VERDICT in Karen Read Retrial, Kohberger Trial Eyes August Start, and Break-In at Slain Minnesota Rep. Melissa Hortman’s Home Under Investigation

After 22 hours over 4 days, a verdict has been reached in the retrial of Karen Read. Baudi shares an update on the Travis Decker case. Former homicide prosecutor and veteran trial attorney Jarrett Ferentino joins the show to break down key details in the cases of Karen Read, Bryan Kohberger, and Sean "Diddy" Combs. Ferentino is now a national legal analyst, true crime expert, host of the podcast True Crime Boss, and co-host of the YouTube series Primetime Crime. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk
true crime all the time. It's Wednesday, June eighteenth, and
the verdict is here. After an emotional climax in the
courtroom today, the jury has spoken in the Karen Reid retrial.
So much more on that to come. Also explosive new
developments in the John Dittycomb's trial.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Juror after juror, after juror.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Having problems and then accused college murderer Brian Colberger is
back in court for another hearing. Will his trial be delayed?
We have to get into it immediately. Karen Reid, Body,
what do you think?

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yeah, it happened. Finally we're going to be done with
Karen Reid after this, right.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Done with Karen Reid. I cannot believe miss Courtney jump
in here. I mean, we were all we were all
together live, you know, kind of hearing these results as
we were are you know, everybody was sort of on
pins and needles, and frankly, I thought it was rather emotional.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
I had friends crying, sobbing, sobbing over this. Yeah, so
it just everybody knows. Jurors today found Karen Reid not
guilty a second degree murder and manslaughter chargers in the
death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keeffe. They
did find her guilty of a super super duper lesser
charge right operating under the influence of liquor, and sentenced

(01:37):
her to one year probation and she has to take
some classes. As the verdicts were read, you could hear,
right like they when they said not especially in the background.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
But you know what's interesting, the cheering didn't occur until
the second charge was read, right, So they read charge one,
which is of course the murder too, and there was silence.
I think everybody knew that was going to be a go, Like,
there was no way she was going to get convicted
of murder.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Right, That wasn't the most controversial.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
The most controversial, I think was the second charge, the
manslaughter charge. And when the jury foreman read that verdict,
explosion outside, right, I mean you could hear from inside
the courtroom everybody outside.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, yeah, like a roar and a rosolute war, and
people were they were. It was emotional. I mean, there
was crowds in the streets of Boston. By the way,
I love Boston. They show up and they have a
feeling and they stand there in the hot sun and listen,
love her, hate her. People really do care about this

(02:39):
trial for reasons. You know, we're all kind of consumed
by it. Courtney, what was your reaction.

Speaker 5 (02:44):
Well, it was wild to me. First of all, the
fact that there was the quote fake verdict. It was
pretty you weren't watching it live, but it was staggering.
So the jury knock and said we have a verdict.
The judge went on and said they have a verdict. Oh,
hold on, just kidding.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
They don't they said they yeah, they said they had
a verdict slipped and they eat and they sealed it.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yes, isn't that interesting?

Speaker 4 (03:10):
So I guess what happened, Probably is they filled out
the form wrong.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh my goodness, right, I'm guessing.

Speaker 5 (03:15):
I mean, I'm guessing that's what makes the most sense
to me too. But in the moment, it was like,
what in the universe is this?

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, because in the moments later that they were like Okay,
we really have it now, right right? That was crazy,
it was, And I was flabbergasted by sort of the
prep and lead up of when it became known that
the verdict was very likely to come down. And outside
there was many more police officers than had been there,
and man, they were doing their jobs and keeping everyone

(03:42):
safe and blocking off the streets.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, and then it happened.

Speaker 5 (03:45):
Actually, oh my gosh, I just actually got goosebumps thinking
of you.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, we were all a little and body.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
You were too, you pins and needles, we were all
I was.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I think it's the right verdict, I really do. I
do too, even though I think there's so shenanigan's going
on with Karen Reid there, right, Listen, you can't dispute
the car backing up at twenty four mile, you just can't.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well, they're crazy.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Also, why is she being charged?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
And listen, why is she being charged retroactively even for
the driving under the influence.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
And nobody else, nobody else is I agree with that.
I agree.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
I mean that's just because she backed up doesn't mean
she's guilty, right, true, there's just some shenanigans going on,
that's all, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Like there's something there. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:26):
You often speak about your revering of the justice system,
which I am right with you. It is a lieutenant
of our country, same same, but boy, talk about reasonable
doubt and if there was ever a place, I mean
the prosecution period, this gave me faithtored. Well, it didn't
restore my faith because I've always had it, but it
definitely emboldened it.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Right, Like, this is exactly what was supposed to happen, right.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
And it's the quintessential example of I mean, look, we'll
never really know this because we don't live in Karen
Reid's head. But regardless if she did it or didn't,
I feel as though she at some point believed she did.
You know, she was confused. There was alcohol and vibe.
Everyone's like, you did it, You did it? It must be you.
You confess, you know, you get kind of brainwashed into
this mentality and then did I did a pack? Everyone's

(05:12):
you know, cotting you off at every corner. It's just
such a quintessential look at what didn't go right in
terms of the investigation. And I hope this is really
what we're all hot and bothered about, because you know,
fortunately she had a family that supported her. I love
that dad, Her father just rips my heart open. And
you know, may everybody have a parent that stands by
you like that, you know, through thicker through thin her

(05:34):
family really has been, you know, really by her side.
Sometimes people don't always get believed. If you've ever been
accused of something, you know, incorrectly and people don't believe you,
I can only imagine how terrible that must be. And
and again our hearts as always go out to victim
John O'Keeffe and his family. This is not a happy
day for them. They felt, you know, they feel a

(05:55):
bit discarded, likely and that's horrifying.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
I mean, you have people I mean I can imagine
and you know there I feel like they really think
Karen Reid is responsible, right, and you know they're there
for their their son and their you know, their friend.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
And to hear people cheering.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, sometimes they were being booed when entering the courtroom,
you know, really unfathomable. And you know, again our hearts
go with them. And who knows what happens next. I mean,
the justice system is still not done with this case.
I'm sure there will be civil lawsuits and you know
the question is is will other people be held accountable
who were there that night as well. We should bring in.

(06:31):
We have a very special guest tonight. Exciting so we do.
We have the person who actually is the guy covering
all of these cases that we're talking about tonight, specifically
Karen Reid, but also the Brian Coburger case and also Diddy.
And we also, by the way, we need to hear
from you, so please jump in join this conversation. You
do not have to agree with us. We just want

(06:51):
to hear with you. Yeah, eight eight eight three one Crime.
Please or hit us up on our socials, at True
Crime Tonight's show on Instagram, our TikTok, or at True
Crime Tonight on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
So we have Jarrett.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Farantino, who is a veteran trial attorney who's also handled
some of Pennsylvania's most high profile murder cases. He's also
now the legal analyst on we always loved this title,
the series Primetime Crime. Great show, Great show, and also
the host of the podcast True Crime Boss. And he
is here with us to kind of break down some
of the legal ease because there's a lot to unpack. Jarrett,

(07:25):
welcome to the show.

Speaker 6 (07:26):
Thank you for having me it's nice to join us.
Such a quiet true crime night, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Day in the studio today it was so funny.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
We had our afternoon call and Brian Coberger's hearing had
just started, Karen Reid's verdict was being read, and we
were literally like, we have to end this call.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
There's too much going on. We have to get off
this call.

Speaker 6 (07:49):
I got very little actual legal work done today.

Speaker 7 (07:52):
Right, yeah, all this stuff?

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Right? Well, how are you?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:56):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (07:57):
And what do you think of that?

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah? What do you think of everything today?

Speaker 7 (08:00):
Well?

Speaker 6 (08:00):
I think I'd like to just follow up on some
of what you said about Karen Reid. You know, this
verdict is really no surprise. I think if you've done
jury trials, if you've watched jury trials, you can telegraph
where a jury is headed, oftentimes by their questions. It
appeared pretty quickly that they've made their mind up on
the murder I charge, which I have since the beginning

(08:21):
felt was the total overreach in this. They were hung
up on manslaughter, which is where I think the rubber
met the road in the read case, and they were
pretty sure on the OUI charge, so we knew where
they were headed. It was just a matter of when
they were going to get there, And as you said,
there was so much emotion to go around, you know,
emotionally o'key family, exhilaration for Karen Reid. So I wasn't

(08:45):
shocked or surprised. Today, I'm glad though, as an aviad
true crimer, that this is starting to get behind us.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, that's fair. I'm sure you've been talking about it
every day the way we have been as well. What
do you think about this case, specifically Karen Reid's read
Why are we also consumed by it? Myself included? I
don't know Karen Reid. I was the weirdo that was
like a little choked up when I read this, and
when you know, I saw the O'Keefe family, you know,
exiting the courtroom. I got really emotional for them. And

(09:14):
I don't know them, but I feel very connected to
this case.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Why is it?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
I know I'm not alone in that.

Speaker 7 (09:19):
Well.

Speaker 6 (09:19):
I think the connection comes from the fact that we
see a little bit of ourselves in all of these cases.
You know, Karen Reid is a forty six year old
woman living her life, was dating John O'Keefe, who was
a police officer, so in this case, you have a
dead cop. You don't have someone in Karen Reed, that
was a career criminal who finds herself in the throes
of the criminal justice system.

Speaker 7 (09:39):
Out of nowhere.

Speaker 6 (09:40):
You know, the entire law enforcement community, the Boston Police Department,
bearing down on her.

Speaker 7 (09:46):
She's this single woman.

Speaker 6 (09:48):
So I think there was a lot of empathy for her.
You know, there were people who had strong opinions either way,
But then you had a that's understatement, the real who'd
done it?

Speaker 7 (09:58):
Who done it?

Speaker 6 (09:58):
And that's why this case to people on so many levels.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
It is true, and it was such a real look
inside the justice system. I feel like we've all learned
a lot along the way, just because we've been paying
such close attention. And you know, what do you glean
from that? I would assume you got to just, you know,
stand by the people that you love and fight to
the death, which it seems Karen Reid's family did with her.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (10:21):
I think there's there's two issues here. You know, the
question of Karen Reid is not guilty today. You know,
we may never know officially what happened. But I keep
saying about the Karen Reid case, it's death by a
thousand reasonable outcuts, like it was there was a problem
with the investigation. Michael Proctor was an embarrassment to his profession,
and I'm sorry I feel that strongly about it. But

(10:43):
here's a man who could have been a hero prosecuting
the death of a fellow officer, and he couldn't have
jumbled it up worse, okay, and that's ultimately losing his job.
And then you have Brian Higgins and Brian Albert and
nobody went into that house and it was like this
locked room murder. Miss that the ball was dropped almost
at every level. You can't expect the jury to do

(11:05):
the job for you then and put together anything beyond
a reasonable doubt. They're left with that doubt. And that's
what happened here.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
So you said, do you.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Think this might have been you know, death by a
thousand cuts of reasonable doubt? And that is such a
really good way of putting this. But do you think
there was like one piece that actually convinced the jury
to a quitter, Like, do you think there was one
storyline that was presented or you know, one thing that
was presented.

Speaker 6 (11:31):
I would have to say the toughest pill to swallow
was Michael Proctor. Yeah, in the manner of those text messages,
I would say of everything that spoke the loudest, but
that you just can't ignore the whole picture though, I
mean my right, I agree, and the fact that the
scene was compromised. You know, no one went into that
Albert house like you know. I believe Jennifer McCabe to

(11:54):
a great extent.

Speaker 7 (11:55):
I think that.

Speaker 6 (11:56):
But at the same time, you can't build your case
on one witness. So but I would say Proctor probably,
he probably jumped out the farthest at me, is creating
the most issues in the case.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
I still can't get over Higgins in the phone, like
destroying his phone. I can't get over that.

Speaker 7 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean in.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Vernon Sallyport video. What are they doing like that?

Speaker 7 (12:18):
It's great all of those things. Look at what we're
talking about.

Speaker 6 (12:21):
We're talking about detailed pieces of evidence that should have
been no brainers and things that really had nothing to
do with Karen Reid. And it's this conduct.

Speaker 5 (12:30):
I know you will be joining us after the break,
thank goodness, because we are just getting started. And listen,
keep it here on True Crime tonight. We are talking
about big things in the Brian Coburger case, also in
the Sean dite Combs case, and the latest and the
manhunt for Travis Decker True crime tonight, all.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Of America right now was talking about the retrial of
Karen Reid, and the verdict is in. If you haven't
been listening, she has been found not guilty on most
of the counts except of course, for the OUI under
the influence. So you know, people are very divided about
this one. So hello, Jared, are you still there?

Speaker 7 (13:16):
I'm still here. How are you?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I feel like I'm a little like hopped up. So
I feel like I'm screaming right now, and I take
it down a not. I feel exhausted from this day.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
It's court. It's a lot of endorphin release. You know.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
I don't know what I feel.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
Just Stephanie, you were feeling, you were feeling so anxious
for Karen Reid right now and now it's like over now.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I feel anxious for Peggy O'Keefe. Now I feel anxious
for the O'Keefe family. Are they ever going to find justice?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Jared?

Speaker 6 (13:45):
Well, you know the next step in this process is
the civil trial. And I know, Stephane, I think you
mentioned it earlier. I'm predicting those are going to get resolved.
I think everyone has seen too much of a courtroom
at this point. But that's the next step in this process.
Not unlike the OJ case. If you remember, OJ was
acquitted of the murders of Long Bowman and Nicole Simpson,

(14:07):
and they found their way into a civil court room
where he was found liable. Right.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
So when you say resolved, Derek, do you think that,
like resolved in the same capacity, that she'll also be
found not guilty or do you have a prediction?

Speaker 7 (14:22):
No.

Speaker 6 (14:22):
I think when you're in the civil realm, you're talking
about insurance coverage and insurance policies for the bars and
for Karen Reid, I think that the carriers will likely
resolve the claims rather than face court because really that's
what you're looking at in a civil case.

Speaker 8 (14:37):
It's money damages, right, right, and the bar and the
bar is lower for civil cases, right like there's no
right the bar of evidence basically against Karen Reid would
be lower and be put on you know, like the
establishment she visited, she was overserved, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
Et cetera, right like correct, and the standard is in
criminal as we all know at this point, is beyond
a reasonable doubt and civil it's slightly lower ponderance of
the evidence that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
And what do you think about any charges? You know, again,
Karen Reid wasn't the only one who was driving under
the influence that night. Is there a universe where retroactively
others who were in that house or at the party before,
at the Waterfall bar, or who went to the after
hours again not assigning guilt, just a question, will they
potentially also be charged?

Speaker 7 (15:25):
I wouldn't hold my breath.

Speaker 6 (15:27):
I think everybody wants to move on from that snowy night,
right now.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yeah, that's fair, That's totally fair. I mean, it's just
difficult for the family. But you get that better than anybody.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Is it fair? Well, it's just like I think this is.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
A real conversation just about overreach, right, and like, how
if an incredible law enforcement officer is found dead, isn't
it just by baseline a conflict of interest for the
people that were there to be covering the trial, you know,
covering the case in the first place. In the movies,
I feel like they would get dismissed because it's you know,
too close or they were there and they know the

(16:00):
victim and they know they accused. It's like a conflict
of interests, Right, how did that get So that's.

Speaker 7 (16:05):
A great point.

Speaker 6 (16:06):
That has a great point, and that's what created a
lot of issues here. I think, as horrible as I
feel for the O'Keefe family here, they have to have
some anger for Albert and Higgins. I'm sure, yes, come on,
you know, as much as you want to blame Karen Reid,
if Karen Reid was truly responsible, the ball got dropped

(16:27):
by the investigators by.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
His best friends girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
It's his best buds, and you know, that's just such
a foul ball and just the idea in general of
their not being more of an independent oversight. Right, This
is like a little small example of things that probably
happen in so many parts of the country with people
who don't have access to the best lawyers.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
People.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
She had an incredible defense term, you know, or Turtle
Boy the online journalist to you know, crack the case open.
That's not how the justice system has to.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
Work, right, So how does the man this is the
way the justice system has to work. This is going
to be such a skewed and unfair justice system for
the rest of us, because not everybody is as attractive
and thin and you know whatever as Karen Reid, right,
and is that what it is?

Speaker 3 (17:16):
I'm sorry, but a lot of this.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Can you know, be attributed to Listen, this is the
single woman, like you said, oh my god, poor Karen Reid.
Would they be saying that if it was a young
black man, I.

Speaker 6 (17:27):
Don't think that resource.

Speaker 7 (17:29):
A lot of times that.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Don't have the resources. So how unfair is this becoming?

Speaker 6 (17:34):
Very well? And that's that's one of the things that
if there's anything that could be gained from this, look
at the system, look.

Speaker 7 (17:41):
At what the band is. Just somebody with the team.

Speaker 6 (17:44):
And believe me, as much as I'm bashing the investigators here,
the defense attorneys did a fantastic.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Oh they were cabulous.

Speaker 6 (17:51):
They absolutely came in with an all star team, you know.
But but I have to say this, some of the
public defenders I've gone up against in my career and
had the pleasure and honor of working with have been fantastic.
I don't mean to paint with a broad brush here,
but you're right, A typical indigent defendant like Brian Kolberger,
even don't have access to the resources that Karen Reid had,

(18:14):
and that's something we could We're going to discuss a
little bit later, but that's the reality of our justice system.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Unfortunately, that's absolutely right.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
As we're watching the verdict at the same time, literally
the same moments the Brian Coberger hearing.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Starts, we were having a heart attack and I'm like,
I can't. I'm like, what do I do?

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Like too much?

Speaker 4 (18:36):
I had Karen read on my tablet and on my laptop.
I had the Brian Coberger hearing, which, by the way,
was a snooze fest. I must say, Okay, it was.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
It was so boring. I was like, oh my gosh,
is this almost over?

Speaker 4 (18:47):
But the Karen Reid was on my laptop and I
could hear the screams and everything, and I could just
you know, see Brian Coberger, how do you think that
went today?

Speaker 6 (18:54):
The hearing in Coburger, Well, it went as expected. It
was a lot of legal aids. That's why people don't
like lawyers. But really the outcome of the.

Speaker 7 (19:01):
Colborger hearing was what people were looking for. Is the
trial going to.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
Get delayed or is it not going to get delayed?

Speaker 7 (19:06):
I do not think the trial is going to get delayed.

Speaker 6 (19:08):
I didn't think it was going to get delayed. Going
into today's proceeding, Judge Hitler made it very clear you
all need to get ready for trial.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
But some of those that don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Today was the motion for continuance hearing and the continuance
heering is listen, we were not ready. We need more time.
And some of the reasons they stated is quickly want
to go over it. For those that don't know what
the dateline leak was one of them. This investigation they
have to do into Brian Coberger's history. They gave like

(19:37):
a list of reasons why they need this delay and
at the end of the you know, judge, the judge
listened to everything. He said, I'll consider your request, but
he indicated that the trial will likely proceed as scheduled.
And that was the That was the headline for this Right,
it's probably going to go ahead as scheduled.

Speaker 6 (19:56):
Right, it is and real challenge here and and Taylor,
she did a fine job in pleading her case. Where
it seems like they're having difficulty is she always says
the same things, the twenty eight terabytes of information and everything,
but she's really hitting the mitigation piece. There's two phases
of this trial. If he's convicted, you go into the
death penalty phase, and when you present that case, you're

(20:18):
fighting for your client's life. They need to recreate and
reverse engineer Brian Colberger's life. They're saying they've encountered some roadblocks,
they're not ready to quite do that yet. Prosecution saying,
we have a whole chart of information they already gave
us at every level of the mitigation phase. They're ready
to go. It's not going to be a sports the

(20:39):
Earth approach to telling the life story of Brian Colberger,
which they were right.

Speaker 7 (20:44):
I agree.

Speaker 6 (20:44):
I've done death penalty cases. I thought Josh Hewitt was
spot on in that.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
All the same here, and Ann Taylor is a public
defender and she's wonderful. She's a great lawyer. Right, you
just gave some examples.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
You were like, I've had the pleasure and honor to
work with a lot of public defenders who are wonderful,
and I would Ann Taylor would be probably at one
of the tops of those lists. She's death penalty certified, right,
she knows what she's doing. She is I am I'm honestly,
so glad that she is available to Brian Coberger because
I want him to get a fair trial so that
if he is convicted, I feel good like it gives

(21:17):
me the warm and fuzzies because it's you know, all
about me all of a sudden, but you know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Know it's justice though, but always just knowing that the
right person is she's a great lawyer, doing the time
for the crime, and that not getting pushed that's a
very big deal, you know. Of course, the families we
have to assume are really just you know, over this
delay and another delay and another delay. So hearing that
it's looking like the trial won't move is very reassuring,

(21:43):
I'm sure for them.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
For people who don't know who Brian Coburger is off
the top of their head, he is the man the
criminology student who is accused of murdering the four students
from the University of Idaho. Jared I had a question,
what do you think about the all suspect argument that
the defense is putting up in Brian Colberger's case.

Speaker 6 (22:05):
To that argument, I say, good luck looking at all
the evidence against mister Colberger. So the alternate suspect claim
would be this. They have to show those their two
proceedings today. The open proceeding was the motion for continuance.
The second proceeding was closed to the public. We don't
know what happened, but it was about the defense's position

(22:25):
that they have a legitimate theory to put forth that
an alternate person committed this crime, and they gleaned this
information from the tiff, the thousands of tips that came
in and that are part of the case file. Now
we don't know what those alternate suspects are. All I
could say is I've been looking at this case like
all of you have since day one. I don't know where.

(22:47):
If you're on Mars, you know it's Fi all intentsive purposes,
it's Colberger. It doesn't look good for him. Where are
you getting this third person? I don't know the person
on the grassy knoll.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
As we say, it does seem like we would have
heard about this a little bit sooner. And this is
stuff And obviously I listen, I'm kind of the last
man standing on like public trials, like, I don't love it.
I don't love the public seeing stuff before it goes
to court, and leaks and things like that I don't
think it's fair. You know, if you're going to go
for a death sentence trial, you know he should get

(23:17):
a fair one. To Courtney's point, however, you know, even
for me, I'm getting shocked on a daily basis about
what is being put out there is not looking very
good and is that fair? I don't know, but it
is true. I want to talk to you about the
door dash information also that recently was released.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yeah, we're going to talk about that in the next segment,
but stay tuned. Coming up, we have the ongoing manhunt
for the fugitive dad Travis Decker. There's been a new
release of what he might look like and it's pretty alarming.
A break in at the house of the slain Minnesota lawmaker.
Really crazy and it's what we're watching Wednesday. Stick with
us to find out what us true crime documentaries are

(23:54):
making our headspin. Keep it right here on True Crime
to Night. Jared, So you were you were a prosecutor,
right so, as a prosecutor who was pretty successful, I
might add, what do you think the biggest mistake the

(24:16):
Commonwealth made in the retrial? Knowing everything that all the
mistakes they made in the first trial, right, going into
this again with the same theory, the same presentation, was
that their biggest misstep or was it something else?

Speaker 6 (24:32):
Problem is, that's a great question. The problem is they're stuck.
They're stuck with their case. They're stuck with much of
the testimony of the first trial. The way they changed
their cases. They had their own biomechanical engineer this time.
If you remember, in the first trial, they had Trooper Paul,
who was woefully underqualified when compared to the arc of
Bois and everybody else. So they beefed up their expertise

(24:55):
a little bit. But really they're stuck with their theory.
They believed this case went down this way, and that's
why they retried it that way. Their witnesses, if they
changed their stories, they would have been lying in trial
to or lied in trial I, and that testimony would
have come back to hurt them. So you're kind of
stuck with your theory.

Speaker 9 (25:14):
You know.

Speaker 6 (25:14):
I don't think there was much they can do beyond
try to deef up that expertise. And they brought in
Hank Brennan, who was not the lead in the first case.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
That's right, right.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
I have kind of a follow up to that, what
do you think about the fact that the jury again
and thankfully we have come to a conclusion in this one,
but that again there was confusion about the verdict slip
having been through the first time. Do you feel like
that's a lesson that should have been learned.

Speaker 6 (25:40):
Well, So the Judge Bev was very committed to a
vanilla verdict slip that's dictated to her by the state. Okay,
there's two types of vertict slips. You could have a
verdict slipt that is essentially a script that the state
gives you and these crimes are charged, these are the
questions that are asked. You can also add for jury

(26:00):
instructions or verdict s flips style instructions from the parties
that you can kind of massage information or facts of
the case into the verdict slip to make it a
little bit more digestible. Judge Bev was not moving on
that verdict slip. She was concerned any change would create
an issue for appeal. But it is confusing, it's confusing

(26:21):
to lawyers, and it is certainly confusing to lay people
on the jury.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
Thank you for explaining the ration now behind it, because
I couldn't on Monday when the jurors had a question
and her answer was something like figure it out, you're fine,
and then later then amended the slip or added something.
But it makes sense that she just, I guess, wanted
to stick with the commonwealth, and that rational makes sense too.

Speaker 6 (26:45):
Actually, and she's very limited. The judge is very limited
on what she can answer to jury questions. That always
sounds like a high handed appro like you know, vix
is a part of the case is over. The jury's
out and they come back with a question, and the
judges have to be very guarded in what they say.
They cannot be perceived as invading the province of the

(27:06):
jury or impacting their deliberations in any way. So very
typical in common questions all juries have go unanswered. Unfortunately, Really,
why didn't realize that?

Speaker 4 (27:16):
I completely understood her saying that she couldn't you know,
it was a theoretical question because like, of course, the
jury should not have to worry about the consequences of
their verdict, right, And so I understood that, you know,
I understood. But when they asked the question about the times,
like was it twelve forty five or five? And she responded,
and then she said, you have all the evidence figured
it out. I was a little surprised that.

Speaker 6 (27:38):
She said, well again, and if the prosecution charged it
a certain way, they would say she was oh ui
at five am or at midnight, it would have been
clarified in the charge.

Speaker 7 (27:48):
So I didn't necessarily agree with that particularly.

Speaker 6 (27:51):
Yeah, answer the other thing she said, don't concern yourself
with the consequences. That's a sentencing question. They weren't concerned
with the consequences of their decision. They were saying, Judge,
if we see she's guilty, Oh, why is she necessarily
guilty of the secretary murder?

Speaker 7 (28:05):
That's not a consequence question.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
Well, I think they were worried. I thought they were
worried about a hung it being hung. I thought that,
you know, they they didn't want to be hung. I
thought that's what they were saying.

Speaker 6 (28:16):
We were saying, is if she's guilty of one count,
does it make her guilty of all? Is that a
consequence of our our finding her guilty? Even if they
were worried about her being being hung, it's still not
a consequence question in my opinion. Consequences if we find
her guilty of second, what's her sentence? That's not something
a jury would think about.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
So I had another question.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
So we talked about, you know, the Karen Reid side
or kind of no one wanting to see the inside
of another courtroom. And I think you said that well,
and I think that's probably true. Will the Commonwealth do
you envision that they'll be facing any pressure because this
still will be an unsolved death of a fallen police officer.
Is there pressure to find someone else?

Speaker 7 (29:00):
You know?

Speaker 6 (29:00):
I think in their mind they found who was responsible,
and I think you know, they lost it. You know,
they lost the game. And that's not to simplify this,
but that is what they believed happened to John O'Keefe.
They failed to prove it as a result of their
own failures in this investigation. So to come back now,
and then your question, I would think, is do we

(29:23):
now look at Albert? Do we now look at Higgins?
Was this a possibility? A prosecution on that footing would
have zero credibility? I agree, couldn't come forward, you know,
you know, in a perfect world where they get a
second bite at the apple to.

Speaker 7 (29:36):
Pursue a theory that may be more approvable.

Speaker 6 (29:38):
Who knows, but quite honestly, they died on the hill
that it was Karen Reid.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, they We have a.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Really hard time convincing a Jerry. Hey.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
You know, for the last four years or whatever, two years,
we've been saying it's been Karen Reed, but now, okay, no,
it's not.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
It's this person, right.

Speaker 6 (29:53):
Exactly, absent some huge piece of evidence coming out pushing
them in a totally different trajectory.

Speaker 7 (30:00):
Can't see that.

Speaker 6 (30:00):
Happening, right right?

Speaker 4 (30:02):
If there was, yeah, a big piece of evidence would
convince me for sure, you know, but there isn't any.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
I mean, they didn't even go in the house.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
They're not going to get any evidence, right, So, yeah,
they're not gonna they're not gonna be able to reprosecute this.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
And what about Turtle Boy.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
You know, Turtle Boy, for anyone who's been following this
case closely, is a journalist and a blogger. I think
he was a former high school history teacher or something.
And you know, it's being talked about quite actively that
this is the person that really shed light on this
case and really started pushing out material that showed this
little crack in the system potentially in law enforcement. Is

(30:37):
that a good thing? Was that a distractor. Do you
have an opinion on that. Well, also, it's very controversial.

Speaker 6 (30:42):
I know it is. And I think Turtle Boy's name
is Aiden Tierney, and he kind of rose to fame
in this thing. And I think there were times he
thought he was part of the defense team. They didn't
need him, there were some great lawyers. But in the meantime,
he did shine light on it. He believed in his
heart this was an just she was wrongfully accused. That's
why there were groups of people protesting and out there

(31:06):
in support of Karen Reid every day because people like
Aiden brought this out. So you know, look, who can
blame the guy for shining a light on what he
believed was an injustice and it turned out to be
that in the eyes of a jury. So but at
the same time, people like that. Now he finds himself.

Speaker 7 (31:22):
Accused of witness intimidation.

Speaker 6 (31:24):
Now he's facing criminal charges.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
So mean I rose, Yeah, I was reading that. You know,
two things that I thought were interesting in my research
was that she had, you know, Turtle Boy or you know,
Aiden had made about one hundred and eighty nine phone
calls to Karen Reid, you know, during a trial. I
don't know if that's a bad thing or is that illegal?
And what kind of intimidation is he being accused of.

Speaker 6 (31:47):
Well, he's being accused of statements that he made online.
I believe statements that he made online causing harassment and
intimidation of people in the case when they testify, when
they were going to testify. And look, that's a bridge
too far. You know, you've got to understand. If you
want to show your support, you want to get the
story out, fine, but if you're coloring the testimony of

(32:10):
actual witnesses based on threatening behavior or you know, dotting
people online, that's a whole different deal. And he's going
to face consequences potentially for that.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Well didn't he already have his hearing and he was
found not.

Speaker 6 (32:21):
Guilty but he was I think he's still facing another charge.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Of Oh yeah, and I think he was found guilty
not guilty on something, and I think there might be
some other loose ends.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
I haven't kept up with that arm of this case,
so I wasn't sure.

Speaker 7 (32:36):
That's a side show of the case.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Right, it's like another arm, right, But I mean I think, listen,
I think without turtle Boy, though I don't know that
Karen would have been able to do all this fundraising,
because really, Turtle Boy is the kind of the guy
that rang those alarm bells and got people kind of
riled up. Like this case online, it's difficult to discuss
because you get attacked no matter what you say. If

(32:59):
you're a free Karen person, you get attacked by people
who think she's guilty. If you're a guilty Karen Read person,
you get attacked by free Karen Read. You cannot discuss
this case without getting attacked. And I think it's incredibly divisive.
And I think without that though, because it's gotten people
really entrenched in their camps and they have to see

(33:19):
things through right like they're digging their heels in. And
without Turtle Boy, I don't know if that any of
that would have happened. So kudos to him for getting
people really invested in this case.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Just in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Yeah, here here, I know it's complicated stuff. You know,
we don't want to be influencing trials, but at the
same time, it's really important for us to be talking
about this stuff because how do you know how to
keep yourself safe in the world or what to look
for in sticky situations If we don't unpack the justice system.
So we're so grateful you're here. Yeah, Jar, are you
going to stick with us and talk a little bit
more about ditty as well, because talk about jurors and

(33:52):
you know, another explosive day in court there, and I
feel like we still also only glossed over the hearing
today a little bit with Brian Coberger and the implications
of this door dash video. It all kind of beads itself.
It's been a wild day of court reporting and we're
just so glad to have have you here to unpack
it with us.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
Yeah, and the clarity you've offered has really You've answered
a lot of questions that we've all had in the
back of our brains.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
I know, we only have you on borrow time, so
we want to jump right in jurors. What is happening
to all of these jurors in the Sean Diddy Koms trial.

Speaker 6 (34:26):
This would drive me crazy as a prosecutor, just so
you know, you get so far you're worried about what
you're going to say, what the defense is going to say,
what the judge is going to do, and all of
a sudden, the juris are giving you the jurors are
giving you headaches in that courtroom. So two big developments
this week. We lost a juror who was accused of
misrepresenting his residency. The second today was shut down because

(34:51):
the juror had vertigo, and so today's proceedings were canceled
as a result of that. So you have two actions
of jurors causing significant delay and significant changes as the
case moves forward.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
And it seems a little fishy again. I'm I'm going
a little bit on the crazy side here, So go
with me, steer me back in. It seems like it
is impossible for me to imagine that on the eve
of one of the largest witnesses in this trial that
probably can really speak the most to racketeering and innefarious
behavior behind closed doors on Ditty's dime, is this next

(35:28):
witness who you know is said to be his mule
and has you know, knows where all the stuff is
and has been a part of all the shenanigans. He's
also got an immunity. This probably is a witness that
if you're if you're a Ditty's camp, you don't want
this person to speak. Isn't it strange that all of
the jurors are hitting hard times.

Speaker 6 (35:47):
Well, you know, it's a good question.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
I don't know that you can even answer it, but who.

Speaker 6 (35:52):
It is strange, But at the same time, you know,
when the trials go on like this, I mean it's
day twenty six, it's the odds of having an issue
are pretty good. Like you have twelve lay people ripped
out of their lives twenty six days.

Speaker 7 (36:06):
I mean, the key witness.

Speaker 6 (36:07):
Again, there are some big witnesses coming.

Speaker 7 (36:09):
Up, no doubt, but Cassie was the big witness here
and she's.

Speaker 6 (36:12):
Done and she was on there for several days.

Speaker 7 (36:15):
So I don't know.

Speaker 6 (36:16):
I mean, I get the conspiracy theory and the concern,
but I do think as you go along in these trials,
these things do happen.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
I would hate to be a juror, and I just
feel like it's unsafe for these jurors to be kind
of not anonymous. It's amazing to me that we don't
have jurors that are, like, I don't know, in a
dark room where no one can see them. It's very
dangerous stuff and they're really putting themselves out there. So
and same for the witnesses.

Speaker 7 (36:41):
It's been a tough year. A couple of years for juriso.

Speaker 6 (36:43):
If you remember the Alec Murdoch case that the jury
was talking to the clerk and there was an issue
there that could have paused issues on the appeal. It's like,
it's jurorsy. This is the year of jurors behaving badly.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I think that could be a show that to be
a show.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
By the way, it's old man, Jared, you heard it
right here, You're the star of that show.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Are you available? We start shooting, You're we're shooting sider. No,
you're just the boss of it and you're telling him
what's up. But yeah, that's really it's true. It has been.
Juror's gone wild a bit.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
KK.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
Do you think she's turned state's evidence. What do you
think about the kind of shroud of mystery that it
kind of seems like take us under?

Speaker 6 (37:23):
The only the only thing I would I could think
is everybody else has gone that way in this case.

Speaker 7 (37:28):
So far.

Speaker 6 (37:29):
I'm anticipating that she's going to have some damning information
in the case. No doubt whether even if, even if
she's trying to protect him, there's documentary evidence that could
potentially hurt him. In the rico charge, business records, information,
things that are innocuous that could feed into the fact
that this was an ongoing business, a bad boy transaction
where they rented a car, the transported Cassie to a hotel,

(37:52):
a bill that was paid. She can't point the finger
at Diddy and implicate him with pretty innocuous stuff. That's
something the cake can do here, h.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
We will see well listen. Thank you so much for
joining us. Jared Farantino, You are a wealthy knowledge. Please
tune in to Jared's YouTube series Primetime Crime and his podcast.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
True Crime Boss. Wherever you get your podcast, keep it here.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Karen Reid retrial verdict. She's been found not guilty of
two of the three charges she was found guilty on OUI,
driving under the influence, and other than that. She goes
home tonight and this mess for her is over. But
first we have a talk back, so let's go straight
to that.

Speaker 10 (38:44):
Hey, am I the only one who thinks it's suspicious
that within hours of Karen Reid being acquitted of everything
but a DUI, that the whole House Party gang issued
a joint statement about them being upset with the verdict.

Speaker 7 (38:55):
That seems crazy to me, you know.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
By the way I had a scene reaction, did you know?

Speaker 6 (39:01):
I did?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
I did. I'm not I again, I don't even know
where I feel on this, but I was surprised that
people who had been brought under suspicion during this time,
you know, who had obviously not been a huge help
in this investigation at the bare minimum, that they went
out and put out a statement. I was confused by it.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
I didn't take it that way.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
I took it that they were his colleagues and friends,
and you know, basically, I thought, from my opinion, they
were like, well, I guess they bought the idea that
we are somehow responsible, you know, like, I'm not happy
about that, and I'm also not happy my friend and
colleague is not getting justice for his you know, killing. HM.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
That's how I took it.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
I'm so glad you asked, because on the one hand,
I did not think it was that strange that there
was a statement that was sort of ready to go out.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
It came from a communication firm.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
So it was probably packaged up, but the content of
it was very startling. It began makes sense quoting today.
Our hearts are with John and the entire O'Keeffe family.
They have suffered so much and deserve better from our
justice system. I think everyone could agree it with that totally.
Here's my huge question. It goes on to say, well,

(40:10):
we may have more to say in the future. We
are morning with John's family and lament the cruel reality
that this prosecution was infected by lies and conspiracy theories
spread by Karen Reid, her defense team and some in
the media. So they're saying the prosecution was infected by lies.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
No, I think they're just saying the whole the case itself, right,
like the prosecution of Karen Reid has been infected, not
I don't be.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Infected by their poor work.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I agree, that's what read.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
That's like, I mean, honestly, kay, I see you break.
You're a part of the reason that this infection has happened.
And also, if I'm a cop, by the way, it's
such a hard gig. People go out there. They they're underpaid.
They're putting on uniforms to defend us and keep us
all safe. That is, enlarge, how it should be, and
is until like Stink was like this make it confusing

(41:02):
for all of us, And I think that is a
very strange statement.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Courtney to your point.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
But although, body, I really appreciate that your understanding, because
that honestly makes a lot of no sense.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I it blew my mind. I read it seven times. Oh,
I mean I could be wrong.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
I just but I read it as like the prosecution
of Karen Reid, not like the Commonwealth process, right like
just like the trial itself.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Not But I could be I could be taking it wrong. No,
that okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. I just didn't.
I mean, for me, I didn't.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
I kind of expected one from the o'kee family, you know,
but maybe they did. Maybe they need to get their bearings,
and maybe just now is not the right time. But
I kind of expected one from them, and I didn't
see one yet, and so I did think it was
inappropriate for his you know, those people that were in
the house to make one before the Oke family.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
That's the only criticism I have you.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Why not just keep it a little quiet, you know,
just you know, everybody respectfully, just good respect right, right?

Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah, I guess I again I have to take it
down a notch.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I'm feeling so.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Barred, are you still feeling?

Speaker 2 (42:06):
I don't know what's wrong with me? So please do
you tell me, like anxious one crime, and please tell
me what's wrong.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
My friends, if you're anything like my friends, they're feeling
it too. Stuff like it's crazy, I'm telling you, sobbing.
They were sobbing, they were so happy, and like my
one friend got flowers sent to her, you know, like
it's it's it's a thing. It's like people are really
feeling this, and I think it's just been such a
long build up, right, I mean two years, right, yeah,

(42:35):
it has been. I feel this way after Delphi. After Delphi,
I cried because it was seven years a build up.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
By the way, I to do a very deep dive
on the Delphi murderers, you know, like that is something
that those girls also need a proper unpacked because I
know it's so close to your heart. And then also, frankly,
Diddy has gotten me all bothered and crazy and incensed
a little bit too. It just seems like here we
are at such a pivotal point in this trial now
we're having all these shenanigans with the jurors. Does make

(43:02):
sense though, what Jarrett was just telling us about. You know,
it's been a long time. People get sick, you know,
we know Diddy was six last week. You know, it's
a fatiguing process, but it just makes me concerned about
witnesses coming forward. Imagine. I mean, now we're hearing that
the freak Off videos are being shared as an exhibit
in court, and you know, we've heard so much about these,

(43:23):
but the jurors are now seeing the video for themselves,
and you know, that's a big chunk and a lot
to take in. Not that I'm making a comparison to
murder photos, but you know, Courtney, we've all been to
trials and sometimes you wish you could unsee something because
it's just it's too graphic. And in this case, the
jurors were given headsets, and you know, of course everyone's
trying to be respectful of what they're watching. This is

(43:45):
somebody's life and somebody's maybe worst day. We're seeing it
in action, and maybe that is enough to cause some vertigo.
I don't know. I just it's all seeming so intense,
and to be truthful, I feel bamboozled by Diddy too.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I was a fan.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
I was some who really did enjoy his music, and
now I see this stuff and I hear this stuff
in it.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
It makes me sad. Yeah, I have a question. Do
we know so we know about the juror.

Speaker 5 (44:10):
We spoke about the juror who was replaced number sixty trial, Okay,
we know about today number three with vertigo, Okay, number two.
Did that come to conclusion that's the jury.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
The court was gone today, so we don't really have
too too much info. They cut it quits because of
the vertigo juror two. You know, I don't know what
their number is. It's just another juror, another juror. Yeah,
so Juror number six specifically had been released from this
trial because they were being a little confusing about there
where they lived. And then there was another juror who

(44:41):
had received a text from an anonymous person basically inquiring
if they were juror number six, and then that juror,
the second one, shared that with you know, the judge,
and that had some kickback. Does that mean that maybe
this particular juror was talking to others, which of course
you're not supposed to do in a high profile or
any case little in a high profile one. Is that

(45:02):
what that means? Or are they getting a text because
somehow they're not as anonymous anymore and that is threatening
who knows well.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
I can't wait to see how that unfolds. I'm going
to take this moment to take a pause on all
the trial insanity that has ensued, and here is some
other news that is equally as important. Travis Decker. He
is the man who is accused of murdering his three
young daughters, all under ten years old. There's been a
massive manhunt for him, and it.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Reached three weeks.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Today, the Shelanne County Sheriff's Office in Washington State released
a flyer showing digitally altered images of Travis Decker's possible
current appearance. It was really interesting to see, because boy,
changing your facial hair, shaving your hair, having long hair
can make you look like totally different.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Peoples, different in every Yeah, pretty unrecognizable in fact, I
mean it's pretty shocking.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
I tweeted it out.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Because I was like, oh my gosh, this doesn't even
look like the guy that I think I'm looking for.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
So that was a great call that they've done this.

Speaker 5 (46:08):
Obviously, they are the cream of the crop in terms
of prose, and let us hope that this manhunt comes
to a close soon.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
It's a tough one too. Yeah, this is such a
tough one because you know, the mom was reaching out
and looking for some help. So how do we go
from here? I mean, the custody situation was obviously very
difficult between mom and dad. Mom reached out and said
that she had concerns about dad having these overnights because
he had been displaced in his homeless and had been

(46:36):
suffering with some mental health issues. And by the way,
this is somebody who was diagnosed, you know, with something
very serious borderline personality disorder treatable.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Of course, this is not a stain on him.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
He served our country, He served in Afghanistan, he came home,
he was suffering from PTSD based on combat related stuff.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
So this guy like he was actually looking for help too,
and it had been identified, but it was hard to
keep him on a program and mom raised her hand.
But at the same time, of course, the courts want
their dad to be able to spend time with them.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
It's a tough thing.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
It's just like the worst ending to a very common problem.

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Yeah, and there's court audio that we're going to get
to later in this week. That's Travis Decker's own words.
But in other breaking news, body.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Share what you have.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
Yeah, so you guys know about the politicians that were
gunned down, assassinated basically in Minnesota. Well, last night, an
apparent break in occurred at house Representative Melissa Hortman's home.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Isn't that? I mean somebody walk into.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
This home's no, somebody seems to have broken into it
and was looking for something, because it seems that nothing
was taken nothing, So were they casing the place or
what was the story with that?

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I just can't help but feel like something else is
going on. And I'm I am not a conspiracy person.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
You sound like me right now.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
I know you're working off on me.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
No, we don't want that. We don't want that you're
opening yes, No, but it is seems doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Seem like something else is going on here.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Yes, they took the plywood off of the home, you know,
because the cops, because they basically busted in the door, right,
they took all the plywood off and broke into this
woman's home, this woman who was gunned down with her
dog and her husband, and they nothing's been taken.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Nothing's been taken.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
And you know, obviously the police had to go there
again and do another search and make sure they sweep
the house, and by you know, all accounts, at this moment,
nothing was stolen, and it looks as though somebody was
looking for something, and in the reports that I read
that they were it looked like it had just been
gone through, but there was nothing missing. And yeah, that
of course raises everybody's alarms. What were they looking for?

Speaker 7 (48:52):
Right?

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Well, authorities put a police trailer camera kind of situation
at the front of the house, but somebody pried off
the plywood cover in the rear window and broke the
glass again inside, so they went to the back of
the house.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Oh my god, why would you do that?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
It's an active crime scene too. So again, if you're
just looking to be nefarious and steal some jewelry because
you know that there's been something, you know that happened there,
and maybe the house is empty because it's boarded up,
you wouldn't.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Do that if you know that they're looking at this house.
It's a highly covered case. And how do they know
they didn't take the jewelry? Like, how do they know
every ring and necklace she had?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yeah, that's true, that's a very good point.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
I don't know how do they know that I don't know.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
I mean I would know if I went into my
mom's house or if I was a family member, you know,
I would know what to be looking for a little bit.
Chances are you guys could roll through my place and
know aha, you know, like not that there's you know,
fine jewelry and you know artwork to be stealing. But
you know, I think you would be a good source.
So that is a it's a question mark.

Speaker 5 (49:47):
And we actually have I believe we have a call
on the line right now, Denise.

Speaker 9 (49:53):
Hi.

Speaker 11 (49:53):
I'm so glad to that you guys are having me on.
I appreciate it, of course, so I'm called, Oh, thank you,
I'm calling. Could talk about Diddy. I heard that the
trial didn't actually happen today because one of the jurors
was sick, and I guess they were sick with vertigo,
and they found out that the the I guess the
judge found out because his wife called to let him know.

(50:15):
So it was really interesting for me because I was
shocked to recognize that the judge would allow such a
high profile case to have the jury not be sequestered
because because I guess you said it was unnecessary and burdensome,
so I guess my question is how how common is

(50:37):
a is it for a high potile case like this
to have the jurors not be sequestered? And is it
really realistic to think that they're not gonna or are
they're going to be able to avoid any media coverage
or discussions about the trial.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I thought, you're not human? And you know, Venise, that
is such a good observation. It hadn't even occurred to me.
I actually read that too, that his wife called him
in this jur with the vertigo, because vertigo is no joke.
It's very you know, debilitating. But yeah, how would she
know what to do and who to call if she
didn't know, oh, that he was doing. Yeah, that's, you know,

(51:14):
we great question.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
We were talking about this specific thing a few nights
ago and I got nosy.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
I'm a nosy girl. I can't help it.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
And I looked it up, like, why isn't the Diddy
jury sequestered? Because I think it's a big deal too.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Like dangerous.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
Well, if somebody's being accused of racketeering, I automatically think
mafia boss, you know things like that, right, And so
I automatically think because of that, it's dangerous. So I'm like,
why isn't this jury sequestered? And I read that it's
really really rare for federal juries to be sequestered.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
I wonder why.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
I don't that that I couldn't find out. I wish
it's probably is it the money? I was going to
think about the hotel stays? You got to go away
from your job. I mean, what a drag to be sequestered, right, so,
no question, you're being trapped in this terrible reality show.
Although what an important honor because your job is so important. Listen,
I'm a sequestered for somebody's life in Malaysia on the

(52:09):
mole and it was essentially poor. No listen, I mean
because if they get sequestered, they take their they take
their phone, they're cut off.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
But you're not fun and Venie, what do you think?
Because honestly, if I'm on a jury like this, I'm
concerned that my face is out there and that my
identity is not anonymous one hundred percent.

Speaker 11 (52:31):
And then the reality is to your point of having anonymity,
if I am on a jury jury and I'm not
a quester, and I am absolutely going to use my
cell phone or whatever mediums like maybe look up some
words of some course situations that's happening in the child
that I'm not familiar with. So just by nature of
doing that and recognizing how how high profile it is,

(52:54):
they're gonna have exposure to any and everything Diddy just
by circumstance. So I really don't understand how there is
a real assumption that they can avoid discussion for media coverage.
It's an impossibility.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Yeah, I'm so curious.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
What do you think about the fact that the next
witness that was scheduled to be there today obviously now tomorrow,
you know, is a holiday, and the following day, allegedly
this you know, former assistant of Ditty will be testifying.
He received immunity for his testimony, so you have to
would assume.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
It's pretty explosive.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
He was picked up, if I'm not mistaken, the same
time that the raids were going on at Ditty's homes.
This guy was picked up at Miami Airport, had a
little something on him, was associated with drug muling, and
was looking at charges of his own. Now there's an
immunity thing happening, and he might be a very big
piece of this racketeering conversation because he was staff.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Do you think that suspicious timing?

Speaker 11 (53:55):
I think that if it looks and smells like a rat,
it's probably.

Speaker 9 (54:02):
I mean, I do have the call.

Speaker 11 (54:04):
Yeah, he was theuitar map with this gentleman in the
blue sweater exactly. Can I say I smell a little
bit of Shine with them?

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Right?

Speaker 11 (54:17):
Remember back in the day when Shine took the fall? Well,
I mean, and I will say that out loud.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Yeah, No, it's true.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
You can say that. Actually, I think Caven says it now.
Shine is like, yeah, I got hosed. And if you're not,
if anyone doesn't know who that is, Shine is the
man who did many years behind bars. You'll remember in
the nineties when j Lo and Diddy were at that
night club in New York City. This is a very
infamous night. There was a shootout and somebody was shot

(54:44):
in YadA YadA YadA, Diddy and j Loo allegedly, you know,
dip and this man Shine faces authorities and takes the
fall essentially, and I think did he kind of just
they all kind of abandoned them. And the speculation has
always he's been that Shine took the fall for Diddy anyway,
That's like the speculation we're not saying that happen, but

(55:05):
that's the allegedly, allegedly allegedly of it. So sorry, just
so keeping people playing back to you. Vanise.

Speaker 11 (55:11):
Yeah, no, I totally agree, and you explain that perfectly,
and I will say that allegedly, yes, one hundred percent.
But from what I also recognized and heard, Shine also
communicated that without saying out loud, that he did sort of,
you know, step in front of the line of responsibility

(55:32):
when it probably was had nothing to do with him exactly. Goodness,
the woman didn't pass, she was able to tell her story,
but huge saying so this is that's what this whole
thing is giving me a little bit, and so I
think that I'm super excited to see where it goes
and last type of plea deal he might have. But

(55:53):
it's definitely giving recall memory for sure.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah, if I'm him, I want to like be in
a bubble wrap at this point and be in a
way under a lock and key, because again, it's dangerous
to be these witnesses too.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Courtney, what were you going to ask?

Speaker 5 (56:06):
I was just gonna say, this was a great call
in Venise, Thank you so much. We hope you call
anytime you have.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Yeah, I love it. Call again. We're we watching with you. Yes,
and we now have Laura on the line.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Hi, Laura, what's your question?

Speaker 9 (56:22):
Do you mind if I switched subjects to the Hortman
case that happened in Minnesota?

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Absolutely? Please, Yes, We're so happy to hear from you.
What's your question?

Speaker 9 (56:31):
Well, I, you know, obviously what happened over the weekend
is so horrific and heartbreaking. But then I heard recent
news that the Hortman's family home was actually broken into, yes,
you know, after the and that just sounds awful, And
I'm like, where's the police have that on lockdown? I
don't understand how that still happened.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
Apparently they put apparently they put like a trailer out
front with a camera to keep an eye on the home.
But the perpetrator that broke into the house, the perportrayor
listen to me, like, I'm so cop The purp broke
in to a back window. They used the plywood that
covers the window, they ripped it off the window and
smashed the window in the back of the house. Now,

(57:10):
in my opinion, this is like an active crime scene,
right like this is this there should be like police
tape around. There should be like a security guard out there,
a cop.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Something not be How is there not pressed there? Even
it's been such big news and it's such a terrible loss, Laura,
what do you think about this?

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Yeah, what do you think? Do you think something's fishy? I?

Speaker 9 (57:30):
Well, I think it's just it's also disturbing. I mean,
I don't even know the details. I assumed that they
didn't have any security in their home, and it seems
so sad. That sounds like somebody impersonating a cop and
having flashing lights on his car that I just imagine
that they got a you know, a knock in the
middle of the night saying it with some emergency. You know.
It's just so dark what happened, and so it feels

(57:52):
so creepy having somebody to break into the house on
top of it, you know, I know, and nothing was.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Taken, and nothing was taken allegedly, So what do you
make of that?

Speaker 9 (58:01):
You know, they're looking for something just almost like like
a more big curiosity it almost maybe Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
Maybe it's just somebody like a lookie loo right, like
somebody maybe they're into, like, who's this lookie Lou? That's
crawling into the crime scene in the middle of the
night when it's clearly boarded up and there's a police presence.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
Well kind of been done.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Thinks that they're going to sneak by police?

Speaker 3 (58:23):
How did they How did.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
They know that place is not in case by authorities?

Speaker 4 (58:26):
You would assume in Idaho they had to get security
out there because people were trying to get in the house.
They were crawling through the windows under all the boarder.
I think they might have it had it not been guarded.
Oh yeah, I mean they had a twenty four hour
guard out there for months.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
That's that's so wild.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
We need a support group for that.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Thank you so much for your call, Laura. We appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
And we do know that the officers are looking into
the break in and neighbors are being asked to share
their rank camera footage. So the Brooklyn Police, the Brooklyn
Park Police are into it, but neighbors are outraged.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Every Yeah, those aerial shots of that neighborhood too, there's
like not any fences. It just seems like this beautiful,
you know, it's just beautiful, but like wide open spaces
in your neighbors can see, like how harrowing for anybody
who lives in that area too.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
Yeah, I mean, listen, not only were people gunned down,
these were government officials. I mean it's not like they
have like secret service or anything like that. It's not,
you know, they're not like the president. But still, you
think your neighborhood, you probably feel pretty safe, right if
the people next door to me, god forbid, were shot down,
I know, with your dog, I would probably assume that

(59:38):
there's a higher presence of all kinds of attention on
that house, in that area. It would be unbelievable to
me to think that somebody would actually break thin, you know,
literally the way they did seemed as though they knew
where the camera was that they're avoiding. Yes, I mean,
I'm getting I'm going down a crazy path again.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's not who's in this body. I don't know what's
wrong with me. Even conspiracy theory I spend among its
in my head.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
My heart hurts.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Somebody tell us some good news.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
I know. Do we have any good news? Yeah, we do,
as we do well, we.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Have to the only good news that we have is
that it's possible. And it depends on what you consider
good news that you know. Hippler Judge Hippler is not
going to grant the continuance that the coburger team in
Idaho is asking for. Is so that it is good
news in the sense that the family, you know, they're
raising all this money so they can get an airbnb

(01:00:27):
for months, for three months. It's not like if it
got moved, they'd have to think of the logistics of
moving for three months and hours away, not just like
in the same city hours away.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
That's good news. That's got great news. So stick around.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Because next it's what we're watching Wednesday, And don't forget
to call us at eight eight eight thirty one Crime
with your thoughts on any of tonight's stories. Keep it
right here on True Crime Tonight, I want to talk

(01:01:04):
about Brian Coberger. Listen, you know I'm over Karen Reid.
You know I'm done. I'm like, okay, I know we're not,
but it's just like enough.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Already, stay proud.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
So we talked the other night about this door dash driver, right,
and you know, Jarrett was here and I wanted to
ask him about this and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
But he was so he was so good to talk
to you. I he was great.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
I like him a lot, so I completely, I like
blacked out and I forgot to ask about this. But
so to catch people up, there is potentially a new leak,
and I wouldn't necessarily call it a leak.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
It was discovered new information. It's new information the public
that maybe maybe the prosecution's not psyched about or maybe
the defense is not psyched about.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
I don't think any of them are psyched about it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
Yeah, and this is new And in the Brian Coolberger case,
who he has been accused and is going to be
on trial for allegedly murdering for University of Idaho college students.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Yes, that's correct, right, So basically what this new information
is is that there was you know, people foya bodycam
footage all the time, and they make content. There's whole
shows that all they do is show bodycam footage of
people being arrested and wilding out right, right, But this
is like not a TV show.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
This was like a YouTube channel of someone who's an
enthusiast for bodycam footage, right, has dedicated a lot of
their personal resources to you know, putting out footage of
people getting arrested for DUIs I think, right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
That's mainly what it seems to be and eight months ago,
they posted a video of a woman getting arrested and
basically she says, you know, she tells she said intake
with the police officer and the police officers asking her questions,
and she says this, she's telling her story. You know,

(01:03:07):
my husband, her husband was murdered. It's tragic, and she's
telling the story. And she said, and now I had
to testify in the big murder case here because I'm
the door dash driver.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
So yeah, the murder.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Case of the college girls, I'm the door dash driver.
I saw Brian there, I parked right next to him.
And it got flagged by It didn't get flagged by
the person who FOYA that. They probably don't even know
about the Idaho college murders, right, it's just a but
it got flagged by another YouTube account who does know
about the college Idaho college murders watched it or maybe

(01:03:44):
they foyed it independently.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 5 (01:03:46):
And just so people know, FOYA stands for a Freedom
of Information Act and that's the way body, you're so
sophisticated with your crime. I'm sorry, but that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
No, not a lot of matter of public record, you know,
And if you're an enthusiast about you know, this type
of footage. That's essentially what it came from. And then
another enthusiast found that footage and and by the way,
it is very compelling because essentially this woman who you know,
might be having a tough night, which is why I
feel very conflicted about it being out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
There, right, And we struggled with this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
This is like a toughie, like you imagine your worst night,
and now it's like for public consumption. But in it
she does make this, you know, alleged statement about being
the doordaff's driver in this major crime. That's been something
that has been really under lock and key and has
been sealed information and their identity has been sealed. But
I thought was so interesting as she continues to speak

(01:04:41):
about the fact that her husband was killed in front
of her and he had been shot many times, and
it all together probably sounded so incredibly outlandish and frankly drunken.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Right, it turns out everything and that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
The other part of this horrible tale was accurate. Her
husband was gone down.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
It's important for people to know who maybe aren't familiar
with Idaho. It's long been suspected that the door dash
driver might have seen the suspect. And the reason we
all thought that is because we had the names of
everybody else, like, you know that was on scene the
next morning, you know who they were with that night.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
I mean, we had everybody except the door dash driver.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
So it was long suspected that that person's name was
hidden because she saw or he because we didn't know
the gender right saw the suspect, Brian Coberger. And so
it's not shocking that, you know, this has come out.
What's kind of shocking about it is what we've learned
tangenically from Drunk Turkey, right, And what we learned from

(01:05:43):
that is the Drunk Turkey Show. Who is a former
law enforcement officer. His name is Daniel. He runs at
a great show. He's very Idaho centric folk. He kind
of focuses a little bit right now on this case.
He gets a lot of calls, you know, people call
into the show, give him tips. He has a good
relationship with Kaylee's one of the victims, Dad Steve. You know,

(01:06:06):
he's kind of I would say trustworthy, yes, all right,
And he got a call prior to this discovery from
a friend Supposedly this is all alleged that said, I'm
a friend of the DoorDash driver and I know something.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
She's a middle aged woman. Checks right, that checks.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
And then this is what he said, Daniel, this friend
said to him. As she was walking, the driver of
the white vehicle was passing. She looked at the car,
and the driver of the car was looking at the
house and at her. She also said he was staring
so intently at the house that she wasn't even sure

(01:06:46):
if he saw her at all. And at the same time,
she looked up and saw a female standing on the
second floor of the house looking out the window, which
we suspect is Xana. Right now, we struggled with talking
about this, right we did.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
We talked prior to the show, we're going to do this,
and we really we kind of have dodged it until
now it's literally everywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
Now it's everywhere, right, we feel a little bit more
comfortable talking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Yeah, otherwise I think we still wouldn't because again, we
don't want to perpetuate a problem, right, and it's not
for us to like try cases in the public opinion.
It's not necessarily the way it should be.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
Right now, but it's important to acknowledge. It's out there
of course, right, and now mainstream media is reporting on it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Which is interesting reporting on it. Yeah, everyone's reporting on
it now.

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
So yeah, I just I think it's interesting, but I
wanted to know and maybe maybe somebody out there will
know this. Just answer this question. You can give us
a call eight eight eight thirty one crime. Could this
potentially affect the trial? And because of how she was discovered, right,
is her credibility at question?

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Well, that's what the question is saying, for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
I have a question though, why do you guys think
that the that the prosecution wouldn't have put it forth.
We have an eye witness they put forth, we have
DNA evidence they put forth, we have compelling cell phone
location data they put forth, many other things.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Why would this because people would know for sure it
was a DoorDash driver exactly, And that's also slightly dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
Honestly, she's at risk.

Speaker 4 (01:08:21):
Listen, there's pro Burgers out there, right, Yeah, there's people
out there who are y would be so it's very dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
It's very dangerous.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
There's people out there who are convinced that Brian Coberger
is innocent and there's nothing wrong with that they're allowed
to think that, right, and technically illegally he is right now, yep. So,
but there are unhinged people in every sector, right, I'm
just like, I'm sure you know there's people that are
unhinged that think he's guilty, right, And it really does

(01:08:53):
put her at risk. It just like Dylan. Dylan's at
risk and that was anod one too. Dylan is one
of the surviving roommates if you haven't followed this closely,
and also a very coveted name, and it's been you know,
covered so so so much. But it really I guess
a lot of the things we're talking about tonight speak
to this dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
It's very dangerous. So I think that's why Courtney.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
I don't know for sure, obviously, yeah, but I think
that's why, because it puts turned danger.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
And also to that end, it also doesn't help for
other either victims or bystanders, people who see something very scary.
You know, you want people to come forward and to
share the truth and to be able to move justice forward.
But I can really appreciate how scary that must be.

Speaker 5 (01:09:36):
I have another question for you guys, and we were
talking about in this coburger case, you know, the potential
for an alternate suspect or his defense attorney is saying,
there's two and they were planting evidence against Brian Coberger
and this is all going on behind closed doors and
we haven't seen it in the court.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
And we we've spoken.

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
About how it is very hard to have it alternate
suspect because you can't just be accusing people blindly. Right,
all this to say what happened in the Casey Anthony trial,
so taking a little right turn, but that sticks out
in my mind when we talk about this trial because
her father was he put forth as a legitimate alternate

(01:10:19):
suspect or just said because that man was great?

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Are you saying similarly in this case? Because an alternate
suspect is being brought forward? Similarly in tot Mom Casey
Anthony accused of killing her child three year old at
the time. Very long in the process, her defense kind
of changed for the umpteenth time, and it basically was
that her father was involved, implicating him.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
I ever see them on Doctor Phil That was explosive.
But it's a really good question.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
And I didn't she say that, Kate? They were swimming
and Kayleie drowned and George covered it up.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Yeah, and covered it up. And then there was allegations
I could abuse and that Casey was being sexually abused.
Old trauma response because she was also fearful that dad
was also sexually abusing his daughter. By the way, he
was never convicted of that. So just sharing what was said.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
This is not and this was said in a documentary
as well. Yeah, and this is not an opinion. But yeah,
so I yeah, my question was I don't think.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
I don't think he was brought up as an alternative
suspect though, was he here?

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
I think we'll dig into that because it is an
interesting point. I think he was definitely under a lot
of suspicion and I don't know, I remember him having
to get a lie detector test on Doctor Phil about it.
For real, I'm not even being funny. It was like
a serious thing. I feel like I need a nap
or to meditate or it just hit myself on the
head quicker. It's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, listen tomorrow, we

(01:11:50):
have a big show tomorrow too, because Brian Enton's going
to be here, so we're going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Talking about all of these cases.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yeah, exactly, So I'm sure he'll be filled with new
information on both Brian Coburger and on Diddy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
And he's in court with the Bolter guy, the guy
that killed the politician. So I'm dying to hear take
on this. He's got his hands in a bunch of
cases like that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
I am all also following because Brian is just really
good at reporting news, like he's just a really good journalist.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
So I'm very reasoned.

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
Yeah, I feel like he's everywhere too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
I'm a fan in the trial today though here in
today is you get to all these places in one day.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
It's like us, maybe he has a private jet.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
We'll find out tomorrow, speculator, Sure you stay with us.
I'm dying to also hear what Brian has to say
about KK in the daycase and Diddy's chief of staff
and what that's turning into seems to be getting more
and more real. And yeah, the burning question is is she,
you know, working for the fans or is she going

(01:13:01):
to be implicated or or or or you know interesting
about her too, she comes from this really lovely backgrounds.
You know, she went to North Carolina State University and
studied business and French and was working with Diddy as
an executive at Bad Boys Entertainment like good stuff, and
then suddenly became chief of staff. And it seems like
a big left turn or I don't know, like what

(01:13:23):
a mess. So I'm curious what his take on that
will be. Yeah, me too, because everyone's asking where's KK
where is her? Absence from this trial is felt.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
Mm hmm, right, because everybody's talking about her right, Yes, yes,
where is she?

Speaker 6 (01:13:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Where is she?

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
And you know, Diddy had described her as his right
arm and she has been implicated and as you know
in several of these these civil cases and now of
course in recent testimony as well.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
I'm curious about that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
I'm also curious why there's been less discussion around kim Porter.
That's Ditty's ex wife, right, who also is you know,
mother to his children. And she died from pneumonia, is
what it's said. And then it's of course the conspiracy
theorists or you know, she was poisoned.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
We do not know, but I'm sure there's so much
to dig into on the Diddy stuff, So we'll have
plenty of it tomorrow with Brian.

Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
Yeah, does he do a lot of Diddy do you know.
I know, but I know he just follows every case
he does. He's, like I said, he's got his hands
and everything. But you know, he's also familiar with federal
court because he was just in federal court with the
guy who bolter right, the guy who politicians, so he
might have some insight on how that kind of operates,
you know. And because it's not televised. Federal court is

(01:14:40):
never televised, by the way, which sucks because like, I
really want to watch Luigi I Adrea too, I would
like to there not always just cameras in the court room.

Speaker 5 (01:14:47):
He might also know about why so few cases are
sequestered sequestered, so he'd be one to ask real quick.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Since we sorry, yes, we.

Speaker 5 (01:14:58):
We're watching I'm going to give mine first and quick
minus crime adjacent, but I think a really valuable watch.

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
It's called Social Studies.

Speaker 5 (01:15:05):
It's streaming on Hulu, and it covers the one entire
year of the first generation of people raised on social
media I mentioned here. Now they go into sex, they
go into racism, they go into hardcore bullying, and a
lot of sort of hate and crime ideologies are formed online.

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
So Social Studies on Hulu.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
Bu Well I watched this weekend. We watched the Gilg
beat killer House of Secrets, amazing, excellent.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
You have to watch it. I loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
It's been a great night. We're definitely going to be
back tomorrow talking Diddy, So stay with us. Brian Enton's
going to be here. This is True Crime Tonight where
we talk true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
Good Night,