Survivor Virginia Giuffre’s First Meeting With Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell; Controversial Bryan Kohberger Movie Announced

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, October fifteenth, and we
are so glad you're here, because yes, we have a
stack night of headlines. So pull up a chair if
you're not driving, and join us around our table to yours,
because listen, we have a lot to get through. Virginia Goofrey.

(00:41):
You remember her, She's the victim of Jeffrey Epstein. She
claims to have been sex trafficked by Epstein. Angilaine Maxwell
to Prince Andrew, you'll remember when she was seventeen years old.
She took her own life back in April and has
a memoir coming out and excerpts have been now released,

(01:02):
and there's some really shocking things also in the Idaho
student murders. Yet again, Brian Coberger also making some headlines
with some new developments about who would have been on
his witness list And at this point do we all
still care? Do we still care? I guess is the question.
And then this you know pop star David who we've

(01:25):
been talking about night after night after night, still not named.
The suspect, still not a person of interest. Interestingly, the
home where he was renting, where his tesla was parked
out front of, and of course the you know, the
body of beautiful Celestirievus found in his trunk. The homeowner
has hired their own private investigator and some are curious

(01:48):
what that would suggest. And then later in the show
we have Sheina Scarborough back and we're so glad that
she's here to talk about some new developments in her
daughter's case. You know, she lost her daughter, Shrawde, and
you know, Chardet's been in our hearts and she's going
to she's going to share with us a little about
what she's doing in her honor at Chadai's Voice Foundation.

(02:10):
So we're really looking forward to having her here, ladies.
I feel like there's a ton to get to. We
also have quite a bit of talkbacks coming through, so
thank you for those. We really want you to join
the conversation eight eight eight three one Crime and the talkbacks,
we just love them, keep them coming.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Taha gets so excited the guys get so excited. We
see a little blinking light that says talkbacks.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
So yeah, it's great to get the dms.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
We really do love those as well, but boy, is
it even better to hear your voice.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
So keep them coming. We're going to jump right into
this new development in terms of Virginia Gufray's memoir. You know,
a post death memoir is unusual, and you know many
have been waiting for this. You know, some of these
details we know because she was the lead victim in
the Epstein case. You'll remember her. She's like the blue

(03:00):
and the photograph with Prince Andrew, that famous photo of
the famous photo. That's right, And according to the BBC,
Buckingham Palace has not given any comments on the issue.
But you know, she's saying some difficult things to hear,
really painting a picture about what it was like to
kind of be be sort of wooed away from mar

(03:23):
A Lago at the time. You know, Trump was not president.
He was you know mar A Lago in West Palm Beach,
the very Gigi Hotel. Virginia Gufray's father was a lands
keeper there and when she was about sixteen years old,
she got a job at the spa, you know, probably
folding towels and you know, a high school gig. And

(03:44):
at some point during that job she was introduced to
Epstein and kind of taken into his world. And we
know what happens in his world, or at least what
he's been accused of and found guilty of. And then
obviously we know this goes to the Island. So she's
been the biggest advocate for the many voices who have
said that they too were trafficked and they too were

(04:07):
put into really scrupulous situations. But she was sort of
the first. So, yeah, we can actually read some of
these excerpts. We all know that I can't read that well,
so not out loud. I promise I can in the
real world, but it gets me nervous, So who wants
you to read it? I get so nervous if I
have to kind of really read something verbat him out loud.

(04:28):
I just yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, mean, I
can't really stay on a script.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
But these are worth hearing, and boy, they really make
me want to see what's in this book. So one
excerpt is faced with Epstein's bare backside. I look to
Maxwell for guidance, I'd never gotten a massage before, let
alone given one. But still, I thought, isn't he supposed
to be under a sheet. Maxwell's blase expression indicated that

(04:54):
nudity was normal. Calm down, I told myself, don't blow
this chance. I wanted to be a good student.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Oh, she's so young, she wants to be compliant.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Actually, well, we're trained to be compliant as a young girls.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yes, you know, to be polite somebody's older. Yeah, this
dispects your respect your elders.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
It sounds like the playbook, especially an elder who's giving
the suggestion that they could further your job or maybe
help you get toward college. You know, there was something
sort of probably very fancy about all of the players
in this story, and then knowing that Elaine Maxwell, according
to her, was sort of giving the nonverbal you know,
iq of it's cool, It's totally cool. This is what

(05:39):
happens here. You know, when you see that from another woman,
you kind of that que probably hits pretty hard.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
So there's another one.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I'm sorry, no, I was gonna say risk. He said
to respect your elders.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
He was forty seven when they met the first encounter,
and that was nearly three times as old.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
That's the one I was going to talk about. Oh,
she said, it says here, say hello to mister Jeffrey Epstein,
Maxwell instructed. But before I could do so, the man
spoke to me. You can just call me Jeffrey. I
nodded at the gray haired stranger as he laid back down.
He was forty seven years old, nearly three times older
than me.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, you know when you're at that age too, you're like, oh,
that's just somebody in my dad's age, right, You kind
of equate bad level of age with like a father
or a grandfather. So you know your brain isn't going to, oh,
my goodness, this person's like straight up hitting on me
or straight up putting me into a sexy scenario. You
know that might just be so not on the radar.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
Right, And here's a great example of how why Galaine
was so effective, as like, this recruiter listen to this. Besides,
while the man on the table was nude, it's not
like I was alone with him. The fact that a
woman was with me made me breathe easier. Fake it
till you make it, I thought, as I tried to
project a can do energy. So Gleane made these girls

(06:58):
feel more safe, mm is what we've been talking about. Yeah, right,
that's why.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
She Now that would be called grooming, right, So that
is official version of what that looks like. And that's
really the playback of you know, influential people, somebody with
more stature, financial gains. You know, it's a real failure systemically.
You could just see how somebody who you know, listen
in retrospect, everyone's like, well, you know what you were

(07:24):
getting into, and you could hear all of that, but like,
let's be real. Imagine you know, being a young person
or any person don't know to be young. You can
be an old person and walk into the lion's nest
too and not realize it, and you know, suddenly you're
kind of getting roped in, and then you're embarrassed, and
then you maybe feel ashamed, and then you can't tell anybody,
and then and then and then, and you know, again,

(07:47):
that's the playbook. If in fact it.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
Is true, there's another person there, a mature woman, or
she's not mature, but an older woman there, so you assume, like, okay,
she must not think this is okay, he's a if
she's here. Mostly wealthy businessman, so this must be on
the up and up. These people have done this all
the time. I think it's anyway, it's just horrible that
just it makes me cringe and my blood curl every
time we talk about some of these. But could keep

(08:10):
going because some of the other excerpts are even more
upsetting as you continue.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
There was one This one breaks my heart.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
I mean, all of it is unbelievably touching, but she
writes from the start, I was groomed to be complicit
in my own devastation. Of all the terrible wounds they inflicted,
that force complicity was the most destructive. I was about
to spend more than two years in Epstein and Maxwell's orbit,
my job to do whatever they asked, whenever they asked it.

(08:37):
There were no bars on the windows or locks in
the doors, but I was a prisoner trapped in an
invisible cave.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I mean, that's very real for many many people. You know,
she's kind of, you know, giving voice to many victims.
I know, not just within the sound of our voice, sadly,
you know, throughout the world. I think there's more than
you think of this kind of thing happening, And I
think it's the silence that really allows it to perpetuate.
So you know she's really screaming from after death, which

(09:08):
is pretty haunting.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
Right, And back to what you had said earlier, Stephanie,
about you get in it and then you know they're
shame involved. You know, of all the wounds they inflicted,
that force complicity was the most destructive. So knowing that
she was party to these horrible acts, well, this is
true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I'm Courtney.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
I'm here with Stephanie and Body and we're talking about Epstein,
survivor of Virginia Gruffrey. Her book, her memoir is coming
out posthumously and if you have any thoughts, we do
want to hear from you. We're at eight at eight
three one crime. And did you guys see what Virginia
Guffray had wrote to her collaborator on the book, Amy Wallace.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Let's can you read it?

Speaker 3 (09:51):
What is that?

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (09:52):
So this was literally just weeks before her death, and
she wrote, the content of this book is crucial prative
that the truth is understood and that the issues surrounding
this topic are addressed, both for the sake of justice
and awareness. In the event of my passing, I would
like to ensure that nobody's girl is still released passing, yes,

(10:16):
which I had thought because I happened to read this
a while ago, and I thought, what woman, It's not
like she was an elderly woman, not so young.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Now that could be interpreted to ways. You know, you
know where my brain initially went, you know, you know, oh,
my goodness, she was you know, she was taken She
was taken out because why would she take her own life.
She's writing this memoir, she's seeing justice. You know, there's
a power in numbers. There had been some momentum. She
was also the frontman on the documentary as well, so

(10:47):
she really did put herself out there. Why now, you know,
is she you know, she has children, et cetera. But
the other side to that is that she was the
victim of sexual abuse, and I know life was a
little hard because she lived in silence and had found
a troubled relationship allegedly, and you know, maybe that did

(11:08):
lend to her taking her own life. It just seems
like the timing is just awful. And you know, there
are so many other voices now coming together, maybe in
part because of her passing, many of them congregated. I
think at her memorial, which was apparently very touching. Lisa Bryant,
the director of the documentary, was here discussing that, and

(11:28):
you know, many of them hadn't spoken even to each
other and rallied together as we know on Capitol Hill
and many even then, we're learning things that they had
in common or parts of their stories being shared that
really hadn't been done before, which is pretty wild. So
interesting time in giving that, I know that there is that,
you know, infamous, this infamous quest for the files to

(11:52):
be released and for full transparency by many of the victims,
who you know, have vowed that if not released, that
they will release their own list. Listen, Prince Andrew was
kind of off the hook a bet. You know, he
was able to kind of travel freely despite his conviction
in two thousand and eight for soliciting a minor. And
there have been many civil suits that have gone back

(12:13):
and forth. You know, there's been a lot of real
money exchange. Why and I don't know where is the money?
And I know there was that really big, you know,
kind of drop of information that really put a light
on JP Morgan, Chase Bank and Deutsche Bank, and very
large transactions between Epstein and others, and you know, what

(12:36):
does that all mean. I think we're all still kind
of scratching at the same question, hoping for an answer
of some kind. I mean, these are.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Really powerful, potentially very very powerful people that are involved
in these heavy sums of money being transferred and whatnot.
And because of that, and I remain skeptical that we're
ever going to know the truth I do.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
I just leave we're going to know it.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
I believe, I hope, I hope that you're right, and
I hope that I'm wrong. But history has shown us
powerful people get away with things all the time, and
it's something I feel like we're just supposed to accept.
And I don't like this at all, Like I don't
like that.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
And keep in mind, I think the reason why this
is so significant is not that we're just trying to
beat a dead horse. No, it's just really because it's
still happening. The idea is that this very large global ring,
if in fact what we're insinuating is accurate, or what's
being alleged, or there's you know, a bajillion theories about
all of this, So take your own theories and you know,

(13:37):
use your own sense, right what feels authentic to you
as even we're all unpacking at real time. But I
think that the fear would be it's really happening. Still.
Epstein was a piece of the puzzle, right, he might
have been the one that was blackmailing people. That might
have been, you know, his stick. But the actual sex
trafficking part of young girls being used used in taking

(14:00):
over borders is a very big operation that is continuing
real time. Absolutely. That's why we are screaming from the
rooftops about it.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Oh, it's happening right now today. Yeah, I mean right,
I mean it's.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Happening literally, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
One thing before break, just on the Prince Andrew. What
Goufre writes in her memoir is that Prince Andrew acted
as having sex with me was his birthright.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Eh wow, I know, is that what he's said? Is
it possible? That is what she said? That is what
she wrote.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
She said that he displayed a sense of entitlement during
their sexual announcwers, Well, listen, keep it here. We have
a lot more show to get through. Brian Colberger's plea
deal that shocked everyone, but it was who was said
to testify that we're going to be talking about and
we have an update in the pop star David's case.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Keep it here True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True
Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all the time.
I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my favorite partners in crime

(15:17):
or partners in non crime, Body move In and Courtney Armstrong.
How about my partners in Unpacking the Crime? I don't know.
That's a little bit of a mouthful. So criminals, we're
going to do working titles, working titles. So my mates
in unpacking true crime?

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Y that works?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
How do you think you know? Just to kind of
put a capper. Also on the Virginia Dufray book, one
theory could be that is it possible that he was
being honeypotted right, that some of these people, maybe including
Prince Andrew himself, were being brought to this island under
false pretenses, and that they weren't checking IDs, and that
there was a working assertion that the messuse is or

(16:00):
the girls that were there were of age. Is that possible?
And that was Epstein's scheme, which would be to have
world leaders put in compromising positions, whether they knew it
or not and therefore would be lured into this black
hole of maybe blackmail. Right, So that's one set of problems. So,

(16:23):
you know, Prince Andrew, maybe he's the victim in this,
but you know, or I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
That birthday book had a whole lot of quote jokes
about young girls and cash and all of the above,
I think honestly most likely scenario. Yeah, it's a little
bit of this, a little bit of that. Maybe someone
did go unwittingly. And boy, this nineteen year old looks young.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
But I mean you look at that mature of him
and her when she was young too. She looks pretty
darn young period the end. And you know, I'm answering
my own question here because remember, infamously, Prince Andrew maintained
relationship with Epstein even after his first conviction where he
helped he pled guilty to being a sex offender. So

(17:09):
so did many Yeah, I guess what a bummer, What
a bummer. We'd love to hear from you if you
have any feedback on this. Later in the show, we're
also going to be talking about pop star David in
any new developments there, and later we have we have
Shade Robinson's mom with us, Sheena Scarborough. She's back to
update us on the case, and then first we'll go

(17:31):
to a talkback right now.

Speaker 6 (17:33):
Hi, my name is Carla.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Just wanted to say I love the show.

Speaker 6 (17:36):
First thing I listened to every morning.

Speaker 7 (17:38):
Adding to the Brian.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
Koberger talk, I don't believe that he was an in cell.
I believe he was celibate, but not involuntarily in cells.
Believe women don't want them.

Speaker 7 (17:50):
He was.

Speaker 6 (17:52):
He believed he was too good and he wanted the
perfect woman. Also, any news on baby Emmanuel.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Thanks?

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Oh baby a man?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh what a great vamp again?

Speaker 8 (18:03):
So good.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
I'm going right right to Baby Emmanuel because it's so
weird that you mentioned that I was singing about baby
Emmanuel today and there are no new updates. They have
not located Baby Emmanuel. I know that they uh were.
There's a lot of speculation that the police department has
not thoroughly searched the landfill, and there's a lot of criticism,

(18:28):
specifically online about that, and that's where it's at right now. Unfortunately,
So no, unfortunately, no no updates on baby Emmanuel. As
far as b Kko's yeah, I agree with you. I
don't think Bart Bryan Koberger was an in cel either.
I think he displayed I think he had in cell tendencies.
He was very misogynistic, but as you you know, very
adequately putting out. You know, he was looking for the

(18:50):
perfect woman of no you know, genetic defect and you
know whatnot. And he would brag to his male friends
that he was trying to make friends with that he
could walk into a bar and have any woman he wanted.
That's very unin cell like. But it could also just
be a.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Front, like somebody who's like, oh, yeah, I'm the most
and that person feels the leastest. Right, that is very possible. Yeah,
I mean I guess that is really possible. But we
were talking about this today and god, I think I'm
talking about it in my head all the time. Is like,

(19:27):
why am I still so interested in all things Brian Coberger,
even the fact that he's he's confessed he's serving his time,
Yet you know, there is just this interest, and you know,
I want to say that I'm not interested, yet I
totally am what you want me.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I want him to like just live his life in
obscurity at this point, I know, but I still want
to answers. Do you know what I mean? So I'm
very conflicted all the time. I'm like you, like I
want to forget about him forever.

Speaker 9 (20:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think it's because there's still this why why did you?
You know what I mean, like this unanswered question, and
that even if I had the answer to, it's not
going to be satisfied like that, what answer would make
us be satisfied?

Speaker 2 (20:15):
That's right? I mean that's where I usually bump up of.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
You know, you're trying to put reason to the unreasonable,
You're trying to put sanity to the insane.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
There is, right, what's the good reason?

Speaker 8 (20:27):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Now I get that there isn't. There isn't period, right,
but even just a general obsession, like let's just talk
about it. You know, frankly, we've done as a company.
We you know, Courtney, you voice it, body, you know,
you participate in it.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
We all do.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Three seasons of a podcast plus a documentary on the
same topic, right, which is a lot of content. And
I share that simply to say it's a lot of
brain space that we've all personally put into this one
case and why And then you would think you'd be like, oh,
never again, right, put it all away after what we

(21:04):
now know, and I don't know myself personally, it's still
sort of I don't know, it's still scratches at something,
and every case does in its own way. But I
think just from a national perspective, it just seems unquenched.
And I don't know. I don't know the answer, but
I'm asking it to myself.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
So maybe somebody you know out there has an answer.
Give us a call eighty eight thirty one Crime or
leave us a talkback on the iHeartRadio app. Are you
still thinking about this case? And if you are, why, like,
why are we doing this to ourselves? So I have
some VK news now that we're speaking of it, right
if UBK well. Newly unsealed Core documents reveal that Brian

(21:47):
Coberger took this plea deal just days after prosecutors added
his sister Amanda to the potential witness list. Surveillance footage
shows he shopped at Costco again. We knew, we knew
he went into Costco, we knew he went to Albertson's,
but now we have the footage of him walking into
the store and he's very casual about it all. It's

(22:08):
very very interesting, and he's very unkempt. By the way,
his shirt is like half tucked in, half ducked out
like it just he looks dishoveled, but very calm. It's
very interesting. Again, if you don't know who Brian Coberger is,
because we've kind of been talking about him for a
hot minute. He in November of twenty twenty two, Brian
Coberger stabbed to death for University Idaho students Kaylee Consalves,

(22:33):
Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. They were all
at their home at an off campus resident in Moscow, Idaho,
and Brian Coberger was a criminology PhD student at a
neighboring university in Washington State, Washington State University in fact,
and he was arrested in December of that year and
pled guilty in July of twenty twenty five, receiving four

(22:56):
life sentences without a role. Soana Coberger, she's on this
witness list, and it's worth noting that she was also
on the Mitigation Witness list, And if you don't know
what that is, it's really important to know. So a
mitigation witness, they help humanize the defendant and contextualize their

(23:17):
actions so that the judge or the jury may consider
a lesser sentence. So not only was she going to
be prosecuted or a witness for the state, she was
going to be called in as a mitigation witness. And
those witnesses usually happen during sentencing or penalty phases.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's very interesting, that is first of all, I'd never
heard that. Yeah, it's like a witness.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
He was my brother in let's ri I'm making I'm
making this up, so please understand, I'm making this up.
He was my brother and the babysitter abused him. She should, right,
So was she going to be a hostile witness?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Do we know for the state?

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Not that, not that I know of. I mean, we
have no idea.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Just okay, Yeah, to be put in though, I fier
they have a very nice family. He has a very
lovely family by all accounts. You know, to be a
family member connected to this is its own nightmare. Yeah,
and of itself. And again that's not to minimize anything
that the victims' families are going through, of course. But
we talked about the ripple effect, right right.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
This ripple effect has affected the Coburgers one hundred percent.
Now it's although it's important to note that in twenty fourteen,
Brian Coberger's father called the police because Amanda, the sister
that got called to be a witness, got her phone
stolen by Brian and he was arrested during this this thing.

(24:44):
So maybe she was coming to tell the state about
this burglary, right, and there was this history of you know, well,
I should say alleged history of burglary. And we know
that Brian Coberger was studying sexual burglary in particular at WSU,
so it might have been to give the jury background

(25:08):
history on his crimes.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Amanda also a bummer or is it just Dad was like,
I'll you know which we've you know, see parents do.
I'm going to teach you a lesson, and you know,
kind of it's like, you know, when you don't make
her a few if you're my mom, she calls the cops,
you know, so you roll up to scare some sense
and users, you know, for being a few bits late.
Thank you, mom, you know. So is it that kind

(25:33):
of just an extreme parenting tool maybe or or is
there something there there? It's hard to know. I feel
for the family on all sides of this, so and
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Am I confused by my own interest I guess it's.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Confused by my own interest too, I really am. But
you know this, this is something that we're just We're
not going to have answers. I don't think anytime soon.
This is true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy Moving
and I'm here with court Armstrong and Stephanie Leidegger, and
we are talking about Brian Coberger. We want to hear
from you. Give us a call. Eighty eight thirty one Crime, Courtney,
what do you got?

Speaker 6 (26:08):
Well?

Speaker 4 (26:08):
I have Speaking of the families, I have an update
on the Consoalvest family, the family of Kaylee Gonsalves, the victim,
one of four victims.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
They're expressing anger.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
They are expressing frustration over an upcoming Lifetime movie that
is about Coberger's crimes. This project was announced without their
consent and it's titled The Idaho Murders.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
An actor named Miles Mary has.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Been cast to portray Brian Coberger in the film, and
he looks just like him. Miles Yes, Miles Mary, as
in Merry Christmas. The Consalvast family among other victims, relatives
that were not consulted or even notified before the public announcement,

(27:00):
and Hayley gonsolved as a sister Olivia, who you may
remember from being a powerhouse. During the victim's statements, she
voiced strong frustration. She said, her sister, the other victims
are quote not a lifetime movie. She condemned the scripted dramatization,
and Kaylee's father, Steve Gonsalvez, who has been very out

(27:24):
in the press, and you know, under understandably he expressed
dismay and he feels that the film steals their personal
tragedy without their input.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Hmmm. Yeah, you know, I'm not really interested in dramatization
of this personally. I you know, documentaries are one thing,
but these, you know, drama entertainment, scripted TV shows, I
really no interest in personally.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Well for me, for me, it's without the family's consent.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
So for example, Amanda Knox, who was on here memorably
and inspirationally, she was deeply involved.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
That was a movie.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
I think that's a horse of a different eye color.
It's different, that's totally different. But you know, all of
these families to be you know, scrolling on their phone
or flipping through the channels and just just see this
and have not been informed. Seems not even being informed.
Seen that's the crazy part. To not even let them

(28:28):
know that is that even possible?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I feel like it kind of you know, would have
to or maybe they declined to participate.

Speaker 5 (28:35):
What they're saying, they didn't know about it, so I
mean they didn't. That doesn't sound like a declining as
much as like, I mean.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
What legally, I mean, what obligation does like a production
company have I had? Yeah, I don't think, right, I
mean they can tell the story. It's they can tell
whatever story they want. Yeah, yeah, and it speaks to
the fascination piece.

Speaker 5 (28:58):
You know, that makes you think they probably do it
from the perspective of Brian more so even than the family.
If they didn't even consult the family, they're probably leaning
in that direction.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
I think that's probably your right, Taha, that's probably what
they're going to do. Because whenever there's these you know, shows,
it's typically focused on the killer. And that's long That's
been a long criticism of true crime in general. Right,
it often focuses on the killer and rather than you know,
uplifting and talking about the victims.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's so true, and leaving them as a footnote.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
And that's why again there are differences when family members
want to participate, and it's often the reason that they
want the story told is that they want their family member,
their loved one, to be remembered for who they wear their.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Entire lives versus this one the moment, darkest moment, right, And.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
I think also, you know, you guys were talking about
the fascination, because it isn't there's nothing settled, there's nothing closed,
it's four lives.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
It's just it's horrible.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
So of course that's the holidays, was it po I
don't know. I mean, I think that's part of it
because I was in an old tale after the other.
I don't know what all there is a fascination though, Yeah,
I mean I don't know what the answer.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
I don't think any answer is going to be satisfying. Yeah, right,
I just don't listen. We've covered the Epstein stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Now, going to talk a little bit about this pop
star David and some new developments there as well, and
also later in the show. Make sure you stay with
us because Shade Robinson's mother is here again. She's joining
back with us. She anda Scarborough to talk about the
great work she's doing on her daughter's behalf and give
us some updates on the case as well. So more

(30:35):
on that to come. But first up, body, let's discuss
if it's give me you know.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
Where do you want Simmons. Yeah, So this case was
brought to us by Michael Bryant. Right, He's been reporting
on this for a while. He's remarkable, by the way,
if you need any information, he's just such a trove
of information and you can find him at just as
served on YouTube. So Kelly Fitsimmons, she is the Massachusetts

(31:00):
a police officer. So this happened in North Andover, Massachusetts.
A police officer became a suspect. Right when fellow officers
arrived to serve Kelsey Fitzsimmons with the restraining order from
her fiance, the situation exploded. This is just a little
background history. Moments later, she was shot in the chest
by one of her own so prosecutors said they she

(31:23):
tried to fire on police, and she insists that she
was suicidal, not violent. She insists she was pointing a
gun at herself, not the police officer, but the police
officer says otherwise. And by the way, there's no body cams. Okay,
So that's keep that in mind. Number one problem number one.
So now she's charged with assault by means of a

(31:44):
dangerous weapon. Her badge has been suspended and her freedom
stripped away from her after a judge ruled she violated
bail not because she drank, but because her injuries made
it impossible to blow into a breath monitor. So here's
what happened. Her fiance wanted to get a restraining order.
It was granted. The police went to go serve it,

(32:06):
and Kelsey Fitzsimmons said, okay, let me pack a bag
because she needed to pack a bag and get the baby.
You know, she just had a baby ready to get
transferred to his father, and she's doing all this and
she said she was going to grab the gun and
kill herself, but the UH cop said that she pointed

(32:31):
the gun at him. He shot her in the chest.
She spent many days, many many many days in the hospital,
I think fifty something days in the hospital, gets released
and goes right to jail, and while she's in jail,
they she gets out on bail, but she has to
blow into this like breathalyzer test because she had some
alcohol problems and she can't because of she got shot

(32:54):
in the chest, because her breathing has been costed medical speaking, correct,
correct now. They gave her nine tests this blow thing.
She passed eight of them, but not the ninth one, like,
couldn't it's too painful. The blood alcohol level was not triggered.
She physically could not blow into the device that would

(33:14):
check her blood level.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Understand And when Michael Bryant was explaining this, I really
I'm like my eyre rises thinking about this judge who
seems unconscionable when you know, medical experts have said, you know,
she had a chest and she was shot in the chest.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
She can't blow this thing physically, right, So they were
going there for like a routine hearing and then yeah,
he just like the judge rights.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
So there was this emergency petition for appeal on this
decision to put her back in jail because they're trying
to come up with alternate solutions for her to do
these tests, and today it was denied. That is what
they said.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
She's They said she's too much of a danger. And
how is the connection is there is I'm remembering this incorrectly.
There was a connection to Karen Reid's.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Story, don't I don't know if there's a connection specifically
to Karen Reid. It's just in the same area.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Just the location itself is in the same locations.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
The connection, right, because I know he was here in
like a Massachusetts night and he was yeah, Michael, Michael,
and where Michael Proctor or any of those police officers
anywhere involved in this.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
There was no crossover, not.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
That I know of, but it's worth looking at to
see because I saw a tweet today actually that said
Kelsey Fitzsimmons is the new Karen Reid.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
So maybe there is something there that I'm just not sure. Yeah,
I think that's might be what it is.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, people in that area are just traumatized, I think
because this was in North Andover. Yeah, North Andover, that's right.
And so you know, she's she's back in jail. She's
still in jail, and she's going to remain there until
they figure out what to do. The judges orders it

(35:03):
says this the judge did not commit an error of
law or otherwise abuse for discretion. Accordingly, it is ordered
that the petition be and the same hereby is denied
without a hearing. So the argument here is that the
judge is being extra hard on her given that the
person shot at was one of them and law enforcement.

Speaker 10 (35:26):
But so was she.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
But it's my interview that's true. That's a good point, So.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Why are we turning on So that kind of diffuses
that theory in my opinion. They both were both law
enforcement and by the way, they were both buds. You know,
there was that backstory.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
They had this very prolific case that was very tragic
involving a child's death if I'm remembering correctly, and you
know they were.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
They were buds. They were buds because they were in
a cup car together all day. You've seen the movie.
You know, you get you develop a real partnership. So
this is a tough spot for both of them. And
what a standoff because it seems as though they had
a strong relationship prior to this incident.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Mm hmm. So they're trying to come out. Her attorney's
trying to determine if there's other mechanics that she can
do to you know, complete these tests for the judge.

Speaker 9 (36:17):
I guess she has.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
I guess she has to do them. If they release
her on bail. She has to do these tests like
once a day, and she's willing to do them again.
She passed eight out of nine and she's been in
jail for I think a month. She might have healed
more now, she might be able to do nine. She might,
you know what I mean, Like she every day she
heals a little bit more, right. I just think it's

(36:40):
crazy that she's in jail because she has basically a
disability at the moment. That's why she's in jail.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Based on the crime that she's being associated with that's
putting her in jail in the first place. And just
for the correction too, just like to make sure we're
you know, she didn't fail the night. She just couldn't
take the night well.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
She it was an incomplete reading, right, so the end
that that's all I know. It's an incomplete reading. So
I don't know if she ran out of breath or
it was too painful to complete, or you know whatnot,
but it was an.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Incomplete reading with a collapsed lung.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
That I think. That's my I'm surprised she could do eight. Yeah,
you know, so there it's really got people a little
hot under the collar. You know that this is you know,
probably a you know, I'm going to say a war
on women in some sense, because you know, she's obviously
was struggling with postpartum depression. She was feeling suicidal. Now,

(37:32):
it wasn't the smartest thing to do to grab a
gun in front of a cop, though, let's be real.
I mean that's not the smartest thing to do.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
No, that's absolutely very inappropriate thing to do.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Yeah, but I mean she obviously just wasn't in her
right mind, right, she just wasn't in her right and
I don't think she pulled the trigger. I think she
was going to on herself. And of course the cop responded,
you know, if he thought his life was in danger, right,
he responded appropriately. So well, yeah, complicated the update there,

(38:02):
it's hard to be it is it is. I'm sure
it is, you know, I don't know. So, Yeah, she's
lost her bade, she's in jail. Obviously, her the baby
is with the father, the man she was you know
with that was going to beginning us restraining order. But yeah,
that's where it's at. Sad.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Well, this is true crime.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
Tonight, we are on iHeartRadio and we've been talking about
Kelsey Fitzsimmons. We will continue to update you on that
case as it unfolds, and give us a call. We
would love to hear from you eight at eight to
three one Crime. And speaking of hearing from.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
You, we have a talk back.

Speaker 9 (38:41):
Hi, guys.

Speaker 10 (38:42):
I just love listening to you all. Every single day.

Speaker 9 (38:45):
I listen to you guys while I work out, while
I'm commuting just as much as I can, and I
missed whenever I don't get to listen.

Speaker 8 (38:52):
But I just want to say I absolutely love body's
adoration for Joseph Scott Morgan and I can go along
with the allegedly allegedly allegedly.

Speaker 11 (39:01):
And true crime and chill merchandise.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
We definitely need a Forensic Daddy shirt and the burnt Fire.

Speaker 10 (39:07):
Thanks guys, good night.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
I love it Forensics Daddy to open a store for
all these these amazing merchandise.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
The vests and the and the daddy.

Speaker 10 (39:21):
Yeah, we didn't need merchandise. We have to one.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
I love the idea of like the three of us
on the T shirt and we're posing like stuff. You're
in the middle and you've got like the blonde feathered
hair Courtney's like, you know, holding a gun with the
side like this, and Joseph and taha as like Charlie,
you know we've all got.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
The feathered Yes, yes, I love it. I love it,
and you too sort of.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yea, I would love it.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Side boo boo.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Yeah, just did a T shirt idea. But it's a
little racy, so that's a lot of I think you
should make shirts T shirts for women. And then on
the top it says stacked night of headlines.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
I don't know how well I could fill it out,
but I love the idea. I wish I was a stack,
but me too, so that Victoria's secrets, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Thank you for the talk.

Speaker 9 (40:32):
Thank you, and I do.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
I adore Joseph Scott Morgan, you're here. He's just so
approachable and he's a professor, so he's like he loves
to teach people. And he doesn't treat me. He treats
me like you know, I'm smart too, And it makes
me feel good, you know what I mean? Like, well, no,
I know, I just I'm just saying he just makes
me feel good.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
He's wonderful. I still I blush.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
I get so uncomfortable with any and I know people
I have seen it myself I have seen women in
droves crushing on him. Oh yeah, I like understand it intellectually,
but I'm he's.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Like a brother, right, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, I know, I guys, I feel makes me say.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Can I say when I say forensics daddy, it's not sexual,
it's like a admiration. It's like an admiration thing. Yeah,
I mean, I call brian Eton news daddy. It's not
sexual napacity.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
By the way, When I first met Joseph and Courtney
as my witness, it was a phone call. I forgetting
what the circumstance was, why we were connected, but it
was going to be like a twenty minute call and
we were perfect strangers. And I like cleared two hours
from that point forward. I like cleared my schedule because
he was so interesting. He's this person. He was talking

(41:45):
about bone inhalation and some of the darkest, wildest things
and edge of my seat and he's so comforting as
he talks about very important sacred forensics things. And I
hook line and sinker, are you you know, can you
sit down for an interview tomorrow? And so it began.

(42:07):
He was on our dog Murdered and missing in Montana.
We featured him in like pretty much instantly.

Speaker 10 (42:12):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, and he was such a source and he's been
on everything ever since.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
But Stephanie does not exaggerate. Literally, she hung up that
phone call. She then picked up and called and said,
I just met the most interesting man in the world,
and then she went off on the bone inhalation.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
I remember it very specifically. And here we are many
years later. There are years and years and years later.
So yeah, he's become family. His wife is like family.
But yeah, we just can't say enough about him. Frankly,
and we have another talk back. Maybe it's Joseph High team.

Speaker 7 (42:47):
This is Alicia from Anna by way of the Bronx.
I finally build up the nerve to do a talk
back and get out of the DM. But I just
want to say I love your entirely and I just
want to put a bug in everyone's air live tour
and if you ever consider, I need you guys to

(43:10):
come to Atlanta first. And I called Jibs on first row.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
What a great voice.

Speaker 10 (43:20):
I love.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
I love Atlanta. Hot Atlanta. Here we come, face hot
Land me some I want some. I want some Southern food.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Yeah, yes, we're coming. I would love that.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
And congrats on sliding out of the d MS. I
think it was like the second show we ever did,
and I really don't do social media at all, and
I made some weird joke. I'm like, oh, slide into
my GMS. It'll be so sexy. I didn't even know
what I was talking about. So I'm so happy you
slid out of them and into the talk.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
I'd love to come to Atlanta Voice too, So yeah,
I guess it does take some hurrige to leave a
talk but it's like, remember how we're nervous.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
We were like, oh my god, we're going to be live,
so nervous it's daunting to leave a talk back, I
can imagine.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
But she sounded great. It was wonderful, and you could.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
I think we record them too. I don't know. This
is when I get like I should stay out of
the convo. But I'm told from Adam and Sam with
such great confidence that you can just you know, what
can we do?

Speaker 3 (44:28):
They can they can listen to it, and they can
listen to record. If they don't like it, everybody thinks
they sound terrible, and they don't. Everybody does, like I
cannot even listen to myself, like it's of course neither
can I. I A'll never come to work the next day.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Well, it's also because none of us humans.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
We don't hear ourselves because of the way our you know,
our ears are, we do not when we actually hear
what our voice sounds like.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
It's completely foreign to what our voice sounds like to us.
Right that, Well, listen if you've missed any of the
first hour, no stress at all, because you could always
catch us as a podcast soon after. But listen, we're
going to come right back because we have more talkbacks
to get to. I might add David the pop star,

(45:13):
and then we have Shade Robinson's mom with us, so
that and much more, stay with us. Welcome back to
true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been talking true crime

(45:33):
all the time. Like I said earlier, if you missed
any of the first hour, please check us out as
a podcast. Were so appreciating you downloading the iHeartRadio app
and either catching it as a podcast or leave it
as a talkback. We have several coming up, I'm told,
and also to go back to our last one. I
don't know, ladies, what do you think the live tour?

(45:54):
I don't know what that totally entails.

Speaker 4 (45:56):
But well, I say, it would be such a joy
and a pleasure to meet the people we are hearing from,
because everyone truly has been awesome, so smart and like
supportive and giving us more information if we're wondering out
loud and helping shape the show. So that part would

(46:16):
be awesome. I'm going to Atlanta as well, would be great.
I need some Atlanta grits.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I have had a bad time in Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
I've always had fun and I've only been our twice,
but it was I went to Savannah. Savannah's amazing to Savannah.
Savena's really cool. It's like kind of like a college town,
a little bit fun. But I was in college when
I went there. But maybe we can meet some people
at crime con if we got a crime con Savannah.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, one of the open table conversation. Yeah, I'm into it.
So what a nice talk back. Thank you for thank
you for frank, you for the kind words, and thank
you for listening. We have another talkback right now.

Speaker 11 (46:52):
Hello, it's Aliah and BC. I was just listening to
talk back tuesdam all in the day behind. But you
were mentioning maybe cleft got into the trunk herself but
wasn't she in a bag and wasn't she missing a head?
So I don't believe she would have gotten into a
bag into the trunk without her head by herself. Did

(47:15):
I miss something?

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Thanks guys, By the way, thank goodness you leave the talkbacks,
because you see how this could be read without the intonation,
it wouldn't totally the same way. What are they talking about?
I'm obsessed by the way. So wait, so is the
question like maybe that we and we said that maybe
she got into the car. I think that was probably
me saying it facetiously, like what you think she got

(47:39):
in the car on her own and put herself in
a bag and in the trunk. But that just goes
to show sometimes you know, it doesn't land as intended.
So thank goodness you left this talkback, and you're right
totally agree, knowing she denies that she got into the
front on her own.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Or put herself in the bag. In fact, to me,
it would suggest foul play.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
And I guess that's why we're so obsessed with answers
in this case as well. Why are we not getting
answers because.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
We're still they still don't know how she died. I
mean this is what I'm thinking. They don't know how
she died. They're hoping Talx is going to tell them,
and from there they're going to be able to determine
what kind of charges can be brought, if any, right,
if any?

Speaker 1 (48:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
This has seeming like it's dragging. I feel like I
say the same thing like a broken record. It's been
a month in like crickets, it's been like five weeks.
So apparently the homeowner is also getting a little frustrated.
So the home again, David, he was renting this.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Home, right, twenty thousand dollars a month, right, twenty thousand
dollars a month. Well, he has hired a private investigator
to look into this, and his name is Steve Fisher,
the private investigator. And I know Steve Fishner. I'm Fisher.
I know him, and you know I have followed him
since Kylie Rodney's case. He worked on that.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
He's done a lot of Rodney's case. I'm spacing.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Kylie Rodney was a girl that went missing. He specializes
in missing persons. Okay, so this is a specialty. And
by the way, he's found like thirty nine people. What
sense I mean, He's He's a phenomenal private investigator. He's
kind of controversial, but I think that's kind of why
I like him, you know, like why I get along
with him. He was controversial because like he just tells

(49:26):
you how it is, and even if you don't want
to hear it, he tells you how it is. You know,
any who he's found Since twenty twenty three, he's found
like thirty nine people. So he specializes in missing persons.
And Kylie Rodney was a girl who went to a
party and went missing and they found her her car
in a lake and she was in the car and

(49:46):
there was so in his drone footage was like, really,
you know, important in finding her in any event. He
specializes in private I'm sorry, in missing persons, which I
think is really an interesting approach to this. So Steve,
if you're listening, I'm wondering, is your approach going to
be victimology in this case? Because guess what Celeste was missing?

Speaker 9 (50:10):
Right?

Speaker 3 (50:10):
So is he going to take the approach of digging
into Celeste right, not in a bad way, not in
a you know, she did something wrong way, angel, but
like trying to figure out how she ended up in
that trunk? By doing some kind of assessment on how
she went missing, because, like I said, that's his specialty
is missing persons now, So I'm just wondering the angle.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
I just would assume though, hearing that the homeowner where
David was renting for twenty thousand dollars a month prior
to leaving for poor and remember after his departure, Celeste
was found in the front of his car, wouldn't that
that suggests that the law that the landlord isn't feeling
very confident with the investigation, and that it's moving forward

(50:54):
in a manner that's appropriate if you're going to bring
in your own resources as a land lord, not an
uncle own landlord.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Why well, I mean, he knows probably just as much
as we do, right, Honestly, he probably knows just as
much as we do. And you know, he's got this
beautiful home that he probably wants to rent out again.
But if somebody was killed in there, you know he
needs to know this, right.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Oh my goodness, I never even cur that never even
occurred to me.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Rent Maybe massive assumptions right now, like this is a
total assumption. I have zero inside knowledge, I promise, Like
if I did, I would spill it. No, of course,
but I'm assuming that you know, it has something to
do with was this girl murdered on his property? He
wants to know. I mean, that's not getting answers, right.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
That's logical.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Again, we don't know anything as fact, but that certainly
makes logical sense.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yeah, right, because we don't just know if David is
actually still residing in that location.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
He's not as far as we know. Remember we saw
we reported got a few weeks ago. I think that
there were moovers moving things out of the home, so
he might want to like re rent this house, you know,
and I might need to know what did they find
in the dreams? You know?

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Would you live a house? Would you move into a
house that there was some sort of death or murder
that happened in it, even if it was a long
time ago, and it was, you know, a long time ago.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
I don't think I would. I don't know. I don't
I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think
I could.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
I don't believe I could either.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
I know.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
In some states question it is a very good question.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
In some states you have to disclose that also hauntings
you have to disclose in some states.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Well, and speaking of which, by the way, we are
going to do haunting for Halloween, but I have we
have a couple of haunting stories that will haunt you
start accord.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Means anything I did, but people say they have. We'll
get to that Halloween week maybe. But back to this, Yeah,
I don't know that I could either, But yes, I
do think a realtor would have to disclose that information
if you were about to rent a place. But what
a bummer, if you know. I mean, yeah, I'm hoping.
I'm wishing Steve Fisher the best of luck in this case.

(53:23):
I think he's going to I've never known him to
work on a homicide case. Well, we don't know if
it's I've never known him to work on this kind
of case. Like I said, he specializes in missing persons,
and he's found anybody lives in the area, and he's
been following this from day one, So this is a
new I think this is going to be a fresh
perspective and hopefully he will find some answers.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Wow, it sounds like it's track record's amazing. So there
is another one that will obviously keep you updated on.
So this is true crime Tonight. And we have been
talking about Celeste Rebus and the fact that private investigator
has been brought into the case. We'll see what comes
to bear with that. We would love to hear from
you eighty eight three to one crime slide out of

(54:09):
our DMS and slide into our talk backs.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
So just give us a call in your sexy slid it. No,
I get up to bears thinking about the DIMS DMS.
I have other news.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
Amy Bradley's brother, his name is Brad. He is the
brother of Amy Bradley, who vanished mysteriously from the Caribbean
cruise ship in nineteen ninety eight. You guys may recall
that there was a lot of attention from a recent
Netflix docu series on Amy Bradley's missing, So that's what

(54:43):
we're talking about. And Brad and the rest of the
family have been looking for her since nineteen ninety eight,
so for decades. He has publicly expressed skepticism as well
as frustration because of recent leads that were reported in
her disappear in case, Brad is stating that the family

(55:03):
is unaware of their origins or validity, and this is
something that we spoke about last night.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
It was widely. Yeah, but it was very widely put out.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
It was an it was a People magazine, it was
the Hollywood Reporter, among many many outlets.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
So here is what brad has said.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
Again, he doesn't verify the new leads that were first
reported by the Hollywood Reporter. He says he is unsure
who provided the information to the media, and he said
that he spoke with the reporter who dropped that article
and said that I, myself and my family are all
unaware with a source for that information that was provided

(55:47):
to him.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
He goes on.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
He continued he denied any knowledge of the bartender, which
again we spoke about this last night. Brad Bradley has
no knowledge of the bartender who allegedly was a new
source and who shouted send you Reita kidnapped. And he's
saying that neither his family nor the investigator know who
this woman is. He also wishes that certain details, such

(56:14):
as the fact that IP addresses IP address activity tied
to Amy's missing person website had not been made public
as it complicates the family's efforts.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Although I have a question that that.

Speaker 10 (56:29):
Was my question.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
That's a a documentary and I.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Might be misremembering.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
I feel like brad might have been one to speak
about it of tracking the ips.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Right, that it was like happening. I believe during the
holidays every year.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
That's correct, That's right. I remember it that way as well.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Interesting, well, you know, so we did. Okay, I have
a lot to say about this. I'm kind of stumbling
over my words. I'm trying to say this is in
the nicest way possible. I don't know that the family
would be aware of every single tip that comes in,
and they're not running the tip line, right, this is
law enforcement, I would imagine. So I don't know that

(57:12):
the family, and again with all due respect, would be
familiar with every tip now unless unless they are running
the tip line, which I don't recommend, but unless they
are a way, I don't think that's I legally, you're
not even a project cold case, So I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
I'm not sure. Even the tip line has to be vetted.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
That has to go directly to law enforcement, and it's
their decision on how to feed out some of the noise.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Perhaps because you could imagine tip lines do get lots
of all over the place things.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Well, uh, the family of Amy Bradley does run a
tip line, and they also have an official page for
tips and updates.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Yeah, and that often can happen. But if like an
official like on her official missing person's poster is not
going to be the family's tip.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Line, right, that's the FBI, and they as well have
it online portal.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Right, So I mean, nobody's cleared in this, right, like,
I mean, you don't. The FBI doesn't know who did this,
So they're not going to be running things in every
in every instance, in every I mean, I'm sure they
do run things by the family, of course, oh my gosh,
sweet family, right, but I don't know that they would

(58:28):
run everything through them.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
I don't know. Well, they can't. It's an open investigation, right,
so yeah, like they you Unfortunately, I think that's a
tough spot, even in anti members of victims, because you
want answers, and law enforcement, frankly, for the spirit and
sacredness of the investigation often have to keep, you know,
very important details close to the vest because if you

(58:50):
say them publicly, the tip line might you know, mimic
that of course, think about it.

Speaker 9 (58:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Again, we are working with a tip line right now
in a separate project, and it's really interesting to kind
of think that through like what are the legal ramifications,
who answers the tip line, how is that responded to?
And in our case, it would have to run through
law enforcement.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Right right?

Speaker 9 (59:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
I just think it's interesting that so they're saying they
have no knowledge of these.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
New correct and Amy Bradley's brother, Brad goes on to
emphasize the family's lack of involvement in these new leads
and that they really desire for credible information to guide
the ongoing search. Sure but here, which of course he
would Another thing is that Brad dismisses any speculation that

(59:37):
Amy has a child, and he clarified that previous claims
have been investigated and rolled out, which that also watching
the documentary, which of course Bread was prominent in. That
was in the documentary at least the woman who said
she did not say for a certaintude.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Well, and I would say, you know, he dismissed the
speculation that Amy has a child, and I would say, well,
how do you know? But I mean, you don't know.
You don't know where she's at, and you haven't talked
to her, You have no idea, what's what our status is?
You know, you don't know, but but I'm imagining that
every lead that has come in that they've investigated about
her having a child hasn't panned out. That doesn't mean.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Yes, I see the distinction you're making, and I think
you're exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
So I hope you'll find her. I know, I just
want her to be found. Honestly, I thought that documentary
was really good and captivating. It was really brought her
back to life in so many ways. So whether she
has a baby or doesn't like, who cares? As long
as she's alive. I mean, this family for thirty years,

(01:00:44):
God blessing for her?

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Is that how long it's been?

Speaker 8 (01:00:47):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
My goodness?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Just about yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Listen, coming up where really honored that Sina Scarborough is
going to be joining us and she's going to give
us some updates on her daughter, shot A Robinson's case
as well ascussing her work at Shada Shaday's Voice Foundation.
Keep it here at True Crime Tonight, we are talking
true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of
course with my girls, Courtney Armstrong and Body move in
and we are so happy to have Sheena Scarborough back
with us. Sena. First off, welcome back to the show.
We're so glad that you're here. We even get to

(01:01:38):
see you this time, which is so incredibly exciting. Listen,
we wish under better circumstances, obviously if you've been listening along.
Shada Robinson is Sheena's daughter. Her life was taken incredibly
tragically and you know, the details will kind of we'll
get to, but I will say this, just even just

(01:01:59):
seeing your face last time you were on, it was
just audio, and it is sometimes the humans that carry
the most on their shoulders, you know, even in the
thick of grief and the thick of moving through arguably
the most unimaginable scenario losing your daughter in the way period,

(01:02:21):
losing your daughter period the end. And your smile is
so huge. Your smile really it shined through even when
we heard you the first time and the last time
you were here, it really did, like we all felt it.
And now seeing you you are, even right behind you,
is like a shining light. It is wild. So we

(01:02:42):
have to assume that you know, shade is shining upon
you and you were a light in a dark in
a dark place. So thank you for joining us and
giving us an update and so many important things that
you're doing. So we love you.

Speaker 8 (01:02:59):
Welcome, welcome you guys to hey, hey gang gang, let
me get who got Courtney Courtney, Stephanie.

Speaker 9 (01:03:13):
And and of course you know.

Speaker 10 (01:03:18):
Down here as well, and that's Sam.

Speaker 9 (01:03:21):
Okay, Sam's helping me because I couldn't get the deep connected.
But it's so nice to be with you, to be
with you guys again. Yeah, it's been a very you know,
the past couple of weeks have been very you know,
grief when you're dealing with grief, and this goes for
all other crime bates and families that can relate to
you know, losing a loved one, you know, even losing

(01:03:44):
a loved one rather it may be a parent, it
could be a sibling, you know, or you know, a
spouse or loved one, but a child, you know, our
children are not supposed to go before us, you know,
like that's just the way it. You know, I was
raised like the system. So it's very it's been very

(01:04:05):
challenging the past couple of weeks. I've been moment so
consistently the past eighteen months. It will be nineteen months
on November the first, and I haven't really had time
to fitch still and grieve, to be honest. So I've finally,
like the past couple of weeks, I've kind of had
a moment to just cry and take things in.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Which you need.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
But you've also have been so busy moving forward in
so many actual ways, and of course also in raising
your other beautiful, scholar.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Brilliant daughter. You know that goes every day.

Speaker 10 (01:04:46):
If anyone is so break it, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
I was going to say, if anyone is happening to
be joining us.

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
Now we're here with Sheena Scarborough and her daughter, of course,
is the beautiful shouting Robinson, and they're out of Milwaukee.
And Shade was killed, uh in a case that ended
with let's just call him the suspect. I know you
have other words for him, some of them I can't say.

(01:05:15):
I'm not allowed to say what my word for him is.
But it ended with this man sentenced to life in
prison and through all.

Speaker 10 (01:05:23):
Of this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Demon, Yeah, go ahead, demon, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 9 (01:05:30):
And I can't I don't refer to that individual by
name that you know, that type of behavior and you
know that's a demon. We have demons walking on ours
in the physical form, physical and spiritual, but this is
one of the highest levels of demonic energy I've ever
seen in my life. It's been challenging, you know. Again,

(01:05:52):
I just have another daughter, she's a senior this year.
To any other parents that are out there and got SoRs,
this weekend was fulfilled with fasces, a CCS profile I've
never done before.

Speaker 10 (01:06:03):
I'm like, what the heck is going on?

Speaker 9 (01:06:06):
So, like, you know, I'm making sure I'm present for her,
and I've been feeling a bit. You know, I'm not
going to say guilty, but I know some other crime
parents probably can relate. But sometimes when we're so indulged
in are getting justice for our child, be laws and
we're dealing with degreees, Like I'm just going so.

Speaker 10 (01:06:24):
Hard and not stop.

Speaker 9 (01:06:26):
And you know, she's co parented, she's between me and
her dad, so you know, you're dealing my co parenting
and things like that. And she's about to be eighteen
on Monday. She'll be eighteen on Monday. So I'm so
amazingly proud of her. You guys, she's just phenomenal. But
you know, as these are one of the things I
do want to make sure I'm bringing awareness too through

(01:06:48):
the foundation is for the other crime victim moms or
parents that are kind of walking through this with me,
to make sure that we are not forgetting our other children.
So that's a high light of things I want to
do with the foundation. Just make sure the siblings and
children of the crime victims are not being left behind,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Now, you just like rip my heart out. Even as
you say that, I'm covered in chills. It's something that
you don't really think about until you're in You're in it, right,
and you you so eloquently speak about grief. Yeah, like
there's adrenaline. You've been fighting and fighting for justice that
takes a level of like stamina, and regardless of circumstance,

(01:07:30):
at some point you sit down and it has to
kind of flush through. And it's so incredibly relatable And
where anybody who's hearing my voice right now is sending
you so much love. I know it, and I hope
you feel it because you are a trailblazer and your
daughter I don't.

Speaker 9 (01:07:48):
Mean like thank you guys, but I don't we don't
walk like that. Me and my daughter's like even adrianas
she's like walking around a four point eight going to
be the valedictorian to make at Golden and we don't
walk around like you know, everything she's been through she
will be. I'm just so like I get goosebumps with

(01:08:09):
all the accomplishments and things that she has done, you know,
through grief as a sibling again of a crime victim.
I do want to you know, I don't want to
go to deeep, but I know there's a lot of
things just being aware, like with the grief, because like
this is eighteen months later tomorrow we have the restitution trial. Okay,

(01:08:33):
this is very emotional for me.

Speaker 10 (01:08:35):
Another trigger that I've been going through.

Speaker 9 (01:08:37):
Is even going through items for restitution okay, and then
I have a crime victoms advocate in different levels and
then there's no value or price for my child. How
dare you her vehicles worth over this amount, all the
items in it. She had designer back, she had designer this,
she had her laptops, she had just got a brand

(01:08:58):
new iPad. She kept all her stuff in or vehicle
for school, Like you have to go through these are
just materialistic things. I'm not a materialistic person, but it's
the principle. Not only that the wages, me and my
we all worked my youngest starter. In myself, I've I'm
dealing with a lot of different health factors physically and mentally.

(01:09:20):
I can't starting to work like I used to, So,
you know, I am working through some new disabilities that
I did not have prior to.

Speaker 10 (01:09:28):
So, like all of these things, your life is kind.

Speaker 9 (01:09:30):
Of put off track.

Speaker 10 (01:09:32):
I you know, I had goals. I was in graduate school.

Speaker 9 (01:09:34):
I would have been an LPC by now as a
professional counselors. So like when you're doing restitutions, like what.

Speaker 8 (01:09:41):
Does that mean?

Speaker 10 (01:09:43):
And for somebody who's.

Speaker 9 (01:09:44):
Never walked through the criminal justice system, never dnage out,
you know, like I don't deal with the crime system
like this, This is all new to me. Going through
all of those layers is very challenging and emotional.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Got away. Thank god sharing too, because you're right, nobody
knows until you're in it, and until people have you
know the strength and the wherewithal for you to come
even here and share with us. It helps. It helps
so many And I don't know what the answer is.
I wish there was something.

Speaker 9 (01:10:17):
No, yeah, there's there's no handbooks, no there's no handbook
for when you lose your child, especially to a demonic
serial kill. You know, I don't know what you're allowed
to stay on here, but you know, a cereal the
visual and a lifsure child a serial demon killer. Okay,
there's no handbook for how to walk in maneuver this.

(01:10:38):
There's no handbook for anyone dealing with grief period. Greed
comes in many different you know. I've done all the
side ecology background classes, like I can care less about
that book stuff, and so you could go to school
all you want. Well, until you're walking through it and
you're living in it, it's a whole different walk. Even
my therapist, I do therapy once a week and Johanna

(01:10:59):
is twice a month. They are walking through a different maneuver.
They have not had crime, you know, and things are
new for them. My medical doctor things are new for
her treating my plan of character. Like, you know, we
have to take it one day at a time. That's
what I can, you know, put out to the other
crime victims that maybe go in through similar things. Just

(01:11:21):
you know, take it one day, one hour, one step
at a time.

Speaker 10 (01:11:25):
If you're able to.

Speaker 9 (01:11:25):
Wake up, get dressed, you know, it's small things. Am
I able to you know, I'm able to eat? Did
I go to sleep?

Speaker 10 (01:11:34):
These things are challenging.

Speaker 9 (01:11:36):
Trouble sleeping, yeah, I have trouble sleeping many a night.
I was thinking about my daughter.

Speaker 10 (01:11:41):
I have moments.

Speaker 9 (01:11:42):
I'll find pictures, you know, I'll just go through. There's
different stages. And you know, even with my youngest daughter,
you know, she's been a little bit for her to
be so he's very academically gives it. But at the
same time, I do want to encourage all.

Speaker 10 (01:11:56):
Parents to be present with our babies.

Speaker 9 (01:12:00):
And that's again another thing with the one of the
new initiatives, well not new, but initiatives. I'm trying to
get to how do you get through all this trial stuff?

Speaker 10 (01:12:09):
But the foundation is going to be doing self.

Speaker 9 (01:12:11):
Defense safety awareness courses. Shutting self defense safety awareness courses,
so just being able to speak to the young people
in the community. A lot of them are not They
don't teach you these things in school safety dating groups
or locations. You need to have street since you need
to have people, since you can't just walk around with

(01:12:33):
academic books, since you got to have common knowledge, right, sorry,
excuse me, Yeah, but you know the mental We got
to deal with the mental and emotional what our babies
are going through daily. And this, you know, the world
most different now in twenty twenty five raising children.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Yeah, that really is. We've been having some like safety
discussions too, which like by the way, steer us in
the right direction of that as well, because you know, shot,
they lost her life on a first date. It was
a first blind date, FYI for anyone paying attention. So
and then there's so much takeaway that we have to unpack.
It's an injustice beyond measure.

Speaker 10 (01:13:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
And Greece, man, it is that me.

Speaker 9 (01:13:15):
Right so much, even just like mentioning it again, I
still feel like I'm going to awaken nightmare. My daughter
went on the first date and I never was aware
of this individual. She talks to me about everything. So
for the other parents, like we we don't know everything,
especially when your child is a young adult nineteen twenty ace.

Speaker 10 (01:13:37):
You know, they live in.

Speaker 9 (01:13:38):
They're living on their owner in college, Like we don't
know every single step that they're moving and making in
their life. And then I have a lot of guilt
that like that's what Greef, that's the part of dealing
with grief That's one of the steps with greef, you know,
like I've done all the classes, is like several different
eight different levels, but there's no order in which to

(01:14:01):
do it, like you know, and.

Speaker 10 (01:14:02):
How to grief and it comes and goes differently and
by the days.

Speaker 9 (01:14:06):
But one of them is guilt, and I have to
walk through and understand that. You know, I know this
good mom, and I talked to my kids and I.

Speaker 10 (01:14:14):
Was present night. I'm like the strict parents.

Speaker 9 (01:14:16):
The dads are kind of I'm the stricter one, right,
but you have to be.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Very fun either, like, yeah, you're right about that. And
also the idea is to raise smart, functional young women,
which you were doing. So even in that regard nonsense
and you know, to your point, this demon, you know,
wasn't really you can't see that coming. You can't see

(01:14:47):
that coming right until people are talking about it and
shouting it from the rooftops. It's impossible to see coming. Yeah,
and the grief, you know, on.

Speaker 9 (01:14:55):
A random Tuesday and it's just been crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Yeah, go ahead, I have a question.

Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
Can you share with everyone a little bit and we
have just a little bit of time and then we're
coming back after commercial.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
But a little bit about the memorial.

Speaker 10 (01:15:13):
Oh my got you guys. These are the things that
keep me going.

Speaker 9 (01:15:17):
And you know, I'm not able to return to a
corporate job anymore. Like I used to have a lot
of different things, so like everything through the foundation and
carrying on her legacy, these being the most and being
able to bring awareness and help to others.

Speaker 10 (01:15:31):
But the memorial has been a year in the making.

Speaker 9 (01:15:35):
I had went before the Milwaukee County Park Sport just
like several of them, but I had went before them
to you know, present to them tonight do this memorial.
So it's going to be at the Warnermount Park. That
was the location where her first remains were filmed. And

(01:15:55):
you know, this is very emotional already to even go
to that location. It's from a different part of town
that I usually you know, we usually did not visit.

Speaker 10 (01:16:04):
But yeah, she has her trees.

Speaker 9 (01:16:06):
I've been working with the parks people and sincely shouts
out to the Milwaukee County Parks and.

Speaker 10 (01:16:12):
All the individuals in the community.

Speaker 9 (01:16:14):
You have been donating and helping us to get this.
Back in February, we had a lot of racial attacks.
You know, this has been the real just the whole
process has been very to real, you know, going before
the board and wanting to raise the funds on my
own initially, and then it led to you know, them

(01:16:34):
announcing it in the beginning of the year, the budget.
I wasn't even aware. Then here we are in the
news again and it was just a lot of back
and forth the media.

Speaker 4 (01:16:44):
Listen, we're going to finish after commercial. But you got
it done, is the bottom line, and listen, keep it here.
We are going to be talking about Chad's Voice Foundation
after the break throughe Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney
and Body as always and Tahan and the boys. Because
we have like a real hero, one of our favorite,
our favorite humans. Honestly, who's who's kind of in it
at this exact moment. If you know, you don't recall
Shadday Robinson's case. She lost her life on a first

(01:17:31):
date and the trial was a harrowing one. The accused
is now behind bars for life and Sheina Scarborough Mom,
you know, pushes on and pushes on through circumstances that
you know are hard to actually even put words to
you know, I say unimaginable, and you know, frankly, somebody

(01:17:55):
listening right now, it's imagining it because they're living it too.
It's you know, it's it's a real thing. And what
is tomorrow? There's another court restitution and you know here
is you know, Shina pushing through dealing with the legal
system in such a tenuous, scary scenario, a worst nightmare, frankly,

(01:18:21):
while raising a superstar daughter as well, who's also grieving.
So you know, having you hear Shina is just it
checks a lot of boxes because a, you know, you're
a shining light every time you're here, and we all
get affected so deeply, and thank you for sharing, certainly
at it's such a raw time. And it also really

(01:18:42):
helps because you know, grief is one of those things
that's very universal. This is the most heinous, imaginable thing.
And you know somebody listening is probably fighting the same fight,
you know, maybe in a different place, in different circumstances.
So you are a guiding I could say that.

Speaker 9 (01:19:02):
You guys, you know, thank you. I don't feel that
I just moved through spirit. You know, these are I'm
trying to not trying to but like I'm taking this grease. Uh,
this is the logo on my baby's clothing line. Turned
the pain into purpose or you know, power trying the
pains of power. So you know, I'm just wanting this

(01:19:25):
not to happen to any other individuals. It's not about
the you know, the raised you know, these are women,
our young women in general, say, because my my youngest
starter is biracial, these have white like this isn't you know,
these are all of our babies, So I wouldn't be clear,
you know, it just seems to be like there's a

(01:19:47):
more so like the black and brown indigenous women don't
get as much fight attention, you know, And I'm just gonna.

Speaker 10 (01:19:55):
Be real with that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
They don't. They don't. They absolutely do not.

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
And in fact, in Wisconsin where you are, it's egregious. Uh,
the numbers are yeah, literally staggering. Black women there are
twenty times more likely to be murdered than white women.
And so Sheena indeed is turning pain into power, use

(01:20:20):
it through Shade's Voice Foundation, and that is helping to
bring light to missing people.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
And lawmakers have pushed too. I understand law makers have
pushed for a task force.

Speaker 9 (01:20:38):
Yes, representative she looks up in Madison. She has been
very present and with me since the beginning. You know,
she's been working on this missing and Murdered task force
for years. Like I wasn't aware of it. You know,
I've come from the miss Well bag. You know, I'll
stand all example, this wasn't both fabinouses of course front

(01:21:00):
door until it it's your front door then you you know,
that's how a lot of people move. So like it
came to us, so like now I have to be
the voice, uh, not only for my daughter, but for
all of the other missing and murdered and bring awareness
like to their safety. And I would just you know,
really like there's so many other crime vix and moms

(01:21:21):
in the community. One of the areas that we're having
in Milwaukee, it seems, and you know, I'm working to
set up, you know, a meeting with my attorney, with
the chief of police, the mayor and different individuals and
the community, and then I'll be visiting Madison again at
the end of this month. The rep up, the bill
that we are working on is moving over to the

(01:21:42):
State Assembly, and you know that that government stuff, I
don't you know, I just I'm present, but like I
don't know how to details how the stuff moves, but
you know I'm doing I'm working with that to get
some legislation you know, made, and we're also working to
get Shadai's law. These are some of the things that
I've been dealing with in the system as a crime victim.

(01:22:04):
I've been communicating with them intensely about the release information,
certain things, being able to get your own child. I
have not even got the transcript yet. They try to
charge me like over seven hundred dollars a day when
I haven't been worked since April. Yes, literally I have
an email transcript.

Speaker 10 (01:22:25):
Yeah, so with transcript when.

Speaker 9 (01:22:28):
My daughters say, like this is for rell, like over
ten thousand dollars even get my child's transcripts. I'm working
through those like type of layers daily. We've been able
to get records access all of that. So I don't
want these things to haap into other crime victims. They
don't even know how to access crime bxing compensation funds.

(01:22:50):
Every state has a certain amount, like so you know,
to kind of help you get through the process. So
those are again a lot of the things I'm going
to be doing one on one consultation with a lot
of the individuals in the community. But I have to
get through this whole process myself and understand it before
I can be able to help rather individual to the

(01:23:12):
best of my ability.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
You're going to be expert at it, right, Like, after
you go through all this, it's like, you know, no,
how do you prepare for something like this?

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
You don't. And that's you're physically going like you know,
like you speak about you know health, your your mental health,
which of course your physical health. You know, suddenly you
get hit with a million things because like trauma. I mean,
let's be real, it's there's no bigger hit than trauma.
And here you are putting everything first and it is

(01:23:42):
a really hard it's an impossible thing to navigate on
your own.

Speaker 10 (01:23:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Well, of the yeah, one of the cases that you
brought to our attention, I wanted to talk about it.
So Lashikia Hill, she is a This is a case
that she never brought to our attention, and she was
a fort Well, she is a forty six year old woman.
She's from Racine, Wisconsin, and she went missing on March

(01:24:07):
twenty sixth of twenty twenty three, the night before her birthday.
She was last seen entering the home of a man
named Donald Wilson, who, by the way, remains a person
of interest but has not been taken into custody. Despite
ongoing police efforts, she remains missing and her family is
urgently seeking public help to locate her. And just some

(01:24:29):
background facts, right. She disappeared under suspicious circumstances after being
picked up by Donald Wilson from her home on March
twenty six, twenty twenty three. The last person seen with
her is him, and he has not been arrested or
publicly identifies as a suspect beyond his connection to her disappearance.
She was last seen wearing very distinctive white pants and

(01:24:52):
possibly a blonde wig. She was reported missing two days later.
She is a mother of two sons and a grandmother
to three grandchildren who miss her desperately. She would never
voluntarily leave or abandon her family. The police confirmed that
the investigation remains open, but they don't have any leads

(01:25:14):
or any significant developments to report on. It's been two
and a half years and nothing.

Speaker 9 (01:25:20):
Yes, yes, this is a real, this is a real
I mean she is another you know. When I went
to Madison, she was one of the other crime victims
that were highlighted, and also along with you know, Janiah Walker,
there's so many, Like it's just becoming a daily toxic
thing every day and I just appreciate you guys being

(01:25:42):
able to bring awareness to a lot of the stuff
that's going on in Milwaukee. It is becoming like a
safety scary hazard. Like you know, my mission was to
get my kids well disrespect but the hell lot of
this city as when as possible. I wanted them graduate
it and move on, you know, but like it doesn't

(01:26:05):
because like it's just been increasingly crime and there's a
lot of just not there's a lot of gun violence,
there's a lot of hidden runs, there's there's a lot
of other individuals that would like to you know, share
with you guys hopefully in the future, and also through
the Shady's Boys Speaks for Crime podcast. My new mentor

(01:26:27):
family is gonna help.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
We want you to like get a proper massage in
a foot ruby, Like we need to like hamper you
because you know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
You can't fight so hard. You know how you get
on airplane China and they tell you, okay, if the
oxygen masks fall down, you got to make sure to
put it on yourself first and then do your Yeah, honey,
you got to make sure that you're brutled up before
you can start pouring you.

Speaker 9 (01:26:54):
We have to take totally respect it. And I've been
getting told out a lot, and that's one of the things.
I am taking a step back and I am having
to protect my peace.

Speaker 10 (01:27:04):
And this goes for all times.

Speaker 9 (01:27:05):
It seems like if your space or peace and you
have to do your own grievance and you have to,
you can't help. We can't save the whole world. And
I've been working with Adrianna with that as well, because
she my kids move just like me, were over chievers.
We're always talking to other people and you know, looking

(01:27:26):
at my kids, I'm like, damn, they mean they will
versus and Me's what, guys, she dropped one ap class.
I'm so excited light.

Speaker 8 (01:27:39):
Here, like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
Just we just say that right like and I want
that's we're all going to wish you like I don't
know what the load Lightner is when you're in this
storm and man.

Speaker 9 (01:27:57):
Woman, thank you, But the other I didn't want to
take it all for like Lushikia Hill and may see,
I never knew how I never met her. Yeah, And
I just want to make sure that you know.

Speaker 10 (01:28:08):
All of these women through the you know Foundation.

Speaker 9 (01:28:11):
It's not about Shaddy, but I want these This is
what the foundations about. There were resources and tools, Like
when they first went searching for my baby, they were
short of items. They didn't have boats, they didn't have divers.
So shouts out to Bruce's Legacy, one of the nonprofits
out here. They flew up here on their boat. They
came up the volunteer. These are the organizations that I support.

(01:28:35):
The Tupaca Mari Chakor Foundation, Tupac's sisters set Shakur, she
came out here. I got to meet her.

Speaker 10 (01:28:42):
You guys, I didn't know that, I really Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:28:48):
Yeah, his sister came out and met So, like these
organizations support the crime victims family. She's the sibling of
the crime victim this well, of course her brother Tupac,
and so she advocates for the you know, the the
things that I'm doing. We got scholarships for siblings and
children of crime vicsin the Shade Honest Memorial Scholarship. Those

(01:29:08):
are my first two scholarships to the foundation, My first two. Yeah,
I'm putting out the application on the website. You know,
I don't have a big cludget you guys like their
thousand dollarship piece, but definitely we can use you know,
any support with donations to the website, you know, shad
A's voice s A d e s Boys Foundation dot com.

(01:29:32):
You can read there's a donation link and I'll tell
you the things we're doing from the self of what
you know, defense classes. Do you know We're working with
multiple projects in the community. We're gonna be doing art therapy.
Shout out to my new artists. Mullah Mullah Bread is
another artist. He designed my baby plaque for the memorial

(01:29:54):
and it's going to be a community park. The park event,
I'm inviting the community, music, food. You know before it's
too cold out here in Wisconsin, you guys feel it's freezing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:05):
Uh and that so beautiful.

Speaker 10 (01:30:08):
Yeah, thank you guys.

Speaker 9 (01:30:09):
So we're inviting all of the community. I want to
thank all of the community. The artist that everyone that's
pulled up. They have designed the most beautiful artwork. You
guys can freaking imagine like it's it's for real, the
stuff they've done. And the artists I've met but I
would like to honor them. Is welcome to other crime
victim moms. They have organizations and foundations and things going.

(01:30:30):
So that's what you know. The community networking ribbon cutting
for Shade will be in the next coming week. So
we got to tell you everything set up.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
We're gonna we're going to do a post on our
social media of the picture of Hill and we'll make
sure to put a link to Shadi's Voice Foundation in
the caption. Let's if you guys want to go to
our social media, We're going to put a picture of
her and we'll put a link to Shade's Voice Foundation
in the capture so people can click on it. I

(01:31:01):
think that's a good right.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
An open door. We want, you know, we don't want
we have you have a lot going on, but like whenever,
whenever open door because it really does shed so much light.
And you know, I don't know. I wish I had something,
really I wish I had a magic perfect to say,
and truthfully I don't. But I look at you and
I have to say it yet again. We see you

(01:31:24):
in your eyes right now, this one has like a smile.
It is in the moments like this that somehow light
pushes on and you are the most emblematic of that.
So anything we can do to support your cause and
shot Voice Foundation.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
And you're not alone, and you're not alone.

Speaker 9 (01:31:44):
Before I get off, this is what one of my
closest bes friends mate for me.

Speaker 10 (01:31:49):
And that's her voice.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
That's her voice.

Speaker 9 (01:31:59):
Yeah, that's voice in the bear. Oh yeah, my best
friend Shandy shouts out to her. But like I sitting
on the couch like next to me, that's her with me.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
I'm just saying, we love you too, we love you too.
Voice Foundation. We'll post it.

Speaker 8 (01:32:23):
You know, we love you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Anybody who's listening is praying on you and sending you
good vibes for tomorrow. You you are strong, you got
this and we are right there with you emotionally. And
thank you for sharing, thank you for period.

Speaker 4 (01:32:39):
And everyone go to Shada's Voice Foundation dot com. There
is a lot of information everything that's going.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
On, and thank you very much. Good night, have a
great night, everybody, stay safe.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
Bye Bo

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