November 22, 2023 • 45 mins
Conclusions begin to be drawn as John & Deanna understand the why’s and why not’s of Jared’s murder through the help of forensic death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
in the basement.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Somebody told you that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm come to find out. This is like it exploded
into this huge thing.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride Again was
shot dead.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I kept calling his phone during the drive.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
he was targeted.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Eventually a police officer answered and told me to come
to the police station.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Justice is something that takes different shapes or forms.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
late to.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
animal abusers arrested.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
We spent over a year and a half trying to
get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnatdah.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Don't Fuck with Cats.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Kat's Studios.
So the last week spoke, we were sending the DNA
forums to Shokia's parents for the FBI DNA database, and
we're waiting for the Forida based investigator Chris Salgado to
get back to us with information about Jared's ex wife
and her husband. And we were sending forensic analysts Joseph
(01:51):
Morgan our files and all the public information we have
collected about Jared's case in.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Florida, and Joseph has had some time to look it
over and is ready to talk after our brief conversation
the other day.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So let's talk to Joseph and see what he has
to say about the information we have collected about Jared's murder.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That sounds like a plan I mean, you know, we've
were working Jared, and you know, it's difficult because like
there's nothing because the cops are pretty tight lipped in
this case, and you know, hopefully with reason. Right, I
had some questions about like crime scene processing. I think
I don't really know what to call it. I've been
thinking a lot about what kind of evidence would a
(02:30):
criminal leave at this type of scene, right, And I
was thinking about if it was a car jacking. Let's
just say, I don't know, pretend if it was a carjacking,
maybe they touched the door and then saw the little
toddler in the back seat and got spooped and ran away.
Or maybe they turned him over so they could reach
(02:51):
in his back pocket and see if he had a wallet,
you know what I mean, like those kinds of touches,
you know, can that be processed? And then another thing
that I was really thinking about a lot was the shellcasings. Yeah,
it's my understanding that shellcasings are difficult in the past
(03:12):
to process because when the gun is fired, it like
burns up the DNA right to.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
A certain degree. There's a bit of a fallacy. Oh okay, okay,
it's been proven that you can still retrieve it, but
you had passed along an article that you know, I
concur with to a certain degree. When you begin to
think about DNA in any case you can't. People will
say they'll, you know, the two terms DNA and fingerprint
(03:41):
kind of in some some arenas have become kind of interchangeable.
And I think that for the laymen, they do follow
that line of logic and they think about how you
know it is something that is left behind and to
kind of frame it. And I always fall back to
a man named mom Lecarde, who's our person in forensics.
(04:03):
It's kind of the godfather in forensics for us, and
over one hundred years ago he made a statement. It says,
every contact leads a trace. There's something there and you know,
like you just imagine your thumb. Where an individual is
loading a magazine, they're pressing down very hard, particularly when
they're gay to the high end of the capacity of
the magazine. They're having to apply more pressure directly to
(04:26):
the surface of the months of the live round. But
get it into the magazine comes more and more tense,
so more contacts you have there, the higher probability is
that you'll leave a latent print and there have been
latent prints that have been recovered off the shellcases. We
do things like super glue, fumine, those sorts of things.
You can kind of capture it in that moment. But
the DNA DNA is so and the term molecular is
(04:51):
very accurate here because it's so timy, and it gets
into these places that I think the normal everyday person
you're thinking about, well where can I find evidence? Well,
evidence can be in the tightest of areas, the tiniest
little recesses. When it comes to DNA, it's just do
(05:12):
you have the knowledge and the ability to collect it? Well,
if you use a semi automatic weapon, unless you've got
what's referred to as a brass catcher that catches the
ejected shell cases, you're leading evidence behind. You know, a pro,
a pro worth their salt, would use a revolver, and
you know there are many cases where you can use
(05:33):
like a twenty two magnum for instance, revolver, which is
you know, rather robust round to be so tiny and caliber,
it's highly effective. And obviously in this case, they weren't
trying to mute sound because even the baby, you know,
we have to think back, what did the baby say
you know, boom boom boom, daddy fell down, or you know,
(05:56):
I'm not doing it justice. But that was essentially the
jest of it. So they weren't trying to mask sound here.
They weren't trying to suppress sound. So a pro would
have used a revolver. If you use a revolver, guess
what you do. You take that evidence with you because
the spent rounds in the cylinder are still there. You're
(06:17):
going to haul that off with you. Who this perpetrator
is as cold and callous as it was, and this
is this hits a level of brutality I think just
from a lack of just empathy on his part for
this baby that was at the scene. It wasn't very
bright because you know, you've got all these multiple points
of contact this this tire with a rim, there's points
(06:42):
of contact on that where you can leave you know,
DNA evidence that can be harvested. You could leave a
fingerprint that say, if you're not wearing gloves, because if
you think about any tire, it's got that kind of
dust that's on the surface of it. You know, many
times it's break dust. You'll have grease that's on it
and if you have grease, if you touch that area,
(07:03):
that's what referred to as a plastic print. If you're
very careful when you look at that, you essentially if
if folks listening, we'll just think about think about when
we were kids and we'd use plato or we'd use
silly putty, you know, and you press your finger into it.
You press your finger into it, you can actually pick
up ridge detail off off of that print that has
been left behind. Well, this is kind of a plastic
(07:25):
print if you touch that that kind of greasy or
dusty area. The trick is we're they careful to preserve
all of the surfaces of that tire. So I know,
going kind of far field.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
No, no, no, this is great.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I think this is this case from a physical evidence standpoint,
it's going to come down to impressions. Those things that
are left behind, like the card, every contact lease trace.
So you know, if you look at the list of
things here from potential harvesting of DNA off of spent
shell casing because we obviously they not we but they
obviously don't have the weapon, at least we don't think
(08:02):
they do. You've got perhaps, as you rightly mentioned, if
this was in fact some failed carjacking attempt where you're
going to muscle somebody and they put their hand on
that door lash to force it open and have them
step out of the vehicle. Knowing Florida and the way
they process scenes down there, I would imagine that truck
(08:25):
was hauled off and taken to a forensic garage as
a crime lab, and the whole thing is being I
mean they have gone from stemmed the stern on this thing,
looking at every point of contact in there, that baby's
car seat, what is part of the scene. They're going
to be taking a look at that, any any point
(08:46):
of contact where people are placing their hands on a surface,
And it doesn't matter if it's a smooth, non poor
surface like glass or metal or even fabric, because if
you touch fabric, if you touch fabric, there's a high
probabilit right there that you could source DNA out of
that just through touch DNA that DNA that comes off
(09:06):
from slough skin cell. Yeah, then you think about the tire,
you know, so you've got the tire and all the
components with that, You've got the truck with the Layton prints,
You've got these shell casings. And one of the things
I'm fascinated by is that when you look at the
aerial photography in this case of the area where this
went down, this is immediately adjacent to a very damp environment.
(09:31):
As a matter of fact, there's kind of a little
canal that runs adjacent to the roadway out there. It's
got water. This water in dwelling in the space, and
so you know that it's a damp, humid environment. I
know a lot of people would say, well, that's Laura,
that's no big revelation. You're right, it's not. But if
that water is in that canal area because of the
(09:54):
recent rain, if this perpetrator set this tire out at
this choke point, wheel housing entire however we're going to
phrase it, they had to wait. Well, the question is
what did they do while they were waiting?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, I thought about that a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
If they're standing over in that and it's there's palmetta bushes,
which are kind of these bushy things that you get
them in tropical areas. There's all kinds of interesting vegetation
up there. Then you have kind of a canopy that
rises up about you know, two stories in the air
of trees, it's a great place to hide. But that
soil is very soft and very receptive. So if an
(10:32):
individual is wearing a particular type of shoe boot, that
soil would have been very receptive to holding on to
a pattern left behind by the shoes that the individuals wearing.
You know, the thing about it is is that if
you get a group of cops that are, you know,
(10:53):
kind of cowboying it up and they're just running around wild,
which I don't think that they did, you can stop
upon evidence and some of the stuff is very reprivual.
I hope that it was very well secured if they
did find footprints, which I think there's a higher probability
that they did out that same because of solid the soil,
the texture of the soil, and you can document that
(11:14):
maybe cast those areas you're going to have again another
point of connectivity that could in fact leads you back
to portrayer in this cave.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's such a good point and I thought about that
a lot, like the person that did this had to
be working with somebody else, because you have to know
Jared's coming, there's nobody behind him. It's safe to do this,
you know, communicating right and they would have to have
been hiding in that wooded area. They would have to be.
But if it's a random attack like a carjacking or
(11:44):
a road rage incident, not that it was, but if
it was, then they wouldn't have found anything because the
person wouldn't have gone into the woods. Right, The person
likely wouldn't have gone into the woods.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, and again this for me, this goes to you
know how I mentioned about you know, semi automatic weapon
versus revolver. Right, this is somebody that at least had
a base plan. I didn't think everything through. Because he
thought everything through, there were certain things that they would
not have done. I think chief among these as you
would have taken the time to pick up that tire room.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And haul it off with you, right, and the showcasings
and shellcasing.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We don't know what the distribution was of the shellcases
either were they in the grass or were they just
laying out on the surface of the road. And that's important. Yeah,
when one of these things ejects and it hits concrete
asphalt surface, it'll bounce, literally bounce. And because it's such
a you know, it's got it's cylindrical in shape and
(12:43):
it's got all these weird kind of edges on it.
It'll hit that contact and surface and it'll just bounce
and there's no there's no predictability to it where it's
going to wind up. Now that the casings were in
the grass on the shoulder of the road, then again
this isn't a great predictor, but at least you would
kind of have them in a tighter area. But when
(13:07):
you get onto a hard surface and you again popping
off rounds, those cases can be distributed all over the place.
So you can't look at the distribution patterns of spent
shell cases and say, Okay, this person was standing definitively
right here, because it's just.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
So random where they land.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Right it is. It's one of the most random things.
And you know, and again one of the worst sounds
crime saying of us there can hear at night when
you're out on only seeing in a very poorly litle area,
which I'd have to say this is again that the
person plan for this is that that metal tink that
you hear is you kick a shell spent shell case
and with your foot because you didn't see it. It
(13:47):
can just be that random and the thing goes rolling
across the ground. Well, now you've lost all your points
of reference, you know, with that where it was distributed,
and that does happen. I'm chief among centers, I've kicked them,
I've stucked them, and had not didn't have an awareness
you know, that was going on. But if it's in
the grass, that's that's totally you know, that's a bit different.
(14:08):
And this is just kind of one of those points
when you think about crime scene investigations, and one of
the reasons we really stress this is that you have
to have a gatekeeper out there. You do not want
a huge number of people inside the tape because you
increase the factor that something could go wrong exponentially with
(14:30):
every person that you put inside the tape. So the
fewer hands on deck, you would think, well, god, we
need somebody to help us manage this. Yeah, you do.
They need to stand outside the tape, and you have
the technicians that are within the tape, particularly early on,
so that you can kind of get a feel for
what's going on. And this case is very difficult. Why
(14:50):
people might ask why, you know, Morgan, why why is
this case more difficult than you know than another, Well,
it's outdoors, and anytime you have something outdoors, it's it's
not controlled. I've had wild animals walk across scenes at uh,
you know, crime scenes. I've had dogs walk up and
start snipping out of blood and drinking blood at crime
(15:12):
scenes and you don't have any control over that, Whereas
if you're inside of a dwelling, it's a controlled environment.
You know that that you find yourself in at that
moment time, and you can you know, shut the doors,
and it's very I'm not saying it's it's easy, but
it's it's more controllable. And then of course in Florida,
(15:35):
you never know when it's going to rain, and that's
one of the worst things that can happen is that's
crime scene investigati. When you hear the distant roll of thunder,
I'm that that happened. That happens quite frequently.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm gonna look that up. I want to know what
the weather conditions were.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I think that that's very important. Yeah, what phase was
the moon into? Because no, no, no, you want to
you want to know what the moon was in because
it's going to provide ambient lighting if it's a clear night,
and even if you've got say a half moon that's
out there, then the scene will be partially illuminated, you know,
(16:12):
if it's overcast. Even if you've got full moon, it's
it's more difficult, you know. And in an area like this,
one of the things that happens and I don't know
that necessarily happened in this particular case. First off, crimesing units,
it's kind of standard now that they carry a generator
with horrible lighting. In the past, if it is so
(16:34):
bloody dark out of the scene, we would actually call
the fire department. And they have what's called a light
truck at bigger departments, and it's got these gigantic, gigantic
spotlights on the things that many people don't ever see these,
and it will just blast away all of the darkness.
Set to call for other you know, for other assets
to come in so that you can work this thing,
(16:56):
you know, and you know, homicides don't occur at most
convenient time. You have to, you know, you have to
dance to the tune that's currently being played, and you
have to be prepared to bit at one show up.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
What's the danger in waiting for like the sunrise? Is
it that does the evidence degrade? If it's outside and maybe.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
It starts raining, like yeah, yeah, yeah, there is a
danger you don't And look, there are certain cases where
we've held them overnight, but we have started processing cases,
you know, like I'll vie for instance, if you have
a clandestine grave, for instance, where you know where you
have a victim that's located, maybe you've outlined it out,
(17:38):
You've maybe have a grid that's placed over and the
sun goes down. You don't necessarily want to be doing
a body recovery in a non lighted environment, I mean
where it requires daylight to do it. In those cases, yeah,
you would hold off. But in a case that's kind
of dispersed and you really don't know what's going on,
(18:00):
you can mind this occurred at night, you know, so
you're not going to know the full depth and breadth
of it, and you don't know what could be compromised
by you not attending to it, particularly when it comes
to blood evidence, and that's that's the big bugaboo here.
If you have any kind of blood evidence, whether it
be from the victim, which there would have been blood
(18:22):
evidence relative to Jared unfortunately, or if they got into
a scuffle or something and the perpetrator was bleeding, you
won't be able to appreciate those bits of blood and
it can be compromised. So you have to flood it
with as much light as you can and try to
process it at that moment in time, because it can
(18:43):
be literally washed away. I mean. And again, my friends
in Florida that I know that you know, do forensics
down there. That's and I work in South Louisiana, which
is not too much different than Florida and these hostile environments,
and Florida is a hostile And I don't mean this
about the people or the I'm talking about the atmosphere.
I'm talking about that world in which people live in,
(19:06):
you know, down there, and they're aware of it there.
You know, you're not breaking new news to them. They
know every time you walk out of the house, you're
dripping sweat many times, okay, And you're subject to the
environment that you're in, any any environment that we're in.
And then with biological evidence, in particular, the longer it
(19:26):
is left unattended or uncollected and documented and all the
sorts of things that we do, there's a higher probability
it's going to degrade. And you just you want to
avoid that at all costs, and some you know, look,
if the circumstances dictate many times, how we're going to
react and behave and all those sorts of things. And
you know, sometimes you get to a body and it's
(19:48):
it's hours and hours after the person has died. You
don't have any control over that, and so you kind
of have to jump in midstream and just process it
as best you can and just understand the world and
what you're working.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Let's stop here for a break.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
We'll be back in a moment. Typically in the court case,
there's two types of testimony. There's a witness testimony, somebody
who physically saw it, I saw the shooter. The other
(20:23):
testimony is expert witness testimony, somebody like you, well, there
was a night witness Gyard's daughter two years old. But
can a child testify in a case like this as
a night with John.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I can't even begin to imagine that as they would
do that, the remembrances would be so clouded and a
child that young. Now, I think probably, and this is
going to enter into I don't really know. This is
kind of outside of my spuere, but I think maybe
the way that the prosecution might because listen, this is
(20:56):
powerful stuff, maybe the most powerful thing about this case.
In my estimation, at least, the child is an ear
witness to this event. Okay, they're going to try to
get that into, you know, into the case they're going
to when this thing goes to trial, or try to.
They want to get that statement, you know, that statement
that she made about our day. I could see them
(21:17):
getting the police officer that took that statement or spoke
with that child, or if it was a social worker
or whoever, get them on the stand and address that issue.
In addition to that, I could see them reaching out
to a side child psychologist or forensic psychologists and ask
them how much how much weight should we give to
(21:38):
this statement that was made, And then they'll go into
the you know, into destruction of the brain of a
child's age and talk about the cognitibility, their ability to communicate,
and they'll get them on the stand. And it's probably
the combination of those two things. With the official that
took the statement from a child, if you want to
call it a statement, and then an expert rendering you know,
(21:58):
how much weight should you get to it, they could
probably get them understand I just can't see them putting
on the sand.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, that's where I'm trying to go with this and
Jared's case. You're not going to have any eye witness.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
You're going to rely on physical evidence left at the scene. Yeah,
and that's why, and using experts in the field, and
I'd like to kind of we have time kind of
go over some of the.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Things we do know. So we do know that there
were shellcases left, that's the thing, right from semi automatic.
And as you said, you know, if a professional would
have done this, they would have probably used a revolver.
So there were times in this case where Deanna and
I talking list man, this is very professional, and then
you hear about shell casing being left that's the scene,
and you go, well, that's not very professional. So there's
(22:43):
a lot of talk about you know, you can identify
the type of gun or from the hammer that strikes
the firing cap in it. So obviously they're going to
know the size of based on the shell. They're going
to know what size bullet would use.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Correct, Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it would. There would be
the stamp on the base of the spint cartridge that
will give you manufacture and it will give you caliber,
whether it's a forty cow nine millimeter, ten milimeter, forty
five caliber, whatever the case. We you know, I'm working
on the assumption that this is a semi automatic weapon
(23:20):
because they recovered spell, recovered spent brass. Let's saying, you know,
unless somebody, unless this person was such a fool that
they would dump a cylinder at the scene, you know,
from a revolver, And I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, And for the listeners, what do you is meaning
is a revolver has that round thing that you see
in the Old West, or they spin it in order
to empty it. You would have to pull a latch.
The cylinder would flip to one side. Then you would
have to put another thing down that would ejact eject.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
The ejector rod.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, it would eject all the shell casings out
of that cylinder, so you could load more bullets and
then put.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It back in.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Versus a semi automatic which has a magazine or what
we primarily referred to as a clip, and put the
clip in the handle, do you rack the slide. It
loads one bullet into the chamber. You pull the thin
the energy from the bullet being the gunpowder expanding, shooting
the bullet out the barrel, then pushes his slide back
(24:16):
that then takes the shelf casing ejects out of the
bullet and one of the next bullet, and the clip
slides up into the chamber. So when you talk about
a brass catcher, that would be an attachment to it.
So it's this case is this isn't the case where
I go, well, that's not very professional to lead ship.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Oh it's suddenly you know, you might look at the
body and say, well, we can assess it the scene
that he appears to have gunshot. Womans will know more,
you know, because at the scene, you're there's nobody that's
going to be at the scene that will can say
that something is in fact a gunshot wound. They'll say
you have circular defects or regular defects in a body.
(24:56):
I get pushed back from that all the time, you know,
like a cam like, well, this is a gunshot wound.
And you're not a board certified friends of pathology. So
you know, immediately the defense hops on you and says, oh, really,
where'd you go to medical school? Where'd you do your
pathology residency? Where'd you do your fellowship in forensic pathology,
So they can call it a gunshot wound. But the
safest thing is to say this is a circular defect
(25:19):
in the body. Now, once the medical examiner makes their
assessment and they say, yes, this is in fact a
gunshot woman, we've got stippling here, we've got a powdered distribution.
Oh and by the way, we recovered to let core
projectile out the body, and we have X rays to
demonstrate this, and here's the physical projectile. Even if you
have the ballistics on that, sometimes the bullet will be
(25:40):
compromised to the point where you won't have the ability
to say definitively that this is a certain caliber without
sending it to the ballistics lab and have them visualize it,
actualize it, examine it, and generate a report. Shortcut here
is the fact that you've got spent brass at the scene.
So you can look at that and say, for the detective,
this is huge because he's got spent brass laying all
(26:02):
over the place. And not only can they say that
it's this caliber and it's this manufacturer, because now you've
got a place where you can start doing sales research exactly.
And one other thing that people don't think about with
spent brass is that you know, you did a great
job of describing the sequencing of the ejection process when
(26:29):
those rounds are loaded up through the magazine and you
initiate that firing sequence. Well, what happens internally with a
semi automatic weapon is you've got a mechanism within it
that essentially grabs that round that has been fired and
it drags it across, drags it across the surface of
these of this extractor mechanism that's inside the housing. And
(26:52):
guess what, that's unique to that weapon. So now that
piece of brass is flying through the air and it's
got extractor marks on it. So if you ever do
you recover the weapon, you can take that piece of
brass and you can fire that same type of ammunition
out of that weapon. Collect that brass and do a
comparison between what you found at the scene and what
(27:13):
you generate in a lab if you suspect that this
is the weapon use and they can do a ballistic
comparison with that, and it's it's not it doesn't have
as much weight as when you're you see them in
these movies where they'll fire a weapon into a big
barrel full of water and they catch that round, and
you look at the ballistic signature that's left behind the
striations and all these sorts of things that land and roods,
(27:35):
and you know the the fingerprint that's essentially left on
the soft metal surface of the projectile that carries more weight. However,
you know the totality of that scientific examination where you
have spent brass and then you marry that up with
the test fire round compared to the rounds that you recovered. Unfortunately,
(27:55):
maybe from the body it's seen, or maybe around that
has passed through the body lodged in them around or
maybe because I still don't I still don't understand the
positionality of the shooter relative to Jared. They shoot Jared once,
knocking to the ground, and they stand over him and
fire into him.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I have a video of the shots, but it's just
audio and it's just boom, boom boom, So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It kind of leads me into this whole versus a
professional versus an amateur that committed this. So you know,
at the scene when we hear about the shell case,
and you immediately go to a semi automatic. Why would
the person leave the shelf? And that's what comes to
my mind that makes me think maybe this wasn't a
professional that did the job. And so like that's the
(28:43):
thing that gets me and I keep getting hung up on,
Like at one point on time, this is like how
to get away with murder? Win on one, this is
like the perfect crime. You know, we're ten minutes down
the road. They still don't know. They have some ideas.
But so that was the thing that stuck out with
me so early. You would talk about latent prints and
DNA on non porous surfaces. So how about a tire.
(29:07):
Anybody who's ever changed a flat tire on the side
of the road knows it's very physical. Your hands on,
you're gonna get dirty, You're gonna get brake dust and
whatever your car's kicked up while it's driving down the road.
So I'm assuming that tire was on the word f
one fifty they're looking for. They had a flat, so
I'm going they had to physically touch it.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Would a fingerprint last on rubber? In this case, I
think that the potential for it, particularly if it was
on a medium like oil or grease, it could be
transferred to it. Okay, Like if you grabbed the inner
hub of a wheel, it could have oil or grease,
grease primarily I think, and also the brake dust. So
(29:47):
if they took care when they went to examine the
tire again, you go back to something like super blue fuming,
you could capture a print in that environment. Another thing
that they'll use also when trying to retreat prints is
using what's referred to as alternative light sources. Because light
is on a spectrum and so you're using, say, for instance,
(30:08):
like ultra violet light. You can take photos of things
using ultraviolet light filters and you'll be able to see
things that you would not normally see. So that's another
way they can capture evidence off of the tire. I think, yeah,
I think that probably we're reaching the outer marker now,
but there's other pieces of evidence to consider here. I think,
(30:29):
in going back to the tire, I think one of
the things that we might forget about is you have
to look to soil signs. In this case as well,
you brought up you had brought up the idea that
this person if they were from an out of state
or they had traveled out of state, you know, all
soil is not the same. So if you're coming from
let's say Florida is just adjacent to Georgia, right, Well,
(30:50):
if you had used the truck on a job, if
you're a contractor, use that truck on a job in
the Piedmont region of Georgia, which is before you get
to fall on, which is where the soil turns real
sandy and it starts to sweep down towards the Gulf
of Mexico and the Atlantic coast of Florida. That soil
looks completely different in the Piedmont region than it does
(31:13):
down in that coastal region. The same thing applies as
you go north of the Piedmont you start to get
into Appalachia. If they're doing a job up there, let's
say in North Carolina or Tennessee, that soil is completely
different than Piedmont and it's certainly different than the coastal soil.
So soil is certainly something you would look for on
that tire. In particular, I can guarantee you they're looking
at that.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
That would be fabulous. I mean, if there is a
soil sample in that tire, that it's unique, right, Like
maybe they work on a gravel pit. I don't know
that would be fabulous, but I feel like if that
were the case, John, don't you think that we would
know by now?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yes and no?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Or is this yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
This is the stuff that they're holding close to, right,
So we Gaana and I used the term puma idents
that police have but they don't make public so that
you know, once they find the person and they'll know
for sure this is them. So the tire. So I'm
looking at the picture of the tire now and it
looks like it has tread, but it doesn't happen very much.
So the police are looking for a Ford F one
(32:16):
fifteen manufactured between the years two thousand and four two
thousand and eight. So let's just say the last year
two thousand and eight is doing this thing. Most tires
last forty fifty thousand miles. This you know, this vehicle
is two thousand and eight twenty twenty twenty two. That's
the eight years they've probably had to replace tires within
those eight years. Is there information manufacturer information can be
(32:39):
on this tire that may tell them when it was manufactured,
where it came from, and possibly what area of the
country like I live in southern California. We don't buy
snow tires and we don't need them, whereas people in
the north and eat northeast too. Is there going to
be information manufacturer information on the tire that may help
them find where this came from.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, oh, most definitely you'll be able to you know,
there'll be a lot number that this thing will go
back to. And here here's another fascinating piece to evidence
collected from tires you have. With tires, you have what's
referred to as OE, which is called original equipment. So
(33:22):
let's say Ford, if Ford has a contract with be
a good Richard, Firestone or good Year, that is that
came up in the year model of that of that vehicle.
Maybe they had a contract for that year that they're
going to supply that company. A is going to supply
Ford Motor Company with this type of tire. You know,
(33:44):
because when a vehicle rolls off the line, it's got
tires on it. Okay, so they subcontract that out. So
let's just say, for instance, that they had new tires
that were placed on the truck and they had this
OE tire that they kept around for a spare. Well,
that tells you something about the individual, right, it tells
(34:05):
you the point of origin for the oe, what year
was it manufactured, where did it come from, what lot
did it come out of? If you know, because if
you just look at the on the sidewalls, if you
just look at the all of that data that's contained
on the side of there, you can kind of begin
to paint a picture of the point of origin, maybe
not specifically to that truck, but certainly to that that tire.
(34:29):
And I think that that's very important here. And when
you're trying to process all of this evidence, it does
take time. You know. It's like you know, Granny's quilt
that she's passed down from years and years ago to
the family and each body, each person involved it did
a square. Well, each one of the squares has got
a point of point of origin, okay, and it's what
(34:51):
makes the quote unique. And in a forensic case, it's
just like that, each one of these bits of evidence
will be unique to itself. Even you drowning in evidence, okay,
sometimes you can have believe it or not. You have
too much evidence, it becomes overwhelming, I think if you
haven't planned accordingly, and when you have too much evidence,
(35:12):
sometimes you can get focused on certain things and lose
focus on other things. So you have to have somebody
who's coming in charge that's saying, Okay, this is significant,
this is significant, and just imagine the biggest vend docms
that you've ever seen in your life, and everything has
its importance to the case. It's all about attempting to
measure the value of each one of those little circles
(35:35):
and what's it going to bring to the case. What's it?
You know, right now we're still at the phase we
just want to find out who this is and is
this truck actually associated with the crime. I think there's
probably a high likelihood it is, but we have to
get to that point first. Before you know, they actually
put the bracelets on anybody and you see them purp
walking into a courthouse somewhere.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, that's that's the other part of this case that
you think professional would not use the tire from the
vehicle they were driving to get to the scene or
flee the scene. That's the thing that's like, why would
I did believe the tire there and it just brings
things into question.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Let's stop here for another quick break.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
One of the other items in talking to Kirsten Jared's
wife is the vehicle, the Volk Flagon he was driving,
the police still have it. Her insurance company tolded it
to let the police have it. Kristen had to sign
a release form so the police could pull what's one
as the black box from Jared's vehicle? What kind of
information is collected on the what is a black box?
(36:51):
And what kind of information is collected on that inside
a vehicle? And then they had security camera videos in
their house, but she had hidden some extra ones underneath
the bed, adding debate in the kids room. Uh, they
had found a USB stick in his vehicle that was
recording audio and so apparently he had so he had
confronted her about this. But one of the things Deanna
(37:11):
and I was, it's only he put a tracking device
on his vehicle that night or before to see where
he was going, to be able to see where.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
He was at and when they could commit.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
The crime where right? Yeah, police would have searched the
car for that, correct.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah. They they would have gone from stem to stern
searching the undercarriage of the vehicle. And I would assume
that the technology exists for them to sweep the vehicle
electronically to see if there's anything that may have been
giving off a signal. My assumption is is if they
still have this vehicle, that it would be being held
(37:49):
and that if there was an item on there that
would be providing any kind of signal that could be
sent back somewhere, they would be able to find it located.
That technology does in fact exist. We've seen it in
several other cases where you know, people were tracking others,
you know, famously in the Pike in case, you know,
(38:11):
where the police they put trackers on the Wagner family's
vehicles and they became you know, very very very much
aware of that. So yeah, and it's possible for people
to you know, to do.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
This unless they grabbed it before they left, right, Like
they left an air tag on the car, and they
grabbed it before they left, right.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And they removed it from there. But if you've got
an air tag, I would imagine that there is some
kind of digital footprint that's left behind relative to the
existence of that air tag, as it applies back to
an account that it's associated with, and that would be
something that could track as well. And it's you know,
it's like pulling it teeth to get get data from
(38:52):
them and they're working on a case. From everything I've
been able to understand regarding cases involved in the you know,
digital digital evidence, you know, police contract things relatively easy,
dependent upon they pulled the information off of local towers
and that sort of thing. We're talking about cell phone data,
these other items that are kind of buried within the
(39:14):
technology of Apple. I think that that's a bit more
difficult to harvest out of there.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It's just hard to imagine. Somebody is hiding in that
wooded area, right and they have to know if Jared
was targeted, they have to know he's coming. He's going
to be here in forty seconds. Let's say, I gotta
I gotta put the I gotta leave my little spot
and put the tire in the middle of the road
and get back to my spot. So they have to
(39:45):
be able to communicate that, right, Like, they have to
know And how are they going to know he's coming
if they're hiding.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
That would be based on the fact that Jared was
been targeting.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Well, that's what I'm saying. Assuming he was targeted, they
either have to have communications with somebody maybe following Jared,
like I'm right behind him. There's nobody behind me. We're
going to be there in forty five seconds, so they
have to be communicating with somebody that's hiding or he's
being dropped. There's no other way to do this. I
thought we should talk to forensic specialist Joseph Morgan. He
(40:17):
might be able to help talk us through the crime
seat a little.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
The last piece of evidence at the scene, unfortunately, with
Jared and his body, so they're what we've been told
or what you can read about, is that he was shot. Unfortunately,
the suspect shot.
Speaker 5 (40:32):
On close quarters within three or four feet, and they
know this because around the bullet wounds is stiffling.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Can you talk about stippling and how important that is?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yeah, you know, you think about stifling. The best way
to kind of described to people that have never seen
most people can think about a water hose okay, and
if you have an attachment on the water hose, a
sprayer okay, the tighter de strayer is pulled is kind
of tight down on it. You know, you get this
(41:04):
kind of long stream right it comes out. However, you
can take a sprayer on a water hose and open
it and it comes out almost like a range shower.
I don't know, if you're kind of visualize in that,
but it kind of sprays out and it's kind of why, well,
imagine that that is a weapon that's being fired, and
(41:24):
so the further away you are from the target area,
the broader the deposition of the stippling is going to be.
So the further you are away from your target area,
with the analogy of the water hose, the spray will
be broader. Okay, it'll be less concentric, it will kind
(41:46):
of spread out. Same thing applies to the fire when
you fire a weapon into a static location, whether it's
you know, a target that you have end up on
a tree or a firing range, or into a human.
If you're within with pan guns, if you're within about
eighteen inches, that's going to be kind of the out
limit where the power itself that is not burned up
(42:11):
is just going to kind of drift down to the
ground because it's not powder itself is not very aerodynamic
what the bullet is. So once that initial burst, you know,
the ground is popped off if you will, the lack
of aerodynaticism of the powder will cause it just kind
of just away and the bullets spinning out of the
(42:31):
end of the the end of the weapon is going
to maintain and retain its energy until it strikes its target.
So what we can understand here is that the closer
you are through the target, the tighter the stippling pattern
will be. So you know, when you're you know, we
have we do what are called the sparious ranges. Will
(42:53):
say close close range, which would be you know, within
about one to two inches, all right, And before you
get close trained you have what's reports to as heart
content pressed attact, which means the muscle is pressed into
the target location, into the skin, and when you pull
trigger and in initiates, you're not going to have a
(43:16):
lot of powder because it's all being blown into the wound,
into the cavities and created. So he stepped back, you
go to you know, two to three inches. That's close.
And then before you drift back, you get into this
realm that's called intermediate. Now, intermediate is kind of meduless.
You know, they'll people will try to apply different ranges
(43:36):
to it and say, well, this person was definitely add
a ten inch raine. Okay, maybe they were, but you
it's it's going to be depended upon several facts. But
what we can surmise is if the police are saying
that there was stippling on Jared's body adjacent to this wound,
we know that the killer was in relatively close proximity
(43:58):
to him as his weapons being fount If they're saying
three to four feet, that would be at the outer
powder limits of of what you would find with powdered distribution.
And when they're saying stippling, you know, stipling, you have
it on clothing, you truly can. But generally stippling is
(44:18):
something that you know, most of the time we talk
about relative to you know, scan so I'd be very
curious to know where, you know, where this entrance land was,
you know, Other than that you're begin to think about,
you know, when you're talking about clothing, generally the term
issues just powdered distribution. So that's kind of you know,
stippling is a very specific anatomical statement that you're making
(44:41):
there because the powder is burned, it's kind of beneath,
kind of embedded itself beneath the epidermis, and you can
really see it. You know, it's it's striking, you know
all it's easy to search out on the webcam to
this quite quite easily, and so you get an idea
of different ranges for that. You know, you get up
we're talking about why they have a bit more distance
(45:04):
to them, you know, you know that claim that that
will go out, you know, several feet and we'll just
still get a powdered distribution. It's a lot more power
though that you're talking about what you're talking about rock.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
All right, Well, that that answers all my questions regarding that. Yes, sure,
anything anything for you, danna No.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
I'm I'm overwhelmed. More on that next time.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Deanna Thompson,
Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnaut, and me John Green.
Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile, Editing by
Jeff Ti Music by Vanicor Music.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
True Crimes is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, please visit the
iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
in the basement.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Somebody told you that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm come to find out. This is like it exploded
into this huge thing.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride Again was
shot dead.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I kept calling his phone during the drive.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
he was targeted.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Eventually a police officer answered and told me to come
to the police station.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Justice is something that takes different shapes or forms.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
late to.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
animal abusers arrested.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
We spent over a year and a half trying to
get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnatdah.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Don't Fuck with Cats.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Kat's Studios.
So the last week spoke, we were sending the DNA
forums to Shokia's parents for the FBI DNA database, and
we're waiting for the Forida based investigator Chris Salgado to
get back to us with information about Jared's ex wife
and her husband. And we were sending forensic analysts Joseph
(01:51):
Morgan our files and all the public information we have
collected about Jared's case in.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Florida, and Joseph has had some time to look it
over and is ready to talk after our brief conversation
the other day.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
So let's talk to Joseph and see what he has
to say about the information we have collected about Jared's murder.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That sounds like a plan I mean, you know, we've
were working Jared, and you know, it's difficult because like
there's nothing because the cops are pretty tight lipped in
this case, and you know, hopefully with reason. Right, I
had some questions about like crime scene processing. I think
I don't really know what to call it. I've been
thinking a lot about what kind of evidence would a
(02:30):
criminal leave at this type of scene, right, And I
was thinking about if it was a car jacking. Let's
just say, I don't know, pretend if it was a carjacking,
maybe they touched the door and then saw the little
toddler in the back seat and got spooped and ran away.
Or maybe they turned him over so they could reach
(02:51):
in his back pocket and see if he had a wallet,
you know what I mean, like those kinds of touches,
you know, can that be processed? And then another thing
that I was really thinking about a lot was the shellcasings. Yeah,
it's my understanding that shellcasings are difficult in the past
(03:12):
to process because when the gun is fired, it like
burns up the DNA right to.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
A certain degree. There's a bit of a fallacy. Oh okay, okay,
it's been proven that you can still retrieve it, but
you had passed along an article that you know, I
concur with to a certain degree. When you begin to
think about DNA in any case you can't. People will
say they'll, you know, the two terms DNA and fingerprint
(03:41):
kind of in some some arenas have become kind of interchangeable.
And I think that for the laymen, they do follow
that line of logic and they think about how you
know it is something that is left behind and to
kind of frame it. And I always fall back to
a man named mom Lecarde, who's our person in forensics.
(04:03):
It's kind of the godfather in forensics for us, and
over one hundred years ago he made a statement. It says,
every contact leads a trace. There's something there and you know,
like you just imagine your thumb. Where an individual is
loading a magazine, they're pressing down very hard, particularly when
they're gay to the high end of the capacity of
the magazine. They're having to apply more pressure directly to
(04:26):
the surface of the months of the live round. But
get it into the magazine comes more and more tense,
so more contacts you have there, the higher probability is
that you'll leave a latent print and there have been
latent prints that have been recovered off the shellcases. We
do things like super glue, fumine, those sorts of things.
You can kind of capture it in that moment. But
the DNA DNA is so and the term molecular is
(04:51):
very accurate here because it's so timy, and it gets
into these places that I think the normal everyday person
you're thinking about, well where can I find evidence? Well,
evidence can be in the tightest of areas, the tiniest
little recesses. When it comes to DNA, it's just do
(05:12):
you have the knowledge and the ability to collect it? Well,
if you use a semi automatic weapon, unless you've got
what's referred to as a brass catcher that catches the
ejected shell cases, you're leading evidence behind. You know, a pro,
a pro worth their salt, would use a revolver, and
you know there are many cases where you can use
(05:33):
like a twenty two magnum for instance, revolver, which is
you know, rather robust round to be so tiny and caliber,
it's highly effective. And obviously in this case, they weren't
trying to mute sound because even the baby, you know,
we have to think back, what did the baby say
you know, boom boom boom, daddy fell down, or you know,
(05:56):
I'm not doing it justice. But that was essentially the
jest of it. So they weren't trying to mask sound here.
They weren't trying to suppress sound. So a pro would
have used a revolver. If you use a revolver, guess
what you do. You take that evidence with you because
the spent rounds in the cylinder are still there. You're
(06:17):
going to haul that off with you. Who this perpetrator
is as cold and callous as it was, and this
is this hits a level of brutality I think just
from a lack of just empathy on his part for
this baby that was at the scene. It wasn't very
bright because you know, you've got all these multiple points
of contact this this tire with a rim, there's points
(06:42):
of contact on that where you can leave you know,
DNA evidence that can be harvested. You could leave a
fingerprint that say, if you're not wearing gloves, because if
you think about any tire, it's got that kind of
dust that's on the surface of it. You know, many
times it's break dust. You'll have grease that's on it
and if you have grease, if you touch that area,
(07:03):
that's what referred to as a plastic print. If you're
very careful when you look at that, you essentially if
if folks listening, we'll just think about think about when
we were kids and we'd use plato or we'd use
silly putty, you know, and you press your finger into it.
You press your finger into it, you can actually pick
up ridge detail off off of that print that has
been left behind. Well, this is kind of a plastic
(07:25):
print if you touch that that kind of greasy or
dusty area. The trick is we're they careful to preserve
all of the surfaces of that tire. So I know,
going kind of far field.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
No, no, no, this is great.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I think this is this case from a physical evidence standpoint,
it's going to come down to impressions. Those things that
are left behind, like the card, every contact lease trace.
So you know, if you look at the list of
things here from potential harvesting of DNA off of spent
shell casing because we obviously they not we but they
obviously don't have the weapon, at least we don't think
(08:02):
they do. You've got perhaps, as you rightly mentioned, if
this was in fact some failed carjacking attempt where you're
going to muscle somebody and they put their hand on
that door lash to force it open and have them
step out of the vehicle. Knowing Florida and the way
they process scenes down there, I would imagine that truck
(08:25):
was hauled off and taken to a forensic garage as
a crime lab, and the whole thing is being I
mean they have gone from stemmed the stern on this thing,
looking at every point of contact in there, that baby's
car seat, what is part of the scene. They're going
to be taking a look at that, any any point
(08:46):
of contact where people are placing their hands on a surface,
And it doesn't matter if it's a smooth, non poor
surface like glass or metal or even fabric, because if
you touch fabric, if you touch fabric, there's a high
probabilit right there that you could source DNA out of
that just through touch DNA that DNA that comes off
(09:06):
from slough skin cell. Yeah, then you think about the tire,
you know, so you've got the tire and all the
components with that, You've got the truck with the Layton prints,
You've got these shell casings. And one of the things
I'm fascinated by is that when you look at the
aerial photography in this case of the area where this
went down, this is immediately adjacent to a very damp environment.
(09:31):
As a matter of fact, there's kind of a little
canal that runs adjacent to the roadway out there. It's
got water. This water in dwelling in the space, and
so you know that it's a damp, humid environment. I
know a lot of people would say, well, that's Laura,
that's no big revelation. You're right, it's not. But if
that water is in that canal area because of the
(09:54):
recent rain, if this perpetrator set this tire out at
this choke point, wheel housing entire however we're going to
phrase it, they had to wait. Well, the question is
what did they do while they were waiting?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, I thought about that a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
If they're standing over in that and it's there's palmetta bushes,
which are kind of these bushy things that you get
them in tropical areas. There's all kinds of interesting vegetation
up there. Then you have kind of a canopy that
rises up about you know, two stories in the air
of trees, it's a great place to hide. But that
soil is very soft and very receptive. So if an
(10:32):
individual is wearing a particular type of shoe boot, that
soil would have been very receptive to holding on to
a pattern left behind by the shoes that the individuals wearing.
You know, the thing about it is is that if
you get a group of cops that are, you know,
(10:53):
kind of cowboying it up and they're just running around wild,
which I don't think that they did, you can stop
upon evidence and some of the stuff is very reprivual.
I hope that it was very well secured if they
did find footprints, which I think there's a higher probability
that they did out that same because of solid the soil,
the texture of the soil, and you can document that
(11:14):
maybe cast those areas you're going to have again another
point of connectivity that could in fact leads you back
to portrayer in this cave.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's such a good point and I thought about that
a lot, like the person that did this had to
be working with somebody else, because you have to know
Jared's coming, there's nobody behind him. It's safe to do this,
you know, communicating right and they would have to have
been hiding in that wooded area. They would have to be.
But if it's a random attack like a carjacking or
(11:44):
a road rage incident, not that it was, but if
it was, then they wouldn't have found anything because the
person wouldn't have gone into the woods. Right, The person
likely wouldn't have gone into the woods.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, and again this for me, this goes to you
know how I mentioned about you know, semi automatic weapon
versus revolver. Right, this is somebody that at least had
a base plan. I didn't think everything through. Because he
thought everything through, there were certain things that they would
not have done. I think chief among these as you
would have taken the time to pick up that tire room.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And haul it off with you, right, and the showcasings
and shellcasing.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We don't know what the distribution was of the shellcases
either were they in the grass or were they just
laying out on the surface of the road. And that's important. Yeah,
when one of these things ejects and it hits concrete
asphalt surface, it'll bounce, literally bounce. And because it's such
a you know, it's got it's cylindrical in shape and
(12:43):
it's got all these weird kind of edges on it.
It'll hit that contact and surface and it'll just bounce
and there's no there's no predictability to it where it's
going to wind up. Now that the casings were in
the grass on the shoulder of the road, then again
this isn't a great predictor, but at least you would
kind of have them in a tighter area. But when
(13:07):
you get onto a hard surface and you again popping
off rounds, those cases can be distributed all over the place.
So you can't look at the distribution patterns of spent
shell cases and say, Okay, this person was standing definitively
right here, because it's just.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
So random where they land.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Right it is. It's one of the most random things.
And you know, and again one of the worst sounds
crime saying of us there can hear at night when
you're out on only seeing in a very poorly litle area,
which I'd have to say this is again that the
person plan for this is that that metal tink that
you hear is you kick a shell spent shell case
and with your foot because you didn't see it. It
(13:47):
can just be that random and the thing goes rolling
across the ground. Well, now you've lost all your points
of reference, you know, with that where it was distributed,
and that does happen. I'm chief among centers, I've kicked them,
I've stucked them, and had not didn't have an awareness
you know, that was going on. But if it's in
the grass, that's that's totally you know, that's a bit different.
(14:08):
And this is just kind of one of those points
when you think about crime scene investigations, and one of
the reasons we really stress this is that you have
to have a gatekeeper out there. You do not want
a huge number of people inside the tape because you
increase the factor that something could go wrong exponentially with
(14:30):
every person that you put inside the tape. So the
fewer hands on deck, you would think, well, god, we
need somebody to help us manage this. Yeah, you do.
They need to stand outside the tape, and you have
the technicians that are within the tape, particularly early on,
so that you can kind of get a feel for
what's going on. And this case is very difficult. Why
(14:50):
people might ask why, you know, Morgan, why why is
this case more difficult than you know than another, Well,
it's outdoors, and anytime you have something outdoors, it's it's
not controlled. I've had wild animals walk across scenes at uh,
you know, crime scenes. I've had dogs walk up and
start snipping out of blood and drinking blood at crime
(15:12):
scenes and you don't have any control over that, Whereas
if you're inside of a dwelling, it's a controlled environment.
You know that that you find yourself in at that
moment time, and you can you know, shut the doors,
and it's very I'm not saying it's it's easy, but
it's it's more controllable. And then of course in Florida,
(15:35):
you never know when it's going to rain, and that's
one of the worst things that can happen is that's
crime scene investigati. When you hear the distant roll of thunder,
I'm that that happened. That happens quite frequently.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm gonna look that up. I want to know what
the weather conditions were.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I think that that's very important. Yeah, what phase was
the moon into? Because no, no, no, you want to
you want to know what the moon was in because
it's going to provide ambient lighting if it's a clear night,
and even if you've got say a half moon that's
out there, then the scene will be partially illuminated, you know,
(16:12):
if it's overcast. Even if you've got full moon, it's
it's more difficult, you know. And in an area like this,
one of the things that happens and I don't know
that necessarily happened in this particular case. First off, crimesing units,
it's kind of standard now that they carry a generator
with horrible lighting. In the past, if it is so
(16:34):
bloody dark out of the scene, we would actually call
the fire department. And they have what's called a light
truck at bigger departments, and it's got these gigantic, gigantic
spotlights on the things that many people don't ever see these,
and it will just blast away all of the darkness.
Set to call for other you know, for other assets
to come in so that you can work this thing,
(16:56):
you know, and you know, homicides don't occur at most
convenient time. You have to, you know, you have to
dance to the tune that's currently being played, and you
have to be prepared to bit at one show up.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
What's the danger in waiting for like the sunrise? Is
it that does the evidence degrade? If it's outside and maybe.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
It starts raining, like yeah, yeah, yeah, there is a
danger you don't And look, there are certain cases where
we've held them overnight, but we have started processing cases,
you know, like I'll vie for instance, if you have
a clandestine grave, for instance, where you know where you
have a victim that's located, maybe you've outlined it out,
(17:38):
You've maybe have a grid that's placed over and the
sun goes down. You don't necessarily want to be doing
a body recovery in a non lighted environment, I mean
where it requires daylight to do it. In those cases, yeah,
you would hold off. But in a case that's kind
of dispersed and you really don't know what's going on,
(18:00):
you can mind this occurred at night, you know, so
you're not going to know the full depth and breadth
of it, and you don't know what could be compromised
by you not attending to it, particularly when it comes
to blood evidence, and that's that's the big bugaboo here.
If you have any kind of blood evidence, whether it
be from the victim, which there would have been blood
(18:22):
evidence relative to Jared unfortunately, or if they got into
a scuffle or something and the perpetrator was bleeding, you
won't be able to appreciate those bits of blood and
it can be compromised. So you have to flood it
with as much light as you can and try to
process it at that moment in time, because it can
(18:43):
be literally washed away. I mean. And again, my friends
in Florida that I know that you know, do forensics
down there. That's and I work in South Louisiana, which
is not too much different than Florida and these hostile environments,
and Florida is a hostile And I don't mean this
about the people or the I'm talking about the atmosphere.
I'm talking about that world in which people live in,
(19:06):
you know, down there, and they're aware of it there.
You know, you're not breaking new news to them. They
know every time you walk out of the house, you're
dripping sweat many times, okay, And you're subject to the
environment that you're in, any any environment that we're in.
And then with biological evidence, in particular, the longer it
(19:26):
is left unattended or uncollected and documented and all the
sorts of things that we do, there's a higher probability
it's going to degrade. And you just you want to
avoid that at all costs, and some you know, look,
if the circumstances dictate many times, how we're going to
react and behave and all those sorts of things. And
you know, sometimes you get to a body and it's
(19:48):
it's hours and hours after the person has died. You
don't have any control over that, and so you kind
of have to jump in midstream and just process it
as best you can and just understand the world and
what you're working.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Let's stop here for a break.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
We'll be back in a moment. Typically in the court case,
there's two types of testimony. There's a witness testimony, somebody
who physically saw it, I saw the shooter. The other
(20:23):
testimony is expert witness testimony, somebody like you, well, there
was a night witness Gyard's daughter two years old. But
can a child testify in a case like this as
a night with John.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I can't even begin to imagine that as they would
do that, the remembrances would be so clouded and a
child that young. Now, I think probably, and this is
going to enter into I don't really know. This is
kind of outside of my spuere, but I think maybe
the way that the prosecution might because listen, this is
(20:56):
powerful stuff, maybe the most powerful thing about this case.
In my estimation, at least, the child is an ear
witness to this event. Okay, they're going to try to
get that into, you know, into the case they're going
to when this thing goes to trial, or try to.
They want to get that statement, you know, that statement
that she made about our day. I could see them
(21:17):
getting the police officer that took that statement or spoke
with that child, or if it was a social worker
or whoever, get them on the stand and address that issue.
In addition to that, I could see them reaching out
to a side child psychologist or forensic psychologists and ask
them how much how much weight should we give to
(21:38):
this statement that was made, And then they'll go into
the you know, into destruction of the brain of a
child's age and talk about the cognitibility, their ability to communicate,
and they'll get them on the stand. And it's probably
the combination of those two things. With the official that
took the statement from a child, if you want to
call it a statement, and then an expert rendering you know,
(21:58):
how much weight should you get to it, they could
probably get them understand I just can't see them putting
on the sand.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, that's where I'm trying to go with this and
Jared's case. You're not going to have any eye witness.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
You're going to rely on physical evidence left at the scene. Yeah,
and that's why, and using experts in the field, and
I'd like to kind of we have time kind of
go over some of the.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Things we do know. So we do know that there
were shellcases left, that's the thing, right from semi automatic.
And as you said, you know, if a professional would
have done this, they would have probably used a revolver.
So there were times in this case where Deanna and
I talking list man, this is very professional, and then
you hear about shell casing being left that's the scene,
and you go, well, that's not very professional. So there's
(22:43):
a lot of talk about you know, you can identify
the type of gun or from the hammer that strikes
the firing cap in it. So obviously they're going to
know the size of based on the shell. They're going
to know what size bullet would use.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Correct, Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it would. There would be
the stamp on the base of the spint cartridge that
will give you manufacture and it will give you caliber,
whether it's a forty cow nine millimeter, ten milimeter, forty
five caliber, whatever the case. We you know, I'm working
on the assumption that this is a semi automatic weapon
(23:20):
because they recovered spell, recovered spent brass. Let's saying, you know,
unless somebody, unless this person was such a fool that
they would dump a cylinder at the scene, you know,
from a revolver, And I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, And for the listeners, what do you is meaning
is a revolver has that round thing that you see
in the Old West, or they spin it in order
to empty it. You would have to pull a latch.
The cylinder would flip to one side. Then you would
have to put another thing down that would ejact eject.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
The ejector rod.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, it would eject all the shell casings out
of that cylinder, so you could load more bullets and
then put.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It back in.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Versus a semi automatic which has a magazine or what
we primarily referred to as a clip, and put the
clip in the handle, do you rack the slide. It
loads one bullet into the chamber. You pull the thin
the energy from the bullet being the gunpowder expanding, shooting
the bullet out the barrel, then pushes his slide back
(24:16):
that then takes the shelf casing ejects out of the
bullet and one of the next bullet, and the clip
slides up into the chamber. So when you talk about
a brass catcher, that would be an attachment to it.
So it's this case is this isn't the case where
I go, well, that's not very professional to lead ship.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Oh it's suddenly you know, you might look at the
body and say, well, we can assess it the scene
that he appears to have gunshot. Womans will know more,
you know, because at the scene, you're there's nobody that's
going to be at the scene that will can say
that something is in fact a gunshot wound. They'll say
you have circular defects or regular defects in a body.
(24:56):
I get pushed back from that all the time, you know,
like a cam like, well, this is a gunshot wound.
And you're not a board certified friends of pathology. So
you know, immediately the defense hops on you and says, oh, really,
where'd you go to medical school? Where'd you do your
pathology residency? Where'd you do your fellowship in forensic pathology,
So they can call it a gunshot wound. But the
safest thing is to say this is a circular defect
(25:19):
in the body. Now, once the medical examiner makes their
assessment and they say, yes, this is in fact a
gunshot woman, we've got stippling here, we've got a powdered distribution.
Oh and by the way, we recovered to let core
projectile out the body, and we have X rays to
demonstrate this, and here's the physical projectile. Even if you
have the ballistics on that, sometimes the bullet will be
(25:40):
compromised to the point where you won't have the ability
to say definitively that this is a certain caliber without
sending it to the ballistics lab and have them visualize it,
actualize it, examine it, and generate a report. Shortcut here
is the fact that you've got spent brass at the scene.
So you can look at that and say, for the detective,
this is huge because he's got spent brass laying all
(26:02):
over the place. And not only can they say that
it's this caliber and it's this manufacturer, because now you've
got a place where you can start doing sales research exactly.
And one other thing that people don't think about with
spent brass is that you know, you did a great
job of describing the sequencing of the ejection process when
(26:29):
those rounds are loaded up through the magazine and you
initiate that firing sequence. Well, what happens internally with a
semi automatic weapon is you've got a mechanism within it
that essentially grabs that round that has been fired and
it drags it across, drags it across the surface of
these of this extractor mechanism that's inside the housing. And
(26:52):
guess what, that's unique to that weapon. So now that
piece of brass is flying through the air and it's
got extractor marks on it. So if you ever do
you recover the weapon, you can take that piece of
brass and you can fire that same type of ammunition
out of that weapon. Collect that brass and do a
comparison between what you found at the scene and what
(27:13):
you generate in a lab if you suspect that this
is the weapon use and they can do a ballistic
comparison with that, and it's it's not it doesn't have
as much weight as when you're you see them in
these movies where they'll fire a weapon into a big
barrel full of water and they catch that round, and
you look at the ballistic signature that's left behind the
striations and all these sorts of things that land and roods,
(27:35):
and you know the the fingerprint that's essentially left on
the soft metal surface of the projectile that carries more weight. However,
you know the totality of that scientific examination where you
have spent brass and then you marry that up with
the test fire round compared to the rounds that you recovered. Unfortunately,
(27:55):
maybe from the body it's seen, or maybe around that
has passed through the body lodged in them around or
maybe because I still don't I still don't understand the
positionality of the shooter relative to Jared. They shoot Jared once,
knocking to the ground, and they stand over him and
fire into him.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I have a video of the shots, but it's just
audio and it's just boom, boom boom, So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
It kind of leads me into this whole versus a
professional versus an amateur that committed this. So you know,
at the scene when we hear about the shell case,
and you immediately go to a semi automatic. Why would
the person leave the shelf? And that's what comes to
my mind that makes me think maybe this wasn't a
professional that did the job. And so like that's the
(28:43):
thing that gets me and I keep getting hung up on,
Like at one point on time, this is like how
to get away with murder? Win on one, this is
like the perfect crime. You know, we're ten minutes down
the road. They still don't know. They have some ideas.
But so that was the thing that stuck out with
me so early. You would talk about latent prints and
DNA on non porous surfaces. So how about a tire.
(29:07):
Anybody who's ever changed a flat tire on the side
of the road knows it's very physical. Your hands on,
you're gonna get dirty, You're gonna get brake dust and
whatever your car's kicked up while it's driving down the road.
So I'm assuming that tire was on the word f
one fifty they're looking for. They had a flat, so
I'm going they had to physically touch it.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Would a fingerprint last on rubber? In this case, I
think that the potential for it, particularly if it was
on a medium like oil or grease, it could be
transferred to it. Okay, Like if you grabbed the inner
hub of a wheel, it could have oil or grease,
grease primarily I think, and also the brake dust. So
(29:47):
if they took care when they went to examine the
tire again, you go back to something like super blue fuming,
you could capture a print in that environment. Another thing
that they'll use also when trying to retreat prints is
using what's referred to as alternative light sources. Because light
is on a spectrum and so you're using, say, for instance,
(30:08):
like ultra violet light. You can take photos of things
using ultraviolet light filters and you'll be able to see
things that you would not normally see. So that's another
way they can capture evidence off of the tire. I think, yeah,
I think that probably we're reaching the outer marker now,
but there's other pieces of evidence to consider here. I think,
(30:29):
in going back to the tire, I think one of
the things that we might forget about is you have
to look to soil signs. In this case as well,
you brought up you had brought up the idea that
this person if they were from an out of state
or they had traveled out of state, you know, all
soil is not the same. So if you're coming from
let's say Florida is just adjacent to Georgia, right, Well,
(30:50):
if you had used the truck on a job, if
you're a contractor, use that truck on a job in
the Piedmont region of Georgia, which is before you get
to fall on, which is where the soil turns real
sandy and it starts to sweep down towards the Gulf
of Mexico and the Atlantic coast of Florida. That soil
looks completely different in the Piedmont region than it does
(31:13):
down in that coastal region. The same thing applies as
you go north of the Piedmont you start to get
into Appalachia. If they're doing a job up there, let's
say in North Carolina or Tennessee, that soil is completely
different than Piedmont and it's certainly different than the coastal soil.
So soil is certainly something you would look for on
that tire. In particular, I can guarantee you they're looking
at that.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
That would be fabulous. I mean, if there is a
soil sample in that tire, that it's unique, right, Like
maybe they work on a gravel pit. I don't know
that would be fabulous, but I feel like if that
were the case, John, don't you think that we would
know by now?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yes and no?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Or is this yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
This is the stuff that they're holding close to, right,
So we Gaana and I used the term puma idents
that police have but they don't make public so that
you know, once they find the person and they'll know
for sure this is them. So the tire. So I'm
looking at the picture of the tire now and it
looks like it has tread, but it doesn't happen very much.
So the police are looking for a Ford F one
(32:16):
fifteen manufactured between the years two thousand and four two
thousand and eight. So let's just say the last year
two thousand and eight is doing this thing. Most tires
last forty fifty thousand miles. This you know, this vehicle
is two thousand and eight twenty twenty twenty two. That's
the eight years they've probably had to replace tires within
those eight years. Is there information manufacturer information can be
(32:39):
on this tire that may tell them when it was manufactured,
where it came from, and possibly what area of the
country like I live in southern California. We don't buy
snow tires and we don't need them, whereas people in
the north and eat northeast too. Is there going to
be information manufacturer information on the tire that may help
them find where this came from.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, oh, most definitely you'll be able to you know,
there'll be a lot number that this thing will go
back to. And here here's another fascinating piece to evidence
collected from tires you have. With tires, you have what's
referred to as OE, which is called original equipment. So
(33:22):
let's say Ford, if Ford has a contract with be
a good Richard, Firestone or good Year, that is that
came up in the year model of that of that vehicle.
Maybe they had a contract for that year that they're
going to supply that company. A is going to supply
Ford Motor Company with this type of tire. You know,
(33:44):
because when a vehicle rolls off the line, it's got
tires on it. Okay, so they subcontract that out. So
let's just say, for instance, that they had new tires
that were placed on the truck and they had this
OE tire that they kept around for a spare. Well,
that tells you something about the individual, right, it tells
(34:05):
you the point of origin for the oe, what year
was it manufactured, where did it come from, what lot
did it come out of? If you know, because if
you just look at the on the sidewalls, if you
just look at the all of that data that's contained
on the side of there, you can kind of begin
to paint a picture of the point of origin, maybe
not specifically to that truck, but certainly to that that tire.
(34:29):
And I think that that's very important here. And when
you're trying to process all of this evidence, it does
take time. You know. It's like you know, Granny's quilt
that she's passed down from years and years ago to
the family and each body, each person involved it did
a square. Well, each one of the squares has got
a point of point of origin, okay, and it's what
(34:51):
makes the quote unique. And in a forensic case, it's
just like that, each one of these bits of evidence
will be unique to itself. Even you drowning in evidence, okay,
sometimes you can have believe it or not. You have
too much evidence, it becomes overwhelming, I think if you
haven't planned accordingly, and when you have too much evidence,
(35:12):
sometimes you can get focused on certain things and lose
focus on other things. So you have to have somebody
who's coming in charge that's saying, Okay, this is significant,
this is significant, and just imagine the biggest vend docms
that you've ever seen in your life, and everything has
its importance to the case. It's all about attempting to
measure the value of each one of those little circles
(35:35):
and what's it going to bring to the case. What's it?
You know, right now we're still at the phase we
just want to find out who this is and is
this truck actually associated with the crime. I think there's
probably a high likelihood it is, but we have to
get to that point first. Before you know, they actually
put the bracelets on anybody and you see them purp
walking into a courthouse somewhere.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, that's that's the other part of this case that
you think professional would not use the tire from the
vehicle they were driving to get to the scene or
flee the scene. That's the thing that's like, why would
I did believe the tire there and it just brings
things into question.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Let's stop here for another quick break.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
One of the other items in talking to Kirsten Jared's
wife is the vehicle, the Volk Flagon he was driving,
the police still have it. Her insurance company tolded it
to let the police have it. Kristen had to sign
a release form so the police could pull what's one
as the black box from Jared's vehicle? What kind of
information is collected on the what is a black box?
(36:51):
And what kind of information is collected on that inside
a vehicle? And then they had security camera videos in
their house, but she had hidden some extra ones underneath
the bed, adding debate in the kids room. Uh, they
had found a USB stick in his vehicle that was
recording audio and so apparently he had so he had
confronted her about this. But one of the things Deanna
(37:11):
and I was, it's only he put a tracking device
on his vehicle that night or before to see where
he was going, to be able to see where.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
He was at and when they could commit.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
The crime where right? Yeah, police would have searched the
car for that, correct.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah. They they would have gone from stem to stern
searching the undercarriage of the vehicle. And I would assume
that the technology exists for them to sweep the vehicle
electronically to see if there's anything that may have been
giving off a signal. My assumption is is if they
still have this vehicle, that it would be being held
(37:49):
and that if there was an item on there that
would be providing any kind of signal that could be
sent back somewhere, they would be able to find it located.
That technology does in fact exist. We've seen it in
several other cases where you know, people were tracking others,
you know, famously in the Pike in case, you know,
(38:11):
where the police they put trackers on the Wagner family's
vehicles and they became you know, very very very much
aware of that. So yeah, and it's possible for people
to you know, to do.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
This unless they grabbed it before they left, right, Like
they left an air tag on the car, and they
grabbed it before they left, right.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And they removed it from there. But if you've got
an air tag, I would imagine that there is some
kind of digital footprint that's left behind relative to the
existence of that air tag, as it applies back to
an account that it's associated with, and that would be
something that could track as well. And it's you know,
it's like pulling it teeth to get get data from
(38:52):
them and they're working on a case. From everything I've
been able to understand regarding cases involved in the you know,
digital digital evidence, you know, police contract things relatively easy,
dependent upon they pulled the information off of local towers
and that sort of thing. We're talking about cell phone data,
these other items that are kind of buried within the
(39:14):
technology of Apple. I think that that's a bit more
difficult to harvest out of there.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It's just hard to imagine. Somebody is hiding in that
wooded area, right and they have to know if Jared
was targeted, they have to know he's coming. He's going
to be here in forty seconds. Let's say, I gotta
I gotta put the I gotta leave my little spot
and put the tire in the middle of the road
and get back to my spot. So they have to
(39:45):
be able to communicate that, right, Like, they have to
know And how are they going to know he's coming
if they're hiding.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
That would be based on the fact that Jared was
been targeting.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Well, that's what I'm saying. Assuming he was targeted, they
either have to have communications with somebody maybe following Jared,
like I'm right behind him. There's nobody behind me. We're
going to be there in forty five seconds, so they
have to be communicating with somebody that's hiding or he's
being dropped. There's no other way to do this. I
thought we should talk to forensic specialist Joseph Morgan. He
(40:17):
might be able to help talk us through the crime
seat a little.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
The last piece of evidence at the scene, unfortunately, with
Jared and his body, so they're what we've been told
or what you can read about, is that he was shot. Unfortunately,
the suspect shot.
Speaker 5 (40:32):
On close quarters within three or four feet, and they
know this because around the bullet wounds is stiffling.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Can you talk about stippling and how important that is?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yeah, you know, you think about stifling. The best way
to kind of described to people that have never seen
most people can think about a water hose okay, and
if you have an attachment on the water hose, a
sprayer okay, the tighter de strayer is pulled is kind
of tight down on it. You know, you get this
(41:04):
kind of long stream right it comes out. However, you
can take a sprayer on a water hose and open
it and it comes out almost like a range shower.
I don't know, if you're kind of visualize in that,
but it kind of sprays out and it's kind of why, well,
imagine that that is a weapon that's being fired, and
(41:24):
so the further away you are from the target area,
the broader the deposition of the stippling is going to be.
So the further you are away from your target area,
with the analogy of the water hose, the spray will
be broader. Okay, it'll be less concentric, it will kind
(41:46):
of spread out. Same thing applies to the fire when
you fire a weapon into a static location, whether it's
you know, a target that you have end up on
a tree or a firing range, or into a human.
If you're within with pan guns, if you're within about
eighteen inches, that's going to be kind of the out
limit where the power itself that is not burned up
(42:11):
is just going to kind of drift down to the
ground because it's not powder itself is not very aerodynamic
what the bullet is. So once that initial burst, you know,
the ground is popped off if you will, the lack
of aerodynaticism of the powder will cause it just kind
of just away and the bullets spinning out of the
(42:31):
end of the the end of the weapon is going
to maintain and retain its energy until it strikes its target.
So what we can understand here is that the closer
you are through the target, the tighter the stippling pattern
will be. So you know, when you're you know, we
have we do what are called the sparious ranges. Will
(42:53):
say close close range, which would be you know, within
about one to two inches, all right, And before you
get close trained you have what's reports to as heart
content pressed attact, which means the muscle is pressed into
the target location, into the skin, and when you pull
trigger and in initiates, you're not going to have a
(43:16):
lot of powder because it's all being blown into the wound,
into the cavities and created. So he stepped back, you
go to you know, two to three inches. That's close.
And then before you drift back, you get into this
realm that's called intermediate. Now, intermediate is kind of meduless.
You know, they'll people will try to apply different ranges
(43:36):
to it and say, well, this person was definitely add
a ten inch raine. Okay, maybe they were, but you
it's it's going to be depended upon several facts. But
what we can surmise is if the police are saying
that there was stippling on Jared's body adjacent to this wound,
we know that the killer was in relatively close proximity
(43:58):
to him as his weapons being fount If they're saying
three to four feet, that would be at the outer
powder limits of of what you would find with powdered distribution.
And when they're saying stippling, you know, stipling, you have
it on clothing, you truly can. But generally stippling is
(44:18):
something that you know, most of the time we talk
about relative to you know, scan so I'd be very
curious to know where, you know, where this entrance land was,
you know, Other than that you're begin to think about,
you know, when you're talking about clothing, generally the term
issues just powdered distribution. So that's kind of you know,
stippling is a very specific anatomical statement that you're making
(44:41):
there because the powder is burned, it's kind of beneath,
kind of embedded itself beneath the epidermis, and you can
really see it. You know, it's it's striking, you know
all it's easy to search out on the webcam to
this quite quite easily, and so you get an idea
of different ranges for that. You know, you get up
we're talking about why they have a bit more distance
(45:04):
to them, you know, you know that claim that that
will go out, you know, several feet and we'll just
still get a powdered distribution. It's a lot more power
though that you're talking about what you're talking about rock.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
All right, Well, that that answers all my questions regarding that. Yes, sure,
anything anything for you, danna No.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
I'm I'm overwhelmed. More on that next time.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Deanna Thompson,
Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnaut, and me John Green.
Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile, Editing by
Jeff Ti Music by Vanicor Music.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
True Crimes is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, please visit the
iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.