Talkback Tuesday Covers Bryan Kohberger, Marilyn Monroe’s Suspicious Suicide, Epstein, and More

For our weekly Talkback Tuesday, the team addresses listeners’ messages, from Gypsy Rose, to body farms, to dark tourism. Tune in to hear if your question was answered!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time. It is Tuesday, August twelfth.
It's a very special day. We have a stacked night
of talkbacks.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
It's Talkback Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
We're going to be responding to all of your amazing
talkbacks on Marilyn Monroe, Brian Colberger, and so much more.
Sam and Adam, they're in charge. They're in the control room,
they're working the boards. Why don't we kick off one
right now, let's get moving.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Hi, it's Heather from Wisconsin, just listening to Sunday Night's
episode and the breakdown of where Kaylee was. Was she
actually in bed with Maddie or did she interrupt? My
thought has always been being a dog person, and my
dog would never be sleeping in a different room than
I am. And that's why I've always thought that maybe
can went in and interrupted because Murphy was in her

(01:09):
room and not in bed with the girls. I just
can't imagine that he would be okay being somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, you know, thank you for the talk back, by
the way, And this is like one of probably the
topics I personally like to talk about the most when
it comes to this case is the Kaylee situation. And Dylan,
the surviving roommate, is very insistent in multiple documents throughout
and in fact, she says it multiple times that she

(01:35):
hears Kaylee go up the stairs with Murphy and then
a short time later come back down and say someone's here.
And then ten minutes later or so she hears a
male voice say, you know, don't worry, I'm going to
help you in a menacing way. Now it has to
be Kaylee that says someone's here. And the reason I

(01:56):
say that is because ten or so minutes had passed.
Now it is possible that you know, she's tired, she's disoriented,
she's inebriated, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. She has
like a spatial time problem. But she is insistent that
it is Kaylee that says someone's here. If it is
Kaylee in fact that says someone is here, she was
not in that room. And we know from the photos

(02:18):
that there are blood droplets right inside the bedroom door
of Maddie's room. Maddie's room, right, I think I think that,
you know, and they removed part of the wall right there.
I think Kaylee went into that room.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
Do Yeah, it's a very fair point with regard to
the dog. I mean, having had multiple dogs over the
past twenty plus years, and there is, yeah, one single
night in all of those nights where my dog chose
to sleep with someone else, right, So.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Listen, And there's a lot of different reasons. I mean,
I could I could probably talk about this one subject
for another twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well, you said it from the beginning, I have, and I.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Said that only because my friend Megan pointed out the
photo of Kaylee's bed and it was turned down like
she had been sleeping in it. Well, we learned later that,
you know, we learned just recently that the police officers
actually noted that in their reports, they noted that Kaylee's
bed looked like it had been slept in. But we
also learned from these reports that they took like a

(03:22):
pregame nap okay, So it could have been from that.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
And that's why your argument of that was, I would
always say, oh, in college. I would exactly have a pregame,
you know, take a little I'm.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Going to get ready because I'm going to be up late.
I know I'm going to be drinking. I know I
need to be ready to go right. Well, then the
fial target scan was or the faral scan was done
by the FBI on Halloween of twenty twenty three, and
we got new press photos looking into the house and
we can see the wall that was removed right next

(03:54):
to Maddie's desk, and I'm like, why would that wall
be removed? That is so far away for any arterial spray,
you know, that is just a really far And I
was like, Kaylee came into that room and she was
attacked at that door. And also in the photos we
see blood droplets on the outside of the door. How

(04:15):
did those droplets get there? I think I think Kaylee. Listen,
I think she came in. I'm okay to be wrong
on this. I know that the official narrative from everybody
is that Kaylee was under the covers, she was in
the bed, and I will agree that she was attacked
in bed, because there's splatter on the wall that I
think comes from like her mouth or her nose when

(04:37):
she sits up. But I think that she was initially
not in that bed. I think she's in my story,
you guys, Kaylee is a hero, So please don't think
I'm saying in my story she hears her friend something's
going on and she goes into that room. She is
a hero, right, And I don't know that we're ever
going to know, But I don't think Kaylee was in

(04:57):
the bed initially.

Speaker 5 (04:58):
I think the talk Yeah, seriously, thank you if you
are just joining us, this, of course is true true
crime tonight, give us a talkback and let me know
how to say the name of this show. I am
Courtney Armstrong and I am so lucky to be here
tonight as always with Stephanie Lydecker, who heads up KAT
Studios and the brains behind multitudes of documentaries and podcasts.

(05:27):
And also my buddy Body Movin, who is data analyst
extraordinaire and also the star of do not f with
Kats and you should not f with her? So tonight's
talkback Tuesday, we want to hear from you. It's all
you tonight, So give us a call and join this conversation.
Eighty eight eight three one Crime and if you guys

(05:47):
are up for it, I think we go right back
into another.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Do we get some talkbacks going?

Speaker 6 (05:52):
Just something real quick about the Epstein files. The FBI
goes on the stand for the grand jury, they review
all the evidence with the judge, and that is what
the judge is saying, is that there is no new
evidence in the grand jury testimony. It all was in
the Maxwell trial. Thanks so much, have a great day.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
She's right, that's what they said, you know, that's that's
what they said.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
That the judge said that in reviewing the test the
transcripts know it shed no new light.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
I get it.

Speaker 7 (06:24):
So if that's the case, please share it. By the way,
that was an excellent talkback, and what a beautiful voice.
Yet again, she had a great voice, So thank you
for that.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
I agree.

Speaker 7 (06:35):
I know that's what the judge said. I just don't
think it's appropriate or for.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Fair still, like, how could that still fly?

Speaker 5 (06:43):
And Stephanie and I are going to agree to disagree.
I respect, you know, the grand jury and keeping it sealed.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
So why because when I'm testifying in front of the
grand jury, I know that I'm protected. I know that
as a witness, I'm protected and my words are only
for these, you know, twenty three people in the brand jury.
I know that, and I think that's important to our process.

Speaker 7 (07:14):
But then if the President of the United States says
that we are in fact going to have information released
from said grand jury that could be redacted and any
key information that protects whoever is speaking, says that's going
to happen, and it doesn't, how is that okay?

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Because maybe the judge knows Trump is, you know, full
of crap. And you know, I almost said the s word,
Oh my god, Adam, was my goodness?

Speaker 7 (07:40):
You should all the men in our world just stood up.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
But no, what I mean? But in reality, maybe the
judge is Colin is bluff. I don't know. The judge
knows that they have the files if they want to
release it. The ken I don't know.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
That is exactly right. And also you at their.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Point, So don't play the don't play the judicial brands
here right now, I.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
See what you're saying.

Speaker 7 (08:04):
So just for clarity, you're saying the grand jury is
so sacred that therefore what's behind closed doors and a
grand jury should remain secretive. However, Trump was saying that
the list in other air quotes, files or tape or
all the things that surround this case, whether it's you know,
Epstein or Gilainne Maxwell, that those should be released and

(08:28):
the grand jury information should remain sacred because there are
two separate entities. Correct, Okay, I get that, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (08:35):
And earlier, Stephanie, you had asked why is it important
to me specifically? And yeah, it is. It is the
sanctity of our judicial system.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
And that's it. Are you community right now?

Speaker 7 (08:46):
I love it?

Speaker 8 (08:46):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
Courtney Armstrong had both hands in the air.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I love Judge Judy, God, I love I.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
Love you know.

Speaker 7 (08:55):
I saw her once on the street not that long ago,
I barely I almost jumped out of my car.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
And I was like, Judge Judy.

Speaker 7 (09:02):
I started screaming at her and she waved and I
loved it. Yes, she's the tiniest, cutest, perfect little human.
And I feel as though we made eye contact and
she gave me like a really earnest, honest wave and
I we love you, Judge Judy.

Speaker 8 (09:18):
We do.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
If you're listening, Judge Judy, we are a big favor.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
If you're listening, give us a call eighty to eighty three, one.

Speaker 7 (09:23):
Crime Way in let us know what you think about this,
you know, I know what she would say about this.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I just think that the judge is just like, you're
not going to play this system. This is the judicial branch.
You're in the executive branch. Release it.

Speaker 7 (09:36):
Even though I didn't see it that way, but now
that crystallizes it.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think he's playing I think the judge might think that,
you know, Trump's playing games or not necessarily Trump, but
the at the administration. I don't mean Trump personally. Oh yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Well, good talkback, Yeah, very good talk back.

Speaker 7 (09:53):
We get another? Can we get another? Sam and Adam?

Speaker 9 (09:56):
Hey, lady Stephanie from Ohio. I just wanted to ask
that do you think that the Trump administration made a
show of asking for the grand jury transcripts knowing that
it would be, to my guide as a way to
show like they are asking for the transparency?

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yes, yes, in our heads, right, I know that's free.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Did you did you make that happen at all?

Speaker 10 (10:17):
Did you?

Speaker 7 (10:18):
That is really great, By the way, everybody has such
nice voices, Stephanie. Yes, I guess that is very performative.
It appears, and that's what I see at the root
of it. I mean That's how I feel.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
I obviously have no knowledge of politics at all, Like
I'm not a politician person.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
I do true crime, you know, like I don't know
anything about politics.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
But I feel like, yeah, this is exactly what you said.
You think you nailed it.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
What do you think?

Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely I agree as well. And
it was kind of another stall tactic and another let's
see tactic, and another down exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Right, doing everything I can except releasing the files.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
That I have personally, Yes, exactly right, and that I'm in.
I mean, I guess that does say it all.

Speaker 7 (11:05):
Let's get another go ahead, keep up coming, say good,
come on.

Speaker 11 (11:09):
I don't really have a lot to say in regards
to the Idol Whole murders that we ever find out
or hear from the door dash driver on what they
saw or heard and if they actually just delivered the
food or if it was handed to somebody at the house.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, good question, we did, great question.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
We did.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
We heard from the DoorDash driver in one of the
supplemental reports that was released by the Moscow Police Department,
and she said, you know the house sits on Queen Road. Okay,
so when you when you put in the address one
one two two King Road into like GPS, you kind
of get lost, all right, the way that the lot
was divided up. It's legally on King Road, but it's

(11:52):
technically on Queen, Okay. So the door dras driver said
she was driving around for a while, she couldn't find
the house, and she never actually even saw Coberger. She
never saw the car, she never saw anything. She finally
parked on King on Queen actually right in front of
the surveillance photo or the surveillance video that we have,

(12:12):
and walked with her little flashlight found one one two
two and was like oh, and just dropped it off,
took her little picture and left.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
By the way, she's a hero, and we're so grateful
that she's safe and okay. She had a brush with
death in a very meaningful way, and thankfully she's okay.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
But yeah, if you.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Want to read her statement, it's in the very last
supplemental report that was released by the Moscow Police Department,
if you want to go read it yourself.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
And by the way, we reach out to her.

Speaker 7 (12:41):
We're doing the podcast the final season of the Idaho Massacre,
so we hope you guys will listen, and we've been
reaching out. We haven't connected with her quite yet, but again,
I think she's a hero of this story.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Agreed.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
When we come back, there's more talk Back Tuesday, and
we have more questions about Coburger and Epstein.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
We have some on Marilyn Monroe's.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
Suspicious suicide, and honestly, whatever else you are bringing to
the party, keep here true Crime tonight.

Speaker 7 (13:23):
We're a little punchy tonight. I'm not going to deny
because it is talked back Tuesdays. So listen, we want
to hear from you. Eight eight eight three to one crime.
Jump in join the conversation. The phones are buzzin' this evening.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
So let's go. We'll go straight to it. What's our
next one?

Speaker 12 (13:40):
Hey, girls, I was just listening to the Marilyn Monroe segment,
which is fascinating. Yes, and I had this epipany what
if JFK was killed because he had mallyn killed? You
know how? Like karma exists anyway, Just had that thought

(14:01):
and thought I'd share it. Love you guys, Bye bye bye.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Karma does exist, and it's a you know what.

Speaker 7 (14:09):
Karma is no joke, and that is a really interesting
perspective because listen, we know for sure that the two
are linked, right.

Speaker 5 (14:17):
That has to be the case. Yes, to some degree,
there was an affair. Yeah, there was an affair, that's fact.

Speaker 7 (14:23):
And with brothers, right, there was you know, two brothers,
So yeah, that could very well be. And by the way,
karma is a real thing in my humble experience.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I don't know. I think this is the president of
the United States. I'm going to disagree. I don't think there.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I don't think that the death of Marilyn Monroe is
linked to the death of JFK.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
I mean, you know, I'll go with you. I think
that a step to the karma is I will karma.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, but I'm with our caller, are yeah, yes, Okay, Well,
I think the JFK fouls have been released. Have you
guys read them?

Speaker 7 (15:01):
No?

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Is there anything good?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
I haven't read them either. I want to. I want
to read the JFK files and the MLK files. I
just haven't read them yet.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
But I'm okay.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
I've heard is yeah, a big bag and nothing pretty much, That's.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
What I understand. But you know, I do believe JFK
was killed due to you know, Cuba Baya pigs Vietnam,
et cetera. But I just don't think it has anything
to do with Barrel Monroe. That's just my opinion.

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Well, okay, so I called my mom goes to see
very early and will never be on the show, but
I had a feeling she would have an opinion, and
it's actually pretty it's based on what you just said
in your last talk back, So thank you for that.
So here's a little recording. I called my mom ps.
She had no knowledge I could have been calling her
with the laundry question. But listen how fast she jumps

(15:50):
into my question. I'm curious if you think Marilyn Monroe's
death had anything to do with either Bobby or JFK.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Kennedy.

Speaker 10 (16:00):
Absolutely, Oh, she was having an affair with both of them.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yes, thank you, Benny.

Speaker 13 (16:05):
Jack may have at that time figuring he was in
over his head and she was going to be messy.
Jackie knew about her, you know, it was getting It
wasn't fun anymore, probably, and she's potentially dangerous, so that
would not surprise me.

Speaker 10 (16:20):
Also, Peter Lawford, who was the Hollywood connection. Peter Lawford
was married to Jack's sister Pat Lawford. He was involved
You know he was always around with them too, but
I would absolutely think that that was a big possibility.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Wait a minute, Okay, what was the question you asked her?

Speaker 5 (16:45):
I just said, I said, do you think that the
Kennedys had anything to do with Marilyn Row? Yes, that
I agree with Marathon.

Speaker 7 (16:55):
Everybody not agree with that, But Betty knows what's up
by the way. She always does it like she sees it,
like she hears it. She gives it real straight. But
that I do think it's a matter of fact that
Bobby Kennedy and you know JFK were both in a
relationship with marily Monroe.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
And yes, she was going to be messy and could.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Potentially be a wild card, I think, very very much.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
Tracks And actually we have one more clips a follow
up of exactly what you said.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Okay, so yeah, well more Adam.

Speaker 5 (17:27):
And when you said she could become dangerous like a
loose cannon and just like spill and try and ruin
their reputation.

Speaker 13 (17:33):
Of course, absolutely absolutely that would That's what she could
do very easily. But they used her and abused her bosism,
I mean, and they're horrible to her, and she's an
overly emotional woman.

Speaker 10 (17:48):
Yeah, so come on, I mean.

Speaker 7 (17:50):
Come on, come on, by the way, so good, it's
so good. And by the way, that is a very
good point. And I think it's also worth putting a
little pin on is Marylyn and was very vulnerable.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
We've heard so many accounts and we've all read so
many books.

Speaker 7 (18:04):
I feel like this is a category that we all
are passionate about. So, yeah, she was a real easy
target because although she was America's sweetheart, the world sweetheart,
she was also really isolated and didn't really have a
circle of her own. You know, she had a mother
that was in a mental asylum. You know, she was
kind of alone in the world, and she deeply loved

(18:25):
these Kennedy boys, right, so they played with her, and yeah,
maybe had a protection for Jackie. You know, May she
rest in peace, Jackie Kennedy. We all applaud her as well.
You know, she was the first lady. And perhaps Marilyn
would have just taken it one conversation too far.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
How do we know that, Like, I don't really know
a lot about the story. How do we know that
she was in love with them?

Speaker 5 (18:50):
She journals or Yeah, there's there's been multitudes of books
and people talking about them, and I.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Mean Marylyn people knew her.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
Yeah, absolutely, no, no, no, no, no, okay, this is this
is historical fact. Yeah, I mean Marilyn Monroe had Jackie
O on the phone and was like, JFK is going
to marry me?

Speaker 7 (19:13):
And wait a minute, yeah, yeah, yeah, the real love triangle.
They were messing with Marilyn Monroe. She was like the
most iconic, most beautiful, most important movie star of that
time trophy that you know, because you said you were like, oh,
the brothers, can't they look around? I mean, she was
number one in icon status and you know, we took

(19:34):
a poll about this yesterday at the office. Though, when
we were talking about the Marilyn Monroe saga, I thought
it was pretty unusual for brothers I see in a
relationship with the same woman that was met with a
little bit of I was surprised to hear that, honestly,
to that weird yuck fest.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
I was surprised.

Speaker 7 (19:54):
You are, like the most successful men from the most
iconic family. Can you not find different women to be
scandals with?

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right?

Speaker 7 (20:04):
And by the way, these were both married men, you know,
and then on et cetera, yeah, etcetera, etcetera. Etcetera.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
So there's documented evidence that this was truly like they
did he love her? Do you know, like, does it
say anything about that.

Speaker 7 (20:19):
He loved Jackie?

Speaker 5 (20:21):
Yeah, it doesn't say I mean they both. I mean
actually my mom gave me yeah, and my mom gave
me an earful I didn't particularly like. I guess apparently
John not JFK with John. She's like, oh, yeah, he
was a two minute, two minute man and women said
he was a terrible lover and treated them like trash.
And this is all again and you know, documented biographies
and stuff.

Speaker 7 (20:41):
Wow, yeah, and like he was being respectful to his
family but still having you know, this affair with one
of the most iconic women of our time who was
also a bit of a drug addict and a drunk
so that also added to it.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
We should remind people, like why we're talking about this.
By the way, you're listening to True Current tonight on iHeartRadio.
We're doing back Tuesday, and we're right in the middle
about it, and we're talking about the Marilyn Monroe controversy.
And the reason we're talking about it is we had
Josephcott Morgan on Sunday and he told us there's new
evidence that that he's been aware of that's been out

(21:14):
there that basically these these pills that you know, she
committed suicide, quote unquote committed suicide, that these pills were
found in her colon, right, is that when I understand? Like,
am I saying that?

Speaker 7 (21:28):
Right?

Speaker 2 (21:29):
And in order for that happened, it has to be
administered via like a suppository or some kind of enema, right,
And how she was found was sort of like in
a fetal position, in a fetal position, but upright, right? Okay?

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Is that right?

Speaker 10 (21:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (21:48):
Particularly with the autopsy, it was that the coroner, who
Josephcott Morgan for forensic expert said, is a hero of
him and he is, you know, one of the tops
in the history.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Of the world.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
He was young at the time and was pressured to
not go do as full of an examination, so they
her stomach and intestines, they weren't preserved for toxicology testing,
which made a full forensic analysis impossible.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
That just raises the question.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Of but there's no way for these there's no way
for these like pill capsules to be in her colon
my understandment, at least.

Speaker 7 (22:24):
That's the correct that's my understanding as well, and it's
unusual and that, yeah, the autopsy that would have checked
for the drugs in her body, should she been taking
as many as the crime scene suggested. Remember she was
found with a sheet over her kind of in a
fet fetal position, correct, and then like covered in bottles
of pills. You know, it looked a little over the top, right,

(22:47):
A little stage. A little stage is sort of the
implication we always thought, and by we, I mean my
mom and I always always say, or at least was
speculated that maybe she had taken a bunch of pills
and maybe called one of the Kennedy boys and they
let her die. They didn't we call for help, because
she was calling them for help and they were like,

(23:08):
oh yeah, help's coming, and they were like, lose my number.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
There is evidence that she was calling Bobby Current. He
didn't answer, and in fact, I think she called one
of his friends. I can't remember the guy's name now,
but somebody will know. And he said, yeah, no, she
called me looking for Bobby. So she was calling at
least Bobby that we know of Bobby Kennedy. And you're right,
maybe Bobby was just like, now, listen, there's no cell

(23:34):
phones back then. You know, they're calling a landline.

Speaker 7 (23:36):
They're calling a landline. You know, I actually went to
the house that she, you know, lost her life in
like that is you know, Mari mound Roe is like
you did iconic People and you did some dog was
that I guess? So I guess I pictured her alive
there though not get there. So it was mostly like
the Marilyn Monroe a life scene as opposed to the

(23:57):
death scene. But yeah, it's it's pretty scary, endless and
look in those were different days, and you know, frankly
it's another generation, but I always keep it so curious.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, that's who. That's the name Peter Long and that's.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Who also, you know, Betty's ground zero on.

Speaker 5 (24:13):
That she was like he was in that mix, Yeah
really was, yeah, after.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
And he was the brother in law of jfk Ye
on the night she dies. So Marilyn was reaching out
to even Peter to locate Bobby.

Speaker 7 (24:26):
That's correct.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
So she was she had sort of in a desperate
state to get hold of him. Right now, does that
maybe tell us that she was feeling a certain type
of way maybe, I mean it it is possible that
she still you know, ended her own life. But it
is very suspicious with these pill like casings or whatever
in her colon. It's very suspicious, very suspicious, and it's

(24:48):
hard to do that by yourself, you guys, right, like
it's hard for herself an enema, right, I mean, can
you I don't even know. I've never even done one.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I'm not sure, but maybe I don't know. Guess call
eight three one crime.

Speaker 5 (25:02):
If you have a personal or anecdotal experience, we want
to be.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Possible to give yourself a spot story.

Speaker 7 (25:07):
Yes, right, we're getting off the rails, but I would
because we're not. Let's ask Betty. I do think it's
possible to do both my medical opinion, and it is
possible that if you wanted to kill somebody, doing it
through that manner is possible.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Listen to these talkbocs have us giggling, so listen.

Speaker 7 (25:36):
I don't want them coming. The phones are ringing off
the hook right now, so listen. We want to hear
from you. Eight eight eight three one crime. There is
no topic that you can't ask them. Wow, no, go
for it, bring it, go big or go home. In fact,
go ahead, boys, let's go for another.

Speaker 14 (25:51):
I personally feel like Nicholas go to John should not
be serving unlikee sentence. I believe that he was coerced
and that there's a lot more that goes into it.
I find it ridiculous that Gypsy Rose Blanchard can rebrand yes,
and the person she convinced to murder is going to

(26:14):
live his life in prison.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, you know, she didn't leave her name, but thank
you for the talkback. So Nicholas go to John. Obviously
for those who don't know, Gypsy Rose's boyfriend that she
you know, coerced into killing her mother, DEDE. Blanchard, that's
her name, right.

Speaker 7 (26:32):
That is currently a mother. Was no walk in the park, No,
of course, fully.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, Ded was. She had munch chair and by proxy,
which of course is you know, horrible disease and it
makes you hurt your children for sympathy basically by saying
that they've got all these medical problems and getting all
these medical procedures done and just so that they get attention.
And Gypsy was a victim of that. Well, Gypsy met
Nicholas go to John on the internet because she was

(27:00):
sneaking online and you know they fell in love, and
you know, Nicholas go to John has an IQ issue.
He he's got a very low IQ. I know, he's
been diagnosed with other things. Let's see, I can't remember
what those are at the moment. But he is, you know,

(27:20):
he's vulnerable. He's a vulnerable guy. And and she convinced him,
you know that, you know, she was being tortured and
I believe she was telling the truth about that. And
he was, you know, not okay with that. You know,
his girlfriend is being tortured by you know, her mother.
And Gipsy was like, we have to kill her so
we can be together, basically, you know, I'm paraphrasing. And

(27:41):
Nicholas gotajehan did he She gave him a knife, She
stole a knife.

Speaker 10 (27:46):
She gave me to.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Mail him the knife. She like mailed it to him, No, she.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Did, okay, so after the murder, she mailed it to
his home where they were going. Yeah, so they wouldn't
be traveling with it, which is quite smart actually, but
it was in her. You know, they've got it. And anyway,
Nicholas Gojean got a different sentence than Gypsy Rose did
because Gypsy Rose didn't actually do the actual stabbing of

(28:11):
Dede Blanchard. Nicholas Gotojohan did.

Speaker 7 (28:14):
She was in the other room.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
She was in the other room and telling him. She
told him everything to do.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
But Gypsy Rose is out in being you know, living
her best life and you know, getting married multiple times
and having children and getting facial surgery and dyeing her
hair and rebranding herself and living her best life. And
Nicholas Gtejean is still in prison forever. And I think
the talk back is right. I think I agree, and

(28:42):
I've said this many times too. I do agree, and now,
by the way, I think both things can be true.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
I also I like that Gypsy is.

Speaker 7 (28:50):
Having a moment and going away and being quiet for
a hot minute. She's had a baby, as you mentioned,
she's been married a.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Couple of times. I don't know.

Speaker 7 (28:58):
Like the I do feel like the social media thing
has to stop. Yeah, the TV show has to stop,
Like you know, we're glorifying and giving a spotlight and sensationalizing.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
I think she knows we're on to her. I think
she knows on to her and she's running scared.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
That's my opinion only, yes, Okay, So Nicholas Votajan was
reported to have been diagnosed with ASD, which is autism
spectrum disorder, and of course the Asperger's syndrome which has
been folded into the autism spectrum disorder diagnosis and schizophrenia.
I just wanted to.

Speaker 7 (29:34):
And additionally serve like seven years, right, she was seven
years Yeah?

Speaker 5 (29:39):
Yeah, Just one more thing about Nicholas go to John
was also and this was well publicized and in testified
to that he has more of the mind of a
child than an adult, that he functions the equivalent of
a ten year old, and he has an IQ of
eighty two.

Speaker 7 (29:59):
Right, Like, So those two were like I was playing,
they were like dressing up and cosplaying, and you know,
she was in a wheelchair. She had been, you know,
given these treatments by her crazy mom.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
So I do feel for Gypsy Rose.

Speaker 7 (30:13):
I wonder what Gypsy thinks about it, like if she
was asked, and I feel like I've watched everything about
her and I've somehow watched every episode of everything she's
ever done, and I do I'm very conflicted about it. Also,
I wonder what she would say about his sentence in
comparison to hers.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Has she ever spoken out about that.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
I'm curious because he is getting a raw deal, and
he did fall under her spell, just like you know,
the mom was terrible. But he's looking at a real
long time behind Mars and yeah, she's you know, living.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I think, I think, I don't know. I haven't listen.
When Gypsy was released, the first thing, you know, she
went on some podcasts and she was talking about the
size of her husband's you know member yeah, and I
was I was really disgusted. I was like, oh my god.
So I did not pay attention to her after that,
Like I have not been following, you know, her shenanigans.
I just see her on social media and I'm just

(31:08):
scroll past it, and she just was everywhere, everywhere, everywhere,
and I was like, oh my gosh. And now she's like,
oh now I want my Space. Yeah, because you know,
we're onto you. You know that the crime scene photos
have been publicized and pushed out. We know how brutal
the attack was. You know, we're learning a lot of
things about Nickolish, Fota John and so like, basically, America's

(31:29):
onto you, and now you want to go hide. That's
how I feel. That's my opinion. This is not you know,
reflective on anybody else, just how I feel I.

Speaker 7 (31:37):
Will say I really like her dad as he wished
to dad and her stepmother. They seem like such decent
people who have really stood by her. I'm not sure
that I would have had the same. I don't strength
and fortitude to do that. And why they seem like
good folk and you know, hats off to them, and

(31:58):
she's very lucky to have them. And mostly you know, listen,
you got out of prison, go live your life quietly
and say thank you. But yeah, he really got left
behind in a trash deal in this.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
So here's what Gypsy Rose said about Goda John. All
I can really say is that I did my time,
he's doing his time for his part, and I wish
him well on his journey. And that was in January
twenty twenty four on Good Morning America. So she did
say something, thank you, taha.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Thank you taha.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
And Gypsy Rose, I'm actually I'm morbidly curious to see
her the art she does with paint on the blow dryer.

Speaker 8 (32:39):
Ar.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
Yeah, okay, I just want to I just wait, and
I feel like a shamed saying that she does looked.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, Stephanie literally put some paint on.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
A paper and you blow dry that guy, and it's
allegedly super relaxing and centering.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
This is Gypsy Rose's own words.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
So I just I want to peep at some of
those pictures.

Speaker 7 (33:01):
I did not listen. I say, I've been watching, but
apparently I missed the artwork phase. I was watching her
in her like stroller phase, struggling to figure out how
to you know, become a mom. And you know, she
has had a scandalous little you know, relationship happening, and
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we wish them well, but

(33:22):
I agree Nicholas should have some mercy.

Speaker 15 (33:25):
Yeah, and in real quick, I'll just tell you when
you were out, I made a mistake about this, so
I'll repeat it. Gypsy had launched a new creative art
venture called Blown Beauty Art. I assumed it had to
do with hair drying, but it's actually she used as
a blow dryer to create art. So that's what that's
what she's doing now.

Speaker 7 (33:46):
Sounds ridiculous, it is.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
I feel like we have to all be like it
doesn't just sound ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
I'm not a fian Gypsy. Sorry, no, no one's a fan.

Speaker 7 (33:57):
Listen, everybody deserves like she had been through a lot
that Rose was like reduced to a wheelchair. She was
you know, her teeth were falling out. Her mother was
feeding her comment essentially like literally feeding her like liquid bleach.
So you know, she did serve a lot of time prior.
And by the way, I'm not advocating for what she's done,

(34:19):
but it is a complicated one.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
It is I don't know. I just yeah, whatever she can,
she can fade away.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
I'm giving back to another talkback, yes, and actually if
you want to call us live as well, we would
love to hear from you. We're at eighty eight three
one Crime, True Crime tonight.

Speaker 16 (34:39):
Hey ladies, it's Amsley calling from Canada. Thank you for
your podcast recommendations and of course I've already listened to
your other podcast that you've made about Amy Bradley's case.
But I don't understand is how one of the captains

(35:00):
or the cruise directors was saying, you know, we can't
stop the ship and we're going to port because there's
one person who is missing. If I was on that
cruise and someone was missing, I would have been very
happy to not port. Anyways, looking forward to hearing you tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (35:19):
By that is so true.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I couldnot agree more.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
You know that that whole scenario is getting a lot
of feedback from the public. In fact, somebody reached out
to me about a petition that they've created to get,
you know, some sort of standardization on these cruise lines
to you know, basically halt operations when somebody goes missing.
Apparently they don't apparently they don't like the vacation keeps going.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
It's the I mean, it's the facade. It's the facade.

Speaker 5 (35:47):
And you know, as we talked about the Amy Bradley
documentary that you referenced it had.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
It was I forget tava.

Speaker 5 (35:55):
I mean, you could double check where it is and
what it's called, but it was really really been blowing up.
And this cruise yes, no, no, no, no, the Amy Bradley.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Oh, the Amy Bradley. I'm sorry, but you went after
you're talking about another one. Okay, sorry, by no. So
that this woman went on a cruise with the family.
She was in her mid twenties. She disappeared, and when
her family frantically went to everyone who worked on the cruise,
they said, you know, sorry, they wouldn't even make an
announcement because it was early in the morning.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
They said, oh, it's seven o'clock. People are resting.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
We don't want to disrupt them.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
And yeah, then it became too close to the disembark time,
so they were getting too close to port and in
the family was like, can we halt you know the porty, Yes,
of course and disembarking because you know, our daughter and
sister is missing. And the cruise director basically is like,
we can't halt the vacation of two thousand people because

(36:53):
of your daughter.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
I'm fair of phrasing. I'm paraphrasing no, but I mean
that's very, very close. And you know, the is, remember
it's the law of the sea is incredibly complicated and confusing,
and basically the captain of the ship, who is an
employee of a multi billion dollar, multimillion dollar at least,

(37:17):
you know, that's who's running things, and they want people
to have fun.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Right, that's crazius beyondest it is.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
It is like I think, if something goes overboard, the
ship should stop, of course, you know.

Speaker 7 (37:29):
And you would assume that, by the way, and as
a passenger, I would want that for somebody else if
my of course, my fellow cruise shipper something went awry,
of course I would want to help, of course hideous, Yeah,
of course. So we just are going kind of wild
right now, So keep the calls coming eight eight eight
three one crime. You could also leave us a talk

(37:50):
back on the iHeartRadio app, or you could just leave
us a message on our voicemail, or you could also
hit us up in our socials at True Crime Tonight
show on TikTok and Instagram, or at True Crime Tonight
on Facebook. So Adam, Sam, bring it. Just give us
something completely wild.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
We are we're going in for a.

Speaker 17 (38:11):
Ready, Hey, True Crime Tonight. This is Jeff from Connecticut.
I heard you talking about the chimp stories the other day,
and we had one in my hometown. A local lady
was feeding and growing up her pet chimp and she
was giving it Xanax and wine.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
And when we.

Speaker 17 (38:28):
Moved up to the area, I heard the news story
all over that it ripped someone's face off and attacked
everyone had to euthanize it. And I just don't think
that that's fair, that we should be treating animals like humans.

Speaker 7 (38:38):
Love Jeff, whoa Jeff from Connecticut that was in chim Crazy.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
They talked about that in chim Crazy, And I remember
when this happened.

Speaker 5 (38:46):
I'm so hot, Jeff, I am, I am. That's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
The owner, her friend came over to the house and
they were going somewhere and her chimp was with her,
and for what a reason, the chimp went literally crazy
on this her friend and like ripped her face off.
She she survived, she survived, and she went on I
think Oprah or like I.

Speaker 5 (39:13):
Was gonna say, it was this a long time ago? Y, yeah,
and I do remember her on Oprah and yeah, and.

Speaker 7 (39:18):
Jeff, you're correct, I recall her is so smart and astute,
because yes, this chimp was being treated like an adult
human and being fed like cheerios and booze and yeah,
and then there were surprise that it acted out.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
The dad died like her husband, which was like very
close to this this chimp. I can't remember the chimp's name,
but after the I think, I think, and I might
be getting some details wrong, but I'm going for memory.
And you know, of course, this was de stabilizing to
the chimp and kind of went down from a hill
from here. Listen, these are not these are not creatures

(39:52):
that we need to keep as pets. Oh pease, please, please,
please please Their pack. They they belonged, they belong with
their families. You know, they're not supposed to be in cages,
and you know, dressed in overalls and you know, rainbow
striped T shirts. This these are these are smart mammals.

Speaker 10 (40:09):
There.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
They use they communicate with one another, they use tools
like come on, can we like in fifty years people
are going to look back at this time and just
think we're so barbaric for the way that we treat
these mammals, that whales at SeaWorld. Oh my god, I
don't get me started, but like you know, I just
it drives me crazy that these people think that, you know,
this is their baby. No, this is a wild animal.

(40:31):
This is a wild animal that deserves its freedom, and
we humans need to stay away from them.

Speaker 7 (40:36):
Have you guys ever seen the cutest little monkey though?
Bbe the monkey, Like no, no, it's like Bebe's like
a little like it's not really a monkey. I don't
know if it's like a little guy. It's like a
little And then he does get dressed up. Oh now
that I'm thinking, I mean, listen, I mean that pops
up on my feet and like he like gets himself dressed.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Get it alicated animal. Get a yeah or bird? Come on,
like enough with the wild animals already, you know we're
you're not God, stop it.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Birds are very complex animals too.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
All lived with a cockatoo who is very very very
smart and means so much stimulation and things to do.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
And in the cockatoo.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
Wait, my husband came with a cockatoo and yeah, they
lived for like seventy five years. He was in Wade's will.
Actually the bird Junior, Yeah they live bird Junior, Yeah,
Junior bird.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Very cute.

Speaker 7 (41:41):
Okay, listen, we're going to be back. It's talk back Tuesday.
Shout out to bb the little cutie. But listen and
Junior may he pressed in peace. We'll be right back
through Crime tonight. We're talking to crime all the time.

(42:05):
And listen, we're so excited that it is talkback Tuesday.
That means we exclusively get to hear from you. It
is a stacked night of talkbacks, so listen, please jump
in join the conversation eight eight eight three one Crime.
And if you've missed any of the show No Sweat,
you could always catch us right after as a podcast.

(42:26):
So talkbacks, let's go, which one should we get next?
Out room.

Speaker 11 (42:32):
Hi.

Speaker 18 (42:33):
My name is Cricket and I'm calling from Connecticut. You
guys are talking about dark tourism and the Manson family
tour and it reminded me that when I was in
my twenties eons ago, I actually looked into renting the
Lobbyanca and in the end.

Speaker 10 (42:51):
Decided that that was a little too creepy for me.
But I thought that was an interesting you know what,
What was.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
You rented for?

Speaker 7 (42:58):
Though? I wonder, like for in a ca Asian like
a wedding, maybe to stay and look at Airbnb stay. Yeah,
oh I see see. I say, now.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Listen, I'm so happy that other people are willing to
admit that they're kind of they would do this right.
So the LaBianca house, for those that don't know, this
was where the Charles Manson family killed a bunch of
people and it was it became like this really like
famous house. I think it's gone now, isn't it. Didn't
they tear it down.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
It's torn it's torn down.

Speaker 5 (43:27):
But yeah, this was if you can picture the crime scene,
it was helter Skelter written on the wall. Sharon Tate,
who is a big actress at the time, she's nine
months pregnant exactly right.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
She was nine months pregnant and was murdered, and I cricket.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
I also love that you, uh, you know, called in
about that dark tourism.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
It's been. We've gotten quite a few people who are sort.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
Of calling or leaving talkbacks because dark torum is tourism
is for when you go to a place that's a
little bit macabre or where something happened. And example, as
we gave Present Day, there's a Jeffrey Dahmer wore you
can take as an example as sort of the darkest.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
That's as dark as it gets.

Speaker 7 (44:09):
That's as dark as I think that one should be
on the tour. I feel like because everybody said yes
to that tour, I was gone that day.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I was busy moving.

Speaker 7 (44:18):
But I don't think that's a I don't think that's
a great pop example of it because like I don't
know why, but that just seems like.

Speaker 5 (44:26):
I feel like one person actually trying to remember who
It wasn't me, but someone did.

Speaker 7 (44:32):
But okay, so now we go to the Helter Skelter House.
I just would be too afraid to stay there because
it could potentially be haunted.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
So the isn't the I don't think the LaBianca houses
where Sharon Tate was was it was the husband and wife, wasn't.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
It Wasn't it the neighbor or something?

Speaker 2 (44:48):
I no, No, it was the second So they did
the Sharon Tates house the role in plan Ski House, right,
and then the next two nights something they went to
the neighbor. They were the ry cleaning people. I think
they were the husband and wife. This has just happened
so long ago. I don't remember, but I mean I
wasn't even lying.

Speaker 7 (45:08):
Yeah, that's the issue with the doctors is if it's
one thing to drive by the house because you're curious,
and I get it. However, to stay in the house
there might be spirit or something scary in there that.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
To me would be way too scary.

Speaker 7 (45:24):
So there's no judgment. I but I give you a
lot of credit for even thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, what do we got next?

Speaker 4 (45:33):
Hey, guys.

Speaker 8 (45:34):
I loved hearing Body and Courtney talk about things they
found fascinating forensically and the new advances in forensic science.
One thing I find super fascinating is body farms and
the concept of body farms. One of my heroes is
William Bass, who founded the first one in Tennessee. I
would love for you guys to maybe talk about this
and talk about how these have helped in forensics.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
On an episode one.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Day, I'm yours, Let's do it right now.

Speaker 7 (46:00):
Had an interview with him on a different project and yeah,
he is like the godfather of the body you know,
the body farms in Knoxville. Yeah, he's the guy, right,
So remains very interesting for what it's.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Such a it's such a smart thing to do. So
for those that don't know, a body farm is basically
a research facility where scientists study human decomp under like
really controlled environmental conditions. Right, So what they'll do is
they'll they and they do this to understand the process
of decay and to help forensic science with CPIC with

(46:34):
crimes and you know, and determine what's a crime and
what's not a crime.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
In you know, they'll do it.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
You know, they'll bury someone, they'll let them do they'll
let them decay, you know, in the open. They'll put
them you know, in the water, they'll put them in
different conditions to see how those environmental factors change the
way the body decays. And usually people donate their body
to science to do this. In fact, the only reason
I even know about this was because of Casey Anthony.

(47:02):
And do you remember I don't know if you watch
Charge or not, but they did. They took air.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Do you remember that? Of course?

Speaker 2 (47:11):
And so my mom bless her soul got rest in peace,
I will you know. I miss her very much every day.
But she wanted to donate her body to science and
for this body farm stuff. So I had to go
do all this research on body farms. And I was like, no,
we're not doing that, but it is. It is fascinating.
So you donate your body to science. They'll be placed
either above ground, buried, submerged in water, or left in vehicles,

(47:35):
let's say, to mimic real crime scene scenarios. And then
the researchers track decomp along the way. Fresh is it fresh?
Is they're bloating?

Speaker 10 (47:46):
You know?

Speaker 2 (47:46):
They'll just they'll examine the body decay every step of
the way, and they note it, and they pass these
things on to people in the field to make determinations
about how long somebody's been dead. You know, the insects
that have been found, the kind of insect casings, you know,
all those things that we kind of are fascinated by
a little bit, right, Yeah, it's civitally important.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
They gather.

Speaker 5 (48:11):
Yes, Stephanie, I have to know. I can't believe you
guys interviewed him. Anything stand out or is it under
wraps until the project's revealed that it's under wraps.

Speaker 7 (48:21):
Stacy Lee, who is the director of a project that
we are working on.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
I'm not sure I'm about to talk about it.

Speaker 7 (48:26):
But yes, Gus interviewed. And you know, listen, it's the
real deal. This is like the person who is like
the godfather of right and science is a real thing.

Speaker 12 (48:38):
You know.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
We see this from Joseph Scott Morgan.

Speaker 7 (48:40):
In fact, Joseph Scott Morgan was the person who tipped
us off to talk to him at the body fire.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
We should talk to Joseph about this on say, yeah,
I mean this is such an interesting subject. So from
my understanding, the first one was in Tennessee and Knoxville,
like you said, William, doctor William Bass. And then I
believe if there's one in Texas, in Colorado and either
South Carolina or North Carolina or Georgia one of those

(49:07):
you know, southern coastal states. But yeah, it's fascinating. I
really think they need to put one in like Nevada
and California. Two for more arid climates, right, because these
are very human climates, right, because climate will change how
body the case, two, especially if it's exposed to you know,
the elements. Anyway, I go off on a tangent, but

(49:28):
it's very fascinating.

Speaker 7 (49:29):
I will say this, Like, you know, remember Courtney, we
did a documentary called Murdered and Missing in Montana which
really focused on you know, many deaths in missing girls
on Native American reservations, and one of them that we
were looking into, her body was sort of tossed over
a fence and left in the in the bright sun,

(49:50):
seemingly for days. Right, So the decomposition of her body
was a real tell because everything single thing that could
have possibly happened and in this you know big sunny
day now ad elements, ad bugs. It was fascinating and
so scary and creepy, and but it really was a tell.

(50:15):
There was so much science to it that my respect
is huge for the field, and I feel like we
learned a lot on that project.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Wow, I'd love to have him on the show. That
would be really cool.

Speaker 7 (50:34):
I think we can do that Actually, I think that's again,
I think we can like, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Before really quick, before body farms, they would use animals,
you know, of course, but animals don't have the same
properties right the body that you can do. So it
was only like you know, guesswork. This is much more
you know, scientific, and again it's very controlled, it's very professional.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
It's it's a terrible.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Name for a very very important piece of forensic history.

Speaker 5 (51:02):
It's an accurate name, and it's almost you know, it's
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
And this is a shout out to anyone.

Speaker 5 (51:08):
I've been yapping and no one here at True Crime
tonight is with me and was obsessed with Patricia Cornwell
for and all of her books. But anyway, Paulin, if
you love her like I do, will chat about her
book Body.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Farm and all the others.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah, I read that. I never heard of it all.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Yeah, she's who do we?

Speaker 7 (51:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:29):
What's up next? Up?

Speaker 10 (51:31):
Hey girls.

Speaker 8 (51:32):
I know that you guys have talked a lot about
Glean Maxwell and about.

Speaker 10 (51:35):
The subject of grooming in general. It reminds me a.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Lot of the Pamela Smart case and I would love
for you guys to cover it one day in a
possible episode and where y'all take on it.

Speaker 10 (51:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
I was just talking about this today.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
That's so weird, Are you serious?

Speaker 10 (51:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (51:51):
Go ahead, remind me of you. Remind me of Pamela Smart.
I don't jumped out of your skin just now.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Well I remember this case so well, you guys are
remember Pamela Smart. She was the teacher, she was like
twenty two, she was married, and she hooked up with
this like class one of her students. He was fifteen,
he was like fourteen or fifteen years old, and basically
he killed her husband. And then it comes out that
he killed her husband for her, like she's in prison

(52:18):
right now.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
By the way, not when I'm similar.

Speaker 7 (52:22):
Yeah, this not so dissimilar to the Gypsy Rose thing.
So basically this adult woman, well it's very different, But
I'm just speaking about the idea of somebody putting somebody
else up for the murder so that their hands remain clean.
In this case, this school teacher puts up this young
student who you know, we could all agree probably his
frontal lobe was not fully developed. He was a young student.

(52:44):
She was a beautiful yet older woman, and then he
kills the husband. But it was really by design by her.
And you know, I'm curious about his sentence to this day.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Are they similar? I'm going to find it.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I'm not sure, but I do remember his name.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
His name was No.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Her husband's name was Greg, and his name was like
will Billy, Billy, I think, And he was a student.
This happened in like nineteen eighty nine, or.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
This happened Okay, so this happened in nineteen ninety again
I did. I would called the name yeah, and then
the boys she was having an affair with, who was
fifteen at the time. He was freed in twenty fifteen
after serving a twenty five year sentence.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Wow, so there were there were two others involved, like
his friends. It wasn't just right Billy, Yeah, yeah, right.
But you know, I remember being, you know, younger. I
wasn't little. Why did I think I was little? But
my mom was like addicted to true crime. Okay, like
this is where I get it, Okay, apples and trees, apples,
and this Pamela Smart story was on the cover of

(53:59):
every really like Star magazine, World News, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera. And they were always all over our house.
And I was I mean, you couldn't get away from
this panel smart story. It was huge news. We should
definitely cover this, I would.

Speaker 7 (54:15):
Why don't because yeah, and she has since, Like I
feel like this was about a year ago. She kind
of cop to it a bit and has come out.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
There was a kind of like a recent like either
a documentary or a documentary part of a documentary series
where it was a Pamela's smart story. And I remember
she's got she got educated. She I think she went
to college in prison and did a bunch of good stuff. Yes,
but I don't remember she basically coped to it.

Speaker 7 (54:41):
I think she cops to it, and she sort of
becomes a bit of an advocate and really kind of
begins to turn her life around. So yeah, we should
look into that a little bit deeper and do a
deep diver in that one day.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Let's do it. I'm all for it because that was
a really interesting story. It's kind of part of my
childhood a little bit. I mean, like that sounds kind
of weird, but again, you know, this is what we
would do. We would sit in the morning and I
would eat my breakfast and my mom and I would
read the Inquirer and Pamela Smart was what over it? Yes,
Sar Star magazine do you remember that, Yes, because myma, yes,

(55:13):
And it was like I feel like Star was a
little classier than the Inquirer back then. But World News
that one was like the trash magazine. Yeah, and all
of them, the son Yeah it all.

Speaker 7 (55:24):
Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lydecker here with
Courtney Armstrong and Body Movin, my two favorite ladies here
on a very wild talk back Tuesday. Talkback Tuesday means
you guys get to talk back. So give it to
us straight, tell us what you're thinking, give us your opinions.

(55:46):
Eight A eight three one crime. Gentlemen, let's go to
another one.

Speaker 19 (55:50):
Now, Hi, ladies, this is Heather in North Carolina. I
love your show. I was wondering if you have heard
about and would consider covering the story of the Gilbert Goons.
Apparently this roving band of teenagers and Gilbert Arizona who
have just hijacked the town with their violence.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
No, I never even heard of it.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I don't know what this is that Gilbert Gilberting.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I am familiar with Gilbert, Arizona. I've been there, but
I don't know a thing about this.

Speaker 7 (56:20):
What happens the whole town is taken over by violence?

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Do you remember that town that was getting threatened by clowns?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Do you remember that?

Speaker 8 (56:27):
That?

Speaker 12 (56:27):
So?

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Is it the same thing?

Speaker 7 (56:28):
My very worst night there?

Speaker 3 (56:30):
That what you just said. I don't even want to
talk about it.

Speaker 7 (56:32):
That is so the idea of clown no, I hate
them petrifies me.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I hate them.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
We should will totally dig into this.

Speaker 5 (56:39):
I mean, I'm I had also not heard about it,
but apparently there's a bill out to make Gilbert Goon
style attacks felonies moving forward in Arizona State.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
So what are Gilbert Goon style attacks?

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Thoughts? Yeah, let's dig in right now strong again.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
This is well, I'm quick with the google. It's just oh,
what is I mean? One of their I guess felonies
was in response to the brutal beating death of a
man at the hands of a teen gang called the
Gilbert Goons. Uh the Maripoka County. Yeah, attorney wants to
make group assaults on a single person felonies instead of misdemeanors.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Okay, okay, okay, next, let's go easy to do it.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Let's do a deep dive on this. I think it's
a great suggestion. Thank you for the talkback.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Because schedule of things to look at I.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Have already written it down. I started looking into it.

Speaker 15 (57:40):
This sounds.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Yeah, I know in the past thirty seconds.

Speaker 7 (57:45):
How much could we just do a little shout out
to ours and then control room? We have Sam and
Adam and you guys have not had the benefit of
meeting them verbally or physically yet, but they're just the best.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
And Oscar.

Speaker 7 (58:02):
We have the greatest team in the business, and they
make it such a joy to come here. We giggle
even in these very dark, dark dark conversations. You know,
it's just it's my favorite two hours of the night.
So thanks shout out to the guys.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Oh, he said likewise, but he's not going to say it.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I keep telling him to. But but in just.

Speaker 7 (58:29):
One of these days, you're going to bring Rita, your
cat to the show, and we're going to meet her live.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Does Yo get along with cats? We might have your
best of friends.

Speaker 7 (58:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
I think they'll be best of friends.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah. I have a Katny Mochi and Yogi and her
play all the time.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
Yeah. I get that.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
I get that, So more on that to come. Anyway,
we'll look into the movie. Thank you for the tip,
Thank you, thank you for the tip. Yeah, definitely, Well
we like that. What do we go next.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Hi?

Speaker 20 (58:58):
My name is Dianna. I'm from Georgia. I know you
guys are sick of Ditty, but.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
I was curious, say, nobody.

Speaker 20 (59:07):
System in place to monitor the bank accounts of the
jurors in a case like this, where he is so manipulative,
you have to wonder if maybe he could have gotten
to one of them.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
No, I yes, by the way, that is yes.

Speaker 7 (59:27):
Don't think that I haven't been thinking about Diddy, because
I have, but that is a great suggestion.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
I've never thought of that.

Speaker 7 (59:34):
There it had been alleged, alleged, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. I'm
trying to say that as much because I know it's
crazy making, but allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, Diddy's team was
paying influencers up to forty thousand dollars a pop to
put out social media posts that were very pro Diddy

(59:57):
obviously during the trial. And that's big business, right, So
you to have a lot of cash in her pocket
to be blown out forty thousand dollars her influencer. Can
you imagine.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
Well, what's interesting about that in particular is think about
the circle that Diddy has swam in for literal decades,
and they had to in this moment pay out influencers
versus the crickets.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
For everyone who had been.

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
To all these parties all his years or signed all
his labels, nobody, nobody.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Came out at all.

Speaker 7 (01:00:28):
And by the way, remember at the very final hour,
what was our talk about she didn't give her name?
Did she give her name? But that's a really good
point because you know, remember that, Oh my god, can
I forget that that's my real name, Dana. In the
eleventh hour, there was some like confusion amongst the jurors,
right there was wonder that was like a little confused

(01:00:49):
all of a sudden, And the implication, the idea was
potentially that they had gotten to them because they weren't sequestered.
So if you're not going to sequester the jurors, you
should monitor their bank.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I disagree, I totally disagree. Then I wisten to them
if they sequester them charged for exactly I know, I know,
but imagine that it's a huge invasion of privacy. You're
already sacrificing so much to be on dury duty, and
now you want to monitor my bank account. That is
what Vordier is for.

Speaker 7 (01:01:24):
What's Yeah, you said it so beautifully, just now said perfectly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Thank you said it perfectly. But that's what that's for.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
That's what for, you know, sussing out the jury, jury
screening is for. And like, there's massive privacy protections that
need to be in place, and monitoring somebody's bank account
is a massive violation.

Speaker 7 (01:01:41):
Of that massive did he slammed it pretty but in cases.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Like this were influenced In cases like this though, where
influencers can be paid and whatnot, jury should be sequestered.
One hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
I'm shocked that that didn't happen. That's the first thing
I am to number number two.

Speaker 7 (01:01:57):
Did he's been quiet, right, So we're gearing up for
the fall where you know he's going to have his
his sentencing. Dare I say? And also he's slapping some
lawsuits left, right and all over the place. You know,
I believe it's news nation right that he has tossed
another lawsuit at and yeah, yeah, there's been several that
have been come in the way. So and look, he's

(01:02:20):
still hoping that Trump is going to pardon him. I
just saw Mark Geret interview YEP, and Mark Garrett's attorney
is saying, like, yeah, did he will pledge allegiance to Trump?
Even though did he has said many awful things about Trump.
Now he will change his theory and he will pledge

(01:02:41):
his allegiance to Trump, and Trump may in fact pardon him.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
This is the world. We live in a circus.

Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
The Handmaid's Tale. Honestly, like we are all just I
don't know, but.

Speaker 5 (01:02:55):
Stephanie, you said, did He's been quiet lately? They have
done five appeal to get his next next child date
pushed up. I would not consider that in the press
though he hasn't been making any big allegations. He hasn't
been like, you know, they could be a little louder
right now. I think they're kind of quietly playing by

(01:03:16):
the roles a little bit behind the scenes. And I
haven't seen much of his family.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
You're listening to True crime tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm body
movin and I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong
and we are right in the middle of Talkback Tuesday.
If you want to join in on the fun, download
the iHeartRadio app, search for True Crime Tonight, click the
little microphone and leave us a talk back in Boom,
you're going to be on the show. Speaking of talkbacks,
let's go to another one.

Speaker 12 (01:03:42):
Hey, y'all.

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
To be wondering where the couple.

Speaker 7 (01:03:49):
They must be multi billionaires because serracy is very expensive.

Speaker 5 (01:03:55):
So where are they getting all this money?

Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
Yes, to have multiple women, Yes, bring your babies.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Love you great work, Oh, love you too, Thank you,
We love you too. I mean, that story was insane.
And don't and don't forget they were named like Mark
Circusy Investments. So did they have an investment company like
the city selling the babies? No, they're keeping them. Well, Hi,
for what purpose? We don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
Well, we don't know, so we will be Yeah, we'll
keep such a huge story.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Good question. And there are so many questions.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Like I mean, and all these they had like twenty
twenty twenty one, twenty one children, most of them were
anywhere between the ages of one and three. So were
they raising them to be groomed or something? I don't know,
but it's hell it's hello weird.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
That's all I know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
It's hello weird. It creeped me out.

Speaker 21 (01:04:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Stuff with kids just really it freaks me out. I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
I'll be so curious when more stuff comes out. Gig.

Speaker 5 (01:04:58):
To your point, who was funding it or was it
self funding? And were these children? Was the master plan
to have them all grow up and all be one
big happy, you know, twenty three person family or something
more nefarious, although that in itself is pretty nefarious.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
I mean twenty ye toddlers sanely, so I like to
say the word nefarious like, I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Mean, this is all that wants too, so like all
at once they have all these surrogates. I mean they
probably have like six or seven at a time. That's
a big money and reaching it on Facebook. Hey want
to be my surrogate.

Speaker 7 (01:05:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Maybe I don't know. DG.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
That is it's such a weird story, And thank you
for the talk back.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
It's just strange tangent.

Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
But the optimom I recently went down the octomom tangent and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
My dad was obsessed with her.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
I had forgotten about the octomom.

Speaker 7 (01:05:49):
Dad.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
If you're listening, it's weird.

Speaker 7 (01:05:50):
Okay, Well she actually pulled it off, you know, I
have to do. I turned my vote around on the octomom.
I might have been judgmental back in the day. But
her kids turned out great. They did, They really did.
I think she remained quiet. She somehow pulled it off
despite whatever messiness I remember in the Donnie Who days, right,

(01:06:11):
or oh, we'll remember the Sally Desira fail days like
that was such a hot topic and it was so messy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
But her kids turned out really exceptional. So I don't
know how I remember her story.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
She wasn't pregnant with the eight kids at once, was she?

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Yes, she was. She delivered eight children at one time.

Speaker 7 (01:06:29):
I think she had gone to her fertility clinic and
despite her her parents thought she was probably nuts at
the time, she did in fact have these children and
had to do all kinds of terrible things and hard
things and made some rough choices to be able to
put you know, food on the table. But now fast forward,
you know, fifteen twenty years later, those kids turned out

(01:06:51):
really great. I'm not suggesting anybody should be having eight children.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
Follow it in her path, Yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (01:06:59):
Know, But for whatever it's worth, that could go sideways obviously,
but it wasn't sur legacy. She carried these children, right,
she carried them. I think it was fertility treatment.

Speaker 15 (01:07:10):
Wow, you're correct, and they're sixteen years old now it
looks like yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
I think she lived in my dad's neighborhood or something
in Orange County and.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Your dad's bringing over eight loaves of brand at a time,
like need me to help.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
He just really was fond of her for some reason.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Yeah, And it's sort of yeah, must have.

Speaker 7 (01:07:28):
Liked her because she was very apparently. I don't know
why or how. I haven't followed it super closely, but
I just slightly went down the rabbit hole recently and
she seems like she.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
What youre doing?

Speaker 7 (01:07:39):
Going down in octousm Sometimes you can't sleep, you know
you try, Sometimes I can't sleep.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
Little octomom.

Speaker 5 (01:07:47):
Well, Lollia, well listen, keep it here because after the break,
we are continuing with more talkbacks on this talkback Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
That is you joining us or give us a.

Speaker 5 (01:07:58):
Call eighty eight to three one crime, keep it here,
True crime tonight, or we're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
I love this cue.

Speaker 7 (01:08:16):
It's like a little chippy and a little exciting and
a little suspicious. Welcome back to true crime tonight. We
are talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker
here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. And we're very,
very excited that it is talked Back Tuesday, which means
we get to hear from you the entire night. So
we're paying talk back listener, roulette. We are unprepared for

(01:08:39):
any of these questions or theories or ideas. By the way,
this last one about these what is it called the
Gilbert Gilbert goons?

Speaker 3 (01:08:49):
None of us have heard what a scary one, even
on a level. I'm excited to dig one.

Speaker 7 (01:08:55):
Actually, that was a great suggestion, so keep them coming.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
We have talk backs.

Speaker 7 (01:09:00):
Let's go to another one because we had to jam
through so many.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
Come on, bring it on, Adam and Sam.

Speaker 16 (01:09:06):
Hi, ladies, it's Ainsley calling from Canada.

Speaker 10 (01:09:09):
Oh lovely, I.

Speaker 16 (01:09:11):
Was wondering if you could walk through the roommate statements
from the stay case. Thank you again, of course.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
So there's two surviving roommates of the Idaho student murders.
There's Bethany and Dylan, and we can start summarizing. Let's
start with Bethany Bethany was on the first floor. She
was down there alone when the murders took place. She
was the only one on that floor living on that

(01:09:40):
floor at the time. So she said, I'm just gonna summarize.
She said, she was on the second floor in the
living room watching Vampire Diaries with Dylan and somebody named Elle.
We don't know who Ell is. So around two o'clock
in the morning, Kaylee and Maddie came home from the
Corner Club, and you know, they had visited the grub

(01:10:01):
truck and they were all just sitting around Bethany and
let Bethany and Maddie took out Murphy the dog around
somewhere between two and two thirty to go to the bathroom,
and then Bethany went in the kitchen. She said it
was too cold to stay outside. Madison was out there
with Murphy alone. Bethany got a drink and some chips,

(01:10:25):
and she went down to her room.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
She watched.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Baby Daddy on her iPad for a little bit. A
short time later, Madison knocked on her door and was like,
I can't find Murphy, which is interesting and something that
not a lot of people are talking about. Madison couldn't
find Murphy. And this was around two thirty in the morning.
Around that time. Later that night, you know, around four

(01:10:55):
o'clock or so, she was woken up. She heard the pong,
like a disturbance at the pong table, the beer pong table,
and she thought what she saw was like a sparkler
under her door and a firecracker sound.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
And then she.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Started calling the roommates, Dylan, Bethany, et cetera, et cetera.
And we we learned that, you know, of course, her
and Dylan were texting like did do what's going on?
You know, come down here, come stay with me. They
were scared, they were scared. Well, we later learned that
Dylan ran down to her room, as we know, and

(01:11:37):
Bethany kind of talked her out of calling nine one one, like, oh,
you're probably imagining things, you know, that kind of thing,
which is really sad because you know, Dylan has taken
a lot of crap from a lot of people, right,
both have, they both have. We hate it, we hate it, right, So,
from Dylan's perspective, she was in her bedroom around four

(01:12:01):
o'clock in the morning, she heard what she believed was Kaylee,
I'm going to repeat this again. She repeats it many times,
Kaylee saying that there was somebody here. She then heard
like a commotion and someone running down from the third floor,
which I believe was Brian Coberger. She heard somebody come
down the stairs, and a short time later she heard

(01:12:24):
that person say you're fine, I'm going to help you.
A few minutes later, she peeked out her room and
saw a male figure approximately six foot tall, slim build,
wearing a black ski mask. He had a big nose
and bushy eyebrows, and he walked past her and he
was carrying like something bulgy, kind of in the shape
of a vacuum or an arrow, an arrow shape, and

(01:12:47):
then she saw him go through the slider and then
she shut her door, and she said she locked it. Then,
of course we know this is when the texting starts
happening between Bethany and Dylan, and Bethany says, well, come
down here, you know were so Dylan is saying there
was a man, and there was He was wearing all black,
and Bethany says, well, Sannah was wearing all black. So
from that I could surmise Bethany's trying to call him.

(01:13:10):
Dylan down right, Oh well, Sannah was wearing all black.
You probably just saw Sannah come down here, you know,
And we later learned that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
In fact, Bethany was saying to Dylan, you're you're probably
imagining this. You're drunk, Like, just let's go to bed.
So they went to bed and woke up, and that's
when they called Hunter and Emily. That's basically a summary
of their statements.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
And prior to that, also, they were calling up to
the girls, right yea, so here they are.

Speaker 7 (01:13:35):
They're waking up, you know, they called their one of
them called their parents and they start calling.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
She had a toothache.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Yeah, Bethany had a toothache and she was tooth was
She called her dad and she was like, what should
I tell you? And he was like advil and she
did and she took the advil and then she's saying,
are you guys up?

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Are you guys up? So again it's a total implication.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
And then it's there were you know, do you remember
waking up with the hangover and then like you shoot
out of bed like, oh my god, I can't believe
I did that. I just I embarrassed myself last night.
I can't believe, I said, I think that's what was happening.
They kind of woke up and they were like, wait
a minute, I saw a guy. I know, I saw
a guy.

Speaker 8 (01:14:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
It's like flashing, and then they I can't start freaking themselves.

Speaker 7 (01:14:13):
In a house where there's many of them, so it
would it be completely uncommon for there to be a
guy in the house. It could have just been a
friend that was coming over, you know, So like I
think you get a little conditioned to activity in your
house when you're living in a house off campus with
many people in.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
A college vibe.

Speaker 7 (01:14:30):
And yeah, then they start texting upstairs to you know,
to Kaylee and Madison, are.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Are you up?

Speaker 8 (01:14:35):
Are you up?

Speaker 7 (01:14:36):
Are you up? So they're not thinking that they're dead,
they're thinking that they had a sleep.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
I think it's time they start by. They are kind
of things, they're starting.

Speaker 7 (01:14:43):
To freak out, and then they're like, you know, it's
just it's just so sad.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Our hearts just are so broken for you know, if
if by any chance, you know, this gets to them,
you know, you did nothing wrong, of course, nothing you
could nothing you nothing you could have done that night,
of course would have saved them. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
In fact, Thank God they're safe, thank God.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
And you know what, you know, sometimes I think some
of these people who just can't let it go would
only be happy if they were dead too. I'm at
that point with this, that's what it would only be
happy if they were dead too. I look deep within
yourself at this point. These were young young women nineteen
years old.

Speaker 7 (01:15:19):
Nineteen years old, and we were just talking about this yesterday.
You know, you know this is like survivor's guilt a
little bit too, yes, like we were to allow some
grace and some decency. They've been through so much. Yes,
their lives very easily could have been taken. It's actually
bananas that it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
They weren't. Wow. So here's what I think.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
God, I think Murphy was barking. We can hear it.

Speaker 7 (01:15:42):
He got me kind of frazzled.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
We know from the blah blood I'm sorry, the blood
droplets on Xana's floor, the perfectly round rud right in
front of her door. That Brian Coberger was standing there
for a hot minute. Okay, Now, was he waiting for
Murphy to be quiet so he could get out of
the house like was he? I think he was overstimulated.

(01:16:06):
He has autism, and I think he was getting overstimulated
with everything that was going on and he had to
get out of there. He knew he had to get
out of there, and that's why Dylan survived. I think
Murphy kind of maybe saved Dylan's life.

Speaker 7 (01:16:20):
Oh little Murphy.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
God bless Murphy, Thank God is alive well.

Speaker 5 (01:16:23):
And as she said, you know, thank God that thank
those two roommates and just wishing them well on life's journey.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Yes, and we're going to do amazing things.

Speaker 7 (01:16:34):
This is an incredible, incredible, horrible loss for them.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
They were very close with the route, They were very
close with the victims. The victims would want them to live.

Speaker 7 (01:16:44):
Their life exactly exactly and live them without any distractions
right outside world. And hopefully this starts a new chapter
for them specifically.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Yeah, I hope so too. It's a complicated thing. We
had Whitney Galloway, who we mentioned last night our hero.

Speaker 7 (01:17:01):
It's because you know, she came on the podcast the
Idaho Massacre to kind of talk about survivor's guilt and
just how intense that is, Like it's a Postmark PARTU.
I would assume I don't know what that experience is like,
but you know, there's a level of emotional distress that
happens thereafter that kind of can't be put into words,

(01:17:22):
I'm told. So again, I hope everybody just offers some grace.

Speaker 5 (01:17:27):
Yeah, well okay, I mean, shall we go with heavy hearts?

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
Should we go to one more talk back?

Speaker 21 (01:17:36):
Let's do it, Hi, ladies, It's Stephanie from Bama. Much
love to you all, Sousy Banks. First, I just want
to say I know that some of these topics can
be extremely heavy at time. Y'all are doing an awesome
job and I'm so glad that I had y'all to
listen to five nights of my week. Yes, I used
to work on the Ambulus's primary and I'm on one response,

(01:17:56):
so I understand the gravity of what y'all are reporting on.
And I love how y'all can find something to laugh
about even after a pretty heavy topic. Finding a way
to laugh about things helps me mentally. Anyways. Second thing, nobody, girl,
I am so ready for you to watch the new
Delphi murders documentary. I want to hear from me about

(01:18:20):
on this. This would also be an awesome doc for
your crime club. Anyways, I love you, ladies, Love the
show and shout out to Taha love.

Speaker 8 (01:18:29):
You and.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
Oh shoot, first of all, thank you so much, thank
you so much, because you know what, this is a
very heavy and sometimes I think, you know, you know,
we're talking about all these really dark things, and I
know that when I kind of feel a certain way,
I get nervous and I laugh. It's just how I

(01:18:52):
do instead of crying or you know, I'll laugh, and
I think it's just a reaction. And you know, we all,
every single person takes us very seriously and our hearts
are always heavy. So if we do laugh about something,
I hope that nobody thinks it's disrespectful in any in
any capacity. But this is so hard to talk to

(01:19:13):
about five nights a week, right, right, ladies, Like this
is just a really difficult thing to talk about. So
we have to find some lightheartedness throughout this, you know.
And plus it's kind of a Debbie downer to be
listening to a show for two hours, five nights a week,
where you know, we're not throwing some kind of dark
humor in there.

Speaker 7 (01:19:31):
Right And by the way, for somebody who works in
the business too, by the way, that is a great
talk back.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Shout out to Taha and body.

Speaker 7 (01:19:39):
I'm dying to see this documentary too, and to talk
to you about it. So should we like add that
in Courtney's facocta party club?

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
What are we doing here? She Courtney always calls it
a book club, which we know it is not my
person even haven't waiting one?

Speaker 7 (01:20:00):
Can we in the middle club?

Speaker 12 (01:20:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
I appreciate you in the middle of your move, and
we didn't want to start it without.

Speaker 7 (01:20:05):
You, and I couldn't get behind. I missed the whole
cruise ship one. I know this story and I studied it,
but I didn't catch it. The move killed me. But no,
it didn't kill me. It gave me life.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
I take that. I take it back.

Speaker 7 (01:20:19):
But let's let's do the Delphi as the first thing
in this unnamed body club.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
What do we call it? We're gonna We're gonna just.

Speaker 7 (01:20:32):
Give me a stink eye? Wait, what's is?

Speaker 5 (01:20:34):
I think much to come tomorrow night for everyone? There's
much in the works on the name of this club.
So the work, yes much, so listen and it's come
in to a close so quickly. By the way, that
music also makes us all crazy.

Speaker 7 (01:20:48):
I wish you could see everybody is dancing hits air
at this point, everybody, even in Taha, the boys, Sam
and Adam, everybody had their.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Hands up Sam's break dancing.

Speaker 7 (01:20:58):
It's not like really he warms my heart anyway, thank
you for all the calls. By the way, we were
just discussing the last talk back. So apparently we can't
do del Fi the new documentary as our first like
kickoff to whatever. This crime Watch Crime Watch show is
no Courtney, you just named it. That's not all. Now

(01:21:20):
you're throwing your vote.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
It's we just can't.

Speaker 7 (01:21:29):
But no, so body is saying we cannot do it
because she's too much of an expert on it, and
this is saying that's not the word you want to use.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
But you are an expert on it. I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
It's just that I feel like, if I mean listen,
I feel like if we were talking about it, I'd
be like, that's not what happened.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
And yeah, I would be like, that's not how because
you know whatever, Because.

Speaker 7 (01:21:48):
I understood it's too close to home it and I
talking about pun or any of us about I. So
we have to find one that is kind of a
neutral documentary for all of us to watch together, all
of our crime club together. We're going to watch look

(01:22:09):
at House Clapping right now, and we're going to name it,
and we're going to create a swell and we're all
going to watch together. By the way, I haven't had
a TV for a week and it's the.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
Death of me and it's unimaginable.

Speaker 7 (01:22:23):
Lifeline. So I'm dial mayn coaches. I am ready to rumble.
So once we name the club.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
We're going to talk about that tomorrow. About tomorrow on
the show Counting the Minutes. Yes, you and I are
going to talk about the show. We're going to name it,
and then we're gonna pick up. We're going to maybe
you know what if you have if you have time,
leave us a talk back or call call us and
leave us a voicemail and give us a recommendation of
what documentaries, what hot new ones that he haven't seen

(01:22:52):
yet that we can watch together and talk about on
the show, I think, And if you have.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
A book for the name of it.

Speaker 7 (01:22:58):
Apparently Courtney Armstrong already gave us hers Crime Watch, which,
by the way.

Speaker 5 (01:23:03):
I was just describing the process that was an accidental
crime Watch is not I think, yeah, says at all
frankly way to be this way, to be so smart.

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
So here's talkback real quick.

Speaker 16 (01:23:14):
I'm just wondering for Stephanie, what is the difference between
a megalomaniac and a narcissist and how does that present
in crime? And maybe for a future episode you ladies
behavioral scientist on to talk about the different personalities. I

(01:23:35):
would love that, I would crime anyways, looking forward to
listening tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
Oh that was so great. We should have a great idea.

Speaker 7 (01:23:44):
Yes, we're gonna listen him in hand right now, we
are writing that down. I think that is no megal maniac.
Jim Jim Clementy. I've interviewed him as.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Well on this podcast.

Speaker 7 (01:23:56):
He's great, he's the best actually, So noting that, and
then Courtney, do you want to give you a definition
for the megalomaniac versus the narcissist.

Speaker 5 (01:24:04):
Yes, megalomaniac is one of my favorite words. So narcissist
to who everyone talks about a lot. It's that's kind
of you know, it's very self centered and on your
personal achievements and you need a lot of you have
a lot of self importance. And then the megalomaniac is
a more severe and also it's delusions of power and

(01:24:28):
it's more really like you are the center of the world.

Speaker 7 (01:24:32):
Sin yes, Manson would be an example.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Yeah, megalomaniac. Yeah, it's just it's you know, someone who.

Speaker 5 (01:24:41):
So that's that's the main difference, is the power hungry
and delusion.

Speaker 7 (01:24:47):
But let's do that great talk back. By the way,
what a great night. Thank you everything for all of
the great parts of that was so much fun. And
here's the team. We're crazy about you, crazy about you girls.
We'll be back tomorrow, so big headline to come. Make
sure you tune in tomorrow. If you miss any of
the show, catch the podcast. This is true Crime tonight.
We're talking true crime all the time. Goodnight bye, good night,