Rob and Michele Reiner Murder Charges, New JonBenét Ramsey Developments, and a Disturbing Discovery in the D4vd Case

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Tuesday, December sixteenth, and mann
do we have a stacked night of headlines. Murder charges
have been filed and shocking, absolutely shocking new developments in
the Rob and Michelle Reiner death and the now murder

(00:39):
investigation is underway. Also some new movement in the decades
old homicide of six year old Jean Benet Ramsey. Stunning
new information there, so I cannot wait to unpack that
with you guys. And also some really unsettling new discoveries
in the LA home of pop star David Will. There

(00:59):
actually be an arrest, and I feel like this information
is going to leave you all dumbfounded. I'm Stephanie Lai
Decker and I head of Katie Studios, where we make
true crime podcasts and documentaries. Haven't said that for a while,
and I get to be here every single night with
Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In and of course we

(01:19):
have Taha, Sam and Adam in the control room and
we want to hear from you. So if you want
to jump in and join the combo, please do eight
eight eight three one crime or you could always leave
us a talkback, or of course you could always dm us. Oh,
Courtney Armstrong, let's start with you. Where should we begin?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I think we should talk about what's going on in
Los Angeles with beloved director Rob Reiner and his wife,
producer Michelle Singer Reiner, who have been found dead in
their home.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
That happened on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
So the update is prosecutors have announced that their son,
Nick Reiner, will will face two counts a first degree
murder for murdering his parents. Furthermore, Nick Reiner was unable
to appear in court today due to medical reasons, but
he has retained a high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who

(02:13):
you may remember from Karen Reid among many others.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
He was like her main lawyer, right.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
That's right, Robs is the lawyer that he is a
are Let's be honest. That was one of the best
held court rooms. You know. Alan Jackson's the real deal.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, and he I didn't realize this. He also has
deep roots in Los Angeles. But we'll get to him
in a second. I wanted to give a couple of
details about what's going on because some of them are interesting. Okay,
for the charges for Nick Reiner, so the prosecutors revealed
that this case qualifies for special circumstance first degree murder

(02:52):
due to the fact that two people, both Rob and
Michelle Reiner, were murdered. Okay, I've heard of special circumstances before.
From our now, Nick Reiner also faces a special allegation
for personally using a dangerous and deadly weapon, specifically a knight.
So I was not familiar with that, and I don't
know had you heard body, Stephanie.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
No, it actually was puzzling. I assumed that the special
specifications were simply because there were more than one victims.
I have never heard that before. As you know, with
a knife, maybe it's a certain kind of a knife
that's unusual.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Well what it appeared to be so far. No, and
it's two things, because you're totally correct. The special circumstance
for first degree murder is for the murder of two people.
But this is a special allegation that's on top of it,
and it's something I think we dig into tomorrow with
our prosecutor, Jarrett Farantino. But basically, it's to apply extra charges.

(03:52):
The person must have committed a felony, they must have
personally used the weapon and it is a deadly or
dangerous weapon that is not already part of the crime. Honestly,
even reading those specifications, I still need clarity personally, So
we'll leave that to our legal expert. Now, the DA's
office will consider the family's thoughts and desires and deciding

(04:15):
whether to seek the death penalty, which is.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yeah, it's pretty I'm sorry. Yeah, I did some research
on the death penalty. You know, it's kind of one
of my special interests. And you know, California hasn't executed
somebody on death row since two thousand and six. And
Gavin Newsom, you know, he has a moratorium that he
placed in twenty nineteen on the death penalty. So even

(04:40):
though somebody gets the death penalty, doesn't mean they're going
to be executed in California.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
And I still at the law point.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
The law is still in the books, but in effect,
it's really not.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Some of the players that are shaping up in this
are pretty interesting. So yes, we have Alan Jackson, who
is now a very very very well respected defense attorney,
a very expensive defense attorney. There hasn't been any actual
salary posted, but you know, you're talking at least one
thousand to two thousand dollars per hour. I'm really curious

(05:11):
who's paying that bill. Is that coming out of the
family estate. Does Nick the son have access to certain
funds and he's paying as a third party himself, or
has a family member stepped in? Remember the family has
been so deeply affected. There's an older brother named Jake,
who's Nick's older brother. And then, of course we talked

(05:31):
about her last night. There's a daughter, younger sister, Romi,
who you know, had the terrible, terrible disaster to actually
find her deceased mother and father. And we've heard a
lot of accounts even just throughout this day, and some
misreporting as well that I think is worth mentioning. There
has been some reports earlier in the day. Even my mom,

(05:53):
who's in the studio with us tonight and just came
for a visite. Yes, yes, yes, another blonde in the mix.
You know, she was making mention of the fact that
Romy allegedly entered the home somewhere around three thirty pm,
and that Mom was still alive and that Mom had
said Nick did it. This was being reported very widely,

(06:14):
and that has since been disproven. They were deceased. When
she arrived. They were in their bed, which is a
very interesting detail because I guess it kind of the
assertion would be that they there wasn't some sort of
big explosive fight, you know, in the living room that escalated.
Does that imply Yeah, we don't really know the answer

(06:36):
to this, So this is just a theory that you know,
perhaps mom and dad were sleeping. They went to that
weird party at Conan and Brian's house. Not that the
party was weird, but the interaction between mom, dad, and
son was weird. We spoke about this last night. Apparently,
you know, according to reports, Nick, the son was very odd.

(06:56):
He seemed off. In fact, mom and dad actually to
bring him along last minute because they felt like something
was off with him and they didn't want to leave
him alone in the house. He was also living with
mom and dad, So he comes to the party, was
acting very blank. People have you know, made the expression
like a very blank expression, and like we talked about

(07:17):
last night, he was going up to people and asking
are you famous? Are you famous? Are you famous? Some
sort of escalation between father and son occurs. Then mom
and dad go home, they go to bed, and then
at some point, allegedly their son enters the house and
takes their lives and leaves them for dead and a

(07:40):
pretty major overkill. Sus came to the house at about
two pm, didn't answer, then notified to the daughter who
lives across the street and basically said, we can't get
in touch with your parents, and that's why she enters
the scene at that point, and you can imagine it's
unimaginable what she walked into.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Absolutely, this is true crime tonight. If you're just joining us,
we're talking about the fact that Nick Reiner is going
to face two counts of first degree murder for his parents,
beloved director Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner Boddy, you
were about to jump in that.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
Party at Conan O'Brien's house on Saturday night. I guess
Bill Hayter was there, And if you guys don't know
who he is, he used to be on Saturday Night.
I really funny guy, so funny, and apparently he was
having a conversation with somebody and Nick the son the
accused in this case, kept interrupting him, and Bill Hayter
I basically had to kind of get blunt with him

(08:37):
and be like, this is a private conversation, and that's
kind of what sets this blank stare scenario off. He
kind of didn't like that.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
He didn't like that, and you have to assume he
was on heavy amounts of drugs. We've kind of gone
down in the rabbit hole a bit, at least I
have in terms of I watched the movie that is
based on his life that you did, dad and son
made together. Yeah, I watched it, you know, at work
in the background and was sort of looking for there

(09:08):
being some kind of a smoking gun in the childhood
or something to point to. And you know, again, this
is a story that was also co written by Nick
the accused, Dad directed it. And you know, there wasn't
something super deep other than the stories that we've heard before,
which is, you know, drugs get in the mix. There
was a lot of meth meth apparently being used, lots

(09:30):
of on again, off again rehabs. You know, we talked
about this last night. Seventeen different rehabilitation centers, remember seventeen
is pretty astounding. It's like twenty five thousand dollars to
walk in the door at a rehabilitation center and imagine
now the rent for thirty days. It's pretty intense. So
this is somebody who's been in and out of these

(09:51):
scenarios for a really long time. Somehow wound up back
at home and had been living at home, and apparently
there's been some Esque related incidents prior to this, but
nothing that would assume murder. I mean, it's really like
next level at this point. And obviously today he was
supposed to be in the courtroom today at meek thirty

(10:13):
this morning. That didn't happen. According to Nathan Hockman, I
watched the press conference that the new district attorney has
also given today, basically saying he didn't get cleared for
medical which I guess is a very standard thing that
if you're checked into the police facility or into the jail,
you have to go through some medical assessments. We have

(10:35):
to assume maybe there was some drugs that he was
coming off of. This is just an assertion, not a
fact or that. We also have heard reports that he's
on suicide watch. You could imagine if you've committed a
crime drug fueled. Now it's wearing off those drugs and
the reality setting in. I can only imagine. But you
do have to actually find a lawyer, and that doesn't

(10:57):
happen very quickly. You have to call a lawyer, You
have to call several lawyer. You have to retain a lawyer.
Sometimes a retaining a lawyer at that level is up
to a half a million dollars of a retainer to
even have them look at your case. So allegedly he
may be in court tomorrow. We don't totally know unless
that changes, or if there's been any new development since
we've gone on air. We'll keep you posted. But it

(11:20):
seems like there's a big bill being paid. And yeah,
I'm curious who is standing up for him right now.
I can't imagine his siblings are I was just going
to capable of doing that. It must be so hard
for them, I can't imagine. But they still loved their brother.
I'm sure I.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
Was the older brother could be the one, because I
would imagine that the sister who walked in on this
would probably not.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
But I think somebody really powerful would have to make
that phone call to get Alan Jackson's attention.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Exactly exactly, and here he was. He was there today,
he was in the courthouse today, inside the courthouse. He's
in Los Angeles, right, David, exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
And it is complicated, as you said, body between. You know,
Nick Reiner is still the brother of his siblings, and yes,
he's accused of murdering their parents.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
I mean even his siblings know that he's unwell, right, Like.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
Yes, they've seen it through, so there might.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Be some like level of compassion, you know, for his defense.

Speaker 6 (12:25):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
I don't, I please don't. I have no inside knowledge, obviously,
I don't know these people, but I'm just you know.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Wide Strokes officials even commented that cases involving family members
are just across the board, among the most challenging and
mostly difficult to prosecute because the crime themselves are often
really brutal and intimate. And then there's the layers of
you know, which side of the courtroom are the suspects

(12:55):
siblings sitting on?

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, and like again, what a sicko think about it?
I don't care what drugs are on you go into
a room, if in fact this is accurate, and mom
and Dad are sleeping in their bed. You know, you
go to bed, that is sacred space. You know, that's
where you finally can turn your brain off and really relax.
And thankfully they were together. But can you imagine the
horror waking up to the devastation that they must have

(13:20):
been experiencing, and to know that it's your son, the
person that you gave birth to. It's unbelievable, unbelievable. So
those reports, these are the information that is you know,
forever evolving. Will obviously be following it closely. But man,
you know, talk about you know, loving your loved ones
and holding your babies close, and you know, to all

(13:44):
of those struggling with addiction or know somebody you know
that is struggling with addiction, you know, it does take
a village and our hearts to go out.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yeah, it's not easy. It's not an easy journey, right,
like living with an addict and having to deal with
an addict, and then the addict themselves to add themselves.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
The shame that.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Troubles with it, right And you know, I don't know,
I just I feel it's a disease obviously, and you
know treatment is obviously the solution. I just don't know
that it always works like this guy went how many times?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
That's right?

Speaker 3 (14:15):
And also not a lot has been made at least
that I've looked at his mental health and how and
if that went in. But there's a lot still outstanding,
and including the fact that investigators are still awaiting the
coroner's analysis to determine whether the murders of Rob and
Michelle Reiner occurred Saturday night or early Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
So they don't know, No, they don't have a time
of death. Yet they don't have to assess that.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
Oh yeah, that's a good point. You think they'd have
cameras at.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
This what for whatever reason they didn't have it today.
I mean, that was asked by many, many journalists and
it's one of those questions and everybody just even asking
at the press conference, and just in terms of the players.
As a reminder, Nathan hawk Man, who is the current
district attorney, also did the Menendez brothers case and he's
the one that cambashed their plea remember their new trial.

(15:08):
He's the one that was like, no.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Dice, right, yeah, well listen, keep it here when we
come back. There is surprising new movement in the John
Benet Ramsey case nearly three decades later, and there is
a startling discovery about the David case. True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Body move in. So John Bennet Ramsey,
what a stunner. There seems to be some real new
movement here. And again this is a decade's old case.
We all have wanted answers for six year old Jeen's murder,

(16:02):
and so many people have been questioned and identified and
the finger was pointed at mom and Dad. Oof body
tell us everything.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
So I just want to for those listeners who maybe
aren't so familiar with like the true crime sphere, but
now you're into it, right. There's a couple cases that
live in like you know, the zeitgeast that you know
are always if there's an update, everyone's going to stop
what they're doing and discuss it. And if you had
to pick the top like say ten cases of all

(16:35):
time that are still open, I think I'm I'm confident
in saying Jean Benet would be number one.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
John, I think that's probably right. It lives so large
in everyone's mind. I mean when this happened, right all,
I'll say nineteen ninety six, and then she was the
cover of every tabloid, that beautiful little pageant girl.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
M hmm, exactly, and you know it's and she was
just this beautiful, you know, young little girl. She was
six years old, died, you know, murdered mysteriously in her home.
And you know, if so, if anything happens with Jean Bonnet,
people are gonna stop what they're doing. They're gonna want
to talk about it. Another one would be a Zodiac.
I think Zodiac is in there.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
The black Dahlia, black Dahlia. She was just talking about
that today.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
For Madeline McCann and Mara Murray, the two m and
then I call them the two emin Ms and West
Memphis three I think are the top five. So if
anything happens in those cases, we got to talk about it.
So here we are, we're going to talk about it.
Even any little shred of evidence that comes out, we're
going to stop and talk about it. And so the
Boulder Police released a statement confirming that they are actively

(17:46):
following leads and investigating Jean Bonnet. Ramsey's nineteen ninety six murder.
Jean Jean Ramsey, who is Jean Benet's father, has publicly
expressed optimism that the case mays to be solved. John
Benet was a six year old girl from Boulder, Colorado.
She was found dead in her family's basement on December

(18:07):
twenty fifth, Christmas Day, nineteen ninety six, with her desk
ruled homicide. Over the past thirty years, you guys, thirty years,
it's been two. There's two main theories, two branches that
this has developed into a family member theory involving a
possible accidental or deliberate act by a family member, or

(18:31):
an intruder theory. So there's theory A, in theory B yep,
and you can go down, you know, so far down
the rabbit hole on theory A, which is the family
did something, somebody in the family and you get to
the almost the end and you think you might have
and it just collapses in on itself. And the same
with the intruder theory. The more you dig, you're so close,

(18:53):
oh my god, it could be this, it could be this,
and it just collapses on itself. So there's in this.
It's been the problem with this case. So Boulder Police
Chief Stephen Redfern statements today or not today, but recently,
the case remains a top priority for our department. This
past year, detectives have conducted several new interviews as well

(19:17):
as reinterviewed individuals based on tips we've received. Officers have
collected new evidence and tested and retested other pieces of
evidence to generate new leads, utilizing advances and forensic science.
You know, we spoke with CC Moore and we speak
with a lot of really great experts in this field. Yes,

(19:37):
there's been a lot of great new DNA advancements that
have been made in forensic science. So police are looking
at all this evidence that have been collected in you know,
John Maine's murder, and they're retesting it using these more
advanced techniques.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
For those who aren't really like into the details of
the case, there there was like DNA found ine pants, okay,
and it was okay, this is going to do it,
this is going to do it.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well it didn't.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
It excluded everybody in the family, which is a blessing,
you know, but leaves everything open and I want to
say it, actually the DNA they think it belongs to
the factory worker who made the pants in China?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Is that where that landed? Because I remember, I know
it was tested and I forgot if that was. Listen,
this is like a thirty year old case. And there
are people who have made their entire career based on
investigating Jeanbanese case. Podcasters, TV personalities obviously investigators and whatnot.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
They would know. I mean, I have forgotten a lot
of what I you know what I mean, like because
it has been so long.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah, I mean Mark Furman. I don't know if you
guys remember him. He was the oh j O. J.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Simpson.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
I mean I think he wrote a book, if not,
was extensively dominic done like this guy.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, no, she has been written about.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
So the advancements in dnare are really promising. And John
or I'm sorry, I always say John Beney when I
say John Ramsey. John Ramsey is very optimistic and he
I met him at Crime Con when I met you guys,
actually yeah, and he he was kind of like begging
for the Boulder Police Department to reopen or retest the

(21:31):
DNA with AUTHOROM labs, and so he is saying the
key This is a quote the key, the key really
in progress has been the addition of new leadership. There
he's talking about the police department. I'm impressed with him.
I think he's sincere and honest. The problem with the
old leadership was the old guard, these people that were

(21:54):
in the police department and had never investigated a murder.
John Ramsey, the father of Jean Benet, is advocating for
the use of AUTHOROM labs for investigative genetic genealogy, saying
I think if they do, we've got a probably seventy
or eighty percent chance of getting an answer. It's kind
of the latest and greatest use of technology and DNA
des all crimes. AKA this is me now body Brian Coberger, Right, No,

(22:17):
I mean no question.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Author is a real deal. We're working on several cases
right now, equally of a long time, many decades old.
DNA and AUTHORAM somehow is really the golden steel right
now on how to bring that to light. And just
because a case is thirty years old, it doesn't mean
the DNA can't be really useful and maybe they can

(22:40):
finally get answers for you know, Jean Benet senior dad
in this case. You know, he's been fighting the fight
on every level for so long, even under the glare
of prosuspicion on his own, Like people really were suspicious
of him, of his son, of his wife. Yeah, he did.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
People forget this. The Ramses were indicted in nineteen ninety eight,
I believe, for the murder. But then when the indictment
came back, the dall it collapsed in on itself, just
like I've been kind of saying, like everything you go
in on it collapses on itself. And he didn't think
he had enough evidence to present it a trial and resented.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
The And I never thought mom and dad did it
or were involved, because typically typically one of them would
turn on the other. So if a husband and wife
commit a crime, say against a child, God forbid, hideous,
hideous thought, you know, at some point to save themselves,
typically one person will turn on the other. In fact,

(23:41):
sometimes investigators are banking on that right that maybe you
know you'll turn on your husband because you know you
want to save yourself. They never did. They were a
united done. They were very until Patsy's poor death. She
died of cancer. Probably do so much stress, so much loss,
so much anxiety.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, well, I mean let's let's face it, though, there
were a lot of reasons to be suspicious of them, right.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Number one was back in the day in nineteen ninety six.
You know, Jean Beney Ramsey, she was a little like
living doll, and she was in pageantry, which you know,
that's fine or whatever, but the hair and the makeup
and the eyelashes and the false teeth.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I mean, she's six years old.

Speaker 5 (24:24):
And she was people seeing that too, so that's yeah,
I had never seen.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
It was very startling at first.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
It was very startling. Yeah, and then you know there's
the note, the ransom note, and you know, it was
like this weird ransom note. The amount that they were
demanding was the same exact amount that John Ramsey had
been given in a bonus that year, which how would
they know that? The ransom people, right, how would they
know that? And then this pineapple like there was there

(24:51):
were a lot of reasons that one.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
What was the pineapple story?

Speaker 4 (24:53):
So the story is is that they went to a
Christmas party and they came home and went right to bed, okay,
and woke up and John Benet was missing right Well,
when that when they did the autopsy, Jean Benet had
undigested pineapple, which means that she had just eaten it
prior to her death, like right before her death. And

(25:17):
on the kitchen table was a bowl of pineapple with
a spoon and a glass of tea that had the
brother's fingerprints on it. So there's been never been really
a good explanation for the pineapple.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
There was a documentary back in the day, not the
most recent one that we saw on Netflix, which was excellent.
I think the company Campfire produced that and it was
really well done. There was other incarnations. I mean, I
feel like I've watched every possible thing on John Pinet
over the last couple of decades, but there was one

(25:52):
specifically that made the made the allegation that it was
the sun, and then you remember the Sun also on
Doctor Phil and that was her strange appearance. But again
that got discounted, and I thought in the most recent
documentary they did a really good job. And it also
points to the idea of tunnel vision, something that we
had to be mindful of in all of the cases

(26:13):
that we cover, you know, that is it possible that
the investigators had tunnel vision? They were, you know, very
confident that it was mom and dad at the helm
and didn't really want to listen to any other theories
at the time.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
And the crime scene was completely destroyed.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
That's what I was going to say.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
They you know, even if that was the tunnel vision
turned into the tunnel vision of the detectives, which surely
that does in retrospect, seemed to be what happened on
those first pivotal minutes and hours the the you know,
the officers again, they were not homicide detectives, and John

(26:53):
Ramsey was all over the place because the.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
First daughter getting murdered. Yeah, I mean, come on.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
And he found her. And if you see your child,
you're going to run to them and pick them up
and you know, check on them and scream and holler.
And that's what happened.

Speaker 5 (27:12):
And so for our listeners. So just to set the
stage of why that crime? So what what was the situation? Happened?

Speaker 4 (27:19):
The police they called the police because they found the
ransom note. They called the police. The police arrived and
instead of securing the Ramses and whatnot, they let them
search and John John Ramsey, the father, is the one
who found Joan Benet in the basement and he was
alone when he found her, and so he of course

(27:40):
ran to her and picked her up like any father would,
like any father would. Right. This is why people who
have missing children shouldn't go searching, you know. It's that's
why the one of the reasons the police tell you
let us handle it, you know, because your natural.

Speaker 5 (27:55):
Yeah, I think there was something suspicious, that something's going
the time where I think they the dad made a
beeline to the area where the body was. I think
they talked about that stuff of the document. You might
remember the.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
House was a little peculiar, had a lot of Yeah,
he went to an area sort of immediately that the
detectives had already you know, quote searched the basement obviously
not that thoroughly. And but also listen, if you have
a house with two kids, you're gonna know about every
weird space you have, right because you know, like raccoons,

(28:31):
kids like nooks and cranies like you know, they just so.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
And there was something different about the end the how
that how this you know, predator entered the house to
the downstairs.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Interesting there was a spider web that was like undisturbed,
that's right, And it was the only way that they
think the the intruder theory might have came into the
house was through this window in the basement and there
was like this suitcase there for them to like step on, right,
But there was this spider web that was unexplained and

(29:07):
there might be an explanation now, but at the time
it was unexplained because it was undisturbed, huh, meaning that
nobody really could have come through there. So, like I said,
you go down and then everything just collapses in on
itself every time.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Nothing right.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
So hopefully the Boulder Police Department will be able to
submit this DNA and do some IDG with authorm and
develop a family tree of the suspect.

Speaker 5 (29:31):
I feel like that documentary was pivotal to keeping this
on everyone's mind and talking about it. I was saying
to Stephanie earlier. I'm like, I feel like documentaries have
really reignited like certain cases that people kind of forget about.
But because of it, now, you know, the police feel
more pressure from everyone and people start to type blogs

(29:52):
and comments on it.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
So, by the way, you know, in law enforcement's defense,
by the way about it, you did such a good
job laying that out because it's such a complicated case.
It's a complicated is a complicated when you did a
great job. But think about it. For law enforcement, they
have troubles to be solving today real time, right, So
law enforcement has limited resources. There's only x amount of
officers or detectives, et cetera that are solving crimes of today.

(30:17):
So to go back in time thirty years with limited
resources and limited you know, ability to do that limited
manpower I should say nice, not their ability, but just
not having the manpower. So sometimes in really unique situations,
a production company or a studio steps in as a
documentarian or a documentary producer and they have a different

(30:38):
level of time, so they're able to kind of go
back and sift through every document. I mean, we've done
this to nauseum. Where you go back in time thirty
years you find that one weird box that has all
the info, and right, you kind of start from scratch.
You know, we might have months to do that, but
you know, law enforcement doesn't have that level of manpower

(30:58):
in most cases.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Ahead That's very true.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yeah, man, we have a lot of things to get
to you tonight. We're going to be talking about the
update in the Anna Kepner case, the eighteen year old
who lost her life while aboard a cruise ship, as
well as new developments in the pop star David case,
which we've all been asking for more info on. Turns
out we have some. But first let's go to talk about.

Speaker 6 (31:21):
I want to leave a talkback regarding the Brian Kohlberger
and the bananas. And you're saying that he was going
to receive counseling for his eating disorder. Yeah, they don't
give you counseling like that. And when you do get therapy,
if you get therapy, it's not what you get on
the out. So he has all these times been in
this belt and do nothing, So he's riding kites about everything.

(31:44):
Thanks guys, take care, Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
I had no idea that bananas were such a controversial
hurt and their placement in Brian Coberger's world that they
would be really have such a spotlight upon them, right.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
I mean, let me just say, any any counseling that
Brian Coberger is getting in prison is one hundred percent
more counseling that I am being offered here out.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
In the free world.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
Interesting. Yeah, good point.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that's a really fair point. And I mean, isn't
that crazy? Yeah, I mean we live in an upside
down world right now. Don't feel that way at times? Yeah, yeah,
I mean that makes a lot of sense. And man, yeah,
the bananas have gotten a lot of playing.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Yeah, And I think I I I And that's thank
you so much for the talkback, by the way, because
we were wondering if he was going to be getting counseling, Like,
I don't know that we were sure, right, Like, I
don't remember what I said. I blacked out.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
I think you mentioned that.

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Yeah, Like, I don't know. Maybe he'll get some counseling
for this while he's in you know, with people with
you know, disorders, do they get counseling in prison?

Speaker 2 (32:46):
I have no idea. Apparently not.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
And to explain the talk back, if this is out
of context and this much set must sound very very strange.
Brian Coburger has he is guilty of murder ring for
University of Idaho students. He is behind bars for the
rest of his life and then some. He has an
eating disorder called ARFID, which makes him very particular in

(33:12):
what he can or can't eat. It's a more it's
a mental condition. And he is complaining that the type
of bananas he is being served in his really strict
prison block are not up to par for the bananas
he enjoys. Interesting and that's controversy and that this arfid
just for people who aren't Like I didn't know what

(33:33):
it was either until I, you know, came across this
Brian Koberger thing.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
It's he's like he can experience fear of choking, like
and it's not just like oh I'm scared, it's like
debilitating fear literally of like choking or not being able
to eat it or swallow. And so he can only
have certain kinds of foods. And then when we got
the Idaho you know documents in the photo dump, so

(33:59):
we saw his free and pantry and refrigerator. He really
only eats a certain kind of food.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
I mean like it was the.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
Same pizzas, the same cheese, the same this everything was
the same kind of like so I was like, oh, okay, yeah,
I was.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Gonna say, not for nothing, I'm not just counting the
r fill. I also many people, and most college students,
I would say, have about five types of anything.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
That's a good point. That's a really good point.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
And like, wouldn't it be a beautiful world and this
would be one of the things I would wish for
in twenty twenty six, if we could offer healthcare to
people before the crime occurs. You know, you look at things,
you know, even some of the crimes that we're covering tonight.
You know, Nick, you know Rob Reiner's son. You know,
obviously he had a lot of access to rehabilitation. But

(34:50):
wouldn't it be great if like us, parents or young
kids can just have access to you know, psychological mental
health care early on, so some of these kinks get
worked out before they're needed behind bars.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
I think I think America needs more therapists. I think
that's one of the biggest issues is that you know,
there's just not enough for being a therapists to go around.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Or even if they are, oftentimes they charge out of network.
So if you have health insurance, which so many don't,
Not to be controversial, I know it's a hot topic
right now, but you know, it's so so expensive, and
then oftentimes it doesn't either a cover your mental health
care or your specific need in mental health isn't covered,

(35:37):
so you have to pay out a bucket and you
know who has all this extra cash to to, you know,
to say you can do that and then suddenly, now
we are behind bars after committing a vicious crime from
which you cannot come back for You're going to be
behind bars for the rest of your life. Is that
the time to really trigger it? I mean, yes is
the answer in a perfect world, But I don't know.

(35:59):
The pre care seems to be something that should be
more of a priority.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
And just to put out as a reminder, when Jessica
Kaplan was on, she's a therapist who has really talked
us through some really harrowing times and she had addressed
this issue. Stephanie and Body just spoke a lot about
finding specifically therapist, but Jessica had thrown out, you know,

(36:24):
if you have a place of worship in your neighborhood,
there's often really solid roads to counseling of different sorts,
and maybe just look community wise and sort of if
it's women's centers or the men's why and.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Just it's a different avenue and it I'm not suggesting answer,
by the way, sometimes you just need to share. I
think that's the biggest thing. And even the show I
think has done so much just for personally just by
hearing other people's stories or sharing our own, just by
saying something out loud and having someone receive it just

(37:02):
to hear it. It doesn't even have to be a therapist.
Sometimes it's just you know, looking it up so you
realize the piano that you're carrying on your back doesn't
need to be carried just by yourself. And so many
people have had likely similar experiences. God knows, I've lived
a million lives. Bring it on, You'll never shock me.

(37:23):
And sometimes just talking out.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Loud, yeah, I agree. Sometimes the three of you, like
when we're all together, I'm like, gosh, okay, I'm glad
to hear someone else feels the same way I do
about this particular horrible thing that whoever has said or done.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Like, I'm not crazy, I'm not losing my mind. Other
people feel the same way, Okay I feel.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Honestly, in life, I use that to help myself if
I'm having whatever the problem is, a problem with an
accounting issue or a plumbing issue and something I'm like
embarrassed about, I remind myself I'm not the only human
who has walked this planet who has had this problem,
no matter what it is, no matter what, And honestly,

(38:04):
it really helps me.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, because you know, people carry their secrets and it
seems so heavy and so scary, and then you know,
your body keeps to score. And by the way, just
because you feel a certain way about something doesn't make
it fact. That's also just the truth. How we feel
isn't always the truth, you know. And sometimes when you
have a girlfriend or you know, I have you guys

(38:27):
or our listeners who are so helpful, you know, it
just allows us to share different perspectives and like, you're
not alone. Nobody's alone, you know, nor should you feel alone?

Speaker 5 (38:37):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, this this Brian Colberger conversation
about the bananas, as Courtney said, that should surprise how
many people responded to it. We actually have another talk
back about my conversation.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
If you stop yourself, but let's hear the talk.

Speaker 5 (38:53):
Let's hear it though.

Speaker 7 (38:54):
Yes, hello crime family, excuse me on the answer from Atlanta,
and I just wanted to give a talk back about
the kay. I think he thought that he was famous
once he said he killed everybody, and I think he
thought they would be pounding at his door to interview him,

(39:17):
and he had no earthly idea what was coming. And
some of that I'm sure will happen eventually, but I
don't know what he expects.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Ridiculous.

Speaker 7 (39:27):
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
We love you, Nancy.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yeah, more often I like you.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, it's so true. But by the way, there's probably
a lot of truth to that. You know, this seems
to be someone who maybe has narcissistic tendencies, and the
assumption would be that, yeah, there was a lot of
attention on Brian Colberger, which again rips my heart out
for the victims' families and even for Brian's family. Frankly,
he was all eyes on Brian, and now that that's

(39:59):
you know, no longer the case, I would have to
assume people are throwing some real cash at him, Like
we at KT do not pay people for those contributions
just because it's gross, frankly, but I'm sure somebody is.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
Yeah, you know, I often think this is kind of
in the same vein of you know, Brian thought that
he would get all this attention and want to I
think he had narcissism, obviously, but I think that there
was some kind of power he had knowing that he
was the guy and everyone was looking for him those
six weeks, right, it was his little secret, and I

(40:39):
don't think he I don't think he wanted to give
that up. And once he gave that secret up, like yes,
he pled guilty, I think that's when his world started
to collapse in on itself, in and of itself, and
then of course he goes to prison and loses all
control and he's spiraling. I think, yeah, I think that
secret made him feel powerful, like everyone's looking for.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Me, and everybody was by the way everybody was. I
would have to imagine. And this is an experience I
will never have, and I've had most experiences, but good
and bad. The feeling when all the dust has settled
and you are alone in a cell to really think
about what you have done and nobody's asking you how

(41:21):
you are, nobody's checking in on you. You don't have access
to your telephone to be able to call mom and
dad or whomever to like talk you off a ledge.
Imagine all of that narcissism and all of that psychosis.
And maybe there's drugs involved whatever. I'm not saying that
there were drugs involved in Brian's case there it doesn't
appear that there were, but he was an addict previously

(41:44):
though true. Fair fair, fair, I don't believe that there
were drugs in his system. They have the time of
the murders. It wasn't like a frenzied drug fueled prime
that we know of. That we know of exactly, but again,
and the adrenaline is running through you and now it's
gone and you got to sit with yourself for eternity.

(42:09):
It is a place I do not envy.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
At all, Stephanie. I love that image of literally the
clink and the silence and just you know, act out
in haste and repent at your leisure.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Bka very well said, I think about that with Rob
Reiner and Michelle Reiner's son. You know, assuming that there
were drugs involved, those drugs start to wear off. That's
not fun, right, talk about it? Come down and it
starts hitting you what you've what you've actually flashbacks? What
does that mean? The first night of Ponka, you're at

(42:41):
the holidays, like I don't even know if they were
Jewish or not, but this is the kind of stuff
if you believe in heaven and hell, like this is
not a happy ending for your eternity. Nick Reiner allegedly,
can we did I see?

Speaker 4 (42:56):
Michelle Obama? Was it is it Stephen Corbey.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Which Jimmy Kimmel tonight, they were supposed to meet with
the Runners that night, Michelle Sunday. Sunday they were supposed.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
To go over to the house or something in that vein. Yes,
Michelle and Barack. Wow, yeah, no the Obama's I swear.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
They were supposed to see them the day that they died.

Speaker 5 (43:25):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (43:25):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Something you just said triggered me and I was like,
oh my god. I saw this snippet of her speaking
on this on this talk show.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Like talk about a sliding door. You know, again, this
is what I think about with Brian Comber. You're like,
what if he had just slept in that day? What
if he had, you know, he got a cold or
got strapped throat, Like, would this have just like run
its course or was it inevitable? Certainly those four specific
young adults, Ethan Maddie, you know, Hayley, it's like when

(43:56):
heart gets ripped out because the holidays for them and Xana.
You know, maybe it would have been different people, but
is it possible that maybe he would have cooled off
and the crime never would have happened. Same for Nick Reiner,
maybe if he had just you know, just had a
different day. Maybe it was raining that day and therefore

(44:16):
he stayed in bed longer, or maybe he skipped exactly,
came down with strep throat, and like just getting through
that one little stint of time would have been the
difference between life and death. You know.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
It isn't that like an effect, Like isn't there like a.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Sliding sliding door? I remember my father used to always
make notice of that that he was a big reader.
Every morning he would read all the papers and sometimes
there would be something very tragic that happened, and he
would always say, if they had just you know, gotten
in the car five minutes later, they had just you know,
if somebody had just called and they got I think.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
About that with the coburger and the door dash driver,
she could.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Have lost her life. It could have been just she
was minutes so or could.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
She have scared him all off?

Speaker 2 (45:05):
She scared either way.

Speaker 5 (45:06):
Yeah, butterfly effect, that's the butterfly effect.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
But is that the butterfly effect? I thought the butterfly
effect is like.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
A ripple.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
You do an action and then impact doors.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Maybe I don't know, let us know, give us a call.
Eight and eight thirty one Bread I think there's Yeah,
by the way, I want to know.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, I do too. I think a sliding door is
more that you can choose one adventure versus the other. Like, oh,
my goodness, had I not gotten on that train, I
never would have met my soon to be husbands. It
was just because I was mooning late that day, I
hopped on a different train than I normally would have,
and then I met the love of my life.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
And then a butterfly effect is a butterfly flaps its
wings and a reptile was born in.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Had I not broken down in tears at a tempt
job when I was twenty one years old and lost
the job that day getting another temp job, I wouldn't
have met my husband.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Oh many years later.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yeah really, yes, that absolutely yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Anyway, stick around.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Coming up at the top of the hour, investigators uncover
something unexpected at the property tied to Pop singer David.
There are new claims that cast a darker light on
the cruise ship death of eighteen year old Anna Kepner.
And we'd love to hear from you, so give us
a call eight at eight three to one Crime Keep
it here, True Crime Tonight We're talking true crime all

(46:35):
the time.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Body move in. Welcome to the second hour.
If you've missed any of the first hour these do
not fret, not even for a second. You could always
catch us right after as a podcast and as always
if you want to join the conversation live, Sam and

(47:10):
Adam are standing by eight eight eight three one Crime,
or you could always leave us a talkback. There's so
much to still unpack in the Anna Kepner case, the
eighteen year old who lost her life while a board
a cruise, and of course David the pop stars, So
we'll get to that after we hit a talkback.

Speaker 8 (47:28):
Hey, ladies, I was just wondering if you guys had
a David update thing.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Oh, as a matter of to you, it was great, okay,
point that's my kind of girl.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
I love it, so yes, we do. Actually, it just
so happens that Stephen Fisher, the private investciretor hired by
the landlord of the pop singer of the murder suspect David,
revealed that he discovered in Do you guys remember a
few months ago we were talking about this, you know,
farm type equipment that they had done at the property, which.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Courtney's been asking about this. Yeah, yes, items that you
would expect to see on a farm.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Not in the Hollywood Hills.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
I think is the so well, Steve Fisher posted today
on Twitter. I was up at like four and five
in the morning and I was like, oh my god,
oh my god. Well he posted that what they found
was this unused burn cage incinerator on David's property. For

(48:34):
those who you know aren't familiar date Pop Singer David
is a suspect in connection with the death of fourteen
year old Celeste Rivas Hernandez, whose remains were found in
a tesla registered to the Pop Singer on September eighth
of twenty twenty five, so a few months ago now.
So far no charges have been filed, although a grand
jury has reportedly met and reviewed the case evidence. So

(48:58):
Steve Fisher, the private investigator hired by the landlord finds
us burn cage.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Okay, now are you about to explain with a bird cage?

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yes, it is the scariest two words like that bird
cage a burn you are and you are in.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
It's like a little incinerator. And what's important to know
out of all this is that this, this specific burn
cage burns at approximately sixteen hundred degrees. Okay, so that's
how hot it gets in this burn cage. Guess how
much it takes to cremate humans. Guess about that sixteen

(49:40):
hundred about one hundred degrees.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Oh my goodness, it's less to burn a body in
an intrator. Why would you have an incinerator, I will.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
That's a good question. Now it was in a box
he put. Now see Fisher, you know he's on x
You can follow him at s F Underscore Investigates, and
he he's a private investigator. He was hired by the
landlord of the property to investigate what the heck happened
at his house.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
You know, the probably can't rent it anymore. Remember it
was twenty thousand dollars a month. Yeah, and I'm sure
it's vacant at this point.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
So I'm going to read what date, what Steve Fisher wrote,
and then I'm just going to read a paragraph, and
then we're going to chat. Okay, okay, Although my words
have been misquoted by some What I actually said about
certain items found at this address was that they were
items you expect to find on a farm rather than
in a home in the Hollywood Hills. One of those

(50:37):
items was a burn cage incinerator advertised to burn at
sixteen hundred degrees. Human cremations are typically performed at approximately
fourteen hundred degrees. An incinerator is not legal to use
within city limits and serves no legitimate purpose as at
a residential property in the Hollywood Hills.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
So it's not even illegal. You can't even know.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
It's not even something that you can have.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
So is the idea that perhaps they put Celeste, her
sweet little body in the front which is the front
trunk of their tesla, of his tesla, and maybe the
plan was to remove her and incinerate her, but then
the car got towed. Is that possibly?

Speaker 4 (51:22):
Possibly? We don't know when this burn cage was purchased.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
I was going to say, that would be so interesting
to know, or because it could go many different ways,
it could be exactly what you said, Stephanie, although keep
in mind it had been out on the street. I
feel like most people would assume, especially we're in that
location the Hollywood Hills, that they'd be towed immediately, you
would think, versus the length of time that they were

(51:50):
allowed to stay there.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Or you would go get the car right away if
it had been towed and you realized that the car
that you stuffed a body in has been towed, you
would go to the toe yard asap before the odor
really kicked in. Or maybe you would be too afraid to.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, I was just gonna say, I'm jumping in and
trying to apply release, apply logic to lunacy.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I'm like, wouldn't you think?

Speaker 3 (52:16):
And it's like that is if you are thinking real,
you know, logical, and not a lot of this.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
So the next part of the tweet is some will
argue that this item was intended as a prop for
a video. If that were the case, it raises several
obvious questions. Why would a fifty five pound burn cage
be delivered to a private residence instead of directly to
a prop designer or production house. Now, I saved this

(52:43):
one specifically for you guys, Courtney and Stephanie and Taha.
You guys have worked in production for many years?

Speaker 2 (52:51):
What do you think about that? I agree, I agree
with that assessment. I mean, why would you if you're
not going to be actually you do you burn wood
in it or something? Is there any other use other
than bodies? I think it's.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
Mainly cremated like rash, Like people that live in rural areas,
you know, have burn barrels and things like that.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
I think it's but I think even if it's for
a video, whatever it's going to be, you would send
it to a production area.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Send it to the production right.

Speaker 5 (53:16):
You wouldn't have it at your home. There's no logical.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Also, I mean, Devil's Advocate and we don't need to
dig deeper into the story. But Stephanie, I feel like
we were painting wooden hammers.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Well, we were, definitely. I mean there have been minimal
times that delivered to my house. Yeah, I Studios was
started around my one bedroom apartment, two better apartment, so yeah,
but we were greeting on a curve back then in
the early days. This is a really famous guy living
in a twenty thousand dollars a month house. That's no joke.

(53:47):
And let's remember, you know, even sending something to a set,
it's all expensive, right, So this is a heavy piece
of machinery. I'm assuming it's got to have some weight
and growth to it. So it's not the kind of
thing that I would want to deal with and have
moved because that's probably another thousand bucks on top of it.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
Right, ship it to your house and then back and forth.
And to your point, it is big. I had to
look up a picture because I've never seen a burn cage. Well,
I mean I was pretty ky, but for the audience,
I hadn't seen one. Yeah, right, to describe one. It's
almost like a big oversized trash can, if you will, circular,
and it looks, you know, sort of round metal, really large,

(54:25):
but it looks like it could be like almost four
to four feet tall. So it's a pretty big item
just for people who don't know what well.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
Steve Fisher goes on to say, why would it be
ordered before departing on an extended world tour? And why
was it never used in any video production? It is
also this is important. It is also important to note
that there were other items. I'm sorry, let me get
it right. It is also important to note that there

(54:53):
were additional items presented or present that could be used
in conjunction with the burn cage. Ah, we don't know
what those items, what is that what would be used
in coordination with the burn case. I listen, I almost
wanted to email them and be like, Bro Spilett.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Tell me.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
Right now, right now, this p I really writes on
a cliffhanger.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
He's very controversial, but like I said, he's undeniably effective,
Like he really is.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
So this is the same guy that also was served
kind of a subpoena handwritten and chose not to go to.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
Court that well, he was searching for a missing a
missing man in Georgia at the time. He couldn't just leave,
you know, like and go back anyway. He's very dedicated
to missing persons cases. That's like mainly his focus, and
he does a lot of search and rescue. He's like
SAR certified and stuff. So okay, now he goes on
and he says, to be to be clear, this burn

(55:52):
cage was not used. It was still new and in
the box. However, given that Celestie of Hernandez mains were
ultimately found in the Tesla front, the presence of an
incinerator at the same residence associated with that vehicle necessarily
raises questions about intent.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
If you're just joining us.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
We are talking about the fact that Stephen Fisher, the
private investigator hired by the landlord of pop singer murder
suspect David, has revealed he discovered and unused it's called
a burn cage incinerator on pop star David's property.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
And that's that is, as you say, we're right in.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
So he goes on to this is really kind of
flabbergasted to me.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
This part.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
He goes on to say the burn cage was not
taken during the search warrant, and because it was not used,
it appears it's not of importance to any possible criminal investigation.
But we think it's important context, even if not criminal.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
Yes, I'm with him one hundred.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
That's like, why has there been no arrest? I mean, honestly,
we have seen so many trials, We have seen so
many arrests and action being taken very swiftly. Now we're
even seeing it with Nick Reiner. Let's assume that there's
a confession or something allegedly allegedly allegedly. You know, they
are front and center, there's a press conference. We see

(57:27):
you know, the hawkman, the da he like had all
of the people that work in the DA's department all
lined up for a press conference. They're like not playing
any games, and they're like, we were looking for justice here.
Why is Celeste Reeves Hernandez not getting the same level.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Because because there was so much time in between her death,
her death and you know, her discovery, there was so
much time to clean evidence, hide evidence. They can't just
arrest somebody because they think it did something right.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
No, I know you always say that, and it always
sounds so right when you say it.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
But I'm like, why is there no arrest from the rooftops?
I know, me too, and I have to go, Okay, body, chill,
chill out. You know, this one's really important. This is
the lessons. The burn cage and other related items were
delivered to the residents under a false name, although the
deliveries were accepted at the property.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
So curious what the false name was? Me too, I
am too, And how many people were at this property?

Speaker 5 (58:34):
So that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
You know there were some people, you know. Obviously we
know that the grand jury had interviewed some of his
closest allies, meaning David the pop Stars manager or whomever
his business associates were for the tour specifically. We discussed
that already, so you know, these are people that had
maybe been in and out of that home. In fact,
one of them, if I'm not mistaken, was actually named

(58:57):
on the lease, like David I think was living manager. Yes, yeah,
the manager. It was his name on the actual right lease.
The assumption is that David the pop star was paying
for the lease or certainly that's where he was living.
So yeah, it was was this one of those places
that there was a lot of activity, people in and out,
Were people partying all the time? Was their drugs involved?

(59:20):
You know, why was Celeste Revs Hernandez at fourteen years
old out and about in the Hollywood Hills so much
and not in school? The poor thing?

Speaker 4 (59:29):
Right? And you know the grand jury has stuff happened
last week and to your what you were saying, Stephanie,
is that you know, his associates were being you know,
interviewed by the grand jury and questioned by the attorneys,
and you know that's all very secret. So we don't
know what happened, but we do know that when when

(59:53):
Robert Morgan Roth he's David's manager, and I think he's
the guy on the lease. I think there's another guy
named James Marshall, I think his name is, and he
it might be him, but I think it's I think
it's Robert. When Robert got done testifying it from the
grand jury, he went out into the hallowing, got on
his cell phone and was talking loud enough for people

(01:00:15):
to hear. And he was on the phone with somebody
and he described the questioning from the prosecutor, Beth Silverman
about why he didn't call police, and he said it
was very pushy and said it and you know, he said,
I feel like I didn't have the responsibility to do
that and I just wanted to cure, you know, continue

(01:00:36):
on with the tour. M So it's very it's very
you know, like call the police about what about the
relationship with the mind about or that there's you know,
this fourteen year old girl, you know, decomposing in his tesla.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
It really is crazy making.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
On the one hand, well it's crazy making with two
hands that there has not been an arrest given this time.
But they I was going to say, they have to
get it right, and obviously they have not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
It's our protection in this country, right exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
It's our protection.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Give you a break, though this guy can be at large,
like just killing people. If in fact, whether it's him
or somebody else, whoever this is who committed this horrible crime,
they technically are roaming amongst us or could absolutely be
a fright, you know, a flight risk. You know, I
think of everybody you know, by Brown University. My heart
is so broken, how scary that they don't have anybody

(01:01:41):
in custody. So there's a killer at large. There's a
killer then at large in the Hollywood Hills allegedly, allegedly,
allegedly or somebody who's capable of, you know, shoving a
fourteen year old, fifteen year old body into the front
chunk of a car and letting it just rot there.
Why does that person get to walk free, even if
there is double jeopardy bringing him in for something. But

(01:02:04):
I do think much more needs to be made of this,
and I don't feel like it's making the headlines every
day anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
I agree, it's kind of shifted to the side.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
Yeah, well, we will keep you up to date as
any new information comes out. And after the break, we've
got some troubling new claims that have surfaced in the
cruisehip death of eighteen year old Anna Kepner.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
We also have some talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Keep it here True Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime
all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Welcome back to true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanieleidecker here with Courtney Armstrong,
Body move in, and of course producer Taha and Sam
and Adam are in the control room. Man oh man.
There's been a lot of tragic stories to cover, of course,
include being Anna Kepner her you know, tragic, tragic death

(01:03:04):
upboard a cruise ship just eighteen years old. I think
we have a talk back relating to Anna Keepner. Let's
go to that first.

Speaker 9 (01:03:12):
Hi, this is Marisa from Maryland thinking about the bar
hold on Anna Kepner. What if she was just laying
there resting and the perpetrator just came in, rushed at
her and just put their arm on her neck. It
doesn't seem like it would be very hard to get
into that position to just surprise someone like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Thanks by, I don't know that I disagree, so, you know,
but I'm not the expert in terms of these types
of things, but how they described it was kind of
like a what's it called a mechanical choke hold, like
a mechanical infixation. Right, so when seeing it demonstrated, it
seems like a pretty straightforward, like the kind of chokehold
you put in, you put somebody in if you're like

(01:03:56):
rascaling around or if you're a rough housing basically headlock.
That's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Courtney gave a very interesting tip about this and Body,
I think you were actually the expert on this, so
I would have thought it wasn't very hard if you
have somebody in a choke hold. Courtney said, it isn't
that hard if you don't have your your like a
net what does it called your chin tuck or.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Your chin so like in this scenario that our talkbacker
left body. If you remember when Joseph and he was saying,
it doesn't necessarily need to be a choke hold, which
is from behind as we can see, but as you said,
from above, and if you get after someone who's sleeping
or not expecting it and get without being graphic, I

(01:04:43):
mean this is something you learn in self defense. If
you get straight to someone's throat, that's an apply enough pressure,
Like Joseph Morgan said, the time really depends upon how
much like pressure per inch is being put.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
On per inch.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
I think that's what he say.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Yeah, And so in the case of coming up on someone,
it would just be a large and easy target versus
if you're fighting and you put your chin down, which
is what all self defense. If you are ever grabbed
from behind, you put your chin down because it's actually
very hard to get an arm in there. I thought

(01:05:22):
that was a really interesting tip. I had never heard
that before. I was like, Court, I don't even know
that that ever occurred to me. And that's a good
little safety tip if you ever find yourself in a
situation keeping your chin down. Just to add to that,
keep your chin down if you're facing exphyxiation.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
And also, do not get in the car. Yeah, right,
for your life. Scream yell, make yourself throw up, whatever
it is. Do not silently. If you can get in
a vehicle, your your chance of living goes down fifty percent.
They say, wow, I digress, But that's just like a
harrowing thought. I feel like if somebody had a gun

(01:06:00):
to my head that would get in the car, I
would very quickly get in the car. And it's exactly
what you don't want to do. You want to fight
to the death and get loud, loud, loud, loud, and bite,
oh bite, you know whatever desperation brings. If you can
make yourself throw up, that's also a technique that about.

(01:06:22):
You know, like all the anxiety can maybe makes that easier,
but then people get so grossed out that they don't
really want to deal with me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Or urinating on yourself, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
My anxiety could look and save my life.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Literally, Yeah, I'm trying to assault you in any way,
could help me? Yes, if you can urinate on yourself,
oh a real turn off.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Listen, I'm fifty two years old. I can I can
urinate on command.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Right, So this is a tough one. So yeah, but
you know, body, when we spoke about this the last
time with Anna Kepner in this potential chokehold, you know,
you had made a very clear correct point that it's
not very easy to suffocate a person. It's just not
It takes a long time, it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Takes a couple of minutes, it takes some time. And
you know, we had spoken with Joseph on Sunday at
length about this actually, and he's opining that the verbiage
being used that it's basically face to face, a face
to face attack and not necessarily a toe hold, and

(01:07:30):
where the forearm is being pressed in the neck.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Which is like up against a wall or something wall
or laying down either way.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
Yeah, person is on top using their forearm against you will.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
And that would you know, that would take in my
you know, very layman's terms research three to five minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Wow, So I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
But there is also a difference between death and unconsciousness
because you can go on you just go unconscious very quickly,
and then you may not know that there's a problem.
You know, you can in very short seconds, like I'm
actually just double checking myself and I'm on oddly New
York City Mayor's Office Guide to Combat Domestic Violence, and

(01:08:18):
eleven pounds of pressure placed on the neck for ten
seconds can cause unconsciousness.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
And again I.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
Think Joseph said, five is what I think he's expecting
with this kind of choking.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
And that is also paste if it's on the jugular,
less than five pounds for ten seconds and cause unconsciousness.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
Unconsciousness, right, and then you know, And that's why oftentimes
you'll hear people say, why is it first agree premeditated murder?
When this person was strenguling, you know, strangled or you know,
choked out. And it's because it takes so long that
you're thinking about it as it's happening. That's premeditation.

Speaker 5 (01:08:57):
So contrary to the person's the talk back, this probably
wasn't an accident. It sounds like it took a little
time and effort.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
Can't imagine like if they were rough housing or you know,
something like that that you know it takes it takes
a hot minute for this to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
And then to that same point, if his arm was
up against her neck allegedly, allegedly allegedly, and then within
five to ten seconds she goes limp because she's unconscious,
and then you continue.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
On hostilian, you know, like, I have no idea this is, yeah,
throwing stuff at.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
The wall, But I really want to believe it was
not intentional, so badly I really want to believe. I
want to believe that. I want to believe that Rob
Reiner's son was so on drugs that he had no
idea what he was doing.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
This is true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio, we're talking true
crime all the time. We're right in the middle of
talking about the possibilities in the Anna Keptner case. You
want to weigh in, give us a call eight at
eight thirty one Crime Courtney. What's the latest update?

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Okay, So, the aunt of Florida teen Anna Kaepner has
spoken out for what I believe is the first time,
and she says that the eighteen year old homicide victim,
Anna Keepner was uncomfortable and quote worried about her stepbrother
going on the carnival cruise with her. And uh the

(01:10:25):
Anna Kaepner's stepbrother is considered a suspect in her murder
or in her death, so authorities have not charged anyone.
There's been really conflicting accounts about the victim, Anna Kaepner's
relationship with her sixteen year old stepbrother. He is the

(01:10:46):
one who she shared a room with on this ship.
So here's the top line of what Anna's aunt has
said is that Anna Kaepner wasn't really wanting to go
on the trip, specifically becau because her stepbrother was going.
She also Anna's aunt claimed that Anna had felt increasingly

(01:11:08):
uncomfortable in her own home and that the family dynamic
had been fractured long before the vacation. These were the
ant's words, and then when when Anna's aunt said she
learned about the sharing of the room with the stepbrother,
what she said was Anna was not comfortable. And then

(01:11:28):
the aunt said, oh, you only have to sleep in
the bed at night. The rest of the time you
can avoid him. So apparently this conversation went back and
forth a little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:11:39):
Just for clarity, this is the aunt on the mother's side,
father's side.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
This is the maternal aunt. So which is interesting. It
is interesting because if you guys remember, Anna Kepner's biological
mother has been out of the picture, largely kept out
of the picture by Annae Captain's father. But somehow Anna
Kupner is in some touch with her aunt.

Speaker 5 (01:12:06):
With her.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Now, keep in mind Mom and Dad, Anna's birth mother
and her father divorced when she was fourteen years old,
I mean four years old. Rather, Dad gets full custodies
by understanding, Mom gets kicked out of the club. Remember
she had to go to the funeral or the wake
in a disguise because she was told she was not
allowed to go to her own daughter's funeral. I don't

(01:12:29):
give a darn what the dynamic is within a family.
Do not rob a mother or a father of going
to their child's wake or funeral. That is a real tell,
but again different set of circumstances, not the focus. You're sorry. However,
so mom who's been left out of the mix has
a sister, and this sister is now weighing in. So

(01:12:52):
there's obviously some understanding because remember dad's mom, Mema, Mima
and Grandpa who were on the cruise also during this
hideous event. They claimed that the stepbrother and Anna had
a swimmingly wonderful relationship and they were carrying on as
you know a blended family, as blended families do. How

(01:13:15):
well have they've been married? How long? So the stepmother
comes into the mix. We know Anna has a mom,
they break up, Mom does not get custody, and dad
takes over. So what is that for fourteen years? It's
just for your dad's care and then somewhere along the line,
stepmom comes into the mix with her family the accused

(01:13:38):
step son. Correct? Correct? Do we know how long ago?
That was?

Speaker 4 (01:13:42):
The year?

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
Yeah, they were married last year. I think it was
December of twenty twenty four. What but that's their marriage.
I don't know, and maybe you do, your body they
could have been dating for a day or fourteen years,
but they were married.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
So he was made married previously to another woman and
so this was his third marriage and they got divorced
in twenty twenty three. Good.

Speaker 5 (01:14:11):
Oh, so this is really recent.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
Okay, so that's my listen, that's what I understand. But
we have to also remember too. I know I keep
bringing this this boyfriend up, but he said the similar
things the ant said.

Speaker 5 (01:14:23):
Yeah, totally, it is true.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
That's what the ant said. And Anna Keepner's ex boyfriend
also said that she was uncomfortable being around him.

Speaker 5 (01:14:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Oh my goodness. They're married for a year. And this
level of tragedy rips this family apart.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
Come wow, yeah, and this has it has nothing to
my knowledge, to do with the circumstances of Anna Kepner's death,
but just interesting in the family dynamic.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Part is Anna's aunt.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
What she has said is that Anna's father had falsely
told the victim, eighteen year old Anna Kaepner, that her
mother was not trying to contact her.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
So do you follow that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
So Anna Kaepner believed that her biological mother was not
trying to get into any contact with.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Her, but she lied about it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
But meanwhile she was because dad with the full custody
was lying about it.

Speaker 4 (01:15:25):
Oh wow, that literally breaks my heart. It's not emotional,
like this poor girl died thinking her mom didn't want
anything to do with her.

Speaker 5 (01:15:35):
And mom is trying to reach out and now has
to put on a wig. It makes my heart in
disguise to go to her own daughter's funeral, didn't even
find out about the death, Like I'm not a Google
search to find out now that that is that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Makes me want to cry too. No, it's very sad.
It was like a really bad relationship and you know,
you know, pocks in all the houses like what to
what end? Can you not love your child more than
hating your your exx well?

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
And we don't know though, I mean, we don't know
if that's do we know that's true though, Like I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
This is according to Anna Kaepner's aunt, who is the
sister of Anna Kaepner's biological mother.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
So this is what she pretty.

Speaker 5 (01:16:20):
Reliable so to be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
But it's sad. To my knowledge, Anna Kapner's father hasn't
said any responding to this. Yeah, so it's it's a
complicated and you know that's really sad. Yeah, it is,
And it just kind of adds to the layers since,
as you mentioned, Stephanie, the grandparents who were on the cruise,

(01:16:45):
you know, they said thick as thieves, and so did
the stepmother.

Speaker 4 (01:16:51):
Maybe you know, Anna presented, Maybe Anna presented to her
father's side of the family. You know, everything's peachy, her
mother's side of the family, you know, and friends or whatever.
She was like, Oh, this kid, I don't know. Yeah,
you know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
It's a world where she's living in that house with them.
So maybe this is the best way to keep things
peaceful and quiet by pretending I'm okay.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
Well, yeah, because my mom does the one thing to
do with me. I got to make sure dad's okay
with me being around.

Speaker 5 (01:17:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
And Stephanie with the stepmother, who again is the mother
of the suspect, she has said that Anna kaptainer or
the step brother and another one blended in there are
the three amigos.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Amigos.

Speaker 5 (01:17:39):
Yeah, yeah, Now I take it all with a grain
of salt.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
What a mess. I'm so sad to hear this story.

Speaker 5 (01:17:45):
I know that this one. Really it seems like every
time we talk about it, there's another layer that makes Yeah,
that's more and more upset and said it it's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
A loving a family. It's not easy. But by the way,
there's so many beautiful, blended families and success stories for that.
This is really tragic. And again back of the sliding doors,
had they not gotten married, you know, like really.

Speaker 5 (01:18:09):
Not going to that cruise anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Yeah, we've got some more stuff to dig into. We
got some talk thoughts coming up. Hopefully they'll lift her
some our spirits a little bit. Keep it right here
at True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney
and Body talking all kinds of things about sliding doors. Huh.
I know that one really got to us in detail
about the mom. Just really that one hit me. It's
just sad.

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
It's sad if it's true, and we don't know what
it is. But according to the aunt, it's true, right
that the you know, the dad was telling Anna that
mom really didn't want anything to do with her. And
we don't know the family diamond, but let's just assume
the aunt is you know, above board and is telling
the truth. Anna's mom did want to be in her life,

(01:19:07):
and this girl died thinking that number one, her mom
didn't want her. And number two, she had been telling
her mom's side of the family that she was uncomfortable
being around her stepbrother, and so she was telling her
mom's side of the family this, but she was telling
her dad's side of the family, Oh, we're the best friends.
And was she telling her dad's side of the family

(01:19:28):
this to stay safe and stay accepted because she had
nowhere else to go because mom didn't want her.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
In her mind, if.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
You're just joining us, it's Anna Kapner, the eighteen year
old who died on a cruise ship by strangulation, and
the suspect is their sixteen year old step brother.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
And it's just sad. It's just heartbreaking to me that.
I mean, my mom was such an important person to me,
and I just anyway, it just breaks my heart.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
And it breaks my heart too. We're all like this,
we've got at what's doing, what's family dynamics. I just
think it's worth taking a beat here because we have
talked a lot about first of all, young people committing

(01:20:19):
atrocious crimes. Right, So this is a sixteen year old boy, underage,
not even legal, hasn't even had a first drink, who's
now being charged with first agree murder, right, is that
the reality that we're looking at here? Number one? Number two,
I mean Rob Reiner's son, Nick Reiner, young man, granted,
who's thirty two years old, but this has been going

(01:20:39):
an ongoing thing. A young man living at home committing
such a vicious, vile crime. This was not a fit.
This was vicious. The kind of thing patricide is so
hard to accomplish. David the pop star again, this is
a young person with their lives ahead of them. Why

(01:21:00):
the world would he ever do this, you know, allegedly
allegedly allegedly. It just seems shocking to me that people
with big lives ahead of them would stoop to something
so horrible. Like everybody loses now them included, the perpetrator included. Yeah,
And like blending families, it's complicated. It's hard, you know,

(01:21:21):
it's hard.

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
Everybody's trying to find their their role and where they
fit in. And you know, like, Okay, now I've got
an extra brother, or now I've got a sister, or
you know, now I've got a you know, a step mom,
and you know you're trying to you're trying to and
I don't know, if you guys have any you know,
experience in this, but I I do, and you do

(01:21:44):
try to kind of be invisible while also you know,
kind of being a people pleaser as a child, right
doing it You just don't want to cause problem, don't
want to cause problems. Things right, settle around you, Right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
I'm trying to find this horrible statistic that I read yesterday,
and forgive me if I'm just it's not coming up
so quickly, and maybe somebody listening has the information, but
just talking about step families and abuse in families that
there's a significantly high number when you look at the
number of children who are sexually abused, it's the step

(01:22:25):
parent father. That's there's like a tick in that, an
uptick in that, which is such a terrible tale to tell.
I'm just looking for the actual step dad. It's from
my stepdad is the best. I have been great. I
love my dad and I miss them every day. But
my mom struck gold twice, she really did. He's the best.

(01:22:46):
That's just the best. So I'm not sure if this
is what you're referring to.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
But in evolutionary psychology, the Cinderella effect, it describes a
phenomenon of a higher incident of child abuse and mistreatment
by step parents than biological parents.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
It makes sense, It absolutely makes sense. It's a bye.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
It's a byproduct that mammals, such as call as mammals
are biased towards biological family. And then also you are
obviously now in close proximity to someone who necessarily is
vulnerable because they are a minor and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
They don't want to speak up too much, it says.
Some data suggests children and step families are eight to
sixty times more likely to experience sexual abuse or infant
side infinicide and fanticide, infanticide. I don't like that word.
What is that in fanticide compared to those with two

(01:23:49):
biological parents? God, oh my gosh, in fanticide, I never
heard of that before. That closest horrible word I've ever.
It's a it's a in like to Courtney what Courtney
was saying.

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
As mammals, you know, oftentimes like a lion, for instance,
will kill its cubs, a male lion so that the
female can reproduce again.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
It happens to stop. Yeah again, like we're not this
is not a you know, everybody should have very healthy
step families, but again blending pointymore inn andy sampler. Movie
was great.

Speaker 4 (01:24:32):
I still kind of wanted to make sure that you know,
I fit in. I mean, my my stepfather was phenomenal,
but I you know, I wanted to be the good
kid so that he wouldn't leave, you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
I mean, Like or that your mom wouldn't be upset
if something bad had happened. Maybe I won't tell, or
if dad abused me, I won't say anything because I
don't want my mom to be unhappy.

Speaker 4 (01:24:54):
I'd really like to know what the relationship was between
stepmom and Anna that furious about, Like did Anna was
Anna excited to have a mom?

Speaker 5 (01:25:04):
Mm hmmm?

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
And was she kind of submissive to that a little bit?

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:09):
Listen, I'm getting too deep into this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
No, I know we're all, but it's complicated. It's sad.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
My heart breaks for the whole family. Honestly, I feel
bad even talking about it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:20):
Well, do we want to change the mood?

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
And yes?

Speaker 5 (01:25:22):
Go to a talkback? How about that? How about.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
Waited bests?

Speaker 10 (01:25:30):
Lady Ali from Orlando, You guys are talking about the
movie Beautiful Boy with Deve Carrell and Timothy Shallo may,
I highly highly highly recommend reading the book first. You
love the movie even better, So just a suggestion, have
a good night.

Speaker 4 (01:25:46):
I want to read more books.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
I was a literature major. I haven't read a book
all year this year. Yeah English, Yeah, wow. I loved
to read. I was a big reader. Meet to you.
I literally do not read. And I mean I read
the newspaper. I read articles all day, not just for fun.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
Yeah, but you also have you've gone through since where
you've read many non fiction books, many many many So
true that as well is re act and art of reading.

Speaker 5 (01:26:18):
So at me as a big reader? How often? How many?
What's your average book per Let's say I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
Mine would say it can vary so widely. I mean
I usually.

Speaker 5 (01:26:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
I'm kind of usually reading three at a time. She
always travels with a heav you can read all of
her books with I keep carry on. It's like watching
her carried grips nine bricks, like you just put that
on an iPad. But I guess it's you know, it's

(01:26:53):
nice to have the actual book, and her place is
a library.

Speaker 5 (01:26:57):
I love that and I'm such the I wish I
want to read more. I hate it. I take a
book every vacation. I'm like, I'm going to read this book.
It's it's the entire time in the room. And my
goal though, is I'm going to read a book a
month because I want to be a little more like Courtney.
So that's my New Years.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
It's it's such a good thing. But yeah, it's it's
it's just my pleasure, do you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
I guess it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
So the Beautiful Boy the book. We're supposed to read
the book and then watch the movie at that listening.

Speaker 5 (01:27:27):
I don't think that's what happened for me.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
But the movie was really good.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
Yeah, I would like to read the book though, I mean,
I love reading. The last book I read was in
Malaysia and that was two years ago. Yeah, I watched all.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
I could do.

Speaker 5 (01:27:41):
Oh that's right. We were se questioned without.

Speaker 4 (01:27:43):
We were sequestered, right, we would trade books. It's funny too.
You guys have in production. You guys know in production,
and yeah, you always did it worse selection to make
sure to make sure we weren't.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
Write anything in there.

Speaker 5 (01:27:56):
That's funny.

Speaker 4 (01:27:57):
Wow, Yeah, like Jason's the Mole or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:27:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
I've wanted to see that. I've been.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
I've had to because Stephanie, as you said, get ready
for a tear jerker.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
I had to put myself in the it's so well
act The acting is so good, it's so good, Steve
Carell is brilliant in it, and it just has a
really nice look at the truth behind. You know what's.

Speaker 4 (01:28:22):
Interesting that these comedians like Steve Carell and like Jim Carrey.
One of my favorite movies is The Eternal Sunshine for
the Spotless Mind.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
Yeah, and it's like it's.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
One of the serious movies right with Jim Carrey, and
he's so good in it. And I feel like Steve
Carell has that same vibe. Like I know, if I
see Steve Carell cry, I'm going to beat like a
lunatic like I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Crying, yeah, or Robin Williams hunting, I will talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
A cry fast. I just watched again and it's it's
not your fault and it's not your fault. It's not
your fault.

Speaker 4 (01:29:02):
I just cried that three weeks ago. You were going
to be happier now, I'm Can we talk about Didy,
Let's talk about.

Speaker 5 (01:29:16):
Talk back?

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Do we really?

Speaker 8 (01:29:19):
Hey, ladies, just watching in the Shawn Combs documentary, and
I'm so disappointed to hear from the two jurors. The
one durs seemed totally swinten with him, and then the
seconder blamed Cassie for not leaving Seawan Colmbs when he
was being abusive.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
What do you guys think? No, I am so glad
you said that. I literally wanted to throw my phone
at the TV because it was also so grateful that
it exists. That interview with the maleger specifically is who
I'm speaking about, and again this is not personal to him.
It just shows why victims are often not believed and

(01:29:58):
don't come forward or don't come fone because it's mindsets
and people like him that just do not get the
cycle of trauma and abuse period the end, just like
we heard from so many that you know, sometimes people
go back seven times. By the way, that same rule
applies for you know addicts and drug addiction, right, they

(01:30:19):
go back, They go back. It requires so much grace.
But that jur had zero He had no idea about
what goes on in an abusive relationship. And I think
the fact that we get to talk about it is
so important because he's not alone.

Speaker 4 (01:30:36):
He is now away, right, Yeah, his opinion is not unique.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
Right, No, unfortunately, and you know a juror being smitten
by a celebrity is also not unique.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:47):
So I was like, first of all, why did they
sit down for this interview? But then I was grateful
beyond because they couldn't have spoken for themselves any better.
It completely sums up why victims are often dismissed. Where's
the Epstein files? We have two days left with day?

Speaker 5 (01:31:03):
Is it right now?

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
Is there an hour countdown?

Speaker 5 (01:31:05):
Yet?

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Three more sleeps? Three more sleeps? Oh my god, that's
all going to hit the air while we're in the weekend.

Speaker 5 (01:31:13):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
And I'm gonna Stephanie has brought me down the rabbit
hole and I am just up pouncing behind because I'm
in the middle of listening to it's about an hour
and a half article deep dive on Jeffrey Epstein and definitively.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
How he got his cash.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
I started the email definitely today.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
I was just saying, okay, yes, it came from Body.
I was like too, and you were like no, and
then I couldn't know, and then I couldn't find it Body.
But I was like Body, just sent this to me. Yeah,
can you read forward that I'm gonna read that before.

Speaker 4 (01:31:47):
I'm going to Yes, of course i'll resend it. It's
so yeah, I started reading it. It's it's from I
think it's the New York Times. Yeah, and I think
it's it's about how because we were literally just talking
about the money. Yeah, follow the money, the money.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
So starting off, I'm not going to remember a single name,
but it's a lot of meet a woman who's rich
and connected and embroil yourself with her, meet all her
connections and keep moving up.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
And that's why he was so effective working at that
high school, the Dalton School, where he was meeting very
wealthy families in New York City and you know, meeting
the parents of very influential, wealthy children. That was the stick.

Speaker 5 (01:32:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
But it's interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:32:34):
So i'll send it to you to Okay, thank you. Yeah,
I'll start. I'll read that first and then i'll start
my book.

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
See and you guys, so do you know think that
the president tomorrow is making a public address in prime time?
Do you think the Epstein files will be addressed in that?

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
I think it can be about like Venezuela.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
Yeah, golf. Is it a way to cover up the
fact that the next day we're supposed to have all
the files. I can't imagine that the victims are not
at the ready with a list that they're ready to
start rambling on about. Despite if we don't get more
in the next forty eight hours, I'll be so shocked
and disappointed. I will not be shocked, but I will

(01:33:14):
be disappointed.

Speaker 5 (01:33:15):
I'll be disappointed, but I will.

Speaker 4 (01:33:16):
I'll be disappointed, but I'm not going to be show.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
Yeah, i will be shocked. I'll be shocked if we
get them. I mean, listen, believe in the justice system
at this point, I mean, I guess that says it all.
You're not alone in that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:30):
It's not eating the system or even just this administration
is just men in power.

Speaker 2 (01:33:35):
I just don't trust them.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
And in this particular instance of Epstein, you know, the
whole fool you want sham on you. Well, now we're
at being fooled fifteen times when of the FBI, aney General, the.

Speaker 5 (01:33:47):
President like, yeah, it's so true, frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
So true. Well, we're gonna definitely, I assume have some
updates on that tomorrow. TikTok, TikTok, reminder everybody, Jarrett Farantino,
our most favorite prosecutor, will be with us to answer
any of your legal questions, so send them in. This
has been a great night. Sorry for the tough topics,
but we love you and we're so grateful to share

(01:34:11):
our Wednesday night with you. Tomorrow. Bye bye

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