The Menendez Brothers, Vigilante Justice, and Bryan Kohberger’s Latest Prison Comments

It’s Talkback Tuesday, and we're addressing your messages on all sorts of topics– from Bryan Kohberger’s selfies, to Epstein’s Island, to Missouri serial killers and whether or not D4VD is being prematurely tried in the press. Tune in for all the details. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head
of KAT Studios, where I get to make true crime podcasts.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Like In Cells out Now.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
That was a very interesting conversation about in Cells that
we had last night, as well as the Idaho Massacre
season three and every night here of course with Courtney
Armstrong and a body move in. We have Sam behind
the board. And by the way, guys, it's just us.
We are running and wild tonight on Talk Practicday.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'm a little nervous. We don't have any safety rails tonight.
Like Itay, It's okay, like it.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
So we're going to be just as four chickens tonight
and listen. It's Tuesday, October seventh. I hope you had
a beautiful full moon. I actually fell asleep without doing
the moonwater.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Did you do your moonwater? What about oh?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Crystals out? I put my crystals out on the table,
so let's see if you notice anything different.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, you're kind of not sure what to look for.

Speaker 5 (01:23):
I'm recommending all the crystal work then, because I I
hang around people that like crystals, so I learned from
them and I I did sleep charge.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
I apologize to the team, But listen, we're doing talk
back Tuesdays right now.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
As always.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
This is our favorite night where we get to hear
from you directly. You've been sending a lot of dms.
That's actually a funny thing that's been happening, so many dms,
and listen, we encourage you to leave them as a
talkback because it's so fun to hear your voice. Any
personal ones I try to immediately respond to. But the
ones that you've been sending directly to the show are

(01:57):
really good.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
So we're going to try to get through some of
those to night as well.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Sometimes those get a little bit overlooked though, because hearing
the voice is so fun. So we're going to encourage
you if you've given us a DM, how did just
do it as a talkback too? Just you know, download
the iHeartRadio app. It's totally free. And then in the
top right here in corner there's a little microphone icon.
You just push that and then talk right into it

(02:21):
and boom, we'll play it on the show.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Anyway, So all kinds of categories happening tonight. Whether there's
lots of things about Diddy, we have things about Coburger again,
the Menendez brothers.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
So if you.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Want to jump in and join the convo live listen,
tonight's the night to do it, because there's no screening
going on here whatsoever. You're right on the show immediately.
We can trade recipes crime. Yeah, if you have a
favorite recipe, we want to hear that too. So let's
start with our first talkback, Sam, what do you think
you're gonna surprise us or we we do know this

(02:55):
as a Brian Coburger five it I believe, Yeah, I
believe this is going to be a surprise.

Speaker 6 (03:00):
Oh so I was just wondering if you guys thought
that Brian's eyes look emotionless too.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
It just absolutely kills.

Speaker 7 (03:10):
Me how he could sit there as the victims' sisters
were talking in court and just berating.

Speaker 5 (03:19):
Him as he deserves, and he just show zero remorse
or anything.

Speaker 8 (03:25):
I mean, you know, inside it was killing him, but still.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Was it though? I was going to ask do you
guys think it was killing him inside? Well?

Speaker 4 (03:35):
I do specifically for the only real reaction that I
noticed was when Olivia, Kaylee's sister spoke, and she spoke
and started with I'm not giving you my tears. I
am giving you the truth of my sister Kaylee. And
basically Maddie was her other little sister because the two
girls were best friends. And he did, for that one,

(03:57):
have so many micro movements. You could see his jaw clenching, yes,
because she was really going after him in these really
small personal ways about like shaving his eyebrows and for like, and.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
She was bringing up like the survey questions like how
did you feel when you you know, and it seemed
like he was clenching his jaw just like like really
really little bit. We had that body language expert on
and she was talking about those micro movements of his face.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
She was so good. She was so good. We should
have her mat She was so good. That was good.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I would be curious even about Ditty in court, you know,
his you know, because we need to.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
See that, right.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
But yeah, with Coberger, I think the only there was
one other person. I thought he kind of had a
little bit of expression with and that was I believe
Xana's aunt. Yes, yes, And she said something it was,
I mean she has a lot of grace, like more
than I do. And she said something like I forgive
you and I'm going to pray for you, something along
those lines. And he seemed to kind of like maybe

(05:04):
react a little bit, but I kind of like, you know,
to our talk back, she was saying that, you know,
do you think he was dying?

Speaker 3 (05:10):
And I don't. I don't think he had any emotion
about it.

Speaker 5 (05:13):
I think that the only emotion he had out of
it was feeling some sort of power knowing they want
answers and he has them and is not going to
give it to them.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
And it seemed like Kaylee's sister, specifically, Kaylee Gonzalez's sister,
was sort of speaking to a narcissist, right, So she
was sort of backtracking on how to deal with somebody
who has those narcissistic traits, right. They fuel off of
the energy and they want to get you all amped up.
So the way she specifically was dealing with him, it

(05:42):
seemed very strategic and wildly effective in my opinion. You know,
I also brings up a question for me. Sometimes when
we know, for fact, for their admission that someone has
committed a murder, how they look after versus before the

(06:02):
murders in the eyes, specifically, back to the caller's point,
there is a deadness sometimes and I can't tell if
it maybe is a deadness that's always there. And also
let's remember too, with Brian Coberger specifically, he does have
an affect, you know, so he is someone who was
diagnosed with autism. We don't know where on the spectrum

(06:24):
that lands, and has some you know, inability to kind
of integrate with regular social skills. So imagine now you're
in this courtroom facing all of this judgment. I would
to assume he was just completely shut down.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, I mean masking to the utmost level.

Speaker 5 (06:42):
Right, he doesn't want to give them the satisfaction of
any emotion, right. I don't think he really had any though,
to be fair, I just I really don't. I think
his reactions and even.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Just when he looked back at his mother or something like,
none of that really registered.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
So that makes me think maybe it really was pure wall.

Speaker 5 (07:01):
When we had Brian Innton on he was talking about
how mom was kind of crying in the courtroom, and
you know, whimpering a little bit, and Brian was completely
unaffected by this, you know, So I just feel like he,
you know, doesn't. I don't think he wanted to lash
out or wanted to say anything until Olivia. I think

(07:22):
a beautiful woman giving him a tongue lashing was not
okay with him.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
That's what I think.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, I agree, And Stephanie, you brought up Diddy since
no one was in the courtroom and we didn't have
cameras obviously since it's.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
A federal case.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
But last night with Secret Service Sam, it was very
interesting to hear. You know, it's different when you are
there and it's a person and their children are speaking,
et cetera, et cetera. It can be easy to forget
that when you're not there.

Speaker 5 (07:53):
Yeah, I mean, you know, even hearing you know about
Brian Coberger's mom crying in the courtroom, it makes him
feel more seem more human because when you think about
just the atrocities that he committed, he's a monster, and
then you have this, you know, by all accounts, gentle
kind woman sobbing over his deeds and incarceration. It kind

(08:16):
of gives you a little different perspective. I still am
happy he's gone forever right in the penal system, but
you know, I can't help but feel, you know, a
little pity for his mom.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, it does human for his whole family, you know, honestly,
for all of the family is involved. What a unique
scenario to have to be in a courtroom with all
of the players, you know, in one place. And I
need to always say, oh, weddings are so fun because
it's a person both sides, all of their favorite people.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Get to be in one one time. And this is
the exact opposite, Like all.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Of the worst scenarios are all together in this one room.
So tensions are very high, the emotion is so high,
perhaps as somebody like himself. Of course, this is just Specklation,
who's known to be so regulated emotionally enough so to
be able to pull up a crime of this kind

(09:08):
and still function in the real world the next day,
or get coffee at you know, the costco a couple
hours later.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
That's very specific.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
That requires a level of social or emotional organization that
I would imagine you'd be a wreck. So maybe that's
just his way of managing, right, mayeat, guys, I do get.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
That, absolutely true. This is true crime. Tonight we are
on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm so lucky to be
here always with Body Moven and Stephanie Leidecker, and tonight
with Sam in the control room. We have no ATOM
in the control room. We have no TAHA producing us.
So we'll see how this goes. Give us a call
eighty to eight three, one crime we do and thumbs up,

(09:49):
thumbs down, we can take it or always give us
a talkback. Right on the iHeartRadio app upper right hand corner,
Press the red microphone and you're on the show. So, Boddy,
you had mentioned the penal system, Yes, and I wanted.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
To ask you.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Did you have an update on what's going on with
Brian Coburger?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah? In prison?

Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, so it's come out, you know, Brian Coberger again,
he's been convicted of murdering for students, University of Idaho students,
and he's reportedly having a very difficult time in prison.
And we've got two more updates on kind of what's
been happening. He TMZ obtained the Idaho Department of Correction
records yesterday or month, Yeah, yesterday that show more complaints

(10:32):
that he's been launching, and previously in late July, Coburger
began living, you know, in this long term restrictive housing block,
the J Block with Chet Dabel Chat Dabell's on this
block at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution and J Block
inmates occupy you know, a single cell. They're only allowed
out for like one hour, and they're like shackled, you know,

(10:54):
the whole time, and if they sit down, they're shackled
to their little chair. They get one hour of outdoor
recreation daily and they are moved in restraints and only
allowed to shower every other day.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
And we all know that Brian Coberger likes to shower.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
That must drive him more crazy than most things, I'm sure.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
So on a July twenty seventh Resident Concern form, Coburger
stated that he is still unable to access JPay, which
is how they pay for their commissary and how they
pay for their supplies basically you know, outside of the
regular prison food that you know you normally would get.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
And so on August.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
Thirteenth, he wrote another letter noting that he had not
received a supply bag four days after his request, so
he put on a request for a supply bag.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
I don't know what those are.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
But five days later he said a note thanking Sage
Sergeant Martin for the printouts and the bubble sheets for commissary,
adding that his issues with JPAI have been resolved. So
thank god Brian Coberger has the ability to order his commissary.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
So we've got that update, and you know, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
I was just going to say, you changed my whole
theory on this, and I have to actually stand corrected. Yes,
And I thought about it more times than I should admit,
and I did an interview yesterday. It's just kind of
has resonated with me that I kind of jumped on
the who cares what he's eating and who cares bad?
When when the conviction first happened, I kind of was

(12:25):
a little glib about it, and I have really given
that thought and you're one hundred percent right. He deserves,
of course, to have his needs met. That is the
system we are in. And yeah, like it needs to
get resolved. And whether there's a motion attached to what
a person did or has been accused of, it doesn't

(12:46):
mean that their human rights should go away.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
I mean it's easy.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
I feel like it's so easy to be like us
you know who cares let him eat his apple and brain.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
I did that. I did that for a full day.

Speaker 5 (12:57):
But you know, he's got this eating disorder, which is
a real thing, which is a real thing, real thing,
And we can't, you know, we can choose like, oh,
we really care about this person's eating disorder, but not
this person because they did this horrible crime.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
And also because it is an institution that is run,
you know, by many people. But we can't then be
party to torture, right, or we don't.

Speaker 5 (13:20):
We shouldn't be party to torture. We're held to a
higher standard in this country. I believe.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
That's just my personal belief.

Speaker 5 (13:28):
You know, I could be wrong, but I feel like,
you know, we are held to a higher standard. This
isn't like wantonam obey, right, This is like the United
States of America. And we have chosen the penal system
for punishment. And if we as a society have chosen
this system, we are responsible for taking care of those
inmates and making sure their basic needs are met. That's
all I know. And I don't know that I appreciated that,

(13:51):
and it's hard.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I feel like you've opened my eyes to it, and now.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Every conversation I have is like sort of reinforcing it.
So that's off to the conversation, and that's what we're hereabout.
I'm glad the commissary got resolved. Yes, well, listen, I'm
happy to let Brian Koberger live his life in obscurity
at this point. You know, at this point, I don't
really care what he's eating because I kind of want
people to stop paying attention to him so that he

(14:16):
starts craving it and maybe he'll get some answers to
the family, right.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Right, Yes, that's a cool question. Yeah, that's the goal.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
There's one we have just a quick second left, but
I wanted to read a very short DM.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
It's regarding BK.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
I know you guys will keep us updated with the
latest info on victims, families, whatever they want us to know,
including foundations and their memory, public ventures they may be pursuing, etc.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
And that is from Sarah.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
So there's Ethan's Smile Foundation, a foundation that honors Ethan
Shapin's love of life, people, and new adventures by providing
scholarships that enable others to follow their dreams.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
I love that. I love that. There's also I made
with kindness foundation too, So check that out. That's absolutely
good one.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
And stick around because when we come back, we have
more talkbacks, we have more dms. We will be talking Epstein,
David and a'll plethora of other things. True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong. Body move in here on talk Back Tuesday.
We're getting through your talkbacks, by the way, keep them coming,
they are so good. And lots of dms, lots and
lots of dms. There seems to be like an uptick
on the DM front, so we keep those coming too,

(15:47):
But we encourage you to leave the talkbacks also, or
just call live at eight eight eight three one crime. Body,
you were going to say, what, I just think it's
easier for people to leave a DM. I just think
people like the DM system more. You know, I work
in Vain, guess in the casino industry, and like rumors.
People don't even call to make rumors. Everything's done. They
don't want to talk to nobody. And I think that's fair. Yeah,
I think that's it.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
But the DM is pretty easy also and then otherwise
I have to loud, and then I can't read out loud.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
I know, we know this. I'm not a good out loud.

Speaker 5 (16:17):
Plus, I feel like with this kind of show, we
need the voice, you get the tone, you know, you
need fun. It's so fun with the talkbacks. So please
leave with some talkbacks.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yes, although this, I know that I have to read
some today and I'm like starting to sweat just thinking about,
Like I'm already counting in my head how many lines
like of things I have.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
To read, even though I even love the I love
the DM so much, so I will do it. But
just so you know, it's not my strong suit. Yeah,
I feel you. I feel you. Well to talk back
while we're at it.

Speaker 9 (16:51):
Hey, all, stuff from Bama again. Just y'all know how
excited I was about the merch. I've already filled out
my order for stop just kidding. I know there's not
an order for him, but I'm that excited. Anyways, y'all
keep doing the job that y'all are doing it, which
is great. Your vibes are awesome, every one of y'all. Taha,

(17:13):
Sam Adam included. Definitely can't forget my boy Joseph forensic steady.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Gosh, we would just sick and we so we'll let
him know because that's really sweet. Yeah, he's out with us,
very very bad cold right now. So we told him
not to worry and that we will be just fine
without him.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Famous last words. So if we all kind of go wild.
What a great story. But I'm excited for merch too.
That is such.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
That is such a great example also of why talkbacks
are so great. That we got to hear exactly your
your great intonation and your fun all of the above.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
So that was really good. Oh, we have a little
true crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
This is the merchant happening, So just so you know,
there is an order forum in the future. So we're
really working on the merch thing. In fact, Whitney on
the team is going to kind of be heading up merch.
Is she really new assignment? New assignment where we're trying
to figure it out?

Speaker 5 (18:17):
Wait, I want to hearing a tumbler and maybe maybe
a baseball, like a really good ball cap, Yeah, really
good ball cap, like a girl's trucker, like a right,
a girl's trucker hat.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, Like Courtney right now is wearing her new York
met hat she is, Yes, I am loud. Is very nice.

Speaker 5 (18:36):
But is that a cap? Or is that like a
is that a hat? Or that is like a baseball
the baseball cap? I want like a trucker, like the
cool girl trucker hat, like the.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Are you gonna wear a little sideways?

Speaker 5 (18:48):
I might give it a little like boom, the old
Paris Hilton style, the tilt.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
All I'm picturing is Ashton Kutcher personally, But that was
very much back in that.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
The I love that, I really do like I do too,
I do too. I mean, my mother just said my
word backward. What's up? Remember the backward baseball hat? Stage?
Not into it?

Speaker 4 (19:10):
No?

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Oh I did? Yeah? Your hair under it? Yeah? Well
all right, let's go to the next dot Pat What
have you got?

Speaker 10 (19:20):
Sam Alia in British Columbia, Canada again And I just
wanted to say, I'm a pretty new listener, but you
quickly become a podcast that I look forward to listening
to every single day and I never want to miss it.
So thank you so much. You guys do an awesome

(19:40):
job and I really appreciate all the information that I
get from you every single day.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Xoxo, Can I just say, gossip girl xo xo. I'm
I listen.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
I don't get a lot compliments, so like having you know,
these wonderful compliments like bring them on. Sam keeps all
the bad stuff away from us, right, all the bad things.
I just want the good things. Keep them coming. Thank
you so much for that talkback. I'm kidding, by the way.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
That was so nice. Thank you for listening.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, serious, keep those talkbacks coming, you see another example
of the voice is so precious and important.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
And she was from British Columbia. Is that did I
remember that?

Speaker 5 (20:26):
Ye?

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yes, she said Canada. Yep, British Columbia.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
I mean I I just love the Canadian audience for
this show. You're so engaged. I'm surprised we've had like
talkbacks followed up by a call in because we responded
to the talkback and it's really fun to engage in
a too a conversation.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
This is true current tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're talking
true crime all the time. We're right in the middle
of Talkback Tuesday doing a little talkback Roulette situation and
we are here with body movin. That's me Stephanie Leidecker
and Courtney Armstrong. We have Sam on the board if
you want to give us a call. Eighty eight thirty
one Crime. Let's hear another talkback, Sam.

Speaker 7 (21:05):
Hi, I'm just listening to the episode about the CTEs
and I just wanted to give Taha.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
A little.

Speaker 11 (21:15):
One second of it that just cut off.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, that was such a give him a little That
was a little wah. I thought I lost sound for
a second.

Speaker 11 (21:23):
That like, it's got a weird thing. But let's let's
rewind that first.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Okay, Yeah, but I love the point it happened to
fall because, Yeah, this could go anywhere if Taha a
little chihuahua, give him a little accolade, a.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Little coal medicine. Yeah, give him a little hug in,
a little musin X.

Speaker 7 (21:44):
I am just listening to the episode about the CTEs,
and I just wanted to give Taha a little shout out,
some snaps for not letting the victims of the Manhattan shooting.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Get lost in the sauce.

Speaker 7 (21:58):
Love you, Taha, Love you all by Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Is Taha putting up his entire family to leave talkbacks tonight?
I know, I feel like he's very present even though
he's not here.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
Speaking of CTZ. Did you guys hear about this Mark
Sanchez stabbing?

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Mm hmmm, yeah, let's discuss.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
I mean, I don't know a whole lot about it,
but I'm I do know that he's a football player
and there was some kind of altercation in the parking
lot or over a parking space of some of some kind.
In that this the victim has been like knifed like
in his face, and he's suing, uh, Mark Sanchez, and
I believe maybe even his team.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, it's not great.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
You know, the reports are are pretty bad about this one.
And there's also there's there's video. There's tape of him,
meaning Mark Sanchez. So basically the story goes, he was
out and about. He had been to a bar or
a restaurant, and according to the victim, who was I
believe a truck driver and I'm just kind of spitfiring

(22:59):
this now, he was exiting and leaving in Mark Sanchez,
who had been drinking you know, at the bar or
wherever I guess, wanted to get in his vehicle and
then the driver of that vehicle was like no, and
it kind of turned into an altercation. The driver was
a sixty nine year old They keep saying that on repeat,

(23:20):
like he was sixty nine, he was fearful for his
life and Sanchez was blocking him from both moving or
for signaling for help. And that led into this the
stabbing situation where Mark Sanchez definitely got stabbed, and now
it appears that the victim is really fighting back hard.

(23:41):
Here he's still in the hospital, Mark Sanchez, but will
be arrested for it. And oh, he's in the house.
It's not looking great. It's not looking super great.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
I didn't know that, and he's going to be charged
with felony battery. And you're so correct, Stephanie, that it
does keep getting repeated that he was almost seventy. You know,
he's sixty nine years old. He also was five at
eight about one hundred and sixty five pounds. So Mark Sanchez,
former NFL quarterback, if you weren't aware, he's six foot two,
two thirty five and he is in some trouble and

(24:13):
also not giving a not giving a good name to
my Trojans either.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
And we don't know that he has a CT.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
I should mention that I think it might be something
that might be a play here a little bit right,
Like I don't think that it's been confirmed that he
has a ct but you know, we've been talking about
them lately because of the Manhattan shooting cushions. Yes, and
you know Aaron Hernandez we talked about a little bit
and it's a really tragic situation that these sports guys

(24:42):
go through, right and women.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
And is it possible that we'll learn he has a CTE?

Speaker 4 (24:47):
Well, body, just to underline what you said about, we
do not know if he does. Guess what, neither would
he because in this moment in time, you can literally
only diagnose to definitively having a CTE through a brain
autopsy after death.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
So yeah, I didn't know that, is that true?

Speaker 5 (25:08):
That's true now, So they do some kind of during autopsy,
they examine the brain and they correct. Oh, maybe if
you talk to Joseph about that, I'd like to learn
more about that.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
We should because researchers there developing clinical criteria, to developing
biomarkers to diagnose it during life. Wow, and you can
make a doctors may make a tentative diagnosis based on
the history of head trauma and mood changes and cognitive decline.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
But no, that's one of those that's only.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Wow death, Well, the thing about the Mark Sanchez thing too.
And by the way, if you're just joining us, it's
talk about Tuesday listening to true Crime tonight jump in
eight eight eight three one crime. So Mark Sanchez also,
you know, I think he's thirty five years old. He's
now a commentator for Fox Sports. He's really beloved too.
So you know, so many of his former teammates and

(26:01):
friends and colleagues have really spoken out. And this is
very unusual and very unlike him and very surprising. And
is it possible that this was just a really bad
night for Mark Sanchez. He went out, maybe got a
little boozy, allegedly, allegedly allegedly, and you know, one thing
went to another, and now he could be doing some

(26:22):
serious time even.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah, oh scary.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
Well anyway, I didn't mean to bring the bring the
tone down, but we had mentioned, yeah, I talk about
mentioned it and the story that I had read a
couple of days ago about Mark Sanchez, and oh, how sad.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
And it's Fox who's also being sued because Mark Sanchez
works for Fox as a commentator responsible for this. Well,
what he's stipulating, he or his attorneys who are representing him,
I don't know, but it's saying that the company knew
or should have known about his unfitness as an employee,

(27:00):
propensity for drinking and or harmful conduct.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
That's a quote that is not what I am saying.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
And yeah, I have no knowledge of whether he drinks
or not and how he is as an employee. Right,
But that's the rationale And the answer is why are
he and the attorneys It's because Fox has a lot
of cash, right, Yeah, Like that's.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
A little bit of there has to be more to
that game. Also, So if somebody misbehaves out of the
office and they're you know, out and about and drunken
and get into a bar fight, which happens.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
And it could just be that, right, Like, it could
just be a bad night.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Right, So is your employer therefore on the hook when
you were not doing anything on employee time.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
I can't imagine we should actually make a note to
see about case law.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
But I believe you're free to.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
Add whomever you want to a lawsuit and assuing I'm
not purporting this, but suing a really big company. It's
a lot less expensive generally if you can make it
go away quicker and put it will settle, right, exactly
pay out a little money versus Fox having to represent
themselves and being drowned in depositions Like I don't even

(28:17):
know if you know this body. I worked for a
lawyer for two years and part of my job was
I would read and synopsize depositions, and one of the
UC well, it's interesting, see but these depots were many
hundreds of pages each and thousands of dollars right, oh, absolutely,

(28:40):
But one of the cases we were working on included Viacom,
and so all of these big wigs at Viabcom, Sumner
Redstone and just all of these people. So the amount
of money it takes to defend yourself in a lawsuit.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
And your company's expensive, no doubt. I still don't.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I still think there has to be more too that
I'd be curious to do a deep dive. It seems
like Fox Sports could be suing Sanchez for making them
look bad for him being out and about getting into
a stabbing fight in the streets of Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
But who am I to say?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
And also worth noting, Mark Sanchez's family has also come
out and they support him, so of course, and you know,
hopefully everybody is going to be okay. But you know,
for the victim, that must have been extremely scary.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:31):
And I saw after the app there was a video
like surveying, like CCTV of him walking down the street.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
And his shirt it's just got blood all over it. Yeah,
he was like swaying almost. Yeah. So why is he
in the hospital?

Speaker 12 (29:45):
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Because he guts stabbed? Stabbed? Got Yeah?

Speaker 5 (29:49):
Oh wait a minute. I okay, So I thought the
victim was the only one who got stabbed. He actually
got stabbed to.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Self defense.

Speaker 5 (29:57):
Oh, oh my god, both stab each other.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yes, I think the driver feared for his life that well.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
Yeah, I mean if some football player is like coming
at me with a knife, I would be or even
their fists, I might pull out a pocket knife and
oh they got away from me.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Oh now I'm getting stabbed. Oh I can totally see
that happening. That's cool. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
And you think about it had he just stayed home
that day, or if the flight were later, or or
or if like the car service didn't come and pick
you up on time, Like right, I just.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
A terrible sliding door when something happens and like I'm
I'm late for work and it's a red light.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
I'm like, oh, but then I'm like, oh, there's got
to be a reason. There might be a real ago
home being delayed.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
And yes, it is talked back tuesday, and we are
busting through as many as we possibly can.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
So without further ado, let's go to the next one.

Speaker 13 (30:49):
Hi, I'm just thinking about this David case. Like I
understand that they might not have enough evidence to arrest him,
but like, why is he not being named.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
As just like a person of interest?

Speaker 13 (31:00):
There's so much evidence and yeah, I'm really just like
frustrated and confused with that.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (31:06):
Fair, I mean it is fair. I mean it is
his car that she was found in. And you know,
if what we're reading is true on the internet, you know,
it's possible that they had some kind of relationship. Whether
it was romantic or you know, friend.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
We don't know.

Speaker 5 (31:25):
But why hasn't he been named a person of interest
in you know what? We don't know that he hasn't
really been right. I mean, the police don't really have
to tell us if he is.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
Yet right, but officially hasn't been because this has not
been deemed a homicide. If it's not a homicide, then
there's no person of interest in the homicide, right. I
know it's semantics, but it's I mean that's I do.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Think there's more to it, though than that coordinate, because
there are examples of people being named persons of interest
or frankly even being identified as the lead suspect without
toxicology and things being back in time. So that's happened honestly,
right or wrong, many, many, many times. I'd like to
think that maybe there's a real reason that David has

(32:07):
not been identified publicly.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
I think he'd be a.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Sure thing, and if there were real, real evidence that
would hold him, I think they would have jumped onto it,
to be honest. So yes, while it might not be
deemed a homicide, maybe they would have gotten him on
something else, or a smaller charge, or a statutory rape
or something like that, if there were things that were
possibly able to keep him behind bars until toxicology came back.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
Because think about it.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Regardless of the toxicology report, if there was a fear
that David the pop star was a danger to society,
I don't know that they would allow him to roam free.
So I have to assume that there's more to it
that we just don't know, and that there's a reason
that he hasn't been identified. I wonder. I don't know
the answer. This is not definitive, but I'm curious. That's

(32:57):
my gut on it. And I totally you though, Courtney,
because it's true, it is not technically a homicide. But
I can probably think of four cases top of head
where that didn't matter in the past, or that this
person was held on other charges, which there have been
other things surrounding this case that is causing a lot
of the speculation that I would also think they would

(33:20):
have brought him in for.

Speaker 11 (33:21):
Guys, I have a quick question, and I'm curious because
everyone thinks David totally did it because of like his
music and it kind of like there's a connections, like
how do you guys feel about the whole Like, oh, well,
it's in his lyrics.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's in his music.

Speaker 11 (33:36):
That's proof when if we not okay good?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Because I was curious.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
Those songs came out like a long time ago, right,
like they're not you know, it's not listen, how monumentally
stupid would you have to be to write a song about,
you know, killing your girlfriend and then killing her in
the exact same way that you wrote about right.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Although it is a weird requincidence, is it possible he's
being framed?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
He maybe?

Speaker 2 (34:03):
I mean, it seems like there's it's also a bit
of a leap to assume that that the lyrics and
the actual murder are pretty similar, Like, what are the
odds of that eerie coincidence?

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Let's call it that.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
But is it also possible that maybe he's being framed
by somebody who knows Hm, those lyrics are going to
be eventually connected to this case. Hey, by the way,
I have access to his vehicle. Hey, by the way,
I maybe know more to this story. So I'm going
to set up David to take the fall. I don't
I'm so spitfile, you know, spitfiring here. But I feel

(34:40):
like there's a reason he hasn't been named. And I
went through the same thing as our caller. I was like,
why is this allowed? And I was so worked up
over it? And then yes, we all kind of discussed
that maybe it was like a Hollywood case and they
were being extra buttoned up because they knew the scrutiny
this case would be under, you know, beautiful select to
reave us, you know, was laid to rest just yesterday

(35:03):
and again.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Our family, her family is you know, so loved.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Our listeners are saying this all that's time, right, So
we're all in that. We we really are grieving for
the family, right. But I worry that we may be
too quick to judgment on us.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Well Sarah, who sent us a DM. Thank you Sarah.
Here's her sentiment. I'm worried. I'm worried people are jumping
to conclusions about David, and that's so dangerous. Why didn't
he quote find her? Maybe they broke up and he
fell out of contact while he was gone. All the
stuff about the tesla, maybe he loaned that to Celeste

(35:42):
and his phone wasn't the primary key, maybe hers was.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Also, why hasn't he said anything?

Speaker 4 (35:48):
Obviously the lawyers have shushed him, and that's smart of them,
even though she was young. We can't hang him out
to dry without these details. I would like to say
I did not write this. This is a DM from Sarah.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Wow, Sarah and I kind of agree.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
I mean, until further notice, there isn't enough to sink
our teeth into I mean, listen, his cour was canceled,
he's not on the road. But if David is, you know,
murdering young girls and shoving them in trunks. Then I
feel like that would make him a danger to the
town and the land in all of Los Angeles for

(36:26):
that matter, frankly the world, or he'd be a flight risk.
And I don't know that law enforcement would take that risk.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
I guess we'll have to wait and see and you know,
and to address the specific points of this.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
This DM from Sarah, and by the way, Sarah, thank
you for that DM. It's really good.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
It says maybe they broke up and he fell out
of contact while he was gone.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Well, and if you.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Look at the timeline and you know the timeline, you
know that David was you know, he started his tour
on August fifth, and if the timeline is what it is,
you know she was likely put in the trunk around
that time. So it is possible that you know, this
happened while he was gone, because the next day, in

(37:10):
August sixth, he went to Phoenix and then kind of
started branching out from there. And then the other point
is all all the stuff about the tesla, Maybe he
loaned it to Celeste and his phone wasn't the primary key,
maybe hers was, perhaps, but she's fourteen years old.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
I mean, she doesn't.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
You don't dry to a fourteen year old, so I
and you know it. Let's but let's live in a
world where that's true. Like, hey, you know, I'm breaking
all these laws by being in a relationship with you.
What's one more thing in giving my car? How does
she get in the trunk in a bag?

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Is it possible that.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Let's just you know, going on that same theory, because
that does kind of resonate a little bit. You know, again,
people may have thought that she was older than fourteen
years old, so she did appear she looked older.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Well his friends and that she thought they thought she
was a USC student. Yeah, that she was nineteen years old.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
And by the way, you know, I probably drove at
fourteen at some point, you know, I don't know, don't
you know. Let's know, we're grading on a curve here
on these memories. But you know, look at you know,
just go there for a second. So, Yeah, he lends
her his vehicle, knowing that he's going to be out
of town for a bit.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
She takes him up on it. Maybe she goes and
is rooffeed.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Maybe she goes and they're partying and there's drugs there,
and something nefarious happens and they're like, oh, shoot, what
are we going to do with you know, Celeste's body,
So oh, let's throw her in her own trunk and
then that'll get linked to David. We're out of here.
Maybe it was a bunch of random people. Who knows. Yeah,
but I do know her family needs answers. I mean,

(38:45):
period the end, exclamation point, right, But.

Speaker 5 (38:48):
Thank you for that talkback, Sarah. Really what really thought out,
really well done. It's our absolutely m I should say
we appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, this is true Crime Tonight.

Speaker 4 (38:57):
We're on iHeartRadio and I'm Courtney here with Body and Stephanie.
It's talk Back Tuesday, and we were just responding to
a talk back and DM on the David and Celes
revs case. And I think we have some on the
Menendez brothers that have been there for a minute. Okay,

(39:20):
do you let's see Cricket who I feel like we've
heard from Cricket before, unless there's more than one.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Oh, I love Cricket.

Speaker 9 (39:28):
I know.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yes, Sam's nodding vigorously regarding the Menendez brothers. I understand
the thought that their actions were quote understandable given the
abuse they endured, they still made the decision to take
the lives of two people. I do not believe vigilante
justice should be rewarded. I am a sexual abuse survivor.
I could have made a similar decision, but instead I

(39:52):
have gone into the field of social work in order
to help others process their past and live productive lives.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I'm not sure I believe they should be parolled. M.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Well, that's a thought provoking an informed DM cricket.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, we're so sorry, and yeah, you're an angel and
talk about taking your pain and making it your purpose.
You know, that is the most admirable thing. And by
the way, you're not alone in that.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I can't tell you honestly, Like sometimes the breakthrough comes
from the breakdown, right, you know, that is just the
reality of it. And you know, to your point, the
Menandez brothers suffered really unspeakable, unspeakable things, but they too
were not alone. So does every single person who is

(40:41):
the victim of something unspeakable have the free reigns to murder?

Speaker 3 (40:46):
It's complicated.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
Yeah, And we have another DM and this one's from
Jess and I think it kind of goes into what
you were saying, there, Stephanie, have.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Something reader very quickly.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
This is from Jess in analysis of the Menandaz Brothers.
It's often mentioned we always go back to release everyone
who's been abused, and do they get extra attention due
to the media shows.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
I feel like the conversation.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
Shouldn't be does everyone who was abused get free? And
it should be how do we give everyone the access
to information to give them a fair shot at advocating
for themselves? Thanks Jess, jes Man so well said that
gave me a chill. She's so right, really good. Yeah,
that is so that's so right, Because she's right. I

(41:30):
have been saying, oh, you know, just because they've been
in shows like you know, there's if you look at
the prison system, I'm sure probably a third, if not more,
of the men and women in prison have some sort
of abuse history. They have a story, right, they have
some kind of backstory, maybe similar to the Meninda's brothers.
Why aren't they getting the same shots that the Menanda's

(41:51):
brothers are getting?

Speaker 3 (41:52):
And just is right? That shouldn't be the conversation.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
It should be, Okay, they can advocate for themselves, how
do we get everybody else to advocate for themselves.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I think that's right, and I don't know the answer
to that, and let's.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Have that conversation. Yeah, it's a good starter. Bring it.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
Is it better internet access to the prison so you know,
is it more resources for counseling while they're in prison,
because the point of prison. In prison is rehabilitation, right,
that's the point of prison. If we're just shoving them
in there to fight each other, that's not really a rehabilitation, right.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
I don't know that everyone agrees with you, Boddy. Actually
I know many people who wouldn't agree with you. Okay,
that's that that's what prison should be. I agree with you,
I think it should be, but I certainly know what
what do you think.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
I think it is?

Speaker 9 (42:39):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Punishment? Yeah, oh yeah, I'm sure period the end. Oh okay.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
See, I look at rehabilitation first and then punishment second.
Obviously you need to be punished for your crimes, but
you can be punished and rehabilitated at the same time.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
I think that's why I have to agree. Otherwise, what
are we doing.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
We're just punishing and then releasing, punishing, releasing, and then
the problem continues and maybe to add to Jess's point,
maybe the real question is, and maybe we're doing it
just by virtue of this conversation a little bit, is
have the conversation of getting the tools prior to committing
the act. Right, So listen, nobody is immune to some

(43:18):
of these awful things. It's really heart wrenching and it's
it's not okay period period. However, if you find yourself
in this situation as a victim, you know, what are
the tools and how can a person move forward without them?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Right?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
So, maybe having that decision to murder or to commit
a crime because of what's been done to you might
be taken off the table. And I don't that's a
big esoteric question I recognize, but I'd love for us
to effort to at least keep the conversation about it moving.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
Yeah, I would too. I think it's I'm learning a lot,
like especially when we have like just on too about
counseling and how to advocate for yourself. And it kind
of goes into what this Jess was saying, Oh my god,
their book named Jess. Yeah, is it just Caplin?

Speaker 3 (44:08):
Is it just?

Speaker 9 (44:10):
Is he just?

Speaker 5 (44:11):
But you know, in talking to Jess Kaplan, who is
you know, the licensed therapist that we have on Jess
knows best right learning in talking to her, I have
learned so many tools. I'm still on a waiting list
to see a therapist. I'm still on a waiting list.
It's been I think six months. I'm very very sorry
for that, and I wish.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
It's I wish that also wasn't as common as it is.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
I'm sorry for you personally, and I'm sorry for this.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
I'm okay, but imagine if I was suffering from some
kind of trauma and I needed to talk to somebody,
like it's crazy. I feel like we need a national,
national push for people to become therapists and go to
school to be you know, could become therapists because I
think we have a shortage in this country.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Or we all have to just be able to hear
each other's stories and even if they're very different from
each other, and that we become a safe space for
each other to share.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
We do not heal alone.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Sometimes just sharing your story does the trick, and then
you realize the next person's like, oh my goodness, me too.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
I see this all day.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I'm gonna have lived it firsthand myself, and you know,
we're all works in progress, myself specifically included, so there's
no claim to fame here of greatness by any means,
but I do know I have the luxury of talking
to you guys, and you know big everybody has that,
so please you know eight eight eight three one crime
Safe space.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
That's right, Well, stick around True Crime Tonight. At the
top of the hour. Week are continuing with your talk
backs and everything else to come. We have Ebstein and
more true Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanieleidecker here with Courtney Armstrong.
Body move in and listen. If you've missed any of
the first hour of the show, it is no problem.
You could always catch us after as a podcast. By
the way, thank you for downloading the podcast. You know,
the numbers have been really extraordinary and we really really

(46:19):
appreciate the support.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
So so thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
And also if you're listening live, please call us eight
eight eight.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Three one Crime. We just love to hear your voice.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
But we have been getting some great dms too, so
we're going to try to get through as many as
possible Tonight because it's talked Back Tuesday, So let's start
with our next talkback Sam.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
Hey, this is Jeff calling from Connecticut.

Speaker 11 (46:44):
I love listening to your show, and you do such
a good job of explaining all the stories.

Speaker 5 (46:48):
Whenever I listen, I wonder how each of you individually
became so interested in true crime.

Speaker 8 (46:52):
I would love to hear your story.

Speaker 9 (46:54):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
What a great caller from the Numbings State. Thanks Jeff.
The Nutmeg State? Is that what? Connecticut is a Nutmeg state?

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Yeah, it's both the connect Yes, it's the Nutmeg State.
And then also I think it's specifically Hartford, where I
went to college, is the insurance capital of the country.
There's like more insurance companies. Is this very sexy stuff?

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Listen? That is the most boring states for Connecticut. Connecticut
kids are fun. I went to Yukon, so I feel
particularly close to all Connecticut. Yeah, I've never been there.
Go Huskies. Who wants to start? Go you? Okay? How

(47:39):
did I get into two crime?

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Started reading a lot of books when I was in
high school because my mom was into Dominic Dunn and
sort of the more scandalous versions, and then that led
me to serial killers et cetera, and I got very
interested in the books left it aside, but I really
plowed through a lot of books for a lot of years.

(48:02):
And then it was working at each True Hollywood Story,
and they decided when I was there, to bring back
the two hour investigative shows. And my job was not
to work on the individual shows, it was to work
on the series as a whole.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
And so that just meant I got to do really
deep research before.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Things turned into shows. And I got pretty compelled.

Speaker 5 (48:26):
Yet that would be such a fun job. I would
love that kind of job. That would be like research.
Oh my gosh, you would love that.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Yeah, I would love that.

Speaker 5 (48:35):
So I grew up my mom was a true grand fan.
Like it sounds kind of crazy, but my mom would
read these books and they always had like these really
like terrible pictures in the middle of them. And I
don't know why, but my curiosity just I couldn't. I couldn't.
I wanted to learn about this stuff. I was from

(48:56):
a little kid. And then you know, she would watch
you know what was it Unsolved Mysteries and we would
all sit under the afghan, you know, the seventies style,
and eat our popcorn and watch unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
And then.

Speaker 5 (49:13):
A Paradise Loss came out, which is of course about
the West Memphis three and I was like, oh my god,
this is like horrible.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
I need to find out more. And then it just
kind of snowball from there.

Speaker 5 (49:24):
And then of course Luca Mgnada and Don't uf with
Cats came out and I got some attention on me,
and here I am really that's it. I've just always
kind of been fascinated by. You know, what I'm really
interested in when it comes to your crime is that
I'm really interested about the science about how people get caught,

(49:44):
how do you get caught doing really bad things? And
I'm really interested in that science part of it. And
then I'm also really interested in the psyche of people
that you know, commit atros atrocious murders, like just insane,
crazy murderers. I'm not talking about like the passionate you know,

(50:04):
you're getting a fight with your boyfriend and you kill them.
I'm talking about the planned mass murder, serial killer.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
I'm just fascinated, see, And I would say I'm probably
the polar opposite because I am very compelled by what
brings a quote ordinary person and what you're saying not
in a one moment fit of rage, although those two
and just thinking what circumstances brought people into that circumstance

(50:33):
where someone ends up dead and.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
Somebody that's very fascinating too, for sure. Yeah, and incredibly.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Earlier you had said, Stephanie, about how do we sort
of help people where murder isn't the big option on
the table, And it's always really interesting to me, like,
especially when planning is involved. How did that become that
that was your best idea of how to solve whatever
problem you were in anyway, Stephanie.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I mean, yeah, I have sort of a backward way
into it. I was always working in content and documentaries
and making TV shows and have always just been somebody
who watched all of it.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
If it was a dateline, whatever it was, I've seen
it all.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I watched all the forensics files, the unsolved mysteries. So
I'm just coming at it from an audience member. I'm
personally really into the justice part of it and the
sliding doors to your point of what were the circumstances
that could have been avoided? You know, sometimes you know,
a crime is really just a perfect storm that people

(51:38):
saw come in and like so in retrospect, in hindsight,
when sometimes we look at cases that are not in
our lives. You know, it's really easy for all of
us to look at a case from an outsider looking
in and see, oh, there was a red flag there.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
That's the moment that they maybe should have shut.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
The door or or or or you know, sometimes in
our own life it's a little harder to see that stuff.
So it gives us an objective look at things that
have extremely high stakes. And I think grief is something
that's really connects people, honestly, So I think it's a
way for people to heal together and also to identify,

(52:17):
you know, ways that we can keep each other safe.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
I like that.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
You know what I'm really interested in you guys. I
want to know how you got into true crime. Give
us a call eighty eight thirty one crime. What's your
origin story?

Speaker 14 (52:28):
Like?

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Why are you listening?

Speaker 6 (52:29):
What?

Speaker 3 (52:29):
What?

Speaker 5 (52:29):
What attracts you? Because like you know, when we go
to crime come, we see all these women, it's just
women after women.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
What is it?

Speaker 5 (52:38):
What is it about true crime that fascinates us and
keeps us here? Give us a call eighty to eight
thirty one crime, or leave us a talk back on
the iHeartRadio LAP I really do want to know, you know.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
I have a feeling on this too.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
And this has been debated sometimes people say the true
crime audience is like what's the word shot in for hour?

Speaker 3 (52:54):
What is it when you don't see.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Somebody else's life and you're like, well, I guess you
know life is good for me? Ha ha ha ha,
And I hate that. I couldn't disagree more. I think,
in large part, why the audience, except for Jeff from Connecticut,
which we love, why there is such a strong female audiences.
I think there's a lot of empathy involved, and it

(53:16):
gives us all a place to watch and listen and
hear other people's stories and with empathetic hearts wide open,
kind of imagine what those circumstances would be, like what
would you do in that situation? How would you handle
it in that situation?

Speaker 3 (53:32):
And I think that's.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Very powerful and you can kind of identify the who
what wears whens without having to necessarily experience it for yourself.
You know, again, we will make fun of me. I'm
pretty impressionable, but I think I would survive the knife
fight now because I feel like I have been a
meshed in so many harrowing tales and with people that
are extraordinary. And by the way, when you do and

(53:54):
I've said this many many times, when you see somebody
sit down for an interview who shares their most tramatic
moment and has the ability and the wherewithal to brush
their teeth and put their clothes on that day and
come and sit down for an interview, it is incredibly inspiring,
inspiring in a way I can't quite describe it, like
your DNA changes a little bit each time. And I

(54:16):
can say this I have done. I've been in more
kitchen tables than most people throughout America, and I have
done a lot of interviews and from all walks of
life and scary scary people and happy people, sad people, tragedy,
And I have never ever once walked away from an
interview where I thought, can't figure that one out.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
That sucks. It's always like you have to hear from
the person and you see the cards that have been
dealt and it does make a lot of sense, even
if the action is so wrong and deplorable, you're like, oh,
kind of went off the rails on that one. Where
did that left turn come? From.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
But like the totality of a person isn't just that
one event, right, So what are the things that were
or what we were missing or that weren't being talked
about or being kept a secret or shame was keeping
you from doing something else? And and and I think
true crime can be really actionable in that regard. And
I don't know That's why I like the community and

(55:16):
the chit chat about it. It's not because we like
talking crime, yeah we didn't. We just like talking to
each other about important stuff.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
Yeah. And I don't think any of us take any
pleasure in people's misfortune.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Like you know, I don't.

Speaker 5 (55:28):
I used to get Sean front from watching like Jerry Springer,
but not like true crime, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (55:34):
But like, did you guys work on Jerry.

Speaker 5 (55:35):
Springer that I worked on the Sally Jesse Rafaeh And
you did, And so I take pleasure in that like
watching people, because it was entertainment. But I don't look
at you as true crime. True crime is like entertainment.
I look at it more as you know, learning and
a community and growing and and but I don't I

(55:57):
definitely don't sit down and go Okay, let's watch you know,
somebody get murdered today.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
I definitely know, and people sometimes have said that.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
I've seen that in articles, for example, and even at
the Sally Jesse Raphael Show, the talk show that I
worked at, it was really moving.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I saw people like get it. You know sometimes when a.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Person's on camera and then they either see themselves back
they it clicks and or even if that seemed like
a wild time of talk shows, people being brought together,
maybe not the ones that are throwing chairs per se,
but in other really real ways. I witnessed people's lives change, sure,
really for the better. And you know, sometimes there's crazy

(56:36):
stuff of course, and this was very early days, but
I don't know. There's something about people sharing their stories
and other people allowing the space to hear other people's
stories that can be really powerful.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
Yeah, and that lets you know you're not alone to
you might identify with that story.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Who doesn't. Yeah, that's important stuff. I like it.

Speaker 5 (56:55):
Thank you for that talk back by stuff that was
very interesting. What have we gotten next there?

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Sam?

Speaker 6 (57:01):
Okay, this is great from Utah again. And you have
got to clear up this name thing for me once
and for all, because it's driven me crazy. From the
onset of this podcast, and it drives me crazy on
the daily. So your segment, now, you guys are telling
your stories and your name has confinused me from day one,
Like it sounds like you guys are saying body, thank
your body, the physical body. And I've even like thought

(57:25):
that your guests and some things is confused by the
name body moving, body movement.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
Uh okay, So yeah, it's body like your like your body,
your your physical body. But it's it's from a song
and it's called body Moven from the BC Boys. And
it was an anonymous uh profile that I created to
when we were investigating the Luca Mgnata situation where he

(57:54):
was killing cats online and I had been using my
my real name is Deanna, and I had been using
my Deanna account to track him and whatnot, and I
moved over to an anonymous account so that you know,
my Facebook feed was my friends didn't see all those
stupid stuff I was doing.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
And so I created another account.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
And then when I when I did the Netflix show
Don't Have with Cats, they really ran with the body
Moven pseudonyme, and so when when I do things now
nobody knows who Diana is, But everybody knows who body
Moving is, you know, in the true crime kind of sphere.
So that's why I continue to use the body move
and Moniker only because it's kind of like a stage name,

(58:37):
even though I'm not like a famous person stage it's
just kind of like what people how people, It's kind
of it's my nickname, let's say that. And so when
you hear people say body move in it's from the
BC Boys song Body Moven, and it's just kind.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Of I didn't know the BC Boys song body movement,
what are you kidding shit sentiment? Yeah, No, I didn't
know that until this very second. I just thought it
was like everybody you always say you how you describe
it as like I think everybody so body and that
you're moving like you're moving on up or you're moving

(59:17):
to places and and and shaking and going.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
Now it's it's a BC Boys song, and I'm a
huge BC Boys fan. I love the Boys, and that
song happened to be playing when I was creating this account.
Oh yeah, and so I just was like, okay, I'll
just use body Moving and I spelled it kind of weird,
and that's just kind of.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Oh, that's so great. It's a new fun fact that
I didn't know, So that's so riot. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
I spent maybe two months of my life before our
show launched, training myself how to pronounce your name. So
because of the way it's written b A U d I,
there's very few. I only lived in Queen's the first
but pivotal ten years of my life, and then I
moved to the beautiful net Make State, but somewheres and

(01:00:07):
I would.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
Body, hey body, hey body.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
I couldn't stop doing it, so I would be walking
around in my kitchen body moving, like just articulating so
I can get it right.

Speaker 5 (01:00:19):
Just think of like if you're if you're dancing like
we do during our commercial breaks, your body is moving right,
So that's yeah, it's just body like your body, like
everybody has a body.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
On, body moving spelling through me off, I know. Well,
I had to.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Spell it weird because it needed to be a name
and not you know, Facebook was different back then. This
was like in twenty ten, okay, and you had to
have like a name.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
You couldn't be b O d Y. I had to
be be a ud I. So I had to spell
it weird, and it just kind of top off. Did you, Stephanie,
have any interesting nicknames growing up? Only lie Deecker? Oh? Really,
that's how most people would refer to me.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
I'm calling you now, what did you was a nickname?

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
They called me bones growing up because I was like
very skinny. Oh did it bug you? Or was it fine?
It bothered me?

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Fat, and didn't have to worry about it anymore. Call
me Bones any day of the week.

Speaker 14 (01:01:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I do not take that back. I don't want I'm worry.
I'm perfect. Stay with us.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
This is a True Crime Tonight. It is talk Back Tuesday.
We are hearing from you. We are loving your talkbacks
and your d ms. Keep all of them coming, or
if you're listening live, give us a holler. Eight a
eighty three to one crime True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio. We've
been talking true crime all the time. I'm Steph here
with Courtney and Body and Sam in the control room
and listen, we're a little drunk with power tonight because
it's just us whoo and.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
It's been really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
By the way, So we miss Utaha of course, and
we miss you Adam, of course. We're just trying to
hold down the fort on our own and keep those
talkbacks coming.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Call us eight at eight to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Three one crime, or we can go to one right now. Actually,
what's the talkback next? Sam Hi?

Speaker 15 (01:02:22):
I am Steve from Matriie Louisiana. Last evening, you all
mentioned how Fergie retracted her line denouncing Epstein because she
owed him money allegedly, allegedly allegedly. Well, that reminds me
of the powerful line from the movie Sound of Freedom.
God's children are not for sale.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
You are awesome.

Speaker 15 (01:02:45):
Thank you for what you do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
I love him, You're awesome. I love God's children, not
for zale.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
I mean, Fergie seems to be a troublemaker in her
own life. I feel like she may kind of a
practice of stepping in it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Yeah, so this is.

Speaker 5 (01:03:04):
She was always a wild one right of the wrong family.
She was like she didn't really conform right, so she
didn't kind of like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
She was married to Andrew, remember she was bestdies with
Diana and she had that whole tongue like that toe
sucking incident where sure did sucking on another man's toe
and paparazzi caught that. By the way, talk about different
times like if that was the worst of it. The
things that we see now, I mean, her literally sucking

(01:03:33):
on a man's toe was world news.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
It really was.

Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
It was on the front page of like the Star
and the Enquirer and like us.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, so but yeah, it's a funny thing.
What were you going to say, Courtney?

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
Okay, So I was trying to place it, so I
very quickly did a little search. But I can tell
you that as recent as August eighteenth, there was a
huge thing in the Daily Mail. In one year or ago,
the inside story of Sarah Ferguson's quote hoe sucking scandal.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
Oh my goodness, Andrew Lowney.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
Reveals pictures of the Duchess with her financial advisor lover,
and it talks about her rubbin lotion on his bald
head and she's topless.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
But fifty five page spread of those pictures.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
WHOA fifty five pages A is not easy to be
stopped by popul patsy. Now, so look, I'm going to
read a DM. Oh yeah, you're going to read Okay,
I'm going.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
To read it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
I had practice to was one in advance. But it's
a good one and I can't wait to talk about it.
So this is a direct quote from it's about Epstein,
and this is from Tanja, and she's asking via DM,
so you guys were discussing Epstein and his island. I
haven't been quote on the island, but I have been

(01:04:50):
by the island a few times on my vacation.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Oh last year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
She actually I actually snorkeled around it, but I didn't
know at the time that this was the island. Felt
a little lucky yucky after I found out. But I
wanted to send you a few pictures, and she sent
us a few photos.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
They which are such pictures. By the way, right, I
had I had never seen it. I had never really
looked it up, so I had never really seen it.
For whatever reason, it's so much more normal than I imagined.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
I don't know what it is it does. It looks
a little bit like paradise. It has an American flag.
It looks as if if I was painting a picture
of an island, this would be it, like with just
straight up palm trees, kind of beautiful American flag, blue water.

(01:05:43):
Looks like it would be excellent for snorkeling. I might
add Tanja and like a paradise. Yeah, the kind of
place you would love to go and have a quick visit.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
I think I imagined like barbed wire.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
I was gonna say, no, I really was not cages necessarily,
but like barbed wire and like armed guards, because you know,
Lisa Bryant was on our show and she had mentioned
now when the when Tanja was there, obviously, I you know,
Epstein's been gone. It's you know, they're not armed guards.
But back when he was still alive and on the island,

(01:06:17):
you know, there were guards and whatnot that pulled up.
Remember she pulled up to the pier and there were gods.
So I was picturing like barbed I was I was
literally picturing like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Institution or something. I don't know what I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
No, I and there, I think there was some of that.
According to reports too, that yes, once you were actually
on the island, you did feel as though you were
safe air quotes. Now, safety could also be perceived as security,
which could perceived as you're not getting out of here
without our permission, which is kind of a daunting thought.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
But yeah, it does look quite beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
So you could see how so many women were so
you know, easily brought there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Oh yeahy wouldn't you want to go? This looks like
the greatest vacation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
And next thing you know, you can't get off, and
your passport is gone and Gilain Maxwell has flown you
by helicopters, so there's no easy route out. The phones
are tapped and there's cameras everywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Now what I don't know? Well, thank you for the
talk back and the photos by the way, because I
really the photos are so good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
I'm so yeahy, it really was, and I mean it
looks lush and welcoming, yeah, and it just it was
surprising how quotes normal like you guys said.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
If you're like me and you've never seen photos of
the island goal, look because I think you'll be surprised. Like,
and let me know, am I crazy? Am I the
only one that thought it was barbed wire and cement?

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
For some reason?

Speaker 9 (01:07:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:07:46):
I was just not expecting the pictures that we got.
So thank you so much for the pictures, tanject, because
I was literally surprised.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
But now I know. We have a talkback Sam.

Speaker 8 (01:07:56):
Hi, everyone, This is Julie from Omaha, Nebraska, and we
go to the president pardoning Ditty or Blaine. He has
nothing to gain by pardoning either. Did he have nothing
to offer him? And Blaine already said that he was
friends with Epstein but didn't participate in anything sexual, so
giving them a pardon would do nothing for him.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
They're moore. I don't think he will.

Speaker 8 (01:08:20):
Also, would you post or tell us where you get
your weight to poster vest?

Speaker 14 (01:08:25):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
Oh my goodness, we're wearing them right now. I just
put mine on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
We're doing this little reui and with our dancing with
some dumbbells during the commercials to get in a couple
of armlifts.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
It's a slow burn, slow burn. Here the vests.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
We look like we're security ourselves right now, you do.
I got mine off of Amazon and it was extremely
inexpensive and it's twelve pounds.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
What about your thoughts? So mine's been hanging around my ass.
My husband probably got it fifteen years ago. And I
will tell you because I started out and it was
way too heavy. And I started using it because I
lean into the mic because everyone is so compelling between
Steph and Body and Adam and Sam and Taha, so'd
lean over and I gave myself tennis elbow.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
So I started using it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
And it was ridiculously forty five pounds, and Steffan even
pointed you didn't know how heavy, but you're like, that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
Is too heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Yeah, it looked you were like wearing a jacket like
that you were getting shorter.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Sure, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
So now it's fifteen pounds in the back, keep the
back straight, ten pounds counterweight in the front, and also
Amazon a long time ago.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
But right, we should just note that Courtney, you're wearing
a lot of weight. That's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
You have the front and the back. I think I'm
twelve total all front and back. Yeah, and that's probably
right and totally totally sufficient. I this is fine for me, honestly,
Like this one. Since I took the weight out of it,
I can wear it. I mean I've worn it some
almost the entire shows, so it's not you wear it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Yeah, I wear it every night. Yeah. So it's just
I need to get one. I don't have one, So
we're going to get you one. We missed the whole
other part of the talkback Trump right.

Speaker 5 (01:10:21):
Oh yeah, we had talked last night like it would
be ini. I had kind of opined that it would
be insane for him to consider, you know, pardoning either one,
you know, on the heels of release the epscene files
and all the you know, the ruckus from the American
public that want this information. It's being withheld from us

(01:10:42):
seemingly from the administration. I don't know if that's true enough,
but seemingly from the Trump administration.

Speaker 10 (01:10:48):
And you know.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
To the talkback caller said that, you know, she really
doesn't see any reason that Trump would.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
And I kind of agree, like, yeah, would be crazy.
What's the upside?

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
I think the only reason why it would be interesting
in a Gilain Maxwell case is that perhaps there's pressure
from larger sources that are pressuring, whether it's the administration
or maybe Gilaine in herself is still connected in some
big way. If there is in fact blackmail at the core,
if that's what's being speculated about, if that's accurate, then

(01:11:21):
maybe there's just a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Larger pressure on the Gilaane Maxwell thing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
As for the ditty part of it, I think the
only reason why anyone would pardon ditty is just to
sort of make the Epstein thing seem like no big deal.
If we're making it okay and these are not big deals,
and you know, oh Diddy, he doesn't need to believe
you behind bars, he's been overcharged by a zealous this
or a zealous that. Then it kind of does minimize

(01:11:49):
just this idea of sex trafficking or you know, being
violent with women or using women as property to some
degree and degrading them. Maybe that's like not that big
of a crime, which I think would just minimize it
for any survivor of abuse. But again, this is not

(01:12:10):
specifically about Trump and this administration. We know there have
been many administrations prior that have had access to these files.
And you know, if we're believing the rumors, which we
don't know what to believe, it seems like, you know,
all the players, from all the sides, from all the
things are all in it. The only reason why it
gets specifically tied to Trump is that he did.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
He really did campaign on it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
So it's really just because he said he would not
because he's in a uniquely precarious spot as the president.
But rather I just feel like he said he would,
therefore he should.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Yeah, and you said he wouldn't gain anything. But I
think Trump, along with any other politician, would probably put
a poll in the field to see, you know, does
did he have a huge fan base that maybe would
be helpful of voters.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Correct, that could be a thing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
And you also mentioned that he wouldn't gain anything from
Gillian Maxwell because she already said yes, there was a friendship,
nothing inappropriate. That's a very nice clump of words, and
you know, maybe whether they were real or imagined on
Gillian Maxwell's part, if there was potential for her to
say another set of words, then maybe let her out,

(01:13:30):
keep her happy, hope she goes home to the UK
and call it a day.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
So I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
I think what you just said there is really significant.
Now to the ditty point though, if Trump isn't running
for another term, so what would his benefit be for that?

Speaker 9 (01:13:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
So his term is going to end, he will have
then served too, and unless there's some you know, new surprise,
it would mean that he would have no real benefit
and would be over the age eighty at that point
and probably wouldn't need as many of Diddy's supporters to
be voting for him. But I you know, everything's upside down,

(01:14:09):
so what do I know? What do I know? I
do think though the Gelay Maxwell thing is very true.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
What you just said though that does resonate.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
I shouldn't say it's true, but it resonates the idea of, hey,
look I might get a lower security prison. Sure, I'll
say whatever you want, and if that changes, I'll say
whatever I want. You know, if it's at the core
of it, is this dibble dabble. And by the way,

(01:14:37):
let's just take the administration out of it. I think
it's beyond that. So what is the beyond that question mark?
And you know I keep saying it. I think in
these coming weeks this is again going to continue to
heat up. Let's remember the victims of banned together. They
say that they themselves will release a list on their

(01:14:58):
own if in fact nothing is found or able to
happen via the House Oversight Committee. The House Oversight Committee
who met with Pam Bondy today, they are trying to
get that two hundred and eighteenth signature to happen as
soon as we are, you know, not in a shutdown
that should happen pretty swiftly.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
Is that a part of this puzzle? We do not know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
And if those two things don't happen, what happens then
Gilaine Maxwell?

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Is she is she safe?

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
I don't know if I'm her, I would feel like
a bit of a sitting duck as well.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
I would too.

Speaker 5 (01:15:35):
And you know, the Supreme Court turned down her bid
to overturn her conviction. Right just recently last week, she
filed for habeas corpus relief. She was hoping to get
out under that prosecutorial uh you know goal that, yeah,
the loophole. Basically Jeffrey Epstein when he was convicted in
Florida said, you know, is part of the agreement that

(01:15:58):
none of his co conspirators would be gone after And
so she's trying to you know, fall in under that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
In the Supreme courts that know, they said no.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
But again, why were you Why would you need a
co conspirator deal if there's nothing to conspire over right,
and if there really was nothing in these files, and
then just release these nothings files. Put a pin in it, like,
let us all just say, like, what that's true? Don't
give us repeat information, give us all of it, and
we can decide if it's a big boo hiss. But

(01:16:29):
I think the fact that everybody is worthholding it for
as long as they are is what is making everybody
feel like there is something in.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
Fact bigger there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
But it's a it's a fair point in terms of
what's the what I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
I don't know that we're ever going to find out.
I really don't know. We're going to find out soon. No, no, no, no, no,
don't you dare say that.

Speaker 5 (01:16:47):
I think, Susan, I have it in my head that
you know, all these distractions and I'm using air quotes
right now because these are very real things that are happening.
But all these distractions are just going to keep us
off of the Epstein files.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:17:00):
But it's funny and every controversial you know, post that
a member of the media makes or a member of
the government makes. People on X are like, Okay, release
the files because they know it's a distraction. It's very interesting,
But keep it here.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Stick around.

Speaker 5 (01:17:12):
We're gonna We've got more to dig into. We've got
more dms to read, and more talkbacks to listen to
True Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
This is our last segment, How did this happen? The
night has flown by. I'm Stephanie Leidecker. Here with Courtney
Armstrong and Body Moving on Talkback Tuesday. We are missing
our Taha tonight. He's not feeling well and Adam as well.
We miss him as well. But you know we're holding
down the fort right, doing our best nodding their heads. Yeah,

(01:17:56):
so please. In fact, we have a caller right now.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
Ooh a caller.

Speaker 14 (01:18:00):
Hi, Hi Alex Hello, Well, yeah, I have a question
about in cell culture. Oh, thank you, I haven't written
down if I could read it out loud, yeah, of it,
of course, perfect. So in cell culture has further pushed
a violence against women, and it seems like this has
really skyrocketed within the last few years, like in the
twenty twenties, because of people like Andrew k and Joe Rogan.

(01:18:23):
But unfortunately, there has always been violence against women. But
when I try to think of figures who have had
similar roles in the past, like in the nineties or
the early two thousands, my mind goes blank. Have there
been other movements similar to in cell culture that influenced
crime in the past.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
What a great question. That's a really good question, great one.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
Yeah, so yeah, I mean the Red men's rights activism.
It's like the MRA movement of the nineteen seventies. They
were they emerged from the equal rights movements of the
late sixties and whatnot. In the they emerged in response
basically to the feminism that is, you know, being introduced

(01:19:02):
and whatnot, and it has been absorbed by in cell
culture today. But the MRA argued that feminism disadvantaged men. Okay,
so this is when men started blaming women just for
having the same rights they do. And that kind of
was like, I think maybe the springboard for the current

(01:19:22):
in cell movement when you add in all the red
pill ideology that happened in the early two thousands because
of the Matrix, Right, do you remember the movie The Matrix. Well,
the red pill is like this philosophy within that manosphere
that in cells adopted and built upon, and there's like
this alleged male oppression where taking the red pill means

(01:19:45):
accepting the truth that feminism has granted women excessive power
and that men are oppressed. So it's I don't think
there's like one specific group. I think it's like a
combination of culture and time and like kind of like
a in a pressure cooker, so to speak. And then
you have the Internet now where you have people being

(01:20:06):
kind of like heightened up like Andrew Tate and those
kinds of people. Also males right.

Speaker 4 (01:20:12):
Right, who is not an inceel, but who speaks to
and profits grossly from I'm talking a lot of cash
that the manosphere, these alpha males that you mentioned, target
in cells specifically for them to try and black of
better words, pull themselves out of their bootstraps. And one

(01:20:33):
more thing on the anti feminist, it's really it's a
perspective that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:39):
It's as life as a zero sum game.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
So if women start to do a little better, aka
can have a job or have if women can have
their own bank accounts, if they get to win, therefore
the men are losing. Hence the anger, hence everything that
you were talking about body.

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
Right, Like they think of this as a slice of pie, right,
or like a pie, and if I get a piece,
you get less, right, But that's not how life is.
Life is not a pie. Life is a line. There's
no you could have as much pie as you want.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
I was gonna say, it's many pies. Yeah, it's many.

Speaker 5 (01:21:14):
Pies, and me having you know, when I was born,
my mom couldn't even have a credit card, you know
what I mean, Like this is this is the I
was born in the seventies. My mom couldn't even have
a credit card. Like it's crazy, wild wild, and and
me having a credit card does not make you any
less of a man. I just it's just not a thing.

(01:21:35):
But many men, not many. I shouldn't say that, because
I don't think it's many. Some men think it does, though,
And I think this pressure cooker and then we you know,
now we got the Internet where you can communicate freely
and anonymously, right, and that just adds fire to that
pressure cooker, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
And point too.

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
And also Covid. I put a lot one covid.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
Also, yeah, covid ovid lockdown and a lot of people
just being locked up and kind of getting socialized in
that way.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Alex, are you with us still or Sam? Hung up on?
You got it?

Speaker 14 (01:22:12):
Yes, I'm here. It was so interesting. That makes a
lot of sense. I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
I mean, I I just don't think there's Yeah, I
just don't think there's one specific like you know, root
of it. I think it's many different things, you know
what I mean? Like, I just don't feel like you
can point to one moment in time and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Say, oh that that was it. I think it's a
it's a for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:22:34):
It's like a bunch of different data points over time.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
But Alex, thank you so much.

Speaker 14 (01:22:39):
Abow the cycle keeps going.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Yeah, it kind of redevelops, right, which is why it's
so good that we're chatting about it, because even Alex,
you know in your world too, did you know much
about it in cells now?

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
She yeah, she's not here.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
Yeah I didn't, but if you caught the last thing
she said, it's sad that the cycle continues. And yeah,
I couldn't agree with you more. I think that's the
sentiment we all hold, and it does. It continues. And
to Body's earlier point, just with the Internet, it's just
it's faster, it's compressed, it's so much more widely available,

(01:23:14):
and no longer do you need to go looking for it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
It is looking for you if you are a young man.

Speaker 4 (01:23:21):
And I swear I don't say that to be a
fear monger, no, but I am afraid with as we've
been producing this series, this podcast series, it's really frightening.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
It's just scary. It's scary and it's really illuminating.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Right, yeah, scary, it sure is, and maybe that's the thing, right,
you have to illuminate in the dark, right, So this
is a light way of shedding light on it. But
what's interesting is if, in fact, you know what you
just said, body was so clear about the fact that, oh,
as the sex is male and females of equalized, that

(01:24:01):
means that there's less four. But yet it's funny like
it's really young men that are the starting place for this,
or at least are the ones that are being recruited
the most to really probably haven't had to be in
the workplace where they're fighting for wages, et cetera. You know,
that's well, that's also what's so daunting about it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
You know, I think they're looking at the trad movement.
They're looking at the traditional wife movement, which is kind
of like it's not intel adjacent. And I please, if
you're a trad out there, I am not. I'm not
trying to be insulting, but you know, there's a movement
of women who it's called the you know, the trad
movement basically, and they really maintain that women should stay

(01:24:41):
at home and raise the children. And the degradation of
our culture is because nobody's at home with the kids
and it should be the woman's responsibility to do so.
And they dress very prim and proper, and you know
whatnot and I think I think the young men are
seeing these and by the way, these are young women
that are doing this. I think there's seeing that these
young women are doing this, and that kind of just

(01:25:02):
fuels it even more.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
You know, it's so interesting because if you want to
be a home wife and be home and I applaud
bless you know, and if you want to go and
be a publisher, go in the workplace and do something else,
God bless. Like why are we so divided over that?
You know, each one to their own. But I guess also, well,

(01:25:24):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:25:24):
Because the radicalization happens because each side has their radicals, right,
and those radical people are saying, you shouldn't stay home
and raise your kids, you should be out working and
how dare you? And then the trads are like, well
you should, you shouldn't be working.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
You should.

Speaker 5 (01:25:41):
You know, it's instead of just going instead of just saying, hey,
do what you want.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
Well, I think a radical everybody has a choice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
Like when you know, everybody's living their living their best
life to the best of their ability with the circumstances
that they're in. Not everybody can decide if they get
to stay home to raise their children or does have
to go to work. You know those are that's not
always on the menu for everyone. So you know, easy
on the judgment from all. But I hear the convo

(01:26:09):
and so it is really it's divisive.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
I guess it is. The bottom line. Yeah, it's very
I that was such a good call, Alex.

Speaker 5 (01:26:16):
Thank you so much, and I kind of want to
rewind it when we're done and listen to it again
and like write it down because that was like a
really good question.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
That was really good. See she's so good at reading
out loud too, she said she's a question down, so
that it was excellent. I'd be like, yeah, come on,
you know, I'm still recovering. I know. That was great.
Thank you so much for that call. So do we
have another talk.

Speaker 16 (01:26:41):
About Hi, ladies, this is Chari from Oregon. I have
a question about your True Crime and Chill podcast. Will
that be a separate podcast or will be a part
of this podcast. I came across you guys recently and
I just love your show. Thanks for all you do.
Have a great evening, we are.

Speaker 3 (01:27:01):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 (01:27:02):
Yeah. So True Crime and Chill is just a segment
we do and it's typically every Wednesday. We did skip
last week because I can't remember why we skipped it,
but we did.

Speaker 4 (01:27:12):
Because adolescence, which is what we're we will be talking
about next week. It's a four parter and we wanted
to give people two weekends of time to watch it
or two weeks of time.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
And here's the stick.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
It has to be interactive, Like we're not Ciscal and Ebert,
So us all watching something together and then the three
of us telling how we thought about it is such
a lame segment. So unless you guys are weighing in,
that's the conversation, right.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
The True Crime and Chill.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Is supposed to be just a way for us all
to have a larger community combo. You know, the three
of us can talk about it. But like we're not
film directors, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Yeah, I'm not like I don't know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
We can tell you if we liked it or we
hated it, and when we thought of it, of course,
of course, of course. But I think the spirit is
you would be joining that as well, and Adolescence is
really one of those that has so much to discuss
and unpack that we hope you really will check it
out and then dm us or give us some talkbacks

(01:28:16):
or give us a call to tell us what you think,
because it's a real conversation starter.

Speaker 5 (01:28:20):
And just a reminder to your point, Stephanie, we are
reviewing and talking about adolescence on Thursday of this week,
so True Crime and Chill will be Thursday this week.
I think we have something special planned for tomorrow that
I'm maybe not supposed to be talking about. Shit, I
don't know, and so it's been moved to Thursday, so
we have two more days. I'm not going to say

(01:28:42):
much more. So we're going to be talking our in
doing our True Crime and Chill segment on Thursday, So
thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
We have a surprise tomorrow. Is it my birthday? Is
it Sam's birthday? And I'm not saying anything. Congratulations, got
a surprise. I love a surprise. That's so exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
Yes, I know, but now everyone has an extra night
and you can find adolescents on Netflix. Yeah, and it's
won a ton of awards and it should have that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
Yeah, do we have any do we have time for another. Hi.

Speaker 12 (01:29:17):
This is Keim in Kentucky and after watching the catfish,
the high School Catfish. So I would like to applaud
the judge for allowing her not to contact her daughter
for a whole entire year, to let that poor girl
have some time to heal, because you know, the first

(01:29:40):
thing she wanted was mommy, and mommy was toxic.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
Toxic mommy. That's a great thing. It's still hot.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
I'm still worked up about it. I'm still worked up
about it. I really am. I feel like the cop.
I mean, listen, this is not a dig on law enforcement,
but that particular cop should not have let mom and
daughter be in the same room when daughter found out
mom was a monster number one, number two. You saw
her trauma right there. That's what it looks like. That

(01:30:10):
is it real time? And then yeah, it was a
good year.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
I think it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Should have been longer, and I think she should have
been in jail or that Kendra needed to really be
getting some some serious care before having access to her
daughter again.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
The sexy texts, Remember she was sending.

Speaker 5 (01:30:28):
All those weird sexy texts to the boys.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
How is that not like another version of pedophilia? I
know that's abuse. She was a grown adult and she's
texting a young teenage boy, let alone her daughter.

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
So let's even put his daughter for a second. The boyfriend,
why she was sending the most disgusting things, and then
a girl. Yeah, she's testing the new girl. So it
to me she was obsessed with the little boy. Yeah
that's right, thing.

Speaker 5 (01:30:56):
Too, which to me, she is not in prison right now, exactly,
that would be crazy making. I totally agree with you.
Like she just sat there so smug telling her story.
I was like the audentity. I would be mortified, Like literally,
you would never see me anywhere. I would be a
paper bag on my head. I wouldn't you. I would
never be in public. And this woman has stay couch

(01:31:19):
and put her makeup on and go on Netflix.

Speaker 3 (01:31:21):
Are you kidding me? Exactly. She was also no accountability.
She still was like, h we all make you know, well, yeah,
I didn't. Oh get out of here, give me give
me a break, Kendra. No, Kendra. So for our talkback
that asked what true crime and chill was, you just
listened to a very small part of what we do.
We just sit here and complain about people.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Document I say it in my head. Occasionally I'm like, no, no, Kendra,
not today. I say that in my head multiple times
when I'm stuck at a light and someone's giving me
a hard time and anyway, I'm like, in my head,
I go, no, no, that's today, Kendra. That's like a
headline in my head. Yeah, yeah, the thing there in
my head. You would never want the tag lie, but
like it is, like I have a that is a

(01:32:05):
tagline that I think in moments of frustration many times.

Speaker 5 (01:32:09):
New segment idea Stephanie's journal where she just writes down
her little taglines that she says.

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
To herself in read I literally not tonight, I need more.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
We'll tell it to the judge, Kendra, not today.

Speaker 3 (01:32:26):
So that's true, Grime and chill for the talk, maggot.
What we just did. It was a very small part
of it, but that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
And like the adolescents one is like it's kind of
like a real time combo and I think really applies
to what's happening in the world right now. Also, and
we're seeing a lot more of these, you know, frankly
disenfranchised young men who are becoming these lone wolves that
are committing hideous crimes right.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
Hi, guys, we survived. We did it solo, and I loved.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
It every time. Thanks for being with us tonight. Listen,
stay safe out there. We'll be back, of course tomorrow
with a big surprise show. I'm doing the math. I
don't think it's any of our birthdays, but if it's mine,
I'm so excited for the party.

Speaker 5 (01:33:10):
Yay, good night, Bye,