked into
a wall and knocked herself up, sure, okay, Or you
know toxicology that would imply maybe she drank something and

(09:58):
it was drugged and she didn't realize it. Or the
person who had the drugs they didn't realize they were
giving to her. Let's just pretend a million things. Then
they're like, oh, my goodness, there's this unexpected death of
this young girl who shouldn't be in our care or
my care. Again, I'm not making any accusations, just playing
it out. What do you do and in a moment

(10:19):
of panic, they dismember her body and put her in
a car. The dismember the body put her in a
car seems like that's something that we also should be
a little closer on the answer for, even if that's
not homicide or a manner of death.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
We had a load we haven't heard about the dismemberment, Okay,
so the press reported that, So I don't know if
the police actually said that or if that was something like,
you know, a cop set off hand. You know, we
just don't know. The dismemberment just is for me, it's
up in the air. If it's actual dismemberment or not,
we don't or.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Her body was just in a state that's therefore it Yeah,
right now, absolutely, I absolutely agree.

Speaker 5 (10:59):
And one of the thing I did want to just
underline is Captain Scott Williams, he is the LAPD captain.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Who's leading this investigation.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
The medical examiner really does seem to hold a lot
of the cards at this point. You know, they're saying
they don't know. It could be foul play, it could
be a drug overdose, it could be anything else. So
they're really leaving everything open right now because it is
nothing has been determined to our knowledge, right.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
And again if and again I think it's you know,
the absence of information is kind of information sometimes and
the fact that we haven't heard anything from the LAPD
until just now and really it was nothing, leads me
to believe that they, you know, either are waiting for
them to determine a cause now with a with dismemberment.

(11:47):
As Joseph Scott Morgan so eloquently pointed out, there'll be
tool marks, they'll be things like that, So we should
be able to get some kind of indication from the
medical examiner if in fact that was what happened to
for Clest. But again, you know, she was found a
day after her fifteenth birthday and she had been in
that car for several weeks, so she was fourteen years old.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
And again that's a whole other set of charges, right,
So that would imply the relationship. If in fact this
relationship happened with this pop star David, then yeah, there's
statutory limination, you know, implications there as well. And again
for her for her mother, you know, her brother has
spoken out Celeste's you know family, This is very tough.

(12:31):
She was a runaway, you know, they reported her missing
more than once. They also retrieved her, according to reports,
and brought her back from said pop stars place at
some point. She's a really young girl, you know.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
I so today that they reported her missing a couple
of days before her body was found. So they reported
her missing officially in April of twenty twenty four, and
then again just a couple of days before. I didn't
know that until today.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's almost like maybe mom had a six you know,
maybe for so much.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, I don't know. But some of David's friends have
come forward. Do you guys read about these I did.
So some of the friends have come forward, and they
believe Celus was nineteen and the USC student, based on
like her presence at all these social events, and she
had all these fake IDs to get into all these venues.
They David and Celeste were together and they believed they

(13:23):
were romantically involved. They described David as kind of like
a shy, quiet guy, and Celeste, you know, mirrored parroted
his personality. Friends had limited knowledge about CELESTI on seeing
her with David at social events, and they were surprised
Celeste was underage since she attended all these multiple you know,
restricted venue kind of places where David was was performing right,

(13:46):
so apparently she had all these fake IDs. The relationship
between the two, it's not really been cemented, like what
kind of relationship they had, but the friends are reporting
that they were very close but private about their relationship,
and they do believe they were romantically were romantically involved.

Speaker 7 (14:06):
But I have to I was just going to jump
in and say, I I mean, not that I'm you know,
anybody side with this, but if I were one of
his friends, wouldn't you say you thought she was an adult?
Like it just looks awful to be hanging out.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
I agree that's true. They could be trying to cover
their tracks, right.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
And just playing devil's advocate. Not to call myself out,
but I've had a fake ID and I snuck in
shoe places that I shouldn't have been, So you know,
it's possible that maybe maybe she was Courtney's got my
back on that. I listened to that voice. That's somebody
with a fake idea who sneaks into places. Is it
possible that she had a fake ID and presented herself

(14:45):
to be older than she was, maybe even to David
the pop star himself. I don't know, maybe that became
a hot topic, and maybe this has led to her death.
I don't know. I just want answers for this beautiful
young girl and her family. Yeah, and you know, and
if David's not associated with this and this is all
a misunderstanding, you know, that's a real bummer for him

(15:06):
as well, his careers, you know, really down the tank
as a result. Listen, we want to hear from you again.
Eight eight, eight to three one crime. Jump in or
leave us a talk back. We're going to be right
back and talk a bit more about Tyler Robinson's hearing today.
Is there enough evidence to keep him? And also Lauren
Gellert from Love After lock Up, The executive producer will

(15:27):
also be with us. This is True Crime Tonight, Stick
with us. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.
We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker
here with party pants, Courtney Armstrong back with us, and

(15:50):
of course body move in. We are breaking all the
cases down again. We wanted just throw one other thing
out there. You guys have been sending the greatest dms
and tips and feedback in cases, and even if we're
not discussing them real time, we are getting them and
we are working on them. So keep those coming. Hit
us up on our socials, at True Crime Tonight's show

(16:10):
on Instagram and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook,
or he could always hit us up and leave us
a talk back, which let's do one now, Oh, let's
do it.

Speaker 8 (16:21):
Have any of you guys heard the rumors going around
how they are relating the Charlie Kirk assassination with the
movie Snake Eyes. Also for Joseph Morgan, has he heard
anything come out from the corner about how now allegedly

(16:42):
the bullet actually didn't come from the front, it came
from the back.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Ooh, this is a really complicated, layered one. We had
Joseph Scott Morgan on last night. I can't speak to
the Snake Eyes. I haven't seen that movie, but I
mean am curious. I can say from Joseph Scott's Morgan,
who is so trusted, he is saying there is nothing
to see there, that the autopsy and us not having
the autopsy is total protocol. There would not be an

(17:10):
investigation or a homicide investigation of this level without an autopsy,
and that it is still an open case and that's
why we don't have this information. And I don't want
to put words in his mouth. Body jump in if
I'm r I misheard this, that the entry point of
the bullet based on the forensics and the information that's

(17:31):
out there for you know, more of a scientific look.
Because we hear all this chatter too. We're getting hit
up on all kinds of places. And again, we never
want to talk about stuff that hasn't been substantiated. There's
like you can talk about guns and their impact and
how a head would and how a melon would. There's
an exception to all rules, and according to Joseph Morgan,

(17:51):
it's inaccurate. These are inaccurate theories that are perpetuating the problem.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
So, yeah, that's the last we spoke about it.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, what is the story with the Snake Eyes movie
with Nicholas Cage? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Is that the movie? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (18:07):
I heard about it, but I think we were talking
about it earlier, and I think Adam actually was Adam.

Speaker 9 (18:14):
Adam.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
It strikes me as a very big Nicholas Cage accurate,
you know what.

Speaker 10 (18:19):
Well?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
I like him. I like him.

Speaker 10 (18:21):
I'm not a diehard, but who doesn't love Nicholas just
so long Legs.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
It was so good.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Oh, so long Legs is too scary, so scary. I
interviewed him once and he was so nice, he was
so absolutely yeah, but long Legs very scary.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Snake Eyes, what is this about?

Speaker 10 (18:35):
Yeah, well I have not seen Snake Eyes, but Nicholas Cage.
He plays a detective investigating a political assassination that takes
place at a boxing match. And so in the last
few I've been seeing this pop up on my feed,
just in the whirlwind of speculation on the Charlie kirk shooting.
So there are some you know, there's strange parallels between

(18:58):
the assassination and this movie, a few of which, and
I'm not saying I endorse this, but these.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Are yeah, like what lay it on us?

Speaker 2 (19:05):
A few of them.

Speaker 10 (19:06):
The person who is assassinated in the Snake Eyes movie,
his name is Charles Kirklin. There is a person who
is distracting at the scene of the assassination, and this
character is called Tyler, the executioner. What the assassinator's initials
are tr And then the boxing match where the assassination

(19:26):
takes places on September tenth, which is very strange, but
day make that way.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Oh wow, those are pretty interesting parallels.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
It's interesting, but it kind of reminds me of what
is it playing the soundtrack to Adam or Sam?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Are going to know this when you're watching The Wizard
of Oz? Oh, it's so good? Yeah? In college.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
By the way, I think that tracks Dark Side of
the Moon, the Dark Side.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Of the Moon. If you play that while you're watching
a Wizard of Oz, it completely sinks up. Yep, this
is true, though, Is this is true?

Speaker 3 (19:59):
They had it at the laser place in la for
a while, didn't they. The Yeah Planetarium or whatever the
heck it's called.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's where I saw it. Actually, yea is so interesting
and so good, so separate topics. But I say that.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Not to underline, you know, what this comparison is, but
to say that we live in a big universe and
there are many things that can line up that may
have may very likely.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Have nothing to do with anything, but it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
Sometimes a coincidence is just a coincidence too, That's right.
It's an eerie It is interesting. It is interesting, like
especially Tyler the Executioner.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh my God, or the Date.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
To Me and Charles Kirkland.

Speaker 10 (20:43):
It's just these these Internet people are amazing. They just
who are these people who watched Snake Eyes last night and.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Off the top of their head, I just have Snake
Eyes is having a big resurgence. Well, listen the forensics.
It's still so many pieces to this puzzle will be
released in time and again. The accused assassin in court
today disituation enough evidence not in court. He had a
hearing right, so he didn't appear in person, right, So

(21:10):
that happened today.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
Tyler Robinson, he's the man accused of shooting Charlie Kirk.
He was in court today and the judge emphasized Tyler's
presumption of innocence and granted the defense more time to
review the extensive evidence before the next hearing, central for
October thirtieth. Apparently there's a mountain of evidence. I bet

(21:32):
against him, and so Charlie Kirk, you know, as we know,
he was a conservative influencer and founder Attorney Point USA,
and he was fatally shot in front of all of us.
It was horrific on September tenth, twenty twenty five, during
a speaking event at Utah Valley University. As we know,
Charlie goes, he goes to or he would go to
college campuses and have debates with students. Tyler Robinson is

(21:54):
the accused shooter. He's twenty two. He was arrested and
charged with aggravated murder and six other fact and says
with prosecutors seeking the death penalty. So this hearing that
happened today occurred virtually. Tyler Robinson apparently appeared off camera
from the jail. He called in. The judge's name is
Tony Graff, and he's stressed that Robinson's constitutional right to

(22:18):
be presumed in a sense, and he vowed impartiality during
this whole process, which I think is important. You know,
this is absolutely high publicity case, and you know we've
covered these throughout the years. We know how crazy in
the weeds you can get. Judge Graff granted this request
for more time and set the next hearing for October thirtieth,

(22:38):
And in this hearing, Tyler Robinson is expected to appear
in person. Prosecutors are planning to present DNA alleged confessions
and other materials to support the charges, including aggravated murderer.
Robinson faces a total of seven charges, including aggravated murder
which I've already mentioned, felony discharge, of a firearm causing

(23:01):
serious injury, obstruction of justice, witness tampering, and violent offenses
in the presence of a child. And honestly, I'm surprised
there wasn't a charge for all all those people in danger.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, everybody, everybody that was there that day. Yeah, that's
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Like the bullet flew over people's heads, right, Like, isn't
that putting like a bunch of people in danger?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, by the grace of God, so the people didn't
lose their lives.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, Well, we're going to be following up on this obviously.
The next hearing, like I said, is October third, that
will no more than this is true crime Tonight on iHeartRadio,
I'm body Movin and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, Party
Pants and Stephanie Laideker and we have been talking about
the murder or the assassination really of Charlie Kirk and
Tyler robertsonn't appear to cour today, but we're gonna go

(23:48):
to a talkback. Let's hear it.

Speaker 11 (23:49):
This is Elon again. I'm curious what we are supposed
to do around all this in cell top or talk
about young men acquiring guns and doing mass violence. Is
it a matter of parents being more aware of their

(24:10):
children online? What are we to do to improve?

Speaker 3 (24:15):
What a great question you on how the answer? I
wish I knew, you know what I mean. I think
talking about it is important. I think that's you know,
getting everybody kind of educated, including us, right like exactly
we're learning this real time, right. I think talking about
it and being open is going to be important. I
don't have kids, you know, I wasn't blessed with that,

(24:37):
but I can't imagine how scary it is for moms
and dads of young men who are living life right
now and how to handle this kind of thing. What
do you guys think?

Speaker 2 (24:47):
You guys, we're so down this rabbit hole on our
podcast in Cells because the idea of a like a
lone wolf, right, that's what we're seeing a lot of
right now, are these radicalized young men who are who
are taken aim and it's hard, you know, And Courtney,
you'll recognize the voice of Courtney Armstrong on the podcast

(25:10):
in Cells. Just can't talk right now. But and body
does such a great job on it as well. But
you know, really for law enforcement, and we're talking about
this in the next hour as well. If you're looking
at safety online or in the dark web, but you're
looking for patterns for groups, some of these smaller groups,
like you know, if in fact Tyler Robinson, the accused,

(25:31):
if he's done this, ugh, I mean, like this is
somebody who's in a small chat who's essentially confessing and
like you know, chit chatting about it on discord. And
again that's a small group. So how does law enforcement
on the web. I say that in air quotes monitor
for these individual pop ups because that's what we're seeing

(25:53):
a lot of right now. Are these young men that
you are suffering? And is that constitutional to be monitoring it?
And like how do you find this Tyler Robinson guy?
If you know they're gonna suddenly have a mission in
their mind and go off and and and do such
a thing, it's really a tough time. So yeah, I

(26:14):
would say in cells is a really deep unpack of this.
And if you haven't had a chance to check it
out on the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
We hope that you do, and we'd love your feedback
about it. Yeah, it's you know, it's scary, and I,
like I said, I do think talking about it as
we are exactly people are, you know, shedding light on it.
It's kind of like the disinfectant I think in a
low ways, you know, exactly, and not only not only
to obviously to prevent violence, for sure, but you know,

(26:44):
not every in cell is a dangerous person, right. I
think that's really important too. And we're not we're not
even implying that Tyler Robinson was an in cell, like
by any stretch of the imagination, you know, we're not
implying that. We do know he was a gamer and
he had discord and things like that. That doesn't mean
as an insult. Well, we're just talking about it in
general terms. But I do think shedding light on things

(27:04):
is sort of a disinfectant for these kinds of things,
and maybe you know, get them some help too, because
they're lonely and sad right there, I guess son lonely
and we don't want young, our young men of this
country to feel this way.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
And it's again, it's not all men, but it is
a call to attention for us to better understand, even
whether you're a parent or not, sort of what could
be possible and how quickly it's all changing so fast,
you know, these are crimes that are being plotted and planned,
perhaps under our noses, and you know, in your basement,
and you don't even know how to check for it,
which is pretty extraordinary. And don't forget like the ripple

(27:39):
effect of people's families, whether it's the actual you know,
assassin if in fact, Tyler Robinson is the person, like
for his family, like, what a tough spot to have
to turn your kid in call authorities like that is,
you know, just an ordinary day, can you imagine? And
then for the victims, you know, and of course for
Charlie Kirk's beautiful family. I mean, this one's it's a

(28:01):
tough one. It's a tough one and we're all sort
of getting through it.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
I do have to say, just the shedding light body,
as you mentioned, I've spoken to several people just in
my life who've listened to episode one and or episode
one and two of In Cells, and these are bright
people and they didn't know what is going on. So
it is important for even if we're not talking about
the highest level of violence, right, you know, the vast

(28:26):
majority of people who are suffering being an in cell,
you know, to be able to spot it in our lives.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
And they're self admittedly suffering. This isn't me painting a
picture of this sad, lonely guy. They're self admittedly suffering, which.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Is like a rabbit hole that's hard to get out of.
The fact that he Tyler Robinson didn't appear in court,
why did he choose What do you think he chose
not to appear in person?

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Was that for safety reasons? I don't believe so. I
think that's common when it's not like an official, you know,
preliminary hearing. Because the first appearance he also appeared virtually
as well. I just think that's probably something that it's
easier to keep him there than rather than transported to
the courthouse. But he will be in person at the
next hearing October thirtieth. Yeah, I just I don't think

(29:15):
it's It might be a safety thing, but I know,
you know, here where I live, they appear virtually as well.
I think it's just logistically easier.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
And no more arrests have been made, So anybody else
in his circle in his world, like what happened to
the roommate, Like there's that's all sort of gone away.
I haven't heard anything. I haven't heard anything.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
I mean I've heard a lot on the internet about
people making stuff up.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, and that's why we can't report so many things. Right,
It's not like we don't care about the story. It's
just that we're just we don't want to repeat misinformation.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
And sometimes there's so much information it's it's all just noise,
right until you hear it from official sources and whatnot.
It's just kind of like hogwash. If I don't want
to say the wrong thing. I mean, these are important cases, right,
these are shaping you know, policy, and these are we
don't want to be you know, we don't want to
be wrong and say the wrong things. I don't know

(30:07):
how to say it.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, it's important.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
So we're trying to just kind of stick to the facts,
and you know, hopefully that's hopefully the facts are acceptable.
Are we going to get just in this day in time?

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Sessica Kathleen coming back on Thursday for some more meditation
and therapy. By the way, I really enjoyed that and
I've actually applied a few of those tips in my
daily life. And we're so excited to have Lauren Gellert
here as the head of original Programming at WeTV. Lauren
launched the hit series Love After lock Up, which basically

(30:40):
chronicles people who are falling in love after they've been incarcerated,
or at least one of them has been incarcerated. Also
the spin off Life After lock Up, and she served
as the series executive producer for multiple seasons, making the
show a number one hit on the network. So imagine
you're you're arrested or you're behind bars, and you're falling

(31:03):
in love.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
How dare you? Why would I be arrested.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Committing a terrible crime of small, big crimes? But we
see this all the time, and we've talked about it
so much. It's Courtney's favorite word is hybrista phililia, hybristophelia.
Did I say it correctly? You did? Hybristophelia perfect? And
that is what is that, Courtney. It's actually is a
designated mental thing that people have where you are obsessed

(31:30):
with people who are behind bars and you are compelled
to be in a relationship with someone. Yeah, which is interesting.
We see this with the Menendez brothers. You know, they
have not only one, but multiple relationships. One of their
wives even went to law school to be the advocates
all the Brian criers, super fans, which is bananas that
are crazy, Briebriyes, air quotes, how about Luigi Mangion. Its

(31:54):
a lot about us, I'm like, I mean, the list
goes on.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Bridgar Ramira's members had all those women in Charles Manson
with all the mean Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
So we did a deep dive on this at one
point and then I've thoughts, Lauren, we're going to welcome
you to the show, and you say hello, but I promise.
But the takeaway was it's a very interesting, a little confusing.
Sometimes people want to be with somebody behind bars, maybe
because it's safe or it's very dangerous.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
We want to give the notoriety too.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Maybe I don't know, so Lauren.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Welcome, Welcome, Lauren.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
I think there was a smoke machine or like a
I don't know. There's some strobe lights. They should be
here right now with you tell us everything.

Speaker 12 (32:33):
Thank you. I'll I'll take the virtual strobe light. So
you know what the show. The show came about in the.

Speaker 6 (32:40):
Early days Love after lock Up, it was really about
true relationships, I mean, people looking for connection, and we
found a lot of people who were most comfortable when
their relationship was with a real distance.

Speaker 12 (32:58):
And then we found that some of.

Speaker 6 (33:01):
The people in these relationships, it was kind of a
bit of a who was conning who, because you know,
the thing they maybe start where inmates reach out to
people on websites, and that's how we discovered the idea
for this show.

Speaker 12 (33:16):
It was through website data and inmates dot Com. I
believe it was called.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Oh wait, datinginmates dot Com was a website where if
you want this is obviously it's the name of it,
but if you wanted to dat an inmate, you would
go online and register.

Speaker 12 (33:30):
Yes, yes, and people would and inmates actually.

Speaker 6 (33:33):
In many that we spoke to, were looking for not
even necessarily relationships when they would start out, but they.

Speaker 12 (33:38):
Were looking for connection, human connection.

Speaker 6 (33:40):
There's ten piles some of these some of these relationships
started out as pen paling, right, and and there are
lots of people who kind of volunteer to write to
prisoners and talk to prisoners and you know, give them
some kind of human connection they're living behind bars. So
that is how it all kind of started. But then
when you dig into each of the relationships, all very different,

(34:01):
and some of them you find you know, who is
the con is it? You know, the person on the
inside who is lending letters and promising love and sending pictures,
and then their commentary starts filling up, and then they
you know, I'm in love. I'm in love, and the
first time on the outside is like excellent because I'm
planning this whole life for us. And then the show

(34:22):
was that release moment was the greatest ever, right, the
first of everything, the first time they come out and
see each other in person, tell of them had seen
each other in person, and you know.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Just physically they've never like touched before.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
But they would be waiting by the gate too.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
If you haven't seen this show, you must. I've got
to see you listen. This is the sounds creative. This
is the person. Also, Bridezilla's right here. I might have
a fun aside, but like, yeah, the person, the person
picking up the prisoner is waiting outside, and you know,
what is that connection going to be? Like It's like, yes,

(34:58):
you know them, but you're not physically you don't really
know them. Do in some cases I'm sure are they're
going to live with these people?

Speaker 12 (35:07):
Them?

Speaker 6 (35:08):
Yeah, I mean them really legitimately moved in with the
person who they had been connecting with and writing with
and some of those relationships with one person behind bars
were going for years before this happened.

Speaker 12 (35:19):
Stop and I promised you. And it was wild.

Speaker 6 (35:22):
And when they got out and some of the connections
were unbelievable, you actually got choked up.

Speaker 12 (35:27):
They're like, oh my god, they're together, they're having their
first kiss. No, and they've been talking for a year plus. Wow.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
And some of them not so much because think about it,
you're behind bars. Maybe you know you're going to get released.
Maybe you want to make sure you're working the system
that you have somewhere to land, right, and you're getting
all these letters.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
And money put it on to offer you support. Yeah,
it's keeping you maybe not bored even in jail, right,
Like you're kind of bored maybe, And oh, do any
of them have many pen pals? I'm gonna use pen pals.

Speaker 12 (36:02):
Yes, many of them have many pen pals.

Speaker 6 (36:06):
But we had one scenario I remember kind of early
on in maybe the second season, where the inmate had
been really in a relationship with this woman on the
outside and she had, you know, spent a lot of
money for him and put a lot of money on
his promissary and he paid for phone calls and payd

(36:26):
for all those different things, and she came down for
his release only to learn.

Speaker 9 (36:33):
He had a girlfriend and.

Speaker 12 (36:36):
A daughter with that girlfriend, and she had no idea
and this was like a whole.

Speaker 6 (36:44):
Lot dynamic going on, a crazy con going on, and
he kept he led her on, and she believed he
still wanted to be with him her and they're going
to break it off.

Speaker 12 (36:54):
And this went on multiple seasons.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Not to mention it's slightly dangerous, right, So you're confessing
your love and things feel very safe because obviously there
are bars between you. You're in jail or prison, whatever
the thing is. But now you're out and you have
to get resocialized into the world. And now you're you know,
jumping into a relationship. That's that's a whole other set

(37:18):
of circumstances.

Speaker 12 (37:20):
It is. It's challenging. A lot of people had trouble
with that.

Speaker 6 (37:22):
They were, you know, running into a relationship heads first.
I mean some of them even got married. Oh then yeah.
We had a spin off called Life After lock Up
because we wanted.

Speaker 12 (37:33):
To continue with the ones who kept going.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Oh this is around, I can go down.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Relationship children.

Speaker 12 (37:41):
There were children born on Love After Life After lock up.
How was what was the question? Sorry?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Like is it was their love after lock up?

Speaker 9 (37:49):
Right?

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Like? There were some success stories. I know I saw
several myself, So it's kind of inspiring that you know,
somebody maybe behind bars and have a life.

Speaker 7 (37:59):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (38:00):
On there were beautiful stories. There was stories of hope.
There were stories of second chances. There were stories of redemption.
There was ups and downs, you know, redemption, failure, redemption again.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
It is such an invigorating show. Like you said, the
ups and downs of life are all in there. I
did want to clean one thing up Stephanie earlier or
you asked about hybristophilia. I couldn't reach for the word paraphilia,
which is an atypical sexual interest. It's intense, it's persistent,
and it totally differs from quote normal.

Speaker 8 (38:36):
That's it.

Speaker 5 (38:36):
It's not called it's not called hypristophelia. I know what
it's characterized as in the in medical terms is a paraphilia,
So it is. It's hybristophilia, and that is sexual arousal.
It's attraction to a criminal or a fender. It can
be a fascination with a partner's bad boy image or

(38:59):
a design to save the offender.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
I just like it. When Courtney says the word hybristophelia,
I agree to say it one more time. It sounds
very smart. Go ahead, one more time, hybristophilia. Oh listen,
this is true crime tonight, Courtney. I'm here with Stephanie
Leideker Body Movement, and we are so so lucky to
have Lauren Geller with us, executive producer of Love After

(39:22):
lock Up. If you have any questions, give us a
call eighty eight three one Crime. We'd love to hear
from you. That's great. One of the things we had
interviewed somebody at Courtney. I think it was with you
that we were interviewing an expert in this category who
was really kind of breaking down what would attract somebody
to a prisoner or somebody who was serving time. Meaning

(39:43):
it's not like you were in a relationship prior to
the arrest. This is total strangers that are like randomly
writing letters to prisoners with the intent of finding true love.
And you're like, what is that about?

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Right, by the way, it is mostly women, ladies.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
This is us and they. It kind of fell into
two categories. It seemed like some of it was maybe
maybe a little bit of past trauma that was sort
of being worked through, or maybe Dad had also been incarcerated,
so maybe working through some of that. But past that,
we didn't really know too much, Courtney, Am I missing
anything on that?

Speaker 5 (40:19):
No, that's about it. It can present from many different
forms of whatever year past is, but a lot of
it is either savior you want to be the one
and Okay, Lauren, I want to hear because you're nodding
your head. Was there anything that comes to mind or
did you see was that a thread of some of
these folks who were like I just I want to

(40:40):
say them I want to make their life better?

Speaker 6 (40:43):
Yes, I actually remember a story I was trying to
think of where the version was from. They were definitely
across the country from one another, and the woman on
the outside had been working very, very hard to get
her boyfriend out of but it wasn't her. It was
her boyfriend by way of their letter writing, and now

(41:04):
he was her boyfriend, but this was not her boyfriend
that she had had a relationship with physically or had
ever lived in the same town as. But she felt,
you know, he deserved justice. She was working for him.
She was writing letters for him, she was using making
lawyers work for him, she was doing it all And

(41:26):
I do remember this relationship actually happening. I can't remember
which season it was, it was earlier.

Speaker 12 (41:32):
Days, but it was.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
It was really interesting and he wasn't, you know, necessarily
on trial or being proven innocent. But she kind of
maintained he shouldn't have been have been in there for
everything that he was accused of.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Interesting meaning she believed he was guilty and still wanted
to be with him. How interesting? And is that because
I wonder.

Speaker 12 (41:55):
Not guilty of all of the crimes.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I think it was understood, but some yeah, a little guilty,
but yeah I can change them. That's the bad boy
thing maybe right. But it's also kind of manipulative on
both ways. Like you could see how behind bars you
need to embrace somebody on the outside because yeah, you
want them to visit maybe and you want to have

(42:17):
human interaction, and I see where that can be kind
of maybe manipulative. But on the other side of that,
if you're the person who's basically filling up the commissary
and kind of pulling the strings. Also, you get to
go home at night and you're leaving this person behind
bars and you want to air quote save them. Is

(42:38):
that also a little manipulative in its own way? I
can kind of see it on both sides.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
I'm only interested in the messiness of all this. I
of course I love that people run, you know, often
to the sunset. But I want to hear about some
of the messy ones. And I mean, that's what I'm
here for. Do you remember any particular You don't have
to give any names, but you did.

Speaker 6 (42:57):
It get missy, of course, of course, And unfortunately some
of it got sad too, because it was messy. There
was messy where you know, may had been strong, the
the the verse on the outside had been strung along
for a long time. I remember a particular female inmate
who had strung along a guy on the outside for

(43:19):
a long time, and he was setting spending lots of money,
and yeah, she was really working in and she was
set up in her house and everything else. But in
the end, you know, she it took I think it
was too maybe two point five seasons before she broke
it off with him.

Speaker 12 (43:35):
So we had one a lot out of it.

Speaker 6 (43:38):
And and that was messy. It was messy.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
It was Gypsy Rose, Gypsy Rose. You know again that
wasn't necessarily that was an on this show. But you know,
Gypsy Rose kind of in a prolific way, got out
of prison, fell right in love and well that was
a big record scratch.

Speaker 9 (43:55):
And he.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Didn't where she was in prison, right.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
And then she got and again no judgment on Gypsy.
Then she got with the second guy who also found
her in prison. She was only in prison for seven
years and she had a lot of relationships.

Speaker 12 (44:09):
Peter's about fascinated and they.

Speaker 6 (44:11):
Dive deep into those, you know, and I will say this,
they just can't know each other in a very different
way I do with It's a lot of love letters,
a lot of like heartfelt deep communication because when you're
sitting in a prison cell and you start really connecting
with someone or thinking about you wait for that letter

(44:32):
and then you wore your heart out and write it back.
I mean, we heard a lot of incredible letters that's
really were connection.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
And it's undivided attention, Like you don't have to worry
about your guy being out and about and he's at
the club and he's at the job, and he's doing
this and he's doing that. No, he is in one
place and you know, exactly where to find him again.
That's crazy, as I say it out loud. But Lauren,
quickly before we go. First of all, I'm so happy
you've been here and we're going to have you back
all the time. Let's talk about Taste and Talk has

(45:00):
been creating this, this swell of you know, conversations that
are happening over a glass of wine in major cities.
So at the core of it, Lauren Keller, no surprise, Oh.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
What are we doing at Case and Talk? So I
started a women's purpose base salon. It's given a get.
The women who come pay money to come, not a
lot of money, about forty dollars, and they are given
a wine tasting, a speaker about whatever's going on in
the hot topics of midlife women these days. You've got
health to managing wealth, entrepreneurship and sex and relationships.

Speaker 12 (45:34):
And then they are giving back.

Speaker 6 (45:37):
All the money goes to charity, local charites and communities.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Let's post it on our website too, so info, Lauren Geller,
thank you, love you much more of this to come.
Welcome back and again in a second hour, thank you
for being with us, keep with us. This is true
crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time. Welcome

(46:07):
back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney
Armstrong and Body. Move in and listen. If you've missed
any part of the show, you can always catch us
later this evening as a podcast.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
How fun was Lauren Gallart having her here? I want
to hear.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
More and more and more. She's done a lot of
true crime shows, so just in general, you know, we're
we're hoping you come back, Lauren, So thanks for being
with us, and listen. We have more coming up too.
We're gonna all get ourselves safe. We're going to figure
out you know, embodies the expert at this and honestly,
so she's bringing in the big dogs. We're gonna have

(46:47):
some real life tips about how to keep ourselves safe
on the internet and in our apps and you know,
just the basics, even in our phone.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Started the basics, don't you please?

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yes, I need the basics for sure, So I'll just
raise my hand to assume people know so much.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
So I'm so glad that she's joining us, you know
what I mean, I'm so excited for her.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I really am. I said to body last night, Hey,
how do I remove this from that? And what button
do I push in my phone on my Insta or
my Da da da, And she was.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Like, it's so easy. You just have to like look
it up. It's two seconds.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
By the way, it would never have happened if there
were a million dollars on the line, if I was
like on a show where they would have given me
a huge cash prize. I just sort that out. But wait,
and I put on his time into it too. It
wasn't even that. I just stopped trying instantly. So some
of the basics. I was like, I think you think
I'm way smarter than I am. I don't know anything

(47:42):
when it comes to this. Now, I just don't post
because I'm like, I'm too scared. Put my phone in
a box and in a closet and turn it off
and nobody will ever find us. So I know that's
not the answer. But there's something in between, and we're
going to get to the bottom of it. And then
Epstein again, this story continues. Oh that scene we're gonna
unpack because so now there have been some new names

(48:04):
being associated with the sex trafficker and like listen. Does
that did they release the thing or does that mean nothing?
There's no list now, no list, no list, And it
really does speak to are you if you're associated to it,
if you just knew him? Is that the same? I
don't know, But we're going to unpack that. But first
we're going to go to O talkback.

Speaker 10 (48:25):
Since there's no credible information leaking Jeffrey Epstein to sex trafficking,
then why would so many people come forward and accuse him?

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (48:35):
Yeah, I got another one for you guys, if you
want it.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Oh yeah, get it up.

Speaker 13 (48:39):
This is my opinion on Epstein. I would really love
to know more about the island. I would love to
get or listen to an interview from a celebrity that's
visited the island about what they did there, the people
they saw, the things that were happening.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
By the way, I love that talk back, and I
love the kids. Is that kids in the background? Of course? Yeah?
Are you like she's like calling from the pantry. It's
a fair question.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Yeah, Like okay, First of all, right, the first talk back.
If there's if there's no list, there's no trafficking, why
did he get what happened there?

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Right?

Speaker 3 (49:21):
We totally agree. Second, talkback celebrity, like to hear from
somebody that went to the island. Yeah, but who's going
to do that? Who's going to come forward and be
like I was there?

Speaker 11 (49:30):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (49:31):
I can't imagine anybody is going to put the reputation
on the line, even if they were like, hey, listen,
I was invited, I went on vacation. I said at
the beach, I had some martinis. That's it. Who's going
to believe that person?

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Right?

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Like, I don't think anybody's ever going to come forward.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
You get death by association, right, had So Bryant, the
director of the documentary Filthy Rich, and we did you
know s We were just talking about this in the
break and you know she described the island because she
attempted to go there, and we've heard, you know, some
of the workers from the island give their account. Yeah, exactly.
And look, it was a fantasy island. It was this

(50:08):
beautiful place in the you know what is it Virgin
Islands and it's still US territory.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
But he owned this island, didn't Lisa like get on
a boat and like approach the island and like there
are people with machine guns and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so and think about it. You had
to take a helicopter to get there. So if you're
one of the many, many victims who has come forward,
you know, let's call it forty in total, that are
really scrapped, you know, shouting from the rooftops to say,
please listen, please listen. You know, the playbook seems to
be that they would get a passport, get told that

(50:43):
they're going to go to this luxury island on this
little said VAK with powerful and influential people. Okay, that tracks.
Now you get on this helicopter, you're a young girl,
and you're flown there by some accounts by Giley Maxwell herself,
apparently she was a a helicopterilet. Wow. And then you
get to this island or passports are removed, but yet

(51:05):
it's paradise, right, so the lap of luxury and chefs.
Have you guys ever seen the movie Blink twice? I
know I've said this now tis yea. Yeah, it's a
Zoe Kravitz movie. She has never come out and said
this is what it's based on, but clearly there's some crossover,
and she has said in interviews Zoe Kravitz directed it.

(51:26):
She's that beautiful actress that we've seen in so many
great things, Big Little Lies being one of them. Top
of head. Anyway, it's it's about an island, and she
has said an interview that it's sort of a mixmash
of stories that she's heard in the mix in her
exciting Hollywood life and it's worth seeing. So that's one

(51:49):
island tail. It has to probably have a little nods
to this story as well. But essentially, you get to
this island and then you can't leave right until you're
given permission to leave, and allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, there are
cameras everywhere, So it's two part. Either it's just this
lovely island owned by a financier who has a billion

(52:10):
dollars for reasons, how does he even have this island?
Who paid for the island? How does he have all
this money? How does he have all this money? The
island itself, it said, it reportedly is about little under
eight million dollars, and you know the people that were coming,
I thought that was low also considering his net worth.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yeah, I mean, looking at it right now, pull it up,
roll no, I believe you.

Speaker 7 (52:32):
I just know, yeah, same, that's not as you can buy.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
An island for eight million, okay.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Rights dollar, Like, I'm so grateful that you come to
work every day. So listen. Jeffrey Epsteen acquired his private island,
Little Saint James and the US Virgin Islands in nineteen
ninety eight for about eight million dollars. While he claimed
to be a billionaire and a successful financier, the true

(52:58):
sources of his wealth have remained murky and controversial. And listen,
that is accurate. So ultimately, he was, you know, dealing
with clients that had or he had about a billion
dollars in net worth, and there really have been very
few public clients. So of course, the implication here is
that there's honey potting involved in that world leaders and

(53:20):
influential people are being lured there and you know, put
on videotape in there for blackmails for yes, or compromised
in the in this in the spy movie in our heads.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
So that's what I believe more than what a well,
there's a little update.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Oh no, actually it's not a little update. I'm going
to take that back. It's a big little update. Your
voice sounds so good, Courtney you're curious, I have been
hugging smooth licorice tea. Oh I do it for you,
throat coat. So, newly released congressional records from Jeffrey Epstein
in the State they've come out, and they reveal he

(54:00):
maintained ties with several hot, high profile figures including Elon Musk,
Bill Gates, Steve Bannon, Peter Thiel. And this bore out
even after his two thousand and seven sex offender plea deal.
So that's intensifying some scrutiny of what their connections were

(54:20):
amid the ongoing investigations. It's very important to note the
records show they maintained ties. There is no specific allegation
beyond that, so I just want to clarify. But those
are the names.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
So it's just saying that they knew each other.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Is that that they continued contact after he was a
known and convicted sex offender, which it brings a question
or two up? Sure? I mean, so is that the line?
So we all know how I feel about this story,
and I'm like crazy for victims and all things, and
I think there's some I think there's something there. Yeah,

(54:58):
I fear there's something I should say. Yeah, However, let's
just play that out for a second. If you know
somebody who's then convicted of a crime that has nothing
to do with you, even if it is a sexual
assault of sorts, do you cut ties all together? I'd
like to say, of course yes, But is that enough
of a death by association? Meaning these names being listed,

(55:21):
I mean, the names they are listening to, the names
are being listed. These people are mega rich. These people
are mega rich. So they're I mean, if you're if
you have that much money, you're motivated by money mostly,
you know what I mean, Like, they're mega rich. So
is there is there some sort of blackmail kind of

(55:42):
going on or set up going on or or you know,
or maybe even something secret and it doesn't have to
be something nefarious or you know, something that they were,
you know, involved involved in this trafficking at all, just
you know, maybe there's corporate secrets you know that they.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Don't want to out.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
Yeah, it's all a question mark right now of what
the specific ties are between those people. Listen, we're talking
about Jeffrey Ebstein and what has just come out with
newly released congressional records. We'd love to hear from you
eighty eight three to one crime. So this all came
out and it was just six pages of Ebstein estate records.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
However, the overside panel received over eighty five hundred documents
from Epstein's estate. This includes flight logs, phone messages, and
financial ledgers spanning nineteen ninety to twenty nineteen. So Stephanie,
to your earlier question of where's all this money coming from?
I think the financial ledgers. Yeah, where is the money

(56:47):
coming from? I mean that's always the answer at the
end of the day, is what is the trail If
we're talking about sex trafficking, that is the largest financial
business in the world, is it really Yeah, the money
that goes in and out internationally speaking for sex traffic
is staggering, and it's a real high profile scenario. You know,

(57:07):
we're talking about online you know, hacking and making sure
you keep yourself safe. Sex traffickers at a very high,
prestigious level. That is what they do. They scan the
internet all day, all night looking for young girls that
are wayward, are missing dad because her father just passed away, yeah,
or they're on you know Instagram saying oh I wish

(57:28):
my mom and dad weren't splitting up, you know, you know,
sad face that is they are. It is like high
high level internet interface. We know Jeffrey Epstein has, you know,
was allegedly with Gelane Maxwell going to high schools and
basically targeting places where young girls you know, would be

(57:48):
found and lured for a couple hundred bucks, right to
get a massage or to go to a fancy island.
You know, think about it if you don't really know
what you're getting into. When your brain is working in
that way, you meet this woman named Gelaine Maxwell who
seems glamorous and smart and she's pilot, and she's like, yeah,
come to this you know, wonderful vacation and lay by

(58:10):
the pool all day. That might sound like an inviting
invitation to a young person who doesn't have somebody at
home expecting them back at six o'clock at night. Right,
So they're almost targeting young girls who maybe don't have
enough oversight at that time, or are you know, out
on a limb and aren't necessarily checking in with mom

(58:31):
and dad the whole time, Which is why it's important
that we talk about it, because you don't know how
to escape those you know, pitfalls if you don't really
know that's out there, because you know, the Gullible are
the first to go.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Dary.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
One more interesting thing that came out is Natalie Dormer,
who we know from the Tutor's Game of Thrones Hunger Games,
So yeah, she's an actress and she is now refusing
to promote The Lady, which is a project that she
worked on base and it has to do with Sarah Ferguson.

(59:08):
So The Ladies an upcoming ITV and britt Box drama
and Natalie Dormer portrays Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York, and
the series goes over Ferguson's life and has the controversial
period surrounding some leaked emails showing her communication with Jeffrey Ebstein,
which last week wow right, No, she sounded like she

(59:32):
was working both sides on the one and she was
like he's a bad guy. And then to the bad guy,
she was like, yeah, sorry, I had to say that,
but I was just making face and please don't sue me,
and I promise it's going to be fine. But again,
like was he back in her into a corner? Yeah?
And Natalie Dormer she donated her entire salary from the

(59:54):
project to the National National Association for People Abused in
Childhood and the Center of Expertise on Child Sexual Abuse. Yeah,
her entire SOLIDI.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Is her money where her mouth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
And this is part of a statement that she released.
She said, when I agreed to take the role in
the Lady playing of course Sarah Ferguson, I knew portraying
her would require nuance.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
People are layered.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
Since completing the project, new information has come to light
that makes it impossible for me to reconcile my values
with Sarah Ferguson's behavior, which I believe is inexcusable. For
that reason, I will not be taking part in the
promotion of the project.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Wow, and learn about this unbelievable that's very rare too
for somebody to really put their money where their mouth
is and hats off, you know. And again, Yeah, I
mean this is I've said this so many times, but
I think this is the largest story of our time,
and it's really not on the news anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Right, It's because all this other crazy news keeps happening.
It's almost like look over here. I mean we've been saying,
you know, on the internet. I've been look over here.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Look over here.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
I really feel sometimes like some of this is just
like way too much. And look at those names.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Look at those names, even if it's just by association,
Like that is the most powerful grouping of names I
know in the world, right, the biggest thinkers. So is
it death by association that they knew a sex trafficker.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
Or or yeah? Well, coming up, we're going to be
joined by Katie Greer. She's an Internet safety expert who
has some helpful tips you won't want to miss. Keep
it right here a True Crime Tonight. We're talking true
crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney
and Body and listen, it is getting later in the night.
And one of the things that we've been talking a
lot about has been safety, our personal safety and also
for our family and friends on the internet generally speaking. Obviously,

(01:02:15):
Body is the expert in all of this, and she's
really opened our eyes to some of these key things
that we should all be aware of, whether big picture
and even in small, small little ways. And it can
sometimes seem a little overwhelming. And now that we know
for a fact, that the genie is out of the
bottle and we do, in fact need to protect ourselves,

(01:02:36):
not just as women, not just as whether you're a
mother or a father, but just as a community. Like
there are some there's some big ticket items that are
just in our phones, that are settings that we don't
even know how to tone turn off, Like if the
phone comes that way, right, you have to go actively
out of your way to undo it. So we have
brought in the big dogs. Katie Greer is here and

(01:02:56):
she's the leading Internet safety expert and CEO of k
el Greer Consulting and Listen. For nearly two decades, Katie
has helped schools and families and companies and communities navigate
through all of these risks listen, privacy. Those days are over,
and I think now we have to take the reins back.
So Katie, welcome to the show. We're so happy to

(01:03:19):
have you here. Where do we begin?

Speaker 9 (01:03:24):
I can don't I don't even know. I just all
day every day, and I don't even know where we
should begin.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
I know, well, why don't we begin? Why don't we
begin with? What is your quick origin story? What pulled
you into this work? Nearly twenty years ago.

Speaker 9 (01:03:37):
Yeah, I wish I had kind of just find I
guess kind of a good story. I started off my
career at the Attorney General's Office in Boston and they
had an Internet crimes unit there and I was twenty
one twenty two at the time, and I was like,
what do you guys do there? I didn't know there
were crimes online, this being you know, twenty years ago,

(01:03:58):
and it was kind of a right place, right time
moment where they thought, you know, we could pick your
brain probably and you could learn a little bit from us.
So wow, that's how I got started and all that,
and yeah, it was it was interesting, and I thought
prevention was really important, right, not just dealing with the
stuff after the fact, but how do we get ahead
of these things so we can protect ourselves?

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
So what kind of what does what does Ko Greer
Consulting serve today? Like, what do you typically do?

Speaker 9 (01:04:26):
Sure, I'm in schools a ton, working with K through
twelve college students. I work with students a lot, I
work with parents a lot, government, private, a lot of
corporate conversations as well, So kind of runs the gamut
through the US and worldwide. Really just prevention conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Especially to the children, right, like keeping them safe in things.
And you know, kids are just they're so I mean
honestly clearly, they're so innocent they don't really think of
all the dangers they could be in, right, So shouts
off to you for doing that. What is the number
one mistake that you see people make online? Right now?

Speaker 9 (01:05:07):
That is such a loaded question.

Speaker 12 (01:05:09):
I'm I'm sorry.

Speaker 9 (01:05:12):
I think something that is alarming to me is how
quick we are to just jump on things in general,
whether it's a link, whether it's a quick emergency or
bank account it's just emptied, or a dating app or
a social media like. I just think the quickness of

(01:05:33):
it all is you know, I talk often about this
double edged sort of technology, and yes, it's amazing that
this stuff is so quick and we can get information
so fast that it can also be really dangerous, right
because it takes away that human component that we have
to actually think things through. So I think we're starting
to get in trouble or continuing to get in trouble

(01:05:54):
when we're doing things really quickly, right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
And you're right, because we live in such a like
instant gratification world, right, yes, we really do. Like, if
I want a fast food I can just press a
couple buttons on my phone and it gets delivered, you
know it is? Yeah, Yeah, Like if I get a
text message from a good friend, she's like, look at this,
I'm going to click on it because it's instant serotonin, right,
And you say.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
The clicking on so meaning if we're on a website
or if we're getting a text. I've been getting this
a lot lately, like a Rando texts from Nowhere's land,
Hey how are you? And it's a bait. Don't answer it, right,
I've been taught this, but you know, not clicking on
links that are being emailed or texted to you. Is
that accurate if you don't know the sender.

Speaker 9 (01:06:38):
Absolutely sure. And like I said, you know this this
is falls into so many different ways that we could
look at this, right. You know, we're again we're so
quick to react and we're so quick to panic. Also,
your bank account has been emptied or I have to
send you something right away, like make sure you click
on this link or whatever it may be. That we're

(01:06:59):
kind of a nee jerk reaction just to click away
without looking first. And that's something that's getting a lot
of us into trouble in many different aspects of our lives.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Like I got one too that oh you have an
unpaid toll like parking tickets? Right, so I was like
unpaid target. You know that sounds so scary? Eight hundred
dollars what I barely drive? And then and then and then,
and like sometimes you get so panicked that you don't
want to Oh my goodness, it's yeah, the do date
is now, I have to pay immediately, and hey, guess
what I've just been scammed, right, that's I guess the

(01:07:30):
real book right now?

Speaker 9 (01:07:32):
Scary exactly. And with AI, I mean I don't want
to addohole. We could talk for ten more hours about
this thing. Ai. These scams are getting more and more sophisticated, right,
so it's harder for us, even people in cybersecurity to
know when these are real or problematic, because they're getting
better and better.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
So, Katie, I have a question for you. And if
anyone out there would like to ask a question to
Katie Greer, who knows everything about in safety, give us
a call eighty eight three one crime.

Speaker 5 (01:08:03):
She is a wealth of knowledge. When you mentioned talking
to spending a lot of time with kids, what's sure
do they think that there are dangers online? Or do
they think I'm impervious to them?

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Is there a general feeling there is?

Speaker 9 (01:08:21):
And you know, I don't blame it on any generational issue.
I blame it on the fact that kids' brains aren't
fully developed until are twenty five or twenty six. So
no wonder, I mean if we no wonder they're making
mistakes or are they're impervious to it because their brains
truly biologically scientifically aren't developed enough to think of these

(01:08:44):
complex things. Look, we're grown adults with arguably fully developed
frontal lobes, and we still make mistakes much less kids.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Right, that's I mean, my hand is raised, I mean
one hundred percent. And is that there's something in our phones?
Like for I've been scared straight because of what we
do for a living, like no posting anymore, Like I'm
not into it, and I don't know there's this metadata
not into that either. I don't know. I don't like
any of it. And now I'm reading reports that there

(01:09:13):
are like Life three sixty, the app where you can
know where everybody is, that that data is being you know, sold.
How is there something in our phone that's like a
very basic make sure this is turned off under my settings.
Like I have my phone in my hand right now,
if I go into.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
My settings, yeah, like if I guess, I guess. We
can boil it down to this if listeners only do
two things like right now, like we're kind of an
actionable show, right, if there's two things our listeners could
do in us, Like, let's be frank, what would it be?

Speaker 9 (01:09:46):
Sure? Okay, I have two thoughts. One is in your
settings you can disable app tracking, and that is under
privacy and security. Of course, it's different for different phone
sure sure and Apple devices privacy insecurity and Android devices
it's in privacy on Apple devices under tracking. You want

(01:10:07):
to toggle allow apps to across the track. You want
to tuggle that off.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
All my toggles are on, so it's all my toggles
are green.

Speaker 9 (01:10:18):
Oh no, So here's the problem, right, because all of
our devices and most apps, by the way, come with
this stuff enabled and you have to disable it, which
is so annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Yeah, it's so lame it right?

Speaker 9 (01:10:31):
Can't we disable and then choose to enable us we
want to. Don't get me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
We're not even opting in anymore, just by virtue of
purchasing this phone or even televisions or the pods that
are listening to us successively. Whatever. That is what people
don't realize, and myself included, is that you have to
undo things when you get hooked up.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Yeah, and so now what's going to happen Steph is
you're going to get maybe your weather widget, right, your
weather is going to be like, I don't even know
where you are anymore because you opted out of me
tracking you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
I just I just goggled.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
I just did that, right, So you know, when you
get those those pop ups, that's like you need to
get permission to this app to track your location. Now
you're basically undoing what you just did.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Oh goodness.

Speaker 9 (01:11:17):
By the way, we're so quick to just be like okay, okay, okay, sure,
And that's another one of those rapid fire things that
you don't really think about. But I definitely urge you know,
listeners to take the time when you download these apps
to when it says do you want us to track
your location? Can it have access to your contact? The
answer is absolutely not unless that app needs a GPS

(01:11:38):
to function. So, for instance, I have my location services
on for two for two things, right, uh ways, which
I use to literally get directions places, so I have
to have that turned on for the function. But like
you said, I don't need, you know, Amazon to have
my location on I because I can put my address

(01:11:59):
in there. I don't need, uh, you know, all these
other apps to have my location on in order for
them to function.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
You don't need another great one.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Yeah, Instagram, Chat, TikTok, Facebook, you know, all the social
media sites.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Get rid of them.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
You guys, don't. When you're uploading a photo. It doesn't
need to know where you're at exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
And do I need to say yes to the cookies
every time I go to order something online? What is
that about? This is like a Sophie story that we
have every single time, but that I can't get to
the website to order the jeens.

Speaker 9 (01:12:30):
But take a little bit longer, you can. It just
might take a little bit longer. It just won't remember
what you put in there. So it is a little
bit more work, but it's totally worth it, because you know,
we're a generation of people that didn't ever think of privacy.
We thought about, we thought about we didn't really think
quite frankly, because this was all thrown in our laps,
but we thought about availability and accessibility over privacy, and

(01:12:54):
we really got to flip that switch.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Wait, I just have to like reiterate this underscore because
it happened to me all the time. And I know
I sound ridiculous, but the cookies, So I always say
I say no, and then it's like it takes me.
I can't get I can't get on the site, right,
So you say no and then it's like limited cookies.
So I just keep saying no until to what end
is it eventually move on?

Speaker 9 (01:13:17):
It should be a browser thing. Yeah, I don't know.
I'm trying to think if I've ever been prevented from
doing something because of disabling cookies. Cookies just basically means
it will kind of enhance privacy by reducing personalized ads
and tracking. So next time that you go to the site,
it won't remember that you're a size whatever gene or

(01:13:39):
that you happen to like the flare bottoms as the
post of the straight legs.

Speaker 12 (01:13:43):
So okay, maybe it's a little.

Speaker 9 (01:13:45):
Bit less customized, but it protects our data way more.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
And you should or should not keep your credit cards. Again,
I do this all the time, right, so do you
keep your credit cards saved online so you could buy
the Flare jeans not the Flare of the straight leg
without my cookie? And then it goes like automatic payment.
Is it bad to keep that online? Or it's fine?

Speaker 9 (01:14:06):
So I don't. But but again, we are so accustomed
to this accessibility into how quick it is to just
punch okay or purchase because our credit card is already
already in there. But the more, if you think about it,
the more places our credit cards are, the more access

(01:14:26):
these companies have to our data, and the higher chance
of us getting hacked. Quite frankly, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Ain't that the truth? And then you start getting these
random robo calls of people trying to hit you up
for stuff and you're like unknown number. You know, so
that all tracks?

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
And speaking of it's twenty twenty five, right, what are
some of the new ways these apps are leaking our data?

Speaker 9 (01:14:46):
Yeah, so one of the things we just covered actually
is a really interesting part of this, and that when
we shut that off, when we shut off the ad
tracking and I'm sorry, the app tracking, that is a
really good way to prevent from getting our information. But again,
they really get us a lot with the careless permissions right, right.

(01:15:08):
So for instance, you download a flashlight app and it's like,
can this flashlight app have access to your context and
your microphone? And yep, yep, yep, yep, and here we
are a flashlight does not need access to that. But
that's a really great way that they grab our data
because we're so quick to just hit okay so we

(01:15:28):
can use it quickly, right, and then.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
You're hitting agreed to the terms of service. That's exactly
we're going to be selling your data, right And that's
I mean, listen, I'm guilty of that too. And you
know I'm body moving and I'm guilty of that. You know,
you really have to read these terms of service agreements
because it's going to tell you right then and there,
your data is going to be for sale.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
And then we say to ourselves and that's okay, I
have nothing to hide, and then we like convince ourselves
in the spirit of time and you know, quickness that
it's fine. And then here you are. You get your
bank account right now, you have no money.

Speaker 9 (01:16:03):
And we're all going to die and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
You're going to have to come every week because I
feel like, yeah, I could tell you we're going to be.

Speaker 9 (01:16:17):
Like, we're all going to be okay, right that that
I come on over, I always have food.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
We're also to be okay.

Speaker 9 (01:16:23):
I think that I think we're like we are panicked
and it's very overwhelming. Like I spend most of my
time calming down parents, right because it's look, we didn't
grow up with this stuff, right, so we are learning
as we go along. Here we're trying not to screw
up for ourselves. And then we're also in charge of
other generations, older generations, younger generations, trying to keep them

(01:16:47):
safe as well with something where we're just kind of
winging as we go, right. So I think that we
all need to like collectively take a deep breath and
just do the best we can. There are going to
be all of the things that have them behind the
scenes that even cybersecurity experts don't know or don't understand.
So I think if we can do the best that

(01:17:08):
we can. And by the way, it goes back to
simple things, having good passwords, you know, not.

Speaker 5 (01:17:15):
Letting Katie not panicking is the best advice include and
everything else I'm doing right now. Thank you so so
so much for joining us. I'm really hope you are back.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Katie Greer is a leading Internet safety expert. She is
CEO of K L. Greer Consulting. And stick around because
we are going to be hearing from you true crime tonight.

(01:17:48):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. Where has this night gone?
If you have missed any of the show, please catch
us later as a podcast on your iHeartRadio app. While
you have that app out, make sure you leave us
a talk back anytime of day. You could also leave
us like an old school voice message on the hotline

(01:18:11):
eight eight eight three one crime. Leave us a message
and we'll play it on the show. So safety tips galore.
She was great, I mean Katie Greer.

Speaker 5 (01:18:22):
And by the way, if anyone wants to connect with
her for your school, for your personal information, because she
is awesome. You know, she is an internet absolute leading
safety expert. She's the CEO of KL Greer Consulting, and
she is on Instagram, TikTok and x as Katie L.

(01:18:46):
Greer so and she is also kl Greer Consulting on Facebook.
So again, if you want to search her out, because man,
she seems I.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
Mean, you have to have any on right, Like, if
you have a company that you know, maybe you're smaller
and you've got you don't even have nineties maybe even right,
she can come in and like give your your staff
basically the rundown on how to stay safe. Because listen,
this is this is a billion dollar industry to get
this this stuff. Like you know here in Las Vegas,
the MGM, because you know, they shut down remember when

(01:19:16):
they got packed, like the three fifteen year old kid.
Fifteen year old kid shut this billion dollar company down. Like, yeah,
so this kind of consulting is probably pretty pretty good
to get into.

Speaker 5 (01:19:29):
I wonder where that fifteen years he's in he's in court.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Oh okay, whah. I was like, I hope the MGM
hired him to run their high stakes internet Internet control.
But that's really helpful basic stuff. And yeah, we should
kind of continue this conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
We should have like a tip every week or something,
you know, like of things to keep yourself safe because listen,
most of our I think our primary audience are probably women, right,
and it's we have to be safe, right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Do I have to look out for each other and
keep each other safe. Also, my mom just sent me
a tip. She's licibitch, and like it's really good advice
to make sure that your family and your family can
be anything, whether it's your roommate or whomever you live
with or your immediate circle, that you have a code
word amongst you. So that way, if ever you're in

(01:20:21):
a situation and someone's telling you, oh, call so and so,
call body, call Courtney and have them send you money,
and like you're in a high stake situation, you have
to say, Courtney, your body, give me our code word.
And then only if you say that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Growing up with my mom, she said, if I ever,
if I ever send somebody to pick you up from school,
they're going to tell you super califragulistic, expi elidocious. Yeah,
so on, I swear to god you guys. I was
walking home from school. I grew up in Detroit, walking
home from school, I was, you know, a little and
that's what we did. We walked home because you know,

(01:20:59):
parents didn't piggy back then. And somebody pulled up beside
me in a brown car. I will never forget this
in my life. I had a Michael Jackson shirt on.
I finally had I finally found a shirt with my
name on it. Deanna. It's a very uncommon name, so
I wore like every day. I was like, anyway, he
said Deanna because I had my name, and so I

(01:21:20):
was like, yeah. He goes, your mom sent me and
I said, what's the and he goes what. I said,
what's the code word? I'm not even kidding, and he
goes what and he sped off, Wow, I swear. So
I told my mom obviously, why you are who you are.
She goes, I am never going to get you a
shirt with your name on it ever again, Like she

(01:21:40):
freaked out. But the code word worked because I'm telling
you right now, if we didn't have that code word,
I would have been in that brown car and I
would have been taken off by.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
Yeah. By the way, one time when I was in
high school, me and Christina Elford, we were driving back
from a concert. We had like some sort of a
car issue, not our car, one of our parents' cars,
and we had to pull over on the highway on
the four ninety five expressway. And you know, if they stay, like,
stay in the car because if you get out on
the it's more dangerous, et cetera. So this undercover cop,

(01:22:15):
you know, fortunately sees us and starts. He goes to
the hangar and like backs up to make sure that
we're okay, and I'm getting out of the car, she's
getting out of the car. I feel like there were
three of us, and and the guy that this undercover
police officer comes out and he's like, you guys, it's
really dangerous. Make sure you stay in the car. I'll go,
you know, summon for some help, and one of you

(01:22:37):
should come with me and we'll go. And I was like,
all right, well I'll come, and you know, guys, you
stay here with the car because you know our parents
are gonna kill us. So I'll go. And then as
I'm going in, my friend got a bad feeling and
this guy spooted off. Then the cops actually came and
sure enough that was not a real cop.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
No, wow, how do survive? Fairly?

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Fairly? By the way, to this day.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
I will walk into like gift shops or whatever, like
kind of like souvenir shops, and I'll see like the
key chain rack full of people's names, and I'm like,
oh to this. I mean, I was probably in maybe
first grade.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
That's a really good take and it has.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
Stuck with me that long. That I would always cry,
like my friends always had these really cute breads with
these bribds and it had their name and had their
names in them and their bracelets with their names, and
I could never find one. Well, thank god my mom
made me a weird name because otherwise anyway, Yeah, I
always think that I can say, but that's an.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Interesting Yeah, there was never a Taha key chain at
the airport. Aha, We'll make you a key chee. But like,
if you think about it, it's really personalized gifts. Right.
You have a little backpack on little back you know,
back to.

Speaker 3 (01:23:53):
School, so dangerous do you think about it? Right? Because look,
if you're a little Christopher, hey Chris, you know what
I mean? And it says Chris and puffy letters on
his backpack, you know it's Predator Paradise.

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
Well, and they also you know how people will put
sort of stick figures on the on their car, the icons,
and it can be a stick figure of you know, mom,
dad and three kids and two dogs. But sometimes people
put the names of everybody, so then it can be like, hey, Ben,
your sister Laura lost your dog Lola.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
I need your help to look for it. And then
by the way, and that's also we say this, We've
said this before, but we kind of learned this a
little bit in the Idaho Massacre podcasts with sort of
the takeaway is really making sure that there aren't any
identifying house images on your Instagram or your TikTok's or
your Facebook posts. You know, think about it. Your windows,

(01:24:53):
you know, entrances and exits to your house.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55):
You know, we take a photograph on Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
Morning and you're like, yay, so happy, and she I
love seeing those photos of my friends and loved ones.
But imagine you're a total creep and you're looking at
these photographs and you're noticing, oh, that's where the window
is here, and oh that's the one little room, and
it gives you kind of a blueprint to the house
potentially without you even realizing it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
Also, license plates and photos. Be careful of that, yeah,
be very careful and that and that's really Internet safety too, right, Like,
you don't think about taking a photo of yourself posing
maybe in the mirror, you know is going to be
dangerous for you, But guess what that mirror is reflecting
your living room?

Speaker 8 (01:25:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
Right, and then it's it's just a cute picture. And
then you post it to TikTok and or whatever Instagram,
and now potential intruders know, okay, I need to step
down twice to you know, from the doorway, and then
turn left and step up two more times because listen,
it might be dark, you know, like it gives it
just gives people just a leg up, a leg up, right, right.

(01:26:00):
We don't really think about that that is being Internet safety,
but it truly is, right. I mean, if you're posting
it to the Internet, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
O for the world.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
You need to be careful.

Speaker 7 (01:26:09):
Yeah. I had one friend, like, I guess he posted
something and you could zoom in and see the I guess,
a piece of mail with the address on it. So yeah,
I didn't even think about little things like while people
are looking at detail closely, so.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
They're scanning it and by the way, with it somebody
who is you know, has extra time in their hands
and is looking to do nefarious things. They are not
only honing in, they're studying it. Yeah, and like imagine that, right,
So every time you post something, imagine you're inviting the
world to come into your home. That's kind of the filter.

Speaker 8 (01:26:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
My brain collapsed on this. I used to be a
big poster. And now I'm like crickets, ye say, well,
you've always you're never really you've had like two posts.
That's true.

Speaker 12 (01:26:51):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:26:52):
I'm very I'm not on x I'm not on Instagram,
I'm not on TikTok, I'm you know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
I just say.

Speaker 7 (01:27:00):
I still post a little bit, but like I have
pulled back. I have another set of friends that they
would travel on vacation and post everything. They came back
their house was robbed.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
So well it's a big one.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Yeah, never post while you're away. Now, by the way,
as somebody who loves to see people's you know, holidays
and vacations, I get a kick out of that stuff.
So and I love seeing yours taha to look I do.
It's like, you know, vicariously, I'm living through all these
life moments and I get to be someplace that I'm not.
That's kind of really a joy for me. So it's
a shame that we have to be so critically and

(01:27:33):
like we can't share our lives so so easily. But
here we are.

Speaker 5 (01:27:38):
But even in the vacation front and body correct me
if I'm wrong. What I what I would say is
post it when you're back.

Speaker 7 (01:27:46):
Yeah, absolutely, that's what I start doing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
Yeah, that's what I meant. That's right, that's right. Yeah,
so just just wait, enjoy the NFL towel or the
red Rocks or the Effel Tower towel.

Speaker 7 (01:27:58):
The towel, the Eiffel towel. But yeah, yeah, do it
all on the return flight. Even then by the time
you land, it's all safe and sound and you're fine.
So yeah, good safety tips. Next time she's back, I
want to ask her about some dating tips too, because
that's in my world too, the.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Dating apps, right, yeah, it's a major, major and then
people can see where you are.

Speaker 7 (01:28:18):
Like I've always been horrified ever since I saw the
Dahmer movie on Netflix. I guess there was something he
would do once the door closes behind you. He had
removed door knobs or something, so there was no way.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
To get out.

Speaker 7 (01:28:31):
I'm like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
Oh my god. No, I don't even say it, but
that is obviously never go to anybody's home first date,
maybe even that second date.

Speaker 3 (01:28:39):
Yeah I wouldn't, Yeah, I would. I would definitely not
do I have done.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
In the stranger Danger I know same. I just like,
now that we are where we are, you know, it's
just you know, Oh my goodness, put the genie back.
Should we go another talk back? Let's do it.

Speaker 14 (01:28:56):
I just watched a movie called The Stranger Some Truth
in an eight with Live Tyler. Oh my gosh. It
was so scary, really scary.

Speaker 8 (01:29:09):
I don't so.

Speaker 14 (01:29:09):
I googled it because in the beginning it said based
on true events and one of the inspirations for the
film was the Kendy Cabin murders. K E. D D
I E. I've never heard of this. I don't know
if you have, might be something to explore.

Speaker 7 (01:29:37):
I'm looking it up now. I've never heard.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
I've never heard of it. Keeddy Cabin murders.

Speaker 5 (01:29:44):
It was an unsolved quadruple homicide that happened nineteen eighty
one in Kenny, California.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
Wow, in the Sierra Nevadas, right, Okay, that's they were.
They were found bound with electrical chords and medical tape
and they were stabbed, beaten, and bludgeoned inside this cabin.
Terrible and there was a kidnapping associated with it as well.
One of the victim's daughters, she was twelve years old.

(01:30:12):
She was abducted from them, received the scene and her
remains were found three years later. Oh wow, Yeah, I've
never seen that movie.

Speaker 7 (01:30:20):
Though, but no, it does. I just look that one up.
It seems I guess it's a home envision. A home
invasion thriller directed by Brian Berntino with Live Taylor. The
premises a wedding receptor a wedding reception, A couple retreats
to a remote house for the night, three masked intruders
terrorizing for no clear reason. One of the film's most

(01:30:41):
chilling lines explains the movie because you were home.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Oh no, no, no, lights out, lights out, everybody put
the lights a line. Can we talk about puppies and that?

Speaker 7 (01:30:53):
Yeah, I want to shift gears and tell.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
You, Jessica Catholin, I see your chair, I see your lamp.

Speaker 7 (01:30:58):
Well, I just got a wonderful DM from someone, because
we're getting some of those as we're on live right now.
This person, this is Joe Marie. She said, I just
have to say that this entire week, you have all
been speaking directly to my soul. I can't bring myself
to call right now because life feels extremely heavy. But

(01:31:18):
thank you, thank you for touching base on what so
many of us are going through and not really able
to understand exactly why much love.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
Oh so that gave me chills. That was so wonderful.
What like, I feel better talking about it too, you
know what I mean? Like it you're not alone, we're
exactulating like the weight of the world. Like obviously the
weight of the world is not on our shoulders, you know,
but I mean, we're all feeling it, right, We're all
feeling this heavy air. And I think just commiserating with

(01:31:49):
people who are also feeling like it's just really heavy,
it makes me feel better.

Speaker 5 (01:31:54):
I mean, like Jessica Kaplan had said, even just naming
and acknowledging I am anxious.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
I am you know, even to yourself, just okay.

Speaker 5 (01:32:04):
Then it's a place to start versus being you know
that it's appropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
It's also a sign of empathy and that it's appropriate.
And listen, you know, nobody is immune to not getting
hit hard in life, right, Everybody is kind of going
through their version of something. So what we don't realize
is that just by kind of sharing and talking about it,
it does it does ease a little bit because we
get stuck in our heads and that's like the last

(01:32:32):
place any of us should be alone. Is in our
own heads, right. I don't want to be with that
scary whisper because I know I know wants us tonight.

Speaker 7 (01:32:50):
But also, can I remind everyone what tomorrow is.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
Talk Back Tuesday.

Speaker 7 (01:32:56):
Yes, yes, everyone's sending those talkbacks because it's my favorite
time of the week is when we get to dig
into all of those.

Speaker 5 (01:33:03):
But yeah, yeah, case suggestions, questions about anything that we've
been talking about. Yeah, whatever you got, we want to
hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
Help us, help us shape the show, help us shape
the show. What a night it's been. I feel like
we've touched on a lot of areas, so much more
on this to come. Listen, talk back to Tuesday tomorrow.
You heard it here. We want to hear from you.
This is true crime tonight. We've been talking true crime
all the time. Stay safe and have a great night.

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