New Perspectives

John and Deanna approach Tamara with all the updated information on Shacaiah and all the progress that's been made. Another major break in Jareds case is announced. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
in the basement.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Somebody told you that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
I'm come to find out.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is like it exploded into this huge thing.

Speaker 4 (00:12):
I knew, I just knew something was wrong.

Speaker 5 (00:14):
Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride Again was
shot dead.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
I kept calling his phone during the drive.

Speaker 5 (00:20):
Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.

Speaker 6 (00:22):
It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
he was targeted. Eventually a police officer answered and told
me to come to the police station.

Speaker 6 (00:34):
Justice is something that takes different shapes or forms.

Speaker 7 (00:38):
If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
late to.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Do the right thing.

Speaker 8 (00:45):
So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.

Speaker 6 (00:48):
I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
animal abusers arrested.

Speaker 8 (01:01):
We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
We spent over a year and a half trying to
get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnatdah.

Speaker 6 (01:15):
Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Don't Fuck with Cats.

Speaker 8 (01:20):
That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.

Speaker 6 (01:29):
This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Kat's Studios.

Speaker 8 (01:36):
So in our last episode, we got some really good news.
Police in Florida have made an arrest for the murder
of Jared Bright, again, charging sixty two year old Henry
Tennen for the murder.

Speaker 6 (01:45):
But there are still a lot of unanswered questions to
this case, mainly who is Henry Tenyan and why did
he plan, plot and kill Jared And what's Henry's connection
to Jared to begin with, or to Jared's ex wife
Shana and her new husband Mario. I mean, it still
feels like there's a lot of unknowns in this case,
and I think we need to continue digging. We need
to go look through some social media and other publicly

(02:06):
available on information.

Speaker 8 (02:07):
But while we do that, we also got a massive
win in Shokaia's case. We've been waiting for her father
to sign the FBI DNA Forum so Shakaia's information can
be uploaded into a national database. According to Yellowstone County
Sheriff's Office Detective Fritz, he said that he's been trying
to get this DNA from the family since the case started.
So for us to be able just to make a

(02:28):
phone call and get this look at he split in
a couple of days, I mean, it definitely highlights some
problems in the system. So now we finally got our
hands on this key piece of the puzzle that we've
been waiting on, and it's very exciting.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Mike's on the line, Mike, Hey, did you get any snow?

Speaker 9 (02:50):
Oh yeah, we got a bunch of snow and it's
like ten degrees out.

Speaker 8 (02:53):
I saw the pictures, you said, absolutely gorgeous. Last time
we talked, you had sent us the FBI form, right, yep,
So get this. I called because I wanted to tell
her about the form, right, and that what you had
found you had, called Detective Fritz, and she her mom
was there, and so her mom put me on speakerphone

(03:14):
and we just kind of chatted, right she said, we
will definitely get Chikaia's dad to sign this form. So
I got I was out last night. I was out
for dinner and I got a ping on my phone
and it was an email from Shawnee and she got
I got the form signed. Nice, and so I have it.
I'm gonna send it to you tonight, okay, and then

(03:38):
we'll go from there. I thought you would be more.

Speaker 9 (03:40):
Excited, No, I am. I was just going to ask, like,
how long is it going to take when you get
that farm's ligned? Because the sooner the better. So that's awesome. No, No,
it's really cool, excellent.

Speaker 6 (03:49):
Nice.

Speaker 9 (03:49):
Yeah, And I'll call you know, sometime mid morning, give
them time to get in the office. I'll call him
and let him know that we got it, yeah, and
then I'll email it to him. I'll email, but once
I get it, yeah, I'll get it. I'll send it
right to him and then he'll get that submitted to
the FBI, he said right away. And we'll know right
away if any law enforcements, you know, found a body,

(04:12):
God forbid, maybe they don't get one that no hit is.
That's info too, so you know no hit is good
in FO two.

Speaker 8 (04:20):
So Yeah, that's so true. No hit is good. Yeah.
So the following night we talked to Mike Talk again.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
So hey, Mike, the last time we talked, we had
gotten that form that needed to be signed and we
got it in your hands, right, yes, and then you
are going to contact Yellowstone County Sheriffs that we got
the form correct.

Speaker 10 (04:43):
And I called the detectives and he was surprised, like,
oh wow, you get in and I was like, yeah,
we got her. So today I'm gonna email it to
you right now, and he says great. He goes, I
will send it next week with the DNA to the
FBI and that'll be entered into their their database to
see if we get a hit, and if we don't
get a hit, it'll distain the database in case somebody

(05:05):
submits some DNA, you know that it would show that her.
This will be submitted to their database like kind of
like a fingerprint, submitting fingerprints to see if we get
a hit. They'll submit it in case her body was found,
that's say in Arizona with no identification Arizona would submit
DNA to the FBI trying to identify her. So by

(05:25):
us now by the Yelson County now submitting her DNA.
It'll be on file. God forbid, it's found that way.

Speaker 9 (05:32):
But at least, you know.

Speaker 10 (05:33):
We've got the needle moving in a direction that wasn't
there before we started.

Speaker 9 (05:38):
So we've got that accomplishment.

Speaker 8 (05:39):
The most important thing is that the FBI gets a DNA,
and we were able to facilitate that. So that's the
most important thing, and I'm happy about that. After talking
to Mike Talk, we reconnected with Michael Streied from SketchCop
dot com.

Speaker 6 (05:53):
SketchCop was working on an age progression of Choicaia so
we could make an updated missing person poster for her family.

Speaker 8 (06:02):
I Danna sketch Cop, our favorite cop.

Speaker 7 (06:05):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 8 (06:07):
How are you?

Speaker 7 (06:08):
I'm doing fine. How are you guys doing so?

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Mike, the last time Deanna spoke with you on the phone,
provided you with some pictures and kind of gave you
a general idea what maybe she looked like. So what
have you been up to in that time?

Speaker 7 (06:22):
Just working on the photograph itself, amongst other crimes and
other and sundry things I've been dealing with and working on.
So that's why it's and I you know, and I
really took a lot of time to look at it,
because every time I do these, I try to get
myself into the mindset of, you know, this is a
just a just a very pretty young lady, and some
of the stuff that you're describing to me that you know,

(06:45):
the lifestyle is she might be engaging in now you know,
some of the dangerous stuff that she was doing before
she disappeared. And then then of course you know, we're
we're thinking the worst of course, because she hasn't turned
up voluntarily or otherwise, you know, danger her lifestyle, drugs,
possibly human trafficking. It's going to take a toll on
someone like her. So I just wanted to be very

(07:08):
careful to ride that fine line of trying to keep
her look while at the same time show the ravages
of that sort of lifestyle. So it was there was
still that sweetness in there. You can still tell just
a proud young woman, but at the same time it
reflects that just the wear and tear of what happens
with folks that are out there. I'm gonna push saying

(07:31):
that it's yikes, no way here we come.

Speaker 8 (07:33):
I've got it. Oh wow, she looks like her mom. Wow,
that looks like Tamera. She's still beautiful, and you still captured,
like you said, that sweetness, right.

Speaker 7 (07:44):
Yeah, I tried to keep that, and I elevated her
chin just to I turned her face a little bit,
and I elevated the chin so she didn't look so
beaten down, so to speak. And then then just a
burder her gaze just a bit, just kind of get
that wistful look.

Speaker 8 (07:58):
Still very beautiful, but you can see just a little
bit of age, you know, nothing crazy. She still looks
like Shakaia.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Wow.

Speaker 8 (08:08):
I got the chills, dude, all right, I'm gonna download
that one. I got the chills, like for real.

Speaker 11 (08:14):
I like it because it captures that still looks innocent
kind of look that she had, you know, and but
I think it captures her overall character. Her overall look
isn't there. So I'm ready to go to the second version.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Is this going to be the short hair version?

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Mike?

Speaker 8 (08:29):
Yes, okay, Oh that looks different. Oh wow, you know,
I have to tell you, if she had short hair,
I don't know that I would recognize her looking at
this photo.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
That's the first thing that yeah, it's the first thing
that came across.

Speaker 8 (08:41):
My mind, right, and I've looked at all of her
pictures like one hundred times, and if I saw her
this woman walking down the street, I don't know that
I would look twice. Wow, that makes such a big difference.
Holy well, I mean, I'm I'm very impressed with your work.
First of all, Like obviously you're very talented. I mean
this is like forensic artistry, right, like this is this

(09:05):
is very talented. But I'm stunned at how different V
two looks like she would be what she would be
twenty four now, living possibly a hard life, and I
think this really captures that while still keeping her sweetness.
I think this is so well done. I was really

(09:26):
nervous because I didn't want to upset her family while
still respecting the concept that we, you know, we want
her to be recognized, right, That's that's the fine balance,
like you were saying. And I think that they're going
to see that sweetness in her still and I appreciate
that for them. So now let's give Shakai's mom Tamora.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
I'll call these new updated photos from SketchCop and getting
Shakaia's DNA into the FBI database are huge steps in
the right direction, and they may help solve this missing
person case.

Speaker 8 (09:59):
We gave Detective Fritz Dwight's DNA release, thank you guys
for doing that, so he's gonna send it off to
the FBI. So she turns up like in a hospital
or somewhat even jail even and doesn't know who she is,
you know, because that could happen. You know, that could happen.
They'll be able to identify her anywhere in the country.
So that's a big deal. We're really happy about that.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
Yes, I'm I'm excited because it's been about a year
since you've been trying to get that.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Going for her DNA.

Speaker 8 (10:25):
Yeah, yeah, so that's a really good thing.

Speaker 6 (10:29):
Do I really appreciate you and I have hope, Like
I've always wanted to know somebody who was out there
helping me, you know.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
And it's a blessing to know that you guys are
out there.

Speaker 8 (10:38):
And I really appreciate you, guys, I do, Camra.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (10:42):
That means a lot. That means more to me than
you know. Yes, I know, it really does, And I
really I am holding out hope that I'll be able
to meet her, do you know what I mean? I
don't care who I don't care who finds her. I
just want her to get found. Don't care if it's me.
I just want to give her a hug and.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
With her birthday.

Speaker 8 (11:04):
Oh baby.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
But I'm so thankful for you guys, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (11:07):
God bless you guys.

Speaker 12 (11:10):
So, like this is everything that we would need to
create like a missing person's poster.

Speaker 8 (11:15):
And I have like a like a lot.

Speaker 12 (11:17):
I have like some calculations running, like today's date versus
the date she went missing, how long she's.

Speaker 8 (11:22):
Been missing, how old she is now?

Speaker 12 (11:25):
You know it's all calculated, right, so you're not going
to mess with the forms and stuff. So she's been
missing for fifty four months, you know that whole thing,
and then all like her social media when she was
reported missing.

Speaker 8 (11:38):
So let's do let's go get some older photos of her.

Speaker 13 (11:42):
Let's go look, let's go here, and I go to
y'all and I go to her social media and we'll
just pick a couple of different pictures of her uploads,
upload files, may.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Short hair.

Speaker 13 (12:01):
You know what we could do.

Speaker 8 (12:02):
And I was going to ask you about this.

Speaker 14 (12:04):
So there's a website like link tree, let's say, and
there are permanent links on a permanent website that have
like different things like our ocent page right, permanent link
you get it. What if we made one of these
from Shikaya and put links for Shakaya that people can

(12:24):
scan with their que like for instance, yes, right, let's
say you know one that we create that we can
constantly add an update. Right, So there's a QR code
people can scan it. It takes them to a link
tree that we can give anybody access to. Shawne, I
don't care, you know what I mean, Like, we'll turn
it over. It doesn't matter. That can constantly be updated

(12:45):
with new links like the phone number for Yellowstone PD.

Speaker 6 (12:50):
You know, I like it, I get it.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Let's do it, Okay.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
So that's what it looks like right now?

Speaker 8 (12:54):
Perfect, all right, sweetheart, I think we're good. I'll upload
and I'll finish the rest tomorrow and this weekend, and
then maybe we can schedule a call with the family
they took over all of this next week.

Speaker 6 (13:07):
Sounds good to me. But just because we finished with
the poster doesn't mean we were done with Shakaia's case.

Speaker 8 (13:18):
So if you remember, we spoke with Darla and as
a reminder, Darla's daughter was assaulted by Rico, and that's
why he's currently in Yellowstone County Jail. He's facing charges
for that assault. He has not been convicted. Well, Darla
has become like a grassroots activists locally in Billings and
she really wants to help fight Shakaya.

Speaker 6 (13:38):
Darla made some unbelievable discoveries about Rico and the people
likely behind Shakaia's disappearance, so.

Speaker 8 (13:45):
We connect with her once again.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
I went to the crisis center here in town.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
There's crisis centers, and one of the security guards that
works there, it said that he knows exactly who Rico is.
One of the ladies knew who Rico was to and
Rico would just hang out. He did the same thing
at Tumbleweed until he was kicked out. Yes, he would
go and wait outside of these types of.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Places to look for girls.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Security guards said that the girl that had been there,
and he wouldn't identify to me who she was, but
he said Rico taken off with the girl. They went
to Great Falls and the girl never came back, but
Rico did.

Speaker 8 (14:16):
Oh, he said Great Falls specifically.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yes, And I've heard from other people that Rico or
this particular circuit runs women from here to Great Falls,
down to Phoenix into San Diego and then across the
border if they live that long.

Speaker 8 (14:32):
Oh shit, so we have a sighting of Chakaya in
Great Falls. I mean, if what we suspect is true,
then he's a very small piece in the much bigger puzzle, right, Yes, And.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I've heard that there's people above Rico. He's not top dog.
He didn't live in a really fancy apartment or drive
a nice car. I think most of what he did
was low level.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
So anyway, as time goes on, I start going out
into the public and asking people about Rico. Lots of
people know who Rico is. No one wants to talk
about Rico. One we'll talk about Rico. Law enforcement told
me to be very very careful because he or his
people could come after me or my kids. You know,
I think that's white targeted my daughter.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
He didn't. He thought she was like every other runaway.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
I thought she was vulnerable, right, and her parents wouldn't care,
you know, they wouldn't look and they wouldn't do anything.
And I'm not that person. What do you mess with
the wrong mom? Cammy's no different from me, like she's
her culture is a little different you know, but I
want to understand it. There are people like me. There's
groups of people like me who do care, who do
want to see this change, not just for their culture,

(15:34):
but everybody, all women to be treated equally, all of us,
every no matter what. The thing that really pissed me off, though,
was the difference between how they treated and a white
girl and how they treated Shakaia. I don't get paid
for this, but yet I spend so many hours of
my day, like I just hyper focused on I'm going
to find everything I can about Rico. As soon as

(15:57):
I realized that, like I mean, I was gonna fight
for my daughter, but I was going to fight even
harder when I found out that, you know, there's a
mother whose daughter was last seen with the same man that.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Hurt my baby. I almost feel like Shikaia is my
child too in a way, you know, like I'm fighting
for her.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I want Tammy to be there, to be able to
see that some sort of justice has been done. It
may not have been for Shakaia, wish it was. I
would do anything for it to be for Shakaya. I
wish that every day, but at least I can do this.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
I was loud about it. I'm not going to shut up.

Speaker 8 (16:33):
Hi, Shawnee, Hello, how are you darling?

Speaker 4 (16:37):
Good?

Speaker 3 (16:37):
How about you? Guys? All right?

Speaker 8 (16:39):
Doing pretty good? Trying to get everything kind of tied
up to get this out there to the public. So
we wanted to get some new posters made for social
media Instagram, tiktoks, you know that kind of stuff, Twitter, Facebook,
and then also printable if we wanted to hang poster
her somewhere. And so we had that done and I

(17:01):
spent all weekend creating four new posters. So I said,
I emailed them to you. I don't know if you
can open them up while we're on the phone.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, I can. Okay, there it is okay.

Speaker 8 (17:13):
Wow, she looks like your mom. Doesn't she look like
your mom?

Speaker 5 (17:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (17:18):
And I saw it. I was like, ash, she looks
like Tammy. So Shawnee, just so you know, we talked
to Darla. Do you know who Darla is? Darla Oh,
Darla May Watkins. Yeah, we talked to her last week
and she gave us a bunch of information on on
Rico and like, you know, what happened to her daughter
and how that all worked out, and how there was

(17:39):
like a middleman which we think is in your in
Chicaya's case, we think is Romelo Big Day, And it
was like the same kind of situation, right, and then
she gave us a bunch of names to look into,
so we're looking at those. So while they're doing the
production for the podcast and all that, that's fine, John
and I are still going to be looking for Chicaya,
just so you know, we're not giving up just because

(17:59):
the podcast is done and you have you have my
contact info in my email if you ever, you know,
want to reach out with any new information or whatever.
But we're still looking at like YouTube videos of people
that there's like a couple of content creators that interview
like street kids kind of thing in different cities, and
we're watching through those to see if she pops up,

(18:20):
you know, because we don't know, we don't know what
our situation is. We don't know if she's maybe homeless
or if she's you know, living some in like a
an apartment with you know, six other girls. We have
no idea, so we're we're we're watching for her on
social media, We're watching for her on you know, all
those YouTube channels and stuff. And then we're also looking
into a bunch of names that your mom gave us,

(18:42):
which we found a couple of connections, and then with
Darla too, so we're still well, we're still on the hunt. Basically,
I just wanted to let you know, you know, kind
of what we've been up to and that we haven't
given up. Even though we haven't talked in a while,
we haven't given up.

Speaker 5 (18:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (18:56):
Is there is there anything new that we need to
know about or anything you can share with us, Sonny, but.

Speaker 8 (19:05):
Case, yeah, Rico's case. We talked to Darla about that.
I guess it got moved, yeah, and she told us yeah,
it got yeah.

Speaker 13 (19:12):
So it keeps getting pushed back, and then they're a
thing that he might get a sea deal.

Speaker 8 (19:18):
I mean, he might not know where Shakaia is at
this moment, but I think he knows where she went
because I think he took her there.

Speaker 5 (19:24):
Yeah, who do I There's not a doubt in my mind.
So I'm just having a hard time with it all
because they offered him the pay deal and there's possibly
reducing his bun and but there's not a down in
my mind, Deanna that he knows where she wins.

Speaker 8 (19:39):
I agree, Tammy, Yep, not a down in my mind
that they all know, not a doubt. We still have
so much to do. That's why we're not giving up.
We're not Just because we're not recording the podcast doesn't
mean we're going to give up. And you guys can
of course email me whatever anything you have at any time.

Speaker 4 (19:54):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
I appreciate you guys so so much.

Speaker 6 (20:00):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment.

Speaker 8 (20:14):
So as we keep digging into Charicaia's disappearance, yet another
bombshell in Jared's case drops. So Henry Tennen, we know,
was arrested, right, and he was arrested for the murder
of Jared Bardian. Then there was a press conference and
they said we're not going to be releasing the affidavit

(20:36):
for thirty days, and we all assumed that it was
because they didn't want to play their hand publicly. Right
because as soon as the arrest the probable cause of
David is released, we can read it and know how
they linked Jared's murder to Henry. Right, and we learned
that Henry rented a house from Mario right.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Correct.

Speaker 6 (21:00):
Mario had a business where he owned rental properties and
at one of them. Henry Tennan just happened to be
one of his.

Speaker 8 (21:08):
Tenants, right, And then on February thirteenth, Henry Tennan pled
not guilty to all four counts, so we were like, okay,
well that's interesting. On March sixteenth, Henry changes his plea
to guilty. So at that moment, you know he's cooperating.
You know he's cooperating, right if he pleads guilty, they're

(21:31):
offering him a deal for information. The same day, Mario
Enrique Fernandez Seldana is arrested.

Speaker 13 (21:38):
Mario Fernandez Seldana is charged in the twenty twenty two
shooting death of Bride Again. The suspect is married to
Bridigan's ex wife, Shauna Gardner Fernandez.

Speaker 8 (21:49):
So Mario has been arrested for the murder of Jared Bridigan,
Shana's husband, and Shana is the ex wife of Jared.
So Shana and Mario are the two that we've kind
of been looking at this whole time.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
And I think it should also be highlighted that what
we've heard is Shana and Mario had separated. In January
of this year. She relocated with the kids all across
the country to Washington, Mario stayed behind in Florida and
was living with his brother for a while. The house
that they were living at was listed for sale, was unlisted,

(22:23):
but recently was listed again. So it appears Shana was
trying to distance herself from Mario and by distance, moved
all the way to the other side of the United States.

Speaker 8 (22:34):
I wonder if that was by design, though, Like I know,
I know that people say that the separation was sort
of planned prior to the murder of Jerry Broad Again,
but it just seems awfully convenient, right, correct? Was a
separation for appearances? Like, look, I'm not even with him.

Speaker 6 (22:52):
If you're going to arrest him, that's got nothing to do.

Speaker 8 (22:54):
With me, right, that's all on him.

Speaker 6 (22:56):
I don't know, So I guess the question is was
more Mario's lawyer appointed to him by the courts or
did he hire a lawyer?

Speaker 8 (23:04):
No? I looked him up. So Mario's attorney and he's
like a really respected, like criminal trial attorney in Jacksonville Beach.
So in my mind that costs some money.

Speaker 6 (23:15):
Do you think because it's a high profile case, he
took it pro bono?

Speaker 8 (23:19):
No?

Speaker 6 (23:19):
I do not, So who do you think is paying
the attorney bill.

Speaker 8 (23:23):
I'm wondering if there's some sort of Chad Day bill
in Idaho is paying for his attorney through like the
sale of his properties and they're doing like a lean
kind of situation. I wonder if the properties that Mario owns,
if there's some sort of negotiation.

Speaker 6 (23:37):
There put him up as collateral.

Speaker 8 (23:39):
Yeah, or either that or they're still married like happily
and you know the gardeners are taking care of it.
I doubt that. But and the lawyer that Mario has
for his criminal defense, his name is not Henry Zox.

Speaker 6 (23:54):
It's Jason Nolan Dracer.

Speaker 8 (23:55):
Jason, Yeah, it's Jesse Nolan Dracer.

Speaker 6 (23:57):
Oh, Jesse.

Speaker 8 (23:58):
So he's already filed like a motion for discovery, Like
he is like on it right now, like he's going,
He's like, I want to know what you've got. So
he filed the motion of discovery, he filed emotion for
a bill of particulars, and filed his notice of appearance
with the court already and he did that today, correct.
So that's what's going on. But there's also other news
that Shana front right.

Speaker 6 (24:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (24:20):
On Reddit, there's like a lot of discussion about the children.
There's a lot of discussion about the theory that Shana
has given custody of her children, which are also Jared's children,
to her parents, the Gardener's, and there's like a supposed
family friend or somebody who's close with the family who
has been spilling sort of these anonymous secrets. I don't

(24:43):
know how credible they are. I have no idea who
they are. I haven't even tried to look into it,
but they are saying that Shana has given custody of
the kids, and you know, family court is all sealed,
you're not going to be able to get anything, so
we can't like look this up to verify it. But
apparently the grandparents have custody of the twins. I would
imagine that that would be an issue, especially with the

(25:06):
young boy having the health issues and being in Utah.
So I don't know if if it's true. Did you
know Shelley Gardner go to Washington to take care of them?
I don't know, but the talk on Reddit that's been
discussing this quite a bit has been that Shelley is
in Washington and then their company is getting like blasted

(25:28):
all over social media.

Speaker 6 (25:30):
And that's the one thing we do know the family
owned company, released an email to their employees and staff
talking about kind of saying we know nothing about this.

Speaker 8 (25:40):
You know. And it's interesting how that the letter is worded.

Speaker 7 (25:44):
Right.

Speaker 8 (25:44):
They didn't say he was arrested for the murder of
Shane's ex husband. They worded it like he was involved
in like some white collar crime. So I'm going to
read it real quick, Okay. Stamping Up is aware that
Mario Fernandez, Shana Gardner's current husband, has been a rest
in conjunction with an ongoing investigation. Shana, Shelley and Sterling's daughter,

(26:06):
and Mario have been separated for an extended period of time.
We have no further details about the situation other than
what has been reported by the media. We understand that
some demonstrators now they call their employees demonstrators. It's important
to know that it's not like picketers, like people aren't protesting.
We understand that some demonstrators have received troubling comments about
this matter on their social media platforms. Please feel free

(26:29):
to delete those comments of an inappropriate nature and block
slash report those commenters on your personal accounts. You may
also share this email with your teams if needed. Stamping
Up's long standing commitment to you and all of our
demonstrators is unwavering. Thank you for concern and continue to support, Sincerely,
stamping Up. So, they neglected to mention that he was

(26:50):
arrested for the murder of Shane's ex husband. They just said, oh,
he's been arrested. It's just an ongoing and investor. You know,
it's probably some white collar card. I mean, that's what
it sounds like, like he was doing something fraudulent banking
or something. They make sure to mention specifically, Shana and
Mario have been separated for an extended period of time.
What they failed to mention is that they were very

(27:12):
much together when Jared was murdered. And so that letter
spurned off the Jared Bright Again or the Justice for
Jared by Instagram account man oh Man. I was like
cheering it on the other night. It was just going
wild with amazing memes and you know and thinking, now, listen,

(27:33):
I'm not here to judge how anybody grieves, you know
what I mean, Like when my mom died, I I
cracked jokes, you know what I mean, Like, you can't
sit there and judge how anybody grieves or how somebody
celebrates like justice and the Justice for Jared by Instagram
account was on fire that night. I mean, they were
just making the greatest memes and also like really neat

(27:55):
stories about how Kirsten and Jared met and like, you know,
Jared just wasn't murdered. Their entire family was murdered, you
know what I mean, like he was there, the entire center. Anyway,
it was it was fantastic to see that on social media.
But anyway, Yeah, there was a big uproar was stamping
up and I listen, I don't think they're gonna go

(28:16):
out of busess or anything like that. But it is
interesting that in the state of Utah there's only been
one news article written about this, and it was only
a couple of days ago. The power that these people
have in the state of Utah is quite scary. It's
quite scary. And Shelley just got elected to some big
hoody hoity toity thing in the church, so that makes

(28:36):
it even more frightening. So that's the update that I have,
which was a lot, I think.

Speaker 6 (28:44):
So imagine your Jared's two kids. One of them is
in the car that he had with Kirston, but the
two kids he had with Shana. They're finding out that
the man their mother married after she left Jared is
now responsible for the death of their father. That's gotta
be a difficult conversation you have with those kids.

Speaker 8 (29:07):
There really is no press about this in Utah, like none.
It's been a big controversy. So I don't know what
they're being told. They might not even know. I hope
they don't know. I mean, I really do. We don't
know what they're being told. But if they are being
told what's going on, I can't imagine what they're going through.
I honestly can't imagine. And you know, with the Markel

(29:28):
Act in Florida being passed, it would be very interesting
to know what's going to end up happening if Shana
is charged.

Speaker 6 (29:36):
So we touched on this in one of our previous
conversations with Kirsten about is Jared's parents still alive and
do they have access to the kids, And right now
they don't. But if Shana was somehow implicated in all
this and proven that she had some was guilty of
what happened to Jared, then the Mercle Act could go
into effect and then Jared's parents would be able to, then,

(29:59):
I think, go to court and ask for access to
their grandchere children and be able to see them again.

Speaker 8 (30:04):
Not only that they could access for custody, they could
ask for custody and get it.

Speaker 6 (30:10):
So do you think the Gardeners are going to try
and fight that in court considering what we know happened
to the child custody?

Speaker 8 (30:16):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that's gonna work.
I don't know. You know, I see a lot of
people saying what a wonderful woman Shelley is and that
she really does have a lot of a big heart,
but that she's blind when it comes to Shana. So
maybe in her defense, you know, I just got to
play devil's advocate. She doesn't know. She does believe Shane

(30:38):
is an ascent and doesn't have anything to do with this,
and Shane is a victim too, and so anyway, that's
the update, and it's a big update.

Speaker 6 (30:47):
The good thing is is that arrest are being made. Obviously,
the case is moving forward, and it looks like there
will finally be some gusted for Jared and his family
members and his kids. That's that I mean. We were
talking about how this has been going on for almost
a year and then almost to the date to announce
the arrest of Henry Tanyans.

Speaker 8 (31:06):
But I think it's I think it's telling because sometimes
you can tell things by what the court doesn't do, right,
Like they haven't released the probable cause euvidata yet. Why
would that be because they're still instigation. They're still looking
at Shana one hundred percent, like I guarantee they are
still they need to talk to Mario right and see

(31:29):
what he decides to turn over right correct, see what
he starts to say. And it took a month. It
took a month for Henry Tennant to do it, you know,
to say, Okay, fine, I'll plead guilty and I'll give
you all this information. So it's it's going to be
interesting to see now. You know. There's a lot of
there's a lot of talk about can't testify against your what? Yes,
you can, it's an option. Okay, let's get that. Let's

(31:52):
make that clear. It's an option. You don't have to,
but you absolutely can. You know what I mean. People
are like, no, it's his wife, he can't test Yes
he can, Yes, he fucking can.

Speaker 6 (32:02):
Big update.

Speaker 8 (32:03):
I just think it's interesting sometimes, look at what's been redacted?

Speaker 6 (32:06):
Right, yeah?

Speaker 8 (32:07):
Why did they redact this? And why did they redact?
You can you know what it says? Why did they?
So sometimes you can read between the lines, and with
them not releasing the PCA or the probable cause abbidavit,
we know they're still building the case against somebody else.
So I think we are both surprised and not surprised
that Mario's been arrested, right.

Speaker 6 (32:28):
Yeah, I think we all saw the connection, and we've
always suspected Henry Tennon probably didn't act alone, and given
Mario now that we know he was Henry's landlord, there's
the clear connection right there.

Speaker 8 (32:40):
But there's another question, right, does this in any way
connect to Shana? And you know Kirsten has always suspected
Mario's involvement, so what is she thinking?

Speaker 6 (32:50):
I think we should talk with her.

Speaker 8 (32:51):
I think we have to talk to her.

Speaker 6 (32:56):
Hey, Kirsten, I guess this is that moment to kind
of hear how you're feel and what you're thinking. And
I'm sure it's a lot you've been going through, So
if you don't mind, can you kind of share how
things have been going with you and what you think
about the arrest? Of Mario and what you think will
happen next.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah, Honestly, when Henry Tennen was arrested and I was
able to see his photo, it was such a weird,
weird thing to process because here you see this photo
of someone that you know, according to law enforcement, was
the one that ended your husband's life, and you've never
seen him before in your life, and you know your
husband had never seen him until the day he died.

(33:34):
And what made it even more strange to me is
that I didn't hate him. Like when I saw his photo,
what I thought I would just be filled with like
anger and hate, And yeah, there was a little bit
of anger, but I also just like felt some pity almost.
I don't know if that's the right way to describe it,
but you know, looking at the photo that I was
provided of him and hearing a little bit about his background,

(33:57):
I'm just like, what got him to a point in
his life life where he would agree to end the
life of someone he didn't know. And so I'm very
grateful that despite all the wrong he has done to us,
he decided to do something right and confess and agree
to testify against co conspirators. And then that's how we

(34:19):
got to Mario Mario's arrest. Mario's a different story. You know,
my feelings for Mario. I have no pity for him.
He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew who
Jared was, He knew that Jared was a father, that
he would be leaving children, multiple children, including two that
lived with Mario and Shanna without Jared. That he would

(34:44):
be leaving a six month old and a two year
old without a father for their entire lives. So my
feelings towards Henry and towards Mario were very different, despite
them both being involved in Jared's murder. It was just
kind of a took me by surprise.

Speaker 8 (34:58):
Well, I think that's there's a lot of grace on
your part. I mean, you definitely walk the walk Kriston
with your faith and when I find that very commendable.
And I don't know that I would have shown the
same amount of grace to Henry, but I definitely understand it.
The fact that he is cooperating, you know, and is
able to turn over hopefully you know, evidence that can

(35:19):
help convict Mario in the murder of Jared, because you know,
you're right, he did know that Jared was, you know,
part of a very loving family, four beautiful children. He
knew all that. So hopefully, hopefully anything that Henry can
do to help that, I'm sure you're grateful for.

Speaker 6 (35:34):
If you don't mind, I'm going to go back a
little bit. So the first opportunity we had to speak
with you, you kind of walked us through the day of
the incident and how you had gotten a phone call
from the Jacksonville Police and you had this gut feeling
you knew what happened. Eleven months later, Jacksonville police arrest
Henry Tenon State Attorney General chargism with the murder of Jared.

(35:57):
A few months later, Mario gets arrested. Here we are, Now,
what's your gut feeling telling you?

Speaker 12 (36:02):
Now?

Speaker 4 (36:04):
This one I'm struggling with. I felt pretty certain about
what Henry would do, which is why I addressed part
of my remarks to him and his family Mario. I
don't have as clear feelings on Mario's in my experience.
Mario's a very prideful person, and I don't know if
his pride will allow him to plea guilty or if

(36:29):
he will want a trial and he will be convinced
that he can make twelve jurors believe him.

Speaker 6 (36:36):
Need to convince twelve, he needs to convince one.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
Yeah, exactly, So that's even easier for him. You know,
we have to convince twelve. He only convinced one. But
at the same time, hypothetically, if someone that he was
involved with was the real brains behind the operation and
has left him out to dry, would his pride care
more about bringing that person down than about continuing the

(37:00):
pain for me and my family. Right, I'm not sure.
I don't know which way we'll go.

Speaker 8 (37:04):
I wondered when the state was saying they were going
to do the death penalty. I thought, Okay, well, maybe
this will be the push for him to, you know,
start talking, and maybe that's why you know, this is
this is happening in the way it's happening. I'm just
surprised it hasn't happened yet. I honestly, I'm surprised. And
maybe it is and I don't know about it, and
that's fine, But I am surprised that he because I

(37:25):
do believe, just in like reading about him and his
narcissism and you know whatnot, that that he would try
to save himself literally try to save himself and throw
her under the bus with evidence, obviously, but it hasn't
happened yet as far as I know.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Yeah, and so when we're at the recent court hearing
where they filed the death notice, he even walked in
kind of seeming like he was cocky, like you can't
a little strut, and then he did this like half
smile smirk at his newest attorney, And part of me
just wonders, has it sunk in yet? Like do you
realize that there's a high chance you will be put

(38:01):
to death for what you've done? And are you willing
to go that far to protect someone that you are
no longer involved with. I wouldn't if I were in
his shoes, Like, I don't know, but part of me
wonders if it's even sunk in yet.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
Yeah. So, just so everybody's aware, Shanna took the twins
and moved across country. Mario stayed behind in Florida, and
it doesn't appear that they're still together. There was rumors
that they may be divorcing. We don't know, but it
seems very odd that she would leave him go across country.

(38:40):
He stays there. Now he's arrested, he's been charger's first
degree murder, so therefore the death penalty applies. So how
far is he willing to go with this before he
decides I better, in order to save myself and get
a life sentence with maybe a possibility a prol twenty
five thirty years, I need to start cooperating.

Speaker 12 (38:58):
That.

Speaker 6 (38:59):
That's basically where we're at right now. We're all waiting
for to hear that Mario is now cooperating and he's
turning over information that implicates a third person. So, I mean,
it's got to be very worrisome on your part. Why,
like Deanna is saying, why hasn't he done it yet?

Speaker 8 (39:13):
Obviously we've been keeping up to date on what's been
going on, even though we haven't really been talking and whatnot,
but we've been keeping up to date. And of course
I follow the Instagram and the tiktoks and all that.
And I noticed that a big part of this was
this new judge that got assigned.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Right, Yes, we finally have a judge.

Speaker 8 (39:30):
Yeah, and she seems like a great judge. Through everything
that you've been through, do you have faith in the
justice system working the way it should? And I know
there's still possibly real quick. I know there's possibly still
an outlier, right that we don't know what's going to
happen there. Yeah, but do do you feel with this judge?

(39:50):
And I looked her up and I saw the post
that you had made about her and how wonderful she
seems to be. It's a good thing, but still, well,
the justice system has to do what the justice system
has to do. Do you have faith in that coming
to fruition?

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, that's honestly something I kind of go back and
forth on. On one hand, I feel like there is
justice being done so far, and hopefully it's not just
an arrest, it's a conviction and a sentencing whatever that
may be, and that not only falls on the judge
but ultimately a jury. So there's gonna be twelve strangers
that I've never met, who never knew Jared, never knew more,

(40:27):
who never knew Henry, and justice is going to be
in their hands as well. And that's a little it
makes my stomach suring because you just don't know, you
don't know what people are going to think about the evidence.

Speaker 8 (40:38):
Or right, how a jury's going to take it right.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
Yeah, So that is a little bit scary for me. Honestly,
thinking about sitting through a trial, that part I don't
think is justice, you know, like that just traumatizes the
victim's family more, which is one reason I'm also grateful
that Henry decided to please rather than put us through
a trial. So that's one trial saved and hopefully, you know,

(41:02):
who knows what other people will do, right, So I
feel like justice is happening. But honestly, if it was
true justice, and this is where you know, obviously things
are set up in place to prevent any people from
being punished, but if it was true justice, we wouldn't
have to go through all of these hearings, all of

(41:22):
these court dates of oh we're not gonna set a trial, now,
we're gonna bump it another thirty days. Oh we're gonna
bump it another forty days and draw it out. It
just it doesn't allow that wound to fully close. Whereas
you know, like back in the olden days.

Speaker 8 (41:36):
The guilty or just right, it happened very quickly, right.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
Yeh, Which I get why we've put systems in place
to protect people who are wrongfully arrested. But in this case,
where everything in my being knows who did it, it
seems a little injust that we have to.

Speaker 8 (41:52):
Go through all the hoops, right right, I totally understand that.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Yeah, mixed emotions on on that.

Speaker 6 (42:00):
Well, let's see, you got the gunman who is willing
to testify. You have the new or the ex husband
or the husband the second husband who might be willing
to testify. I don't see that case going to trial.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
I think a truly narcissistic person who has unlimited funds
would take trial.

Speaker 8 (42:18):
I did too. In fact, I think that somebody that's
truly narcissistic would believe that they really haven't done anything
wrong and that they have the power to do that.
I mean, anybody who kills somebody is a little bit
of a narcissist. Let's be honest. I mean, you're you're
acting as God at that point. You have the power
to take somebody's life. So, I mean, we can sit

(42:38):
here and say there won't be a trial, but I
mean it happens all the time the narcissist, So I
don't know.

Speaker 6 (42:44):
It's a dependent upon the state to prove a person guilty.
So everybody has a legal right to have a fair trial.
So yeah, you're probably more than likely one of these
will go.

Speaker 8 (42:53):
Is everybody doing okay in the family, because Jared's family too,
like his how is his brother and you know Adam,
And is everybody doing okay?

Speaker 4 (43:02):
I think we all have ups and downs. Like I
talk to Adam the most. He and I are probably
the most involved in Jared's case and keeping things updated.
Then he loops and everybody else on his side. But
he and I definitely do have hard days. And thankfully
it seems like when he's having a really downer time,
I'm okay, and when I'm having a super downer time,

(43:24):
He's okay. So we're able to help each other through it.
His wife I talk to a lot, you know, she
tells me how Adam's doing. I vent to her, cry
to her. You know, I have my brothers that I've
cried to. So it's hard, but we're pushing through.

Speaker 8 (43:40):
Good's that's good. Where do you think all this is
going to go?

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Do?

Speaker 8 (43:43):
You obviously are going to implicate people who are innocent
or whatever, But where do you think all this is going?
Every day I check Washington, you know, and what's going
on there, and you know, a lot of it is
all rumor and speculation and stuff like that. So you know,
I know there's things that you probably can't say, and
please don't feel any pressure to do so, But what
do you think is gonna happen? Like, where do you

(44:04):
think all this is going? I still can't imagine, I'm
going to say it. I still cannot imagine that she
didn't know about this, And I also still can't imagine
that any money that was paid to Henry was done
so without her knowing about it, just her personality type.
I just know that she had the purse strings right,

(44:25):
So I just it's frustrating for me as an outsider,
I can't imagine, and I never want to be in
your position, but I just can't imagine the frustration that
you're dealing with it because it's like everybody knows. Everybody knows.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Yeah, it's it's honestly frustrating knowing that you know, as
they say, it's an open investigation, so we know that
it's not fun with Henry and Mario. It is frustrating
trying to be patient. But though you look at other
cases and having two people behind bar within I think

(45:01):
thirteen or fourteen months, it's actually pretty remarkable. So I
am grateful that according to usual crime timelines, we are
pretty quick, but does it feel quick when you're you're
the family that's been hurt and are waiting for justice
to be done. It feels like an eternity. So where

(45:21):
I think it's going, I think, well, Henry's kind of
wrapped up, so he's in jail until sentencing. Mario as
of now is intending to go to trial, which likely
will not take place until at least next spring at
the earliest, and then it's still an open investigation. So
I would assume that there will be another arrest at

(45:43):
some point and then who knows how long until that
trial takes place.

Speaker 6 (45:54):
Have you guys had any contact with Shanna or any
discussions about the kid or being the twins and being
able to see them or have any access to them
at all.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
So I have not seen or spoken to Liam and
Abbey since April of twenty twenty two, so it's been
over a year. I have asked for visitations via FaceTime
now that they are no longer here regularly. It was
multiple times a month, then I took it down to
once a month because I was just getting no response.
I've asked Shanna until she blocked my phone number. I

(46:26):
was texting her. Then I started emailing her and her attorney.
No response except an accident or reply from her attorney
that was supposed to be to her that just basically
said I don't think you need to respond. And I
also have texted her dad, Sterling Gardner because I had
his phone number, asking for help just allowing the kids
to talk, and he has also ignored me, thankfully. Jared's

(46:50):
sister Ashley contacted Shanna. I gave her her phone number
at the end of last year and asked to be
able to contact them. Shanna did allow her to have
a face time with them, so she was able to
talk to them, and then just recently Jared's parents. They
had reached out to Shanna's attorney last summer asking to

(47:10):
talk to the twins before he went through cancer treatments
and was ignored, but they reached out again in April
asking if they could talk to them for their birthday,
and Shelly, Shanna's mother, actually facilitated a call with them
and the twins for fifteen minutes. She limited it fifteen
minutes and kind of said some boundaries on things they

(47:32):
couldn't say, so she couldn't tell them about they couldn't
tell them about me and the girls, or mentioned Jared,
nothing of that nature. Just keep it. What are you
guys up to? And that's all the contact that I
am aware of that has been allowed.

Speaker 8 (47:48):
Let's stop here for another quick break. Every single time
we spoke to Kirsten, we have been struck by her grace,
her determination, and her resilience.

Speaker 6 (48:09):
She's turned this awful tragedy in her life, the murder
of her husband, into something positive and it's giving back
to the community by creating the Bexley Box initiative.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
So we started the Britdigan Foundation in order to further
spread our Bexley Box initiative. The Bexley Box started just
as an idea that I had after reflecting back on
Bexley's experience at the Jacksonville Beach Police Department. They did
their best with what they had, but they really didn't
have essentials for kids that were there for hours. You know,

(48:45):
she didn't have a correct sized diaper, no sippy cup,
very limited toys to keep her entertained for the amount
of time she was there, and nothing comforting like, you know,
a stuffed animal or a blanket. So the Bexley Box
is a refillable resource that we provide to law enforcement
agencies that contains those essentials, so premixed formula, bottles, allergy

(49:08):
friendly snacks, blankets, coloring supplies, anti anxiety relieving toys, lots
of things that we worked with people in the community
to compile that would be beneficial to kids. We have
place twenty four of these boxes to date, and we
have a whole list of agencies to go that have

(49:31):
already asked for them, and we're gonna be working our
way down. But we are always looking for people who
either want to help us place one in their local
law enforcement agency if they have connections there, or donations
that go to help us build and deliver these boxes.

Speaker 8 (49:48):
I love that the thought of a child sitting in
the police station without any comfort is upsetting.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Honestly, that was like one of those things that just
ate at me. In addition to like people didn't know
who it was, and like Bexley's experience could have been better,
Like she went through the worst, it could have been
better for her right after that and no fall of
the officers, but right right and now, when I've met
with you know, sheriffs or police chiefs or victims advocates.

(50:19):
They said, we hadn't even thought about this, Like, this
isn't something we think about as officers. It takes a
parent to be like, my child would need this. Yeah.
And that's one of the really beautiful things that came
out of the instagram is when I shared that idea,
the outpouring of support was amazing. Boxes just kept showing
up at my house. Mostly mothers were messaging me with

(50:41):
have you thought of this? One of them suggested the formula.
I didn't formula feed my kids. That wasn't even in
my brain. I was like, you know what, that's a
great idea. Another one had seen the snacks that we
were putting in and said, what about you know, allergy
sensitive children. I was like, we should just make them
all allergy friendly as much as we can, you know,
like gluten free, peanut free. So it was just a

(51:03):
beautiful thing that came out of the social media of
people coming together to make an idea even better for
children who might find themselves in that situation.

Speaker 8 (51:14):
I mean, I hate to even say this, but it's
kind of like the blessing in disguise right with her experience,
that her legacy will be helping other children that are
going through something traumatic be just find a tiny bit
of comfort. And I think that I think that's really special,
and I hope that it's successful and it's spread throughout

(51:34):
the whole country. I mean, kids don't deserve any of this.
Well yeah, and you certainly don't. And and I'm not
putting you on a penesilal or whatever, but I every
time I talk about this case with like my friends
in real life or you know, people who I'm work
with or whatever, I always say, you, guys don't understand
miss Bride Again. She is a force. She is a force.

(51:56):
And I will say too, you have been the stamp
of care for your family in dealing with a traumatic event.
You have been relentless in the pursuit of justice for
your family. And I'm so proud of you. And I
know Jared is too. Like I didn't know Jared, clearly

(52:16):
I didn't, but I feel like I did through you,
and I know he is just so proud of you.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Thank you means a lot, honestly.

Speaker 6 (52:25):
True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Deanna Thompson,
Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnaut, and me John Green,
additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile, Editing by
Jeff Twi, music by vanikor Music.

Speaker 8 (52:41):
True Crimes is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, please visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.