Unpacking the Nick Reiner Murder Case, Luigi Mangione Evidence Clash, and Brian Walshe’s Conviction

Prosecutors charge Nick Reiner, son of Rob and Michele Reiner, with first-degree murder as chilling details emerge from the family’s Los Angeles home. Attorney Jarrett Ferentino joins to unpack the legal stakes, discussing the disturbing discovery in the D4vd investigation, a pivotal evidence fight in the Luigi Mangione case, and what’s next after Brian Walshe’s no-body murder conviction. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, December seventeenth, and yes,
we have a stacked night of headlines. Nick Reiner, the
son of Robin Michelle Reiner, has officially been charged with
first degree murder as chilling new details emerge about life
inside their La home, plus the disturbing discovery tied to

(00:43):
pop star singer David who yet, by the way, has
not yet been arrested at all. There's really no movement
in this case, seemingly, but a little bit to unpack.
And also key statements that Luigi Mangioni has made in
court is now being said will not be used in court,

(01:04):
which is a very big deal. And by the way,
if I seem a little flustered, it's because I literally
am right now. It's just hitting our pages that Geelane
Maxwell has now asked for her sentence to be vacated.
As we know, she's serving a twenty year sentence for
being a co conspirator in the sex trafficking charges associated

(01:25):
with Jeffrey Epstein. Remember, we are two days away from
those alleged Epstein files to be released, and yes, this
may in fact be a roadblock.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
And to be honest, I'm seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
It for the first time just before the show comes
on air, and I feel enraged. I feel like this
is all part of a scheme and I just don't
know what to make of it. So I'm going to
take a really big deep breath from Stephanie Leidecker. I'm here,
of course, with Courtney Armstrong and body move in and
it's the perfect night to have our favorite prosecutor Farantino

(02:00):
with us this evening to answer any of it, all
of our legal questions.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
So I'm taking it down a notch. Jared, help help. Honestly, ladies,
where do would you like to begin?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Because the Gilain Maxwell thing is just fresh off the presses.
I know it's evolving as we speak. The President is making,
you know, an address to the nation. Will be monitoring
that closely. But man, oh man, it seems like the
world is a little upside down today. Courtney, what do
you think.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
I think we all collectively take and kind of hold
on to that breath with the Epstein files for a
moment and dive into the Rob.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Reiner on the site. So tragic. It's so tragic and
a lot to discuss.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
So thirty two year old Nick Reiner has indeed been
charged with first degree murder of his parents, beloved director
Rob Reiner and his wife, producer Michelle Singer Reiner. The
pair were found fatally stabbed in the Brenton with Los
Angeles home a couple of days ago on December fourteenth,
and their son. Again, he has a really long history

(03:12):
of substance abuse, and he was arrested just hours after
the alleged murder is believed to have taken place.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
He is being held.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Without bail and he is awaiting an arraignment on January seventh.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
So that's the very very top line of it.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
By the way, worth noting he was wearing like a
suicide bag, basically like a suicide suit.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
I've never seen that quite before.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
It looks like it's a sleeveless, legless little blue number.
And you know, again he was not seen on camera.
We've only seen a sketch. It did not appear that
there were family members in the courtroom supporting him in
any way, at least not that I saw.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
And it looks like he's looking at a lot of
bad things ahead.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
Yeah, it certainly seems like it'll not be a smooth
road whatever happens for him moving forward. And yeah, what
you're referring to, which I hadn't either, it's a blue
anti suicide smock, is what it's called. And Nick Reiner
also appeared in shackles and was seated behind glass in
the courtroom. So think about that, for example, juxtaposed to say,

(04:21):
Luigi Mangione, who's allegedly murdered United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson,
coming in looking like a year two law student. So anyway,
that's the visual of Nick Reiner today. The Los Angeles
County Medical Examiner has ruled the deaths of Michelle and

(04:42):
Rob Reiner homicide and that's due to multiple sharp force injuries,
and the time of their death hasn't been narrowed any
further than approximately the early morning hours of Sunday, December fourteenth.
Son Griner he fled Brentwood, which is in the western

(05:04):
part of Los Angeles, and was arrested hours later near
Exposition Park in Los Angeles. It's about fifteen miles from
the crime scene. That's in eastern Los Angeles. And there's
been newly released surveillance footage that shows the suspect, Nick
Reiner calmly buying a drink at a gas station shortly

(05:24):
before his arrest near Exposition Part.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
It looks like he was just going to go buy, yeah,
a sports drink. I guess that's what he did.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
You know, he was thirsty prior to either killing his
parents or right after. I assumed prior because he wasn't
covered in blood in that footage.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
Well, he must have gone to the hotel room at
some point, maybe showered, because the shower had blood in
it according to reports.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Right, that's correct.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
According to reports, it was in the shower and generally
in the hotel room and there was blood.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
And this was shortly before his arrest. Okay, so presumably
a change killed them.

Speaker 5 (06:03):
Well, allegedly he kills them, goes back to the hotel room, showers,
and then maybe goes to score. Maybe what do we
know about Expedition Park? Do we know anything about.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Going to score?

Speaker 2 (06:14):
That's probably what he was doing. Either he had buds
nearby or whatever. But he seemed surprised in the very
limited footage we've seen of his arrest. You know, there
was no contest. They put him to the ground. They
arrested him pretty smoothly, you know, likely yesterday he did
not appear in court because he had drugs in his system,
and yeah, time to sober up, my friend, because things

(06:35):
are looking pretty grim.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
So there's a couple of other details. But I'm absolutely
dying to know this from Jarrett, which I think we
all are, which is, what do you think are potentially
unique in the possible defenses? And is it in the
realm of possibility that I was so strung out on
drugs that I accident only committed promise I is.

Speaker 6 (07:01):
That Well, it's one of his good evening everyone, jar
at sicy advice. I think that that defense is the
likely top contender right now. The defense is essentially some

(07:21):
kind of mental infirmity. Okay, but in California, you got
to hit the jackpot of insanity. You don't just get
to say I'm a little crazy, throw in the little drugs.
I didn't know what I was doing. I killed my parents.
So when we're talking about buying a drink right before
the arrest, or going to a hotel afterwards. As a prosecutor,

(07:42):
I see deliberate acts where you are in control of
your faculties. You know, to high tail it out of
your parents' home, get to a hotel, put sheets over
the windows, shower, now go score. That's someone who is
capable of committe intentional acts like murder. That's what I

(08:03):
would say if I was prosecuting the case. If I
was defending the case, I would be saying, what organic
mental condition does Nick Reiner suffer from? That I can
trace back and attribute to his actions. But he literally
would not have to understand the fact that I have
a knife, I'm sticking this into my mother and father's

(08:26):
throat and it's not going to kill them. Like that's
the level of insanity under the Magnoton test, which is
what applies in California. You need.

Speaker 7 (08:37):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (08:38):
So yeah, I mean those seem like deliberate things, right,
he had the conscious of mind to clean up, right.

Speaker 6 (08:45):
They are, And it shows someone who's thinking clearly. Obviously
not maybe not as clear as a law abiding citizen.
But that's not the standard. The standard is does this
person appreciate the nature and quality of their actions? That's
literally the test that supplied to me, not in tests.
It's one hundred and fifty year old.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Techt And we talked about this last night Jared too.
The sheets on the windows I think is a particularly
chilling detail because again, that shows foresight that I know
I'm paranoid enough to know that people will be looking
for me, likely because I've done something very very bad
times too. And yeah, I'm in hiding if you will.

Speaker 6 (09:26):
I mean, she's on the defense. Sorry, But the defense
side of that is I'm crazy. I just every crazy
person in a hotel rooms just putting up sheets and
block in the line.

Speaker 5 (09:34):
And I think there's something to that, Jared. And the
reason I think that is I've stayed in a lot
of hotel rooms. I'm sure we all have the hotels.
I've never been in a hotel where there wasn't like
blackout curtains of some kind. Hanging sheets up it, you know,
is weird to me. It's a weird thing to.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Do unless it's getting light out and you're tweaking on
drugs and you don't want sunlight coming through, which is
I guess to your point, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Blackout curtains.

Speaker 5 (10:03):
Yeah, those every I mean, listen, every hotel room I've
ever been in, and I've been in you know, five
star hotels all the way down to Motel six or
eight or whatever, and they all have excellent curtains.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I hate it when there's that little streak and like
right on my face the entire.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
I just feel like hanging the sheets up is a
little wacky and might actually be good for his defense.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
I disagree.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I think it's just like, yeah, I'm tweaked out on drugs,
I just murdered my parents and I'm having crazy thoughts
and I, you know.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
Because I'm your crazed hotel room, because I'm crazy and
it's documented, and I've gone to mental rehabilitation facilities my
whole life.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Well that was.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Another question too, Jared. You know the picture that we've
all been painted by, frankly, all the media essentially and
anybody seemingly close to the story, and we have had
our own sources that yeah, he's been to rehab what
seventeen times in a limited amount of time, does you
know drug rehabilitation time? Seventeen stints? Does that show mental

(11:12):
illness in the making or does that just say this
is a guy that just can't take a note.

Speaker 6 (11:17):
Well, I think I don't think there's any doubt that
Nick Ryiner has mental difficulties and type of challenges, whatever
they are, and maybe that's what's contributed to the drug addiction.
But it could all be true. You can have the
mental challenges he has. You can be a little crazy
or a lot crazy and still be guilty of murder

(11:40):
and still be addicted to drugs and still fail seventeen
times to get off drugs. So all of that could
be true. It's certainly indicative that he has some mental
health issues. I looked at the pictures of this young man,
though certainly everybody sees the footage of him from two
thousand and fifty, if you look at the latest pictures
of him, when the mind suffers, the body cries out.

(12:02):
This is someone who has fallen out of shape. But
not a judgment. But when someone is in the throes
of mental health episodes, they're gaining weight, they're not taking
This is a beautiful family, you know, and Nick was
a good looking guy in his day. Right now, you
look at the family at a premiere. They're at this
final Tap two premiere. Nick looks out of place.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
He does he does.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
Everybody's just beautifully and they're all and he's kind of
like disheveled, right, Jared, He's kind of like a slob
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
I don't know what else to describe it.

Speaker 5 (12:34):
He definitely looks like he doesn't, you know, take care
of his appearance. In these photos of these premieres, they're
all dressed up, and he's just kind of like in
a Junger out.

Speaker 6 (12:45):
It seems far afield from where he was in two thousand.
I agree when they did the movie, and that to
me that there's just a breakdown physically of this man
as well.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Do we think, Jared?

Speaker 2 (12:58):
It just seems like this is going to be the
playbook and everybody should just brace themselves for you know,
Nick Reiner coming out and saying, oh, it all looks
fancy and glossy from the outside, but you know, taking
a page out of the Menendez Brothers. Not that I'm
not claiming the Menendez brothers suffered abuse period the end,
I'm not making that assertion, but it seems like the

(13:20):
minute he says, well I was sexually abused by so
and so or so and so or such and such,
that's going to be this now new reasoning, which is
interesting because Nathan Hackman, who's the district attorney here in
Los Angeles, he wasn't playing with the Menendez boys. He's
the one that basically said no to their plea to
get sent home early based on the new evidence of abuse.

(13:42):
So he may not be the DA that you want
in office for that argument, but I feel like I'm
sort of bracing myself for that to be this next layer.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I think we all are. I mean, it's interesting, it's
Patrick Snide.

Speaker 6 (13:57):
It's certainly possible. But remember you have have Jake and
is it Rammy who live there, Romi who lived there
as well, So you have witnesses who live to tell
the tale and whether or not that's true. We didn't
have that with the Menendez brothers, so we had to
take a leap of faith on Lyle and Eric. So
again I don't see any indication of that, but this

(14:18):
is going to be a very different Alan Jackson, who
we know represented Karen Reed Kevin. Yeah. I mean, look,
it's like they say there's nine billion people on the planet.
I'm like, why do we just keep seeing the same.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
People, nine billion people who all have the same three lawyers, right, right,
and the lawyers.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Are married to each other too. Yeah, and they're all related. Yeah,
that is so true.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
All smart people marry smart people.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
That is true too.

Speaker 6 (14:44):
Yet you have a frowlm Massachusetts on the other side
of the country. You got the same lawyers. So look,
you're not going to see this is a not necessarily
who've done it? And I don't tend to know what
Alan Jackson is going to do. Fantastic lawyer. Not taking
anything away from him, but he's painted into a corner
a little bit here. His options, in my opinion, are
pretty narrow, and they're going to go to mental health.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
And by the way, he painted a good picture even
at the press conference. I know we're at a time
so we can pick this up after the break, but
I do think he did a good job just kind
of how he laid it out. He seemed compassionate and
forthright Alan Jackson, I mean, he is really good.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
He seemed very in control and in command. But yeah,
stick around because we have much more and when we
come back. Jarrett Farentino, Prosecutor Extraordinary, is sticking with us.
We're going to continue digging into Robin Michelle Reiner's murder case.
As well as a little more details about the high
profile defense attorney who was stepping in and Luigi and

(15:48):
more True Prime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with
Courtney Armstrong body move in. Of course, we have producer
Taha here and Sam and Adam in the control room
is trying to keep me in check for a hot
minute because it is it is Wednesday, and we have
our favorite prosecutor, Jared Farantino here on just the perfect

(16:21):
night as the world seems completely upside down. We've been
talking quite a bit about Nick Reiner, obviously the son
of the now deceased Rob Reiner and his beautiful wife
Michelle Reiner, and there's been some new details. You know,
we now know that yes, the murders did in fact
happen in their bedroom, which is also very chilling. We've

(16:41):
seen video now of Nick being arrested, you know, blurry footage.
We've also now seen some footage from a gasoline station
or something where he was buying himself a soft drink.
Riveting just seems pretty laissez fair. And we've also seen
that he was in court today and is looking at
some serious charges and we're kind of debating what these

(17:04):
what these series may be about, what his defense could be.
And Jared, I think you were making some salient points,
so we'll go right back to you after this time.

Speaker 8 (17:15):
Hey, this is Jessica from Los Angeles and this is
about the Rob Reiner situation. You're talking about the withdrawals
and what they give you in jail. The only time
they give you anything for medical to help you withdrawal
is for alcohol and for heroin. They do not give
it for anything else. Good day, everybody, take care.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
Happy for that info, and happy holidays to you. Happy
holidays to you, and thank you for the info. Yeah,
we were kind of wondering last night about that, you know,
because we well we don't know what drugsys on specifically,
but we were wondering if he would go into some
sort of medical detocs when he went to jail.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
So thank you for that. Yeah, it's got to be
rough too.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
I can only imagine that that is not a fun
ride to be in a very cold cell when you're
used to living in a fourteen point five million dollar
mansion in Brentwood and being in a weird suicide suit
that has no pants and no legs, and to be chilly, sober, sobering.

(18:16):
I suppose knowing that you allegedly murdered your parents and
now you have to face the music. So Jared, who
is paying for his defense? I'm sorry, I'm getting spice,
I'm getting well, okay, But like, this is a guy
who allegedly just murdered his parents and sliced their necks
and left them for dead people who have looked after
them for so so, so, so long, and now suddenly

(18:37):
has enough money to hire Alan Jackson, arguably one of
the best lawyers of all time.

Speaker 6 (18:43):
Let me put a big proviso over this fer speculation
on my point. On my part, he's thirty two years old,
his father loves him to the tune of seventeen Stintson Rehab,
and he's still staying in the guest house, right. I
suspect they set up a trust fund for Nick and

(19:05):
it is managed by a trustee who can retain counsel
for him in the event of a problem. That's what
I suspect. Because I will now let me say if
any of your families or any of the listener's families
have ever had someone in the throes of addiction like
Nick who's staying with their parents, what's the parents worse
fear other than they're going to kill someone or die

(19:27):
doing this. The parents worry they're going to die first
and leave that son. What do you do to prevent
that or to prepare for that? You set up a
trust fund when there's money, Because what happens when a
person like Nick gets money He scores right, So he
has a trustee. In all likelihood that trustee makes decisions
in the best interests of Nick and can retain counsel.

(19:50):
That to me is the simplest explanation of how you
can free up that kind of money. I'm a drug
addict can free up that kind of money that fast.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Wow, that doesn't really good point. I have to second
your theory on that.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Is there any universe that in this Probably not, But
is there any universe that Alan Jackson is taking this
pro bono because this is going to be such a
pivotal case.

Speaker 6 (20:16):
Well, it's certainly at first he does not need any
additional press over the last twelve months, So yeah, I
don't know that he was, So there is I mean,
he certainly can I don't know Alan Jackson, I certainly
know his work, but I also know that a man
like him command thousands of dollars an hour, like it's
no joke. So if he's not getting paid from Nick,

(20:37):
it means he's losing it from another client. So it's
like a double hit. So I would suspect him being paid.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And doesn't this feel like a loser case to take on?

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Like there doesn't seem to be a huge to your
earlier point who done it? Now we're just going to
get into excuse central of the why done it? And
if I'm Alan Jackson coming off to Karen reid heyday
of quite frankly incredible lawyering that got her finally acquitted,
is this kind of a bummer case to have to tackle?

Speaker 6 (21:08):
Well, from the looks of it right now, yes, it
looks like, as we said, it's not a who done
It's only real options are mitigation type defenses. Self defense
doesn't appear to have been an issue here. But okay,
if there was a form of abuse in the home
things like we've seen in other cases, maybe, but again
we're speculating there's no indication of that. The other children

(21:30):
there doesn't seem to be any indication or reports of that.
So yeah, I mean from a guilt or innocent phase
or win or loss assessment. Yeah, this isn't the best
case to take, but when life gives you lemons, you
make lemonade.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
We were talking.

Speaker 5 (21:47):
About, you know, the possibility of distrust funding his defense.
So in essence, the parents that he murdered allegedly are
funding their murderer's defense.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
See right, You imagine when you.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
California has a slayer statute and basically prevents anyone who's
convicted a keyword, convicted of the murder inheriting any money
from that person. Ken they freeze the trust, you.

Speaker 6 (22:17):
Know, So that's a that's a loaded legal question. So
the money, if it's in the trust, it's no longer
the parents' money. The trust separate legal entity. So so
think about it this way. If the Reiners did create
a trust for Nick, the trust is the owner of
the money, not the winers. In fact, the hiners wouldn't

(22:38):
necessarily be the managers of that money because this is
set up in the event they're killed or that Nick
could manage his affairs, like if Nick doesn't have a job, okay,
which he did, right, Where's she getting money? Maybe on
a weekly allowance from the trust Okay, And let's say
they put four or five million dollars aside for Nick.

(22:58):
It generates interest and pays him a salary. That trustee, well,
as we said, could retain counsel for him. And that's
where we get that this is not gospel. It's speculation.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
Right, Yeah, of course, of course that's probably very likely.
And then that's what's going on, and that's what's happened, Jared.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
So, Nick Reiner, he didn't enter a plea during his
court appearance, which is again why his arrangement has been
postponed until the beginning of twenty twenty six. And when
asked if he raised his right to a speedy arraignment,
Nick Reiner said, yes, your honor.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
What's the why? Who calculated that decision and why?

Speaker 6 (23:39):
Well, Alan Jackson, I'm sure advised him to waive his
right to a speedy arraignment because, let's say, an arrangement
is basically, the court reads the charges against you, and
you enter a plea of guilty not guilty. Okay, Jackson
is saying, I'm in no position to advise him on
how to he didn't say this, but this is what
you're thinking. I need to know. And in the meantime,

(24:01):
over the Christmas holiday, from now until January seventh, Nick
is going to be evaluated by psychiatrists employed by Alan
Jackson Psychologists. They're going to review his history and they're
going to make a determination if this is a mental
health situation, how do we advise him to play. If
he's fine, he could go in and you can treat

(24:21):
him like any other client. If there's a documented clinical,
organic mental health history, they need to deal with that.
So that is all the reason in the world you
would make that request.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's like seventeen times he's snuck himself out of healthcare
and mental care and drug rehab. You know, you kind
of get good at the system at that point too.
So again, not an easy road ahead in terms of
testing him. I can't imagine that his parents haven't had
every healthcare professional throne at him throughout the years to

(24:53):
get him the help that they so desperately wanted him
to have. And you know, sometimes an addict can kind of,
you know, dance around stuff, and I don't know, it
seems like it's just going to be a big mess
to come and I feel so bad for Romi, the
sister and the older brother, and like, this is a
guy that was a ticking time bomb. How about anybody
that was at Conan O'Brien's holiday party. You know, this

(25:15):
guy was ready to murder that night. So we're going
to be there, Mamas, We're going to be there that night.
You know, you have Bill Hayter, the the median like
who apparently he got like ticked off at that could
have actually gone real sideways and become quite deadly now
that you see that. And for romy like, you know,
she showed up a couple hours earlier, what could have

(25:37):
been killed.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Romi said, it's you have to contact my brother. He's dangerous.
He's dangerous. He knew it was him. What a terrible
spot for her to be in. And I'm all mad
about it.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
It's so holidays, you know, people are trying to celebrate what.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Shame on him. Shame, shame, shame.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
It's alf with the Menanda's brothers would say about this though.
In fact, I'm going to reach out to the Menanda's
brothers behind bars because I'm curious what their take on
this is. In the city that they were also tried
and you know, convicted for a crime that they committed.
Patricide is a very real thing and a very rare thing,
like we've talked about. I wonder if they have a
gut reaction to it.

Speaker 6 (26:22):
Well, you know, I've had I've seen it in my career.
I've had several cases where this has happened, and it's
you know what I would love to know, like that
parent would still look out for this child. Even this
was like this was like the cross that that the
Rhiners bore their entire life. Like one thing about Ryan

(26:43):
and the guy's alleged everything he touched turned the gold.
He's funny, you know. He was a successful, powerful guy
and his son appears to have resented him and his
siblings for it.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
M like just a maybe bad egg. Does that happen?
And you know, but you're right.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
You look at the photographs throughout the and he looks
a little off, you know now that we're looking at
through that lens. I feel badly saying this, but he does.
And what a terrible ending. Thirty two years old.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
But if anybody can do it, it's Alan Jackson. I mean, listen,
by all accounts, looking surface level, Karen Reid. It looked
like she killed John O'Keefe, right, the car backing up,
the the tail light slashed all that, right, it looked
that way surface level, right, she gota quitted. If anybody

(27:33):
can do something here, it's Alan Jackson. It's just my opinion.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
And Alan Jackson I didn't know this until I don't know,
thirty hours ago. But he also defended Kevin Spacey back
in twenty nineteen in sexual assault allegations. Those charges were
dropped due to witness issues. And Alan Jackson also defended
Harvey Weinstein in twenty twenty two, and that was in

(27:57):
the Los Angeles rape trial. Weinstein ultimately was convicted and
sentenced to sixteen years. But he's definitely not He's accustomed
to the limelight and.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
He handles it well.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
He handles it well, and I think he's I think
he finds cracks right, cracks in the investigation, cracks with prosecutors,
practs with law enforcement, judges, juries, everything he finds.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
I just feel like they're going to rip the victims
and like go back and try to retail history for
the parents.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
And you know, I just feel that coming.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
You know, Jared, you mentioned you had also represented other
people who have murdered parents. Is there a similar theme
or any takeaway?

Speaker 6 (28:42):
Son point two. It's situations where I've had it. I've
prosecuted cases two sons that killed their fathers, two sons. Yeah,
and there were just similar situations drug addicts, strung out
kind of situations where and we've had other cases in
my office that of patricide cases as well. And it's

(29:03):
always the same thing. You know, it's the kid that
can't get off mom's couch. They're not to the level
of the of the rhiners. But at the same time,
it's you know, how many times have your parents made
a call to their friends, can we bring our thirty
two year old child to your Christmas party? Like this
is you know that to like see this? You know
it like it's always that kid and parents underestimate how

(29:28):
violent and how much these kids actually resent and hate them.
That's part of the problem too, It's it's you know,
these kids, the ones I'm talking about. And quite honestly,
Nick Reiner.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Is it's so true because even if you see some
of the interviews, and again we're looking at it through
a certain lens, it looks like dad is, oh my god,
we got so close after making that movie and it's
so great and the son's like, yeah, you know, it's
like there's a level of disdain kind of under the
surface there, which is such a baseball.

Speaker 9 (29:58):
I like basketball, Give me a break that Jared that Okay,
that stood out And again I agree with Stephanie on
the lens, but yeah, whining about that.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
That his you know, his brother Jake and his father
they could connect on that, but not me because this
we like different sports behind me And I mean this
kid he went to this kid Nick Reiner thirty two years.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Old, he went to Stanford University. Oh did he really?
He did?

Speaker 4 (30:26):
Really surprised me also, And he went to UC Irvine.
And it's funny because I looked it up because where
he was found Exposition Park. Stephanie, you were like, oh,
maybe he went to score drugs. I'm like, did he
go to USC and potentially know someone? Because it's literally
right right there.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Okay, But I.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
Mean he was given and I have to imagine, had
you know, generously paid for unbelievable education and seventeen opportunities
and all the rest.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
And what was he going to be at much like Luigi.

Speaker 5 (31:03):
Hobby spoiled kids right, like, I would.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Like to interview every one of them today. Luigi, Hey,
what do you think about the Nick Reiner situation?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Another young man.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
White guy that has his whole life ahead of him,
tons of opportunity, loving family, lots of privilege. What do
you make of that? What went wrong here? I bet
you they'd all have an opinion on top of it.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Oh, I'm sure they would. Listen.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
The Nick Reiner case is frankly everywhere. We can't escape it,
and at the same time, I don't know why I
can't stop reading anything and everything about it. I feel
heartbroken for the Rhiner family, and of course like the
idea that this beautiful couple, who by all accounts were
together twenty four hours a day, they spent so much

(31:47):
time together two peas in a pod that one of
them had to witness the other one being murdered by
their own son. Is just unfathomable. And it just keeps
getting worse. So I know we should move on to
other worst topics, because.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
There's quite a few to get to.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
Well, do you mind if I stay on? There's just
a couple of quick legal things. While we have Jarrett here,
Jarrett Farentino, our prosecutor extraordinaire. So this is something I
couldn't make tops or tails of. So Nick Reiner is
charged with two counts of first degree murder for allegedly

(32:26):
murdering his parents. Understood and included is a special allegation
for using a knife, which is a special circumstance under
California law. Can you explain the nuts and bolts of
that please?

Speaker 6 (32:40):
Yeah. So that's called in Pennsylvania and on the East Coast,
we call that a deadly weapon enhancement. So you have
a violent client, okay, and you use a knife for example,
that is a separate punishable offense that adds a term
of incarceration on top of the underlying charge. So it's like,

(33:02):
let's say you committed an aggravated assault and you did
it with a knife. You get five years for the
egg assault, and you get another year on top of
that for the knife. Now it's a separate offense and
separate provable aspect of the case. So you have to
prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. It's an enhancement. They're figuring.
Here's why it exists. Because there's murder and then there's

(33:25):
a knife murder, which is close personal When you use
a knife, it says something about the level of intention
you have. You had to approach the person, you had
to be close enough to touch the person. You had
to be really intending to bring about a violent end
or risking that. That's why that enhancement exists.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
So those enhancements don't exist for like a gun murder.

Speaker 6 (33:49):
Well they do. Sometimes they do. Sometimes, Yes, there are
a firearm enhance there's a deadly weapon enhancement. It could
be a gun, for example, there's enhancements on automatic guns.
Am I automatic gun?

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (34:01):
So really, what it is is when, in the response
to certain types of clients, legislatures say, hey, this was
a particularly bad knifeing or stabbing, we want to enhance
this as a deterrent for people to think twice before
they stab someone. Doesn't have a deterrent effect, I don't know.
It's a good tool for prosecutors though.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Man, oh man, you've gotta be a real psycho to
slit your parents' neck.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Okay, so we will move off of this topic as
you suggested, Stephanie, But I think the last words should
go to the Reiner family. And this is a statement
that thirty four year old Jake Reiner, the older brother
of the suspect and older brother of Rommy Ryder, made quote.

(34:51):
We are grateful for the outpouring of condolences, kindness, and
support we've received, not only from family and friends, but
people from all walks of life. We now ask for
respect and privacy, for speculation to be tempered with compassion
and humanity, and for our parents to be remembered for
the incredible lives they lived and the love they gave.

(35:14):
So that is uh, yeah, here here, let's leave it there.
This piece, absolutely this is true crime tonight. If you're
just joining us, we've been talking about the unfolding uh investigations,
the murders of Rob and Michelle Reiner, and we are
now going to move on to another topic.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Body. Yeah, David, I'm mad at him too. What do
you gotta say about David.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I'm mad about it. I'm mad about the incinerator in
his house.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
I just do not like it. I think these are
young people with a lot of opportunity, a lot of
cash in their pockets, and I hate that this is
how it's playing out. Yeah, allegedly. Let me just tell
everybody what was found. So Stephen Fisher, he's the private
investigator hired by the landlord of Pop Singer murder suspect David,

(36:08):
revealed that he discovered this unused burn cage okay, And
this burn cage incinerator was on David's property, was unopened,
and it's also illegal to use in that area, okay,
So there's no reason for him to have it, maybe
unless he's going camping somewhere.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
I don't know. Why would you take a burn in anyway.
So the issue here is that the police never took
that as evidence or anything. They left it on the property,
which is how Steven Fisher got a hold of it. Amazing,
and that it was shipped to the house in a

(36:46):
false name. But he's being a somebody signed for it, right,
So we have questions about the legality and whatnot of
the you know all things, David. Okay, oh wee. So
we have a DM, right is that right?

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Taha? We have a DM.

Speaker 10 (37:06):
Okay, we got a DM from someone.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
I have it, yep, I have it, handy. So the
DM is on the Celeste Reevas case. This is interesting.
Why aren't they getting David on simple kidnapping charges.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
He was an adult with the illegal custody of a minor.
I think custody is the issue here. Okay, he was
an adult with the illegal custody of a minor, regardless
of an inappropriate relationship. Can he be held accountable for
harboring a minor or something like that, then they don't
have to prove an inappropriate relationship at all. It seems

(37:43):
like there are plenty of cases of parents not returning
their child their child back to the other parent in
a custody agreement, and they're quickly apprehended for kidnapping. By
the way, that was from Reagan. Reagan, thank you for
the DM Jared, what do you think about that?

Speaker 6 (37:57):
So, first of all, her analogy to where custody situation
is great well bought out. But that's a valid court order.
So in violation of a court order, that's a kidnapping again,
just like, look, that's an interesting thing. Technically he could
be he could have been charged with that if you
look at the circumstances. But we don't know all the circumstances.

(38:19):
We don't know what she told him, we don't know
what he knew about her. We could speculate, but to me,
you're in the same spot on the kidnapping charge or
close to it as you are, whether or not there
was an inappropriate relationship between the two. What level of
control was he exercising over her? Was she just coming
over to visit? Were they just coming over to make

(38:41):
videos and rat videos? And I'm not I'm saying that
half tongue in cheek, but there you can't have a
charge without delving into the actual nature of that relationship
and the evidence. Right, So if David isn't talking and
you don't have the text messages and photographs and things
of that nature to back it up, it's a hard
charge to bring.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Oh, I think we have not seen David anywhere?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Has any raised your hand if you've seen a little
sneaky photo of David at the grocery store. Has anyone
seen David washing his car or walking his mama through
the park?

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Has anyone seen David a single photo?

Speaker 10 (39:20):
Not a single photo?

Speaker 3 (39:22):
If I, well, Jared, you should speak to this.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
But if I were his make believe counsel, if I
was a pretend lawyer, which I play one in my mind,
I would advise him absolutely not to be photographed because
it could be misconstrued. He raised his eye because he
was about never going to go outside. Was he thinking
everybody else goes outside?

Speaker 10 (39:40):
Well, so this is all over. I wouldn't want to
be seen smiling.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
It doesn't matter. You still physically typically see somebody. I mean,
this is a pop star who's a big deal in Hollywood.
There's paparazzi everywhere.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
TMZ seems to.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Know everything that's going on in David's trial and all
the things or non trial. I should say, why have
we never seen a photo him? He does not ever
leave his house. There's no way that people don't know
where he is. TMZ's been tracking him or we're hearing
all kinds of stories.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Where's the paparazzi?

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Yeah, I don't think anybody really knows where he's at.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
We can find anybody.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
We all saw Nick rightner, and we all can see
We're all like, ohoh, where's Nick. I could see people
getting into the courthouse when they arrive. I can see
people do just about anything in this world. Why have
we not seen a single photo of him?

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Definitely?

Speaker 11 (40:25):
Well, I mean, but yeah, I know she's so spicy
right now, I'm scared to even say anything. But money
that he has, you know, he doesn't have to leave
the house like I mean, I think you know, if
you have enough, like have anything delivered.

Speaker 5 (40:37):
I can stay in my house for months, I promise you, Jared,
do you have a thought on that.

Speaker 6 (40:43):
Well, if somebody found a body in my front, I
would not be pictured anywhere. I would be laying pretty low,
whether my lawyer told me to or not. But yes,
I think if he's being properly advised, they're like, we
don't want you out. What would happen if you went
to a club. Think the case Anthony, she was out clubbing.
Photographs of her that was an exhibit in the trial, right,

(41:04):
So anything could be missed. Anything the guy does. If
he goes to church, they'll say, oh, this is nothing, but.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
He's praying for repenting his sins. Yes, no doubt, I
get it. No, No, I see that. And I wasn't
suggesting he should be out and about. I just think
it's odd that there's been like not a single like
photograph of him just going to his mailbox or anything.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Is he a flight risk? Oh that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Is there a reason that we haven't seen David in
a while, and we can't seem to bring him into custody,
and that he's a suspect, but no one's getting arrested.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Ever. Do they know where David is?

Speaker 6 (41:41):
Well, well, here's the thing. He has flight potential. He
has money, he has properties in multi states, he's got
multi cars, probably multi IDs. He's known by a stage name,
not his real name. So there's flight potential. Whether or
not he's a risk, and he's made intimations that he's
going to take off as another story, but that's part
of when we discuss why they named him as a suspect,

(42:03):
is part of why that gets done. Maybe they want
to occasion something.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
You know, Jarret, you.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Were a prosecute prosecutor for a long time. Have you
ever experienced something in a case where the law enforcement
officials were at odds with the medical examiner.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
In such a public way and.

Speaker 6 (42:26):
They are not publicly. I've certainly experienced disagreements where you know,
medical exam they're all very different, like lawyers, like police officers.
They have files, they have fit so yet it's tough,
and that's a tough thing because we need to all
be rowing in the same direction. When you have a
material piece like was this person murdered? Which is the

(42:50):
critical before you even get to who's responsible? How did
it happen is the main question? Right was a crime
committee here? The medical examiner needs to be on the
same page as the prosecution and if they're at odds,
your case has problem.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
I think there's something here. I think, Steph, I think
there's something here with the medical examiner not being able
to talk about what happened to Celeste like they do
in every other case. It's so weird they process, having
them being basically gagged, so to speak, right on releasing
this information, which they, like I said, they typically do

(43:26):
in every other case, and they're at odds with you know,
the LAPD and the prosecutor's office. I think there's something there.
I don't know what, but it's very interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
While yesterday we saw with the Rob Reiners son, you know,
they introduced the entire prosecution's office and the whole team
lined up. There was like fourteen men in suits that
were like, and this is the team that's going to
bring justice to the Los Angeles. Where's David's justice innocent? Also,
you know that too, if you leave it and I'm innocent.

(44:02):
I'm like, you guys are wrecking my life right now.
My world tour has been canceled. My family can't leave
the house. I'm suddenly in hiding. I can't even go
to the to the millbox without some dope on a
radio show yelling about it. You know, so you know
what can I that would also be maddening. And by
the way, if he loved Celeste revs Hernandez, why isn't

(44:25):
he like screaming that there's a killer at the on
the loose and that we have to find the person
and somebody that I do so well in love.

Speaker 10 (44:32):
I think you're answering sort of your.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Own I think you're answering your own question.

Speaker 11 (44:36):
And like, how suspicious is it there's an incinerator.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
In this guy's house, Jared, are you surprised that law
enforcement didn't take that?

Speaker 3 (44:50):
I mean, I'm gonna answer for you.

Speaker 6 (44:52):
I would ask, I would say, open unopened tator, like
why does he have it? I'd be asking other people
that live there what is or when? I would just
want to run that down. I want to know what's
going on here.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
You know, let's just play that game for a second.
What could be the use for the incinerator, my brain goes.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
To plastic trash or it.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
We'd be there like very anti trash, possibly burning leaves burning.
There's there's like literally no leaves ever in the Hollywood Hills.

Speaker 11 (45:25):
There there some of his past videos they do have
a dark tone, like there is something apocalystic, but that
would have.

Speaker 5 (45:32):
Been sent to the production house right with it would
have been sent to his residence.

Speaker 6 (45:39):
Anyway they are.

Speaker 5 (45:40):
It's illegal.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
It's a total fire hazard. Don't get me started on
David for the fire hazard he may have just caused.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Also add that to the list of things I'm annoyed about.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
But like, there's an incinerator in a box in the
guy's garage, and that's like new information that the private.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
And the cops didn't.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
Yeah, the private investigator, Stephen Fisher, finds us incinerator basically
with the decomposing body of a fourteen year old girl
in his trunk, and they don't take it. I think
that's very interesting. Yes, And I don't know if it's
incompetence or.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
If it's there's something fishy.

Speaker 5 (46:14):
Covering something up or I don't know what it is.
But at the at the very at the if I'm
being kind, it's incompetence.

Speaker 10 (46:21):
Yeah, I think I lean that direction.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
It's very curious.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, me is wearing the cutest little ski hat right now, as.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Hopped up as I feel, she.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Is like smiles for miles and like this cute little
like this little hat that is so adorable.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Can really take it.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
Well, thank you very much for that. Stick around, because
coming up at the top of the hour, a turn
it geez, Louise, excuse me, Attorney Jared Farrantino is sticking around.
We're going to be unpacking how prosecutors are moving to
block key statements in the Luigi man g Owned case.
That more True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. I'm Steph and I'm here
with Courtney and Body and of course Jarrett Farantino, our
most favorite prosecutor. We have him on borrow times, so
as much as we just want to ask him a
bajillion questions, one more segment with Jared, So we're going
to fast talk to get it all in. Let's go

(47:29):
to we talk back right now.

Speaker 7 (47:31):
Hi, this is Andrea calling from Indiana. I had a
question about the Brian Wals case. If the defense just
rested when it was their turn, does that make it
easier for Brian Walsh to call for an ineffective council
later on if he is convicted?

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Is such a good question.

Speaker 5 (47:48):
So in Massachusetts there's an automatic appeal. Let's set this up.
So in Massachusetts there's an automatic appeal on first agree
murder convictions. However, because the defense didn't present any case,
is it maybe a good idea for Brian Walls to
raise an effective assistance of counsel upon appeal?

Speaker 6 (48:12):
Well, certainly, it doesn't look great that they didn't put
on a defense. It's here's the thing they put on.
They did actually put on a defense. They just did
it through the prosecution's case. Their position was she died
of this natural condition, right, sudden depth syndrome, right, or
whatever it was. They could not get an expert to

(48:33):
support that conclusion or that that is likely what happened.
In my opinion, this is what I'm speculating. They couldn't
get an expert to back that claim. When you can't
get an expert, you can't manufacture one. You can't put
somebody on that's not going to back you. So there's
a strategic decision slip it in on the case in
chief if we don't have an expert. When Brian Walsh

(48:54):
inevitably sues his lawyers or files that appeal, they're going
to say, hey, we contacted five doctors. Nobody would support
what we were saying. It was a strategy. We're not
going to put on a doctor to say something that
wasn't true. We simply got it in and cross examination
and that's how we did it. So that is a
strategy which is an allowable exception to put forth to

(49:16):
defense and they say nothing, Well, I never defended anybody
in that in that situation. So I've had cases where
it's a strategy where they're like, we got our shots
in and the case in chief, so we're just going
to rest in our defense. And I've seen it work
for people they created enough doubt. Remember, defense doesn't have

(49:38):
to prove anything. It's always on the prosecution the burden, right,
and sometimes it's effective.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
And that's what did he did, right, isn't that what
he did? Also, he.

Speaker 6 (49:50):
Pretty much he agreed with ninety percent of the prosecution's case,
which is effective, and said, by the way, all this
is true, I'm a pretty bad guy. But they all
consented to.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
It, right like that was pretty genius. After all I
said and done. The guy got fifty months.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
We don't get me started. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (50:09):
Brian Walsh was convicted on Monday a first degree murder
of his beautiful wife on A Walsh. He's expected to
be sentenced to life without the possibility of role tomorrow
after being convicted. Anna Walsh, his wife, was thirty nine
years old, and she was reported missing on January first

(50:31):
of twenty twenty three after Brian Walsh said she left
their Massachusetts home on a work related trip. Anna Walsh's
body was never found, but prosecutors built a case based
around the circumstantial and digital evidence leaking linking Brian Walsh
to her death. Brian Walsh also pled guilty before the

(50:51):
trial even began, to dismembering a victim on A Walsh's body,
misleading investigators, and disposing of her body. So that's the
case we're talking about right now. And because he was
convicted of first degree murder. In Massachusetts, the commonwealth has
a provision that any you know, cases that you're convicted
of in the first degree murder get an automatic appeal

(51:13):
to their superior courts. So we're just kind of we
were just kind of trying to spitball things that they
could bring up. Now it's interesting in Massachusetts, it's not
necessarily they don't have to just look at technical errors,
you know, like that happened during the trial. They can
bring up on appeal. They can bring up even like fairness,
which is I think why that talkback was so like

(51:35):
timely and great because you know, they didn't really present
a defense. But to your point, Jarrett, they kind of
did through cross right. They tried to basically undermine witness
testimony and undermine expert witnesses that the state, well the
Commonwealth presented, and I think they did a good job,
but I was surprised there was no defense at all.
It was very interesting, I think, very interesting. So we'll

(51:58):
see what happens tomorrow, but we do expect that he's
going to get life without the possibility to parole. Can
you explain the automatic appeal process, like do you know
anything about that, like how that works in Massachusetts?

Speaker 6 (52:11):
Well, first of all, these cases go on appill whether
it was automatic or not. So what they're saying, of course,
when you went through our system. We're so there's two
ways you can look at this. It's another right granted
to defendants to protect them and ensure that the trial
courts are operating with integrity. Right, So your life first

(52:32):
to be murder is life without the facility of parole. Yes, absolutely,
So they're saying we are we are a check on
the trial system. We are going to review every case
and decision you make. Remember that judges are not infallible
and they're not all powerful. They have to know in
a first to be murder case, Hey, two to ten

(52:54):
months from now, a judge on the next level is
going to be reviewing a panel of judges is going
to be reviewing this very decision. I'm not an island.
I have to follow the law here. So that is
a check, which I think is a great way of
putting it.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
This guy's got a lot of nerve because now Anna's
family and his beautiful children, who he schlept all the
way to Low's to buy a hack saw so that
he could hack up their mom is going to like
be behind bars in for the holidays, hopefully for the
rest of his life.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
And these kids have to now face the music in.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Their own horrible little little way right now, you know
it's Christmas. They're missing their mom. Now dad's going to
be away, and they know now he's he's a murderer.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
It's just awful, it is. It's terrible.

Speaker 5 (53:42):
I mean I feel bad, you know, honest, family lives
in a different country.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Yeah, she's not even having access to the kids.

Speaker 6 (53:50):
Necessarily, go back to the Rhiner case. But this is
one of those seces where your victim's family and your
defendant family are one and the same. They're the topic
cases because you want justice and nobody knows where to
sit in the courtroom, whether or not they want to
like the prosecutor, they don't know what's going you know,

(54:11):
it's tough, and it happens far too often.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
This is your friend tonight on IHEARTRAO, where we're talking
true crime all the time. We were just now discussing
the Brian Walsh conviction. He's expected to be sentenced to
life tomorrow. We will definitely keep you updated on that.
But now we want to switch gears a little bit
and talk about Luigi.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Jared quarantine. We've got questions for you.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Okay, So the Manhattan District Attorney is excluding statements that
Luigi Mangio made while he was secretly recorded in Pennsylvania.
This happened after his arrest and ongoing is a pre
child hearing that goes on to determine whether other key

(54:57):
evidence will be admitted in the trial for them murder
of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, twenty seven year old
man Gione, of course, is accused of killing Brian Thompson
on a Manhattan sidewalk just a year ago, and everything
that took place after his arrest five days after the
murder in Altuna, Pennsylvania, seems to really be coming in

(55:21):
the crosshairs at least of the defense teams.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
So, yeah, what is your thoughts on this?

Speaker 6 (55:28):
So on the recordings in Pennsylvania, which where I live,
in practice is a two party consent system for recording.
So essentially, if you don't tell someone they're being recorded, okay,
it's a Wiretap Act violation and that recording cannot be used.
So one part of the claim in Luigi cases he

(55:48):
unbeknownst to him there was a recording that continued after
a conversation he had with investigators, So that recording if
he was truly unaware and was not apprized of that fact.
The DA is voluntarily removing that. Now here's why that
you're saying, we're in Manhattan. Who cares about what Pennsylvania says?

(56:08):
Pennsylvania law applies because they were in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
I feel mad about this too. Doesn't it matter what
was said on the tape at all? I get the
two party state, and I know we're all very respectful
of that. I do you understand it? But again, like
sort of like a technicality, Yeah, but the technicalities matter.

Speaker 6 (56:28):
I mean, it doesn't matter because if it was secured
in violation of his constitutional rights, it'll never be heard
when assessing the merits of the case. So you know,
it matters in that somebody heard it and they move
forward in the case, but it's not going to matter
in what's put forth in establishing Luigi Manngioni's guilt.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
So just one more thing on this topic, and this
is all. During the pre trial hearing, NYPD Lieutenant David
Leonardi admitted that he didn't know whether recording someone in
Pennsylvania without consent was legal, and that he acted while
he was being guided by legal counsel. So there is that,

(57:13):
and then all the information we could find was that
while Mangion, the accused, was at the station house, he
requested an attorney. Investigators left the room, but the video
and audio recording continued.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
So isn't there a presumed level that you're being like
recorded at that point? If I see a camera, yes,
a ring sign, I'm like, oh, I might be on camera.

Speaker 6 (57:38):
If you see a camera, yes, there's a presumption. You
could say it's open and notorious that recording. You can't
say you didn't. But here's the second fact that Courtney added,
which is something we wanted to get into, was he
invoked his right to counsel. So now you're dealing with
two constitutional protections. You got this wiretap right not to
be recorded and this paramount right to counsel. One. When

(58:02):
when a defendant invokes the right to counsel and they're
in custody, which they admit he was in custody at
that point, the questioning stops, the recording stops. Any statement
said after that while waiting to secure counsel and not
retracting that request off the table.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
So if he said I'm a murderer, I killed this guy,
I hate insurance.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
During this little time period of course no, because it's
a conversation with Moyer.

Speaker 6 (58:31):
It's off the table. Well, it was before his lawyer
was even president, it's after he and right after he.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Right, everything go to a city station though, and doesn't
assume that they're being recorded to some degree. I don't
actually know the answer to this, but if I were
in an interrogation room, I was.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Very spicy.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
There's probably a two way mirror, and there's have you
not seen enough movies to know that there's like somebody
listening behind that glass.

Speaker 6 (59:05):
There's a two way mirror. I can tell you that
I've been on the other side of that mirror far
too many times. There's definitely a two way mirror. But
they're not always recording, that's one thing. But like you said,
you made it a good point. If there's a camera there,
you can't and the red light is on recording luck
trying to get that right right, How.

Speaker 10 (59:25):
Does police body cam fall into that category?

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Exactly?

Speaker 6 (59:28):
Good question. Imp that is, Now, that is an open
and notorious recording and it's out in the public. Everybody
there's it's almost well, it is an exception. They're law enforcement,
they're allowed to use it in that context. But again, again,
it's this they're inside there. Whether or not he was
apprized of a recording is what could create an issue

(59:51):
on this case. But the bigger issue is his invocation
to count of counter point, not just the recording, because
on the recording on a law could probably get in.
I would argue, clearly, it was obvious, clearly he was
performing for the camera, he knew he was being recorded,
and I've had challenges like that, but the council one
is really what stops.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
I want to see that recording.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
So, like, I know, you would be so good in
these situations, Like if body was doing the interrogation of
somebody and there was like in Jarrett and Courtney were
behind the two way mirror. She was like, and I
offer you a cigarette, and she's like, tell me about
that night. The guy would be like instantly, instantly, there

(01:00:34):
were two seconds. They would lie too nice exactly, and
that's why they start spilling it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:42):
In the mirror, texting the investigators like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
She's like, smooth operator, right, right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Do any of the rulings that are made here apply
to the federal trial or does everything start dead fresh?

Speaker 6 (01:00:56):
They can, so the rules that apply, you're basically balancing
the same right. So it's very unlikely you would have
a ruling that goes against Luigi. That won't really play
out that way in the federal court. In fact, that's
a really good question because the Pennsylvania Constitution with the
Fourth Amendment, provides an even greater protection in the United

(01:01:17):
States constitutions. To sound like a real, real constitutional nerd,
I can't believe we're talking about the Constitution and this
in depth.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
No, I love it.

Speaker 6 (01:01:26):
It stands up in PA. It'll be fine in the
federal system.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
Really, I didn't know that it's more strict vision. Yes, okay, interesting,
So yeah, we'll have to see what happens. So the
judge is thinking it's going to end tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (01:01:43):
That this evident you're hearing is going to end tomorrow?
So basically this EVIDENTI you're hearing is basically preparing for
the trial and basically saying this is all the evidence
is going to be admitted?

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Is that correct? That's what the cities not admitted or
not admitted in this case.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Right, Like, there's no there's no manifesto, there's no confession, just.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
A guy with a hash Browns.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Really see MANGIONI is gonna be at McDonald's eating a
hash brown sooner than we think.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
It's gonna be the Luigi Big Maxoon.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Yeah, my gosh, well, Jared, I think this is the
last time of this calendar year that we will be
graced with your presence. And I think we all thank
you for elevating the discourse every time you're here and
giving us so much information, so sincereous, thanks.

Speaker 6 (01:02:31):
Thank you questions, and I learn here by the way,
I learn more from all of you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Jarrett, which one of us is your favorite answer Stephanie's
favorite quession?

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Listen?

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
If you want to find more of Jarrett and he doesn't,
you can find him on Instagram. He is at Jarrett
Farentino and you can also preorder his upcoming book on Amazon,
Mother's Murders Motivations.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
We Love you, have a great holiday. Welcome back to
true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime all
the time. Steph here with Courtney and Body and these

(01:03:17):
little nuggets have just been dancing the little hearts out,
and I've got a smile on my face, So yes,
should we go to a quick talk back?

Speaker 12 (01:03:27):
Hi, ladies, about the p Diddy case on Netflix. There
was so much stuff on there. I didn't know. He's
a bit of a worm, isn't He sort of got
rid of all the competition, not because he's so good,
but everyone seemed to have mysteriously died.

Speaker 10 (01:03:40):
What I thought was.

Speaker 12 (01:03:41):
Strange was how they mentioned kim Porter but didn't talk
about her death unless I missed it, And that his
son was there a lot. What a weird relationship to
have with your son.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Oh huh understatement, isn't that the truth in a worm?

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Yes, he is a little worm. That is so well said.
We've all talked about Australia. Relationship was strange.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
You know, it doesn't seem very appropriate that even in
the footage that we saw that was you know, by
the documentary filmmaker that was there in the days prior
to his arrest in the hotel room. I even thought
it was strange that the sun was just like laying
on the couch and like so in the mix on that.
Just as a parent, you think you would want to
protect your your your sons from even having exposure to

(01:04:29):
all this gross information.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
I don't think our man Diddy had a comfortable relationship
with boundaries because I never do those.

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
Kinds of things in front of my mom, Like like
that crosses me out. Like even like a sex scene
on TV, I'd be like, oh, my mom's in the room,
you know what I mean, At least to this day,
I feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
No.

Speaker 10 (01:04:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:04:52):
Meanwhile, I'm sure the Sun's heard about everything that was
happening at the you know, the wild parties that and
there was like baby oil in that hotel room.

Speaker 10 (01:04:59):
Still I know, like expired.

Speaker 5 (01:05:02):
Were they doing a freak off in that in that
hotel rooms? If he's listening, he needs to know that's
not normal. It's just relationship that you had with your
father is not normal. You've been groomed or something.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Dude like Well, and we'll see how the civil suits.

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
But I remember one we dug into in real detail,
and I mean it was by the absolute playbook of
what was presented by the prosecution in Dinny's federal case
is what Justin is accused to every detail.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
So that's so true. Yeah, it is so true.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
I Mean they squarely blame real things on Justin Colmes
in this documentary. And even for mom Janis Colmbs. I've
always been so curious about her, and you know, she
did come out publicly to say like that wasn't true.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
You never hit me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I'm like Janice, miss Janis, and I say this respectfully.
If that is your biggest correction out of all the
allegations in this documentary about your son, there's plenty.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
I didn't he didn't murder anybody. He didn't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
But like she came guns of blazing that you know
it was true that he put a hand to her.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
It just seems like a big fat mess. And what
about kim Porter in the kim Porter don't get we started?

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Well, I have a thought.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
I have a thought on that go because I had
the same inquiry as you did. Talkbacker from Australia and
who knows, but perhaps the Diddy and the rest of
the crew producing this were swede that kim Porter's children
have come out multiple times and strongly and just said

(01:06:41):
please stop with the questions. It was elaborate, it was
well said, but that was the.

Speaker 5 (01:06:49):
Oh I didn't realize that they had done that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Yeah, there was so in a case, you don't know
the scuttle butt around this. To quote the great body move,
then it is basically that kim Port, who you know
as you saw in the documentary, was married to Ditty,
et cetera. And she died of pneumonia, and apparently, according
to her family, had some sort of an underlying health
condition and that therefore was not unusual. What is unusual

(01:07:14):
was always kind of being like scratched at from theorists.
Was that a you know, it was a very unexpected death,
and there didn't seem to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Be any illness leading up to it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
By all accounts, she was fairly healthy and living a
very vibrant life with young children. Two, it's always been
suspicious or odd I should say that Corey, who is
Chris Jenner's boyfriend or ex boyfriend something, why was he there?
And that the same coroner was also the same coroner
who also had the same pneumonia diagnosis as to cause

(01:07:51):
of death in multiple other cases. Brittany Murphy comes up
quite a bit like there just seem to be like
a lot of pneumonia in the mix. Yeah, So that's
kind of where the conspiracy theories lie. And there was
also the accusation that Kim was writing a book.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
We don't know if this part is true.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
I'm so curious if anybody does that she was writing
a bit of a tell all about her experience. I mean,
you watch it, You're like, wow, she just cross paths
with Cassie on camera. We see it happening, like the
level of disregard that he had for this beautiful woman
who bared his children.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
He has his girlfriend already right in the mix.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
You know, we see them literally crossing paths at the
same photo shoot.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
You know that had to be hard.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
So the speculation is that, you know, she was she
was taken out because she was maybe going to reveal
too much. I don't know, you know, it really got
glossed over in the documentary, and there's a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
That talk about it.

Speaker 10 (01:08:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
I got the impression from Albie Sure though, that he
kind of was sus of us.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
He comes straight out and says that he killed him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Yeah, like that is his working theory from Jump Street
is Albi Shore, who is also Kimporter's ex. You've seen
him in the dock. Did he allegedly stole Kimporter from
al be Sure? Albi Sure squarely says did. He is
responsible for her death right, and then allegedly there was
two like coroner's reports, like the cause of death change

(01:09:21):
from the scene to the actual.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Where do you go when you take a body?

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
More amazing the morgue exactly. I'm sure we could find
that out.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Let's put body, move it on it, let's get we task.
So that's that's one thing that was glossed over.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
And then also the the KK Christina Korum, who was
his right hands and we saw her a little bit
at a table kind of at the very end of
the documentary and she really stayed out of the trial altogether,
but so much has been said and written about her
involvement in Diddy world. He was basically her chief of

(01:09:59):
staff and likely had a lot of access to all
of these scary things. And is that just because either
fifty cent is setting the stage for part two and
some of these murders will be looked into deeper potentially
kim porter, and is KK just going to be the
front man for all of these civil lawsuits that are pending.

Speaker 5 (01:10:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:10:27):
This is true crime tonight, and I heart Rader. We're
talking true crime all the time. We're talking about Diddy.
Because our wonderful listener from Australia left the amazing talkback
and now we've just kind of gone off on a tangent.
Since we're already on this tangents, Tony, let's talk about
Gallane ky Lane.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
So I guess that's the question. It's an evolving story.
We don't know all of the information we had. You know,
mentioned this a couple of weeks ago because I had
read from her counsel, which is interesting because it doesn't
appear that she even has counsel at this point, but
that she was in fact going to open a request

(01:11:01):
to have her sentence vacated. And she believes that there
is new important information that has been revealed that makes
it very obvious that she had an unfair trial, right, YadA, YadA, YadA.

Speaker 5 (01:11:13):
She's saying that exculpatory evidence was withheld at her trial,
which is a pretty that's a in my you know,
I would I wish share it was here. But that's
a pretty strong accusation to make. It's a Brady violation.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
That's there's no way he's asleep yet.

Speaker 5 (01:11:32):
You know, she's she filed a hapeus corpus petition. She's
representing herself. She's pro se in Manhattan Federal Court, claiming
that substantial new evidence we don't know what the evidence is.
You know, it shows her trial was unfair and constitutionally flawed.
And you know, she's asking the court to actually argues
that this information that has emerged, She's saying there's new information,

(01:11:55):
you know, and that it emerged since her appeals were
exhausted in you know, it's including her any evidence from
litigation against the FBI financial institutions, Epstein's estate, as well
as sworn depositions, released records. She claims, you know, the
exculpatory evidence was withheld, a false testimony was presented, material

(01:12:17):
facts were misrepresented to the jury. She alleges multiple constitutional violations,
including juror misconduct and government suppression of evidence, and said
that these undermines the fairness of her original trial.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
And this she's all doing from the Comfy library that
she has access to twenty four hours a day, which and.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
That's why when I saw this, I freaked out.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
You freaked out, and then it freaked me out because
I'm like, you know what, you guys were so right,
And I guess this is what I'm so mad about,
Not that you guys were right. You're always right. I
guess that's the truth. You're always right. But That's not
why I'm mad. I'm just mad because I feel a
little plate you know, I fell for it yet again, like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Here we were, Oh, Friday's the big day. Friday's the
big days, so it felt like could still happened.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
I'm not going to happen, you know what I call
I even I know it's not going to happen now, which.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Breaks my heart because I really do believe.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
In it, in transparency and when someone says they're going
to do something, that they do it. And it's not
just this pretend, this pretend little high school play called
oh let's just keep moving around those Epsteine files. It's
like absurd at this point, and.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
There are victims that do you really need answers?

Speaker 5 (01:13:27):
Do you think, well, damn a Gina retired. Well, basically
he announces he's leaving the FBI. Do you think that
has anything to do with this? Yes, I do.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
And I'm so confused by Dan Bengino. And again, I'm
not a political person. So if we want to like
talk about politics, I'm happy to. But it's mostly because
I'm not the most informed, but I really want to
be and I care so much about this country and
I find myself right smack in the middle. It's no
really unclear who to listen to and who to believe in.
And it's such a bummer when you just feel like

(01:13:59):
you're being all the time, no matter which.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Side do you look at.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Where's Marjorie Taylor like screaming from the rooftops to help
with this? Right now, Dan Bongino, you were gonna make
all these big, big things happen. And you know I
was listening to him on podcasts and things, yeap, but
about how the.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Transparency of these files is everything.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
And I mean that was his thing, that the impossibility
that he's retiring in protest of this.

Speaker 5 (01:14:23):
Like here's the thing. We don't know that the files
aren't going to be released. It's it's being speculated that
because this petition happened, that it could halt certain releases
of the files, which is true, which is what I
said a month ago, right like something's going to happen.
You know, they're investigating Bill Clinton, open investigations are going
to halt the release and it's you know, anyway, the

(01:14:47):
thing that I can't get out of my head is
Gallainne Maxwell sitting in this comfy prison and she got
that comfy prison for a reason.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Is this the whole deal?

Speaker 10 (01:15:00):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
And then two days before we're going to promise the
whole country. We're going to release all the files.

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
I'm gonna sign it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Oh yeah, get the cameras rolling, of course, you know
America first. And then we'll have Glaine. She's gonna come
in the eleventh hour. You don't even need a lawyer, Gaylaane, because.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
Well you have the warden to help you after hours
with your But the warden went.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
To Yale probably law school, and we're just going to
pretend he's the warden and this.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Is all going to be great.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
It's like I feel like I'm in a bad upside
down movie. I'm like, oh, welcome to the hotel called
upside Down House.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Here's your key.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Welcome, stay forever. And nothing seems like it makes sense
right now. And it's like all of these ah, all
of these murdering men all night, Make them stop, make
them stop, all these privileged murdering men on top of it, which, boy,
does it just show you that money can't buy happiness
or grace or class or success or growth, you know,

(01:15:59):
for anyone who was just wishing for more and more
and more under the Christmas tree, and I wish I
had a big this, and I wish I had the fancy.
Is that careful what you wish for? Chances are you
have a much healthier, happier, cozier life.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
And sometimes simple is good. That's true, Tangent.

Speaker 5 (01:16:13):
Sorry, Well, one of my New Year's resolutions is to simplify,
oh you know, and not consume as much same like
the consumer. Does that make sense?

Speaker 6 (01:16:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
I mean I think the fires taught me that item
oh items.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Yeah, I think I was.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Like maybe heading down a boogier path and getting ahead
of my skis. And I'm not saying that that's why
the fires happened in my world specifically, but as I now,
I love my home goods and did you know it's
like if it's not on sale, I don't want to
see it. You know, my mindset has gone back so
deeply to a different place, and it's so true.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
Simple is better. We don't need all this nonsense.

Speaker 5 (01:16:53):
And you know, who knows if you get that golden toilet,
you might end up in these files.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
Oh yeah, they just.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Need four hundred million dollar dollars spent on a dance floor.
That makes total sense. Tell that to everybody who can't
buy eggs. You know, it's like bumming me out. Just
when I think I feel good about it, then I
end up.

Speaker 5 (01:17:08):
Don't get too bumped yet. We might we might be
be you know, getting ahead of ourselves. There's no you know,
there's no guarantee that this is going to be an issue.
This is what it's being reported by ABC News that
this could halt the release of certain information. And then
when you consider Gilling got the sweet deal at this

(01:17:29):
you know, five star resort, a ka prison. She's in
quote unquote with the butler who's also the warden, you know,
carries her umbrella for her. You know, like that's it
just it just adds up, right. It's all speculated, though,
like we don't know for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Can we ask Elane why the dentists share? Can you
at least explain any questions? Describe what the hell is? Yeah,
what's up with those masks? Why did you have that glove?

Speaker 6 (01:17:59):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
Yeah, with the glove?

Speaker 5 (01:18:00):
Please move exactly, and there.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
Are the victims going to show up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
I actually text texted Lisa Bryan during the break. It's
probably very late at her house, but you know, she
was the director of Filthy Rich the documentary, And I'm curious,
are the are the victims going to make a big
showing on Friday and Friday if in fact something doesn't
go down as expected? Is there suddenly going to be
a big event sometime between then and now?

Speaker 5 (01:18:26):
Because TikTok, tick talk, Well, coming up, TikTok, We're done,
coming up, turning it over to you Boom. Your talk
backs are next, keep you right there, Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking
true crime all the time. Stefph here with Courtney and
Body and let's go to a.

Speaker 13 (01:18:56):
Talk bout Hi, everybody. It's Deanna from Georgia. I'm listening
to last night's podcast and I feel like I need
to give you all a big hug on this Anna
Kepner story. And I just wanted to point out if
she was in contact with her mom's sister, Surely her
mom's sister told her at some point that she was
trying to contact her. So hopefully that'll make you guys

(01:19:18):
feel better. Otherwise I would doubt sister's stort right well.

Speaker 5 (01:19:24):
Said you know, so it's so I'm so glad you
said that. Because I really was upset. It's so much
so that after the show, Courtney mentioned the same exact
thing to me, because you know, when you get emotional
sometimes you're not thinking clearly. And I really was like upset.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Yeah, and she.

Speaker 5 (01:19:41):
And Courtney and and you Deanna. I love your name,
by the way. Hello, that's my real name, by the way.
We're so right obviously, yes, And that made me feel
so much better. And like, I just my heart was
just broken for Anna, you know what I mean. And
I just I just it just broke my heart. So
thank you so much for the talk back and hug

(01:20:02):
right back, hug right back, hug right back. I'm a hugger.
I love hugs too. It's very important they we're all huggers,
are we.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
Yeah. I bet Sam is not a hugger. Sam. I
think Sam is a big hugger without a hug Sam,
good luck. See, I was.

Speaker 5 (01:20:23):
Gonna say, you're very wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
I am very much a hugger. Got to completely correct.
Like everybody here is like a big bear.

Speaker 5 (01:20:31):
We're all big more masculine bear.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
Like he's not big.

Speaker 5 (01:20:36):
I don't mean like he's a big, but you know,
he just I could definitely hug Sam for.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Sure, do you take leave? Where do use land? So
I don't mind a hug. I always hug my friends
when I'm greeting them and stuff. Oh good, Yeah, my
family is not so touchy.

Speaker 5 (01:20:50):
But but you know, we you know, we'll hug hello.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
I love it. You know who doesn't love a hug?

Speaker 10 (01:20:58):
I love I love it. That don't like I've hugged them,
and they're like.

Speaker 5 (01:21:03):
So I like people I know, not people I don't know.
You know, like people have tried to hug people have
tried to do things, you know, out in public, and
I'm like, what is happening what One guy at a
hockey game was like, are you Oh my god, your
body moving from And I was like yes, and he
was like he started grabbing my hair and stuff. Like
my friends had like drag him away. It was very weird.

(01:21:26):
I don't like that kind of stuff. But I love
me a hug from a friend.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
So your biggest hug when I met you, I give
you the biggest, craziest hug.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
Like that was a crazy, big hug. I'm coming at
you live like a man like Hawaiian punch, right.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
That's the kool Aid guys, the kool aid guy, You're like,
what is happening, Let's go to a talk back.

Speaker 14 (01:22:00):
I'm listening to you speak about reading books or not
reading books. I feel like that's most of us in RMO.
We want to read, but we never really make the time.
I recently read not a true crime anything. Sometimes I
think you guys need an escape. It's called Paradise Reimagine.
It's a romance novel and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
It's very saucy. Loved every moment of it. Could hardly
put it down. Have a good one.

Speaker 10 (01:22:25):
WHOA, it was a saucy romance.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
Ohow, I like a saucy romance. Wait, so I Paradise Revisited.

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
Reimagined imagine. Looking at it right now, it's a romantic,
steamy tale of desire, passion and love.

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
All right, I'm going to buy this on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
Right by the way, I have a Christmas tree being
delivered tomorrow, A real one.

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
I have a real one in honor.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Of our talkback who I promise in the bottom of
my heart that I would get a real tree. It
won't have any ornaments on it because they're already on
the fake one. I can't be transferring it. That seems
crazy and it likely won't have lights on it, but
I will get some tinsel going on that and a nice.

Speaker 10 (01:23:03):
Little star ba.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
Don't forget to water it, for sure, forget to water it, don't.
You guys are going to want to know you can't though.

Speaker 5 (01:23:11):
Really you have to water it, right, you're making it
so fun.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
Well, I think.

Speaker 10 (01:23:18):
You just sit it in the water, right, isn't that right?

Speaker 9 (01:23:20):
I thought you just feel it the water thing has water.
As long as it has water, make sure it's okay.
Do I have to fill it every day? I mean
I don't know how much I drink.

Speaker 11 (01:23:30):
Yeah, if it's kind of soaks it up, maybe that
could be you know, Austin's project.

Speaker 10 (01:23:34):
You are in charge.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
Yeah, maybe it's to sign that.

Speaker 4 (01:23:37):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
What happens? It dies fire, fire, I.

Speaker 6 (01:23:41):
Know that's what.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
I didn't want to say that word, but I know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
It was so crazy about water. But also it dries out.

Speaker 10 (01:23:50):
The pine needles will all fall on the.

Speaker 5 (01:23:52):
Ground, and the pine needles will fall and it will die.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
Yeah, and that won't be very festive.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Okay, So well, I'm going to absolutely keep it water
every single day. There you go, and I'm going to
check and it's going to be perfect and it's gonna
smell delicious, and I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
Going to keep the tree farms alive. You know, I
really almost.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
I was so conflicted because I wanted to go and
get a tree. I was gonna go and get a
very small live tree because of that talk back. That
hurt my heart a little bit. And what a great
career you have. But body like you were saying, just down,
I have been. I try and buy like I have

(01:24:33):
too much stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
I have to oh because you guys had me whine
about it. I had to for whatever reason, empty basically
my entire.

Speaker 4 (01:24:42):
House and put it all back in and just I'm like,
it's just too much altogether. So I'm trying.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
To give everything away.

Speaker 4 (01:24:51):
I've given a way you cannot imagine. And also in
terms of consumerism, by nothing is about the only.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
It's a it's a Facebook group.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
It's the maybe literal only social media thing I do
outside of work is to give stuff away or get
stuff that I don't want to buy. I wanted a
ninja blender. Anyone done with their ninja blender? Here it
is pick it up free, thank you?

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
Wait, where do you do that? What is this a
little barter?

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
It's a whole little like mom group that she deals
with too. That's like running a high stakes trading operation.

Speaker 4 (01:25:26):
I've seen this go down you but no, it's it's
in all neighborhoods. Anyone here can join their Facebook by
like b U, I buy nothing. It's it's a national thing.
I feel like, body, you wouldn't like it because you
wouldn't like.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
The people. Yeah, you're shaking your head, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
I wouldn't have liked it probably in a different time.
But now I like it.

Speaker 4 (01:25:51):
I give it, and I'm like, oh, I'm done with
whatever it is, cookbooks, pots, anything.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
Hey, does anyone want this coone in my house?

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
See?

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
I just leave it on my porch. And it's all
very hyper hyper local. Giving me your address, Yeah you sure?
Can you leave it at your curb? I'm sure, yeah,
you can organize.

Speaker 3 (01:26:12):
But well, as.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Somebody who has been living on hand me downs, I
was so grateful when people just literally gave me all
of their stuff, literally, Like I had bags of people's
clothes that I it's only recently that I stopped wearing
them because I thought they were good luck at that point,
and I think I've been corrected.

Speaker 6 (01:26:29):
I was.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
There is an error in my ways buying.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
Things off the racks, or you know, not wearing things
enough times because oh, I've seen that too many times.
I wore that to that, you know, wedding or an
event like who cares? So what where again? You know
anybody knows that in.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
The real world.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
But I think I was like a little in the
La bubble for a hot second, and it got away
from me.

Speaker 5 (01:26:53):
I think it gets away from all of us though,
Like I mean, I've done it too, you know. I. Oh,
you know how many pairs of Doc Martins I have?
I have like seven five pairs of dog Martins. You
don't buy Why you have that in your.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
House right now? Yes? Oh, you have to give those
away immediately. It's bad.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
It's that's actually bad energy. You want to make sure
when you buy something to Again, I'm not doling at advice.
I have very few things at this point, but I
will say, as somebody who had a lot of things,
when you give something, when you get something, you take.

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
Something out something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
So when you get a pair of shoes, I have
four pairs of shoes right now, and I really do
need a good pair of winter boots, like the kind
that you don't slip on the ice.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
We can see that coming about.

Speaker 10 (01:27:31):
That's important.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
I can get a lot of I can barely, but
like I have like really, you know, and I've gotten
a gift or something I cherish, but you know, if
if I get another pair of shoes, then I'm gonna
give the ones away.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
That's good, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
So you keep the flow going, or you get X
amount of hangers in your closet.

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
With the capsule wardrobes a lot of thought, but if
you have X amount of hangers in.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
Your closet, you never ever use more. It's a wardrobe.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
A capsule wardrobe is like, hey, I'm going to get
one black skirt and then a pair of really like
Jigi black blouse and a pair of jean You have
six items, like nine items, but they all interchange, like
in theory, we should all just be able to live
out of the suitcase. And then you love your clothes,
Like how much clothes did I really have that I

(01:28:21):
never wore ever, you know, or that were shoved in
there because I'm like, oh, I'm going to need that
white T shirt that has like you know.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
That's me. I have, like the old.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Navy leggings that I got on sale at Old Navy
ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
Why do I still need those?

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
So now that I got a real fresh start, I'm
very intentional about what I put in the house or
even put on my body.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
If I don't love it, I don't want to wear it.
If I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
If you see me in it a lot, say I
love it. I love the sweater that you're wearing ski Lodge.

Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
And my girlfriends bought me this. Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
And it's so nice and it's so cozy. I wear
it every day. I practically live in it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
I need so it's like your house sweater. It's my
house sweater. I have one of those.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Yeah, it's so so warm, it's really nice and I
love it and one day I'll retire it and somebody
else will love it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:14):
And I bought it I think at Old maybe for
like ten dollars. Like no, man, it's my favorite sweater.
That's to relate, you know, I need to do that
because I really like that buying with intention and you
know whatnot maybe I'll yeah, I'm going to have It's like.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Even our makeup drawer that has like, you know, ninety blushes.
In it. Not that we had ninety blushes, but you
know I have like old makeup, or at least I
did in a drawer that I never really opened because
I never really needed the weird nectar.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
Colored blush, you know, like who's going there?

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Like, if you're not really wearing it or using it
on the daily, then let somebody else have it, and
let somebody else use it and pay it forward.

Speaker 5 (01:29:51):
It make for yourself, especially in these times. No, I'm
all about that. I'm all about that. I'm yeah, it's
a really good idea, maybe because like you you know,
like this bo this no.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
Bi ger right that you were speaking of.

Speaker 5 (01:30:01):
I like the idea of it, but I'd rather donate it,
you know, will yea.

Speaker 11 (01:30:10):
I used to do like a closet clean and then
I would take the bags of clothing to like sort
of the areas where I knew there were a lot
of homeless people, and then I.

Speaker 10 (01:30:16):
Would just sort of give the bags to the people.
But you have to be careful, to be careful.

Speaker 5 (01:30:22):
I don't want to do that either, because I feel
I feel like that that makes me feel weird, Like
your stuff, I don't want you take it, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
That makes me feel weird.

Speaker 5 (01:30:31):
Well, but donating it to an organization that would help
a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Like honestly, like everybody's treasure, you know, your trash, their
treasure like that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:42):
I I love everybody. I really have appreciation for people's stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Funny, I was gifted a massage just just like a
year and a half ago. I was gifted a massage
and the messius came to my house at the time
versus pre and he was like from Russia or something
that had been Yes, it was a heat and his
wife and they came as a little twosome.

Speaker 3 (01:31:02):
She brought this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
In and my mom was with me. It wasn't anything weird,
but she was suddenly went like sideways.

Speaker 3 (01:31:10):
But he was.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
He had just moved, he had you know, he came
to this country and started from scratch, used to be
a doctor. He didn't even have a blender, nothing. And
I remember thinking like that's amazing, like how you know, wow,
wow wow, and being really grateful like wow, like I
love my life so much. Fast forward to you know,
post fires, I get gifted the same massage by the
same person and he comes over and he oh, no blender,

(01:31:34):
Oh he brought are you kidding?

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
Beautiful? And I was like, you know what, it's like,
we are all the same.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Can I just be honest, all the same the level
the playing field gets leveled sometimes my friends, and it
was like the humanity and so many has been honestly
the biggest takeaway of twenty twenty five. Not to get
into soapbox, but we don't need so much stuff. And
I can just say that firsthand. I'm almost a little embarrassed.
I had like a RELIGII purse and I cared about

(01:32:04):
the wallet being nice and you know, right.

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
You know, your select matters more.

Speaker 5 (01:32:10):
I agree, I totally agree. I don't need seventy five
pairs of dog Martins. Would somebody would die for those?

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
Docs? Well, I mean I've had them.

Speaker 5 (01:32:17):
I mean these are dog Martins that I've had for
twenty years or not, like, you know, like seventy five pairs.

Speaker 3 (01:32:26):
Over the long period of time.

Speaker 6 (01:32:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
It's also you know, I think Courtney and I were
developing a show once about home improvements or something or
cleaning out your house, and there was like this odd
set statistic about people in their storage facilities that like
people like the world of the United States, and I
think I'm getting this number wrong, but it's like a
billion dollars in storage facilities.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
That's that's so much, so big. I have too much
crap at our house. We have to buy a storage there.

Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
Stay and ps, if you're debating, oh I'm going to
put X, Y and Z in storage, you may as
well get the unused burn cage or whatever, because the
likelihood of you ever taking something out of storage is
incredibly small.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
And again, if it's not a treasure, or if you're
not gonna what was the role that we learned on
that show, either yeah it's like or for it or
show it wasn't that the store it or show it
yeah or something like that. Or if it's a treasure,
then it should be on a shelf for something.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
It needs to really see.

Speaker 10 (01:33:30):
Yeah, it needs to stalk some joy.

Speaker 3 (01:33:33):
And it's true, you know, yeah, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:39):
But you know again, I think we're especially at the holidays,
we're like, oh, I wish I had this, and I
wish I had that, and god knows I've done that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:45):
My list was very long.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Always and I'm going to be honest, I legitimately want
for nothing this year, Not a single gift I want.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
I have my lip gloss, I have my things.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
I'm so grateful, and I feel bad that maybe I
wasn't grateful enough this year.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
Don't do that. That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:34:04):
Yeah, And you don't need to feel bad about it,
and you shouldn't at all, and you shouldn't, so I'd
let go of that. If you're giving things away, I would,
I would. Really.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
Let's give me your hat, how about that?

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
You know what a little do with this cozy sweater, that
hat and some Doc Martin's awesome listen. We'll be back tomorrow.
Thank you for the great night, Have a good one
and stay safe.