VERDICT in for Killer Dentist James Craig, Dive into Kohberger’s Mind—Plus a Shocking Double Murder in Devil’s Den

Unpacking the tragic double homicide in Devil’s Den, Arkansas, what we know about the recent shooting in Reno, P. Diddy’s shocking new bail proposal, and the official launch of our community documentary-watching club with Netflix’s Amy Bradley Is Missing. Tune in for all the details. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, July thirtieth, and yes,
we have a stacked night of headlines. So listen. There's
newly released bodycam footage that we're really getting some body
expert advice on. In the Brian Coberger, Idaho student murders,
you guys will remember there was that infamous bodycam footage

(00:41):
where he's pulled over twice, and now we're kind of
looking back through a new lens, so we will unpack that. Also,
this Epstein thing really does not seem to be slowing down.
There's been a real cry for these files to be released.
Our president says he's in favor of that. And we're
going to give you some new detail about Gilaine Maxwell's

(01:02):
latest requests. And also this terrible Devil's Den double hibicide.
Parents murdered with their two young children hiking. There's been
a person of interest that's been released to the press.
So we're going to get deeper into that as well.
I'm Stephanie Lei Decker, and I head of KAT Studios,
where we get to make true crime podcasts and documentaries

(01:22):
and I get to be here every night with Courtney
Armstrong and body move in and we have a talkback
actually about the biggest case of the day before we
go to that Adam the dentist affectionately known as the
dopey dentist affection. I say that because we're about to
let it rip. He has a verdict. Now the jury

(01:44):
has spoken, so stay with us because we will be
giving that detail as well. Let's go to the talkback.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Hi, I'm rock I love your show. I was just
wondering with the dirty dentist, what could he have done
better with the evidence? Others is a very suspicious question.
But what could have he done with the evidence you know,
a little bit smarter because I feel like what he
did was a little bit obvious and not very smart.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
You know, Well, you're talking, Yes, that's very suspicious, by
the way, No, I know so dopey.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I mean, I guess that's the lead, right, Thank goodness,
This dopey dentist was, in fact so dopey because you know,
he really has put a lot of people through a
lot of pain.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
I mean, the first thing he could have done is
not have it shipped to his office or his home,
you know, I mean, what a dummy. Yeah, because witnesses
are the ones that basically kind of caught all this,
the people that work with him in the office.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
Another thing he could have done is not purchase it
with his own money, like he could have used cryptocurrency
on you know something. I mean, everything traced right back
to him. He's really a dopey, dunist.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yeah, he could have not walked into a hospital with
the metal syringe in his pocket.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
He could have not met with his lover then when
his wife was dying in the hospital.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Also, maybe, yeah, maybe he could have not tried to
kill his wife with tear drops right eye drops with
cyanide also feels a little dope, like maybe get you know,
a divorce, maybe break up. You know, people break up.
And now these children, six of them, I might add,
you know, have to actually live their life without their

(03:28):
mom because dad was all set for their father. Yeah, exactly. Well,
I don't want to bury the lead, but who are
going to tell us the latest developments.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Well, the dope dentist is the dope dentist is officially
the dope murderer. He has been found guilty. James Craigs.
He's been sentenced to life without parole for the calculated
poisoning and murder of his wife. Her name is Angela Craig.
She was the mother of six of his children. So
he's got the guilty verdict on the murder, and he

(03:59):
all was found guilty of five other charges. Remember, he
was accused of, you know, working with the inmates to
get you know, plant evidence in the house that Angela
was suicidal. He also was accused of getting inmates to
you know, solicit basically the inmates to go after and

(04:21):
hurt and kill the lead detective on this case. I mean,
he was just doing one thing after another. Well, he
was found guilty on these charges. Let me tell you
the charges. Charge one murder in the first degree, guilty
all right, Guilty as guilty as charge right. He was
convicted of intentionally and premeditarily killing his wife, Angela Craig.

(04:42):
So that's the headline. Charge two is solicitation to commit
tampering with physical evidence. Guilty as charged. Guilty as charge,
and that is in relation to he tried to influence
someone to interfere with or destroy evidence related to Angela's death.
Charge three solicitation to commit tampering with physical evidence guilty.

(05:05):
Another count involving efforts to solicit tampering with case evidence.
Charge four solicitation to commit perjury in the first degree.
He was found guilty of this because he was trying
to persuade somebody to lie under oath right. Charge five
solicitation to commit murder in the first degree guilty. I

(05:26):
mean this is you talked about a stacked knight of headlines. Yeah,
this is a stacked charge that he's been guilty. The
charges that he's been guilty ever stacked he could. He
was convicted of attempting to solicit another person to help
carry out a facilitate a murder. Of course he was,
you know, a cute saying that he wanted the lead detective.
Charge six was the solicitation to commit perjury. He was

(05:48):
found guilty and that is the second guilty charge in
this in this category. And charge seven was manslaughter cause
or aids suicide and he was found not guilty. The
jury found him not guilty of the charge that he
helped her cause or aided in Angela's suicide, because she
did have suicide. That's an interesting charge though.

Speaker 5 (06:10):
I wonder if the thinking was as they were prosecuting
and putting the charges up, you know, if this trial
goes sideways or not the way the prosecution wanted that
they wanted a backup, not her backup, but you know,
a catch all kind.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Of maybe if they you know, maybe we could ask
Jared this, like, how often do prosecutors add these lesser
charges for those like, you know, backup situations, And is
that what that means?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I interpreted it that way, and I did too attorney today,
and they did say, you kind of want to be
able to catch just in case. You know. It's like, yeah,
if for some reason he doesn't get brought up on
the murder charges, well then manslaughter would perhaps suffice. It's
kind of the reverse of the Menendez brothers, right, they
were brought up on murder charges and found guilty of that.

(06:58):
And now the argument for the others who killed their
parents who are now up for clemency not to jump
around topics, you know, the opposite is true. They say
that manslaughter would have been more appropriate because it has
a lesser charge interest for context, But yeah, I think
Jarrett Barantino would certainly have an opinion. Yeah, because I'd
like to know how often they do that.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Would there have been there was no manslaughter charge on Coberger,
you know obviously, I mean, I can't get that out
of my head, But yeah, I just wonder how often
these manslaughter charges are added as like a backup, right, or.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
If they knew somehow, Yeah, if James Craig, this dent
is like tipped off, if the prosecution somehow knew what
the defensive strategy was going to be.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, maybe, Well they're in all the we haven't looked
at the pre motion or the truth the pre trial motions.
But I wonder if they led the prosecution to believe
that that was going to happen, that they were going
to be blaming Angela.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Maybe a lawyer is listening, maybe Yeah, if so, listen,
give us a call. Eighty eighty three to one Crime.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
We're trying to figure out the charges in this now
convicted murderer, this dopey dentist who killed his innocent wife, Angela.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
We want to hear about that from you.

Speaker 5 (08:13):
We want to hear about any other crimes you want
to talk about, you can always send us a talk
back on the iHeartRadio app. You just click the little
button in the upper right hand corner, leave a message,
and you are on the show and body.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
There also were victim impact students really sad, really really sad.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
So James Craig listened as his daughter, she was twenty
she's twenty one years old. He was crying. He was
leaning forward in his seat crying. His twenty one year
old daughter is giving an emotional statement to the court
before his sentencing. She's saying things like I want my mom,
I want my mom more. I want more than anything
to go home at the end of the day and

(08:52):
just give her a hug and call her and tell
her about all the crazy stuff that's happened, she said.
And as she's saying this, James Craig's the Adobe dentist, his
defense attorney, her name is Ashley Whittam, had her hand
on his back and he's just kind of like leaning forward,
sobbing as the daughter's talking like like he didn't do

(09:12):
this to her.

Speaker 5 (09:13):
I don't know just or is just realizing seeing his
own daughters speak those words, what he actually did do,
because how relatable is that is. I just want to
tell my mom about this craziness going on.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
I mean, she said what many people can relate to, right,
even the sun too was so powerful? You know, their
only son essentially, who said, you know, yeah, they lost
a dad. Also to your earlier point, like this is
sort of the ripple effect of this is unimaginable. And
imagine having to face your dad, who you love. They
all thought so highly of him, and I'm sure at

(09:49):
some point stood by him. What a come to Jesus
moment that must be in Yeah, yeah, heartbreaking the son.
The son said this exactly. He said, it's hard to
lose your mom and then three days after that, lose
your dad. And he said his mom didn't get along.
He and his mom didn't get along great, but she
was a good lady and they loved each other. It's

(10:09):
so sad.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Eldest daughter of Angela and James Craig said life will
never be the same without her mom. It will never
be as bright as it was when my mom was
here with us. She said, I was supposed to be
able to trust my dad. He was supposed to be
my hero, and instead he'll forever be a villain in
my book.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
And that's the lead a villain in my book. I
read that and my part stopped, and then, you know,
you think about it. Yeah, I mean, this is their
story forever, is that their dad is the villain.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
And we're reading these these victim impact statements. But there
was a lot of emotion behind all her words, so
much so that like the jurors who were, you know,
listening to this, were also started crying. This affected the jury.
I just think it's you know, really it was just
really powerful. Angela's sisters addressed her siblings killer during the

(10:58):
impact statement, and they called him dishonest, a cheat, and
a heartless excuse of a human being. For years, this
is what she said, for years, you planned, you plotted,
and you schemed to break her for your own selfish,
unfathomable ends, but you never could. Her sister Tony said this,
it's just she kind of tore into him a little bit,

(11:20):
kind of you know, very reminiscent of Killie Gonsolve's sister
Olivia Gonsolves with Brian Coberger. She didn't go in as harsh,
but she was very spectacular and very impactful with her
impact statement.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Did you feel like his performance, meaning the murderer is
Jope dentis too shall even let's not even bother with
his name. He was sobbing so much, and you know,
I think we were talking about it the other night
looking at photographs of them. You could see this online
very quickly of them in happier days. He's all smiles,
and you know, he's such a cozy, little like loving

(11:54):
sweet guy. And it's a pretty big, stark difference to
the man that sat there in the courtroom today having
to face the music and his children. You know, look,
the buck stops now not going to be such a
fun night transitioning into prison. And this is a person
who's been running around spending money, bankruptcy twice and then
awhile has a budding practice that he's sending cyanide to come.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
On, and also like trying to rope in all these
other people, yes, including his daughter, including his daughter. He
wanted his daughter to plant a journal with and then
he wanted her to create like an AI.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Video of her mother unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Saying that she wasn't she didn't want to live anymore,
she wanted to die, basically implying that Angela killed herself.
I mean, who does that to their own kid? And
and then he's saying there.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
My favorite word, but what a great example of it, right,
what you do for me?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, look at me in such a time, using his
beloved children to do it. Yeah, and kind of leaning
into the fact that she was a woman of faith
as well. So it almost gave him a little bit
of a free pass to be extra because he knew
she was too faithful.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
Well, free pass no more the straight to day in estory,
right to jail. Listen, stick around, we have a lot
more to get to. We're going to begin our coverage
of the murders that took place in Devil's Den, Arkansas
last weekend.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
We have updates in Sean Diddy Combs keep it here
True Crime tonight, So again, lots to discuss. This dopey
dentist has been found guilty and as looking for a

(13:45):
real long time behind bars. Not going to be very fun.
Likely a tough night for him tonight. But that's a
wrap on the dentist and justice has been served. I
think we all feel really good about it. But here's
a talkback. Hi.

Speaker 6 (13:59):
My name's I'm a doctor and I have been listening
to y'all for a while now. Love the show, And
I was kind of thinking about the part where you
were talking about the dopey doctor and how they test
for things in people that have passed away, and like
you said, the talk screen in general is looking for

(14:21):
drugs that you think of, like LSD, THHC, opiate things
like that, and when people die and it doesn't make sense,
why then we start looking at what their symptoms are
and then we test for those specific things that cause
those symptoms. So I think he thought he was really smart,

(14:43):
but not that smart obviously, But yeah, I hope that
is helpful in some way.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Love the show, very helpful. It's so helpful, and it's
so true. It's actually a really good doctor, so prestigious.
So yeah, thank you for that because it is true.
And like if you were ever in a horrible situation
like that too, to make sure that you are asking
for an advanced texicology, you know, because it's not standard.
I'm imagining that takes time and resources and money, et cetera.

(15:09):
So it's no no faults to the doctor. C how
many people are dying from THHC, I guess it would
maybe be an emblematic look at are they not thinking clearly?
And therefore they were under the influence and what makes
the wild kind of like a yeah, okay, I gotcha.
So maybe this was like, oh my goodness, they were
on drugs, grabbed a lamp and you know, hit themselves

(15:32):
over the head. I know this is the worst example ever, but.

Speaker 7 (15:36):
It was the weird worst I've obviously never done THHD
and I promise, I promise, but dude, tell me more.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Doctor, grab a lamp and hit yourself over there. Well,
that would be suspicious. It could be as one thing,
and you know, based on that would be very suspicious exactly.
So like our first caller, Rock, but very suspicious. You
in Rock are best friends. Okay, listen. He and Mason

(16:10):
escaped the asylum tonight.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
So yes, thank you very much for that, and we
appreciate the information. We are going to take a pretty
hard right turn to another story. It's really sad, it's
really senseless. Police are looking for an unidentified man and
this is because two parents were killed. They were hiking
with their children in Arkansas State Park. The victims are

(16:36):
Clinton and Kristen Brink, and they were attacked on July
twenty sixth, just a couple of days ago. They were
hiking with their two young daughters, seven and nine, and
they were at Devil's Den State Park in Arkansas.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
The children were not harmed.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
Authorities are actively investigating the case with the help of
the FBI.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
This case is all over my social media all the Yeah,
and you know, I mean, it's so sad. So apparently
they're hiking, right, I'm just bringing this up. They're out hiking,
enjoying nature. They're at Devil's End. They're kind of like
in a remote area of this trail. And for whatever reason,
and not that there could be a valid reason, but

(17:16):
for whatever reason, the dad is apparently starts to get
stabbed by this guy ran and nowhere. Yeah, and the
mom ushers the children, her two little girls, seven and nine,
and tells them to like run to the car as
fast as you can. I'm not sure exactly, and she

(17:36):
goes back to help him. She must have loved him
so much and now she's a victim.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Too. Awful, just awful. And do we think they were targeted,
meaning somebody maybe knew them or we.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Have no idea, right, they were random? I don't know
that they were targeted. But the Arkansas State Police said
that the gentleman gentleman being too nice, the guy, the the.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Suspect, the person of interest, the person of interests of interest,
we should person of interest drove away in like a
black sedan.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
They think it's a Mazda, but they there's a detail
that they that they tell us the license plate was
blacked out with like either duct tape or electrical tape,
which tells me this.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Did not try to hide.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
They are they don't want to be identified. So they
knew they were going to do something.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Right, that is premeditated. You know that there are going
to be cameras and law enforcement looking for you or
just eyewitnesses looking for you. So to cover your license
plate is a real tell that bad things are about
to ensue right now. How about this whole person of
interest thing too? Do you know? Is that? Yeah? So
here's what we do know, which is not much.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
The Arkansas State Police they released a composite sketch as
well as a rear facing photo of the man that
was taken in the park the day of the murders.
This suspect is described in anyone in and around the
area Listen Up. He's described as a white male, medium
build and was last seen in a dark cap, sunglasses,
fingerless gloves, and had a black backpack. Apparently, authorities think

(19:12):
that this person likely sustains an injury during the attack, so.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Maybe he sought medical attention. He maybe sought medical attention.
And yeah, you know, one of those little things that
we were talking about earlier was this idea of what's
a person of interest versus a suspect, you know, because
it is a big difference.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
It's a very big difference. And on the twenty eighth
of July, a sketch was released and it was believed
to be the suspect in the double homicide. However, the
next day, yesterday, the terminology was changed to a person
of interest and a new photo was released.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
So police use.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
Person of interest to describe anyone who sort of potentially
connected to a crime.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
They might not have any enough sufficient.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
Evidence to label the person a suspect, but think they
have someone to say, and you know, a person of
interest could also it could just be somebody who may
have information. A suspect, however, is when evidence leads to
the fact that the perpetrator is very likely a part
of the crime, or they suspect, they're part of the crime.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
And that's kind of infamous because that happened following the
Richard Jewel case, which is pretty infamous, where Richard Jewel,
the suspected or person of interest or suspect at the
time of a mass bombing, was frankly wrongly accused and
as a suspect, it's really hard to take that back.
So a person of interest could just be somebody who

(20:40):
may know more. You know, Madame Lake Kann's parents had
the same problem. That's right, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Listening to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio on Body Moved
and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker, and
we're right in the middle of talking about this Devil's
Den double homicide that just occurred on Saturday. If you
want to weigh in, if you have any more information,
give us a call it eighty to eight thirty one
crime or leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app. So, yeah,

(21:07):
the person of interest in the suspect situation happened with
the Madelia McCann family and there was a big problem
because the Portugal state or police or whatever called them
suspects when and apparently was a language issue or I
can't remember, But do you guys remember that.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
I do remember that there was the issue and were
they then not able to leave because of it? I said,
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
If you know, give us a call. I'm trying to read,
please three to one crime. And look, it sounds like
that's actually a very good terminology, as we're becoming slowly
the terminology police. But listen, we've seen this many many
times that a person is called the suspect and their
lives are over over over, and you know, but I
do think it's an interesting take back of going from

(21:54):
a suspect only to a person of interest. Seems like
the word suspect should always be used for, you know, dangerous,
real things someone suspected of.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
If you're an r shot and you happen to be
at Devil's Den at the state Park that day, the
Arkansas State Police is asking you to send any photos
that you've taken because there might be somebody standing like
in the background that you don't even realize is there.
That you know, their team of experts will be able
to analyze these photos and maybe zoom in and you know,

(22:26):
see if because the only photo that we have of this,
the suspect or of the person of interest is from
behind and so we don't get to see his face
at all. So if you, if you were there, please
contact the Arkansas State Police and send your photos because
there might be hidden gems that they might be able
to pull from.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's so true. That is so true.

Speaker 5 (22:47):
Yeah, no detail too small, even one you don't see.
The FBI also has joined in the investigation. They have, yep,
they have, and all the park trails are closed. It
as an active search. Additionally, autopsies are underway at the
Arkansas State Crime Lab. It's going to determine, of course,
the exact cause of death. I think we grossly know

(23:07):
what that is. And the family, bless them. They describe
the victims as heroes who died protecting their children, because
that's what they are. And the family says, Clinton and
Kristen died heroes protecting their little girls, and they deserve justice.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
They will forever live on in all of our hearts.
Are the girls with the family, the children. The children
are with the family, Oh good, good, and they're safe.
But again, what a traumatic event, and to have them
be eyewitnesses to something so unbelievably traumatic. Number one, just
we wish them so well and send our love whatever

(23:47):
that's worth. And also imagine, you know, like where do
you put that? Now you're being asked questions. You know,
they are sort of the vital piece of information here,
So of course law enforcement I suppose to speak with them.
And although Stephanie you bring that up, do we know
for a fact that they actually were I believe that

(24:07):
they were brought for questioning by authorities, which I think
is pretty controversial.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
I think they were the ones that initially described the
suspect like the fingerless glood.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
It's my understanding to the glod okay, And if there's
anybody who knows differently, please you jump in. That was
the early report that we had initially read. And again
I think sometimes that's a tricky one for law enforcement
to have to make that call with young children. You know,
they know they're trained, you know, psychologists are involved. They
don't want to retraumatize anyone. But again, in the spirit

(24:39):
of keeping others safe, if someone's on the loose, you
kind of have to write. So if anyone knows differently,
please do let us know. We are going to be
unpacking this new idea that body has about kind of

(24:59):
this screening party. We want to know where is Amy Bradley.
And if you've been watching along on the Netflix documentary,
you know, don't talk about it too much because you
want it, save it for the show, or if you
haven't watched it yet, we're going to encourage you to
do so so we can all talk about it. I
haven't watched yet, so spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

(25:21):
Also Diddy back in the news looking for some you know,
cash to be exchanged for him to be released from
prison while awaiting his sentencing in October. Fifty million bucks?
Will that send him home? And then also Brian Coburger
some kind of you know, haunting developments. You know, a
body with a body etique, bodycam footage, No, the bodycam footage,

(25:46):
body expert, you know body language. I thought you were
just talking to me. Body body body, body, body, body body.
A body language expert is looking at the body cam
footage in the Brian Coburger CA. You'll remember he was
pulled over by authorities two times prior to his arrest
and it actually is really telling. So more on that

(26:08):
to come. But first we have a talkback.

Speaker 8 (26:10):
I'm calling just because my burning question with BK, I
think is just kind of the question that everybody is asking,
which is why did he target them specifically? I guess
more detailed would be did he really not take into
account how many people were in and out of the

(26:32):
house and did he really truly think nobody else was
going to be there when he committed this crime?

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Thanks so much, great question.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
I mean, that's like the burning the burning question, and
yas are the facts are that he drove by the
house several times and had to see how many cars
were in the you know, in the driveway there. I mean,
he knew people were in that house.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
That was a very busy house all the time by
many accounts. Right, So that's a really good question.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Now, The idahost Statesman, which is a newspaper, I talked
about this a little bit last night. If you missed it,
and you can download the podcast on the iHeartRadio app.
The Idaho Statesman had a panel on YouTube on their
YouTube channel yesterday and on this panel they had a
bunch of reporters that they work with that spoke with
Bill Thompson and Chief Fry Bill Thompson.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
If you don't know.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
He's the prosecutor in this case, and Chief Fry was
the chief of the police, and they had some questions
answered and got some body cam footage, and I'm going
to talk about it really quick. So one of the
burning questions that we've had is in the Pennsylvania search
warrant results some of the things that they took from

(27:41):
Brian Coberger's home in Pennsylvania. One of the things that's
been burning a hole in my heart for the last
two and a half years is they found it said
it was number thirty five and it was IDs inside
a glove inside a box. And I initially my initial

(28:03):
reaction was he's been doing this before in Pennsylvania, and
a lot of people thought it might be the victims,
which is totally reasonable to assume that as well. I
happened to think it was women in Pennsylvania, and I
was right. It was women in Pennsylvania. And one of
them was a co worker of his that he worked

(28:23):
with at the Pleasant Valley School District when he was
a part time security guard where his father was also
a custodian. I believe it was a janitor. Yeah, he
was working there for many years and very loved right
so fa. There was yes, And we don't know who
the coworker was. We don't know how, when, how, what

(28:45):
the circumstances were behind Brian getting access to her ID.
We don't even know what kind of idea it was, right,
We don't even know if it was like a work
ID or if it was a school idea. We have
no idea what kind of idea it was. But I'm
my is that he has been doing this before and
he's he was a peeping tom of some kind on

(29:05):
women that he was drawn to in some way or
hated in some way, and broke into these women's homes
or their lockers at work, or their person in the
break room, whatever, and in stole something either that had
their address on it or that they would be upset
by losing. And it was so personal and it has

(29:29):
it's you know, it's as a piece of a person.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
By the way, we have written to rupt this. Yeah,
we have breaking news.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
Just before this commercial break, we were talking about the
couple that was stabbed to death and in the just
recently a suspect has been arrested. His name is James
Andrew McCann and he's a twenty eight year old man
from Arkansas, and he again was arrested in the killings

(29:59):
of the married bull at Devil's Den State Park over
the weekend. And that's about what we know. And he
has been charged with two counts of capital murder. There
is no motive that's been mentioned. I'm so glad, Yeah, yeah,
I mean, I hope doing the police effort that, you know,
Like we said that the FBI had joined in and

(30:20):
they closed the park and it was really all hands
on deck.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
So I am grateful they have a suspect.

Speaker 5 (30:26):
Yeah, me too, know, I'm I'm so grateful. He's what
twenty eight, he's a twenty eight year old. Again, no motive,
it's very early days.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
And he's also from Arkansas. That's correct, Well, that's correct.
I hope they got the right guy. So back to Coberger.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to like, but back to Coburger.
They also released bodycam footage of a stop we've often
heard about this stop in August, and this stop in
August is really important because it's how the police got

(30:55):
Brian Coberger's phone number in order to run all the
reports and whatnot on that device.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
So we've often heard about it.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
We finally got the body cam footage, and Taylor wanted
this bodycam footage and the stop excluded from the trial.
And now I think we know. I okay, So this
stop happened on August twenty first of twenty twenty two.
You know how bodycam footage usually has like a day
and time on it, Yeah, this one doesn't.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I was so mad.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
I don't know, so I had to like pause the
video at certain spots where I could see the cops
clock in his car. But it was at eleven thirty
at night. It was like eleven twenty seven on a
Sunday night, and it was about five minutes from the
house Sunking Road.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
So it's in Moscow.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
It's a Laytal County Sheriff's It's about five minutes away
from the King roadhouse where, of course the murders took place.
Brian Koberger lives in Pullman, Washington, so really there's no
real reason for him to be there at eleven thirty
on a Sunday night. And he's wearing like a black
kind of like huffed turtleneck.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Like it's not a weird turtle neck, it's like a turtleneck,
like a mock.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
Yeah, like a hop turtleneck and like short sleeves and
black like kind of jeans.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I'm such a weird turtleneck. It's totally weird.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
Right, So, and he's and he's like, you know, the
cop comes up and he's like, you know, you were
going forty one in a thirty five And Brian Coberger's
like okay, and the cops like did you did? Were
you wearing your seatbelt? And Brian's like no, Like he's
so weird, Like why would he at a law He's
so weird. I'm that turtle neck he's wearing like a

(32:36):
sleep it's for the you know visual. I think it's
like a short sleeve. It was weird turtleneck on a
man at eleven thirty right right. So I, of course
I had to figure out where this the stop happened.
And it happened right in front of the In one
of the frames of the video you can see a
Best Western plus in the back round. So I went
into Google Maps and found where the stop happened. We

(32:59):
knew where it happened, but I wanted to know exactly
where it was, you know, And it happens right before
the stop light there.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
And there's no.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Viable reason for him to have been at that intersection
unless he was driving by that house.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
In my opinion, well he was, I mean how many times?

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Yeah, he was twenty three times, all late at night
and early in the morning.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Right, yeah, well I can't remember. He was forever looking
at a star gaze. What was he start looking at
the starry staring so but again twenty three times being
pinged in and around the area. That house was in
a very obscure location. Not really obscure, I shouldn't say that,
but it's more of a cult to sact like you
have to be extremely intentional to drive to that house,

(33:46):
and there were like it's very very close to fraternity
houses and off campus housing. So it is pretty wild,
even back to our original caller, for him to think
nobody would hear anything because you know, you don't really
seeing the photographs. Is that the houses are very close
together and this house is very small. Yes, it's a
lowed area because there's you know, frat houses and all

(34:08):
the reveli in front of you know, college life. But
the idea that this guy thought he was going to
swoop in there undetected is pretty astounding and also the
fact that there is no obvious known connection is really
the icing on the cake.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
Kite, and that goes back to our talk back. She
wanted to know why did he target these victims exactly,
and honestly, I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
I don't know. It might be random, it might be random.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
And that's kind of what the state has been saying
since the GAG's been lifted, right, that there was no connection.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Go ahead, the one connection. I don't know why I
raised my hand, Are you okay? I raised my hands, yeah, exactly,
the concussions real. But they did say that he, you know,
he had those photographs of women in bathing suits that
were friends with the victims, so that is a bit
of a connection. So, you know, the speculation has been

(35:02):
that he was at a party, at that infamous pool
party where he was partying a total weirdo July ninth,
July ninth, and the first day he shows up at
the house, stumbled home following one of them, either a
group of them or one of them or maybe that's
what led them led him to that particular house. Right.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
One other piece of news in Brian Coberger, I signed
up for Vinelink a long time ago to get notified
about Brian Coberger's movements through the penal system. And I
got a text today around noon and it said that
he had been moved and I was like, what the heck?
So I went looked him up and he's been housed
in Unit J at this facility he's at. So I
was like, oh my god. And I looked at Chad Daybell.

(35:41):
He's in the same unit as Chad Daybell. I mean,
come on, and if you don't know who Chad day
Bell is, go ahead, body, do you want to give
it to us. Chad Daybell is the husband of Laurie
Valo Da Bell, and they were in this like religious
cult that believed her children were demons. Basically, I mean,
how do you explain this in like thirty seconds? It's

(36:02):
it's a killer kids.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, they killed kids.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Yeah, and she kills wife possibly and his ex wife
and her and him and her husband. I mean it's
but to think of those two like maybe in the cafeteria.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Wicked cutting up some meat loaf. What are they talking about?

Speaker 4 (36:22):
I mean, well, this must be a good unit though,
because if Gable's on death row mm hmm, so this
is not like.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
A nice unit. To be in right, right, They're not
probably hanging out in the promissary anything soon. No, Wicked, Wicked, Wicked, Wicked.
So next segment, we're going to be talking a little
bit about Diddy. Oh, he is back and he has
tons of requests and he really does want to go
home until his October sentencing and he's putting real money

(36:50):
on the table, and we shall see what the judge says,
So more on that to come. Also, Courtney will be
filling us in on some new developments in this tragic
case at the Den where a husband and wife were
murdered while hiking with their two young children. Somebody has
been arrested, and we're going to be discussing this documentary
that everybody's talking about on Netflix, where is Amy Bradley

(37:14):
Cruise Ships. Yeah, seems very compelling, so we don't want
to spoil it for anybody. But body is starting this like,
I don't know, like a viewing party, and I'm here
for it. So we're going to get our marching orders.
But first let's go to a talkback.

Speaker 9 (37:30):
Hi, ladies, this is Lives in Washington calling back about BK.
I was listening to last night's episode and Joseph mentioned
that he wasn't sure why anybody would need to carry
a shovel in their car if they live in an apartment.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
As someone who grew up in Michigan and.

Speaker 9 (37:43):
Now lives in the Pacific Northwest, having things like a
shovel in your car, especially in November going all the
way into winter can be just something that you assume
that you do so that if your car ever gets
stuck in snow. I don't know what kind of shovely had,
and I don't want to give any passes, but there's
a good explanation for.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
Sure, for sure, and that definitely was a consideration. My
understanding is that it was one of those pointed shovels,
like not like a snowshoevel, you know, like the snow shovels.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Are like flat, yeah, long, so much works shoveling out yeah,
oh my god, heavy to hear the summer. Kids enjoy
the summer. My understanding is that this shovel.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
But you know, again, the information I have could be incorrect,
you know, just throwing it out there, But my understanding
is at the shovel that they used or that they
hadn't he had in his truck was kind of one
of those pointed like a spade spade Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Well, even if that's the case, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (38:38):
I'm a person who, you know, instead of a screwdriver,
I'll use a pen and from then on that pen
becomes my screwdriver for whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
And I don't know. It didn't seem that maybe I
stand alone and then I don't mind me. I just
threw a lamp at my head. We all have it
together very tightly on this show.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
But I agree with what you said and that it
does make sense. And it was November and kind of
any port in the storm. Any shovel in your trunk?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, now that the way a shovel in the trunk
is actually a very good safety tip. You're probably right
about that.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
I mean, I'm getting around a shovel. I don't know
what I would use it in a pinch shovel some sand.
Another safe thing to have in your car is a
seatbelt cutter.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I just got that. Did we talk about this, I
think we did. I'm kind of obsessed.

Speaker 10 (39:30):
I was.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
Per I told you guys, I got that pointy tool
that that will punch your window.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, we got it. I got it. I ordered it. Yeah, okay,
mine has a compass and a fishing pole on it.
Why do you gotta really wait? I want the compass
in the fish.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
Listen, if it's like the apocalypse or something or armageddon,
Am I really going to like skin a rabbit or like, no,
I'm not. I'm just going to die. So I don't
even know why about this thing? Well wait, look, you
know you never know is right, and it doesn't have
to be a rabbit. And by the way, you will
not die because I will have a.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Shovel in my trunk and will everybody out of it.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
But I got this whole I got this whole prepper
bag ready. And my friend Joe, she's like, what are
you doing? You're not gonna like go fishing for real? Body, Like,
get real?

Speaker 2 (40:20):
And I know you got a hair up with someone,
you know what I'm saying. And your neighbor barely stand
my own company, like you know what I mean? And
I and I live out here. There's no water, Like
what am I gonna do? Get some water? I would
start there. That's good for your prepper kit. And as
a friendly reminder to all my loved ones, make sure

(40:40):
you have some small dollar bills in your home, small
dollar bills and keep the gas in your tank. Don't
mess around with that. And listen, it's been at nights
and we still haven't even gotten to the fact that

(41:00):
Diddy is trying to get home while he awaits his
sentencing in October. Also, Epstein, there have been some you know,
new developments today basically saying that people really want to
see the grand jury filings and any of the information
that was shared by Gilane Maxwell to the Grand jury,
which you know probably has some compelling information in it. Again,

(41:23):
our president says that he is hoping that files are
in fact released, assuming of course they're air quotes fair.
And I guess that's the question for the group or
for anyone who wants to join the conversation, what would
be fair and who sort of decides that eight eight
eight three one crime. We definitely want you to jump
in join the conversation. Leave us a message, leave us

(41:46):
a talkback on our iHeartRadio app, or you can always
hit us up on our socials. So also, this you know,
really big thing in this Netflix documentary body that we're
all going to be discussing this where Amy Bradley, you know, taha.
I already have our theories, which is, you know, interesting
considering I haven't watched ye watched that. There's so much
of chatter about it. It's hard to escape it. So

(42:08):
we need to jump into the combo. Pretty we know
we need to jump into the combo. But you know,
when you give their rules, tell everybody what there's rule
there are, it's your club. You're starting this viewing party when.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yeah, I want to start this like community, my friendly
here's the thing. My friends and I get together and
we watched the documentary and we say, we're like, we
sit down, we okay, press play and we play. And
then when it's all done, we get online with one
another and we talk about what, you know, what we
just watched and what do you think about this?

Speaker 2 (42:34):
I think about that. Okay, that's what we do.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
And I thought it would be fun if we did
that here and enjoy, you know, had everybody do it
with us and they can leave us talkbacks and oh
did you guys see what err brother said? Anyway, Yes,
I watched episode one of Amy Bradley Is Missing, and
I was immediately hooked. Okay, I've already seen episode one
and I presented it that night on this show, and

(42:56):
I feel like it was a month ago, and I
was like, let's watch us together, and yes, Courtney the
cheater went and watched all of it.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
It's that good. I got suber. I watched three. I
know I did. I got sucked in. I didn't mean to.

Speaker 5 (43:11):
And I'll be honest, I think this is a little
of the Teacher's pet and me when I was like,
I'm going to do.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Extra works, I think that's the truth of as. I'm
the only one who hasn't watched yet. But listen, it's
not that I didn't tried last night. We all tried.
I just was so tired. I'm sorry, don't feel the
middle of a move, but I will. What is our deadline?
I want to st all have to watch. What we're
going to do is we're going to come up with
a cute name for it.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
If you have an idea for me on the names,
give us a clue about eighty eight thirty one crime
or leave us a talkback. Was a suggestion something like
true crime documentary and pup meets the podcast and we're
going to like club it and talk about it. But
this one in particular, Amy Bradley is missing. Is so
interesting because her brother and family are so forthcoming with

(43:57):
tips that they've received throughout the years.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
So it's a good case to like sleuth in And I.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
Thought with me and i'm, you know, being on the show,
it might be a good lesson in sleuthing.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
I love of it.

Speaker 11 (44:11):
I want it.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
So it's my deadline. We're going to start August first.
Well that's we're going to start the month of August
with it. Okay, So the first show in August. I'm
telling Taha right now, I'm looking at him.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Right in the eye. I'm writing it Sunday and I'm
not here Thursday and Sunday. Can we do Monday. We'll
start it Monday when you get back. But everyone should
at least watch it by this weekend.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
And body, because you're talking so much about it, we've
already got like people interested.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
We actually actually just got to talk back about it.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Oh good, Oh right, well, I got a couple of
emails to afford them. I afforded them to your game.
Everybody's texting about wanting to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So well, everybody, if you want to play it, let's
play the talk back. Do we play the ammy Bradley
talk back.

Speaker 12 (44:53):
Hi, ladies, this is Riley. I have a detail in
the Amy Bradley case that I did not see mentioned
on the documentary and I want to see what you
guys think. So the morning that Amy went missing, her
father is the first person to wake up in the
family and notice she's gone. He leaves the room to
go look for her. At this point, her mother and
brother are so sleep. There's no one else on the

(45:14):
ship allegedly that knows she's gone. Yellow the bass player
comes up to her father as he's looking and says,
I'm sorry to hear about your daughter.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
This is a spoiler. Come on, Riley, you're jumping the
shark here, my Riley, listen. Everybody has to take it
down a notch. M Courtney, zip it till Monday. Okay,
I'm not going to say thing. This is your thing.
I've only given ever to give us a second to
watch at least watch episode one by Monday. Okay, done.

(45:46):
Everybody here, everybody's listening. Everybody gets it, and we all
have our assignments, and once you've watched, you'll lose your mind.

Speaker 5 (45:54):
I actually want to keep this talk back and play
it again because.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I am first, by the way, Courtney is wearing a
weighted vest right now, and it's so satisfying. I had
a pack mine, but it really works. I helped. I
love it with my shoulders back. Yeah, I just help
with the posture. I yes that because I'm lunch back.
I know, I know, because we're sitting too much. We
should all be standing, everybody jumping jacks, all of us.

(46:18):
So back to Epstein for one quick second. I know
there's a ton of new developments, but it does seem
like it's heating up still on all sides and not
really settling down. Any of you guys have an opinion
on that. Do we think Elain Maxwell is going to
be set free? I guess that's the burning question. If
anybody wants to jump in and give their opinion, eight eight,
eight to three one crime. My opinion is that not

(46:39):
the mind counts. But I would think in the coming
days we're gonna there's going to be some action. I
don't come one way or the other.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
I think that unless something really changes, that she and
her legal representation are stipulating far too many demands, you
think for.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
A pedophile to be asking for telling on.

Speaker 5 (46:58):
The unity and saying let's do it where I want
to do it, not where I am. And you need
to give me all of the questions in advance. So
questions in advance, Elaine Maxwell, I mean, what kind of
questioning is that?

Speaker 2 (47:11):
If you get them in advance and can like form
your answers in a thoughtful manner, that doesn't seem authentic
and truthful. Why would you need that? That's right, that's
a good question.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
So I don't I think it might stop there again
unless somethings shifted.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
But you know, the demands were denied. We should make
sure she's on the lie detector test with a gentleman
that was here who also put Gary Coleman's wife to task.
Maybe we can get Elaine Maxwell to succumb to a
live test test. Yes, you know, it's a loud and

(47:43):
clear listen if you've got nothing to hide. But it
does buy me out that, you know, a convicted sex
trafficker who is you know, charged with luring women into
really hideous circumstances, is trying to set the tone, and
I hope immunity is not on the is.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Not allowed, I should say, I mean neither. You're listening
to true crime tonight where we talk true crime all
the time. I'm Boddy Movin and I'm here with Courtney
Armstrong and Stephanie Lyideker and we're going to begin going
into some headlines. If you want to give us a
call at eighty eight thirty one Crime or use a
talkback on the iHeartRadio app, just click on the microphone
in the top corner and you wilcord a little voicemail

(48:23):
and we'll get it right away.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Courtney, what do you got? Okay? This is the latest.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
This happened while we've been on air in the Devil's
Den Doubles stabbing and a twenty eight year old man,
she's from Arkansas, was arrested just recently for killing the
married couple in front of their children. This is the
couple who again was at Devil's Den State Park over
the weekend. And the man who's been arrested. His name

(48:49):
is James Andrew McGann and he is from Springdale, Arkansas.
He has been charged with two counts of capital murder.
There has been no possible motive mentioned. And Mike Hager,
who is the director of the Arkansas State Police, he
thanks state police for working long hours in the search

(49:10):
for a suspect. He also thanked the federal agencies for
their assistance. So again this was really all hands on
deck and assuming the right man's in custody, no reason
not too Yeah, hats off.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
And also it made all of.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
Us over the break kind of send another round of
good wishes to all those absolute heroes who have been
looking for Travis Decker.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
The other manhunt that has been going on in.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
The Northeast for the man suspected Northwes. Excuse me, excuse me,
thank you for that suspected for killing his three girls
under ten.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
But in any case, this man hunt is over. At
Devil's Den. Oh so relieved. I'm so so relieved.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
And they, I mean, the family must be just so
relieved to because you don't know, like, is he going
to be coming after the kids because they saw him,
Like I'm I didn't want to say that earlier, but
that was what I was thinking. I was like, oh
my god, this guy's on the least kids saw him.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Oh my god, you know, so did he?

Speaker 5 (50:08):
Absolutely? Yeah, Diddy, Stephanie just perked up Sean Diddy Combs.
He has made a new bail motion and he is
requesting release on fifty million dollars bond and here this
fifty million dollars Still.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Wow, does did he have all this money? Rock baby?
And what Shawn John? The brand? Wasn't that like a that? Yeah,
A lot of very long tillion dollars worth of people
buy it, I guess, I mean, how how do people
make this kind of money? But this has gotten me enraged.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
The argument is that he was quote provoked into violence
by Jane, the victim who testified on her harrowing account.
So he's saying that he deserves this bail because of
the provocation. For anyone who doesn't remember, early in July,
Colmes was acquitted of sex trafficking and recketeering charges. He

(51:10):
was found guilty on two counts of transportation for prostitution,
and he was denied bail because the judge, I feel
correctly cited evidence of domestic violence, witnessed hampering, and community
danger for goodness akes.

Speaker 13 (51:25):
So in the motion yeah with him grow away to
key absolutely, and you know, specifically in the defense's motion
they acknowledge, yes, he has been violent with Jane in
twenty twenty four, but the provocation was quote through her
own acts of violence and during the trial Jane had

(51:46):
testified that she once pushed Colmbs into a counter, which
prompted him to then punch, kick, and choke her.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
So he is also a man who has been alleged
to have beaten and we have seen with our own
eye he has beaten people.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
I want to get to the Siah thing too real
quickly before we move on. He was a profit sharer
partner is how it's described, and that means he basically
gets half of us sales. But he is not an
equity owner. So again, and just fifteen million dollars, how
does he have that much money? I mean, he's spent

(52:23):
exceptional amounts of money on even just this defense. You
own all of those houses that are sitting there. But
wasn't he pretty fine? So yes, of course it was
all of these things. It's a lot of money. He's
making a lot of money left and right and left
and paying this one off and paying that one off.
I want to know where his money comes from. And
I also want to know where Epstein's money came from.

(52:45):
He's a financier from what, from where? Who paid? Or
to fristers? He worked but for like a day based
on no real He had no education.

Speaker 10 (52:56):
For it.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
He just like did, but like who financed him? I
would like to know, you would know the answer. It
was a call in a three one crime.

Speaker 5 (53:04):
There's one final detail that was kind of interesting in Diddy,
and that's the fact that Maureen Comy, who was lead
prosecutor in the trial, she was very unexpectedly removed from
the trial post verdict.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, yeah, we know, and that was pretty, you know,
exceptionally strained because you'll remember Maureen Comy is the daughter
of Comy, Yeah, exactly, James Comy, who famously, you know,
spoke just before the Hillary Clinton Trump election, right, so
when they were going head to head and kind of
brought the emails to attention, and so there's some legacy there.

(53:41):
She did that case and also she tried the Epstein
case or the Gilise Maxwell case. I should say, y,
that's right. It was super fun last night. So we
want a little bit more talk back Roulette tonight. Epstein,
We're going to do a little talking about that. Also,
we're going to talk about body language in this Brian
Coburger bodycam information too, because there has been some new

(54:01):
stuff on that as well. Everyone says he's so blank,
but in reality, a body language expert claims that he
was very fidgety and during these you know, testimony or
witness statements, I not witness statements, family statements that you know,
there were some real tells about his inside rage. But
first let's go to a talk back.

Speaker 11 (54:22):
Good morning, ladies. Well it's morning for me, it's probably
evening for you. This is Stephanie M from Pennsylvania. And
in regards to the New York shooter, you mentioned that
there he purchased his gun in Nevada.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
How did he get to New York? Did he fly?
And if so, how did he manage to get his
gun on the plane. That's a great question. How did
he get his gun on?

Speaker 5 (54:49):
Well?

Speaker 2 (54:49):
I guess he drove. He drove, that's right, Yes, he drove.
He drove. That's how he got to New York. Forever
driving this one.

Speaker 5 (54:56):
Yeah, Well, well otherwise that would have been a very
because how you get a three foot what is it rifle.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
On a plane would be crazy, super disconcerting.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
Well, speaking of guns and Nevada, yes, you know there
Monday there were two mass shootings that we know about.
One was in New York, which we've covered, and the
other one was here in Nevada. Up in Reno Monday,
a gunman opened fire outside the Grand Sier Resort. I've
actually stayed there Lovely Casino, killing three people and wounding

(55:29):
three others, including a police officer who was injured by
glass fragments. The suspect, who was armed with multiple magazines,
was shot by police and is hospitalized in critical condition.
Authorities responded within minutes. I mean, these the cops list
in casinos.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Or full wraps. Well, we give them fre food, so
they're always at the casino.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
Like they know if they are wearing their uniform and
they go into a casino, they're going to be able
to eat for free.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Wow, so's every where. I didn't really everywhere I've worked,
and I've worked in casinos for thirty years. Interesting. Yeah,
you know.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
So authorities responded within minutes, preventing the shooter from entering
the casino. This all happened out like at the valet
porta cachet, you know where you drop your This all
happened out there.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
The suspect hasn't been identified as Dakota alver, a twenty
six year old Renal resident who is currently in critical condition.
It occurred Monday morning, like I said, three people were killed,
three others were wounded. He had multiple magazines and a
handgun that initially malfunctioned. He opened fire in the Valet area,
targeting people at random. He just was kind of like

(56:39):
shooting at random people. He fled, exchanged fire with casino security,
and fatally shot a person driving through the parking lot.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
Imagine you're like, I'm gonna go play Bingo and you're gonna,
you know, you go to your favorite little casino and
you're driving, you just get shots.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Terrible, just awful.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
He also fired at police, striking a patrol vehicle before
being critically injured by an officer's return fire. Reno police responded,
aided by you know, they a nearby fire station came through.
No casino employees were hurt, and the motive remains unknown.
The Sparks Police Department is leading both the shooting and

(57:21):
the officer involved investigation. Sparks is like a little suburb
of Reno. So yeah, it's just like one thing after another.
You know, it's so wild. You know, I work at
a casino. I work in an office, but I walked
out of my office and you know, we have like
an administrative assistant there, and I'm like, oh my god,
a shooting just happened in casine at a casino in Reno,

(57:42):
and you know, I work at a casino, so it's like,
oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
And she goes really and it was like nothing, Like we.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
Have become so used to this that it's almost not
breaking news or you know, like shocking information. Another mass
shooting and then what two hours later, the New York
story broke. It's just been it's just wild times that
we're living in. So the victims, there's three, of course,
three people that have been fatally wounded. One of the

(58:09):
victims has been identified as thirty three year old Andrew
Kannapa of Newberry Park. Jeff Quarrel, who's on the Ventura
County Board of Supervisors, said Andrew was a co owner
of the Side Street Cafe in Newberry Park. Andrew was
a kind soul, of course, a dedicated business owner and
a loving father, like he's got a little boy and

(58:31):
now he's gone. Our thoughts and prayers are with him
and his family and friends and the Side Street Cafe community.
During this incredibly difficult time. We were missing his warm
presence at the restaurant and are deeply saddened by his
loss another victim. No other info is available yet on
these justin Aguilla. I hope I'm saying that right, a
southern California resident. He was thirty three years old. He

(58:54):
and Canepa were in town for a bachelor party.

Speaker 5 (58:57):
Oh my god, you go to just a little bit
and this it's so senseless and the randomness.

Speaker 14 (59:05):
Right.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
And then the other is Angel Martinez, a Reno resident
sixty six years old.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
So two young men and an older gentleman. It's just
really sad. Enough is enough?

Speaker 14 (59:17):
I know?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
I mean, what are we gonna do?

Speaker 3 (59:19):
You know?

Speaker 2 (59:19):
We got to talk to Jessica about this. Oh yes,
I was so happy to have her last night. Jessica
chaplain cap or licensed therapist will be joining us again
to give us some inside info about how to sort
of cope with some of his info.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Yeah, terrible stuff, and what like what is the answer
to the solution this problem?

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Right?

Speaker 12 (59:39):
What is this?

Speaker 2 (59:40):
What is the answer or what cause they all do?
Even just a month as a community listening? Now, like,
how do we how do we make them work a
little bit better?

Speaker 8 (59:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (59:47):
So how do we make it better? I wish we
knew the answer in this exact moment, but open to
suggestions for sure. Yeah. Amen, Well, listen, this is true
crime tonight.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
We're talking about everything that's going on in the world
and some of it, you know, a lot of it
is very sad, and within these sad stories are also
heroes within, including even in Reno, it was two point
five minutes before the police were there, so that is something.
I mean, any loss of life is too horrible to

(01:00:21):
conceive of, but think of what could have been should
police not have gotten there as they did.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
So that's out. You know, hats off to law enforcement
in general. If you are, you know, at a restaurant.
I love this thing that Las Vegas is doing that.
If you see an officer or somebody in the military
who's supporting our country, or a firefighter who's volunteering their
time to fight fires and keep us safe, absolutely make
sure they get a free meal and a high five.

(01:00:49):
And you know that is a thankless part. I should say.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
I don't know that all casinos do it, but every
casino I've been at, I think it's just a case
like thing.

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
When they get on the plane, everybody clap, Oh your service,
Like I think everybody should always do that. And listen.
If you're at the restaurant or the bar and you
see somebody who is you know, protecting us, yeah, buy
him a cup of coffee. Absolutely. I was gonna say
buy him a drink, but that wouldn't be effective. Probably,
I don't do that so much. Well on, yeah, but yeah,

(01:01:23):
you listen. You know, we'd love to hear we'd love
to hear some good news stories.

Speaker 5 (01:01:27):
What's the use in your neighborhood eight A eight three
one crime? And we want to you know, who are
your local heroes. We would actually love to spotlight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Them very much. So I was in a meeting today too,
and somebody had like an incident. A man just like
fell to the ground and was convulsing, and it was
very very scary, and right in front of the department
Oh yeah, literally right next table next to me, and yeah,
law not law enforcement, it was really firefighters were there instantly,

(01:01:57):
and you know he seemed to leave LA traffic, yeah, breathing,
so you know, hat's off. We all said the same
thing like, thank god, you know, that was a really
fast response and you know, hopefully he is doing very
well and wishing them. Well, I wouldn't mind getting back
to the coburger body language expert too. Whenever you guys want,

(01:02:18):
you want to talk, I'm here. I am sad. So
there has been like these reports about his microaggressions. We
talked about it a little bit when he was in court,
you know, basically saying he's guilty of murdering for incredible
Idaho students, that he had this very detached affect, and
as well as his sentence. When he had his sentencing
there he stood as family members, surviving, roommates, friends, they

(01:02:43):
all stood up and gave their victim impact speech, you
know speeches, and I thought they were incredible. And yeah,
now body language experts are coming out to say that
it did, in fact look like he had these micro
ragy moments during a lot of the key ones that
we spoke about here that we all identified and including
the audience, like you guys called in and kind of

(01:03:05):
nailed it, because yes, it seemed like, according to the pros,
under the surface, he was seething. Maybe when Kaylie Gonzalez,
his sister, was telling him sit up in that chair,
you know, she was super like intense and really knew
how to face off with a narcissist.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
So he's as she was speaking, he's like tightening his jaw,
his jaw exactly, and he was like blinking a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Like Yes, it was different. So true, it was different
than it was for other people.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Right, Like when Steve Gonsalvez turned the courtroom podium to
face Frankoberger, he leaned back in his chair and showed
like a full body retreat reaction. This is according to
the body language expert, and indicative of shock or discomfort,
which I thought was really really interesting, because man, that
was that was a power most that you and made.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Somebody made a TikTok you know.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
That one song I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm
a man. That one can't Okay, well, somebody playing, I'll
send it to No, it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
That's I feel like a woman. Lamp.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
Okay, where's the lamp that hit her in the head? Okay,
what is happening?

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Chandelier just fell in my head?

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
No, So anyway, somebody made a video and posted a
stifftok of him, you know, walking up to the podium
and turning it, and they posted it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
They loved it. They posted it to their family page. Today.
They said they loved it. Okay, oh, I love that
because listen, that was a power move and I think
it real master class. We should start to have them
on to discuss sort of the behind the scenes because
you know full well that that took a lot of thought.
It was very coordinated. It was I love the practiced,
I would assume, and a real master class on how

(01:04:47):
to deal with a complete psycho. So yeah, and it
turns out the experts agree. Yeah, and some other body
language experts. There's been sort of several sources we've been reading.
And as he ended the courtroom, murderer b K was
the per the language experts. His gaze was described as

(01:05:08):
manic and intentionally stiff to control the courtroom's impression of him.
So it was control. It was a mask. Yeah, yeah,
it's a mask. It was described as like this mask
of indifference. And listen, we're going to do some more talkbacks,

(01:05:31):
so make sure you join us eight eight eight to
three to one crime, leave us a message or leave
us a talkback on our iHeart app. Let's go to one.

Speaker 10 (01:05:39):
Now, Hi, ladies, this is Sarah from Michigan and I
was just wondering I have never watched donuf with cats
because honestly, I've always been scared because I'm really sensitive
to animal abuse and stuff like that. So I was wondering,
kind of what is body's guide for how I should
go about watching it without I don't know, is there anything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Really graphic or bad?

Speaker 10 (01:06:03):
Are there warnings?

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Help me out? I want to watch it very smart,
really smart?

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Thank you you know, Sarah, I am too. I'm really sensitive,
And to be honest with you, I had never watched
the videos that I that are you know that you're
talking about, prior to the documentary. So there's three videos
that Luca McNaught am made of himself killing cats, and
I never watched a single one. I dumped them to

(01:06:30):
images so that I could I didn't have to watch it,
and then I would close my eyes and I would
listen to it. So I never watched it either until
the documentary. The director talked me into to watching it
for the documentary and he said it would be really
important because he wanted me to describe what was happening
because we don't actually show the videos or the act

(01:06:52):
of him killing the cats, but we do show like
the opening scenes, and that can be distressing to anybody
because you know that those little, precious baby cats are
going to be killed. So I'm going to give you
get a piece of paper. It's episode one only, and
it's at six forty five, six minutes and forty five seconds.
You're going to see me in the chair, grab a

(01:07:13):
laptop and bring it up to sit on my lap.
That's when you want to fast forward about a minute.
So six forty five, fifty three, fifty and fifty four
forty four that's it. Everything else now listen. Also even
more traumatic. I do describe the video of Luca Magnata
murdering Junlin, so if that's also a very sensitive, very sensitive,

(01:07:38):
but you can also skip that. I don't have those
time filted handy, but I do have the cat one
handy because I get us at all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
It's such a good documentary, and there is I do
wish the first little section it just seems scary, But
other than that, it's just it's part of it. You
have to be a little enraged to really invest in
making sure this person is brought to justice. But that's
a great question.

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
Qu watch something I get asked all the time, And
you guys know the Netflix, you know how now they
have like those little things up in the corner, like
warning strong language or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
It's because we don't have with cats.

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
Yeah, because people were like they didn't know what they
were turning on and there was no warning, you know,
so they were like, what the heck you know, and
they were like, so now Netflix does that because of me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Now I almost feel like there are so many trigger
alerts that I'm desensitized to them and then I get
like triggered. Oh God, buy me. But they did, you know,
they do give the trigger alert, which I think is great.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
But thank you Sarah for the talkback. Keep them coming.
We definitely come on, Sarah. We love these talkbacks because
I feel like we're really talking to people and that's
how you really do.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Bring it, bring it, bring it to another one.

Speaker 14 (01:08:46):
Okay, this is still again from Tampa. I love the
addition of Taha by the way, and Accortney, you nailed
it the dentist. Regarding dentists, do you guys know about
the case of Larry Rudo. There is a new.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Hulu docuseries about it. It's called a Trophy Wife.

Speaker 14 (01:09:05):
He and his wife went a Safari and she was murdered.
I cannot even believe the similarities between these genists, these
dopey dentists.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
No, I never it's on Hulu. Now, maybe we need
to add that very last a minute club.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
I'm very excited to hear about that. I have never
heard of since. Yeah, I didn't know it. So, wow,
you have stumped all three of us. If that was
a game.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
You know what, I think Hulu gets a bad rap.
I don't ever watch Ulu. Take that great stuff with me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
I meant, I don't know. I don't ever pay paying
for it. I'd just never watch it. Oh, they have
good stuff, you should say, they do have good stuff. Yeah,
they have a lot of good crime stuff especially, so
that's kind of that's pretty kind of juicy stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:09:50):
Do you want actually, do you want to peek into me?
I just looked at I said, what do I watch
on Hulu? And these are my continue watchings?

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Well we should all do that.

Speaker 5 (01:10:00):
Oh crazier do that below deck the movie Casino, Secret
Lives of Mormon Wives and The Victorious Secret Angels and Demons.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Those are the top things. But I was actually pretty good.
The Victoria's Secret one was pretty good. It really was.
I thought it was interesting. Also a little tangential but
worth a watch. Wow, can I tell you kind of
like a sappy story?

Speaker 12 (01:10:23):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
Please do.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Okay, So my mom passed away right after my documentary
came out and in twenty and it was she died
in twenty twenty, but it was like a few months
after my documentary came out, and a few like last year.
I think I never deleted her profile out of my Netflix.
She lived with me and I took care of her,
so she had a profile under my Netflix account. Well,

(01:10:47):
I've never deleted it. So I went into it and
the last thing she was watching was me. Oh, because
I said, continue watching this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Oh my goodness, she is sweety. This we talked about. Yes,
she's so incredibly proud of you, and yeah, we're all
sorry for the loss.

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
That's her dog in the background, by the way, Okay,
that's her saying hello, Yogi is my mom's dog. Yes,
And when she passed away, I took care I started
taking care of him. So when he barks, that's her. Yeah,
but that was a cute Continue watching my word, isn't
it sweet?

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
Though? Yes, it's unsurprising. Yea, yeah, she would be very
she is very proud of you. I should say, I know,
watching over, watching over you for sure? AnyWho, what's next?

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
You're listening to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're telling
sappy stories and I'm body moving and I'm here with
Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Lydecker and we're going through some talkbacks.
If you want to weigh in and leave us one,
we would love it. Use the iHeart Radio and just
click the little microphone up at the top right of
the screen and you'll be on the air with us.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Can we hear another one?

Speaker 8 (01:11:57):
Hey, guys, I have a quick question for you ladies
as well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Joseph Scott Morgan.

Speaker 12 (01:12:01):
I'm really interested to see your guys off on this question,
and I know it's one we may never.

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
Have any answer to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
But do you guys think that Bkay.

Speaker 12 (01:12:09):
Took the plea deal out of fear of the death
penalty or his one final attempt to morment the victims?

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Fancy?

Speaker 8 (01:12:15):
I really don't know, but I just want to see
what you guys think.

Speaker 10 (01:12:18):
A good night, Thank y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
That one was a little hard to hear.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
Yeah, so I got it, and she was also asking
The caller mentioned Joseph Scott Morgan, who joins us very
often on Sundays. He's our beloved and unbelievably well versed
forensic experts. So she had asked what we and Joseph
Scott Morgan, he's not with us night. Do we think
that b Kay took the plea deal because he wanted

(01:12:44):
to be spared the death penalty or to torment the families?

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
I totally have a strong opinion about this, but I
don't think he gives a rat, you know what about
the families. He cares solely about himself. He cares solely
about dying and being killed by a firing squad, and
he was sparing himself death row. And I think that
is as deep as it goes and back. In fact,

(01:13:09):
I think he actually likes the attention that he gets
from family members, et cetera. So I actually think it
was just, of course, to spare himself. And somewhere deep
in my heart, I want to believe that maybe he
was trying to spare his own mother or his sisters
from having to testify against him, because that's what would
have happened. We do know that the day before his sentencing,

(01:13:31):
his mother and sister went and visited him and spent
a lot of time with him, and there have been
reports from his previous you know, cellmates, like in the
area when he was being kept prior to sentencing that
a he was super annoying, but also that he was
talking on the phone with his mom all the time,
forever on the phone with his mother, and you know
what I feel for her. But at the same time,

(01:13:52):
you know those victims, they have the Chapins and the
Gonzalvez family and the Mogan family and the Kunodle family
that don't get that same luxury. Why does he have
the phone so much? Hate that phone?

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
A way, the inmate that told the press that he
was super annoying also said that Coburger got really irritated
with him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Did you on the mom? He was defensive of the
mom only he was on the phone with his mom.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
Brian Coberger was bk FBK and the inmate was watching
TV and he was like yelling at the TV like
maybe a sports was on. I can't remember what, but
he said something like shut up to the TV. And
Brian Coberger got off the phone and went over and
stuck his head through the bars and said, are you talking?

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Why are you telling her to shut up, or something
about his mom, like he was being super defensive about
his mom has a little like psycho Norman Bates thing
going on there and that dynamic. Not that she's a psycho,
because I we're all told that she's lovely, but yeah,
so like that would imply that he has some connective
tissue to his family. But I don't think that's why

(01:14:57):
he confessed. I think he is a self serving joke
and he wants to just sort of get one.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
Let's stop saying he confessed, because he didn't. All he
did was plead guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
There's such a good point, right, and I take that back,
and that is such a good point. But it's not
just you. But it's so true because he didn't confess anything.
He was just like, actually, I respectfully decline, Yeah, you
respectfully decline. What is respectful about declining the key information
that may bring some peace to family members whose lives
you've destroyed, and you're gonna respectfully decline. I would have

(01:15:32):
hauled up. I don't know what I would have done.
And I think they all handled themselves with such grace.
They really did, and I couldn't do it. I don't know.
I don't know what I would do.

Speaker 5 (01:15:40):
Yeah, and I actually disagree that. I don't even think
he did it to spare his own life. If I
actually do think, in his sadistic nature, he just wanted
to spread more torment.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Oh do you really? I do one more torment might
have been having to face the music at trial too,
which you know, with his weird affect, sitting there all day,
all night, watching forensics and watching his mother crying and sobbing,
and watching victims' families give him the evil eye and
you know, kind of make him scared. We see that
all the time. Everyone's a big man when they're going

(01:16:15):
to go kill a bunch of people, but when it
comes time to actually face the people whose lives you've destroyed,
they're like, I'll take a plea deal. Actually, I wasn't
as not guilty as I originally discussed. You know, it's
like cowardly. So this totally tracks. This was not a man.
This was a coward, and he took a cowardly way

(01:16:35):
out till the bitter end. I hope his transition in
prison is really tough right now. And I was with
Chad day Bones, I mean, two super villains side by side,
you know, Chad day Bell. If you don't know who
that is married to cult mom. Remember Lorie Valo, the
blonde who was like a running around Gallivanti and getting
married in Hawaii when her kids were missing, only to

(01:16:56):
find out that they were murdered and left in a
shallow grave by him and his psycho wife, Laurie Valo
and his ex wife and her ex husband and potentially
her brother, and the list goes on. So now these
two clowns are hanging out enough, isn't it a death row? Dato?
I don't think so, let's fine out. Let's find out out.

(01:17:19):
We're going to dig into that and listen, this night
has flown by, and yeah, let's go to a talk
back now.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
Hi, this is Susie from Buffalo, New York.

Speaker 5 (01:17:26):
I justin curious.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Can b Kay actually.

Speaker 8 (01:17:30):
Receives mail, phone calls or gifts? He shouldn't be allowed, Maddy,
Kaylee Eathton and Dana can never receive anything again.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Thank you could not agree more. I could not agree more.

Speaker 5 (01:17:42):
I don't know if there are certain stipulations that disallow that,
either in some court order or at the prison he is,
but generally you are allowed to have Yeah, all of
those things.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
Yeah, so he's going to have access to a tablet email.
He won't be able to do any dating apps.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
But no, I'm sorry, I'm just no, many of them
are that are able to access dating apps? Un fun
fact man. Yeah, although it will not be a walk
in the park. And it seems really, you know, maddening
that he has access to Wi Fi and anything. I
do think the mail does get to him. It's very

(01:18:24):
much screened though, because he is in a maximum security
prison now, so it's not a loose goose.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
And the Idaho Department of Correction does not allow conjugal visits,
So all you weirdo bride bride girls and weirdo proburgers
are not going to be able to have any contrible
visits if you decide you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Want to marry him or something. I wonder if that's
settled down now that you know everyone knows that he's
a murderer, do you think the girls are still reaching
out to him more so than ever. I'm shaking my
head because you know he started about Yeah yeah, yeah,
good lord, it's your mama. She's mad too. She's no, no, ladies,

(01:19:03):
come on, you can do better. But it's more value
for yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:19:08):
To be calling you are right, It just it does
seem so inequitable because the victims, none of those four
can get a birthday card.

Speaker 4 (01:19:17):
And I think I think that was like the you know,
Thekernodle and the Consols family's point in being so upset
about the death penalty and taken off the table is
that Brian Coberger still gets to breathe, he still gets
to eat and enjoy food. And then you communicate with people.
You know, I'm sure you know Kaylee's mom and Sanna's

(01:19:37):
dad would love to talk to their daughters one more time,
of course, with like every morsel of their body. Yeah,
but you know Brian Coberger is going to be able
to talk to his mother as we know, right, you know,
it's just it's ridiculous, It's absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
But yes, he's I mean as far as I know.

Speaker 4 (01:19:56):
When you go, if you if you google ideo C,
the Idaho Department of Corrections inmate locator, you'll be able
to you'll be presented with the unit he's in and
the address that he's in, anaphone number.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
I wonder though, because he was studying criminology, you know,
fancying himself to be a real detective vibes. You know
he was plotting and planning and stalking and doing all
these disgusting, grotesque things. And we also know that he
was sending out these surveys to inmates, asking them, Hey,
when did you know it was time to kill? What
was the character trait that you feel like needs to

(01:20:31):
be had by someone who's going to kill those types
of things? That's not verbatim. You know, there's another part
of me that fears that this guy now is in
his favorite place. Now he gets to hang out with inmates,
he gets to study them, he gets to ask them questions.
You know, you talk about Chad Dabell. If you're a
real psycho, that guy is right up your alley. Is

(01:20:53):
that justice? That's a good point. I don't know. I
don't know. Well, listen, I'm not going to be here
tomorrow and Sunday, but you guys are in such great hands.
Courtney Boddy, Jarrett Farantino, our favorite legal analyst will be
joining and on Sunday, Joseph Scott Morgan Forensics all things,
including the Coburger case. Make sure you stay with us
True Crime Tonight. Good Night