Tennessee’s Unusual Upcoming Execution and the Insulin Overdose Murder Trial

Forensic expert and host of Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan, joins for another Scientific Sunday to discuss what we can learn from the forensic information released about Celeste Rivas Hernandez — the shocking case behind Tennessee’s unusual (and controversial) upcoming execution. Joseph also answers listener talkbacks. Later, Tyrese Gibson’s recent animal cruelty charges, the tragic murders of two New Jersey teenagers by a fellow classmate, and the ongoing Texas murder trial of Sarah Hartsfield, who is accused of killing her fifth husband. Tune in for all the details. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I am
here of course with Courtney Armstrong and Body Movin.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Ladies.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I hope you had a great weekend because we made
it to Scientific Sunday.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
Whoo, we're here.

Speaker 5 (00:40):
Joseph and I were just talking about kinetic energy in
the brand like right before the show.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
We really are into Scientific Sunday here and the brains
are real.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
So nobody listening had a fantastic a fantastic weekend as well.
Either way, We're glad you're here because it's Sunday, October fifth,
and we have a stack night of headlines. Joseph Scott
Morgan is joining us for the first couple of segments
to talk all things about the David pop Star case
and of course Celes Revas and if there's been some

(01:09):
new developments but also some some developments that we're not
quite sure about that we're glad that Joseph is here
to kind of unpack with us. Also, that developing story
in New Jersey about this seventeen year old allegedly ran
down two teens for vengeance, which is horrifying again developing

(01:30):
allegedly allegedly allegedly and jury's election for accused husband killer
Sarah Hartsfield has begun and that is a trial we'll
be following very closely. So, ladies, Joseph, let's go body,
You take it first.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Yeah, David, So while you know, Joseph joins us every Sunday,
and so here's what we do.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
We gather up all the stuff all.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Week long and we save it, right, we save it
for when we have Joseph in Today's that day with David,
while Joseph was away, a couple things came out right,
the idea that she wasn't pregnant. They did some sort
of test and determined that Celes Revas Hernandez was not pregnant,

(02:16):
nor was she pregnant for the previous year. And we
talked about it a little bit, and I had kind
of opined that, oh, well, maybe her body is in
a much better state than we maybe originally anticipated. That
they were able to do this hormonal test, and we
figured today would be a great day to talk about
that test and what it means, if anything, with Joseph. Joseph,

(02:39):
what can you tell us about this pregnancy test, this
hormonal test that they do.

Speaker 6 (02:43):
Yeah, So, if it is in fact a hormonal test,
there are certain hormones that the female body produces in
the midst of pregnancy, you know, kind of the lead up,
if you will, fortifying not only the mom but also
the all is to be born. But here's what I'm thinking,
and I think that we might have a clue here

(03:06):
relative to condition of body. During my time working in
the Morgue, and I spent a lot of years working
in there, doing close to seventh assistant and close to
seven thousand autopsies, we commonly did not do hormonal testing.
And what we did, however, is what's called a gross examination.

(03:27):
And gross is not in the terms of like ooh,
that's gross. Gross means you're taking an overall view of
the human remain where you visualize. So the reason I
think that this is key is that if in fact
her body was intact to the point where her you
could visualize her uterus, which is something that we standard

(03:50):
and every autopsy involved in female remains, they would have
been able to deduce obviously that she may have been
carer a child. And secondly, I think that a lot
of this is going to rest in the lining of
the uterus, which we take extensive sections of at autopsy,

(04:13):
and let me kind of explain how this works. So
you'll have these changes at a cellular level when mamas
are trying to nourish the baby in utero, and when
these sections are taking the actual interior, the lining of
the uterus changes, and so those sections would have been taken.

(04:37):
My suspicion is that even if she was without child,
they would have done these histological examinations, which merely means tissue,
and if there were no changes there, then that would
be evidence that she had not been pregnant. Perhaps they
did hormonal testing, but if she is composed to any
point that those tests are rather sensitive, so I don't

(04:58):
know if they would be back.

Speaker 7 (05:00):
We're talking about fourteen year olds. Less Revus Hernandez. She
was found deceased in the front trunk of a tesla.
That tesla was registered to singer David. This was the
last month and it happened after nearly seventeen months of
her initial disappearance. As of right now, the Los Angeles
County Medical Examiner has deferred determining the cause of death,

(05:22):
so the manner of death is also pending toxicology and
further forensic analysis, and the investigation is still open right now.
It has not been officially deemed a homicide. And Joseph
Scott Morgan, our forensic expert, is of course filling us
in on details about the implications of Celes revs Hernandez.

(05:43):
That it was publicly displayed that she was not pregnant
and hadn't been.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
And is that rumor? Like where did this start in
the first place. I mean, again, it just kind of
speaks to the nature of things getting leaked or said
that can really confuse or interrupt an investigation. Again, and
family members they watched the news as well, So imagine
a loved one is being spoken about and you're hearing
details that are unverified, and you know that's important stuff,

(06:11):
and that really does shift the narrative in a lot
of ways.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, and you have to be careful and what you
talk about, Like I think early on everyone was trying
to figure out, you know, is David involved, and if
he is, what was the motive? And I think one
of the things that people were saying was that seless
was probably pregnant, right, And then it came out that
they found this infant in the hills of Hollywood, which
turned out not to be true, thank God, by the

(06:34):
way for that not right, And that was another guard.
So what happens is I think a lot of times
people do this for engagement, right, Like It's like it's
kind of like rage bait a little bit.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Right.

Speaker 5 (06:46):
If I post the most crazy story and get enough
clicks and likes on it, I'm gonna get you know,
maybe some Facebook stars or some super chats on YouTube,
whatever it ends up being, to continually talk about this.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
That's what I think. I don't know for sure, but.

Speaker 6 (07:01):
Oh, can I address that just for one second? You know,
obviously the world that I'm in, I address some of
the most heinous things that you can possibly imagine, all Right,
And with that said, people have no shame as to
what they will say. It doesn't matter to them what
kind of harm this could do to this young She's

(07:23):
a girl. As far as I'm concerned. You can try
to argue that with me. I don't really care. She's
a child, all right, and it doesn't matter. You know
what they might say if they can get this these cliques,
if it was their family, you know, their back would
be all up in the air over this. And really
it's really quite horrible. We just don't have all of

(07:46):
the dadda yet, and it's very frustrating for somebody with
a scientific mind. I begin to kind of pass judgment
on these sorts of things until you have all of
the data.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
It's also human behavior to want to fill in the
blanks a little bit, right, even if it's not manipulative
or ill intended. People are curious and they want to
help find answers, and they're theorizing, and then next thing,
somebody else takes that theory and says it as if
it's so, and then that becomes the clickbait and so
on and so on and so on.

Speaker 5 (08:15):
Well, I think that kind of goes in with like
this whole dismemberment situation. So early on we learned that
Celeste or they had found a decomposing body in the
front of this tesla, and then it was dismembered, right,
and so on and so forth. That's been the narrative
that we've heard and pretty much every news article since then.

(08:37):
But when you look that information, we've never really heard
that from police themselves. There's been no police statement about it,
there's been no press conference confirming it.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
It started.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
It looks like with TMZ and or the New York
Times reported that a law enforcement official told them that
in the front of this car in a bag was
ahead and a Torso so therefore, when you hear that,
you know, you, oh my gosh, just remembered. But in
the same article it also says she was wearing black leggings.
So there's a lot of like information that doesn't make it.

(09:12):
What an interesting what an interesting point? Yeah, it's very interesting.
So you kind of wonder at this point, was she
really dismembered or was it just maybe somebody, this one
law enforcement source that's talking to both you know, outlets,
maybe relaying misinformation and we don't know because we haven't
heard anything from the police.

Speaker 6 (09:32):
Yeah, that's very intriguing. There's a termined law that refers
to and this is a criminal law that says nothing
to do with forensics. I love this term though. It's
called in cohed offense. That means that you haven't finished
the deed yet, or you're planning to do it and
it doesn't come to fruition. As I had mentioned previously,
many times people that engage in this post mortal activity

(09:56):
with remains, they do not understand what they're undertaking. The
fact that first off, she could be clothed, and that
you still use the term dismemberment, it's within the realm
of possibility, because remember, even if you remove one tiny

(10:16):
digit off of a finger, that's still an act of dismemberment.
Dismemberment is actually an action word. And so it's interesting
that the police might say this, but it would be
far more interesting if La County Corner were to say it,
or some affiliated scientists that's been contracted, like an anthropologist

(10:38):
for instance, that could hold forth on this and say, yes,
this is what we have evidence of. But that hasn't
been completely borne out in the news at this point.
So wherever PMZ or New York Times is getting this
data from, what else do you have to back this
up with before and again you're taking this out there

(10:59):
and put in it to the public. Now the national
conversation is talking about he's got this tesla with a
body in the front, which n oh. By the way,
the body is in plastic. It's been dismissed.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
A torso and ahead is a very specific image.

Speaker 6 (11:19):
It really really is. Yeah, the fact that they mentioned
head and torso, that implies that the rest of the
peripheral body is missing. It's the case. I don't know, but.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Feeling that way, everybody who's listening to this and here's
that I would imagine would have that same queue. And
it's an assumption in that regard, right.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
The New York The La Times article goes on to
quote the medical examiner who says she appears to have
been deceased inside the vehicle for an extended period of
time before being found. We are unable to termine her age, race,
or ethnicity. The scedent was wearing a tube top, black
leggings size small. She has wavy black hair. Jewelry includes

(12:06):
yellow metal stud ear rings and yellow metal chain bracelet.
So that to me, you know, she's wearing a bracelet, Okay,
she's wearing leggings, like it implies.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
To me that that she's whole. Like, I don't know.
I could be wrong, I could be right.

Speaker 6 (12:21):
No, that's a great pick up. And plus they said,
what was it you said, body is about rings? She
had rings?

Speaker 5 (12:26):
Yeah, no metal stud ear rings.

Speaker 6 (12:30):
Metal stud ear rings, so.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
That a yellow metal bracelet.

Speaker 6 (12:33):
Yeah, And okay, well she's got a bracelet and she's
got ear rings. Guess what's not missing, right, the ears
in the wrist. So we can draw upon that. That
doesn't mean it's something that's not to the exclusion of
everything else. It could in factually mean that there's still
something there. However, you know, you've got these various elements
that come along, and maybe you know an individual that

(12:54):
might choose to engage in this behavior just got in
the middle of it and say, hey, look too much
for me do this is this is more than I've
signed on for at this point.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
Sure.

Speaker 5 (13:05):
Now it's important to know though that later we've gotten
another statement for the medical examiner that says this, and
it's really important. The Los Angeles County Medical Examiner has
not yet determined the cause or manner of Miss Reeves
Hernanda's death. As such, it remains unclear whether there is
any criminal culpability beyond the concealment of her body. Now
in California, like dismembering a body is a felony and

(13:29):
its abuse of a corpse. It's much more than just
criminal culpability beyond the concealment.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
Of her body.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
Like to me, this all reads like she was not
dismembered because the criminal culpability would be so far beyond
the concealment of her.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Body exactly, Which is why I think we're all so
you know, extra extra, extra enraged. You know, they're either way,
even just hearing about remains just kind of this is.

Speaker 6 (14:00):
Yeah, there's actually in several states, there's actually a statute
that talks about the abuse of a corpse, right, okay,
And many times with abuse of the corpse, it's not
merely taking a body and you're concealing a death. Abuseive
abuse of a corpse has to do with are you,
lack of a better term, are you desecrating the remains

(14:21):
to the point where you're altering them in some way?
And forgive me, I don't know that much about you know,
California state statute, but I'm just saying that's kind of
a nationwide.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Right, it's kind of everywhere.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, it's kind of global, and even in Canada, I know,
for sure. I don't know poor miss Reeves Hernandez, she's
just a little girl. I mean, she's fourteen years old,
and hopefully hopefully we'll get some answers from the medical
examiner Sue. As of right now, David the pop singer
has not been named a suspect.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
That's right, well, listen stay with us.

Speaker 7 (14:49):
Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan is here for the rest
of the hour for Scientific Sunday, and an execution date
has been set for Christoph Pike. She's the first Tennessee
woman on death row in two hundred whole years. That
and a lot more Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been
talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here
with Courtney Armstrong, Body Move In and Joseph Scott Morgan,
forensics expert also the host of body Bags, the hit podcast.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
So we're doing Scientific Sundays with.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
The real deal, and there's of course way too much
too unpack, so hopefully we'll get through it in this
first hour because also later in the show we're going
to be talking about the killer, the killer wife allegedly
who poisoned her husband. Jury selection on that has been
starting and is underway, so we'll be following that closely.
And then this execution potentially happening in Tennessee, the first

(16:00):
time a female inmate to be put to death in
Tennessee in two hundred years. So there's plenty to unpack there, Courtney,
do you want to.

Speaker 7 (16:09):
Start absolutely and I want to start with a trigger warning,
please please if you are, you know, within earshot of
a child or this is violent, this is violent.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
So trigger warning on that, good warning.

Speaker 7 (16:23):
But Krista Gale Pike, she's a forty nine year old
woman and she was convicted of a torture killing of
a classmate back in nineteen ninety five. She's scheduled to
be executed September thirtieth of next year, and that makes
her the first woman to be executed in Tennessee in
over two hundred.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Years, So one hundred years.

Speaker 7 (16:44):
Yeah, and after we're going to go through everything with Joseph.
But there's some really interesting Tennessee execution facts actually that I.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Was able to find.

Speaker 7 (16:53):
So back in January ninety five, Krista Pike was only
eighteen years old and she murdered nineteen year old Colleen Slemmer.
This happened in a wooded area. It was near the
University of Tennessee campus. So this woman, Krista Gail Pike,
lured the victim there with her boyfriend to Darryl Ship,
as well as her friend Shadala Peterson. This all happened

(17:17):
allegedly due to jealousy over a romantic rivalry of all things.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
The attack lasted up.

Speaker 7 (17:23):
To an hour and included ritualistic mutilation, and that led
to Pike's death sentence in nineteen ninety six. So, Joseph,
you brought this case to our attention. Do you want
to fill us in a little bit more?

Speaker 6 (17:37):
Yeah, I'd love to. We previously covered this case on
bodybags Dave and I have, and the reason I'd covered
it previously is that she was wanting to get off
of death row. And like you guys, I had not
heard of this case. There was another kind of infamous
case up in Knoxville that is arguably one of the
most brutal, involving a couple, and I can go into

(17:58):
that some other tom, but this closely rivals that I'd
never seen the like of it. So when I read
read the initial information about the case going back many
many months ago, maybe a couple of years ago. When
we initially covered it, I was like, oh my lord,
I've never heard of this. And now this past week,
Tennessee has stated that they have scheduled execution for her,

(18:23):
and not just that, but also one of her confederates
that she was involved in. He's up for parole, his
first parole hearing, and it just it shocked me to
my course. I wanted to say something else about it.
That's why I brought it to you, guys, because from
a forensic standpoint, we have desks that I have worked

(18:43):
as an investigator and also those that I've covered where
people don't linger. There is a bit to this because Court,
you hit it right on the button. You said it
took an hour, and they showed up with Colleen having
lured her. And I love the term lured because that
show's intent. They lured her to this location and it

(19:06):
is part of the youth campus. As a matter of fact,
it's an old, abandoned steam plant. It looks like something
you would see in the first Batman that Tim Burton did.
It's got that kind of dark I think, very ominous looking,
and no one else is going to be around. They
purposed that they knew that no one would see what

(19:27):
they were doing. And according to statements, Colleen was nervous
going back there because there had been an ongoing friction
between these two and they all lived together. They're part
of the job Core program, and they would eat together
and these sorts of things. I think that the idea
that that Colleen was after the boyfriend Billie ruse. Many

(19:52):
people believe that there was no relationship. They were just
all friends together and that Colleen was the victim. She
was identified probably the weakest person in the group. And
this perpetrator, Christa, I don't know, for a lack of
a better term, she's a sadist and that's born out
in her activities leading up to this, you know, and

(20:14):
how they lured her there. They showed up prepared. I'll
go ahead and tell you guys right now. And I'm
glad you said the trigger warning because they showed up
with two things in their possession. They showed up with
a box cutter and a meat cleaver.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 6 (20:30):
And as Christa was perpetrating, As she was perpetrating this
harm upon her, the boyfriend, alleged boyfriend, was corralling her,
dragging her back the entire time as she's bleeding for
her life.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
Oh this is your crime.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
Tonight on iHeartRadio, I'mbody Moving with Courtney Armstrong, Joseph Scott Morgan,
and Stephanie Leidecker, we are talking about Crystal Christa Gail Pike,
the first woman to be executed in Tennessee in over
two hundred years, and we want to hear from you.
Give us a call eighty eight thirty one crime or
hit us on the talk about on the iHeartRadio app. Joseph,
it sounds like you said it. This took an hour.
It sounds like they were kind of torturing her and

(21:08):
playing games with her a little bit. Would you would
you say that's correct?

Speaker 6 (21:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that that's the accurate body.
And there's another word that I've begun to use quite
a bit. It particularly involving cases like this, and it's
not just the alluring to bring them there, but it's
also this idea of menacing. And we don't really think
about that word a lot. We think about you know,

(21:32):
we might think about it kind of peripherally. Somebody might
include it in a conversation. Very menacing, look, menacing again
is an action word you're menacing somebody. And that's where
we go into this kind of tortuous activity that was
involved in Colleen's death, that it gets to the point

(21:53):
where they are haunting her and menacing her, to the
point where I can only imagine probably by the end
she's begging to be put out of her misery because
it's so so torturous and horrible at this point in
Tom Wow, Joseph.

Speaker 7 (22:11):
So, my understanding is that over the course of this
time a box cutter was used as well as a
meat leaver, as well as some taking part of the
skull as a later souvenir. My question as Ideas says,
that is, what does it show as a forensic examiner
when someone or in this case, you know, three people

(22:32):
bring multiple weapons.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Is that unusual?

Speaker 6 (22:36):
No, it's not, particularly if you've got a premeditative event.
This is something again that goes to you know, we
already talked about location, right, and we talked about how
it's kind of an abandoned area. It's partially on the
UT property. It's an area that most people, you know,
if you just look at the structure seeing I'm not
going in there, of course, it might attract some types

(22:56):
of people, but they would be aware of it. Something's
pre chosen at that point in time. Then they say,
what do we need. Well, let's see what we can
get our hands on. Oh, I know a box cutter
and a meat cleaver, so you show up with that
in tow. They had actually lured her there under the
idea that they were going to go back there and
smoke weed. And literally, and I'm not trying to be

(23:17):
flippant by saying this, they had enticed her back there
with the idea that they were going to bury the hatchet.
And boy did they ever thought they were going to
call peace here, because these two young women had been
at odds with one another. And that's why she was questioning.
You know, you've got an account on the part of Krista,

(23:39):
by the way she testified to this or or made
comments about it, that they're going to go back here
and that they're going to make peace, and oh, by
the way, come on back, you can smoke smoke a
joint with us, and this sort of thing. You know, her,
her spoty senses are up at this point in time,
and that's when they set upon her and just did

(23:59):
this this horrible thing to her.

Speaker 5 (24:01):
Christ was she like the ringleader because she's the only
one that got capital murder?

Speaker 4 (24:05):
And was she?

Speaker 8 (24:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (24:06):
Yeah, And isn't that fascinating? You know she's because that's
that says a lot to the mindset of the prosecutor,
I think, the state, if you will. They had zeroed
in on her, and a lot of that goes goes
to her activity post attack, because first off, they use
these instruments to desecrate her remains and probably desecrate her

(24:32):
in life. To a pentagram is involved. Oh my gosh,
I'll put it to you that way. That was left
behind and obviously the attack with me clearer. But here
here's the other thing. The utility that they used to
end her life turned out to be a piece of
broken asphalt. They had gotten everything down except to that

(24:52):
barbaric element at that point in time. And as this
goes on, at the end of this, Christa retrieves a souvenir. Well,
the souvenir the next day, when they're at job Corps
and they're all eating lunch together is displayed proudly by
Christa in the lunch room. Look what I have, And

(25:15):
as it turns out, yeah, piece, it's a piece of
external table of the skull, and of course everybody there
is like, well, where's Colleen. Where's Colleen? Well, they begin
to put these you know, two and two together at
this point in Tom doesn't take a rocket scientist, right,
and so they put these two things together. Christa is
displaying the scene. Colleen is missing, and I think that

(25:37):
they probably affected an arrest on all three of these individuals.
I think I'll go ahead and give the benefit of doubt.
I'll say within forty eight hours. I actually think it
was like within thirty six hours.

Speaker 7 (25:47):
Wow, and body, you asked about her being the ringleader.
And what we do know is that to Darryl's ship,
he was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility
of parol. Going back to your earlier point, Joseph, that
he will be eligible literally next month.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
For parole next and we'll watch that, correct.

Speaker 7 (26:07):
And then the third person, Shadala Peterson, she cooperated with authorities.
She testified against Christa Pike, and she ultimately received six
years probation after pleading guilty to accessory after the fact,
which I think tells us a lot about her participation
in this incident.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
Right it does, And it's a very sad commentary. I think.
I mean prosecutors are going to prospect, that's what they do,
and they're trying to go after that individual. However, in
my estimation, if you're absent humanity at that point, that
you're acting and can she admits that she's acting as
a lookout. Okay, so what are you acting as a

(26:45):
lookout for? Are you a war zone where you're looking
for the enemy approaching. No, you're acting as a lookout
so that your friends can torture, torture and kill this
young woman who is and listen, people that wind up
in job corps. God bless this program. I think it's

(27:06):
a fantastic program that's been around for a long time.
People that quit school, people that don't feel like they
have any hope in the future. It gives them opportunity
to learn technical training or some specific job. They can
go out and they can take care of themselves. Right,
It's a great program. Colleen was just trying to make
it in this world, like I think probably everybody on
this panel is. Through our lives. We've just tried to

(27:28):
make everybody. All of our friends are all try to
make it in this world. They are and all of
a sudden, these people descend upon you, and it's not
just like a quick death. This is a torturous, painful
death that they subject to this poor woman. And that
the lady that's acting, she's a grown woman. Now this
acting has a lookout. You're facilitating this and that's all

(27:50):
she And of course they know they guaranteed her testimony
as a result of it. And it's one of those
moments where you know, you take the good with the
bad at that point, right.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
That's a lot of bad to be had.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
And obviously we also know that you know, Krista Pike,
you know, feels very badly for her behavior. She says
that you know, she was guilty and is just you know,
super ashamed for obviously this hideous crime.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Yeah, she was eighteen or nineteen, when did she did this?
Now she's thirty eight or no, forty.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Forty nine, forty nine, she's forty nine years old.

Speaker 7 (28:27):
And her attorneys many times reapproached the court because of
her age to try and say, hey, let's dial back
on the sentencing.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
But no, lock huh no.

Speaker 7 (28:39):
And in Tennessee, should this come to bear because a
lot of times letho any kind of injections or anything
are delayed. But in Tennessee, an inmate can choose electrocution
specifically if a crime occurred before nineteen ninety nine. And
I just thought that was an interesting fact because anybody
ever I owse that I don't know. Lethal injection is

(29:01):
the primary manner of execution in the state.

Speaker 6 (29:03):
But that's yeah, And Timnessee is a single drug. You've
heard of cocktails, Yeah, lethal injection. They're not a cocktail state.
They're single drug. It's barbarital and so that can push
you into a coma. It's a single injection. And so
that's you know, I don't know what you know, it's
kind of picked your poison, I guess, or to the case,

(29:26):
I b it'll be interesting to see if she if
she does that, right.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
We have several talkbacks for you, Joseph Scott Morgan, we
must say, so we're going to hit those two. And
by the way, later in the show, we're going to
be covering this wife who's accused of poisoning her husband.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
And then also you know this young boy. This is
a developing story in New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
A seventeen year old teenager allegedly allegedly allegedly ran down
two teen girls on their bicycles, and we're going to
cover that a little bit as well. And listen, we
are not glossing over the fact that Diddy was oh yeah, sentenced,
but we're going to do a real deep dive on
that tomorrow on Monday, Secret serve as Sam is going

(30:11):
to be here, so just as a heads up, So
that's tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
But anyway, back to Joseph.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
We've been getting a lot of calls for you, Joseph,
so it's great to talk about forensics.

Speaker 6 (30:23):
Friend.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
You're talking about That's what I call them.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
I mean that with the utmost respect.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
By the way, Okay, govern so good, Hi, I love
you guys.

Speaker 8 (30:39):
You're awesome. This is about the funeral homes in Colorado.
There was also in Brooklyn, New York. I don't remember
what year, but the funeral home was in cahoots with
a dentists and they were selling body parts and changing
causes on death certificates so it wouldn't say that somebody

(30:59):
was cancerous and they could tell them and they will
making all kinds of money.

Speaker 5 (31:04):
Another dentist this dentists, I mean, this is not going
on with Colorado dentistists.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
However, by the way that that accent.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Right, Yes, yes, I.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Love it so much. I like lean in in a
way I can't just you guys did perk up a
lot when you heard her.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
You both heard screams go New York go. Sorry we
didn't catch your name, but excellent talkback Joseph.

Speaker 6 (31:32):
Yeah, yeah, it is, isn't it?

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (31:35):
Yeah? You think about you know how how and listen
here here's the thing. Most people out there, I don't
like to think about that. Now. They'll talk about other
people's deaths, but they don't want to talk about their
own death and they don't think about what goes on
many times, or that there could be some kind of
malfeas that's going on, you know within one of these

(31:57):
organizations that listen, they handle them a precious thing in
our life, and that's that's our loved ones that have
passed on, right, And people throw around the term sacred trust.
That's truly and it's heartbreaking, you know, because of these
a lot of these cases that are out there, and
there's a lot of stuff out there that I have
yet to cover. I promise you I will, because I'm

(32:20):
an advocate for the dead, Yes you are, and the
pain that's left in the weight of these and you
have to understand, you know, how when does it get
to the point where your need for money trumps the
pain that is going to be visited upon those that remain.
You know, the dead are no longer feeling pain. But

(32:41):
you know, if you're parsing up a body, for instance,
and selling off the remains piece by piece to parties unknown.
Some of these things have gone overseas over the years,
if you can imagine that, and you know a lot
of people they get off into the organ harvest thing,
you know, I've heard about that, you know, where they
take people that are passed down on benches in city

(33:03):
parks and all that.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
We wake up in a bath of your kidneys.

Speaker 6 (33:06):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard a lot of that, and I
don't know how much to believe that, but we do
have evidence that people have, you know, and this is
not something new under the sun. This is something that's
gone on for years and years. And I recommend anybody
that is really fascinated by by this idea of what
happens to human remains over a period of time. I
did an entire episode on grave robbers at one point

(33:28):
in time back in the eighteen hundreds because it was
it was actually illegal for years and years in America
and in Europe to do dissections on human remains. And
so if you've got doctors that are in training and
they've never done a gross anatomical dissection, you know, you're
I don't know about you, guys. I want my doctor

(33:48):
to understand what's underneath the hood, all right, and so,
and even back then they understood that, is there still
a need to go out and seek out seek out
human remains? Do that in these modern times. I mean,
let's face it, you can do in an academic setting.
You can actually do a digital autopsy. I'm not saying
that's something we're going to do in forensics, but I'm

(34:10):
saying you can digitize remain and actually do the dissection there.
So what's your point here? You know, why are you
doing this?

Speaker 7 (34:17):
Just to clarify, make sure I'm understanding, Joseph, is that
like the dentist, for example, they have a thing where
you can take all of these pictures and then it's
unbelievable three D image of exactly what's happening in your mouth.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Is that what you're talking about that they'll image.

Speaker 6 (34:33):
That way for an Autogoya, there was there was actually
a point when there was actually a point in time
where dentists would use human jaws from the dead. I've
heard about stories over the years where dental schools would
actually use the capitator remains and so the bodies would
be pieced up like that. I don't think that still
goes on. But what I'm saying is it's part of

(34:56):
our history, you know, and you you know at that point,
you know, you have to understand that technology is caught
up with us at this point. So why is it
that you might feel the need to do it. The
only thing I can think of is that either you're
incredibly morbid or you're trying to make a quick butt
at the expense of the dead and their families.

Speaker 5 (35:17):
There's a really famous Rembrandt painting. It's called the Autonomy Lesson.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Yes, beautiful and yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
I'm not saying it right, anatomy, anatomy autonomy. Listen to me.
It's a really famous painting. Yes, and it's all about
like this, right.

Speaker 6 (35:32):
Yeah, they're in the theater though. Yeah, they're in the
theater and they're doing the dissection. Yeah, so beautiful. Everything
I love and brand anyway and everything. And when you
see that, and you've got everybody kind of leaning in
to take a look, and it kind of captures that
moment Tom, that might have been back in the sixteen hundreds.
And this is something that you know, if you have,
if you have the deceased and you're able to do this,

(35:54):
everybody wants to see it.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
Interesting. Well, thank you for that.

Speaker 7 (35:58):
Yes, this is true Crime tonight where we are learning
so much with Joseph Scott Morgan who is joining us
for Forensic Sundays. I'm Courtney Armstrong here as always with
Stephanie Leideker and Body move in. We're responding to a
whole bunch of your talkbacks that were directed specifically to
forensic expert.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Joseph, and we want to hear from you.

Speaker 7 (36:19):
We'd actually love a call eighty eight three to one
Crime or always a talkback, and we have one now.

Speaker 9 (36:25):
About cemeteries and stuff. I do know that in some
areas like New Orleans, because of the humanity they and
the elevation, everything has to be above ground and after
a year and a day they're able to push back

(36:45):
the previous body and put another family member in. That's
what I was told on a tour.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
Ooh, that's interesting. That's our guide, right, is it real?

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (36:57):
I did that to her also, but was way too
boozy any of that.

Speaker 6 (37:03):
Okay, this is what we're going to do. We're all
going to gather in New Orleans, all of us, and
we're going to tour ourselves, all right.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Yeah I love New Orleans and.

Speaker 6 (37:13):
Yeah as well you should. Everybody should love. Yeah, my hometown.
So anyway, big shout out to the Crescent City. So
here's what you're looking at. You've ever been in the
French quarters. She's talking about elevation. If you go right
in front of Saint Louis Cathedral, you can look back
at the river where the levee is. You want to
get a sense of how low the city is, wait
until a tanker ship comes by and it's literally going

(37:35):
by the top of your.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
Heads, above your head, right.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
But yeah, so that gives you an idea. So everything
New Orleans is not supposed to exist like it does.
So it's below the water line. So our dead down
there are buried in above ground crips. And we have
some of those beautiful graveyards you've ever seen. If you
can quite beauty time, the imager love going to cemetery.
So what she's talking about, and this is not unique

(37:58):
in New Orleans. This has been done in family crips
for a long long time. So you lay the body
out on a specific space and then after the body
has reduced will say that down to a sufficient level,
the actual remains are pushed back into an oshuary that's
behind there kind of falls down, and then the new

(38:19):
remains are placed on top. Now, this is going to
vary from cemetery. You have people that have mausoleums that
have been owned by families for years and years, and
they have dedicated spaces where the actual casket will be
placed onto that shelf. But that's essentially what she's talking about.
And I've talked to people that have gone back into
the aushwaries before and or have put themselves into a

(38:42):
position if you can imagine climbing into one of these
things and looking down and visualizing any kind of skeletal
remains that might be trenched out down there in the background.
But yet the efforts that you have to make in
certain locations with the dead, they're dictated by the environment,
you know, and that's the reality of living in that environment.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
In particularly, do you guys know where you're going to
be buried. I'll be cremated.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
I'll be cremated as well.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
I don't know where I'm going to end up.

Speaker 6 (39:12):
Like I know, I'm not going to end up at
the body form. I have people that reach out to
me to ask me if they know somebody that I
can contact and say, because people actually do donate their
remains to the body form, So that's not that's not
a falsehood, that's a reality. So that's not something I
want to do. Yeah, it's it's not on my bucket list.

Speaker 7 (39:36):
We have a talk back that Tah has indicating might
be well timed.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right now.

Speaker 10 (39:41):
Hi, I'm listening to the podcast about the cremations and
all the dead bodies found. But I wanted to mention
that someone said cremations are more ecologically sound than burials
with faults and for mildehde and whatnot. The truth is
there's another alternative in cremation which takes up as much

(40:05):
fuel as it would cost, almost as burying somebody in
all the you know ways that people traditionally did it
in the earth with a coffin and all that, and
that is called natural burials. Where they simply put you
in the earth, then cover you up and let you
decomposed naturally in the earth. Natural burials.

Speaker 6 (40:26):
Look it up. Yeah, it's a real thing. I've got
two friends, two dear friends of mine, and y'all know
Kimmy my wife. It's actually her friends, but I'm friends
too by marriage. Uh, And they are going to be
they're they're going to be taken to a monastery not
too far away from Atlanta, and they do natural burials

(40:48):
there and the monks do perpetual care.

Speaker 9 (40:51):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (40:53):
Yeah, there's no there's no embalming or anything like that.
You're not placed into uh into a vault, which when
you hear vat vault means the big kind of concrete
box that goes into the ground and then the casketed
body goes down into the vault and the vault is covered.
And that's that's not going to happen. And and one
of the big problems that people that people consider, and

(41:14):
it's a it's a legitimate problem, is over the years
is the idea of uh embalming a body. And then
the worry is is that the chemicals get into the
groundwater and so you have to be very careful with
that sort of thing. That's that's why.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (41:33):
You know, burial spots are supposed to be highly regulated,
and you know, unfortunately we've seen in the news in
the last couple of years, we've seen what appears to
be non regulation. Specifically, I don't want to mention their names,
but I'll say their initials Colorado. Uh. You know, kind
of problem in the in the funeral industry in the

(41:53):
last few years with these sorts of things, and it's
it's absolutely horrific. You know who's monitoring, you know, relative
to this, I think that the natural state is kind
of a fascinating thing that people do. There's actually companies
that will do out there and you guys have probably
heard of these where they'll take bodies and they'll do
these compressions of the bodies and you know, I don't

(42:17):
know how many atmospheres there the bodies are subjected to
and they turn they turned the remains into into diamonds.

Speaker 5 (42:25):
Oh, I've seen this. I looked at this from my mom.
The it's carbon based.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Did they Yeah, they create carbon.

Speaker 5 (42:33):
Beautiful, They create beautiful gems and you can wear these
gems forever and it's basically your loved one.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
I love the idea. I love the idea.

Speaker 7 (42:42):
There are so many more options than my imagination had
conceived of My goodness, Joseph, as always, you open our eyes,
you widen our perspectives, and we thank you so so
much joining us. Listen, everybody go hear more of Joseph
on his fantastic podcast body Bags, and we will talk

(43:04):
to you again soon.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
Yes, so enlightening so much when he's here. You know,
like I just all I have to do is just listen.
That's all you got to do is just listen to Joseph,
and you're suddenly smarter.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
I love it. It is the truth exactly. He is
the one he is.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
And listen, Body Bags is so good. It's on like
what three times a week, right or twice a week?
Three three times a week, times a week. And it's
a lesson in forensics if you if you were really
interested in true crime and forensics, Body Bags is where it's.

Speaker 7 (43:37):
At, absolutely, and where we're at in the next hour
is we're going to fill you in on how actor
Tyrese Gibson is facing animal cruelty charges, as well as
the developing story out of New Jersey seventeen year old
has been arrested. He's charged with two counts of first
degree murder. He drove into two teen girls. It's a

(44:00):
terrible story, really, but stick around. Details to come. True
Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time on this beautiful Sunday. We're
so glad that you're with us. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here
with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in Big thanks to
Joseph Scott Morgan, who spent the first hour with us.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
I already miss him. I already miss him.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (44:34):
I had such a strong reaction to you calling him
forensics daddy, which I know people do, but man, I can't.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
I can't. It is like.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Seeing your brother somebody close of like, yeah, we Fortny
and I like put our ears like not that he
is not such a handsome man of distinct women love him.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, yeah, we like he's.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
Very dapper, like when you see he's just so dapper
and he's got that smooth voice. He's friends and I
mean it with a million for you guys.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
Know, I love Joseph. I mean, of course he's the
great respect. Yeah, he's the greatest. He's the really is.
So thanks to Joseph for.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Being with us, and also if you guys want to
jump in and join the convo eight eight eight three
one crime. Obviously, if you've missed any of the first hour,
you could also catch it after the show as a podcast,
so please do listen.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
There's been a lot going on, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Tomorrow Monday, we're going to do a big unpack of
probably a huge story that we can't really go too
deeply into tonight. Did he he's been sentenced? Oh my goodness,
fifty months? What do we all think about that? We'd
love to hear your thoughts if you want to leave
us some talkbacks. For tomorrow, we'll have Secret Service Sam,

(45:43):
who has been covering the case. I'm exciting since day one.
He was outside during these hearings. We'll be joining us
to do a real, real unpack. And then, you know, Courtney,
you've been following this case in New Jersey, which is
a harrowing one. You have this alleged teen boy who
who ran down to teen girls maybe for vengeance.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
Is it vengeance or a vengeance?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
I'm not sure I'm saying that right, but you get
the drift it's horrible vengeance.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Yeah, it's horrible.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
And then again this woman who was accused of killing
her husband with insulin.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
This is a case. My mother keeps.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Sending me articles about it, so she's really ready for
the deep dive.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
So hopefully that's happening tonight.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
And then also Tyreese, you know, Tyree Gibson, you know,
the big star, you know, not looking great. He was
arrested for for all kinds of things related to his dogs,
and body's going to do us an unpack of that now.

Speaker 5 (46:43):
Yeah, so I'm going to try to get through this
pretty quickly because there's not a lot here. But you guys,
remember Tyrese Gibson. He was, you know, the really handsome man,
and he was in Fast and the Furious that movie, right,
and you know he was in the whole franchise. Well,
he was arrested this weekend. He surrendered to authorities after
and rest warrant was issued in connection to an incident

(47:05):
where his four like canine Corso's, mauled a neighbor's dog
to death in September. This incident sparked public concern due
to previous complaints about the dogs kind of roaming so
these Have you guys ever seen canaine corsos?

Speaker 4 (47:19):
They're huge?

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Are they like mastiffs?

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Yeah, they're they're like.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
If you don't know the difference between breeds, are they're
very big like mastiffs. Beautiful dogs and they're very loyal.
They're I mean, wonderful. I used to babysit and the
family had a mastiff and or a canine corso. And
this dog was so protective and loving, but like roaming freely.
Absolutely not. Well, apparently these dogs had been roaming freely.

(47:47):
Five complaints had been made about the dogs getting out
and roaming the neighborhood. Now that's kind of scary. While
this happened while Tyresee was out of town and he
had somebody watching the dogs. Well, the dogs got out
again and this little dog, this little shit too I think,
was out using the restroom in his backyard and then

(48:09):
the parent, the pet parent, went to go get him
and he wasn't there. He was in the driveway, completely mauled.
So another complaint was called in of obviously, and Tyresee
got animal cruelty charges pressed against him because ultimately, even
though he's not there, he is the one responsible for
the dogs, and he is obviously devastated that this happened.

(48:33):
He's not you know, obviously he's not like a mean guy.
He's not you know, like, you know, cruelty to animals.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
I don't know whatever, but you.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
Know, it's just the way things landed, that this is
cruelty to animals, and he was arrested for it, and
we're gonna find out what happens.

Speaker 7 (48:46):
I do want to agree one quick thing, body, I
do believe it wasn't a shit too. I believe it
was a cavalier King Charles Vaniel named Henry. You're absolutely right.
You're absolutely right. My heart goes out.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
Oh he too.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
It's so stating to lose an animal if you have,
you know, listen, is terrible.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
It's so terrible.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
When I first heard this story and was reading about it,
I was surprised that he was arrested and.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Booked, etc.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Especially if he was not home and it was somebody
who was staying at the house that was maybe being
so irresponsible. So I thought this was legally very interesting.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
I did too, and that's kind of why I wanted
to talk about it. I mean, obviously, you guys know
I have an interest in animal cruelty, right, but I
don't feel like this is the same kind of animal
cruelty that I like to follow along with and track
those people. This just seems like a horrible accident. But
it is worth noting that they were giving him many
warnings to keep his dogs in the house in under control.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
So I think that's kind of a point here, right.

Speaker 7 (49:48):
The police captain said that the dogs were seen more
than five times, and again he was given official warnings
about that, So I think that is where the legalities
come in.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
I think so too.

Speaker 5 (50:00):
So we're going to keep following it and see what
happens because it is interesting legally.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
This is true crime.

Speaker 5 (50:04):
Tonight on iHeartRadio, We're talking true crime all the time.
I'm Boddy Moven and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and
Stephanie Leidecker, and we're going to get into this New
Jersey teen crime. Courtney, tell us what's going on.

Speaker 7 (50:17):
It's developing, so I'll just say that, so we'll give
you all the information we have. But seventeen year old
Vincent Battaloro has been arrested. He's charged with two counts
of first degree murder. Allegedly he drove into and killed
two teenage girls. This is happening amid growing accusations that
he stalked and harassed one of the victims for months.

(50:40):
So this horrible event happened the evening of September thirtieth,
and two close friends, both seventeen year old girls, were
riding their e bikes around, Maria Neotis and Isabelle Salas,
and they were just riding around as teenage girls do.
They were fatally struck by a speeding suv that was

(51:04):
allegedly an intentional hit and run. The entire community understandably
is shaken.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Again.

Speaker 7 (51:11):
Details do continue to emerge, but it appears that the
jeep suv was going over seventy miles in a twenty
five mile per hour zone. So we've been talking, Yeah,
we started talking about this on Friday, Stephanie and I
know this is.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
We've been talking about a lot. Any thoughts on.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
This, Well, it's pretty major because you know, obviously we've
been doing this deep dive into you know, this dark
web and in cells as a podcast that's out now
please download it on the iHeartRadio app. But you know,
one of the producers on that had done an interview
and because we're always talking about sort of the idea

(51:51):
of young men as kind of this lone wolf who
were deciding now at such an extraordinarily young age, to take,
you know, a vengeance against women. Specifically, we're not saying
that this particular seventeen year old in New Jersey is
an in cell.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
However, just for the sake of the conversation.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Of it all, it does check the liboxes, Yeah, it
really does. And you know, Boddy, you were discussing some
of the pregame stuff that he was doing, and you know,
he was hosting really unusual things.

Speaker 5 (52:23):
Right September twenty third, which is a week prior to
this murder basically happened, he did a live stream and
he's like he was saying that you know, the one
the one of the victims, and her mother complained to
the school that he was sending out child inappropriate ChIL

(52:46):
child photos, okay, and that he had a vengeance. That's
where that's where we're getting the vengeance term. He had
a vengeance against her and because of this allegation of
him being involved with inappropriate children photos. Well, apparently he
did this live stream and he was kind of going
on and on about how upset he was about it

(53:08):
and that he had a vengeance and that live he
used a burner phone and called Domino's Pizza and sent
them pizzas to be paid for upon arrival. I think
I mentioned, you guys, this happened to me when don't
have what the cats come out, I was getting pizza
sent to my house. This is a similar tactic that
people do. It's it's anyway, I digress, but yeah, he
and then he went live after the murder and was

(53:32):
just like, oh, it's all drama and I'm a victim
and they're bullying me, like kind of being really glib.

Speaker 4 (53:40):
Yeah, and almost sarcastic, it seemed.

Speaker 6 (53:43):
Again.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
And also, you know, we were kind of noted. We
noted this video and this you know information on Friday,
as Courtney was saying, And now that now that's gone,
you can't even find it on the internet, so you know,
that's interesting. Also likely because this person who who has
been accused is underage. But it really does speak to

(54:03):
this young man, young man culture that you know, I
think we have to keep talking about we do.

Speaker 5 (54:10):
And didn't he get a restraining order on him? The
one of the Yes family.

Speaker 7 (54:14):
There was a restraining order against him. It was Maria's family,
and he had a history of alleged harassment board Maria.
There were police reports of him loitering outside of her home,
and you know, like you said, they did make reports.
Maria made reports to school, to police about the behavior.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
It was threatening.

Speaker 7 (54:37):
It really is a heartbreak and including there were screenshots
that were shared by Maria's ex boyfriend and allegedly they
showed that Battlero was threatening to leak or fabricate explicit
images of Maria in response to being told to please
stop harassing her.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Anes And if someone's on a harass rampage, it's really
hard to rain that in. And I think people who
have ever experienced that. Again, the more the more contact,
the more police get involved, it's almost like feeding the
fire right. It's so you're in a tough spot, you
want to file the restraining order. Suddenly the restraining order

(55:18):
is like adding to the to the vengeance right, or
you want to go through these fuels, and sometimes it
almost fuels it. And I just find that so scary
and confusing. Obviously, get the restraining order, and we're not
suggesting other ways. Yes, sure, you know in this case,
mom and dad are doing all the right things. They're
alerting school, they're reaching out, they're filing a report. And

(55:40):
to what end, this guy's just getting even more nuts.

Speaker 7 (55:45):
Yeah, and just for regarding the victims and their two
seventeen year old girls, they were literally riding their bikes
to go get ice cream with this.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
No, it's true with Maria.

Speaker 7 (55:57):
Yeah, with Maria's family, there are riding bikes to go
ahead and get ice cream when this happened. Funeral services
for Maria Notice were held on Friday, followed by a burial,
and her mother remembered Maria someone who loved deeply, who
gave generously, and who dreamed boldly. And Silas's weight took

(56:20):
place on Saturday. Burial is planned and community members have
just said and as well as their classmates.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
They're in high school.

Speaker 7 (56:29):
Both girls is being kind, talented, full of promise. Maria
was aspiring to be a cosmetologist. Isabella was known for
her singing. So it's just it's a tragedy and it's
a it's a real waste.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (56:43):
So they okay, Okay, So the chain of the timeline
here is September twenty third. He goes live. It's a
week a week prior to the murder. Correct, he goes
live and he's like, I have vengeance against this girl.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Da da da da da.

Speaker 5 (56:59):
Prior to this, they have gotten a restraining order, right
because he was out lurking around. Well, while he was
ordering the Domino's pizza to get sent to her house
that they would have to of course pay for when
it gets delivered. One of his commentars said, oh, you
should drive over there and watch the pizza get delivered,
and he responded and he said no, because she'll just
call the cops again. So obviously he is kind of

(57:22):
admitting that he had been there before and that mom
had called the cops on him for lingering around. So
I wonder how long this was going on. Like the
parents of these poor these portrait, I mean, this is
so awful, but imagine rage that they've got to be feeling.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
Obviously sadness first.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
I imagine unimaginable, unimaginable, but the rage that they must
be feeling too, like they did everything right, They did
everything right.

Speaker 7 (57:46):
Well, the Neoda's family, they usued a public statement. They
called the suspect a coward, a coward of a man,
and said that quote he'd been plotting this attack for months.

Speaker 5 (57:57):
Oh really, well, he said that he when he went
live after the day after Okay, listen to this, you guys.
He gets arrested and then gets out pending investigation, and
there's this big uproar because apparently everyone thinks that he's
like related to the police chief. Well he apparently, and
then you know they were, you know, being nice to

(58:17):
him and let him out. Well, the police chief came
forward and said, listen, he's not my immediate family. This
is he's just been released prior, you know, pending the investigation. Well,
he got he got rearrested the next day, but he
said while he was out, he said, there's more to
the story, and you'll be hearing from me like he's
very arrogant.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
I don't like him at all. I don't like him either.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
If this is accurate in it, it seems like it
is form. And again, this is not even harassment. We're
saying harassment. This is stalking, stalking. So just like little girls,
know that these are little girls. That's not just like, oh,
harassment at school. It's unimaginable that there was not more
that could be done to keep them safe, specifically because

(59:01):
mom and dad did all the right things, as did they,
And I think it's really important that we talk about
it because again, this is the kind of thing that
is happening in people's lives that they're like, Oh, it's
no big deal, Oh we'll get through it. Oh it'll
be fine, And it's real, and I think there needs
to be more discussion about how situations like this could

(59:22):
be handled better.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
It's awful to me. It's so sad on all parts.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
It's so sad.

Speaker 7 (59:29):
We'll continue to follow this story as it evolves, as
more information comes through and details are clarified. Coming up,
we're going to go inside the trial of Sarah Hartsfield,
per Stephanie's mother. It's a story that needs to be
told and we're going to do it. Is it a
murder or a manipulation? Later, we're going to be hearing
directly from you with talkbacks you've been sending, and give

(59:50):
us a call if you want eight to eight threugh
on crime. We'd love to chat with you. Keep it
here at True Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all
the time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. Happy Sunday. We hope you
had a beautiful weekend. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney
Armstrong and body.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Move in and listen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
We're about to unpack this wild case that my mom
keeps sending us articles about of this wife who's accused
of killing her husband with insulin, which is very, very specific.
She's been married a few times, this one and Courtney,
do you want to give us the little setup on

(01:00:41):
this one?

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
On behalf of my mom.

Speaker 7 (01:00:43):
I was gonna say I would do literally anything for
your mother, of course. So jury, jury's selections begun, and
this is going to be a big one to watch.
It's the murder trial of Sarah Hartsfield. She lives in
Texas and is accused of killing her fifth husband, Joseph Hartsfield,
as you said, Stephanie, with insulin. She is a former

(01:01:05):
US Army sergeant and this murder took place in January
twenty twenty three, allegedly by the injection of a massive
amount of insulin, as well as delaying medical help. And
she has a really complex and disturbing history. All you know, again,
this is her fifth marriage. There was a prior fatal

(01:01:28):
shooting of a fiance and a lot of plotting violence,
allegedly against her previous spouses, so.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
That many people to marry her.

Speaker 7 (01:01:39):
Holy moly, Well my thought was this, you know, fiance, Like,
how do you not cross that bridge if you've done
it five times?

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Anyway? Right?

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
Maybe the shooting?

Speaker 7 (01:01:50):
Well maybe so low down on the husband's the first husband,
a man named Titus. He claims that she threatened him
to during their divorce and her asked him for years afterward.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Okay, that's bad. Second husband.

Speaker 7 (01:02:06):
In nineteen ninety six, she was arrested for assaulting that
second husband. Charges were later dropped. Now we're escalating. Husband
number three accused her of urging her fourth husband to
kill his new wife and allegedly provided him with a

(01:02:26):
pistol and issued threats.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Yeah are you kidding? Who are these people? Then? Like,
what the heck? Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:02:35):
And then she has not been charged in connection with
an alleged murder plot that involved her fourth husband, a
guy named David George. So she's not been charged, but
there was a murder plot involving her fourth It seems
like a lot of bad luck follows this woman around.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Yeah, I'll say, or she's bringing a lot of bad
luck to the equation. Mom, great deep dive article because
there's obviously so much to unpack here. So this also
speaks to what we've been kind of touching on a
little bit even in previous segments, the idea of escalation
and how.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
That cannot be overlooked.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
You know, like, listen, I genuinely believe if there is
you know, breath in your lungs, there is time for
change in room for it, and transformation can happen.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
I do, I really really do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
But it doesn't seem as though she seems like a
repeat offender here, right, So oh yeah, this is a
person who's really going from harassment to straight up stocking
to straight up abuse like tempted murder. Yeah, it just
keeps getting worse and worse and worse. And you know,
do we know that these things were ever noted by authorities?

(01:03:45):
You know, it's just an interesting I just think something
for us all to be looking for in the world,
because there is a tipping point sometimes with most of
the stories that we unpack here nightly, there's like one
weird morning or one tip point, and in this case
it seems like there were many.

Speaker 7 (01:04:04):
Right and very sadly, this is actually a little heartbreaking
or it's quite heartbreaking. Her fifth husband, who is at
the center of this murdered trial, Joseph Hartsfield, he'd reportedly
planned to divorce her.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
He had expressed fears that she might try and kill him.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Oh my god, so he knew. Yeah, it was like
a premonition.

Speaker 7 (01:04:24):
Yeah, well, I'm just kind of curious.

Speaker 5 (01:04:28):
You start dating a girl, you start dating someone, right?
Oh you have you ever been married before?

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
I have?

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Oh you have? How many times you've been married? Oh?
I've been married four times? What happened?

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
Well, I tried to kill this one. I tried, like, yeah,
what does she say to you know what I mean? Like,
or she's a really good liar, or she's a really
good lie. Does she blame everything on them? Oh they
were just bad husbands, or they didn't work, or you
know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:04:51):
Like I bet you all the cash in my pockets
that that is exactly what she said.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Yes, instead of tell though somebody goes on SA it
is somebody and just rips their ex to shreds or
puts all of the bad things that happen in their
breakup on her or him.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
It is and in most instances in life, like I'll
tell you this.

Speaker 7 (01:05:15):
If I'm driving and then I quote spot the third
bad driver of the day.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Guess what that drivers behind the wheel of Michael.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
You know that is sorright fun. That's a great analogy,
Courtney Arms draw.

Speaker 7 (01:05:31):
But yeah, anyone who blames everyone for everything, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:05:35):
I'm all curious how those that conversation went, Like, I'm
just curious as to what you know, she said, what
her experience is, you know, was with her.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
Divorces, Like, yeah, I would be digging into the divorce
papers I would be doing. Listen, You're not going to
get by me. It's not going to happen right by.

Speaker 11 (01:05:52):
The second or third one, like someone would say, wow,
she's had a really odd cast and right, I think
I might head for the hills this time.

Speaker 5 (01:06:00):
So she is, so she is escalating. You know, she
claims she was getting threatened and harassed. You know, she
starts harassing her ex husband. Then you know, she gets
us gets arrested for assault on her second husband, and
then her third husband is involved in you know, death
threats against her fourth. Let's like it is literally escalate

(01:06:22):
every single time. And if you are following, if you're
interested in pattern recognition, of any kind. By the fifth husband,
you're going to be like, Okay, this is gonna like
how sad Like this was completely predictable.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
And predictable, which is why we have the benefit of
hindsight to unpack it.

Speaker 12 (01:06:40):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
Usually you know what that's like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
You meet somebody you're deeply in love and it doesn't
matter what they tell me, and you're like, oh, he's gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Change or it's different this time.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
I have done that.

Speaker 5 (01:06:53):
But this poor guy listen, and it's not his fault.
He might not even even known her history, like our
dumb Joseph the.

Speaker 11 (01:07:01):
Fifth husband does like, can't you look at me?

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
Well, yeah, but not everybody does that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
There's so many people are trust I'm not, but a
lot of people are dis trusting, you know what I mean, Like, yeah,
but listen, Jumpy people are the worst, like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
I mean moving Wait.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
So that is your expert advice though, and I don't
disagree back.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
You know, streets do a little.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
You need to do some check in on those blind
dates and such, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
It is dangerous out there, kids, very.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Not really, by the way, I also we also do
want to perpetuate scariness because there's so much love to
be found. So this is not like stay inside because
it's so bad out there. No it's not, but of
course not. You gotta follow the basics.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
You've got to follow the basics.

Speaker 7 (01:07:46):
And speaking of the basics, I want to give a
little more of a lathe land of where we are
before we dive into the trial. So Sarah Hartsfield, she
is on trial again in Chambers County, Texas. The charge
is one count of murder and she has pleaded not
guilty and is under a bond of two million dollars.

(01:08:09):
The jury selections underway. Opening statements will be starting after that,
and prosecutors allege she used her husband's diabetes as a
cover to inject him with fatal levels of insulin and
then proceeded to wait hours before calling him. Yes, investigators
sound multiple insulin pens near Joseph's bedside. They noted inconsistencies

(01:08:33):
in Sarah Hartfield's statements, and the cause of death is
ruled as complications from toxic insulin exposure and the manner
of death was listed as undetermined. So interesting a grand jury.
The indictment alleges that she quote intentionally and knowingly caused

(01:08:53):
his death by unknown means and her defense, which I'm
curious how it'll play out. The defense maintains means that
Joseph may have died due to natural complications from a
stroke and his medical condition.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
So that is what the defense.

Speaker 13 (01:09:08):
Is already, mad, we need to leave this question, can
sound to ask? Yeah, for sure, because that's a very
specific thing. You think that would be kindically provable one
way or the other. But that's an interesting thing about toxicology.

Speaker 4 (01:09:25):
You know. Again, I only know this because I've learned.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
This is you know, your body absorbs things differently, and
there are certain things that aren't tested for, and if
they are, they have to be tested within a certain time.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
It's complicated.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
So, wow, insulin seems like it would be one that
could be tested for.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
I'll be. I didn't even i'll be.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
I don't know a lot about insulin, but I didn't
know you could die from it, Like, I had no
idea until this.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
You can die from too much? Why I didn't know that. Yeah,
I remember that you died from water too much.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
They were doing a movie competition, remember that too, like
so in that right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:01):
It depleted her sodium or something.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
I think too much of anything is too much right,
So much of access is excess.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
But you know somewhere I really need to learn that
lesson better than I have. I just do.

Speaker 6 (01:10:15):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Too much of anything is too much. Five days a week,
How's that that's fair?

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Maybe six that's okay? Fine too.

Speaker 7 (01:10:28):
In the trial, so two of her former husbands are
subpoena to testify.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
So I think that will be.

Speaker 4 (01:10:38):
That will be interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
That will be interesting. I think this will be very
They dodged a.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Bullet allegedly, Thank goodness. You know, to hear that somebody
you are so close to in the next relationship is
being accused for murder, and for probably similar reasons that
she tried to harm you or harass you, that must
also be extremely harrowing mm hmm.

Speaker 11 (01:11:01):
And the fact that this last one, since something was
going to happen and was already afraid, that's that in itself.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
But I'm having like brain freeze over where I'm gonna
get buried. Not to switch.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Topics, as you guys are still looking like still stressed
about it.

Speaker 11 (01:11:16):
I want the diamond.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
I didn't know about this.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
There's too many options. I don't know the natural burial
that's interesting too.

Speaker 7 (01:11:23):
I know with with what did you say, monks overlooking?
That sounds really peaceful looking.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
This doesn't seem like there's an land anywhere anymore in
the idea that then there's also flooding and water to consider.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
Listen, even when my little.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Dog died, they gave you that option you go live
when you're in like such despair, saying you can do
a ring, you can do a plant, you can do
a dis And I haven't opened the envelope yet because
I don't know what I decided in the moment of distress.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
I could see your brain doesn't know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:53):
Yeah, I have to say my last dog.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
And boy, you said it earlier, Steff.

Speaker 7 (01:11:59):
And like losing a pet, is anyone who's experienced it
or has it, really it just it breaks your heart
in a very large and specific way. But my last dog,
who I put down after a long, long, fifteen year
gorgeous life, and I did it at home because I
have two other dogs and I wanted them to understand.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
But the people who came to my house.

Speaker 7 (01:12:25):
I was thinking about this when Joseph Scott Morgan was saying,
he you know, he caters to the dead. He is
a caretaker to them, and the people who put my
dog down one vet and this other I don't know
angel I would call him.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
He was there.

Speaker 7 (01:12:40):
He did not say one single word, but had a
bed to take my Dogie out in and was just
it was so peaceful and such reverence in anyway, people
who do that are really specific people.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
True, it is not never.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
The true same, you know in my experience as well,
like the person was just an angel on earth whose
name I don't even know, who I could picture in
my head.

Speaker 4 (01:13:05):
Oh it's court. That was a traumatic experience for you.

Speaker 7 (01:13:08):
But you know, losing a pet is the greatest heartbreak,
is what someone said, the most worthwhile heartbreak.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
I had.

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
I can't even talk about it.

Speaker 11 (01:13:18):
Younger, I still can't even mind.

Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
I can't imagine if it was an annoying one, but
I was. I haven't because of it.

Speaker 11 (01:13:25):
When I was young, my I had a like a
dog named Chappie, and he was aging and he was
getting he couldn't walk and he started to get really old.
But my stepdad took him to the vet to put
him down and didn't tell me, like I was at school,
so I never got to say goodbye to Chappie, like
needlessly saying my relationship with my stepdad was completely severed

(01:13:45):
after that. But like and after that, I could never
get another pet, Like it just triggered. It hit me
so hard that I'm like, I can so I'm mad
at him. I'm mad that the pet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yes, yes, it was just it was so much like
just when you think you have no love to give,
you get you know, a pet, and you're like, oh, well.

Speaker 5 (01:14:10):
I see you with a cat. I do you know
when I see you what I see with the sphinx,
And that's what I.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
Like a little spaniel number I can I don't, I
do not see that.

Speaker 5 (01:14:31):
Just because like haha is a very elegant man, like
his home is immaculate. He's just a knight and eats,
he's always well put together. I just see him with
a cat, like a sphinx that's always perfect, like perfect styling.
I'm a cat stylist. Gues you by the way I was,
you make a good you make a good play there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
I still see a little shaggy little nugget that can
be on your lap.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Gi kisses all day and hugs.

Speaker 7 (01:15:01):
We have to go to something multifaceted, your chic and lovable.

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
It's a good combination.

Speaker 7 (01:15:08):
You talk about a crime daddy.

Speaker 4 (01:15:11):
Okay, crime daddy Jo Do you like that? But he's
also our music story also he is.

Speaker 5 (01:15:26):
Yeah, stick around because we've got more to dig into.
Not what kind of cat Taha is going to get,
but we're going to be answering your talkbacks about everything
we've covered.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
In the past. Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We're
talking true crime all the time. Or I guess we've
been talking true crime all the time. Where has this
night gone again? So again, if you've missed any of
the show, catch after as a podcast. I'm Stephanie Leidecker
here with Courtney Armstrong. End body you move in My
girls on a Sunday night. I love it when we're together,

(01:16:09):
especially after a long weekend, whether good or bad. I'm
always just so psyched to get to this time of
the night. So so true It flies by, It flies by.
Let's go to a talk back.

Speaker 6 (01:16:21):
Hi.

Speaker 12 (01:16:21):
There, it's Alea in British Columbia. Again. I'm listening every night.
You can certainly have both things be true. You can
be a good person and you can still have done
a bad thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Or things.

Speaker 12 (01:16:33):
However, if you do bad thing, you're gonna have to
pay for it, and your friends can't write letters and
say you're a good person. It's like that swimmer guy
that I don't want to say his name. He had
a whole life ahead of him, but a slap on
the wrist for rape. That dude was literally caught red
handed raping a girl behind a dumpster by some other dudes,

(01:16:54):
and after all the trial and the proof, he hardly
had to do anytime. So that's just not cool. Don't
care for the whole This person did a bad thing,
but they have so much potential, so let's just not
make them pay for their crime.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
What a great talk back. It's so true. Consequences.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
That's what we're really talking about here, right, is the
idea that a person, Yeah, of course we all do
bad things, right. I mean so that, yes, of course
you can be a good person. I completely agree, But
we're talking if you're doing a crime, you got to
do the time. You know, in fact, you have a
kid and you know you love them implicitly, but something

(01:17:36):
goes awry. You have to have consequences to learn, right,
and they learn if you don't right. Exactly as you know,
case in point as our talk about I didn't catch
her name. I think Aliyah great, great talk back, you know,
as she's mentioning in this particular case.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Yeah, and the case it was the Rock Turner rape.

Speaker 5 (01:18:00):
Yes, I believe, And don't get me started on that
thing that was we should.

Speaker 7 (01:18:04):
Yeah, we should cover that. And actually, yeah, we're gonna
we're going to cover that. Thank you for mentioning that
because your point of the punishment not fitting the crime.
That was one of the most egregious u endings to
a case that I can imagine. But yeah, let's cover it.
And I also want to talk about the survivor who

(01:18:26):
has gone on She to write a memoir of sorts.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
So anyway, what graduating that one?

Speaker 11 (01:18:34):
And if the sad part is I was trying to
really quickly google to see who that was. There's another swimmer,
So I was like, who's this one? There's another one.
Anthony James a former British competitive swimmer. He was in
the twenty twelve Olympics and in October twenty twenty four
he was convicted on multiple counts, including rape and some
other awful things. But in February of twenty twenty five,

(01:18:56):
he was sentenced to twenty one years in prison. So
it sounds like there's a couple of unusual ones, but
the Brock turned one, I definitely yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:19:04):
That one's infuriating. That one is absolutely infuriating. In fact,
there's a there's a lady on TikTok that I follow
that talks almost exclusively about Brock Turner, and every time
I come across our videos, I'm like, oh, it just
boils my blood and I have to keep scrolling the same.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:19:20):
So that's one we should definitely unpack for people who
don't know that one.

Speaker 11 (01:19:23):
I think that's a good one, isn't that. I love
that our audience is always giving us a suggestion.

Speaker 4 (01:19:28):
The smartest, that's they're the smartest. They're really smart, very smart.
Love Anyway, are we over already?

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Oh my goodness, I know all right, Well I hear
that music now it's making me said, I'm getting all
high up.

Speaker 4 (01:19:42):
Okay, so listen. Great night with Joseph Scott Morgan.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
We're so incredibly grateful that he was here Tomorrow, major
unpack on all things Diddy and a couple of new
cases that we've been really putting together. That we're excited
for you to hear. It's is true crime tonight. Stay
safe out there, back and