Luigi in Court, the Vanishing Coach, and a Case That Won’t Stay Closed

The fight over key evidence in the Luigi Mangione case could reshape the entire prosecution, while the Brian Walshe trial opens with two completely different versions of what happened to Ana Walshe. Plus, there’s a major shift in the decades-old Etan Patz case as prosecutors prepare for yet another trial. Tune in for all the details. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Monday, December first, and it's
snowy and chilly out there for many many people listen.
We have a stacked night of headlines. We hope you've
had a good Monday so far, because the week.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Is off to a newsy start.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
We have accused assassin Luigi Mangioni is back in court today.
Major major things developing on that case. Also, the trial
of the accused wife killer Brian Walsh also began today,
so body's been following that very closely. Also, more on
the high school football coach who went missing after being
charged with heinous second crimes. That seems to be a

(01:02):
case also unfolding. His son has officially spoken out. And
also there have been more arrests in connection to the
twenty two year old pregnant woman whose body was found
on November twenty fifth. We discussed that last night Rebecca
Park and before we go any Further, we also want
to honor who want to honor the National Guard and

(01:22):
all of those who serve us, who want to pay
our respect, of course to the family of US Army
specialists Sarah Beckstrom who lost her life last week. We
were all following that very very closely over the holiday.
I want to make sure we're noting it completely. And
also our hearts are with you know, staff Sergeant Andrew Wolf,
who continues to fight. Some promising news Today he apparently

(01:45):
wiggled his toes and gave a little bit of a
thumbs up, which is encouraging. But he's certainly not out
of the woods yet. And I can speak on behalf
of all of us. You know, our hearts are with
all the servicemen and women who are who are looking
out for us every day and every night. So who
And also look, there's only eighteen days left until the

(02:05):
big reveal of the Epstein file, so.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
That's not I was count of that at all.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
And man, Luigi, this is shaping up to be gangbusters.
We're nearing on a year when this shooting occurred. I
know we've all been following it very very closely, but Court,
do you want to give us a little bit of
the summation.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
Accused killer Luigi Mangione appeared today in Manhattan Supreme Court,
and that was for pre trial evidentiary hearing. Now Mangione's
defense sought to exclude what they're arguing is illegally obtained evidence.
As a reminder, just about one year ago, twenty seven
year old Luigi Mangione is accused of fatally shooting United

(02:51):
Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. This happened right outside a Manhattan hotel.
It was early in the morning, about six o'clock on
a normal business day. So ques killer man Gione faces
nine felony charges at the state level, including second degree murder,
as well as federal terrorism and capital murder charges following

(03:15):
a nationwide man hunt. If you guys can remember back
one year ago, oh so again? Shoot ever, right, so
the shooting allegedly, I mean, I don't even know do
we say allegedly Brian Thompson was shot in the street.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
We know that he was shot in point blank range
in the street.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
And it appears that that had been on purpose because allegedly, allegedly, allegedly,
Luigi Mangione had it out for the Health Insurance.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Well, even before.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
He was caught and we knew who it was, everything,
it looked very purposeful, like he walked right up to him,
he's walking down the street, shot him in the back basically,
I think, I think in his legs. He just topples
over in the suspect, let's say, just kind of starts
moving towards him and kept shooting.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
By the way, also was such graphic, graphic video that
we all saw and Courtney, you and I were like
knee deep in that from Jump Street and absolutely right, yeah,
sorry to cut you off, no.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
So that I mean, it was it was such a
huge it is such a huge monumental deal. So after
after that happened in Manhattan, there was a nationwide manhunt
and then ultimately the accused killer, Luigimi and Gionne, was
arrested in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
He was sitting at a McDonald's.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
Important to note he has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
So here is what his defense team is proffering, and
they want a.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Lot off the table.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
So, by the way, at the pre trial hearing today,
Mangione was wearing a gray blazer, a red and white
shirt and was permitted to remain unshackled, which this is
always something that attorneys fight back and forth about. So
that's how Mangion appe and both the prosecution and the

(05:03):
defense teams argued over whether certain evidence should be excluded. Now,
the defense asked the judge to exclude a three D
printed nine millimeter handgun allegedly found in the backpack of
accused killer Luigi Mango and at the time of his arrest,
and the defense team is contending that the search was

(05:25):
warrantless and therefore unconstitutional.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
That's a big one.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
The prosecutors played video surveillance from the McDonald's in Altaduna, Pennsylvania,
where Mangione was ultimately arrested, and in it you can
see the officers approaching, questioning, frisking, and then handcuffing accused
killer man Gione, and that was more than thirty minutes.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
After they arrived.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
The audio of the nine to one to one call
that was made by the McDonald's manager was admitted, and
in that call, the manager of McDonald said that they
had recognized the accused killer man Gione as the suspect
in the killing of CEO Brian Thompson by his distinctive eyebrows.
Do you guys remember when the manhunt was going on

(06:16):
and his man Gione had a mask on all that were.

Speaker 5 (06:21):
That's hit Saudi And like we saw the photo at
the front desk of like the hostel he was staying at,
and then the Starbucks photo we saw, and then they
found that backpack of Monopoly money.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
I mean it was crazy and the man winsto.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
And remember he'd been on the run and prior to
that there was like a bike involved in Central Park
and he sort of knew where there wasn't going to
be cameras.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
He was holding a three D gun.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
You know, Like, let's remember that this this gun was
actually like a gun that he actually created. And remember
the bullet casings that had the messaging on it pos denied. Yeah, yeah,
So this was like performative in some big way. So
if in fact, what is happening in court today bears
to be and these very big pieces of the puzzle

(07:09):
are removed from his upcoming trial, that would be staggering.
I mean think about it, his arrest, the manifesto, the
actual the gun itself, him actually being like cold and
chili and in McDonald's having been on the run from
many of the days eating those hash browns. A whole
world is looking for him. I mean, that would be monumental,

(07:33):
beyond measure. I can't believe that that would happen, because,
of course, they still have the video of the shooter allegedly,
you know, Luigi Mangione, shooting him in cold blood outside
on the New York City street.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
But they not enough.

Speaker 5 (07:48):
I don't know if they don't have the manifesto, which
is where he basically admits and where all the pre
planning is done, like he where he's targeting, you know, uh,
Brian Thompson, I don't just don't know.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
I don't because if you take away all of that evidence,
which again the defense team is saying was unconstitutionally put
into yeah, taken from them. So that also would take
off the table the notebook that was found in Mangione's backpack,
and that had all of the writings that were critical
of the health insurance injury.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
It's the fruit of the poisonous tree.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's the most important fruit of his said tree. By
the way, if you're just joining us, I'm Stephanie Leidecker
here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in and you're
listening to true crime tonight, we're talking about Luigi Mangione,
accused CEO healthcare killer, who had a big appearance in
court today on this ongoing trial. It's kind of a

(08:44):
pre trial game. And what's really important here too is
number one in court today he did he look like
he was all polished up.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
He wasn't in shackles.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Remember, the optics of being in the courtroom in shackles
is a big thing. And his purp walk when he
was first arrested and brought in on federal charges has
been highly debated.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
They said it was too much because he was shackled.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
He was all smiles for miles in the courtroom and
then laughing Giglin.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
All seemed pretty light.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
And then they actually showed the video to the judge
of the actual shooting on the street, and he was
pretty deadpan at that point. I just can't imagine, like
what is this boy thinking, Like was this just a
super mess?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Is he having guilt if in fact he's done it?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And is it possible that Luigi will walk on a technicality.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (09:37):
Did you see all the free Luigi people outside wearing
their like beauty sashes? That said, free Luigi on them.
It's crazy making, it's wild, it's so incredible. It's like
the year, this whole last year, and you know, a
few years it seems like it's the the age of
the bushy eyebrowed. You know, man that has a good family,
that has education and is upwardly mobile, you know those types,

(10:02):
you know, we are, of course, I'm thinking of Brian
Coburger and of course him as well.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
It's like the most dangerous beasts in the world. And
it's so upsetting.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
And this is nothing against men or women with bushy eyebrows, no,
just of course, yes, of course they're beloved of bushy eyebrows.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
You know, yeah, I wish I had them, but I
need a.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Few other things that came out in court, there was
testimony from a corrections officer who stated that while accused
killer Mangeone was being held at the Huntington, Pennsylvania facility
after the arrest, that apparently the two of them discussed
healthcare topics. The corrections officer he couldn't recall whether Mangio

(10:43):
and voiced concrete opinion one way or the other, but
did say that Mangione told him he quote wanted to
make a statement to the public and this get ready.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Stephanie.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
The corrections officer also testified that given the high profile
nature of the case national manhunt at the time, prison
officials placed accused Manngeone under constant watch. He was in
a plexiglass cell. It was a special precaution ordered to
avoid an Ebstein style situation.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, they churned on him like every seven minutes or something.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
Like that, like oh really, yeah, what a waste of
a life to his poor family, you know again, like
he comes from a really you know, this guy was
like the valedictorian in his class.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Has anything changed in the healthcare world because of this
said statement?

Speaker 3 (11:35):
That's what's so like. Let that sink in, Luigi.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
If in fact this is what you did and there
was a big message behind it, good luck. I feel
like my premiums have only gone up and it's just
not okay. And I see him smiling in court today
and again he's accused, not convicted, So I feel divided
about it a little bit.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Just seeing lightheartedness and him getting to look like he's
going to a job interview at Harvard is upsetting.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
It's very upsetting.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
But I have to wonder if you recall, the defense
also had waged or put out statements that up to
Pam Bondy that Luigi man Jones case was being infringed upon.
So I wonder if the optics of having him in
a suit was partially to say, Okay, you know, we're

(12:25):
not going to try and convict him in the eyes
of the public by having him in a jumpsuit.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I wonder if he's just like petrified or is feeling confident.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Well, I think a lot of it will come down
to what the judge ultimately decides can and cannot be
allowed in because the defense they're fighting hard. What the
defense is saying is that officers fabricated a bomb suspicion
and that was why they opened the backpack. And they're
saying that they fabricated that after the fact to cover

(12:58):
up the McDonald's correct, because what they're saying, you know,
they said, hey, it was a completely unconstitutional backpack search,
and defense is saying after the fact, the officers said, oh,
we were suspicious of a bomb and that's why we
opened it without reading the miranda rights before.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
So, just for the understanding of it, if I look
similar to somebody who is on the run for a
murder that's being you know, followed by the world. And
I happen to be sitting in McDonald's and I have
a backpack on and police officers come over to me
and want to have a look in my bag?

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Is that unconstitutional?

Speaker 6 (13:35):
If you're if you're a suspicious, if you match a suspect,
I thought they I'm not, you.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Know, I'm just curious what the answer should be, Like,
what should somebody doing that.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
I mean, I have property, he's at a McDonald's.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
It's not like, yeah, well they're saying that without a warrant.
So that is what the Luigimanjigones defense is saying, is
that the search of the backpack, since it was warrantless,
was unconstitutional.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Meanwhile, we saw allegedly that this guy had murdered somebody
in cold blood, which would make him a danger to
society if in fact this was him and he was
at large. So first of all, how could they not
read the miranda rights? I feel like that's tier one.
But also it's very brave to step into that situation

(14:24):
knowing that this is a person who's potentially extremely violent.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
So I mean, who.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
Maybe maybe maybe we can ask Jared about because I know,
like when you're driving your car, they can't like search
your trunk without your permission, right, they can't search your
car with But when you're in private property, when you're
on private property, though, I don't know the rules because
like I know, when I go into a stadium, I

(14:52):
have to open my purse and let them look in
it to get in, right, what's the difference.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
I don't know. I'd like to put it on the
list for Wednesday.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
Put it on the lift for Wednesday. Stay tuned. We
have a lot more coming up. We're going to go
into the Brian Walsh trial and what happened to Rebecca Park.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Stay tuned.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
my favorite what should we call it, Chica's True Crime
Chicas for the moment, a coordney at Armstrong Body move in.
We have Taha, Sam and Adam in the studio as well.
By the way, the weighted vest is back post holiday.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
It's on everybody grab yours.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I literally see nobody reaching for their vests yet we'll
do this next week, but in the meantime, there's so
much to get to because again, the trial of accused
wife killer Brian Walsh.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
We were covering this.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
For a while now his trial officially begins today, and
also later in the show, we're going to be updating
you on the missing high school coach who has been
accused of some pretty heinous sex crimes. And listen, more
arrests in connection to Rebecca Park the story we covered
last night. Her body was discovered without her baby, So

(16:18):
more developments on that as well.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
But body first up. Brian Walsh.

Speaker 5 (16:22):
Yeah, Brian Walsh. So today was the first day in
the murder trial. Day one in the murder trial of
Massachusetts man Brian Walsh. He stands accused of killing and
dismembering his wife, Anna Walsh, who reportedly vanished early January
twenty twenty three and whose body has never been recovered.
Right before jury selection began, defended Brian Walsh pled guilty

(16:47):
to lesser charges of misleading police and improperly conveying a
human body. So today was opening statements, all right, So
I'm gonna start with some of the highlights, okay, from
the prosecute all right, So the prosecution opened by outlining
victim Anna Walsh's disappearance, her alleged romantic relationship with a

(17:08):
DC based real estate agent named William Fasto, and accused
killer Brian Walsh's December Google searches about divorce. So before
the murder happened, before she ended up dead, Brian Walsh
had been searching about divorce.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Okay, so they presented that.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
Prosecutors highlighted that the accused killer, Brian Walsh, called Anna
Walsh's employer on January fourth to ask about her whereabouts,
like where is she? But he did not contact the police. Okay,
with the with Anna Walsh's she's the victim boss being
the first to hear about Anna being quote unquote missing

(17:47):
evidence presented by prosecutors include included Brian Walsh's Google search
history after victim Anna Walsh vanished, such as, okay, here
we go, ready at four fifty five am, How long
before a body starts to smell at four fifty eight
three minutes later, how to stop a body from decomposing

(18:08):
at five forty seven about forty five minutes later, Ten
ways to dispose of a dead body if you really
need to, and then early morning, so a couple hours later,
how long for someone missing to inherit? How long missing
to be dead? Those were early morning searches, you know
that they presented in court today. And another one can

(18:31):
you throw away body parts? What this dismemberment? And the
best ways to dispose of a body?

Speaker 6 (18:37):
Wow?

Speaker 5 (18:37):
And then he did searches related to like some forensics cleanup, okay,
like how to clean blood from wood and floor luminol?
To detect blood? Is it better to throw a crime
scene clothes away?

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Or wash them?

Speaker 5 (18:52):
What happens when you put body parts in pneumonia? What
does formaldehyde do? How long does DNA last? Can identification
be made on partial remains? So he was searching these things.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
In this guy.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
You know what this this actually might illuminate for me
a little bit his pleading guilty because we spoke with
Jared Farentino last week about the fact that Brian Walsh,
you know, the accused murderer, had said that he was
indeed guilty of moving the body. So I wonder if

(19:30):
it's not because this is I don't know how much
more damage it gets?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Yeah, how can you defend you refute it?

Speaker 4 (19:38):
So the strategy was just to say this.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Happened, and you know, the story will go from there that.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
Of those who don't know, he pled guilty to you know,
the conveying the legal conveyance of the body, which means
disposing of the body and so, but he did not,
he pled not guilty to the actual murder.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
So I'll get into what the defense is saying. In
just the second the.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
Prosecutors noted that victim Anna Walsh had more than one
million dollars in life insurance with the accused Brian Walsh
as the beneficiary, potentially providing some kind of financial motive.
The prosecution offered no theory of how she died because
they don't have her body. They have no idea how
she died, right, So the opening statements for the defense, now,

(20:23):
this is what the defense is presenting to the jury.
The defense claims that victim Anna died of a sudden,
unexplained death in their home after a quiet New Year's Eve,
not at the hands of her husband, Brian. They argue
he discovered her unresponsive in bed, he panicked and then
made decisions out of fear for what would happen to

(20:44):
their three young sons. And I'm going to quote here.
Anna Walsh was unresponsive, so much so that her body
rolled off the bed. Regarding the incriminating Google searches, the
defense says they were made in a state of panic
after he found her, not his premeditation. The searches, in
their telling, reflect desperation and fear, not guilt.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
He bought a hack saw, he purchased.

Speaker 5 (21:09):
And went to depo or whatever, and it was his wife.
He had children with her. So this is what he says, okay,
Or this is what the defense says, never thought anybody
would believe that Anna Walsh was a live one minute
and dead the next, and actually but ted having three
young sons, saying all he could think about were those
three boys. He tried to hide it so he could

(21:31):
hang onto those boys.

Speaker 6 (21:33):
So he's saying he tried to hide the body just
so that the boys didn't see this body.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
If she died of natural causes that happens, that happens
all the time, die, God forbidden, aneurysm, or some sort
of hard situation, or there's many medical things that can
happen to a person that are unexpected and terrible. But
if you're a loved one or even you're as soon
to be ex who you still have children with and
you have a relationship with.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
If you turn over and they're they're.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Dead, why would you not call nine to one one
maybe they could be saved.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
And he's saying one, he's saying that, you know, he's
he did this to protect the children. So he was
okay because he reported her missing. I mean, basically that's
one of the ended up happening. Was she ended up
being quote unquote missing, okay because he disposed of her body.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, so he was okay it up.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
He was okay with thinking letting the boys think that
mom left us and ran away, you know.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Like, but he was not okay, right, It doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
No, this is a guy that was jealous because he
knew full well that she was about to leave him.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
And can you imagine being.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Married to this guy who's capable of hacking up your
body and making searches like this.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Allegedly allegedly allegedly I know I'm leaping here, but.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
Still right and I think I think that you know,
he was he was facing sentencing for his art theft conviction, right,
So he was he was convicted of art theft and
he was getting ready to basically be sentenced to that,
and Anna, the victim, was encouraging him just to face
the music right, yes.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
And a lot and stand up to what he did.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
And a lot of people, including myself, theorized that he
did this in order to have leniency with the judge,
like my wife is missing, nobody can take care of
our kids, like you know, show me some leniency so
that I can stay home with the boys, you know.
So there's a lot of different there's a lot of
different motives that are floating around. One is the affair,

(23:31):
the other is this money, and the other is the
art theft. Maybe it's a combination of all of it.

Speaker 6 (23:35):
Has he been come forward with where the body is now?
So that part we still don't know. So he's he
did all this like I hit it to protect my kids.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's all over.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
He dismembered her and put her body parts some at
a dumpster near his mother's home. They found they found
bones and whatnot in that, and it's all over the city.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
He went to a dumpster and took body parts of
his beloved wife and the mother of his children, and
then started disposing of them in various jumpsters, including one
by his mom's house.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
How bananas is that?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
And by the way, what was the artist he was counterfeiting?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
And this guy is too much. This guy's a total clown.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
He was, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna like dish out this
fake art, fraudulent art of Andy Warhol, like no one
knows how to spot that in the crowd. And yeah,
I was looking at some serious charges and this seemed
like the most performative thing he could do to get leniency.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
It's really unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
I take issue with something that the defense attorney has said.
So the defense attorney, Larry Tipton said this about Brian
Walsh's deceased wife, Anna, said that she died of a
little known condition called sudden unexplained death about an hour

(24:59):
after at the New Year rang in. How in the
world without Brian Walsh being a medical doctor.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Who did the examination. He's an art he's an art
enthusiast correct for what that is. How could he.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Surmise or know that she died of this little known
condition sudden explained unexplained.

Speaker 6 (25:20):
That she didn't have a heart attack because.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Like you said, or call a doctor or an ambulance,
because you know you're not You're a fraudulent art dealer,
not a doctor, and perhaps the ambulance could have resuscitated her,
or maybe there was something that could have been done
to spare her life.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
Well we know that because that didn't happen. I mean,
let's be real, he killed, right.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
If you okay, like you're just joining us. We are
talking about Brian Walsh, who was on trial for allegedly
killing and dismembering his wife, Anna Walsh. We want to
hear your thoughts eight A eight three one crime. What
do you think so far of what body has laid
out about the prosecution?

Speaker 3 (25:58):
On defense?

Speaker 5 (26:00):
Right, so the jury is there's twelve people plus four alternatives.
There's nine women and seven men. Sergeant Harrison Schmidt testified
about the early investigation, including the search of the Walsh home,
speaking with family and friends, and documenting evidence such as
like the trash bags in the basement and that Low's
receipt for that saw. Accused killer Brian Walshton denied that

(26:24):
Anna had another relationship, although Brian mentioned Anna's friend William Fasto,
who prosecutors say was her romantic partner. But you know
they're saying that there wasn't that was not Brian Brian
didn't believe it was real, so it could not have
been a motive, is what they're saying. Like, no, that

(26:45):
didn't happen. They argued, she had no intention of leaving
her husband, Brian.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
And the only thing she was going to leave him
for really was because he was bringing home her whole family.
And you know, liar, liar, hands on fire, looking at
jail time for fraud.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Right.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
So, as we stated too, Anna's remains have never been found,
which means the prosecution has to rely entirely on circumstantial
digital and forensic evidence. There's no medical information that they
have to go on, like no reason of death and nothing.
They have nothing. There's nobody. This is a no body case,
all right. There's very difficult, but it happens. So the

(27:27):
jury will have to weigh two competing narratives. A premeditated
murder and disposal, right, that's from the state, and from
the defense. A tragic, unexplained death followed by panic and concealment.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
That's the defense.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Can you say, hell, Mary, I know, because I mean, honestly,
look at this guy. I'm showing a picture right now
if no one has seen him, he looks like that
guy this guy looks so smug in the courtroom.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
You know, if you haven't had a chance. It infuriates me.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
The sight of him infuriates me because he does look
like he's, you know, making some deals and kind of
above it, like where are the tears? You should be devastated.
And I would think he looks like he thinks he's
going to get away with something.

Speaker 6 (28:15):
He might get away, but I don't know, well when
get Jarrett's here, and you guys might know this because
I'm still trying to wrap my head around. I guess
sort of the logic of what the defense is doing.
Like so he would serve a lesser amount of time
if it was just dismembering the body versus also killing it.

(28:35):
So so his whole strategy is I'm going to go
for a short amount of time. She died, naturally, cut
her up, put her pieces everywhere, to protect the kid.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Save my children. He's so nice of him, health fatherly.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
By the way, you said the perfect word, taha, and
I'm glad you did the word. Here is strategy. This
is not you know, crime and punishment. This is not
you do the crime, you do the time. This is
not standing up for what you did, and begging for mercy.
It's you know, we heard we're seeing this in the
Luigi mangi om case too. You know, it's like a
technicality again allegedly that's what the crime that he committed. Again,

(29:09):
we're in like technicality sauce in the courtroom, which is
not like did they do it?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Did they not do?

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Technicality Olympics? The technicality Olympics exactly. That's it's very what
it is disturbing, it is and it just.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Shows you your lawyer counts.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Oh yes, whoever has the best lawyer wins, which also
is the endless loop of God forbid. You're accused of
a crime you didn't commit. I mean, you don't have
the resources to hire an attorney. I would be in prison.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
You most people would be in I'd be in prison
one hundred percent because I driven away.

Speaker 6 (29:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
And in addition, Stephanie just pulled up one picture of
the kind kind of objectively smug looking Brian Walsh.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
He was to murdering his wife.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
And while I was looking at this was pictures of
him when he was on a shopping spree, when he
was getting a Tirex suit, hatchet, a hack, saw a hammers,
you know, buying all of those things which when found
had both his and Anna's DNA on it.

Speaker 6 (30:09):
Right.

Speaker 5 (30:10):
So the defense is presenting this theory of sudden death
plus panic, right, So a lot is going to hinge
on how convincing their explanation is compared to this digital,
circumstantial and forensic evidence that the state has. It's really
going to be a toss up on who's more convincing, honestly, away,
it's going to be interesting to watch.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
And no mention of Michael Proctor today.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh we didn't even mention the Michael Proctor will stay
too Monday, Proctor count you.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Just threw that in in the bitter I know.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
Okay, we'll be following this case very closely as it
continues to enrold, so we're.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Going to keep it coming. But if you want to
jump in and join the convo.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
You can call us live eight eight eight three one crime,
or of course you could always leave us a talk
back as you know, download iHeartRadio app. There's this little
microphone icon in the top right hand corner. You just
push that leave a message and then we'll play your
message on the show. Or you can always hit us

(31:12):
up on our socials at True Crime Tonight on Instagram
and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight's Show on Facebook.
So let's go to a talk back actually before we
kick in.

Speaker 7 (31:26):
Hey, friends, the Samesley calling from Canada. My question is
for Stephanie. Stephanie, you often use this term of phrase,
saying there's a bit of an arrested development thing going on.
Maybe it's an American phrase, but I'm wondering if you
can explain what that means. I've actually never heard that
saying before, so would love to get your insight on it.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Thanks by Thanks for the question, Ainsley.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
I think you're referring to me saying arrested development in
reference to David the pop star.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Perhaps this is.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
The only time I think about saying it, But in general,
that basically means you haven't fully matured.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
You know, we're stunted.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, like in a fun, funny way, which none of
these cases would fall under that category, but in a
light way, it's, you know, the guy that's thirty two
years old and still acting like a child and doing
very childlike things.

Speaker 5 (32:21):
Like maybe he doesn't want to get a job and
he's sitting at home playing video games.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
All day and a little.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Socially stunted social rezs and in David the pop star reference,
I had read this someplace. But basically, he was one
of those kids that went to school until the seventh grade,
and then it was COVID, right, so everybody got stuck
at home. And then in that COVID period he had

(32:45):
found really his love for music, and his mom really
encouraged him to start working on his own music.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
So he actually never returned to school.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
So is it possible we were just I think talking
about I think his potential relationship with Celeste Reves Hernandez,
who of course was so very very young, died at
fourteen years old. That maybe because he had sort of
a seventh grade social mentality, that being around younger, younger teens,

(33:15):
because that's a pretty significant age difference at that time,
especially so that young you know, it's really a big
difference in terms of maturity.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
So it was just as kind of theorizing a little bit.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
She would have been thirteen years old, thirteen years how
old would he have been at that point, nineteen nineteen twenty.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
But I mean it does the theory, you know, we're
obviously we don't know for fact definitely makes sense with
something that big happening. For example, a lot of people
would get caught in a state of arrested development if
they develop a drug habit at say the age of
seventeen very often, then if they come clean later, they

(34:00):
are literally in an arrested development from seventeen years old.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
And I want to say, it's an actual medical term.
There's pretty legitimate. There's two there's a medical term in
a psychological term. A medical term like your growth plate
malfunctions and like maybe a limb is longer than another,
like you just don't have a good growth pattern. And
the psychological term is exactly how you described it.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Stuff. It's it's a real thing.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
And sometimes even for like, oh, a man that's been
married for many, many, many, many many many years gets
divorced and like suddenly starts dating the girl at the
age that he was prior to getting married. I know
this is not crime related, but just an observation life
observations and stuff, because that's the familiar age group, right,

(34:48):
that's the familiar.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
For when they can remember back to that time period.
So that's a little more exessing anyway.

Speaker 6 (34:54):
I agree. I always get bothered when people use that term,
and you know, it's an older person and with miners
like I don't know if they use it for Michael
Jackson a lot too.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
And I'm like, it's still weird that there's no it's
still pedophilia.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
That would still be, you know, a crime, which is
you know what's interesting about the David case, which I
know we'll talk about maybe more tomorrow, just the fact
that that in and of itself, if in fact they
were having a relationship, would have been a crime.

Speaker 6 (35:21):
Yeah. Wow, I'm glad that we got that cleared up
for too Canadian listener. And I think we have some
some other ones.

Speaker 8 (35:28):
That Hijika's and she goes Amy from Ohio. I just
wanted to comment really quickly on the whole thing that
Trump's administration has been the most transparent with the Epstein files.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
It's because he ran on.

Speaker 9 (35:44):
It and be greatly underreported as the fact that after
des Lane was arrested, that there was a significant DOJ
investigation by the Biden administration that was killed by Trump's
administration in January.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
What yeah, I didn't know this.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
Yeah, so wait a minute, Gislaine gets arrested and Biden
opens up an investigation into something into Epstein and Gislaine,
and Trump runs, he wins the election, He.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Runs on transparency.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
By the rest on the record, many people had like
kind of track of the Epstein thing too at that point, right,
you know, if you weren't following that case very closely.
I have been, but many hadn't. It was out of
the the news cycle, if you will. So it's almost
as if Trump kind of resurrected it knowing full well

(36:39):
that it would never actually see the light of day,
which is even more crazy making because again, how dopey
do we have to all seem that you're making a
promise that you know full well you'll never actually plan
on committing or sticking to, even from jump because there
was always this added back channel.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
So this, this investigation into this was killed. It was killed.
And by the way, the fact that.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
We have eighteen days left in this ticking clock where
it's eighteen days one eight, remember this that bill was signed?

Speaker 3 (37:16):
Should we do that date a daily day?

Speaker 6 (37:19):
Signed? On?

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Hold on, I have it right here, forgive me.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
The Epstein Files Transparency Act was signed into law on
November twenty, twenty twenty five, seems like just yesterday, and
there's thirty days until December nineteenth to be exact, for
all files to be released. And again, a lot of
things are making press. This is not one of them
in the exact moment. But I can promise you the

(37:46):
victims are, you know, speaking out that they're getting death
threats after death threats after death threats. The pressure is mounting,
and that clock is real. That's an unavoidable clock that frankly,
even I'm surprised, I think we all are.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
We're even in this.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Position where allegedly these files will in fact have to
be released.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
This is a bipartisan decision.

Speaker 4 (38:09):
Is there an or else to that? The technic talk
everything has to be released, Let's make believe the day
comes or.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
What what happens if they don't meet the deadline? Like
are they holding contempt or something like?

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Great question, Yeah that I have.

Speaker 6 (38:25):
I don't know the end, but.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
That's a great idea, Jared, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (38:33):
Yeah, we'll have to look into that one.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
But because there have been so many times when they're
going to be released and the fires are.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Going to be released, so just it never happens. Yeah,
I'm curious.

Speaker 6 (38:43):
Yeah, it's also getting very close to the holiday season,
So there's a world where it kind of gets lost
in the.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
I imagine I don't want no.

Speaker 6 (38:52):
No, no, so many times I'm team I don't so
much here.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
That is not how to day is going to work.
We are Americans. This is the the process. This is
a promise. This has been written as an act. It's
a it's a law. Like it cannot just get kicked
down the pike till after the holidays. Why is everybody
giving me like a face of though they don't believe
that's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Okay, we love Google.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right now, this is not necessarily sourcing it back at
its finest on just on December nineteenth.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
I'll do this meantime.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
I know we have other talkbacks to get to, but
I'm going to get to the bottom of what happens.
If it's in fact December.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Night, you're on the case. I believe it.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
If you're on the case and you're going to make
it happen, I have full faith in you to make
it happen.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Otherwise, can bet or not up.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
That's like going to keep us distracted from this en clock.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Do you think that's kind of a mean right now?
I mean, you guys are the ones putting that in
my head. Listen, this is true crime tonight.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Right now we are talking about the clock that is
ticking down on the Ebstein Transparency Act that has been
filed to release everything. Do you think within the next
thirty days as stipulated by law, we will indeed see
all of those files. Let us know eight at eight
three one crime or leave us a talk back and
let's go grab one right now.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I was calling because I am curious about summer well
what's going.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
On with that nice summer Wells, cad. I haven't. I
haven't talked about Summer Wells in a really long time.
Summer Wells. And for those who don't know, she's a.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
Little girl in Tennessee, in northeastern Tennessee, if I remember correctly,
and she went missing out of her home, her front
yard in twenty twenty one, I believe, and.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
There's been no trace of her.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
She's five years old, little girl, just a little baby,
the cutest little thing you've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Please look her up. It's summer Moon tall.

Speaker 5 (40:59):
Wells and the FBI or a TVI I believe, just
released a new kind of like age progression photo of
her back in August. These are these are the developments
back in August, there's been a news because she would
be like nine or ten by now, and t was
she went missing, and her parents really took a lot

(41:22):
of heat because there's no explanation for her being missing.
They just she was there and then she wasn't. And
you know, they live in rural Tennessee, they don't have
a lot of money. There were a lot of CPS
and domestic violence reports on the family long standing. In fact,
about a month after she went missing, the Wells family,
her mom and dad don they.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Lost their kids.

Speaker 5 (41:45):
All of their kids got taken from them and adopted
out like dcs, all their kids. They this case was
nothing but toxicity on social media.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
It was just everywhere.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
It was just awful because parents were very active on
social media and they engaged with you know people, and
that just opened them up.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
To criticism left and it was. It was terrible.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
And poor Summer got like kind of lost in the
toxicness of this case. And many people won't even talk
about our case anymore because of how toxic it was.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
And it's really sad.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
TBI said that, oh, oh, the most important thing that
just happened right near the home, about ten miles from
the home. They searched a property in connection with her disappearance,
and that this just happened last month. In November, agents
and detectives followed up on new investigative lead around the

(42:44):
thirty five hundred block of Van Hill Road in Greenville,
roughly nine point eight miles from Summer's family home, and
that sparked a lot of new conversations about Summer Wells
and why were they investigating this property.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
And everybody's looking at.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
The trucks in the driveway and there was a truck
when some are went missing, and you know, people are
trying to piecing together and stuff like that. But those
are the only updates TB. This still is an active
amble alert in Tennessee. TBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations
are a fabulous, fabulous organization, are very good. They know
what they're doing, but they have nothing, I mean well

(43:20):
nothing probably that we know. The parents have never been arrested,
nothing like that, Nothing's ever come out of it.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Nobody knows where Summer Wells is.

Speaker 6 (43:30):
And they lost all their kids as well, so that
would be right.

Speaker 5 (43:33):
And there's I would say fifty percent of people think
that the parents were involved, and fifty percent say they weren't.
It's very like nobody knows, you know, and because there's
no I hate to say this, but there's no body, right,
it's nobody. Cases are very difficult and you know, nobody
knows what Now. The parents of Summer Wells, I should

(43:55):
add say, they think that it's crazy, but they think DCS,
the Department of Child Services, is trafficking.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
That's what they think.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
Oh and because they had their kids taken and basically
given to other families, they're they're using that like, look
what they did to our family. They took my kids
and now they're with other families, and they also took Summer.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
That's what they think. That's what they say.

Speaker 6 (44:20):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
So it's it's very it's very toxic and it's very sad.
But there is no update on somewheer else.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I'm very glad that the yeah you updated us on
that that's even thought about Summer.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
It was.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
It was a case I followed for a hot minute,
but then it just got so toxic I had to
step away.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
It was like, oh I can't deal with this.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
Yeah wow yeah following that one.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
Oh yeah, if there's any major updates, we'll definitely have
I mean, obviously, if there's a major update, we'll definitely
discuss it. But the update recently is just that they
searched a property and connection about ten miles away, but
we don't have any information on what they found or
why they were searching.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
Okay, yeah, well, to take.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Off my weight to vest, it's.

Speaker 6 (44:59):
I time for one more talk back.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Maybe, Yeah, let's do a quick one here.

Speaker 10 (45:06):
Okay, High Through Crime Team Andrea from New Jersey. Here, Courtney,
regarding your mashed potatoes with cream cheese up the Pioneer Woman.
She has a really good mashed potato recipe with the
cream cheese in it.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
That's a riot. You're a Pioneer Woman.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
You are actually one hundred percent correct that that is
what we ended up using, or some version of it,
because that came up very high in the results for
mashed potatoes or cream cheese was indeed the Pioneer Woman.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
So my friend made them. This is really cheese dollars,
do you guys eggs? No eggs?

Speaker 6 (45:48):
Yeah, I haven't done that, no.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Consider Oh yeah, it makes them a little fluffy and delicious.

Speaker 5 (45:54):
Really okay, just like a little doll up, a little
doll up to your liking.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Little well, listen, keep it here, because coming up, we
are going to get back into the mystery surrounding the
pregnant mother to be Rebecca Park. More info on that,
and later there's new twists and the disappearance of six
year old Aton Pates. It's a decade old case that's
headed back to court.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
We've got that. We've got more true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So we are discussing
the reality of what would happen in eighteen days if,
in fact, the Epstein files are not released as promised
on December nineteenth, as President Trump signed into law that

(46:52):
that would happen. So I would like to believe that
there will be enough public outcry and that this has
been a bipartisan decision that that would never ever happen.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
I have a tough crowd around me.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
I'm a tough company, kids, It's a Crown tough company.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
So Courtney, I'm just tell me, tell me.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
What this is A top line search so I'll qualify
with that. But what I'm finding is that if indeed
the records are not released under the Epstein Transparency Act,
the Department of Justice must explain why.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
No, no, no, no, no ridiculous. Yeah, say it that way. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
The Act allows for withholding records only if a couple
of things apply. If they jeopardize an active federal investigation,
one such as the one that's right, that's exactly right,
or contain unwarranted invasion of privacy such as the victims
identifiable information.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
They could not be more clear like, let those we
not been datching, yep, standing on the steps one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
However, that is a reason to withhold that you could give.
Also if it's child abuse material, so that should be
another reason, understand. So what is not permitted to withhold
you'll enjoy this Stephanie, I think is if it's embarrassment
or reputational harm. So you can't withhold or redact documents

(48:27):
simply because it would cause embarrassment to a public figure
or official. But I'll be honest with you, I think
this active investigation sounds like a slam dunk to me.
I mean, they just open one to former President Bill Clinton.
So I think we can stop there, I.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Mean on the way. May I be wrong? May you right?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
No, you guys are going to be wrong. We need
to see the files. We need to see the bank records.
We need to see any bank transaction that has occurred
between JP, Morgan, et cetera. How is it possible that
that many hush deals were made and there's not a
very clean record of it. And people want to see
what happened behind closed doors in the grand jury testimony

(49:07):
that federally convicted Gileane Maxwell the first time for twenty years,
that will say so much?

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Right?

Speaker 1 (49:14):
So?

Speaker 3 (49:15):
And why complicated deal now?

Speaker 2 (49:18):
And why are we protecting the names of influential people
and potential policy leaders and world thinkers if they are
up to no good?

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Like, what's the cover up for? This?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Is not to prevent the victims from getting death threats.
They're already getting the death threats. They're so front and center.
Can you imagine if they blow.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Past this date?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Oh I lose my number or find me where? Because
maybe we'll get some those are fighting words. Maybe we'll
get some. But they're going to hold back.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
Oh, we have to hold back these files because we
just open this investigations.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
I don't even think Pam Bondi can step up to
a podium again and say.

Speaker 6 (49:57):
That with me.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Has been hypnotized and like.

Speaker 6 (50:03):
What is.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Tiffany minutes go missing from federal tapes in prison? Nothing
to see here. There's been a lot said with a
straight face that is a flabbergas I know.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
But at this point, it seems as though we've been
yapping about this for a really long time. Frankly since
day one of this show. Thankfully, and so many of
our listeners, you guys have been so great by reaching
out and giving us your feedback and giving us information.
All that to be said, it does seem like it
was kind of yesterday's story to many until recently, and

(50:36):
now it does feel like by all accounts, just based
on that vote where so many Republicans change their tune
and record time, nobody wants to go down as that
guy in legacy and in history.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
We'll see, well, if your hands are tied, your hands
are tied. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
Bandy, the one that told us that missing the first
time something that happens at all prisons.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
It's it's something with this happens all the time here.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
It is no, no, just to go walk down memory.
First she said they were on her desk. In prior
to that, there's a whole stack of them. Remember there
was like images of all the files. Then they were
on her desk. Then there was nothing to see here. Zoop,
change a tune.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah, Then there was the missing minute.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Then it was not controversial because Pam Bondy assured us
that it wasn't controversial because that's what happens all the
time in that missing minute. It turns out it's just
like resets, right.

Speaker 5 (51:31):
So you saying, well, she can't get up there and
say nothing to see here, because yeah, she can, because
she's gone it a million times already.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
But I feel like the first few times nobody really cared,
and now.

Speaker 6 (51:43):
Everybody the spotlight is on a line.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I can't even imagine that she would have the nerve
or audacity to stand front and center one more time
to take the minute. I would be like, there's no
way you'll make me go to that podium one more time.

Speaker 11 (52:02):
Do you remember when they released the files, Like, yeah,
they gave out.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
And they did the photo and it was the whole
thing was complete.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
It was like literally they were handing up pages with
black Marky Locker.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
And then they were like, oh wait.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
We just we actually just dumped a bunch of files.
What are you guys talking about? It was identical to
the ones that we already had. So yes, but I
think the gig is up. You can only play along
so many times, like I don't know whatever, I was
just watching and again not political, but Cash Puttel, who
was also the biggest charge. He was on every podcast.
You know, Sean Ryan talking to Joe Rogan, released the files,

(52:43):
release the files, until the files weren't his hands. And
now he looks like he's been hypnotized, like he stands there.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
It's not even he doesn't mean. He does not even
blink at this point.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
So I just don't think any of them could get
up with a straight face to the American people and
say we are trying to protect the victims.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Yeah, and therefore it's predacted.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
Past behavior determines future behavior, and they have shown that
is what they.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Have shown me. So let us find out. I'm going
to hold out hope. I'm holding out.

Speaker 6 (53:19):
That's maybe our Christmas wish is will.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Keep hope alive.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
So that's what I would like for the holidays, is
more Christmas wish. Actually, let's spend Christmas together going through
the files.

Speaker 6 (53:33):
Lord.

Speaker 4 (53:35):
Uh, So, I have an update the fugitive in Virginia,
the high school football coach Travis Turner, who is now
wanted on a combined ten counts of child pornography and
solicitation charges of trying to solicit minors. The US Marshals
have now joined the search for this fugitive.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
So, as a reminder, Travis Turner is accused of those
ten charges. Going to get well, we'll see the forty
six year old high school football coach. He's from Big
Stone Gap, Virginia. He vanished into the woods with a
gun back on November twentieth, and this was as police

(54:20):
planned to question him. They did not go there to
arrest him on the twentieth, however, that is the day
that Travis Turner, the fugitive went missing. It was several
days later when police obtained an arrest warrant for the
multiple child pornography and solicitation charges. And so that is
what shifted the case into a multi agency fugitive search.

(54:46):
And then I gotta be honest, I'm gonna say this
because it's kind of how everything is being reported, but
I find it a very strange framing. But Travis Turner
was a really good coach. His team continues to be undefeated.
And I mentioned that because his son, Travis Turner, the fugitive,

(55:10):
His twenty three year old son apparently was at a
recent high school game, and he said that the wind
was bittersweet, of course, because his father is now missing
and a fugitive. So Travis Turner's twenty three year old
son and again went to this game, and apparently people

(55:33):
were surrounding him and offering hugs and condolences, and apparently
the son of this fugitive, his name is Bailey Turner,
was fighting back tears because you know, right now, his
father's nowhere to be found.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
He's in the woods with a gun, was last he
is seen.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
Travis Turner's wife is publicly standing by him, and as
is the hearner of family's attorneys. So the search continues. Yeah,
marshals will find him.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
We know in firsthand.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
I was just going to say, those marshals don't play.
I wonder if I mean, this is very difficult. I
can't even imagine what the family is going through. Imagine
finding out that your husband is being accused of these
heinous things. Imagine as a twenty three year old man
that your father is being accused of these heinous things.
Takes a lot of courage and bravery. And I'm glad

(56:33):
he went to the game and was too welcomed. Right,
says a lot about the community, because obviously he had
no part in this. But what a mess to leave
behind for your children. I wonder if the wife is
so publicly saying that she stands by her man and
that this is so untrue in an effort to coerce

(56:53):
her husband back in too, maybe potentially to custody.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
Well, I mean, he's probably if she is, I wouldn't
blame her, because he's probably safer in custody than he
is on the streets.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, right, And there's no way he's surviving out there
in a great sweatsuit in.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
A shotgun in Virginia.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Either he's been taken in by somebody, or he's, you know,
been taken by the by the weather.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
There's no way he's just wandering, no, of course not.
We're like in a den somewhere, like.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
It's blistering snow in so many parts of the country.
I'm not particularly sure about Virginia. But it's freezing out there.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
He wasn't even wearing a coat, right.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
Yeah, the US Marshals, they have offered a monetary reward
and if anyone does see him.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
This fugitive Travis Turner is six foot three, He weighs
about two hundred and thirty five pounds. He has brown hair,
brown eyes. Again, he is likely armed with a gun
and anyone who sees him should keep themselves safe and
is asked to contact nine to one one for the
US Marshal.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
It's the reward. How much is the reward? The reward
is for five thousand dollars.

Speaker 6 (58:06):
That doesn't seem like a large amount enough.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
I mean, I don't it's enough.

Speaker 8 (58:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
That leads me to believe they think he's alive.

Speaker 6 (58:16):
Do you?

Speaker 5 (58:16):
And I makes you think because there's a reward like
if he was if he was passed away, if the
if the if the authorities thought he was dead, he's
not going to be walking around for people to see
him to call him in. And you know what I mean,
I don't know. I could be wrong about it. I
hope I'm right about it.

Speaker 6 (58:35):
I hope you're right.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
What were you going to say?

Speaker 6 (58:37):
No, No, I just I don't know why. I feel
like it's a little like the Travis decory. That's totally
different Travis. But but like I think he might have
ended his own life or done something at this point in.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Shape, right, I think you're probably right, Taha, just it.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
You know, I think there's tells that you can get
as an investor, you know, looking at an investigation from
the outside, right, And one of the tells for me
is are they offering in the world war? And if
they're offering a reward, it tells it's just a it's
like a tell for me. As part of the investigation,
they have reason to believe he might be alive.

Speaker 6 (59:10):
Okay, well let's hope, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
But innocent until proven guilty.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
There also hasn't been any any real assertion by anyone
in law enforcement as to who the minor was that
he was allegedly soliciting. Of course, the question is was
it a student, was it a neighbor, Who was this
young person?

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Or you know, what was all the porn? Was it
kitty porn?

Speaker 2 (59:36):
You know, all those specifics have not apparently been released
to the public.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
No, but it is important to note on that Stephanie
that In fact, the police and school officials they have
publicly not disclosed whether any of the alleged victims are
connected to Union High School, because of course that would
be the question.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
So there has been zero statement either way. So we'll see. Yeah,
should we go.

Speaker 6 (01:00:06):
To Yeah, do we want to? I think well, maybe
we just go to a talk back and then we'll
talk about some of the other cases that we have
in the that are coming up. But Adam, we have
enough time for one.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Good morning True crime Gigi here.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
I just wanted to say, I hope you all had
an amazing Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Getting caught up out walking this morning. Thirty two degrees here,
amazing to me. Degree to keep up the good work,
love y'all. Yeah, she's a mind reader.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Yeah, Gigi, can you make sure you keep an eye
out because there is somebody potentially on the loose in
that area. It's thirty two degrees, by the way, shout
out to you for the thirty two year thirty two
degree walk. I blew mine off this morning because my
excuse was that it was too cold.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Really, what is it where you are? It was like
sixteen degrees sixth morning one?

Speaker 6 (01:01:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Are you kidding me? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
No, no, no, no, it's very very real and my
blood is very very thin, you know, aliform live in.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I was like, oh, shoot, this is cold.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
You need some long Johns, some layer.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
Ay and Detroit always makes fun of me because I'm like,
it's six sixty degrees.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
It's cold, and they're like, excuse me, it's funny. Sixty
degrees is cold. Like, I'm with you on that. People
in the East coat I.

Speaker 6 (01:01:38):
Think it's ridiculous when we say that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
I mean, because of course they do, yeah, but it is.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
I'm like you, I'm freezing. I have a thermals and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Look at me. I'm bundled up. I swear a coat
that's to my ankles. Oh my goodness, I've seen it.
It's true. It's like it's like a walking duvet. Well, listen,
stick around.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
We are going to get into some of the details
of the missing six year old Aton Pates. Prosecutors are
gearing up for another trial, and we also have more
information on Rebecca Park. Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. My voice is a little
I got a little scratch of my voice. We had
a couple giggles during the preade cspy a little raspy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
So here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney and Boddy, Sam and
Adam and Taha also in the studio keeping us in check.
We obviously want to hear from you if you want
to jump in and join the combo or just leave
us a talk back body, go ahead, more on this,
go ahead, hit us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Rebecca Park. So, Rebecca Park.

Speaker 5 (01:02:55):
She's a twenty two year old pregnant woman from boone
again And as we know we talked about extensively. Her
body was found, and when her body was found, the
baby was not in her belly. And there's been a
couple of arrests that just happened yesterday since we covered this, Okay,

(01:03:15):
So I'm going to get into all the arrests because
there's quite a few, Okay. The mother and the biological
mother and the stepfather of Northern Michigan woman Rebecca Park.
They've been arrested following the discovery of Rebecca Park's body
in the Manistee National Forest. Rebecca Park was thirty eight

(01:03:35):
weeks pregnant when she disappeared on November three. Remember she
was at her biological mother's house. And her biological mother's
name is Courtney, and Courtney said, Rebecca got into a
black car with tinted windows and said, sorry, mom, this
is something I have to do, and she just vanished.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Remember, right, I mean so pregnant. Right.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
So her body was found just recently on the twenty
fifth of November, and this, you know, widened. The investigation
is authorities search for answers about her death and the
whereabouts of the baby. Where is the baby? Okay, So again,
there's many arrests in this. Okay, I'm gonna go over
them right now. Courtney Barthur Leomew. She is the biological

(01:04:24):
mother of Rebecca Park.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
Her husband, Brad Bartholomew, is a registered sex offender and
he has been arrested.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Okay, so those two have been arrested.

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
Previously, her biological sister, Kimberly Park was also arrested, and
her fiance and the baby's daddy, Richard Fowler, who is
also a registered sex offender, was arrested. Now let's good,
let's get into the charges. Okay, Kimberly Park, the sister
of victim Rebecca Park. Okay, Kimberly Park Her charges are

(01:05:00):
tampering with evidence in a criminal case, lying to police
officers during a violent crime investigation, and filing a false
report of a felony. All right, Richard Fowler, he is
the baby daddy and the fiance of the victim, Rebecca Park,
two counts of delivering meth.

Speaker 6 (01:05:22):
Ugh.

Speaker 5 (01:05:22):
Now the other two the biological mother, Courtney Bartholomew, we
don't know her charges yet, and her husband, Brad Bartholomew,
we don't know his charges yet either, because their arraement
was scheduled today and that's where we would learn about
these charges, but it got rescheduled for tomorrow. So why
we don't Why we don't one hundred percent no. But

(01:05:44):
the scuttle butt, you know, the scuttle butt on the
streets set is.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
That it was something to do with their lawyers. But
we don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
But we don't know, the biggest question is where's the baby?
Where's the Where is this little baby? But I will
say last night when we were on there, remember I
was telling you guys, this is coming in right now. Brad,
the stepfather of victim Rebucka. Park, was on property as
they were searching. So they were searching last night Courtney's home,

(01:06:17):
the biological mother in Brad's home, and Brad was like
showing them things. So scuttle butt, there's more scuttle But
do you guys like the scuttle butt or now? Okay,
So Brad is being housed in a different jail than
the other three. So the scuttle butt is that he's

(01:06:37):
talking and for his protection basically somewhere else. And because
he was with police like kind of pointing things out
and whatnot, well, they were boxing things up and you know,
putting them in their veins for evidence collection. Brad was
with them. So that's the scuttle button. But we don't know,
and we won't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
This looks like real messy, Like as I look at
their photos too, this is like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
Sunshots do not look Yeah, they live.

Speaker 5 (01:07:12):
For those who don't know, this is northern Michigan, just
north of Lake Cadillac.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Shout out to my dad, by the way, he loves
that area up there.

Speaker 5 (01:07:21):
I'm from Michigan and anyway, so they it's just north
of Cadillac. It's a very small community called Boone, Michigan,
very very small community and they've been just rocked by
this horrible situation just completely rocked. There's a lot of
good people up there, but this is not this is

(01:07:42):
not like a reflection on this community, right, He's remember
when I proposed the story a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
It's like, we've got to start talking about this. This
is wild.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Everyone is a sex offender and mess dealer and like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
So it's I mean, you have to be on math
if you're going to actually kill.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Your own daughter allegedly allegedly allegedly, or cover it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Up or have any knowledge of it one way or
the other, or let your married sex offending husband participate
in some demented way one with a sister.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
This is her beloved sister.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Why is she not trying to find the answers for
her disappearance of it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Camp?

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
Well, listen, they're all they and I'm not I'm not
even joking when I say this. They're all sleeping with
each other, and they're all related somehow, like second cousins,
cousins and whatnot. And this gets messy very quickly. And
this is just going to be a case We're going
to have to continue to follow it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Wait, hold up on that, because I don't want to
graze over that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Yeah, I'm serious.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
So because I thought something you said yesterday really stuck
with me, even as I was trying to fall asleep.
I put it because I was stuck on Rebecca Park's mother. So,
Rebecca Park has a mom, Courtney, as you mentioned, who
has now been arrested today. So she was having a
little Shenanigans with Rebecca Park's baby daddy, correct years ago.

(01:09:08):
So they were born pre Rebecca. Oh so Rebecca mom's boyfriend.
The scuttle butt. The scuttle butt, you guys, the scuttle
I can't get over the world. The scuttle butt.

Speaker 5 (01:09:19):
Is that Kimberly the sister who's also been arrested and
baby daddy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Richard, we're having a little real time real time. I
want you all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
To pull up this man's photo, Richard, how is he pulling.

Speaker 6 (01:09:37):
All of that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Well, look at that or something like that is not
Bradley Cooper.

Speaker 5 (01:09:43):
But if you picture like a myth head, that's right. Yeah,
And he's a registered sex offender with an extensive history.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
Oh god, little girls, little.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Are their other children in the mix that we know of,
not that they are.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
So Rebecca has an adopted mom.

Speaker 5 (01:10:06):
Like a day, she was really legitimately adopted, and she
was adopted with her sister Kimberly and raised outside of
Courtney and whatnot her. That's the goodness, the mother and
the fat like that her adoptive family have possession or
a custody of Kimberly's children and Rebecca's other children as well.

(01:10:27):
The victim, Rebecca, she has all So the grandmother has
custody of all the kids.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Thank oh God, goodness, goodness. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:10:36):
So this is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio where we're
talk in true crime all the time. We were just
talking about victim Rebecca park in this horrible case. But
Courtney tell us about what's going on. Oh wait, no,
do we have a talk back about Let's go to that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Oh bring Hi. This is Tamera from New Jersey.

Speaker 12 (01:10:57):
I have a question about the Aton Pate case. I
heard that Pedro Hernandez, who was convicted of his murder,
is getting a new trial or can possibly be released.
I have no idea what's going on with that. Hopefully
you can clarify or maybe it's a question for Jared.

(01:11:18):
Thanks so much, love your show, and happy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
That was so nice.

Speaker 6 (01:11:22):
That was nice.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Oh, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
And yeah, a lot of information in this very old case.
So Manhattan prosecutors have announced that they will retry accused
kidnapper and killer Pedro Hernandez, and this would be for
the third time. The case is the nineteen seventy nine

(01:11:45):
disappearance and subsequent killing of Aton Pates, who was six
years old at the time. So the case was overturned
this summer due to improper jury instructions, so it had
nothing evidentiary. But Eton Pates was a six year old

(01:12:09):
boy in Soho that's part of Manhattan, and back in
May of nineteen seventy nine, he was walking alone on
to a school bus for the very first time, and
the six year old's disappearance sparked a massive search and
actually ended up transforming national awareness around missing children.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
So this poor six.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
Year old boy, Aton Pates, his father was a photographer,
and a picture that was taken by his father ended
up becoming the first face on a milk carton. If
anyone is old enough to remember that it was around
for a while that when kids went missing, their faces
were literally printed on milk containers.

Speaker 6 (01:12:53):
I remember that it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
Was very important and it was very effective.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
I think, if I'm not mistaken, I wonder why that
doesn't happen anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
So they I actually can tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
So, the milk carton idea began back in nineteen eighty four,
so this is five years after Aton Pates went missing,
and at the time, local dairies began printing photos of
missing kids to help find them, and this idea was
spread nationwide through the National Child Safety Council, and the

(01:13:24):
program faded in the nineties when families stopped buying cartons,
when schools switched to plastic jugs, and when Amber Alert,
the internet and national databases.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Became far more effective.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
So it yeah, so it seems like they served their
purpose for as long as they could and then it
was overstep for those reasons. And this was also around
the time that the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children was founded, which was in nineteen eighty four. So

(01:13:59):
back quickly to why this case is being overturned.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
Prosecutors confirmed just.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Last week that again they're going to try the accused
killer and the kidnapper and killer Pedro Hernandez on the
second degree murder and first degree kidnapping charges. And what
they're saying it's not double jeopardy because admissible evidence remains sufficient.

Speaker 6 (01:14:27):
Right, So the third time it is is that what
I understood you said, this will be the third time
this is happening.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Now, that is correct.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
So the first trial was a hung jury and then
he was found guilty in the second trial. And the details,
it seems like it's complicated on all sides. Because Pedro Hernandez, okay,

(01:14:58):
so he's accused, was convicted of killing and murdering. He's
sixty four years old right now, he remains incarcerated despite
the fact that his conviction was overturned. Now, Pedro Hernandez's
defense team publicly has expressed disappointment and reiterated their belief
that the accused killer, Pedro Hernandez, is innocent, and they

(01:15:21):
pledged to give a stronger defense and a new trial.
That is not unusual, of course for a defense to say,
but the circumstances are strange. Again, it was May of
seventy nine when six year old Aton Pats disappeared, and
then in twenty twelve, which is thirty three years after

(01:15:43):
the fact, accused killer Pedro Hernandez, a relative of his
offered up a tip and then yeah, police came to
him and Hernandez confessed during a lengthy interrogation, and this
was before being read his Miranda rights.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Luigi, exactly, are we back on a technicality yet again?

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
Well, yeah, so that happened back in twenty twelve. And
what Hernandez said in the confession He described luring the
six year old age on Pats into a basement with
the promise of soda, allegedly killing him at disposing of
the body in a bag. But the defense attorney argues

(01:16:30):
that Hernandez is severely mentally ill, has a low IQ,
and may not even be able to distinguish truth from fantasy,
so they claim his confession was coerced. So there's a
lot of a lot of layers to this one. But again,
the reason why it will be tried now for a

(01:16:50):
third time is because of insufficient jury.

Speaker 5 (01:16:55):
I remember, I remember when he went missing because we
were literally the same age in nineteen seventy nine. I
was six and my mom, do you guys remember, I mean,
I don't know if you guys are born back then,
but I might be the oldest one here. But this
was like a massive deal. This was a really really
big deal. And this was, like you said, Courtney, his
first solo trip to the bus. I was working on

(01:17:18):
the same trips to kindergarten walking in Detroit to or suburb,
but walking to school, and it was just a terrifying
time for parents with kids that age like it was.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
But then my mom eventually was like a just go
buy yourself, you know, on the loose. Yeah, it was
a scary time. It was horrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
And think about how effective the milk or milk carton
were talk about making your message from your mess for
his family. Yet it's taken decades for justice to actually happen.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
Right Well, stick around because we have more to dig into.
Keep it right here on True Crampton.

Speaker 5 (01:18:00):
We have one more story that's already blowing up our talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Keep it right here, True Grime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. My goodness this night is
it's kind of flying by Mondays are always so stacked.
Why don't you agree, ladies, super stick It's been a
doozy of a day, dozy of a day with still
more to come. The talkbacks keep those coming for sure.

(01:18:34):
In fact, let's go to one right now.

Speaker 13 (01:18:36):
This is Aba from La I just had to pause
a documentary part way through, because I really think we
should watch it. It's on Netflix, The Carmen Family Death.
It's a short movie. I really suggest it for a watch.
I'm very curious to know what you think.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
Amen, I'm in. I'm in absolutely.

Speaker 6 (01:19:00):
That was our true crime and children pick and we
talked about watching it over the holidays. But are you
guys going to be upset if I say we should
hold off and give us a little more time.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
Okay, I know I just needed a true crime break
over the break. I know I've been to a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Of things, but it wasn't anything surrounding murder.

Speaker 5 (01:19:19):
Let me guess it was on Bravo.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
By the way, those Mormon Housewives got me all sucked
in after Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
Have any of you been watching Dancing with the Stars
this season? It was really good, even if you're not
a fan.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
I would watch some of the highlights from the later
episodes and Dancing with the Stars.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
It was kind of inspiring.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
And one of the contestants is on a show called
The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives show.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
It's on Hulu and it's new for me.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Anyway, she went very far and it became very controversial,
and she's a very good dancer. It became controversial kind
of oddly because on the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives show,
which is on Hulu. And this is not crime related,
Are you sure you what I'm going to finish this?

Speaker 6 (01:20:10):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Anyway, she apparently said on the reality show, well, I
guess if everyone's going to try out for Dancing with
the Stars, I'll come back this season to be on
this show, because that would maybe get her on the
Dancing with the Stars show because a couple of them
tried out.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Well, she's using it as like a ladder.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Yeah, and like the other Mormon wives weren't feeling it.
The mom uh what do they call themselves, mom talks
or something? They have mom talks mom talks anyway. Yeah, yeah,
I'm just catching up. I've only watched like sixty four
episodes at this point. There's three seasons, and I started
at season three kind of midway, just because I wanted

(01:20:52):
to see who the you know the answer was that
was getting all this play and and then I got
sucked in and I went back in time in the
closets watch it. Yeah, it's kind of husbands are always
watching Sam and I are both.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
We're both fans over here. We love each other because
of it too. Sam and Adam and I can hang.

Speaker 5 (01:21:16):
I cannot imagine Sam sitting down and watching what do you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
Mean with his reality shows?

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
I have?

Speaker 11 (01:21:22):
I decided to like watch it, and it's pretty It's
pretty interesting, didn't sa juicy?

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
They know the assignment they came to play.

Speaker 11 (01:21:31):
Especially some of these other girls, they're like, oh my gosh,
you're diabolical.

Speaker 5 (01:21:36):
Really okay, I'm in I'm into that. I I'm kind
of I got kind of addicted to what's the one
with the boat that Courtney and I watch?

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:21:47):
Yeah, yeah, Indy and I watch that. We binged it
like hardcore, and I got really into that. So I
could see myself like really getting sucked into this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
Oh yeah, just totally check it out. One of them,
remember there was that, like Swingers scandal. It kind of
hit the press at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
Wait a minute, huh. One of the girls from that
isn't it it's it's a little it's a but yeah.
The web is Tiri And now I think she's the bachelorette.
That's right, that is right? Are you am I breaking
news right now? Adams?

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Yeah, she's the new bachelorette and wells from the bachelorette
who's also the bartender, is not happy about it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Does say about it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
He does not feel like it's a representation of who
the bachelorette should be, given that she was a part
of the Mormon swing scandal.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
That was a big scandal and it happened to break
right when the show was premiering, if I remember correct.

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
Yeah, yeah, Jen Affleck, does that ring a bell?

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
This woman going around saying that she's Ben Affleck's cousin
and say this.

Speaker 3 (01:22:53):
Two of us. She really wasn't really, it is all.

Speaker 4 (01:22:56):
She was saying, every you know, what would you like
for breakfast?

Speaker 3 (01:23:00):
Ben Affleck's cousin?

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
But she landed herself on a Dunkin Donuts commercial with
Ben Affleck.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Funny there, I can say. Ben Affleck seems like the best.
Do you guys like Ben Afflex I like that love.

Speaker 4 (01:23:15):
I mean he's brooding and dark and so of course
from Boston.

Speaker 5 (01:23:19):
No hard, no, no, I just don't have any feelings
about Ben aff I mean I like him as an actor,
but I'm not like Affleck.

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
I have many feelings about him.

Speaker 6 (01:23:28):
Yeah, I've been dying to ask you are you planning
to set some time aside to watch the P Diddy?

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
Oh yeah, midnight tonight? Baby? Are you tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
You listen you show very very late, and I have
a hard time falling asleep, and then I stir about
all of the cases that we discuss. So I do
think it drops tonight, and it's only in an hour
after the show raps, so chances are I'll give it
a little sample. I saw an interview with fifty Cent
and the director to a fifty Cent obviously a long

(01:24:01):
time rival of Ditty's and is the executive producer of it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
I think it's like four parts or something.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
So either he has some like interesting backstory and it's
not just more of what we already know, which it
very well could be. I would have to assume he
has some other access points.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
He probably has some more insight right right into something.
But from what I remember, he was clowning on P
Diddy quite a bit on Twitter, and then he kind
of led up a little bit right started when he's
sentencing when it well, I remember after sentencing he was
like lol, and like he was kind of laying back

(01:24:41):
into him a little bit on Twitter. I was like,
oh my goodness. And now there's this documentary, so we'll
have to see.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:24:46):
I'm gonna wait for your Yeah, I have a feeling
it's not going to hold my attention. Really, I bet
you it will.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
I bet you it will. Well, I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
I think fifty cent is saying according to the interview
I watched with him and Robert Roberts this morning on GMA,
so my sourcing just for Flay, he basically said like
he had to speak out because he didn't want Like
I'm paraphrasing, but I think the question was, did you
feel like, you know, Ditty's behavior was a reflection generally
speaking on the hip hop community and fifty do I say,

(01:25:22):
fifty I feel like I'm saying this so wrong, Fitty Fitty,
It's so pathetic, so Fitty, So Fitty said like he
had to kind of speak out because it was, you know,
not a representation of how he feels.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
And how the hip hop community as a whole. Well,
should Night things differently. We were recovering Diddy.

Speaker 5 (01:25:45):
Should Knight was speaking out in prison and saying hip
hop's got a change, not good to women.

Speaker 4 (01:25:50):
Remember, well, Ditty is absolutely not a fan at least
according to his spokesperson in a statement, they said, quote
Netflix is so called documentary is a shameful peace and
quote confirms that Netflix relied on stolen footage that was
never authorized for release.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
So this is ditty, spokesperson comment.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Just because it's stole, throwing up a lawsuit, it's not real.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
Okay, yeah, but.

Speaker 6 (01:26:21):
The footage. Now I'm a little more intrigued.

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
So we's okay. So what are we gonna do?

Speaker 5 (01:26:25):
Are we gonna are we going to do the talkback
documentary or are we going to do ditty?

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
Well, I could just give you a green light red
light tomorrow. I'll try to sample it before the show tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
I will.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
I won't obviously get through four episodes I have of
course I have work, but I probably will sneak in
a little tonight or before work tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (01:26:43):
So at tomorrow we'll decide I'm going to watch watch
the Carmen one.

Speaker 6 (01:26:50):
I'm going to I'm going to do I think this is.

Speaker 5 (01:26:52):
I mean, this is like you know, I tease this
a little bit. We have gotten a lot of talkbacks
about this documentary.

Speaker 6 (01:26:58):
Particular fourth one where someone suggested we watch it, So
there's something there.

Speaker 3 (01:27:02):
There's something there. I just say we start with that
for sure. It's very short. From what I understand, it's
kind of like the Aleen one. It was very short.

Speaker 6 (01:27:13):
Yeah. I like those, So okay, we'll circle back to it,
and maybe tomorrow will decide when we have the deep
conversation about it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
I'm down. I'm down.

Speaker 6 (01:27:21):
That'll be a good one. The holidays have kept us busy,
so we needed that extra breathing. We did also to
get away from a little true crime. Like you said,
I I did movies. I didn't watch you know, reality shows.
I did Wicked.

Speaker 3 (01:27:33):
I played it for good things. I want to go
see your dress up for good? Did I dress up
for Wicked for good? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:27:39):
Well this is I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
I but I didn't really dress up.

Speaker 6 (01:27:43):
But I guess you didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
Just pictures. I know.

Speaker 6 (01:27:48):
It was just a green sweater. It wasn't like like you.

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
Know, my friend Michelle went up and she wore a wig,
a red wig. She looked beautiful and.

Speaker 6 (01:27:58):
And I thought I was foolish but just wearing that
color until I see people coming in in full gowns
and I'm like, oh my god, people people grow really
go all out?

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
Was it I?

Speaker 6 (01:28:10):
Liked it, but I didn't like it as much as
the first because I think the first one, like I
didn't expect it to be good, and I wound up
crying like three times, and this one, the expectations.

Speaker 5 (01:28:18):
Were so talk about Ariana Grande and the.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
Kind of and I'm a fan of them both individually.
She's the outsiders so clear. I love her. Man there
is so strange.

Speaker 6 (01:28:36):
It's very hands.

Speaker 3 (01:28:39):
And then nails and.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Then over over touching, and it's just I'm so weird out,
Like they just put them in seats next to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
It's bizarre. They like the taste each other, Yeah, that
on each other. Yeah, like I it's just it's bizarre.

Speaker 5 (01:28:57):
Like she's like adjusting her necklace and it doesn't even
need to just like, what is going on with this?

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
I think it's just sisterhood.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
Sisterhood, sisterhood, And that's aarm strong.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
If we were all the three of us were doing
an interview together, would we would not be like sister
each other each other? Even you guys, I would. I
would fix body's necklace and I would touch on you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
You would, But if it wasn't messed up, you Woulding
to imagine if I was just groping on you.

Speaker 6 (01:29:27):
As you're talking, like what's wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
And I like them both.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
To imagine Drew Barrymore as the interviewee and a close
talker also.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Like gets so close and was brawling on people today
a nightmare.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
Speaking of pause off, she really like Drew Barrymore. It's
been uncomfortably close.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
And your shoes off and what are you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Here? I don't I did not mean to only with friends.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
I feel like you can't be on everybody's lap, every guest.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
It's so bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
And I love Drew Barrymore and I wish we were
all friends, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
I don't know. So you're saying not to see Wicked,
How you're gonna no?

Speaker 10 (01:30:16):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:30:19):
And every person I've said this out loud to is
angry with me. I'm gonna get hate mail like I
did with you know, Taylor Swift and and out Burgers.
But I didn't love it nearly as much as the
rest of the world did. But it's definitely worth seeing.
And Okay, I think it's supposed to be a bit
more dramatic, and so I think I went in with
a different mindset. There's less of the fun musical things
that that were.

Speaker 5 (01:30:39):
First, I saw the wi the Wizard of Oz at
the sphere.

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
I want to do that so bad.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
Oh my god, you guys. I okay, So there's like
many different scenes. We all grew up with wizards.

Speaker 7 (01:30:52):
Yah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
Yeah, And my mom in particular, loved the Wizard of
the Oz.

Speaker 5 (01:30:57):
So I bought shiny I bought the cutest red cowboy
boots you had ever seen, and they're sparkly. And I
got myself a cute red purse and I wore a
black dress and I went and saw it and I
cried the entire time because it just made me emotional.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
It's so good. Yeah, that's so good. Is it still there?
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:31:17):
But I didn't go this weekend, but I went recently
and it was it was an experience. I mean, there's
like when the when the tornado comes, there's real wind,
like you can feel the wind, and then they've got
like these leaves flying around and like hitting you in
the face. It's like an immersive experience. But I will

(01:31:38):
tell you, climbing up the stairs to my seat, because
I got the cheap seats, like all the way.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
Up top climbing, I got like a little Vertigo.

Speaker 5 (01:31:48):
In your little slippers in my red cowboard.

Speaker 6 (01:31:53):
Walk with the red purse.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
So that's my Wizdory and given.

Speaker 5 (01:31:57):
My little red purse and my coboy.

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
It was fun.

Speaker 5 (01:32:01):
It was If you're in Vegas and it is playing,
I definitely recommend it, like it is such a good
it's such a good show. And then I understand more
stuff is coming to I think no doubt is coming
to them.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
So excited. I'm definitely going to that.

Speaker 6 (01:32:18):
She would sounds so good?

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
Doesn't it sound good?

Speaker 6 (01:32:21):
Stephanie reminds me of Gwen Stefani sometimes she does.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
A little bit you have. Stephanie's a little bit like
Michelle Pfeiffer a little bit so Chelsea Handler a little
biased at heart, but I like, yeah, all three if
all three of them had a child, I think it
just like you that would be and are going to eat?

(01:32:44):
I agree, I love are those two in love?

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
Like I feel like, hey, I have celebrated. But I
thought she was with the red hair guy from Sponge with.

Speaker 6 (01:32:53):
The red hair. I think they had they had some
sort of odd term that they described we're non binary
something that like it was something cute, the being friends,
but oh.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
Same sex, non lesbian, platonic partner.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
Something of that nature. Yet that's the stubtle butt on
the street.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
But hashtag scuttle butt sounds like a hoodie. By the way,
we have some sweatshirts coming on via iHeart. We're gonna
have some swag slash merch report. So maybe we'll have
like a giveaway or something throughout the month for the holidays.

Speaker 5 (01:33:25):
That's my that's the that's the hope. The best talkback
or something makes me love that.

Speaker 6 (01:33:30):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:32):
By the way, if you're in Virginia, leave us a
talk back. Listen. Know what the weather is like daily.

Speaker 2 (01:33:37):
So guys, we're gonna have a lot of All of
these cases that we're covering tonight are ongoing all week,
and listen, we know that there's a lot more developments
happening tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:33:45):
I promise to report back.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
If the ditty doc is worth a watch, please tune
in tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
It's Tuesday. Have a great one and we will be
with you tomorrow night. Stay safe By