October 14, 2021 • 47 mins
Carolina and Devin are joined by writer/creator JEANIE BERGEN to talk ghosts, the newly engaged couples from Bachelor in Paradise, moving for a relationship, love bombers, when you are on a date and realize you just showed up to your own roast, and most importantly, self-love! Jeanie shares all the wisdom she garnered from her Year Without Men - and it’s way too enthralling to contain in one episode!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow
and this is Devin Learry. My dog is snoring his
little face off in the corner. And it's so funny
with dogs because they really don't help with anything, Like
they don't help with and yet they're so tired and
they sometimes seem stressed out, and I'm like, you have
(00:37):
nothing to worry about. Well, sometimes I think that. Other
times I'm like, maybe you're just seeing things that we
don't see. As many people know and many people don't.
There was a ghost in the house I grew up in.
She was a woman who were Victorian era clothing. I
(00:58):
don't know, like that's that's as far as we know
about her. But the dogs did always see her and
their hair did rise up at the sight of her.
So that's when I learned dogs are seeing things I
don't see at all times. And so even though in
my house growing up, it was kind of a constant
chorus of like, hey, stop barking, Hey, there's nothing there,
(01:20):
there's nothing there, it's like, was there nothing there? Or
were the dogs like okay, so you're saying there's nothing there,
and yet I saw a shadow and there was nothing
where the shadow for the shadow to be reflected. So
I'm not seeing where you're correct in saying there's nothing
to be barking at right now. Like I think they're
actually on a higher plane. I think you're right about that.
(01:42):
The Victoria air clothing reminds me of a time years
ago when when you were in the Victorian era and
you wore roughly callers. I'm gonna go to a past
life quickly and um talk about that. No. I was
in the Berkshires for a film shoot and the whole
crew was staying at this hotel. I described it as
(02:03):
the kind of hotel where if we had left and
told people we had stayed there, I could totally imagine
someone being like that place burned down for thirty years ago,
Like it was very spooky looking, and we were the
only people there can be like wait, you're Bruce Willis
and you're dead, and you're like, oh my god. So
(02:28):
we asked the receptionist are there any ghosts here? And
he said no, and then he paused and said, well,
there has been one sighting of a child in Victoria.
Where it is there it is. And Linda Cardilini was
with us and for a hot second, we thought because
(02:51):
she was the one who told us about the ghost,
and so we were very scared, and we thought about
hiring a child actor to dressed in Victoria eraic clubbing
and aid for her in her room. But then we
thought that that no, that that could be traumatizing, that scary,
that's over the top. Children. Ghosts are actually the most
terrifying the idea possible. This woman that is a friend
(03:15):
of my mom's told us this story about this haunted
apartment in l A that was on her block, and
she once a year approximately she would see a family
move in and then they would move out because of
the haunting. And the one story that she told us
shakes me to my core even when I think about
it right now, which is that they this family, that
(03:38):
this person who lived there, who she she went up
to and when he was in his moving truck, told
her the story. He came home, there was a layer
of what looked like soot or ash or dust, like
a grayish substance all over the floor and walls. When
he comes home, Nope, and what happens, a little gust
(03:58):
of wind occur us blows the dust. It kind of
like ripples across the floor and leaves the outline of
a baby rattle. Are you screaming? Are you crying? Because
that is what I would be doing if I saw
the outline of a baby rattle. And I'm trying to
(04:19):
think of what the outline of a baby rattle looked like. Well,
it's sinister. I'll tell you that we're gonna bring on
our guest little early today because I know she's going
to have some thoughts on our first topic of discussion,
which is the Bachelor in Paradise finale. I know we're
a little late, but we're gonna make it worth it
with the quality of our commentary, not the timing of
our commentary. So our guest today is a friend of mine,
(04:41):
a friend crush of Carolina's. She's a writer, creator, dog mom,
and her name is Genie Bergen. Welcome, Jeanie. Thank you
so much for having me. I'm so excited. Thanks for
being here. I'm so excited to have you here. I
met Genie at work. For the listeners who don't know, um,
I got a friend to crush on her because she's
(05:01):
so funny and insightful and just emanates empathy and also
has like the most cynical, dark sense of humor, which
is such a good combo, like just like a really kind,
caring person who also laughs at the most fucked up
stuff that I could ever imagine coming out of I
think that you are very similar. Really, yes, thanks, all right,
(05:24):
let's talk about me actually instead of so what if
we're going to today anyway? Um, more about my past
with the ghost in my house? Okay, So I cyberstocked
Genie obviously because we worked together, and I was like, wait,
what's her life like, Like, what what does she do
on the weekends? What is she into? And then I
(05:44):
found that she had this Instagram account called a Year
Without Men. Obviously I'm intrigued. Obviously, I'm dying to find
out more. And now I finally have my opportunity to
ask you about your life, Genie. Thank you. Yeah, my
little my little Year without Men. It's like I only
have like two followers or something, which is kind of
fine because I feel like I divulge so much that
(06:06):
I'm like, I just want to keep it small. It's
very it's very vulnerable, which I love. It's also like
beautifully written, like I feel like it could be put
into a book. Well, that's my plan, but you have
to have like whatever. We'll get into later, yes, but like, yeah,
that's my plan. I hope to read it on pages
one day. But before we get into that year without Men,
(06:29):
we're going to talk about a beach full of men,
Bachelor Paradise. The finale thoughts reactions. We had three engagements
and Kenny and Marie, Joe and Serena. I'm just naming
it out loud. Okay, what what we're What were your thoughts, Genie,
(06:50):
your first response, first ideas on watching this beautiful piece
of television. My thought is that Marissa and Riley should
have been prom king and prom queen, genuinely in love,
wonderful people. It seems not to say that anyone else isn't,
but like they just they are like the true Yes
(07:11):
that's not even a phrase, but like they're like the
true couple of that show. And like Joe and Serena
is super cute, Joe is like charming, but I feel
like his chemistry with Serena. Like I love that I'm
saying this, Like this is just people on TV. I
haven't I don't even know them or whatever, but like
I feel like Joe and Kendall have so much chemistry,
and I just don't see that with Joe and Serena.
(07:33):
Like they're cute, but like, who wouldn't be cute with
Joe's I love Joe and I can't even tell you
how much I would throw myself at him if I
was ever at a party with him in college or
something like. He is so my type. But what I'll
say about Joe is that I feel like he's one
of those guys who pretends he doesn't know how charming
(07:53):
he is, but he knows how charming he is, which
always makes me suspect. I don't really I don't necessarily
suspect him. I just think the idea of like this
ten year age gap working, and I don't know, it
just seems seven. You really got to look at the mirror. Yeah,
(08:14):
and I've been in ten year age gaps and they
didn't work. That's what I'm saying. Like I think she's
so young. Of course he's charming, but is he that
like intellectually stimulating. I don't know. And I just feel
like she seems like mature for her age. I just
feel like eventually she's going to get to the point.
Speaking from personal experience where you're sitting across the dinner
(08:34):
table and you're like, there's nothing you can say that
will be interesting to me, and so like, let's just
not talk. I don't know. I okay. So I'm going
to go back on everything I said by also saying
that I am at a point in my life where
I'm a very easy crier, and Marie and Kenney don't
really do that much for me. Um, but Morris and
(08:54):
Riley and Serena and Joe made me tear up a
couple of times. And to go back to Marsus and
Riley for a second, there's a point where Riley gives
a stunningly beautiful monologue where he talks about how you
know he they both want big families, they both want
a blissful domestic life. And Riley says, you know, I
(09:16):
have the spantasy to be at Sunday morning about letting
my wife sleep in and going to make breakfast for
my daughter and making whatever she wants and spoiling her,
and then my wife will wake up and we'll all
play together. And then looks at her and says, when
I look at you, I see Sunday morning. I have
chills on my body right now. And I love her
(09:38):
reaction because she was like, oh my god, I know
she was like Okay, let's just go right now, like literally,
let's go. I would have felt the same exact way. Also,
I loved when the in a previous episode when she
talked to him about like him needing to open up
and he talked about his family history. She was so
(10:01):
like caring and gentle with him and being like I
I see you, and I see the struggles you've been
through and I love you. Like it just was such
a lesson in like how to listen to someone I
felt like, and he clearly felt so safe with her
to like open up, and I just thought, like, normally
those conversations on this show are like I need you
to open up, and the persons like, okay, I really
(10:22):
like you and I see myself falling in love with you,
and they're like, I'm so grateful that he opened up
to me tonight. But this was like a real conversation
where he probably unload so much trauma. Taitia on her
season was like I need you to open up to me,
and this guy was like okay, um I was suicidal,
and she was like thank you. So much for opening
up to me. Yeah, She's like, this is what I've
been looking for from you. I was like, wait, what
(10:44):
the fuck is going on? I know, what did you
guys think of Becca and Thomas breakup slash reunion on
Instagram where they revealed they're actually still together. Thomas is
quoting Grey's Anatomy and this episode, wait when Okay, So,
first of all, I don't even think it's quoting to
(11:05):
Gray's Anatomy. When someone says like you're my person, Like
I feel like that's become a part of the general lexicon,
Like I I think that, like I would say that
and forget that it had to do with Gray's Anatomy.
But Shanna Rhymes is so much of a great American
mind at this point that will be quoting her without realizing.
But Thomas at one point when he's like leaving and
(11:27):
Becca runs after him, which is like such a great
dramatic moment, like Thomas running in her strong across the beach,
and when she sees him, he's like, have faith in us,
choose us, fight for us, be with us. And I
was even listening to Becca's podcast later where Tea was
a guest. I've been very, very obsessed with the season
(11:48):
and TIA's like it kind of reminded me of Grey's Anatomy. Yeah,
and I didn't say anything. I love Tia. She was
the one that got away. I just saw this poson.
I think it might have been Redect Tress or something,
but it was like, he's not hot, He's just tall.
And I feel like, I'm so sorry, Like Thomas is
a good looking man, but also like I feel like
(12:09):
to go back to what you're saying about Joe, the
intellectual stimulation, Like I don't get Thomas, I don't get Kenny,
Like what are they bringing to the table. Nothing. I
don't understand it. Like Thomas is very tall, and I
understand like what it feels so good to be in
a tall man's arms that I think you allow yourself
to like erase how boring they are. It's like, oh,
(12:33):
I just want to be in their arms, you know.
I totally know. And I did go on a few
hinge dates with a six ft ten person, and I
did constantly ask myself that question of like how much
of it? Yes, all right, We've talked about this before.
That's what I struggle most with on these shows is
is anyone actually able to have an interesting conversation? Like,
(12:57):
is anyone actually funny? Is anyone actually reading our nicles?
Having reading articles on the beach? Are going to pass
the reconciliation bill. Noah seemed a little more intellectual than
the others. I thought, my obsession with Noah has permeated
my dreams. He's permeated my unconscious I had a dream
(13:17):
about him last night. Final thoughts, anyone, Okay, I have
so many final thoughts. First of all, Joe and Serena,
I do get. I do see the chemistry sometimes, like
sometimes their conversation comes easy. Mari and Kenny, they actually
both seemed to be really into each other, like the
moment I go back to is Um a few episodes
ago when they got back together and she said I
(13:37):
would leave with you today Rose or no Rose, and
he said me too. So I was like, there's obviously
something there because they are willing to go potentially off
TV to be together. But they don't really talk. They
don't really taketeen years older than her and she seems
like fine with it. But that is true, that is crazy. Um, Yeah,
they don't really talk. I don't I haven't caught any
(14:00):
I haven't picked up on any information about either of
them as people, like I haven't heard them talk about
anything about themselves, but maybe, like to boring, people should
be together. So Abigail and Noah ended up being together
in real life. Thank god. I was so happy about this,
and they put a lot of great Instagram reels on
(14:23):
both of their accounts of them literally making out under waterfalls.
I was like, oh my god, this looks so nice.
And there was something about it like that she left
New York to be with him at least part time
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which I was like, so that is love.
But Devin, a part of me is like, Okay, I
mean all three of us are writers in l A.
(14:45):
I feel like, don't you at times with how hard
this industry is to be like, sure, I'll go marry
a nurse and Tulsa, Oklahoma. That kind of sounds nicely
on that way. Yeah, absolutely not. Also, why is it
though I understand why Kendall didn't want to move to
be like I mean, it's it's sad, but it's like
(15:06):
that the only thing keeping them apart was the location.
But I would have a very hard time leaving my
life for a person who lives in Tulsa, Oklama. Yeah, right,
depend for me, I could do Chicago one pent I
could do a lot of places. Um. And I do
think that I always think that there was something deeper
(15:28):
with with Kendall and Joe because too, I'm just like,
really like, you couldn't make that work. I think if
you really felt like this was the person you want
to spend the rest of your life with, you would
have moved to Chicago or Joe would have like made
l A work somehow. I actually like have told myself
that a lot when I have to go to l
A for work and I'm like, I just wish that
(15:49):
I didn't have to be in l A to get
jobs in this industry. It's annoying. And then I'm like, wow,
the other option could be like someone who has to
move to a place like Tulsa. I'm very happy for
all the couples. I'm just excited to see who lasts.
I love watching I love the Claren Dale drama. I
I just I've never been to the this is the
first time I've even watched Bachelor in Paradise. And I think,
(16:12):
and we'll get into this um with your year about
without Manginie. But I think because I've been single for
a year and a half maybe almost two years, and
I have talked about how like I'm not really datable
right now in my life, just I don't have room
for a partner right now, and I kind of I'm
(16:34):
getting this like vicarious. It's sort of like when I
got sober, I would sort of get vicariously drunk through
the Jersey shorecast and now I feel like I'm vicariously
dating through these shows because you'll you'll sort of have
the same internal monolock you would if you run a
date like why did he say that that was so weird?
Or like maybe they don't have chemistry, maybe they do,
(16:55):
or the best being like oh my god, they're kissing
under a waterfall. Oh my god, that looks so nice,
and I feel like that satiates me. I do wish
though I will say, like I understand the waterfall on
the Instagram at all, but like I want to see
like what they're like, what is what is it like
when they go to the d m V. What is
it like when they have to like a really long line,
or what does grocery shopping look like? And like what
(17:17):
does life really look like? And I feel like that's
the part that we don't see and it's not always
the fun part. But that's why like more like docuseries.
I like to balance it out with like docuseries like
Love in the Spectrum or even like dating around you see,
like it's less produced and more like the actual people interacting,
which I feel is also I don't know, it's a
(17:39):
good balance. Well also because now you say that it's
it's a reminder that those are the situations that kind
of test couples weirdly, like what are you like when
money is low? You know? Or what do you like
when we rented a vacation house and it sucks? Or
you know, what are you like these situations? I think
(18:00):
that there's so much to be said for how people's
attitudes run together now that this now that we're going
in this direction. Have either of you watched Married at
First Sight? I have not, but I've heard about it.
It's a little more doc you style, because um, it's
not there's no competition or anything. It's just like these
(18:22):
people get married and they've never met. It's like an
arranged marriage basically. And then the crew follows them and
sets up all these things for them, Like, now they're
going to move in together, what's that going to be?
Like now they're gonna have to have like a party
for the other person's family and see how that goes.
And then you know stuff like that. Anyway, just give it,
(18:44):
give it a think. See if you want to engage.
I'm gonna give it a big old think. Yeah, we're
going to take a quick commercial break, and then we
are going to be back asking Jeanie about her A
Year Without Men. Stay tuned, and we're back with true romance. Jeanie,
(19:10):
you have a project called A Year Without Men? And
Devin told me this and immediately I was interested. When
did you come up with this? What prompted you? And um,
can you tell us a little bit about it? Sure?
So it was at the end of which leading wasn't
was kind of good time exactly And people have said that,
(19:34):
and I think that was actually like the best timing
for my mental health because I think put us all
under like, um, I don't know a spotlight of like
what we were actually dealing with and like what tools
we had to like manage our lives and like take
care of ourselves. Anyway, it was the end of and
I went through and I have been dating, like I've
(19:56):
been writing about dating for a long time. Like I
I got married and I was twenty four, which is
so young, Like we were talking about Serena and Joe earlier,
and like I just am a completely different person than
I was at age thirty seven than I was when
I was twenty four, Like I have my own voice,
like I speak up for myself, Like that was not
the case when I got married. Like I think I
(20:18):
was looking for like a man to take care of
me and to have safety and a man, which I
think is a lot of Like sadly, it sounds so antiquated,
but I think it's still part of the narrative. Like
you were just talking about what about yes, yeah, like
married at first sight, Like our culture, like the marriage
we put so much fucking weight Unlike sorry, I don't
even know if you can swear, but like you guys
are so kind, but like so much pressure on marriage
(20:44):
and it's like anyway, whatever, I got married when I
was twenty four, and so my first experience, like really
dating didn't happen until I was and it was like okay, Cupid,
like online dating. And at first, when I started writing
about dating, I was like coming at it from you know,
it's easy to be cynical and like make fun of
like online dating profiles or whatever, and like sometimes you
(21:06):
have to because people are not so Like I had
this blog called Genie does the Internet, and I would
like make fun of these like crazy messages that I
would get um and it was really fun. But then
something about like I think it's part of growing up,
Like it wasn't serving me anymore, Like it didn't feel
good to make fun of someone who wrote me a
message with like what I thought was too many emojis, Like, oh,
(21:28):
how's tartesting? He's sending me a flower emoji? Who was this? Fuck?
Like honestly, Like, I mean, that's not my thing. My
friend used to get these flower emojis from the sky
and she was like, oh my god, he sent me
a flower, and like he didn't send you a flower,
He sent you an emoji head no effort into this.
What are why are you impressed he sent what? Like
(21:51):
the things we accept is like anyway, this is a
long story to get to the place that I was
at in twenty nineteen, was I had been online dating
for like five six years, like had met some people,
but I met this person who it was like a
whirlwind romance in like two weeks. I later found out
it was love bombing. Like it was just like, oh
(22:13):
my god, like we we met for coffee and then
it turned into like an eight hour date until like
even though I thought he was very handsome, I wanted
to get away from him. And I was like, Okay,
I'm gonna go get my nails done now, I'll see
you later. And he was like, oh, I could go
for a manicure, and so he goes and gets his
nails done with me, and I think, like, oh my god,
this is what I've always wanted, a man who's like
(22:33):
comfortable enough to go get his nails done. Because so
many men can we just say, Can I just say,
do not take care of their hands and feet? Yes,
every single one I've ever known. Yes, it's maybe teeth also,
but like I've been scratched by men before, like not
in a way now in the hot way, like can
(22:54):
you trim your fingernails? Can you do that? For all
of society? Anyway, I went in the state with this guy.
He ends up going to get his Nailson with me,
and then for the next two weeks, I was like,
we're getting married. Like we spent all of our time
together and then I was at the time also drinking
too much, and so I and he was sober and
so like I would drink too much and text him
even though like I knew I shouldn't be doing that,
(23:15):
but I was like using the alcohol to like let
myself do something that I knew was bad for me. Um.
And that's all to say that it didn't work out.
We did not get married. He ended up being a
horrible person in the end. I asked for my jacket back,
like when my last time going over to his place
(23:35):
to cook up with him, and he was like, oh,
I threw an l a river, what the fuck? And
he this was his sense of humor, like he thought,
I know that. I'm like, okay, that was either a joke,
but it's like that's what they do. They like say
these horrible things and oh I'm funny. And that was
like part of my because I would push back on
him because he'd be like, oh, he'd make fun of me,
(23:56):
and I was like, hey, that doesn't work for me,
Like you may talk, you made talk to your friends
like that. But it doesn't. I don't appreciate being made
fun of um. And like my relationships is my friends.
We don't make fun of each other, like we support
each other. Like there's teasing, of course, like I think
that should exist in any relationship, but I'd like you
to take note. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm taking notes. Sorry,
(24:21):
go ahead. Like one of the things he made fun
of me about was where I lived. And at that point,
like I lived like mid City and this apartment that
you know, I had been living with a roommate before,
and I moved to this square foot like to better
apartment that wasn't maybe in the best neighborhood, but was gorgeous,
and I felt like I have a home and I
have my own space, and this feels really good to me.
(24:41):
And the first time he came over, he said something
about the neighborhood and he was like making fun of me,
and I was like, I finally said to him, I
was like, you know what, I've worked really hard to
live here and to pay my rent and to like,
you know, get by, and you making fun of my
home is not that doesn't make me feel good. You know,
and the whole thing about like I'm joking, like it
doesn't better, Like it isn't the intention behind it. It's
(25:03):
like you're causing me harm and I'm vocalizing that to you. Anyway.
That's all to say, this guy spurred my need to
eliminate alcohol. Follow up, I took like nine months off
of drinking, and now I will have a glass of
wine every now and again and and all that. But
I eliminated alcohol and I was like, this isn't working
for me, Like I've been online dating doing this disaster
(25:28):
for like eight years and it's not working. So I'm
gonna take some time off. And I did that in
the beginning of it started with January one, and it
wasn't my friend you were going to say, started with
January six. Yeah, So after I saw men on January
six turned me off of them for a long time.
(25:48):
Oh my god. Honestly, I would not be surprised if
my ex husband was part of that group. I have
access as well, who I would not be surprised. Yeah,
But let's all to say. My friend Michael was so
sweet about it. He was like, does that mean me too?
And I was like, no, Michael, it does not mean
you get rid of like from my life. It was
(26:12):
so cute, um, but I was like, Okay, I'm going
to take myself on dates because my biggest thing too
with men is the type of men I was dating.
They couldn't plan a date to save their fucking life.
And I'm like, make a dinner reservation. Like if someone
made a dinner reservation, which this guy did, the l
a river Jacket guy. He made a reservation at a
(26:32):
vegan restaurant. I was like, okay, like he's really got
it together. And you think about how easy that is,
and it's the simplest thing, but I feel like some
people just do not make any effort at all. That
one person comes along and makes a reservation, You're like,
that's it. They've got to be my husband whatever. I've
heard someone compare it to like two people holding a
couch and it's like sometimes the other person will drop
(26:55):
the couch and you'll think that you can hold the
other side of it totally, even though you just can't
carry your couch that way. And that's sort of being
a metaphor for a relationship. Men doing the bare minimum
has been something that women have put up with for millennium. Yeah,
and like I what you were saying about love bombing.
I have had that in a relationship where at the
beginning was so overwhelming with like surprise dates. But it's like,
(27:19):
actually that stuff wasn't that amazing, you know. It was
like it wasn't like he was actually listening to me
and understanding me in a way like that would have
been more meaningful, but at the time it felt like
these like flashy things. And then once that phase is
over in kind of a narcissistic dynamic, then it's like
total devaluation nothingness and you're just like wait what Then
(27:44):
you immediately or at least I did, put it on
yourself like oh I must have done something wrong because
now like all of that's gone. What happened? Um? And
then also because they make you feel so like seen
in those eight hour long dates, like you're talking about
where you're like, okay, you're divulging all this stuff, and
they kind of like manipulate you into feeling like you
(28:05):
can trust them. Then when they start to like devalue you,
like you're saying with the comment about like where you're living,
it feels all the more painful because you're like but
this was the person who shined their light on me,
and I thought like, this was the person who had
chosen me, and if they think this about me, it
must be true because they're already dug in so deep.
I dated someone who would like intimate that I was lazy,
(28:27):
like just say stuff like oh my gosh, of course
you didn't do that in time, or of course you
didn't read that, and Janie I at the same moment
as you were. One day, it suddenly flipped and I
just looked over at him and I was like, I
actually work really hard. And I remember that feeling of
being like, yeah, what are you talking about, Like you
think I don't do anything and it's just sad to
(28:50):
me though that that took a second for me to
register that at first. Again, like Devin is saying, I
felt like, oh, yeah, you just know me super well. Yeah,
you're right, like I'm lazy, I don't enough. And there's
this speaking of Reductress, a great headline that was like
woman with four jobs is being super lazy or something
like that, and it's like, Yeah, I actually beat up
(29:10):
on myself a lot, as do nearly all women I know,
and so why am I going to invite someone else
to do that, and also that's on him, like that's
his ship, and I think, who do that? Like I
would never speak to someone like that, Like I think
it's so whatever that guy had going on, like he
had some pain, you know, and it's not to excuse it,
(29:33):
but it's like that's his ship and he's putting it
on you. But then if like just speaking from my perspective,
like I just was working with at this wonderful coach
or name is Karen Brown, and it's like one of
my core things that I've been carrying with me for
my whole life. And I think a lot of people
do is what's wrong with me? Like what's wrong with me? Why?
Why don't I have love? Why don't I have this?
(29:55):
Like what is wrong with me that this person doesn't
love me? Or this person is treating me a way?
And it's like men who say stuff like that to you,
like you're being lazy, Like nothing's wrong with me? Something
with you, dude, Like I'm not being lazy, like anyway,
I just no, that's so helpful. And I also it
reminds me of what would I do if a friend
(30:18):
said something like that, you know, like Why do I
give this low bar for how a partner would treat
me when, like you said, like I would never say
that to a friend. Yeah. One of my favorite aspects
of the Year Without Men idea is in the first
post you have on the Year Without Men Instagram account,
which is at a year without men. By the way,
(30:38):
you say, what I mean by a year without men
is that I'm going to date me for the next year,
take myself on dates and little adventures that I'm always
saying I would do if only I had a partner.
I'm tired of not living my life to the fullest
because I'm waiting for someone else to live it with me,
which I love because I feel like, as you were saying,
with all this emphasis on marriage, that that show like
(31:00):
The Bachelor are based around, and like pretty much everything
in our culture is based around, and it's become kind
of this like capitalist monster of like when are you
getting married? Like they're like by a certain age and
then what are you gonna do next? And like, I
don't know I even notice it. Weirdly, people's like relationship
posts get so many likes it's really weird. Do you
(31:21):
know what I'm talking about? Like people want to like
people are ready to like celebrate the union of our
relationship and like and wait to see what happens next
in it, and like why aren't they and getting it's
like this very bizarre thing. I am a part of that,
though I feel like I'm a part of the problem.
I get a conditioned to be yes exactly like I
want to post about a relationship. I want people to
(31:42):
think that I'm happy and love and that and in
this really dark way that I'm like super lovable and
in fact, the thing that turned me off of it
recently was seeing Elizabeth when we did our Elizabeth Holmes episodes,
seeing her partner posts so much about her, I was like,
this is gross. Yeah, something I've been thinking about a lot.
And Genie, I wanted to ask about the dates that
(32:05):
you took yourself on, because I do think with our
emphasis on marriage, our emphasis on relationships, that we think
our life will begin once blank happens. And I think
that especially applies to boyfriend. I think that especially applies
to having a husband, but I also think that applies
to getting a certain job, making a certain amount of money,
(32:27):
by getting a house, you know, like then my real
life begins and and it's something that I it's a
thinking rut that I get stuck in a lot, a lot,
a lot a lot like daily even you know, when
will I meet the person where I can begin my life? Really?
But then my life starts and there's this sense of
(32:48):
being in a waiting room. I feel like that a
lot of women could identify with sort of like metaphorically
waiting to be asked to dance. And until then, I'm
just like on the bleachers hanging out. And what was
it like to begin taking yourself on dates? What how
do you think that freed you mentally? Let me just
start by saying, like I had a really dramatic thought
(33:10):
when you were talking, which is that our lives are
being stolen from us in a way. With that type
of thinking that when I get this job, when I
had what I used to think because I lived in
poverty for a very long time and I was taking
care of my sister, and like I thought, like when
I find good care for Edna and when I, you know,
can pay my rent, I'm going to be happy. And
(33:31):
it's like life is happening right here, right now. Life
is happening in the small moments, like we're having a conversation,
doesn't you know, Like this is awesome, And I think
like being able to be present and in the moment.
It's like when we actually get to live our full
lives that then inform like the relationship that we may
or may not find in the future. Like I just
(33:52):
feel it's really a sad way to live because we're
just moving through life and checking off boxes for who
and for what, like who right, it's just so someone
can see your post that you got married, It's like okay,
But like I said earlier about the like what is
it like when you go to the DNV or the
grocery store? Like I could post lovely pictures with my
(34:14):
last relationship, but then it like there was an incident
that happened and no one seeing that, and I'm not
going to go on Instagram and talk about that, you know,
And it's like talk about there's a picture of your
jacket in the river. Also, like the l a river
has no water, so it's like you just weave threw
it into like a driver ved it's like a thud.
(34:37):
Oh my god. I'd love for someone to post like
a picture of the best moment of their relationship versus
the worst moment of their relationship. Yeah, so it's like
this is us, like on vacation together. This is um
us at dinner when he didn't stick up for me
even though his friend told me to pay more money
on the check. Me smiling, right, right. But answer your
(35:00):
question though about like what was it like to like
start dating myself? And it's ultimately about freedom, like freedom
with myself and having like the silence. I mean, I
love silence so much. I just got a trip back
from a trip to Mexico City and I was by myself,
and I love doing whatever the funk I want to
do and not having to accommodate anyone else's schedule, and
(35:21):
like sometimes it give me lonely, like eating a meal
by yourself, but also sometimes it can be really beautiful,
and I like sitting in that discomfort is I think
actually really good for your soul and I think it's
really good for your brain to be like, oh this
is different, you know, like this is something new. And
also I think I realized that when I studied abroad
in college that like I went to dinner by myself,
(35:43):
and I was like, I would never do this back home,
Like I have to eat dinner, so I have to
go upy myself. But like here in l A, I
don't go to like a fancy restaurant sit alone. Why not?
But I think too when they when you make a
reservation and it's like just one or like when you
go to automake a reservation and automatically as two people,
like why can't it just be what? And taking out
(36:03):
the word just it's one person going for dinner. That's
not normal, you know, because we don't do it. But
it's actually really fun. And so I wanted to put
myself in circumstances that I wanted to do, like surfing,
and I was always like waiting for some man to
teach me or whatever. But I went by myself. And
when I did have a I did have a man
(36:24):
teaching me, but it wasn't like a date, so I
feel like it's different. Um, but it was so freeing
and I got to know myself and what I wanted
and what I had fun doing versus like having someone
else determine that for me. I love that. I I
stalked you on Instagram and saw that you went to
Mexico on a whim. Yeah, so can you just talk
(36:47):
about that because I it sounded like someone gave you
their hotel room or someone randomly had a free trip
to Mexico. Yeah. I know. My best friend, um Catherine,
she is a director, and she had she was shooting
umar RaaS for Disney Latin America and the shop got canceled.
So she was had this hotel room booked, and we
were at dinner Saturday night two weeks ago and she's like, yeah,
(37:10):
it's such a bummer. I have this beautiful hotel room
in Mexico City. And she's a new new mom and
she's like, we just came back from there and they
won't let me cancel it. So she's like, hey, you
should go to Mexico City. And I was like, well,
I have a dentist appointment and my dog has a
dentist appointment. I was like, then, wasn't we have a
couple's dentist appointment. Wouldn't that be so cute? Oh my god,
(37:30):
to each other, like reading magazines, Oh my god, that
would bring me so much joy. And I was like,
you know what, Yeah, I can go to Mexico City.
And so I just booked a plane ticket and flew
down there by myself and I was she had, I asked.
My main thing was getting around because I I don't
like taking Uber's here. I've had some really creepy uber
(37:52):
drivers and lift drivers before. I love it when it's
a woman driver because I just immediately feel safer. Um.
And she had had a private driver there, and so
I found out how much it was. It was literally
the most I paid each day. It was fifty five dollars,
which was crazy that uber's there are like two dollars. UM.
So I hired this private driver, Miguel, who was amazing,
(38:12):
and I felt so safe with him. And yeah, I
just my friend who was also very much like this
is why she's a director. She can like any problem
that's handed to her. She's like, yeah, no problem, we'll
fix that. We'll do this, Like she didn't even think.
She just says yes. And then I just flew off
to Mexico City and I had the time of my life.
(38:33):
This is very inspiring. It reminds me, and I think
it goes back to our topic in a way. There's
a Sylvia Plath quote I like where she talks about
this is a direct quote my consuming interest in men
in their lives, as often misconstrued as a desire to
seduce them or as an invitation to intimacy. Yet God,
I want to talk to everybody I can as deeply
as I can. I want to be able to sleep
(38:53):
in an open field, to travel west, to walk freely
at night. And I think what we get from men
sometimes is free to um like I'm safe because you
know this was preempted by her saying, you know, I
want to be part of a scene anonymous listening recording
all is spoiled by the fact that I am a girl,
a female, always in danger of assault and battery. It's like,
(39:15):
I want to be protected literally. I want to be
safe literally, And when you think about being with a man,
it's easier to have someone stick up for you than
it is to find your voice. And I think I
overrelied on men for this when in retrospect, what I
wanted to do was find my voice, was find a
(39:37):
way to stick up for myself, and I didn't know
that my life was there for the taking. For myself.
I don't mean someone was going to kill me, But
I think I think you're making a really good point though,
about the safety of it all. Like something that keeps
playing in my head is when I came back through
UM to the US through customs, the agent said to me,
(39:59):
how we're reaching in Mexico And I was like, oh,
it was the last one a vacation. He said, who
are you with? And I was like, oh, it is
by myself And he was like, oh, how was that?
And I was like, oh it was, you know fine.
I felt really safe, like I hired a private driver
and you know, I felt like really comfortable. And he
was like, oh, no, that's not what I was talking about,
you know, being by yourself, Like wasn't that boring? Like
that's what I like? How did you go out? And
(40:20):
I was just like, God, that's such a male perspective.
Like my first thought was no, I was safe, like
I was okay, and his was weren't you bored? Being alone?
(40:41):
That brings me to a quote that Devon pointed out
from medium essay that you wrote, which was, stability isn't
hanging on to someone else for dear life. It's standing
on your own through the discomfort. There's that saying two
heads are better than one. Well, not if one of
those heads is an idiot. Not only am I enough
on my own, I am better off, which is definitely
(41:02):
helping me right now. Currently, I just feel like we idolize,
idolize relationships, and then we're in one and we want
things our way or we want, you know, to do
the exist things a certain way, and we're stuck with
another's perspective. And if we don't trust or rely or respect,
(41:24):
that attitude is hard wanting to trust ourselves. And I
saying earlier about the having the silence, the alone time
with yourself to like giving yourself the time to figure
out what do I like, how do I want to
spend my time, what makes me feel good, what doesn't
make me feel good? And if you can determine that
on your own, then when you do meet someone or
you do want to date, you can articulate that because
(41:47):
it's not you have spent the time getting to know yourself,
you know, and like that's like I feel like that's
a lifelong process. But for me, I think, especially getting
married so young, like I didn't really know what I
liked and I I thought it was up to a
man to like, you know, keep me safe and do
all of these things, and and ultimately like it was
a huge betrayal to myself and like what my in
(42:11):
my life. What I've been learning is to recognize, like
when I do start to betray my feelings or like
not listen to my gut or that tiny voice that's
like I don't like the way where this is going.
But sometimes too, I think I try, I want to
understand why something isn't working. And I think something that's
been very freeing for me is to just to recognize
(42:33):
when something doesn't work, like it's not working. I don't
need to explain why. I don't need to. I might
not know in this moment. I might figure it out later.
I might not figure it out later, but in this moment,
it's not working for me, and I'm going to end
this relationship or I'm going to like leave this restaurant
because whatever whatever it is, to recognize it doesn't work.
And that's like so freeing, you know. No, I was
(42:58):
gonna say, like that is so helpful for me to hear,
because I feel like that's something I struggle with in
all of my past relationships and even in like non
romantic relationships where I I am like obsessed with like
figuring out why and like trying to control it. And
(43:18):
I think that comes from a fear of being alone
with myself like you're talking about, Like I've gotten to
places through doing like spiritual work and therapy and stuff
where I've been very comfortable being alone and like in
silence with myself, but I often am not in that place,
and the idea of being in silence with myself was
(43:39):
much scarier than hanging out with an idiot, you know.
Like I was like, well, I'd rather have a distraction,
Like I'd rather have a distraction. I'd rather do something.
I have to get out of her. I have to
get out of here. And I was going to ask if,
like you've noticed specific types of triggers that that make
you like want to cling to someone and not want
to be alone with yourself, and how you've learned to
(44:00):
like treat that, Like do you practice like meditating or
is there are there any tips you have for that
fear of being alone with yourself and how to like
sit through the discomfort instead of reaching out for something
else or someone else. I mean, I think for me,
it was really important to eliminate the alcohol in the beginning, because,
like I said earlier, like the alcohol was like it
(44:21):
was getting in the way, and that was the thing
that I used to reach to when I felt lonely
and I felt sad, and honestly, like the image that
came to me when you were asking that question is
laying in bed alone. And I think, like I in
my last relationship that I was in, like he was
a tall, very cuddly man, and like I loved laying
in bed with him and I slept better and it
(44:41):
was just like it felt really good. And now that
he's not in my life, it's like I'm alone in
bed again, but it feels different, Like I cuddle my
I put my pillows around me, and so I feel
like I still have a sense of something. I remember
one time my therapist said, like, get a body pillow.
I still haven't done it, and she's like, not, I'm
not too sun flip, but get a body pillow, and
(45:02):
I will order one after this um. But I think
it's like it is just genuinely sitting through the discomfort
because eventually the discomfort goes away. Like I think in
sitting through that it is healing because there's no fix
to it. It's like that relationship ended and it's sad
and I have to allow myself to a grieve it.
And I did that and then like something else opened
(45:24):
up for me, you know, Like that's how life works, Devin.
We have to stop there because this conversation is obviously
something to be savored. I don't drink, and I never
liked beer that much, but I have a feeling with
this conversation like some hipster men feel about like I
p a s where I just want to drink it slowly.
I want to enjoy it. Some people sip one glass
(45:46):
of whiskey all through a night. And this is how
I feel about this conversation. It's precious to me. I
love it. I did not want to truncate it. We
recorded for about two hours with Jeanie, so we are
going to continue, you apart two with a Year without
Men next week. And I am not going to do
(46:06):
with this conversation what I do with my Halloween candy
every year, which is that I always say, Okay, I'm
going to save some people's Halloween candy last the whole year.
It's true. I can do that. I can make mine
last the whole year and then eating it all in
a matter of hours. I'm not going to do that
with this conversation. I'm going to let it last I'm
so excited. I'm so honored that was willing to be
(46:27):
so vulnerable with us, and I've never um I've known
her for a while, but I've never heard so many
parts of her story. I really think that she has
such a helpful perspective, and I'm so excited for her
to continue sharing it with us next week, So state
see all there bye. It's such area true, it's surromantic.
(47:11):
Love me, baby, don't leave me hanging. I want true
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow
and this is Devin Learry. My dog is snoring his
little face off in the corner. And it's so funny
with dogs because they really don't help with anything, Like
they don't help with and yet they're so tired and
they sometimes seem stressed out, and I'm like, you have
(00:37):
nothing to worry about. Well, sometimes I think that. Other
times I'm like, maybe you're just seeing things that we
don't see. As many people know and many people don't.
There was a ghost in the house I grew up in.
She was a woman who were Victorian era clothing. I
(00:58):
don't know, like that's that's as far as we know
about her. But the dogs did always see her and
their hair did rise up at the sight of her.
So that's when I learned dogs are seeing things I
don't see at all times. And so even though in
my house growing up, it was kind of a constant
chorus of like, hey, stop barking, Hey, there's nothing there,
(01:20):
there's nothing there, it's like, was there nothing there? Or
were the dogs like okay, so you're saying there's nothing there,
and yet I saw a shadow and there was nothing
where the shadow for the shadow to be reflected. So
I'm not seeing where you're correct in saying there's nothing
to be barking at right now. Like I think they're
actually on a higher plane. I think you're right about that.
(01:42):
The Victoria air clothing reminds me of a time years
ago when when you were in the Victorian era and
you wore roughly callers. I'm gonna go to a past
life quickly and um talk about that. No. I was
in the Berkshires for a film shoot and the whole
crew was staying at this hotel. I described it as
(02:03):
the kind of hotel where if we had left and
told people we had stayed there, I could totally imagine
someone being like that place burned down for thirty years ago,
Like it was very spooky looking, and we were the
only people there can be like wait, you're Bruce Willis
and you're dead, and you're like, oh my god. So
(02:28):
we asked the receptionist are there any ghosts here? And
he said no, and then he paused and said, well,
there has been one sighting of a child in Victoria.
Where it is there it is. And Linda Cardilini was
with us and for a hot second, we thought because
(02:51):
she was the one who told us about the ghost,
and so we were very scared, and we thought about
hiring a child actor to dressed in Victoria eraic clubbing
and aid for her in her room. But then we
thought that that no, that that could be traumatizing, that scary,
that's over the top. Children. Ghosts are actually the most
terrifying the idea possible. This woman that is a friend
(03:15):
of my mom's told us this story about this haunted
apartment in l A that was on her block, and
she once a year approximately she would see a family
move in and then they would move out because of
the haunting. And the one story that she told us
shakes me to my core even when I think about
it right now, which is that they this family, that
(03:38):
this person who lived there, who she she went up
to and when he was in his moving truck, told
her the story. He came home, there was a layer
of what looked like soot or ash or dust, like
a grayish substance all over the floor and walls. When
he comes home, Nope, and what happens, a little gust
(03:58):
of wind occur us blows the dust. It kind of
like ripples across the floor and leaves the outline of
a baby rattle. Are you screaming? Are you crying? Because
that is what I would be doing if I saw
the outline of a baby rattle. And I'm trying to
(04:19):
think of what the outline of a baby rattle looked like. Well,
it's sinister. I'll tell you that we're gonna bring on
our guest little early today because I know she's going
to have some thoughts on our first topic of discussion,
which is the Bachelor in Paradise finale. I know we're
a little late, but we're gonna make it worth it
with the quality of our commentary, not the timing of
our commentary. So our guest today is a friend of mine,
(04:41):
a friend crush of Carolina's. She's a writer, creator, dog mom,
and her name is Genie Bergen. Welcome, Jeanie. Thank you
so much for having me. I'm so excited. Thanks for
being here. I'm so excited to have you here. I
met Genie at work. For the listeners who don't know, um,
I got a friend to crush on her because she's
(05:01):
so funny and insightful and just emanates empathy and also
has like the most cynical, dark sense of humor, which
is such a good combo, like just like a really kind,
caring person who also laughs at the most fucked up
stuff that I could ever imagine coming out of I
think that you are very similar. Really, yes, thanks, all right,
(05:24):
let's talk about me actually instead of so what if
we're going to today anyway? Um, more about my past
with the ghost in my house? Okay, So I cyberstocked
Genie obviously because we worked together, and I was like, wait,
what's her life like, Like, what what does she do
on the weekends? What is she into? And then I
(05:44):
found that she had this Instagram account called a Year
Without Men. Obviously I'm intrigued. Obviously, I'm dying to find
out more. And now I finally have my opportunity to
ask you about your life, Genie. Thank you. Yeah, my
little my little Year without Men. It's like I only
have like two followers or something, which is kind of
fine because I feel like I divulge so much that
(06:06):
I'm like, I just want to keep it small. It's
very it's very vulnerable, which I love. It's also like
beautifully written, like I feel like it could be put
into a book. Well, that's my plan, but you have
to have like whatever. We'll get into later, yes, but like, yeah,
that's my plan. I hope to read it on pages
one day. But before we get into that year without Men,
(06:29):
we're going to talk about a beach full of men,
Bachelor Paradise. The finale thoughts reactions. We had three engagements
and Kenny and Marie, Joe and Serena. I'm just naming
it out loud. Okay, what what we're What were your thoughts, Genie,
(06:50):
your first response, first ideas on watching this beautiful piece
of television. My thought is that Marissa and Riley should
have been prom king and prom queen, genuinely in love,
wonderful people. It seems not to say that anyone else isn't,
but like they just they are like the true Yes
(07:11):
that's not even a phrase, but like they're like the
true couple of that show. And like Joe and Serena
is super cute, Joe is like charming, but I feel
like his chemistry with Serena. Like I love that I'm
saying this, Like this is just people on TV. I
haven't I don't even know them or whatever, but like
I feel like Joe and Kendall have so much chemistry,
and I just don't see that with Joe and Serena.
(07:33):
Like they're cute, but like, who wouldn't be cute with
Joe's I love Joe and I can't even tell you
how much I would throw myself at him if I
was ever at a party with him in college or
something like. He is so my type. But what I'll
say about Joe is that I feel like he's one
of those guys who pretends he doesn't know how charming
(07:53):
he is, but he knows how charming he is, which
always makes me suspect. I don't really I don't necessarily
suspect him. I just think the idea of like this
ten year age gap working, and I don't know, it
just seems seven. You really got to look at the mirror. Yeah,
(08:14):
and I've been in ten year age gaps and they
didn't work. That's what I'm saying. Like I think she's
so young. Of course he's charming, but is he that
like intellectually stimulating. I don't know. And I just feel
like she seems like mature for her age. I just
feel like eventually she's going to get to the point.
Speaking from personal experience where you're sitting across the dinner
(08:34):
table and you're like, there's nothing you can say that
will be interesting to me, and so like, let's just
not talk. I don't know. I okay. So I'm going
to go back on everything I said by also saying
that I am at a point in my life where
I'm a very easy crier, and Marie and Kenney don't
really do that much for me. Um, but Morris and
(08:54):
Riley and Serena and Joe made me tear up a
couple of times. And to go back to Marsus and
Riley for a second, there's a point where Riley gives
a stunningly beautiful monologue where he talks about how you
know he they both want big families, they both want
a blissful domestic life. And Riley says, you know, I
(09:16):
have the spantasy to be at Sunday morning about letting
my wife sleep in and going to make breakfast for
my daughter and making whatever she wants and spoiling her,
and then my wife will wake up and we'll all
play together. And then looks at her and says, when
I look at you, I see Sunday morning. I have
chills on my body right now. And I love her
(09:38):
reaction because she was like, oh my god, I know
she was like Okay, let's just go right now, like literally,
let's go. I would have felt the same exact way. Also,
I loved when the in a previous episode when she
talked to him about like him needing to open up
and he talked about his family history. She was so
(10:01):
like caring and gentle with him and being like I
I see you, and I see the struggles you've been
through and I love you. Like it just was such
a lesson in like how to listen to someone I
felt like, and he clearly felt so safe with her
to like open up, and I just thought, like, normally
those conversations on this show are like I need you
to open up, and the persons like, okay, I really
(10:22):
like you and I see myself falling in love with you,
and they're like, I'm so grateful that he opened up
to me tonight. But this was like a real conversation
where he probably unload so much trauma. Taitia on her
season was like I need you to open up to me,
and this guy was like okay, um I was suicidal,
and she was like thank you. So much for opening
up to me. Yeah, She's like, this is what I've
been looking for from you. I was like, wait, what
(10:44):
the fuck is going on? I know, what did you
guys think of Becca and Thomas breakup slash reunion on
Instagram where they revealed they're actually still together. Thomas is
quoting Grey's Anatomy and this episode, wait when Okay, So,
first of all, I don't even think it's quoting to
(11:05):
Gray's Anatomy. When someone says like you're my person, Like
I feel like that's become a part of the general lexicon,
Like I I think that, like I would say that
and forget that it had to do with Gray's Anatomy.
But Shanna Rhymes is so much of a great American
mind at this point that will be quoting her without realizing.
But Thomas at one point when he's like leaving and
(11:27):
Becca runs after him, which is like such a great
dramatic moment, like Thomas running in her strong across the beach,
and when she sees him, he's like, have faith in us,
choose us, fight for us, be with us. And I
was even listening to Becca's podcast later where Tea was
a guest. I've been very, very obsessed with the season
(11:48):
and TIA's like it kind of reminded me of Grey's Anatomy. Yeah,
and I didn't say anything. I love Tia. She was
the one that got away. I just saw this poson.
I think it might have been Redect Tress or something,
but it was like, he's not hot, He's just tall.
And I feel like, I'm so sorry, Like Thomas is
a good looking man, but also like I feel like
(12:09):
to go back to what you're saying about Joe, the
intellectual stimulation, Like I don't get Thomas, I don't get Kenny,
Like what are they bringing to the table. Nothing. I
don't understand it. Like Thomas is very tall, and I
understand like what it feels so good to be in
a tall man's arms that I think you allow yourself
to like erase how boring they are. It's like, oh,
(12:33):
I just want to be in their arms, you know.
I totally know. And I did go on a few
hinge dates with a six ft ten person, and I
did constantly ask myself that question of like how much
of it? Yes, all right, We've talked about this before.
That's what I struggle most with on these shows is
is anyone actually able to have an interesting conversation? Like,
(12:57):
is anyone actually funny? Is anyone actually reading our nicles?
Having reading articles on the beach? Are going to pass
the reconciliation bill. Noah seemed a little more intellectual than
the others. I thought, my obsession with Noah has permeated
my dreams. He's permeated my unconscious I had a dream
(13:17):
about him last night. Final thoughts, anyone, Okay, I have
so many final thoughts. First of all, Joe and Serena,
I do get. I do see the chemistry sometimes, like
sometimes their conversation comes easy. Mari and Kenny, they actually
both seemed to be really into each other, like the
moment I go back to is Um a few episodes
ago when they got back together and she said I
(13:37):
would leave with you today Rose or no Rose, and
he said me too. So I was like, there's obviously
something there because they are willing to go potentially off
TV to be together. But they don't really talk. They
don't really taketeen years older than her and she seems
like fine with it. But that is true, that is crazy. Um, Yeah,
they don't really talk. I don't I haven't caught any
(14:00):
I haven't picked up on any information about either of
them as people, like I haven't heard them talk about
anything about themselves, but maybe, like to boring, people should
be together. So Abigail and Noah ended up being together
in real life. Thank god. I was so happy about this,
and they put a lot of great Instagram reels on
(14:23):
both of their accounts of them literally making out under waterfalls.
I was like, oh my god, this looks so nice.
And there was something about it like that she left
New York to be with him at least part time
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which I was like, so that is love.
But Devin, a part of me is like, Okay, I
mean all three of us are writers in l A.
(14:45):
I feel like, don't you at times with how hard
this industry is to be like, sure, I'll go marry
a nurse and Tulsa, Oklahoma. That kind of sounds nicely
on that way. Yeah, absolutely not. Also, why is it
though I understand why Kendall didn't want to move to
be like I mean, it's it's sad, but it's like
(15:06):
that the only thing keeping them apart was the location.
But I would have a very hard time leaving my
life for a person who lives in Tulsa, Oklama. Yeah, right,
depend for me, I could do Chicago one pent I
could do a lot of places. Um. And I do
think that I always think that there was something deeper
(15:28):
with with Kendall and Joe because too, I'm just like,
really like, you couldn't make that work. I think if
you really felt like this was the person you want
to spend the rest of your life with, you would
have moved to Chicago or Joe would have like made
l A work somehow. I actually like have told myself
that a lot when I have to go to l
A for work and I'm like, I just wish that
(15:49):
I didn't have to be in l A to get
jobs in this industry. It's annoying. And then I'm like, wow,
the other option could be like someone who has to
move to a place like Tulsa. I'm very happy for
all the couples. I'm just excited to see who lasts.
I love watching I love the Claren Dale drama. I
I just I've never been to the this is the
first time I've even watched Bachelor in Paradise. And I think,
(16:12):
and we'll get into this um with your year about
without Manginie. But I think because I've been single for
a year and a half maybe almost two years, and
I have talked about how like I'm not really datable
right now in my life, just I don't have room
for a partner right now, and I kind of I'm
(16:34):
getting this like vicarious. It's sort of like when I
got sober, I would sort of get vicariously drunk through
the Jersey shorecast and now I feel like I'm vicariously
dating through these shows because you'll you'll sort of have
the same internal monolock you would if you run a
date like why did he say that that was so weird?
Or like maybe they don't have chemistry, maybe they do,
(16:55):
or the best being like oh my god, they're kissing
under a waterfall. Oh my god, that looks so nice,
and I feel like that satiates me. I do wish
though I will say, like I understand the waterfall on
the Instagram at all, but like I want to see
like what they're like, what is what is it like
when they go to the d m V. What is
it like when they have to like a really long line,
or what does grocery shopping look like? And like what
(17:17):
does life really look like? And I feel like that's
the part that we don't see and it's not always
the fun part. But that's why like more like docuseries.
I like to balance it out with like docuseries like
Love in the Spectrum or even like dating around you see,
like it's less produced and more like the actual people interacting,
which I feel is also I don't know, it's a
(17:39):
good balance. Well also because now you say that it's
it's a reminder that those are the situations that kind
of test couples weirdly, like what are you like when
money is low? You know? Or what do you like
when we rented a vacation house and it sucks? Or
you know, what are you like these situations? I think
(18:00):
that there's so much to be said for how people's
attitudes run together now that this now that we're going
in this direction. Have either of you watched Married at
First Sight? I have not, but I've heard about it.
It's a little more doc you style, because um, it's
not there's no competition or anything. It's just like these
(18:22):
people get married and they've never met. It's like an
arranged marriage basically. And then the crew follows them and
sets up all these things for them, Like, now they're
going to move in together, what's that going to be?
Like now they're gonna have to have like a party
for the other person's family and see how that goes.
And then you know stuff like that. Anyway, just give it,
(18:44):
give it a think. See if you want to engage.
I'm gonna give it a big old think. Yeah, we're
going to take a quick commercial break, and then we
are going to be back asking Jeanie about her A
Year Without Men. Stay tuned, and we're back with true romance. Jeanie,
(19:10):
you have a project called A Year Without Men? And
Devin told me this and immediately I was interested. When
did you come up with this? What prompted you? And um,
can you tell us a little bit about it? Sure?
So it was at the end of which leading wasn't
was kind of good time exactly And people have said that,
(19:34):
and I think that was actually like the best timing
for my mental health because I think put us all
under like, um, I don't know a spotlight of like
what we were actually dealing with and like what tools
we had to like manage our lives and like take
care of ourselves. Anyway, it was the end of and
I went through and I have been dating, like I've
(19:56):
been writing about dating for a long time. Like I
I got married and I was twenty four, which is
so young, Like we were talking about Serena and Joe earlier,
and like I just am a completely different person than
I was at age thirty seven than I was when
I was twenty four, Like I have my own voice,
like I speak up for myself, Like that was not
the case when I got married. Like I think I
(20:18):
was looking for like a man to take care of
me and to have safety and a man, which I
think is a lot of Like sadly, it sounds so antiquated,
but I think it's still part of the narrative. Like
you were just talking about what about yes, yeah, like
married at first sight, Like our culture, like the marriage
we put so much fucking weight Unlike sorry, I don't
even know if you can swear, but like you guys
are so kind, but like so much pressure on marriage
(20:44):
and it's like anyway, whatever, I got married when I
was twenty four, and so my first experience, like really
dating didn't happen until I was and it was like okay, Cupid,
like online dating. And at first, when I started writing
about dating, I was like coming at it from you know,
it's easy to be cynical and like make fun of
like online dating profiles or whatever, and like sometimes you
(21:06):
have to because people are not so Like I had
this blog called Genie does the Internet, and I would
like make fun of these like crazy messages that I
would get um and it was really fun. But then
something about like I think it's part of growing up,
Like it wasn't serving me anymore, Like it didn't feel
good to make fun of someone who wrote me a
message with like what I thought was too many emojis, Like, oh,
(21:28):
how's tartesting? He's sending me a flower emoji? Who was this? Fuck?
Like honestly, Like, I mean, that's not my thing. My
friend used to get these flower emojis from the sky
and she was like, oh my god, he sent me
a flower, and like he didn't send you a flower,
He sent you an emoji head no effort into this.
What are why are you impressed he sent what? Like
(21:51):
the things we accept is like anyway, this is a
long story to get to the place that I was
at in twenty nineteen, was I had been online dating
for like five six years, like had met some people,
but I met this person who it was like a
whirlwind romance in like two weeks. I later found out
it was love bombing. Like it was just like, oh
(22:13):
my god, like we we met for coffee and then
it turned into like an eight hour date until like
even though I thought he was very handsome, I wanted
to get away from him. And I was like, Okay,
I'm gonna go get my nails done now, I'll see
you later. And he was like, oh, I could go
for a manicure, and so he goes and gets his
nails done with me, and I think, like, oh my god,
this is what I've always wanted, a man who's like
(22:33):
comfortable enough to go get his nails done. Because so
many men can we just say, Can I just say,
do not take care of their hands and feet? Yes,
every single one I've ever known. Yes, it's maybe teeth also,
but like I've been scratched by men before, like not
in a way now in the hot way, like can
(22:54):
you trim your fingernails? Can you do that? For all
of society? Anyway, I went in the state with this guy.
He ends up going to get his Nailson with me,
and then for the next two weeks, I was like,
we're getting married. Like we spent all of our time
together and then I was at the time also drinking
too much, and so I and he was sober and
so like I would drink too much and text him
even though like I knew I shouldn't be doing that,
(23:15):
but I was like using the alcohol to like let
myself do something that I knew was bad for me. Um.
And that's all to say that it didn't work out.
We did not get married. He ended up being a
horrible person in the end. I asked for my jacket back,
like when my last time going over to his place
(23:35):
to cook up with him, and he was like, oh,
I threw an l a river, what the fuck? And
he this was his sense of humor, like he thought,
I know that. I'm like, okay, that was either a joke,
but it's like that's what they do. They like say
these horrible things and oh I'm funny. And that was
like part of my because I would push back on
him because he'd be like, oh, he'd make fun of me,
(23:56):
and I was like, hey, that doesn't work for me,
Like you may talk, you made talk to your friends
like that. But it doesn't. I don't appreciate being made
fun of um. And like my relationships is my friends.
We don't make fun of each other, like we support
each other. Like there's teasing, of course, like I think
that should exist in any relationship, but I'd like you
to take note. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm taking notes. Sorry,
(24:21):
go ahead. Like one of the things he made fun
of me about was where I lived. And at that point,
like I lived like mid City and this apartment that
you know, I had been living with a roommate before,
and I moved to this square foot like to better
apartment that wasn't maybe in the best neighborhood, but was gorgeous,
and I felt like I have a home and I
have my own space, and this feels really good to me.
(24:41):
And the first time he came over, he said something
about the neighborhood and he was like making fun of me,
and I was like, I finally said to him, I
was like, you know what, I've worked really hard to
live here and to pay my rent and to like,
you know, get by, and you making fun of my
home is not that doesn't make me feel good. You know,
and the whole thing about like I'm joking, like it
doesn't better, Like it isn't the intention behind it. It's
(25:03):
like you're causing me harm and I'm vocalizing that to you. Anyway.
That's all to say, this guy spurred my need to
eliminate alcohol. Follow up, I took like nine months off
of drinking, and now I will have a glass of
wine every now and again and and all that. But
I eliminated alcohol and I was like, this isn't working
for me, Like I've been online dating doing this disaster
(25:28):
for like eight years and it's not working. So I'm
gonna take some time off. And I did that in
the beginning of it started with January one, and it
wasn't my friend you were going to say, started with
January six. Yeah, So after I saw men on January
six turned me off of them for a long time.
(25:48):
Oh my god. Honestly, I would not be surprised if
my ex husband was part of that group. I have
access as well, who I would not be surprised. Yeah,
But let's all to say. My friend Michael was so
sweet about it. He was like, does that mean me too?
And I was like, no, Michael, it does not mean
you get rid of like from my life. It was
(26:12):
so cute, um, but I was like, Okay, I'm going
to take myself on dates because my biggest thing too
with men is the type of men I was dating.
They couldn't plan a date to save their fucking life.
And I'm like, make a dinner reservation. Like if someone
made a dinner reservation, which this guy did, the l
a river Jacket guy. He made a reservation at a
(26:32):
vegan restaurant. I was like, okay, like he's really got
it together. And you think about how easy that is,
and it's the simplest thing, but I feel like some
people just do not make any effort at all. That
one person comes along and makes a reservation, You're like,
that's it. They've got to be my husband whatever. I've
heard someone compare it to like two people holding a
couch and it's like sometimes the other person will drop
(26:55):
the couch and you'll think that you can hold the
other side of it totally, even though you just can't
carry your couch that way. And that's sort of being
a metaphor for a relationship. Men doing the bare minimum
has been something that women have put up with for millennium. Yeah,
and like I what you were saying about love bombing.
I have had that in a relationship where at the
beginning was so overwhelming with like surprise dates. But it's like,
(27:19):
actually that stuff wasn't that amazing, you know. It was
like it wasn't like he was actually listening to me
and understanding me in a way like that would have
been more meaningful, but at the time it felt like
these like flashy things. And then once that phase is
over in kind of a narcissistic dynamic, then it's like
total devaluation nothingness and you're just like wait what Then
(27:44):
you immediately or at least I did, put it on
yourself like oh I must have done something wrong because
now like all of that's gone. What happened? Um? And
then also because they make you feel so like seen
in those eight hour long dates, like you're talking about
where you're like, okay, you're divulging all this stuff, and
they kind of like manipulate you into feeling like you
(28:05):
can trust them. Then when they start to like devalue you,
like you're saying with the comment about like where you're living,
it feels all the more painful because you're like but
this was the person who shined their light on me,
and I thought like, this was the person who had
chosen me, and if they think this about me, it
must be true because they're already dug in so deep.
I dated someone who would like intimate that I was lazy,
(28:27):
like just say stuff like oh my gosh, of course
you didn't do that in time, or of course you
didn't read that, and Janie I at the same moment
as you were. One day, it suddenly flipped and I
just looked over at him and I was like, I
actually work really hard. And I remember that feeling of
being like, yeah, what are you talking about, Like you
think I don't do anything and it's just sad to
(28:50):
me though that that took a second for me to
register that at first. Again, like Devin is saying, I
felt like, oh, yeah, you just know me super well. Yeah,
you're right, like I'm lazy, I don't enough. And there's
this speaking of Reductress, a great headline that was like
woman with four jobs is being super lazy or something
like that, and it's like, Yeah, I actually beat up
(29:10):
on myself a lot, as do nearly all women I know,
and so why am I going to invite someone else
to do that, and also that's on him, like that's
his ship, and I think, who do that? Like I
would never speak to someone like that, Like I think
it's so whatever that guy had going on, like he
had some pain, you know, and it's not to excuse it,
(29:33):
but it's like that's his ship and he's putting it
on you. But then if like just speaking from my perspective,
like I just was working with at this wonderful coach
or name is Karen Brown, and it's like one of
my core things that I've been carrying with me for
my whole life. And I think a lot of people
do is what's wrong with me? Like what's wrong with me? Why?
Why don't I have love? Why don't I have this?
(29:55):
Like what is wrong with me that this person doesn't
love me? Or this person is treating me a way?
And it's like men who say stuff like that to you,
like you're being lazy, Like nothing's wrong with me? Something
with you, dude, Like I'm not being lazy, like anyway,
I just no, that's so helpful. And I also it
reminds me of what would I do if a friend
(30:18):
said something like that, you know, like Why do I
give this low bar for how a partner would treat
me when, like you said, like I would never say
that to a friend. Yeah. One of my favorite aspects
of the Year Without Men idea is in the first
post you have on the Year Without Men Instagram account,
which is at a year without men. By the way,
(30:38):
you say, what I mean by a year without men
is that I'm going to date me for the next year,
take myself on dates and little adventures that I'm always
saying I would do if only I had a partner.
I'm tired of not living my life to the fullest
because I'm waiting for someone else to live it with me,
which I love because I feel like, as you were saying,
with all this emphasis on marriage, that that show like
(31:00):
The Bachelor are based around, and like pretty much everything
in our culture is based around, and it's become kind
of this like capitalist monster of like when are you
getting married? Like they're like by a certain age and
then what are you gonna do next? And like, I
don't know I even notice it. Weirdly, people's like relationship
posts get so many likes it's really weird. Do you
(31:21):
know what I'm talking about? Like people want to like
people are ready to like celebrate the union of our
relationship and like and wait to see what happens next
in it, and like why aren't they and getting it's
like this very bizarre thing. I am a part of that,
though I feel like I'm a part of the problem.
I get a conditioned to be yes exactly like I
want to post about a relationship. I want people to
(31:42):
think that I'm happy and love and that and in
this really dark way that I'm like super lovable and
in fact, the thing that turned me off of it
recently was seeing Elizabeth when we did our Elizabeth Holmes episodes,
seeing her partner posts so much about her, I was like,
this is gross. Yeah, something I've been thinking about a lot.
And Genie, I wanted to ask about the dates that
(32:05):
you took yourself on, because I do think with our
emphasis on marriage, our emphasis on relationships, that we think
our life will begin once blank happens. And I think
that especially applies to boyfriend. I think that especially applies
to having a husband, but I also think that applies
to getting a certain job, making a certain amount of money,
(32:27):
by getting a house, you know, like then my real
life begins and and it's something that I it's a
thinking rut that I get stuck in a lot, a lot,
a lot a lot like daily even you know, when
will I meet the person where I can begin my life? Really?
But then my life starts and there's this sense of
(32:48):
being in a waiting room. I feel like that a
lot of women could identify with sort of like metaphorically
waiting to be asked to dance. And until then, I'm
just like on the bleachers hanging out. And what was
it like to begin taking yourself on dates? What how
do you think that freed you mentally? Let me just
start by saying, like I had a really dramatic thought
(33:10):
when you were talking, which is that our lives are
being stolen from us in a way. With that type
of thinking that when I get this job, when I
had what I used to think because I lived in
poverty for a very long time and I was taking
care of my sister, and like I thought, like when
I find good care for Edna and when I, you know,
can pay my rent, I'm going to be happy. And
(33:31):
it's like life is happening right here, right now. Life
is happening in the small moments, like we're having a conversation,
doesn't you know, Like this is awesome, And I think
like being able to be present and in the moment.
It's like when we actually get to live our full
lives that then inform like the relationship that we may
or may not find in the future. Like I just
(33:52):
feel it's really a sad way to live because we're
just moving through life and checking off boxes for who
and for what, like who right, it's just so someone
can see your post that you got married, It's like okay,
But like I said earlier about the like what is
it like when you go to the DNV or the
grocery store? Like I could post lovely pictures with my
(34:14):
last relationship, but then it like there was an incident
that happened and no one seeing that, and I'm not
going to go on Instagram and talk about that, you know,
And it's like talk about there's a picture of your
jacket in the river. Also, like the l a river
has no water, so it's like you just weave threw
it into like a driver ved it's like a thud.
(34:37):
Oh my god. I'd love for someone to post like
a picture of the best moment of their relationship versus
the worst moment of their relationship. Yeah, so it's like
this is us, like on vacation together. This is um
us at dinner when he didn't stick up for me
even though his friend told me to pay more money
on the check. Me smiling, right, right. But answer your
(35:00):
question though about like what was it like to like
start dating myself? And it's ultimately about freedom, like freedom
with myself and having like the silence. I mean, I
love silence so much. I just got a trip back
from a trip to Mexico City and I was by myself,
and I love doing whatever the funk I want to
do and not having to accommodate anyone else's schedule, and
(35:21):
like sometimes it give me lonely, like eating a meal
by yourself, but also sometimes it can be really beautiful,
and I like sitting in that discomfort is I think
actually really good for your soul and I think it's
really good for your brain to be like, oh this
is different, you know, like this is something new. And
also I think I realized that when I studied abroad
in college that like I went to dinner by myself,
(35:43):
and I was like, I would never do this back home,
Like I have to eat dinner, so I have to
go upy myself. But like here in l A, I
don't go to like a fancy restaurant sit alone. Why not?
But I think too when they when you make a
reservation and it's like just one or like when you
go to automake a reservation and automatically as two people,
like why can't it just be what? And taking out
(36:03):
the word just it's one person going for dinner. That's
not normal, you know, because we don't do it. But
it's actually really fun. And so I wanted to put
myself in circumstances that I wanted to do, like surfing,
and I was always like waiting for some man to
teach me or whatever. But I went by myself. And
when I did have a I did have a man
(36:24):
teaching me, but it wasn't like a date, so I
feel like it's different. Um, but it was so freeing
and I got to know myself and what I wanted
and what I had fun doing versus like having someone
else determine that for me. I love that. I I
stalked you on Instagram and saw that you went to
Mexico on a whim. Yeah, so can you just talk
(36:47):
about that because I it sounded like someone gave you
their hotel room or someone randomly had a free trip
to Mexico. Yeah. I know. My best friend, um Catherine,
she is a director, and she had she was shooting
umar RaaS for Disney Latin America and the shop got canceled.
So she was had this hotel room booked, and we
were at dinner Saturday night two weeks ago and she's like, yeah,
(37:10):
it's such a bummer. I have this beautiful hotel room
in Mexico City. And she's a new new mom and
she's like, we just came back from there and they
won't let me cancel it. So she's like, hey, you
should go to Mexico City. And I was like, well,
I have a dentist appointment and my dog has a
dentist appointment. I was like, then, wasn't we have a
couple's dentist appointment. Wouldn't that be so cute? Oh my god,
(37:30):
to each other, like reading magazines, Oh my god, that
would bring me so much joy. And I was like,
you know what, Yeah, I can go to Mexico City.
And so I just booked a plane ticket and flew
down there by myself and I was she had, I asked.
My main thing was getting around because I I don't
like taking Uber's here. I've had some really creepy uber
(37:52):
drivers and lift drivers before. I love it when it's
a woman driver because I just immediately feel safer. Um.
And she had had a private driver there, and so
I found out how much it was. It was literally
the most I paid each day. It was fifty five dollars,
which was crazy that uber's there are like two dollars. UM.
So I hired this private driver, Miguel, who was amazing,
(38:12):
and I felt so safe with him. And yeah, I
just my friend who was also very much like this
is why she's a director. She can like any problem
that's handed to her. She's like, yeah, no problem, we'll
fix that. We'll do this, Like she didn't even think.
She just says yes. And then I just flew off
to Mexico City and I had the time of my life.
(38:33):
This is very inspiring. It reminds me, and I think
it goes back to our topic in a way. There's
a Sylvia Plath quote I like where she talks about
this is a direct quote my consuming interest in men
in their lives, as often misconstrued as a desire to
seduce them or as an invitation to intimacy. Yet God,
I want to talk to everybody I can as deeply
as I can. I want to be able to sleep
(38:53):
in an open field, to travel west, to walk freely
at night. And I think what we get from men
sometimes is free to um like I'm safe because you
know this was preempted by her saying, you know, I
want to be part of a scene anonymous listening recording
all is spoiled by the fact that I am a girl,
a female, always in danger of assault and battery. It's like,
(39:15):
I want to be protected literally. I want to be
safe literally, And when you think about being with a man,
it's easier to have someone stick up for you than
it is to find your voice. And I think I
overrelied on men for this when in retrospect, what I
wanted to do was find my voice, was find a
(39:37):
way to stick up for myself, and I didn't know
that my life was there for the taking. For myself.
I don't mean someone was going to kill me, But
I think I think you're making a really good point though,
about the safety of it all. Like something that keeps
playing in my head is when I came back through
UM to the US through customs, the agent said to me,
(39:59):
how we're reaching in Mexico And I was like, oh,
it was the last one a vacation. He said, who
are you with? And I was like, oh, it is
by myself And he was like, oh, how was that?
And I was like, oh it was, you know fine.
I felt really safe, like I hired a private driver
and you know, I felt like really comfortable. And he
was like, oh, no, that's not what I was talking about,
you know, being by yourself, Like wasn't that boring? Like
that's what I like? How did you go out? And
(40:20):
I was just like, God, that's such a male perspective.
Like my first thought was no, I was safe, like
I was okay, and his was weren't you bored? Being alone?
(40:41):
That brings me to a quote that Devon pointed out
from medium essay that you wrote, which was, stability isn't
hanging on to someone else for dear life. It's standing
on your own through the discomfort. There's that saying two
heads are better than one. Well, not if one of
those heads is an idiot. Not only am I enough
on my own, I am better off, which is definitely
(41:02):
helping me right now. Currently, I just feel like we idolize,
idolize relationships, and then we're in one and we want
things our way or we want, you know, to do
the exist things a certain way, and we're stuck with
another's perspective. And if we don't trust or rely or respect,
(41:24):
that attitude is hard wanting to trust ourselves. And I
saying earlier about the having the silence, the alone time
with yourself to like giving yourself the time to figure
out what do I like, how do I want to
spend my time, what makes me feel good, what doesn't
make me feel good? And if you can determine that
on your own, then when you do meet someone or
you do want to date, you can articulate that because
(41:47):
it's not you have spent the time getting to know yourself,
you know, and like that's like I feel like that's
a lifelong process. But for me, I think, especially getting
married so young, like I didn't really know what I
liked and I I thought it was up to a
man to like, you know, keep me safe and do
all of these things, and and ultimately like it was
a huge betrayal to myself and like what my in
(42:11):
my life. What I've been learning is to recognize, like
when I do start to betray my feelings or like
not listen to my gut or that tiny voice that's
like I don't like the way where this is going.
But sometimes too, I think I try, I want to
understand why something isn't working. And I think something that's
been very freeing for me is to just to recognize
(42:33):
when something doesn't work, like it's not working. I don't
need to explain why. I don't need to. I might
not know in this moment. I might figure it out later.
I might not figure it out later, but in this moment,
it's not working for me, and I'm going to end
this relationship or I'm going to like leave this restaurant
because whatever whatever it is, to recognize it doesn't work.
And that's like so freeing, you know. No, I was
(42:58):
gonna say, like that is so helpful for me to hear,
because I feel like that's something I struggle with in
all of my past relationships and even in like non
romantic relationships where I I am like obsessed with like
figuring out why and like trying to control it. And
(43:18):
I think that comes from a fear of being alone
with myself like you're talking about, Like I've gotten to
places through doing like spiritual work and therapy and stuff
where I've been very comfortable being alone and like in
silence with myself, but I often am not in that place,
and the idea of being in silence with myself was
(43:39):
much scarier than hanging out with an idiot, you know.
Like I was like, well, I'd rather have a distraction,
Like I'd rather have a distraction. I'd rather do something.
I have to get out of her. I have to
get out of here. And I was going to ask if,
like you've noticed specific types of triggers that that make
you like want to cling to someone and not want
to be alone with yourself, and how you've learned to
(44:00):
like treat that, Like do you practice like meditating or
is there are there any tips you have for that
fear of being alone with yourself and how to like
sit through the discomfort instead of reaching out for something
else or someone else. I mean, I think for me,
it was really important to eliminate the alcohol in the beginning, because,
like I said earlier, like the alcohol was like it
(44:21):
was getting in the way, and that was the thing
that I used to reach to when I felt lonely
and I felt sad, and honestly, like the image that
came to me when you were asking that question is
laying in bed alone. And I think, like I in
my last relationship that I was in, like he was
a tall, very cuddly man, and like I loved laying
in bed with him and I slept better and it
(44:41):
was just like it felt really good. And now that
he's not in my life, it's like I'm alone in
bed again, but it feels different, Like I cuddle my
I put my pillows around me, and so I feel
like I still have a sense of something. I remember
one time my therapist said, like, get a body pillow.
I still haven't done it, and she's like, not, I'm
not too sun flip, but get a body pillow, and
(45:02):
I will order one after this um. But I think
it's like it is just genuinely sitting through the discomfort
because eventually the discomfort goes away. Like I think in
sitting through that it is healing because there's no fix
to it. It's like that relationship ended and it's sad
and I have to allow myself to a grieve it.
And I did that and then like something else opened
(45:24):
up for me, you know, Like that's how life works, Devin.
We have to stop there because this conversation is obviously
something to be savored. I don't drink, and I never
liked beer that much, but I have a feeling with
this conversation like some hipster men feel about like I
p a s where I just want to drink it slowly.
I want to enjoy it. Some people sip one glass
(45:46):
of whiskey all through a night. And this is how
I feel about this conversation. It's precious to me. I
love it. I did not want to truncate it. We
recorded for about two hours with Jeanie, so we are
going to continue, you apart two with a Year without
Men next week. And I am not going to do
(46:06):
with this conversation what I do with my Halloween candy
every year, which is that I always say, Okay, I'm
going to save some people's Halloween candy last the whole year.
It's true. I can do that. I can make mine
last the whole year and then eating it all in
a matter of hours. I'm not going to do that
with this conversation. I'm going to let it last I'm
so excited. I'm so honored that was willing to be
(46:27):
so vulnerable with us, and I've never um I've known
her for a while, but I've never heard so many
parts of her story. I really think that she has
such a helpful perspective, and I'm so excited for her
to continue sharing it with us next week, So state
see all there bye. It's such area true, it's surromantic.
(47:11):
Love me, baby, don't leave me hanging. I want true
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