October 25, 2023 • 25 mins
New details arise about Shacaiahs disappearance. John and Deanna reach out to an indigenous activist lawyer.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
in the basement.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Somebody told you that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
I'm come to find out.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
This is like it exploded into this huge thing.
Speaker 5 (00:12):
I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 6 (00:14):
Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride Again was
shot dead.
Speaker 5 (00:18):
I kept calling his phone during the drive.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.
Speaker 7 (00:25):
His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
he was targeted.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
Eventually a police officer answered and told me to come
to the police station.
Speaker 8 (00:34):
Justice is something that takes different shapes or forms.
Speaker 6 (00:38):
If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
late to.
Speaker 9 (00:43):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.
Speaker 8 (00:48):
I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
animal abusers arrested.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
We spent over a year and a half trying to
get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnauta.
Speaker 8 (01:15):
Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Don't Fuck with Cats.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.
Speaker 8 (01:29):
This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Kat's Studios.
So I really want to find out more about this
mysterious white house in Billings, Montana, and how it could
be connected in some way to Shicaia's disappearance.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Right, we have that old blurry photo that the team
from Kat's Studios sent us from when they went out
to Billings in twenty nineteen. Remember they did that documentary
about missing and murdered Indigenous women for NBC Universal's Oxygen network.
Stephanie and Katie said, we need to talk to Mike Toth.
He's the private investigator they worked with in Montana.
Speaker 8 (02:05):
Yeah, hopefully Mike can shed some light on this mysterious house.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
Hi Mike, Hi, how are you doing.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I'm good, How are you good? To meet you? Virtually
I guess huh.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
You know, Stephane and them, they reached out to me
in Montana because they were looking for a PI to
give him some guidance. From then on, we just started
working on the case in this one that we're talking
about now was on our radar.
Speaker 8 (02:29):
One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you
today is last week we were provided a couple of photos.
Apparently it's in reference to some weird house where girls
are supposedly held against their will in the basement and
bad things are done to them. Are you familiar with that.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
I'm familiar with that story, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And that So do you know where that house is?
Speaker 6 (02:51):
Yeah, I'm just sitting I'm in front of her right now.
I'm just driving around Aimiously, you know, they don't know
exactly what part of it was that I didn't know
what street. So it's like, I'm gonna just do a
grid drive and sure enough when I turned the corner
and boom, there it was.
Speaker 8 (03:07):
I'm on my laptop looking at it on Google street Maps.
I see it now and so, and this is what
I told Stephanie. I think the building, it looks like
it to detach the garage to me more than anything.
So do you believe there's any validity that this house
was or this building was used to old women girls against.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Her I don't know for sure.
Speaker 8 (03:32):
It doesn't look like there's a basement, so like right
to the right to the front door, there was a
camera there, right.
Speaker 6 (03:39):
It looks like there used to be one. But I
remember when we were here four years ago there was cameras.
I remember there was cameras all around the house, and
now there isn't And to me it doesn't look like
anybody did. Those cars aren't there anymore now. The lawn
is mode es freshly mode compared to everybody else's, so
(04:03):
they would just be watching it, I guess, to see
if somebody's coming and going or checking on it. Yeah,
but right now, if I was a guest, I'd say,
no one's living there.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
So our private investigator, Mike Talk says no one is
living there, and the house looks very different than it
did several years ago.
Speaker 8 (04:25):
Yeah, which might mean if it was used as a
trafficking house, and for all intentsive purposes, that's a big gift,
they've probably moved on, which makes a lot of sense.
Human traffickers don't hang out in one spot. They tend
to move around.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
A lot, right, But maybe there's some information about the
past tenants or the owners that we can find out. John,
go go do your thing and let me know what
you find out.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
KT Studio sends the photos.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Unfortunately they didn't have the exact address because it was
three years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I went online on Google and try to fin I
found the park that. This is the weird part. I
found a park that matches one of the photos they
sent that KT Studio sentest and that's the park. The
detective said. Jakia left Tumbleweed to.
Speaker 10 (05:13):
Go meet somebody out.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
This house is literally three blocks less than half a
mile from South Park. He went down, He went Yeah,
he went down and drove around the neighborhood and found
the building again. He called me. He was sitting across
the street from the building. He actually sent me a photo.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You sent me a link on Discord this morning of maps. Right, yes,
and so I'm looking at it right now, okay, yep,
And I'm looking at South Park, which is the place
that the private investigator said that she was walking to.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Right and just just to the like ten o'clock, a
little bit over from the park, there's another red dot.
Speaker 10 (05:54):
Yes, that's the building.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Oh, that's the that's the house. Okay, okay, that is
very close.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
See now I'm starting to think maybe there's some significance.
So after talking to the PI, I started thinking, okay,
let's find out who owns this building. So I went,
you know, on Google street Maps, it gives it a
street number. I'm not going to name it right now,
you don't know, but it actually gives it a street number.
So I just went on a real estate site zillow
(06:22):
dot com and typed it in. It said that address
doesn't exist, and I thought that's strange. So I said, well,
I'm gonna see if buildings Montana has like an assessor
parcel map, and so they do. They have a planning
map and an assessor's property map. I went in type
that address. It doesn't come up. But what happens is
(06:44):
the address of the building next to it comes up,
and when you're looking at the parcel map, it includes
that house next to it.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
So it's the same property, two different buildings.
Speaker 10 (06:55):
Yes, is that right?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So same property, two different buildings.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, yes, looking at it, you would think maybe there's
separate buildings. It shows who owns the building next to
it that you can find it shows it it's an
LLC company to a person who lives in another state.
So it was just kind of.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Why would an LLC own that little barn looking thing.
It looks like a little white barn.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
At first, I thought this white building had nothing of
any significance. But then the more I keep digging in,
the more.
Speaker 10 (07:27):
Weirder it gets.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So I don't know yet. We don't know this, but
it is close to the park, so.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
We need to It is very close to that part, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So we need to ask. Hopefully we can speak to
ja Kaia's sister Sony again and ask.
Speaker 10 (07:42):
Her if she's if she's heard.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
This story about Shikaia leaving tumble Wee.
Speaker 11 (07:49):
To go walk to a park to meet somebody.
Speaker 6 (07:52):
It matches.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
But here's the difference. In twenty and nineteen, when they
found this house, they said there were cameras all over it.
He said, now, there doesn't beat any cameras on this house, okay.
And when I looked up the property tax information, up
until twenty and seventeen, it was owned by one corporation,
but in twenty and eighteen till now it switched to
(08:14):
a different corporation. Really ownership could have changed in twenty
and eighteen, which is at the same time that Jakaia
went missing. Now, maybe we're just this has nothing to
do with our disappearance. But the more we look at
this building, this white building, the more weirder it gets,
I guess. So that's just one more thing we need
(08:34):
to run down.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I've been trying to learn about human trafficking since we
talked to Sunny, and that's what they'll do. They'll rent
properties for like six months at a time and move constantly,
you know. So it's like they have like a like
a house, like a like a not a safe house,
because it's clearly not a safe house, but they'll have
(08:56):
a base, right yeah, and then leave a six months.
So it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort
of you know, stash house for these girls.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, here's the one thing in both versions of the story,
there's one common alley, and that's Tumbleweed.
Speaker 8 (09:15):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
We need to talk to Shakaia's sister, Shawnee more about
the day Shakaia disappeared.
Speaker 8 (09:33):
Yeah, now that we have a better understanding of the
area in Billings, the park and this mysterious house. Let's
talk with Shawnee.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Oh and we need to talk about the red pickup
truck that was mentioned earlier, and that's another thread we
need to pull out.
Speaker 8 (09:45):
Uh, hello, is this Shawnee? Hey, yes, Sean, no worries
one second. I have Deanna on the other line. She's
at work because she's not gonna talk much. She's just gonna.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Listen to you and I talk.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Hey, Deanna. Yeah, I have Shane on the line with us.
Talking to you last week was like, very very informative,
gave us a lot of information, and I kind of
wanted to follow up with that conversation maybe ask some
follow up questions and some more questions. If that's okay with.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
You, Yeah, that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 8 (10:18):
And how do we know there's a red truck? I'm
sorry to keep bothering with these things. We have to like,
we who saw this red truck?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
What is this?
Speaker 8 (10:26):
There's a video? We don't know what can you tell us?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Apparently there is a video of her getting onto this
red truck. And I don't know if that originated from
Detective Fritz or exactually exactly who that originated from Supposedly
there's a video of her getting onto this red truck.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I read about that.
Speaker 9 (10:44):
Your cousin's posted about that, and she said that tumblewee
couldn't read the license plate according to Yellstone Counter Share
Ups Office.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
But we don't know if that's been verified or not.
So we kind of want to talk to the cops
and see if they'll tell us anything.
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Right, So, who's Detective Fritz if you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Detective Fritz is the guy from Yellowstone County Detective's office.
He is the one who actually found her case.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Like I said, nobody gave it to him.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
He just picked it up off the desk, and he's
been the one that's been trying to He's been the
one that's been on her case for these past four years, and.
Speaker 8 (11:21):
He's still actively working it.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I don't know about how actively, but I know he
is a detective assigned and has.
Speaker 8 (11:29):
He been open to speaking with your family about Hicaya.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It kind of seems like it's on his terms, because
when we try to call or get a hold of
him or anything, we don't get it on the answer
back unless he calls us. I don't feel very comfortable
with them handling my Sissi's.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Case at all.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
You know, I don't know exactly what happened.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I just know that she was filed.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Detective Fritz told us himself that he's the one who
found it three months later and decided to pick it
up and with it. We would try to call into
the detective's office, and if we were either told that
the Tective Fritz needs to get ahold of us, they
wouldn't really actually listen to what we had to say.
I don't even know if any of the information that
(12:13):
we told them was taken down and given to him.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (12:19):
That's the kind of feeling we have too, and we've
been through that before personally, you know, so we definitely understand,
and it's very upsetting.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I get the.
Speaker 12 (12:28):
Impression that they were kind of probably like, oh, you know,
a girl of the streets kind of thing, and on
top of that, she paid an American and you know
what I mean, Like, I just get that impression.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
That's exactly what happened. Yeah, exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
There were a few things that popped up that we
didn't understand why they weren't being looked into and I'll
text my mom just to confirm who that was, what
that was. But again, like there was two things that
we called in that we got tips on our own
and don't know if they were taken serious. And then
if we did talk to Detective Fritz we were told
(13:10):
that it needs to come from a first person, no
more the no, here's the same thing. Yeah, and which
I did I get. But at the same time, when
we're telling you who this is, they were never.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Contacted by Detective Frits.
Speaker 9 (13:29):
Yeah, and unfortunately that that time is so important, you know,
and you know that you're living in so Yeah, that's
kind of the impression that we have as well, and
we don't want to ruin this investigation. My biggest thing
right now is Rico is in jail right and he
hasn't had trial yet. He's been in prison or in
(13:50):
jail for like eighteen months, eighteen nineteen months. Are they
like putting the pressure on him to get information about
where he took Shakaya.
Speaker 8 (14:02):
You know, this whole situation where Shikaia is missing person's
case just sat on somebody's desk. It's really bothering me.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
I don't get how someone a young girl could go missing,
the family files, the police report, and nothing happens until
it's just found on someone's desk. It doesn't seem right,
especially since we know that Indigenous women disappear and are
killed at very alarming rates.
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Yeah, it feels like Shakaia's missing person case is part
of a larger issue with indigenous women in Montana.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I came across this lawyer and indigenous activists. Her name
is Mary Catherine Nagel. I think she can really help
us explain how Shakaia's case fits in the larger problem
of missing and murdered Indigenous women.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Deanna, Yeah, Mary Catherine's on the line with that.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Oh wonderful.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Hello, Hello, hello, hello.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
We are so nervous to talk to you because we
read about you today and you are a very very
impressive woman.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Oh that's very kind. Let me just tell you of
any anxiety.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I am nothing but a commoner, so there's.
Speaker 7 (15:09):
Nothing magic about it.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Oh my gosh, you're a playwright, you're a lawyer. Come on,
you're pretty impressive.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
That's that's very kind, and I am just very excited
to be connected with you two and and to hear
you know what you're in the stories, you're interested in
sharing and telling, and.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
We wanted to provide some like backstory to Shakaya. She's
our missing woman, and maybe some of the challenges that
you know that she would experience and and you know
with law enforcement and her substance abuse problem perhaps and
why that happens, and you know, like how like the
(15:55):
Violence Against Women's Act failed and how that all goes inteh,
why tribal sovereigntory is so important, right, So we wanted
to kind of talk to somebody who knew about that,
and you are like the perfect person to do that.
So I'm so grateful that you're that you're willing to
talk to us.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
So the worst that I do is trying to fight,
for instance, for these families and for the lost lives,
fighting asking law enforcement to investigate their cases. It's hard work.
There's pretty much every incentive you could think of to
not investigate the homicides of Native people in this country.
And even though we are the population most likely to
(16:38):
be murdered, for the population who's homouflage and the least
likely to be investigated, which I think is in part
why we're murdered as such, incredibly high rates. There are
just no consequences for murdering Native people. On many reservations
today and in many urban areas, you can murder a
Native person and law enforcement will not investigate.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Why.
Speaker 7 (16:57):
Why is that?
Speaker 10 (16:58):
I mean, is it just back of resources?
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Is it just.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
So?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
There are many reasons why Native women and Native people
are more likely to be murder than any other population.
One is a jurisdictional issue, and that is that, as
the Department of Justice has reported, the majority of violent
crimes committed against Native people are committed by non Indians,
which is a political classification related to citizenships. You're a
non Indian if you're not a citizen of a trivel nation.
(17:30):
You are an Indian if you are a citizen of
a trivel nation, And according to the DOJ, non Indians
are more likely to be committing violent crimes against Indians
than Indians themselves. The reason that the jurisdictional issue is
that in nineteen seventy eight, the Supreme Court eliminated a
tribal criminal jurisdiction over non Indians on tribal lands. So today,
if you're a non Indian, again, someone who's not a
(17:51):
citizen of a tribal nation, you can come on to
travel lands and kill anyone you want, and the tribes
cannot prosecute you. The SBI has jurisdiction, but it's not
a priority for them. The SBI always has juristiction when
a Native person is murdered on treble land, but more
often than not, the SBI declines to investigate. And some
of that could be attributed to a lack of resources. However,
(18:13):
at the end of the day, it's because it's not
a priority for the FBI. The FBI does not deem
it a worthy expenditure of their resources. When you're off
of tribal lands and you're in communities like Billions or
hard in Montana and Bigcourt County, tribal governments will have
jurisdiction beyond the reservation border, so you're depending on you know,
(18:35):
state county law enforcement or the urban police department, you know,
and Billings would be dependent on the Billings police department.
And there's a lot of prejudice and bias in border
times and urban areas near reservations or with high urban
Indian population. So, for instance, in Billings Billions, the police
department has one of the highest rates of killing Native
peoples there's a high rate of violence perpetrated on Native
(18:58):
people by the Billings Police Department, and in turn a
real lack of motivation or incentive for them to investigate.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
The homicides of Native people take place.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
In buildings similar to that in the Clark County not
too far away in hard in Montana. Because they have
learned the higher straights of machine and murdered in the
entire Uniting States and you know those, the sheriff's office
there just not investigate homicides of Native people.
Speaker 10 (19:20):
So in doing some research just on Chicaia's case, we
wanted to see how big of a problem this was
and looking up data and report So the one statistic
that really stood out to me was the one in
three statistic that came out of the nineteen ninety eight
Dog report about violence against women that basically reported that
(19:40):
one in three Native American or Native.
Speaker 11 (19:43):
Women have been a victim of sexual assault, particularly rape,
And that number.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Just blew me away, from which I think goes to
the bigger issues.
Speaker 11 (19:51):
Law enforcement doesn't care and doesn't want to solve these bases,
and it's very scary, and I hopefully by us talking
about and this podcast will bring more attention to it
and make people understand who are not Native Americans why
this is important.
Speaker 10 (20:07):
Have you personally been involved in the case where you
brought information or evidence to law enforcement and how do
you handle it when you brought.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
It to them, have ignored it? I have interviewed eyewitnesses,
Aaron typed up notes and sent them to county officials,
encouraging them to follow up with the eyewitnesses. I have
called the SBI and tried to give them tips, and
every time I've done that, those tips and information I've
(20:35):
related has been ignored.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, that's in your lawyer. Yeah yeah,
I mean it's like, you know what I mean, that's crazy.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
Well, I actually had an SCI agent in the office
and buildings yell at me and say, you know, I'm
not going to investigate a case just because a lawyer
telps me I have to.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
And I of course said, well, I'm not telling you,
you have to just tell me you this relevant information,
but I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Just yeah, wow, that makes me really upset.
Speaker 8 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Well, well, we really and we know you have to go.
We really really really really appreciate you talking to us.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Please, you know, don't hesitate to up.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
We will for sure.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I would be happy to speak to you again if
you feel like that would be helpful. So okay, you know,
I'm just really faithful you're covering this.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
We'll definitely be in touch for sure. Thank you so much,
so much, have a good night. Bye. Let's stop here
for another quick break. After our conversation with Mary Catherine Nagel,
(21:53):
we sent an email to Detective Fritz of the Elston
County Sheriff's Office just to see if they were still
working on the case and looking at to Rico's involvement.
The good news is that Detective Fritz did respond via email.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
But he also said he would call us to at
least confirm that they were in fact working on the case,
and he never did, which kind of leaves us wondering
about the status of her case in Rico's potential involvement.
But the more interesting thing that has happened is the
text message from a friend of Shakaya's. Shawnee sent us
the screenshots of text messages she received a few months
(22:28):
ago from a friend named Kristin. She apparently saw Shakaia
in Great Falls, Montana, which is just three and a
half hours from Billings, where Shikaya disappeared.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
The text from Kristin read I saw her walking, she
ran and got into the back seat with them. It
looked like she had a limp. My dad said it
was a guy driving, but he couldn't make out what
he looked like. He had a mask on and the
windows were tinted. Almost positive it was a Goldbuick. That's
huge for a couple of reasons. If true Shakaya is
(22:58):
still alive. After seeing this text, I want to talk
to Shawnee and let her know what our private investigator
turned up.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Karen is the one who sent me these screenshots, gotcha,
And again, Kristen would know what she looked like. She
has seen her, she's she's known her. And again we
have heard multiple times that she has a limp.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
So did you.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Guys ever figure out what type of vehicle Rico drove
or owned? No, so the PI gave us a report
he owned a Buick.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
So when you send us those text messages today, my
heart left out of my chest.
Speaker 8 (23:34):
Like the hairs on the back of my neck stood up.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, meat too, because why I always under I always sorry.
Speaker 9 (23:43):
I know, I get it, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 8 (23:51):
But this is good news. No no, this is good
news because information that we've got matches up with somebody
who may have seen her in Great Falls, and and
it's more of a connection. I don't mean to make
you cry. I'm so sorry, but to us, like when
we saw your text messages and we had seen the
report from the PI, both of us like, oh my god.
Deanna starts texting me like did you see this. I'm like, yeah,
(24:12):
I know, right, And that's why we wanted to talk
to you today. Now we're not saying this is.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
The s It could be a coincidence.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, no, I know, I know, but it's just it's
just what makes me wonder, though, is because why would
she just get in?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Knowing who she is? Why would she Why would she
just get in? That's what I always wondered. And you
know that Romelo is from Great Falls. In fact, I
do not know that.
Speaker 9 (24:41):
In fact, he just got arrested for being on top
of a woman in a parking lot that he.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Assaulted in Great Falls. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 9 (24:51):
So I'm itching, you know what I mean, I'm like
itching my Spidey senses, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They're atactingly.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
More on that next time.
Speaker 8 (25:01):
True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Gianna Thompson,
Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnout, and me John Green.
Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile, Editing by
Jeff Ti music by Vanikor Music.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
True Crimes is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, please visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
in the basement.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Somebody told you that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
I'm come to find out.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
This is like it exploded into this huge thing.
Speaker 5 (00:12):
I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 6 (00:14):
Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride Again was
shot dead.
Speaker 5 (00:18):
I kept calling his phone during the drive.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.
Speaker 7 (00:25):
His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
he was targeted.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
Eventually a police officer answered and told me to come
to the police station.
Speaker 8 (00:34):
Justice is something that takes different shapes or forms.
Speaker 6 (00:38):
If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
late to.
Speaker 9 (00:43):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.
Speaker 8 (00:48):
I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
animal abusers arrested.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
We spent over a year and a half trying to
get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnauta.
Speaker 8 (01:15):
Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Don't Fuck with Cats.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.
Speaker 8 (01:29):
This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Kat's Studios.
So I really want to find out more about this
mysterious white house in Billings, Montana, and how it could
be connected in some way to Shicaia's disappearance.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Right, we have that old blurry photo that the team
from Kat's Studios sent us from when they went out
to Billings in twenty nineteen. Remember they did that documentary
about missing and murdered Indigenous women for NBC Universal's Oxygen network.
Stephanie and Katie said, we need to talk to Mike Toth.
He's the private investigator they worked with in Montana.
Speaker 8 (02:05):
Yeah, hopefully Mike can shed some light on this mysterious house.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
Hi Mike, Hi, how are you doing.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I'm good, How are you good? To meet you? Virtually
I guess huh.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
You know, Stephane and them, they reached out to me
in Montana because they were looking for a PI to
give him some guidance. From then on, we just started
working on the case in this one that we're talking
about now was on our radar.
Speaker 8 (02:29):
One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you
today is last week we were provided a couple of photos.
Apparently it's in reference to some weird house where girls
are supposedly held against their will in the basement and
bad things are done to them. Are you familiar with that.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
I'm familiar with that story, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And that So do you know where that house is?
Speaker 6 (02:51):
Yeah, I'm just sitting I'm in front of her right now.
I'm just driving around Aimiously, you know, they don't know
exactly what part of it was that I didn't know
what street. So it's like, I'm gonna just do a
grid drive and sure enough when I turned the corner
and boom, there it was.
Speaker 8 (03:07):
I'm on my laptop looking at it on Google street Maps.
I see it now and so, and this is what
I told Stephanie. I think the building, it looks like
it to detach the garage to me more than anything.
So do you believe there's any validity that this house
was or this building was used to old women girls against.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Her I don't know for sure.
Speaker 8 (03:32):
It doesn't look like there's a basement, so like right
to the right to the front door, there was a
camera there, right.
Speaker 6 (03:39):
It looks like there used to be one. But I
remember when we were here four years ago there was cameras.
I remember there was cameras all around the house, and
now there isn't And to me it doesn't look like
anybody did. Those cars aren't there anymore now. The lawn
is mode es freshly mode compared to everybody else's, so
(04:03):
they would just be watching it, I guess, to see
if somebody's coming and going or checking on it. Yeah,
but right now, if I was a guest, I'd say,
no one's living there.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
So our private investigator, Mike Talk says no one is
living there, and the house looks very different than it
did several years ago.
Speaker 8 (04:25):
Yeah, which might mean if it was used as a
trafficking house, and for all intentsive purposes, that's a big gift,
they've probably moved on, which makes a lot of sense.
Human traffickers don't hang out in one spot. They tend
to move around.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
A lot, right, But maybe there's some information about the
past tenants or the owners that we can find out. John,
go go do your thing and let me know what
you find out.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
KT Studio sends the photos.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Unfortunately they didn't have the exact address because it was
three years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I went online on Google and try to fin I
found the park that. This is the weird part. I
found a park that matches one of the photos they
sent that KT Studio sentest and that's the park. The
detective said. Jakia left Tumbleweed to.
Speaker 10 (05:13):
Go meet somebody out.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
This house is literally three blocks less than half a
mile from South Park. He went down, He went Yeah,
he went down and drove around the neighborhood and found
the building again. He called me. He was sitting across
the street from the building. He actually sent me a photo.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You sent me a link on Discord this morning of maps. Right, yes,
and so I'm looking at it right now, okay, yep,
And I'm looking at South Park, which is the place
that the private investigator said that she was walking to.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Right and just just to the like ten o'clock, a
little bit over from the park, there's another red dot.
Speaker 10 (05:54):
Yes, that's the building.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Oh, that's the that's the house. Okay, okay, that is
very close.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
See now I'm starting to think maybe there's some significance.
So after talking to the PI, I started thinking, okay,
let's find out who owns this building. So I went,
you know, on Google street Maps, it gives it a
street number. I'm not going to name it right now,
you don't know, but it actually gives it a street number.
So I just went on a real estate site zillow
(06:22):
dot com and typed it in. It said that address
doesn't exist, and I thought that's strange. So I said, well,
I'm gonna see if buildings Montana has like an assessor
parcel map, and so they do. They have a planning
map and an assessor's property map. I went in type
that address. It doesn't come up. But what happens is
(06:44):
the address of the building next to it comes up,
and when you're looking at the parcel map, it includes
that house next to it.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
So it's the same property, two different buildings.
Speaker 10 (06:55):
Yes, is that right?
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So same property, two different buildings.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, yes, looking at it, you would think maybe there's
separate buildings. It shows who owns the building next to
it that you can find it shows it it's an
LLC company to a person who lives in another state.
So it was just kind of.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Why would an LLC own that little barn looking thing.
It looks like a little white barn.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
At first, I thought this white building had nothing of
any significance. But then the more I keep digging in,
the more.
Speaker 10 (07:27):
Weirder it gets.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So I don't know yet. We don't know this, but
it is close to the park, so.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
We need to It is very close to that part, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So we need to ask. Hopefully we can speak to
ja Kaia's sister Sony again and ask.
Speaker 10 (07:42):
Her if she's if she's heard.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
This story about Shikaia leaving tumble Wee.
Speaker 11 (07:49):
To go walk to a park to meet somebody.
Speaker 6 (07:52):
It matches.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
But here's the difference. In twenty and nineteen, when they
found this house, they said there were cameras all over it.
He said, now, there doesn't beat any cameras on this house, okay.
And when I looked up the property tax information, up
until twenty and seventeen, it was owned by one corporation,
but in twenty and eighteen till now it switched to
(08:14):
a different corporation. Really ownership could have changed in twenty
and eighteen, which is at the same time that Jakaia
went missing. Now, maybe we're just this has nothing to
do with our disappearance. But the more we look at
this building, this white building, the more weirder it gets,
I guess. So that's just one more thing we need
(08:34):
to run down.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I've been trying to learn about human trafficking since we
talked to Sunny, and that's what they'll do. They'll rent
properties for like six months at a time and move constantly,
you know. So it's like they have like a like
a house, like a like a not a safe house,
because it's clearly not a safe house, but they'll have
(08:56):
a base, right yeah, and then leave a six months.
So it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort
of you know, stash house for these girls.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, here's the one thing in both versions of the story,
there's one common alley, and that's Tumbleweed.
Speaker 8 (09:15):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
We need to talk to Shakaia's sister, Shawnee more about
the day Shakaia disappeared.
Speaker 8 (09:33):
Yeah, now that we have a better understanding of the
area in Billings, the park and this mysterious house. Let's
talk with Shawnee.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Oh and we need to talk about the red pickup
truck that was mentioned earlier, and that's another thread we
need to pull out.
Speaker 8 (09:45):
Uh, hello, is this Shawnee? Hey, yes, Sean, no worries
one second. I have Deanna on the other line. She's
at work because she's not gonna talk much. She's just gonna.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Listen to you and I talk.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Hey, Deanna. Yeah, I have Shane on the line with us.
Talking to you last week was like, very very informative,
gave us a lot of information, and I kind of
wanted to follow up with that conversation maybe ask some
follow up questions and some more questions. If that's okay with.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
You, Yeah, that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 8 (10:18):
And how do we know there's a red truck? I'm
sorry to keep bothering with these things. We have to like,
we who saw this red truck?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
What is this?
Speaker 8 (10:26):
There's a video? We don't know what can you tell us?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Apparently there is a video of her getting onto this
red truck. And I don't know if that originated from
Detective Fritz or exactually exactly who that originated from Supposedly
there's a video of her getting onto this red truck.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I read about that.
Speaker 9 (10:44):
Your cousin's posted about that, and she said that tumblewee
couldn't read the license plate according to Yellstone Counter Share
Ups Office.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
But we don't know if that's been verified or not.
So we kind of want to talk to the cops
and see if they'll tell us anything.
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Right, So, who's Detective Fritz if you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Detective Fritz is the guy from Yellowstone County Detective's office.
He is the one who actually found her case.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Like I said, nobody gave it to him.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
He just picked it up off the desk, and he's
been the one that's been trying to He's been the
one that's been on her case for these past four years, and.
Speaker 8 (11:21):
He's still actively working it.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I don't know about how actively, but I know he
is a detective assigned and has.
Speaker 8 (11:29):
He been open to speaking with your family about Hicaya.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It kind of seems like it's on his terms, because
when we try to call or get a hold of
him or anything, we don't get it on the answer
back unless he calls us. I don't feel very comfortable
with them handling my Sissi's.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Case at all.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
You know, I don't know exactly what happened.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I just know that she was filed.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Detective Fritz told us himself that he's the one who
found it three months later and decided to pick it
up and with it. We would try to call into
the detective's office, and if we were either told that
the Tective Fritz needs to get ahold of us, they
wouldn't really actually listen to what we had to say.
I don't even know if any of the information that
(12:13):
we told them was taken down and given to him.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (12:19):
That's the kind of feeling we have too, and we've
been through that before personally, you know, so we definitely understand,
and it's very upsetting.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I get the.
Speaker 12 (12:28):
Impression that they were kind of probably like, oh, you know,
a girl of the streets kind of thing, and on
top of that, she paid an American and you know
what I mean, Like, I just get that impression.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
That's exactly what happened. Yeah, exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
There were a few things that popped up that we
didn't understand why they weren't being looked into and I'll
text my mom just to confirm who that was, what
that was. But again, like there was two things that
we called in that we got tips on our own
and don't know if they were taken serious. And then
if we did talk to Detective Fritz we were told
(13:10):
that it needs to come from a first person, no
more the no, here's the same thing. Yeah, and which
I did I get. But at the same time, when
we're telling you who this is, they were never.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Contacted by Detective Frits.
Speaker 9 (13:29):
Yeah, and unfortunately that that time is so important, you know,
and you know that you're living in so Yeah, that's
kind of the impression that we have as well, and
we don't want to ruin this investigation. My biggest thing
right now is Rico is in jail right and he
hasn't had trial yet. He's been in prison or in
(13:50):
jail for like eighteen months, eighteen nineteen months. Are they
like putting the pressure on him to get information about
where he took Shakaya.
Speaker 8 (14:02):
You know, this whole situation where Shikaia is missing person's
case just sat on somebody's desk. It's really bothering me.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
I don't get how someone a young girl could go missing,
the family files, the police report, and nothing happens until
it's just found on someone's desk. It doesn't seem right,
especially since we know that Indigenous women disappear and are
killed at very alarming rates.
Speaker 8 (14:21):
Yeah, it feels like Shakaia's missing person case is part
of a larger issue with indigenous women in Montana.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I came across this lawyer and indigenous activists. Her name
is Mary Catherine Nagel. I think she can really help
us explain how Shakaia's case fits in the larger problem
of missing and murdered Indigenous women.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Deanna, Yeah, Mary Catherine's on the line with that.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Oh wonderful.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Hello, Hello, hello, hello.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
We are so nervous to talk to you because we
read about you today and you are a very very
impressive woman.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Oh that's very kind. Let me just tell you of
any anxiety.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I am nothing but a commoner, so there's.
Speaker 7 (15:09):
Nothing magic about it.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Oh my gosh, you're a playwright, you're a lawyer. Come on,
you're pretty impressive.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
That's that's very kind, and I am just very excited
to be connected with you two and and to hear
you know what you're in the stories, you're interested in
sharing and telling, and.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
We wanted to provide some like backstory to Shakaya. She's
our missing woman, and maybe some of the challenges that
you know that she would experience and and you know
with law enforcement and her substance abuse problem perhaps and
why that happens, and you know, like how like the
(15:55):
Violence Against Women's Act failed and how that all goes inteh,
why tribal sovereigntory is so important, right, So we wanted
to kind of talk to somebody who knew about that,
and you are like the perfect person to do that.
So I'm so grateful that you're that you're willing to
talk to us.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
So the worst that I do is trying to fight,
for instance, for these families and for the lost lives,
fighting asking law enforcement to investigate their cases. It's hard work.
There's pretty much every incentive you could think of to
not investigate the homicides of Native people in this country.
And even though we are the population most likely to
(16:38):
be murdered, for the population who's homouflage and the least
likely to be investigated, which I think is in part
why we're murdered as such, incredibly high rates. There are
just no consequences for murdering Native people. On many reservations
today and in many urban areas, you can murder a
Native person and law enforcement will not investigate.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Why.
Speaker 7 (16:57):
Why is that?
Speaker 10 (16:58):
I mean, is it just back of resources?
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Is it just.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
So?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
There are many reasons why Native women and Native people
are more likely to be murder than any other population.
One is a jurisdictional issue, and that is that, as
the Department of Justice has reported, the majority of violent
crimes committed against Native people are committed by non Indians,
which is a political classification related to citizenships. You're a
non Indian if you're not a citizen of a trivel nation.
(17:30):
You are an Indian if you are a citizen of
a trivel nation, And according to the DOJ, non Indians
are more likely to be committing violent crimes against Indians
than Indians themselves. The reason that the jurisdictional issue is
that in nineteen seventy eight, the Supreme Court eliminated a
tribal criminal jurisdiction over non Indians on tribal lands. So today,
if you're a non Indian, again, someone who's not a
(17:51):
citizen of a tribal nation, you can come on to
travel lands and kill anyone you want, and the tribes
cannot prosecute you. The SBI has jurisdiction, but it's not
a priority for them. The SBI always has juristiction when
a Native person is murdered on treble land, but more
often than not, the SBI declines to investigate. And some
of that could be attributed to a lack of resources. However,
(18:13):
at the end of the day, it's because it's not
a priority for the FBI. The FBI does not deem
it a worthy expenditure of their resources. When you're off
of tribal lands and you're in communities like Billions or
hard in Montana and Bigcourt County, tribal governments will have
jurisdiction beyond the reservation border, so you're depending on you know,
(18:35):
state county law enforcement or the urban police department, you know,
and Billings would be dependent on the Billings police department.
And there's a lot of prejudice and bias in border
times and urban areas near reservations or with high urban
Indian population. So, for instance, in Billings Billions, the police
department has one of the highest rates of killing Native
peoples there's a high rate of violence perpetrated on Native
(18:58):
people by the Billings Police Department, and in turn a
real lack of motivation or incentive for them to investigate.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
The homicides of Native people take place.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
In buildings similar to that in the Clark County not
too far away in hard in Montana. Because they have
learned the higher straights of machine and murdered in the
entire Uniting States and you know those, the sheriff's office
there just not investigate homicides of Native people.
Speaker 10 (19:20):
So in doing some research just on Chicaia's case, we
wanted to see how big of a problem this was
and looking up data and report So the one statistic
that really stood out to me was the one in
three statistic that came out of the nineteen ninety eight
Dog report about violence against women that basically reported that
(19:40):
one in three Native American or Native.
Speaker 11 (19:43):
Women have been a victim of sexual assault, particularly rape,
And that number.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Just blew me away, from which I think goes to
the bigger issues.
Speaker 11 (19:51):
Law enforcement doesn't care and doesn't want to solve these bases,
and it's very scary, and I hopefully by us talking
about and this podcast will bring more attention to it
and make people understand who are not Native Americans why
this is important.
Speaker 10 (20:07):
Have you personally been involved in the case where you
brought information or evidence to law enforcement and how do
you handle it when you brought.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
It to them, have ignored it? I have interviewed eyewitnesses,
Aaron typed up notes and sent them to county officials,
encouraging them to follow up with the eyewitnesses. I have
called the SBI and tried to give them tips, and
every time I've done that, those tips and information I've
(20:35):
related has been ignored.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, that's in your lawyer. Yeah yeah,
I mean it's like, you know what I mean, that's crazy.
Speaker 7 (20:45):
Well, I actually had an SCI agent in the office
and buildings yell at me and say, you know, I'm
not going to investigate a case just because a lawyer
telps me I have to.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
And I of course said, well, I'm not telling you,
you have to just tell me you this relevant information,
but I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Just yeah, wow, that makes me really upset.
Speaker 8 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Well, well, we really and we know you have to go.
We really really really really appreciate you talking to us.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Please, you know, don't hesitate to up.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
We will for sure.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
I would be happy to speak to you again if
you feel like that would be helpful. So okay, you know,
I'm just really faithful you're covering this.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
We'll definitely be in touch for sure. Thank you so much,
so much, have a good night. Bye. Let's stop here
for another quick break. After our conversation with Mary Catherine Nagel,
(21:53):
we sent an email to Detective Fritz of the Elston
County Sheriff's Office just to see if they were still
working on the case and looking at to Rico's involvement.
The good news is that Detective Fritz did respond via email.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
But he also said he would call us to at
least confirm that they were in fact working on the case,
and he never did, which kind of leaves us wondering
about the status of her case in Rico's potential involvement.
But the more interesting thing that has happened is the
text message from a friend of Shakaya's. Shawnee sent us
the screenshots of text messages she received a few months
(22:28):
ago from a friend named Kristin. She apparently saw Shakaia
in Great Falls, Montana, which is just three and a
half hours from Billings, where Shikaya disappeared.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
The text from Kristin read I saw her walking, she
ran and got into the back seat with them. It
looked like she had a limp. My dad said it
was a guy driving, but he couldn't make out what
he looked like. He had a mask on and the
windows were tinted. Almost positive it was a Goldbuick. That's
huge for a couple of reasons. If true Shakaya is
(22:58):
still alive. After seeing this text, I want to talk
to Shawnee and let her know what our private investigator
turned up.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Karen is the one who sent me these screenshots, gotcha,
And again, Kristen would know what she looked like. She
has seen her, she's she's known her. And again we
have heard multiple times that she has a limp.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
So did you.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Guys ever figure out what type of vehicle Rico drove
or owned? No, so the PI gave us a report
he owned a Buick.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
So when you send us those text messages today, my
heart left out of my chest.
Speaker 8 (23:34):
Like the hairs on the back of my neck stood up.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, meat too, because why I always under I always sorry.
Speaker 9 (23:43):
I know, I get it, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 8 (23:51):
But this is good news. No no, this is good
news because information that we've got matches up with somebody
who may have seen her in Great Falls, and and
it's more of a connection. I don't mean to make
you cry. I'm so sorry, but to us, like when
we saw your text messages and we had seen the
report from the PI, both of us like, oh my god.
Deanna starts texting me like did you see this. I'm like, yeah,
(24:12):
I know, right, And that's why we wanted to talk
to you today. Now we're not saying this is.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
The s It could be a coincidence.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, no, I know, I know, but it's just it's
just what makes me wonder, though, is because why would
she just get in?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Knowing who she is? Why would she Why would she
just get in? That's what I always wondered. And you
know that Romelo is from Great Falls. In fact, I
do not know that.
Speaker 9 (24:41):
In fact, he just got arrested for being on top
of a woman in a parking lot that he.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Assaulted in Great Falls. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 9 (24:51):
So I'm itching, you know what I mean, I'm like
itching my Spidey senses, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They're atactingly.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
More on that next time.
Speaker 8 (25:01):
True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Gianna Thompson,
Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnout, and me John Green.
Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile, Editing by
Jeff Ti music by Vanikor Music.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
True Crimes is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, please visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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