New Amy Bradley Leads, Missouri Serial Killers, and Talkback Tuesday

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I get
to be here every single night with Courtney Armstrong and
Body move In and the boys. We have Taha, Adam
and Sam all together in the house right now for
talkback Tuesdays. It is Tuesday, October fourteenth, and we have

(00:41):
a stacked night of talkbacks. So ladies everyone, it's kind
of my favorite night of the week because it's a
little more wild. So it's wild because we don't know.
It's a little bit more wild exactly. And everyone gets
to help make the show together. Yes, for sure exactly,
So keep your talkbacks coming. It could also call us
live if anytime eight at eight three one crime or

(01:02):
leave us a talk back. We love getting to hear
your voices. So think of it as you know, one
big kitchen table discussion and Courtney cooked as something delicious. Mm,
she wasn't me, that's for sure. Yeah, I burn water
my game happened. That's why I have to do meal prep.
I can't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
He does.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh, she's good with the meal prep. But yeah, I
don't look at me kids, but talk about today. So
let's just jump right in.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
Oh all right, if I have a question and a comment,
it Seemsley from Canada. My question is whether True Crime
and Chill is going to continue or if it's just
going to happen when the series come out that we
all want to watch. And then my comment is that
I think it'll be quite interesting when the last digital

(01:54):
print is analyzed. I think we'll learn a lot from herself,
curious to know if the pattern of David Colleen and
texting her had changed after he went on tour. Anyways,
look forward to listening to you next five.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Finley so good. She's so good to hear. She has
such good questions, I know.

Speaker 5 (02:16):
Right, So, the first question was about True Crimenhill, right,
is it a permanent feature or are we only doing
it when there's like series we want to watch? Right
and right now we're doing it like every other week
gives us like a week to watch the shows, because
some of the shows we want to watch are like
six and seven episodes, like we need to take a
month off her way, everybody sit down on we too,

(02:36):
I know. Yeah, so it's a permanent thing, I think.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I mean, I don't know. Well, there's been a little
brand confusion, just to jump in, you know, Tad, Look
did you see him right now? He's like, it's like
so stressful because it's like, what is the tonight? Is
it Wednesdays? Is it Thursdays? Are we skipping a week?
It should be consistent, and I feel like it is
a big ask to watch. It's a lot to watch
that much content in such a short period of time.

(03:02):
We want, we want everybody to be functional and going
to their jobs and such, so we agree we have
to be reasonable or we do it in episodes. It's
another opportune we can say, like let's start a series
together and we we do a weekly binge. Yeah that's
kind of fun. Yeah, that's kind of what we're doing,
isn't it.

Speaker 6 (03:21):
Yeah. It kind of has fallen that way where maybe
like every used to be once a week, and I
think early on we were like, let's do it once
a week, that'll fill the show. But there's been so
much news it's like, yeah, we don't have time, so.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I have an idea, meaning like once a week we
only watch one of the episodes of set series. So
rather than us all crash burning so quickly, this is
just a thought soft launch. I don't even know if
I like it. I already binged everything. I'm all actually
caught up.

Speaker 7 (03:49):
That's that's the only thing I worry about if we
do it one at a time, because some people overachievers
like you will go ahead and then I'll speak for myself.
I couldn't, you know, remember if I saw episode three
or four, So I feel like spoilers would be coming
left and right.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, right now?

Speaker 5 (04:09):
So right now, we're doing one every two weeks, right,
and we're just doing it on Wednesdays every other week,
and this week is death and Apartment six O three,
the Ellen Greenberg story on Hulu so relevant, so right,
and so we're going to.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Be kind of discussing it. I think the twenty second.

Speaker 6 (04:24):
Is that right now, you're correct Wednesday. The twenty second
we're going to get to that one.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
And then the second question was David, what a really
good observation Celeste digital footprint, right, and that she's going
to be interested to see was David calling her and
did the pattern of those calls change when he went
on tour or will it give some indication on you know,

(04:49):
when she went missing?

Speaker 5 (04:50):
That is such a good question. And by the really
has you know she was a runaway, right, so her
social media wasn't really in her name, right, she was
a runaway like otherwise our parents are going to be
looking on her social media. So a lot of people
are unearthing her social medias, are finding her social medias
and posting them. Usually it's usually an X that I

(05:12):
that you find these things. But yeah, people are digging
through them now. But I'm sure that we'll get the
LAPD on that as well. I'm sure they're on that already.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
You just answered my question because this entire day I
was thinking, like, how is it possible that we have
not gotten her digital footprint? How is her tesla or
you know, his tesla? You know, we just flew somebody
to the moon, but you know, or you know, we're
doing very miracle, we're doing big miracles in technology. But
at that way, can't we get the tesla to report

(05:43):
back on what happened in the front, because it does
seem as though of all cars to have such a
tragedy happen in this one would have probably the most
information and the largest footprint in terms of digital forensics,
I would assume. So I'm just surprised by that lag
of time that has gone by. Comparatively, there have been

(06:05):
huge things in the news that have been even federal
cases that we've seen as a public more information about
this one is a slow go. It's fallen onto the
category of toxicology, right, That's what we're waiting on until
this moment. It hadn't even occurred to me until body
said it. You know, it is true. As a runaway,
your digital footprint is already compromised and is now being

(06:28):
pieced together. If it was so easy, perhaps she wouldn't
be a runaway. And on top of that, underage. So
we are dealing with very unique circumstances that would make
the general public less privy to some of this information.
And that does not mean there are not very big
things happening behind the scenes. I'm actually saying this to

(06:48):
myself out loud now, and that's a.

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Good point, Like we're just not going to know about it.
This is an ongoing investigation, and LAPED is just not
going to share those kinds of that kind of information
about a minor just.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Seems like such a long time to not have such answers.
I feel for her family, you know, even for the accused.
You know, listen, he says he is innocent of this crime,
and you know, then if not him, who and what
is the story here? Where are the suspects? Who is
a person of interest? How do we not have more answers?

(07:19):
And how are we not clearing pop star David's name
if he's not at all involved, because he's getting really
associated for a very long period of time. Now that's
so hard to come back from if you're innocent, It's
like it cuts both ways.

Speaker 7 (07:35):
But also, Stephanie, you said, which is correct, there's been
lots of movement on even federal cases that are incredibly complicated,
and I think LAPD for all the reasons you stated
about seless being underage, et cetera, I think they're keeping
the fact that this is not a case.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's not a federal case, it's not a state case.
It's not a case at all.

Speaker 7 (07:53):
It's not a homicide on its head, it has not
been announced as that.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
So she did not get into the trunk by her self, right,
But that doesn't mean she was killed and put in there,
Meaning she could have died and was put in there,
which is a different crime altogether, and therefore different charges
which are far less than.

Speaker 5 (08:10):
Man's concealment of body abuse, of understurbs, those kinds of things, right,
which are misdemeanor kind of crimes in California. So, I mean,
it really depends on how she got in that trunk,
I think, and that's what we're going to.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Have to find out from Elli. You can just wait
and see, right, It's really it's complicated, and yeah, I
feel anxious for answers, and at the same time I
hear you guys, and I totally get what you're saying.
It's like handle with care as always. These are all
such sensitive topics, and even like we were discussing last
night in the Luigi case, protocol making sure every I

(08:43):
is dotted. I'm not suggesting that that was not the
case in the Luigi Manji own case, but it seems
as though his defense is saying protocolsially saying issues protocol
and you know that could be the big difference. Learning
this along the way with you also, anyway, it's great
talk back.

Speaker 7 (09:01):
Yeah, I'm really good talk I thank you as always, Ansley.
This is True Crime Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong.
I'm here with Body Movin and Stephanie Leidecker. It's Talkback Tuesday,
and we are joined by producer Taha and Sam and
Adam in the control room, which makes it a joy.
Even a bigger joy would be to hear from you.

(09:22):
So give us a call eighty eight to three one Crime.
And if you want to join in on the talkback game,
then go to your iHeart app and on the upper
right hand corner you'll see a little microphone and press it,
give us your talkback and you are on the show.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
And that could happen tonight. Actually, and now we are
going to another talkback. Hi, True Crime tonight.

Speaker 8 (09:43):
This is Jennifer from Delaware, and I was wondering what
you guys thought about Dalainne Maxwell potentially getting pardoned.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Do you really think that's possible? Covering in hot with
the talkbacks tonight? This is a tough one. I'm gonna
jump in. Do I think it's possible? Well, technically it
is possible. Yes, technically the president can in fact pardon,
Gilean Maxwell. I'm going to go and say, I don't
think that's gonna happen. Please tell me that's not gonna happen,

(10:11):
because I do think that would be wild. So no,
I don't think it will happen. Technically it can happen,
although there was this really strange thing that happened just
to you know, yeah, you know, twenty four hours ago,
which is what there was like a lockdown allegedly at
the low security prison that Gilaine Maxwell is being housed

(10:35):
out currently, obviously a bit controversial. She was staying in
a far scarier location for her twenty years for sex
track of a gang, a crime she's been convicted of,
and because she is air quotes a co conspirator in
the Jeffrey Epstein case. Obviously he never went to trial
because he took his life allegedly allegedly allegedly, there's been

(10:57):
a new resurgence for Glaane. So she did meet with
an attorney within the administration, and from that conversation could
be just timing, it does appear she's gone to a
lower security prison and just recently there was some sort
of a lockdown at this lower security prison because there

(11:19):
was a very high stakes secret meeting with Glaine Maxwell
and someone.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
And someone we don't know. Do we have any idea
who that someone is?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh no, that's the secret.

Speaker 7 (11:32):
But the prisoners correctly are really up in arms and
saying she's getting preferential treatment. This mysterious meeting with whomever.
It happened in a chapel, and because of that, other
inmates didn't get outdoor time.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
This is according to a report. But in a chapel,
no less, Oh my goodness.

Speaker 5 (11:55):
So we have no idea who this person is, but
a secret meeting that would cause the entire low security
prison to be on lockdown, to have I don't know, well,
I don't know not And there really isn't a ton of
speculation either, not being cagey, there isn't a lot of
reporting on even names being thrown out.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So well, okay, so who knows. Let's think about this.

Speaker 5 (12:16):
It would have to be somebody that whoever is in charge,
Let's just say they Okay, let's just use.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Them, because it's they don't be so many.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
They don't want the prisoners to see this person, so
they must be recognizable, right right, yep?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yes, yes, So can they say some time with Gelane, though,
why are they in person? Do we have to be
in person for this weird lockdown meeting a beautiful thing?
Why are we not?

Speaker 9 (12:41):
Adam Adams weighing in, Yeah, I have a family who's
been in prison before, so I know like these lockdown situations.
When a prison's on lockdown, all of the prisoners are
just confined to their beds or their dorm or wherever
they're at, and so they can't make any phone calls.
They can't call their family, you know, they're all schedule
gets hall flipped upside down. So that's just annoying too

(13:04):
that some hotshots come in to talk to Gallaine Maxwell
and all the other prisoners have to just deal with
sitting in their beds for talking about it.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
And by the way, you know she's not making friends.
That's a sure fire away not to make any new friends.
But to that end, why are they coming in person?
Whoever this day is we're going to have a pretend day.
I don't know, my brain because it doesn't it recorded.

Speaker 6 (13:27):
Yeah, I was about to say, maybe they just because the.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Phone and it's in the chapel. That's the zoom the chapel.
It's like the mob.

Speaker 6 (13:36):
It's like, listen to you when you call into prisons
like you can't.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
You can't in a chapel. That's why I learned that
on the Sopranos. I can't a trapel. And so to me,
that says a lot to me.

Speaker 7 (13:50):
Interesting it'll I feel like it will come out eventually.
But yeah, there's no even hints or speculation being dropped.
We did get a really good DM about Epstein as well.
It's from Kristin and she writes, almost did a talk back,
but got too nervous. Kristin, We're an easy audience, so
try to get end of us.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Take that down to love the show.

Speaker 7 (14:13):
The jail pregnancy story had me laughing so hard I
was crying, and she finishes I think by the time
they are done delaying the release of the Epstein files,
they will have been destroyed.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
So where are these files? Who has the files? Remember
that Seinfeld episode where they were always carrying the Penske file.
Oh yeah, anyway, yeah, where are these files? Like is
it a It's the root of all scary movies in
some way or another.

Speaker 7 (14:41):
But that jail pregnancy story that did have me laughing
for a while.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
That's where the guy.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
The trial is happening right now. By the way, Oh,
what's happening with trying to mom? Happening right now?

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Updates to come. Well, listen, keep it here. We have
more talk back coming up. We're going to be covering
your thoughts on the Ellen Greenberg case, and later we
have a lot of comments on waighted vests. I'm calling
keep it here True crime tonight. Let's go to our

(15:23):
next talk back.

Speaker 10 (15:24):
In the case of the Alan Greenberg case, I'm curious
to know if the hesitation stabbing wounds can also indicate.

Speaker 11 (15:34):
Somebody of familiar familiarity that knows her that maybe just
hesitated while they were doing it because they knew her,
or does it automatically mean hesitation for suicide?

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I want to like jump out
of my chair. I haven't heard it articulated that so clearly,
but yes, that's what I've been scratching at in that. Yeah,
I love this question.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
So if you couldn't hear because the audio was a
little couldn't convoluted. She asked if in Ellen Greenberger's case,
one of the reasons that they ruled it a suicide
is that the medical examiners noted that there were hesitation marks,
and what the talkback was asking was could hesitation marks
be because somebody that did it was familiar with her?

(16:25):
And the answer is yes, The answer is yes. It
now it obviously is more prevalent in suicides, right, I
mean for sure. But when I was doing that show,
I had to do the you know, the Elliott Smith
stuff where he stabbed himself in the chest, and I
had to do all this research on stabbing as a
form of you know, suicide, and I found this case.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think it was in the nineties, and it was.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
A father who regretted unfortunately killed his wife and son,
but he redressed his son and the son had all
these hesitation marks stab wounds around his heart area, but
there were no corresponding holes in the shirt.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
So they know it was a homicide, right, And there
was this hesitation marks. What is this maniac father who's
you know, these little torture wounds and redressing his.

Speaker 5 (17:15):
Right But that's how they knew it wasn't a suicide
or you know, I mean this little boy on first
of all, but that's how they So the hesitation marks
can be left behind by somebody familiar with the victim,
you know, and hesitation marks, so we don't know what
they are. They're like shallow wounds that appear because right

(17:36):
before a fatal wound because they're hesitant, like you know,
there's maybe guessing themselves, and you know, familiarity can make
you second guess yourself. So but but it is pretty rare.
It's worth not This is a great question. You know
who this who would be great to answer.

Speaker 6 (17:53):
This is Joseph I think so, yeah, Hy.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
But it does speak to the psychological piece of it
as well, because you're talking about someone who's familiar. You know, again,
we're way out of We're way out of the real
world here, right, So already you're conscious enough to even
be hesitating. What a scary hesitation wounds are. That's just
a scary concept. I never really heard of that before.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
The biggest thing for me and Ellen's case is the
spinal injury that wasn't didn't have any signs of hemorrhaging,
which means initially they said it was because it was
done post you know, after she passed away, right. That
indicates that she wasn't bleeding, her heart stopped pumping, and
there's no hemorrhaging in her spinal column. Well, now a

(18:42):
medical examiner is saying that it's a result of an autopsy,
and find that so interesting because it's been highly disputed.
Listen this Medical Examiner report. It's I think it's thirty
two or thirty three pages. It's getting a criticism from
medical experts, and I've been reading all day about it

(19:04):
because it's just kind of it's so fascinating to me.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
And is the broad strokes to that, because I know
you have been knee deep in it? Is the broad
strokes that the autopsy itself meaning? And not to get
too gruesome here, trigger alert. If you're conducting an autopsy
as a medical examiner on a deceased human to find
out their manner and or a cause of death, does
that actual autopsy in those incisions, et cetera affect the

(19:28):
next autopsy? And is that what's being said here because
there was a change.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
I don't believe they're actually looking at Ellen, right, They're
looking at the reports and things like that, this medical examiner.
But I could be wrong about that. Actually I don't.
I don't actually believe they're looking at Ellen though, like herself,
like I don't believe they're looking at the body itself.

Speaker 7 (19:49):
Right, So the chief medical examiner, it's doctor Lindsay Simon.
She just concluded, as we said, that Ellen Greenbird's death
is best classified as a suicide. However, she this is
despite the fact that she has new findings that reveal
three additional stab wounds and twenty new bruises.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Right, yeah, bruises, you know, on the one hand, would
insinuate that maybe she was in something abusive. Now, by
the way, the person that this is being insinuated about
was her you know, her love at that time, who
has said he is not guilty. And again, what if
he's not guilty, and there's this like cloud of suspicion

(20:30):
always being thrown his way because multiple people have said no, no, no, no,
there's no they're there. On the flip of that, how
do you dispute there being stab wounds down a spine?
I mean, just like, in the most basic common sense
of it all, that inherently seems very hard. I honestly
can't even like, and I'm not being glib, I can't

(20:52):
even do my own brasstrap think about that. I'm not
even saying that as a joke, but in reality, a
stab wound not just one again and again and again.
Now add hesitation wounds, now add bruising to the body.
It's a lot for a human body who at some
point would be into shop even if she were the

(21:14):
most depressed human alive. And by all accounts that was
not the case. I hope that wasn't the case. And
sometimes that happens behind closed doors. But you know, she
was very, very loved and had a very big life
and maybe felt like a little stressed about teaching and
her job. Of course, you know, raise your hand if
you've ever been stressed at work before, you know, like,

(21:36):
that's not that's not a thing about things on me.
But in terms of the awkward positions that you were
just talking about, Stephanie forensic psychiatrist named doctor Kara Lieberman,
who you will remember we interviewed, oh for another nteresting. Yeah. Yeah,
So she has commented on the case.

Speaker 7 (21:58):
She's been following it very closely, and she has said that,
in her professional opinion that the city's renewed suicide ruling
defies both science and common sense.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
And we interviewed her for what Idaho she was an Idaho.
Is that that's correct, remembering that correctly?

Speaker 7 (22:17):
Yeah, the season two exactly, really knowledgeable, obviously forensic psychiatrist.
And she goes on to stay, there's absolutely no way
she could have or would have committed suicide by stabbing
herself with knives in all these awkward positions, and she
highlights the fact that women who do commit suicide generally

(22:37):
use a more gentle means, such as an overdose. Further
goes on to say, she would have had to be
a contortionist. This is the act of someone who was
enraged at her and got pleasure out of each stabbing.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
These are doctor Lieberman's words.

Speaker 6 (22:53):
Wow, yeah, that was my thought immedia, like, how do
you you'd have to be a contortionist, like to bend
your arm.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, let's go there. Well, she she was having a
psychotic break. Let's just say, and again this was not reported,
and this is not accurate by anyone's account, but let's
just assume, like, Okay, there's a psychotic break. Is she
even physically able to It doesn't even seem physically possible,
even taking the emotional out of it. Then add the

(23:19):
fact that she was an extremely happy, loved, functional school
teacher who you know, Listen, people hit hard times and
sometimes those you know hard times happen behind closed doors,
but there's enough to suggest that this was really out
of character if this was the case, and that must
be so incredibly daunting for her family.

Speaker 6 (23:41):
Well, again to Boddy's earlier point, I think this is
a good one that we should talk with Joseph about
because there's so many areas of it that just don't
add up and make sense.

Speaker 5 (23:50):
And he really does know so much about this case,
like he's so close to it. So yeah, like I
would like to save this talk back for Sunday when
he's here with us englvered again if we can, just
because it's very interesting and I actually really love this talkback.

Speaker 6 (24:05):
Well, we actually have another one about Ellen if we
want to go to that one. She's really buzzing.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Okay, hey, I.

Speaker 8 (24:12):
Have a question about the Ellen Greenberg case. This might
sound a little weird, but was she hyper mobile?

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Was she able to.

Speaker 8 (24:20):
Do you know those fun tricks where you're, you know,
bending your arm out and it goes past one hundred
lady degrees? Was she into contortion?

Speaker 6 (24:30):
Who knows?

Speaker 8 (24:31):
I've seen people bend their bodies in such dramatic ways.

Speaker 5 (24:35):
Yeah, actually that's a really good question.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Go on, Courtney, yeah, it's a really fair question.

Speaker 7 (24:40):
And while we just told you about what a forensic psychiatrist,
doctor Lieberman said, the coroner, doctor Simon, did say, while
the distribution of injuries is admittedly unusual, the fact remains
that Ellen would be capable of inflicting these injuries herself.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
So that is another medical profess. I don't know why
those crazy injuries, like I mean, again, we're going to
a very dark place right now, even in this discussion.
But was she would the suggestion be that she would
do this to herself to set a stage for somebody
to be accused of her death.

Speaker 5 (25:20):
She was hyper mobile though she did have hypermobility, Oh
she did. She was a contortionist. Well, she had I
think she had Elders Downer syndrome. I don't want to
say it incorrectly, Elders Dianner syndrome. But the medical experts
that the Greenbergs are working with say that that is
actually due to her hypermobility, that she would not have

(25:43):
been able to inflict all those wounds because her joints
were so unstable. Oh yeah, yeah, so, and this is
discussed in the documentary.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Okay, the fact that spoiler, spoiler, spoilerler.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Yeah, this is discussed in the ducumentary, so you're gonna
have to watch it and participate in True crime and
chill next Wednesday for us to talk about it. But
she but apparently she was hypermobile. But it doesn't mean
what you think. It means her joints were unstable. This
is another really good one for Joseph. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
But again, even regardless of the name of it, I
think the talk back was suggesting that she was more
more elasticity, and I don't know that. It's like then
perhaps I would despite my well despite any Yes, there
is no contortionist happening in my world. So like that
is is that like a skill that she was suffering

(26:38):
or had. I guess you wouldn't really suffer from that.
That would be so specific. I would even know.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
Basically what the Greenberg said and I'm going to paraphrase,
is that her their daughter was so limber, she would
not have been able to do this because the joints
don't have the stability. Even though you can get back there,
let's say you don't. You don't have the stability to
do it. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah? Like the force?

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Yeah, but that's you know, I don't know a lot
about it, so Joseph would.

Speaker 6 (27:04):
Be yeah, get we'll get Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
This is like right up his alley.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
This all this medical jargon teas though, you guys, it
is a good day to get into set up because
there's a lot to pay off in this one.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
There's a lot to discuss. But I stand with Joseph's
findings me too.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
And you know what, if Joseph can convince me to
change my mind about everything, I just said, I'm willing
to do it.

Speaker 6 (27:29):
So I'm on board. If you can prove it, I'll
go along.

Speaker 5 (27:33):
But yeah, but so the medical examiner report, it's thirty
thirty two pages, and I just kind of wanted to
go through some of the things that, like Courtney was
saying that she that she said during these things she
found three additional skin perforation marks that were not previously
found before. So maybe she does have like imaging of Ellen,

(27:55):
you know, or or something to look at because she
discovered three additional appears. Maybe they might be hesitation marks.
Twenty more bruises, bringing the total number documented to thirty
one total. And Simon that's her name. She did say
that Ellen could have gotten these bruises in her everyday life,
like walking around and you bump your knee, things like that,

(28:17):
Like they seem to be like every day kinds of bruises.
But I'm telling you, I can't remember a time in
my life when I was walking around having thirty one.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Bruises on me. I mean, thirty one seems like a lot.
Although I definitely have like a good chunk. Do you
have my own?

Speaker 5 (28:32):
I just walk into door knobs and yeah, I'm trying
to put things and I fell on my face yesterday.
I'm so glad on her by day. Whoa, yeah, I
landed on my face. That were at the office, Yeah no,
I yeah. I texted my friend.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I'm like, I think I'm want of a block. I
was totally being you know, did you pay based on
it right away? I did? I had peas. Oh yeah, yeah,
heat trick. You're like Rocky Balboa. Let's go to a
talk back leer in Australia. Please get the vest for merch.
I would one hundred percent buy one. If you guys
offer international shipping. Can help the good work girls. Oh

(29:07):
my god, I just forgot. That's the greatest.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
That's the great They have the best idea what I
did weighted vests, okay, like they have True Crimes Tonight
on and then we did little in the little pocket
in the front a little mace container.

Speaker 10 (29:21):
Wyo.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Oh so cute, and we can have the logo, the
True Crime Tonight logo. But it's like a fluorescent and
like in the dark water. A lot of us are listening.
I mean, we get a lot of callers from the
morning and like, I don't know this infamous walk. I
haven't full disclosure though for all you heavy waiting with
weight vests and walking, I have a feeling court and

(29:43):
that you're doing this. For sure they will listen. I
only do it here, so I'm not running around town
with the vest because it can be heavy. Even if
it seems light, it can be heavy after a long
period of time. So let's all be careful. But I
love this idea.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
I like, that's a great one. Or maybe even the
words allegedly alleged in the back of it or something
that gives it a hold, and it gives.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Us a little like and then we can like chat together.
Everybody has to have their cell phones on though, because
then you can join the conversation and we're all doing
a little fifteen minutes on, fifteen minutes off? Is that
how it goes?

Speaker 5 (30:19):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Out? And your weighing in.

Speaker 9 (30:20):
You need some sort of technology where you just push
a button, then you leave a talk back.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
There's a microphone, but that's so cute, and you have headphones.
Oh right, I love this idea. I like it. Okay,
that's let's make it happen that way though. Just a
little quick updates speaking of merchandise. Though, listen, we're a
little machine here, so we're we're going as best as

(30:45):
we can. But we're Samantha because remember Samantha who actually
was the original sweatshirt person who made a mock artwork
of the sweatshirt. Well, she, I think created a mock
and then sent it to Gabe a little t M.
I behind the scenes here Gabe with us on the
KT side, and now they're going to connect. So it's

(31:05):
all it's all like, it's all happening. I was community
is real. I was exciting.

Speaker 6 (31:15):
Oh you were, Yeah, that's gonna be good.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I want to see it. I want to see this matha.
Oh no, she sent us a photograph, you know, Samantha,
our listener sent us the photograph of her idea, and
it turns out her boyfriend owns a printing shop. So
then Gabe is connecting with the boyfriend at the printing
shop via Samantha via Taha via talk back Tuesday. I

(31:39):
want to say this is a listen. We're like, we're
in it together everyone. So this is as I understand it,
that is what is happening behind the scenes right now.

Speaker 6 (31:51):
Yeah, I think something's cooking and body, I'll send you
that photo. But she took the time to create one
in advance, so we've got the prototype.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Am I gonna like it?

Speaker 6 (31:59):
You're gonna love it? I guarantee.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Okay, you're gonna love it. No, you're gonna have it.
It's like perfect experiant is in our head. It's like,
you know you're gonna love it. I'm excited. Well, thank you, Samantha,
I love it. Okay. Cool.

Speaker 6 (32:14):
The merging stuff has really like resonated with people, like
that's getting a lot of talk backs, Like, as a
matter of fact, when't we hit another one because that's
just my giveaways.

Speaker 12 (32:24):
Hey, it's fricking in Connecticut. I hear you guys talking
about turning your best or selling best for merch and
I think you should get like that friend lamp technology
in there so that when you touch that spot on
the vest all of the other true crime tonight people

(32:46):
know that you're thinking of them and there.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Okay, I love that. Have you guys seen these lamps?

Speaker 6 (32:52):
Really know?

Speaker 2 (32:53):
I was picturing like like a batman in the sky.
What is going to sell them though we're not. I
don't think the goal is telling them. I think the
goal was to like do a little like giveaway or
like a I don't know, like a riddle.

Speaker 5 (33:05):
Okay, So they have these like friendship lamps, or maybe
you're in a relationship with somebody that lives far away,
right and you get these bracelets or these lamps. That's
I'm sure there's other things, but these are what I've
seen and you were. Let's say I have a bracelet
and like me and Stephanie, right, yeah, she's far away
from me, and I'm thinking of her. I can like
double tap my bracelet and her bracelet will light up

(33:28):
and it lets her know.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, it's really cool. And they have lamps too that
do it, and I think that's what the that's so
you have a little like it's like a little kissing
hand from across the coast, or across the country, or
across the town. Yes, or you know, it's very stalker's
dream come true. I can't get you out of my mind.

(33:52):
I can't get you out of my mind, can't get.

Speaker 5 (33:54):
So you buy them pairs. You usually buy them in
pairs and they're pulled together.

Speaker 11 (33:58):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
That's so great idea. So again, like I think we
should just I don't I the merge crazy, Ye, listen.
I like the idea though. We can create a super
gift and like we can, you know, pay it forward
and maybe there's some sort of a Hey, I don't
know what we're giving the prize away for, but just
for listening is so nice.

Speaker 5 (34:20):
Maybe you know what, maybe we do a prize a
week and we we just put all the talkbacks in
a barrel.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Pick a winner, and that's like the lotto. Yes, the
prototype of the vest, and then we'll have to workshop
it based on that person's opinion. That's right, it's great.
So make your talk so we can get you in
the lotto like a group efforts.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Pay it forward at six degrees of the vest. It's
a new incarnation. I love it.

Speaker 6 (34:51):
Oh well, I have another one that ties in with merch.
This one, Sam and Adam, can you play nineteen A?
That one is a good one.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Hi, this is Judith. Excuse my breathlessness.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I'm on my last run before the Chicago Marathon. I say,
I love you, guys. I'm listening to Tuesday's episode and
Stephanie just said that she sits in traffic sometimes it
says not today, Kendra, and I love that. I think
it should be on some merch just saying thank you
for all that you do. It is a joy listening

(35:22):
to you, lady.

Speaker 6 (35:25):
Woman running a marathon.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
She's running a marathon, she's leaving a talk back. I
can't even like function if I was running. Can't even
stand up from the dum March hair with our vest.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
It weighs me down, like.

Speaker 5 (35:40):
Super Woman's calling us, Oh my goodness, I don't even
remember the truth.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
I say that in my head four times a day, easily, easily.
It's like my own little personal Catchra is like who
is Kendra? Kendra is from Andrew. Of course, she's from
the documentary that we all watched, Unknown Caller, the for
cocta mom that, like you know, was like trying to

(36:07):
console her daughter while she was the actual abuser, and
then she had the nerve to talk to camera and say,
everybody husband. Her lame answer was so lame, and I
thought it was upsetting. It was upsetting. She was ridiculous.
I love that.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
By the way.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I don't even know what that means, but I just
really saying it.

Speaker 6 (36:30):
For years.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
I don't even know what it means, but it means
like New York. It's kind of like a It definitely
means like not right. It's some kind of like messy,
kind of like kind of nonsensey garbage. It's like garbage, garbage. Yeah,
it's a garbage, thank you court. Okay, Oh it's Yiddish.

(36:51):
Oh okay.

Speaker 6 (36:52):
I've heard that for years. I think back in our
Sally days, someone say, oh, that story is that's a
story because.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Like I got from gated and excuses, excuses, excuses. It's
kind of what that means is like in my head,
Kendroid was not taking any accountability as a mother, was
honestly like assaulting her daughter, in sexually harassing in a
really disgusting way an underage boy. Can we just please

(37:20):
kend I.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
Just had to a brain bionic like shooting moment we're
talking about merch.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
What if we did this is so stupid? Okay, what
if we did body lotion? Oh wow, I just wanted
to be funny.

Speaker 6 (37:43):
Now that one can be your own private line by something.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Okay, goodness, isn't that stupid? Okay? Moving on?

Speaker 6 (37:53):
What do we got?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Beg We got a more big vest idea. If you
want to hear it, we have more.

Speaker 6 (38:03):
Let's just do it.

Speaker 13 (38:04):
What do you add?

Speaker 10 (38:05):
Everyone?

Speaker 14 (38:06):
Just from newbie, shouldn't I jump the gun pause to
send in my talk back about the weighted best came back?
Stephanie suggested it in the next and I love that
our minds seemed to be connected, and that's why I
love this podcast.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
How about a weighted best printed on a T shirt?

Speaker 14 (38:24):
That might be cool too, with like a strong, prepared
and protected.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
So are we talking like a tuxedo shirt? Right away?
We listen. I'm exhausted. This has been a long week
of the best. But by the way, we're doing it
in increments. But I'm not going to deny. I feeling mine.
You did it, you overdid it. This is on your
first time problem. This is what they tell me on
the TikTok that you have to just be slow small.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I don't do.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Get I need to go all the way back to
the beginning. So it's little, it's little micro decisions, just
a little small ones. So in segment at a time,
wisdom via TikTok. This idea is she.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
Said, strong protected and what prepared. Yeah, she said, that's
what we're strong protected and prepared. And it's a true crime.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
It's a teach community that that's the way and best
Yes on it.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I think it's cute and we can also go to
sleep in it and have like a little like like
a little in our make under because by the end
of the show, we have taken off all our makeup.
I'm like taking the opposite of a makeover. It is
a tragic make under in its most beautiful form. When

(39:48):
you're in such comfortable in a company, we're like by
the end of the show, it's real. I mean there's
spend time like I've got to take me, I just
like take right now. Yes, so beautiful and vulnerable. And
by the way, you guys are the most beautiful with
fresh faces. Back at you, Did you guys on the
fresh face real quick? Did you guys? Used to watch

(40:11):
Amy Schumer's comedy show ever I've seen.

Speaker 6 (40:13):
It's so funny.

Speaker 7 (40:15):
She there was this one hysterical segment and it was
kind of a dream sequence and this boy band is singing, girl,
you don't need no makeup, and she's there, and then
she actually takes it off, and then they all start singing, Carol, you.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Gotta put back on that makeup. Like it's it's like
a full, it's a full. Yeah, listen some of small things.

Speaker 5 (40:39):
Yeah, maybe you take all the makeup off and you
put some of that body lotion body.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yes. Well, you know when I first met Joseph.

Speaker 5 (40:48):
I met Joseph at Crime con in Austin, I think
in twenty twenty, Like it was like the middle of COVID.
It was like the craziest crime Wow. And he was
there because he was nominated for a Clue Award and
I was presenting with the Nightstalker detective by the way,
who's a family friend.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Did you guys know that? No, that's a whole nother story. Eight,
that's another Sunday full.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
Yeah, that's a Sunday we'll do that rip. When I
met Joseph, I didn't know who he was. I had
recognized him on Nancy from Nancy Grace River. But I
didn't know he had a podcast and we were talking
because I was presenting, you know, for the Clue Awards, and.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
His podcast was body Bags.

Speaker 5 (41:31):
And literally four days prior, somebody contacted me and they
were like, listen, I want to white label some purses
and I want to call them body bags.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay, and I was like, I love it. Let's do it.
This will be fun. And I met Joseph and I'm like,
oh no, I can't do people hanging from your arm.
You can't have that.

Speaker 5 (41:50):
No, but the body with the au D I well, yeah,
that's what That's what it would be, body body moving back,
body bags. So Joseph had to make it all about
he did. He had to make it all the death
Investigator at it again. I know it is in his
hit podcast.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
That's amazing three times a week, unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
But anyway, that's my Joseph Storry and how I met him. Yeah, Gil,
the night soccer Detective is a family friend.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Okay, we have to do a whole night about the
night stalker. Honestly, too scary. Almost I have to take
that night off. The night Stalker is too scary, right,
which is a crazy thing to say, living there at
the time.

Speaker 5 (42:29):
And he he attacked somebody where I was living in
Mission Vieho. Oh really yeah, And I was living in Mission,
but we had moved from Detroit to southern California and
we were in Mission Vieho. Literally two years later, the
Nightstalker appears in Southern California and he attacked in Mission Vieho.
And he was a family friend of me and my
best friend, my best friend basically, and he was like,

(42:50):
I'm going to catch the guy, don't you guys, don't
have to.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Worry like he was. I was a little girl. And
he talks about this clue. No, oh yeah, my whole life,
the night Stalker, oh, the detective.

Speaker 15 (43:02):
Okay, I'm not pal, how long have you been burying
this lead? My best friend Maya in high school?

Speaker 2 (43:13):
So well, he's a real hero.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
He is a real hero. Made me feel a lot
better as a little girl.

Speaker 6 (43:18):
I was much I'd love to chat.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
I'm sure he will.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Immediately, Gil Gil Yeah, I'm just not the nights talker.

Speaker 6 (43:30):
Okay, no, not the night her mace So she were Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Now, so talk back tuesdays. It will continue. So make
sure you stay with us, and you can also join
us live eight eight eight three one Crime. You're listening
to true crime tonight. Stay with us. Let's go to

(43:55):
our next talkback.

Speaker 16 (43:56):
This is Julie, your crime fisialist yesterday with but he
wondered if people from Mayawa even cared. Well, I'm from
Nebraska and I care. I cried when I saw the
Palisade fires on TV, when the Israelis were taken hosted,
when the Palestinians lost their homes and were starving, and
at the Ukraine War. I don't think you have to

(44:17):
live somewhere to fill the empathy. True crime lovers, I
think always feel empathy for what's happening to other people.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Really beautiful, thank you Monny for that side. I was
just having this debate in this beautiful comment. That's so
interesting because sometimes true crime audiences get called to the
carpet of like, oh, we're in this like murder phase
in a genre, And I'm like so flabbergasted when I
hear that, because I think, really, if you are following

(44:48):
true crime and invested in justice and seeing things through
and unpacking people's stories and healing together, that's like I
think it's an audience of empathy period. It's like a
very empathetic audience, I should say, And I think that
hits it on the nose. Every one of these stories,

(45:09):
I think people listen to with an open heart and
really feel for all parties, right, you know, no one's
like jumping in just for the fun. I think it's
really just an opportunity for us all to kind of
feel connected.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Yeah, I feel when I will whenever I talk about
like a case or or true crime in general, I
always I mean, I think we all try to be
victim forward. You know, some of us are better than others,
you know, like I think out of all three of us,
you guys are better at than I am. But I
think I'm better at some things. And you know what
I mean, Like it's a given take. Yeah, you're always

(45:44):
victim forward. But I think what I'm saying is we
all try to be very victim forward, and we really
are like a We're constantly thinking of the victims in
our heads. And one thing that you know this has
taught me the palisates fire in particular, is you know,
this week has been pretty hard on Steph I think,
you know, and personally watching her go through this has

(46:09):
shed a light for me as somebody that talks about
true crime, and you know, this is a this is
crime and it's true and this is you know, so
true crime and something that I'm going to take with
me moving forward.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
So thank you, Stephanie. It's just a nice of you
to say that. Yeah, through all those this week, it
was a very strong thing to do, because very strong.
I would just reopen a lot of things for anyone.

Speaker 5 (46:34):
Right, Oh, I got to say that just you're so sweet,
by the way, that's a very thoughtful thought to add
to that, though, I will say post Palisades, Yeah, dark
times for not only myself but everyone.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
People are lives. I almost feel guilty speaking of it,
because you know, I have a life ahead still, right.
So many people were you know, sitting back and just
about to look at their life in you know, reverse
and record scratch. So much was pulled away. So I
actually just have like a that just feels it just
feels hard, right.

Speaker 5 (47:07):
It's so probably like some kind of survivors built in
some sense, like yeah, like maybe a little bit you.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Know, a new life ahead and like new times. But
I say that simply to say and it was really
this project, Like the first time I laughed in a
long time, like I had had some laughs intermittent. Was
this like a weird upside down time. We started working
on this, right, and I swear it brought me back
to life a little bit.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
And when we were practicing, do you remember, oh remember
how horrible you want to get insult to injury?

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, talking about rhyme and they try to, you know,
practice a radio show. For four days we were death
And I say that not intentionally, but like it really
was like such a reminder of like new things and
new things. It was just new things and some giggles
like behind because there's lots of love here. I mean really,

(48:01):
I mean I can speak to that firsthand. You guys
really kind of funny. No, okay, now get on with it. Court.
We brought me some suitcases to get on with it.
I'm gonna move all right, get get there and get
on with it.

Speaker 5 (48:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
So there is something really exciting about this whole process
and this whole project because like it's kind of it's
been really beautiful and social. It's not aucocta. No, is
there a word for that, Well, it is for shared,
it is. I think that's another break. It's like write
at it again. IT'SO a multi language speaker.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
Listen, this is your crime tonight. If you know of
any other really cool words, give us a column us now.
I am into it for cocta is myny thing.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
I love you guys, Thank you so much. That was
such a nice thought.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
Yeah, thank you for the talk back. By the way,
it was really good.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
What have we got next?

Speaker 17 (48:54):
Hello, ladies, It's Stephanie from Pennsylvania. Always question about Sanchez.
I know that we were talking you guys were talking
about the you know, the possibility of him being root feed.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
My question is if he had a.

Speaker 17 (49:10):
To psychology, would that show up in his blood? Like
I don't know anything about that stuff. Could you explain
that a little more?

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Or ask our favorite Joseph too? Thank you right? How
good was her voice? By the way, I know that's
so good.

Speaker 5 (49:24):
I think it would. I think it would show up.
I think that if they did do it, any kind
of panel on him. I don't know that they did.
Do we know if they did.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
I don't know for a fact if they did it,
I was after our conversation, so I have done it.
Of course, I would have to assume even if I'm him,
I want the toxicology report because you know it might
disprove some of you know, the shenanigans at.

Speaker 7 (49:49):
Play or direction exactly, depending upon what your activities were prior,
you may not want it. And this comes into play
in so many cases of delaying, you know, with drunk driving,
and if you delay getting tested or have that and
wait for things to go out of your system. There
you go suggesting we don't know any of this.

Speaker 5 (50:11):
I think if he had been roofied, though, I think
that he would be like passed out, right, don't those
like make you sleepy?

Speaker 7 (50:18):
Yes, you're not running, you're not running up its right,
So I don't think he was like roofied or anything
like that.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
I think he's so grateful. I've never experienced being roofeed
and so scary. But yeah, I would assume you kind
of pass that maybe makes you aggressive. I don't know, No,
it makes you you're unconscious. It's a it's a tranquilizers, yeah.

Speaker 6 (50:37):
You yeah, see opposite direction. He was more piped up
than anything.

Speaker 5 (50:43):
So, but I think when we say, oh, was that
person roofeed, I think people are using it like as
a generic term for like, were they drugged, right, I
think how.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I kind of mean it is. Yeah, I don't want
it as a specific drug class of exhaustion. I mean
it more just as a general like you're at the
bar with a glass in your hand and somebody like,
I don't know, poor is something scary in it?

Speaker 5 (51:09):
Right?

Speaker 2 (51:09):
That makes you a wild card?

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Right?

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Or were they doing drugs on their own? I guess
that would come up to then, Yeah, it would.

Speaker 7 (51:16):
I mean I would imagine, depending upon what, if there
is any substance involved, how long it takes to get
out of your body? Right, because it's all different half
lives rights, I'd.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Be curious to know what that is. Because he was
in the hospital, so they must be monitoring that type
of thing, absolutely, But how long it take for him
to get the blood drawn?

Speaker 18 (51:38):
How?

Speaker 2 (51:39):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (51:39):
There's a lot at play here, and you know that
stuff hasn't been released yet. We don't know if that even.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Happened, Like in er. All I do is watch shows
from the nineties. I know I need to update that
and my music. I have a television with cable real
time though, you do you totally do that? I watch
real time stuff too, Yes, no, that is true. That below, Yeah, bravo.
But on e R there were many different altercations between

(52:08):
the police coming in and saying, get this, suspects blood
alcohol level and if the doctors, you know, thought that
the person was a good person, they kind of really
take their time over hours and then is that true?
Well yeah, it hasn't gone away. No, But just just
the fact that if it took, if he's arrested and

(52:29):
then he said someplace for four hours and then he
goes to the emergency room. I don't know any of
these details, right because then they sober up and then
obviously the toxicology report would be a little different. That
makes sense. Yea interesting. Have you guys watched the Pit
speaking of my friend?

Speaker 5 (52:43):
Isn't it.

Speaker 6 (52:45):
The guy that?

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Okay, so the guy that I was on the mole with,
he's in it. He's an actor on the pit, isn't
Noah Wiley? Was Noah Wiley on the on the moment
my friend? So he he's an actor and he got
this great role.

Speaker 13 (53:01):
He was the.

Speaker 5 (53:04):
Uh swat leader and he was an episode like seven
and eight.

Speaker 6 (53:08):
He loved it.

Speaker 7 (53:09):
Ose White, I don't know, that's not him, It says
an actor named Ose White, appeared on the Netflix reboot
of The Mole and has also been credited for role
on The Pit.

Speaker 5 (53:22):
That's his name is Sean, Sean Bryan, Sean the R
y A, Sean s H. S e A.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
And Hi Sean, are you listening? I love him. He
was quite good. I remember him. And by the way,
that show is harrowing. You want to talk about a
thankless gig where your heart is ripped out of your chest,
just time and time again and you don't even get
to see the sunlight. It is in the dark, crisis
after crisis, being in an emergency room or any.

Speaker 6 (53:54):
Yeah, there's definitely a definite personality type that can handle that.
And it's not really because I'm like when I say,
for people coming in in such pain and you have
to be able to multitask all these horrific things once that.
I love the way the show was shot also because
it's all sort of been I think a twenty four
hour period and it feels like you see one thousand

(54:15):
horrific things happening after another. I'm like, how do these.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
These is that all on one night? Am I still
watching the same night?

Speaker 6 (54:21):
Do you remember the show twenty four like it's kind
of like twenty four.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Twenty four.

Speaker 6 (54:27):
Oh, that was another amazing one.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, Oh my goodness, I this is still on. I
have to take it off.

Speaker 7 (54:33):
I actually worked on a legal case involving the show
twenty four.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Did you what I did?

Speaker 7 (54:39):
Because it was a very behind the scenes but a
person authored a book and they were doing the show
twenty four saying hey, you stole the idea of twenty
four from my book. So I actually was working for
the defense and I was given like fifteen other books
to do. I mean it was really comparative literature papers

(55:02):
that would say, Okay, if you're saying that we stole
from you, then we can say you stole from all
of these things. It was to disprove, So it was
like a behind the scenes did.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
You disprove it? I mean the case settled, but you
know you can comparative literature, you can? Yeah, you know,
can it go?

Speaker 6 (55:23):
Okay? That was another amazing show.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yeah, that was a show. By the way, I'm embarrassed
to admit that I didn't realize the pit was one
twenty four hour. Yeah, it's one twenty four period. It's
examination even as an episode, so I've had to turn
it off. A few times because I'm wiped out. I'm like,
just get me back to my Bravo where I can
just like zone out and buckle up, like the pit's
got me, it's got me awake. Yeah. Do you guys

(55:47):
watch Stranger Things?

Speaker 6 (55:49):
I did watch it. Yeah, I fell off.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Oh okay that one of Sam's I love Stranger Things.

Speaker 6 (55:58):
Okay, I could so see that too.

Speaker 19 (56:00):
And it's my whole thing is that it's like, Okay,
so the season's finally wrapping up, but it's like, I
just feel like I'm not invested because it's like they're
all like either really old or old or the fact
that like spoiler, nobody has died off and they just

(56:21):
keep adding care about Eddie?

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah, I mean Eddie is kind of major. Am I missing?

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Like Eddie?

Speaker 6 (56:29):
You already forgot about Eddie.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Divorce? We're divorced. It's not happening. I seem okay, body,
you don't. You can't go rush right to divorce. There
has to be like I'm that kind of toxic jump
to the ending. You know, it's okay to have a
conversation where you're not seeing I die.

Speaker 19 (56:52):
No divorce this well, technically, Eddie was a newer character.
I mean, like the original.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Cast you know, has been got a fair point Sam.

Speaker 19 (57:02):
I mean, how I love that because he was like
our representation of metal heads.

Speaker 5 (57:07):
But that's true, you know the fact that you know
he's based on dating echos from West Memphis.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Three No, but that makes sense really, yes, I swear
to god. Wow, so interesting because that really does make
sense when you think back. If you haven't seen the show,
please do. It's really it's so good.

Speaker 5 (57:23):
And I was super into like dungeons and dragons like
all that, and you know, I'm old, so it's like
really nostalgic for me.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
I just it's so wholesome. I just really love streaming
things and I'm so excited the news not anyway, I
love do you love One? I love her?

Speaker 6 (57:39):
I love her. Yeah, she's she's she's great, yes, and
seeing her have a comeback always makes me happy for
any actress.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
That I love the chief so that that's my very
very problematic type in my past. Wait, she right, like
he's like brooding thought.

Speaker 7 (57:57):
Yeah, yeah, like discuss my thought, yes exactly, and she
really want to dig in with the shovel.

Speaker 5 (58:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
And she had a song I wrote on the way
here with all my thoughts. We're getting so off tracks.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
Yes, so it's just so there's so much I don't
know how this is. There's so much television. How does
fit it?

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Going to save it for the true crime and chill? Well,
we can't do which is going to happen on the
twenty second of October? That's rights Wednesday? Is that accurate?
We all have to set our watches. We have to
get synchronized. Someone's going to add this to the list.
We should get synchronized watches everybody, so we know when
to do our watching. We do have synchronized watches. It's

(58:39):
called our phones. That's the whole audience. So we can
do like the little love tap, like hey guyslet'sice.

Speaker 7 (58:46):
Hey guys, remember Hulu documentary Death and Apartment six oh
three next Wednesday, And after the commercial break, we will
be having so many more talkbacks. We are we will
keep it to true Crime him mostly True Crown.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Tonight. It's our favorite night of the week. It's talk
back Tuesday. So we're going to keep jamming through these
heavy snaps. Right here, body, what do you have for us?

Speaker 5 (59:21):
So I have a DM I'm going to read and
this is from Cadron, and Cadron says, I was wondering
if there have been any serial killers in Missouri. Thank
you so much for bringing knowledge and entertainment to my life. Well,
thank you, Kron, And yes, there have been many serial
killers in Missouri. The Copeland's the Copelands were America's oldest

(59:45):
couple on death Row. And Ray Copeland he was the
patriarch or the family, the patriarch of the family, and
he turned to theft and fraud early in his life.
And he was doing the strangest things. He was stealing
livestock and then forging checks. Okay, Well, he married Fay

(01:00:06):
Wilson in nineteen forty and had several children. And you
have to remember this is like the Great Depression, right,
like this era of Missouri. Okay, but his crew, he
got married and they had kids, but he still was
stealing livestock and forging checks. Like he's just like you know,
he's trouble like in his core. They lived a transient life.

(01:00:27):
They moved from town to town across Missouri to stay
ahead of the law.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
But by nineteen sixty seven they settled on a farm
in Mooresville, Missouri. Okay, he was and This is where
the whole time he just was a thief. He was
just a thief. He was making a chief. But this
is where he became deadly.

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
Okay, So from nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine,
he recruited drifters and transients from missions and soup kitchens, promising,
you know, hey, come work.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
At my farm.

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
You know, I'll you look at cows. Yeah, well look
at look after my animals. You can sleep in the barn,
you know, doing those things. He bought cattle with their
bounced checks. Okay, well they're check books. He bought cattle
in their names, bounced checks, and then sold the livestock,
which is, you know, more fraud, and then he would.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
No kind of right.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
Yeah, so he deliberately chose men with like no family ties.
These are like transient men, you know, things like that.
So yeah, of course there are serial killers in Missouri,
and by the way, there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Might be a new one.

Speaker 5 (01:01:36):
Timothy Hazlitt Junior, the barrel killer.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Barrel killer. We've been talking about.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
Crime tonight, that's right, and we've just talking about what
So he's technically is he's on trial for I believe
to murders and you know, there is debate on whether
or not it's two or more or three or more
to classify you as a serial killer. But the level
of depravity that this man exhibited, and I don't want

(01:02:07):
to get too much into it because it's really gross
and sick, and Tuesdays we try to keep light and early.
But I do believe that he would have been a
serial killer had he not been arrested. Now, of course,
you know, I'm a little bit. Can you give it now,
you've you're overweight and in a little tidbit. So there
was a woman who escaped his house and she was

(01:02:29):
wearing like a trash bag and a dog collar, and
she runs out of his house. She goes to a
neighbor's house, knocks on the door, help help help. A
woman opens a door and this woman is standing there
in a dog collar and a black trash and she
tells the most horrific story. She was picked up to
do some work, some sex work, sex workers work, I'm

(01:02:50):
not you know, shaming, and he basically kidnapped her, tied
her up in the basement, and there was another woman
there when she arrived, and then the woman and disappeared,
And he said that he killed her. He was sexually
assaulting this woman over and olvers, torturing her while she
was cereal. They found this woman's body in a blue

(01:03:11):
barrel in the river. No, yes, and so a woman
that was with her, Oh no, no, a totally different one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
What so.

Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
Yeah, So there's there's a lot of there's a lot
of things happening in that case. And it's out of Missouri.
So thank you for that pop back.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
You know what's funny, I got a little city so good. No,
I think we should learn more about it. And by
the way, I wishny has to say that Missouri was
exempt because it's an awesome place. Number one, I don't
know that anywhere is exempt, to be honest, you know,
and thank god we talk about it because sometimes you know,
it can creep up on you and you're not prepared

(01:03:52):
or you don't even know what to look for. And again,
that doesn't mean you have to look for scary things everywhere,
quite the opposite. Honestly, if you know what to do,
then you're prepared and you can go about your merry,
happy life and live in a happy, a happy mindset.
But you know, you have to know kind of so
you're not caught up.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
So Timothy Haslet Junior is in He's in court currently.
He's the kisory that I just the Blue Barrel Killer.
But I just talked about Wow, and I believe his
trial is starting in December.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
I'll have to go. I wasn't really prepared to talk
about him tonight, so I'm doing all this from memory.
So you just winging this right now? I am winging this. Yeah,
you are at hand. I was like, did you have
a secret meeting barrel killing? Because you seem to be
pretty up to date, which is so cute. And by
the way, we did discuss this day one of true

(01:04:41):
count we did think none of us knew. I'm like, somebody,
you know you took a down.

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
The rabbit hole, but that's wild. So I think it's
in December.

Speaker 7 (01:04:50):
That's correct. He is slated to go to trial next Uh.
I'm already pushed to November.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
So it's on my radar. Girl, I got you. I
love it so much. I just love it so much. Yeah,
we should definitely follow that. I want to also follow
one other trial to put on our Rachel for January
is the guy in the Ditty Association. We also talked
about this Day one of True Crime Tonight, there was

(01:05:17):
a guy who claimed that he was a sex slave
of Diddy. Oh he started shooting up at Mr Lago
random yes, And then they brought him into custody and
they thought he was crazy because he was talking about
being a sex such ditty, which frankly was crazy talking that.
I think they put him into like a straight jacket,
like they were literally like, this crazy guy is saying

(01:05:39):
the craziest tails. Cut through those tails not so crazy.
And there's some speculation that he's been in protective custody.
And suddenly that trial seems to be on the docket
I think for January.

Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
So interesting and suddenly it seems a little bit more
interesting than the night before.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Right because it was pretty he was saying something that
was accurate and it seemed insane. Allegedly another talk back,
let's go to that. Hey, this is Rachel.

Speaker 18 (01:06:08):
I just wanted to say I love your guys' show.

Speaker 10 (01:06:11):
You guys did mention that Amy Bradley is Missing documentary
and I watched it recently and it really had me
questioning if going on a cruise ship.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Am I safe? Because I eat cruise all the time.

Speaker 16 (01:06:24):
But it put a lot of things into perspective.

Speaker 17 (01:06:26):
So now I'm nervous and wondering if I shouldn't go
on cruises anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Thanks guys, love your show.

Speaker 18 (01:06:32):
Can't wait to hear more.

Speaker 7 (01:06:33):
Okay, first of all, thank you so so much for
that talk back, and we actually Taha in a moment
is going to give you Amy Bradley update.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
And I think this actually goes back my purview, but this.

Speaker 7 (01:06:46):
Goes back to what Stephanie was saying, have the knowledge,
don't be afraid to live your life. So I would say,
if you're a cruise lover, love your cruises. However, super fun.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
They're so fun.

Speaker 7 (01:06:58):
I mean, I've been a carnival cruises and I love
a mombo, I love a pictionary.

Speaker 6 (01:07:03):
I mean I do.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
You'll let you all of it.

Speaker 7 (01:07:07):
However, cruises are lawless in terms of they have no laws.
It's international laws, so there is stuff to be aware
of in there, and there definitely are, uh, there are
crimes on cruises, so even within the fun, but again
that's within everywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
So I would say, you know, do your cruises and
be safe at it. I think it's actually love it.
I love a cruise to you love a cruise so
much that all you can eat the lost all day there.

Speaker 20 (01:07:35):
At midnight it hand over fish, unpacking and showering over
the toilet with that too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Keep it simple, right, like let's pack less and let's
do more. However, until COVID, that COVID Cruise, when COVID
was happening cruise, I loved the hoop Cruise where they
almost ride and this is I mean they almost ride
it over chicken wings I think, which they were, but

(01:08:07):
they were starving. There were starving. Literally, wait, why were
they picketing over chicken wings?

Speaker 5 (01:08:12):
The boat like lost power or I can't remember exactly,
but like lost power for like a week and they
had like floating in the Gulf of Mexico. They were
just like floating around and none of the toilets work.
That's why they call it the poop Cruise because they
got they had to get hazard bags, a little red
hazard bags and pooping them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Oh but it's so I mean, you can get dip
theory or just throwing out things. I mean, that is
so unsanitary. And by the way, I would survive that.
It was the COVID scare when everyone was locked up
but everyone was pooping away that sounds horrible. This well,
I think we're answering our own question right now. I've
come closer on this. I loves but apparently not on

(01:08:54):
an actual ship. I just maybe want to go party
in my head.

Speaker 6 (01:08:59):
I can fill you in on back to Amy Bradley
real quick. There's been a little update with that. So
according to the Hollywood Reporter, they've revealed there's some new
evidence and witness accounts that have reignited the investigation into
the nineteen ninety eight disappearance of Amy Bradley. And as
we were mentioning she's the twenty three year old who

(01:09:20):
vanished while on a Royal Caribbean cruise. Is her family
near Caraco. Following renewed public attention from Netflix's Amy Bradley
is missing, the FBI and private investigators are now pursuing
three new leads. Here we go free you in on
the leads that they have. One. There is a female

(01:09:41):
bartender aboard the ship the night Amy vanished. She's come
forward and she's saying she shouted Signorita kidnapped before silenced
by crew members, reinforcing theories of kidnapping. So that's one.
So she yelled at investigators are the other one is
investigators tracked a suspicious digital hit on Amy's missing person

(01:10:05):
website to a boat near Barbados, raising questions about possible
contact or surveillance by her captors. And then this is
a third lead. A new lead suggests this one is crazy.
A new lead suggests Amy may have had at least
one child while being held in captivity, according to witness

(01:10:25):
statements now being reviewed by the FBI. So yeah, I
know this is all the latest with that, But according
to the FBI and Bradley's family's private investigative team, they're
all actively following these leads in Carocco and neighboring territories, despite,
as we brought up, the limited jurisdiction that they have

(01:10:46):
because of the international jurisdiction.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Is really difficult in the best of circumstances, even within
the United States. So imagine now you're outside of that
and you're a loved one or a family member who's
looking for our answers. We did a podcast called Death Island,
which also really kind of highlights this and puts a
spotlight on the idea that once you leave you know,

(01:11:09):
literally chartered territory, you're US soil, you know, May God
bless America. Once you leave, you're on your own, kid,
And you know, in this case, imagine trying to peel
back answers from you know, the government, from the place,
from the sea, from the crews, you know, as parents
and investigators. It becomes really a StopGate. I can only

(01:11:31):
imagine how difficult that must be. And if she had
a child, if that's one of the working theories I've heard,
this theory is I wanted to I feel like I've
debated this on the grocery store line and in the elevators,
and it was kind of indicated in the in the
documentary there was that blonde woman who said she was
fairly certain she saw I mean, Bradley was in the bathroom,

(01:11:55):
that she had appeared that she had captors. And they
mentioned a child that way too. That would keep her, Yeah,
you know, that would play the captive. Captive, you want
to be the mama bear and look after her. Maybe
you could never run off, even if it is to
get help, even if you know that there's something else

(01:12:16):
out there. But you're a mom now and a mama bear.
You can't just run off, even if that might be
for the best of you. Sacrifice. I hope she's alive
and well.

Speaker 6 (01:12:27):
I do too.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:12:28):
But on the plus side, it seems like a lot
of these sort of docs really bring like a new
life to these cases.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Yeah, the yogurt chat murders, how about that one?

Speaker 6 (01:12:37):
Yeah, oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
And so they found him. They found him, and that
you have to assume just in large part due to
great investigative work. But the added swell, even within a department,
I would have to assume. This is an assumption at
a fact. But if you're working on a case from
forty years ago, you know it probably lacks a little

(01:13:00):
luster because there's so many cases happening in real time.
But when there's a swell from the public, maybe due
to a documentary or some you know, unforeseen interest, that
might allow some of those resources to go back and
to get some answers. It's a tough one because you know,
there's enough crime to be fighting real time. Yeah, but

(01:13:20):
it seems like the yogurt Chop murders, they didn't let
it go and up and vanished.

Speaker 7 (01:13:25):
I don't know if you guys remember that it was
a podcast that I believe has been made into it
was I used to set my watch by when.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
That would come out.

Speaker 7 (01:13:36):
It was extraordinary, it was excellent, and they solved in
doing this podcast Payne Lindsay and he was the one
who did it and he just started this really cold
case disappearance of Tara Grinstead and it was solved because
of the attention.

Speaker 6 (01:13:54):
Wow, that's impressive. I'm glad to hear that something positive
comes out of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
The actionable well and the attention.

Speaker 5 (01:14:02):
Ellen Greenwork's case is getting now another one because the
Hula documentary just came out, and now that all this
stuff is coming out, I mean, it's not necessarily what
we wanted to hear, but I mean it's still people
are talking about it, so it's very timely.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
And who knows, sometimes there's a relook that becomes required
when people really start to weigh in.

Speaker 5 (01:14:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Well, listen, I don't even know how we're already We're
already on the next one.

Speaker 15 (01:14:26):
We are.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Well listen, we're listening to True Crime Tonight. I'm Stephanie Leidecker,
Courtney Body and at this point we'll be right back
with some more talkbacks. So True Crime Tonight, stay with us.

(01:14:47):
Let's go for a talkback now.

Speaker 17 (01:14:49):
Three times and one night I am calling in. Can
you recognize the voice from Pennsylvania?

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
Anyway?

Speaker 17 (01:14:55):
I love you, It's Steph. You'll ask a calladed question
of how we got evolved in true crime. I think
that for me, because I'm a chaplain, it was a
spiritual question, spiritually, why did this happen?

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
How does this happen?

Speaker 17 (01:15:09):
And how can we make the world a better place
to live in spiritually because we've lost that.

Speaker 5 (01:15:15):
Oh wow, you're a chaplain.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Wow. I never thought of that.

Speaker 5 (01:15:19):
So in a spiritual way, you're trying to make the
world a better place and understand why things happen. And
I mean, obviously you probably offer counsel right to you're parishioners,
of course, so I want to be so you want
to be armed with like the worst of the worst,
so you, you know, are prepared to deal with people.
That's a that's very interesting. I never thought of that before.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Can you imagine you're in a situation you're the chaplain
and somebody comes in and they tell you a little
something that they've been experiencing in their real life or
behind closed doors, and the Chaplin's like, what, yeah, like
never had hurt and they're just dumbfounded. Listen these things.
I guarantee most every single person listening to us right now,

(01:16:05):
it's a it's not that bad. We talk about the
bad the most, of course, but you know everybody gets
really stuck in their heads. Wow. Anyway, it's a really
important gig. Yeah, that is a very important gig. Thank you, Steph.
I know she didn't say her name, but I know,
I know. It's so beautiful. Yeah, I'm getting to know.

Speaker 5 (01:16:26):
I'm getting to know everybody, and I recognize her immediately,
So thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Any friends from Newfie and Australia I know right best.
So what do we have next?

Speaker 18 (01:16:36):
Hey, it's Mac from Idaho. I just wanted to say
thank you body for your kind words. And I feel
like when you talk about the ripple effect, that really resonated.
And my mom was actually in town, so we talked
about it and I think that helped her. She doesn't
keep up with anything just because it hits a little
too close to home for her, but I think that

(01:16:59):
helped her and just kind of understanding that, you know,
there are ripples and it does affect people.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
So thank you. Oh that was so cute.

Speaker 5 (01:17:09):
Yeah, I mean the ripple effect and for those who
don't know what we were talking about. We were talking about,
you know, the Idaho student murderers. Brian Coberger has been convicted.
He played guilty. He's currently serving what one hundred and
thirty something years our life without the possibility of parroll
plus ten. And you know, obviously there were four beautiful

(01:17:33):
victims in this case, Kayleie, Maddie, Zanna and Ethan. And
then there's the you know, the ripple effect. And the
ripple effect is, of course, the families first, you know,
the family of all four of those victims if you
imagine a circle, and then you know, out from there
the friends, and then the town and then classmates, yeah, classmates,

(01:17:58):
and it just ripples, it just goes, you know, like
you might not have been a victim of Brian Coberger,
but you were affected in some way, right, And that's
the ripple effect. And Mac, if I remember correctly, her
mom was either a teacher there or went there or
lived in Moscow and was fairly traumatized from this event.

(01:18:21):
And you know, I think, Mac, I'm sorry if I
don't remember correctly, but it's been a while, but I
do remember a little bit. It's something about her mom
and her mom was feeling bad about it, and yeah, yeah,
her mom was feeling bad about it. And you know,
you might not have been a direct victim of Brian Coberger,
but this is a small town in Idaho, and everyone's

(01:18:44):
affected in some way, So you might not be a
primary victim, but you're, you know, a third four sixth.

Speaker 6 (01:18:52):
Sixth, seventh victim.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
You know, That's how I look at it. And even
on Brian Coberger's side too, right, so his family, his siblings,
of course, their cousins. You know, you think of Luigi Mangione,
like if you know or Mangione ripple, ripple, ripple, anybody
who's really come in contact. That becomes a generational thing too.
I'm dying to talk about generational trauma at one point

(01:19:17):
a different time, but something I'm like knee deep in studying,
but it is so true the ripple effects sometimes is
even just hearing a story sometimes can really stop somebody
in their tracks. And there's nothing to say other than
I think that's shared grief, right, that's a feeling of

(01:19:38):
heartbreak or sadness or loss, if you know, being victimized,
anything that kind of you can categorize that way is
really somewhere gutturally, it's very relatable. And somehow the Idaho students, like,
in some way I touched all of our DNA in
a way that can't quite be described. They became like

(01:20:02):
extended family members, even though they really weren't right well.

Speaker 7 (01:20:06):
And even people, you know, students who are embarking on
college then have to have the reality of this in
their imagination. The parents of students who are going off
to college have to have it in the back of
their minds, you know it really.

Speaker 5 (01:20:21):
I mean, it's hard to send your kids off to college,
I would imagine, right like, oh my gosh, you knows,
leaving the nest and whatnot. Now there's this added, you know,
these four beautiful students who were just mining their own business,
living life.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
You know, it reminded me a little bit, you know,
I don't This is not a apples to apples in
any universe. But the lone wolf, I know, we've been
talking about this a lot, and yes, this gets touched
on in cells of course, and we talked about it
last night with the Pacific Palisades alleged arsonist, also a
lone wolf. You know, do we look at Brian Coburger know,

(01:21:00):
also alone wolf. It's just the ripple from what that
one action seemed like in their head that night, Like
what if they just slept in What if they hadn't
you know, made that left turn and instead, you know,
got stopped by somebody and picked up by a friend,
and like the day just changed. Just what is it

(01:21:24):
about little day? Yes, had it been one different interaction
at the coffee shop or at the dry cleaner or
in traffic, like is it possible that it wouldn't have happened?
And I just I get so stuck in my head.
I know, it's like talking about infinity, but it does
check me sometimes, it really does.

Speaker 7 (01:21:45):
It does, And I personally try to stay away from
that thinking that, Yeah, that thinking for me absolutely can
be a loop. And if it's especially something bad gonna happened,
what if I hadn't?

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
What if I hadn't? What if I hadn't? And I
find it to be a dangerous place for me to
say it's not productive in any way. But again, imagine
being a family member or on any side of it.
So as we discuss these cases as a full picture,
you know, there's so many perspectives to take into account,
because yeah, it's the uber driver to the human that

(01:22:22):
they happened to pick up on just the weird night,
that there happened to be rain or there happened to
be snowg What are the elements that all played A
dark gas driver, the door dash driver, mark. I don't know.
We talk about cases every night that how the lowest
common denominator is murder and death as the answer is

(01:22:44):
shocking on every level, and sometimes it's really shocking that
it it's a sum of like these little small things
that somehow took a weird turn. On Olivia. Who's Kaylee's sister.

Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
She was Kaylee Gonzalez was one of the victims of
Branco in the Idaho student murders in Olivia. A couple
maybe last week I think posted a TikTok and in
this TikTok, it's the it's the video from the Corner
Club of that night and Maddie and Kaylee are at
the bar and they're just, you know, chit chatting, and
the text above the video it's heartbreaking. It says something

(01:23:19):
along the lines of I wish I could reach through
and tell them, you know, not to go home, you know,
like it's it's because it's from that night before they
went home, and I immediately started I mean I had
tears in my eyes watching this, and you know, they
were just I mean, we're all we're all full of life, right,
these are like literal twenty one year olds.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Like starting their life and their and they were happy.

Speaker 5 (01:23:46):
It's so sad. It's such a sad little video. And
my heart really just went out to Olivia for sharing
that with us, you know, like because I mean I
remember watching the grub the Twitch video of the rub trot, right, yeah,
it's thinking the same thing. And obviously, I mean I'm
not her sister. Obviously Olivia is gonna have this feeling

(01:24:06):
a lot stronger. But it was like, wow, I'm not
I'm not the only one that thinks that, Like I
wish I could tell them not the Bome, or I
wish I could tell them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
It's a Gabby Potito body cam video, Like, oh, things
change time. There's not a single person listening right now
that hasn't had the exchange on a dime, you know,
sometimes for the best and sometimes for the worst. And
you kind of push on, right, so listen as long
as there's not death. But yeah, it's a tough one
because it's you know, just when we least expect it,

(01:24:35):
so older loved ones close. We're not looking to be
macab in any way, and no, not at all, but
it's also kind of you know, go big or go home.
It's a reminder. Yeah, those are real, real, real problems
and troubles and anyway, full circle on the grief thing,
but there's something to it. Let's go to a talk
about Hi ladies.

Speaker 13 (01:24:56):
Sarah from Michigan. I was wondering if you saw that
the beef Wellington poisoner in Australia was sentenced to life,
but thirty three years she'll be eligible for parole. And
you know, when I first saw that, I was like,
oh my gosh, that's awful. She should be in there
without any chance of parole. But then I realized she's
fifty one, and then she'd be like eighty four, and

(01:25:19):
then I was like, well, I guess she can get
out after that long.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
What do you guys think? I love, It's fine. This
is why I thought so hilarious. Right, do you not
get it? I get that, I totally get it. But again,
where's the curve? Who gets the greater of this? Who
gets them to be the greater on this curve. I
don't know when I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:25:36):
Not, but I hear that.

Speaker 7 (01:25:39):
Like that, No, it's but it's so funny. And then
you look at I don't know how old Jane Fonda is.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
All right at least, and I mean, yeah, like them shape, Yeah,
you wish she doesn't buy new things anymore? Did I
read this? Correct me if I'm wrong, and I remember
sharing that, yeah, aficionado Jane fi to this, but I
did think I read that she doesn't buy anything new, Yeponda,

(01:26:09):
but she's committed to just recycling and feels like, you know,
all of this labels and celebrity and all of the
stuff is only bringing us down, by the way, I agree,
simple keep it.

Speaker 6 (01:26:22):
Say yeah, well, I'm not sure. I feel like to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Watch it's all take off for jewelry right now, for
the simple living.

Speaker 7 (01:26:32):
But we have it already, Like she is making a
statement about consumerism, So I.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
Purchasing.

Speaker 6 (01:26:40):
I'm receiving the shorter paroles because of the age. Like
if you commit some hoarendous crime, I think you need
to serve the time for it, and you know, whether
eighty ninety or whatever it is. I'm sorry, Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Tell that the granny killer granny from yesterday. Oh my god,
she is don'tur did.

Speaker 5 (01:27:00):
You guys watch that at all? I watched the sentence
Donna Addelson. She was sentenced yesterday. And her husband Harvey
gets up there and he's like, the Markles are liars
and Dan Markle is the victim and her his parents.
Dan's parents have custody of the grandchildren, right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
It's actually a custody dispute at this.

Speaker 5 (01:27:21):
Right, And and he gets up there and he admonishes
the victim's parents like this the entire Addelson family lunatics,
like one hundred percent. I mean, I just couldn't believe it.
And then he had the he had he had his
phone with him and it started ringing in the middle
of in the middle of court. It's like, oh my god,

(01:27:43):
they're so like entitled and disrespectful. And I checked this
morning again. There's a Twitter account did Wendy get arrested?
I still check in every way.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
Wendy had no idea that maybe Wendy was raised in
this nutty household with nutty mom and dad. And she
had no idea. She was like, look, I'm not trying
to get on I made the mistake of like lamenting
to my mom. I didn't know she was a hitman.
Is it possible that Wendy was in the dark this
old time. Maybe she loved the husbands and maybe the
husband wasn't you know that, you know, the granny had

(01:28:17):
the issue with the husband. By the way, imagine the
husband's family, you know, the Markells stuff to hear that.

Speaker 5 (01:28:24):
Now they're listening to this and now they're getting like this,
they're getting called the liars by killer's husband like that
was terrible during her Like it's just during her sentencing,
he's like, oh the Markel's are I just was like,
Harvey shut ups.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Like the rest Harvey? Is Harvey gonna get arrested?

Speaker 6 (01:28:42):
Or was he?

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
So I think he's in the dark.

Speaker 5 (01:28:44):
Yeah, I think Harvey, Well he was going to Vietnam
with her, right, so, I mean maybe he.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Was in the airplane when she got pulled off of
it and arrested on the carmat Do I am I
remembering that correctly? I actually don't. They were like they
weregible but winning are you? Are you is your last name? Madelson?
Are you trying to get out of the country right now?
Would you mind coming with us? Right, and that was

(01:29:10):
the end of it. That was the end of Granny. Well,
I guess listen more on that to come. I wish
we had ten more hours. Honestly, I could do this
for fifteen more hours straight. Let's stay up all night
and high tracks right now, high fives EVERYBODYI I wish
we could so, but listen. We will be back tomorrow night.

(01:29:30):
So thank you for tuning in for talk back Tuesday.
I don't know why I said it that way, talk
Back Tuesday talk but yes Wednesdays please, we like talkbacks
on Wednesdays too, so don't let the Tuesday thing trip
you out. Please. You can leave us a message eight
eight eight three one crime just gave us a voicemail
or a talkback iHeartRadio app Oh my goodness. You could

(01:29:53):
also hit us up on our socials. There's really no excuse.
And tomorrow we have a huge show What's happening Tomorrow.

Speaker 6 (01:30:00):
We are going to have Sheena Robinson on and then
oh yes, yeah, she's going to come back and talk
about a case we should know about.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
All right, troll Crime tonight, stay safe, good night,

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