April 25, 2024 • 45 mins
Devin and Carolina discuss the ins and outs and Daddy’s of the Tortured Poets Department before recapping the latest Summer House with a brief retrospective into seasons past.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, I want.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
this is Devin Leary, and breaking news. Tortured Poets Department dropped.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Over a week ago.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So it's not really no, it's breaking. No, it's not
necessarily breaking. Okay, Well, it's what the people in the
streets are talking about. Have you been out into the streets,
because that's what people are saying.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I've been out into the streets, and I will say
I listened to the album in full, from start to
finish on a drive to New Jersey, which is the
way it's meant to be listened to, and I, on
the one hand, I'm disappointed. On the other hand, I
(01:01):
understand that like some of the songs on this album,
like Down Bad or even I can do It with
a broken heart, Like some of these songs, It's like
if anyone else came out with this, if Sabrina Carpenter
came out with this, like I would be blown away.
I'd be like, oh my god, this is like my
favorite bop right now. But because it's Taylor, I expected
so much more and I was, for the most part
(01:24):
bored and found it repetitive. And I think that's Okay,
every album doesn't have to be the best album. I
just think like, at one point, so my friend sent
me this tweet. I should probably quote it instead of
like saying it without giving credit for all for all
(01:44):
the people who listen and all the you know, important
sources who listen to our podcast. The tweet was by
at Evil Dan Evil, and it says, you just need
one friend to chext your entire stream of consciousness too,
And I said that's what Taylor needed, so she wouldn't
make a thirty song album because I feel like if
(02:04):
she had more people to talk to you, if she
was in therapy, like we wouldn't have to get every
single one of these thoughts. It's like, there doesn't have
to be an entire song about how you left your
ex boyfriend's location on and like saw that he went
to a bar with a girl, Like that's like something
maybe you chat about with your friends unless you can
think of like a genius bop from that.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And that's the thing is like I feel like Bejeweled.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Is a genius bop and it's like it comes from
this core idea that's very relatable of like I'm in
a relationship, but I feel like this person's taking me
for granted, and I can just go out and be
like still hot and people pay attention to me.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But that's what like.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Some of these songs have the core of that where
it's like, oh, I'm gonna get like I'm gonna get
him back or I you know whatever, and it's like.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And then I'm like, all right.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Every time a song stops and it's like dear someone
with an obscure name or like a random ass name,
it's like the song is called like Peter and.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
She's like Peter, we are you ever gonna believe her?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm like, I don't know Peter, so I don't care,
Like why are you saying about Peter and whatever. It's like,
I just don't like these random narratives about random people
I don't know. And I'm much more into either sad
deeply said worst heartbreak ever heartbreak songs like You're Losing Me,
which was like, oh my god, is and I think
(03:26):
a lot of people thought is the album gonna be
like that? Or fun hot, sexy I'm having sex with
a football player. I'm like so hot songs like like
fun sex pop songs about Travis Kelcey or awful, devastating
breakup songs about Joe Alwen was what I expected, and
(03:46):
instead I got like a bunch of as like calling
back to the tweet stream of consciousness about like some
stuff that I was just like, this is kind of random.
That being said, I love like five of the songs
and I put those on a playlist, and I can't
remember the last album that came out that I put
five full songs from on a playlist, So you know
(04:07):
that's saying something, but it's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I was also talking with a friend about how like.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's like I relate to the way that she talks
about herself, but I feel like she talks about herself
as if she's like the weird girl who's like a
total misfit outsider, and like that's how she sees herself,
but she's not that. She's like the most powerful woman
in the world, and she's very conventionally attractive.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So it's like.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's also lyric where she's like, you wouldn't be able
to survive in the asylum I.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Was raised, Yeah, and it's like I don't know that
that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Everyone was posting pictures of like the Glee classroom and
her childhood home. And I mean, like you said, we
have higher hopes for Tailor. These albums are also teased
so much. It's not like she just drops them out
of thin air, like Cowboy Carter comes out after Beyonce
(05:15):
drops a super Bowl ad an incredible song Texas hold
Them my favorite song of the year probably, and sixteen
Carriages come from that, and then the whole album drops,
and so it's not this build up where we're waiting
literally a month for a great titled album the Tortured
Poet's Department, I thought, do you think that's great? I
(05:37):
loved it, loved it.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I hated it, but then when I realized that the
song was making fun of it self, I liked that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So I don't like the look of it though, like
the aesthetic of the typewriters, and I think it's cheesy
and just not her or. It's it's like when you're
a kid and you like have a quill pen or something.
I don't know, it's like dressing up. It's dress up.
(06:08):
It feels like dressing up as a kid and thinking
like I'm a writer. But what I wanted to say
was every time I think of Taylor Swift and her
sort of distracks and her you know, writing at people.
I think about what you said, where if I had
a talent for songwriting and I was a pop star,
and anytime I went through anything remotely insulting or any
(06:33):
kind of rejection around a breakup, I would do it.
I would be doing the exact same thing, like, Okay,
I'm going to write a song about this moment so
I can express to this person what it felt like.
And you know, the rumors that she seems to confirm
in the song are that matt Heal Mattie Heally ghosted her,
and I can imagine, you know, as a billion or
(06:55):
pop star that being very confusing, and a lot of
the song seemed to be about him, Like she makes
fun of his like suits and calls them Jehovah's witness suits,
and it's basically just like fuck that. I think they're
like some of her angriest songs. Yeah, I think that,
(07:15):
like you said, it might have been better had she
just texted some of that to someone. I mean, it
reminds me of a breakup I went through when I
was in my early twenties and my friend was going
through a breakup as well, and we would text. It
was this genius move where we would text each other
what we wanted to text our exes. So I'd be like,
I want to text my ex and tell him that,
(07:37):
you know, he was a horrible kisser or something like that,
and she'd be like, Okay, I want to text my
ex this. And then they would be sad, and then
they'd be mean, and they would be all the things
that we wanted to say to our exes, but we
would just say them to each other so we could
say them out loud. And so it's like Taylor has
so much to say. It doesn't surprise me that after
a breakup with someone that she really liked. It seems
(07:58):
like like she even at at a concert when she
was dating Matti Heelly. I've never been happier in every
aspect of my life.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
No, that was after she started dating Travis.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Really yeah, Oh okay, Well she still seems really upset
about the Matti Heilly thing. I could swear I was
when she was daying Matti Heilly. But I really don't
want to fight. I don't want tension.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean I could when she was dating Travis, because
I remember being like, I can't believe she's already saying
this and they like just started dating.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Got it, got it? Got it okay? Well in any anyways,
I was I was hoping for more songs by Travis
is what I was hoping for, And I was hoping
for what Beyonce gave us when she gave us Levi Jeans.
Like Levi Jeans is such a hot song. I don't
know what to do it with myself when I listened
to it, like I'm I'm honestly sometimes alone on walks
(08:50):
walking my dog listening to Levi's Jeans and feeling uncomfortable,
like feeling like like it's like when you're watching a
sexual scene in a movie when you too young to
be watching it and you got uncomfortable, Like I feel
that way about Levi's Jeans. It's just like the hottest
song I've ever listened to in my life, and I
think it's the song I want to I think it
wanted to be my first dance at my wedding.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Really that's cute.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, But like I believe Taylor is probably having the
best sex of her life right now, and I would
like that to be, you know, shown through her repertoire.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I have always disagreed that she's having the best sex
of her life right now, given that, I think like
conventionally attractive men don't have to learn how to be
good at sex, and I feel vindicated in that with
this album because I'm like, if it really was that good,
I do feel like. I mean, she gave us two
(09:50):
songs referencing Travis, and they're both like fine, Like they're
both like almost like I'm like, oh, so you're just
like taking headlines that people have said about you. Oh,
and like one of them is like, oh, like I'm
the one to be look I won basically because now
I'm with someone else and it's like that's not really hot.
It's more just like about her and it's not really
(10:10):
about him at all. And the other one is like,
I don't know, it's just like it just seems meta almost.
It doesn't feel like oh my god. She's like like
delicate was like, oh my god, like she has such
intense feelings for this person, she's so into them, and
like same with like like people on TikTok were putting
(10:33):
but Daddy, I love him to like footage of Travis.
I'm like, no, that's about Maddie Healy, Like that's about
like being in love with someone that everyone tells you
shouldn't be with, and you're like, I'm gonna change him
and make him better, and like some of us relate
to that, but I don't know. I didn't get the
sense like she's obsessed with Travis from this album, although
that maybe that's like a move, like maybe it's like, Okay,
(10:54):
she's gonna give him that later, but right now, or
maybe she doesn't want to talk about it because all
of her relationships have been failures and she's talked about
all them.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's so interesting that you say, though, like how meta
it is, because I do think so high school. The
song that is about Travis does feel like how other
people are seeing them.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yes, and so much of it is that, and it's
like that's the thing too, of like the Therapist. It's like, Okay,
the thank You Amy like song about Kim. I like
that as a fan because fuck Kim, And it's fun
to like listen to a disc track. But she's talking
about she's healed from this, and it's like you have.
I don't know, I'm like, you're still talking about it,
(11:37):
and you're like and she's like saying, oh, you're your
child is gonna like listen to this song and like
sing it to you.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
It's like sort of fucked up.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And it's like, at what point do you like get
to the point where you're like, you know what, I
don't have to like really say angry things to this
woman who's like sick and I don't have to give
her the time of day.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
It's like and that like an abusive husband. It's just
a little bit lacking, lacking.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Growth.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's the camp song. I also responded to that way.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I also responded in that way, especially when she's like,
my mom is known as a saint but wants you
to die. Yeah, it's like that's shah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And also she wrote a whole album about like hating
Kim and Kanye.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
It's like, great, that was awesome, and you have.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
An era, you literally have an era about hating them
and getting revenge of them, Like you really need another
song about that, Like six albums later, you need to
still be talking about that.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
It's like a little bit weird.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And it's like that thing where like when I used
to wanna I would like text friends being like, should
I post this to get like my ex's attention on Instagram?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Like should I post this like revenge song?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
And it's like no, Like the best revenge is to
do nothing, because then they're like, oh, you clearly moved
on for me and don't care at all, as opposed
to like, wow, she's still thinking about me and like
posting a weird song, and so it kind of gives
the opposite of fact where it's like, oh, you're like
writing a song about me still, I guess you're not.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Healed from it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The most genius thing I did after a really serious
breakup was post a meme. I posted a dumb meme
about something completely different, and all of him and his
friends saw it, and I was like, good, I want
you to see that. Like, I'm not going to post
any cryptic lyrics. I'm not going to do shit. I'm
just going to go back to Twitter and find something
(13:26):
that makes me laugh.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Wow. That's really inspiring.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thank you. I hope I helpe inspires the nation.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
True.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I also find the aesthetic to tortured Poet's department, which
so far I can see is just black and white.
As I mentioned, a little depressing, you know, I liked Lover.
I liked the Rainbow, I liked the Sparkles, I liked Midnights.
I liked the reckoning with Taylor. Maybe has like smoked
a cigarette before. Look she's holding a lighter, you know,
Like I thought that was very cool.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I mean, now we know she's done ecstasy, rolling and
grinding at.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Coachella, so oh, you think she was on ecstasy. I
think she was wasted. I don't know what she was on,
but she was definitely wasted. So I have shared your
theory with some people that Taylor has the alcohol problem,
and everyone was texting me being like Carolina was right,
like the first thirty seconds of this album, Taylor Carolina's
(14:31):
theory not as devon'sonded, and I said that was a
Devin take, and she was correct. Well, isn't it interesting
that you assumed that I would just take credit for everything?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Well, I assume if they're saying Carolina's theory, they didn't
just make up.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I'm assuming it was presented to them that way. But
I will say, if Taylor wasn't high at Coachella, then
that's like even sadder. It's like, why are you soberly
at James Kennedy's DJ set with your boyfriend in your.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, Like I just don't like that, James Kennedy's DJ said, honestly.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Like where is the bathroom? Like that's the thing. What
all these people posting at Coachella. It's just like, I'm like,
where is the bathroom? Where's the bathroom? And how is
that okay?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
With you?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Like that's the thing too, It's like, you know, how
is that okay? And I guess for her it is.
To me, it does make a lot of sense, and
that's fine, I guess.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
But she looked like she was having such a good time.
When you're wearing your boyfriend's hat casually, that is when
either you want to have sex with someone or you're
having sex with someone.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I will say she looked like she like doesn't like
when someone starts to look less like fancy and made up.
I'm like, oh, they like definitely are having sex. Like,
So I will say, she didn't look like she was
like trying to. She did look like she'd rolled out
of the trailer with his stuff on.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, so I will She got dressed quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Maybe that's an indication things are going well. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Speaking of things are going, well, let's talk about the opposite,
where things are going the opposite. Let's talk about where
things are going the opposite. And that's in the Hampton's.
And I will tell you this. I was given a tip. Actually,
(16:22):
let me shout out her podcast. My friend Nancy de Silva,
who's been a guest on this podcast before, has a
podcast called Compliments to the Chef, and it's about a
top chef. It's a Top Chef companion podcast. And Nancy
(16:42):
and I talk about Brava all the time, and she
informed me that I should go back to season three
because I was like, you know, I've tried to go
back and like rewatch old Summerhouse episodes, but I can't
stand the Workest Twins, and like whenever I try to
go back, I'm like, I just can't deal with the
work is Twins. So Nancy said I should go back
and watch three, and I did, and it's really fucking fascinating.
(17:04):
Season three is the season where Kyle cheats on Amanda
not once, but two times. The second time, but he
finds out that it actually didn't happen because he goes
to talk to the girl because he was so blacked out.
He doesn't remember if it happened or not, so he
goes to talk to her and she's like, oh, I
don't think we actually did make out. And then they're like, oh,
so technically wasn't cheating and they get engaged. So that's that,
(17:26):
and then the next summer season four is when Carl
and Lindsay first tried dating.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
And this is like when people.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Tell you that you have to like learn how to
take care of yourself and like that's really all that matters,
Like when people are like, all that really matters is
like how you feel about yourself. Like that is so
true because these people are so caught up in getting
engaged and getting married. And it's interesting on a show
(17:57):
that is so alcohol soaked and all about partying, people
are just looking for love in all the wrong places.
And Amanda and Lindsay very similarly, are super caught up
in the idea of getting engaged and married and the
idea of making something work no matter what.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
And it's very bleak. This is true.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I mean, it's the funniest thing to me about Lindsay
being obsessed with getting married is that she also clearly
is obsessed with burning it down you're like, I don't
know if I've ever seen someone self sabotaged like she has,
Like she finally got what she want. Carl finally proposed,
and he actually you can see, is really trying to
make it work despite the circumstances, and yet she is
(18:43):
openly talking about how bad their sex life is. Like
you'd at least think she would want to present as
a happy couple. But you know, it's like the couples
you It's like the couples you see fight and usually
it's the girl, but it can be the guy too.
Someone doesn't care who sees them, do you know what
I mean? Like someone is in the bar yelling and
being like I don't care if I'm being loud, And
(19:06):
I have been that girl before. I've had dated that
guy I dated, you know a guy who was that
way before, where it's like I don't care people, I'm
going to storm out of your you know, dinner, I
don't I don't care. And I think that Lindsay has
that personality type, like I can see her being happy
in a marriage with Carl, where she was constantly doing
(19:29):
stuff like that, like getting black that drunk, being mean,
Like I can see her just living this way happily.
So I think it's really interesting to have it both ways,
like both like you dress up in white for your
you know, bachelorette party and at the same time, you
you know, sleep in separate rooms and say stuff like Okay,
(19:56):
well I'm gonna go cry thanks.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, well, this is something that's interesting. Like in season three.
Another way that Lindsey and Amanda have more in common
than they think is that Carl and Kyle are much
more similar than they think.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I think Carl and.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Kyle are both alcoholics or have serious drinking problems. And
Kyle is just very high functioning, or maybe he's not.
He's just like been able to make a lot of money.
I don't know if he's high functioning. But Carl is
constantly out of a job, like he is constantly getting
fired and laid off, and now even at he's sober,
(20:41):
he like can't have a job. Like back in season
three again he's like, I'm unemployed. He has like a
thing with Paige, but he's like, I'm not ready to
settle down because I like can't find a job.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And then in season four he still doesn't have a job.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
And then Kyle's like oh, well, you could work at
lover Boy, and like, I know now he's going to
mess that up too, So it's like he's unemploy but
at the time, like Carl is getting wasted all the
time and he's a nightmare. So like when Kyle and
Amanda first got together, she is clearly way too good for.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Him and out of his league.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And she doesn't have a problem with alcohol, but she
does have a problem with being so head over heels
for Kyle. Like in season three, she's so in love
with him it's actually devastating.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
She's like, so she's like, I miss you.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Where is he? Like, where's my boyfriend? I need to
find him? Like, oh my god, I'm planning the surprise
for Kyle's birthday. He's gonna love it. He's so cute.
Oh my god, he cracks me up. He's this, he's
that he's my best friend, like when he cheats on her,
or presumably the second time, she says she's crying and
she's like, he's my best friend. I wish I could
go to him with this, but I can't. And it's
like you Page says that She's like Amanda is so
(21:47):
blinded by her love for him, because like, I have
never ever seen him have an emotionally intelligent response to anything,
Like imagine going to him with something like being like, hey,
I'm having this problem. He's like, that's not fun, Amanda,
boring party fun. Like he's like he doesn't know how
to talk about anything. He's like yelling at anyone who
(22:07):
doesn't pay full attention when he's speaking at the dinner table.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
He's like, sucks. And she's obsessed with him.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And then something breaks between season three and season four,
and that season four is when she starts. Literally every
scene is her being like, you're sleeping too close to me.
Move over, you're sleeping too close to me.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And at one point he gets in the bed.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I was dying laughing at this, but I also was like,
this is so sad. So it's like a long sequence
of him in the kitchen just eating it wasted and
staring into the distance, talking to himself and he's like, no,
I promise you, I guarantee you results, like just speaking nonsense,
staring at the distance. He gets into bed with a
man who's already been asleep hours and.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Shit, he fu.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, and then she goes she was, oh my god,
did you just poop.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Did you just poop yourself? Because you can imagine it
smells so bad. Probably she's like, oh my god, you
just to your self. And he's like, he's like that is.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Like waytedies, Like that is completely ridiculous, and she like
gets up to see if he pooped himself, and then
he's like she realizes he just parted, like that's their relationship,
and then she goes back to bed, and every other
scene of them is her being like, don't touch me,
don't get away from me.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So it's like.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Something turned I think so quickly. But it's like I
understand that he cheated on her twice. I understand that's awful,
but it's kind of like, what are you doing? Like
you hate this person?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Just leave?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And then meanwhile Amanda and Lindsay are like, I mean sorry.
And meanwhile Carl and Lindsay are getting together, but they're
so high and drunk at every second that they spend together,
like their first date, and by the way, they're like
in their mid thirties at this point. Again, it's like
they're not like twenty something. And their first date, they
(23:54):
she brings shots of fireball for them to play a
drinking game.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And they play a game.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
That's like like truth or dare or something, and they're like,
what's your favorite sex position? And like taking shots of
fireball and then she's like, if you're not gonna be
serious about this relationship, like I have to go.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
And but I will say.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I relate a lot to like her to a certain extent,
like that's the thing I feel for her in the
current season. I feel for her in the past because
it's like at the core I relate to like her,
like Luke saying, are you guys gonna get married? And
she says yes, and Carl says maybe, and then she
gets mad at him, like I understand having that moment
(24:31):
of like, oh he said like maybe, Like that's like,
oh whatever, but like I don't understand standing up storming upstairs.
And then like physically she like physically pushes Carl and
she's like, you are so inconsistent. He's like, we're not dating,
like we just went on one date, and like she
just loses it and she does sabotage it, although eventually
(24:52):
they have their happy ending, but then it's just like
so clear that.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
But then she sabotages it again.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
She sabotages it again, but also Carl sucks.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, yeah, there's there's that too. I mean, okay, so
this is what I find interesting, and I'm curious about
what you think. So when I was nineteen, I dated
this guy and he was everything to me. I used
to fantasize about just being a stay at home mom
smoking weed all day and him being like becoming this
like famous director like I just thought he was. He
(25:23):
was everything to me, and he is the ex I
dislike the most, and I think a part of that
is because I dislike how obsessed I was with him,
you know, like I'm so I'm a repulse by the
way he treated me, but I'm also just like angry
that someone like that could have made me fall so
much in love with him. And I wonder, you know,
(25:46):
like both with Lindsey and with Amanda, it's like they
were so obsessed with these guys, and I wonder if
Amanda's just like, oh my god, and this guy cheated
on me, like fuck him. But at the same time
she's with him and like married to him, but she
has to think all the time about like the way
he's treated her. And I don't know, I just think
that like when the infatuation dies, which it does for
(26:07):
every relationship you are left with a person, and when
that infatuation is just like kind of a mirage, like
sort of you you hit rock bottom faster.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, I agree, and like, I think it's interesting. The
sense I get is let like, the sense I really
got from watching both of these relationships in the earlier
stages was that these two people Kyle and Amanda and
Carl and Lindsay actually make no sense together. And it's
(26:42):
almost like this function of the summer house and being
like brought together over and over again is confusing them
into thinking they have more in common than they do.
Like I'm I've been in that position before where you're like, oh,
how did I not realize, Like we don't enjoy spending
(27:02):
time together, like and Carl and Lindsey, their only thing
they have in common really is like getting wasted. And
I don't get the sense that she's like obsessed with him.
I feel like she's obsessed with the narrative. She's clearly
the girl who wants to be friends with all the
guys and that's very important to her. And at one
point the guys are like singing a song, like Kyle
(27:24):
Carl and Luke are singing a song about how he
fingered her, and I'm like, oh god, that's like gross,
Like that's like disturbing, and like I would be like,
are you guys kidding me?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Like are you children?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
But she's like smiling and like loves the fact that
they're doing that, and I feel like it comes from
a place of like, oh my god, now I'm the
girl that one of them is hooking up with.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Like now it's like this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Where she's like that girl that she's always wanted to
be and that's like what attracts her. And then it
becomes like I'm falling in love with my best friend.
And that's like the narrative. Like they're just so attached
to these narratives. And then I think with Kyle and Amanda,
it's like we've gotten through so Like to Kyle, it's
like we've gotten through so much together. To Amanda it's
(28:06):
like I've put up with so much, so like now
you have to do what I say. But they don't
like living together, Like as soon as they move in together,
they don't like it. They're like he's saying she's too messy.
She's saying he comes home late, like they just don't
have a lot in common or seem to like each other.
Amanda doesn't like to party at all, like if anything,
(28:27):
something I also learned from watching this is like the
biggest sign of like maturity is like going to bed.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
The biggest sign of maturity is going to bed.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Like missus, he.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Just always like the most mature one, and she's like
the first one to be like, I'm actually gonna stay
in and go to bed.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I mean, if anything, I do it too much because
I love like night in as anyone who knows me knows,
and I just I I always think about what you
said when you're considering going out to a park one night,
and someone said, if this if your life was a movie,
this party would be cut from it, and that determined
(29:07):
your decision to stay home. And that is very much
how I think. Like I was in Atlanta for work
and while everyone was going out late at night, I
would go to the first destination and then I would
call it a night. I would be like, I do
not want to be tired tomorrow. I don't want to
like be in bed all day tomorrow, eating like shit
because I can't get up because I was out till
(29:29):
four am. Like, that's just not the way I can live.
I have dreams, I have did you know, aspirations. I
want to shower, I want to be in a good mood,
and I just can't do that if I'm up till
three am. I mean, it amazes me the age of
these men. I often don't think like I have it
together enough because I'm, you know, turning thirty four on Tuesday,
(29:50):
and I'm not married or in a relationship, and I
live with my family. But at the same time, I'm like,
at least I'm not slurring my words in every conversation, like,
oh my god, I have a haircut. That is a
joke that I literally have a haircut as a joke.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
No, it's like so bad, it's so bad. How old
he is in these episodes. And I'm not saying that
being in your thirties or forties is old. I'm saying
that being in your thirties and forties and openly peeing
on the side of a house and saying that was
a good peeing spot. I have never tried that peeing spot,
Like that being your life when you're forty is what's
(30:37):
like sad and It's like interesting because his whole thing
with Amanda is like she doesn't work that hard, and
they like have this conversation where she's like, stop comparing
the way I am to the way you are, Like,
it takes me longer to cope with things. It takes
me longer to clean and stuff because I have anxiety
and I have like a stressful job and whatever. And
it's like her issue with him is like, well, well,
(31:00):
he can't say anything about how I don't work hard
enough because he comes home at four am. It's like, okay,
so you're comparing yourself to him too. It's like, you
guys just have nothing in common. You would never stay
out until four am. He would never like push work
off because he needs a night to rest. Like it
just they're completely different people. And then like the fact
that they work together on top of everything is like
(31:20):
what is happening?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Will say thirsting too.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Oh go ahead, I was just gonna say, similarly to
the current season, My problem I have with Carl is
that he's like putting everything on Lindsay and like, oh
my god, Lindsay's this monster and like I'm the victim.
And it's like, well, you're both participating in the relationship.
Well back in season four, same thing, like he's acting like,
oh my god, Lindsay won't leave me alone, and then
she's like, we spend every day this week together. But
(31:46):
then on the weekend to Kyle, he's like, oh, I'm
just trying to break it off and she won't leave
me alone. It's like, so, you're actually giving mixed messages
and being confusing, and you need to take ownership of
that and you're not just a victim here, and neither
is she.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
It's so interesting to me too, because I don't think
I've ever been in a relationship or situationship where I
wanted to villainize the other person in front of other people,
Like in both these scenarios, like Amanda obviously talks about
Kyle to other people, Like when Craig was talking about
how he wanted to be husband material, not boyfriend material,
(32:20):
and Amanda was like, Kyle's not there yet, yeah, in
front of everyone. And how Lindsay is like talking to
everyone about Carl like he is like a terrorist. You're like,
I've never I've at least been like, you know, self
conscious enough to be like, oh, I don't want people
to think of my boyfriend that way, but usually I'm
(32:42):
also like a fan of theirs, So I'm like, I
don't want people like this is like a good person.
I don't want to like demonize them to anyone, even
if I'm like having a hard time with them. And
it's so interesting to me that these people just don't
care about that.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I've definitely gotten to the point where I've like lost
the ability to be nice to someone I'm dating in public.
And it's like that's a moment where you're like, things
need to be dealt with here because it's just like
a lack of respect, and like, I don't think any
of these people respect each other. I don't think Kyle
respects Amanda. I don't think she respects him. I don't
(33:18):
think Carl respects Lindsay or she respects him. And then
I also feel like the heart of the show is
Paige because she brings out the best in Amanda, she
brought out the best in Hannah, then she brings She's
the reason sire. I mean, Luke brings Heera on the show,
but then Paige becoming friends with her is why she
stayed on the show. Paige is the heart of the
show and like she is a compass to me and
(33:40):
like what it's like to have self esteem and be like,
I'm going to take care of myself. Because that's the
thing with the going to bed. It's like it's actually about.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Knowing what you want.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
It's not you know what I mean, Like everyone else
is just like, oh, we're going to Hampton Social Okay,
now we're going here. Now we're not going there. It's like,
just listen to what you actually feel like doing. And
I feel like a lot of the problem with I mean,
and then Kyle too, is that she's like, well, I
don't want to do this, but I have.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
To, and it's like, no, you don't. And same with.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
That's that's kind of how Karl is to Lindsay is like,
oh my god, I want Kyle to be a groomsman,
but I like can't even ask him that, and it's like,
yes you can, Yes he can.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
It's so funny being like I guess I'll just have
to ask him to be my flower boy instead, Like
is that the compromise? I guess I'll just have to
make up a position my wedding.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It's also like it's just fascinating it's going to be.
I know, it's like been a boring couple of episodes,
but it's fascinating no matter what to watch someone in
the midst of planning a wedding that they don't want
to go through with, like you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Can just see it in his eyes.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
It's so funny because my mom will like walk in
and out of the room while I'm watching, and when
anything wedding planning comes up, I'm like, it's not gonna happen,
putting up, like as in like can you believe this?
But I mean she's like, they're not getting married.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It's it's so funny to me because it reminds me
a lot of the scand of all season of VPR
because you're like, oh, we have never seen anything like
this on television. I know, and I feel it's this
is a much smaller version of it, but like we've
never seen a wedding get planned on television. Both people
accounting for slowly why a relationship is going to dissolve.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yes, and by the way that it's weird because a
lot of the confessionals I think are from after they
broke up, because Lindsey looks so sickly thin, in them,
and she looks like she's like not well on her
Instagram currently, and I think I think something's afoot. But yeah,
(35:40):
I also thought it was interesting in season Well, it
was interesting for me personally, like the Taylor Swift lyric
that's like not everything's about me, but maybe it is.
She gets upset because on like their again on their
first date after like seven to ten shots of fireball
on date one in daylight. By the way, Daylight was
(36:00):
like still fading. It's like five PM. That's the other thing.
I found myself being depressed today and I think I
have PMDD where it's like you get depressed before your period.
But I also was like, oh, I've been watching people
get blackout drunk and then the time thing says seven pm,
Like that's the thing is like it'll be like you're like,
oh my god, so much has happened at this party,
like Carl made out with Paige and then he had
(36:23):
a girlfriend there and he's like clearly high on drugs,
like and this happened in that and then the time
thing says like six fifteen, and they're like all right,
now we're showering and going somewhere else, and I'm like wait,
I am so depressed right now, Like that makes me sick.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
That makes me sick to my stomach.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Okay, so that but they had their first date and
Carl says, I have to take things slow because of
my family issues. Commitment is hard for me, and Lindsay's like,
you don't think commitments hard for me, Like I was
abandoned by my own mom, Like, but I still am
willing to commit to someone.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
And I have felt that way right so.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Many men I've dated where they're like, I've been through
so much of my childhood like that you just have
to understand that I'm gonna be fucking avoidant and weird,
and I'm always like, well, I've been through a lot
and I'm willing to commit. But in reality, in those situations,
it's like I was coming from a sick place too,
where I was like choosing a dynamic that wasn't healthy
just so I didn't have to be alone and so
(37:20):
I could like try to solve some childhood wounds. So
I think it's like issues aren't an excuse, but they
should be considered. Maybe, yes, Like if Lindsay was really
like working through her issues, she would have been like
I noticed that I'm getting really activated right now because
Luke made a joke about us getting married and it
(37:41):
has nothing to do with you, but I just need
to take a step back because I'm being overly defensive.
But instead she was like pushing him and being like
ye'arn and consistent and I need consistency and this and
that and blah blah blah, and he's like, oh my god,
what and it escalates so fast.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah. I mean, as of this season in particular, I've
noticed like, oh, something's very wrong with Lindsay. And actually,
this was the first time reading some blog that I
realized that Lindsay had been abandoned by her mom. And
I was like, Okay, we're getting somewhere. It's sort of
like when I sent you that thing about how Tom
Schwartz's dad with like severely abusive. It's like, okay, so
(38:22):
like things are adding up, and listen, every single person
has some kind of minor or major trauma from their past,
but like, no one comes out of their childhood's unscathed,
and that does affect how we treat each other. And
at the same time, I say this knowing that most
of my girlfriends are good partners.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because Kyle also like his
parents both cheated on each other or something, and but they.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Like talk about it like it's a joke.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
But I also think Amanda has so like when Kyle
cheated on Amanda, she went home to like tell her parents,
and the fact that she like went home and like
told them about it in general was like weird. And
also she was like, it's just so hard for me
to disappoint my parents like this, And it's like, wait,
(39:13):
why are you saying you're disappointing them? Like, so she's
also got some shit, I think, But I don't think
anyone is.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Looking at that.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
No one's looking in the mirror.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Really, no one is really taking themselves in.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
And then you've got Paige who just doesn't seem to
have to because.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
She's fine.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Like even in the early seasons, she does get like
wasted sometimes and then like nothing ever happens from it,
and she's like not even hung over the next day.
I'm just like what I think she just like doesn't
have like the shame that makes you like want to
change your whole personality based on like one embarrassing moment
(40:00):
or something.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Sure, no, I Eve, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Well, one good thing about me is I love looking
at myself in the mirror metaphorically and literally, so I
have say no time digging up my issues.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
It's too easy for me.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
But I also am like sometimes it's as simple like
today I'm like, oh my god, because this one thing
I have from childhood is like, oh if like something's wrong,
like an overhauling is needed here, like you need to
fix yourself to be loved again, and like you need
to solve this so no one has to deal with
(40:40):
your feelings. And so today it's like I'm looking out
the window and I'm like, wait, what is the point
of my life? Like it's like gray outside, and like
I just feel like I have a sense like something
really is it right? And then it's like, oh, I'm
pmsing and I'm watching a show that is about how
people I didn't really hate each other and get wasted
(41:02):
all day in their forties. So that was a thing
like all right, maybe it's a little simpler than I think,
like I could just put on a different show and
lay down right.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I think an issue that I have been realizing is
really intense within myself is the idea that everyone has
to be happy or else I'm not going to be okay. Yeah,
so like you can't be sad, my family can't be sad.
Everyone has to be all right. To the extent that
I worry about reality TV actors, I worry about, you know,
(41:36):
businesses failing that I am in no way a part
of I worry just about so much that's not necessary.
And I think I've thought that can feel selfless, but
in a lot of ways it's selfish, because selfish is
a strong word. In a lot of ways, it's just
me trying to control my own emotion, which is like
(41:59):
I want to be I want to feel good. So
you can't like have any kind of emotion that isn't
that way, or else I might get worried about you.
And life doesn't work that way, and people need to
go through things and it's not conducive to anyone if
you try to make that go away.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, it's like hard to have.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
It's hard for me to have compassion when I'm in
that place too, because I'm like, oh, if someone, at
least for me, it comes from a childhood think of like, oh,
if someone is uncomfortable, they're going to leave me. They're
going to like go, right, my resource is not going
to be available to me, and that's what's at stake.
And it becomes like, oh, you can't feel bad, does
(42:42):
that mean you're going to leave?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
So you're not going to take care of me.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
So I'm and then I can't like listen to someone's
problems because I'm like, my survival is at stake, And
in reality, it's like, Okay, you're uncomfortable. A lot of
people have been that is hard because I'm your friend.
I'm really sorry that's happening, or like that is hard
because I'm your girlfriend and I but I struggle with
this so much, Like I recently have had that where
(43:05):
I'm like immediately like launching into like all.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Right, well, so what are you gonna do about that?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Right? What are we gonna do about it?
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
And it's like so unhelpful.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
And when people do that to me, it's like the worst,
Like when someone's like okay, so this like so let's
solve it, It's like it's just not helpful.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, it's also that like self knowledge of like no,
I'm going to go through what I need to go through,
and someone trying to rush that or hurry. That doesn't help, right,
But I swear sometimes it just helps to know that
I am not one of these reality TV players. I'm
like at Lista'm not Carl, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Not Lindsay. I know. It's like things could always be worse,
things could.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Always be worse, And it's like I know that these
people's lives are damaged, I know forever, like they have
scars because they were exploited for my entertainment. At the
same time, like I wouldn't be here without them.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
That's true too. Oh my gosh. I was at a
dinner party other night and there was a girl there
who was the only one at the table who watched Bravo,
and it was such a relief to have like another
soldier there. I just looked at her and we just
sort of like convened separately and sort of, you know,
went through how evil Jesse is on the valley and
(44:19):
you know, and no one else could understand like our language.
But it felt like, Okay, so you know what I
need to survive. I know what you need to survive.
We both rely on this. We're here for each other. Yeah,
and they're here for you.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
A few things to talk to people about. Yes, in general,
it's like there's so little to talk to people about.
And when someone has seen below Deck that brings people together.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, what can you say? Well, I'm so glad this
has brought us together. One of the best things to
ever ever did to me was bring me the Bravo Universe.
And one of the best things we've ever done.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Is get to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Oh, love you, Devon, love you, Carol. Oh.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Involunted was a little love. I want true.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
It's true, true, Sa, It's so romantic.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Love me baby, if don't leave me, haggen.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
I want truths.
Oh, I want.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to True Romance. This is Carolina Barlow,
this is Devin Leary, and breaking news. Tortured Poets Department dropped.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Over a week ago.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So it's not really no, it's breaking. No, it's not
necessarily breaking. Okay, Well, it's what the people in the
streets are talking about. Have you been out into the streets,
because that's what people are saying.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I've been out into the streets, and I will say
I listened to the album in full, from start to
finish on a drive to New Jersey, which is the
way it's meant to be listened to, and I, on
the one hand, I'm disappointed. On the other hand, I
(01:01):
understand that like some of the songs on this album,
like Down Bad or even I can do It with
a broken heart, Like some of these songs, It's like
if anyone else came out with this, if Sabrina Carpenter
came out with this, like I would be blown away.
I'd be like, oh my god, this is like my
favorite bop right now. But because it's Taylor, I expected
so much more and I was, for the most part
(01:24):
bored and found it repetitive. And I think that's Okay,
every album doesn't have to be the best album. I
just think like, at one point, so my friend sent
me this tweet. I should probably quote it instead of
like saying it without giving credit for all for all
(01:44):
the people who listen and all the you know, important
sources who listen to our podcast. The tweet was by
at Evil Dan Evil, and it says, you just need
one friend to chext your entire stream of consciousness too,
And I said that's what Taylor needed, so she wouldn't
make a thirty song album because I feel like if
(02:04):
she had more people to talk to you, if she
was in therapy, like we wouldn't have to get every
single one of these thoughts. It's like, there doesn't have
to be an entire song about how you left your
ex boyfriend's location on and like saw that he went
to a bar with a girl, Like that's like something
maybe you chat about with your friends unless you can
think of like a genius bop from that.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And that's the thing is like I feel like Bejeweled.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Is a genius bop and it's like it comes from
this core idea that's very relatable of like I'm in
a relationship, but I feel like this person's taking me
for granted, and I can just go out and be
like still hot and people pay attention to me.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
But that's what like.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Some of these songs have the core of that where
it's like, oh, I'm gonna get like I'm gonna get
him back or I you know whatever, and it's like.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And then I'm like, all right.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Every time a song stops and it's like dear someone
with an obscure name or like a random ass name,
it's like the song is called like Peter and.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
She's like Peter, we are you ever gonna believe her?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I'm like, I don't know Peter, so I don't care,
Like why are you saying about Peter and whatever. It's like,
I just don't like these random narratives about random people
I don't know. And I'm much more into either sad
deeply said worst heartbreak ever heartbreak songs like You're Losing Me,
which was like, oh my god, is and I think
(03:26):
a lot of people thought is the album gonna be
like that? Or fun hot, sexy I'm having sex with
a football player. I'm like so hot songs like like
fun sex pop songs about Travis Kelcey or awful, devastating
breakup songs about Joe Alwen was what I expected, and
(03:46):
instead I got like a bunch of as like calling
back to the tweet stream of consciousness about like some
stuff that I was just like, this is kind of random.
That being said, I love like five of the songs
and I put those on a playlist, and I can't
remember the last album that came out that I put
five full songs from on a playlist, So you know
(04:07):
that's saying something, but it's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I was also talking with a friend about how like.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It's like I relate to the way that she talks
about herself, but I feel like she talks about herself
as if she's like the weird girl who's like a
total misfit outsider, and like that's how she sees herself,
but she's not that. She's like the most powerful woman
in the world, and she's very conventionally attractive.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So it's like.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's also lyric where she's like, you wouldn't be able
to survive in the asylum I.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Was raised, Yeah, and it's like I don't know that
that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Everyone was posting pictures of like the Glee classroom and
her childhood home. And I mean, like you said, we
have higher hopes for Tailor. These albums are also teased
so much. It's not like she just drops them out
of thin air, like Cowboy Carter comes out after Beyonce
(05:15):
drops a super Bowl ad an incredible song Texas hold
Them my favorite song of the year probably, and sixteen
Carriages come from that, and then the whole album drops,
and so it's not this build up where we're waiting
literally a month for a great titled album the Tortured
Poet's Department, I thought, do you think that's great? I
(05:37):
loved it, loved it.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I hated it, but then when I realized that the
song was making fun of it self, I liked that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So I don't like the look of it though, like
the aesthetic of the typewriters, and I think it's cheesy
and just not her or. It's it's like when you're
a kid and you like have a quill pen or something.
I don't know, it's like dressing up. It's dress up.
(06:08):
It feels like dressing up as a kid and thinking
like I'm a writer. But what I wanted to say
was every time I think of Taylor Swift and her
sort of distracks and her you know, writing at people.
I think about what you said, where if I had
a talent for songwriting and I was a pop star,
and anytime I went through anything remotely insulting or any
(06:33):
kind of rejection around a breakup, I would do it.
I would be doing the exact same thing, like, Okay,
I'm going to write a song about this moment so
I can express to this person what it felt like.
And you know, the rumors that she seems to confirm
in the song are that matt Heal Mattie Heally ghosted her,
and I can imagine, you know, as a billion or
(06:55):
pop star that being very confusing, and a lot of
the song seemed to be about him, Like she makes
fun of his like suits and calls them Jehovah's witness suits,
and it's basically just like fuck that. I think they're
like some of her angriest songs. Yeah, I think that,
(07:15):
like you said, it might have been better had she
just texted some of that to someone. I mean, it
reminds me of a breakup I went through when I
was in my early twenties and my friend was going
through a breakup as well, and we would text. It
was this genius move where we would text each other
what we wanted to text our exes. So I'd be like,
I want to text my ex and tell him that,
(07:37):
you know, he was a horrible kisser or something like that,
and she'd be like, Okay, I want to text my
ex this. And then they would be sad, and then
they'd be mean, and they would be all the things
that we wanted to say to our exes, but we
would just say them to each other so we could
say them out loud. And so it's like Taylor has
so much to say. It doesn't surprise me that after
a breakup with someone that she really liked. It seems
(07:58):
like like she even at at a concert when she
was dating Matti Heelly. I've never been happier in every
aspect of my life.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
No, that was after she started dating Travis.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Really yeah, Oh okay, Well she still seems really upset
about the Matti Heilly thing. I could swear I was
when she was daying Matti Heilly. But I really don't
want to fight. I don't want tension.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean I could when she was dating Travis, because
I remember being like, I can't believe she's already saying
this and they like just started dating.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Got it, got it? Got it okay? Well in any anyways,
I was I was hoping for more songs by Travis
is what I was hoping for, And I was hoping
for what Beyonce gave us when she gave us Levi Jeans.
Like Levi Jeans is such a hot song. I don't
know what to do it with myself when I listened
to it, like I'm I'm honestly sometimes alone on walks
(08:50):
walking my dog listening to Levi's Jeans and feeling uncomfortable,
like feeling like like it's like when you're watching a
sexual scene in a movie when you too young to
be watching it and you got uncomfortable, Like I feel
that way about Levi's Jeans. It's just like the hottest
song I've ever listened to in my life, and I
think it's the song I want to I think it
wanted to be my first dance at my wedding.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Really that's cute.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, But like I believe Taylor is probably having the
best sex of her life right now, and I would
like that to be, you know, shown through her repertoire.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
I have always disagreed that she's having the best sex
of her life right now, given that, I think like
conventionally attractive men don't have to learn how to be
good at sex, and I feel vindicated in that with
this album because I'm like, if it really was that good,
I do feel like. I mean, she gave us two
(09:50):
songs referencing Travis, and they're both like fine, Like they're
both like almost like I'm like, oh, so you're just
like taking headlines that people have said about you. Oh,
and like one of them is like, oh, like I'm
the one to be look I won basically because now
I'm with someone else and it's like that's not really hot.
It's more just like about her and it's not really
(10:10):
about him at all. And the other one is like,
I don't know, it's just like it just seems meta almost.
It doesn't feel like oh my god. She's like like
delicate was like, oh my god, like she has such
intense feelings for this person, she's so into them, and
like same with like like people on TikTok were putting
(10:33):
but Daddy, I love him to like footage of Travis.
I'm like, no, that's about Maddie Healy, Like that's about
like being in love with someone that everyone tells you
shouldn't be with, and you're like, I'm gonna change him
and make him better, and like some of us relate
to that, but I don't know. I didn't get the
sense like she's obsessed with Travis from this album, although
that maybe that's like a move, like maybe it's like, Okay,
(10:54):
she's gonna give him that later, but right now, or
maybe she doesn't want to talk about it because all
of her relationships have been failures and she's talked about
all them.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's so interesting that you say, though, like how meta
it is, because I do think so high school. The
song that is about Travis does feel like how other
people are seeing them.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yes, and so much of it is that, and it's
like that's the thing too, of like the Therapist. It's like, Okay,
the thank You Amy like song about Kim. I like
that as a fan because fuck Kim, And it's fun
to like listen to a disc track. But she's talking
about she's healed from this, and it's like you have.
I don't know, I'm like, you're still talking about it,
(11:37):
and you're like and she's like saying, oh, you're your
child is gonna like listen to this song and like
sing it to you.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
It's like sort of fucked up.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And it's like, at what point do you like get
to the point where you're like, you know what, I
don't have to like really say angry things to this
woman who's like sick and I don't have to give
her the time of day.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
It's like and that like an abusive husband. It's just
a little bit lacking, lacking.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Growth.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's the camp song. I also responded to that way.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I also responded in that way, especially when she's like,
my mom is known as a saint but wants you
to die. Yeah, it's like that's shah.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And also she wrote a whole album about like hating
Kim and Kanye.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
It's like, great, that was awesome, and you have.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
An era, you literally have an era about hating them
and getting revenge of them, Like you really need another
song about that, Like six albums later, you need to
still be talking about that.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
It's like a little bit weird.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And it's like that thing where like when I used
to wanna I would like text friends being like, should
I post this to get like my ex's attention on Instagram?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Like should I post this like revenge song?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
And it's like no, Like the best revenge is to
do nothing, because then they're like, oh, you clearly moved
on for me and don't care at all, as opposed
to like, wow, she's still thinking about me and like
posting a weird song, and so it kind of gives
the opposite of fact where it's like, oh, you're like
writing a song about me still, I guess you're not.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Healed from it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The most genius thing I did after a really serious
breakup was post a meme. I posted a dumb meme
about something completely different, and all of him and his
friends saw it, and I was like, good, I want
you to see that. Like, I'm not going to post
any cryptic lyrics. I'm not going to do shit. I'm
just going to go back to Twitter and find something
(13:26):
that makes me laugh.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Wow. That's really inspiring.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Thank you. I hope I helpe inspires the nation.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
True.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I also find the aesthetic to tortured Poet's department, which
so far I can see is just black and white.
As I mentioned, a little depressing, you know, I liked Lover.
I liked the Rainbow, I liked the Sparkles, I liked Midnights.
I liked the reckoning with Taylor. Maybe has like smoked
a cigarette before. Look she's holding a lighter, you know,
Like I thought that was very cool.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I mean, now we know she's done ecstasy, rolling and
grinding at.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Coachella, so oh, you think she was on ecstasy. I
think she was wasted. I don't know what she was on,
but she was definitely wasted. So I have shared your
theory with some people that Taylor has the alcohol problem,
and everyone was texting me being like Carolina was right,
like the first thirty seconds of this album, Taylor Carolina's
(14:31):
theory not as devon'sonded, and I said that was a
Devin take, and she was correct. Well, isn't it interesting
that you assumed that I would just take credit for everything?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Well, I assume if they're saying Carolina's theory, they didn't
just make up.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I'm assuming it was presented to them that way. But
I will say, if Taylor wasn't high at Coachella, then
that's like even sadder. It's like, why are you soberly
at James Kennedy's DJ set with your boyfriend in your.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, Like I just don't like that, James Kennedy's DJ said, honestly.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Like where is the bathroom? Like that's the thing. What
all these people posting at Coachella. It's just like, I'm like,
where is the bathroom? Where's the bathroom? And how is
that okay?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
With you?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Like that's the thing too, It's like, you know, how
is that okay? And I guess for her it is.
To me, it does make a lot of sense, and
that's fine, I guess.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
But she looked like she was having such a good time.
When you're wearing your boyfriend's hat casually, that is when
either you want to have sex with someone or you're
having sex with someone.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I will say she looked like she like doesn't like
when someone starts to look less like fancy and made up.
I'm like, oh, they like definitely are having sex. Like,
So I will say, she didn't look like she was
like trying to. She did look like she'd rolled out
of the trailer with his stuff on.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, so I will She got dressed quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Maybe that's an indication things are going well. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Speaking of things are going, well, let's talk about the opposite,
where things are going the opposite. Let's talk about where
things are going the opposite. And that's in the Hampton's.
And I will tell you this. I was given a tip. Actually,
(16:22):
let me shout out her podcast. My friend Nancy de Silva,
who's been a guest on this podcast before, has a
podcast called Compliments to the Chef, and it's about a
top chef. It's a Top Chef companion podcast. And Nancy
(16:42):
and I talk about Brava all the time, and she
informed me that I should go back to season three
because I was like, you know, I've tried to go
back and like rewatch old Summerhouse episodes, but I can't
stand the Workest Twins, and like whenever I try to
go back, I'm like, I just can't deal with the
work is Twins. So Nancy said I should go back
and watch three, and I did, and it's really fucking fascinating.
(17:04):
Season three is the season where Kyle cheats on Amanda
not once, but two times. The second time, but he
finds out that it actually didn't happen because he goes
to talk to the girl because he was so blacked out.
He doesn't remember if it happened or not, so he
goes to talk to her and she's like, oh, I
don't think we actually did make out. And then they're like, oh,
so technically wasn't cheating and they get engaged. So that's that,
(17:26):
and then the next summer season four is when Carl
and Lindsay first tried dating.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
And this is like when people.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Tell you that you have to like learn how to
take care of yourself and like that's really all that matters,
Like when people are like, all that really matters is
like how you feel about yourself. Like that is so
true because these people are so caught up in getting
engaged and getting married. And it's interesting on a show
(17:57):
that is so alcohol soaked and all about partying, people
are just looking for love in all the wrong places.
And Amanda and Lindsay very similarly, are super caught up
in the idea of getting engaged and married and the
idea of making something work no matter what.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
And it's very bleak. This is true.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I mean, it's the funniest thing to me about Lindsay
being obsessed with getting married is that she also clearly
is obsessed with burning it down you're like, I don't
know if I've ever seen someone self sabotaged like she has,
Like she finally got what she want. Carl finally proposed,
and he actually you can see, is really trying to
make it work despite the circumstances, and yet she is
(18:43):
openly talking about how bad their sex life is. Like
you'd at least think she would want to present as
a happy couple. But you know, it's like the couples
you It's like the couples you see fight and usually
it's the girl, but it can be the guy too.
Someone doesn't care who sees them, do you know what
I mean? Like someone is in the bar yelling and
being like I don't care if I'm being loud, And
(19:06):
I have been that girl before. I've had dated that
guy I dated, you know a guy who was that
way before, where it's like I don't care people, I'm
going to storm out of your you know, dinner, I
don't I don't care. And I think that Lindsay has
that personality type, like I can see her being happy
in a marriage with Carl, where she was constantly doing
(19:29):
stuff like that, like getting black that drunk, being mean,
Like I can see her just living this way happily.
So I think it's really interesting to have it both ways,
like both like you dress up in white for your
you know, bachelorette party and at the same time, you
you know, sleep in separate rooms and say stuff like Okay,
(19:56):
well I'm gonna go cry thanks.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, well, this is something that's interesting. Like in season three.
Another way that Lindsey and Amanda have more in common
than they think is that Carl and Kyle are much
more similar than they think.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I think Carl and.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Kyle are both alcoholics or have serious drinking problems. And
Kyle is just very high functioning, or maybe he's not.
He's just like been able to make a lot of money.
I don't know if he's high functioning. But Carl is
constantly out of a job, like he is constantly getting
fired and laid off, and now even at he's sober,
(20:41):
he like can't have a job. Like back in season
three again he's like, I'm unemployed. He has like a
thing with Paige, but he's like, I'm not ready to
settle down because I like can't find a job.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
And then in season four he still doesn't have a job.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
And then Kyle's like oh, well, you could work at
lover Boy, and like, I know now he's going to
mess that up too, So it's like he's unemploy but
at the time, like Carl is getting wasted all the
time and he's a nightmare. So like when Kyle and
Amanda first got together, she is clearly way too good for.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Him and out of his league.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And she doesn't have a problem with alcohol, but she
does have a problem with being so head over heels
for Kyle. Like in season three, she's so in love
with him it's actually devastating.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
She's like, so she's like, I miss you.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Where is he? Like, where's my boyfriend? I need to
find him? Like, oh my god, I'm planning the surprise
for Kyle's birthday. He's gonna love it. He's so cute.
Oh my god, he cracks me up. He's this, he's
that he's my best friend, like when he cheats on her,
or presumably the second time, she says she's crying and
she's like, he's my best friend. I wish I could
go to him with this, but I can't. And it's
like you Page says that She's like Amanda is so
(21:47):
blinded by her love for him, because like, I have
never ever seen him have an emotionally intelligent response to anything,
Like imagine going to him with something like being like, hey,
I'm having this problem. He's like, that's not fun, Amanda,
boring party fun. Like he's like he doesn't know how
to talk about anything. He's like yelling at anyone who
(22:07):
doesn't pay full attention when he's speaking at the dinner table.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
He's like, sucks. And she's obsessed with him.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And then something breaks between season three and season four,
and that season four is when she starts. Literally every
scene is her being like, you're sleeping too close to me.
Move over, you're sleeping too close to me.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And at one point he gets in the bed.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I was dying laughing at this, but I also was like,
this is so sad. So it's like a long sequence
of him in the kitchen just eating it wasted and
staring into the distance, talking to himself and he's like, no,
I promise you, I guarantee you results, like just speaking nonsense,
staring at the distance. He gets into bed with a
man who's already been asleep hours and.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Shit, he fu.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, and then she goes she was, oh my god,
did you just poop.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Did you just poop yourself? Because you can imagine it
smells so bad. Probably she's like, oh my god, you
just to your self. And he's like, he's like that is.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Like waytedies, Like that is completely ridiculous, and she like
gets up to see if he pooped himself, and then
he's like she realizes he just parted, like that's their relationship,
and then she goes back to bed, and every other
scene of them is her being like, don't touch me,
don't get away from me.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So it's like.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Something turned I think so quickly. But it's like I
understand that he cheated on her twice. I understand that's awful,
but it's kind of like, what are you doing? Like
you hate this person?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Just leave?
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And then meanwhile Amanda and Lindsay are like, I mean sorry.
And meanwhile Carl and Lindsay are getting together, but they're
so high and drunk at every second that they spend together,
like their first date, and by the way, they're like
in their mid thirties at this point. Again, it's like
they're not like twenty something. And their first date, they
(23:54):
she brings shots of fireball for them to play a
drinking game.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And they play a game.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
That's like like truth or dare or something, and they're like,
what's your favorite sex position? And like taking shots of
fireball and then she's like, if you're not gonna be
serious about this relationship, like I have to go.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
And but I will say.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I relate a lot to like her to a certain extent,
like that's the thing I feel for her in the
current season. I feel for her in the past because
it's like at the core I relate to like her,
like Luke saying, are you guys gonna get married? And
she says yes, and Carl says maybe, and then she
gets mad at him, like I understand having that moment
(24:31):
of like, oh he said like maybe, Like that's like,
oh whatever, but like I don't understand standing up storming upstairs.
And then like physically she like physically pushes Carl and
she's like, you are so inconsistent. He's like, we're not dating,
like we just went on one date, and like she
just loses it and she does sabotage it, although eventually
(24:52):
they have their happy ending, but then it's just like
so clear that.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
But then she sabotages it again.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
She sabotages it again, but also Carl sucks.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, yeah, there's there's that too. I mean, okay, so
this is what I find interesting, and I'm curious about
what you think. So when I was nineteen, I dated
this guy and he was everything to me. I used
to fantasize about just being a stay at home mom
smoking weed all day and him being like becoming this
like famous director like I just thought he was. He
(25:23):
was everything to me, and he is the ex I
dislike the most, and I think a part of that
is because I dislike how obsessed I was with him,
you know, like I'm so I'm a repulse by the
way he treated me, but I'm also just like angry
that someone like that could have made me fall so
much in love with him. And I wonder, you know,
(25:46):
like both with Lindsey and with Amanda, it's like they
were so obsessed with these guys, and I wonder if
Amanda's just like, oh my god, and this guy cheated
on me, like fuck him. But at the same time
she's with him and like married to him, but she
has to think all the time about like the way
he's treated her. And I don't know, I just think
that like when the infatuation dies, which it does for
(26:07):
every relationship you are left with a person, and when
that infatuation is just like kind of a mirage, like
sort of you you hit rock bottom faster.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, I agree, and like, I think it's interesting. The
sense I get is let like, the sense I really
got from watching both of these relationships in the earlier
stages was that these two people Kyle and Amanda and
Carl and Lindsay actually make no sense together. And it's
(26:42):
almost like this function of the summer house and being
like brought together over and over again is confusing them
into thinking they have more in common than they do.
Like I'm I've been in that position before where you're like, oh,
how did I not realize, Like we don't enjoy spending
(27:02):
time together, like and Carl and Lindsey, their only thing
they have in common really is like getting wasted. And
I don't get the sense that she's like obsessed with him.
I feel like she's obsessed with the narrative. She's clearly
the girl who wants to be friends with all the
guys and that's very important to her. And at one
point the guys are like singing a song, like Kyle
(27:24):
Carl and Luke are singing a song about how he
fingered her, and I'm like, oh god, that's like gross,
Like that's like disturbing, and like I would be like,
are you guys kidding me?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Like are you children?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
But she's like smiling and like loves the fact that
they're doing that, and I feel like it comes from
a place of like, oh my god, now I'm the
girl that one of them is hooking up with.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Like now it's like this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Where she's like that girl that she's always wanted to
be and that's like what attracts her. And then it
becomes like I'm falling in love with my best friend.
And that's like the narrative. Like they're just so attached
to these narratives. And then I think with Kyle and Amanda,
it's like we've gotten through so Like to Kyle, it's
like we've gotten through so much together. To Amanda it's
(28:06):
like I've put up with so much, so like now
you have to do what I say. But they don't
like living together, Like as soon as they move in together,
they don't like it. They're like he's saying she's too messy.
She's saying he comes home late, like they just don't
have a lot in common or seem to like each other.
Amanda doesn't like to party at all, like if anything,
(28:27):
something I also learned from watching this is like the
biggest sign of like maturity is like going to bed.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
The biggest sign of maturity is going to bed.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Like missus, he.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Just always like the most mature one, and she's like
the first one to be like, I'm actually gonna stay
in and go to bed.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I mean, if anything, I do it too much because
I love like night in as anyone who knows me knows,
and I just I I always think about what you
said when you're considering going out to a park one night,
and someone said, if this if your life was a movie,
this party would be cut from it, and that determined
(29:07):
your decision to stay home. And that is very much
how I think. Like I was in Atlanta for work
and while everyone was going out late at night, I
would go to the first destination and then I would
call it a night. I would be like, I do
not want to be tired tomorrow. I don't want to
like be in bed all day tomorrow, eating like shit
because I can't get up because I was out till
(29:29):
four am. Like, that's just not the way I can live.
I have dreams, I have did you know, aspirations. I
want to shower, I want to be in a good mood,
and I just can't do that if I'm up till
three am. I mean, it amazes me the age of
these men. I often don't think like I have it
together enough because I'm, you know, turning thirty four on Tuesday,
(29:50):
and I'm not married or in a relationship, and I
live with my family. But at the same time, I'm like,
at least I'm not slurring my words in every conversation, like,
oh my god, I have a haircut. That is a
joke that I literally have a haircut as a joke.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
No, it's like so bad, it's so bad. How old
he is in these episodes. And I'm not saying that
being in your thirties or forties is old. I'm saying
that being in your thirties and forties and openly peeing
on the side of a house and saying that was
a good peeing spot. I have never tried that peeing spot,
Like that being your life when you're forty is what's
(30:37):
like sad and It's like interesting because his whole thing
with Amanda is like she doesn't work that hard, and
they like have this conversation where she's like, stop comparing
the way I am to the way you are, Like,
it takes me longer to cope with things. It takes
me longer to clean and stuff because I have anxiety
and I have like a stressful job and whatever. And
it's like her issue with him is like, well, well,
(31:00):
he can't say anything about how I don't work hard
enough because he comes home at four am. It's like, okay,
so you're comparing yourself to him too. It's like, you
guys just have nothing in common. You would never stay
out until four am. He would never like push work
off because he needs a night to rest. Like it
just they're completely different people. And then like the fact
that they work together on top of everything is like
(31:20):
what is happening?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
But yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Will say thirsting too.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Oh go ahead, I was just gonna say, similarly to
the current season, My problem I have with Carl is
that he's like putting everything on Lindsay and like, oh
my god, Lindsay's this monster and like I'm the victim.
And it's like, well, you're both participating in the relationship.
Well back in season four, same thing, like he's acting like,
oh my god, Lindsay won't leave me alone, and then
she's like, we spend every day this week together. But
(31:46):
then on the weekend to Kyle, he's like, oh, I'm
just trying to break it off and she won't leave
me alone. It's like, so, you're actually giving mixed messages
and being confusing, and you need to take ownership of
that and you're not just a victim here, and neither
is she.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
It's so interesting to me too, because I don't think
I've ever been in a relationship or situationship where I
wanted to villainize the other person in front of other people,
Like in both these scenarios, like Amanda obviously talks about
Kyle to other people, Like when Craig was talking about
how he wanted to be husband material, not boyfriend material,
(32:20):
and Amanda was like, Kyle's not there yet, yeah, in
front of everyone. And how Lindsay is like talking to
everyone about Carl like he is like a terrorist. You're like,
I've never I've at least been like, you know, self
conscious enough to be like, oh, I don't want people
to think of my boyfriend that way, but usually I'm
(32:42):
also like a fan of theirs, So I'm like, I
don't want people like this is like a good person.
I don't want to like demonize them to anyone, even
if I'm like having a hard time with them. And
it's so interesting to me that these people just don't
care about that.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I've definitely gotten to the point where I've like lost
the ability to be nice to someone I'm dating in public.
And it's like that's a moment where you're like, things
need to be dealt with here because it's just like
a lack of respect, and like, I don't think any
of these people respect each other. I don't think Kyle
respects Amanda. I don't think she respects him. I don't
(33:18):
think Carl respects Lindsay or she respects him. And then
I also feel like the heart of the show is
Paige because she brings out the best in Amanda, she
brought out the best in Hannah, then she brings She's
the reason sire. I mean, Luke brings Heera on the show,
but then Paige becoming friends with her is why she
stayed on the show. Paige is the heart of the
show and like she is a compass to me and
(33:40):
like what it's like to have self esteem and be like,
I'm going to take care of myself. Because that's the
thing with the going to bed. It's like it's actually about.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Knowing what you want.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
It's not you know what I mean, Like everyone else
is just like, oh, we're going to Hampton Social Okay,
now we're going here. Now we're not going there. It's like,
just listen to what you actually feel like doing. And
I feel like a lot of the problem with I mean,
and then Kyle too, is that she's like, well, I
don't want to do this, but I have.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
To, and it's like, no, you don't. And same with.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
That's that's kind of how Karl is to Lindsay is like,
oh my god, I want Kyle to be a groomsman,
but I like can't even ask him that, and it's like,
yes you can, Yes he can.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
It's so funny being like I guess I'll just have
to ask him to be my flower boy instead, Like
is that the compromise? I guess I'll just have to
make up a position my wedding.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It's also like it's just fascinating it's going to be.
I know, it's like been a boring couple of episodes,
but it's fascinating no matter what to watch someone in
the midst of planning a wedding that they don't want
to go through with, like you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Can just see it in his eyes.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
It's so funny because my mom will like walk in
and out of the room while I'm watching, and when
anything wedding planning comes up, I'm like, it's not gonna happen,
putting up, like as in like can you believe this?
But I mean she's like, they're not getting married.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It's it's so funny to me because it reminds me
a lot of the scand of all season of VPR
because you're like, oh, we have never seen anything like
this on television. I know, and I feel it's this
is a much smaller version of it, but like we've
never seen a wedding get planned on television. Both people
accounting for slowly why a relationship is going to dissolve.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yes, and by the way that it's weird because a
lot of the confessionals I think are from after they
broke up, because Lindsey looks so sickly thin, in them,
and she looks like she's like not well on her
Instagram currently, and I think I think something's afoot. But yeah,
(35:40):
I also thought it was interesting in season Well, it
was interesting for me personally, like the Taylor Swift lyric
that's like not everything's about me, but maybe it is.
She gets upset because on like their again on their
first date after like seven to ten shots of fireball
on date one in daylight. By the way, Daylight was
(36:00):
like still fading. It's like five PM. That's the other thing.
I found myself being depressed today and I think I
have PMDD where it's like you get depressed before your period.
But I also was like, oh, I've been watching people
get blackout drunk and then the time thing says seven pm,
Like that's the thing is like it'll be like you're like,
oh my god, so much has happened at this party,
like Carl made out with Paige and then he had
(36:23):
a girlfriend there and he's like clearly high on drugs,
like and this happened in that and then the time
thing says like six fifteen, and they're like all right,
now we're showering and going somewhere else, and I'm like wait,
I am so depressed right now, Like that makes me sick.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
That makes me sick to my stomach.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Okay, so that but they had their first date and
Carl says, I have to take things slow because of
my family issues. Commitment is hard for me, and Lindsay's like,
you don't think commitments hard for me, Like I was
abandoned by my own mom, Like, but I still am
willing to commit to someone.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
And I have felt that way right so.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Many men I've dated where they're like, I've been through
so much of my childhood like that you just have
to understand that I'm gonna be fucking avoidant and weird,
and I'm always like, well, I've been through a lot
and I'm willing to commit. But in reality, in those situations,
it's like I was coming from a sick place too,
where I was like choosing a dynamic that wasn't healthy
just so I didn't have to be alone and so
(37:20):
I could like try to solve some childhood wounds. So
I think it's like issues aren't an excuse, but they
should be considered. Maybe, yes, Like if Lindsay was really
like working through her issues, she would have been like
I noticed that I'm getting really activated right now because
Luke made a joke about us getting married and it
(37:41):
has nothing to do with you, but I just need
to take a step back because I'm being overly defensive.
But instead she was like pushing him and being like
ye'arn and consistent and I need consistency and this and
that and blah blah blah, and he's like, oh my god,
what and it escalates so fast.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah. I mean, as of this season in particular, I've
noticed like, oh, something's very wrong with Lindsay. And actually,
this was the first time reading some blog that I
realized that Lindsay had been abandoned by her mom. And
I was like, Okay, we're getting somewhere. It's sort of
like when I sent you that thing about how Tom
Schwartz's dad with like severely abusive. It's like, okay, so
(38:22):
like things are adding up, and listen, every single person
has some kind of minor or major trauma from their past,
but like, no one comes out of their childhood's unscathed,
and that does affect how we treat each other. And
at the same time, I say this knowing that most
of my girlfriends are good partners.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because Kyle also like his
parents both cheated on each other or something, and but they.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Like talk about it like it's a joke.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
But I also think Amanda has so like when Kyle
cheated on Amanda, she went home to like tell her parents,
and the fact that she like went home and like
told them about it in general was like weird. And
also she was like, it's just so hard for me
to disappoint my parents like this, And it's like, wait,
(39:13):
why are you saying you're disappointing them? Like, so she's
also got some shit, I think, But I don't think
anyone is.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Looking at that.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
No one's looking in the mirror.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Really, no one is really taking themselves in.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
And then you've got Paige who just doesn't seem to
have to because.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
She's fine.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Like even in the early seasons, she does get like
wasted sometimes and then like nothing ever happens from it,
and she's like not even hung over the next day.
I'm just like what I think she just like doesn't
have like the shame that makes you like want to
change your whole personality based on like one embarrassing moment
(40:00):
or something.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Sure, no, I Eve, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Well, one good thing about me is I love looking
at myself in the mirror metaphorically and literally, so I
have say no time digging up my issues.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
It's too easy for me.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
But I also am like sometimes it's as simple like
today I'm like, oh my god, because this one thing
I have from childhood is like, oh if like something's wrong,
like an overhauling is needed here, like you need to
fix yourself to be loved again, and like you need
to solve this so no one has to deal with
(40:40):
your feelings. And so today it's like I'm looking out
the window and I'm like, wait, what is the point
of my life? Like it's like gray outside, and like
I just feel like I have a sense like something
really is it right? And then it's like, oh, I'm
pmsing and I'm watching a show that is about how
people I didn't really hate each other and get wasted
(41:02):
all day in their forties. So that was a thing
like all right, maybe it's a little simpler than I think,
like I could just put on a different show and
lay down right.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
I think an issue that I have been realizing is
really intense within myself is the idea that everyone has
to be happy or else I'm not going to be okay. Yeah,
so like you can't be sad, my family can't be sad.
Everyone has to be all right. To the extent that
I worry about reality TV actors, I worry about, you know,
(41:36):
businesses failing that I am in no way a part
of I worry just about so much that's not necessary.
And I think I've thought that can feel selfless, but
in a lot of ways it's selfish, because selfish is
a strong word. In a lot of ways, it's just
me trying to control my own emotion, which is like
(41:59):
I want to be I want to feel good. So
you can't like have any kind of emotion that isn't
that way, or else I might get worried about you.
And life doesn't work that way, and people need to
go through things and it's not conducive to anyone if
you try to make that go away.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, it's like hard to have.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
It's hard for me to have compassion when I'm in
that place too, because I'm like, oh, if someone, at
least for me, it comes from a childhood think of like, oh,
if someone is uncomfortable, they're going to leave me. They're
going to like go, right, my resource is not going
to be available to me, and that's what's at stake.
And it becomes like, oh, you can't feel bad, does
(42:42):
that mean you're going to leave?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
So you're not going to take care of me.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
So I'm and then I can't like listen to someone's
problems because I'm like, my survival is at stake, And
in reality, it's like, Okay, you're uncomfortable. A lot of
people have been that is hard because I'm your friend.
I'm really sorry that's happening, or like that is hard
because I'm your girlfriend and I but I struggle with
this so much, Like I recently have had that where
(43:05):
I'm like immediately like launching into like all.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Right, well, so what are you gonna do about that?
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Right? What are we gonna do about it?
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
And it's like so unhelpful.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
And when people do that to me, it's like the worst,
Like when someone's like okay, so this like so let's
solve it, It's like it's just not helpful.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, it's also that like self knowledge of like no,
I'm going to go through what I need to go through,
and someone trying to rush that or hurry. That doesn't help, right,
But I swear sometimes it just helps to know that
I am not one of these reality TV players. I'm
like at Lista'm not Carl, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Not Lindsay. I know. It's like things could always be worse,
things could.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Always be worse, And it's like I know that these
people's lives are damaged, I know forever, like they have
scars because they were exploited for my entertainment. At the
same time, like I wouldn't be here without them.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
That's true too. Oh my gosh. I was at a
dinner party other night and there was a girl there
who was the only one at the table who watched Bravo,
and it was such a relief to have like another
soldier there. I just looked at her and we just
sort of like convened separately and sort of, you know,
went through how evil Jesse is on the valley and
(44:19):
you know, and no one else could understand like our language.
But it felt like, Okay, so you know what I
need to survive. I know what you need to survive.
We both rely on this. We're here for each other. Yeah,
and they're here for you.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
A few things to talk to people about. Yes, in general,
it's like there's so little to talk to people about.
And when someone has seen below Deck that brings people together.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, what can you say? Well, I'm so glad this
has brought us together. One of the best things to
ever ever did to me was bring me the Bravo Universe.
And one of the best things we've ever done.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Is get to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Oh, love you, Devon, love you, Carol. Oh.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Involunted was a little love. I want true.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
It's true, true, Sa, It's so romantic.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Love me baby, if don't leave me, haggen.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
I want truths.
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