Missing Baby in Michigan, an Influencer Murder, and a Major Turn in the d4vd Case

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight at iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Sunday, November thirtieth, and we
have a stacked night of headlines. We hope you had
a fantastic Thanksgiving Day weekend. There is so much to uncover,
so I'm going to talk very very quickly. Bear with me.
Authorities have actually found the body of that missing Michigan

(00:39):
pregnant woman, Rebecca Park, but the story around her and
what happened to her body and her baby continues. Plus
the family of eighteen year old Anna Kepner who lost
her life on that cruise. Her family is begging for answers,
and we're told there could be somebody in custody soon
and later the show. Also those new developments in the

(01:02):
Celeste Revis case. Is it possible that David the popstar
will be arrested this week?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
And that high school football teacher.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Not sure if you all have been following that one,
but he mysteriously disappeared after some harrowing, terrible allegation, so
we'll be unpacking that as well. Plus, we have Joseph
Scott Morgan, our favorite forensics expert and host of the
hit podcast Body Bags with us.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
He'll be doing a little crime lab.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Section with us, where we'll be talking about ballistics. I'm
Stephanie Leidecker here of course, with my two favorite ladies,
Courtney Armstrong and body move in, and we have Taha
and Adam in the control room and guys, we hope
you had a wonderful holiday.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Did you? I did?

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Did you?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I did? I actually caught up on just a lot
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
It was a very uneventful, worky kind of get through
that pile kind of a weekend.

Speaker 4 (01:59):
And I feel so good for it. My pile was
the laundry pile. Yeah, exciting exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
You know, sometimes the holidays get me a little tripped up.
Either I feel so excited or I feel a little blue,
and this was.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
A lot of all of it.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, I had all those emotions as well.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, same here. Yeah, it was good.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
I mean, turkey, my oven broke in the middle of
preparing Thanksgiving dinner, so that was exciting. Thankfully, the turkey
was done. But yeah, then the oven literally just quit working,
and so everything else had to be figured out between,
like the toaster, the air fry to the stovetop.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
But we got it on and it was fabulous. Oh good,
And now you need to get a new oven.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
We're seeing we it's gonna I know, it's so annoying.
They're so expensive and I don't want one.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah, but we'll say maybe a repair man, yeah maybe Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:52):
Are the sales still going on?

Speaker 7 (02:53):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (02:54):
I know.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
So anyway, that was the most eventful for sure. That
was that was surprising.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
I would be surprised too, especially goodness.

Speaker 6 (03:05):
I did a lazy version. I went to a group
of friends that had a friend Sera, and all I
had to do was bring the alcohol. So I was
the bellow the ball.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
I bought my raining pepsi, my traditional rain dings and pepsi,
and it was good. I had a great the food
was delicious. My friend Tifany did a great job.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I love Adam. What about you?

Speaker 8 (03:24):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I had a real low key Thanksgiving.

Speaker 9 (03:26):
I had friends giving scattered throughout the week because I'm
a very popular person.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
But I can see oh right, right right, you may
not believe me. But the show too, you know, yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, no, it was nice. I was just grateful to
have some time off of work too.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah, it was nice. It was really nice.

Speaker 10 (03:45):
All right.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well, I missed your faces and I'm so glad we're
back together. In fact, if anyone here wants to join
the conversation eight at eight to three, one crime, or
you can leave us a talk back.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
In fact, we have one right now.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Hey, do you guys see that?

Speaker 11 (04:02):
What do you guys think of?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It?

Speaker 11 (04:03):
So sad?

Speaker 4 (04:05):
So I could barely hear that. But what I did
hear was did we hear about the update in the
Rebecca Park case? It's so sad?

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Is that right? Yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
So yeah, Unfortunately, Rebecca Rebecca has been found and not
in there's no good news. Authorities have found the body
of pregnant twenty two year old Michigan woman Rebecca Park,
although her baby remains unlocated. Remember she was nine months.
Her due date was December I think I'm sorry, November two.

(04:37):
It was right after she had gone missing, like a
couple of days. So victim Rebecca Park's fiance his name
is Richard Lee Fowler, and her biological sister Kimberly Park
have been arrested on unrelated felony charges. Though it's very

(04:57):
interesting this all happened on the same day they found
Rebecca's body in the morning, and Kimberly, her sister, and Richard,
her fiance, who's also allegedly the baby's daddy, were both arrested.
So initially it looked like, oh my gosh, they must
have had something to do with this. But apparently it's
on unrelated charges. But I still think there's maybe something

(05:21):
there that we just don't come on.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, there's no way those are now related. Is that
even possible?

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well maybe because the charges are very strange. Okay, So
Kimberly's charges are I'm sorry, Richard's charges. He is the
father of the baby that's a missing right now. Okay,
the baby's missing. When they found Rebecca, the baby had
been removed.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
So Richard, who's the baby's father and also her fiance,
he is on charges two. He is in on charges
of two counts of methamphetamine distribution. So if convicted of that,
is going to jail for the rest of his life.
I mean that's a massive charge that he you know,
will will have the sister is her biological sister. Her

(06:11):
name is Kimberly Park and she isn't in prison for
or in jail right now for The charges are tampering
with evidence and lying to police. So I don't know,
if listen, there's something there, but we don't know. But
what I do know, and what's happening right now, real time,

(06:32):
right this moment, I'm getting updates as we were going
live on the show. Brad, who is Kimberly, I'm sorry,
not Kimberly. Rebecca the victim, okay, the pregnant woman who
went missing and found dead. Her mother his name is Courtney.
That's her biological mother, Okay. Her husband's name is Brad,

(06:54):
so it's Rebecca's stepdad. He has been at the sheriff's
office today and is now leading the Sheriff's department in Cadillac, Michigan,
in that area in Michigan to an area near the
two Track road where that phone was found initially and
very close to where Rebecca's body was found. So the

(07:14):
scuttle butt right now, this is allegedly, allegedly allegedly this
is a scuttle butt, is that he is singing and
showing the police some information, and the police have been
at the home today Courtney and Brad again the victims mother,
biological mother, and stepdad at their home and they've taken many,
many things from the home, including a burn barrel.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Can I just make sure I get all of it?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
So, yeah, it's it's you know, it's a WYB Rebecca
Park who's pregnant in twenty two years old.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
She has a mother, a stepfather.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Then she has a boyfriend who she's having a baby with,
and a sister and.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
It gets more complicated.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Go ahead, I was gonna say, so, the sister's been
arrested for lying to police and you know, maybe tamper
with evidence. Do we know if that's related to Rebecca's death. Yeah,
that's the case that she's been tampering.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
That's what I believe.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
We don't know for sure, we do believe so, yes,
because the judge, Okay, the judge gave Kimberly the sister,
a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars cash bond and
said that she is basically a danger to the community.
So I do we do believe that it's related.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Then the father or the soon to be father of
this right, we should talk about the forensics with Joseph
when he's here. The how this baby is no longer
in its mother.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
We shouldn't definitely do that. It's sickening.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
So there's a baby daddy, and that baby daddy's been
arrested on meth charges and if convicted, he's looking at
life completely secretly unrelated.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
But I think probably with him, what happened was they
were searching the home that they lived in and found
probably evidence that he was dealing. He is a registered
sex offender and he as a pretty ad violent passed
and so I think they were searching the home and
found probably something that related to him.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Going wow, and then so sweet Rebecca also has a
mother and then a stepfather, And just to track that,
authorities have been in and out of their home even
as we speak, and materials have been.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Removed from their home moment.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
And it seems like this circle is not only small,
but the walls are closing in on this particular circle,
and right now they're circling the area to a very
specific location where Rebecca's phone was found.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Correct, which is right near the biological mother's home, which
is also right near where Rebecca was found as well.
So what do we think, does anybody else series? Yes?

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Okay, So when Rebecca went missing, Courtney her mother said that,
you know, she had come over to get like an
inheritance check or some cash from an inheritance, like two
thousand dollars, and that a black car pull up and
Rebecca got into the car saying this is something I
have to do. Well, that was shady to begin with,
and clearly that didn't happen, right, it did, never happened.

(10:10):
And so I think, listen, this is all alleged. I
think all of them are involved, all of them. Goodness, Well,
you have to understand Courtney, her mother, the victim's mother.
Courtney was also at one time in a relationship with
Richard baby Daddy who her daughter is now engaged, was
engaged to and now sex offender. Yeah, well, listen, we're

(10:34):
gonna keep We're gonna keep updated on this. This is
true crime tonight. Give us a call at eighty to
eight thirty one crime or hit us on the talkbacks
on the iHeartRadio app. What do you think? Where is
this baby? Give us a call and let us know.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Courtney.

Speaker 5 (10:47):
Okay, so we're gonna move to a different story. Austrian
beauty influencer. It's a woman named Stephanie Piper. She's thirty
one years old and was found dead in a forest
in Slovenia. Allegedly she was strangled by her ex boyfriend.
So this beauty influencer, Stephanie Piper. She went missing November

(11:08):
twenty third. Relatives and colleagues alerted authorities when she failed
to appear for a scheduled modeling shoot, and her unnamed
ex boyfriend has been arrested and extradited to Austria. And
this was after he allegedly led police to the victim,
Stephanie Piper's body, which was hidden in a suitcase in

(11:31):
the woods.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
In a suitcase, again, you don't just like fold up
into a suitcase.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
So likely she had been you know, dismembered, I assume.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
Or it was a lot I actually I have no
information on that, but certainly there are suitcases or Duffel bags.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
That's true, big enough over.

Speaker 6 (11:53):
To large pieces that yeah. And also we're not one
hundred percent sure of how she might be a smaller girl,
so we don't know her stats just yet.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
So good luck finding a suitcase to fit me in
and meet a woman. I mean, this is horrendous. I mean,
Joseph can break some of that down. If you look
at a photograph of her, she's just the most stunning,
most beautiful girl you've ever seen in the world.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, she really is.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
And here are the details of what led up to
that time, and there's a decent amount of time stamped information.
So on November twenty third, the victim, Stephanie Piper, she
returned home to her apartment in Austria, and this was
after she went to a Christmas party. She left with
a friend in a taxi fine. That night, the victim,

(12:42):
Stephanie Piper sent a WhatsApp message to a friend and said, Hey,
I've arrived home safely. That, however, was followed up by
another message and she expressed concern that Stephanie Piper thought
someone might be in her starewell and she was scared.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Good god, Yeah, terrifying.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
So the night of the twenty third of November, the
morning of the twenty fourth, the victim, Stephanie Piper's neighbors
reported hearing an argument between the makeup artist and beauty
influencer Stephanie and also saw the victim's ex boyfriend presence. Yeah,

(13:27):
and Then, shortly after this argument was heard, witnesses say
that the ex boyfriend of the victim, Stephanie Piper, was
seen leaving the apartment with some kind of a rug
on his shoulder.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Oh gods, so this isn't looking great so far.

Speaker 6 (13:45):
Rug on his shoulder, like as though like a body
might have been rolled up in it or something, you think,
or what you know.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
That's where my mind certainly jumps too, but we can't
say that specifically. However, the now deceased Stephanie Piper, her
family and colleagues, they were just crazed, and again they
did the absolute right thing and reported her immediately.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
And the excuse me.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
When the police got to the apartment and found the
ex boyfriend of the victim there, he claimed at the
time that he was simply looking after the victim's dog.
But that's when police noticed that there was some blood
on the door.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yeah. So this, however, was not enough for an arrest.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
But then, you know, I don't know if Austrian or
Slovenian law is sure different than American. However, surveillance camera
footage then revealed that the victim's ex boyfriend was seen
driving across the Slovenian border and back to Austria that

(14:58):
same afternoon. The countrys small and border each other. So
Veni is particularly small. I've been there, and you can
drive back and forth in an hour, Like an hour, right,
it's like the size of Rhode Island. So that's where
that's where it lands. The ex boyfriend of the victim

(15:18):
then tried to douse his car allegedly to yeah, allegedly
to cover up evidence.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Oh my, we should talk to Joseph about that too.

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Yeah, So we'll continue this with Joseph later. And then
after the break, a high school coach is missing after
being accused of a heinous crime. We've got that and
more true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Body move in.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
We hope you guys had a wonderful thing Thanksgiving, because look,
we have Joseph Scott Morgan, our favorite forensics expert and
host of the hit podcast Body Bags. If you have
not listened to it, please do three episodes a week.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
He's such a rock star of forensics.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
And we're so happy you're with us, Joseph, did you
have a good Thanksgiving?

Speaker 7 (16:18):
I did.

Speaker 11 (16:19):
I was just telling you guys, I'm recovering from trip
to fan hangover right now and hangover of grand babies
running all over my house. Job.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
It's exhausting. Yeah, exhausting. Well, hopefully we'll all sleep well tonight. So, Joseph,
we've been talking about some really difficult cases. So we're
so happy you're here. But first let's go to a
talk back.

Speaker 10 (16:45):
Hi, my name is will Uh and I heard about
influencer girl, the influencer girl that was strangled by her
boyfriend in Europe. My question is, when someone is strangled,
what are the key forensic signs you look for to
confirm it? Okay, thank you, good question.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
That's a great question. And just to catch up anyone
who's just joining us, what that talkback?

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Who boy? You are keeping it current?

Speaker 5 (17:15):
What that talkback was referring to was Austrian beauty influencer
thirty one year old Stephanie Piper. She was found dead
in a forest in Slovenia and allegedly she was strangled
by her ex boyfriend.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
She had gone missing.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
Parents put up a big search and the ex boyfriend
has been arrested in this case and her body was
found hidden.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
In a suitcase in the woods.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
So what are back to the talk back, What are
the signs that someone looks for for strangulation Joseph.

Speaker 11 (17:51):
Yeah, it's an excellent question, and thank you for it.
There's a lot to be learned because we've got a
variety of structures in the neck. You think, you know
the everybody's heard of the highway bone. We want to
know if that's certainly fractured, but it's really high up
in the neck. You do see it associated with manual
strangulations and also the laynix, the kind of cartilaginous body

(18:16):
that sits in the middle line of our neck that
can be crushed, and of course that includes the airway
and your ability to uptake oxygen and then internally also
we have all of the various muscle structures you'll here
refer to as what are called strap muscles STRP and
they're kind of interlaced in the neck. It's a very

(18:39):
interesting structure. And what we look for in there like
little focal areas of hemorrhage. Now those areas of hemorrhage
translate also into the eyes, particularly with PETIKII, and that
is where the blood flow is so compromised by the vessels.
We think of the the juggler vein as well as

(19:03):
the crotted artery in the neck. And if that's squeeze,
just think about squeezing a hose pipe and pressure bills, right,
And so those little vessels burst. So there's a litany
of things that you look for in structures of the
neck and we have to be very very careful when
we dissect those What.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Is a hemorrhage exactly just in Layman's terms.

Speaker 11 (19:26):
Yeah, so you know when we were in school, we
learned about the capillary beds, right, you know, you have
the arterials and the venuols and their all kind of interlaced.
They're very tiny. They're meant to move blood, not store blood.
And so particularly when you've got a tremendous amount of
pressure in there, and so those little focal areas of
hemorrhage arise from those little vessels bursting and it leaches

(19:51):
out into the underlying muscle and the soft tissue and
you don't get those, you know, they just don't spontaneously happen.
Here's an interesting little aside. Did you know that women
that are giving birth will actually present with ocular PETIQI
because of the strain international birth. And here's a little

(20:13):
bit more disgusting. But you'll also see it with people
that have chronic bowel issues like constipation. They'll blow out
little vessels in their eyes as well, But primarily in
our field, they're associated with manual strangulation.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
I had another question about this case, Joseph, about the
Stephanie Piper, the beauty influencer's death. So before she was
led by her ex boyfriend, now in custody and allegedly
strangled by him, this ex boyfriend did what I would
consider a very odd thing. So between the borders of

(20:53):
Austria and Slovenia, this unnamed ex boyfriend how doused his
car with flammable liquid and the theory is that he
did that to help get rid of evidence, but he
then went into the casino to get help putting the
fire out. Just an odd choices all around. But how

(21:13):
much you know? If I wanted to cover up a
crime and light a fire, am I in the clear?
I've destroyed all the evidence.

Speaker 11 (21:22):
No, it's my opinion. Some people will differ from this,
I submit to you.

Speaker 7 (21:27):
Yeah, you do.

Speaker 11 (21:29):
De stroy certain fragile elements. Think about trace evidence. Okay,
you know fibers, those sorts of things, you are destroying it,
and yeah, you can destroy blood. However, you are creating
another category of evidence when you do this, when you
make this choice. And you know, if a fire is
started with a source like an accelerant, and you know,

(21:52):
in Europe they call it petrol, okay, but gasoline here
in America. If you apply gasoline to the surface, that
is not fuel. We think of gases fuel for our vehicles,
but that's not fuel. That's an accelerant. So the fuel
in this case would be the vehicle. And vehicles can

(22:13):
burn pretty well. However, it's not like you've got cord
wood that you're piling onto a fire and you keep
the fire rolling. It's got a Every fire has a
terminal event, But vehicles don't make great sources of fuel
in order to sustain a fire. You know, some of
the things we need to sustain fire are uninhibited oxygen

(22:35):
access to oxygen, We have to have a fuel source,
we have to have heat, all of that sort of thing,
and heat is actually a byproduct of that fire. So
you're creating other evidence. So if you have an accelerant
that's used, we can track down the type of accelerant
that was used. We can also source where the fire started. Okay,

(22:57):
So you would normally think, well, the fire because how
many people that we know of or just our general experience,
you drive down the road and there's a car fully
involved in fire and you see it on the side
of the road. Many times it's emanating from under the hood,
and fires generally starting the engine. Fires don't start in
the back seats of cars, right, and so you know,

(23:20):
you have to pinpoint and most of the time, here's
a little insight most of the time. Most of the time,
particularly when it comes to structure fires, the more destruction
you have in the area, there's a higher likelihood that's
where the flame started or the ignition source was applied
at that location.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
This guy wasn't even trying, Like he literally wasn't even
I mean, you don't leave a suitcase in the middle
of the forest with a dead body in it and
think nobody's going to find it.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
So, I mean, it's just blows your mind.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Now there's two lives completely destroyed, right, terrible.

Speaker 11 (23:57):
Yeah, And I would submit to you that that se
suitcase also is a massive piece of information because suitcases. Look,
all you have to do is roll into lax or
Atlanta Airport and you look at the carousel. How many
different types of suitcases are there? Suitcases are unique to
the owners, right, so that suitcase is a conveyance for

(24:18):
the body. We would want to end cases where I've
worked where no pun intended, where a body has been
encased in a suitcase. You'll see how many times we
can use that word. We want to know the origin
of that suitcase. Who's the manufacturer, what lot number did
it come off of at the manufacturer? Can we source
it back to where it was purchased when it was purchased,

(24:40):
because a lot of people that make the decision to
use a suitcase will go out and purchase a suitcase
specifically for that. They don't just say, hey, let me
see what I've got in a closet. You know, Kimmy
and I have got tons of suitcases around the house,
you know, And so not that we're going to dispose
of any bodies or anything. However, you know, if people

(25:01):
will run out, what can I do to get rid
of a body? Well, there's your first big clue. So
you want to be able to track down the suitcase.
Suitcase is also not good because it protects evidence. It's
an encasement you're holding on to trace the evidence.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
Right, you're just joining us. We've been talking about the
death of Australian I almost said Australian Courtney, you cursed me,
Austrian beauty influencer Stephanie Piper, who was Yeah, sound a.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Little scratchy, You sound a little bit scratchy.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
I can jump in is yeah, don't.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
It's like a little it's like a little she has
a little mouse in her microphone.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I don't know what's as that's getting like sordid.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
We are talking about the influencer whose body was just horrendously,
horrendously found in a suitcase. If you have any thoughts
on that, please join the convo. But also there's this
other terrifying, horrible case about Rebecca Park Joseph that I
know you've been following so closely, the young Michigan woman
who was pregnant twenty two years old, whose body was

(26:06):
discovered although her baby had I don't even know how
to say this without grossing everybody out. Please trigger alert
on this Thanksgiving weekend her baby was not with.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
Her body taken baby whose baby was taken?

Speaker 3 (26:23):
But was it?

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I don't even know that we have the stomachs
to hear how, but what.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
Do you think?

Speaker 11 (26:31):
So well, yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step
on anybody there. So yeah, there's been a couple of
cases where in euro babies have been taken. And forgive me,
I know we've got such brilliant fans out there in
the true Crown community. I know that someone will remember

(26:53):
this case because I was completely disgusted by it. It
was something it happened in the dakotas I believe, and
there have been other ones too. And if you can
just imagine, you've got an individual who may or may
not have I'll just talk in generalities here. They take
viable babies, you know, bies, Babies are viable or you know,

(27:17):
in the latter port portion of their gestations, so you
start to get in that third trimester and babies can
become viable money.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
And she was only missing for a couple of days
before her due date.

Speaker 11 (27:30):
Right, and so she's well, you know, she's approaching the
grand date, right, and so this baby would be viable
unless there's some kind of underlying medical stuff that we
don't know about.

Speaker 7 (27:40):
However, the.

Speaker 11 (27:44):
Trick is, if you're going to I don't know how
to say this, if you're going to deliver a child,
you have to do it quickly. And there have been
cases where children have been delivered after the mother has
passed on. It's like an immediate event.

Speaker 7 (28:04):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (28:04):
There have been also events where and this is quite horrible,
where the mother is.

Speaker 7 (28:10):
Still alive where this takes place. Uh.

Speaker 11 (28:13):
And then what are you going to do to protect
the child? Because you know, a newborn is one of
the most fragile, fragile creatures on the face of the planet.
You have to protect this precious little angel. So when
you think about that, what are you going to do?
And we can find evidence of what happened, that's the
most important thing with with mama's remains.

Speaker 7 (28:33):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (28:34):
And that's important because we do an extensive exam.

Speaker 8 (28:37):
At the at the autopsy suite, would they be able
to tell that, Joseph if and I don't mean to
be graphic, but would they be able to tell if
the baby survives from at Rebecca?

Speaker 11 (28:50):
Well, okay, here here's here's the thing we've got. We've
got a mother who has uh, that's absent a child,
and so it would be hard to know if the
baby has survived to this point. I prayed that the
child has. However, if there is some type of methodology

(29:14):
that they used other than her just spontaneously delivering badgeally,
I think that it would be very difficult to determine
if the child in fact was live following some kind
of traumatic delivery. And if I'm not mistaken, her remains

(29:36):
were found sometime after she was last known missing. I
forgive me, I can't remember the daby.

Speaker 10 (29:44):
Well.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Is it possible that she died while in childbirth just
naturally and you know the body, the baby was delivered
and in a panicked moment, everybody around her, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Story from the.

Speaker 11 (30:00):
Family, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And that is possible. And
some of the things we're going to be looking for
at autopsy. I want to know because anybody that has
gone through a birth been pressing. I've been present for
all of my precious children being born. One of the
things that you're looking for, you know, you want to
know if the placenta has been delivered. You want to

(30:22):
know if there's a bilical cord there, if the body
is intact. That's mama's body. We can lurk, we can
actually do a bit of research relative to hormonal changes
that have taken place. That they're kind of a company,
a company of birth and so you know, a lot

(30:43):
of data to sif through. And it's complicated because we
were talking about a mama that was found sometime down
range following the last time she was actually seen alive.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
Right, and it is my understanding from the searchers who
found her, because they've been on social media that it
was not a vaginal birth, that the baby was actually
taken from her.

Speaker 11 (31:01):
Yeah, and it's really horrible, and there would be evidence
of that even in a state of decomposition.

Speaker 7 (31:07):
That we could appreciate. Yeah, and they.

Speaker 11 (31:09):
Will be able to describe the trauma that she endured.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
And listen, we're going to try to shift things up
a little bit because those are very difficult stories now
that this next crime lab is not. But we're gonna
switch gears a little bit and change up the energy.
So we have Joseph Scott Morgan, our most favorite forensics
expert in host of the hit podcast body Bags please
check it out. He's going to give us a dissertation

(31:34):
because he's also a professor of forensics.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
I don't know if you all know this.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
So he's going to give us a little bit of
a dissertation about gunshot wounds and we're going to call
it a crime lab featuring Joseph Scott Morgan talking about
gunshot wounds. So Joseph and if anybody wants to join live,
call us eight eight eight three one Crime or you
can leave us a talk back about any thing forensics

(32:01):
related for Joseph, and he's always happy to answer.

Speaker 11 (32:07):
Thanks for having me, guys, and welcome. Your hands up
and I'll recognize you accordingly. Yes, probably the single biggest
question I get in the realm of death investigation as
a relative to methodology is going to be firearms related

(32:27):
to us. And the nature of firearms are fascinating, particularly
from a scientific standpoint, because they fall under a general
category called ballistics, and ballistics is a subdivision of physics.
So you think about major areas of science that we
study in the natural sciences. We think about biology and

(32:49):
chemistry and physics, and so we have internal ballistics and
external ballistics. How the firearm actually works internally and then
the external effects of the projectile traveling traveling through the air. Okay,
So for us as forensic scientists, one of the things

(33:11):
that we're interested in, it all goes back to the
principle that's called individualization. Can we take a projectile, we
don't call them bullets, we call them projectiles. Can you
take a projectile and tie it back to a specific
weapon platform, and not just any weapon platform. If we're

(33:31):
talking about a nine millimeters pistol or a five point
five to six rifle, we want to know the exact
weapon within there. That's where we come up with. You know,
you'll hear terms thrown around like ballistic fingerprint and all
those sorts of things. But some of the major areas
that we look at when we're talking about death investigation

(33:52):
are going to be range of fire we think about,
we think about trajectories, which is some thing that goes
into positionality, and then we also think about gunshot residue,
you know where, and all of these are part and
parcel and it's not strictly physics. You know, you start

(34:14):
to get into the composition of propellant, which other people
if people say gunpowder, what that actually is is propellant
and the composition the chemical composition. So when we swab
someone's hands, for instance, we swab a body, we're actually checking.
And you hear the term GSR thrown around a lot

(34:34):
on these TV shows. It's gunshot residue. So we're looking
for things like lead, barium, antimony, which are the chemical
components that are there. We're searching for those and their distribution.
Like on the hands of the dead, we'll actually look
at the webbing. If you'll look at the space between
your thumb and your index finger, that webbing right there.

(34:58):
You want to know if they've grabbed a weapon when
it's been discharge. You also, if you have a perpetrator,
you'll look at their hands and you'll swap that quickly
before they have a chance to clean their hands. So
probably what we deal with the most and the morgue
is going to be range of fire, because if we
can get an idea about range of fire, Like, how.

Speaker 7 (35:21):
Do any of you.

Speaker 11 (35:22):
Guys know what the three primary categories of a range
of fire are?

Speaker 5 (35:30):
No, I know three categories, Like now we.

Speaker 11 (35:34):
Get actually four, there's actually four, but we have we
have what's referred to as contact or press contact. You
think about a weapon that's actually touching the skin, okay,
And we have a close range, which you know, the
muscle of the weapon. When I say muslem, i'm talking
about the opening of the barrel is you know, several

(35:57):
inches away, just well a few inches away. Then we
have what's called intermediate, which you can get out to
about some people. And there's an ongoing argument here because
every weapon is different. Some people will say that intermediate
starts at eighteen inches and goes out to about thirty six.
And the reason they're basing that on is the unburned

(36:19):
debried that deposits on the body. And so if you
think about a garden hose, as a garden hose sprays
and kind of sprays wide, the further away you are
the wider that pattern. If you think about a fire,
I'm talking about shotguns, I'm just talking about a single
projectile that's traveling through the air, because it's not just

(36:40):
the projectile coming out at the end of the barrel,
it's all that schmutz that's inside of the barrel. If
somebody hasn't clean gun, you have grease that's actually in there.
You have unburned powder, you have dirt, and that's deposited
on the body. As well, so the further the spread,
the further the spread, the greater the distance of the

(37:02):
muzzle to where it terminates that bullet terminates and cavitates
the body.

Speaker 7 (37:06):
And then.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
From this gun on my forehead and my belly, you're
probably pretty far away, right, Like the spread of those
items can determine how far the suspect was.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Okay, yeah, you mean.

Speaker 11 (37:22):
And obviously it's the physical relationship. So the further you
move away, the wider the distribution. If you get there
and there's no distribution, we can conclude that this is
an indeterminate range because once you get out past about
thirty six inches, all of that, I'll give you an
experiment to do at home. I've got homework, so you will.

(37:45):
If you will, take a little bit of talcum powder
and put it in your hand and go to your bathroom. Okay,
go to your bathroom. Don't do it in the dark.
To turn on the lights. Look at the mirror. Okay,
look at the mirror and take take that talcum powder
and stand about two inches away from your mirror. It

(38:05):
doesn't take a lot blow on it like that, and
you'll see that pattern kind of deposit on surface. Now
back up another twelve inches, do it again and then
gets far away from the mirror and do it one
more time. And what happens is the powder itself is
not very aerodynamic. It just kind of floats like snow

(38:26):
to the ground. But the projectile, the lead core projectiles
traveling through the air and it strikes. And so you know,
like with President Kennedy, when we think about his assassination,
that was an indeterminate range. But what you could see
on President Kennedy's entrance wound is there is a little
ring around the entrance wound and it's a friction twist

(38:50):
that happens on the skin. It's kind of like if
you've ever had a brother and a sister or a
brother's sister they grabbed your wrist and they twisted them
in two different directions like that and friction burn that
you get right there. The skin is being torqued. So
the projectile, by virtue is the rifling is spinning at
a high rate of speed. It twists the skin. But
that's the only marker you have. You can't judge distance

(39:12):
with that, and so kind of a fascinating thing. And
I guess you know, when we're looking at this as well,
we begin to think about, well, where was the shooter
in relation to the victim, And this is kind of
hard to do sometimes, so we begin to hear you
hear us, You hear us doing things like pulling trajectories.

(39:34):
They'll say that term where that we come out with
our little laser lights, and in the morgue we actually
use we actually use uh trajectory rods where we'll take
these rods and we will place them into the projectile
defects and gently place them in there. And I've seen
I've seen bodies.

Speaker 7 (39:54):
So bullet ridden.

Speaker 11 (39:56):
You said, I wasn't going to use that term projectile ridden.
Where we put in uh, we will actually put in
uh trajectory rods into the body. The body will look
like a porcupine because there's so many details where it's
kind of sticking out, and you get an you get
an appreciation because shooting doesn't just happen in a vacuum.

(40:16):
You know, people don't stand still from one another, and
so they can twist, they can turn, you can there's
multiple axes that your body turns on the perpetrator is turning,
and yet it happens in the twinkling of an eye.
But you have this real dynamic event. So we're trying
to understand after the fact and the more what is

(40:38):
the body going to tell us? Is it from above
to below, is it from less to right, is it
from front to back? You know those sort of things.
And with that scientific information, you can blow somebody's alibi.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Oh interesting.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
Listen if you're just joining us here, we are with
e forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and we are learning
about gunshot wounds and what can be found out. If
you have any questions for Joseph, give us a call
eighty to eighty three to one Crime. So Joseph, on
on that topic, can you tell if someone indeed does

(41:13):
have multiple gunshot wounds? Are you able to tell which
can first?

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Second? Third?

Speaker 11 (41:20):
Now see how quickly?

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Okay?

Speaker 11 (41:23):
Yeah, no, no, no no, and even with stab wounds, I.

Speaker 7 (41:30):
Would okay, this is this is what I would say.

Speaker 11 (41:34):
If anybody tells you, they can tell you that they're
lying because they're not there to see it. Now, there
are certain unique circumstances.

Speaker 7 (41:45):
Okay.

Speaker 11 (41:45):
If you might have an eyewitness said they saw a
fine pink miss you know, emanate from somebody's head after
they heard the first report of a weapon and then
they're shot multiple other times. Maybe you can draw that
can clue. However, if you're just looking at a body
in the morgue and the body arives, you have the

(42:06):
body laid out on the table, you've got multiple defects
in the body, you understand. I use that term too.
I don't say gunshot wound most of the time because
do you know that there are things out there that
I've encountered that actually imitates so called gunshot wounds. We
had a problem with the homeless population in Atlanta for

(42:28):
a long time where they were breaking off pieces of
rebar and they would wrap they would wrap duct tape
around one end of it to create a handle, and
they would file the tip of the rebar down and
use it as like a shank or a shie and
put multiple holes in a body and guess what they
look like that the person had been shot multiple times

(42:49):
because they're perfectly circular, and all gunshot wounds are not
perfectly circular. Again, that goes back to the position that
you're in. You can get these kind that are kind
of a liptoid in shape. You can have what are
called keyhole injuries where the projectile will pass through an
intermediate target kind of flip on its end and hit

(43:11):
the person broadside almost And you know, you see all
manner of things when it comes that you can get
fragmented gunshot wounds where you have or defects where it'll
pass through an intermediate target like a piece of glass
or a piece of wood. And now you're not just
dealing with one solid projectile. You've got these little satellites

(43:32):
that blast off of a off of a projectile, a
single projectile, and it's launching towards the body. And we
haven't even talked about shotguns. You know, shotguns are a
completely different category. They're not rifled, they're smooth bore, and
shotguns are harder to track down because they don't have

(43:52):
the ballistic fingerprint on them that a standard projectile would.
And so they're they're much they are. Yeah, and again
they come in multiple different types of of of of platforms.
You can get bird shot, which is like I said,

(44:15):
with small gun small game. Then you've got bug shot,
which is used to shoot bucks with and each here's
something interesting with buckshot. Buckshot dependent upon the gauge of
the of the round or the caliber. Caliber is kind

(44:39):
of a weird word to use with buckshot rounds, But
did you know that you can have a round of
buck shots that's loaded with say nine projectiles. That's the
equivalent of getting shot a single time with nine to
thirty two caliber round. That's why it's so deadly because

(44:59):
it creates multiple, multiple defects in the body. Can you
imagine being a trauma surgeon and you've got somebody who's
been blasted one time with shotgun with buckshot, and you've
got multiple tracks and they're having to do microsurgery to
top all these vessels and repair organs. That's why shotguns
can be very devastating.

Speaker 6 (45:21):
Imagine right, There was a difference I was saying earlier,
like what would be the one misconception? Like I watched
a lot of films and TV shows, Like, what's the
one misconception that people have from you know, television shows
and movies about gunshot moons? Is there something that.

Speaker 11 (45:39):
That everybody that everybody dies instantaneously? I think that's one
of the things. And if they how quickly they die
is depended upon depended upon the anatomical location of around
If they're shot in the head, there's a high probability
they're going to drop. One of the graphic gunshot wound

(46:02):
things that's ever been put on film. Is there's one
scene in Saving Private RD, and it's not in the
beach landing. This is where I can't remember this kid's
name that played the role. He plays the medic and
he is gut shot. He shot in the liver and
he says the blood is dark, which is actually kind
of accurate, and he lingers. They have to give him morphine.

(46:25):
And he shot a single Tom in the abdomen and
he lingered forward Tom and that was where the mouths
are around and.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
Oh my gosh, Joseph, thank you, thank you so much
for joining us. As always, anyone who wants more of
Professor Joseph Scott Morgan can find him on his incredible
podcast Body Bags and stick with us after the breaks
lest Revus David Updates.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. We hope you had a
fantastic Thanksgiving weekend and we want to make sure that
you are prepped for your week ahead. I'm Stephanieleidecker here
with Courtney Armstrong and Boddy Movin. Hey, Big thanks to
Joseph Scott Morgan for joining us in the last hour.

(47:21):
We always love his Crime Lab and if you've missed
any of the show, it is no problem at all.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
You could always catch us right after as.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
A podcast, So please listen up and we want to
hear from you as well. Eight eight eight three one
Crime More stories to get to, ladies. So, first off,
Anna Kepner, the eighteen year old who lost her love
lost her life while a board a cruise ship. She
was cruising with her family, and her family really wants

(47:51):
answers Courtney take it away.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Yeah, So we've been hearing a lot about this eighteen
year old deceased victim, Anna Kepner, and her father and
aunt have spoken out after Anna was indeed found dead
aboard a Carnival cruise ship. So Anna Kepner's sixteen year
old step brother is being investigated as a potential suspect

(48:15):
in her death. So eighteen year old victim Anna Kepner,
She is from Titusville, Florida, and was discovered under a
bed aboard the Carnival Horizon ship on November seventh. And
if you recall Anna Kepner, her deceased body was also
found under several life vests, and I believe a blanket.

(48:41):
The victims death certificate sites that mechanical asphyxiation by other
persons is the cause of death, so that gives us
some indication of what went on. So victim Anna Kepner,
she had been traveling on this cruise with her father,
her stepmother, her siblings, step siblings, as well as paternal grandparents.

(49:05):
And in her room she was sharing that with her
sixteen year old step brother, the suspect, as well as
her biological brother, who was I believe fourteen.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
So that is the what happened.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
And I really hope this is not true that this
stepbrother is the guy.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
I don't know what else it could be, though, I mean,
they were It's reported right Courtney, that her biological brother
and her stepbrother were in the room with her, and
then the biological brother left the room to go. I
think he went to go take pictures of the ship
and whatnot. And when he came and all three of

(49:47):
them in the room when he left. When he came back,
Anna was not there. He reported that he thought she
had just left the room, but she wasn't there. And
when they woke up in the morning she been missing
and that's when they found her. So the only thing
that could have happened was the stepbrother.

Speaker 6 (50:05):
Right, is that?

Speaker 8 (50:07):
Yes? So?

Speaker 4 (50:08):
And there's no surveillance of anybody else going into that room.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Got it correct?

Speaker 5 (50:13):
So, in fact, victim Anna Kaepner's father, Christopher Christopher Kaepner said,
I cannot say that he referencing Anna's sixteen year old
stepbrother the suspect, I cannot say that he is responsible,
but I can't decline he was the only one that
was in the room. And the FBI has an ongoing

(50:34):
investigation into which they will have to provide the evidence
to say he did do this or did.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Not do this.

Speaker 5 (50:41):
So that is recently what victim Ana Kaepner's father, Christopher
Kepner said. He also stated, I want him again, referring
to the victim sixteen year old stepbrother, I want him
to face the consequences. I will be fighting to make
sure that does happen. Additionally, victim Anna Kaepner's aunt named

(51:05):
Crystal Right, of course, she's grief stricken and she is
terribly frustrated, and she said, I know Anna fought. I
know she fought for her life, and the victim's aunt, Crystal,
has also questioned why the sixteen year old step son
has not yet been charged.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
I mean, what a.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Mess, And isn't it possible?

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I mean, there were reports early on about the sixteen
year old step brother that he was hysterical, and that
mem who was Anna Kepner's grandmother, Mema was kind of
present for some of that questioning, and that, you know,
the sixteen year old was such a mess.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
And again I'm just.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Devil's advocate here. Yeah, sure, is it possible that? Well,
first of all, is it possible that somebody else entered
the room at some point? I know there's cameras. I
would have to assume that's being covered. Is it also
possible that, you know, maybe Anna hit her head and
you know, maybe they were like, you know, play fighting
or something and something happened and she kicks her head

(52:09):
or something goes down and she dies.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
He panics.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I mean, he's sixteen years old, he has no frontal
lobes that have been fully developed yet not to make
an excuse, and rather than asking for help, he like
panics and shoves her under the bed. I know there's
no good answer here, but where is he right now?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
He's not even in custody.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
So there's all these accusations being thrown around about a
sixteen year old boy, I mean justifiably. So, I mean
I'm just again playing both sides here. He's not even
in custody, Like what is happening? Like his where is he?
And can you imagine what is going on in the
beehive of that family over Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Are they just waiting for an arrest? You know, their mourning?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Their daughter, Anna Kepner, has a mother that was not
allowed to go to the funeral and had to show
up in a disguise.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
She found out that her daughter di via Google online.

Speaker 6 (53:05):
You have to find it that way.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
The internal working family of just I was just going to.

Speaker 6 (53:08):
Say, Steph, to your point that I did think early
on it could have been an accident, but didn't they
say it was expeciation, So it might have been a
bruise on the head. But they could have been playing around.
It could have been an accident, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
It seemed like, you know, the motion that Mema made,
Not that Mema is the lead investigator, but Mima is
the grandmother of Anna Keepner, her birth grandmother who kind
of like showed it, like you.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Know, when you put somebody in a headlock.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
You know, if you're like, oh you better stop it,
I'll put you in a headlock. And boys, we'll be
boys air quotes. And you know, maybe the sixteen year
old got a little carried away and was stronger than
he thought, or she was well, you know, screaming or something.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Again, I'm not making an excuse, but.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
The ex boyfriend of Anna told reporters that he talked
to the biological brother, and again this has been reported,
but this is, you know, allegedly, and the biological brother
heard like shouting and furniture being moved around and whatnot
when he was like outside the door.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Maybe they were rough housing.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Maybe yeah, maybe I don't know.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
Well, Victim Anna Kapner's father, he consistent with Anna Kapner's grandparents.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
By the way.

Speaker 5 (54:22):
He has described the sixteen year old suspect and step
son as being just a normal kid and is just
really in disbelief. So I just say, that's what we have,
Like there are no accounts except for Anna's ex boyfriend,
But again, I who knows, you know, but you would

(54:43):
have thought you would have heard more accusations from classmates,
et cetera.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Of like, yeah, this kid was always.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
A little off right, but you know, we have the
thing has come out, and you know, we all know
that people love to come out of the woodwork when
they can jump in on a story.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
You know, the kid's sixteen years old? Is that tenth grade?
Eleventh grade?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I kind of it rips my heart out for Anna
and her family.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
They're suffering so deeply.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
And now this kid must be you know, I have
a hard time believing he had contentionally killed her.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
It might have in an accident. I just know how
you accidentally strangle somebody.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
I mean, but I do you.

Speaker 6 (55:19):
Know, wrestling around?

Speaker 4 (55:20):
Yeah, but I mean it takes a long time to
do that that way.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I just I'm
not making excuses for this.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I wanted to knock at this family photo and I'm like,
I talk about a lousy holiday for them. I mean,
we all have our stuff, right, Everybody's like, oh, that
is that that the era? Well, the holidays, And then
you think, you know how difficult it is for really
difficult it is for that family right now, for all involved,
including the step family, and what a mess their marriage.

(55:55):
What a mess that is? Now dad, step mom? Now
it's her son. And what do you do in that situation?
You stick with your kid. You probably have to stand
by your child, no matter I would imagine, doesn't probably
stand well with your with the husbandouse. Yeah, whose daughter
is dead, that's a horrifying question. But what do you

(56:17):
do in those situations?

Speaker 9 (56:21):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (56:22):
Yeah, feeling blessed to not be in any pat of
similar situation broke as it is, it's horrible and so
many ends. Well, listen, we've been talking about eighteen year
old Anna Keepner who died on a cruise ship. And
we'd love to hear your thoughts in an a three
to one crime. And in the meantime, body, what's up next?

Speaker 4 (56:45):
So a grand jury in Los Angeles has heard evidence
in the case involving the death of fourteen year old
Celeste Revas Hernandez, whose remains are found September eighth, almost
four months ago. Now, you guys, almost four months?

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Can you do that? And no actual suspect official named?

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Right, so he remains her remains were found September eighth, Again,
it was almost four months ago in the front of
that tesla owned by pop singer David David who's twenty
years old. His real name is David Anthony Burt. He saw,
you know, his career kind of just combust right and
totally disrupt after his tesla was towed from the Hollywood

(57:25):
Hills where it had been abandoned near his rental property.
The trunk was opened three days later after a foul
order was noticed and they discovered poor celest revealing fourteen
year old Celestrievus Hernandez' remains. And there's been there's been
quite a bit of information that's come out. Last week,

(57:45):
TMZ reported that the remains had been frozen right and decapitated,
and then LAPD did an article with The La Times
and said, no, they weren't, and then a TMZ said
yes they were, and then LAPD had to They were like,
they had to do a written statement, and in the

(58:07):
written statement they said, no, they weren't. She was not
frozen when she was discovered. That was the language they used.
And then just just this weekend, Harvey, our beloved Harvey
from TMZ made a video and he was like, yes
they were, and not only was she frozen, but our
sources at the Medical Examiner's office tell us that her

(58:28):
fingertips were so water logged that they couldn't even do
a fingerprint.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Yeah, there seems to be some discreptanivey. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Harvey Levin is really doubling down on this one. And
by the way, what he's asserting is that there is
some sort of an inner working conflict between the Medical
Examiner's office and the LAPD. Right, and I who's to say, right,
But it does seem like there's some sort of a
StopGate if in fact her fingers were water logged. You know,

(58:58):
that's a pretty astounding thing. And what they're suggesting is
that Celeste's body was dismembered, likely in Santa Barbara, and
that David the pop star allegedly allegedly allegedly drove to
Santa Barbara, whether by himself or with accomplices or someone solo,

(59:18):
and that they dismembered her, put her in a body,
froze her somehow, or I don't know where the freezing
took place. That's a TPD, and that that would be
the reason why her body wasn't sooner discovered. In the
front which is like slang for the front trunk of
a Tesla because you know, we just lost Joseph. We

(59:40):
should have asked him. You know, would the freezing of
a human body make it smell less quickly? It's probably
an easier way to phrase that, but you know what
I mean, if you're frozen, it.

Speaker 5 (59:51):
Would camp it would hold a comp right for the
amount of time being frozen. Absolutely, it was gone for
it was you know, she was in a trunk allegedly,
allegedly for a very long time.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
For a very long time. This this trip that you
talked about to Santa Barbara, this was just revealed as
well that the police say that they did confirm this
trip to Santa Barbara that David took in the spring.
So again, she was found in September. You know spring,
let's say spring is what March or April? Yeah, okay,
so yeah, that's quite some time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
March April May, Yeah, March April May.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
So the District Attorney's office they presented information to the
grand jury, and this is an investigative grand jury which
they can subpoena witnesses, secure evidences and recommend charges. LAPD
Deputy Chief Allen Hamilton sorry said accountability is coming and
detectives are going to get justice for Celestrivas Hernandez. Police

(01:00:47):
successfully persuaded a judge to block the Los Angeles Medical
Examiner from releasing fourteen year old Celestrevas Hernandez's autopsy, which
a court petition described as part of an investigation into murder.
So the yeah, there's some kind of internal conflict going
on in Harvey is Harvey is doubling down. So he

(01:01:08):
really is so.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
Like a dog with a bone, he is doubling down.
He's doubling down.

Speaker 5 (01:01:13):
I'm very curious when the Coroner's office was saying to
the Los Angeles place, hey, we do we want to
release all of this because normally that's very rare to
have that kind of back and forth become public. So yeah,
I'm very curious to see what is the root cause

(01:01:36):
of what's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
I don't know, but it's it's it is tantalizing, like
the secrets that that are. I think we'll know something
maybe by the end this week.

Speaker 6 (01:01:46):
I feel like I still can't get past the fact that,
like why would he put the body in his own
car and park it right down the street from his
own house like that? That part still just never has
made sense to me and if he's involved with it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
But that's but this grand jury met and he's not
been indicted. He's not been charged. David, by the way,
who is the suspect in the murder of Celestrian Resernandez.
There's been no charges, so they mustn't because the district
attorney has to present this evidence to the grand jury
and guess what, no indictment. So they must not have
the evidence they need right now to get him indicted.

Speaker 6 (01:02:23):
Got it?

Speaker 7 (01:02:23):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
We have to continue to talk about this, I have one.

Speaker 5 (01:02:26):
Oh, of course, yeah, absolutely, So we'll be continuing after
the break, as well as talking about a beloved high
school coach who has vanished into the mountains right as
disturbing charges against him surfaced.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Keep it here at True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney
and Body and you know, we're talking about this pop
star that David, the pop star case and why there
hasn't really been an arrest yet, particularly considering that there
has been an investigative grand jury at play. You know,

(01:03:12):
my prediction is that's going to heat up. But it's
pretty upsetting for one reason and one reason specifically, if
in fact, anybody is in the picture right now that
LAPD is aware of that may have hacked up a
human body fourteen years old, seventeen, you know, fourteen year
old Celestrivus Hernandez and left her in a trunk, and

(01:03:37):
that he is at large or she is at large,
or they are at large. That those people are at
large right now, you want to tell me that that's
not a danger to society?

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Why is there possibly not somebody that has been brought
into custody at this point?

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
I mean it sounds like given the fact that the
information and evidence that exist was presented to a criminal
grand jury and said what you got isn't good enough.
I think that's our answer. I think that's the answer.
They don't have They don't have enough to arrest somebody.
So it's a dangerous shore.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
But what are you going to just.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Pick people off the street and to make people feel
better and say.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Someone I just find it so hard to believe that
a young woman who has found in a car, who's
been dismembered, that there's not enough information on her human
body that could actually lead to some real investigative responses
at this point, it's just not like this was as
messy as it gets.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Yeah, well, we don't know that she was dismembered. Let's
we don't know that, correct, There's the information on that
is is sketchy. Let's just say that like some one
person says she was, another person says she wasn't. You
know what I mean. The LAPD have said no, she wasn't,
but they also said she wasn't frozen, and then Harvey

(01:04:52):
is like, yes she was. So again, we don't know,
we don't know, and we don't know what we don't
know either.

Speaker 5 (01:04:58):
The coroner has correct me if I'm wrong, has not
spoken to any of.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
This specific medical examiner.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
The medical examiner. Excuse me, so, is this.

Speaker 6 (01:05:08):
An unusual amount of time like you guys have followed
many of these cases, like this is like four months
of talks? Like is that an unusual Well.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
No, I think the talks is all back.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
We just don't know what it is because we the public,
it's been barred from the public getting notified about it.
The judge ruled that the medical examiner has to keep
you know, quiet about everything when it comes to her death.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Right now, it just seems like somebody at large right
now that's extremely dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Hills.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
I definitely agree, but you know, double jeopardy exists, and
they can't they can't jump the gun early if they
don't have the evidence right. If they do, then we're
going to have, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:05:48):
Nothing more embarrassing than to bring them in in the wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Anything with the LA, with the Los Angeles District Attorney's
history on you know, people getting off on cases and whatnot,
they're probably you know, very hesitant to jump the gun.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Well David didn't do it, then if they feel like
he's not a suspect, then his entire world tour was
canceled and his life has been ruined and he's been
dragged to the press.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Good luck getting that life back.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
I get the feeling from reading the report from the
LAPD like they have like a public affairs department, and
if you follow them on X, which I definitely recommend
you do, I get the impression from reading the statement
that they released that they really think it's David really well,

(01:06:35):
just how they were talking about we will get justice
for celest and it's just reading it, it just I
had him in mind, And.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
How did I know if that's the case, that he's
not going to bolt and completely did that of the country,
like they let this guy wander around for months and months.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Allegedly, allegedly allegedly if in fact he did.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
It, well, he's got the money, he's a flight risk,
he has tons of cash, there's no reason to stay.
It just it's it's so confusing to me. This is
a confusing one.

Speaker 6 (01:07:06):
But yeah, I think Jared spoke to that just a
little bit, that he's just a bit too recognizable right now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
And I'm sure, like, come on, if somebody wants to
put on a disguise and slip through the cracks, I
don't know. I have literally not seen any photographs of
David basically anywhere. He must be living in amazement in someplace,
because according to anyone, no one's seen him at Chipotle,
no one's seen him, you know, running a quick errand

(01:07:32):
you know, no one's seen him at the stopping shop.
There's been literally no photographs of him anywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
I haven't seen a single one, have you.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
I did look today, ahead, body, No, I did look today,
and there has been no confirmed sightings of him.

Speaker 6 (01:07:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
No, Now, I did think he went to Texas. Initially,
remember his parents got yeah exactly, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
And then but here's the thing I do think. I
think it's possible that La told him he needs to
stay put.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Yeah okay, La, Well no problem, there, no problem.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
I have unlimited resources.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
I've you know, allegedly murdered somebody and tossed them in
a car, you know, like, I know, I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Or is that like a celebrity thing, like, oh, because
it's a celebrity, I can't imagine.

Speaker 5 (01:08:20):
No, I really don't think so. And here's where I
stand is, do you feel like the twelve I believe
it's twelve people gathered for a criminal grand jury would
be indifferent twenty three people? Okay, so do you think
twenty three people would be indifferent to this deceased in
some bad way fourteen year old girl and say blithely

(01:08:44):
you don't have the evidence. I'm going to go ahead
and believe that their heads and hearts were in the
correct place and the investigators do not have enough evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Right, that's where are now. I don't need people and
he should bail.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
And then if you're David, you should be on your
first train into paradise because maybe maybe he is step
that your life sucks, you know, everybody's all over you.
You your nabob way right now or something maybe, And
that wouldn't be illegal.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
No, no, it wouldn't. So, just so everybody knows, there's
twenty three people that sit on a grand jury, fourteen
or more have to vote, you know, one way to
return an indictment. So yeah, that's how that's the numbers there,
So fourteen people at least have to say, yeah, there's
enough here to indict. And apparently that didn't happen, so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Meaning it didn't happen, therefore it won't like so that's
a done thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
We just don't have thought.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
We didn't have the answers on what the grand jury's
findings were.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
Well, we don't have the answers. I'm assuming they didn't
have enough to indict him because he's not been indicted.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
I just assumed that the holidays got in the way.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
No, that wouldn't stop this murderer indictment. Absolutely not. The
holidays do not matter. Yeah, I'm listen, this is all
just allegedly, allegedly allegedly, because there's men no indictment handed
down and he's not in cuffs, you know, waiting for
a preliminary hearing that the grand jury said, no, you
don't have enough.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
This is all just well, wait for your lawsuit, because
you've just destroyed David's life. I know the you know,
it's been insinuated that it was David plus one and
and and it happened outside of his house, and there
was a private investigator who found all this new information.
And you know, she was fourteen years old, so she
was under age. I found it also slightly strange that

(01:10:36):
if in fact there was some sort of a personal
relationship that was intimate in any way.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
As pop star.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
David's friends made this suggestion that it was that why
he wasn't brought in on charges for that, for solicitation
of a minor or some sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Just locked down.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
This investigation is going on, you know, keep him on
a leash a little bit, if that's how it's handled
from a strategy perspective, because if in fact that's accurate,
he would have been you know, again, I'm not the lawyer,
but something seems fishy to me. And then if listen,
if if he's not the guy, then boy did his

(01:11:16):
life get destroyed also, But.

Speaker 6 (01:11:19):
What a bad look to have a concert still going
on if this is happening.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
You know he had nothing to do with it, He's
like she was found in his heart's broken.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
He can't just be a on a tour. Well, if
he had.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
Nothing to do with it, he could take a moment
of silence and take a few.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Days off to pay pay his respects and say to police,
I'm here to help in any way, and I'm going
to throw some cash at a reward and every night
I'm going to honor Celeste and sing a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
Special song for her because she was such a lovely.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Person who was fourteen and I'm touring fourteen.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
It was a super fan that I was not having
a sexual relationship with.

Speaker 6 (01:11:54):
I have made Yeah, I think it just would not
look no to me, it just looks awful.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
What looks off, Well, it's you know how hard it
is to get a world tour. It's not just David.
There's so many people that were employed by this. If
he had absolutely nothing to do with it, then it
would be a really heartbreaking thing that would really require
I mean, there's many examples of world concerts where very
terrible things happened that you know, ultimately the show goes

(01:12:21):
on because money talks.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Again, I'm just giving you all sides of this. I'm
not giving you this is not my personal opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
No, I know, but you know, it's big money and
a lot of people's jobs on the line. So I
think it was a pretty clear clear indicate that there
was something fishy to it, because they wouldn't have caused
their world tour to end. Yeah, it's an unfortunate circumstance.
What a terrible, terrible thing. Okay, I think it's best

(01:12:49):
to wait.

Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
I think it's best to wait to make sure that
he's going to get indicted, and not only get indicted,
but he has to get convicted after that, right, So,
and I think it's best to wait to make sure
that you have all your evidence lined up, everything sign
sealed and delivered, and then go ahead and do a prosecution.
I think it would be jumping the gun. I think

(01:13:11):
would be horrible. And here's the thing, though, you can
indict a ham sandwich. Okay, that's like the phrase, right,
you've heard that before. The fact that he wasn't, I believe,
not indicted yet is concerning to me.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
I'll just just.

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
Because like I said, you can indict a ham sandwich people.
You know, you don't need the bar. So there's two things.
You can have a preliminary hearing where evidence is presented,
it's public, you know whatnot, and then there's a grand
jury where it's secret. Everything is sealed, there's no transcripts,
we don't get anything. A preliminary hearing, the level of
evidence has to rise to a certain level in order

(01:13:51):
to get indicted. Okay, the grand jury does not. And
remember Brian Koberger got indicted via grand jury and it
was all secret. Remember all of a sudden it was like, oh,
I got he's been indicted. So the fact that he
hasn't been indicted leads me to believe that they have
little eens.

Speaker 5 (01:14:10):
That is what I ascertain, which does seem nuts because
I can't imagine with all of the public pressure and outrage,
of which Stephanie, of course you are not alone and
everyone's all outraged for it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
But if you don't have you don't have it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:27):
What do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
I feel outraged that David's life is ruined and his
world tour was canceled if he had absolutely nothing to
do with it, and they.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Have, we don't know, nothing's to go on, don't that's even.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
More outrageous to me. Honestly, that is a slander. If
something tragic happens and you had nothing to do with it,
literally nothing, and there's literally no evidence. Obviously this tragedy happened.
You know, she was found in his car, but he
was allegedly not even in the state because he was
on tour.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
If that tracks and his career has been ended.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
This is a young man, right, and if there there
was no sexual affair or anything between them and she
was just like.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
A superable let me ask you a question, fingering, what
if they did have an affair and he still didn't
have anything to do with the murder, how do you
feel about that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Well, my feelings have nothing to do with it, although
it seems like I'm hopped up. But I would have
thought that they would have brought him in on charges
for that, to hold him strategically while figuring out the
rest of the the evidence and waiting for the toxic college.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
Don't you think that it's telling that they haven't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Yeah, it seems that it sounds to me like this
guy got a really bad maybe has a bad group
of friends, or you know, there was trouble from a distance,
and you know his life is now completely screwed. Yeah,
one way or the other, you know, and that seems unfair. Also,
you know the court of public appeal. You know, in
the court of public opinions aren't totally fair. His family's

(01:15:54):
getting swatted now, all of his money's out the window.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
There's nothing to fall back on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Anybody who ever worked on his or also out of work,
let alone poor Celeste, and nobody like yeah, thanks, but
no thanks. Poor Celeste. Her family is just desperate for answers.
She's been in a trunk for three months and they
still can't find any evidence. Like, how is it possible
that the Tesla doesn't have more information? I thought that
was the most important program in all the world. Like

(01:16:19):
the Tesla was like could practically drive itself and brush
your hair while you're driving.

Speaker 6 (01:16:24):
Like how.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
Yeah, right right, get away with any crime?

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
And a Tesla, based on what I know of Tesla's
not that I own one.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
But isn't that like the thing it's like a supercomputer.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
Yeah, it has all these cameras and if you like,
if if you just walk next to it, it records you.
You know, I see all these videos in my neighborhood.
App you know, that's like somebody keep my car. It's like,
you know, and it's always a tesla or a cyber
truck or something. You know, So it's like, you know
that has always cameras.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Yeah yeah, except for Celeste. You know, it was apparently deactivated.

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
Well I think you I think you do have to
pay for it. I think you do. I think it
is a service.

Speaker 6 (01:17:07):
Levels up that you could go and the higher levels
had the better.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
Systems, right, but still it's like, this is twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
It's hard to get on anything.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Your blueprint, your footprint, your everything, your phone prints, your
car print, I mean, come on, and blue right behind
the Chateau More Months and the Hollywood fiends were there's
also cameras everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:17:33):
Yeah yeah, I know. Listen, you're you're you're preaching to
the Quire and we know it's.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Got worked up. I'm apologizing now. She is fired. This
sweating and sleeves are rolled up and it is it's insanity,
but we just it's a it's a lack of it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:53):
I agree, it doesn't make sense, but there's there is information.
We obviously don't have access to that at some point
we'll explain what's going on. Because it's very strange. I
will grant you that ten times over. It's strange and infuriating, but.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Justice, justice for Celeste. Well, stay tuned. We've got more
to dig into. We're going to get some talkbacks in
and possibly cover this high school teacher stick around a
true Friend tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. We hope you're having an
amazing Sunday, and listen, guys, it's going to be a
strong week.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
So come on.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
First day back after a holiday break. Sometimes that can
feel overwhelming, but I'm telling you it's going to be
a good week, so let's all buckle up for it.
We've been talking a lot about David the pop star.
Will there be an arrest? It sounds like no is
what everybody seems to be saying. Listen, I thought that
about Diddy too. I thought Diddy did He was getting
a bad rap, and I felt like I was always

(01:19:03):
defending did He until I saw that video of him
beating Cassie to the ground while holding a towel with
his left hand. It was hard to unsee that and
it changed the whole picture, and we haven't seen that
with David. So I guess this is why this case
is so confusing. And of course we'll continue to follow it.
I'm sure there'll be some new developments this week. Courtney Armstrong,

(01:19:26):
what else you got for us? Any other good news?

Speaker 5 (01:19:30):
Well no, I'm not going to call this good news,
but it is news. So can meet you halfway there.
In Virginia, authorities are actively searching for a missing high
school gym teacher and football coach, Travis Turner, so he
is now considered a fugitive now. The missing forty six

(01:19:51):
year old Travis Turner disappeared on November twentieth. He left
his home with a gun and entered what we know
to be a heavily wooded mountainous area. So this coincide
with the missing football coach. Travis Turner is under investigation
for multiple charges. These charges include five counts of a

(01:20:14):
possession of child pornography and five counts of using a
computer to solicit a minor.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
And of course this is a high school football coach
right before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Meanwhile, his wife, his beloved wife, is like, we just
want him home safely. She's like telling out to the media. Please,
if you're hearing me, come home.

Speaker 3 (01:20:35):
We love you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
I mean to have somebody that devoted standing by you.
He dips right before Thanksgiving or on Thanksgiving?

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Was it just before?

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
These are the accusations before.

Speaker 6 (01:20:49):
He has a.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Family of his own, and now their lives have been
just destroyed. These last few days just horrible.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
I'm so sorry for them. It's very sad.

Speaker 5 (01:20:58):
And investigator had gone to the home of Travis Turner,
again now considered a fugitive.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Police went there.

Speaker 5 (01:21:05):
On November twentieth to speak with Travis Turner and it
was just the police allege as early parts of an
investigation and that they indeed were not seeking to him
arrest him at that time. However, five days after the
missing football coach vanished, authorities announced those ten warrants again,

(01:21:27):
five of possession of chob pornography, five of using a
computer to solicit a minor. Which is so scary, Stephanie, Yeah,
to your point. The missing coach, Travis Turner's wife, Leslie Turner,
she as soon as the twenty four hours were up,

(01:21:48):
she contacts police, says she was missing, and she's spoken out.
After the charges were filed and said that none of
the allegations are true, that Travis Turner is a good father,
a good husband. She wants him home. She knows nothing.
She repeated that several times. She doesn't know anything.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Thing, and he has kids, like for these poor children too,
and for the victims of this. If this is actually
true and he's soliciting minors.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
Interesting, So I had been told that he was tipped.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Off that the police were coming to arrest him, and
that's why he dipped.

Speaker 5 (01:22:24):
Oh, that may well be the case that tracks yeah, well,
and we know that the police had come to his
house before he left anyway, so I don't think it
was for tea. They did come to ask him, probably
some very uncomfortable question even though it was so I
don't know if a third party tipped him off. They

(01:22:45):
may well have, but that would put my back up
if police came to my home to.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
Have a chat.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Well, but you know, not to get too secretly lost
in the sauce here. But it was five days prior
to his disappearance that the police go and they do
a you know, a general talk to and a little
dry by if you will. So now he's tipped off
and freaked out. But that's not when he dips. He
waits five full days and then just like rolls out
into the woods, I think, wearing very little clothes, like

(01:23:13):
he wasn't dressed for the wilderness. He was just wearing
street clothes and carrying a gun. So that implies two things.
Either he's going out because he's just going to make
a run for it and is you know, an active
man and can pull that off, or god forbid, is
going to take his own life, or is just running
scared because he got tipped off. Like if he was

(01:23:35):
going to be very strategic about it, he would have
left pretty much right after the police went to his
house and packed a bag.

Speaker 5 (01:23:42):
Well, my understanding is that it was again on November
twentieth that the police went to his home. It was
also on November twentieth that he went missing, So it
was that same oh for him what saying like that,
So what I may have been confusing about is that
it was a five days after that fact that then

(01:24:03):
the allegations came out, right, the charge you went.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
Missing on the twentieth, and then on the twenty fifth
the police said, oh there's ten there's ten charges now
for this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
Even though he's missing.

Speaker 6 (01:24:15):
But on the twentieth is when the police came.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
As well, right, and when he disappeared.

Speaker 6 (01:24:20):
And when he disappeared, So it wasn't so the.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
Police come to his house, you know, hey, what's up
with you? You know, the first initial visit, he disappears immediately,
like immediately, which is very suss to me, Like, if
you're innocent of something, just my opinion, This is just
my opinion. If you're innocent of something, you don't run
off into the woods with the gun immediately.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
Yeah, of course don't.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Yeah, you want to stand and defend your name, and yeah,
defend yourself, my family and children and life, right to
live for and yeah, you're a pillar of society.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55):
You're a teacher. So yeah, that's very disturbing, very.

Speaker 5 (01:25:01):
I'm sure we will be following this very closely as
it unfolds, and just for anyone who might be there.
Big Stone Gap, Virginia is the town where missing football
coach Travis Turner went missing from town Appalachi. It's got
about five thousand residents. He was last seen wearing a

(01:25:22):
gray sweatshirt, sweatpants, and glasses. This is according to the
state's Missing person database and again he is considered a fugitive.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
So more on this to come as it evolves.

Speaker 5 (01:25:35):
And if you want to weigh in on this missing coach,
Travis Turner, we want to hear from you, hit us
on the talkbacks. And speaking of talkbacks, let's go ahead
and listen to one.

Speaker 12 (01:25:48):
Hi to your crime tonight. This is Sarah from Michigan,
and I just wanted to thank you for your Thanksgiving episode.

Speaker 6 (01:25:54):
I was just.

Speaker 12 (01:25:55):
Listening to it and the Andrew Phillips segment is just
monumentally important and it gave me chills along with you guys.
I really appreciate you having him on and everything that
everyone's doing. But that was a great, great, great segment.

Speaker 13 (01:26:16):
Oh yeah, I still think about I mean, yeah, I
thought that was a really good segment and a really
good program.

Speaker 4 (01:26:28):
The writers, the prisoner writers.

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
Right, it was just the prison.

Speaker 4 (01:26:34):
And you know, getting to speak with him, and he
was just so proud, you know that he was able
to like he was working in a play as a
player atouse.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
So wonderful.

Speaker 6 (01:26:46):
He's already something.

Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
Yeah, imagine being in jail for like twenty years and
you come out and there's all this new tech, you know,
and he's having to deal with a saone and like
it's like I don't know what I'm doing and I
don't know. I was really proud of him, and I
hope he'spired.

Speaker 6 (01:27:04):
It was nice to hear like how he's turned his
life around and he's doing something positive. But also like
just just he was soul and he was so wonderful
the redemption factor, but just just to hear that, like
there were little things that I took away to where
he was saying that it was his only form of
communicating with people on the outside and some of these
inmates don't have that. So it just it gave you

(01:27:25):
for Thanksgiving Day. It was just such a warm and
fuzzy feeling, like it just made you feel good hearing
all of that. And I don't know if everyone remembers.
The other half of that episode was the US Marshals.
We had William's raucous brocus. He was so good and
I still think about the whole twenty one Jump Street moment.

Speaker 4 (01:27:43):
He was so serious. Ye twenty one Jump Street and
he was so serious and we were like, ye, anyway.

Speaker 6 (01:27:52):
Serious job.

Speaker 9 (01:27:53):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
I have thought about this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
It's not because necessarily he's serious, because I could tell.

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
He had a wicked sense of humor.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Oh he does, because he's like undercover all the time.
He gives you nothing in terms of a viable cue,
like we're so expressive, like I couldn't play poker if
my life depended on it, you know, and was like.

Speaker 3 (01:28:12):
Who has a secret. I'm like, you know, it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Written all over my face, you know, he is. I
think we're all kind of that way. Well, Court, you
can hold it pretty toughly, but like he just if
you give no reactions, no nonverbal cues, and even whether
it's a giggle or something aggressive, nothing, then there's nothing
to read. And that just becomes sort of your way

(01:28:36):
of in high school when you're a full blown adult.

Speaker 6 (01:28:41):
That was crazy or then even at one point he
was saying like he had to I guess for those
not who didn't follow along. He was a US Marshall
and he had to go undercover when he was younger,
and at one point he was trying to in high
school he was doing a drug bust and he actually
do you guys remember he had to actually take care
to take the drugs. He took the drugs. I'm like,
how do you not like I would anything the bus.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
The bus didn't happen because he was too high.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
Yeah, he also like solved the Andrew Kunanan case for
Sachi's murder.

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
I did he say sniper too?

Speaker 6 (01:29:14):
The guy?

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Yeah, really wildly interesting and he was brilliant so interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:29:19):
Yeah, I really enjoyed him, even though he didn't give
us much in terms of his giggles. But that's okay
because I was very impressed with professionally.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
But that's why.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Yeah, I think they're trained seals probably give you nothing
to intentionally because I agree there's nothing to pick up on.

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
There's no micro expression too to pick up on.

Speaker 6 (01:29:43):
Yeah, I know I would be the worst. I can
tell you right now. They walk you would be the worst.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
You and I together in high school with the disastrous.

Speaker 6 (01:29:52):
They walk in with a drill. I'm like.

Speaker 3 (01:29:56):
I was undercover.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
Could you guys imagine Taha being interrogate.

Speaker 6 (01:30:04):
I would be the one that screams the loudest out
of everyone in this group. I can promise you that.
So and then pitched probably, but it's so funny. Sadly
had any more fun talkbacks because I like seeing everyone laugh.
At the end of our Thanksgiving holiday and what do
we got going on tonight.

Speaker 12 (01:30:24):
I just think it's funny that Andrew Phillips just got
released and is reacclimating to the regular world with tech technology,
and you guys put him on the spot live on
the radio on Boom or something, and I just think,
you know, you put him up to a challenge. He

(01:30:45):
did really good.

Speaker 5 (01:30:47):
Ah, he did better than I do on most days.

Speaker 6 (01:30:51):
And yeah, he's referring to it. At one point during
the yes little.

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
Text he disconnected and reconnected.

Speaker 6 (01:31:01):
Figured out how and I think he even complained about
the tech service he did. Imagine, please, we've been out
free and I still struggle with it.

Speaker 4 (01:31:10):
Yeah, he did really well. I was impressed with his
ability to overcome that the technical issue that he did have.

Speaker 9 (01:31:18):
So but yeah, listen, did you lention Sorry to interrupt you, please,
but you know, imagine I don't remember how long he
was in for, but imagine you're in from you know,
nineteen sixty to nineteen eighty or something compared to two
thousand and five twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (01:31:33):
It's, oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:31:34):
I know, it's a crazy coma to come out of
it is, Yes, I mean ament.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
Since five years.

Speaker 6 (01:31:40):
I don't think all of us use zoom in the
same way for you.

Speaker 4 (01:31:43):
Well, even the machine at McDonald's. You guys like little things, right,
the coke machine at McDonald's. It's like a robot.

Speaker 8 (01:31:50):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:31:50):
I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
I can't hate it. It actually ruins McDonald's. So does
sas for me? And why do I have to self
serve so much?

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Like the waiting in line and then I get in
another line. It's like the movie theater kind of ruins
it too, with all the self serves and the sodas
and the butter.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
It's like, what a mess.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
It's like a full crime scene by the time I
get to my seat, and it's for you know what
I mean, it is but cock, you gotta get the dampkins.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
They're under your thing. The butter's all over you. Your
SODA's spilt.

Speaker 7 (01:32:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:32:20):
I went to actually the movies on Friday. We saw
The Knives Out.

Speaker 6 (01:32:26):
Oh, I saw that.

Speaker 7 (01:32:27):
That was good.

Speaker 5 (01:32:28):
It was very darling. I loved it. Daniel Craig's amazing.
But the place I went to has a Pink's Hot
Dogs and so just yeah, when you're talking Stephanie, So
by the time you know, lights came on, I had
like the mustard the chili at the cheese from the.

Speaker 3 (01:32:43):
Hotway, because you know, it's just they don't give you
a tray. You know, you have that a little squear
about you if you're smart enough to ask for the
brown box.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
You know, like then it's like doesn't hold anything.

Speaker 4 (01:32:54):
It seems to be the only place that delivered. Do
you guys remember when Pink's delivered and it was like
it was like the first like Uber eats kind of
pink dots, right, yeah, pink Dot. Pink dots different than
pink No, you're totally right.

Speaker 3 (01:33:10):
I'm thinking I'm with.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
You, though I knew, I can't remember, and pink Dot
was the first.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
Pint was like one of the first ones.

Speaker 4 (01:33:18):
I don't know why, but pink hot dogs are really good.

Speaker 6 (01:33:22):
Okay, I just want to my bed.

Speaker 5 (01:33:24):
Yeah there for anyone who doesn't know, they're in La
staple Icon been around for a long time, one hundred
years or something something.

Speaker 4 (01:33:32):
I don't know, a long time staple, but I got
them confused. Pink Dot is like a convenience store, right,
they have like a little it's like a little seven
eleven type situation and they used to deliver I was
like so impressed by that. Back in the day, I
remember being.

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
Like, oh pink, same delivery.

Speaker 4 (01:33:47):
Now it's like whatever you know, but anyway I thought
the music it's already over.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
Okay, thank you for spending your Sunday night with us.
We're going to start this week strong. Monday, we have
a big show. Luigi Mangioni is back in court and
he wants lots of things.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
Left out of the case.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
So more on that to come. Listen Monday, let's do this.
Have a great night, everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:34:10):
Goodness

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