Victim Identified in D4vd Tesla Case, Celeb Stalkers, and Tragedy in Mississippi

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,
and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,
it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true
crime all the time. It's Wednesday, September seventeenth, and we
hope you're having a good one. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here
of course, with Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
And what a day it has been.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
If your head has spin in and you're feeling a
little upside down, welcome, pull up a chair. You are safe,
and we are going to meet right here in the middle,
because guess what, we have a stacked night of headlines.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
We were talking about this story, I think last week
with Taha, fifteen year old victim, that little girl who
was found in the trunk of a tesla of the
singer David has been identified and David's concert in Seattle
has been canceled. FBI Director Cash Betel says that he

(01:09):
actually has never had a conversation with President Trump about
Epstein or the files, at least not directly.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
More on that to come.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
And also this latest setback in the road to freedom
for the Menandez Brothers, one more disappointment, So we'll be
unpacking much more than that as well. Doronto Fear, our
pop culture expert, will also be joining us later in
the show.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Always a good time, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Saying, and listen, we cannot forget if this is the
Big Wednesday, it's our true crime in chill night. Of course,
we've all been watching The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox
on Hulu, so good.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I hope you guys are all caught up.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
And if you watch the documentary that's great also because
again tomorrow Amanda Knox will be joining us for one
full hour, so we're so looking forward to it and
we're so happy you're here.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
So we're going to jump right in.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Let's start with this insane story about this four fifteen
year old girl.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Taha.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Since you kind of reported on this the first time,
do you want to set it up for us a
little bit?

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Sure? Yeah, it was a strange one when we talked
about it last week's Body. You were out at the
time and I had gone to miss some of this,
but it went from strange to now it's becoming really bizarre.
But in a nutshell, the decomposed remains that were found
in that impounded tesla in Los Angeles have officially been

(02:33):
identified as fifteen year old Celeste Revest. She was missing
from Lake Elsner, It's an area in California, and authorities
are still continuing to investigate the circumstances. In a nutshell,
it looks like Celeste disappeared from her home in Lake Elslore, California,
back in April of twenty twenty four, when she was
just thirteen years old. And what is really bizarre about

(02:56):
all of this is, after more than a year without answers,
her body was discovered inside a tesla that's registered to
twenty year old rising music star or artist David. He's
a singer that he's been on tour. He's I've actually
listened to some of his music.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
It's great.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
He's you know, he's really into it.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
He's good.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
But this whole thing is really strange, and I didn't
think a body knew about it. But of course the
crime analyst she is, she's like, I already know, and
I got some more stuff that you may not know about.
But one of the things that aside from the fact
she had been missing, and they found her body and
now they've figured all of that. One of the really
weird things is she has a tattoo on her right finger.

(03:36):
It's her right index finger and it reads shhh.

Speaker 6 (03:40):
Now.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
If you recall when we talked about this last week,
they saw that tattoo on her body. He also has
this same tattoo on his hand. So David the singer
has that similar tattoo. It's strange. I talked to another
friend who's like in the tattoos, He's like, that's a
popular tattoo the dots there.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
But strange is definitely having your car impounded and abandon
this strange part and having a fifteen year old decomposing
body in the front trunk of your tesla. That is
very strange while you're off on tour. You know, yes,
regardless of his great talent, and yes he's a rising star,
why is there a fifteen year old girl in your trunk?

Speaker 7 (04:23):
And mom Celeste's mom said that she had a boyfriend
named David who.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
She was worried about.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
She didn't even have good feelings about it and was
concerned for that relationship. She goes missing and now she's
in this trunk decomposing for maybe up to a month.

Speaker 7 (04:39):
Authority say, wow, and there's a lot of information that
I found. Obviously, we had a meeting today and we
talked about the story and I was like, I got
to dig into this, right, and of course I did,
And there's a lot, but I can't really talk about it, right, Like,
I can't, like say, a lot of the things that
I found because are not really substantiated. So I don't
want to, you know, mention too much much about what

(05:00):
I found. But there is pretty significant, I believe, pretty
significant social media evidence that they had a relationship. So
I mean, it's not that surprising because I mean, her
body was found in his trunk, right.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
That's surprising.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
She was fifteen years old.

Speaker 7 (05:20):
Well, yeah, that's the surprising part. What I'm saying it
is not surprising is that they knew each other.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
That's not the totally acvocate.

Speaker 7 (05:27):
And so because all the things that I have found,
you know, he has like a he has like a subreddit,
and there's a lot of posts there that predate that
predate her being found, mentioning her. Okay, so it's very interesting.
But again I don't want to repeat it because it's unsubstantiated,
and it's you know, social media chatter and whatnot.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
And I don't want to sure, yeah, I don't want
to stir that, not too much, but I.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Will there is a lot of information out there.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
There is a lot.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
And I will add they're saying that his real name
is David Anthony Burke, that they're saying he is cooperating
with the investigation. So there is that that we know
that he is working with him. But it all is
it's a little, I don't know, a lot of it.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
Just is this kid run.

Speaker 7 (06:08):
He's twenty he was a thirteen year old girl because
it's well twenty right there, correct, And she's fifteen. She
went missing when she was thirteen, so he would have
been eighteen, so he's eighteen years old.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
Ok.

Speaker 7 (06:20):
And he meets this thirteen year old, right, This is
the sod off? Yeah, yeah, this is the facts of
it all. And she goes missing thirteen years old.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
And that tattoo, so basically, if you're telling somebody to
quiet themselves, to shush, right, you pick your finger up
to your lips.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
That is a popular tattoo.

Speaker 8 (06:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I have seen that Rihanna has it, or there's ninety
celebrities that do. But when you're dealing with a very
very young girl thirteen years old and somebody who's a
bit older, what's the shush?

Speaker 3 (06:49):
What are they like?

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Quiet?

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Are they not sharing?

Speaker 9 (06:53):
Yeahs, you're not even allowed to get a tattoo. I
don't believe, not even old enough to have any tattoo. Also,
and body are correct. A lot of sort of what
has been posted but not substantiated, could be literally anything.
What we can say is that TMZ is reporting that
David they posted a picture of him right in the

(07:16):
area where the missing the now deceased girls Celeste live.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, they've posted pictures of them together.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yeah, there's actually a studio out there. You see them together,
which is another area of strangeness. Even if there's a
song I think you brought up where he is the
worst Celeste in it, which so.

Speaker 7 (07:32):
There's an unreleased it was an unreleased track and there's
lyrics and it's talking about how, oh Celeste, I'm obsessed,
you know, and he mentions her twice or a woman
named Celeste, not necessarily Celeste was the girl who's missing.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Her card dead and how Celests are there? And you know,
I mean that that's not an uncommon name, a beautiful name.
I might ask, what a terrible day for her mom?
I mean, this is such a tragic, unhappy ending. I'm
surprised we're not hearing more about it. It really hasn't been.
I mean, it's breaking more now. But you know, I
feel like we sort of talked about this early on.

(08:11):
Can you imagine, let's assume for a second that he
is innocent, and let's hope that's the case, right, that
there's no connection and this is just a terrible misunderstanding. However,
if that's not the case, if you knew that your
girlfriend or friend was in the trunk of your tesla
and you just left her there to decompose, and you
decided to go on concert tour, that's unspeakable. So we're

(08:32):
not suggesting that that has happened, because that just seems impossible.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Another really unusual thing. I think I mentioned this body
when you were out one of his hits, it's called
romantic homicide.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
Like it's just a lot of like, I.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Know that's a good song, too, right, it is.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
I know I even say that, but too much about it?

Speaker 5 (08:52):
That just isn't a tour?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Is he not back? And now I mean, is he
coming home do we know, or like coming back to
LA or like there have not been charges filed it
doesn't appear, or has he been arrested yet. But I
would have to assume he's a person of interest quite obviously.

Speaker 9 (09:09):
And as of right now, the medical examiner has the
cause and manner of death as deferred and in this moment,
the LAPD hasn't classified the case as a homicide because
there is no final autopsy findings. So that's what And yeah,
there's no suspect or person of interest.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Well, his best friends went on Twitch.

Speaker 7 (09:32):
Today and they say he's innocent, So we definitely want
to throw that out there that he does have people
on his side that are claiming that no, there's no
he's innocent for sure.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Okay, good, Okay, that's the case.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
I really do too.

Speaker 9 (09:44):
Time will tell and we will be following. We are
True Crime tonight and we are on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
lucky enough to be here with body Moven and Stephanie
Leidecker and of course producer Taha bringing in all the
hot stories.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
That was well done, by.

Speaker 5 (10:03):
The way, Wow, well thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
I mean, I have the best people guiding me along
with how things are done. So thank you to all
three of you. But but yeah, yeah, I love this.

Speaker 9 (10:14):
But yeah, please join our conversation, ed eate three one crime.
The more voices, the better. We want to hear any
of your thoughts on today's headlines or any other true
crime news you think we should know about. And now
I think we had another story to move on to.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, we could, or if you want, we could go
to a talk back because I'm here.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
Oh, let's do that.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yes, talk talk talks in the mix, Hey.

Speaker 10 (10:41):
Y'alls from Bama. Just the thought form. When the discussion
has reached the darkest part of the basement, we need
a little light. So after learning about BKA's search history,
and I'm not talking about that nasty stuff. I'm talking
about true crime stuff, have anyone gone back and looked
at their own search history and gone geesh, I'm one

(11:01):
Reddit questionnaire away from being a weirdes anyone?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Please just you? Of course not.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
We work in true crime.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
I've said this more times than I want to admit, Like, yeah,
our searches are of an insane person. We don't even
have surniums all day in autopsies. That's what we do
for a living. So yeah, if the room was like
checking out any of our search histories, it would be
a dark day, you know, even when we're like doing stuff.
I'm very conscious that I would say, like for the
show Curious About Oh, because out of context seem pretty grim.

Speaker 9 (11:35):
Well isn't that the neatest cover up Stephanie show.

Speaker 7 (11:41):
Just asking for Yeah, I mean my search history for
the past I would say probably fifteen to twenty years.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
It's pretty grim.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
Oh yeah, body, I can imagine yours is even mine.
Like I noticed a lot of articles just pop up
like beheaded something. I'm like, oh my god, what is this?
Like everything is now popping up instantly. It's a little Yeah,
I don't want anyone to see myself history.

Speaker 7 (12:02):
If people's search history was like viewable by other people,
literally nobody would be my friend, you know what I mean?
Like if Courtney could see my hurt my search history
and like I had just met her, like if if
it's a sign or something like above your head, like
a little bubble like this is.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Her searches, like literally, nobody would ever talk to me.
So I totally get what you're saying on the talk
back it's agree about this too on the show that yeah,
Brian Coburger. Yeah, it's not a great look that on
Christmas Day he was down the rabbit hole talking about
serial killers in his head?

Speaker 3 (12:32):
But or is it?

Speaker 2 (12:33):
He was studying criminology and a PhD student and that
was something of interest. You could see how that could
get explained away, I guess, is my point?

Speaker 9 (12:41):
Oh sure, right, yeah, although it can also bleed out
beyond the search the search term. So I am not
a gardener and I am not handy. All that to say,
it was one very strange day that I was helping
my husband put together an above ground like what is
it called.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
A raised garden.

Speaker 9 (13:00):
So he had a bunch of wood and I'm holding wood,
which since I'm not handy, I'm not used to and
whatever look I had on my face, He said, what
are you thinking about? And I said, I'm like, I
really understand how you could kill someone with.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
A two by four. Oh, because I'm not even making
light but I never held a two by four in so.

Speaker 9 (13:17):
Many cases, I'm like, I get it now.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I always wonder why are there's so many two by
four is available to everybody?

Speaker 6 (13:24):
Well?

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, yeah, so it goes beyond the screen, and.

Speaker 7 (13:27):
You know, Brian Coberger was he was doing more than
just searching for Serira killer stuff though right of course,
he was googling things like how to get rid of
his car.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
He was looking for a.

Speaker 7 (13:36):
New car and he specifically not white and specifically not
a Hyundai. You know, he was looking for you know,
validation on maybe if he's going crazy. He was looking
at wire tapping information, so he was doing more than.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Just and also the pornography that had a special slant
of drugged and completely passed out women. That's you know specific, Yeah,
that's very specific.

Speaker 7 (14:03):
So I mean when you combine it all, it's the
totality of it all, right, It's not just like the
single searches for serial killers or downloading specific PDFs about
serial killers. It's the totality of it all when you're
looking at like the bigger picture of everything. And he's
doing this at the Christmas time and he's getting more paranoid,
and you know, and it's just so interesting because he
just got to he gets arrested like right after, so

(14:24):
it's almost like he had premonitions of what was happening, right,
and he was getting kind of prepared for it. I
feel like because he was getting paranoid about it. You know,
I just think it's really interesting the timing of it all.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Well, go ahead, I was going to say to that end,
even just the news story that we heard today about
you know, Tyler Robinson, the accused in this assassination, how
he a detective turned him in.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Did you guys hear about us. We'll talk about that, lady. Yeah,
please more on that.

Speaker 9 (14:49):
Listen, stay with us, because when we come back, we
were going to continue what Stephanie was just mentioning. We're
also going to touch on the tragic hangings that have
taken place in Mississippi. Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

(15:13):
So it is true crime and Chill night. So we've
all been watching the really solid, interesting scripted series on Hulu,
The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
We hope you guys have watched.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
We'll be talking about it later in the show, but
we definitely want to hear from you, So leave us
a talk back or call us at eight eight eight
three one Crime and tomorrow Amanda Knox, as I've said,
will be joining us live, so we're really looking forward
to that. Also, there's been a lot of stuff in
the news, even Madeline McCann, you know, the person that
was brought in has now been released. Kind of a

(15:47):
major update on that case as well. We were just
talking about obviously there's been so much conversation about Charlie
Kirk and the man now accused of assassinating him, Tyler Robinson,
and you know kind of speaks to this detective. They
had a neighbor that was a retired detective who also
allegedly kind of recognized maybe Tyler and knew the family

(16:09):
and called into the police department and basically said, I
think I know the guy and I know the family,
and he was a very trusted person to the mom
and dad of Tyler Robinson. You can only imagine how
high stakes this must be. And you know, the parents
trusted him and they were really able together with this

(16:29):
great work from this detective to bring Tyler Robinson, you know,
into law enforcement and two authorities to turn himself in.
No shackles, no you know, swat teams in the house,
there were no helicopters above head. You know, we've seen
this play out. You know, Unfortunately, many times when heavy
artillery is added to the conversation, this was very calm,

(16:53):
you know, they say that when they actually walked into
interview Tyler for the first time again accused of a
political assassination, the whole world was looking for him.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
He was sitting on a couch holding a water bottle,
obviously very nervous and a little scared, and went off
without a hitch. So talk about really solid detective work.

Speaker 6 (17:15):
Wow.

Speaker 9 (17:15):
Yeah, more chaos is not needed in almost any situation,
and particularly not in really every situation that it feels.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Like is going on these days.

Speaker 9 (17:25):
So that is, you know, something to be said of
actually of handling a situation with care and getting it
and no one else is hurt and et cetera, and
things are not escalated.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
So thank god, thank you for sharing.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 7 (17:38):
So when in the charging document, when when he's talking
to his roommate and he says I'm going to turn
myself in the neighbor is a sheriff or something like that,
I wonder if that's who he's talking about.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, I wonder if it's a trusted friend. And I
guess again, this is a nightmare. We hope we never
find ourselves in. But imagine you have a friend down
the street and suddenly you see them on the news
being accused of something that you can't believe. You know,
we just talked about, you know, this pop star singer
musician David who's now being associated with this fifteen year
old girl found in the trunk of his tesla. Yeah,

(18:12):
his friends are saying he didn't do it right, and
by the way, maybe he didn't do it. That's gonna
be a hard place to be when you see somebody
who care about, somebody you love being accused of something
so massive.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
What do you do in that situation.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
So it sounds like they all did really the perfect
thing and it really did really hard.

Speaker 7 (18:33):
Yeah, that's got to be difficult. I would do it.
I would turn I would turn you in, Stephanie.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, I know you would take me.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
You would take me right, you would make me turn
myself in, but.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
You will go.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
I would turn all of you in.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, don't tell her where the body is.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Very no, but it is true, Like that is the
answer you do have to a person in their vice.
And it's difficult as that must be. But if you
love that and maybe you stand with them or stand
behind them and make sure.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
They get there safely.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
But yeah, that's a menace to society obviously, obviously. Wow, well,
thank you for the clarification.

Speaker 9 (19:12):
Again, this is certainly an unfolding story that needs all
the clarification and certainty as possible. I have something else
about Lyle and Eric Menendez, who of course were convicted
of killing their parents back in nineteen eighty nine. We
have discussed them several times on the show, specifically with

(19:33):
Robert Rand, the journalist who's covered their story since the
day the murders happened. So they were denied a new trial.
Los Angeles judge has ruled that the newly presented evidence
that the Menanda's brothers brought forth and it spoke about
evidence of alleged sexual abuse, and the judge said, listen,

(19:56):
it would not have altered the original jury's decision.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
And so that is that. So no new trial in
this moment. That's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah, so they so.

Speaker 7 (20:11):
They went the habeas corpus, right, this is what we've
been waiting for.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
This is what it's right.

Speaker 7 (20:15):
But this is what the news that we've been waiting for,
because they really thought that if the jury had known
about this, that they wouldn't have been charged or convicted.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
How they were right, that's the whole thing. So this
is it for them.

Speaker 11 (20:28):
Now?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Now they have to wait, is that right? Do they
have to wait?

Speaker 8 (20:31):
Now?

Speaker 9 (20:32):
They have to wait until the next parole comes up,
unless something else happens with the Habeas corpus. But as
of it was two days ago, specifically, it was September
fifteenth that the judge William Ryan rejected the habeas corpus petition.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Excuse me, so that letter, basically what they're saying is
that letter that proves there was abuse in the home,
and it was written prior to the murder, a couple
of years prior to the murder a time. Wow, I'm

(21:10):
really surprised by that.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah, I am too.

Speaker 9 (21:12):
And the brothers, you know, they have long claimed that
the murders were motivated by years of abuse at the
hands of their father, was Menendez, and also with their mother,
Kitty Menendez.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Who's study to them. Yeah, and their parents are so supported.
I will say, this is a complicated one. I'm not
even sure how I feel about this. I do feel
for them in that it was such a big performance
this time last year, you know, what was it? They
were going to be home for Thanksgiving last year, Remember
that was that, right, that was a big push and
they were everywhere, and you know, there was a big

(21:47):
election happening in Los Angeles. It all seems now in
retrospect extremely performative that potentially the person who was now
running for re election at that time, you know, thought
they could probably kind of you know, capitalize a little
bit on the frenzy and the media of getting these
Menendez boys in front of the cameras and probably gave

(22:09):
them a lot at the time.

Speaker 7 (22:11):
At the time, it was just it was just after
this big social media push, right because Monsters had just
come out, and there was a lot of people advocating
for you know, their release or you know, some sort
of leniency, right, and so now it's done, right, so
they jepp away for parole now again.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, well we're assuming it's done. But you know what
I would love to do is I would love to
have do you remember Robert rand the author, and he
basically to me gave the impression that things might be
changing with him with their situation. So I'd love to
invite him back to get his intake.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Or isn't I always talking to him? Yeah, because he's
just he would also suggest that it's very common for
these roadblocks to happen at this stage and going up
for appeal sometimes it takes four or five, six times.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Okay. However, there was a lot.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Of media attention and a lot of you know, big
important attorneys that were front and center basically saying the
Menanda's boys were coming home. Remember when they were just
in the hospital, the whole hospital stint. They were going
to go home after that. And it must be very
hard to reacclimate once you taste the idea of being released.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
And the hope. I mean there was on that front.

Speaker 9 (23:31):
There was a post very recently by Lyle Menendez on
his Facebook page and he called the ruling mental gymnastics exercise.
So it is, and you know, Governor Newsom was hot
on the case. Everyone was swept up. If I'm not mistaken.
Kim Kardashian was.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah, it was into it.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
But listen, everybody was into it because there was a
lot of chatter. There was a documentary. There was this
very fancy scripted show. It was a cloudy right, it
was current. It was a way to be a part
of a very popular conversation, and that to me is
also really dangerous it is because you're using that as
a reason either. I don't know. I'm not to say

(24:12):
saying this is fact, but it has been implied by
many that that election here in Los Angeles at the
time played a big part in the menendeg ways, and
I could imagine that's probably really a tough thing to
reevaluate from.

Speaker 7 (24:27):
Wow, Well, we're gonna have to keep following this because
you know, we're gonna have to wait for parole now,
I guess right, or if there's any more developments, we'll
bring them to you. This is True Crime Tonight than iHeartRadio.
I'm body movin and I'm here with the lovely Courtney
Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker and Taha on the microphone. We've
been giving you all the latest headlines in the true
crime news and right now we're going to go to
a talk back.

Speaker 8 (24:47):
What do we got, Hello, ladies, This is Jennifer from Texas.
I was just watching my local news and saw a
story about a young African American student found hanging from
a tree in Cleveland, Mississippi. What is happening?

Speaker 5 (25:06):
Question?

Speaker 8 (25:08):
I don't understand, but hoping that you could maybe talk
about this and cover this story. Thank you all so much.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, this is pretty pretty grim.

Speaker 7 (25:18):
So Monday, just this week, Monday and the fifteenth, early
in the morning, campus police found the body of a
twenty one year old university student, Trey Reid, hanging from
a tree by the pickleball courts of Mississippi Delta State University.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
It's very tragic.

Speaker 7 (25:37):
Authorities are currently they're reporting no signs of foul play.
So he doesn't have any like abrasions, there's no sign
of assault, there's no indication of what happened. Reid's family
the victim in here, you know, by all intents and purposes,
it's a victim from you know.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
What I can tell you. He's hanging from a tree.

Speaker 7 (25:58):
Well, in the initial the initial report said that it
was a suicide, the initial reports, And I don't know
if that's still accurate because there's not really a lot
of information coming out. But the family of Trey Reid
has hired civil rights attorney Ben Crump, and you know,
Ben Crump is demanding transparency through you know, a thorough investigation.

(26:23):
This case was followed hours later, you guys, by reportedly
unrelated another hanging death of another man about one hundred
miles away, so Trey Reid, you know, he was a student.
Authorities so far reported, like, again, no sign of physical
alter ate, you know, trauma or foul play. The county

(26:45):
coroner stated Reid had no lacerations, contusions, fractures, or injuries
consistent with assault. And the idea here might you know,
and I'm a layman, right, but the idea here is
if that he was forcibly hung murdered, right, there would
be some kind of indication that he was assaulted, knocked
out maybe, you know, but it's you know.

Speaker 9 (27:08):
It could be drugs like I was gonna ranked or something, yeah, someone,
or he was drugged or incapacitated, yeah, in any way,
and this happened. But also I'm very surprised that even
all of this no foul play, the autopsy is still underway, right,
the preliminary results are not even out right, So this

(27:30):
is what feels like to me to be a rush
to judgment.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Is concerning.

Speaker 7 (27:36):
Local authorities have added that there are videos and they're
in the hands of the investigative team. So I'm not
sure if there's like a CCTV situation or if somebody
was you know, filming on their cell phone. The family
has asked for people not to look for the video,
so I didn't. You know, I'm trying to be respectful.
I wanted to go and see what videos were out there,

(27:56):
but I haven't. But again I wanted to. But the
family and I've asked for you know, not for people
to these videos. The again, the attorney, he's pretty famous.
I've heard Ben Crump many many times, and they were
calling for full transparency sight or they're citing lingering questions
and concern over possible bias in early conclusions because again

(28:20):
initial reportings that it was a suicide, and they're saying that
might be bias.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
So we're gonna be see for diology. Yeah, right, what
might be biased? We're doing an investigation. Why are we
jumping to conclusion that the man hanging from a tree
in Mississippi.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
In Mississippi, I know, in the climate right now, you
hear that, I know.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
I know. It's the president of the university.

Speaker 7 (28:47):
His name is Dan Ennis, and he's acknowledged, you know,
the emotional historical weight of this imagery surrounding his death. Again,
like I said, this is Mississippi, Mississippi burning, right, this
is how it starts so it's it's very scary. Congressman
Bernie Thompson has called for a federal investigation, citing Mississippi's
history with racial violence.

Speaker 10 (29:07):
I don't.

Speaker 7 (29:08):
Yeah, so that's we're gonna to keep following this and whatnot.
In just hours, again, like I said, there was another man.
Just hours after Reed's body was discovered, a thirty five
year old white homeless man was also found hanging from
a tree in Vicksburg. Police currently see no connection between
the two cases. It's one hundred miles away, you know,

(29:30):
so I'm not sure. Again, it was just hours later,
so I don't know if there was enough time for
somebody to get over there, or you know, if they're
related in any capacity. But we're going to continue to
follow this and keep everybody updated.

Speaker 9 (29:44):
And I want as ridiculous as it seems, I mean,
I guess context of how many, if any hanging by
trees happened in Mississippi. I'm not being facetious, but no,
I know, oh yeah, there's no connection, and there's this
prolific I'm unaware of.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Let's dig in.

Speaker 7 (30:03):
I mean, I haven't heard of a hanging by tree
in decades, decades, decades and decades and decades, So listen,
stay tuned. We're gonna go over the primary suspect in
Madeline McCann's case is getting out of jail. We'll be
sharing all the details, and later we're going to be
unpacking the Amanda Knox case in a recent scripted series.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
We're True Crime and Till and listen, a very busy
night of headlines tonight. So Madeline McCann, we've all been
following this case, let's be honest, for decades. The main
suspect has now been released and that's kind of a
big deal, so we're going to break down a bit
of that. And also later in the show, Dorono Fear,
our pop culture expert is here to talk about some

(30:43):
very high profile stalking cases, Rebecca Schaeffer specifically. I don't
know if you guys remember my sister Sam that show,
So we'll be digging into that as well, and True
Crime and Chill, the twisted tail of Amanda Knox. We're
going to be digging into our true crime and Chill,
So we're excited to get your opinions. Eight eight eight

(31:04):
three one crime and yeah, ladies, where should we begin?

Speaker 9 (31:09):
Might as well start with Madeline McCann. You know, as
you said, she has been on our radar since two
thousand and seven. At the time, Madeline was only three
years old and she is from the UK. She was
with her family vacationing in Portugal and her parents were
having a dinner really nearby their sort of holiday apartment

(31:32):
that they had set up and continually going back to
check on the kids.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
She then went missing.

Speaker 9 (31:38):
And then just recently, Christian Bruckner, who has been the
primary suspect in the disappearance of Madeline McCann, he's been
released from prison. This happened in Germany. It happened under
strict probationary conditions. And yeah, he was driven discreetly way

(32:00):
from prison by his attorney under a late police escort.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
And he was in prison for assaulting an elderly woman, right.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
That's right.

Speaker 9 (32:11):
Yeah, So he was in prison for a two thousand
and five rape of a seventy two year old American woman.
And this crime also happened in Portugal, right.

Speaker 7 (32:22):
And remember just pretty recently, just a few months ago,
the Portugal police, the country, the police started searching areas
that he had been staying in. Remember that in the
German the police were assisting in these searches. So they
didn't find anything. But if you remember, quite some time ago,
his home in Germany was searched and they found like

(32:42):
a stash of hard drives and thumb drives and things
like that with a bunch of really inappropriate images on them, remember,
And they found a little.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Bathing, little little strange little girl's clothing like baby suits,
I think if I'm remembering correctly, which was all a
little bit daunting, right.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
Wow.

Speaker 9 (33:02):
Yeah, So that was all around the rescuoir of his house,
and as you said, it was international search is However,
he's never been formally charged. There's been insuffesion evidence despite
small girls, bathing suits and other insanity.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
There has him living in the area at the time.

Speaker 7 (33:24):
Right, There's many circumstantial things, circumstantial stuff, right right.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
And there was child pornography. I think we're dancing around it.
Am I saying that? Am I overstating? I think it
was child pornography?

Speaker 5 (33:36):
No?

Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
I think that's right.

Speaker 9 (33:40):
So this man, he's going to be under five years
of probationary supervision. That means he's going to be wearing
an electronic ankle monitor, and the Germans will keep him
in their line of vision.

Speaker 7 (33:54):
Wow, well, we're going to keep an eye on this
because that case needs solved. I mean, it's been so long,
and I mean I feel terrible for the parents. They
were really put through the ringer.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Oh, I mean there's still through the ringer because you
can never really rest. I would imagine if your child's
you know, death is not solved, or you know, there's
no real clarity ever given. Yeah, it's a daunting, horrible thing.
I feel like every story we're talking about involves young
little children and some level of pedophilia, which is you know,

(34:29):
which is just upsetting.

Speaker 7 (34:30):
So I guess he's also going to be back though
in front of the judge in October. He apparently allegedly
insulted a prison staff member and while on appeal and
it remains pending on his acquittal for unrelated sexual offenses
in Portugal. I think I said Germany earlier, but it
was in Portugal, his home in Portugal where all these

(34:51):
hard drives and when how we're found. So he's going
to be back in court in October. Well, I mean,
I didn't know what's insulting a prison official was a
prime I didn't if.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
You're in prison, you should not insult the official.

Speaker 7 (35:03):
Well, I mean you shouldn't because you're treating you know,
maybe it would affect how you're treated, But I mean
they do right, Like these are prison guards or you know,
I'm sure they get meat up quite a.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Bit, right.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
I would ever beat up a prison.

Speaker 7 (35:16):
I didn't know it was a crime. Well maybe in
Portugal or in Germany.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
It is Germany.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
In Germany, we're gonna have to see, so stay tuned
for that. We have a talk back. Can we hear
a talk about.

Speaker 12 (35:26):
I just wanted to take a minute to thank you
to you for how they welcome students back today. My
son was so anxious last night before school, but he
came home saying how safe and cared for he felt today.
He noticed highway patrol officers on campus and boos with
things like free produce from me the greenhouse and even
three hugs from fellow students. The kindness TV show today

(35:49):
makes my mom heart so proud.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Oh thank you you?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Okay, so on cause you couldn't hear that super clearly
because that sounded a little mumbled on my side, But essentially.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
This is a mom of a student. I get a
little choked up.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
I know, I'm a little just got like we all
just got a little choked up. Whose child returned to
school after you know obviously what we've all been, you know,
really from the killing of Charlie Kirk at the university.
So again, these kids have witnessed far too much and
the healing from the trauma that they have experienced is

(36:27):
legit so very big day to day.

Speaker 7 (36:30):
She said, and again, in case you couldn't hear her,
she said that there were people offering free hugs.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Oh that's so sweet.

Speaker 7 (36:39):
Honestly, so sweet. I could really use I'm serious, I
get up in here.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
We could use it right now.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
I love anxiety.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
I'm sure I speak. I'm sure I'm not alone. But
my anxiety has been awful since I returned from vacation.
And I mean I've been nauseous every day, every single day,
and so I'm mean I can't and I wasn't it,
I wasn't even there, So I can't imagine, you know,
how these students must feel.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
And I just think it's really nice at the school.

Speaker 7 (37:10):
I just I just I congratulations to that that the
you know, that university.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's pretty who's done such a great job and also
collectively listen, all of us and you know, hopefully not
all of us, but so many of us collectively have
witnessed seeing murder. You know, we've seen too much, right,
so of course we're all feeling on edge. It's incredibly
appropriate and I think it's a level of tension that

(37:35):
we just haven't witnessed to this degree before. And I
think you know, some free hugs are do for all. Oh,
no doubt, no doubt. Wow. I just that just really
touched my heart. This is true crime tonight and my
Heart Radio. We're talking true crime all the time.

Speaker 7 (37:52):
I'm body moved and I'm here with Courtney and Stephanie
and taha wo, taha welcome. If you have anything you
want to say, give us a call eighty eight thirty
one Crime, or hit us up on the iHeartRadio app
and leave us a little talk back and we're going
to hear another talkback right now.

Speaker 11 (38:07):
Hi, chikas, I just wanted to leave a quick talkback.
This is Mary Kay from Cincinnati, Ohio, and I have
a brother that's actually a furry and I can just
tell you it's like an anthropomorphic thing and it's not
sexual in nature at all.

Speaker 7 (38:25):
Yeah, that's important to note. So I think what she's
referring to is what was engraved on the cartridges in
the rifle that was used to murder Charlie Kirk right
on the casings. It was written or engraved I'm not
sure exactly the right term views, but it said notices bulges.

(38:52):
What's this, right? And it's in relation to a really
old meme. It was like in twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen,
and it's kind of like poking fun at like the
furry community. And you know most furries listen. It's anthropomorphized
animal characters. It's like they take on a first sona, right,
it's what it's called the first sona.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Like they wear furry.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Outfits, yeah, a little furry costume. It's just as I
was being a bear for Halloween. It's like dressing up
like a little bear, right.

Speaker 7 (39:21):
And it's you know, they'll usually have like an avatar
that they'll use within their little furry community. It's completely innocent.
There's nothing you know, crazy about it. But this meme
is really old. It's you know, again, it's supposed to
be noticed as bold ooh what's this. That's how it's
supposed to be said, right, not you know how they

(39:41):
said how the governor Utah read it? You know, but
he doesn't know, you know, I mean, how do you
explain this stuff to people like like I think I mentioned, like,
how are we supposed to explain this stuff to people
like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and Lindsay Graham, Like
They're never going to get this stuff right? Even I
have a hard time getting it. And I'm like in
immersed in it, so I understand, and you know, it's

(40:02):
it's complex, right, Are you.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Saying that's agism? Are you? Are you saying at all?
I'm listen, I'm fifty A certain age can't understand a meme.
You have to give everybody a little more credit. Let's
maybe I do. And it's it's not that they don't
understand the meme. I just don't know that they're exposed
to the culture. True, you know what I mean. It's
not it's not you know, it's not I'm not understanding
the meme. It's understanding the meaning behind the memes.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
And you can explain anything. I mean. I mean, thank you,
by the way for the talk.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, I love it because I loving that is it
makes me smile from ear to ear.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
So yeah, it's just a you know, it's it.

Speaker 7 (40:46):
And when you read the charging document, it's it's intentional
and it's not you know, any side, it's not any
kind of ideology. According to the charging document, he did
a patrol, right because he says in the charging document,
if I hear them say this on Fox News, I'm
going to stroke out or whatever. He might explode whatever
he said. You know, he's it's a troll. It's it's

(41:08):
it's chronically online behavior, I'm telling you.

Speaker 9 (41:12):
But also troll is you know that usually that verbiage
is used for what you do online to go after someone,
but you know, taken to this realm when taking human
lives is a form of trolling.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
It's trolling.

Speaker 12 (41:30):
I r L.

Speaker 7 (41:31):
It's trolling in real life in it and you know,
and you used to only troll on the internet, but
trolling has moved off the screen. You troll people in
real life now. And it's terrible, absolutely terrible. Obviously I
don't have to say that. I mean it's awful. You
never go to real life ever.

Speaker 9 (41:50):
No, And people can also many of us can also
take it down on the internet as well.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I agree. I heard the most really great advice. We
have to be teaching each other and reminding ourselves and
certainly anyone of a younger age. If you don't like it,
turn it off.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
We actually have the power.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
It's like we all are feeling so powerless and we
feel like we don't have control and the world seems
so scary and big. Hey, guess what if that's bringing
you anxiety, turn off the TV. If being online it's
triggering you, put down the computer and put the phone away.
I mean, we actually have the ability to say no.

Speaker 7 (42:34):
So you want us to live in like little house
in the prairie land, or I'm gonna read a book
like what I gonna do?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
I get a kick out of watching my Bravo shows.
They don't stress me out. I love Instagram. I love
seeing my buds from high school buy a house or
have a baby. I think it's like it actually brings
me joy. If it was triggering me and making me
sad and depressed and feeling disconnected from the world, guess what,
I could put that away and maybe do something else.
What if it's your job, then you should get a

(43:01):
different job. We should rethink the job. If your job
is to be a web that is. Honestly, they go
hand in hand. We suffer with this. I mean, we
talk about very dark things and we have to get
tools to manage how we handle hearing this much dark stuff,
and we talk about this to nauseum, and we all
have our version of how we manage that emotionally. But

(43:22):
I do think we all need to be proactive and
productive about having conversations about not how bad it all is,
but what can we be doing personally to make it
better for ourselves, for our families, for our friends, and
for each other. Period good points, am I on a grandstand?

Speaker 3 (43:40):
I don't mean no, I.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Think that's a really good point. And the sauce a
little bit. Yeah, we're all talking about things.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
That like, oh, didn't get off the dark Web.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
I don't know, we're all done this, rabbit holes.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
And the lows.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
This is on the regular Internet, this is not the
dark Web, off the art Internet. Then if the furry
is making you that crazy, do you boo if you
want to dress up in a furry outfit and live
in an alternate universe, God bless, it has nothing to
do with me. I could actually not participate, So I know,
I'm simplifying, but I don't know. I heard it this

(44:14):
morning and it kind of hit a note.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah yeah, and you can.

Speaker 9 (44:18):
I mean, body, I know you said you can't turn
it off, but you actually can. You can read a book.
Anyone can read a book, right exactly. And as you
said when this, you know, this weekend, for example, before
it's time to prep for the show, I deleted all.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
My social media from my phone.

Speaker 9 (44:38):
I'm like, you know what now because everything got too
loud in my head.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
And so you can.

Speaker 9 (44:46):
Actually, the world will keep revolving if you're not online.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Like you came back from your week off and you're like, hey, guys,
what did I miss?

Speaker 3 (44:53):
How did it I did?

Speaker 2 (44:55):
We We were like because I wasn't working well and
it's so wonderful, right, so you know, we can all
look out for each other. But again, you know, there's
easier start to unpack, easier said than done. But you know,
food for thought. I would say, food for thought.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
How's that? Well? Listen, make sure you stick with us.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
If you've missed any of the hour, you can of
course catch it right after as a podcast. It's really
right after. It's a couple of hours later. But we
definitely want to keep hearing from you. When we come back,
we're going to be talking to pop culture expert Dorano Fear,
and don't forget True Crime and Chill. We're discussing Amanda
Knox true Crime tonight.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Will be right back and listen.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
It's a heavy week, we can all acknowledge it, but
we have some really interesting stuff coming up. We have
pop culture expert Dorano Fear. He's going to be sharing
some of these wild celebrity stalking stories and listen, you know,
True Crime and Chill. It's happening. It's our Wednesday, the
Twisted Tail of Amanda NOx. So dare I say? Amanda

(46:04):
will be with us tomorrow for a full hour. We're
getting lots of talkbacks and lots of questions, and we're
just really excited to hear her tell her tale for herself.
What an inspiring story of survival and resilience. Resilience, what
a great word, right, Yeah, you know, great humans are
sometimes built on really tough times, and I have to

(46:27):
assume she is one of them. And look, we have
a couple of more headlines to get to body. Where
do you want to begin?

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (46:34):
Do you guys remember that of course, we remember the
Charlie Kirk assassination. We all saw it on you know, unwillingly.
And do you remember the guy who got like like
initially arrested the old man.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Well, she was confessing to all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 7 (46:48):
Well we were curious, I'm like, what happened, right, So
we dug into it today. And his name is George Zinn.
He's a seventy one year old man. He lives in
Utah and he was arrested right after because he was
falsely claiming responsibility for this assassination of Charlie Kirk. And
you know, he caused a lot of confusion and delays
in the immediate aftermath of the shooting at the Utah

(47:10):
Vality University. And apparently it was all intentional. He did
this on purpose. So he approached police officers after the
shooting and he was like yelling, I shot him, now
shoot me, despite having no weapon on him. Right, His
false confession led to his arrest and briefly misled police
in the media about the identity of the shooter. So

(47:32):
later he admitted he made this false claim get this,
you guys to draw attention away from the real shooter.
And he said he wanted to be a martyr. Apparently
he wanted to get shot and die as a martyr.
Like what this guy's saying. But this, get this, this
is this is the clincher. A search of his phone
revealed child sex abuse material. He now faces four counts

(47:57):
of sexual exploitation of a miner. What the heck is
going on?

Speaker 2 (48:03):
He's got some troubles. I get I know that he's
kind of crisis. What is with the world right now?
I feel like I'm losing my mind here?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
No, I know.

Speaker 7 (48:12):
So he was booked into the Utah Honey Jail, also
charged with obstruction of justice, obviously because he interfered with
his investigations. You know, he held up law enforcement for
quite some time. They thought they had the guy. He
confessed to it. What a lunatic, What an odd thing.

Speaker 9 (48:28):
Also, so let's assume, which we have every right to,
that there is no connection between this man and the
actual suspect. In that millisecond of chaos in which he
raises his hands and says, I shot him. Now shoot me,
like to have your brain, you know, flick from something

(48:50):
terrible just happened to Oh, I'm gonna claim it. I'm
gonna be a martyr. Get me in this who.

Speaker 7 (48:58):
Doesn't like in the splits second he decided I'm going
to use this opportunity.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
It's so bizarre, don't you think, Oh yeah, I think
it's real bizarre.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
I do. I think it's bizarre.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Do you think do you think there's something there?

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Stuff?

Speaker 5 (49:12):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (49:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
I listen, I don't know, you know, I I'm you
know again, I'm on the internet and I see a
lot of the chatter.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
I am stuck on two issues.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
I'm stuck with uh Tyler Robinson in his clothing change.
I know we discussed this last night, but it still
serves as a hiccup for me, Like where you do
know where the change of clothes on the rooftop? Because
you know, we've seen the video of him running across
the roof in black. It appears did he changed there?
And I think he changed?

Speaker 3 (49:41):
What was the screwdriver for?

Speaker 5 (49:43):
Like?

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Did you really take the gun apart?

Speaker 9 (49:46):
Or for this?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Just the scope?

Speaker 7 (49:48):
Like listen, he's I'm not trying to be too you
know what. Everybody's like lining the sites right, you know.

Speaker 6 (49:53):
Like.

Speaker 7 (49:55):
Because he was a good shot, and I don't listen
if you're a gun person like a right. I have handguns,
but I've never shot a rifle, believe it or not,
and I'm I'm literally assuming it's to adjust the scope.
If I'm wrong, let me know, give us a call.
Eighty eight thirty one Crime. I'd love to hear what
you think the screwdriver was for. I think it was
so just ae scope?

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Was it? Detective Jay? Yesterday? I wish we'd had this question.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Jay has been in my head a little bit, asked
you too. Honestly, she posed a few questions and I
have pondered them. Again, these are not my original thoughts.
I'm just seeing this chatter online and you know, look again,
we just were talking about it. I think it's really
traumatic as a country to witness such violence. We've all

(50:40):
we cannot see it, right, So I think we're all
kind of healing from the trauma of what we've seen. Again,
we're a little more conditioned to it because we see
this stuff so often, but you know, Kit and most
people don't, nor should they, So that makes me kind
of sad. And then yeah, there's just little pieces of
it that I find confusing, like this man, for exact ample,
just in the instant when the still mayhem was happening,

(51:04):
you know why.

Speaker 7 (51:07):
Like he takes he's weird. He's like, has he been
waiting for this chance? It's just bizarre. It's just bizarre,
and I'm listen, I'm kind of glad he did. I mean,
it's terrible that he held up the investigation, but all
you know, they eventually we got the right guy, we think, right,
So all's well that, I mean, that's a terrible saying
for the situation. I shouldn't say that, but he held

(51:28):
up the investigation.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
It's terrible.

Speaker 7 (51:30):
But if he hadn't had done that, they might not
have found this information on his phone and he'd be
out there doing it to other kids maybe.

Speaker 5 (51:36):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Right, Yeah, that's so.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
I mean, it's kind of maybe a hidden blessing. I
don't know, but it's weird, messy, it's just very very weird.

Speaker 9 (51:47):
Yeah, well, listen, if you have thoughts on this really
bizarre incident and apparently very bizarre man, give us a
call eight at eight three one crime. We are true
Crime tonight and we want to hear from you. Or
you can always send us a talk back on the
iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
You just go to the upper right hand corner.

Speaker 9 (52:09):
There's a little microphone you press that, you leave a message,
and you are on the show. So I wanted to
move on to Lil Nash, Lil Nas.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
X, I love Lil Nod.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
He's been through it, litl Nos had a little totel. Yeah,
even to see him in his little tighty whities walking
down so my heart kind of broke for him. Me too,
I do you like him?

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah, me too?

Speaker 9 (52:35):
So last month it was it was an unsettling moment.
So you know, he's a Grammy winning artist, and he
was arrested last month August twenty first. This happened in
Los Angeles after he was allegedly walking naked and public
and engaging in a violent altercation with police officers. He's

(52:57):
facing four felony charges and including three counts of battery
on law enforcement. But speaking of as you were saying, body,
try and find a silver lining, he is now receiving
treatment out of state while his legal process continues.

Speaker 7 (53:16):
So I hope he gets better, you know, I hope
he successfully goes through treatment and he gets better.

Speaker 9 (53:23):
That's right, So you know, whatever he is going through personally,
Little Nas has not personally commented on real recent developments,
but he previously did share that the incident itself of
when he was walking around in his underpants was terrifying.
His next court hearing is scheduled for two months from

(53:44):
now November eighteenth, and again he will be in an
impatient treatment facility out of state. The judge, I'm really
thankful to hear modified the conditions of his release.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
A lot, allowing him to remain out of state.

Speaker 9 (54:03):
Yeah, exactly, and then further discussions will evolve if his
status changes to outpatient. But you know, if help is needed,
let help be given. Yeah, and okay, there we go.

Speaker 7 (54:19):
Do you guys remember I have another one kind of
in the same vein, Well not really, it's another celebrity
since we're since we're kind of in this vein, right,
do you guys remember when Beyonce got her car broken
into or a choreo the choreographer, the choreographers car broke.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
On the back seat?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yes, unreleased fresh music, right and like that's a lot
of money right on a thumb drive apparently?

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Well, uh, he's been.

Speaker 7 (54:47):
On July eighth, just before Beyonce's cowboy Carter to stop
in Atlanta, choreographer Christopher Grant and a dancer had their
wrangler the their jeep wagon air broken into, resulting in
that the laptops, does I items and a flash dry
containing unreleased Beyonce music. I mean, this is a lot
of money on this thumb drive right well. Kevin Evans

(55:10):
was arrested on September sixteenth in Hatefield, Georgia for parle
violation and booked into one kind of entering an automobile
with intent to commit theft. So they got him, they
got him. Wow, Yeah, very interesting. So he is suspected
of sealing those slash drives, the concert setlist and show
footage from the car.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
None of the hard drives have been recovered. They can't
find them, so maybe he sold them. Well we don't
know yet. We're gonna find out. But they can't find
any of the digital information that he stole. So her
music is still out there, unreleased music.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
And the tour plans and.

Speaker 7 (55:47):
The tour plans, but I don't think I mean to me,
the tour plans don't seem like you know that big.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
I don't know if it's that big of deal. Maybe
this is I'm not in the industry. I have no idea,
But like the unreleased music.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
That's huge. That's huge, But I disagree.

Speaker 9 (56:02):
I think that the tour plans also, it would I
have to imagine that it would have been hundreds of
thousands of dollars of artistic director's time. Like how detailed
are these plans, We don't know, but if it involves
lighters or you know, lighting direction or any choreography or
any oh's assuming I mean, maybe really beyond hundreds of

(56:27):
thousands of dollars.

Speaker 7 (56:27):
I just kind of assumed that when they say tour
plans that it's like already she's already been on tour,
and she's already done those things, so they're already known.
That's kind of what my assumption is. So I guess
I didn't really think that was kind of that big
of a deal. But like the costumes and in designer
clothing and some you know, the laptops and all that,

(56:47):
you know, those have monetary values, But like the tour plans,
I didn't think, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Are you in the industry, call me, let me know.
Eight eighty thirty one crime. But I really just didn't
think it was that important of the tour plans. But
maybe it is. They have found him, so it's all
stole up in the air. I want to know what's
doing with Diddy? What I was doing with Diddy? Well,
you're a ditty girl's right around the corner, no.

Speaker 5 (57:10):
Bend.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
So what's going to happen? Do you think sentencing? He's
told that he's really hopeful that some of his former
escorts will be at sentencing and kind of helping along
the sentencing process, really like in support of him, to
support him, yes, really just sort of stand in alignment

(57:32):
with him. What about the victims? I think that we've
heard that we don't care about victims when you've gotten
the note, body, come on listen, I'm already having anxiety.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Don't say I'm hitting I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Of course they do, and they certainly do here, But no,
I think there's any victims coming forward. There was a
lot of chatter that that was going to get moved up.
I thought to September twenty seventh, but it doesn't appear
that's the case. It seems October third. Is it seriously
almost October?

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Yes, we're more than halfway through.

Speaker 7 (58:04):
It's so hard because it's still one hundred degrees where
I live, so it's still so hard for me to understand,
like realize that, yeah, Halloween's on the way, Like, yeah,
I signed.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
A check and I wrote April. So there were times
in my messy head yeah I wrote Cheapril. Yeah who
writes checks? But who even has a check book? Yeah
it's me in nineteen eighty one. But yeah, wow, wild times.
So October third, are we going to be Maybe we
could get our friend on oh inter City to pass

(58:33):
ookline and Synker into that one. I mean there's a
lot of things happening in relation to that. I mean,
obviously Diddy's been very quiet, so there's been some time
and some space for his team to recalibrate and to
sort of figure out what next steps will be. Like,
it appears that it's possible he would walk very soon thereafter,
and that time served would sort of that's what's going

(58:54):
to happen.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Yeah, it's possible. I think I wouldn't be gigantically surprised either.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I mean, if that's not what happens, should we take
a bet?

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:04):
It sounds like we're all the same thing. Yeah, maybe
I think we're each other. Yeah, like we need what
do you guys think? Do you think he's gonna walk?
I think it's pretty clear that he's probably gonna walk.
He's been probably on his best behavior, hanging out with
you know whoever he hangs out with, Luigi et cetera
at you know jail and Sam Altman his uh, you know,

(59:26):
good old roommates and and yeah, and don't forget you know,
alex Acosta. And the Epstein case is in front of
the House Committee on Friday.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Really, so that will be telling you.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Is well, are they gonna be talking to him about Florida? Yes,
They're going to specifically be speaking to him allegedly, allegedly
allegedly about why Epstein got such a cushy deal when
he was originally charged and pled guilty to sex trafficking
charges involving a minor back in two thousand and seven,

(01:00:01):
two thousand and eight, and why he was allowed to
leave his jail unlike any other prisoner or any other
pedophile or sex offender.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Why him Why could he go home?

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Apparently because there's no victims and he never trafted anybody
to anyone, probably that's probably the truth of it. And
why was there a cushy deal? And maybe more significantly,
why was there a deal struck so that any co
conspirators could not be charged in the future. And by
the way, even why would you have to have that
if you if you had co conspirators, doesn't that in

(01:00:34):
and of itself suggest that there was something to conspire over? Right?

Speaker 7 (01:00:39):
But I mean we just yesterday in front of Congress
we learned that there were no no, he didn't traffic
anybody to anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, only know himself, apparently only to himself. And I
guess that Maxwell getting transferred to a low security prison
just two days after, you know, speaking out was maybe
interesting timing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
And yeah, that even.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Our FBI director who says there's nothing there is saying
he actually hasn't spoken about there. So we're coming back,
Dorono Fear, stay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
With us to crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Now a very favorite pop culture expert, Dorno Fear, is
here in the house.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
Hi, Doron, Hello, Hello.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
So we're just, yeah, we're trying to make a little
sense of all all of this world. So I think
something productive is to think about some of the cases
of yesteryear that we can glean some good info from,
giving us sort of a Hollywood celebrity spin.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
You're going to bring us some of these.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Cases that you know, we haven't talked about in a while,
like Rebecca Schaeffer, for example, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
So where would you like to begin, Well.

Speaker 6 (01:01:53):
I mean, I just think that when dealing with the
concept of Hollywood, you know, and fame, and whether that
fame is television, film, or music, or in our current day,
which would be anybody on social media that becomes influencers,
whatever that is, there's a dark side. And that dark
side is that you are putting yourself out there, regardless
of the fame of whether it's actually you or a

(01:02:15):
character you portray, and it attracts stalkers. And you know,
they used to say this kind of inside joke where
it's like, if you don't have a stalker, you're not famous.

Speaker 5 (01:02:26):
But that is a really dark and morbid point of
view of this.

Speaker 6 (01:02:30):
And you know, I first, as somebody who's always been
a pop culture fan, I the first time it really
kind of dawned on me that there are people lurking
in the shadows was the case of Rebecca Schaeffer. And
for those that don't know this, you know, let's go
back to nineteen eighty nine. It was Scrunchies, It's Gottley Girls.
It was a time of amazing music and small culture.

(01:02:54):
And Rebecca Schaeffer was a young Hollywood starlett she was
America's sweetheart. People Forrest fell in love with her when
she was on One Life to Live, which was a
daytime so and I remember that That's exactly how I
first was introduced to her, because my mom used to
watch One Life to Live and I used to watch
it with her, and there was this pretty, curly haired,

(01:03:14):
you know, snow white looking girl. And then she got
her big break by being on a monster sitcom and
it was called My Sister Sam and it starred Pam
Daber on it, who was from Morgan Mindy fame, and
she played sort of this adopted in.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
Order correct by her aunt.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
So it was two young women, you know, living life
in Hollywood.

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Right now.

Speaker 6 (01:03:37):
Being that she was America's sweetheart, she got the attention,
unfortunately of a guy named Robert John Bardo, and Robert
John Bardo became delusionally obsessed with her, and he followed
the footsteps of a different stalker from just a few
years prior. So I'm going to pause on Rebecca Schaeffer

(01:03:59):
and take you to the root of this. In nineteen
eighty two, a beautiful actress named Teresa Saldana, And for
those of you that don't know who she was, she
starred in Raging Bull and on a television series called
The Commission, and she had been being stalked. And this
was one of the first real stalking cases where a
deranged fan was writing letters and tracking her down. And

(01:04:22):
this is a time before you know, social media, where
it was so easy to find somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
Oh, it's so hard now I means so easy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Now I should see so easy and it's hard.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Yeah, so you're talking.

Speaker 6 (01:04:31):
March fifteen, nineteen eighty two, poor Teresa Saldana was coming
home after jogging to her West Hollywood apartment in Los Angeles, California,
and she was attacked by Arthur Richard Jackson. He was
a Scottish drifter and he became obsessed with her after
seeing her on screen and he loved her in Raging Bull.

(01:04:52):
He stabbed her ten times in front of her West
Hollywood apartment and the only reason she survives was because
a water delivery man, a sparklets man and for those
of you on the West Coast, you know we all
love that sparklesschool fresh water. He had tackled him he
jumped out of his van and tackled him and pulled
her off of him in a bloody rage. And she

(01:05:12):
survived that, and the delivery man was heroically and created
a hero that man. Arthur Richard Jackson served fourteen years
and was later deported back to the UK. He was
like a Scottish drifter.

Speaker 5 (01:05:23):
And a homeless man.

Speaker 6 (01:05:25):
But that was the first time Hollywood had ever seen
anything like it before, and the warning shots fell silent.
And that is where I bring but go back to
Rebecca Schaeffer.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
In eighty nine because it was a it was a mimic.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
So John Bardow tracked down Rebecca Schaeffer using the same
methods that Arthur Richard Jackson did, which was this Richard
Jackson paid fifty dollars to a private investigator claiming that
he had been hit by a vehicle, using her license
plate as a way of finding out her home address.
And that's how he found Teresa Saldana. And that's exactly

(01:05:58):
the way that John Barco.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Schaeffer so deron. That is amazing.

Speaker 9 (01:06:03):
I had never heard that story, and I'd yeah, I'd
never heard that before. So was Rebecca Schaeffer's had he
had this plan being concocted for quite a while.

Speaker 6 (01:06:14):
Yes, he obsessed on Rebecca Schaeffer and he believed that
he was in a relationship with her. And then she
starred in a I think a made for TV movie
called The Class Struggle in Beverly Hills, the and sort
of caf where she ended up in bed with a
man because you know, she really was in her twenties,
but she always played a much younger role in My
Sister Sam and he became so outraged by the visual

(01:06:34):
of her in.

Speaker 5 (01:06:34):
A bed with another man. Oh my god, really he
decided to kill her.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Wow, Well this is true, Grampton. And on our Heart Radio,
I'm here with Stephanie and Courtney Allison. We're joined by
Doronto Field and he's giving this incredible story of what
happened to Rebecca Schaeffer and I am on the edge
of my seat drown please continue. Yeah, and by the way,
Rebecca Schaeffer too. This was also at a time that
celebrities at that time kind of lived in the wild, right,

(01:06:59):
like you could we know where Rebecca Schaeffer lived at
the time of her murder, for example, and it's just
a regular street like you could access it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
So easily.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
And these are the kinds of stories that have made
celebrities have to put themselves behind gates and hedges and
have security and and and and which is also kind
of and drivers and drivers and weapons, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:07:23):
But you know, it's also a failure.

Speaker 6 (01:07:25):
It's a failure of law enforcement on this situation because Bardo,
first of all, after the Teresa.

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
Saldono, there was an outs al Dona, there was.

Speaker 6 (01:07:33):
An outrage about protecting the privacy of people, and her
stalker so easily got her home address, and it was
eerily similar because he attacked her out front. The difference
with John Bartow is that he actually went and knocked
on Rebecca Shaffer's door earlier on the same day, and
when she opened the door, he basically came with flowers
and she said, oh my god, thank you. She was

(01:07:54):
flattered by it, and she said, you know, I, you know,
please please contact you know, send my agent and I'll
send you sort of assigned photo.

Speaker 5 (01:08:02):
And that was common back then.

Speaker 6 (01:08:04):
You would send letters to celebrities and they would send
you a signed photo. And the problem with John Barto
is that he was suffered from something called delusional intimacy,
which is basically when a stranger becomes obsessed and delusional
about the relationship that they have with their obsessed their
obsession and Rebecca Schaeffer. An hour after that happened, he

(01:08:24):
came back and he rang the doorbell, and she opened
the door once again, thinking she was receiving a script,
and he shot her point blank in the chest and
killed her. And that became front page news all over
the United States, and she was.

Speaker 5 (01:08:37):
At the time literally America's sweetheart.

Speaker 6 (01:08:39):
It was the same example of almost at the time
of ET where Drew Barrymore was America's Sweetheart, but Drew
Barrymore was a much younger version and the innocence was
then shattered. That was the first time ever in the
United States that California actually stepped up and created stalking
laws anti stocking laws, So by nineteen ninety it reshaped

(01:08:59):
the privacy protections around DMV records and the public access
to addresses up until that time, which is why today
you cannot just get someone's address based on a license
plate or a name, and it's protected by law enforcement.
And that's really the only main law.

Speaker 5 (01:09:14):
That became feral.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
That's not true though, right like you can find out
information on people. There's so many data brookers, but not that.
I would love to know how we can can protect
ourselves that way because it is pretty easy to find
those addresses. We could do that, Stephanie. Would we do
like a segment on how to scrub your information? Yeah,
from those data brookers? Can we do that next week?

(01:09:35):
I think that's a really could productive thing.

Speaker 9 (01:09:38):
Yeah, I mean Tokyo, you can find you really can
find verify you see.

Speaker 6 (01:09:43):
Well, I can tell you, I can tell you, unfortunately
that it's very difficult to do that in today's day
and age, simply because we give away all of our
privacy rights the second you sign up to any social
media company, the second you have a credit card, the
second you use in ATM, and phone records, electrical records,
leasing in in, it all becomes a public record. So
even data brokers that promise to erase you for a

(01:10:06):
monthly fee, they'll do it constantly, but they're constantly repopulated,
so it becomes part of your budget, unfortunately, monthly, and
that's just try and stay anonymous. And even then it's
only secondary. And that is really sort of the tragedy
when it comes to losing privacy in our privacy in
our lack of privacy world.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
And that's what I mean by fame can happen at
any time.

Speaker 6 (01:10:28):
You can become famous for, you know, being funny on
the internet.

Speaker 5 (01:10:31):
You can become famous for creating being pranked.

Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
Like unbeknownst to you, your roommate, like you know, does
a funny scare Brank and then suddenly you're all over
the internet and somebody sees you, obsesses over you, makes
delusional fantasies about you, and then shows up at your house. Right,
And I can tell you that it has happened repeatedly,
and I use celebrity angle as you know the reason,
and I can go into different variations of stalkers.

Speaker 5 (01:10:54):
But more on the same line of this, it's Sandra Bullock.

Speaker 6 (01:10:57):
You would think that an A list actress like Sandra Bullock,
with all of the money in the world, could protect herself,
and she was unable to do that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
And in twenty fourteen, on June eighth, she was.

Speaker 6 (01:11:08):
Home, she was in bed, and she heard something and
in a terrified moment of hysterical panic, she leaped out
of her bed, locked herself in the closet called nine
one one. And you can actually google and find the
nine one one tapes and they're horrifying, and she's breathlessly
in the closet, calling the police and saying that there's
somebody in her house and there was. And the problem

(01:11:30):
with that one is is that she had known about
Joshua James Corbett, who broke into her home for years
given sending letters and calling her his wife, and had
imagined and obsessed about their non existence relationship. The police
knew about it. She even hired extra security and fortified

(01:11:51):
her home. And somehow this man found a way in
through a sliding glass door that he was able to
lift off of its frame and enter her home. And
when the police came, they caught him. He didn't realize
that she was in the closet, by the grace of God.
And this is Sandra Bullock, you know this isn't you know?

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
And and Star Block I know either were Sandy Bullock?

Speaker 6 (01:12:13):
Yeah, Sandy Bullock Block I like her in the proposal,
so you know that. And it's crazy because she even
couldn't get a.

Speaker 5 (01:12:24):
Full restraining order on him.

Speaker 6 (01:12:25):
She didn't know because there was no way to serve
him because he was doing anything digitally.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
And by the way, even serving somebody a restraining work,
he doesn't mean. Also a very complicated thing and not
very easy to pull off at all, just a PA
and all it also could you know, aggravate the person.
I don't get me started. I can talk about that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
For ten weeks.

Speaker 6 (01:12:45):
She tried, she tried everything, and you know, one of
the letters that he had sent her was all about
him being her wife and that her child was his son.
So she was going into a child in endangerment situation
that he's threatening my son. And that didn't really help
in any way in the police either. They just couldn't
really figure it out. And you know, again he was
diagnosed with delusional intimacy escalating into an home invasion.

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
That was what he was charged with.

Speaker 6 (01:13:09):
He was convicted of stalking and burglary, you know, and
he was arrested at the scene, but he did receive
probation and mental health treatment. And in twenty eighteen, during
a whole other when he was free, by the way,
a whole other police confrontation, he ended up killing himself
rather than being arrested again. So you're talking a line
of violence that escalated throughout and going back to the

(01:13:32):
Rebecca Schaeffer case. You know, he is in jail. He
had two consecutive life sentences, but that was because there
was no disputing the brutality of the crime that he
had done to her, and there was multiple witnesses. So
you know, we are looking at a time when safety
is paramount and it doesn't matter how wealthy or how

(01:13:53):
famous or how connected you are.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
It's unfortunate and it's something.

Speaker 6 (01:13:57):
That is a price you pay for in a way
as a trade off when it comes to fame.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
But even fame, I mean everybody's on social media. There's like,
you know, many versions of fame, right you're seeing into
people's lives. We talk about this quite a bit, but
even just being on Instagram or any of these platforms
and you're you know, you're showing your your home because
you're so excited you just you know, moved into a
new place, or you got maybe a new car, or

(01:14:22):
you're selling brading Christmas with your family around the Christmas tree,
and there are all of these identifying things in the
picture about your house and where you live. And it
could make somebody like Brian Coburger who maybe obsesses from
a distance it might be giving out too much information
and we're not even realizing it, right, and it's not

(01:14:44):
and it's.

Speaker 5 (01:14:45):
And it's in everything. Can you post a picture?

Speaker 6 (01:14:47):
Do you know that every photo you post on Instagram, Facebook,
or any social media has metadata on it? And what
that means is that the photo that you see, all
you have to do is write click on it, and
it gives you all the information of the location of
where that photo was taken. I have time, the date,
it's geolocated.

Speaker 5 (01:15:03):
Like so true.

Speaker 7 (01:15:06):
Well the way when Facebook strips it, thank god, but
Instagram they did. Instagram just did the stupidest thing. I'm sorry,
but they just did the stupidest thing. They introduced those maps.
Have you guys seen this on Instagram? So you have
to go turn that off. When you upload a photo,
it has all that information Ron said delocation, But now
you can go to the maps and see.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
Where all your friends are or the people.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
You have to turn it off.

Speaker 6 (01:15:30):
Think about it on your own photo stream when you
look at it on your own computer, and you can
break it up by location. Every photo you've ever taken
has a geotag on it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Yeah, So, like sometimes you'll get those pop ups on
your phone like to what he's talking about, and it's like,
remember your trip to Brazil in twenty nineteen, and it
shows you all the photos.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
That you took.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
That's what it's using. It's using the geolocation.

Speaker 9 (01:15:50):
But on Instagram right now, there's a feature where everyone
can see all of their friends. Y.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
Yeah, that's what where are saying that, I'll send it
to you immediately.

Speaker 6 (01:16:02):
It's basically like so that if you're like out and about,
you can track your friends at a bar. They're playing
those kinds of games, and it's a The geolocation became
super popular on dating apps, especially in the gay community,
which is where it kind of began. And Grinder, which
we've heard all sorts of salacious things about this dating app.
They were the first to really create this app, and
they've got billions of dollars for that technology, and that's

(01:16:23):
why that company is going public. But they lost all
privacy with that, and that means that you can see,
you know, who's with you fifteen feet away.

Speaker 7 (01:16:30):
Right Well, stick around because we've got more to dig into. Luckily,
Doron is going to stay with us here and we're
all going to unpack our true crime and chill. Pick
of the week the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. Plus
we're announcing the next thing we should be watching, keep
it right here, True Crime tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
And listen, we've beginning a joozy of information about Rebecca
Schaeffer and just stalking in general. And I think next
week we'll do a big segment and maybe a real
big unpack about certain ways that we can all protect
ourselves online and sort of some of the basics, because
it seems as though the rules are changing real time
and there are certain settings that we should all just

(01:17:18):
be aware of in our phones, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
But listen, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Want to overlease switch gears too quickly, deran to do
anything else in your story that you wanted to share,
or should we move on to true crime and chill?

Speaker 6 (01:17:30):
Well, I'm all about the true crime and chill at
this point because I have chills, and if this is
a subject that people are more interested in, I'm always
happy to come back.

Speaker 7 (01:17:37):
Well, I'm interested. I'd love to have you very interested.
I'm very interested in this, so good to always.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Have you back. So okay, here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
Let's I feel like we need like a trumpet or
some sort of like music cue to introduce this Wednesday
Night true crime and chill duding.

Speaker 5 (01:17:56):
I mean, is this like the Italian like a medic song?
I mean, because we are going into Amanda NOx, right,
and that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
We go out here.

Speaker 6 (01:18:07):
Yes, well, Amanda, that Hulu series is blowing up, and
it's a fascinating take on it. I don't know if
you guys have been talking about it.

Speaker 5 (01:18:18):
That's the doc, right, that's the part, so you know,
it's funny. I'm all caught up on it.

Speaker 6 (01:18:23):
I remember when the Amanda Knox thing first started, and
that was like a two thousand and seven and I
was like, oh my god. Yeah, And you know, for me,
as somebody who had studied abroad, it was very telling
that like, you could go abroad with all the high
hopes and all the idealism and all of the magic
of experiencing life from a different point of view, and
you get to be free in a culture that is

(01:18:43):
foreign to you, that lets you grow, only to find
yourself in a worse situation, whether doing something terrible or
being accused of doing something terrible, and lose your freedom completely.
And I think that that's a really terrifying take about
the Amanda Knox story.

Speaker 9 (01:19:02):
Yeah, for anyone who doesn't remember because this was a
long time ago. This was again two thousand and seven,
which you know, eighteen years ago. So Amanda Knox, she
was an American woman. She was really more of a girl.
She was nineteen at the time, and she went abroad,
as Doran suggested, she went to Italy, and she became

(01:19:24):
embroiled in a case that a murder case that brought
international absolute rabid coverage, and it was very complicated. She
was convicted, she was later.

Speaker 5 (01:19:39):
Acquitted again, and then acquitted again.

Speaker 9 (01:19:43):
Exactly, and she spent four years in an Italian prison
before finally definitively being acquitted by Italy's highest court. That
was ten years ago, in twenty fifteen. And yeah, it
was into national as I said, attention, and this.

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
Poor girl, she was referred to as a.

Speaker 9 (01:20:07):
Foxy nooxie and as a nineteen year old girl, everything
about her personal life was exploited. And this happened after
her roommate, another girl named Meredith Kersher, was murdered in
Italy in the home that they were sharing together, which
ultimately led to Amanda Knox and her then boyfriend Raphael

(01:20:29):
Solicito their arrest and a very controversial interrogation and an
unbelievably I guess, just Unamerican, because as you will learn
when watching the Twister Tail of Amanda Knox, to learn
about the Italian court is unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
So yeah, you guys, what.

Speaker 6 (01:20:51):
Well, listen, you know, there's a lot of things about
this case that can be brought up. First of all,
this is Shakespearean, It is the Crucible. This any way
you look at it, whether there is a division on
people who still till this day believe she was guilty,
is guilty, and there's still people who believe that she's innocent,
and though she has been found innocent of all charges
along with Raphael. The part of the problem that I

(01:21:13):
take my takeaway on this is twofold one the media,
and this is something we're dealing with every single day,
every time that there's a case that becomes the case
of the century, is that the media frenzy forces the narrative.
And I don't know if you guys remember one of
the times I came on, we talked about the Preppy
murder trial and how that was the first trial where

(01:21:36):
Jennifer Levin, who is a victim, was accused of being
immoral and that her sexuality was the reason for her death,
and they publicized that.

Speaker 5 (01:21:51):
And you're going back again. This is late eighties, early nineties.

Speaker 6 (01:21:54):
Now flash forward almost you know, thirty years later, and
Amanda Knox is just a college student and wasn't there
just you know, backpacking through Europe.

Speaker 5 (01:22:02):
She was there as a student, and she moved into
a home with two.

Speaker 6 (01:22:05):
Italian young girls and another beautiful British student and there
were four girls sort of living the dream.

Speaker 5 (01:22:13):
And what ended was the British girl was the one
who lost her life.

Speaker 6 (01:22:19):
And because of this small town in Italy and the
media frenzy that happened globally, I don't know. The question
is is did the police act inappropriately? Was the evidence
all tampered with with a rushing to become famous. There
are numerous documentaries about this. What's fascinating about the current
scripted version of the Amanda Knox Story on Hulu is

(01:22:42):
that it's also executive produced by Amanda Knox herself and
Monica Lewinsky. And I think one of the big takeaways
of that is that both of these women were once
again sort of crucified for being women and for having
their own take on relationship and sex and sex. And
what's fascinating about the Italian element of this is that

(01:23:05):
the police detective was very, very, very religious, and he
immediately labeled her as immoral, and that the girl who
passed away was virginal, and that it was jealousy among women.
It had all of the makings of the most salacious
kind of true crime. You can imagine young pretty American,

(01:23:28):
British and Italian girls. A handsome, well off young student
Italian falls madly in love with the American.

Speaker 5 (01:23:37):
They go off have a romantic.

Speaker 6 (01:23:38):
Adventure and then supposedly, allegedly, you know, there is a
confrontation between the virginal one and in a rage of oddity,
they murder her.

Speaker 5 (01:23:50):
That was really their setup.

Speaker 6 (01:23:52):
And you either believe that she is this sex crazed
lunatic or that she was basically made to be that way.
And it is a failure of justice, and it is
a failure of the media of the way they spun
that well.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
And it's in her coolarity too.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
She is innocent. She has been proven innocent. In fact,
even the investigator, the detective and the you know, air
quotes lawyer. There's a different word for it in Italy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
Excuse me, they have.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
She has been vindicated and there is somebody now behind
bars paying for that crime.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
But yet we all still don't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
We all still somehow think it was Amanda.

Speaker 7 (01:24:33):
It's DNA phone, right, there was DNA, and you know,
courtneyl said something about this is Mary.

Speaker 6 (01:24:41):
Your body go on, Yeah, I mean, I mean you
could break this up into a million different ways. Some
of the DNA was tampered with, some of it was
spread out, The scene wasn't kept clean. There was This
is one of the reasons why the whole world freaked
out about it. But what was crazy was they weren't
going after evidence. They were going after judgment.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Oh of course it was tunnel vision. It was a
very sexy story. She was totally tossed away as this young,
sex crazed young woman, an American woman, no less.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Yeah, and imagine her parents.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
That have to put every dollar they've ever met, ever
made on the line to be going to Italy to
help get their daughter free. And by the way, they
were all dogs with a bone. They were not looking
to let Amanda Knox go free. And it's worth noting
just like we should just say it very loud because
most people don't believe this. Not most people don't believe this.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
I did not mean that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
But until you watch this stuff, I think it's still
out there that, oh, maybe she did do it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
No, no, she did not do it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
And how do you get beyond that when there's the
evidence proving that even the lead investigator and also the
legal expert who basically put her behind bars, they're like
thickest thieves and best of friends now, and even fee
is treating her like a daughter.

Speaker 6 (01:25:57):
You know what's also crazy about this story is that,
look from I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate for a second,
when the police had first made their sort of initial judgment,
which in every case happens, they walk in, they sort of,
you know, will look at a person and sort of
make a snap judgment tunnel person. Her behavior was very odd,
it was, and you know, she was very sort of
flippant about the fact that they weren't really friends and

(01:26:19):
that she'd only known her for a couple of weeks,
so why should she feel all sorts of sort of emotion.
But at the same time, this mad romance, this incredibly
intense love affair that she had with the Italian young
gentleman had only been going on for four days, So
there's a little bit of that kind of like well
is it or isn't it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:37):
You can or you can't.

Speaker 6 (01:26:38):
And the other side of this that is very rarely
talked about is really his story because they supposedly were
each other's alibi. And then he basically said, well, she
might have left in the middle of the night, and
then she in the when she was being spoken, when
she was trying her testimonial, right like when she was
first being you know, interviewed and cross examined in the

(01:27:00):
police station, the police kept like hammering her and said,
you know, something horrible to happen.

Speaker 5 (01:27:04):
You just don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
You just they used the read technique on her. They
interviewed her repeatedly over several days, often overnight, for hours
at a time, up to fourteen hours straight, with little
sleep or food.

Speaker 7 (01:27:16):
This was intentional. They denied her a translator. It's required
by Italian law, by the way, And so the read
technique is highly controversial and court and you had mentioned
something about this being totally an American and you're right,
you know, this is Italy, but the red technique is
incredibly American and it's a very very controversial interview style.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
It's it's basically to force a confession.

Speaker 5 (01:27:39):
It breaks you down.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
It breaks you down.

Speaker 5 (01:27:41):
That's what I mean by a witch trial.

Speaker 6 (01:27:42):
It's sort of the same thing where they would dunk
the witches over and over again and say if they
survived being under water for eight minutes, they were innocent,
when nobody can it's it's they. And they played this
game with her consistently, and for me, one of the
most disturbing parts of this was when she was actually
you know, held and they started to accuser of a
moral behavior.

Speaker 5 (01:28:02):
They actually went and told.

Speaker 6 (01:28:03):
Her that they had done blood tests on her upon
you incarcerating her, and that they tested her positive for HIV.
And she went on to be in this jail cell
thinking she was dying of a disease that she had
contracted from someone somewhere, only to find out that they
were lying to her all along, just to break her

(01:28:24):
down emotionally.

Speaker 9 (01:28:25):
And that is one of the many things they get
to learn about through this unbelievable multi part episodic on Hulu,
The Twisted Tail, which honestly, I got to say I
did learn so much Stephanie, to your earlier point. I
really hadn't remembered how this whole thing panned out, and
that Amanda Knox indeed has been found innocent now multiple

(01:28:48):
times and with finality, and also just the way I
thought that, the way that this series puts you inside
of Amanda Knox's perspective is done unbelievably.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
What did you guys think? So good?

Speaker 7 (01:29:03):
There was a moment in episode one. I'm sorry, Siffany,
there was a moment in episode one where they find
Meredith in her bedroom, right and everybody speaking Italian and Amanda,
you know, she she has like a little bit of
Italian knowledge, but not a lot, and she doesn't know
what's going on in the room, kind of gets silent
and it kind of zooms in on her, and it
gives me. I get the chills thinking about it right now,

(01:29:24):
because it really put me like how scared she must
have been in that moment, because I feel like she
kind of realized, oh my god, I'm in trouble.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:32):
It's just very very well, very well shot too, I.

Speaker 5 (01:29:35):
Can remember something.

Speaker 6 (01:29:37):
Keep in mind that she is the executive producer of
this series. This is her story from her mind, from
her tale through her eyes, So you really are experiencing
not not you know, a one sided point of view. Sure,
you know, I think that part of the remarkable story
here is also is the whole discovery of poor Theresa.

(01:29:57):
Because you know, she had supposedly so Amanda had spent
the night with her boyfriend. She came home, the door
was opened. She thought something was awry. She kind of
surveyed the situation lightly shut the door, was like, oh,
that's odd, goes in, takes her clothes off, goes into
the bathroom, sees blood in the sink.

Speaker 5 (01:30:15):
It's just like, huh, that's strange, kind of doesn't think
about it.

Speaker 6 (01:30:19):
Takes a shower, gets out of the shower, steps on
a wet bat matt bath mat, sees blood on the
bath mat, still doesn't really get.

Speaker 5 (01:30:26):
Weird about it. Goes to the second bathroom to get
something a hairpet.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Get weird about it.

Speaker 6 (01:30:30):
No, she saw feces in the toilet and then got
weird about it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
There's so many many details.

Speaker 6 (01:30:37):
That's her sorry, that's from her own testimony and from
her own point of view.

Speaker 5 (01:30:42):
We see it in the show, which.

Speaker 9 (01:30:44):
Is which is I mean, this has been one of
the you know the many multiple things that you will
learn by watching this, which hopefully you all are. And
actually I believe it's now time quickly to turn to
a talk back.

Speaker 13 (01:30:58):
Hey Fight in Alabama. Love you guys, Love your show.
You guys were talking about the Dave's Krupa case and
I don't know if you guys know this or not,
but there was a documentary.

Speaker 9 (01:31:15):
Done on it.

Speaker 13 (01:31:16):
I believe it's a three part documentary maybe two on Netflix,
and it's called Lover's Stalker Killer. It's very very good. Thanks,
have a great week.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
I'm in Also, I haven't seen it, and I heard
it was excellent, so I would love this as our
next true crime and chill. I am.

Speaker 9 (01:31:40):
So that's one of my favorite stories from Crazy and
Love days Like it's just the intricacies and oh.

Speaker 5 (01:31:47):
My gosh, the stalking theme.

Speaker 9 (01:31:49):
Yeah, listen, Doron, thank you so very much for joining
us to share those cases and for this week's true
Crime and Chill. Doron, of course, is a partner of
La Comic Con, taking place September twenty sixth to the
twenty eighth at the Los Angeles Convention Center, So be
there or be square, and we can't wait to see
you Tonight True Crime, Tonight Back Tomorrow, Amanda Knox

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