VERDICT in Sean 'Diddy' Combs Trial and Bryan Kohberger Pleads Guilty to the Murder of 4 University of Idaho Students

After approximately 12 to 13 hours of deliberation over the course of three days, jurors have reached a final verdict in the trial of Sean 'Diddy' Combs. Former homicide prosecutor Jarrett Ferentino returns to discuss the breaking change-of-plea hearing that took place today. Ferentino is now a national legal analyst, true crime expert, host of the podcast True Crime Boss, and co-host of the YouTube series Primetime Crime. Tune in for all the details.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, July second, and it
has been a wild day in the Courtroomstiddy is not
getting out on bail after all major developments, bombshells in
that case. And Brian Coberger, he was accused of murdering
for beautiful Idaho college students, has been in court today,

(00:43):
a packed courthouse. In fact, he's officially guilty and that
is his play. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head u
KT Studios where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries.
This is one of those days that it's impossible to
decide where to begin. I think it's emotional beyond measure.
The Brian Coburger case will start there. You know, we
have been following this one so closely our podcast The

(01:03):
Idaho Massacre, two seasons of that, so we've been at
this since day one.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
On this case.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Courtney Armstrong here is the voice of it and our
Peacock documentary The Idaho Student Murders is dropping tomorrow. That
really unpacks kind of how we got here, and we
were not expecting him to plead guilty. For all of
these years he said he's so innocent and really seemingly
overnight on a random Monday, we get the news that

(01:30):
he's changing his vote, and all the families were in
the courtroom today. It was packed, it was emotional, and
seeing him standing there basically emotionless was paralyzing. I think
we all felt sick. You know how I did.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, that is for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
I think sick. I think staggered is the word I
keep using. It's just that is how I feel. Brian Colberger,
as you as you alleged, I was going to say,
Brian Coolberger did change his plea two and a half
years that he was not guilty, and today in court
he changed his plea to guilty of the four murders

(02:07):
of the Idaho College students, and the judge accepted that plea.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Brian Coberger.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
This crime happened back in November twenty twenty two and
the victims were Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, Kaylee Gonsalvez, and
Ethan Chapin for young college students living in a house.
Brian Coberger cannot file an appeal and also this plea
avoids the death penalty and the judge a big part

(02:37):
of today's court appearance was for the judge to make
sure that Brian Coberger, the formally accused and now guilty,
that he understood all of the charges against him that
he was agreeing to. And we have a clip you'll
hear of the Judge Hitler and Brian Coberger.

Speaker 5 (02:57):
Let me ask you, did you on November thirteenth, twenty
twenty two we entered the residents at one one two
two King Road in Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to
commit the fallony crime of murder?

Speaker 6 (03:10):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Did you on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two in Leaytah County,
State of Idaho, kill and murder Madison Mogan a human being?

Speaker 6 (03:25):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:26):
And did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately, and with
premeditation and malis a forethought?

Speaker 6 (03:32):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:32):
Did you, honor about that same date in Moscow, Idaho,
kill and murder Kaylee Gonzalez a human being?

Speaker 6 (03:41):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:41):
And did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately, and with
premeditation and malicica forethought?

Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:49):
And did you, on that same date in Moscow, Idaho,
kill and murder Xana Cernodle pardon me, a human being?

Speaker 6 (03:57):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:57):
And did you do that willfully, unlawfully deliberately, with premeditation
and malice of forethought?

Speaker 6 (04:02):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (04:04):
And then on or.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
About November thirteenth, twenty twenty two again in Leaytok County, Idaho,
did you kill and murder ethan shape and a human being?

Speaker 6 (04:14):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (04:15):
Did you do that willfully and lawfully deliberately, with premeditation
and malice of forethought?

Speaker 6 (04:19):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
It's hard to hear that. Again.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
We've heard this so many times today, and it gut
punches us each time. What a gutless reaction, What a
gutless man, him sitting in a chair, his back to
all of the people's lives he's ruined. Is not okay?
This is a young man, by the way, There was
this whole he was studying this. We've talked about this,
probably to nauseum. At this point I thought something was

(04:45):
very interesting today that I hadn't heard before. Just how
meticulous he cleaned out that car. Imagine he murdered four people,
then he left. He must have been drenched in blood.
It was a massive overkill. The walls were bleeding in
this offcut, off campus house. He gets in his white
Alantra and dips and vanishes into the night.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
The fact is his car was meticulous, and he was
cleaning it with his little gloves over the holidays.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
We knew that, but even the prosecution said it was
pretty astounding that when they got to that vehicle that
he clearly had driven right after the murders, it was pristine,
like there was none of the gunk that you would
any of us have from just even our diet coke
kind of spilling off in our cars. It's he studied
this crime scene investigation and cleanup. That was a course

(05:33):
he studied. So he's been studying this, he applied it,
and now he's just going to sit in jail kind
of prison, I should say, And I hope it's miserable.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
I believe the prosecution said that the car looked like
the inside was almost entirely taken apart, and I further
believe he said that when they found the car literally
had cleaning supplies right next to it, So it was.

Speaker 8 (05:58):
Well and we know from a lot of the documents
that were released that they saw like as they were
like basically, I'm going to say the police, but I'm
sure there were some sort of federal agents involved to
state police all this. That when they were surveilling him,
they saw him in the kitchen and going to the
garage and then back to the kitchen and the garage.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
And the assumption made and reading those.

Speaker 8 (06:20):
Documents was that he was cleaning out the car the
night he was arrested actually.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
And when they were surveiling him also he was sitting
there with gloves on his hands.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Right, going going through garbage.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
That was one thing I do remember that at least
at some point of being surveilled, body.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Right, embody moved.

Speaker 8 (06:38):
And I'm here with Stephanie Leidaker and Courtney Armstrong and
we are getting into the change of plea to guilty
of Brian Coberger in the Idaho College murders hearing. If
you want to weigh in, how do you feel about this?
How do you feel about this plea? Give us a
call at eighty to eight thirty one Crime and you know,
or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Hap.

Speaker 8 (06:58):
I just feel so numb still, Like I just yeah,
you know, and you know he parallel that with all
the emotions that the family must be feeling. Like even
even Brian Coberger's mom and dad, who were president at
the hearing today, for the first time since all of
this started, they finally came face to face with the victims' families. Right,

(07:22):
that must have been difficult for them.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I can't even imagine. I talk about a tough spot
to be. And you know, we've always heard that they
were very loving. You know, something we were talking about
earlier today here in the studio and body of your perspective,
and this was really interesting. The dad, so Michael Coburger,
by all accounts, really has done everything for his son.
You know, Courtney and I we've all body you two,
We've interviewed so many people in and around the family.

(07:45):
He was, you know, working at the school as a janitor,
you know, paid to put his son through school. Very
hard working parents. We know we knew a few details
about dad, right, one that allegedly I guess this is
not alleged anymore. Let's take the glove. So after the
murders and before the bodies were discovered, this maniac calls home.

(08:05):
He has you know, three reported phone calls. We think
it was too Dad in the early morning. It would
have been like nine am or so six fifteen his time,
maybe nine am, I think Eastern time in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
So what was that phone call like? Right?

Speaker 2 (08:21):
We also know that Dad flew to Idaho and then
drove that white Lantra home for the holidays. That was
a very infamous ride home because they were pulled over
two times. To talk about that emotional regulation to have
that happen. Then we also know that you know, Dad
was in contact with him. He loves him very very much.

(08:44):
Kaylee Gonzalvez his dad. That's a victim of Kaylee Stephen Gonzalvez.
He said that he was He seemed kind of fired
up about this outside the courthouse today too, that he
knew the phone records, and he knows when mister Coburger,
Michael Coburger, when he decided to fly to drive his
son home, that it was a spontaneous decision, not a

(09:06):
long planned one as originally stated. And I think the
implication is that Dad knew that there was trouble in
Paradise and was maybe harboring this information for the last
two and a half years. We do not know this
to be true, but that is the implication and that
hit me kind of hard too.

Speaker 8 (09:22):
Yeah, that's you know, speculation alert, right, this is speculation.
We've been talking about this for a while about you
know that did the family have some kind of suspicion
did the sister? I kind of think it was a
sister because she did not she was the only family
member that didn't attend the extradition hearing, and I kind
of opined that she, you know, the knife was ordered

(09:45):
on the Amazon family account that was used to murder
these four beautiful souls. And was she, you know, on
the seventh of December when the bolo went out for
the WHITEI Lantra, was she putting things together in her mind?
Calls Dad, Dad, I think something might be up with Brian.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
You know, I don't know. I don't know what the
popitation sends.

Speaker 8 (10:07):
And was he like, everything's fine, Brian's coming home, everything's fine.
Don't know, Dad, I think something, you know, did she
convince him? And did he buy a last minute ticket
to Seattle? Now it's interesting that he flew to Seattle
because it's so much more expensive to flat to Spokane
last minute and Steve Gonsalves is saying, this morning, I

(10:30):
know when you booked your flight? He made How would
he know? Reporters asked him. The Nevers asked him, what
do you have to say to Brian Coberger's family, and
he said, I don't have anything to say to them
except I know when you booked your flight. He you know,
I'm paraphrasing I know when you booked your flight, And
I'm the hairs of my because we've been talking about this,
you know, it's all spopulation, and I'm like, oh my god,
is this am my confirmation byaseeing myself at this point,

(10:52):
like am I you know? Am I wanting that to
be true? I don't know, but it was definitely interesting.
And I don't know how he would know that. I
know that they had their own private vestigator. They've actually
had many in that things have come in tip wise
to them. It could be they're being hoaxed, because that
does happen. People lie all the time.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
But just praying on victim's family members and giving them.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Of course, of course that's intense.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
So just to play that thought along, because again it's
it's a tough one and a tough spot to even imagine,
so dad, you're The implication from Kaylee Gonzalvez is, you know,
incredible father Stephen Gonzalveez, is that Brian Coberger's father had
an inkling and that maybe that's why he.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Got on a flight and the last SITH flight, a last.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Minute flight to drive home, which was like a random
road trip, and they took the longest way.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Possible, the weirdest way. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
We have that, you know, very infamous bodycam footage of
Brian Cober being pulled over twice, twice back to back
by two separate law enforcement entities.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
What are the odds, you know, certainly, what are the odds?

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Well that you know, Jarrett Farantino had said, well, you know,
yes that he thought from the beginning Coburger was guilty,
and he said otherwise, he's the unluckiest man in the universe.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
That was just you are bad luck those two. That
was divine? Was it record?

Speaker 4 (12:21):
According to what the FBI said, they were not in
contact with on the ground, and the stops were from
two different agencies. One was the Sheriff's We break this
down in the Idaho Masacre podcast, which actually but.

Speaker 8 (12:32):
We only had body cam footage from one we only
have body cam footage from one of those stops.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Is there a reason for that?

Speaker 8 (12:38):
Listen, my brain is going one hundred miles an hour
all the time about Wait, what does that imply?

Speaker 3 (12:42):
So I want to know more?

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Wait, because we always thought he was being pulled over
because the police were in a coordinated effort to be
able to see his hand on the wheel to see if.

Speaker 8 (12:52):
There were scratches. We're going to find out. Veteran trial
attorney Jarrett Farantino rejoins us to discuss the Coburger hearing,
and I don't forget. Give us a call at eight
eight thirty one Crime with your thoughts on any of
tonight's stories.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
How do you feel.

Speaker 8 (13:06):
About this plea? What has it done to you? Give
us a call, Dick, Great Air, True Crime.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Tonight, Diddy, the verdict is in and he is not
going home tonight.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Much more on that to come.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
And also an explosive day in the hearing of Brian
Coberger where he has officially changed his plea to guilty
on all four counts in the Idaho student college murders.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
We have Jarrett Farantino, who also appears in our documentary
that's going to be dropping on Peacock the Idaho student murders,
and he's going to be weighing in sort of on
just the bigness of this and how unexpected it is.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
So Jarrett, welcome, good evening. How are you They're so good?
How are you holding up? I know you've had a foot
day as well.

Speaker 6 (14:01):
It's been a long day. Today is a day that
will not be easily forgotten in the crime world and
the justice world. That's for sure.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
No sleep for you, So, Jared, the verdicts are all in.
Did he was found guilty of the two lesser charges
of transportational prostitution and not guilty of the three more
serious charges, including the racketeering. Talk to us about what
that means.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
Well, what it means is he is no longer facing
life in prison. He's more likely facing a sentence of
probably five years with the two of these cases taken together,
which is why he's celebrating. He was staring down the
barrel of forever behind bars, and he learned today that
three of those counts, of the five that carried the

(14:48):
stiffest sentence of life are off the table. He's been acquitted.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
It's pretty unbelievable. Not the best day for women in America.
It's been kind of hard to swallow. But look, they
didn't improve the racketeering. They didn't improve the racketeering.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Jack.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Do you think five years is realistic? I was pretty
confident that he was going to walk tonight.

Speaker 6 (15:08):
Well, I think here's what I don't think has been addressed.
To the extents, all of the behavior that was put
before the judge can be considered when the judge composed
a sentence. So it's this is a judge who's refused
to let him out on bail, who sat by and
watched that video and heard all of the horrible things
that did. He really didn't deny doing. He denied being

(15:31):
guilty of a federal offense. So the judge can consider
all of that conduct as an enhancement, which may likely
put him in a situation where he's going to end
up doing potentially like a five year sense. And I'm
only saying that conceptually. It maybe four. So I think
when you look at the enhancements and the fact that
he did not plead guilty, he took a trial, he

(15:52):
is looking at at a minimum, if it's fifteen to
twenty one months on one count with a zero prior
record score, and.

Speaker 8 (15:59):
They won't do time served or anything like that.

Speaker 6 (16:01):
Oh he'll get he'll get credit for the time he's
been in. But at time serve sentences he walks out
that very day. I don't see that happening, just with
all that's before the judge.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Wow, Wow, unbelievable. It's funny.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
He did seem pretty excited, and you think about it,
five years is no you know, walk in the park.
That's still a very stiff sentence for a normal person.
I guess we're just all struggling. I guess, you know,
we all have heard that there was this letter written
by Cassie Ventura, his ex girlfriend, who you know, delivered
her baby very soon after testifying against him. She was

(16:35):
the first victim we've seen that, you know, terrible footage
on CNN where he was beating her as she was
trying to get away in an elevator, and that she
felt terribly scared if he had been released on bail.
You know, some of our contacts suggested that if it
wasn't Diddy and just a regular average drow off the
street who had been charged and found guilty of similar charges,

(16:57):
may have walked with time served, but look, he does
seem like he has a violent tendency, and I feel
worried for the victims who did face him, or anybody
frankly who testified against him.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
I mean, that's really scary stuff. It is.

Speaker 8 (17:11):
And to your point, Cassie Ventura's a representatives wrote a
letter to the judge asking for bail to be denied
because she, you know, while through her representatives, said in
the letter that she's concerned for the people that testify
that you know, Diddy could be dangerous, could be well
that's what she says.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well, I mean it's.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, like we know he is. I think that's that
part has been slightly proven. So I do feel relieved
that the judge, you know, took that into consideration. Do
you think that was maybe the thing that moved the
needle in terms of him not getting out tonight, Jared.

Speaker 6 (17:45):
Well, that's certainly a big factor, the fact that there
are people legitimately afraid of him. But again, the fact
that the judge may sentence him ultimately to a jail sentence,
the judge would keep him in to earn time only
to bring him back make much sense to let him
out now, Cassie Sear and James Spear. That is it's legitimate.

(18:05):
Look at what they were, Look what they were subjected
to at his hand. One thing we said the other
night was they've already testified. You know, if Diddy gets out,
you would hope somebody who's been given another chance that
life would not go after the witnesses in their case.
You know, he'd be on the other side of the
planet if he could, away from them. But that doesn't

(18:26):
mean they don't have every right to be afraid. I
get that.

Speaker 8 (18:29):
We are True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, I Am Body
Move in here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker and
veteran trial attorney Jarrett Farantino discussing the Diddy broots.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Do you agree with the outcome?

Speaker 8 (18:41):
Give us a call at eight eight thirty one Crime
or use the iHeartRadio app and hit the little microphone
and give us a little talk back and we will
play it on the air. Jarrett, what can you explain
for everyone, including myself, what the Man Act is, because
that's the only thing he's been he's been found guilty of, right.

Speaker 6 (19:00):
What should the man act? The Man Act is the
transportation across state lines of an individual for a commercial
sex act. That's what it is and why it becomes
a federal client. It's because you're involving interstate travel. That's
really the connecting piece that allows for the federal government
to bring a charge under the man.

Speaker 8 (19:21):
That's what it is, and that's the only thing he's
been found guilty of, right, the Man Act violation. Basically,
he's guilty of violating that federal law.

Speaker 6 (19:31):
And it's closely related to the other charge, which was
the trafficking charge. But if you will remember, the trafficking
charge required that additional very serious element of coercion, fraud, threats,
and that's where that's where the disconnect was with the
jury and the prosecution's case. Here's you know, when you

(19:52):
have a case where the defense comes in and their
defense is essentially this, we agree with everything the prosecution said.
Our client did those things, but that doesn't make him
guilty of a federal offense. That's a powerful defense. It
takes the wind out of the sales of the prosecution.
And what happens here is they say, yes, he did
these things, but also these were at times consensual. The

(20:16):
defense is saying at all times were consensual acts. That
is where the reasonable doubt came in in this case.
I think when it came time for the jury to deliberate,
clearly that was the issue they had with that particular charge.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
But just a question, and maybe I just personally can't
get past it, Jarrett. But having seen the jury saw
the video of Cassie being beaten, how is that not
force or coercion?

Speaker 6 (20:44):
In my mind it is how they see it as
not force or coercion, and Filio did a good job
of falling on that sort. He says, Look, this is
domestic violence. They're in a fight after what was a
consensual act. That's not threat or coercion because at that
point you're gelling the two the game. Is it a
consensual act where there was a physical assault afterwards? Or

(21:05):
was it trafficking and a physical assault? The jury didn't
see it that way. I agree with you. I mean
my thought on that I thought Diddy was going to
be convicted of those four underlying charges. I was surprised,
and look, I said, you see that, Leo, you can't
unsee it. But the jury in their mind didn't make
that connection.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
And as recently as yesterday Obviously they were at a
bit of a deadlock, right The jury was saying that
they were not going to be able to kind of
come to an agreement at this point, and you know,
the judge was like, well, you're going to have to
go back in there and keep sorting through it. I'm
just curious in your experience what happens in these hours.
You know, in one night's time, it goes from you know,

(21:45):
life behind bars in a federal prison. And I've learned that,
you know, federal trials have a pretty high success rate
in terms of convictions. What happens to turn that around?
Is it just hours and hours and hours happens.

Speaker 6 (22:00):
You know, there's no perfect formula. Time is certainly a
component of it. That's a really good point. But and
they're not concerning themselves with the sentence. They're not thinking
about life sentence versus five years or ten years. They're
thinking about the elements of the crime. Rico charge was
the most complicated instruction where they hung up on a predicate,
where they hung up on whether or not there was

(22:21):
an organization. And the right thing for the judge to
do at that point is say, hey, we've all been
here for seven weeks. We understand, you believe it has
go back and try harder, and oftentimes they come back
and the decision is made, and that's what happened here.
Oftentimes they end up hopelessly deadlock, and they remain deadlock,
and when they come back to the jury they say, judge,

(22:41):
you know, we're not getting where. They come back to
the judge they say, hey, we're not getting any further here.

Speaker 8 (22:45):
And do you think there's any scenario in which the
federal government maybe overcharge him and maybe should have not
done rico and done something else.

Speaker 6 (22:54):
Yes, I think that we talked. We have all talked
a great length about the mafia traditional use of the
rico charge. Right, it's knowing that, knowing how it fit
pretty squarely in the world of organized crime and street gangs.
To do that charge over the life of Ditty was
a bit of a stretch, and it was a bridge

(23:17):
too far for that jury. They overreached, And when you overreached,
lose credibility because then things start to crumble and the
rest of your case is impacted because when you shoot
for the stars, that's what happened. I think they did
overcharge something that.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I always noticed in some of these bigger cases. There
becomes this numbness that happens after your brain absorbs too
much toxic information. You know, if you're on a jury,
and you know, when Cassie Ventura took the stands, it
was draw it was jaw dropping, right. We all couldn't
believe what we were hearing in this abuse. And we've
seen the video and then and then now you add

(23:52):
weeks and weeks. It's almost like our human brains can't
tolerate that much information.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
We get fatigued a little bit.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Is there anything now in retrospect as a trial attorney?
I know you've done so many huge cases and we're
so grateful to have you to talk to about this again.
Not any no judgment on the prosecution. I think they
did a great job. Is there anything just retrospectively that
you would do differently if you were in their seat?

Speaker 6 (24:18):
Yes, I would have worked harder to define the organization.
I would have had more there. I would have had
additional witnesses just setting forth you're looking for. You have
to prove that organization exists as much as you have
to prove trafficking existed or prostitution existed. And it seemed
to me an afterthought, it was text messages, it was receipts,

(24:40):
but it wasn't one particular witness that don't think about
the mafia trials. They have these chains of command and
these family trees, and you have soldiers, and they talked
about those things. But I didn't see it. I didn't
feel that organization. If you're going to charge it, you've
got to prove it.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
You're right, You're right.

Speaker 8 (25:00):
Well, coming up next, we're going to be continuing the
discussion of Ditty's shocking bail hearing and verdict with Jarrett Farantino,
and later more on Brian Coberger's guilty plea in the
Idaho college murders, and don't forget to give us a
call at eight eight eight thirty one Crime with your
thoughts on any of tonight's stories. Sticker here True Crime Tonight,
where we're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
If you haven't been watching the news. Diddy is not
going home tonight. He is not allowed to go home
on bail and the verdict is in. We're unpacking that
with Jarrett Farantino and also Brian Coberger, the accused in
the Idaho college murders. If you haven't been following that
Brian Coberger was accused and had been pleading not guilty

(25:51):
to all four counts in the Idaho student murders, and
today was in court at a hearing and has officially
said he is guilty and it was impossible to witness
and to watch. It's been breaking news all day. We'll
be uncovering more on that case as well, but we
really want to hear from you, so please join the
conversation eight eight eight three to one Crime. I'm Stephanie.

(26:15):
This is Courtney and Body. We are here together and
we have a caller on the line. Yeah, yeah, welcome.
What's your question?

Speaker 9 (26:22):
Yes, my question is is there any possibility that Brian
Coleberger could now be charged federally since he crossed state lines?
And follow up with that on the clear deal, I
thought that it said life without the possibility of parole,
but the judge always said alive.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
That's a very interesting point and attached I hadn't even considered,
certainly the latter point. I don't think he can be
charged federally, although the state lines is a very unique
interesting point.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker 8 (26:56):
I don't think because he crossed straight lines, they would
charge him federally since he's already admitted guilt to you know,
the state charges, and I don't. I don't know what
benefit that would have for you know, anyone really, but
it is interesting. It is an interesting thought. And I
know that when all this first happened in the true

(27:16):
crime community, we were all kind of speculating, you know,
why hasn't he been charged federally? And I don't have
the answer to that, because he did cross state lines
from Washington where he lives in Pullman, Washington, and right across,
you know, if it's like a five minute drive is Moscow, Idaho.
So he does technically cross state lines. But I don't
think he can be charged federally. We could ask heare
at Farantino.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Such a good point, what do you think? What's your
what was your interpretation of the hearing today?

Speaker 6 (27:43):
I did watch the whole line and it was incredible.
I mean it was incredible after watching nine hundred days
of nine hundred and sixty two days, I think it's
been since the murders and watched Brian Kolberger since he
emerged on the scene deny his involvement, fight tooth and nail,
to stand in that courtroom and admit he did this.

(28:03):
I mean that was jarring.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah, what is cicico? What is sicico in?

Speaker 9 (28:08):
Jared?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
You probably don't even know this, but the documentary The
Idaho Student Murders on Peacock that you're so wonderful in
that'll be dropping at three am in the morning because
these new developments have really shaken things up.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
So we hope you all tune in. Thank you, Fret,
Thank you for your call.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah yeah, And then we actually have another caller, Jack
on the line.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Hello, Hi, Jack, what's your question? Welcome?

Speaker 6 (28:34):
Hi. So I'm wondering with all the not guilty verdicts.

Speaker 10 (28:37):
We've obviously seen all the proof of him beating up Cassie,
We've seen Kay Cutty's testimony about having this car blown up,
We've seen Kanye West at the trial. What do you
think this overall said about the power dynamics of the
entertainment industry and the fact is he's able to possibly
be getting away with this just because of the fact
that he has all that money and influence over the
music industry.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
I love this question, Jack, question.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
I'm actually looking I had been and you know, scrubbing
around where we've all been just voraciously gathering information as
much as we can, and I have a couple of
things that people in the industry have put out. Kesha
shared this on X She said, Cassie.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
I believe you, I love you.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Your strength is a beacon for every survivor. And then
Fitty sent made his own post about Ditty, and I'm
not sure if he was mocking him. It was a
little confusing, said did he beat the Fed's hand clap?
Hand clap, handclap? That boy a bad man beat the rico.
So I actually can't even tell if it's supportive or

(29:35):
a mocking.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Well, remember it's comic, a long complicated relationship because he
is fifty Cent also was doing a documentary about Ditty
and it was said to be really explosive and that
he was lining up all of the biggest names in
the industry and Jack. You'll remember, we've heard all of
these hip hop moguls were going to come down and

(29:56):
be sent away. And you know, there hasn't been a
single celebrity other than Kanye rolling in for ten minutes,
and we see one of his sons, Christian, was promoting
his new song that he's made with Kanye dropping today
love and I don't know, it just seems like Diddy's
getting away with it, and it's a real cue to
the hip hop industry or just in general that it's

(30:17):
okay to.

Speaker 8 (30:18):
Look at christ the hell out of people. Chris Brown,
you remember he? You know, there were pictures of beautiful
Rihanna and her gorgeous face just demolished by Chris Brown.
And he's living life in yeah, life like nothing happened,
you know? Is it because these people are in the
music industry, this is happening? Like Jack is asking, are

(30:39):
they so powerful? Are they too big to fail? I
guess yes is the answer. I guess, you know, Jack,
we actually don't know the actual answer. But to me,
just as an outsider looking in, yeah, it seems like
it's open territory to beat up who you want, and
as long as you have money and guns and power, you'll.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Probably get away with it. Thank you, Jack for your call.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
We actually have one more caller on the line. We
have Meredith.

Speaker 11 (31:04):
Hi, Meredith, I had a question about the Brian Koburger case. Yes, yeah,
I was wondering if the prosecution was in touch with
the victims' families before they went ahead and allowed for
the plea deal to take place.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
This is a good question.

Speaker 8 (31:21):
Yes they were informed, they weren't. But here's the thing.
They were informed Sunday night in an email. They they
apparently they had a meeting on Friday, just the one
that just passed, and they floated the idea that there,
you know, how would you feel about a plea deal?
And each family probably gave, you know, an answer, and
then on Sunday, according to Steve Gunsalvus, the father of

(31:44):
Kaylee Gunsalvas, who is a victim in this case. According
to Steve, they got an email Sunday with a letter
attached saying that they were going to accept the plea deal.
So they were informed, but you know, they don't really
have to. You know, I hate to. I'm not trying
to be mean or blunt or you know, cross or whatever,

(32:05):
but they don't really have to. They don't have to
do what the family wants.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Or take them into consideration necessarily. And they're representing the state.

Speaker 8 (32:15):
Right, they're representing that, they're representing us, the public.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
I gotta tell you, it's very divided to answer that further.
You know, the Mogan family, the Gonzalvez family, they all
came up together those you know, as you know the victims,
Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalvez were childhood friends. They were
so super tight. The families were very tight. They're a
little divided on this right now. Ethan Chapin's mother and family. Frankly,

(32:41):
he was a triplet. They've been very you know, kind
of at peace with this next step it appears. And
you know Xana Kernodle's family, I mean, look at they
all have varying opinions. So I guess, no matter how
you slice it, even if the prosecution did spend more
time with them individually, one would hope they would they
might not have gotten to a unanimous decision one way

(33:03):
or the other. And you're curious what your answer on
that would be.

Speaker 11 (33:07):
Oh, okay, I mean I would think, well, first of all,
if they're not going to if they're not obligated to
take that into consideration, you know, they're not going to
get any answers to where the murder weapon currently is
and why these four individuals. So not only are they
going against some of the family's wishes, but they're not

(33:29):
getting any answers to any of the questions that I
think right most people would want to.

Speaker 8 (33:33):
Know, and that's infuriating exactly. That is infuriating to me.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Couldn't agree more like, how does he not have to
stand up and face the music and turn around and
stare the families in the face whose lives he's destroyed.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
He just looked like he was sitting there like a
cool cucumber. Thank you very much for your question. Ak Meredith.
This is true crime tonight. I'm Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
I'm here with Body Move and Stephanie Leidecker, and we
have Jarrett Farentino, prosecutor extra naire, who is helping us
break down both Diddy and Coburger. So please continue joining
the conversation. Eighty eight three to one crime Jared, I
actually wanted to go back quickly to the first of

(34:14):
those three calls. Is there any in any instance that
Brian Coburger would be or could be charged federally?

Speaker 6 (34:22):
There has to be a federal nexus. Now, if he
kidnapped one of the victims and took them across state
lines and the clime was continuing clearly, then the FBI
would have jurisdics to bring a case like they assisted
in this investigation. But typically murder is a state climb. Now,
if it was motivated by race, if it was a

(34:43):
terrorist act, those are the kind of things that bring
the arm of the federal government and their charges in.
This was more akin to a state prosecution. And remember
state carries life, so that the sentence is as severe
as it is in the federal system. So really, when
you see a killing like this, the crime for the
most part was contained in Idaho, it could be brought

(35:06):
exclusively in Idaho.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
Would just to follow up on that, I think I
know the answer, But yes, everything appeared to happen in Idaho.
Let's make believe that the murder weapon was dropped in
Washington on his way home.

Speaker 6 (35:21):
That has no bearing, correct, No, No, I mean the
grab him into the crime was in Idaho. So that
wouldn't necessarily bring the Feds in. Just because a piece
of evidence was in another state or a defendant fled
to another state, that alone wouldn't make it happen. There
has to be like that criminal nexus to a federal charge.

(35:42):
Was it an act of terror, was it kidnapping? Was
there an interstate drug ring going on? Things of that
nature more typically bring the Feds in.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
That makes sense, Jared, I've never had the opportunity to
ask you, despite you being in the documentary, did you always.

Speaker 6 (35:57):
Think he was guilty one thousand percent the unlucky I
say yes, I say it in the documentary, or the
unlucky I don't want to ruin it, or the unluckiest
guy in the world, because it was the other guy
with his car, his phone number, his DNA, his bushy eyebrows,
his weirdness. That's what I always thought.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
You put it that way, Yeah, no, I know it
does seem pretty obvious in retrospect. And how about the
fact that he was so unemotional. What do you make
of that?

Speaker 6 (36:22):
Well, I think that it goes hand in hand with
the weirdo that he's been his whole life. I hate,
you know, not to be derogatory, but that's what he is.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Come on, I mean, I think we can take the
gloves off now.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
We might have been a little bit more careful when
we were doing the documentary and you sat down for
that interview.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Because we didn't know.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
But now this man has confessed. Yes, he's a weirdo,
he's horrible.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
And a murderer. Listen, it's an intense day. We have Diddy,
we have coburger, and we have you, so please join
us eight at eight three one crime.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
We're all a little exhausted from it, so emotionally, I
feel like we all need a a teeny time out.
I don't know what to say, but and we have
a talk back, so we can go to that right now.

Speaker 12 (37:07):
I this is Kim, and I just want to say
that this whole verdict being in on Ditty as of
right now, we don't know anything specific yet, but I
believe that this is the beginning of the end. Regardless
of what happens with him today. I think cases are
just going to keep coming out and this is the downfall.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Oh so you mean so yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Like So that's an interesting point that because regardless of
how today went, which I think was probably a real
win for Ditty, despite my feelings of thinking he's a
complete animal, the way he's treated women and the fact
that he's going to get away with it is is
just sickening, frankly, But that's true because he does have
about fifty civil lawsuits against him at this point, so

(37:54):
trouble is not over. And as of right now, you
know the next step of this, which is sentencing. He's
up to twenty years likely very unlikely, Jared, you have said,
you know five maybe even that I hope happens. Look
is this could go a lot of different ways, I suppose, Jared,
Do you think that is true? Is this just now

(38:15):
going to be the beginning of lots more problems for Diddy?
Or is this guy just gonna pay his way out
of everything?

Speaker 6 (38:24):
Well, you know, it's hard to say. I think there
are people that want to put him under oath and
ask him questions in those civil lawsuits. So he's going
to have some tough days ahead, and a lot of
those days are going to be inside of a courtroom.
So this isn't Look at the Bill Cosby case. Cosby
was facing civil lawsuits, goes into a jail cell, gets

(38:44):
out only to face the music in civil courts. So
it's very much like that situation. So Diddy's life got
really really complicated after the Cassie lawsuit came out. He
was criminally charged and then just a parade of civil
lawsuits hit him. So he's even in his freedom, his

(39:05):
entire fortune is a risk as well.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
Oh, I have a question, what do you think are
you aware of the suit against his son justin which
did he is also brought into the civil suit alleging
gang rape and other things.

Speaker 6 (39:22):
Yes, I mean, I'm familiar with the allegations. I haven't
reviewed the complaint, but I'm certainly aware that that suit
was brought.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
What do you think of the timing?

Speaker 6 (39:36):
So the timing of these things is always significant, and
you wonder why was there a group of people trying
to resolve this before they brought the suit, because sometimes
that happens too. It's hard to know if you don't
know exactly what was going on behind the scenes. But
to hear that this case has come out when it did,
it's curious to me, there's no doubt. But timing is

(39:57):
important to being a claim that's going to get this
kind of attention too.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
How does he have so much money too? Is there
that much money in being a music mogul?

Speaker 3 (40:06):
I mean the.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Level of cash at his disposal is also something. I
just have had a hard time rapping.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Sixty million a year from Sarak. Whether that's changed, I'm
not sure, but that was Line.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Didn't make the vodka himself. Listen, we're going to be
right back, please, Jarrett, thank you. We're going to be
with us for the next hour. This is true crime tonight,
we're talking true crime all the time. Our documentary drops

(40:40):
tomorrow on Peacock and I really hope you'll watch and
please listen to the podcast on iHeartRadio called the Idaho
Massacre Really a shocking day in the courtroom, we're going
to be joined by Jarrett Farentino yet again. He's an
esteem trial attorney and also appears in the documentary, and
he'll be breaking down both cases for us. This is
one of those days that it's impossible to decide where

(41:02):
to begin. I think it's emotional beyond measure. The Brian
Coburger case will start there. Body, do you want to
fill us in on what this day has been like.

Speaker 8 (41:11):
Well, it's been a rollercoaster, you know, just as somebody
that's been covering it for the last two and a
half years. I'm sure as Courtney and yourself can attest to.
It's been emotional for us. And so I mean, putting
myself in the position of somebody that's a family member,
I can't even fathom how it's been for them. Right,

(41:32):
And today he stood in court and said he was
guilty of all four murders with intent He entered that
home with intent to kill and you know, I'm still
kind of trying to catch my breath a little bit, right.
We know, on Sunday there was a well, I'm sorry,

(41:54):
the defense approached the prosecution with asking that saying that
they were ready for a plea deal. On Sunday it
was offered to the defense from the prosecution.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
They accepted.

Speaker 8 (42:06):
On Monday, we were all informed the public, and Wednesday
today it happened. He changed his plea from not guilty
to guilty and basically said he entered that home with intent.
And the prosecutor, Bill Thompson, this is just a very
short overview of what happened. Prosecutor Bill Thompson stood up

(42:28):
and read through pretty much things we kind of already knew,
you know, through basic reasoning and things that we knew
from the PCA, the probable cause Affidavid that was released
in this case. And you know, as he ready he
got a little choked up. It was a little as
he said, the victims' names right, choked up. But yeah,

(42:50):
that's what happened today. And you know what, you know,
what's uh, we saw all the families. They weren't allowed
to be pictured in court, but we did. We did
i'd see them enter. Steve Consolvus, the father of victim
kay Lee Consolvus, did not go into court. He recognized.
We talked about this last night. He was very angry

(43:10):
and unhappy with the plea deal. He wanted basically, in
his own words, he wanted a jury of his peers
to rain judgment down upon Brian Coberger, not just one man,
which he considers, you know, the prosecutor or the judge.
I'm not really sure. And you know, you have to
respect his opinion, you know, I certainly can't put myself

(43:31):
in his his shoes to judge.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Him for that, you know, by any stretch of the imagination.

Speaker 8 (43:36):
But yeah, the only thing we didn't see, the only
family we really didn't see was Brian Coberger's family.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
They were there there, they were.

Speaker 8 (43:45):
There for Brian Enton sat behind them, our friend, Brian Nton.
He sat behind them, and he said that they were
not crying, but they were, you know, very sad. They
were very said, and I don't know who was there.
I don't know which family members.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
I had read one report that said that Brian Coberger's
mother shuddered at each victim when when Brian stood and
said Brian Coberger said yes, I murdered, or actually he
just said yes, but did you murder this victim? And
that his mother shuddered at each one?

Speaker 2 (44:15):
How could she not a human being? You know, Brian Coberger,
we've talked about this before. As the youngest of three kids,
he has two older sisters, one a therapist. His eldest sister,
you know, was also in a film that has gotten
a lot of you know press who was an actress
in like a B level movie many many years ago
that has, you know, a slasher film type vibe. And

(44:38):
I can only imagine how this has torn them apart too.
And Dad, you know, we were all watching this very closely.
You know, we made the podcast. We've been following this
all for years and years, and to your point, Body,
it's hard to imagine what the family members are going through.
We can't begin too, and our hearts go out to
all of them. It also has confirmed some of our

(44:58):
worst nightmares of the time line and that it was premeditated.
And you know, we couldn't wrap our brains around the
idea that this PhD student studying criminology could possibly do
this and pull this off, and to see him standing
there looking, you know, so well dressed, not in cuffs,
wearing a lovely button down like he was going to

(45:19):
a job interview, confessing to the slaughter of four people.
Is it's really just I think we've all been in
sort of a fever dream ever since, and I know
we're not alone in that. Anyone listening probably is feeling
a bit of that as well.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
That staggered me that he wasn't in shackles or in
prison garb. All of us on the show were texting
and tweeting each other while we were watching it, and
it was just it was unbelievable. But I do believe
that from every other court appearance forward there probably will

(45:53):
be few.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, there was still be in garb.

Speaker 8 (45:55):
There was a motion a while ago allowing him to
dress in playing clothes, and that has been rescinded as
of today.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
So he will this.

Speaker 8 (46:03):
You know, and the judge, you know, at the end
of everything, the judge asked the prosecutor and the defense,
is there any reason I shouldn't rescind the non dissemination order,
which of course is the gag order that's been placed
on this case. And the prosecution and defense both asked
the judge to delay that until after sentencing. Yeah, so

(46:24):
listen on November. I'm sorry, November what I had the
date of the murders on my head, which is sure
November thirteenth. Of course, July twenty third will be sentencing,
and you know, at that point the families and the
victims will be able to do a victim impact statement
to Brian directly and to the judge, and Brian will

(46:46):
have the opportunity for allocution, which is to you know,
make his own address to the court. I don't know
that he will.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
He is gutless. He will not know that.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
I guarantee you he will not. He just sat there
looking smug. Get my humble opinion. He showed no emotion.
He seemed just like a regular guy who just could
have honestly been working at a lovely insurance company tomorrow. Instead,
he has blood on his hands, has tortured his own
family in terms of putting them through this process, and
the victims' families now being brought together in one place,

(47:17):
but the first time in a really long time too.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
They had to schlep all the way.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
From all kinds of places because Brian Coberger needed a
change of venue and it's you know, harrowing to just
see him there so nonchalant.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (47:29):
Well, hopefully we'll get some answers for the family and
the victims, you know, of this horrific crime. At the
end of July. Maybe some things will be unsealed. I
think we'll get a dribbled rabble of information. Of course,
I know you're the.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Voice of the podcast the Idaho Massacre that we make together,
you know, again following it so closely. I think we've
always been a little divided about You kind of always
knew he was guilty as charged, and I think I've
always been sort of nervous about that, or it felt
maybe he was being targeted, Not that I knew, maybe
I just hoped. How was that today for you too,

(48:06):
to see that go down?

Speaker 4 (48:07):
I mean, you are right, we were on different sides,
had our own opinions, even though I do like to
think we made a really balanced both seasons, really balanced portrayal.
But yeah, from jump this guy, it just everything. There
was too much evidence that, oh, your DNA happened to

(48:28):
be there, however microscopic and all of the phone evidence. Anyway,
we'll break all of that down later, but today it
was very interesting, one of you had said, just hearing
bits of information that the judge said, and it all
did it just lined up like or excuse me that

(48:48):
the prosecution said with the dates, starting with the pool parties,
starting with all of that. So listen, we will be
getting into this, and we'll be getting into this with
Jarrett Farentino, legal expert later, but right now you're listening
to True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I'm Courtney Armstrong.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
I'm here with Body Moven, I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker,
and we're going to take a bit of a right
turn and go to the other breaking news today about.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Didty so did.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
He also had his day in court today for the
final verdict in his case that involved racketeering and sex
trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution. And the biggest
news is that Diddy was denied bail.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Today so he will not be going home. That was huge.

Speaker 8 (49:33):
Wait a minute, isn't the biggest news today the verdict?

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Yes, you're right, I was happy, you know, the verdict team,
and then it was hours to wait until he was
going to leave.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Yes, okay, here is the verdict. Stop right now. The verdict.
That is very fair Okay, So the verdict.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
Count one racketeering conspiracy not guilty. Count two sex trafficking
by force, fraud or coercion regarding Cassie Ventura not guilty.
Count three transportation do engage in prostitution regarding Cassie Ventura guilty.
Four sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion regarding Jane

(50:13):
Doe not guilty. Final count five transportation to engage in
prostitution for Jane Doe guilty.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
And certainly, you know, I agree with you that seemed
the verdict seems like five years ago for some time
in this particular day.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
You're writing the verdict in the morning, and then.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
The coburger hearing and the family members being there, and
as following that so closely in it. You know, again,
these are not relatives of ours, but it's just as
human beings. It's hard not to get swept away in
the emotion of it and just the raw guttural grossness
of it, like this guy's a devil at this point.
And I don't ever say that, you know, the boogeyman is.

Speaker 8 (50:51):
You don't mean you're very compassionate to everyone, You don't judge,
you are very so you're but you have a visceral reaction.
I can see you face. It makes me to say
Stephanie's face. She's very emotional about this.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
And why wasn't he emotional about this?

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, like even as he sat there today, just like yeah, yeah,
it's like did you order orange juice today?

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Yes? Did you order a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich? Yes?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
He answered this questions that this was like did you
murder a human being?

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
And of course And you can hear his own mom
gasping behind them. They had to schlep from Pennsylvania. Hits
such a humiliation for all involved, and man, what a
good liar. It's just it's unbelievable. And for the students
that were in his class that was so close, that
was dangerous. This guy was like out in the wild,
just you know, roaming around doing things for people. And

(51:44):
thank god it's over and he is never going to
be free. And I hope there's some semblance of closure
for his family. Sorry, quiet an't mean to interrupt her.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
No, listen, we have a lot tonight coming up. Veteran
trial attorney Jarrett Farantino, he will be joining us. We'll
be talking about both Diddy and Brian Coburger, and specifically
in the Idaho murder case.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
We're going to play a clip from the hearing today
in case you didn't have a chance to see it,
where Brian Coburger has to sort of face the music
a little bit, just to set the stage. A packed courthouse.
All of the family members on both sides of the
victims are present. Also, Brian Coberger's mother, father, and his

(52:27):
sister is also there. And that's a real rare thing
because the trial, if you'll remember, was moved to Boise, Idaho,
so it's a distance and they're only finding out about
this new information as recently as this weekend, so you
could emotion the imagine the emotions were high even amongst us,
and I'm sure for anyone who saw that today, it's

(52:48):
really hard stuff to watch. We just want to make
sure you're up to speed. This is a clip from
the hearing, Prosecutor Bill Thompson reading the course of events
that deadly night.

Speaker 7 (52:58):
As the defendant has just admitted and leaded guilty. On
November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, Miss Coberger entered
the residence of eleven twenty two King Roade in Moscow, Idaho.
He did that with the intent to kill. We will
not represent that he intended to commit all of the

(53:20):
murders that he did that night, but we know that
that is what resulted, and that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately,
with premeditation, and with mouse forethought. Manny Mogan, Kate we Consolfics,
Ethan Chapin, and Santa Cree. Thank you.

Speaker 6 (53:43):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (53:43):
He got a little emotional there. You can hear his
voice crack. Yeah, Now I started to cry. That was
hard for him. Well, listen, you know Bill Thompson's been
been I mean, he's been involved in this from the beginning.
You know, he's from Leytal County. He's the prosecutor of
the DA for Leytalk County. He's been on this sin
stag one since day one, and it's finally coming to
an end. And I'm sure you know, we know that

(54:07):
that some of the family members, specifically Xana Cronodle's family
and Kaylee gunnsolves this family, two of the victims in
this case, are not happy with Bill Thompson right now.
Right And aside from that, though, Bill Thompson I think
does care about these these these families. I think he does.
And I think this is you know, coming to an end.

(54:30):
And and even Bill Thompson, I'm sure wanted his day
in court, right. This is the case of his life.
This is the case of his life, and it's coming
to an end. You know, it's coming to an abrupt end.
I said something earlier today. What did I say? I said,
this is a I can't reme have to remember what
I said, but something like this is a whimper to

(54:50):
a loud nightmare. This is like I texted it to you, guys,
This is like a whimper to a loud nightmare. You're
getting choked up right now. You're getting choked up too.
It's it is.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
You know, we made the podcast the Idaho Massacre several
seasons of that. I think really we've always assumed that
maybe it was impossible that, or at least I'm speaking
for myself, just seemed impossible that this young man who
was you know, loved and had a big life ahead
of him could do this. You know, he was getting
his PhD in criminology. You know he went to class

(55:22):
every day. We know he went to class after the murders.
None of that really added up to me and if
he was such a smarty pants and studying this so closely,
he made some really bad judgment calls and it was
not the perfect crime. You know, Jarrett, I'm so happy
you're here with us. I mean, there's so much of
this that we want to unpack. I feel like we
need to hold you hostage at this point. I know

(55:45):
you're very close to it as well. You know, having
yourself been on that side of the equation when you're
gearing up for a massive trial, which was in this
case going to happen in August now is not that
must be emotional too, even as an attorney.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
It's like hitting a wall. I mean I've been there
on the even death penalty cases where they've pled you
physically prepare yourself for these, you know, months of your life.
You're getting ready to be away from your family, to
be completely consumed, and all of a sudden it ends,
and all those emotions, everything you were readying yourself for

(56:20):
comes with that moment. And I've been over I've been
overwhelmed with emotion in court rooms. I'm Italian, I'm an
emotional guy. And that's why you, Jarre, because your heart's
in it. If you don't care. People used to say, like,
keep your emotions out of it. You try that good luck, right.
I mean, it's like, you know, and if I don't care,

(56:40):
how do I get a jury to care? And that's
where Bill Thompson's heart is. That's where he's leading a team.
He's been beat up in the press. He's been dealing
with these families. He's looking evil in the eye when
he goes into that courtroom. He's dealing with an aggressive defense.
And today it's end and it's ending. It's just and
it's fair, and I think it's ending a good note

(57:02):
for him. And he's still dealing with some conflict.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I'll say, like all the families there, so many families
are out for blood on him now. And look, I
would imagine it's such an emotional thing. The grief is unimaginable.
That Yeah, if you're a family member, you want to
scream and yell and kick the walls and blame somebody somehow.
It doesn't matter that they're blaming Brian Coburger because he
seems fine. He seems like he's you know, going out

(57:27):
for a light lunch. So there may be directing it
at the prosecution, you know, it's a tough spots.

Speaker 6 (57:33):
He doesn't get social cues. Coburger, by the way, even
the way he was saying, yes, it's like is this
yere tuna sandwiches? Exactly the judge, it's like no, head down,
like yes, your honor, Yes, your honor, I did hack
these people to death. Like I mean, he's just social
his social no social norms. He just that's how he's

(57:53):
been described. If you read Howard Bloom's book, which I
know you haven't, and you talked to Howard Bloom, yes,
he really nils what Coburger was like.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Also in our documentary that I hope remember, it's important
to remember that Brian Koberger was diagnosed with autism, and
you know he's level one, which was.

Speaker 8 (58:12):
Formally known as Aspergers. So he is not going to
have the same social norms that we have, you know.

Speaker 6 (58:20):
And that that may be true, but that's how he
appears and it may be as a result of that,
but again, he doesn't He couldn't pretend to be somber.
He just doesn't get those social cues, and that's part
of why people see him in a certain light. I mean,
and I've had cases like that too where. But Brian

(58:40):
Coberger appreciates what he did. Although he's autistic and he
may not read social cues like everyone else, he certainly
can appreciate what he did was wrong, violation of the
law at all, of course. And I think and I
think that's part of what part of what put him
in the situation where he couldn't communicate with people, he
couldn't convey those verges he may have been feeling.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Yeah, that's exactly what we've understood with the people that
we've spoken to in and around the case.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
This is true crime to night.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
I'm Courtney Armstrong here with Body Move and Stephanie Leidecker
and attorney Jarrett Farantino, who is breaking down right now
the Coburger case, earlier the Diddy case. We've been bouncing
back and forth with all of the big court appearances today.
So what do you think what do you think will
be the next step? Is there any indication of if Coburger,

(59:28):
if there is a deal in place, that Coburger will
have to say, here are the exact events of the night,
or when would we know if that's a stipulation of
the aggreeation.

Speaker 6 (59:40):
It's very likely not going to happen on that factual
basis that was read into the record today had some
little additional details, by the way, but that is exactly
he's already admitted. That's the facts he's willing to admit to. Really,
I think the question is is he going to apologize
to the families. He's not going to give you a motive.
His motive is he's evil. That's his motive, and there's

(01:00:03):
no motive that would justify what he did. And I
know everybody wants to hear it. The reality is there's
just sick people in this world.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
I think he's going to talk to people.

Speaker 8 (01:00:13):
I think he is going to talk to people like
doctor Katherine Ramslin think people like that. I think he will.
I don't think he's going to alente.

Speaker 6 (01:00:20):
Down the road. He will, I think. But the best
these families can hope for during the sentencing hearing is
an acknowledgment and an apology. But I don't know if
you're going to get it. I just don't know. With
Brian Colberger and his personality, it's very hard to predict.

Speaker 8 (01:00:36):
Can you tell everybody what a non dissemination order is?

Speaker 6 (01:00:39):
So a non dissemination order is a gag order. So
basically that means the court cannot disseminate the motions that
have been under seal already to date, the parties still
can't communicate with the press about matters that remain under sealed.
And they extended that today to beyond the sentencing because

(01:01:00):
because and both sides, the defense agreed with that, and
the prosecution asked for it, because they don't want to
do anything to put the plea in jeopardy. The plea
really ends after the sentencing, so they don't want to
do anything that would jeopardize the case in the event
they had to put on a trial very very low probability.
So that dissemination order says Judge, we're going to continue

(01:01:20):
to respect the secrecy and the seals and the gag
order in this case.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
How long after sentencing do you think that will be lifted.

Speaker 6 (01:01:27):
It could be that day, it could be right after
sentencing is imposed.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Yeah, Like, I do find it shocking that he's not
being held accountable to actually give some information or some reasoning.
You know, again, you're right where we can never understand
fully this level of maniac behavior. But maybe that's why
we're all so curious about this case, It's like, is
somebody born evil? You know?

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Do they court? You know a body? You have a
great quote about this that kind of.

Speaker 8 (01:01:55):
Is something are you? I know it's a little something
you is evil, something you're born with or something you are?

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
Like is it?

Speaker 11 (01:02:03):
Do you?

Speaker 8 (01:02:04):
Are you born evil? Is evil something you are or
something you do?

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
Basically well, I think Brian Colberger has Brian Colberg has
been struggling with these things as far back as anyone's
been able to find. You know, his posts and his
teenage years and his looty issues, and he's just this
guy has had his struggles, There's no doubt. I mean,
and he did a crazy thing. It's a crazy thing

(01:02:29):
to do. This is someone who either suffers from an
infirmity or a mental health issue. Not insane, Not insane,
I'm saying, but this is a crazy situation that he
that he's in.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
You know, he had he has a history of a
drug abuse.

Speaker 8 (01:02:43):
You know, he has a history of being awkward his
whole life. So yeah, he's he's had a he's had
he's gone through it. He has had challenges to overcome.
And I don't think he I don't think he ever did.

Speaker 6 (01:02:55):
And I don't think that's not a violin plane for
Colberger question. That's those are the kind of things you
see upstream in someone's life where they're struggling in society,
and that's what he did. And again it may very
well have been his partially his diagnosis and that he's
on the spectrum and hiss aspergers, But my god, how
many millions of families address those issues and don't have

(01:03:19):
anything my own.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
My own, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
Listen more on Brian Koberger's plea deal, and we'll be
getting into the reactions from the victim's family. Thankfully, Jarrett
will be joining us, Jarrett Farentino, We'll continue. Don't forget
to call us. We want to hear your thoughts. Eight
at eight three, One crime, keep it here, True Crime.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Tonight, all eyes have been on Ditty watch and the
verdict is in not guilty in the Rico charge. He's
also not going home to noight. He is not free

(01:04:01):
on bail, but next step still to come in his
sentencing hearing. And then Brian Coberger, the boogeyman himself, maybe
even the devil himself, who has pled not guilty to
the hideous crime of murdering for incredible Idaho college students
back in twenty twenty two, has been claiming his innocence
the whole time, has now changed his plea officially too

(01:04:23):
guilty to guilty on all counts. And we have Jarrett Farantino,
the incredible trial attorney, with us again tonight, with so
much to unpack that it's almost as though we're going
to need to continue this for multiple nights.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
We definitely want to hear from you too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Please join the conversation eight eight eight three to one crime,
and we also have a talkback to go to.

Speaker 13 (01:04:48):
Shouldn't Brian Kohlberger be required to provide some kind of
insight that nobody knows about, or evidence or some kind
of statement to make sure that there is isn't any
sick goes out there doing any false confessions like we
know some people have done in the past.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
That's a good interesting point, Jared.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
You know you're here as our legal prowess on that one.
So I guess the point being is sometimes people do
make false confessions. Wacky as that seems, that is a
real thing. So is it customary for somebody who's admitting
guilt in a crime so large that has so much
you know, mystery around it? Do they have to like

(01:05:32):
give a little secret fact that nobody would know if
not the killer themselves?

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Jerreed, do you have an opinion on that?

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
Well?

Speaker 6 (01:05:40):
Absolutely, I think that's really blending two concepts. When you're
doing an investigation, you're looking for individuals who may not
may have information that was not made public, as like
in this shit of their guilt. What that question was
was basically, shouldn't Coldberger give us a detail that no
one else knew? Yes, he's not required to. What's required

(01:06:01):
is the state show the evidence. They have a factual
basis that supports that Brian Colberger is their guy, and
Brian Kolberger under oath is to say, I don't dispute
those facts. And what did they do by doing that?
They gave it the timeline today They said it's Colburger's DNA,
his phone, his car, The time adds up all of

(01:06:24):
his comings and goings in November. All of that, that
factual basis gives you Colburger, which avoids the very risk
the caller was asking about, which is false confessions. It's
called corpus DELECTI like if I came in and said
I killed JFK, for example, Is that true?

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
I didn't know that. That's a very interesting fact.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
That makes a lot of sense, though, because some things
are reported in the news or leaks in the press,
et cetera.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Something we all have to be very careful of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
So you could read that and then go to the
police station the next day and say, yeah, I was
you know this, this and this, and that's where they're
getting their information for the confession. That's a story for
a different day, and we should unpack that follow the confessions.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
What the I'm sure? Why am I not surprised by that?

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
I know everything?

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
I have a question for you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
In the plea deal, Coberger states that all for all
four of the murders were first degree. A lot of
people have surmised that Ethan Chapin, who did not live
in the house but was there with his girlfriend, was
collateral damage. Does that have any bearing? Yeah, explain that
to us.

Speaker 6 (01:07:32):
So the question would be, how could that be an
intentional killing if he didn't have the intention to kill
Ethan when he walked in the door. Is that that's
the question? Carect The answer is, you can formulate the
intent to kill sufficient to commit first degree murder. In
a fraction of a second. And the second he drew
that night and stuck it into Ethan repeatedly. He was

(01:07:54):
intending on killing him in that moment. And that's the law.
You know. It doesn't have to necessarily be lying in
wait or a pre planned thing. Premeditation can be the
blink of an eye.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (01:08:06):
So, Jared, you you've you're a former prosecutor, You've prosecuted
many cases. You've prosecuted death penalty cases. Right, you you're
negotiating a plea deal. Right, put your mind, you're Bill Thompson.
Can you make demands in a plea deal? Like you're
going to tell us where the knife is? Can you
do those things? As a prosecutor?

Speaker 6 (01:08:27):
You could certainly ask because you have leverage at that point,
and it's a deal, it's a plea bargain and remember bargain.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
And remember, Jared, the defense approached the prosecution, right.

Speaker 6 (01:08:38):
So I would you know initially in those conversations you say,
I have no interest in talking to Colberger unless he
tells us why or where the knife is. Although there
was a clue where the knife was today and we'll
talk about that too if you want to. But but
the key is you have leverage before the plea is entered.
You have leverage with your discretion to even agree to
the plea, and you say these are my terms. Now,

(01:09:00):
if the defendant doesn't agree to do that, can you
still move forward on the plea. Yes, that doesn't mean
you don't try to get answers to those questions, and
the whole deal doesn't blow up if you don't get
those questions answered.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Interesting, I do want to hear about your little sneaky
detail about that you're not getting any information away.

Speaker 6 (01:09:19):
But yeah, so if you if I was listening very
carefully to what Bill Thompson was saying, and he talked
about that, Colberger traveled thirty miles south to a seaport
village from Pullman, where he described large bodies of moving
water in that neighborhood in that area. Why, that's a
perfect spot to throw a knife.

Speaker 8 (01:09:40):
I don't think he threw it in ther Why because
he searched for a sheath on.

Speaker 6 (01:09:44):
The fifteenth, but his sheath was missed on the thirteenth.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
Yeah, he knew that he didn't have a sheath.

Speaker 6 (01:09:49):
Why, oh, saying he still had the knife, but still.

Speaker 8 (01:09:52):
A knife on the fifteenth I think I could be wrong.
Jared like, listen, I'm an idiot, So don't listen to me.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
You are not an idiot. You know, a fat body
move in. I'm just saying I'm not.

Speaker 6 (01:10:04):
Thompson really made a point to say he did a
large moving body of water far away to dump something. Right,
But that's a great point. He was shopping for a
replacement sheath, yep, a good point on the fifteenth.

Speaker 8 (01:10:18):
And he don't look for a sheet unless you have
a knife, right, Like he knows he doesn't have the sheath.
He's like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god,
oh my god, I need to buy a sheath.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
Well wait, I just want to play this out because
maybe I'm just slow right now and not tracking that.
So again he commits this murder. He gets in his car,
he realizes that he has the knife in his hands,
but he forgot the sheath, which is a little covering
if you're not familiar with knives the way.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
I wasn't familiar with what that was.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
So now you're like, oh my goodness, I left the
sheath at the crime scene.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
What am I going to do?

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
You dip you get rid of the knife in some
body of water. You still want to find the sheath,
right or no, what I guess I can use myself.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
And that's from the dateline leak, so it might not
even be true.

Speaker 6 (01:11:04):
For the sheep. They said that today. Oh okay, that today,
So he was definitely bout. That's the other thing. Bill
Thompson acknowledged facts that have been in the public but
never really embraced by him or his office, one of
which was Coberger was shopping. It's confusing sometimes when you
know this information, but then Bill Thompson acknowledges it today.

(01:11:25):
He basically said Colberger was on his computer shopping for
a replacement knife or sheath, right, and he tried to
delete his purchase history as well on the Amazon account.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
She tried and failed. You're listening's True Crimes tonight. I'm
Courtney Armstrong here with Stephanie Leidecker and Body Moven and
attorney Jarrett Farantino. We are discussing Brian Coberger is guilty.
Ply let us know your thoughts eight at eight three
one crime. One more follow up Jarrett on sort of
what you can or might try and demand does the prosecution.

(01:12:01):
I'm hung up on this because another case we don't
even need to go into the details, but it's something
Stephanie and I followed for years. It was a it's
called the piked in Massacre is the podcast, but all
for there were four people who were charged. It was
going to be death sentence trials, and then one of
them pled out and death sentence was taken off the
table for all four members if the first person who

(01:12:25):
did the plea testified to the satisfaction of the state,
and with that they gave all of the information, the
timeline of everything that happened, where where the weapons were kept,
which was in this case in concrete on the bottom
of a pond. So that was a big ask that
came through. Is that common or uncommon?

Speaker 6 (01:12:48):
Well, you know, it's a case by case thing. It
depends what a particular prosecution needs from defendant. In that case,
you have multiple defendants. Once you get a crack in
that can inspiracy and you have one of them singing
on the others, death can come off the table at
that point and you move forward. Death in that point

(01:13:09):
in that case is used as leverage and as a
way to put pressure on defendants, which prosecutors don't always
admit to that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
But they did do that, of course I wouldn't really. Yeah,
oh yeah, we also had heard. We talked about this
in an earlier segment. You know that the dad right
there was that infamous road trip, and Kaylee Gonzalvez is
father Steve Gonzalvez, who's obviously such a you know, he's
suffering so deeply. They all are, all of the victims'

(01:13:38):
families and you know, Captain obvious our hearts, so go
out to all of them. What an incredibly exhausting, disgusting
day they have had.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
He kind of made mention of the idea that Brian
Coburger's father booked his ticket to pick up Brian after
the murders to return home in the way Alantra for
the holidays to Pennsylvania, where he was later arrested.

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
Did you make anything of.

Speaker 6 (01:14:04):
That, Well, I was surprised to hear it. I was
always suspicious of that trip that Michael Coberger took in
the timing of that trip, but as you all know,
the RB was he had pre purchased that ticket some
time ago and was planning on making that cross country trip.
So that was the first time I heard it. If

(01:14:24):
that's true, he's calling Michael. He's telling Michael Coberger, I
know you're a liar, and you know I'm looking into
what you've already reported. So he's a group of investigators
working with him, mister Gonsolves. So I'm sure they found
that out.

Speaker 8 (01:14:39):
Jared, why do you think why do you think Brian
went back that morning?

Speaker 6 (01:14:43):
You know, killers go back to the scene of the crime.
It's just the thing. I mean. Was he going back
to see if there was any attention on the property yet?
Was he curious? Was he looking to fulfill some kind
of a sick fantasy to see the you know, the
criminal investigation that was falling out as a result of
his crime. Who knows, but he was, you know, he
went back and a lot of times just to see

(01:15:06):
the chaos and the breakage that remains from what he did.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:15:11):
Oh my goodness. Well listen, Jarrett Farantino. We want to
thank you so very much for being here tonight. You
make these really intense and complicated cases just a lot
more clear and yes, digestible, you know, the information. You
really help present it in an understandable way. All of
us at True Crime Tonight really appreciate and thank you
for that. If you love Jared as much as we do,

(01:15:32):
and you should, you can find him on the YouTube
series Primetime Crime, where he is a co host, and
as a host of the podcast True Grand Boss. And
also he is appearing in the Idaho Student Murders on Peacock,
which is dropping tonight at three am.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Hopefully we all get a little rest, yourselves included. I'm
sure anyone who has watched any television today has seen
some of these trials and it's kind of triggering and
a little heroin and a little emotionally disregulating. So again,
we've been so grateful that you've been with us tonight,
so we can all huddle up and this night has
flown by What do you guys think?

Speaker 6 (01:16:10):
Did He?

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
I'm just worn out. I feel I can't get over
that now.

Speaker 8 (01:16:16):
I just feel very numb to everything right now.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
And it's it's.

Speaker 8 (01:16:19):
Not about me, right, this is not about me. I
just feel there's a lot of emotion. You know, you've
got with Coberger. You know, specifically, you've got Cassie who's
terrified now that did He might be getting out on bail,
you know, and you know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
It's just it's just an emotional day. You know it's
been hard, it has, but we do have a talk back.
So let's see.

Speaker 4 (01:16:42):
Let's see what this person has to say about did
he hi?

Speaker 14 (01:16:45):
It's Cynthia from Canada callings to the Diddy case. If
he's acquitted on some of the charges, the prosecution can
appeal that decision if they believe there's errors in law.
Otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on. I
have to wonder why he has his children in the courtroom.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
I thank you.

Speaker 14 (01:17:03):
Given the content of the trial, it seems a little
coursive to me, but you know that's just my opinion
from being an outsider. Thanks have good night.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
You were in our heads. You know what.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Likely only a real bad boy right would allow his
daughters and family to sit behind him, knowing full well
that the information they were going to hear could harm
them and scar them traumatically forever, especially as young daughters.
And he was doing it selfishly, so he looked like
a loving father who was supported by his loving family.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
I think it's a choice. The theatrics were repugnant to me.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Nice coaty armstrong, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
I mean sitting there with a Bible, sitting there positive thinking.
I mean everything's a prop in his world, including his children,
is my thought.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
And they were there to make him.

Speaker 4 (01:17:55):
Look like an older gentleman instead of, you know, the
guy who did all the felonious activity that he did.

Speaker 8 (01:18:02):
And you know he why I read and I looked
at the courthouse sketches when they read the verdict. Did
he drop to his knees and just like praying and yeah,
I'll give you, like you said, the theatrics were spare me,
spare me. I kind of think he knew. But yesterday
they said he was very despondent, right like, oh, he
was just you know, over over emotional, But today he

(01:18:25):
was just apparently very grateful and praying and dropping to
his knees and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
And what will he do from here? Rights? Those what
are those prayers equal?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Is this going to be a bad boy turned good
and we're going to see a change in his ways?
Or is the revenge tort just about to begin?

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
Oh gosh, I don't know, it'll be it'll be very interesting.
But my real hope is that the judge, and of
course the sentencing is only there are parameters, sure, but
I hope he you know, hits the the further the
uppest levels of them, and if any indication by some
of the stuff, the judge said, using the defense's words

(01:19:03):
against him, he's like, listen, you said, he's a guy
who's beaten people, that he's been dangerous, and so I
don't know, fingers crossed, he gets a big sentence.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
That's the only thing I can wish.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
And just for victims out there, I mean again, if
you you know, if you've suffered at the hands of anyone,
you know, we're kind of all in this together, it
is not okay. And for Cassie Ventura and Jane Doe
and any of his victims personally, I throw in my support.
Took a lot of courage to put yourself out there.

(01:19:35):
We will be following, of course, more of this tomorrow.
So thank you for an incredible night, guys, for talking
through some of this scary stuff. We'll be back tomorrow.
This is true crime tonight, talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Good night, good night.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
Yes