June 24, 2021 • 52 mins
Carolina and Devin cover the explosive ABC News investigative piece The Housewife & The Hustler all about Erika Jayne and Tom Girardi and their connection (both romantic and criminal), which launches a discussion about seeing what you want to see in someone and the power of friendship against all odds. They also touch on other notable scammers such as Billy McFarland of Fyre Fest Fame, Anna Delvey and of course Lisa Rinna.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow
and this is Devin Leary. Devin and I were just
having one of our earth shattering Sister Bond blood Oath
conversations where it just was a mind meld as we
were talking about open, honest communication, romantic relationships. We were
(00:37):
weren't we? I thought we were talking about the finale
of Cruel Summer. I am not watching children's TV shows,
you guys, Devin hooked me on. Olivia Rodrigo hooked me.
I didn't know that. You never even told me. Okay, well,
some of our listeners who track my track every word
(00:58):
I say every week might have heard me say I'm
going to listen to Sour this week and get back
to you. I sure did. I listened to Good for You.
I was walking to go go to a workout, a
six am workout, mind you? I put on good Yeah,
well it's things I've been doing right now wait wait
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. You do
(01:22):
six am workouts. I do six am workouts. Now are
you talking about I want to get really really hot,
but it takes out Carolina? Wait? What are you talking about?
You wake up at five am? I wake up at
five thirty am, and I walk. I walk to go.
I trek across Boston to go to a six fifteen
(01:48):
or six am workouts ten minute walk, twenty minute walk,
depending on what class I'm taking. What time do you
go to work? I get picked up around eight thirty,
so you go mind work out from like six to seven,
come back, take a shower, go to work. Exactly. What
time do you go to bed? I try to go
(02:09):
to bed. My dream bed time is like ten, My
actual bedtime's eleven. Wow, I'm shook it. I'm shook it.
I'm in awe. I really wish that I could be
like you, and I'm going to try to be like
you it. I am like the first female president. You
are like I. I'm more in awe of you doing
(02:31):
that than I am of anything Hillary Clinton has ever done.
I'm also like I've had this shift I've been noticing
recently where like I don't think like being unhealthy is
cool anymore, which I used to think it was cool.
And I think it goes along with a recent experience
I've had where I sold almost all of my clothes
and purchased much more modest, much more mature clothing. As
(02:55):
you can see, I'm wearing a long cardigan cardigan almost
like a dust or, and I'm wearing a full all
the way up to my neck black shirt. I'm only
purchasing in a duster. I'm taking advantage of my privilege
and what that I can afford to spend. I mean,
I honestly can't really because I'm pretty much dead even
(03:17):
between my debt and how much money I have in
my bank account. But I'm trying to only purchase from
like sustainable places and places that don't have a history
of using prison labor, labor or um, you know, like
exploiting their workers in any way. So I've been shopping
for like nice, you know, classy, respectable clothing, and I'm
(03:40):
not embarrassed of it, whereas in the past I was like,
I am trash, don't give a fuck. Also, I realized
today I was like, remember when I used to think
it would be so lame if I quit smoking, Like
today I was like actually proud of the fact that
I quit smoking, and like I was remembering how hard
it was when I went on this work trip and
I had to like hide my smoking. It was horrible,
and I was like O wait, I guess I like,
(04:01):
don't think that's cool anymore to like hide your vices. Anyway,
I spent the weekend when I wasn't having giardia literally
shooting myself on the toilet because of a juice that
I drank. Who will discuss later. I was reading and
I was like, Okay, maybe my new thing is I'll
go to bed early and read back to me. I
(04:24):
work out now because I realized that if I work
out a lot, I'll feel better and much like you,
I you know, when I was in the hospital and
I got out and they told me if you smoke,
your healing will slow down. My um head said, don't smoke,
or your healing will slow down, and that eventually morphed
(04:44):
into don't smoke, it might make you sick, and I can't.
I was almost shocked that no one else was getting
that memo, and I know that we've all gotten it,
but it just suddenly confused me. And it's similar with
my reaction to working out now. I'm like, oh, when
I work out, I feel good. I do want to
get in better shape, and I, unfortunately do know that
(05:08):
that has to do what I put in my body.
And I also do know that. I simply I am
not a friend of that. I found out about an
amazing new cleanse that some movie stars are doing. I
just can't do it. I can't. I can't go on
any sort of thing where I can't eat. What's the cleans?
I don't even want to tell you. This is all
(05:29):
to say. This whole tangent was for me to say.
I was listening to sour Olivia Rodrigo's album on the
way to a Barry's bootcamp class, Good for You hits
my system and I am transformed. I'm taking it back
to Ashley Simpson's autobiography. I'm walking to school and listening
(05:49):
to Ashley Simpson's autobiography. I'm taking it back to Avril Levine.
I'm with you. I'm taking it back to these really
melancholy but punk rock songs I used to listen to
as a kid. I'm completely enjoying the moment Devin gets
me howked on Olivia Rodrigo, And then Devin posts a
picture of Olivia Rodrigo in her high school graduation gown,
(06:13):
saying by high school, well, yeah, she's full of rude
awakenings because she'll also like in um Brutal, which is
one of my favorite songs from the album. She's like,
I'm so sick of seventeen. I'm like, okay, do you
have to like mention that? And then she'll say, like,
you know, as we've talked about before, she talks about
like Glee re runs and all this stuff. Tests Sitsmen
(06:36):
pointed out that like she references things that are actually
very basic common things of years past as if it's
a niche, Like she's like, I bet you showed her
Billy Joel. Also it's like, yeah, Billy Joel is like
you hear that any fucking wahwah that you walk into
on the you know, on the Jersey Shore. So no,
that's not like she's like, you showed her Billy Joel.
(07:00):
So then I'm picturing like the sixteen year old boy
who's like, hey, so I just wanted to send you
this song I just found and it's fucking Billy Joel.
This is a guy whose name was Bruce Springsteen. He
was like a rock star back you probably wouldn't know
You wouldn't know him yet, you probably haven't heard of him,
but he is kind of known as the Boss. Anyone
(07:21):
I want to make out. You know that anyone who's
referred to as the boss is not niche, right, Um, so, yeah,
she's a little young, but she gets it happier as
gold gold gold, it really is. I she really gets
to it and she pumps you up. I mean she
(07:42):
has some downers, which I'm not as into as the
real pump up jam, which I would um designate good
for you as. And I've actually I've burned out on it.
So Devin and I wanted to discuss scammers scam artists,
but there are so many, there's such a breadth of
(08:03):
them in this world, that we decided to start with
one topical gentleman. Would I call him? No, This man is,
as the documentary calls him, a hustler from the Housewife
and the Hustler. Yes, we're speaking of Erica, Jane Girardi
and Tom Girardi. We're talking about a piece of investigative
(08:26):
journalism that the ABC News did that was released gratefully
through Hulu, where I also get my Housewives fixed. I
mean I I never I knew something was up because
I never get like an ABC News on my algorithm,
you know, like when you open the Hulu app, it's
like the immediately shows you what it thinks you should watch,
and mine is normally like, uh, the girl who wasn't
(08:50):
there or something like that's my or like some teen
show about like a coven or a click or something.
So I opened I see ABC News. I'm like, what
the funk is being advertising me? And then I was like, oh,
it's I see it. It's a frame, it's a framed photo.
The picture that is advertised with the show is a
framed photo of Erica Jane Girardi and Tom Girardi, and
(09:13):
the glass of the frame is shattered. So that's about
enough in and of itself that I was like, all right,
that's what they chose as like the main photo. But
then the title sequence of the special is the framed
photo breaking, the shattered glass shattering, and like a very
cheap sound effect that's like the sound of glass breaking,
and it's like, I guess a metaphor. So yeah, it
(09:34):
really jumped right up on my Hulu page, and I
watched it basically within seconds of it being released, and
I watched it a second time since then. So to
give you broad strokes of Tom Girardi's crimes, he embezzled money,
from his clients, most of whom were victims of terrible
(09:58):
crimes of negligence by huge companies. So they won millions
of dollars and Tom Girardi stole it. And what makes
it especially egregious is that he already had. He was
worth millions upon millions, and he was funneling a lot
of money into his younger wife's pop star career. So
they were just burning money together. So when the documentary starts,
(10:21):
we're sitting down with victims, victims, families, lawyers, journalists, and
then inexplicably, a couple of housewives. It's very confusing because
they opened with Danielle And my first thought when I
saw Danielle stab who's a real housewif of New Jersey,
actually has nothing to do with Erica Jayane, like not
friends with her, doesn't know her. They just stripped at
(10:41):
the same club. Yeah, I mean whatever. So she sits
down and so immediately I'm like, oh, this has no credibility,
Like we all know, Danielle has no credibility. She's prostitution horror,
she lied about everything, and why are they opening with her.
So my mom told me that she had stopped watching
Housewife and the hustler like she is, like, this is stupid.
I don't want to watch it because they open with
(11:03):
these like people Heather McDonald who have nothing to do
with anything, and it seems like, what even is this?
This is going to be like garbage. Little do we
know later on in the documentary they show that they
have Christopher Darden, Uh what's he from? Good question? The O. J.
Simpson Trial, represented by none other than Sterling Kay Brown
(11:23):
in an adaptation of the O. J. Simpson Trial. These
are the types of big wigs they have. They have victims,
they have perpetrators. They have Girardi Yes, Girardi Kiss legal
consultant slash Angel kim Archie illegal consultant for Gerardi Keys
who was best friends with one of the victims. They
have these big players. Why did they open with Danielle
(11:44):
and they open with fucking Dana that like dollar glasses
from Beverly Hills. No one gives a funk about these people.
I don't know why they did. I mean, Dana is
a hustler in and of herself, and she offered nothing
besides like Erica. Uh so, Erica was on the scene
and Tom was clearly putting money into her shows. I
(12:07):
was like, Dana, shut the funk up, I don't care
what you're saying. She was also saying stuff that we
all knew. She was like I heard they were getting divorced,
and you can hear the producer go, can you elaborate
on that? She says no. And also she had her
own scam things like if she had been like, I'm
also a SCAMMERA at least Danielle was like trying to
equate herself. Like I could see Danielle was like, oh,
(12:27):
I've also faced strife, in the same way that Camille
Grammer tried to say she understood what Brett Kavanaugh had
been through because people also had said she lied, you know,
that classic moment, In the same way that Lisa Rinna
said that her husband had stopped being friends with a
rapist that's why she had to stop being friends with
(12:47):
Denise Richards, right, So like, I think in that same way,
Danielle was trying to say, like, I am also a
spurned housewife, so I get Erica, and she clearly wants
to be friends with Erica in a way that I
found enticing, where she was like making fun of her.
She said, like I respect that Erica sings even though
she can't carry a tune, but she clearly wants like
(13:08):
Erica to text her and say like, hey, I liked
how you came through from me in The House, Housewife
and the Hustler. But aside from that, this ABC News
needed to get someone on the ground who understands Bravo
to be like, you don't need Dana, you don't need Danielle.
These people want the facts. They want the facts. That's
what we wanted, and we got them, but not right away.
I did like the part where they were talking about
(13:31):
I think it was Danielle who was talking about how
you really have to prove yourself to be a housewife
if you want to keep up with a Vicky A Kenya,
Teresa A Candy. We get it, we get it. There's
a lot of real high rollers. Yeah. It also was like,
I don't know in the beginning too, I felt like
(13:54):
they were kind of using clips of Erica that felt
kind of out of context, Like so I was kind
of like, earlier, are they going to have anything good
to go on? I didn't realize they had zoom testimony,
they had recorded phone calls of Tom. I mean, this
was so incriminating for Tom, not that I didn't already
believe everything I've already read about him, which I do. Like,
I know he stole money from victims of some of
(14:17):
the most egregious corporate crimes and just uh basically abhorrent circumstances.
Victims who have been through things we can't imagine he's
stole money from them. So I didn't know that. But
the phone calls, I mean, he's calling people, making up
lies and saying like, don't be mad at me. I'm
a good guy. I mean, by the way, I'm a
(14:38):
really good guy. But you know, I just couldn't make
it happen. It's like, oh, behavior, Yeah, I was like,
on top of everything, you're like a cheesy in cell motherfucker.
You're pathetic, like on top of everything, on top of
being having bottomless greed because you literally live in like
a hundred million dollar mansion with its own church inside
(15:00):
of it in Pasadena. Your wife has a creative director
for her nonexistent pop career that's a hobby, and you
have two airplanes. And then in the midst of this
all you're stealing money from victims and that's not enough
for you. You're so greedy that you also need them
to think you're a good guy. So you're not only
(15:21):
a thief, but you're a thief who actually is worried
about what someone thinks about you after you steal from them.
So all of his calls, he's saying stuff like, don't
be mad at me, and you're a really great kid,
and you know everyone's really upset about what happened to you.
It's really really egregious and speaks of a incredibly dark
(15:42):
person with zero moral compass. And I say this as
someone who loved Erica Jane and bear with Me, loved
Tom Girardi. I thought that they had figured something out.
You know, she re seemed really loyal to him. Whenever
she spoke about him on the show, she spoke about
you know, she mentioned him a lot, and you know
(16:05):
how thankful she was for him. And I remember once
she was talking to Dorry because dorry husband was still
friends with Lisa Vanderpump, even though Dorritt wasn't. And Deret said,
I can't believe that Peaky Pokey whatever Dorit's husband's name
is Pek. She said, I can't believe Peak's friends with
(16:25):
the vander Pumps. Because if someone has a problem with Tom,
they have a problem with me. And I was like, okay, well,
I'm actually looking for that loyalty kind of loyalty in
my life right now. But in any case, I thought
that what they had was worth something. Little did I
know this was a whole fucking money scheme. Yeah, it's
(16:46):
interesting that you bring that up, because that's like all
I could think was Erica Jane. You know, obviously when
she was on Broadway in Chicago, many critics, including my
own mother, were like shocked by that, and they were like,
why the funk is this woman on Broadway? People work
their whole careers to be on Broadway and she just
gets to like walk on because she's a housewife. And
(17:07):
I found myself thinking while watching this, like, you know what,
she actually does deserve to be on Broadway because she's
such a good actress. Like that scene they showed where
he's talking about like not really wanting to be on camera,
and she's like, that's him, that's him. Yeah, he wants
to be in the courtroom, he wants to be in
the office, like and I was like, they do really
seem in love, Like they seem like they have this
great dynamic and it was all an act. And this
(17:29):
is a huge Again not to make this about me,
but I'm going to because I do have narcissistic tendencies.
This is a huge loss for me personally because my
mom and I had a conflict over Erica Jayne. My
mom from the beginning, so she didn't trust Erica Jayne.
She didn't think that Erica Jayne was like a woman
who likes other women. She was like, I just don't
trust her. I don't get the glam squad thing. It's weird.
(17:51):
And I always defended her because I was like, I
think it's amazing that this forty something year old woman
is having a career as a pop star, no matter
how old she does, no matter where she came from,
she just wants to be a pop star. She's doing it.
That's cool. I think her fashion is amazing. I think
she's very like stoic seeming and cool. So I defended
her all these years, and I defended her arrangement with
Tom and just thought like they are in love, they
(18:13):
care about each other, they protect each other. And I
didn't know that I was standing up for disgusting narcissists
who are victimizing people, and so I have to you know,
bite my tongue and and give you know, my mom
the vindication she deserves. I'm unfortunately concerned because there are
(18:34):
many other housewives that I love and my mom is
starting to be like, I don't know about them, and
I'm like, if fucking Leah turns out to be bad,
I'll lose my mind. But she did already say how
much more can we take? I can't take that. But
at the same time, Leah did say that she wasn't
going to vote in the election, So I've already kind
of lost. I'm not I'm not doing great in my
confidt with my mom over housewives. She's clearly been right
(18:56):
about a few, and I've been right about none. Oh.
I think that he also seemed charming to me because
he was this soft smoke and old man who made
a lot of money, who did seem very in love
(19:17):
with his wife, and um just seems like oh um,
and he had, you know, fought these huge evil corporations
in one like, how could you not love that? It's
not like he owned p g n E like he
would sue p g n E. So why can't I
enjoy watching that couple. What a power couple, you know,
(19:39):
and there is just something inherently hot. I think about
like a younger woman and an older man. And when
I say younger woman, older man, I am not capital
end and not speaking of the Amelia Hamlin Scott districts
of the world. I think that's grotesque. I'm speaking about
the thirty year old woman, say moa meeting a I
(20:03):
don't know, Roger Sterling, a k. John Slattery type, and
you know, doing something that is experimental and outside of
my comfort zone. Maybe I keep my clothes on the
whole time. Maybe it takes place in his office. I
don't I don't set the scene, you know. Like what
I'm trying to say is that I like an older,
(20:24):
distinguished gentleman and a younger woman. I think that looks good,
and I don't think. Another thing I liked about the
Erica Jane thing is I like that she was in
twenty five. She was in her mid forties, early fifties.
It's interesting that you say that. I do think that
I would like to see you Carol with an older man.
I really would like to see that. I mean, I
(20:46):
just like I want you to be treated like the
princess you are. And I also I also like think
if you were to potentially get together with someone who
has the funds to pay for all your friends to
go on vacations somewhere, that might be cool. But I'm
just saying, if you happen upon that, just make sure
(21:08):
he's not embezzling funds from victims of you see that. Yeah,
that's the hiccup, you know. I this is my thing
with older men. If they're really pursuing me hardcore, I
think it's creepy. They need to just be surprised by
(21:28):
the age difference and unlikes, you know, again using Scott
Distick as the warning, and be like, I never do this.
It has to be one of those situations. Oh yes, well,
matching with these guys. I've been matching these guys on
Riya and like, for instance, I matched with a fifty
year old photographer the other day on Riya. I would
(21:49):
not like trust photographer. Yeah, yeah, I mean obviously I
trust de Nice. Denise is the only photographer I trust.
My mom also happens to be a photographer in her fifties.
But I did grab um no, this photographer. He was
also just gross. I mean, I hope he's not listening.
But he had like a tattoo of his heart. He
had a tattoo of a heart, like a child's drawing
(22:12):
of a heart, like on his upper chest plate. And
I was like, Okay, so you think you're cool and
you're trying to be hip, and like that's disgusting. Like
I need someone who is professional and like is a
surgeon and thinks that I am like a silly, manic
pixie dream girl. Okay, that's immature of him, Like he
(22:34):
needs to know that you need a surgeon, and if
he say him, then he needs to step aside. Like, honestly, no,
I think being with a surgeon would be awesome. There's
so many options for you. I'm so excited for you,
Like find a surgeon, shame of photographer. Just anything is
at your back and call. And also surgeons, it doesn't
(22:56):
seem like there's a lot of room for scamming as
a surgeon unless they're like actually doctor death, unless they're
doctor death. So just avoid doctor death. No. Can I
just say, speaking of men in powerful positions, the lawyer
guy they have like this lawyer who seemed like he
was cast as like a stereotypical lawyer with a lawyer accent.
Oh my god him. Yeah, And they literally couldn't stop
(23:18):
talking about like being a lawyer. He was like, that's
not what you do. That's not what you do. And
at one point they were like and then it came
out that Tom Girardi was actually stealing money from his clients.
And the guy goes, that's the worst thing a lawyer
could do. I was like, yeah, you think, but he
did graduate from law school. I the first name I
(23:40):
hear about was Tom Girardi. I was like, I'm not
I'm starting to believe that you are not a lawyer.
He said, he is l a law He is l
a law. But okay, but this guy did make a
good point later on which kim Archie also made the
same point, which was that as a class action lawyer,
like someone who takes on big corporate clients in the
(24:02):
defense of like the people, like the people versus the man.
That's Tom Girardi's whole thing. That's like, you know, class
action lawyers, that's what they do. So the stereotypical lawyer
guy and Chris Darden and a couple other experts were
and kim Archie were saying like it was really shocking
to people that Tom went on the Real Housewives and
was like flaunting his house and his jets and how
(24:23):
much money he pays Erica Jaane Like everyone was confused
by that because you're not supposed to represent yourself that
way when you're a class action lawyer is supposed to
be like, there's the rich man, and we're fighting for
the people. And he presented himself as this stereotypical lawyer,
said as like, I'm the man I got all this money.
So that was weird and that never would have occurred
to me because I didn't watch How to Get Away
(24:47):
with Murder. I only watched Scandal and Gray's Anatomy, so
I didn't say I didn't get the law classes of
Shonda Land. So that's where I was. Doctor. Yes, I
know how to fix a crisis. No, I'm not a lawyer.
If you have a condition where you constantly have orgasms,
or a rare condition where your face turns red whenever
(25:07):
you are attracted to someone, these are things that I
know everything about, having watched Gray's Anatomy. Stuck under a
truck during a fairy crash, I'm there. I'm with Wayne crash,
another plane crash, lost on an island after a plane crash,
and there's eight of you, and you all have different backstories. Yes,
I'm there, I can help you. I'm there for you.
I'm there for you. But if it's a law thing,
(25:28):
I all I have is legally blonde. And if it's
product shoes and a perm, I get it. But again,
if it's not those things, I don't get it. So listen,
it's complicated. It's complicated my past. I'm layered. I have
many dimensions because Nda has given me almost two full dimensions,
Shonda and Netflix and Hulu and Issio Max and all
(25:49):
this stuff. And speaking of scammers, Shanda is doing the
Anadelphi series. I know. I cannot wait. I cannot wait.
So this is another thing about criminals. And Anna Delvey,
who's fake Russian socialite who does not is in I
think was in Rikers and showed Nizero remorse as a scammer,
(26:12):
which made me kind of cheerful in a way because
she's still primarily from rich people, not like Tom Girardi
who exploited um incredibly sick and vulnerable people. The craziest
criminals to me are those who steal without even trying
to hide it. So he was just not paying these
(26:32):
people the money that had one in court they're literally
calling him. The part I hated the most was these
two females, one of them illegal consultant, the other one
the mother of a son who was injured in an
awful explosion, are trying to there. They are, you know,
arms deep in paperwork every night, trying to figure out
(26:54):
where the money is basically, and he's just giving them
the run around like, oh, yeah, these things happen, the
money will come next week, da da da, just not
paying them and too you know, their defense. By the
time they realized something really confusing is happening, they said,
where are we going to go? He's friends with the cops,
like he's friends with the judges. Where do we go?
(27:17):
But that was also to speak to what you were
saying earlier about watching him on the Housewives. You're waiting
for money from this guy. And then you turn on
Bravo and you see Erica Jane with her career breaking down,
her tour with her creative director wearing you know, uh
(27:39):
Chanel first slides or her Gucci track suit or whatever,
and it's like, wait, can I have some of that money. Wait,
how hard is it for him to just get me
my money? Yeah? And it's like she she does overtly
brag about a lot of stuff, like and the jet
and like they said in the show, she has a
song called his Expensive to Be Me. Yeah, it's just
(28:02):
really disturbing. Like and again I did catch myself thinking
why didn't I see that this was disturbing sooner? Like
I loved Expensive to Be Me. I rooted for her
when she was making that video. Um, not a single
part of me was like, is it weird for this
like white woman to be seeing a song about how
expensive her lifestyle is? But yeah, can I also just
(28:23):
say that there are two people that are very complicit
in these crimes and I have to name them, and
one of whom is Jay Leno, And to me, I mean,
he's complicit in most crimes of society. He's just he's
just he's some real scum um. So I'm not surprised
that he performed at a Girardi Keys party. But another
(28:46):
complicit member of society we already knew she was complicit
because she slept with Brandy's husband. But that is LeAnn Rimes,
who performed at the Girardi Keys Giardi at Keys Carolina,
Carolina called him Tom Giardia, So now I can't stop
thinking his name is Giardia. Um Leanne Rhymes performing at
(29:07):
their Christmas party, and thank god they included a clip
of it, and she's like, oh how they ring? Oh
how he marry marry Mary marry Christmas. I love that
Liam Rhimes is still just in a corner, just just
trying to put her toe in the spotlight. What does
she have a famous song or something like? She was
(29:29):
like a child's country star, a child country star who
never made a lot of money. I think she was
really hit the charts when she was a child, and
then she grew up and got married. I remember when
I was sixteen ring an interview with her on god knows,
like maybe like TV guide or something, and I don't
know how I got there. I don't know where I was,
(29:50):
and you know, I lacked as cellphone at the time,
so you know, before cell phones, we read stupid ship,
We did cross or puzzles in the back of p
Bowl magazine and the doctor's waiting round like we had
so much, you know, useless stuff to go through. So
I was reading this interview with Leon Rhymes, and she
was talking about her husband at the time. This is
(30:11):
before Eddie Cibrian, and she says, me and my husband
are just like any other couple, except you know, any
other couple doesn't make headlines on newspapers every day. And
I remember you even then thinking, um, you're high. If
you think I've ever seen you like on a newspaper
or a magazine cover, that's a very Randa move. I
(30:33):
feel like Renna is always like, oh my god, the
paparazzi is here, Okay, okay, and it's like they're not
fucking there for you, Mitch, Okay. I have something to
say about Renda too, though Harry Hamlin is really hot.
Harry's getting hotter. Harry Hamlin is hot. Lisa Rerenna, as
Zewey said on Bitch Sesh this week, either she's the
devil or the character she's playing is the devil, and
(30:56):
nothing's ever wrong more true for me. I fucking hate
lis Arena, and I hate how she's like I could
I can give a good blow job, though I'm like,
do you think that's funny? Like we get it, you
like think you're hot? I just think that she's very
defensive of her marriage with Harry Hamlin given the speculation
(31:16):
around it. I mean she's defensive of everything because everything
about her life deserves speculation. It's like, what the fund
is she doing? Yeah, she's always trying to like she
tries to create these like cute moments with Harry where
she's like, Okay, Harry starting your garden. Oh my god, Harry,
like I'm gonna play with this hose and talk about
blow jobs. And it's like, maybe Harry just wants to
(31:37):
have a nice time. Maybe he doesn't want to talk
about sex. Maybe he doesn't want to make blow job jokes.
He just wants to fucking garden. He wants to have
a peaceful moment. He doesn't want to talk about your
fucking drama. Just let him be at peace. I just
find when the husbands are forced to talk about the drama.
But it's like Harry just wants to be at peace.
Like I feel like justice for Harry, Like I want
him to be happy. I don't want him to have
(31:58):
to hear about the blow job jokes all the time.
But yeah, I loved last week when like Maurzio and
and p K had to be like did you see
the girls were talking? Well, meanwhile, like, I don't know
how this is going to play out on the show.
I feel like that clip of the show that was
in Housewife and the Hustler of Garcell asking Erica she knew.
(32:21):
I feel like that's like one of the only clips
I've seen. I feel like they only have like two
or three good moments for real housees with Beverly Hills,
and they're just going to play it out and like
string it out and string it out. It's like they
probably don't really have anything that good, but they're just
drawing it out. I'll keep watching anyway, because I love
my fucking useless content. It's also wild that how much
(32:44):
Erica seems to be enjoying this. Yes, her walking in
with like her weird stoic face and being like hello
and slamming the door like she's here, Yes, she doesn't
love me. I would be literally crying on every angle,
even Teresa Judici. They shook the clip of her walking
into the party after she was in jail. She looked
(33:06):
like I actually felt for her there. She looked like
really uncomfortable and everyone was staring at her. Erica Jane
is not coming off that way, Like I said, she
is an excellent actress where I'm like, oh, you could
be in the next season of Cruel Summer because she
has that like soapy like step mom of a teen
(33:29):
character down pat and she really does evil stepmom, evil stepmom.
They talked about it in House Live in the Hustler too,
They're like, it's really weird that she went on the show,
Like why did she keep when she got so I
don't know. I guess there's debate. It's like some people
really believe that what she's saying, which is that she
had no idea she just one day decided to divorce
(33:51):
Tom out of nowhere, and there's to me, there's no
way that could possibly be true. But most people think
like she had some sense that this was coming. So
in how A Life in the Hustler, they're saying, so
why did she just go on the show anyway? But
I think you're right. Part of it has to do
with like she wants to play the like, yes, it
is happening to me thing. I think that Tom approached
(34:13):
her as like this thing, like the ship is about
to sink and this is how we need to frame it,
and this is what you need to do. You need
to divorce me. Um, I'm going to say that I'm
ill Like he's already doing the Harvey Weinstein thing where
he's saying that like he has dementia and you know,
this is how we're going to try and distract and
(34:37):
deflect or whatever. But she personal question. No, I was
just gonna ask you your opinion on like, what do
you think they're now that we know that she's a
narcissist and he's a monster, what do you think they're dynamic?
Actually was like like once the cameras are off and
they've just done their little like he's always in the
(34:59):
off is he doesn't want to be on TV, like
stick what happens? Okay, this might not align with what
I've just been saying for the past forty five minutes,
but I truly do believe they loved each other and
they cared for each other. They shoot all the markings
for that. Do I believe that negates anything about what
(35:24):
we've been saying about them both being narcissist, truly greedy,
and at the very least for him, incomprehensibly awful person. No,
I think that monsters can love each other. I think
they really loved each other that came through. I don't
think they spend that much time together. I think that
(35:46):
he I mean it was interesting hearing one of the
his clients, a victim of a fire, talk about how
when Tom took him out to dinner, he kept on
talking about Erica and how amazing she was. Look she
bought me this time. I I think, you know, Erica
is objectively a gorgeous person, to be honest, She's prettier
(36:07):
now than she was when she was thirty. And um,
you know Devon as a sister in cosmetic surgery, I
think you can appreciate that she also had a nose
job that served her very well. And I mean, I
don't even know if she needed that nose job, but yeah,
she I think she's stunning. Every time I see her,
my breath is taken away. Even knowing she's a monster,
(36:27):
my breath is taken away. She looks like Anna. Nicole
Smith is also someone that people made a joke out
of it, but if you look at pictures of her,
she just factually is one of the most beautiful women
I've ever seen. Um And I when I say that,
I mean, like, yeah, she's like the hot that I
wanted to be when I was young, like big boob,
like southern big hair closer got hot, So Erica Jane
(36:52):
and sorry, Yes, and that I think that Tom loved that.
I think that he liked that with the way a
lot of men who are trophy wives like it where
they you know, kind of know the person shallowly, and
(37:13):
like a lot of trophy wives, I think she loved
her husband kind of shallowly. He was a nice person.
Did they have to go through anything really hard together? No,
they just hung out in their mansion and she asked
for money to make music videos. I mean this had
me thinking about one relationship I had that that. Yeah,
this time me thinking about my ex my marriage who
(37:35):
was Bernie made off? And I know we've joked about
made off on the pod, but it's actually really serious
and we also, um we also were in love. No
I'm kidding, No, I'm sorry, Like I know they made
off is actually sucked up. I'm sorry. Um, So it
made me think about what you were just saying about.
Like I was in a relationship that lasted a long
(37:56):
time that I often was like, wait, how did that
last so long? How did how did I not see
the problem sooner, and I think that it was the
two things you just mentioned, which is one not spending
that much time together because this person traveled a lot
um for work and like just was really busy and
I was really busy, So we didn't spend that much
time together. Also, didn't go through anything hard together until
(38:18):
later in the relationship, and so it's like, yeah, if
something serious doesn't come up, which it often doesn't, especially
when you're privileged white people, it's hard to see the
cracks and then when something That's why I think we
talked so much about like how COVID affected relationships, because
it was like, oh, everyone's going through something hard right now,
(38:39):
and some people don't ever go through something hard, and
this is how we learn. So I have to say,
and I've never talked about this some pod before, but
something I obsessively think about are all the hot, rich
people who have not made relationships last or work. And
why this helps me is because I look back at
(39:01):
failed relationships in my past and I'll play the what
if game. So what if I didn't move to l A,
What if I had more time to do this, What
if I didn't have this work schedule, and then I
have to remind myself that there are and this is
a point that defn have made before, people who have
(39:22):
had everything at their beck and call. They've had every
access to anything to make life easier. Truly, that's not
even an exaggeration. Any kind of trainer, therapist, driver, fucking
you know people to help them get dressed and put
their clothes on, and still could not make relationships last.
(39:44):
And that helps me because you know, we we blame
it on the hard things, but some people don't even
need hard things, and sometimes, like you're saying, one hard
thing will hit and the whole you know, house of
cards will come down. Yeah, for Erica and Tom, that
was embezzlement coming to light, or probably just that they
(40:08):
were running out of money. Yeah, they were running out
of money. And I'm I'm really going to be on
the edge of my seat to see how this all
plays out. But what I really pray for is money
for the victims. If Erica Jane, as z Way also
said on um Bitch says this week, if Erica Jane
does have any of the money, she needs to give
it back to these people right away. And I just
(40:32):
want to give a final lasting shout out to these
two best friends, Um kim Archie and the mother her
best friend, who is the mother of this man who
was burned in this PGNE explosion. And they said that
they had been friends for forty eight years, best friends
(40:53):
for forty eight years, and they say, quote, I can say,
we've never said an unkind word to each other, which
of course made me immediately think that unfortunately, I can't
say that for Carolina and I we have mostly I
have said many unkind words. I was gonna say. I
watched it, of course immediately thought of Devon thought the
same thing where I said, well, Devon has said some
(41:14):
unkind things to me, for instance, if I'm just gonna
you know, quickly file through memories. There was the one
time that I had a boyfriend when I was twenty two,
and Devon famously did not have a boyfriend at nineteen.
So she told me at a dance that she hated
me from the bottom of her heart. Yes. The irony
(41:35):
is that when she said to me, she was sitting
on my lap like an actual baby, and I was
wearing a purple lace body con dress from bb Um
and a white sequence blazer. So listen choices were made
that didn't need to be made, and if there was
a documentary made about those choices, I would be horrified.
(41:58):
As opposed to these women who are heroes that we
got to watch in this invest women's heroes. I Um,
I don't believe that life gives us stuff. I don't
believe that life gives us just as much as we
can handle. Life gives us more than any human can handle.
Life is so hard. Being a human is very difficult.
And um, I you know, as someone who, as I
(42:24):
reference a lot, has been through my share of medical emergencies,
our medical crises, my heart really went out to these
families and the and the chaos, you know, the after
after effect. Someone recently was talking about how people tend
to reach out right as something bad is happening, and
(42:46):
the best thing to do is to keep reaching out
even after something bad has happened, because you get a
bunch of love at once, and then you know, people
sort of going with their lives, which is natural. This
is normal, normal behavior. I'm sure I've done it. I'm
sure we've all done it because this is normal behavior.
But it's good to keep reaching out to that person
even if they're gonna lie and say they're fine. And
(43:09):
what I loved about these two friends was that they
just kept sticking by each other and they were prioritizing
who to take care of as they're both going through it.
They both had um, you know, awful situations with their sons,
and in that way, I think that there's nothing that
the world can hand us that friendship can't handle. That's
so beautiful. I love that. Thank you. I feel like
(43:34):
I having not been through medical trauma, but having seen you,
one of my favorite people on earth, having to go
through it. I had a new perspective watching this of
just like how these people had to go through one
of the worst things a person can go through, and
then on top of that, go through another of the
(43:54):
worst things people have to go through, which is someone
who you think is on your side turning against you
and actively hard men you, which is just so traumatizing
and I just can't even I think this takes the
cake for housewife scandals. Really, I mean, who gives a
funk about Jojidics tax fraud? To be honest, well, I
(44:15):
think it's interesting. You know, something bad happens, no matter
what the causes, it makes you cynical, right, You start
predicting that bad things happen, you have an embittered, you know,
view on the world, and then on top of that,
someone fucks you over again and he's this rich, fucking
asshole in Beverly Hills. Yeah, you start looking at human
nature as a really messed up situation. So I think
(44:38):
it is actually important to be a witness to that.
I'm glad these people have the chance to tell their story. No,
I don't think that absolves any of their pain. Um,
but at least they at least people see the truth.
At least people see this man for who he really is.
And um, you know, your ex wasn't the worst. Whoever
is listening to this, Your ex is not that bad. Probably,
(45:03):
you know, try being easy on him today unless he
was really a piece of ship. Oh all right, let's
let's go to some some other honorable mentioned scammers partners. Well,
(45:23):
we have to talk about Billy McFarland. We really can't
talk about a scammer. I would never like to talk
about a scammer. Um. And uh, forget Firefest because Firefest documentaries, Um,
there are only two and there should be at least four.
And I need more footage from the island. I need
(45:45):
more footage from the planes and buses. I need more
footage from the night where everyone's trying to find shelter.
I might rewatch, Like I honestly might rewatch, because absolutely
I think that was that was the benefit of that year.
Like it's like I said this here, it's like some
kind of entity out there in the universe was like,
the people need something, I'm gonna give them benefit. I
(46:05):
feel like in twenty nineteen Trump was president, all this
awful ship was happening. Some kind of entity was like,
all right, they're gonna need a firefest, and they made
it happen. But he had this model girlfriend who was
like Billy and you know, in the middle of our
interview runs out of the room to get like answer
the phone. And you're just thinking, of course, of course
(46:28):
you have a girlfriend who can't wait to talk to
you while you're in jail. You know, I mean, I
should be so lucky. I am not in prison. I
currently no legal charges against me. Knock on wood currently
and currently currently I said, and um, no one's you know,
leaving their talking head to talk to me. I know,
(46:49):
I think you and um, your mom and sister and
I had this conversation once about how like there's always
a woman for every man. Like a man can do
whatever the funk he wants, and there there will be
a woman who will like visit him in prison and
like take pictures with him every year in front of
the prison backdrop, you know, like, what's his name, Charlie Manson?
(47:13):
What's his name? Who am I kidding? What's his name? Um?
He's always got different girlfriends, like the Menendez brothers had girlfriends.
People are getting married in prison, people are having affairs
in prison. People are cheating. Like one of the couples
in Love after lock Up, it was like this guy
had two different girlfriends when he was in prison and
was cheating on them with each other. So that's just
(47:36):
the society we live in. But yeah, it was one
of the Firefest documentaries where they're like showing where Billy
is now. It was I think the Hulu one maybe,
but they like we're like, this is where he's at now.
He has a stunning model girlfriend. So it's doing pretty well. Actually,
so actually everything's fine. Um. And she One of the
(47:58):
details I loved from this article in Refinery twenty nine
about her is that it said she's now working with
Silent Models. That's the name of her agencies, Silent Models.
I'm so mad that I didn't think of that and
write it as a joke. Silent Models, they just don't.
They just ate silent model industry. They date the most
egregious white collar criminals and they don't say ship because
(48:20):
they're silent. Yeah. And then she's quoted in this article
saying when Billy and I met, it was destiny. It
was love. I don't know how to explain it, She giggles.
I never had this kind of connection, but he drew
my connection just with my energy. Yep. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep.
I don't know. I want to also say that we
(48:42):
are being sexist. We're only talking about male scammers, and
I really want to just touch quickly on the a
formentioned Aganna Delvi. Anna Delvi was a quote unquote socialite
um much like Audrey Gelman of The Wing. She wanted
to open up her own like Scene Hotel and York City,
a soho ish type club focused on art, and she
(49:08):
stayed at a hotel. She was cash rich, so she
was staying at a hotel and much like Eloise Older.
She was a little bit wild um, but everyone was
charmed by her and she would always tip really well.
And this is again just stealing in broad daylight. She
was always hanging out with people and just not paying,
(49:29):
but because because she fit the mold of what a
socialite dress like, looked like, no one was really counting
their change. She was always hanging out with really rich people.
You know. My favorite story is she asked her friend
I believe it was a playing trip to Venice. She
was like, oh, let's go see um, let's go to
(49:50):
Venice together for this art show. Uh. And he was
like great, and she was like, okay, you buy me
a first class paying ticket and I'll pay you back.
So it pays what likes to get her on a plane.
And he realizes later, oh, I don't know if Anna
paid me back. And she would do that multiple times.
She threw a huge birthday party for herself at a
(50:13):
famous New York restaurant. It costs something like eleven thousand
dollars and the next morning they realized no one had
put down a card. Now that's half on the restaurant,
but also it's not it's you know, because of this
expectation they have around people like this, and and that's
the crazy. Part two is that the people who are
(50:35):
most likely to be greedy are rich. This idea that
desperate people are greedy is simply not true. The people
who are most likely to steal from us are currently
stealing from us. Their name is Jeff Bezos, their name
is Elon Musk, their name is believe it or not,
humanitarian Bill Gates. They are currently stealing from us every
(50:57):
single day that um, you know, they're paying less taxes
than a nurse in Phoenix, Arizona. So they get away
with it because we just simply aren't looking there. There's
these false crime statistics, this idea of a border problem,
and that's where our head goes, is that no, like
(51:18):
Jeff Bezos is an entrepreneur, the American dream, but this
person who's trying to get into America from a country
that we dessemated is actually the problem. Yeah, well because yeah,
it's like Billy McFarland, Like he's just a successful looking
white guy and he because of his privilege. He even
says in his documentary that he doesn't think he'll go
to prison. He's like, why would that happen? To me,
(51:40):
and I mean honestly fair enough, like why would that
happen to a white person? Um in our society? So
people want to believe that they want to believe. I
think that's human nature, and um, you just don't see
it until you do, to be honest, and until then, listeners,
(52:01):
we'll catch you next time on True Romance. Listeners, be well,
Jeff Bezos. Don't be well, Jeff Bezos. Give us our
fucking money, all right. I love you, Devin, love you
by ad. I want true's true true suit sorromantic love
(52:37):
me baby, don't leave me again. I want true
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow
and this is Devin Leary. Devin and I were just
having one of our earth shattering Sister Bond blood Oath
conversations where it just was a mind meld as we
were talking about open, honest communication, romantic relationships. We were
(00:37):
weren't we? I thought we were talking about the finale
of Cruel Summer. I am not watching children's TV shows,
you guys, Devin hooked me on. Olivia Rodrigo hooked me.
I didn't know that. You never even told me. Okay, well,
some of our listeners who track my track every word
(00:58):
I say every week might have heard me say I'm
going to listen to Sour this week and get back
to you. I sure did. I listened to Good for You.
I was walking to go go to a workout, a
six am workout, mind you? I put on good Yeah,
well it's things I've been doing right now wait wait
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. You do
(01:22):
six am workouts. I do six am workouts. Now are
you talking about I want to get really really hot,
but it takes out Carolina? Wait? What are you talking about?
You wake up at five am? I wake up at
five thirty am, and I walk. I walk to go.
I trek across Boston to go to a six fifteen
(01:48):
or six am workouts ten minute walk, twenty minute walk,
depending on what class I'm taking. What time do you
go to work? I get picked up around eight thirty,
so you go mind work out from like six to seven,
come back, take a shower, go to work. Exactly. What
time do you go to bed? I try to go
(02:09):
to bed. My dream bed time is like ten, My
actual bedtime's eleven. Wow, I'm shook it. I'm shook it.
I'm in awe. I really wish that I could be
like you, and I'm going to try to be like
you it. I am like the first female president. You
are like I. I'm more in awe of you doing
(02:31):
that than I am of anything Hillary Clinton has ever done.
I'm also like I've had this shift I've been noticing
recently where like I don't think like being unhealthy is
cool anymore, which I used to think it was cool.
And I think it goes along with a recent experience
I've had where I sold almost all of my clothes
and purchased much more modest, much more mature clothing. As
(02:55):
you can see, I'm wearing a long cardigan cardigan almost
like a dust or, and I'm wearing a full all
the way up to my neck black shirt. I'm only
purchasing in a duster. I'm taking advantage of my privilege
and what that I can afford to spend. I mean,
I honestly can't really because I'm pretty much dead even
(03:17):
between my debt and how much money I have in
my bank account. But I'm trying to only purchase from
like sustainable places and places that don't have a history
of using prison labor, labor or um, you know, like
exploiting their workers in any way. So I've been shopping
for like nice, you know, classy, respectable clothing, and I'm
(03:40):
not embarrassed of it, whereas in the past I was like,
I am trash, don't give a fuck. Also, I realized
today I was like, remember when I used to think
it would be so lame if I quit smoking, Like
today I was like actually proud of the fact that
I quit smoking, and like I was remembering how hard
it was when I went on this work trip and
I had to like hide my smoking. It was horrible,
and I was like O wait, I guess I like,
(04:01):
don't think that's cool anymore to like hide your vices. Anyway,
I spent the weekend when I wasn't having giardia literally
shooting myself on the toilet because of a juice that
I drank. Who will discuss later. I was reading and
I was like, Okay, maybe my new thing is I'll
go to bed early and read back to me. I
(04:24):
work out now because I realized that if I work
out a lot, I'll feel better and much like you,
I you know, when I was in the hospital and
I got out and they told me if you smoke,
your healing will slow down. My um head said, don't smoke,
or your healing will slow down, and that eventually morphed
(04:44):
into don't smoke, it might make you sick, and I can't.
I was almost shocked that no one else was getting
that memo, and I know that we've all gotten it,
but it just suddenly confused me. And it's similar with
my reaction to working out now. I'm like, oh, when
I work out, I feel good. I do want to
get in better shape, and I, unfortunately do know that
(05:08):
that has to do what I put in my body.
And I also do know that. I simply I am
not a friend of that. I found out about an
amazing new cleanse that some movie stars are doing. I
just can't do it. I can't. I can't go on
any sort of thing where I can't eat. What's the cleans?
I don't even want to tell you. This is all
(05:29):
to say. This whole tangent was for me to say.
I was listening to sour Olivia Rodrigo's album on the
way to a Barry's bootcamp class, Good for You hits
my system and I am transformed. I'm taking it back
to Ashley Simpson's autobiography. I'm walking to school and listening
(05:49):
to Ashley Simpson's autobiography. I'm taking it back to Avril Levine.
I'm with you. I'm taking it back to these really
melancholy but punk rock songs I used to listen to
as a kid. I'm completely enjoying the moment Devin gets
me howked on Olivia Rodrigo, And then Devin posts a
picture of Olivia Rodrigo in her high school graduation gown,
(06:13):
saying by high school, well, yeah, she's full of rude
awakenings because she'll also like in um Brutal, which is
one of my favorite songs from the album. She's like,
I'm so sick of seventeen. I'm like, okay, do you
have to like mention that? And then she'll say, like,
you know, as we've talked about before, she talks about
like Glee re runs and all this stuff. Tests Sitsmen
(06:36):
pointed out that like she references things that are actually
very basic common things of years past as if it's
a niche, Like she's like, I bet you showed her
Billy Joel. Also it's like, yeah, Billy Joel is like
you hear that any fucking wahwah that you walk into
on the you know, on the Jersey Shore. So no,
that's not like she's like, you showed her Billy Joel.
(07:00):
So then I'm picturing like the sixteen year old boy
who's like, hey, so I just wanted to send you
this song I just found and it's fucking Billy Joel.
This is a guy whose name was Bruce Springsteen. He
was like a rock star back you probably wouldn't know
You wouldn't know him yet, you probably haven't heard of him,
but he is kind of known as the Boss. Anyone
(07:21):
I want to make out. You know that anyone who's
referred to as the boss is not niche, right, Um, so, yeah,
she's a little young, but she gets it happier as
gold gold gold, it really is. I she really gets
to it and she pumps you up. I mean she
(07:42):
has some downers, which I'm not as into as the
real pump up jam, which I would um designate good
for you as. And I've actually I've burned out on it.
So Devin and I wanted to discuss scammers scam artists,
but there are so many, there's such a breadth of
(08:03):
them in this world, that we decided to start with
one topical gentleman. Would I call him? No, This man is,
as the documentary calls him, a hustler from the Housewife
and the Hustler. Yes, we're speaking of Erica, Jane Girardi
and Tom Girardi. We're talking about a piece of investigative
(08:26):
journalism that the ABC News did that was released gratefully
through Hulu, where I also get my Housewives fixed. I
mean I I never I knew something was up because
I never get like an ABC News on my algorithm,
you know, like when you open the Hulu app, it's
like the immediately shows you what it thinks you should watch,
and mine is normally like, uh, the girl who wasn't
(08:50):
there or something like that's my or like some teen
show about like a coven or a click or something.
So I opened I see ABC News. I'm like, what
the funk is being advertising me? And then I was like, oh,
it's I see it. It's a frame, it's a framed photo.
The picture that is advertised with the show is a
framed photo of Erica Jane Girardi and Tom Girardi, and
(09:13):
the glass of the frame is shattered. So that's about
enough in and of itself that I was like, all right,
that's what they chose as like the main photo. But
then the title sequence of the special is the framed
photo breaking, the shattered glass shattering, and like a very
cheap sound effect that's like the sound of glass breaking,
and it's like, I guess a metaphor. So yeah, it
(09:34):
really jumped right up on my Hulu page, and I
watched it basically within seconds of it being released, and
I watched it a second time since then. So to
give you broad strokes of Tom Girardi's crimes, he embezzled money,
from his clients, most of whom were victims of terrible
(09:58):
crimes of negligence by huge companies. So they won millions
of dollars and Tom Girardi stole it. And what makes
it especially egregious is that he already had. He was
worth millions upon millions, and he was funneling a lot
of money into his younger wife's pop star career. So
they were just burning money together. So when the documentary starts,
(10:21):
we're sitting down with victims, victims, families, lawyers, journalists, and
then inexplicably, a couple of housewives. It's very confusing because
they opened with Danielle And my first thought when I
saw Danielle stab who's a real housewif of New Jersey,
actually has nothing to do with Erica Jayane, like not
friends with her, doesn't know her. They just stripped at
(10:41):
the same club. Yeah, I mean whatever. So she sits
down and so immediately I'm like, oh, this has no credibility,
Like we all know, Danielle has no credibility. She's prostitution horror,
she lied about everything, and why are they opening with her.
So my mom told me that she had stopped watching
Housewife and the hustler like she is, like, this is stupid.
I don't want to watch it because they open with
(11:03):
these like people Heather McDonald who have nothing to do
with anything, and it seems like, what even is this?
This is going to be like garbage. Little do we
know later on in the documentary they show that they
have Christopher Darden, Uh what's he from? Good question? The O. J.
Simpson Trial, represented by none other than Sterling Kay Brown
(11:23):
in an adaptation of the O. J. Simpson Trial. These
are the types of big wigs they have. They have victims,
they have perpetrators. They have Girardi Yes, Girardi Kiss legal
consultant slash Angel kim Archie illegal consultant for Gerardi Keys
who was best friends with one of the victims. They
have these big players. Why did they open with Danielle
(11:44):
and they open with fucking Dana that like dollar glasses
from Beverly Hills. No one gives a funk about these people.
I don't know why they did. I mean, Dana is
a hustler in and of herself, and she offered nothing
besides like Erica. Uh so, Erica was on the scene
and Tom was clearly putting money into her shows. I
(12:07):
was like, Dana, shut the funk up, I don't care
what you're saying. She was also saying stuff that we
all knew. She was like I heard they were getting divorced,
and you can hear the producer go, can you elaborate
on that? She says no. And also she had her
own scam things like if she had been like, I'm
also a SCAMMERA at least Danielle was like trying to
equate herself. Like I could see Danielle was like, oh,
(12:27):
I've also faced strife, in the same way that Camille
Grammer tried to say she understood what Brett Kavanaugh had
been through because people also had said she lied, you know,
that classic moment, In the same way that Lisa Rinna
said that her husband had stopped being friends with a
rapist that's why she had to stop being friends with
(12:47):
Denise Richards, right, So like, I think in that same way,
Danielle was trying to say, like, I am also a
spurned housewife, so I get Erica, and she clearly wants
to be friends with Erica in a way that I
found enticing, where she was like making fun of her.
She said, like I respect that Erica sings even though
she can't carry a tune, but she clearly wants like
(13:08):
Erica to text her and say like, hey, I liked
how you came through from me in The House, Housewife
and the Hustler. But aside from that, this ABC News
needed to get someone on the ground who understands Bravo
to be like, you don't need Dana, you don't need Danielle.
These people want the facts. They want the facts. That's
what we wanted, and we got them, but not right away.
I did like the part where they were talking about
(13:31):
I think it was Danielle who was talking about how
you really have to prove yourself to be a housewife
if you want to keep up with a Vicky A Kenya,
Teresa A Candy. We get it, we get it. There's
a lot of real high rollers. Yeah. It also was like,
I don't know in the beginning too, I felt like
(13:54):
they were kind of using clips of Erica that felt
kind of out of context, Like so I was kind
of like, earlier, are they going to have anything good
to go on? I didn't realize they had zoom testimony,
they had recorded phone calls of Tom. I mean, this
was so incriminating for Tom, not that I didn't already
believe everything I've already read about him, which I do. Like,
I know he stole money from victims of some of
(14:17):
the most egregious corporate crimes and just uh basically abhorrent circumstances.
Victims who have been through things we can't imagine he's
stole money from them. So I didn't know that. But
the phone calls, I mean, he's calling people, making up
lies and saying like, don't be mad at me. I'm
a good guy. I mean, by the way, I'm a
(14:38):
really good guy. But you know, I just couldn't make
it happen. It's like, oh, behavior, Yeah, I was like,
on top of everything, you're like a cheesy in cell motherfucker.
You're pathetic, like on top of everything, on top of
being having bottomless greed because you literally live in like
a hundred million dollar mansion with its own church inside
(15:00):
of it in Pasadena. Your wife has a creative director
for her nonexistent pop career that's a hobby, and you
have two airplanes. And then in the midst of this
all you're stealing money from victims and that's not enough
for you. You're so greedy that you also need them
to think you're a good guy. So you're not only
(15:21):
a thief, but you're a thief who actually is worried
about what someone thinks about you after you steal from them.
So all of his calls, he's saying stuff like, don't
be mad at me, and you're a really great kid,
and you know everyone's really upset about what happened to you.
It's really really egregious and speaks of a incredibly dark
(15:42):
person with zero moral compass. And I say this as
someone who loved Erica Jane and bear with Me, loved
Tom Girardi. I thought that they had figured something out.
You know, she re seemed really loyal to him. Whenever
she spoke about him on the show, she spoke about
you know, she mentioned him a lot, and you know
(16:05):
how thankful she was for him. And I remember once
she was talking to Dorry because dorry husband was still
friends with Lisa Vanderpump, even though Dorritt wasn't. And Deret said,
I can't believe that Peaky Pokey whatever Dorit's husband's name
is Pek. She said, I can't believe Peak's friends with
(16:25):
the vander Pumps. Because if someone has a problem with Tom,
they have a problem with me. And I was like, okay, well,
I'm actually looking for that loyalty kind of loyalty in
my life right now. But in any case, I thought
that what they had was worth something. Little did I
know this was a whole fucking money scheme. Yeah, it's
(16:46):
interesting that you bring that up, because that's like all
I could think was Erica Jane. You know, obviously when
she was on Broadway in Chicago, many critics, including my
own mother, were like shocked by that, and they were like,
why the funk is this woman on Broadway? People work
their whole careers to be on Broadway and she just
gets to like walk on because she's a housewife. And
(17:07):
I found myself thinking while watching this, like, you know what,
she actually does deserve to be on Broadway because she's
such a good actress. Like that scene they showed where
he's talking about like not really wanting to be on camera,
and she's like, that's him, that's him. Yeah, he wants
to be in the courtroom, he wants to be in
the office, like and I was like, they do really
seem in love, Like they seem like they have this
great dynamic and it was all an act. And this
(17:29):
is a huge Again not to make this about me,
but I'm going to because I do have narcissistic tendencies.
This is a huge loss for me personally because my
mom and I had a conflict over Erica Jayne. My
mom from the beginning, so she didn't trust Erica Jayne.
She didn't think that Erica Jayne was like a woman
who likes other women. She was like, I just don't
trust her. I don't get the glam squad thing. It's weird.
(17:51):
And I always defended her because I was like, I
think it's amazing that this forty something year old woman
is having a career as a pop star, no matter
how old she does, no matter where she came from,
she just wants to be a pop star. She's doing it.
That's cool. I think her fashion is amazing. I think
she's very like stoic seeming and cool. So I defended
her all these years, and I defended her arrangement with
Tom and just thought like they are in love, they
(18:13):
care about each other, they protect each other. And I
didn't know that I was standing up for disgusting narcissists
who are victimizing people, and so I have to you know,
bite my tongue and and give you know, my mom
the vindication she deserves. I'm unfortunately concerned because there are
(18:34):
many other housewives that I love and my mom is
starting to be like, I don't know about them, and
I'm like, if fucking Leah turns out to be bad,
I'll lose my mind. But she did already say how
much more can we take? I can't take that. But
at the same time, Leah did say that she wasn't
going to vote in the election, So I've already kind
of lost. I'm not I'm not doing great in my
confidt with my mom over housewives. She's clearly been right
(18:56):
about a few, and I've been right about none. Oh.
I think that he also seemed charming to me because
he was this soft smoke and old man who made
a lot of money, who did seem very in love
(19:17):
with his wife, and um just seems like oh um,
and he had, you know, fought these huge evil corporations
in one like, how could you not love that? It's
not like he owned p g n E like he
would sue p g n E. So why can't I
enjoy watching that couple. What a power couple, you know,
(19:39):
and there is just something inherently hot. I think about
like a younger woman and an older man. And when
I say younger woman, older man, I am not capital
end and not speaking of the Amelia Hamlin Scott districts
of the world. I think that's grotesque. I'm speaking about
the thirty year old woman, say moa meeting a I
(20:03):
don't know, Roger Sterling, a k. John Slattery type, and
you know, doing something that is experimental and outside of
my comfort zone. Maybe I keep my clothes on the
whole time. Maybe it takes place in his office. I
don't I don't set the scene, you know. Like what
I'm trying to say is that I like an older,
(20:24):
distinguished gentleman and a younger woman. I think that looks good,
and I don't think. Another thing I liked about the
Erica Jane thing is I like that she was in
twenty five. She was in her mid forties, early fifties.
It's interesting that you say that. I do think that
I would like to see you Carol with an older man.
I really would like to see that. I mean, I
(20:46):
just like I want you to be treated like the
princess you are. And I also I also like think
if you were to potentially get together with someone who
has the funds to pay for all your friends to
go on vacations somewhere, that might be cool. But I'm
just saying, if you happen upon that, just make sure
(21:08):
he's not embezzling funds from victims of you see that. Yeah,
that's the hiccup, you know. I this is my thing
with older men. If they're really pursuing me hardcore, I
think it's creepy. They need to just be surprised by
(21:28):
the age difference and unlikes, you know, again using Scott
Distick as the warning, and be like, I never do this.
It has to be one of those situations. Oh yes, well,
matching with these guys. I've been matching these guys on
Riya and like, for instance, I matched with a fifty
year old photographer the other day on Riya. I would
(21:49):
not like trust photographer. Yeah, yeah, I mean obviously I
trust de Nice. Denise is the only photographer I trust.
My mom also happens to be a photographer in her fifties.
But I did grab um no, this photographer. He was
also just gross. I mean, I hope he's not listening.
But he had like a tattoo of his heart. He
had a tattoo of a heart, like a child's drawing
(22:12):
of a heart, like on his upper chest plate. And
I was like, Okay, so you think you're cool and
you're trying to be hip, and like that's disgusting. Like
I need someone who is professional and like is a
surgeon and thinks that I am like a silly, manic
pixie dream girl. Okay, that's immature of him, Like he
(22:34):
needs to know that you need a surgeon, and if
he say him, then he needs to step aside. Like, honestly, no,
I think being with a surgeon would be awesome. There's
so many options for you. I'm so excited for you,
Like find a surgeon, shame of photographer. Just anything is
at your back and call. And also surgeons, it doesn't
(22:56):
seem like there's a lot of room for scamming as
a surgeon unless they're like actually doctor death, unless they're
doctor death. So just avoid doctor death. No. Can I
just say, speaking of men in powerful positions, the lawyer
guy they have like this lawyer who seemed like he
was cast as like a stereotypical lawyer with a lawyer accent.
Oh my god him. Yeah, And they literally couldn't stop
(23:18):
talking about like being a lawyer. He was like, that's
not what you do. That's not what you do. And
at one point they were like and then it came
out that Tom Girardi was actually stealing money from his clients.
And the guy goes, that's the worst thing a lawyer
could do. I was like, yeah, you think, but he
did graduate from law school. I the first name I
(23:40):
hear about was Tom Girardi. I was like, I'm not
I'm starting to believe that you are not a lawyer.
He said, he is l a law He is l
a law. But okay, but this guy did make a
good point later on which kim Archie also made the
same point, which was that as a class action lawyer,
like someone who takes on big corporate clients in the
(24:02):
defense of like the people, like the people versus the man.
That's Tom Girardi's whole thing. That's like, you know, class
action lawyers, that's what they do. So the stereotypical lawyer
guy and Chris Darden and a couple other experts were
and kim Archie were saying like it was really shocking
to people that Tom went on the Real Housewives and
was like flaunting his house and his jets and how
(24:23):
much money he pays Erica Jaane Like everyone was confused
by that because you're not supposed to represent yourself that
way when you're a class action lawyer is supposed to
be like, there's the rich man, and we're fighting for
the people. And he presented himself as this stereotypical lawyer,
said as like, I'm the man I got all this money.
So that was weird and that never would have occurred
to me because I didn't watch How to Get Away
(24:47):
with Murder. I only watched Scandal and Gray's Anatomy, so
I didn't say I didn't get the law classes of
Shonda Land. So that's where I was. Doctor. Yes, I
know how to fix a crisis. No, I'm not a lawyer.
If you have a condition where you constantly have orgasms,
or a rare condition where your face turns red whenever
(25:07):
you are attracted to someone, these are things that I
know everything about, having watched Gray's Anatomy. Stuck under a
truck during a fairy crash, I'm there. I'm with Wayne crash,
another plane crash, lost on an island after a plane crash,
and there's eight of you, and you all have different backstories. Yes,
I'm there, I can help you. I'm there for you.
I'm there for you. But if it's a law thing,
(25:28):
I all I have is legally blonde. And if it's
product shoes and a perm, I get it. But again,
if it's not those things, I don't get it. So listen,
it's complicated. It's complicated my past. I'm layered. I have
many dimensions because Nda has given me almost two full dimensions,
Shonda and Netflix and Hulu and Issio Max and all
(25:49):
this stuff. And speaking of scammers, Shanda is doing the
Anadelphi series. I know. I cannot wait. I cannot wait.
So this is another thing about criminals. And Anna Delvey,
who's fake Russian socialite who does not is in I
think was in Rikers and showed Nizero remorse as a scammer,
(26:12):
which made me kind of cheerful in a way because
she's still primarily from rich people, not like Tom Girardi
who exploited um incredibly sick and vulnerable people. The craziest
criminals to me are those who steal without even trying
to hide it. So he was just not paying these
(26:32):
people the money that had one in court they're literally
calling him. The part I hated the most was these
two females, one of them illegal consultant, the other one
the mother of a son who was injured in an
awful explosion, are trying to there. They are, you know,
arms deep in paperwork every night, trying to figure out
(26:54):
where the money is basically, and he's just giving them
the run around like, oh, yeah, these things happen, the
money will come next week, da da da, just not
paying them and too you know, their defense. By the
time they realized something really confusing is happening, they said,
where are we going to go? He's friends with the cops,
like he's friends with the judges. Where do we go?
(27:17):
But that was also to speak to what you were
saying earlier about watching him on the Housewives. You're waiting
for money from this guy. And then you turn on
Bravo and you see Erica Jane with her career breaking down,
her tour with her creative director wearing you know, uh
(27:39):
Chanel first slides or her Gucci track suit or whatever,
and it's like, wait, can I have some of that money. Wait,
how hard is it for him to just get me
my money? Yeah? And it's like she she does overtly
brag about a lot of stuff, like and the jet
and like they said in the show, she has a
song called his Expensive to Be Me. Yeah, it's just
(28:02):
really disturbing. Like and again I did catch myself thinking
why didn't I see that this was disturbing sooner? Like
I loved Expensive to Be Me. I rooted for her
when she was making that video. Um, not a single
part of me was like, is it weird for this
like white woman to be seeing a song about how
expensive her lifestyle is? But yeah, can I also just
(28:23):
say that there are two people that are very complicit
in these crimes and I have to name them, and
one of whom is Jay Leno, And to me, I mean,
he's complicit in most crimes of society. He's just he's
just he's some real scum um. So I'm not surprised
that he performed at a Girardi Keys party. But another
(28:46):
complicit member of society we already knew she was complicit
because she slept with Brandy's husband. But that is LeAnn Rimes,
who performed at the Girardi Keys Giardi at Keys Carolina,
Carolina called him Tom Giardia, So now I can't stop
thinking his name is Giardia. Um Leanne Rhymes performing at
(29:07):
their Christmas party, and thank god they included a clip
of it, and she's like, oh how they ring? Oh
how he marry marry Mary marry Christmas. I love that
Liam Rhimes is still just in a corner, just just
trying to put her toe in the spotlight. What does
she have a famous song or something like? She was
(29:29):
like a child's country star, a child country star who
never made a lot of money. I think she was
really hit the charts when she was a child, and
then she grew up and got married. I remember when
I was sixteen ring an interview with her on god knows,
like maybe like TV guide or something, and I don't
know how I got there. I don't know where I was,
(29:50):
and you know, I lacked as cellphone at the time,
so you know, before cell phones, we read stupid ship,
We did cross or puzzles in the back of p
Bowl magazine and the doctor's waiting round like we had
so much, you know, useless stuff to go through. So
I was reading this interview with Leon Rhymes, and she
was talking about her husband at the time. This is
(30:11):
before Eddie Cibrian, and she says, me and my husband
are just like any other couple, except you know, any
other couple doesn't make headlines on newspapers every day. And
I remember you even then thinking, um, you're high. If
you think I've ever seen you like on a newspaper
or a magazine cover, that's a very Randa move. I
(30:33):
feel like Renna is always like, oh my god, the
paparazzi is here, Okay, okay, and it's like they're not
fucking there for you, Mitch, Okay. I have something to
say about Renda too, though Harry Hamlin is really hot.
Harry's getting hotter. Harry Hamlin is hot. Lisa Rerenna, as
Zewey said on Bitch Sesh this week, either she's the
devil or the character she's playing is the devil, and
(30:56):
nothing's ever wrong more true for me. I fucking hate
lis Arena, and I hate how she's like I could
I can give a good blow job, though I'm like,
do you think that's funny? Like we get it, you
like think you're hot? I just think that she's very
defensive of her marriage with Harry Hamlin given the speculation
(31:16):
around it. I mean she's defensive of everything because everything
about her life deserves speculation. It's like, what the fund
is she doing? Yeah, she's always trying to like she
tries to create these like cute moments with Harry where
she's like, Okay, Harry starting your garden. Oh my god, Harry,
like I'm gonna play with this hose and talk about
blow jobs. And it's like, maybe Harry just wants to
(31:37):
have a nice time. Maybe he doesn't want to talk
about sex. Maybe he doesn't want to make blow job jokes.
He just wants to fucking garden. He wants to have
a peaceful moment. He doesn't want to talk about your
fucking drama. Just let him be at peace. I just
find when the husbands are forced to talk about the drama.
But it's like Harry just wants to be at peace.
Like I feel like justice for Harry, Like I want
him to be happy. I don't want him to have
(31:58):
to hear about the blow job jokes all the time.
But yeah, I loved last week when like Maurzio and
and p K had to be like did you see
the girls were talking? Well, meanwhile, like, I don't know
how this is going to play out on the show.
I feel like that clip of the show that was
in Housewife and the Hustler of Garcell asking Erica she knew.
(32:21):
I feel like that's like one of the only clips
I've seen. I feel like they only have like two
or three good moments for real housees with Beverly Hills,
and they're just going to play it out and like
string it out and string it out. It's like they
probably don't really have anything that good, but they're just
drawing it out. I'll keep watching anyway, because I love
my fucking useless content. It's also wild that how much
(32:44):
Erica seems to be enjoying this. Yes, her walking in
with like her weird stoic face and being like hello
and slamming the door like she's here, Yes, she doesn't
love me. I would be literally crying on every angle,
even Teresa Judici. They shook the clip of her walking
into the party after she was in jail. She looked
(33:06):
like I actually felt for her there. She looked like
really uncomfortable and everyone was staring at her. Erica Jane
is not coming off that way, Like I said, she
is an excellent actress where I'm like, oh, you could
be in the next season of Cruel Summer because she
has that like soapy like step mom of a teen
(33:29):
character down pat and she really does evil stepmom, evil stepmom.
They talked about it in House Live in the Hustler too,
They're like, it's really weird that she went on the show,
Like why did she keep when she got so I
don't know. I guess there's debate. It's like some people
really believe that what she's saying, which is that she
had no idea she just one day decided to divorce
(33:51):
Tom out of nowhere, and there's to me, there's no
way that could possibly be true. But most people think
like she had some sense that this was coming. So
in how A Life in the Hustler, they're saying, so
why did she just go on the show anyway? But
I think you're right. Part of it has to do
with like she wants to play the like, yes, it
is happening to me thing. I think that Tom approached
(34:13):
her as like this thing, like the ship is about
to sink and this is how we need to frame it,
and this is what you need to do. You need
to divorce me. Um, I'm going to say that I'm
ill Like he's already doing the Harvey Weinstein thing where
he's saying that like he has dementia and you know,
this is how we're going to try and distract and
(34:37):
deflect or whatever. But she personal question. No, I was
just gonna ask you your opinion on like, what do
you think they're now that we know that she's a
narcissist and he's a monster, what do you think they're dynamic?
Actually was like like once the cameras are off and
they've just done their little like he's always in the
(34:59):
off is he doesn't want to be on TV, like
stick what happens? Okay, this might not align with what
I've just been saying for the past forty five minutes,
but I truly do believe they loved each other and
they cared for each other. They shoot all the markings
for that. Do I believe that negates anything about what
(35:24):
we've been saying about them both being narcissist, truly greedy,
and at the very least for him, incomprehensibly awful person. No,
I think that monsters can love each other. I think
they really loved each other that came through. I don't
think they spend that much time together. I think that
(35:46):
he I mean it was interesting hearing one of the
his clients, a victim of a fire, talk about how
when Tom took him out to dinner, he kept on
talking about Erica and how amazing she was. Look she
bought me this time. I I think, you know, Erica
is objectively a gorgeous person, to be honest, She's prettier
(36:07):
now than she was when she was thirty. And um,
you know Devon as a sister in cosmetic surgery, I
think you can appreciate that she also had a nose
job that served her very well. And I mean, I
don't even know if she needed that nose job, but yeah,
she I think she's stunning. Every time I see her,
my breath is taken away. Even knowing she's a monster,
(36:27):
my breath is taken away. She looks like Anna. Nicole
Smith is also someone that people made a joke out
of it, but if you look at pictures of her,
she just factually is one of the most beautiful women
I've ever seen. Um And I when I say that,
I mean, like, yeah, she's like the hot that I
wanted to be when I was young, like big boob,
like southern big hair closer got hot, So Erica Jane
(36:52):
and sorry, Yes, and that I think that Tom loved that.
I think that he liked that with the way a
lot of men who are trophy wives like it where
they you know, kind of know the person shallowly, and
(37:13):
like a lot of trophy wives, I think she loved
her husband kind of shallowly. He was a nice person.
Did they have to go through anything really hard together? No,
they just hung out in their mansion and she asked
for money to make music videos. I mean this had
me thinking about one relationship I had that that. Yeah,
this time me thinking about my ex my marriage who
(37:35):
was Bernie made off? And I know we've joked about
made off on the pod, but it's actually really serious
and we also, um we also were in love. No
I'm kidding, No, I'm sorry, Like I know they made
off is actually sucked up. I'm sorry. Um, So it
made me think about what you were just saying about.
Like I was in a relationship that lasted a long
(37:56):
time that I often was like, wait, how did that
last so long? How did how did I not see
the problem sooner, and I think that it was the
two things you just mentioned, which is one not spending
that much time together because this person traveled a lot
um for work and like just was really busy and
I was really busy, So we didn't spend that much
time together. Also, didn't go through anything hard together until
(38:18):
later in the relationship, and so it's like, yeah, if
something serious doesn't come up, which it often doesn't, especially
when you're privileged white people, it's hard to see the
cracks and then when something That's why I think we
talked so much about like how COVID affected relationships, because
it was like, oh, everyone's going through something hard right now,
(38:39):
and some people don't ever go through something hard, and
this is how we learn. So I have to say,
and I've never talked about this some pod before, but
something I obsessively think about are all the hot, rich
people who have not made relationships last or work. And
why this helps me is because I look back at
(39:01):
failed relationships in my past and I'll play the what
if game. So what if I didn't move to l A,
What if I had more time to do this, What
if I didn't have this work schedule, and then I
have to remind myself that there are and this is
a point that defn have made before, people who have
(39:22):
had everything at their beck and call. They've had every
access to anything to make life easier. Truly, that's not
even an exaggeration. Any kind of trainer, therapist, driver, fucking
you know people to help them get dressed and put
their clothes on, and still could not make relationships last.
(39:44):
And that helps me because you know, we we blame
it on the hard things, but some people don't even
need hard things, and sometimes, like you're saying, one hard
thing will hit and the whole you know, house of
cards will come down. Yeah, for Erica and Tom, that
was embezzlement coming to light, or probably just that they
(40:08):
were running out of money. Yeah, they were running out
of money. And I'm I'm really going to be on
the edge of my seat to see how this all
plays out. But what I really pray for is money
for the victims. If Erica Jane, as z Way also
said on um Bitch says this week, if Erica Jane
does have any of the money, she needs to give
it back to these people right away. And I just
(40:32):
want to give a final lasting shout out to these
two best friends, Um kim Archie and the mother her
best friend, who is the mother of this man who
was burned in this PGNE explosion. And they said that
they had been friends for forty eight years, best friends
(40:53):
for forty eight years, and they say, quote, I can say,
we've never said an unkind word to each other, which
of course made me immediately think that unfortunately, I can't
say that for Carolina and I we have mostly I
have said many unkind words. I was gonna say. I
watched it, of course immediately thought of Devon thought the
same thing where I said, well, Devon has said some
(41:14):
unkind things to me, for instance, if I'm just gonna
you know, quickly file through memories. There was the one
time that I had a boyfriend when I was twenty two,
and Devon famously did not have a boyfriend at nineteen.
So she told me at a dance that she hated
me from the bottom of her heart. Yes. The irony
(41:35):
is that when she said to me, she was sitting
on my lap like an actual baby, and I was
wearing a purple lace body con dress from bb Um
and a white sequence blazer. So listen choices were made
that didn't need to be made, and if there was
a documentary made about those choices, I would be horrified.
(41:58):
As opposed to these women who are heroes that we
got to watch in this invest women's heroes. I Um,
I don't believe that life gives us stuff. I don't
believe that life gives us just as much as we
can handle. Life gives us more than any human can handle.
Life is so hard. Being a human is very difficult.
And um, I you know, as someone who, as I
(42:24):
reference a lot, has been through my share of medical emergencies,
our medical crises, my heart really went out to these
families and the and the chaos, you know, the after
after effect. Someone recently was talking about how people tend
to reach out right as something bad is happening, and
(42:46):
the best thing to do is to keep reaching out
even after something bad has happened, because you get a
bunch of love at once, and then you know, people
sort of going with their lives, which is natural. This
is normal, normal behavior. I'm sure I've done it. I'm
sure we've all done it because this is normal behavior.
But it's good to keep reaching out to that person
even if they're gonna lie and say they're fine. And
(43:09):
what I loved about these two friends was that they
just kept sticking by each other and they were prioritizing
who to take care of as they're both going through it.
They both had um, you know, awful situations with their sons,
and in that way, I think that there's nothing that
the world can hand us that friendship can't handle. That's
so beautiful. I love that. Thank you. I feel like
(43:34):
I having not been through medical trauma, but having seen you,
one of my favorite people on earth, having to go
through it. I had a new perspective watching this of
just like how these people had to go through one
of the worst things a person can go through, and
then on top of that, go through another of the
(43:54):
worst things people have to go through, which is someone
who you think is on your side turning against you
and actively hard men you, which is just so traumatizing
and I just can't even I think this takes the
cake for housewife scandals. Really, I mean, who gives a
funk about Jojidics tax fraud? To be honest, well, I
(44:15):
think it's interesting. You know, something bad happens, no matter
what the causes, it makes you cynical, right, You start
predicting that bad things happen, you have an embittered, you know,
view on the world, and then on top of that,
someone fucks you over again and he's this rich, fucking
asshole in Beverly Hills. Yeah, you start looking at human
nature as a really messed up situation. So I think
(44:38):
it is actually important to be a witness to that.
I'm glad these people have the chance to tell their story. No,
I don't think that absolves any of their pain. Um,
but at least they at least people see the truth.
At least people see this man for who he really is.
And um, you know, your ex wasn't the worst. Whoever
is listening to this, Your ex is not that bad. Probably,
(45:03):
you know, try being easy on him today unless he
was really a piece of ship. Oh all right, let's
let's go to some some other honorable mentioned scammers partners. Well,
(45:23):
we have to talk about Billy McFarland. We really can't
talk about a scammer. I would never like to talk
about a scammer. Um. And uh, forget Firefest because Firefest documentaries, Um,
there are only two and there should be at least four.
And I need more footage from the island. I need
(45:45):
more footage from the planes and buses. I need more
footage from the night where everyone's trying to find shelter.
I might rewatch, Like I honestly might rewatch, because absolutely
I think that was that was the benefit of that year.
Like it's like I said this here, it's like some
kind of entity out there in the universe was like,
the people need something, I'm gonna give them benefit. I
(46:05):
feel like in twenty nineteen Trump was president, all this
awful ship was happening. Some kind of entity was like,
all right, they're gonna need a firefest, and they made
it happen. But he had this model girlfriend who was
like Billy and you know, in the middle of our
interview runs out of the room to get like answer
the phone. And you're just thinking, of course, of course
(46:28):
you have a girlfriend who can't wait to talk to
you while you're in jail. You know, I mean, I
should be so lucky. I am not in prison. I
currently no legal charges against me. Knock on wood currently
and currently currently I said, and um, no one's you know,
leaving their talking head to talk to me. I know,
(46:49):
I think you and um, your mom and sister and
I had this conversation once about how like there's always
a woman for every man. Like a man can do
whatever the funk he wants, and there there will be
a woman who will like visit him in prison and
like take pictures with him every year in front of
the prison backdrop, you know, like, what's his name, Charlie Manson?
(47:13):
What's his name? Who am I kidding? What's his name? Um?
He's always got different girlfriends, like the Menendez brothers had girlfriends.
People are getting married in prison, people are having affairs
in prison. People are cheating. Like one of the couples
in Love after lock Up, it was like this guy
had two different girlfriends when he was in prison and
was cheating on them with each other. So that's just
(47:36):
the society we live in. But yeah, it was one
of the Firefest documentaries where they're like showing where Billy
is now. It was I think the Hulu one maybe,
but they like we're like, this is where he's at now.
He has a stunning model girlfriend. So it's doing pretty well. Actually,
so actually everything's fine. Um. And she One of the
(47:58):
details I loved from this article in Refinery twenty nine
about her is that it said she's now working with
Silent Models. That's the name of her agencies, Silent Models.
I'm so mad that I didn't think of that and
write it as a joke. Silent Models, they just don't.
They just ate silent model industry. They date the most
egregious white collar criminals and they don't say ship because
(48:20):
they're silent. Yeah. And then she's quoted in this article
saying when Billy and I met, it was destiny. It
was love. I don't know how to explain it, She giggles.
I never had this kind of connection, but he drew
my connection just with my energy. Yep. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep.
I don't know. I want to also say that we
(48:42):
are being sexist. We're only talking about male scammers, and
I really want to just touch quickly on the a
formentioned Aganna Delvi. Anna Delvi was a quote unquote socialite
um much like Audrey Gelman of The Wing. She wanted
to open up her own like Scene Hotel and York City,
a soho ish type club focused on art, and she
(49:08):
stayed at a hotel. She was cash rich, so she
was staying at a hotel and much like Eloise Older.
She was a little bit wild um, but everyone was
charmed by her and she would always tip really well.
And this is again just stealing in broad daylight. She
was always hanging out with people and just not paying,
(49:29):
but because because she fit the mold of what a
socialite dress like, looked like, no one was really counting
their change. She was always hanging out with really rich people.
You know. My favorite story is she asked her friend
I believe it was a playing trip to Venice. She
was like, oh, let's go see um, let's go to
(49:50):
Venice together for this art show. Uh. And he was
like great, and she was like, okay, you buy me
a first class paying ticket and I'll pay you back.
So it pays what likes to get her on a plane.
And he realizes later, oh, I don't know if Anna
paid me back. And she would do that multiple times.
She threw a huge birthday party for herself at a
(50:13):
famous New York restaurant. It costs something like eleven thousand
dollars and the next morning they realized no one had
put down a card. Now that's half on the restaurant,
but also it's not it's you know, because of this
expectation they have around people like this, and and that's
the crazy. Part two is that the people who are
(50:35):
most likely to be greedy are rich. This idea that
desperate people are greedy is simply not true. The people
who are most likely to steal from us are currently
stealing from us. Their name is Jeff Bezos, their name
is Elon Musk, their name is believe it or not,
humanitarian Bill Gates. They are currently stealing from us every
(50:57):
single day that um, you know, they're paying less taxes
than a nurse in Phoenix, Arizona. So they get away
with it because we just simply aren't looking there. There's
these false crime statistics, this idea of a border problem,
and that's where our head goes, is that no, like
(51:18):
Jeff Bezos is an entrepreneur, the American dream, but this
person who's trying to get into America from a country
that we dessemated is actually the problem. Yeah, well because yeah,
it's like Billy McFarland, Like he's just a successful looking
white guy and he because of his privilege. He even
says in his documentary that he doesn't think he'll go
to prison. He's like, why would that happen? To me,
(51:40):
and I mean honestly fair enough, like why would that
happen to a white person? Um in our society? So
people want to believe that they want to believe. I
think that's human nature, and um, you just don't see
it until you do, to be honest, and until then, listeners,
(52:01):
we'll catch you next time on True Romance. Listeners, be well,
Jeff Bezos. Don't be well, Jeff Bezos. Give us our
fucking money, all right. I love you, Devin, love you
by ad. I want true's true true suit sorromantic love
(52:37):
me baby, don't leave me again. I want true
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