January 4, 2024 • 49 mins
Devin and Carolina list their ins and outs for dating in the new year - being a fake cowboy is OUT and being whomever Robert Redford was portraying in the Horse Whisperer is IN and so is self-care and recognizing that the bare minimum is the bare minimum and so much more is ranted about in this all new episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, I want.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
and this is Devin Leary.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Happy New Year to our listeners and to you, Devin,
Happy new Year. Obviously, we're thrilled for the new year,
as you could hear. I actually am very excited because
I like, I would like to close the door in
twenty three. I would also like to close the door
on twenty twenty two, in twenty twenty one and twenty
twenty and actually twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen as well. I
(00:45):
would just like to close the door to a few
years that feel like they have lasted forever.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I actually wrote about this on my substack if anyone
wants to read. It's four's the plug, the number for
the th drama d r A m A for the
drama dot substack dot com. Which is that I like
spent a lot of this year being like cannot wait
for this year to be over. This year socks, just
(01:12):
because of like the basic facts of like my New
Year's post this time last year was like I'm so
grateful for twenty twenty two because my I met my
boyfriend at so and so and then like got dumped.
Then my cat got sick, then got back together, broke
up again, then all the friggin' shit, all the joys
(01:34):
of a post breakup. But at the same time, I've
had a realization that like, for me, I feel like
the year designations kind of me nothing because it's like, Okay, yes,
this was a really hard year. At the same time
I started EMDR, I had like a total breakthrough this
(01:57):
year that I've like never had before. As much as
I felt like I've always been like really self searching,
I've always been like trying to better myself. I honestly
have never loved myself and made that breakthrough until this year.
So this is the year I learned how to really
like have self esteem and care for myself. And that's
(02:17):
like so priceless that I can't really say, like fuck
twenty twenty three. Also I got my cats, also, like
I started going to school again. Like a lot of
cool stuff happened this year, as much as it sucked,
So I'm also like twenty twenty four is probably gonna
suck sometimes and it's also probably gonna have some cool stuff.
So I'm trying to think of it like for myself,
(02:40):
like I really want to work out more. I really
want to like cook for myself more, and I should
do that any damn day of the week. This is
a healthy perspective to have.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
And something I was thinking about before we were recording
was like, what am I proud of for twenty twenty three?
Because my sort of habit is to be like, fuck that,
fuck the past. I'm so resentful at everything that's happened
to me for the past five years and you know,
maybe thirty four. And I started driving this year like
(03:15):
something I never thought I was going to do again,
And I started, like you said, I started exploring an
amdr like what would it mean for me to truly
love myself without condition? Not thirty pounds later, not without scars,
not like what would it mean to truly love myself?
And that's something I'm definitely not at breakthrough point yet,
(03:36):
but that's something that me and my therapists talk about
a lot. And I'm proud of facing fears this past
year because that can open the door to war fears
that I feel like are impossible to face.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But speaking of the new year, we would like to
read our ins and outs.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
A lot of people have.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Been posting these some of them have been sincere, some
of them have been jokes.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Mine are sincere. I actually had a really fun time
making this list. It's ins and outs for dating, though, right, yes,
for dating, okay, not just regular ins and outs.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Not just regular ins and outs like outs drinking water,
ins drinking soda. I'm not doing that. I'm definitely just
talking about for the most part, love love luff. Okay,
I will start with.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
One of mine. Okay, one of your inns.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I'll do an in and out, sure, go ahead. So
ends would be the standouts on Hinge. I just found
out about standouts. It is my favorite new dating app.
Basically like Hinge sucks whatever, they're all terrible, but standouts
on Hinge are basically when they pull like probably the
most liked guys, or like they pull like five hot
(04:55):
guys for you to send roses to.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And I just.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Love actually seeing hot guys that are like like, I
just like it. It's just so it's such a relief
from seeing fucking no offense to all humans out there,
but like Boso after Boso after boat like no no no,
just constantly swiping left to actually seeing cute guys is
such a relief and so nice that I find myself
(05:21):
buying these roses, like you know, I'm at the fucking
farmer's market and sending them out and that is my
in my out.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Wait, can I just say one thing? Yeah, it's it's
not just it's not I mean, this is maybe just
gonna This isn't a burst your bubble. But it's not
just hot guys. The Standouts are the people that are
most compatible Hinge things for you.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, and I love them. I love each guy they
show me and I don't care that I haven't gotten
a like back from them. I just like seeing them
because they're so much better than the usual lot. Okay,
so I recommend everyone check out Standouts on Hinge. It's
basically my new favorite dating app. And that is what
I think is in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
What is out is Rayah, I'm done. I'm done.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
What a waste of time and fucking money twenty dollars
a month? Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I haven't matched with like Pete Davidson. And let's like
be honest by why we're all on there. We think
we're gonna match with some like high profile person. It
is so meaningless. It's like it's my It's for our
worst instincts, I believe. And there are so many horrible
people in there, like just they look like AI creations
(06:35):
of like fashion and crypto, and I live in Switzerland.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I am just so over it. I think it's a
horrible dating app.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I I tried to delete it, but basically my account
expires in like ten days, and I could not wait
for it.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
To be gone.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Une be gone. And that is one of my ins
and my outs love it.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay, so my first in is for dates coffee or
ice cream. The reason is, first of all, as someone
actually said to me on a first date recently at
a coffee shop, like it doesn't really make sense to
I mean I don't drink anyway, but it doesn't really
(07:26):
make sense to like have your first date be doing
something where you're losing touch with your best intentions, like
if people are drinking or whatever. Even just like being
in a bar, it's kind of like an environment of
like I'm trying to like escape at all. It's like
you shouldn't be escaping when you're trying to get to
(07:47):
know someone. You should be present. And well, this is
speaking for myself, it's like really important for me to
be present and in my body and feeling my feelings
when I'm meeting someone romantically. So first of all that
second of all, the key thing with coffee and ice
cream is to go. Both of these items can be
(08:07):
taken to go. I usually now, like if it's unless
it's like someone that I have a pretty good sense about,
Like I don't even order anything when I first get
to the date. In case, as has happened to me,
after ten minutes, I have to be like, you know what,
I have to go, or like I don't feel well
or something like that. That means you don't have any
(08:28):
responsibility to stay. But even if you go to a bar,
like if you don't order something and the other person
gets a drink, then you're like, oh, so now I
have to wait for them to finish their drink. No
coffee or ice cream cardboard containers if it sucks, or
if you have to pretend you're sick, or if you
have to pretend something happened, just oh, I gotta go,
and I guess I'll be taking this on the go.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And then guess what you have ice cream? And guess
what you have ice cream for coffee? My favorite thing
of all time.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I'm mochacino. Okay, my out. My first out is bars.
As I said, I already kind of explained this. Bar
dates are stupid. Also, like I feel like everyone kind
of knows when you walk into a bar and like
you sort of half hug someone and say like, hi,
how are you? Everyone knows what you're doing. Everyone knows
(09:16):
you're on a first date. They're all like getting off work.
They have nothing better to do than fucking listen and
judge the fact that you're on a first date. Don't
do that. It's dark, you can't hear. You're screaming over
each other, and it it's not viable. Also, like the
tabs thing is confusing. It's like who is opening a
(09:36):
tab whatever? Just no, just get your coffee, get your
ice cream. It's fine. I completely agree.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I have had first dates and bars and it just
felt kind of pointless. One of my inns, speaking of
dating apps and meeting up with people, my inns for
twenty twenty four texting immediately to meet up. Let's not
waste time texting when we do not or messaging on
hinge when we do not have anything to say to
each other, because we simply do not know each other.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Let's get this out of the way.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
We're both going to be completely normal and hopefully not
weird via text, and so if we like each other,
let's just meet up in person. I don't have time
to waste and I'm done with like, okay, what do
you do?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Let's just meet up in person and see if there's
chemistry here. My out would be asking someone how it's going.
I do not want to have conversations where I'm I'm
not gonna tell you like, ah, actually work has been
crazy and I'm having sort of like an existential crisis
about life, Like we're just not gonna be honest with
each other about how it's going. So let's again just
(10:43):
meet up, meet in person, and you know, see if
we have that jinesiquah, that feeling when you meet someone
and you're immediately either like ah, no, not this person,
or you're like, wait, this be really cool.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Okay interesting, because my next are connected to that. And
I will say that my next in and out is
is founded on a sort of three day three to
five day rule. For me personally, I've done a couple
of just immediately going on a date before like chatting
(11:22):
a little bit, and then I'm kind of like I've
had the experience of being like, oh, this person, Like
I would have saved a lot of time by like
realizing that this person isn't actually interesting, you know what
I mean. Like I've like gotten all the way to
the day after work, I'm tired, and I'm like, Oh,
if I had chatted with this person more, I feel
like I would have realized they're kind of boring. So
(11:42):
I like to chat with someone a little bit three
to five days, few messages here and there, but something
that became really interesting over the holidays. As I was
I was both on the apps and like chatting with
people that I have like met off the apps, but
have an actually gone on a date with yet. And
this is the thing, why am I Like I actually
(12:06):
witnessed going from like oh, and like, what are your
holiday plans? Okay, we just started chatting. Sure, that's like
a fine question. If we're getting to the point where
then you're saying, and what are your new Year's plans?
Why haven't we made a date yet? I don't need
to tell you what my new year's plans are. Why
are we still talking? It's been two it's a second
holiday already now, so let's it's like I don't want
to keep telling you, oh, and how is you? It's like,
(12:27):
let's my inn is acknowledging. We are basically strangers, so
chatting can only go a certain amount, like we're not
gonna be able to really even like once you're saying, oh,
I'm home with my family, Okay, well I don't know
your family. We don't actually know each other, so that
isn't really fun for me to talk about and acknowledging.
(12:47):
Like the chatting is interesting as a vetting period, but
once it goes beyond that, I want to know what
we're doing. There needs to be like a deadline, like
I don't really want to be aimlessly telling a stranger
out in the world doing god knows what how my
holidays were. So my out is chatting for more than
(13:09):
three days slashed to the point where it gets to
like personal questions about like I don't know, like I
feel like over the holidays too. It is like this
one guy was chatting with it's like, oh, how is
your Christmas? And we both started being like, oh, it's
like stressful, but we're not gonna really tell each other
why because we don't know each other, and the reason
is because of interpersonal familial things that are way too complex.
(13:30):
Like once it gets to that point, just there needs
to be a plan made, and if you don't make
a plan. I actually posted like one of the most
stunning photos of myself I've ever taken in a bathroom
mirror last night, and I felt like I'm putting this
post out onto Instagram to show you people that have
let this amorphous chatting go on for way too long.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You see, you could have been on a date with
someone this stunning by now, but because of your own problems,
you're not not sad. That is sad.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
And I I have had an experience too where you
are doing really well via chat until you meet in person,
and obviously like we all have, but I mean that like, oh.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
My god, you're making me laugh.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I'm making you laugh, and you're putting so much energy
and it's like, sorry, I have a text this guy
back that I met online.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
He's like, so great, We're meeting up for coffee. I'm
so excited. Yeah, and then you meet.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
In person, It's like no, and I just wasted like
seventy two hours, like frantically trying to make do bits
with you like no, yeah, so I do think there's
something too, Like you said, finding out quickly three to
five days.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Normal normal, normal, normal.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Not boring, kind of interesting, great, but not putting in
too much pressure on the situation.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And knowing that the real test is.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Skin to skin contact and that that I mean either
a half hug, yes, my next in and out in
making out and what I say making out, I really
(15:16):
think that like making out is like a lost art.
And I'll speak for myself for myself, I love kissing,
and I feel like I I don't know if it's
a mixed of like people pleasing or like just being exciting,
like being excited like I always was just like let's
(15:37):
get to sex like opicially, and like was always frantically
getting to like have sex like so soon, or like
I remember telling one guy like I'm so glad we
waited and he's like, I'm known you for like forty
eight hours, and like a virgin, I'm like, so glad
we waited till I knew your last name. And I
just think that like the things I remember aren't like
(15:58):
the first time I like had sex with someone, they're
always like the first time I kissed someone, and like
how exciting that felt. And I just want to like
lean into that excitement and sort of like not put
so much pressure on a situation to like have sex immediately.
And my out is having sex. I just like think that,
like I put so much pressure on having sex, and
I just feel like one of the reasons I'm have
(16:21):
always been like, oh my god, I don't want to
like meet someone I'm not ready is because like I
always think, like because I don't want to like get
naked in front of someone immediately. And it's like, why
is that my fear? Why am I already jumping to
like getting naked in front of someone.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
What if I just took sex out of the equation.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
For a little bit and like was just like I'm
meeting someone to see if we like each other and
then maybe like eventually we'll kiss.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Why does it have to.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Be like and then quickly we are going to have
to have sex, Like I don't have to have sex
with anyone, Like I don't know, I just that sounds
extreme and I'm not trying to be extreme. I guess
what I'm saying is that I used to be really extreme,
and like guys have described me that way, and I
just want.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
To like Carolina, She's extreme, truly. Like whatever games you
ever seen the X Games, that's Carolina Rose Barlaw for you,
have you ever seen Sean White at the X Games?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yep, that's Carolina doing flippity flops on her snowboard. So
I just need a little bit of less pressure on myself.
And I'm not saying that sex is illegal now, or
you know, dancing is out a lot in this little town.
I'm just trying to say that I want to take
(17:39):
the pressure off myself because it makes dating all that
more intimidating.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Okay, well, I you're kind of changing my order in
a good way, because I have one related to that too.
My in is communication and out is spontaneity. Ooh, I
loves what I'm gonna say. When I was in my
early twenties, you know, tell me we're leaving on a trip.
This actually happened to me. I mean, I am grateful
(18:06):
to have dated some rich men in my early twenties.
It's like an experience that I think girls should find
if they can. But I did have the experience of like, Okay,
I booked us a hotel tonight, we're going, get in
the car, we're going, and it's like in my early twenties, great,
like yeah, I would love that, but now you know,
(18:30):
or just like in my early twenties showing up to
a party, Oh my god, like am I gonna make
out with this? Like that was really fun, but at
this age, I feel like that's like stressful time. I
don't need that. So like I went on a few
dates with this person and we both like this was
a while ago. Didn't actually work out. We didn't, we're
(18:52):
better as friends whatever, long story, but we went on
a few dates and after like the third date, we
had a conversation where we both were like, I'm really
nervous that I like that we should kiss, Like we
haven't kissed yet, it's going to have to happen, Like
we're both nervous, and we talked about it in a
way that was like so fun and like still flirty
and cute, but like safe feeling where we were like,
all right, let's decide we're gonna kiss tonight. It's gonna happen,
(19:15):
so like we just are gonna do it and it's fine,
and that was fun. I don't personally I do not
like kissing in the street. For me, it's uncomfortable when
it's a first date. If we're if we're like fully dating,
who cares. Then I love like a public thing. I
love making out in public at a birthday party or
whatever the fuck. But if it's like a first date
for some reason, it's like I feel awkward. I feel
(19:37):
like people are looking and I don't like that, and
I prefer like a makeout to happen in private. So
it's like but at the same time, like you said,
I don't want to be like taking strangers home to
make out my apartment. So I feel like in for
me is communicating and like getting to know someone and
then feeling safe and talking about like, now, are we
gonna have our first kiss? Do we both feel into it?
(19:59):
Let's do it as opposed to like, let's force this
like spontaneous thing that makes us both uncomfortable. So in
communication out spontaneity.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I love this and it really speaks to my PTSD
because I have been so scared of looking uncool. By
the same time, I just need to be vulnerable kind
of quickly because of like just trauma shit, Like I
have so much baggage in terms of like I don't
really want to drive far. I have covered in scars,
(20:30):
which I'm sure our listeners are sick of hearing. I
and my therapist was like, you're just gonna have to
be vulnerable faster than other people. But that's like the
key to intimacy. So if we're scared of being vulnerable,
it's fine. We don't have to tell everyone like our
family history when we first meet them. But at the
same time, like you said, like we can communicate and
(20:50):
be vulnerable because that's what we're looking for, is someone
to be vulnerable with. And if they can't handle that,
then they're the wrong person anyway.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And let's be let's be real about it. As a
conversation I had with some friends recently, like like, sexual
tension is awkward, Like let's be real about that. It's
not like in the movies. It's not like, oh my god,
like this. It's not like, you know, it's hot to
watch movies and TV shows where it's like will they
(21:17):
won't they? But in real life you're like, oh my god,
this is so awkward. Like our feet touched under the table,
like it's like a spark, but it's like scary and
awkward and like weird and you're like, what's gonna happen?
So let's be real about that and be real for
me personally that like I have much better sexual experiences
when I get to know someone and can like ask
for what I want and be like, yeah, this is
(21:39):
actually messy and weird and scary and like fucking acknowledge that,
like so that it's like yeah, if it's interesting, Like
there's I feel like there was so much pressure too,
like when you're younger and you're like, oh my god,
or as a woman at least or in my personal experience,
it's like, oh my god, Like I don't know if
I'm gonna have an orgasm, Like oh my god, what
(21:59):
if I don't, It's like who cares, Like just be
like yeah, I don't think I'm gonna come tonight. Great,
Like you know what I mean. It's just being human
and accepting that. Also, Like I feel like that takes,
like you said, like the pressure away from the other
person too. It's like, hey, let's be honest about how
we're actually feeling about our bodies and ourselves. As lame
(22:21):
as that sounds, that will lead to I think, much better,
hotter sex.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I completely agree, and I think that's something that we
are forgetting about, is how weird sex is.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's so weird. It's extremely good.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes, it's awkward, and for someone who's sober for it,
it's it's even weirder.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's so strange.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
And that doesn't mean that it's not like enjoyable and
wonderful and sometimes like really beautiful. But sex with a
new person is like it's just really like you said,
it's awkward. It's not like there yet. I know married
couples who for the first time they had sex described
it as awkward, like yeah, because you don't know this
person's body and you're feeling very self conscious, or at
(23:05):
least I'll speak for myself, I am. Maybe you're like
wonder woman and super confident, but I really believe that
being vulnerable and communicating will give you a sign of
if the person, like you said, like, if the person
you're with is capable of doing that too, then that's
(23:27):
a really good indicator. If you don't feel safe or
you feel like you have to like exhibit some coolness
when you're not feeling that way, then like that's to
me a symptom of this might not be a safe
place for me totally. And I don't mean that in
like a dangerous way. I mean that in a way
of like, this might not be a safe place to
park my feelings if I feel like I have to
act cooler than I feel. Yeah, Okay, this is a
(23:51):
risky one. And I say risky because I don't know
how you're going to react to it.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
In working out together out photo booth pictures together, I
want to talk about this for a second. In working
out together, I really like working out with a person.
I just think it's fun. I haven't had like a
man in the past do it with me because I've
(24:17):
always been self conscious that like I sweat did it.
But at the same time, after a workout, I've never
felt more beautiful or sexy. So I'm like, why can't
I just find someone to do this with that would
be so nice to go on dates where we like,
you know, feel like we're bettering ourselves or like building
a good habit. I just think, like why not? And
(24:37):
I don't like working out alone. I find it like
exciting and fun to do it with someone, and so
like that's something that I'm definitely looking for in a
partner is someone to like be active.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
With photo booth pictures.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Why those aren't out is because I think they are
literally the braggiest thing of all time. I think people
posting photo both pic with their partner is like a
rite of passage. Now I've done it. I'm so sick
of it. I hate it. I hate seeing it. And yeah,
maybe that's a little bit, you know what. And if
you're someone who posts that, I'm bitter because I want
(25:14):
to be with someone. So maybe a lot of this
is bitterness. But I'm done. I think they're done. I
think we've seen it all. We've seen the laughing, We've
seen the goofy faces, we've seen the kissing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
No one's being creative. No one's getting.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Buck naked like I would and like actually like make
something that like is cool and exciting to see.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
It's all the same. Okay, I just have to say,
you're genuinely saying you would get Buck naked in a
photo BOVI and post it on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I have done exactly that when like literally ten years ago. Okay,
so like come on, no, not come on, I mean
I only Shreira for Valentine's Day. I got him a
framed picture of a photo booth where I'm taking my
top off.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh that's different, Like I meant like you're talking about
posting on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
I think yeah, and I did, and then I after
I gave it to him, we broke up and I
got it back and my friend was like, you really
shouldn't do that, and I was like, it's a naked
picture of me.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Wait, so how did you post it?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Then I took a picture of it with my iPhone,
but of you naked? Oh no, it was like me
clearly taking my shirt off.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But it was like above, Okay, so now we're getting
to the but you could tell I was naked. It
was still risque with a UI. Well, I think that's cute.
But I this is the thing, like if I saw that,
I don't remember seeing that, but like if I saw
your photo with picture, I'd be like, I love that.
I love I don't think it's I think it's a
(26:52):
thing of personal preference. Personally, I love photo with pictures.
I think they're really cute. I actually saw someone who
proposed in a photo boot redently yeah, and it's like
I like that, So personally I like that.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, that's cute. I agree with that. That's cute, but
I guess it's like what I'm aiming for.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So it's not so it's in or it's out, it's out. Okay,
And I don't personally like to work out with someone,
but that's fine if you like that, But that actually
ties into my in and out of I think in
is self care and recognizing that the bare minimum is
(27:29):
the bare minimum. So wow, it's funny. I was just
talking to a friend about a first date I went on,
and I was like, and he like works out every morning,
like he takes care of himself. Meanwhile, I don't do that,
so I guess, like I am a hypocrite, but I
just think self care. Like when a man, especially since
it's so rare for men, when a man like not
(27:52):
only says like, oh I like working out. I like
working out because it helps me focus. Like for a
man to even know why he like something. It's like
I dated this guy that said he liked that book
like Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow or whatever it's called,
and I was like, oh, do you like that? And
he's like, yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I was like, Oh,
what do you like about it? And he's like, I
(28:12):
don't know, like as if I was like attacking him.
He's like, I don't know. I mean I just like it,
like I don't know that is so, and it's like
pull out. Yeah. It's like they it's like they don't
even think. They're not present in their own being and
body enough to even say, like why I enjoy orange juice.
So when a man can say like I like this
for this reason, I like taking walks, so I can
(28:33):
like think about things like that's in for me. But
I also have to recognize it as the bare minimum,
because it's the same thing as like this date I
was talking about, I was like, oh, and he like
stood up when I walked into the coffee shop and
like pulled out my chair. That's the bare minimum. Yet
I rarely ever encounter that, like the thought to be like, oh,
do you want to sit at the booth or the chair?
(28:53):
Like the bare minimum of thoughtfulness. Recognizing that is in
and also the thoughtfulness and self care is in and
then out casual carelessness. If I don't care if you
think you look cool, I don't care if you skateboard
without a helmet, Like that's not for me. That's out.
I'm not. I'm not careless with myself or my life,
(29:16):
so it's out for me to be with anyone who's
careless enough with themself or their life that they're like
binge drinking, skateboarding without a helmet, or not sleeping and
not caring that they're not sleeping. Like just all that
stuff just get out. I know.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
I swipe left on a guy recently who was just
with smoking, and I was just like, I'm over smoking.
I can't be a smoker. I'm like, I don't judge
you for smoking. I did it for ten years. I
loved it. But I just am looking for someone who
has the same goals as me to like eventually start
a family. And like, I'm sorry, but you posting a
picture with yourself and a beer and a cigarette doesn't
(29:57):
say that to me.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yes, like that that is exactly I'm talking about too.
Like I know, I can like picture you say, posting
a picture with a beer and a cigarette. I can
picture so many profiles and it's like they have like
they're literally wearing like a mullet and like a cowboy hat,
and like think, it's like you've never been on a ranch,
you know what I mean? It's like it's one thing
for the on a ranch. You've never been on a horse,
(30:19):
the horse Whisperer, or like the like whatever Robert Redford
like whoever, not Robert Redford himself, whoever he was playing,
was that him and the horse whisper by the way,
I think so, yes, whoever he was representing, like those people.
If you're from Montana, if you bet on a ranch
and you're smoking cigarette and a beer with a mullet
and a hat. Great. If you live in green Point
(30:40):
and you work in coating and you have a mullet
and a hat and you're smoking and drinking a modello,
you are not cool. To me. I don't like that.
That's out for me, that's out. So that goes into
another in and out, not to come in front of you,
but to me in his earnestness, like literally, where a
fucking graphic T shirt from Target? If that's earnestly what
(31:04):
you like, and it says pumpkins, spice and everything nice,
If that's earnestly what you love. I love that. I
love that wear that and out is.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I love the idea of going on a date with
someone who is wearing that. I would like it, and
I'll probably be like, I'm in love with you because
that's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Right, like, that's amazing, that's actually amazing earnestness and then
out is just this fucking cool. And that's why I
also say, for me, when earnestness is in, then field
F E E L D is out and I have
I have like represented for field. In the beginning, I
was like, this is where you will find men who
are open to talking about sexuality. No, this is where
you will find men who think they're cool because they
(31:47):
put like words that they don't even mean what they are.
Find a man on field and message him asking what
does GGG mean? What do you mean you're a dom
leaning switch? Ask them what that means and see if
they can actually respond. They just think that they sound
cool and they don't and they don't and they think like, yeah,
I'm on field, Oh sorry, like I'm on field, like
I'm a little bit more exploded. They're the same types
(32:10):
as like these hippies that drive me crazy and documentaries
about the sixties where I'm like, you're just a white
dude from the suburbs, Like you don't know anything about
peace and love, like you just have long hair. It's
like the same thing, like get out, you're out. Yere
Field is the woodstock of our time, and some people
are gonna listen to that and think like, oh, so
(32:31):
Field is cool. No, woodstock wasn't cool. Field isn't cool.
Get out, it's out.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
I really would like to add an asterisk and add
that men dressing in cosplay as ranchers are out as well. Yeah,
they're just because I really appreciate that. I think that's
not even niche. I think that's something that's widespread in
this nation at this point, and I do believe it's out. Yes,
my in gaining weight for men, my out losing weight
(33:10):
for men. And I'll explain this as someone said recently
to me, which I loved so much. I dare you
not to fuck me because I've gained weight. I dare
you to be such a loser that you think that
because I have extra weight on my bones, I am
no longer sexual. In fact, this makes me more sexual.
I think that I've had so much shame about like
(33:31):
weight gain in my like years on this planet, and
recently I've just been like, fuck, that are you kidding me, Like,
I believe that if you're I'm sorry, this is my opinion.
If you're a real like man who's settled into himself,
this does not come into your consciousness at all.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Agree one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And as Cheryl Strait put it once on her podcast,
she was like, my weight's vacillated, like literally one hundred,
like a hundred pounds back and forth. And She's like,
my husband could prefer me at a weight, but he
would never tell me that because it doesn't matter to him.
So it's like, you could prefer me when I'm skinny,
but if I've gained weight, it's going to be a
neutral topic for you. And that's what I think, like
(34:16):
I'm aiming for is someone who loves me unconditionally, no
matter what fat, skinny you know, Uh, whether I've like
put effort into like wearing makeup or if I'm like
just myself watching garbage Ronie for like five hours straight,
having eaten cookies for lunch. I just think that, like,
(34:37):
I'm looking for unconditional love, and I'm fine with gaining
weight because that is what I'm looking for, and losing
weight for love makes me more insecure.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Like if I'm on that track.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I will be more insecure, I'll act more insecure, I'll
act more like because how can I be myself if
I think that's what you're interested in?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, and I also off that think that attraction should
be unconditional, even with or without love, like cause for me,
I read this book I've already talked about on the
pod Tragedy The Tragedy of Heterosexuality by Jane Ward. It's amazing.
Everyone should read it. And she talks about like how
(35:18):
if she's attracted to someone, like she's attracted to their
whole thing, Like there's not like one thing on their
body or presentation that it's like, okay, now now that
you did that, Like never mind, I'm not turned on
and so thinking back on like all these men that
I've dated that's said things like I don't like literally
this guy that I dated said like I don't like
(35:39):
when you wear your hair like half up like that.
I only like when you wear your hair down. Okay, Well,
then something's wrong with you that that small thing makes
you not attracted to me or turned off enough that
it's like worth mentioning because I'm so hot and stunning
as a whole being. How could one small hair clip
(36:00):
make a difference for you? Maybe you need to analyze that,
Maybe you need to think about that. And I will
be attracted to someone whether or not their hair is
half up or half you know what I mean. Like
to me, it doesn't work like that because I'm able
to see people as a whole human being.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
My college boyfriend on our first date told me to
grow my hair longer. On my first date with my
college boyfriend, he told me to grow my hair longer.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
That something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
And I'll say that that took me years to recover from,
and that it sounds crazy, but it's like someone presented
conditions for what they found attractive, and that set up
a very toxic dynamic.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I'll say, yeah, I know. No, I notice myself. I
noticed myself like pretty recently being like, oh I can't
wear my Oh I can't put my hair half up.
Yes I can. I like the way it looks. But
it's all this like thing of yeah, like and that's
how we're conditioned too, Like I remember being in heighth
thinking that way. It's like I have to have my
hair in my face. That's what looks good, that's what whatever,
and so it's not our fault that we start to
(37:07):
think that way about ourselves and that that like damages us.
It's it and it's not their fault. I just think
it's like some of these that I've only experienced it
in men. So I'll say, some of these men need
to like analyze why they're so affected by a hair
clip or like a bit extra makeup, or it's like
something's going on with you that you're only attracted to
(37:27):
such a specific thing. Okay, and maybe you should talk
to someone about that.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Let me say in for me is running it by
the group chat. So I feel like there's so many
feelings and hormones and nervousness and stress and cortisol and
whatever and all that stuff involved in a first date.
There's so much societal conditioning. It's like, oh, I know
what my out is. There's so much societal conditioning that
(37:55):
like it kind of can happen in a blur, and
you come away sometimes either being like, oh my god,
that was amazing and not noticing the flaws, or oh
my god, that wasn't good and not noticing that there
could have been potential. So I have recently started I've
found a group chat with people's opinions that I feel
safe and comfortable with, and or even if you can
just find one.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Okay, well I haven't heard of said chat, but I
can imagine that it must be really fun to be
a part of.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well also even if you just find one person too,
it's like just say I just had a and it's
like helpful. I think too if it's with some single
people or some people who are married or whatever. But anyway,
like say, I said this state was good, and my
friend asked me what was good about it? And that
made me stop and think that I did notice things
that maybe we were both nervous, Like it wasn't like perfect,
(38:46):
everything's perfect now we're getting married. It was like this
was good about it. That helps me realize in the
future I should look for this and then also have
had the experience of being like that was bad he
said this one weird thing that was bad, or like
he did this one and it's like, well, like I
think some people do weird stuff on the first date
because they're nervous because of all this stuff. So it
helps to just pause, like think about, Okay, what was
(39:07):
that and is that really worth another day? Another two
hours of my time or is it not? And is
should I be jumping ahead to looking for our future
shared home on Zillo or not? So in pulling people
asking what they think about this experience out blanket dating advice,
it doesn't work. Every situation is different everyone. Like this
(39:30):
goes back to the first time I lived with a boyfriend.
We started dating and like literally six months later moved
in or four months I think moved in together. I
asked someone about it. I was like, I know this
sounds insane, I know this is crazy whatever, and she
was like, it's not like everyone's situation is different. You
live in New York, your leases are weird whatever. I
(39:50):
didn't end up staying with that person, but we dated
for three years and we lived really well together. So, like,
you never know what so much situation is. When you
say stuff like you just got to put yourself out,
the more think about the person you're talking to. Some
people that apply to some people, it doesn't. I think
there's certain things that work like for everyone, which is
I don't know, like, yeah, like you said, like it's
(40:12):
good for everyone to like be vulnerable. But at the
same time, when you say these blanket things of like, well,
if you if you want to like be married, then
you need to start thinking like this. It's like not
everyone has to do that. Yeah, So in is group
chatting about dates. Out is blanket solutions for dating.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I love that, especially the blanket solutions part. I just
feel like I've used people's blanket solutions to beat myself up,
beat myself up with like I have to go on
the apps. I have to be more active on the
apps because that's how I'm going to meet someone.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
What if that's not how I'm going to meet someone?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
What if that is like something that's been like pushed
on me because it's a very like convenient way to
meet someone. But what if I can be resistant to
them and listen, I'm I'm partaking in them more because
I'm actually finding it more enjoyable with my again plug
for hinge.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
But I am.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Going to, like you said, allow myself to have an
individual experience and not to use people's advice as the
only way to find love. So I appreciate that my
inn this is going to it's not going to seem
related to dating, but it in fact is the only
way I'm going to date. My INN is amdr therapy.
My out is talk therapy. So we've talked a lot
(41:32):
about this on the pod recently. Both Devin and I
are in AMDR. What I'll say is that I've gotten
so much out of talk therapy my whole life. I've
been in therapy on and off since i was fourteen
years old. I will say, I'm ready to go deeper,
and I'm ready, and therapy has been with AMDR harder
because it's not just like, well, you should love yourself
(41:53):
and this is, you know, like the habits of someone
loving themselves. It's more like, okay, so at what age
did you determine you were unlovable? And let's go there
and let's really feel like what that felt like. It's exhausting.
I'm usually exhausted by the end of it, but it's
actually helping me progress and really see like what I will.
(42:14):
It's helping me become more brave, and that is what
I'm going to need as I get into my next
relationship and really ask for what I'm asking for, which
I've never felt like I could. Like it's truly brave
to be like, I need a man who loves me
no matter what, and I'm going to go out into
the world and see if I can find that that
is a brave thing to do. The easier thing to
(42:34):
do is like I'm going to meet someone who can
stand me, and who I can stand like I and
and who maybe will like consider me sometimes, Like I
think it's brave to go for true love and it's
the most optimistic thing you can do. And I can
only do that if I'm healing parts of myself that
(42:55):
believe that that's not for me. I can only do
that through AMD therapy. I can't afford to do it
weekly as I've been doing, so I've been trying to
do it bi weekly. But for anyone who feels like
I have baggage, I'm to traumatize, I'm broken, quote unquote, like,
I really highly recommend it. And for talk therapy, I
(43:16):
recommend anyone in therapy. I recommend anyone who's just like
digging into themselves. But I think like, if you've been
in therapy for years like I had been, and you're
just looking for you know, my my talk therapist was
basically like, you need trauma therapy, Like I cannot help
you with this, Like you need someone to go deeper
and to really work on this stuff with so that's
(43:38):
what I'm doing, and I feel like I'm becoming braver,
like I said, And when I'm really brave er than
I am now, I feel like I'll be ready to
ask someone like you said, for not just the bare minimum,
like I'll be ready to believe myself worthy of uh
like real partner.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, like that's something that really I mean. I also
will say, I mean, I'm still doing talk therapy and
I did EMDR. I'm not sure if I'm gonna continue
with it. I'm taking a break from it right now.
But like I will say, I really focused on like
really like you, it does EMDR doesn't have to be
for like a big traumatic Like that's what I always
(44:17):
thought was like, oh well I don't have like a
huge trauma thing to like talk about, so I would
never do that. But I focused on these like little
things like a memory where one of my exes said,
like we'll never get back together, like we're sitting on
the couch and it's like I went into that, or
like memory of like coming home and like crying on
my couch because I was like embarrassed. It's like going
(44:39):
into that small thing has really changed the way I
think about myself and about like how I want to
live and treat others and be treated and something that
like you said, like being like brave enough to like
ask for what you need. Like that is such a
core theme looking back, and I don't think of myself
(44:59):
this way, Like I never thought of myself as like
the type of girlfriend who's always like submissive and like
letting other people's things right, But looking back, the amount
of moments that happened where I should have Because it's
interesting because you talked about a story like recently where
you like were leaving that party that I was at
where your ex was like talking to this girl. I'm
(45:19):
like pro that behavior moving forward. It's like my most
recent relationship thinking about a night where like we were
supposed to hang out and then he like invited his
friend back to his apartment with us to like hang
out more, and then that friend and fright and more,
and basically then I'm like suddenly at a guy's night
on a night that we were supposed to like hang out.
I am like, looking back, I'm gonna be like, wait,
(45:42):
why are you inviting this person back? Where you know
what I mean, and like walk out of that situation.
If they can't understand it. Great we are not on
the same page. Instead of like spending the whole night
simmering in anger and then going home and crying at
like midnight, like waste of time and energy, it's like,
I really feel like looking back one of many core
(46:03):
themes where it's like I could have done something different
because it's so much. On the one hand, it's like
easier to blame yourself than to deal with like the
complexity of like how much harm other people are capable
of doing to you. On the other hand, it's easier
to feel like, oh, well, I just dated an asshole,
so like I don't really have to look at what
I did, and I will say, like, one thing I
(46:25):
can change is being okay with stuff that's blatantly not okay.
That is as small as oh, actually my friend's gonna
come over, or oh, actually my plans have changed, or actually,
like one example I was thinking of is like my
one of my exes got upgraded to first class and
didn't ask, oh, do you want to take the ticket,
just automatically was like, oh, so I'm going to be
(46:45):
sitting in first class and you can be in coach, right,
bare minimum things like that where it's like I and
I actually did say something about that, but like I
should have been like dude, fuck you, like we're not
together anymore literally, And that's a joay because it was
like the millionth time or something like that happened where
it's like this is a very small thing, like oh,
(47:06):
I didn't get you a birthday card this year. Okay,
we need to you. You need to do amdr.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
You need to go look deep within yourself to how
you got here.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
In this moment. Yes, that's my mood moving forward. I
love this.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
I think like radical self love is not radical when
you're asking like you said for the bare minimum. Yeah,
it's not radical to be like you said that we
were going to have a night to ourselves. Do not
invite your friend. That's not radical. That's not me being intense,
you know, which is like what we're so conditioned to
(47:45):
avoid being.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Right, Like it's like, wait, why couldn't you just be
like the girl that chills with all the guys because
I don't want to talk about the Beatles or football.
I don't like that, so that's why I can't be
one of the guys personal.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Well, it's also like, oh, you don't think I put
my hours in. You don't think I clock in and
out on this before, like this is the bare minimum
of what I can ask for. So I really think
that I'm ready to do that because I think in
the past I have thought, well, this is a great deal,
you know, and I don't want.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
To do that anymore. I agree. I'm really proud of
our ins and outs. Me too. I hope, I hope
we you know, stick to them. I really do.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
I think they're beating New Year's resolutions, even though I
have a bunch of those as well.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, in ins and out out New Year's Residence Years resolutions,
except I am doing New Year's resolutions.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
And literally, if I stick to these New Year's resolutions,
I am going to be a different person next year.
But we'll see if it happens, and it's okay if
it doesn't, and it's okay if it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
I love you, Devin, all right, love you Carol.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
It is a little love. I want true. It's true, true, Mace,
It's a romantic love me, baby, don't leave me, haggin.
(49:23):
I want true
Oh, I want.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
and this is Devin Leary.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Happy New Year to our listeners and to you, Devin,
Happy new Year. Obviously, we're thrilled for the new year,
as you could hear. I actually am very excited because
I like, I would like to close the door in
twenty three. I would also like to close the door
on twenty twenty two, in twenty twenty one and twenty
twenty and actually twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen as well. I
(00:45):
would just like to close the door to a few
years that feel like they have lasted forever.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I actually wrote about this on my substack if anyone
wants to read. It's four's the plug, the number for
the th drama d r A m A for the
drama dot substack dot com. Which is that I like
spent a lot of this year being like cannot wait
for this year to be over. This year socks, just
(01:12):
because of like the basic facts of like my New
Year's post this time last year was like I'm so
grateful for twenty twenty two because my I met my
boyfriend at so and so and then like got dumped.
Then my cat got sick, then got back together, broke
up again, then all the friggin' shit, all the joys
(01:34):
of a post breakup. But at the same time, I've
had a realization that like, for me, I feel like
the year designations kind of me nothing because it's like, Okay, yes,
this was a really hard year. At the same time
I started EMDR, I had like a total breakthrough this
(01:57):
year that I've like never had before. As much as
I felt like I've always been like really self searching,
I've always been like trying to better myself. I honestly
have never loved myself and made that breakthrough until this year.
So this is the year I learned how to really
like have self esteem and care for myself. And that's
(02:17):
like so priceless that I can't really say, like fuck
twenty twenty three. Also I got my cats, also, like
I started going to school again. Like a lot of
cool stuff happened this year, as much as it sucked,
So I'm also like twenty twenty four is probably gonna
suck sometimes and it's also probably gonna have some cool stuff.
So I'm trying to think of it like for myself,
(02:40):
like I really want to work out more. I really
want to like cook for myself more, and I should
do that any damn day of the week. This is
a healthy perspective to have.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
And something I was thinking about before we were recording
was like, what am I proud of for twenty twenty three?
Because my sort of habit is to be like, fuck that,
fuck the past. I'm so resentful at everything that's happened
to me for the past five years and you know,
maybe thirty four. And I started driving this year like
(03:15):
something I never thought I was going to do again,
And I started, like you said, I started exploring an
amdr like what would it mean for me to truly
love myself without condition? Not thirty pounds later, not without scars,
not like what would it mean to truly love myself?
And that's something I'm definitely not at breakthrough point yet,
(03:36):
but that's something that me and my therapists talk about
a lot. And I'm proud of facing fears this past
year because that can open the door to war fears
that I feel like are impossible to face.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But speaking of the new year, we would like to
read our ins and outs.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
A lot of people have.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Been posting these some of them have been sincere, some
of them have been jokes.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Mine are sincere. I actually had a really fun time
making this list. It's ins and outs for dating, though, right, yes,
for dating, okay, not just regular ins and outs.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Not just regular ins and outs like outs drinking water,
ins drinking soda. I'm not doing that. I'm definitely just
talking about for the most part, love love luff. Okay,
I will start with.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
One of mine. Okay, one of your inns.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I'll do an in and out, sure, go ahead. So
ends would be the standouts on Hinge. I just found
out about standouts. It is my favorite new dating app.
Basically like Hinge sucks whatever, they're all terrible, but standouts
on Hinge are basically when they pull like probably the
most liked guys, or like they pull like five hot
(04:55):
guys for you to send roses to.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And I just.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Love actually seeing hot guys that are like like, I
just like it. It's just so it's such a relief
from seeing fucking no offense to all humans out there,
but like Boso after Boso after boat like no no no,
just constantly swiping left to actually seeing cute guys is
such a relief and so nice that I find myself
(05:21):
buying these roses, like you know, I'm at the fucking
farmer's market and sending them out and that is my
in my out.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Wait, can I just say one thing? Yeah, it's it's
not just it's not I mean, this is maybe just
gonna This isn't a burst your bubble. But it's not
just hot guys. The Standouts are the people that are
most compatible Hinge things for you.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, and I love them. I love each guy they
show me and I don't care that I haven't gotten
a like back from them. I just like seeing them
because they're so much better than the usual lot. Okay,
so I recommend everyone check out Standouts on Hinge. It's
basically my new favorite dating app. And that is what
I think is in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
What is out is Rayah, I'm done. I'm done.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
What a waste of time and fucking money twenty dollars
a month? Are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I haven't matched with like Pete Davidson. And let's like
be honest by why we're all on there. We think
we're gonna match with some like high profile person. It
is so meaningless. It's like it's my It's for our
worst instincts, I believe. And there are so many horrible
people in there, like just they look like AI creations
(06:35):
of like fashion and crypto, and I live in Switzerland.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I am just so over it. I think it's a
horrible dating app.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I I tried to delete it, but basically my account
expires in like ten days, and I could not wait
for it.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
To be gone.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Une be gone. And that is one of my ins
and my outs love it.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Okay, so my first in is for dates coffee or
ice cream. The reason is, first of all, as someone
actually said to me on a first date recently at
a coffee shop, like it doesn't really make sense to
I mean I don't drink anyway, but it doesn't really
(07:26):
make sense to like have your first date be doing
something where you're losing touch with your best intentions, like
if people are drinking or whatever. Even just like being
in a bar, it's kind of like an environment of
like I'm trying to like escape at all. It's like
you shouldn't be escaping when you're trying to get to
(07:47):
know someone. You should be present. And well, this is
speaking for myself, it's like really important for me to
be present and in my body and feeling my feelings
when I'm meeting someone romantically. So first of all that
second of all, the key thing with coffee and ice
cream is to go. Both of these items can be
(08:07):
taken to go. I usually now, like if it's unless
it's like someone that I have a pretty good sense about,
Like I don't even order anything when I first get
to the date. In case, as has happened to me,
after ten minutes, I have to be like, you know what,
I have to go, or like I don't feel well
or something like that. That means you don't have any
(08:28):
responsibility to stay. But even if you go to a bar,
like if you don't order something and the other person
gets a drink, then you're like, oh, so now I
have to wait for them to finish their drink. No
coffee or ice cream cardboard containers if it sucks, or
if you have to pretend you're sick, or if you
have to pretend something happened, just oh, I gotta go,
and I guess I'll be taking this on the go.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And then guess what you have ice cream? And guess
what you have ice cream for coffee? My favorite thing
of all time.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I'm mochacino. Okay, my out. My first out is bars.
As I said, I already kind of explained this. Bar
dates are stupid. Also, like I feel like everyone kind
of knows when you walk into a bar and like
you sort of half hug someone and say like, hi,
how are you? Everyone knows what you're doing. Everyone knows
(09:16):
you're on a first date. They're all like getting off work.
They have nothing better to do than fucking listen and
judge the fact that you're on a first date. Don't
do that. It's dark, you can't hear. You're screaming over
each other, and it it's not viable. Also, like the
tabs thing is confusing. It's like who is opening a
(09:36):
tab whatever? Just no, just get your coffee, get your
ice cream. It's fine. I completely agree.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I have had first dates and bars and it just
felt kind of pointless. One of my inns, speaking of
dating apps and meeting up with people, my inns for
twenty twenty four texting immediately to meet up. Let's not
waste time texting when we do not or messaging on
hinge when we do not have anything to say to
each other, because we simply do not know each other.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Let's get this out of the way.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
We're both going to be completely normal and hopefully not
weird via text, and so if we like each other,
let's just meet up in person. I don't have time
to waste and I'm done with like, okay, what do
you do?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Let's just meet up in person and see if there's
chemistry here. My out would be asking someone how it's going.
I do not want to have conversations where I'm I'm
not gonna tell you like, ah, actually work has been
crazy and I'm having sort of like an existential crisis
about life, Like we're just not gonna be honest with
each other about how it's going. So let's again just
(10:43):
meet up, meet in person, and you know, see if
we have that jinesiquah, that feeling when you meet someone
and you're immediately either like ah, no, not this person,
or you're like, wait, this be really cool.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Okay interesting, because my next are connected to that. And
I will say that my next in and out is
is founded on a sort of three day three to
five day rule. For me personally, I've done a couple
of just immediately going on a date before like chatting
(11:22):
a little bit, and then I'm kind of like I've
had the experience of being like, oh, this person, Like
I would have saved a lot of time by like
realizing that this person isn't actually interesting, you know what
I mean. Like I've like gotten all the way to
the day after work, I'm tired, and I'm like, Oh,
if I had chatted with this person more, I feel
like I would have realized they're kind of boring. So
(11:42):
I like to chat with someone a little bit three
to five days, few messages here and there, but something
that became really interesting over the holidays. As I was
I was both on the apps and like chatting with
people that I have like met off the apps, but
have an actually gone on a date with yet. And
this is the thing, why am I Like I actually
(12:06):
witnessed going from like oh, and like, what are your
holiday plans? Okay, we just started chatting. Sure, that's like
a fine question. If we're getting to the point where
then you're saying, and what are your new Year's plans?
Why haven't we made a date yet? I don't need
to tell you what my new year's plans are. Why
are we still talking? It's been two it's a second
holiday already now, so let's it's like I don't want
to keep telling you, oh, and how is you? It's like,
(12:27):
let's my inn is acknowledging. We are basically strangers, so
chatting can only go a certain amount, like we're not
gonna be able to really even like once you're saying, oh,
I'm home with my family, Okay, well I don't know
your family. We don't actually know each other, so that
isn't really fun for me to talk about and acknowledging.
(12:47):
Like the chatting is interesting as a vetting period, but
once it goes beyond that, I want to know what
we're doing. There needs to be like a deadline, like
I don't really want to be aimlessly telling a stranger
out in the world doing god knows what how my
holidays were. So my out is chatting for more than
(13:09):
three days slashed to the point where it gets to
like personal questions about like I don't know, like I
feel like over the holidays too. It is like this
one guy was chatting with it's like, oh, how is
your Christmas? And we both started being like, oh, it's
like stressful, but we're not gonna really tell each other
why because we don't know each other, and the reason
is because of interpersonal familial things that are way too complex.
(13:30):
Like once it gets to that point, just there needs
to be a plan made, and if you don't make
a plan. I actually posted like one of the most
stunning photos of myself I've ever taken in a bathroom
mirror last night, and I felt like I'm putting this
post out onto Instagram to show you people that have
let this amorphous chatting go on for way too long.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You see, you could have been on a date with
someone this stunning by now, but because of your own problems,
you're not not sad. That is sad.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
And I I have had an experience too where you
are doing really well via chat until you meet in person,
and obviously like we all have, but I mean that like, oh.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
My god, you're making me laugh.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I'm making you laugh, and you're putting so much energy
and it's like, sorry, I have a text this guy
back that I met online.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
He's like, so great, We're meeting up for coffee. I'm
so excited. Yeah, and then you meet.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
In person, It's like no, and I just wasted like
seventy two hours, like frantically trying to make do bits
with you like no, yeah, so I do think there's
something too, Like you said, finding out quickly three to
five days.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Normal normal, normal, normal.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Not boring, kind of interesting, great, but not putting in
too much pressure on the situation.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
And knowing that the real test is.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Skin to skin contact and that that I mean either
a half hug, yes, my next in and out in
making out and what I say making out, I really
(15:16):
think that like making out is like a lost art.
And I'll speak for myself for myself, I love kissing,
and I feel like I I don't know if it's
a mixed of like people pleasing or like just being exciting,
like being excited like I always was just like let's
(15:37):
get to sex like opicially, and like was always frantically
getting to like have sex like so soon, or like
I remember telling one guy like I'm so glad we
waited and he's like, I'm known you for like forty
eight hours, and like a virgin, I'm like, so glad
we waited till I knew your last name. And I
just think that like the things I remember aren't like
(15:58):
the first time I like had sex with someone, they're
always like the first time I kissed someone, and like
how exciting that felt. And I just want to like
lean into that excitement and sort of like not put
so much pressure on a situation to like have sex immediately.
And my out is having sex. I just like think that,
like I put so much pressure on having sex, and
I just feel like one of the reasons I'm have
(16:21):
always been like, oh my god, I don't want to
like meet someone I'm not ready is because like I
always think, like because I don't want to like get
naked in front of someone immediately. And it's like, why
is that my fear? Why am I already jumping to
like getting naked in front of someone.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
What if I just took sex out of the equation.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
For a little bit and like was just like I'm
meeting someone to see if we like each other and
then maybe like eventually we'll kiss.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Why does it have to.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Be like and then quickly we are going to have
to have sex, Like I don't have to have sex
with anyone, Like I don't know, I just that sounds
extreme and I'm not trying to be extreme. I guess
what I'm saying is that I used to be really extreme,
and like guys have described me that way, and I
just want.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
To like Carolina, She's extreme, truly. Like whatever games you
ever seen the X Games, that's Carolina Rose Barlaw for you,
have you ever seen Sean White at the X Games?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yep, that's Carolina doing flippity flops on her snowboard. So
I just need a little bit of less pressure on myself.
And I'm not saying that sex is illegal now, or
you know, dancing is out a lot in this little town.
I'm just trying to say that I want to take
(17:39):
the pressure off myself because it makes dating all that
more intimidating.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Okay, well, I you're kind of changing my order in
a good way, because I have one related to that too.
My in is communication and out is spontaneity. Ooh, I
loves what I'm gonna say. When I was in my
early twenties, you know, tell me we're leaving on a trip.
This actually happened to me. I mean, I am grateful
(18:06):
to have dated some rich men in my early twenties.
It's like an experience that I think girls should find
if they can. But I did have the experience of like, Okay,
I booked us a hotel tonight, we're going, get in
the car, we're going, and it's like in my early twenties, great,
like yeah, I would love that, but now you know,
(18:30):
or just like in my early twenties showing up to
a party, Oh my god, like am I gonna make
out with this? Like that was really fun, but at
this age, I feel like that's like stressful time. I
don't need that. So like I went on a few
dates with this person and we both like this was
a while ago. Didn't actually work out. We didn't, we're
(18:52):
better as friends whatever, long story, but we went on
a few dates and after like the third date, we
had a conversation where we both were like, I'm really
nervous that I like that we should kiss, Like we
haven't kissed yet, it's going to have to happen, Like
we're both nervous, and we talked about it in a
way that was like so fun and like still flirty
and cute, but like safe feeling where we were like,
all right, let's decide we're gonna kiss tonight. It's gonna happen,
(19:15):
so like we just are gonna do it and it's fine,
and that was fun. I don't personally I do not
like kissing in the street. For me, it's uncomfortable when
it's a first date. If we're if we're like fully dating,
who cares. Then I love like a public thing. I
love making out in public at a birthday party or
whatever the fuck. But if it's like a first date
for some reason, it's like I feel awkward. I feel
(19:37):
like people are looking and I don't like that, and
I prefer like a makeout to happen in private. So
it's like but at the same time, like you said,
I don't want to be like taking strangers home to
make out my apartment. So I feel like in for
me is communicating and like getting to know someone and
then feeling safe and talking about like, now, are we
gonna have our first kiss? Do we both feel into it?
(19:59):
Let's do it as opposed to like, let's force this
like spontaneous thing that makes us both uncomfortable. So in
communication out spontaneity.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I love this and it really speaks to my PTSD
because I have been so scared of looking uncool. By
the same time, I just need to be vulnerable kind
of quickly because of like just trauma shit, Like I
have so much baggage in terms of like I don't
really want to drive far. I have covered in scars,
(20:30):
which I'm sure our listeners are sick of hearing. I
and my therapist was like, you're just gonna have to
be vulnerable faster than other people. But that's like the
key to intimacy. So if we're scared of being vulnerable,
it's fine. We don't have to tell everyone like our
family history when we first meet them. But at the
same time, like you said, like we can communicate and
(20:50):
be vulnerable because that's what we're looking for, is someone
to be vulnerable with. And if they can't handle that,
then they're the wrong person anyway.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And let's be let's be real about it. As a
conversation I had with some friends recently, like like, sexual
tension is awkward, Like let's be real about that. It's
not like in the movies. It's not like, oh my god,
like this. It's not like, you know, it's hot to
watch movies and TV shows where it's like will they
(21:17):
won't they? But in real life you're like, oh my god,
this is so awkward. Like our feet touched under the table,
like it's like a spark, but it's like scary and
awkward and like weird and you're like, what's gonna happen?
So let's be real about that and be real for
me personally that like I have much better sexual experiences
when I get to know someone and can like ask
for what I want and be like, yeah, this is
(21:39):
actually messy and weird and scary and like fucking acknowledge that,
like so that it's like yeah, if it's interesting, Like
there's I feel like there was so much pressure too,
like when you're younger and you're like, oh my god,
or as a woman at least or in my personal experience,
it's like, oh my god, Like I don't know if
I'm gonna have an orgasm, Like oh my god, what
(21:59):
if I don't, It's like who cares, Like just be
like yeah, I don't think I'm gonna come tonight. Great,
Like you know what I mean. It's just being human
and accepting that. Also, Like I feel like that takes,
like you said, like the pressure away from the other
person too. It's like, hey, let's be honest about how
we're actually feeling about our bodies and ourselves. As lame
(22:21):
as that sounds, that will lead to I think, much better,
hotter sex.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I completely agree, and I think that's something that we
are forgetting about, is how weird sex is.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's so weird. It's extremely good.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes, it's awkward, and for someone who's sober for it,
it's it's even weirder.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's so strange.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
And that doesn't mean that it's not like enjoyable and
wonderful and sometimes like really beautiful. But sex with a
new person is like it's just really like you said,
it's awkward. It's not like there yet. I know married
couples who for the first time they had sex described
it as awkward, like yeah, because you don't know this
person's body and you're feeling very self conscious, or at
(23:05):
least I'll speak for myself, I am. Maybe you're like
wonder woman and super confident, but I really believe that
being vulnerable and communicating will give you a sign of
if the person, like you said, like, if the person
you're with is capable of doing that too, then that's
(23:27):
a really good indicator. If you don't feel safe or
you feel like you have to like exhibit some coolness
when you're not feeling that way, then like that's to
me a symptom of this might not be a safe
place for me totally. And I don't mean that in
like a dangerous way. I mean that in a way
of like, this might not be a safe place to
park my feelings if I feel like I have to
act cooler than I feel. Yeah, Okay, this is a
(23:51):
risky one. And I say risky because I don't know
how you're going to react to it.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
In working out together out photo booth pictures together, I
want to talk about this for a second. In working
out together, I really like working out with a person.
I just think it's fun. I haven't had like a
man in the past do it with me because I've
(24:17):
always been self conscious that like I sweat did it.
But at the same time, after a workout, I've never
felt more beautiful or sexy. So I'm like, why can't
I just find someone to do this with that would
be so nice to go on dates where we like,
you know, feel like we're bettering ourselves or like building
a good habit. I just think, like why not? And
(24:37):
I don't like working out alone. I find it like
exciting and fun to do it with someone, and so
like that's something that I'm definitely looking for in a
partner is someone to like be active.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
With photo booth pictures.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Why those aren't out is because I think they are
literally the braggiest thing of all time. I think people
posting photo both pic with their partner is like a
rite of passage. Now I've done it. I'm so sick
of it. I hate it. I hate seeing it. And yeah,
maybe that's a little bit, you know what. And if
you're someone who posts that, I'm bitter because I want
(25:14):
to be with someone. So maybe a lot of this
is bitterness. But I'm done. I think they're done. I
think we've seen it all. We've seen the laughing, We've
seen the goofy faces, we've seen the kissing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
No one's being creative. No one's getting.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Buck naked like I would and like actually like make
something that like is cool and exciting to see.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
It's all the same. Okay, I just have to say,
you're genuinely saying you would get Buck naked in a
photo BOVI and post it on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I have done exactly that when like literally ten years ago. Okay,
so like come on, no, not come on, I mean
I only Shreira for Valentine's Day. I got him a
framed picture of a photo booth where I'm taking my
top off.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh that's different, Like I meant like you're talking about
posting on Instagram.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
I think yeah, and I did, and then I after
I gave it to him, we broke up and I
got it back and my friend was like, you really
shouldn't do that, and I was like, it's a naked
picture of me.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Wait, so how did you post it?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Then I took a picture of it with my iPhone,
but of you naked? Oh no, it was like me
clearly taking my shirt off.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But it was like above, Okay, so now we're getting
to the but you could tell I was naked. It
was still risque with a UI. Well, I think that's cute.
But I this is the thing, like if I saw that,
I don't remember seeing that, but like if I saw
your photo with picture, I'd be like, I love that.
I love I don't think it's I think it's a
(26:52):
thing of personal preference. Personally, I love photo with pictures.
I think they're really cute. I actually saw someone who
proposed in a photo boot redently yeah, and it's like
I like that, So personally I like that.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, that's cute. I agree with that. That's cute, but
I guess it's like what I'm aiming for.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So it's not so it's in or it's out, it's out. Okay,
And I don't personally like to work out with someone,
but that's fine if you like that, But that actually
ties into my in and out of I think in
is self care and recognizing that the bare minimum is
(27:29):
the bare minimum. So wow, it's funny. I was just
talking to a friend about a first date I went on,
and I was like, and he like works out every morning,
like he takes care of himself. Meanwhile, I don't do that,
so I guess, like I am a hypocrite, but I
just think self care. Like when a man, especially since
it's so rare for men, when a man like not
(27:52):
only says like, oh I like working out. I like
working out because it helps me focus. Like for a
man to even know why he like something. It's like
I dated this guy that said he liked that book
like Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow or whatever it's called,
and I was like, oh, do you like that? And
he's like, yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I was like, Oh,
what do you like about it? And he's like, I
(28:12):
don't know, like as if I was like attacking him.
He's like, I don't know. I mean I just like it,
like I don't know that is so, and it's like
pull out. Yeah. It's like they it's like they don't
even think. They're not present in their own being and
body enough to even say, like why I enjoy orange juice.
So when a man can say like I like this
for this reason, I like taking walks, so I can
(28:33):
like think about things like that's in for me. But
I also have to recognize it as the bare minimum,
because it's the same thing as like this date I
was talking about, I was like, oh, and he like
stood up when I walked into the coffee shop and
like pulled out my chair. That's the bare minimum. Yet
I rarely ever encounter that, like the thought to be like, oh,
do you want to sit at the booth or the chair?
(28:53):
Like the bare minimum of thoughtfulness. Recognizing that is in
and also the thoughtfulness and self care is in and
then out casual carelessness. If I don't care if you
think you look cool, I don't care if you skateboard
without a helmet, Like that's not for me. That's out.
I'm not. I'm not careless with myself or my life,
(29:16):
so it's out for me to be with anyone who's
careless enough with themself or their life that they're like
binge drinking, skateboarding without a helmet, or not sleeping and
not caring that they're not sleeping. Like just all that
stuff just get out. I know.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
I swipe left on a guy recently who was just
with smoking, and I was just like, I'm over smoking.
I can't be a smoker. I'm like, I don't judge
you for smoking. I did it for ten years. I
loved it. But I just am looking for someone who
has the same goals as me to like eventually start
a family. And like, I'm sorry, but you posting a
picture with yourself and a beer and a cigarette doesn't
(29:57):
say that to me.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yes, like that that is exactly I'm talking about too.
Like I know, I can like picture you say, posting
a picture with a beer and a cigarette. I can
picture so many profiles and it's like they have like
they're literally wearing like a mullet and like a cowboy hat,
and like think, it's like you've never been on a ranch,
you know what I mean? It's like it's one thing
for the on a ranch. You've never been on a horse,
(30:19):
the horse Whisperer, or like the like whatever Robert Redford
like whoever, not Robert Redford himself, whoever he was playing,
was that him and the horse whisper by the way,
I think so, yes, whoever he was representing, like those people.
If you're from Montana, if you bet on a ranch
and you're smoking cigarette and a beer with a mullet
and a hat. Great. If you live in green Point
(30:40):
and you work in coating and you have a mullet
and a hat and you're smoking and drinking a modello,
you are not cool. To me. I don't like that.
That's out for me, that's out. So that goes into
another in and out, not to come in front of you,
but to me in his earnestness, like literally, where a
fucking graphic T shirt from Target? If that's earnestly what
(31:04):
you like, and it says pumpkins, spice and everything nice,
If that's earnestly what you love. I love that. I
love that wear that and out is.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I love the idea of going on a date with
someone who is wearing that. I would like it, and
I'll probably be like, I'm in love with you because
that's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Right, like, that's amazing, that's actually amazing earnestness and then
out is just this fucking cool. And that's why I
also say, for me, when earnestness is in, then field
F E E L D is out and I have
I have like represented for field. In the beginning, I
was like, this is where you will find men who
are open to talking about sexuality. No, this is where
you will find men who think they're cool because they
(31:47):
put like words that they don't even mean what they are.
Find a man on field and message him asking what
does GGG mean? What do you mean you're a dom
leaning switch? Ask them what that means and see if
they can actually respond. They just think that they sound
cool and they don't and they don't and they think like, yeah,
I'm on field, Oh sorry, like I'm on field, like
I'm a little bit more exploded. They're the same types
(32:10):
as like these hippies that drive me crazy and documentaries
about the sixties where I'm like, you're just a white
dude from the suburbs, Like you don't know anything about
peace and love, like you just have long hair. It's
like the same thing, like get out, you're out. Yere
Field is the woodstock of our time, and some people
are gonna listen to that and think like, oh, so
(32:31):
Field is cool. No, woodstock wasn't cool. Field isn't cool.
Get out, it's out.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
I really would like to add an asterisk and add
that men dressing in cosplay as ranchers are out as well. Yeah,
they're just because I really appreciate that. I think that's
not even niche. I think that's something that's widespread in
this nation at this point, and I do believe it's out. Yes,
my in gaining weight for men, my out losing weight
(33:10):
for men. And I'll explain this as someone said recently
to me, which I loved so much. I dare you
not to fuck me because I've gained weight. I dare
you to be such a loser that you think that
because I have extra weight on my bones, I am
no longer sexual. In fact, this makes me more sexual.
I think that I've had so much shame about like
(33:31):
weight gain in my like years on this planet, and
recently I've just been like, fuck, that are you kidding me, Like,
I believe that if you're I'm sorry, this is my opinion.
If you're a real like man who's settled into himself,
this does not come into your consciousness at all.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Agree one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And as Cheryl Strait put it once on her podcast,
she was like, my weight's vacillated, like literally one hundred,
like a hundred pounds back and forth. And She's like,
my husband could prefer me at a weight, but he
would never tell me that because it doesn't matter to him.
So it's like, you could prefer me when I'm skinny,
but if I've gained weight, it's going to be a
neutral topic for you. And that's what I think, like
(34:16):
I'm aiming for is someone who loves me unconditionally, no
matter what fat, skinny you know, Uh, whether I've like
put effort into like wearing makeup or if I'm like
just myself watching garbage Ronie for like five hours straight,
having eaten cookies for lunch. I just think that, like,
(34:37):
I'm looking for unconditional love, and I'm fine with gaining
weight because that is what I'm looking for, and losing
weight for love makes me more insecure.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Like if I'm on that track.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I will be more insecure, I'll act more insecure, I'll
act more like because how can I be myself if
I think that's what you're interested in?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, and I also off that think that attraction should
be unconditional, even with or without love, like cause for me,
I read this book I've already talked about on the
pod Tragedy The Tragedy of Heterosexuality by Jane Ward. It's amazing.
Everyone should read it. And she talks about like how
(35:18):
if she's attracted to someone, like she's attracted to their
whole thing, Like there's not like one thing on their
body or presentation that it's like, okay, now now that
you did that, Like never mind, I'm not turned on
and so thinking back on like all these men that
I've dated that's said things like I don't like literally
this guy that I dated said like I don't like
(35:39):
when you wear your hair like half up like that.
I only like when you wear your hair down. Okay, Well,
then something's wrong with you that that small thing makes
you not attracted to me or turned off enough that
it's like worth mentioning because I'm so hot and stunning
as a whole being. How could one small hair clip
(36:00):
make a difference for you? Maybe you need to analyze that,
Maybe you need to think about that. And I will
be attracted to someone whether or not their hair is
half up or half you know what I mean. Like
to me, it doesn't work like that because I'm able
to see people as a whole human being.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
My college boyfriend on our first date told me to
grow my hair longer. On my first date with my
college boyfriend, he told me to grow my hair longer.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
That something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
And I'll say that that took me years to recover from,
and that it sounds crazy, but it's like someone presented
conditions for what they found attractive, and that set up
a very toxic dynamic.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I'll say, yeah, I know. No, I notice myself. I
noticed myself like pretty recently being like, oh I can't
wear my Oh I can't put my hair half up.
Yes I can. I like the way it looks. But
it's all this like thing of yeah, like and that's
how we're conditioned too, Like I remember being in heighth
thinking that way. It's like I have to have my
hair in my face. That's what looks good, that's what whatever,
and so it's not our fault that we start to
(37:07):
think that way about ourselves and that that like damages us.
It's it and it's not their fault. I just think
it's like some of these that I've only experienced it
in men. So I'll say, some of these men need
to like analyze why they're so affected by a hair
clip or like a bit extra makeup, or it's like
something's going on with you that you're only attracted to
(37:27):
such a specific thing. Okay, and maybe you should talk
to someone about that.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Now.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Let me say in for me is running it by
the group chat. So I feel like there's so many
feelings and hormones and nervousness and stress and cortisol and
whatever and all that stuff involved in a first date.
There's so much societal conditioning. It's like, oh, I know
what my out is. There's so much societal conditioning that
(37:55):
like it kind of can happen in a blur, and
you come away sometimes either being like, oh my god,
that was amazing and not noticing the flaws, or oh
my god, that wasn't good and not noticing that there
could have been potential. So I have recently started I've
found a group chat with people's opinions that I feel
safe and comfortable with, and or even if you can
just find one.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Okay, well I haven't heard of said chat, but I
can imagine that it must be really fun to be
a part of.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well also even if you just find one person too,
it's like just say I just had a and it's
like helpful. I think too if it's with some single
people or some people who are married or whatever. But anyway,
like say, I said this state was good, and my
friend asked me what was good about it? And that
made me stop and think that I did notice things
that maybe we were both nervous, Like it wasn't like perfect,
(38:46):
everything's perfect now we're getting married. It was like this
was good about it. That helps me realize in the
future I should look for this and then also have
had the experience of being like that was bad he
said this one weird thing that was bad, or like
he did this one and it's like, well, like I
think some people do weird stuff on the first date
because they're nervous because of all this stuff. So it
helps to just pause, like think about, Okay, what was
(39:07):
that and is that really worth another day? Another two
hours of my time or is it not? And is
should I be jumping ahead to looking for our future
shared home on Zillo or not? So in pulling people
asking what they think about this experience out blanket dating advice,
it doesn't work. Every situation is different everyone. Like this
(39:30):
goes back to the first time I lived with a boyfriend.
We started dating and like literally six months later moved
in or four months I think moved in together. I
asked someone about it. I was like, I know this
sounds insane, I know this is crazy whatever, and she
was like, it's not like everyone's situation is different. You
live in New York, your leases are weird whatever. I
(39:50):
didn't end up staying with that person, but we dated
for three years and we lived really well together. So, like,
you never know what so much situation is. When you
say stuff like you just got to put yourself out,
the more think about the person you're talking to. Some
people that apply to some people, it doesn't. I think
there's certain things that work like for everyone, which is
I don't know, like, yeah, like you said, like it's
(40:12):
good for everyone to like be vulnerable. But at the
same time, when you say these blanket things of like, well,
if you if you want to like be married, then
you need to start thinking like this. It's like not
everyone has to do that. Yeah, So in is group
chatting about dates. Out is blanket solutions for dating.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I love that, especially the blanket solutions part. I just
feel like I've used people's blanket solutions to beat myself up,
beat myself up with like I have to go on
the apps. I have to be more active on the
apps because that's how I'm going to meet someone.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
What if that's not how I'm going to meet someone?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
What if that is like something that's been like pushed
on me because it's a very like convenient way to
meet someone. But what if I can be resistant to
them and listen, I'm I'm partaking in them more because
I'm actually finding it more enjoyable with my again plug
for hinge.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
But I am.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Going to, like you said, allow myself to have an
individual experience and not to use people's advice as the
only way to find love. So I appreciate that my
inn this is going to it's not going to seem
related to dating, but it in fact is the only
way I'm going to date. My INN is amdr therapy.
My out is talk therapy. So we've talked a lot
(41:32):
about this on the pod recently. Both Devin and I
are in AMDR. What I'll say is that I've gotten
so much out of talk therapy my whole life. I've
been in therapy on and off since i was fourteen
years old. I will say, I'm ready to go deeper,
and I'm ready, and therapy has been with AMDR harder
because it's not just like, well, you should love yourself
(41:53):
and this is, you know, like the habits of someone
loving themselves. It's more like, okay, so at what age
did you determine you were unlovable? And let's go there
and let's really feel like what that felt like. It's exhausting.
I'm usually exhausted by the end of it, but it's
actually helping me progress and really see like what I will.
(42:14):
It's helping me become more brave, and that is what
I'm going to need as I get into my next
relationship and really ask for what I'm asking for, which
I've never felt like I could. Like it's truly brave
to be like, I need a man who loves me
no matter what, and I'm going to go out into
the world and see if I can find that that
is a brave thing to do. The easier thing to
(42:34):
do is like I'm going to meet someone who can
stand me, and who I can stand like I and
and who maybe will like consider me sometimes, Like I
think it's brave to go for true love and it's
the most optimistic thing you can do. And I can
only do that if I'm healing parts of myself that
(42:55):
believe that that's not for me. I can only do
that through AMD therapy. I can't afford to do it
weekly as I've been doing, so I've been trying to
do it bi weekly. But for anyone who feels like
I have baggage, I'm to traumatize, I'm broken, quote unquote, like,
I really highly recommend it. And for talk therapy, I
(43:16):
recommend anyone in therapy. I recommend anyone who's just like
digging into themselves. But I think like, if you've been
in therapy for years like I had been, and you're
just looking for you know, my my talk therapist was
basically like, you need trauma therapy, Like I cannot help
you with this, Like you need someone to go deeper
and to really work on this stuff with so that's
(43:38):
what I'm doing, and I feel like I'm becoming braver,
like I said, And when I'm really brave er than
I am now, I feel like I'll be ready to
ask someone like you said, for not just the bare minimum,
like I'll be ready to believe myself worthy of uh
like real partner.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, like that's something that really I mean. I also
will say, I mean, I'm still doing talk therapy and
I did EMDR. I'm not sure if I'm gonna continue
with it. I'm taking a break from it right now.
But like I will say, I really focused on like
really like you, it does EMDR doesn't have to be
for like a big traumatic Like that's what I always
(44:17):
thought was like, oh well I don't have like a
huge trauma thing to like talk about, so I would
never do that. But I focused on these like little
things like a memory where one of my exes said,
like we'll never get back together, like we're sitting on
the couch and it's like I went into that, or
like memory of like coming home and like crying on
my couch because I was like embarrassed. It's like going
(44:39):
into that small thing has really changed the way I
think about myself and about like how I want to
live and treat others and be treated and something that
like you said, like being like brave enough to like
ask for what you need. Like that is such a
core theme looking back, and I don't think of myself
(44:59):
this way, Like I never thought of myself as like
the type of girlfriend who's always like submissive and like
letting other people's things right, But looking back, the amount
of moments that happened where I should have Because it's
interesting because you talked about a story like recently where
you like were leaving that party that I was at
where your ex was like talking to this girl. I'm
(45:19):
like pro that behavior moving forward. It's like my most
recent relationship thinking about a night where like we were
supposed to hang out and then he like invited his
friend back to his apartment with us to like hang
out more, and then that friend and fright and more,
and basically then I'm like suddenly at a guy's night
on a night that we were supposed to like hang out.
I am like, looking back, I'm gonna be like, wait,
(45:42):
why are you inviting this person back? Where you know
what I mean, and like walk out of that situation.
If they can't understand it. Great we are not on
the same page. Instead of like spending the whole night
simmering in anger and then going home and crying at
like midnight, like waste of time and energy, it's like,
I really feel like looking back one of many core
(46:03):
themes where it's like I could have done something different
because it's so much. On the one hand, it's like
easier to blame yourself than to deal with like the
complexity of like how much harm other people are capable
of doing to you. On the other hand, it's easier
to feel like, oh, well, I just dated an asshole,
so like I don't really have to look at what
I did, and I will say, like, one thing I
(46:25):
can change is being okay with stuff that's blatantly not okay.
That is as small as oh, actually my friend's gonna
come over, or oh, actually my plans have changed, or actually,
like one example I was thinking of is like my
one of my exes got upgraded to first class and
didn't ask, oh, do you want to take the ticket,
just automatically was like, oh, so I'm going to be
(46:45):
sitting in first class and you can be in coach, right,
bare minimum things like that where it's like I and
I actually did say something about that, but like I
should have been like dude, fuck you, like we're not
together anymore literally, And that's a joay because it was
like the millionth time or something like that happened where
it's like this is a very small thing, like oh,
(47:06):
I didn't get you a birthday card this year. Okay,
we need to you. You need to do amdr.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
You need to go look deep within yourself to how
you got here.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
In this moment. Yes, that's my mood moving forward. I
love this.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
I think like radical self love is not radical when
you're asking like you said for the bare minimum. Yeah,
it's not radical to be like you said that we
were going to have a night to ourselves. Do not
invite your friend. That's not radical. That's not me being intense,
you know, which is like what we're so conditioned to
(47:45):
avoid being.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Right, Like it's like, wait, why couldn't you just be
like the girl that chills with all the guys because
I don't want to talk about the Beatles or football.
I don't like that, so that's why I can't be
one of the guys personal.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Well, it's also like, oh, you don't think I put
my hours in. You don't think I clock in and
out on this before, like this is the bare minimum
of what I can ask for. So I really think
that I'm ready to do that because I think in
the past I have thought, well, this is a great deal,
you know, and I don't want.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
To do that anymore. I agree. I'm really proud of
our ins and outs. Me too. I hope, I hope
we you know, stick to them. I really do.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
I think they're beating New Year's resolutions, even though I
have a bunch of those as well.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, in ins and out out New Year's Residence Years resolutions,
except I am doing New Year's resolutions.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
And literally, if I stick to these New Year's resolutions,
I am going to be a different person next year.
But we'll see if it happens, and it's okay if
it doesn't, and it's okay if it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
I love you, Devin, all right, love you Carol.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
It is a little love. I want true. It's true, true, Mace,
It's a romantic love me, baby, don't leave me, haggin.
(49:23):
I want true
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