New Trial Date Set in Bryan Kohberger Case, Closing Arguments Begin in Diddy's RICO Trial, and the 2021 Moab Tragedy — Newlyweds Killed While Camping - True Crime Tonight

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on Iheat Radio. We're talking
true crime all the time. We have a stacked night
of headlines here on June twenty sixth, So listen.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm Stephanie Leidecker.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and
we have a big night because, as you well know,
Diddy's prosecution, the trial is coming to a close and
we had a big day today of closing arguments. We
also have, of course, our very own Jarret Ferrantino. He'll
be joining us to kind of break down the latest
developments there. We also have a special person in the house,

(00:51):
director and executive producer of The Idaho Student Murders, which
we're doing now for Peacock and that hasn't aired yet.
And also she also did the Pike how Many Murders
with us, So we have some inside scoop.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
And all things documentaries. But first we're going to get
right into ditty. So where should we begin?

Speaker 4 (01:09):
I mean, listen, I can't wait for this to be over.
I I'm ja done. Yeah, I'm dittied out and this
needs to be wrapped up as soon as possible. So
closing arguments began today in the trial against Sean Diddy Combes.
The prosecution highlighted his multiple I'm saying multiple reco predicate
acts and with an emphasis on sex trafficking. The defense

(01:31):
is set to counter tomorrow. Remember they were saying they
were going to need three to four hours the procet
and nowt to wrap everything up. Prosecutors alleged that from
two thousand and four to twenty twenty four did he
operated a criminal enterprise that involved kidnapping, arson, bribery, and
sex trafficking. And they're saying that he used his influence
in the music industry to lure people in and he's

(01:52):
facing life in prison. Diddy has pled not guilty to
all of the charges. So today was the basically the
United States government wrapping up their case and telling the
jury like a summary of what everything that they presented.
And it was given by the Assistant United States Attorney
Christy Slavic. She broke down each charge and how didty

(02:16):
relates to each of those charges. She said, there's a
criminal enterprise. She called Ditty the leader of this violent
criminal enterprise behind crimes including sex trafficking, bribery, and kidnapping.
She said there were racketeering acts. Now, these are all
the predicate acts of Rico that Diddy is being accused of.
She also said the jury must unanimously find that Ditty

(02:41):
knowingly agreed to commit at least two. Remember I've been
talking about two predicate acts for Rico. We learned that
from you, my friend. You did I'm so proud of
are you the racketeering I'm the Rico queen. Apparently, as
like if you only knew, such as drug distribution, bribery,
and sex trafficking. For the drug distribution, she said, drug

(03:03):
distribution was essential to each freakoff. In order to have
these freak offs, they had to be like hyped up
on drugs and they needed these drugs for combs, you know,
to see and.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
They needed to be distributed and moved around and cured.
And they have many witnesses who spoke to what went
into all of.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
That, right, and sometimes this went on for days at
a time. So there were all kinds of you know,
hotel arrangements, there were you know items bought. You know,
we've heard so much about the baby oil. We get it,
but still, like if you've seen any of the photographs,
they needed the baby oil, they needed the drugs, They
needed the hotel. They needed security to be there, They
needed staff to come in after the freak offs days

(03:43):
later to clean the clean the hotel rooms. Like that
was an organized machine or was it?

Speaker 4 (03:49):
The jury's going to decide that. I guess that's not
really for us to decide, right, Yeah. She also cited
Ventura's Cassie, Remember Cassie. She also cited Cassie's claim that
did he force her to stay in a hotel for
a week after an assault and called it kidnapping, and
then also noted Capricorn Clark's testimony about being locked in
that building with the light detector test. Remember that, so

(04:11):
remind us of that again. So Capricorn Clark, she worked
for Diddy and he accused her of stealing some jewelry
if I remember correctly correct, And he forced her to
be in this warehouse for days with armed you know,
there was like a bodyguard like prohibiting her from leaving,
and she had to get a light detector test for
like three or four days. I can't remember the exact

(04:31):
amount of days. Was it three days?

Speaker 3 (04:33):
It was three days?

Speaker 2 (04:34):
And can you imagine you have a boss who now
has accused you of something, and you know, maybe if
you've been accused of stealing, you would maybe get fired.
But in this case, Diddy decides to have his security
and himself take her to a warehouse allegedly and lock
her up to a light detector test where she was
subjected to them time and time again. Do you know
how scary and insane that would be? Just think about that.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
I mean, I if that happened to me, I'd be like, okay,
of course, but she was held captive.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
And also keep in mind, we also know that Diddy
allegedly had many guns, and a lot of these things
were happening with guns in mind. So Cassie Ventura, his
ex girlfriend, claimed that as well. Is that part of
the reason that she couldn't leave, she didn't feel as
though she could is because he was a dangerous, be violent.
We've seen the video where he was obviously very violent.

(05:25):
That was probably just the tip of the iceberg, and
he was armed.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
That goes to bribery. So one another predicate act is
this bribery allegation in twenty sixteen at the hotel where
Diddy was seen in surveillance footage physically assaulting Cassie, that
video that's been widely circulated, while he later paid like
a total of one hundred thousand dollars to hotel staffers
to keep it quiet and to delete the footage. Right, Yeah,

(05:52):
so that's bribery.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
And then I just want to say on that, I
feel like, so there are seven predicate acts.

Speaker 6 (05:59):
I believe it.

Speaker 5 (06:00):
I know we'll continue going through those. Yeah, but I
have to say that bribery one seems like one would
be an absolute slam dunk. We have all seen the
footage of Cassie being beaten by Ditty. He has apologized
so with holding a towel exactly, that's the video her
up and kicking her in the face. And then also

(06:20):
the people who took the bribes, you know, they were
granted immunity, I believe, but they confirmed that, so I
feel like they're halfway there to the rico charge exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
And the security guard that did not take the bribe,
he said specifically that he you know's he witnessed it,
he knew that he was being he was being very violent,
and you know that she was basically kind of being
held captive in so many ways, Like what was she
supposed to do in that situation? She was trying to leave,
she was beaten to the ground and then dragged by

(06:50):
her hair back to the situation. If that happens once
to a normal human being, you're a little afraid to
do it twice. We also know that there have been
report after report after report and photograph proof of many
times that he was abusing his ex girlfriends, certainly Cassie Ventura.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
Hmmm. While he's also being accused of witness tampering and obstruction.
Diddy tried to silence witnesses after Cassie's twenty twenty three
lawsuit and was denied bail three times for allegedly obstructing
that investigation. Another one is the transportation, and we've talked
about this one quite a bit, right, the transportation to
engage in prostitution. He paid for people to travel for

(07:31):
sex with Cassie. So those are some and then of
course the sex trafficking. So those are some of the
you know, the summary of what the prosecution outlined to
the jury today and their closing arguments. Wow, I listen,
they only need two, but the jury has to unanimously
agree on it. If there's just one juror, that's like, eh,
I don't think they proved any of them. And that

(07:52):
juror member has like a strong head like think of
like twelve angry men, right, Oh, yes, critical thinking. If
there's one juror that's like, no, I don't buy this evidence.
I didn't think this witness was trustworthy or you know, whatever,
whatever their argument might be, then he's not going to
be convicted.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
And if he's not convicted, is it possible for there
to be a hung jury or it's just done?

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Zoen over and he walks.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
That's a good question. Maybe we should ask Jarrett when
he comes.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
To Yeah, Jarrett Farantino, who's prosecuted so many major crimes,
specifically in Philadelphia, but he really does know the racket here.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Because I'm just curious.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
I know there's a big difference between federal charges and
state charges, and I guess that's the sophie's choice we're
in right now. Right if we've seen that Diddy was
clearly violent and he was very abusive to the women
in his world, but again, he's not being brought up
on domestic violence charges by the state. He's being brought
up on something much larger. And you know, some of

(08:48):
the chatter is that maybe he was overcharged, and if
that's the case, does he just walk?

Speaker 5 (08:54):
Oh man, we want to hear your thoughts eighted eight
three to one crime. Which way are you going in
this mo or? You can always hit us on the
talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 6 (09:05):
You just go to the app.

Speaker 5 (09:06):
And in the upper right hand corner you click on
that red microphone and leave us a message. But now
we're going to bring in who Stephanie mentioned, former homicide
prosecutor Jarrett Farentino. He has a veteran trial attorney. He's
handled some of Pennsylvania's most high profile murder cases and
now he's a national legal analyst and a true crime expert,

(09:27):
co host of the YouTube series Primetime Crime, and he's
hosted the podcast True Crime Boss.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
Thank you so much, Jared.

Speaker 7 (09:35):
Jared Jed, Hello, it's good you know you three ride
is such a nice job of summarizing that case. I
don't think I have anything to say.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, if you can just pots from here on out, Jarrett.
We also have Katherine Park here today. So it is
a big, huge love fest here in the studio.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
So so much more on this.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
To Cod Jared, we had a question. We had a
question about is it possible in a federal try I
like such as this, that there could be a hung jury.

Speaker 7 (10:04):
Yes, there could be a hung jury if they don't
reach unanimous decision either way. So it is entirely possible.
But one thing you said, I think, all of over
four hours of what a powerful closing argument you were
talking about that bribery. And Christy Slovic she took that
bribery and she used that as a great example of

(10:26):
Ditty's intent and how it fed into the larger operation
of the enterprise. She said they paid Eddie Perez one
hundred thousand. The defense says this was the PR move.
They didn't want the domestic violence to come out. All
the while they point out that Ditty was talking about
there won't be a police report, don't spend the money
too fast so the police don't find out, And those

(10:48):
things were showing this consciousness of knowing that police could
become involved. And this wasn't a PR move. It's like the.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
Self aware that what he did was wrong.

Speaker 7 (10:59):
Yeah, he actually put the money through a counting machine
like a scene out of Scarface and pays it off
and with the hopes of insulating himself from prosecution. That's bribery,
and that's using the enterprise. That's a great crystallization of
exactly what he's charged with, the predicative bribery and serving
the larger enterprise. I thought it was an awesome concrete example.

(11:21):
How do you walk away from that say that didn't happen.
I didn't see enough evidence of that.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
It's power right, Well, so I think I think that one,
the bribery and the transportation to engage in prostitution are
the two predicate acts that I think the jury can
agree on. I mean, what do you guys think, what
are you.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
For clarity for? You know, anyone who's not playing along
close enough?

Speaker 2 (11:42):
You know, the escorts that were having sexual relationships with
Cassie Ventur and later we heard this from Jane his
other ex that was her pseudonym is Jane. The idea
is that they started taking escorts mail escorts in this case,
and taking them around the world, so these freak offs,
these hotel nights would happen with some you know air

(12:04):
quotes usual suspects and you know, look, that's transporting and
there is a lot of intent behind that. But will
the jury be expecting that transportation thing to be you know,
young girls in the dead of night.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
That we're being do you think because they were men
may sports?

Speaker 6 (12:21):
That's a fair point.

Speaker 5 (12:22):
I think that we will let Jarrett think about that
after the break and give us his informed opinion idea,
because I need some help breaking this down. We're going
to be coming back and joined with Jarrett Farantino, as
I said, and talking about the prosecution's.

Speaker 6 (12:38):
Case in Shawn did Comb's later.

Speaker 5 (12:40):
It's Pride month and we have important cases to highlight.
Don't forget to call us eight at eight three one crime,
keep it here, True crime tonight.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
So Jarrett, back to you.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
So we're talking about, you know, this transportation piece of
the Ditty case because if you're just joining us everyone,
the prosecution had its closing arguments today in court. In
the Ditty case, he is facing potentially life behind bars,
but in reality, you know that seems to be a
moving target right now, pun intended. So yesterday we know

(13:21):
that some of the charges were not reduced but streamlined.
And Jarrett, you know this transportation charge or predicate.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
You know, is that going to hold up.

Speaker 7 (13:31):
Well, that's up to the jury, as we said, But
I do think I do think that Christy Slavic did
a great job. What she did today was she gave
a little bit of law and a lot of fact.
So she would set up the transportation of Cassie and
Jane under forced coercion, So they're being transported for a
commercial sex act. And she's saying, when you do that

(13:54):
and there's force and there's coercion and there's drugs to
induce that commercial sex act, violating the transportation for commercial
sexual purposes, It's almost like, how how do you look
at that and say the burden hasn't been met? And
the answer to the defense has been saying is well,
we say it was adults consenting, adults acting not in

(14:16):
a commercial sex capacity, but as a consensual sexual act.
I thought she did a great job. Every time she
would just lace her examples with what the defense was saying.
The defense says, this is domestic violence, not sex trafficking.
She said, no, it's violence with a purpose that serves

(14:36):
an enterprise. That's not just domestic violence, it's sex trafficking
and that's what that's the distinction with a tremendous difference,
and she did a great job of bringing that point
home to the jury.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
I agree at us brawl.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
It's so refreshing when you break things down, because sometimes
we get a little confused by a lot of this
back and forth. So thank you for breaking that down.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
One of the other questions that I had was there
was this infamous you know beat down. You know, Cassie Ventura,
Diddy's ex allegedly allegedly allegedly was beaten pretty senselessly, and
therefore he didn't want anyone to find out and certainly
didn't want to get police involved, so he he basically
forced Cassie Ventura, his ex girlfriend, to recover at the

(15:20):
London Hotel in Los Angeles, which is a lovely, beautiful hotel,
not unless you're there to recover from injuries that you
sustained from your boyfriend, because he didn't really want anyone
to see her, and there was security there and allegedly
she couldn't leave against her will for a minimum of
seven days. I believe is that the transportation part of this.

Speaker 7 (15:41):
Also, well, there's a kidnapping component to that, right, sompargument.
So that's really where that factored in. The transportation is
the actual transporting folks with vehicles right right state line,
so it's an actual transportation. Sometimes the federal laws say
exactly what they need sometimes, which is sometimes they're clear,

(16:01):
so it means it means transporting someone for commercial sex acts.
The keeping Cassie in the hotel against her will, there
were bodyguards at the door, things of that nature. That's
a lawful restraint typically in the state and kidnapping, So
that's what it is at the federal level. So it
serves both ends of those charges. Though it goes to
the course, it goes to force.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, how about it unlawful restraint. She's like literally being
shoved in a hotel room, whether his hotel or not.
She's still like recovering because she's been beaten up so badly.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
I mean, when you say unlawful restraint, I don't know why,
but that combination of words really kind of solidifies it
for me. That's kidnapping.

Speaker 7 (16:40):
Wow. You know, the defense is saying, look, he regretted
what happened, he wanted to get better. He put her
up in this nice hotel. I mean, come on, come on,
keeping her out of He was keeping her out of
the view of anybody who sees the results of the beating,
the melee he put upon her in that.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Video, because he's self aware that what he did was punishable.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Exactly, and it's a bad look.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
And also we also know that it was a paying
off the optics for security to get rid of that
original videotape from that other hotel. Also, we happened to
know that he was carrying guns, et cetera. What happened
to this bond guy, there was a security guard there.
Also that Capricorn Clark when she was getting her lie
detector tests, that's a former assistant who was accused of

(17:24):
stealing jewelry that we were talking about in the last segment.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Remember she kind of was saying that he.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Would throw her in the East River if she was
in any way out of line. So not only is
she being taken to this weird warehouse, then she strapped
to a light detector test and asked to take multiple
detector tests, which is insane. And then on top of that,
he said, look, if you give me any trouble or
you talk to your former boss, Suge Knight, I'll toss

(17:49):
you in the East River. That to me seems like
it's got to fall into one of these predicates.

Speaker 7 (17:54):
Well, well, who tossed bodies in the East River, who
takes people to warehouses? Who has lieutenants?

Speaker 4 (18:00):
The Mafia, the Mob?

Speaker 3 (18:01):
I know.

Speaker 7 (18:03):
She did a great Christy Slavic did a great job
of painting puff Daddy as the godfather. She said he
had lieutenants, he has foot soldiers, he has king he
has a kingdom of loyal subjects. His mansions, I would
be saying, are as castles, his cars are his chariots.
It's just like, this is a corrupt organization that looks

(18:26):
like the Mafia. And we have Rico, which was invented
to get the Mafia, and it's now being used to
get Diddy.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
I have a question Jared about Rico. You've done a
lot of Mafia related trials, like you know in Pennsylvania's
it's right by Jersey, and you know, like you know,
I think of all being soprano. Can you tell us
about how the Mafia inspired this, this nineteen seventy two
Rico act and what does RICO stand for?

Speaker 7 (18:51):
What happened? Now? I haven't personally done mob trials, but
I oh, I think it following mobri I have. But
let me just tell you. I'll admit I know people
that were in admits the mafia. So let's talk. Let's
break it down.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
Are you there?

Speaker 7 (19:10):
You go, yeah, no, I'm not. But here's how it worked.
You would have the five families in New York and
you have you have these bosses, you know, in back
in their houses making their foot soldiers carry out their bidding,
and it's five people deep. They whisper to one person,
go tell this person, and the only people being held

(19:30):
accountable was the slayer who was carrying out the directive
of the mob boss. Rico was created to get to
the top of the organization. It's like these foot soldiers
are carrying out the will of a boss. We can
reverse engineer this crime and get to the top. That's
the theory on which it was created. It was created
in the seventies, but it was used, ironically for the

(19:53):
first time by Rudy Giuliani, currently facing federal charges.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Ironic so I mean he lost.

Speaker 7 (20:00):
He successfully locked the top of the heads of the
five families in New York using the Rico charge. That's
what he did, and that's what they're trying to do
in Diddy. It was expanded to corporations and street gangs
too eventually, but that's really the origin of.

Speaker 5 (20:17):
That interesting I have one more question, Jared. You've been
so helpful to help break these charges down. I'm curious
how you think the prosecution did with presenting the witness
tampering and obstruction. I know Combs had tried to silence
some witnesses after Cassie Ventura his Exes twenty twenty three
lawsuit and was denied bail three times for allegedly obstructing

(20:41):
the investigation.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, he was like that straight up.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
He was allegedly, you know, bullying them a little bit
and trying to get two witnesses.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Is that accurate, Jarrett?

Speaker 7 (20:52):
Yes? So the greatest So, the greatest affront to our
system is when you are charged and you're basically impacting
the ability to have a full and fair trial and
intimidating witnesses. It has a chilling effect on those witnesses.
It is a chilling effect on investigations going forward because
witnesses won't come forward. So he was denied bail because

(21:13):
when Cassie's lawsuit came out and there were whipers of
an investigation. He called Jane and he said to her,
I need your friendship and you won't have to worry
about anything. What does it mean? I need you to
lie for me and I will pay you to do it.
And that's witness intimidation. That's well, it's a form of
bribery too, That's what he did. What does it tell you?
It tells you it's consciousness of guilt. He's saying I

(21:36):
did something wrong. I'm trying to bias a witness against me,
and I'm interfering with the truth and this investigation. It's
frowned upon when you're trying to get bail, of course,
and as a prosecutor you love that because you say,
if these people are lying, what's he trying to pay
them off for?

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Exactly? Why is he going to that extra layer? And
you know, we always wondered about I think he was Gina.
There was that, you know, witness number three, who never
ever testified because you know, the suspicion was allegedly, allegedly
allegedly that you know, somebody had gotten to her or
maybe she was you know, petrified by the way for

(22:16):
very good reason. We're now seeing how about the fact
that witnesses are coming forward and putting themselves in harm's
way because this guy could potentially get off. Was there
any other ongoings about Gina specifically or the reasons why
she didn't appear in court.

Speaker 7 (22:32):
It's been basically inferred that either she was so afraid
based on what she'd seen in the past and what
he was doing after the see. One of the things
about what this intimidation that's important is the defendant basically
has to know the criminal charges or pending to interfere
or tamper with the case. So when they do that,

(22:53):
she may have become aware of what he was doing.
He need not have gotten after her directly. Now there's
some alligations that he has and some intimations that he has,
but we don't know for sure. But also just the
general what do they say, snitches get stitches.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Es do get stitches. I'm from Long Island.

Speaker 7 (23:12):
That is accurate, right, And they're afraid. So that's what
happens in these cases. You do have people people don't
want to be in a courtroom to begin with, let
alone staring down a more powerful billionaire, former boss, former lover,
former abuser and tell all the bad things that happened
to them, knowing full well the government may not be

(23:34):
able to protect them fully.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Well, stay with us. We're going to continue to follow
this and when we come back, we're going to be
doing some breaking news in the Idaho college murders. There's
been some new information coming out from the Idaho court
system about suspect Brian Coberger's strial, and later we're going
to be taking time to highlight some important cases within
the LGBTQ community. Keep it right here through Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
And we have Jarrett Farantino with us. He's breaking down
all things Diddy for us, all things did he.

Speaker 5 (24:12):
I have a question actually about something that you had
mentioned last night, Jarrett, and I believe you throughout that
the federal federal cases have a high nineties success rate
of prosecution.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Is that right? Yeah, that was very interesting to me too.

Speaker 7 (24:27):
So the word on the street and the nomenclature is
basically they say the Feds have a ninety eight percent
conviction rate. Now that includes pleading cases out. It basically
means they rarely lose. And it's that's a true statement.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Is that because they take they when they take a
case and decide to go to trial or press charges.
They feel like all of their ducks in a row.
I mean, I know that's that would be every prosecutor's goal,
but what makes.

Speaker 6 (24:57):
That so high.

Speaker 7 (24:59):
The federal system differs from the state system because, first
of all, you have the top investigators in the field.
You're dealing with the FBI, DEAATS customs, so you have
just great law enforcement, really experience attorneys as assistant US attorneys,
and they have oftentimes the luxury of time to put
their cases together. They don't bring a case unless they

(25:21):
believe strongly. Oftentimes, as a state prosecutor, you're dealing in
mass things will quickly. You're dealing with local law enforcement.
You don't have the resources of the federal government, so
your cases aren't always as strong, not to say they
don't meet their burden or the thresholds to that you
have to achieve as you move through the system. Federal cases,
it's first class more often than not.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
But you know, each the normal defendants, though, don't have
ten to twenty million dollars to throw at ten defense
attorneys though right, so, like did he isn't the normal defendant? Right?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
No?

Speaker 7 (25:54):
That may be the ultimate equalizer that may be right,
descent right.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Kind of bothersome because unless you have the finances to
really stack the deck with the greatest legal team of
all time, you're in trouble. And especially if it's a
crime you didn't commit. Can you imagine you can't even
really that's like my throw the dollars at it. It's
everybody's biggest fear, right. It's interesting because I feel like,
you know, there's been such a divided the polls are changing, Jarrett.

(26:23):
You know, yesterday it seemed like Diddy was going to walk. Today,
what little I've been able to glean, it seems like
there's a little bit of a differing opinion now that
the prosecution has laid out their closing arguments. But again,
even the studio here is still pretty divided that you know,
he may walk or you know, see some time. I
guess there's really no way to know.

Speaker 7 (26:43):
I think that when you have a case that's seven
weeks long, there are days where you're focused on whatever
was said that day or whatever was said over the
you lose focus on the big picture. I think Christy
Slovic did a good job of tying it all together today,
where you say to yourself, oh, you know, it's not
what I thought. It wasn't that particular day I focused on.

(27:04):
It really related back to the testimony of Cassie or
Jane or I think, and that's the whole point of
closing arguments. And I think that's why today I think
you're going to see people go back the other way.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
You know, Can I ask you one quick question? It
always has bothered me. So when did he got arrested?
And again, like you know, the raids happened. We all
saw that on camera real time. You know, it seemed
like a military operation, both in bel Air and his
Miami location. And then he was in New York and
essentially turned himself in, right, he turned himself into the
Feds in the hotel. I always wondered why, like he

(27:39):
has all these unlimited resources. When he gave his apology
video to Cassie Ventura, when that tape you know, was
released and leaked, you know, it seemed as though he
was I don't know in my head he was in Bali,
I don't know where he was, but at that point
he seemed like pretty like a cool cucumber turning himself in.
My gut on it was, which again matters for nothing

(28:00):
is that he was pretty okay with it and felt
like it would be a short lived stint, if at all,
Does that resonate at all, because maybe that was accurate.
If it in fact gets off, it was a terrible
few months for Diddy, But you know at the end
of the day he'll be back doing his old thing again.
Or or is that completely how it normally happens. When

(28:20):
it's the FEDS, you turn yourself in and I guess
that's not up for conversation, right.

Speaker 7 (28:24):
Well, first of all, you'd be hard pressed for Diddy
to find anywhere in the world where he can hide.
Everybody knows who he is, so I don't know that
that was an otion trend. The other thing is the
government can apply a tremendous amount of pressure. It could
be calling his lawyers saying if he doesn't come in
within forty eight hours, we're indicting his son for this,
his daughter for this. People around him were taking the house.

(28:45):
We're doing where they really start to apply the cap pressure.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, Remember they were handcuffed, right, So.

Speaker 7 (28:52):
And I'm not suggesting that he did anything wrong. I'm
only saying that there could be things going beyond behind
the scenes that compel his appearance, But the reality is
there's no word he could hide, and at that point
he's trying to control as much as this as he
can and hold his head high and turn himself in.
But it's pretty common because you would rather someone surrender
themselves said they have to go get them by force

(29:14):
and risk an agent being hurt or the defendant or
members of their family being hurt. So when you can
negotiate that, you try to negotiate it.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Totally fair. Thank you for that answer.

Speaker 6 (29:24):
So interesting.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
How did you get into the law and why the
prosecution side of things.

Speaker 7 (29:31):
Well, I got into the laws as a young man.
I was a kid. I took care of my uncle,
who was a paraplegic. I was a little boy, and
I loved advocating for him. And it had nothing to
do with law other than I just liked fighting for
people that couldn't fight for themselves, And as I grew up,
I just thought my God to be given the opportunity
to fight for victims. That was my dream for a while,

(29:52):
and I did it for twenty years. That's how I
did it. But taking care of my uncle was the
first experience of just kind of helping people that couldn't
do it everything for themselves, you know, and that's kind
of where I found that same inspiration and prosecution.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Oh that's so nice. I a little choked up.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Are because you're doing it for like the right reasons.
You're being an advocate like you were for your uncle.

Speaker 7 (30:14):
Guarded that way, Yeah, stuarded that way.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, that runs out eventually.

Speaker 4 (30:19):
The motivation is important. I think that's amazing. I think
that's really amazing. Can I ask you another personal question? Personal?

Speaker 3 (30:26):
But what do you think?

Speaker 4 (30:27):
This isn't really personal at all?

Speaker 6 (30:29):
What you should have seen the questions earlier?

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Jared?

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Right right?

Speaker 4 (30:35):
What are what are some I'm sorry I lost no,
I completely lost my train. I thought I can't remember
what I was going to sadd what I was going
to ask somebody else?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Go.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Let's talk about the legal team that he has put there.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
He is a pretty dynamic team, right, an expensive one
at the bare minimum.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
I mean, these these folks are the top of the
food chain right now, you know, these are these are
the lawyers for all the big cases coming out. And
when you put together Mark and Philio and Tenny Geragos,
I mean they're the big time. You know, Tenny is
Mark Garrigos, who I've done a few shows where Mark's
on the panel, but we're talking Mendes Brothers and all

(31:16):
the big cases that he's had. It's in her blood,
you know. So uh and Mark and Philios. He's representing
Luigi man Gione. He was on the Rainier case. So
this is these are folks that when you're in a
case that's high profile, it adds a whole nother component
to your preparation, to the management of the case. These

(31:37):
are folks that aren't strangers to that. Tenny grew up
in that world, and Philio and his wife and they're
part of this. Now. You know, you get under those
lights and in that ring, things change. You know, things change,
and you have to have lawyers that can deal with
that and can manage all of the components of the case.
And they're very good lawyers. Their backgrounds there are phenomenal too.

(32:00):
They're no slouches. I mean, these are lawyers that go
to top tier law schools. They clerk for federal judges.
They have prosecutorial experience. Like, there are no strangers to that.
Corporate they know they don't want someone right, they know
they know the major leagues and that's where they're at.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
And are there any trials?

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Are there any trials that you're familiar with that are
really like kind of similar to Ditty's.

Speaker 7 (32:22):
I would say the closest to Ditty's was like probably
a mob case where you have a large Yeah, I
would say, because you have a person at the top
that The thing that's odd about Ditty's when you compare
it to the mob is he's sitting alone in that courtroom.
He doesn't have soldiers and lieutenants in there next to
him as defendants. But the most akin to his case

(32:44):
of this, you have a large, wealthy operation run by
one leader and then there's this chain of command and
that's what the prosecutors has done. So I would say
it's most akin to that.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Wow. Yeah, So like Diddy's a real mafia boss, basic world.

Speaker 7 (33:00):
There's he is, he's accused of being and he appears.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
To be right, Yes he does. Does he have made don.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Are his made men? The bodyguards?

Speaker 3 (33:11):
That are?

Speaker 1 (33:11):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 (33:12):
Like, Well, that's that's kind of what they tried to
that's what they try to create, you know. But and
the other thing is I thought that Christy did a
really good job of creating that constant fhere, Like the
one thing about being in that mob life is you
live under fear. Here's capricorn. Clark is an employee one minute,
next thing you know, she's locked up taking a lie

(33:33):
detector test. Cassie is a beloved girlfriend. She's she essentially
has an anvil of violence hanging over her head if
she doesn't engage in the hotel nights and the freak
ops Like, none of this sounds like anybody was having
a good time. It sounds like like living in hell.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
Yeah, all right, another question, This one's a hard one.
You're you're a federal prosecutor, you're a United States attorney?
Do you take this case?

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Well, that's a good quest question.

Speaker 7 (34:02):
Yeah, And I'll tell you what's special about the group
of US attorneys that took this I think it's not
lost on me that it's the team of women prosecuting him.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Women's hatter.

Speaker 7 (34:12):
And I'll tell you what. And they're ages. They grew
up when Diddy was making hits. You know, they know
who Diddy is. And these are professional women with extensive
backgrounds in prosecuting sex crimes. And that is a special
breed of prosecutor. They are routinely exposed to horrible crimes.
I'm sure they're raising their own families and going home

(34:34):
at night. They're tough, and they're exactly the team you
want to prosecute. All the money in the world isn't
going to scare these ladies.

Speaker 5 (34:41):
And that's exactly right, well said. Thank you so much
for joining us, Jared Farantino. Everybody, Jared Tarantino are always
so great. Everybody tune into his YouTube series Primetime Crime
and his podcast True Crime Boss wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
It's always such a joy when he's here because really
breaks it down.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Yeah, he makes it so easy, you understand. So this
really complex, you know, legal system that we're we're fighting
and battling with all the time, he makes it just
so digestible.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
It really is so true. And you know, listen, these
charges in the Ditty case. It's significant because even just
last week we saw the significance of that in the
Karen Reid trial and the charges and the jury instruction
and how they have to interpret the information before giving
their their verdict, if you will. So it's really important stuff.
And I think it's incredible that we get to unpack it.

(35:32):
You know, he had mentioned this extraordinary legal team that
did he has and then also the prosecution side, and look,
he's right, you know, the sex trafficking you know is
really for example, one of the main lawyers on the
prosecution side. She also was the Gilaane Maxwell, you know,
prosecutor and brought justice there as well. There's obviously a

(35:52):
lot of similarities sometimes being brought up between the Ditty
trial and the Epstein trial. So you know, all the
h Ditty's team is millions and millions of dollars worth potentially, you.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Know, the prosecution they don't get that same pay. Right.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
They're doing this in a lot of ways because they
believe in putting the bad guy behind bars and working
for us the people and keeping us safe. So a
we're very grateful for all sides for doing such an
extraordinary job.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
And you know, I'm just really curious how it's all
going to play out.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
We want to hear from you eight eight eight three
to one crime Will Diddy walk? I guess that's the
question of the moment.

Speaker 5 (36:29):
Cor It sure is well speaking of high profile cases
with tons of cash behind them, Justin Baldoni is not
moving forward with submitting an amended claim against Blake Lively
and Ryan Reynolds amid their legal battle over the movie
It Ends with Us. So this started back in late

(36:49):
twenty twenty four. Blake Lively, the actress, filed a complaint
against Justin Baldoni, her co star and director, and she
accused him of sexual harassment and creating a toxic work
and VI during filming the movie It Ends with Us.
She also alleged Baldonian his team orchestrated a smear campaign
against her. So Baldoni then denied the allegations filed a

(37:10):
counter suit, but that has now been dismissed.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, it's crazy because he's so hot about it. Well,
it's also a lot of money. Think about it. So
Justin Baldoni is just you know, a director and a man, right,
He's not a man that as far as we know
that is from like crazy amounts of affluence. But he
has a partner and that partner is Wayfarer, and they
apparently have you know, pretty deep pockets, you know, for

(37:34):
all of their hard work. So I think that partnership
was really funding this this legal battle. And think about it,
this has been going on for a while. You're dealing
with Blake Lively, you know, by proxy Ryan Reynolds, you know,
the very famous movie star, and they've been dumping some
cash into it. If he didn't withdraw at this point,
it's very possible that Baldoni could have been on the

(37:56):
hook for the appeals process. He could have been on
the holl fees, her legal fees. I can't even imagine
the amount of money that this was the countersuit, right,
that was the countersuit. So frankly, Justin still has to
face deposition and such for this upcoming lawsuit that is
now going to be in March twenty twenty six. That

(38:17):
was set that goes back to Blake Lively's original complaint
against him. So like, it's not over, but he has
withdrawn his countersuit.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
I foresee a settlement.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
They better settle, It's not Depositions are an all expensive.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
I just can't imagine.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, I think they're going to settle.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I think you're right about that, because look, next thing,
you know, this could turn into the new version of
Amber versus Johnny, right, the Johnny.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Trial, the Amber Herd trial. Nobody won in that.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
I mean, I guess technically Johnny dep did, but Yeah,
enough about that. Listen, stay with us because we have
Catherine Park, director and executive producer who's going to give
us all the behind the scenes on the documentaries she's making.
More on that to come, because we also have some
headlines call us eight at eight to three, one Crime,
True Crime Tonight, talking true crime all the time. The

(39:17):
documentaries and podcasts, you know, they sometimes inspire each other
but are also very different. So Courtney and I made
the Idaho Massacre podcast and then I revolved that that's
you sure were That's right. And we've made several podcasts
with Body, also completely separately. So and Body, who also
was you know, the star of the Netflix documentary donep

(39:40):
with Cats, knows a thing or two about how this
is done right and knows a thing or two about
how important it is to handle with care right. So
a director of a documentary sort of takes the spirit
of things and then puts their own real spin on
it and really does their own deep dive.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
And Catherine Park is here with us in the studio.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
He's directed so many incredible projects on Netflix. Will know
the Dahmer case, the Gacy case. She also did our
Pie County Murders, which aired on Peacock and then now
is doing the Idaho student murders and it's really an
extraordinary case. So first and foremost, we're so happy you're here.

Speaker 8 (40:18):
Oh, thank you, thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
We got the real deal in the house.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
So yeah, at some point we kind of have to
pass the baton to you because again, we all made
the podcast, and then we want sort of fresh eyes
on it because you know, we all have our opinions
and that's pretty obvious based on the podcast, but we
want you to be able to have sort of a
fresh look at all of the evidence, all of the research,
and not be kind of swayed by anything. And I

(40:44):
think that's why you're so special at what you do
is a You're so kind and smart and well mannered
and gracious and so victim forward. That's really kind of
the name of the game, I think for all of us.
But I think why you know, it was love at
first sight. When Courtney and I first met you, we
were like, and it's Catherine, would do you not agree?

Speaker 6 (41:04):
Can I say something?

Speaker 5 (41:06):
So after we had first met, and I do remember
it so well, I went and that night I was
up so late watching both Dahmer and Gayy. It was
a long late night, but I remember and Gaysey. All
the stuff you do is unimpeachably beautiful. But your gay
Sy doc I mean I can literally remember every sort

(41:28):
of interview set up and there was one in a
diner and just I don't know. You have such a
beautiful way of bringing the place and the person together
and really helping the viewer get a vibe for just
the whole atmosphere of the world.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Do you remember in the job Well, I'm telling you
the director, do you put in the Gaycy documentary on Netflix?
They had that scary brown hallway where like it was
just like this hallway shot.

Speaker 8 (41:53):
Well, that was the real Gayy hallway, And one of
the ideas that we had was to animate the real
archival material so that you would feel as if you
were walking down the hall towards Gacy's bedroom, which was

(42:14):
slightly adjills.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
I don't want to think about it.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
It was so scary and we never saw what happened
in the bedroom because you're so classy about that or
not gratuitous, right, which is very very important and probably
your your special touch.

Speaker 8 (42:27):
Well, I think I think anybody who knows me knows
that I. You know, true crime is always you know,
there are recreations, there are the interview looks, there's verite,
and different shows have different styles depending on either access
or the the how what's organic to the story, like.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
What's the truth of it? Right? What's authentic to it?

Speaker 5 (42:54):
Right?

Speaker 8 (42:55):
So with Gacy, it's a completely different show because you're
dealing with archival material and so you're not going to
have that kind of verite that we had in Pike County.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
You did such a good job on Pike County.

Speaker 8 (43:10):
Thank you. But you know, so it's a show like Gaycy.
Conversations with a Killer John Wayne Gacy and Dahmer are
both really high production value interview looks, and part of
that was really important, as all true crime, is to
give a nod in the interview look to what is

(43:32):
organic to the story?

Speaker 6 (43:34):
Right? And you really do do that brilliantly.

Speaker 5 (43:36):
So a lot of people know, no, they like or
don't like certain documentaries, but a lot of the words
you were using, I don't know that people.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Are aware of how would you describe There's a couple
of things, yes.

Speaker 8 (43:49):
Right, So for example, in Conversations with a Killer that
took place in the nineteen eighties, right, So, and was
a very public figure and the case was was very
well documented and shot and the police were followed, so
we used we take all of that, all of that

(44:10):
footage that's quote unquote old, but we make it as
though you are living in it right now.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
That's such a good explanation because we use that word
a lot in the doc world, they call it archival.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
We use it on our podcast as well.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
So even like news footage things like that that kind
of bring you to the place. And you know, that
is a really big part of the richness to it
because it makes you feel very present.

Speaker 8 (44:37):
Yeah, and it's and it's also really important to have
editors who can work with that kind of material to
not make it seem past that you're actually the modern eighties, right.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
And also you brought up you know, the John Wayne
Gacy doc, the Dahmer doc. That is the one I
honestly think it is so scary to me, that's the
scariest case that's ever happened. And we won't digress on
that too much. But again, to take such dark material
and make it a palatable and you know, that's a

(45:14):
major piece of it, and it didn't ever feel gratuitous,
because again, you're dealing with such a sensitive topic, victims,
the sensitivity around that. There's really nobody that I think
does it better.

Speaker 8 (45:25):
Well, thank you, but I I really I dislike the
kind of recreation that has somebody walking down the hall
with a knife dripping with blood. That is my idea of.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Gratuitous.

Speaker 8 (45:41):
Yeah, you know, I don't think it's respectful to the families.
I don't think that it's it. Also, I think it
takes you out of the story.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
Well, you're telling the story of somebody's worst day, like
worst day ever, right, These true crime documentaries are literally
the worst day of somebody's life, and you do it
with real grace and real respect. And I, as a
true crime fan myself, appreciate that. What got you into
documentary filmmaking, Well, I think I.

Speaker 8 (46:09):
Always love stories, and I started from the very you know,
from the bottom of a production assistant and work my
way up. And uh I did because I understand then
everybody's role and know what it takes to, you know,

(46:30):
and I like to mentor a lot of you know,
especially young women, and help them in their careers.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
It's so true you know, Catherine also came up in
the Joe Berlinger Camp, which we've spoken about many times
because it's been cited here many times that so many
people's very first doc that they really remember was Memphis
three who were wrongfully convicted infamously and because of Joe
Berlinger the director, he was able to get them free.
I mean, that was such actionable work. Those three you know,

(46:58):
young men would have will be behind bars.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
Actually might be desecuted by now.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
He was probably set for.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Execution, would be gone by now if not for the
true doc the true crime documentary that he did, and
that was sort of you know where you kind of well.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
Joe Berlinger's A Paradise Loss is one of the greatest
documentaries of true crime. And it's a it's a veritae show,
and it's so impactful and so meaningful. It had a
great effect on the case, which which is unusual, but
it does happen.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And it's important when it does that it's handled with
grace and with care and with precision, not just for
you know, salacious numbers, but really because there's care.

Speaker 8 (47:43):
Well, right, because you're not just dealing with a show,
You're dealing with real people. Who have gone through this,
but also some of the families may think that the
police got the right person.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Right, right, we see that all that's a documentary that
got me into true crime. I was on one of
the the app you know, right after the first one
came out. I joined the list serve for the West
Memphis three organ you know dot org, and was in
the mailing list. This is old tiny computer stuff, you know.
For all you youngins out there, that's how you would
communicate is through like an email server signing up.

Speaker 6 (48:18):
To the motem.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Yeah yeah, and uh yeah, that's how that So this
is how I got involved in true crime. And so
if it wasn't for that documentary, there wouldn't have been mine,
and there wouldn't have been this, and there wouldn't have
been that, you know, right. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (48:34):
Well, Joe Burlinger was a great is a great mentor
to me and I and and one of the things
that he he always said as well, was one of
the reasons we do true crime is to give the
victims and their families and friends a voice. Yeah, so important,
and that is that is that is why we do

(48:56):
this genre. Is so so that because oftentimes the family
doesn't have a voice, and sometimes participating in this type
of show can be very healing, and it can also
really give them a way to pay tribute and honor

(49:19):
to their loved ones, to let people know that these
were people who were loved and are very missed.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
And aren't just a footnote or a headline. Right.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Oftentimes, the crime way overshadows the victims. They just become
like their names are just in print and we don't
even talk about them because we're so focused on the
actual crime and the criminal themselves.

Speaker 8 (49:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
So that's why.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
When Courtney and I first met you, it was a
no brainer because a the care, but also knowing that
you're going to be in people's homes that have been
through unimaginable loss that they're not just being you know,
pussied around or you know, pushed around.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Or do this do that, Like that's not how it goes.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
You know, if someone sh their story and they have
the courage and the ability to do that, it's meaningful.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
And I think others heal through hearing other stories. God knows.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
I feel like I have learned so much just by
interviewing other people who have been through things that you're like, huh,
if you have pushed on the rest of us can too.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
You know, it's very inspiring in many ways.

Speaker 8 (50:21):
Yeah, it is, and I think that it's very important
when you're doing these shows to start to build a
relationship with the family.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Definitely, no, I definitely will said.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
And you know when I did mine on the one
of the things that I insisted on was that Luca
wouldn't be in it and that Junlin's family, the victim
or friends would be in it. And Mark Lewis, who
is my director, was like done to done, deal, no problem.
So that's why. Anyway, you got to have a good director.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Catherine's been very busy and hard at work. She's been
directing the documentary The Idaho Student Murders that'll be coming
out before the trial on Peacock. So please tune in
back to Idaho, Boddy, Why don't you give us a
little update on these big new developments today. You know, thankfully,
it looks like the judge has ruled they will not
be delaying.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
He made a couple of rulings today and to no
surprise to many, on June twenty sixth, Hippler did not
today denied the defense's motion to postpone the Brian Coberger trial.
He stated that the team failed to show good cause
for prejudice if the current schedule remained. In fact, he

(51:32):
kind of repeated what we said that it would only
make it worse, right if it gets delayed. That you know,
there's this intense gag order on everyone, and if it
gets delayed, you know, people are hungry for information, right,
They're starving for information. So you know, these leaks are
just going to get worse. The publicity's just going to
get worse. So let's stop delaying things. And what he

(51:53):
said was it is not sufficient for the defendant to
merely offer up unsub Actually I'm on the wrong thing.
Let me digress. He also said, I'm getting ahead of myself.
He also said that they he denied the alternative suspects,
so they wanted to introduce alternative suspects and you know,
produce evidence to the jury to say no, it wasn't

(52:14):
Brian Koberger, it was these people. And they named four people.
Well we don't know who they named. It's all been redacted,
but they named four people. And the judge was like, uhh, no,
they've been cleared. Those people that you've named have been cleared.
And this is just going to confuse the jury. Right,
the evidence is not there, it's all hearsay. And he
said it is not sufficient for the defendant to merely

(52:36):
offer up unsupported speculation that another person may have committed
the crime, which is all the defendant has done here. Basically,
he's just saying, it's just speculation what you're offering. This
isn't like hard concrete evidence that you know somebody else
has been involved and.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
Their lives would be ruined if you was thrown in
this high profile and Brian Koberger he is led she's
the PhD student of criminology who is alleged to have
murdered the four students at the University of Idaho.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Yeah, there's a twenty page ruling. The judge said the
defense had already has had two years to prepare for
this trial because you know they're asking for more time.
They need to do you know, background investigation into who
Brian Coberger is and like all his history. They just
don't have another And the judge is like, listen, you've

(53:28):
already had two years enough. We're gonna be able to
get a fine jury, no problem. Voardwa exists. You're good
to go.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
I'm so relieved for that, mostly for the families. They
know Catherine, it's so difficult if a trial gets pushed
too far for them to adjust.

Speaker 8 (53:47):
It's one of the worst things that can happen to
a family.

Speaker 4 (53:50):
Well, and Catherine right to you know, to your point,
like this family does not live in the area, so
they have to travel right now, it's important to know.
There was an amended scheduling order also released today. The
trial has been pushedback one week. So the trial was
it was scheduled to begin August eleventh, it's now scheduled

(54:12):
to begin estimated to begin. I emphasize the word estimated
to begin August eighteenth, because it could change again. I
remember on the eve of Delphi it changed and it
was like, oh my gosh, so please don't be shocked
if it changes again, because it could.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
I hope it doesn't.

Speaker 8 (54:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think so many more leaks could
come out, more shows, more, oh, you know, all all
will just make things worse.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
We'll just make things worse.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
And especially if those you know, particular projects have a
real POV right, if there have a point of view
that could potentially lead or you know, sort of taint
a jury pool. I guess that's always the defenses kind
of they raise their hand and say, oh, there's a
book coming out and this could you know, sway a jury.
So therefore a delay sometimes happened. We've seen this happen

(55:04):
many times in the Idaho case. It seems like this
summer is when it's going to happen. And I find
it pretty reassuring from the judge that it's only moved
a week.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Chances are that might be the end of it, let's hope.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
So I mean, I don't think it'll be moved again.
I just I think people should be prepared just in case, you.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Know, you know, to to end. We were talking about
this last night after the show. You know, we're going
to put up on the website some gofundmes because the
four victims, their families, like you mentioned, want to travel
to the trial, and it's not an easy place to
get to.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
To get to this particular location.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Catherine, who lived it, you know, it's it's kind of
complicated and expensive and it takes time.

Speaker 8 (55:43):
Well, Moscow is about five and a half hours away
from Boising, so it is a big you know, if
you're going there, you know, you obviously have to stay
in hotels. You have to You can't go back and
forth each day.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
You had to take time off of work. So the
Gonzalvez family, the Shapin family, the Mogan family, and obviously
their Kernodle family that they're all having individual gofundmeans just
to raise some money because they're going to be losing work.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
They have to go and stay and.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
They want to support their you know, children's memory and
make sure that they don't get lost in the sauce
during this very high profile trial. And you know, some
of them have been able to raise a little bit
of money, but surely not enough. So if anybody out
there wants to participate, we don't have any We don't
deal with it at all, but you know we would
encourage you to do so if you want to.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
Absolutely so, Catherine, what first with is Brian Goldberger case?
What first either stood out to you or attracted you?

Speaker 6 (56:42):
What were your first thoughts?

Speaker 8 (56:45):
Well, when we read about the case, you know, as
the director and showrunner, the first one of the first
things I have to do is to write a treatment
and also to create a style guide for how the
look of the show is going to be so uh
In doing that, I always think about the story and

(57:09):
what what hit me so hard in this In this
case was the victims more so than I think any
other show I've done, in that they were young, young people.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
I mean kids really literally like kids.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
You know.

Speaker 8 (57:28):
So and they were, but they were just about to
start their lives. And there's something so horrifying about a
you know, a boogeyman in the middle of the night
coming when you have you know, six people in the house, right,
you got you know, your you're the whole king road

(57:48):
is surrounded by tons of other houses. Kids are up,
It's Saturday night. They're all over the place.

Speaker 7 (57:55):
Sure.

Speaker 5 (57:55):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (57:56):
And and the idea that something so evil is lurking
outside of your off campus housing is unimaginable exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
And also the fact that there didn't seem to be
a really big connection between the alleged perpetrator and these
four victims, that alone is just so scary and a
little unusual.

Speaker 8 (58:20):
It's very unusual and that kind of you know. And
we'll find out in the trial, right, we'll find out
what if any connection there was, because the motive in this.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Case is so elusive.

Speaker 8 (58:33):
Yeah, And that's a huge mystery here that you know.
I don't know if we'll we'll ever know, but we
certainly have theories.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
We certainly have theories.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
And if in fact the accused is in fact found guilty,
you know, I wonder if we would hear from Brian
Coberger himself. His family has been pretty quiet. They've been,
you know, understandably pretty silent, and we can only imagine
how harrowing that must be because they, by all accounts
seemed to love and loved him very much. So this
is very shocking, I would imagine.

Speaker 8 (59:04):
I mean, can you imagine being in there.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Show I can't, And it takes the courage to go
to the trial. They have said that they will be
sitting behind him in support, and again that's tough, man.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Can you imagine.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I cannot is up for something so massively hideous, and
you have to also sit with other parents who've lost
their heids.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
All of it's just, you know, and his life is
on the line, and his life is on the line.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
And by the way, if he is found guilty and
is in fact sentenced to death.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
He might be killed by a firing squad. Right March
of this year, Idaho enacted a bill. They approved a
bill that made firing squad the primary method of execution
and it goes into effect July of twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
And I'm not sure if that's something the jury is
going to consider when they're, you know, in the penalty
phase of this trial, this court hearing, if he's found guilty.
I'm not sure if that's something that they consider the
method execution. I'm not sure.

Speaker 5 (01:00:01):
Well, but not for nothing, don't I don't know. In
Idaho do you get to choose should you be in
that unenviable position.

Speaker 6 (01:00:09):
No body is shaking her head. You do not get
to choose the metal.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
So, as of July twenty twenty six, the primary method
of execution is a firing squad, and it's going to
be like mechanical, like I don't know if it's a
roll kind of situation. Good grief. By the way, here's
what they do. They put you in a chair.

Speaker 6 (01:00:29):
Do it?

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Oh my goodness, they put you in a chair. Do
you want to tell you this? Yeah, And they put
a target over your heart and they line up this mechanism.
It's it's apparently not going to be people like a
mass guard or and they remotely control the gun or guns,
many guns, I'm not sure, and they shoot your heart.
You lose consciousness immediately and you bleed out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Holy smokes, because before that, when it was not mechanical,
it was actually multiple it was and they had the blaters.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
Yeah, this was as they had only one gun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
And the reason for that is that whoever actually did
the shooting successfully you wouldn't know because there were blanks
and the person who had the real ammunition was unaware.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
I mean, is that so scary to me?

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
Well, I wouldn't want to be a correctional officer and
then also have to kill people. I'm how terrible that
is that job?

Speaker 8 (01:01:20):
What if that happen in South Carolina just this year?

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
It did?

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
It did such a good point, Catherine, that's such a
good point right now.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
The firing squad is the way they do it as
a backup, like if they run out of the medication
for lethal injection, which happened during COVID. That's why all
this came up. It was the backup. Now it's the primary,
but it is supposed to be more mean, So, I
don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
It's a wild world we are living in, but listen,
we are so glad that you joined us, Catherine Park.

Speaker 6 (01:01:48):
We appreciate you.

Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
Please check out the Idaho student murders on Peacock.

Speaker 8 (01:01:53):
Thanks.

Speaker 6 (01:01:53):
And it's Pride.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
Month on True Crime, and we have stories that you
should hear about. Don't forget to call us eighty eight
three one Crime, keep it here, True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
So what a night kind of getting this deep dive
from Catherine Park on documentaries and sort of the behind
the scenes. I always find it so compelling, so great
and wonderful.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
Yeah, no idea, how hard it is to make a documentary, right,
It is a lot of work. It's a lot. Yeah,
I mean it goes into a person in it. I
had to do a lot of work. I can imagine
being a director, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
And it's so sensitive and I think, you know, even
to participate to your point, it's such a sensitive thing.
And you know, you can imagine it as a family member.
You're sharing such you know, hard details that it really
does need a very classic, classy, smart, caring person to
be doing those interviews.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
Well, I think I think of the director as like
the voice exactly, like they set the tone. Let's say
that right, right, And She's just a really good example
of good tone for its exact glenary right, so very
victim focused.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Very much so, and a real class act. So thank
you again Catherine Park for joining us here in the studio.
And you know, listen, important topics continue because Pride Month,
you know, we've had we've had a different story each night,
and this is something we're going to continue outside of
this month too. It doesn't require just a month to
be able to highlight some of these underreported cases.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
So this will continue.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
But in honor of Pride Month, we have yet another
one that we want to share as well. So you know, body,
where should we begin? So I want to begin with
Caddie Grass. She's somebody that I came to know about
about a month ago because I read her story in
like a news article somewhere and I posted it, I think,

(01:03:54):
to my Facebook and YouTube because I was like enraged
about it. So she is in May, actually maybe it
was more than yeah, about a month ago on May
thirteenth of this year. She's nineteen years old, and she
went to a she lives in Wisconsin, and she went
to a choir concert for her little thirteen year old niece.
And she's nineteen year old. And she's nineteen years old,

(01:04:16):
and she took her thirteen year old to McDonald's after
this choir concert. They order their food, she goes to
the bathroom and she comes out and she's basically assaulted.
And it's important to know that Katie, she's assists female.
She's born female, she you know, identifies as female. And

(01:04:37):
she's got short hair and dresses like a boy.

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
So she's like what many would consider like a masculine
presenting female or in old in times people well maybe
not so much old, but or butch let's say, like
you know, if you're picturing somebody. And she was approached
by two young men, you know, and they were calling
her the F word. I don't want to say it,
but you can guess when I'm you know what they

(01:05:01):
called her and questioning on whether why she was using
the women's restroom, and she's like, I'm a girl, you know,
I'm a girl. And they beat her up and she
had to go to the hospital. She had she posted
a picture from the hospital and her face was just
black and blue. And she's nineteen. She's a kid, nineteen
years old. Well, the assault, the people that did this

(01:05:25):
are John Camrad he's nineteen years old, and another juvenile
who we don't know their name because they're a juvenile.
But at the time, the reason I was so enraged.
Obviously I was upset that this poor girl got beat up,
you know, of course, but hate crime charges were not
being these kids were not being charged with hate crime.
And Katie was like, what is going on? Like I

(01:05:48):
was assaulted because I'm gay, right right, Like they were
using the F word. They beat her up senselessly. She
had to go to the hospital. Well, by May twenty eighth,
which was about fifteen days later or so, the prosecutors
added hate crime charges against them, and so this is
a victory according to Caddy Grass. She described it as

(01:06:09):
a much needed sense of relief. You know, I mean,
how scary, Like I don't know, it's just something that
I worry about. Not for me, but you know, for
people I.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Care about, I understand.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
So imagine just going to the bathroom and just you know,
just an ordinary day and you just you know, take
it to the face that way.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
That's really horrifying.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Yeah, it's not okay, not okay, not okay.

Speaker 5 (01:06:32):
Just to live every day with that level of impending
threat a very very close friend of mine who Stephanie
actually knows trans man, and he was going across country
alone and on the ride what we would talk about
and he would say, I, in certain locations, I don't

(01:06:57):
even know what to do. I am completely I feel
completely unsafe, and I do not feel able to use
the restroom, which is one of what like three biological
imperatives to keep us alive, right, and that's you're being
faced with violence for existing, you know, to do that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:16):
It's it's really too hard to.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Wrap your mind around, but very important to talk about.
So body, did you have another story to share?

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
I do, actually, and unfortunately, yes I do. I do
want to finish Caddy up real quick, because even though
she's so young, she's only nineteen years old. You guys
like she has a lot of maturity that I wish
I had even at my age. You know, she has
spoken openly about the trauma she endured since that time,
and she's expressed her determination to use her experience to

(01:07:47):
inspire others. And I think that's such an important piece
of the story because she's using her experience to educate people, right,
And I just think that's really important. My person, I
know when I'm with her, I won't let her go
to the bathroom alone, you know, like you know, I
just won't. And she's perfectly good, listen, She's perfectly capable

(01:08:09):
of handling herself one hundred percent. But it's just something
like I just won't just because of stories like this,
because people are ignorant.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
It's crazy, no matter how I hope that's so for
granted too, just say I do too.

Speaker 4 (01:08:21):
I mean, I'm very feminine, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Yeah, granted right, So I just hats off to Caddie.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
You're you know, I'm definitely paying attention to your story,
and you're definitely an inspiration for others, and you know,
I hope you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Have a great life me too, I say.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
The next story I have is just as equally depressing,
even more so. This is a newlywed lesbian couple. They
were camping in Utah near Moab, famously from you know,
Gabby Patito's case, right where they got pulled over. I
can't help but think about that. They were violently murdered
by one of their coworkers in August of twenty twenty one.
The alleged perpetrator later committed suicide, so he was never

(01:08:59):
officially con although law enforcement does consider there to be
enough evidence to rule the case as closed. Thankfully, the
killer himself was allegedly in the relationship with another man,
although he seems to have had like extreme beliefs. The
victims in this case are Kylin Schultz, she was twenty four,

(01:09:19):
and Crystal Turner, who was twenty eight. They were recently married.
They were newlyweds. Wow, I mean, it's so sad. They
were camping in Utah and they were lasting alive. On
August thirteenth, they told friends about like a creepy dude
that was like following them around near their campsite who
was just making them look super uncomfortable. But they weren't

(01:09:40):
concerned enough to move their campsite.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Right because you don't want to be rude, you don't
want to be overrealzing. So we just kind of, you know,
sometimes you just brush it off. Nobody feel So.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
The couple was reported missing on the eighteenth, which was
like five days after they had last been seen. So
they went missing for about five days and their fans,
you know, the friend's family, are like, what's going on.
They were reported missing after not showing up for work
or responding to any messages, and a friend went searching
and discovered their bodies. A friend like, how scary, Like,

(01:10:11):
I don't know, it's just very scary. And both women
were discovered undressed from the waist down in a crete
close to the campsite, with multiple gunshot wounds to their
their backs and sides in chest area. There was no
robbery or any sexual assault, they were just stripped. Police
have stated that they had enough evidence to close the case.

(01:10:32):
They connected Adam I cannot pronounce his last name, pink
wet Skicks. Listen, I'm just gonna say Adam p okay
okay to the murder to close the place, including they
matched the ammunition because it was like super unique and
ammunition had like these red tipped hollow point bullets that
are like super rare, so they matched that. So there

(01:10:53):
was surveillance video of his car near the crime scene,
so he was very likely the creepy guy that was
like following them around. And there were digital records like
texts and purchases and cell tower pings placing him in
moeb at the time of the murders. And and this
is the crazy part. He allegedly confessed to his significant

(01:11:13):
other who remains anonymous. This guy remains anonymous, and he
described details of the case that were not made public,
So he knew like inside information that the police had
not reported on. Right, And that's another that's like a
real talent. That's a real tell.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
That's yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
And that's why a lot of the times, people you
know are not people. But the cops don't tell you
everything about a case, right, That's why they don't communicate
everything to a case because of this kind of situation.
This guy had inside information that was not released to
the news about the crime scene and the murders, and
he was able to relay that to the cops and

(01:11:50):
they were like, okay, he must know. This guy really
did confess, So that's pretty interesting. And you know, apparently
this guy worked with them at McDonald They worked at McDonald's,
and he said that they were really bossy and this
is why he did this.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
This is why he killed them, right what, Yeah, for
being bossy?

Speaker 4 (01:12:12):
Mm hmm yeh. He had and he had notes on
his phone and this is what it said. Well, they
don't give us the exact details, but there were like
really violent fantasies, including thoughts of raping and killing people,
like in his notes on his phone and his like
iPhone geo, he had like super super racist views, paranoia

(01:12:33):
and like massive anger issues. And there's no documented homophobia
because I mean, he himself was in a relationship with
a man, although co workers said that he had very
very rude remarks about the girls, like it's very interesting. Wow,
the internalized homophobia, right, it exists, it happens, it does.

(01:12:54):
I mean, it's just crazy and and Okay, So then
he wrote a suicide note and he blamed the he
got fired, and he blamed his firing on lefty liberal
bosses and complained about being let go for not working
fast enough. He just was like a really angry person.
I don't know, it's just very sad.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
So anyway he's gone and the cases closed and so
the good thing is is that they're not going to
get justice, but you know, he offted himself.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
So Cyanara, you want to leave a talk back for
any of the topics that we've covered tonight, please do
just download the iHeart app and leave us a message
just by pressing the top right hand corner.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
There's a little button, and we would love to hear
from you.

Speaker 5 (01:13:36):
Absolutely do you know, one of my before we started
this is true, before we started doing this show together,
one of my favorite things I would watch and particularly
to relax and have a good time was news bloopers.
And since we have started this, my husband recently tried
to show me. I'm like, I don't think that's funny anymore,
and I.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Don't sometimes we bloop What can I say? Those are
pretty funny? Those are pretty good?

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Yeah, sure, and you're perfect, Courtney Armstrong, don't you forget it?

Speaker 6 (01:14:09):
But forensics coming up with Joseph.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Huh yeah, it's going to be a big unpack, so
make sure we're also, you know, favor. There's nobody better
on a Sunday than to listen to Joseph Scott Morgan
talking through some of the scary forensics about the things
that we talk about all week. So he'll be covering
the biggest trials.

Speaker 4 (01:14:26):
And you say scary, but I say, like, when I
understand something, it makes me feel better about it, Exactly
when I understand like the science behind something, which is
rare because I'm an idiot. But when I understand the
science behind something, I suddenly feel like it's less scary
because that makes some more in control, of course, a
little more yeah, a little more knowledgeable. Like, I look, Courtney,

(01:14:50):
you're talking about mistakes. I thought the bleaching of the
bones was actual chemicals, but bleaching of the bones is
the sun. Like, so you're the only one. You're the
only one making meser.

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
I thought it was talk about bleaching our teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
That to the actual idiot of the group, so just FYI,
I was like, huh, what do we What did the
teeth say?

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
It has nothing to do with your teeth, Stephanie.

Speaker 4 (01:15:11):
I just love when jokes is here because I always
feel better about things when we're done.

Speaker 5 (01:15:14):
Yeah, it's and I think also, you know, with Jared
earlier and with Catherine more recently, but earlier, just yeah,
breaking things down and kind of understanding what goes on,
whether it is behind the law or behind a documentary,
it does.

Speaker 6 (01:15:30):
It just helps put things in their place.

Speaker 4 (01:15:33):
Many everything has a compartment, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
And I think we like to organize things.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
I like to ze scary thoughts, yeah, and take sort
of the power out of it.

Speaker 4 (01:15:43):
And I think that's why a lot of women are
into true crime. Yes, because we can we can menialize
those thoughts, those really scary thoughts because we're the ones
at risk.

Speaker 5 (01:15:52):
And Steph and I have talked with many psychologists and
social scientists about.

Speaker 6 (01:15:59):
That very fast. So it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Way of keeping us a little bit safe. I hate
to say it, but that we are going to have
to talk about ditty on Sunday because the closing arguments
for the defense will be tomorrow, and you know, we
won't be here tomorrow. It's Friday's our day off, so
we're not here Friday, Saturday back on Sunday, so we
will have a full update on that as well.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Rest assured, ladies, what a wonderful night.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
As always, make sure you tune in Sundays, we're here
live and again if you miss the broadcast, catch the
podcast right after. This is true Crime tonight. We're talking
true crime all the time. Have a great night, everybody,
Stay safe.

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