Unsealed Documents in the Idaho Student Murders Reveal Disturbing Insights, and Ghislaine Maxwell’s Secret DOJ Meeting

The team breaks down shocking revelations from 300+ unsealed Idaho murder documents, the latest on “dopey dentist” James Craig’s murder plots and mistresses, and a new guilty plea in Matthew Perry’s death. Plus, reality TV powerhouse SallyAnn Salsano joins us to discuss it all. Salsano, founder of 495 Productions—the force behind Jersey Shore and The Snake on FOX—has shaped some of TV’s biggest hits. If you’ve ever shouted “GTL,” you know her work. Tune in for all the details.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Thursday, July twenty fourth, and
we have a stack night a headlines and as you know,
there's been so much information out in the press.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
By the way, it's Thursday. Even better, there's been.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
So much time in there's been so much press today
and documents being dropped because of this, you know, Brian
Coberger new release of him now being in prison. We
have all the information and there's a lot to unpack,
so we're going to kind of do a broad strokes
on that later in the show. But also Epstein, this
is heating up even more. We know for fact now

(00:56):
that Delane Maxwell, the co conspirator in this whole Epstein
mess met with the DOJ for roughly six hours and
we want to hear from you what you think that
may mean. So please jump in join the conversation eight
eight eight three one crime, or you could always leave
us a voicemail.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Believe it or not.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
There's like an old school voice machine on that number.
And then also these talkbacks which you just download the
iHeart app for free top right hand corner, push a
button and boom. Leave your opinion on the show or
just join us live. I'm Stephanie Lai Decker and the
head of KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts
and documentaries, and I get to be here every night

(01:37):
with Courtney Armstrong, our crime producer. You'll also know her
hosting voice from so many of our podcasts and also
Crime Analyst's Body Move in Don't f with Cats Netflix,
you'll also know that. And now we also have a
special guest, Sally and Salsano, who is the TV powerhouse
behind The Jersey Shore and now the Snake on Fox.

(01:59):
We've all been in many control rooms together over the
years and we're so psyched to have you here. Congrats
on the show Tuesday nights. Make sure you check it out.
And look, we know you have an opinion on this
stuff because, for example, this Epstein thing is like a
reality show, so who better to kind of roll up
their sleeves with us?

Speaker 4 (02:20):
So I should have brought my friend on from the
Mole and it could have been the snake in the mole.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
But how my.

Speaker 5 (02:25):
Word, it's like a Chinese astrology calendar.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
That is it is right.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
So welcome, welcome, welcome. So look, yeah, Thursday, it's been
a long week. Body and I are kind of fighting
through some sort of something. So we're excited to have
you know, another opinion. Listen, that's also veto and hello.
So all dogs are welcome here in the studio. By
the way, So where should we begin with this Epstein thing? Courtney,
do you want to start us off.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Or body take it away? Actually bring it.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
So today we just talkedst. Glaine Maxwell met with top
officials at Department of Justice, reportedly in hopes of like
obtaining information about potential criminal activity by associates of her
late confidant and partner, Jeffrey Epstein. Glaine Maxwell again is
convicted of trafficking charges in twenty twenty one and relating

(03:19):
to her activities as a madam right, she was kind
of like Epstein's confidant, right hand man, madam. You know,
he was the billionaire financer that was convicted of child crimes.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
I don't want to say it. It kind of grosses me
out though. When they weren't all.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
There were so many, you know, regular aged women and
of course miners.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Well, Glaine Maxwell apparently she recruited some of these girls, right,
including miners, which were trying to come up with some
words for or Epstein to like sexually abuse.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Right.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
So she met with the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche,
and it's taking place at the US Attorney's office in Tallahassee.
That's where she's being incarcerated in Tallahassee. Blanche declined to
speak with reporters as he walked into the building, which
is housed in Tallahassee's Federal courthouse, and Maxwell's lawyer, David

(04:13):
Marcus told reporters he was looking forward to a productive day.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Now.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
It's unclear whether Maxwell is trying to get this meeting
to secure a lighter sentence or especially a pardon in
exchange for cooperation. We don't know, Like, we just don't know,
and we don't know what information she's even willing to offer.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I don't think she's looking for more of jail time. Oh,
of course not. No, of course she's not.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
And also, just to make sure I'm playing along correctly,
So Trump is our president. Pam Bondy in a lot
of heat two weeks ago because she's saying, we're going
to get these files released, yay, because everybody's always said
that those files from Epstein, the client list will be released.
Then she actually says it's going to happen the next day.
Then there's a big take back. Ooh, sorry, I didn't

(04:59):
mean to say that. There actually is no client list.
There's really nothing to see here. He did commit suicide.
There is no there there right, So now here we
are fast forward. We hear that Pam Bondy back in
the day is I think appointed by Trump? Again, I
am not a political expertise here, so please jump in
environment and misspoken on any way, join the conversation. I'm

(05:23):
dying to hear more. But if Pam Bondy said, hey, Trump,
you're in some of these files, that doesn't mean it's
on a client list. By the way, there's probably many
people on that. But maybe that has shaped some of
this narrative.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
So the thing is she's definitely going to be looking
for a pardon, I think, no matter what. But then
that isn't that some kind of conflict of interest? Because
I'm asking you to give me a get out of
jail free card. Literally what happens that there is something
in there like is she going to be able to tell?
And then with the part and hold up, it's like,
I know, we all do everything very above board as

(05:59):
they say, but the reality TV producer in me is
definitely like, Okay, sure you're going to get a pardon.
There's no way you're going to give up the goods.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well, she is appealing her conviction to the Supreme Court,
arguing she is immune for prosecution through the two thousand
and seven deal that required Epstein to pleate guilty to
procuring child for prostitution and redstre as a sex offender
in and part of that deal was that any of
Epstein's people would would.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Not be prosecuted.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
But she has no legal she has no legal leg
to stand on because that two thousand and seven and
I think we had we did a great Jarret Farentino
speaking with us, the two thousand and seven deal was
a state matter in Florida, and through that Epstein's cohorts
had immunity.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
This is a federal case, so there's nothing to your.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Point, though the Supreme Court doesn't hear every case and
they've selected to hear this case.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
So what does that pose?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
What does that mean? And I guess I'm not connecting
the final dot. You know what you're referring to Courtney
and body, I suppose and Ali and yeah, everybody's referring
to it is this case in Florida West Palm Beach.
And you know, basically Epstein was brought up on charges
and convicted and given a slap on his wrist essentially,
and that seemed like we let a pedophile out on
the loose, potentially allegedly.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
And now here we are now, many.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Years later, it's very u there's up for a lot
of conversation whether it was a suicide or not. Many
forensics experts, including our very own has come on to
say it just doesn't add up. It was definitely murder
and not a suicide. What does that mean? And now
it just seems like it's escalating on all sides, right,
So I don't know what the end result is. I

(07:46):
don't know which person to point the finger at. It
just seems a little scary. And you know, how else
does this affect us in ways that we don't know?

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Right?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's scary because like, who is held accountable, right, Like
if the person who's saying we'll get you out of
jail is saying what you're going to say to get
out of jail, because that's maybe participation in this that
sounds a little missy.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
If you tell.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Us, oh, I feel like I'm talking and code.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
You know, like Obama's on the list, and you tell
us you know all of basically all my enemies. Right,
if you can tell me all my enemies are your
clients and you get out of jail, that's how I feel.

Speaker 6 (08:25):
What you were sinuating earlier was that that Epstein essentially
took the hit for everyone when he was saying, fine,
I'll talk, but then you have to make sure everyone
in my camp is clean. Was he like, you're going
to put it all on himself potentially or protect his people?
So is that what's being appealed by the Supreme Court? Then?
Is that what she's going back like, Hey, what happened

(08:46):
to that?

Speaker 7 (08:47):
Are?

Speaker 6 (08:47):
And I okay? Because he took it.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
On top of that, while we're at it, we're also
it seems like there is no client list and this
has nothing much to do about nothing for everybody on
this list, all these men Epstein included, so why am
I serving twenty years behind bars as Gile Maxwell, the
co conspirator, the co conspirator of what if there was
no sex trafficking ring? Why am I buying Mars? I

(09:10):
can see that train of thought. It's because she's a
convicted sex offender that she's also and now it just
seems very messy. I don't know if anybody does, please
jump in join the conversation at eight eight eighty three
to one crime.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Certainly, I'm not the arbiter of any of.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
These things, but I know people have an opinion about it,
and it seems to not be going away anytime soon,
and it seems like very big people are involved at
a very top level.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
And what does that mean?

Speaker 5 (09:36):
Well, people are joining the conversation because we actually have
a talkback right now that pertains to this.

Speaker 8 (09:41):
I think a lot of people say grooming because it's
quick and easy to say, it sounds snappy, and it
gets the point across. With coercive malignant control, it's a
little harder to say, let's call it CMC or I
love it, another little short way to phrase it. So
it's maybe easier to get the moniker out there and

(10:06):
easier to get on people's lips.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
That's a really great suggestion, I do. I just feel
like if we abbreviate the word.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
When we're talking about grooming, we were kind of talking
about how it applies both to adults and children, and
I had kind of like raised my hair up a
little bit, going, well.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
It shouldn't apply to adults. Adults are able to make decisions.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
Adults aren't vulnerable, like unless they are vulnerable, unless you're
a vulnerable adult, you know.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, that was my point. I'm like, well, there's plenty
of vulnerable adults wondering and.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
I'm not lie and I'm not talking about vulnerable adults.
I'm talking about like me. I'm able to make up
my own mind. I'm able to make my own decisions,
and everything that I do is my responsibility.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Legally competent, legal, get accountable as a result. That's a
perfect way.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
So we kind of I feel grooming should be reserved
for ld because they are truly the ones that are
at risk and vulnerable, and we should have a different
word for adults.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
And they can't sense.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
For consent, right, And so this is where this talk
back is coming from. It's coming from we came up
with this course of malignant control and it doesn't roll
off the tongue very well. She's right, but I feel
if we abbreviate it, it kind of takes the meaning
away from it, like it's it's not as impactful. Does
that make sense? Like you just can't win, all right.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
You can't win.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I like the idea of it because I do can
see the bumper sticker, right, So yeah, Britney, what do
you think?

Speaker 5 (11:35):
I think there's so many questions and that this will
be this definition specifically, which I love. This conversation continues
on grooming as it pertains to Gileaen Maxwell and others.
I don't know, it's all evolving what we use and
also what will happen. Like Galliene Maxwell's attorney said, it

(11:55):
is a big if whether she even will testify before
GRIS and not invoke or Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
It continued, If she did.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
That, she would testify truthfully as she always has said
she would, So it's all a question right now.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I feel like, just keep in mind, Gail Maxwell had
a father that was a con artist, right who died
a very suspicious death. She came to the United States
with you know, no money in her pockets, hooks up
with Jeffrey Epstein. This you know, house of cards of
a man who seemed to have many, many lives with
very little to show for how and they're the perfect storm, right.

(12:36):
So he's running around picking up girls. This is his
right hand woman.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
She loved him.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
So that's also a tricky part to this story because
part of that was her trying to please the one
man maybe that loved her back at some point in
some demented way. And what does that say? Not to justify,
but interesting.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
However, he loved her.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
A lot of it had to do with his wallet,
and she lived a pretty nice life on his dime
as a fact.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
But of course then she introduced him to high society.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
And right here we are her network of people right exactly.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
Listen, when we come back, we have more on this.
We have Salian Salsano, we have many of the unsealed
documents that are coming out in the Idaho student murder case.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
And keep it here.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
We are talking true crime all the time on True
Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
And look, we have a special guest the Powerhouse, Sally
Inn behind the TV hits Jersey Shore. Come on sal
you gotta say hi. And also the Snake Salian is
she listened first off, the Snake on Fox you got
to watch every Tuesday night. We're going to talk a
little bit more about that. But also Salian is the
person you want on the road trip with you to
talk about true crime because you eat this up, you

(14:00):
read it, you see it, and it seems like some
of the things we're doing in the press right now
and seeing and reading about are the kinds of things
that you would only imagine on a reality show. Right
So we've been talking about.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Listen, I've been on a reality show and it is
a true crime.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Okay, it is true crime.

Speaker 6 (14:17):
You're always trying to figure out who done it and
what their truth is. But I like to say murder
in the morning, murder bunch, a little murder before bed?

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Right? Like, literally, anytime we talk it is about the
Menandez Brothers or black old school Amy Fisher.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
You know, I feel like we've you know.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
So Sally, this the Long Island, Lolita, we got to
talk about that one one day. I feel like you
even knew Amy Fisher at some point, or at least
the butt Offukos.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
So Yeah, oh yeah, Well.

Speaker 6 (14:46):
We all worked at the mall together, at Sunrise Mall,
and you know there was a little bit My car
had been sick by Joey himself.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
No way, your car by Joey bought.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
A Fuco why not. Yeah, he ran the autom body shop.
And I was a kid that couldn't drive well. So
I always had an infinite thing and somehow he was
willing to, you know, I'm sure take the insurance claim
and run with it.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
For those that don't know this case, Joey Buttafuko was
he was married. He was married to a lovely woman
in Long Island, and he Harry Joe married Joe and
Amy Fisher was was she younger? She was a lot younger,
sixteen and she shot Mary Anne like in the face, right, yes, yes, no,

(15:30):
she survived, Yes, very so vived and with him is.

Speaker 6 (15:36):
So it's so crazy, yeah, Mary, Joe and Mary. Yeah,
they had the kids and they lived like in a
regular neighborhood. It was such a Long Island story that
you wonder how it would go today, right because she
was under her age and ultimately that never during that time.
It's so different today where people take that into an
account in a very different way. Very appears that way

(15:59):
to me.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, it's by like nineteen ninety three or something. And
to that end, she was coined The Long Island Lolita.
So again not we are not like yay Amy Fisher go,
she's a hero for shooting married joe Butafuco in the face.
Obviously violent crime. However, she was super underage, Like even
looking back now, he was really the villain of that
story and the dad in you know, Joey Buttafuco this husband,

(16:24):
he really was having an ongoing affair with this underaged woman.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
She loved him to pieces, like she was obsessed with.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Him, and therefore she went to knock off his wife
with a gun to her face. And you know, there
were TV movies written about it.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
I'm all kind of alyssa a lot. It was. It
was like dueling.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
I remember it. I was edge of my seat and yes,
that's right, that's right. Was also The Long Island Lolita?

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Oh wow.

Speaker 6 (16:56):
Yeah, And it was like it was like two nights
in a row. It was like on network it was Alissa.
On the other network it was Drew and it was like,
by the way, is what they need to do? On
the Brian Kolberger thing right now is just honestly like
I almost want to see all the different versions of
what we think happened. We may never know. It's actually

(17:17):
like a near series of movies almost. I choose your
own adventure, like what happened is the same, but how
it could have been?

Speaker 3 (17:24):
It just got on the well, what do.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
You think is like even just that if you were
to choose the adventure in your head, Sally, and first,
what do you think happens? Do you think there was
a reason that day? And do you think there well,
we know there was no relationship. By the way, that's
the big news of the moment. I'm burying the headline here.
You know, of the many documents that were released yesterday
because now there of course will not be a trial,

(17:48):
and Brian Colberger has been sentenced to life behind prison,
in prison and behind bars and is now serving that
term because of that, We've gotten some documents and there's
many more to come and we're going to crazy packed
them on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
So more on that.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
But in the big leads, one of the big leads
is that there was no connection. So sorry not to
cut you off, but what would be your scenario in
your head.

Speaker 6 (18:11):
I don't know. I want to see like twelve different
movies right now, but I really want to see like
from the side of his family also, Like I'm so
freaked out right now. I was on a phone with
Stephane earlier today talking about something completely different, but we
were talking and I was like, I can't, I can't
get over all I wanted to see was that mom
and sister. Yeah, And then I want to know why

(18:32):
they went. Were they there to support Brian? Were they
there because they felt like they had to, as humans,
show their face to the other families and it sat
in their condolences, like what is it? Why are they there?
Why is Dad home? Like I am honestly that embarrassing.
How long I could talk about that, but that is
really where I stand because I know how all the

(18:55):
family feels. I mean, they're all choosing to deal with
it differently, as they should. It's personal, but what is
going on? Like, I want to know how the Coburgers
are feeling?

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, exactly, Boddy, what's your take on that? I don't
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
I mean, I have a lot of compassion for them,
you know, they're they're victims in this too. I mean
their name has been tarnished. They're being harassed incessantly. Like
poor Amanda Coberger, who was at the hearing yesterday. Is
her pictures, her pictures being plastered all over the internet saying,
you know, oh my god, she looks just like him.
What a psycho. You know, none of this is their fault, right, Like,

(19:34):
none of this is there unless it is and.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
It is none of the undeniable. It's you know, so
that's you know, undeniable. What is she to do about that?
He has dead eyes and now it's just like him.
I mean, that's like undeniable, right, So, but she had.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
To I have to think that, you know, I have
a little I have a little brother, and if he
did something terrible like this, what would I do?

Speaker 3 (19:59):
What? What did I do?

Speaker 5 (20:01):
Well?

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Would I just show up in court and support him
because he's my brother and I love him Even though
this was horrible, you still love your family.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
It's not a hertive, right.

Speaker 6 (20:11):
It's so hard, But like, do they even try and
talk to the other families. Are the other families understanding
of that? Or as are compassionate because you know, in
obviously they're grieving and they're in so much pain, but
like everybody lost in this their everyone the way it
was also, I don't know, there's just no I just

(20:32):
when I heard that they were there, I was shocked
and like I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I understand why why do you think Boddy or Courtney,
like why.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Was Dad not there?

Speaker 7 (20:42):
That?

Speaker 4 (20:42):
I don't know that I was actually shocked by. I
was actually shocked that Dad was not there.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Was that a test like he had enough and he
was no longer going to stand by his son? Or
was that because he knew Steve Gonzalvez has it out
for him and was going to make harder.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
It just seems like there was a real optical moment there.
You know, there were real optics in mom and you know,
her sister going to actually I think probably to show
respect to the other families. There were several family members
on the victim side who did show a ton of
compassion and use their time to speak on how he's
Brian Coberger's also destroyed his own family's life. I mean,

(21:25):
I'll say, and then some for generations and generations.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, I have to imagine.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
I mean you mentioned optics, and I have to imagine
that that is the absolute furthest thing from their mind
and absolutely not paramount to who was there, who could
potentially feel like they could actually physically and emotionally handle
being there is what I think decided who was there
or not?

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Right, You're listening to True Current Tonight online Heart Radio.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
I'm Body Moven and we are right in the middle
of talking about Brian Coberger and all the documents that
have been released by the Moscow Police Department, and we
have a talkback.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Can we hear the talkback? Number three?

Speaker 9 (22:04):
I know that authorities are still so adamant and reporting
that this was a targeted attack by BK on the
for college students. I'm just curious with the gag order
that has been lifted and since the sentencing, has there
been any new information as to why they are so
adamant it was targeted and who the target truly was.

(22:25):
I know they have ideas and speculations, but has there
been any new information that's come out recently?

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Sadly no now.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
So I've gone through every single document and them SILF
cataloging everyone like in enough spreadsheet and keywords and what
they're about and everything, but there is no information about
any kind of connection who he was targeting. Nothing, but
I will say there is after the murders happened, there

(22:54):
were calls to the Moscow Police Department about creepers that
had been in the area. And it appears that one
of the creepers Kaylee actually talked about. Yeah, and it
was about a month or so before the murders, and
you know, in Kaylee's way, you know, she would often

(23:14):
make light of things and kind of joke about, you know,
really really important things to kind of alleviate tension and whatnot.
And I can completely relate to that. And she had
said that there were she saw a man in the
tree line area, and if you know anything about the property,
that is the area that Brian Coberger had parked that night,

(23:34):
and so she had saw somebody back there kind of
creeping around and a lot of people are speculating that
it was Hymn Scope and and everything out prior prior
to the murders. Additionally, the documents don't give us any
indication about a connection. There's no social media following, there's
no social media messages. There's nothing connecting Brian Coberger to
these murders or to these girls, I should say.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
And that's been widely debated. So over the years, we've
all talked about this frankly to nauseum. Right, So the
indicators were always that, you know, Madison Mogan worked with
Xana Kernodle at this vegan restaurant in town, and we
know that Brian Coburger was a vegan, and this would
have been someplace that maybe he would have casually stopped

(24:16):
by or seen them from a distance. There were also
really early reports that maybe one of them had or
maybe he reached out to one of them on social
media and then kind of got shut down. Chances are
they were all very sweet and lovely by all accounts,
so maybe like they were like things but no things,
or like let him down easy or politely. And remember

(24:36):
all reports kind of point to the fact that he
really didn't like women and had a hard time sort
of interacting with women. So the fact that there was
no connection and that had been a misreported upon for
a really long time, I think.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
That makes it even scarier.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
He's just picking somebody that he either could never have
scarier or is just you know, identifying from afar. So
you know, where do we put that?

Speaker 6 (25:01):
That's the thing, But that's the thing that you ever
going to know. And I think like you have to
come to terms with the fact if you're the families
of the victims, that you're never going to know. And
that's something that I worry about.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yeah, well keep worrying, because we're going to keep talking
about it. Stay right here at True Crime Tonight, where
we're talking true crime all the time. Up next, we're
going to continue this conversation. We're going to keep it
moving and give us a call at eighty to eight
thirty one Crime.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Stay tuned, listen.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Sallyan is one of those people who, like us, talks
about this all day and in the spirit of us
having a.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Propper coffee clutch, if you will.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Certainly at a time where there's so much information in
the press about this coburger case, for example, she is
jumping in and joining the conversation.

Speaker 6 (25:53):
So I'm obsessed. I literally can't stop thinking about him
in so many ways, and it makes me so mad
because I know that's what he wants. He wants us
all thinking about him and talking about him. And I
think the families did such a good job of shutting
that down and just making sure like we're done with you,
it's over now go rot kind of a thing. But

(26:13):
the rest of us, on the other hand, we're still
giving it live.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
We need to take we need.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
To take heed from the families, right, we need to
a lock step in them.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
Yeah, and even the judge as well. So yesterday was
the sentencing hearing as well as the unbelievably impactful victims
impact statements. And this is regarding the Idaho College murder
case and the now convicted murderer Brian Coberger, who we
will try to refer to as BKA out of respect.

(26:44):
Even the judge said, you're fifteen minutes of fame should
be up. But more details are coming out. So a
lot of stuff that would have come out if there
were a trial, which now there's not because BK pled
out to take the death penalty. He off the table
for himself and pled guilty to four counts of murder

(27:06):
for fatally stabbing Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogan, Xanakernodle, and Ethan Schapin.
This happened in their off campus house back in November
of twenty twenty two.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Horribly brutal. Well.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
Just now documents are beginning to be released. More than
three hundred documents have come out and this is by
the Moscow Police Department. There are grizzly details about the murders.
These are all police reports and the exhaustive investigation that
led to BK's being arrested.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
We're going to go into real detail on Sunday.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
We're going to have our forensic expert, jose of Scott
Morgan with us, So we're going to take a bit
of time to systematically and methodically go through before we report.
But there are some broad strokes that I know we
want to talk about. And Sally Anne, I think you
you had a question.

Speaker 6 (27:58):
Oh God, I don't, but I will ask for right now.
My question is who gags the bills? Is that what
you're saying?

Speaker 10 (28:03):
Yeah, like pay fu to check on this.

Speaker 6 (28:05):
It doesn't even make sense to me. And he's waited
how many years to do this, just burning through the
state and the city's money. In the meantime, these families,
in order to keep their child's dignity, memory and support,
have given up so much of their jobs and whatever
and their life to pay for it and to represent
themselves as it bury their children for God's sake, and

(28:28):
they've had to put that bill and then who's paying
for this? Yahoo?

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Well, part of his sentencing is that such an each
each murderer had a fine and and on top of
that there's restitution in some and that goes to the family. However,
he doesn't have any money, right.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
He doesn't have any money. Fifty dollars per person? Right?
Is that rest It was like forty with the burglary
charge and what seems like.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
It? Of course it doesn't, but it was actually offensive.
And who has to pay that?

Speaker 3 (28:59):
His parents who also.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
Been that law allows. I mean, the judge can only
do so much. You know, he can't bend the law. Right,
that's the law.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
You know, they can change the law. Of course it doesn't. Yeah,
of course it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
But Brian Koberger, I'm sure he's going to be approached
by a lot of different kind of agents and producers
and all kinds of people, and all that money will
go to the family.

Speaker 6 (29:25):
M Yeah, right, you hope he does it. I mean,
we're all, you know, nutty about it, and we'll all
be tuning in. But at the end, like if it does,
get the money to the families or whatever, it does,
and he spends his life just earning people out that's fine.
It's not going to bring their children back, but they've
lost so much trying to support I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Well, Steve Gonsalves, he's the father of Kaylee Gunsolves, and
he is going one of his goals as his family's
you know, charging document, let's say of their goal is
to get like say, you know, like women are kind
of like loving on him a little bit. If any
it's gross, but it's so gross if any women put

(30:09):
money on his books so that he can go to
the commissary and by like top ramen and burritos, that
money will.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Get confiscated and go to them. And I hope they
get it done. Court go ahead, because this is your
favorite topic. Well, I was gonna ask first it was
that a law?

Speaker 4 (30:24):
What is No, they're working there were he had he
was doing an interview months ago and he said, they're
they're working on a bill to propose to the Idaho legislature.
Because that is just it's not just Brian Coberger, it
would be any murder of murderer that.

Speaker 11 (30:40):
Yeah, there are people called bride brides. The people who
are Brian Brian Coburger, BK super fans, women that are
throwing themselves at him and writing him behind bars, giving
him attention, sending their hard earned money to him in
hopes of helping him in some demented way. So that's
what they're talking about, putting a complete stop, to which

(31:03):
I completely agree.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (31:05):
It's really it's been a defined and we we've spoken
with this. Stephanie and I have spoken with mental health
experts on abristophilia, which is a diagnosed condition of very
very largely women, almost exclusively women, who developed these romantic
relationships with incarcerated men.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
And it's real and you see it every case, you
see it in every Listen.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
B K is not special. BK is not special, right,
I think.

Speaker 6 (31:37):
But it's been from the end of time. I mean,
you have a guy, was his name, Jeremy He wound
up getting the modeling contract Jeremy me. Yeah, And then
that was recent And what about Lacy was it Scott Peters?

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Scott Peterson?

Speaker 6 (31:50):
He was like, you know, he was like you would
have thought he was Brad Pittsford, I know, And it
was like, wait a minute, what's going on.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Wilson behind bars?

Speaker 2 (31:58):
You know, you know, Luigi behind bars, you know, kill
somebody in broad daylight or in the early evening hours.
You know, straight up it's on camera, and you know
there's like hot boy lookalike contests throughout the country.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
I mean, I get it, but it's you know.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
Wade Wilson strangled to women to death. He's on death row,
and there are YouTube channels that are dedicated just to
covering all the phone calls that he gets from different women.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
What yeah, oh yeah, why do I feel compelled to
let I mean, listen, I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I don't judge literally on my computer for the first time.

Speaker 6 (32:37):
I know, I'm like, I don't have a lot of
self esteem, but like, god.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Well listen, we know we got some scoop on this
because Courtney and I really went down the rabbit hole
on this for like, probably for too long at some point,
and it did seem like these like men behind bars.
By the way, these are like not unattractive loser women
in some cases either they are they have functioning jobs.
Some of them are the attorneys attorneys And by the way,

(33:02):
it's not just women, but it's mostly women.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
I got a lot of hate mail about Luca from
men that we're into him. Yes, Luca from don't have Cats.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah, I got a lot of hate mail from men
who were in love with Luca.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
So what do we make of that?

Speaker 2 (33:18):
We always were told, you know, from from the therapists
that we spoke to that either you know, listen, it's
a trauma response in many cases, because you know there's
something very safe about that dynamic when your husband or
partner is certainly not coming home with you anytime soon,
and or it's a control thing because you know he's
not going to step out on you, or you know,
beat you senseless because he's trapped in a cage.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Or what do you think? I don't know, I don't know.
Can't you listen?

Speaker 5 (33:44):
If you if you have a thought on Hypristophelia, you
let us know what you think.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
We're at eight at eight three one Crime.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
Courtney Armstrong here with Body Move and Stephanie Leidecker and
we are so thrilled and happy to have Mega TV
producer and true crime official Sally and Salsano and we
are going to go to a talk back.

Speaker 7 (34:06):
Well, ladies, this is Kim and my question about the
Brian Cobooker cave is do we one percent know that
they do not have the knife? Because we had a
gaggle on them for so long.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yes, we do know they do not have the knife.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
They've shot, they were they were asked directly at the
press conference afterward, and no, they do not have the knife.
And there has been no mention of the knife recovery
in the police documents that have been released thus far.
But they specifically said they didn't have the knife and
they didn't have any of the clothing that he was
wearing the knight. So, I mean, unless they're lying to us,

(34:50):
but I can't imagine. But yeah, that's they've told us
straight up that they don't have it.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
I don't know. Why do I feel like he brought
it home with it? Like I don't, No, I mean
I know it's nothing.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
You're onto somebody, No, you're onto something because on the
murders happened on November thirteenth. Okay, on November fifteenth, he
searched on Amazon for a sheath. Okay, Now, if he
was searching for just a sheath, why if he didn't

(35:23):
have a knife to put into it?

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Right? Yeah, go there.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Okay, back to this original game of like choose your
own adventure happy endings that we were talking about last time.
In the last segment, what if he knew what he
did with the knife which was thrown in a body
of water or bury it certainly possible, and knew that
at least it was never going to be found. He
knew where it was, and maybe he was hunting for
this new sheath because he was going to somehow get

(35:50):
it back.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
In one of the documents that has been released by
the Moscow Police Department, there's all these tips that came in,
and one of the tips is that there was a
woman on the thirteenth who saw a man who she
says was Brian Cooberger down by the river that day
mm hmm. And she looked right at him, and he
looked right at her, and then he kind of looked

(36:13):
down and she was driving away. But she when Brian
Coberg got arrested six weeks later, she was like, that
was the guy I saw down at the river in
Clarksville where that Albertson's.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Is, didn't Prosecutor Built Thompson kind of maybe indicate that
he thought, body, can you refresh the details?

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (36:35):
He said that when during the plea hearing, right and
Bill Thompson was giving a recount of what happened that
night into the morning. He had mentioned and again this
is the probable cause. Avidavid too, he had mentioned that
Brian Coberger drove south down through Clarksville, Washington and then
back up to Pullman and that there is a large

(36:58):
body of water down there. He didn't say that that
that's where the knife is or anything like that, but
he definitely implied that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
With he drove past a large party of water.

Speaker 5 (37:07):
But bottom line, thank you for the talkback, and no,
they do not have the knife as far as knowledge.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Is available, Sally, we know you have an opinion about
all of this.

Speaker 6 (37:17):
I can't I can't take it. I'm like busting at
the scenes. I Am both want to stop talking about
Brian Coburger and I'm afraid to go sleep at night
that I'm going to lose time talking about Brian Colberger.
Like I'm really torn as a human. But the answers
that I have are like I would I would pay,
Like I just want to do the interview right, like
you just want to ask all the questions, and I

(37:39):
mean just charge per question, like let America just ask
the questions. What every single person's question is answered? Stop
And every time he answers the question pay the family,
Like just let all of us that just everybody wants
to know something different and let us all have a shot.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
It's actually really bad call. Actually I see a pay
per view special in the future. Yeah, we actually have
a talk back right now.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Hi, true crime tonight.

Speaker 12 (38:03):
I adore all three of you, and I've been really
enjoying listening to you talk about b KA and everything
with that case. And I just want to say, do
not underscore what you are saying and what you are
feeling with apologies. We do not need to hear that
you're sorry for feeling your strong emotions. You are correct,

(38:26):
and you are valid.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
I need so nice. Now we're going to start crying again.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
We all were like beating ourselves up in the commercials
of like, Hi.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
We got to really pull it together. I really needed
to hear that.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah, we were even talking about it this morning, like
it was sort of like hush, it's not bad of it,
Like it's not you know, but you can only imagine
how the families must be feeling.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
Right, and here we are like boohooing. But look at
the families, how strong they were in court yesterday. And
here we are boohooing, like it was just we just
felt silly, you know.

Speaker 6 (38:58):
And well, I feel like everyone been grieving alongside with them,
and I don't think like a human sitting on their
couch listening to those families and putting themselves in their shoes.
I think there were tears everywhere yesterday. I do it
was a little bit of a sigh of relief too, right,
like one more loon off the street. But also it's

(39:19):
kind of like put this to bed, like my heart
broke for those families, like standing there, I'm like, oh
my god, think about how many nights in a weird
hotel dealing with the grief, and it was just like
everything about the process, like putting yourself in those shoes.
It's terrible.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
Yes, And the friends of the victims had to leave
Sorority Row because their bedrooms looked over the house, you know,
for months and months and months. They had to gold
stay in hotels and strange people's apartments, and I mean
just everybody's life has been shattered. B K is a
family annihilator, and he is the Boogeyman, and he is

(39:57):
going to be in prison for the rest of his life,
God willing, so what's the takeaway, because I think there's
two big things that I took away from just working
on this case with you guys, to nauseum and really
just sort of getting a little probably too close to
certain things.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
It has been social media, right, Like, this is not
a soapbox about social media. I am on it and
all the things, and you know, enjoy it as much
as everybody, but windows, license plates, home addresses while you're
on vacation, not posting, you know, things that are just
sort of like how to keep yourself safe in the world.
This just became kind of the example of like we

(40:32):
don't gone are the days that we can show the
fun party in our house that we're having with friends
in the backyard, because that also might be a blueprint
in some ways.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
If there's a weirdo out there.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Lurking in the woods with no connection, just fixating on
some stranger he knows or sees, that's really tough, you know,
and it kind of I think it makes us all
a little mad because we want to be able to
open our windows at the air in and guys like
this make it impossible.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Now, yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
So we are talking all things Brian Coburger, the recent
dump of all these files and investigative details that we
really haven't had until yesterday. If you haven't been playing along, BK,
this monster has now been sentenced and sent away to
prison for life four terms, and we'll never see the
light of day except for maybe one hour or so

(41:37):
in this very lousy prison that he'll hopefully be very
alone in.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
But listen, one of the only.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Positive things is that we're hearing some of the pieces
of evidence, and maybe we didn't know before because obviously
we would.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Have heard that at the trial.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
So we have talkback because we want to hear from you.
Let's go to our first one.

Speaker 12 (41:56):
Looking back at history, you can see laws and scholarships
started in the names of those whose lives have been taken.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
What can the family members.

Speaker 8 (42:07):
Of the Idaho massacre, beautiful children? What could they do
to try to make the world a better place with
the horrible circumstances that they've found themselves in great.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Such a good question, it's a beautiful question, and many
of the families do, in fact have foundations in their
children's the victims' names, And just to say them one
more time, Xana kernodle Ethan Shapin, Kaylee Gonsalvez, and Madison
Mogan and that is already happening in these families are

(42:44):
putting their unbelievable, unimaginable grief already into good into the world.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, like we should put those again. I think they
already are, but just to do a double check. Also
on our website, you could go to the True Crime
Tonight Show website or even on the Kate Studios social
media pages and we'll post those theres as well. We don't,
you know, control it, but we're making donations ourselves. So
is that something that you want to participate in?

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah? Like, how do you how do.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
You make something slightly better out of something so hideous?

Speaker 6 (43:16):
I think the well, think about like off topic, but
think about Amber Alert, right, like, think about the horrible
thing that happened to that young girl and that mother
not only started something in her name, but almost started
a movement. And all of us now as we're driving,
you're getting that you know, you that sound when it
comes and when you walk, you know you hear that sound.

(43:37):
It's really something else, Like you look down at your
phone and you can participate and it's funny like I
always knew what it was, and I always knew the story.
And I recently watched the doc on Peacock about Amber Alert,
and like, in watching that, it was amazing because you
truly saw, like the story that I think no one
really knew about this family and how you can capture someone.

(44:00):
And I will tell you after watching that, I always
paid attention, but now I feel like it's actually my
duty as a person when you get it, like you
are negligent if you don't drop what you're doing, look
on the road and try and help. You don't know,
imagine if that was your loved one, your family member.
You look. So it's like, I'm sure they need a second.

(44:21):
But right now I think while America is on their
side and it's top of mind until the next crazy
thing happens. I hope this family really does, you know,
get some money just to but the time they are
clear had it enough to think about what they want
to do. They have enough money to really change the
world in their children's name. So it's not all just

(44:43):
for nothing. You know, they can try and focus that
negative energy towards something.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Because look, even in that case, they do have these
foundations and they were really big thinkers, All four of
these victims were like heading to really big lives. It's
funny you mentioned that about d Amber alert. You're one
hundred percent right in that their success rate. I haven't
seen the Peacock doc yet, but I will. I've actually
been to Sacramento where they actually pushed the button to
actually signal the alert, and it's really an interesting experience

(45:13):
in the criteria and sort of what goes into actually
issuing the alert, and it's soaptisticated stuff and it has
a crazy success rate.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
The stories are pretty endless.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Like we were told a story about, you know, suddenly
a beep beep comes on the television and it was
like a white van and sure enough, this man just
happened to be watching the TV. White van goes by
in it little boys tied up and it was because
of this, you know, one thing that came out of
something so so tragic.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
It is, but it was truly a movement and like
that little you know, and that was done by a mom,
a mom that was scarred and her heart was ripped
out of her chest. She was able to overcome and
now help other people because you're like, what can I do?
How can I prevent this? And you know what, she's
found a way. And that's what I would say. There's
that moms strength and that parent, that parent, that family

(46:06):
lust that you get in there and the next thing
you know you can save, you know more lies your
own expense.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Unfortunately, from my understanding, Ethan's family, the Chapin's Ethan Smile,
they have already sent ten kids to college. Like it's already, Wow,
it's already happening. The Amazon documentary had that is that
amazing or what was its incredible?

Speaker 3 (46:28):
You know?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
And also you know, listen, it's not the time to
feel like you have to suddenly be managing stuff because
it's not easy. And you know, if I'm not mistaken,
Even the Gonzalvez family that's Kaylee victim, Klee Gonzalveez's father,
they had to go fund me because many of them
had to travel for this trial, right, so they were
taking off work and with this impending August trial, so

(46:50):
they had all started gofundmes.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
And they sent all the money back. You know how
much work that takes to do?

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, yeah, while while fighting for answers in the deaths
of those who love the most.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
It's really it's really a testament to humanity.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
I guess that's what this whole thing has been, just
this horrible, horrible case. But really, you know, you look
at the victim statements, the families. Obviously we talked about
this yesterday. It's a slice into humanity that is maybe
what we all need to see, because those victims, families
and the survivors of this crime are are really the.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Next level of grace. Grace.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Your listenings True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy Movin
and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie Leidecker, and we're
joined by TV producer Sally and Salsano. If you'd like
to give us a call, please call one eight eight
eight thirty one crime or use the iHeart app and
leave us a talk back, and we have one right now.

Speaker 13 (47:52):
I just want to say that when I was watching
the sentencing today, if you look when Maddy's stepdad is
talking about how she is, that is the only time
that Buqua like looks engaged, and he looks almost interested.
He almost nods like in listener's sympathy for her stepdad's speech,

(48:13):
and like he catches himself. If you watch really closely,
that that's just the only time that he doesn't look
so detached, and I just think that he was obsessed
with Maddie.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
That's a really good observation.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
And I think there was another moment when Olivia Gounsovus
was speaking that he looked uncomfortable and when Zanna's sister
was speaking, And I think it's because Xana's sister looks
so much like Xanna Jasmine Pronodle. But it's from for
our talkbacks point, She's correct, he does not. And I

(48:49):
absolutely noticed that, but I didn't know why he was nodding,
But I didn't think, like, oh, maybe it's because he
really thought Maddie was, you know, everything the apple of
the eye, you know, like it's such a good point.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I got to tell you.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
My girlfriend Christine today had a similar thought. She also
noted that moment to me, and her take on it
was a little different, but definitely she said, like that
was the most noticeable reaction from him, like physical reaction
is that like she felt like he was almost like
looking to murder them, as like he was almost like

(49:26):
sizing up a little bit, Like it almost seemed like
there was like this I'm in for a kill again
and it almost had like a gleefulness to it. I mean, again,
these are micro expressions, but what a scary thought.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Well, the gleeful mark.

Speaker 6 (49:40):
That's how I took it. Was it with the gleefulness,
And I thought, like, is he reacting to that because
he feels like I got a really good one, you
know what I mean? Like it made it broke my
heart because I didn't think he was like, Oh, I
feel so bad for this dad, because I don't know
that he's capable of feeling that, like, you know. I

(50:00):
think that the way that they handled it was everyone
was just like, this is the pain you're going to
be inflicted on in there, rather than you hurt me,
because I think that you hurt me is what he
wants and that beats his soul. And I think they
all got together and like did stuff that was going
to hurt him or put him in fear, which is
if I were them, what I would want, right imagine

(50:22):
this year that they're family members underwent exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
It's unimaginable, frankly unimaginable, I mean, and that's also the
takeaway from some of the things that we've now learned.
And again we want to hear from you eight eight
eighth three one crime is just the level of gruesomeness.
And again Joseph Scott Morgan will come on Sunday and
sort of unpack really the specifics of these forensics. But
fifty stab wounds for x Aner Kernodle, Yes, body, There's one.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
Thing in the documents I wanted to bring up before
we move on to another.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Subject, if we ever do.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
I don't know that we're going to, but if we
ever do, I want to bring this up before we
move on. Moments leading up to the nine one one cls.
So that's kind of the headline, right. So at four
in the morning, Bethany this one of the surviving roommates.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Again.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
She was on the bottom floor. She never saw him,
she never heard him or anything like that, but she
mentioned that she was outside with Madison. They had taken
Murphy out to go to the bathroom and it was
really cold, so she came back in. She got some
potato chips. I mean, I'm thinking, like, this is me,
this is like my thing that I like to do.

(51:28):
She got some potato chips. She went to her room,
she put on a movie and she fell asleep. Okay,
and she says she was woken up about four o'clock
in the morning, anywhere from four to four twenty. She
wasn't exactly sure. But guess what she wakes up to.
Now she's on the bottom floor. Remember, she wakes up
to what she thinks is a firecracker going off, and

(51:51):
she sees sparks under her door.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (51:54):
What do you make of that? What did you think
it was? I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Well, first I thought it was four o'clock in the
morning and it was Xanna getting the door dash right.
But then I'm like, a firecracker is what? I have
no idea.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
I always thought it was maybe like a tire popping
outdoors or something, you know, back to the original theory too.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
I've always been obsessed.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
And again this like choose your own adventure ending, you
know of just the idea of him just standing in
a street light across the street, you know, a courtney.
We made the podcast, and you know, that was sort
of the imagery we always sort of pictured in our head,
but it was baseless.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
It wasn't based on anything.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
But I think that's the scary movie on this right,
It's the It's Halloween, right, it's everybody's boogeyman? Is this
random guy? And you know, again, like what do we
do to take away from this?

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Well, I mean I can talk about this for thirty
seven years. He is the boogeyman, and everyone wants to
make this like there has to be a reason, There
has to be a reason. No, sometimes there just isn't,
and we are we have to protect ourselves because boogeymen exist,
and he's one boogey men exist. I'm sorry they do.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Hey, yeah, yeah, VK. I know we're supposed to call
him K, but if you're just joining us, that could
be confusing. So I'm not sure what the bell. Can
we call him monster instead and keep it real simple.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Or we can just use his we can just use
his inmate number. It's like one six two three, one
four or something.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Oh, it's very ordinary because he's nothing now right, he
is literally nothing.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
And I've been holding back this rant. Go for it
while you're sitting back. What is what is the whole
back for?

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Okay, we've been sitting here, and you know, I've been
sitting here for two and a half years with my
friends and now you guys, and like trying to figure
out like the meaning like why did this happen? And
you know, it's we have to make sense of this
because we feel unsafe if it doesn't make sense, right
I do, yes, Like because this dork, this frickin' dork

(53:54):
went into that house and took four young people who
are fit capable, you know what I mean, like us
nerd This freakin' nobody just walks in and kills them, right,
And if he can do that to them, am I
in danger?

Speaker 6 (54:11):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (54:11):
So we have to like organize these thoughts and like
cartmentalize things and like none of it makes sense and
it's not going to because you know what, we're not
the crazy ones. He's the nut job, not us.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
It's never going to make sense.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
It's not going to make sense.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
However, we can make sure that we're looking out for
each other and by the way, trusting our guts. Like
that's another thing that I think is a takeaway having
been a little far down the.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
Rabbit hole on this one.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
You know, several times now we're seeing that in some
of this evidentiary documents that we're seeing with evidence in
it that you know, there were reports or even Kayleie
herself like she had a bad feeling. She had a
spiky sense enough so that she repeated it two times. Right,
she would have to wherewithal and enough of us sixth
sense that she said to two separate people and two

(54:55):
separate occasions. Something feels off, and it is just so
easy for each of us. We've all done it, God
knows I have. We all have in small ways, big ways.
Yet we just kind of blow it off. We don't
want to be dramatic. We just don't want to much
a thing.

Speaker 6 (55:09):
You know, God forbid you accuse somebody of something, then
you could be in trouble. So it is a very
it's a funky line to be like trying to navigate
it is really tough because you do get that feeling sometimes, right.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
And I live alone, Like I'm terrified all the time,
and I'm like, okay, get it together, body Like I'm armed,
I'm capable of defending myself. But then I'm like, well, dude,
Ethan was like six to two.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Yeah, even eat, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Like, of course, but some basic things, if you have
that spidey sense, you just have to make sure that
you're all closing the window, right, Like we have to
look behind our shoulders.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
It sucks. It stinks.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
And anybody who has any other tips. You know one
thing I've just learned from the crime craft. If you
can avoid ever getting put in the.

Speaker 4 (55:56):
Crid, your house on Google Maps, hide your hud your
house maps, make sure that your layouts not on Zillo
and Trulia, and how do you do that?

Speaker 3 (56:03):
How do you do that?

Speaker 4 (56:04):
Go to Zilo and you can go to the privacy policy,
read about it and hit the buttons, and you know,
make sure all your stuff's unlisted, go to been verified,
remove all your information from all those websites, and God forbid,
stop posting public pictures to Facebook. Make you sure your
profile pasure is locked down. And if you don't know
how to do that, then get.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Kids like even answer you via email, just hit upon.
Our socials will navigate it together, because look, we aren't
going to change the fact that there are wackos in
the wild, just we can't. We can look out for
each other and for anybody who's been in a scenario
that's you know, being victimized or in a violent situation

(56:46):
where really our hearts are with you. I think it's
a collective, like, oh, we're all mad about it, right,
And I.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
Want to make sure that people understand I'm not blaming them.
I just want everybody to listen, to be so careful,
Like stop posting your on social media, stop posting how
beautiful your home is.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Like just stop, nobody hard because it's fun to look
at people's lot and I like to see it.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
My favorite thing in the world is back to school pictures.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
I love them.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
I know all my friends and their kids, hoween I
love it so much.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
But you just gotta stop.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Anybody from high school, they're like bought a new house
or their first house, and you're like, that's amazing, love
the house. And now it's like you don't realize the
house has a number on the front door, and you
know some weirdo on social media names on the mail office.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, listen, in a.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Very small way, like my little like nerdy social media.
There's like an Italian woman that like cooks. I don't
even cook. God knows you guys will all enjoy that.
But I love this woman and I don't know her,
you know, but she like speaks to me and I
feel like if I bumped into her on the street,
we would hug.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
I'm never going to bump into that she lives in
like sicily, but like that's like this connection that sometimes
the wrong brain could get on seeing your adorable little
baby at the beach. Right, So what's the line and
how do you not be like over correct I.

Speaker 6 (58:03):
Think I think you're overcorrecting. I think the line is.
We just all have to decide if you're going to
admit where the line is or not. But I think
it is look over your shoulder. I do think it's
like for allfential right now. And I think to your point,
you know, we are basically opening up our lives by posting,

(58:23):
by doing whatever, like by keeping up with the Joneses.
You should be just the people on your block. But
now you're coming competing with everyone in the world, and
everyone's pushing it further and further.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
Yeah, and then you feel like left out if you're
not right, Like anyway, can we talk about the scratch marks?

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Oh my goodness, the scratch marks?

Speaker 4 (58:42):
Okay, I didn't mean to go off on I just
it's so frustrating because I want to know the answers too,
and we're just not getting them.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
So anyway, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
Time of the killings, his friends told detectives, and Yogi
has something to say about this.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Yeah, go ahead, bring a Yogi.

Speaker 5 (58:57):
We hear you.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Yogi, shout out to Yogi.

Speaker 6 (58:59):
Well.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
One of Coburger's friends who is a WSU student. His
name was redacted in the documents. He told detectives that
he noticed scratch marks on Coburger's body on his face
on two separate occasions in October and November. The friend
said that one injury was large enough on it left
a mark on Cobroger's face, which the friend described This

(59:22):
is how he described it as looking like scratches from fingernails.
The friend added that he also saw wounds on Coburger's
knuckles on two separate occasions. When the friend asked Bka
about the Marx, Bka replied that he was in a
car accident.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
So here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
If there were finger marks or finger scratches on Brian
Coburger's face, then I would assume there would be skin
under Zanna Matty Cayley's nails, right, And they did find
a mixture under the nails, but it wasn't enough. But
he was wearing like a bolla kava, right, So I

(01:00:03):
want to ask I'm going to put a pin in
this for Sunday because Sunday on the show, Joseph Scott
Morgan forensic expert who is going to be joining us,
and I want to ask him if Brian Coberger was
wearing a bolla kava or a ski mask, let's say,
and one of the girls had kind of like nails
like mine, how they're kind of like, you know, little
raised little claws. Would that have scratched his face without

(01:00:29):
getting his DNA under their skin.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
I'm very interested because I had the same exact question,
So I'm curious to see what Joseph does think. But honestly,
that certainly can happen. I've scratched actually literally just the
other day wearing a shirt step by whatever. I scraped
up against a nail and my skin was scratched and broken. Yeah,

(01:00:53):
and my shirt was not so really anyway, we'll see. Yeah, So,
I mean it's certainly a thing that happened.

Speaker 6 (01:01:00):
I think about the four that thirls were young. Oh sure,
you mean, it would make sense that they will be
able to make a mark even through some fabric.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
Interesting, Well, I'm going to ask Joseph and see what
he has to say about so tune in for that way.
It's going to be a we're going to be diving
into a lot. There's a lot of graphic by the
way turner warning, there's a lot of graphic detail that
will probably loss over a little bit, you know, for
the airwaves.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
But there is some.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Details that we do want to speak to Joseph about
because this is what he is an expert in. He
is a death investigator, he is the guy. So I
want to ask him a lot of questions about this autopsy.
And listen, I have a question too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Please if you want to join this conversation eight eight
eight to three to one crime, please do. But the
shower curtain, this has been sort of that burning thing.
So just for the catch up, there was a photograph
and also mention of this in the what was it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Which report?

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
Was it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Badia?

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Was the initial police report that when they had photographs
of Brian Koberger's BK's apartment when the sorties kind of
searched it for the first time. One thing that was
noted is that he didn't have a shower curtain in
his bathroom. And again small detail. For whatever reason that
one has gotten in my head. We've talked about it

(01:02:18):
so much I can't even really tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
And why is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Because it kind of conjures up the idea that maybe
he had the fore right, forthright thought to take down
his shower curtain and have that in his car. So
when he came out of this house after murdering four people,
knowing he would be covered in blood because he did
it with a k bar, a Rambo knife, quite literally,

(01:02:41):
that he would get in his car and wrap himself
in his shower curtain. And that just seems so basic
and twisted and like stright out of a very dexter vibes. Right,
this guy was studying criminology, he's a PhD student. And
then very recently, when we had those dateline leaks, we
also saw a very haunting photograph of him, of him

(01:03:04):
really hours after the said murders, and he's like wearing
the hoodie that allegedly looks like Bundy, and we see
him in this bathroom again and the shower is behind him,
but you see a little bit of curtain. And that
has triggered me because I was like, oh, I guess,
I guess I was wrong about that, or we were
wrong about that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
I definitely was like obsessed with the shower.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Curtain theory and until body kind of cracked the case
for me as well.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
So, Boddy, what was your theory on this?

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Well, the photo that Stephanie's talking about is in the
court documents and it's Brian Coberger and he's wearing he's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Doing a thumbs up. It's a thumbs up photo.

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
So if you know the photos, it's in the documents
he's doing the thumbs up and behind him and it
does look like an empty shower butt. If you look
all the way over, you can see like tiny sliver
and it looks like a shower liner, and you can
even see the folds in it, which to me, you
know how when you get like a new shower liner

(01:04:00):
and it's like in a plastic wrap and you and
it's got the squares the falls, it's almost like a
brand new liner. So that the idea is that you
were correct stuff that maybe he lined his trunk with it,
came out through it and that wrapped it up and buried,
you know, everything in the shower liner or shower curtain.

(01:04:21):
The thing I can't really kind of let go and
I'm going to put you down another rabbit hole, spin
you get ready. Yes, if he did that, If he
did that and got a new shower liner that morning,
right and put it up before he took the thumbs.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Up picture, Where did it go for six weeks?

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
Because he wasn't arrested for six weeks when they did
the search warrant and they had no shower curtain.

Speaker 5 (01:04:44):
There are a lot more, and we're going to continue
show with questions after the break. And one thing I
would like to report on that has come out in
the documents are details about BKA his sole conversation with authorities,
and we'll be covering that and much more. Give us
a call eight at eighty three to one Crime. We
are talking true crime all the time on True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
And we've been talking a lot about these recent developments
in the BK Brian Coburger filings that we've now seen
in the paperwork that's now come out from law enforcement
with evidence and details that we really are just scouring over.
Body has a full Excel sheet that she'll get through
and Sunday we'll do a full unpack. But just having

(01:05:37):
you guys kind of weigh in has been really meaningful
because look, and we're all trying to make sense of it.
We're all trying to what's the right thing to do
post this, and you know, how do we look out
for each other? I guess so join us eight eight
eight three one crime, Sally. You always have an opinion
on everything, which is the greatest, So that's number one,
and number two there's cases that are either long island

(01:05:58):
based or even you know, adjacent to sometimes unscripted.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
TV shows we've all talked about.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
So I'm really hoping that you'll just always come back
and we can sort of unpack that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
But before we even go there, we have a talk back.
Let's go to that.

Speaker 10 (01:06:12):
Hi, this is Violet from Canada about Brian Coberger and
his drug addiction. I know he was a heroin addict,
and also there are things saying that he was depressed.
I also know that a lot of the time with
drug addiction, people are lacking dopamine. So I wonder what
your guys' opinion is because I just thought of this today.

(01:06:34):
Maybe the kicking the drug addiction but then focusing on
planning a murder who was giving him a dope meine relief,
or maybe he was a drug addict in order to
try to cope with the fact that he knew he
was the psychopath and had urges to murder people.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
That is the best question I can It's so interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
So there's very little we know, but here is part
of it, and this is part of what has been
released in the multiple documents. Bka had one conversation with
authorities and this was after he was initially arrested back
in his home in Pennsylvania twenty twenty two. So something

(01:07:20):
he revealed about himself is narcissism. Doesn't begin to cover
where this is going to end, but very briefly. So
he is arrested and it was a large presence and
a swat team that came to his house, and so
Brian Colberger said, Oh my goodness, I'm so worried about
my parents and my dog.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
The swat team was just at the house.

Speaker 5 (01:07:42):
So that made me a little sick since he had
obviously caused that to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
But I think you will get more sick with me.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
Officers asked if he knew what happened in November, and
all Bka replied was of course and said it was
because he received an alert. And then when they asked,
they explained the homicides and why he was there. He replied,
I need a lawyer. So fine, then you need to
be quiet. But here is I think, maybe the greatest

(01:08:11):
insight into this disgusting mind. So after he said no,
I'm going to need a lawyer, he then asked the detectives, Hey,
do you have any questions for me? Since I'm kind
of a PhD student and you know I have a
lot of aspirations to become a professor.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Can you imagine such a smarty pants? Well listen, and
I think yes, I can imagine because this guy was
what a megalomaniac. Courtney's favorite word meglomaniac. I just never
can say it with a straight face, but it's true.
And also yes, he had a heroin addiction, and that
only was followed by COVID where there was more isolation.
So it is sort of an interesting storm of did

(01:08:50):
he have any disorders or something going on with him
as a child?

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Who knows that hasn't been reported yet.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
There was obviously this autism claim, and then additionally having
a hair addiction.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
What does that do to your brain?

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
We interviewed a scientist once that kind of discussed a
little bit about the post heroin addiction struggle. Not that
that has anything to do or gives like permission for
him to become a killer, But there is something to
the isolation of this particular person and COVID, you know,
was there a factor in that, Like he was like

(01:09:22):
literally living in the basement of his parents' house and
had no friends.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
We've heard that very clearly. And then he became a.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Psycho exercise nut after kicking drugs, which by the way,
is not easy to do.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
That's a very hard drug to kick, and he did it.
He really pulled it off.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
We interviewed somebody that also went to rehab with him
and said he was an addiction.

Speaker 6 (01:09:44):
Though the exercise addiction and now the watching and the
cleanliness addiction.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
It's a good question.

Speaker 6 (01:09:52):
He's almost like refocused transferring it. But it is just
I mean, who knows, right, Like didn't know as a
part of me that like maybe when the parents speak,
or maybe you know, when he speaks, you know, he'll
speak to that. But for me, I mean, obviously he
probably has no remorse, but for me, that would be
part of the remorse thing, Like maybe there's a chemical

(01:10:14):
reason why this happened. To try and make sense of it,
if you're trying to garner any kind of, you know,
sympathy for yourself. I don't know, but I mean, I
hope none of it's true. I also hope it's true
because then there's a reason. But like all around, it's
just confusing.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Yeah, it is in a perfect store.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Maybe you have a lot of little things that again,
I think that's why we're talking about it. It's important
stuff to unpack and you know, yeah, transferring of some
of these habits is you know, that's very possible in
a very very smart caller, Addie, what do you think.

Speaker 4 (01:10:47):
I'm just I'm reading the headlines that are coming out
right now, and is it okay if I please do so.
Steve Gonsalez is on Banfield right now and he is
saying that Kaylee's teeth were knocked down out with a
rounded object with stripes.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Second, there's a second murder. Well, so that's the other thing.
So that's let's clear that up too.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
So Steve Gonsalves in the family met with the prosecutors,
let's just say, the state before sentencing, and they gave
them some details about Kaylee and what happened that night.
And one of the things that they took from that
meeting is that there was a second weapon used, but
they don't know what that weapon is. When asked about

(01:11:29):
the second weapon at the press conference, the state said, no,
there was only one weapon. So I'm not sure, like
what is going on, And there is no indication in
the documents that I've seen so far that there was
a second weapon use. So I don't know what's happening.
But I don't know why Steve would just make that
up right? Well, why were her teeth knocked in it?
Could it have been the bottom of the well the night.

(01:11:53):
It could have, But that's really dangerous, Like his hand
could slide right up that and cut his hand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
And Kayla was like something in a room that he hit,
you know, like a vase or a hairbrush or you
know what else? Are another tip, ladies, fire extinguishers or
an in men. By the way this goes across the board,
put a fire extinguisher very close by you pull that
up urge. That's a very big defensive way of protecting yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
If you have to, Yeah, for sure, But anyway, that's
just the kind of a breaking wow news on that.

Speaker 5 (01:12:25):
Kayla himselves his sister Olivia, when she was doing her
victim impact statement yesterday. She also had said, what was
the second film that you used? So we'll see if
something is revealed. Listen if you want to join us.
We're at eight to eight, three to one crime. We
are talking about the Idaho college murders, and we enjoined
by Sally and Salsano, who is a lady reality TV.

(01:12:50):
I mean, what's the word of royalty? Yes, I think
that's actually an accurate Yes, this.

Speaker 6 (01:12:58):
Is I mean, talking about this is just so disturbing, right,
Like everyone, sometimes you go to work and you're like, God,
my job is so silly. Right, here's sturdy strangers. Let
him fall in love. I'm trying to stay in that world,
Like I got to tell you it is. Thinking about
this is really tricky, and you know, I just don't
even understand what he said earlier, Stephanie. You know, the

(01:13:19):
way he was holding his knife could be dangerous, and
in my mind, like, let me, this guy's too worried
about danger, you know what I mean, Like he's like hacking.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Up, Like what that's true? No, that's true in my life.

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
I'm like I would him to have a large wound
on his hand if he did that you know right,
or like did he just reach for something and a
fight you know, you know something got grabbed because she
was she was very strong, she was very athletic. Taha,
will you remind me on Sunday to ask Joseph Scott
Morgan forensics expert, who's going to be joining us on Sunday?

(01:13:50):
I cannot, I literally cannot wait for thatwork counting the outs,
what kind of weapon is rounded and would leave us stripe?
And how pathology would know that?

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
Got it? Copy?

Speaker 6 (01:14:05):
I got that about the scratches with the marks on
the face and the shower curtains faced, No, I've noted
and dying to know myself.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
So we will definitely have to look.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
You're the best, You're the best producer, Ta hi, everybody,
it's a producer, Ta hi everybody. And also to Ozzy Osbourne,
we have you know Sam who's Sam keeps us live
and keeps us in line every night we we were
with you because he's in the morning of Ozzy Osbourne
and if you can watch it on you know where
is it? We're kind of TB or Amazon. I don't
know that Osbourne should be playing twenty four hours a day.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
So Sam is giving his Azzie tribute. He's got his
black Saba the shirt on, he's got some beautiful eyeliner.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
On and based nails, nails plas. He looks marvelous. You
look great. I was asking earlier if we could play
some Aussie and they said.

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
No, we got to shut down pretty quick on the
on the tail of Ozzy, And then his name just
flew out of my head, whole Cogan.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
Oh yeah, Hull Cogan. May you rest in peace? Yeah, Sally,
did you ever meet here?

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
One?

Speaker 6 (01:15:10):
It was like shocking to hear. And then we're like
in the office talking about it today and it's like,
as you were talking about it, you're like, oh my,
And I was like one of these kids that went
to the Nasau Coliseum, that's the whole co maniac and
watching in viper Fit. I was such a fan. And
as we were talking about all of that stuff and
then looking back and everyone's like, it's cardiac arrest, and

(01:15:32):
someone of my uncles like, isn't that shocking, I'm like,
I don't think so. Imagine your body being put through
all of that, and you know, I'm sure they might
alleged enhancers at some point and somehow but like, I
don't know, I'm just like, how do these guys do
it that long?

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Think about it? Yeah, they're like slamming there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
But first of all, you saying Nasau Coliseum, we're both
Long Islanders four ninety five. Salien's company is Long Island base.
That's the expressway for shout out a stage of high school.

Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
But that is so true.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Like hull Comania was such a big thing, and then
he had the Family Show and you know, they all
hit hard times and it seemed like, you know, wasn't
he just somewhere very public recently Hulk.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Hogan the Republican National Convention being a crazy on.

Speaker 5 (01:16:17):
Pulling off shirt. That's right right, well from one stage
to the next. But listen, we wanted to give the
biggest thank you to you Sally Ane for joining us
on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
So you say that, Sally, I like it like a
little bit. Yeah, And everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:16:37):
Should be watching her show The Snake on Fox. It's
really compelling and a must watch.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
So social manipulation, right, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
You know, listen, all the talkbacks have been super helpful,
so we're so grateful for them.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
Obviously, this BK thing and all.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
The forensics that we're not getting access to will be
unpacking again on Sunday with Joseph Scott Moore, So make
sure you tune in. If you have any questions prior
to that that you want him to answer, call us
eight eight eight three to one Crime and you can
leave us some voicemail anytime between then and now or
in our socials at True Crime Tonight Show on Facebook,

(01:17:15):
at True Crime Tonight Show on Instagram and TikTok or
at True Crime Tonight's Show on Facebook. And also you
could leave us one of those talkbacks. So you just
download the iHeartRadio app. It's free and in the top
right hand corner there's a little button. You press it
leave us a voicemail and boom, you're also on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
Yeah, And not to be like I don't want to listen,
I'm not trying to be like gross or anything like that,
but we have a great opportunity to speak with Joseph
on Sunday. So if you're looking at these documents, which
by the way, anybody can go do and you want
and you're reading the wound and you're like, what is that?

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
You know, get send us a doll back.

Speaker 4 (01:17:53):
This is like a really great opportunity to get the
from an expert, like he's literally a forensics expert, certified degree,
work field everything right, like the youngest he.

Speaker 5 (01:18:06):
Was the youngest medical examiner in the parish that he
started in. I think I might be butchering his No,
he was a little bit, but is that exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:18:15):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
It's also in our documentary airing on Peacock. Please check
it out.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
We hope you will.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
The Idaho student murders, and obviously it's a little bit
of a breakdown of how we got here and you know,
kind of informs some of these questions that we've had
that were you know, listen, we're finally getting some of
these answers, unsatisfying as they may be, so yeah, please
jump in and you know, throw your questions in the mix.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
Yeah, listen, I'm Taha. Thank God for Taha. He's taking
them all down because I would forget them already, Like
I can't remember what I said twenty minutes ago.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
Thank you, Tah, God I have. I have a bunch
of questions for him.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
Myself and producer Taha, we've been talking about this also.
I think one thing that's really the takeaway is it
was always considered such an overkill and such a gruesome
crime scene. I mean, we remember when this crime first happened,
the walls were literally bleeding, right, there was blood on
the baseline of that house, So we knew that it
was unbelievably grotesque. Based on what we're seeing now, it

(01:19:14):
was far worse than we ever could have imagined. And
we should be really mad and continue to make sure
we really do understand it. And again join that combo
too of how we can all sort of take something
from this that you know, dare I say, is air
quotes positive that keeps us a little safer in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
It's so hard, we were saying too.

Speaker 6 (01:19:36):
During the break, we were saying, you know, for the families,
like everything was released, like do you wish you know?
Do you how much do you want to know?

Speaker 7 (01:19:44):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:19:44):
Like at a point it's not going to bring back,
you know, your loved one, Like do you really want
to know how many wounds or how or you know
or do you want to know because you're never going
to get answered.

Speaker 4 (01:19:54):
I would want to know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
I want to know everything.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
If my daughter had to experience it and go through it,
I want to know every single hair on her head
that was affected. I want to know everything that happened.
I want to know minute, second by second, every and
that's where I think Steve is he wants to know,
and not just Steve. The entire gunsolve is family and

(01:20:20):
I think Maddie's dad. I might be wrong about that,
but I want to know every single detail because if
she had to go through it, I want to know
about it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
As your parents that don't want to know, don't have
to read it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Or they don't have a choice. It's everywhere, we're all
talking about it. Well, listen, this is an act. Goodbye,
sal thank you, Courtney, Body, love you boys.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Taha.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
Great show. We'll be back on Sunday. Please tune in.
This is true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all
the time.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
Good Night,