July 30, 2025 • 47 mins
Emily and Shane are in Tahoe at a beautiful Vrbo! They’re giving the latest updates on the gruesome Idaho murders, the Menendez brother’s potential release and Blake Lively’s withdrawn subpoenas.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
will be your host today, Emily Simpson with just Shane.
I love that when you guys DM me about the
cases or what your feelings are for Legally Brunette, that
you always say just Shane entertains me or just Shane
is funny. So you've actually like you've become just Shane. Okay,
(00:22):
good Anyway, The first thing I just want to start
off with, as we did an episode yesterday on the
Amy Bradley disappearance, and a few of you DM me
you listen to it. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it.
And I know there were some conflicting reports as far
as whether she left her wallet behind, the key card behind,
(00:42):
the cigarettes behind. So I tried my best to research
and figure out, but it just really comes down to
it's just there's conflicting reports about what happened. I read
when Amy Bradley vanished from the cruise ship. Her wallet,
a box of cigarettes, and a lighter were reportedly left
behind in the cabin. Her sandals were all found inside
the suite. However, there are conflicting accounts about whether the
(01:04):
key card was left behind or somehow on her person
or lost. We don't know. And again it's been twenty
seven years. So I even think when the brother brad
if he's you know, he's on a media round right
now and he's doing podcasts, I don't know if he
even has a clear memory of the exact facts at
that time. So that's where the conflicts come in. So anyway,
(01:25):
we do our best to do the research and give
you accurate information, but you know, with a case that's
twenty seven years old, we don't always know exactly what happened.
In people's memories are a little off. I just had
one more thing to say about Amy Bradley that I
thought was a good point. When I was doing research,
there were some people and I thought this was I
never really thought about this, but Amy Bradley was on
a cruise ship with her family, and it really comes
(01:47):
down to whether she disappeared from falling or jumping off
the ship, or whether she was human trafficked in some
way and removed from the ship. And we were talking,
I was kind of like putting, you know, all these
detail into categories, trying to figure out which way I
wanted to go, and a point that leads to maybe
not possibly sex trafficing, is the fact that she was
(02:08):
on a ship with her family, and according to experts
in sex trafficking human trafficking, sex traffickers don't normally kidnap
or look for people that are with a family, more.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Like runaways or someone single, so they don't have someone
to look out for them or be trying to research and.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Investigation immediately when she's removed. If this is allegedly, if
she's allegedly removed from the ship or course or drugged
or taken or whatever, she has a family on the
ship that's going to immediately notice her disappearance and report it,
and there's going to be people immediately in action. So
that's not a normal victim of sex trafficking or human trafficking.
(02:47):
They normally search for people, for young people or whatever
that are alone, that aren't with a family, that aren't
with parents, things like that. So anyway, I just thought
that was a good point. I just wanted to add.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
To add to the mystery.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yes, well, we add more elements to the mystery, and
I'm just even confused. We're going to do some updates
on some other cases we've done. I just want to
do a brief update on Menindez because there's been some
action on the case. First of all, we do know
that I don't remember the exact date, but maybe it
was a month or so ago. The Meninda's brothers were
re sentenced.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
By a judge fifty years.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
They were given fifty years. They've already served. Well, they've
served enough time to be eligible for parole. So they
do have a parole hearing August twenty first and twenty second.
They have a parole hearing scheduled, so at that time
they could possibly be granted.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
They had one in June, right and it was rescheduled.
Was that because of the fires it was rescheduled?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I believe that as well.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Fires.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I think I think they did have a parole hearing earlier.
It was rescheduled because of the fires. Now they have
a parole here.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's going to be a tsunami.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Now it might be a tsunami. Yes, we were on
tsunami watch last night. Shane was not bothered at all
by the tsunami. I was having a nervous breakdown, but
other than that, that's usually how our marriage works.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So I slept fine.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Jame slept fine. I was up all night, like it's
a Sami going to hit our house. It didn't. So anyway,
so we have the parole hearing come up where they
could possibly be paroled and released that way. However, they
had a habeas petition and now this is a different,
completely different track. You've got the recencing, which is where
(04:23):
they're on track to possibly be parolled and they've been recentenced,
and then you have a completely different track, which is
the habeas petition. The habeas petition I believe was filed
back in I think twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three,
something like that, and it's basically what habeas means. It's
a Latin terms that basically means like bring the body
like it translates to and that is a Latin term
(04:45):
that has to do with if someone is unjustly detained.
The recentencing is by statute and it's completely different than
the habeas. The Habeast has to do with the new
evidence that resurfaced after they were sentenced. So the Habeas
is basically saying, hey, these guys are being unlawfully detained
because there is this new evidence that has come forward,
and the new evidence, if it was presented at the
(05:07):
time of trial. Most likely there would have been a
different verdict. And the two pieces of new evidence, which
we've talked about previously because we've done you know, we've
done a full Menindaz podcast at one point and when
we first started. But the two pieces of evidence are one.
It's the letter that Eric wrote to his cousin Andy
Conno back in Apparently he wrote it in nineteen ninety eight,
(05:33):
eighty eight. Sorry, there's so many decades in my life now.
I can't even keep trying the Milli Vanilli era. It
was written in eighty eight, eight months prior to the
actual killings, and he wrote his cousin making references to
the abuse with my dad is still going on. I'm
scared things like that. You can actually find the full
(05:54):
letter if you google it, but the letter was not found.
And this is conflicting too. But apparently this letter came
up in an interview with Barbara Walters in like twenty fifteen,
and then their attorneys were like, wait, we never heard
about this letter. And then Robert rand who is the
reporter that's been invested in the Menindez brothers for years
(06:17):
and years and years and wrote a book called The
Menindez brothers and I actually read it. He has a
good relationship with the family. Apparently, in like twenty eighteen,
he went to the ant's house and went through the
cousin's things. The cousin is no longer alive, he died.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Years ago, and that's how then the letter served.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The letter was found apparently in his personal effects. So
now this.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Letter proves, well, it tends to prove.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It tends to prove, proves, however, you want to look
at it, that the abuse was real, the abuse was ongoing,
and that Eric was reaching out to his cousin talking
about it prior to the murders. The second piece of
evidence that's presented in the habeas petition is the testimony
of the roy roussello from Minudo that claims that he
(07:05):
was sexually assaulted or abused by Jose he was very young.
Apparently he was taken to his home and abused. So
now you have two pieces of evidence that are you know,
alleging that.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It sounds like the resentencing is a more likely and
simpler approach if they can pull that off it not
you mean, not the resentsing, but the parole right, the
parole hearing, that would allow them to be released because
then they served adequate times.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, the habeas is interesting too, because the judge ruled
that the new evidence presented is he said, a prima
facie case, meaning prima facie means on the face that
evidence is credible. Yeah, So the way he looks at
it is like, on the face, this new evidence that
you have presented is credible and it would most likely
(07:52):
change the verdict if it had been presented at that time.
So now the ball is really in the court or
the ball is now.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
With the balls in the court of the court.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The ball is in the court of the court, the
ball is in the DA's hands, court whatever where they
have to prove that it's not credible.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So but really it's really a good thing for the
Menindaz brothers because the judge is like, hey, this is
credible evidence. I'm behind it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Now it's on you guys approve that it's not. So anyway,
that's where we're at with Meninda. They've got to really
two tracks of a way to be released, and I
really don't. I wasn't so sure before if they would
be released, and now I'm like, I think these I
think these guys are going to get out of prison
right and relatively soon.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, maybe very well. So yeah you might be having
lunch with them sooner than you thought I might.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I mean, it could happen. I mean my life keeps
coming full circle. So I feel like, you know, I
could sit down, maybe have we could do a little
podcast with them, maybe maybe all right. Also, Eric Menindez
has been hospitalized diagnosed with the serious medical condition.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Is that the kidney sounds.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, it says kidney issue. I don't know. Eric Menindez
family has confirmed he's in the hospital and has been
diagnosed with a serious medical condition. A number of US
outlets are reporting that Menindaz has a kidney issue all this,
although this has not been publicly confirmed. Menindaz was taken
from the San Diego prison in which he has been
held for years, to an outside medical facility. Mark Geragos,
(09:25):
who he appeared on TMZ, was calling for Eric Menindez's
immediate release, saying it's a serious condition and he thinks
that the parole should be furloughed. Parole furloughed, I believe
that means like just parole them and they can be
just out because he has a medical conditioning he needs
to be out.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So I guess that serious sounds more than serious sounds
more than kidney stones. It might be like kidney failure
or infection or something.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Right, he says, I think the proper term, and he
could be medically furloughed in advance of the hearing so
that he can work with the parole attorney and get
up to s eat and be ready and do it
and give it his best shot. I think that's the
only fair and equitable thing to do, so basically saying
they should just be paroled early. He can work with
the parole attorney and then they can work things out
and hopefully he gets medical attention and release. So we
(10:14):
will continue to follow the Meninda's brothers. Let's go into
just a little update on Lively versus Baldoni. I actually
got really sick of talking about Blake Lively. She just
to me, in my humble opinion, I'm going to get
served a subpoena just by talking about her, So I
have to be careful. Hopefully they don't listen. Legally.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Brunette, you're I don't know what you think you have,
what kind of leverage you have to pull on that?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I'm only saying that because I don't know if
you've followed it, but apparently she sent subpoenas to all
these little tiny content creators.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh yeah, so we're really tiny then because we didn't
get didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Get well, we didn't get a subpoena. So apparently we're
not on the road.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Maybe one day, maybe I can get.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So Blake Lively drops her controversial investigation into small time
content creators. So apparently she's now dropping a lot of
these subpoenas. All these content creators were going nuts. I mean,
they didn't know, and this is an issue. First of all,
these are just a lot of them are just young
people that are out there.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's not it's not their d job creating their content, creators.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Their opinions.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And she was.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Subpoena and subpoena in ing, subpoena ninging, subpoena ing.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I can't even say that, say it subpoening.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
You can't say it either.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
No, But you know what a word that ends an
ing is called what a Jarrand oh well, thank you, sir.
The jarand of subpoena is very difficult.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It is very difficult. I'm just gonna say she sent subpoenas.
But the problem was these subpoenas were very overreaching. She
wanted bank statements and communications because her thinking, or her
attorneys thinking, was that these content creators, who were all
basically pro just some Baldoni, that there's no way they
(12:02):
could have been pro justin Baldoni unless they were getting
paid from this camp. So they were asking for bank
statements because they were looking for proof that, like all
these content creators were being you know, paid to create
content that goes against her.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
What she's thinking is why didn't we think of that? Right,
we're gonna take them down? Why didn't we think of that?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
But you know what that goes to again, This is
what I keep thinking when I read about this stuff,
is that her ego is so out of control.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, she's like making Markle. She just doesn't she has
no she's toned deaf with like no self awareness.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
No, Like she couldn't think, hey, I look bad because
I just look bad. It has to be I look
bad and they're making me look bad because they're getting
paid to make me look bad.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It couldn't be that they really think that I look
because I look bad. I don't look bad, right, and
making Marco friends. I don't know, probably, i'd imagine, so
they'd probably get along. Do they share the same our
crisis team?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Wow? I feel like when you have a PR crisis team, like,
you shouldn't brag about it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You shouldn't be playing victim.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Right, But whatever, we'll move on from that. In court
documents obtained by US Weekly, Lively's legal team and form
the court of her decision to withdraw the subpoenas on
July twenty, six, days after the YouTubers asked the judge
to intervene. I know a lot of I watched some
of this content, and a lot of these YouTubers and
small time content makers, they were really freaking out because
they didn't have because they don't have the money to
(13:32):
go and hire their attorneys.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Nor do they nor did they have any interest, like
any anticipation. They didn't assume that they'd be taken in
hauled into court. They were just sharing on their Instagram
accounts like news, and they probably shared lots of news
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
It's pop culture, right, and it's also to me, it's
also forbid.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
People don't like like Lively.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I mean allowed, right, I mean lots of people don't
like me.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
That's correct. We could just I've met some of them.
We could just go through my idea. May or may
not be one on the couchrade.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Oh my gosh. And a letter submitted to the judge,
Lively's attorneys stated, based on the third party's representations made
and meet and confers, public statements and or information provided
in their moving papers, there is no further information required
from the subpoenas as to these specific third parties at
this time, they continued. Miss Lively has therefore withdrawn the
subpoenas as to them. You know, and I think the
(14:30):
reason that they withdrew the subpoenas is because they just
keep getting more backlash, Like I don't understand their decision
making process where they just keep making movements forward that
that create more backlash.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, I don't know, And they're probably not getting the
greatest advice in the attorneys. I'm sure the attorneys are thinking,
look at all those billable hours.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Well, yeah, at the end of the day, did the
attorney's care. They don't care. They don't care what her
reputation is.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Bla's going to send her zealously until she stops paying exactly.
That's really all it is right.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But that's a lot of bill Can you imagine the
billable hours it took to send all those subpoena out
to all those content creators? What I mean, her legal
fees are astronomical At this point, it's her problem. Lively's
lawyers also have also sent subpoenas to outspoken critics of hers,
including Perez Hilton and Candace Owens. As for the next steps,
Lively's scheduled deposition has been delayed and she will no
(15:23):
longer be questioned by Baldoni's attorneys on Juel High thirty first.
I was actually in New York City when she was
supposed to be deposed, and I know Brian Friedman was
in New York City at the same time. I was
hoping to just, you know, randomly run into everyone else.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Position Hello, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I thought this was a watch Why it Happens Live.
I'm in the wrong studio.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
But unfortunately, I don't think they do depots and studios.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Why not? I mean, these are all these are all
entertainment people. Anyway, Well, I I don't know the exact
details of why did not take place. It did not
take place.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Probably Megan Markle, She's probably like, you don't have to
show up to those things.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well, you'd think those two are best friends and they're
giving each other advice and people.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
They're totally tone deaf with what the public thinks of it.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So anyway, then her deposition got scheduled again.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I didn't know you had a soft spot for megian Markle.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I don't at all. So I did, but I didn't
know you disliked her so much.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
She's very tone deaf.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
The case is set to proceed to trial on March ninth,
twenty twenty six, where both sides will finally have their
day in court. I don't know. I still I still
feel like at this point, Blake Lively needs to just
like back out, let it go, try to save some face.
I say that every time we talk about it, but
it just seems like every time I say she needs
to say face and back out, she does something more outrageous.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So so what, you know, what's their next move? There
was a new date.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
For her to be deposed, and then I just read
as I was like googling more information that that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
She's getting movie deals. So what's she so busy with
that she can't do the depot?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I don't I don't know. You should ask her or
ask Megan Markle your friend.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, I'm going to slip in their DMS.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Okay, let me know how that goes. So we're gonna
move on to Brian Coberger. I did not think we've
already done a full episode if you guys haven't listened
to it on the Idaho murders and Brian Coberger. Actually,
I don't even like to use his name reference now, Okay,
(17:20):
So a lot of these people that are talking about
the Idaho murder case are referring to I don't like
to use killer, mister killer as inmate number blah blah
blah blah.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well not bloo, it's not okay, go ahead, it's the
number one six three two, one.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Four, one six three two one four Okay. So now
every single one six three, I can't remember that one
six three two.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
How about inmate nutcase.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Inmate psychopo. Let's just call him psychopath and may leave
it at that. So now we know the gag order
has been lifted on this case because he took a
plea deal. So when he took the plea deal, all
this evidence that had been preserved, the witnesses that were
under a gag order. Now everyone is coming forward. All
this information is coming out daily. He took a plea deal.
(18:08):
He's in prison, so now it's done, it's over. So
now there's all this detailed information coming forward. So there's
more than three hundred documents were released by the Moscow
Police Department. The new documents shed light on the brutality
of the slayings, details about the days and weeks that
led up to the murders, and the extensive pool of
evidence that investigators have been gathering against mister psychopath. Okay,
(18:33):
so let's just go through some of this new information
that's come forward. The bodies were found brutally savage, and
this is I.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Did we okay not to do we not know that?
Though I thought we assumed, we assume.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Now this is what we knew before all this information
is coming forward. We knew that four college students were
murdered with a knife. Okay, and that's really the exciting We.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Assumed it was gruesome, but it's just showing it's much
more gruesome now. Kaylee's the intended target.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
That's what they think. Yeah, they think that Kaylee is
the intended target.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And that is that because there was some connection with
him in her like DMS or something.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
No, the police have come forward and the investigators have
said that there is no evidence that there was any
kind of interaction with him.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
On why do we believe Kaylee's the first was the target?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Now that all this stuff is coming forward, there have
been witnesses have come forward and said that days leading
up to the murder that Kaylee had thought she was
being followed by someone and that she had some.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Sort of stalker okay.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And also they think maybe Kaylee was the intended victim
because she was the only one that had the injuries
where he actually choked her asphyxiated her, and none of
the other ones did So that was more I guess
you could say from a psychological perspective, that was more
of a intimate type killing. That was more of a
personal something. That's so that's why they think she was
(19:48):
the intended victim. Okay. So Maddie and Kaylee were the
first two. They're on the third floor. Mattie Morgan had
visible cuts on her forearm and hands and severe facial trauma.
That's new. We did not know that her face was
basically disfigured, so from a weapon or well, it says
Madison had a gash under her right eye which appeared
(20:10):
to go from the corner of her eye to her nose. Kaylee,
who we think was the intended victim, suffered such facial
injuries that she was nearly disfigured. And actually one of
the housemates that survived that tried to identify the body
identified her wrong in the beginning because she was so
completely disfigured. I guess they now think that there was
(20:32):
a second murder weapon, not just the knife that has
never been found, but they found the knife sheath. But
apparently Kaylee's wounds to her face had some sort of
like diagonal pattern, like blunt force trauma, So that's how
he disfigured her face.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So there is some second Okay, so we're stepping upstairs
with the first two murders.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
We're still on the third floor.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Downstairs, Yeah, and there's people downstairs. Well, you said third floor.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
He started on the third floor, Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So is anyone on the second fl do we know?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yes, So he started on the third floor. That's Kaylee
and Madison. So we just talked about their wounds. Then
he goes down to the second floor. I don't know,
perhaps he was leaving, and they think that maybe in
the hallway he ran into Xana because this is the
same timeframe when Xana got a door dash delivery, so
she had gone down to the kitchen to get food
(21:21):
right at the same time that he's in the house.
So they think that possibly he ran into her on
the hallway and then they went fight whatever happened, and
he followed her into her bedroom on the second floor.
So now we're to Xana.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
This is why you always ask me to go get
your door dash late at night.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You're like, can you go down? And says you get
my DoorDash?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I never go get the door dash.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I'm not getting murdered. Let my husband do that.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, that's why do you think I have so much
life insurance on you? All right, so now let's go
back to Xana. Here. The Xana one is the most
confusing for me.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So I'm sorry, what floor is on the third? Second?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
There's so many floors in this house. Well, I guess
there's there's three, but it feels like a lot. It
feels like there's a lot in this house and there's
a lot of people. All Right, we are now on
the second floor. Okay, we started on the third floor.
He's leaving, he's going down to the second.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Floor, and what happens on the second floor He.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Runs into Xana allegedly and then I mean, we don't
nobody know.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
This is believed to be right.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I mean, we're just putting it together based on the
evidence and what they know. So apparently he runs into Xana.
There's a and then they go into the second floor
bedroom and Xana is sharing the bedroom with Ethan, her boyfriend.
Ethan is in the bed asleep. This is the part
where I'm completely confused, he gets. They get in a
fight like a I mean, Xanna is going hard, like
(22:55):
they're not in that. They're in the bedroom at the
end of the bed. So Xana's body was found at
the end of the bed on the floor, so she
is not in the bed. They have a vicious, brutal
fight between the two of them.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And Ethans sound asleep and Ethan's in the bed asleep.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
This is what I don't understand. Xanna's like fighting it
out with a killer in her.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Bed, passed out or something.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
How do you not hear? I don't know if I'm
getting murdered at the end of our bed, you better
get up.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I will and do something. I get up when you
have to go to the bathroom, and then you say
turn the ac on right.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So, if I'm getting murdered at the end of our bed,
can you please get up and fight the guy?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, the question is why didn't he wake up? Assuming
he was asleep? I didn't say that sleep or did
he wake up? He's still alive? Right?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Oh? And then he was killed too, Yes, he's number four. Yes,
So how do we know he's asleep during this whole time?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Well, I don't. I can't confirm that he's asleep.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But why did you say he was asleep? I didn't
say he was.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
This is what I'm confused about. I know he was
in the bed. He's in the bed, and Xana is
at the foot of the bed fighting it out with
the murderer. She gets stabbed over fifty times. She has
defensive wound.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
And you're assuming that Ethan didn't Now and now I'm
going to defend Ethan. You're assuming that he didn't do anything.
You don't know that. How do you know he didn't
wake up and challenge this guy? And then he's in
the scuffle too.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Because as far as I know, he doesn't have defensive wounds,
and they found him asleep in the bed. I mean
they found him in the bed.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Okay, so how was he killed?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
He was stabbed?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Okay, So maybe as a possibility, he is killed first,
and then she wakes up and he fights with her,
and this guy's incapacitated.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
If he was killing Ethan first, then Xanna, I would
assume she's pretty feisty. She's got fifty defensive wounds, she's
fastist guy.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
He was stabbed first. He was stabbed, and he was incapacitated.
She jumps up and she's fighting and she's defensive.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Okay, Well, maybe that's a good theory.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
We think about it. If you have a male and
a female in a bed, and you have a killer
in the room, who's and the killer wants to kill
them both? Who's he going to kill first? He's probably
going to go after the mail.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay, all right, that's a good theory. I like your theory.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
We'll go with that, okay, thank you. All Right, See
what happens if you listen to me once in a while.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I don't like to listen to you anyway. The other
question I have is there is a dog in the house,
and I cannot understand what the first of all dog,
I don't know his name. I don't know what his
name's Murphy. And they find Murphy the next day in
a room so one. I don't know how Murphy just
got into this room, like shut in a room.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Maybe he was always put to sleep in a different
room or something.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I don't know. But I have three dogs, and I'm
telling you, if there was a like multiple murders taking
place in the house, our dogs would be going nuts.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No one would two would run away, two.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Would run away. One would fight, Yes, but they would bark,
they would there would be noise, they would be.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I don't know. I just need to know what kind
of dog Murphy is.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Why do you need to know what kind of dog?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
It makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Well, I don't think he's a German Shepherd or anything
like that. I think he's he's a.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Gold See, he's a golden doodle.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
That's why Murphy. That's why Murphy didn't jump in see
the mystery saw. Murphy was like, I gotta do my
golden doodle thing. I'm just gonna hang out over here. See,
I have a German shepherd husky mix named Togo. And
I'm telling you that dog would fight to the better
bitter end for my life.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Unless the person has a vacuum or an he is
scared run away.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
That is true. This is how you could kill me.
Bring a vacuum, my.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Dog, run the house clean, could kill you, and he'd
be You wouldn't do anything. That is true.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Okay, thank you for that, all right. Ethan Chapin is
believed to have been killed in his sleep with a
stab wound that severed the jugular vein in his neck. Well,
I guess that's a clean, fast kill. So I don't know.
So you think he went into the room, saw that
there was a male, killed him first, and then he
and Xanna fought it out.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yes, thank you, okay, whatever, all right. I'm still I'm
still I still have to say.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I am still confused by the fact that there are
two other roommates in the house. It's three floors. He
murders four people in the span of like ten minutes.
Tops right, that he murders four people, and we know
that he and Xanna I had a fight. She's got
all these defensive wounds. There's a dog in the house.
I mean there had to have been screaming.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Was there?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I mean, was it? I don't understand that. Was it quiet?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
How many survivors from this home?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
There's two, But I don't understand why there wasn't more sound,
more reaction, Like why if he's murdering them and there's
defensive woes and there's fighting, why is there not more?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Again, there are college students. It was their outlaid and
they go to a food truck and things like that.
Isn't it possible that they were drunk and passed out
or just you know, I don't mean to say I'm
not trying to judge them, but I'm just saying, like,
you know, that's possible.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I know about it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I partied out, yeah, but I.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Don't feel like I'd ever been so incapacitated that if
I heard like a major fight going on that I
I it's inclined.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I agree, it's questionable.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I mean, I don't think they're involved in any way.
I just don't understand how.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I'm sure that they also questioned that themselves, and I'm
sure they don't feel good about the fact that they
slept through it all.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
No, they have survivor guilt and all this trauma. Now,
I mean, these I feel sorry for what they went through.
So Bethany Funk, one of the two surviving roommates, told
police she was awoken by what sounded like a firecracker
and noticed a flashing light through the bottom of her door.
According to a police report, she and Dylan those are
the two surviving roommates, spoke by phone. Dylan later said
(28:45):
the mail in black was walking out the back door
and they had made eye contact with each other, and
that he was white, with a big nose and holding
a small vacuum type object. I read it was a container,
like a container. And then some people speculated that he
took the door dash food, like did he get a
container from the kitchen and.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Like take the food with him? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I don't know either, but she said it looked like
he was holding like a container when he left when
he got the one girl that saw him leaving, that's odd.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And the firecracker, well, if assuming that she saw it
correctly and it wasn't like she was just traumatized and
you know a lot of images in her head that
you think that's a gun.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Well you would think, but there's no shells, and there's
no bullets and nobody has any bullet one and then.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That you would beg the question of why did anyone
wake up if there was a gunshots or firecrackers. There's
at least firecrackers.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well that's what they said. They said, she said she
saw like a light in something that sounded like a firecracker. Again,
they didn't call the police. By the way, they saw
an intruder leaving with a to go container and they
saw or heard something that looked like a firetra that.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I mean, it's three floors, there's a number of college kids,
there's probably a lot of people that come and go,
so it was probably enough for them to initially think, oh,
it's just a visitor or friend or whatever for the
third floor or whatever, and then maybe they got a
little spooked and scared, and then the guy walks out.
So I mean, I can imagine something like that happening.
I think also said, you're just on this impression. When
(30:14):
the murder take place, everyone's supposed to just jump up
and react and attack the murder or run away and
call police in two seconds. And the dog's supposed attack
regardless of the pot it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Just seems like that's what would happen with four people
being murdered in the midst of the night. But so
Dylan went down to Bethany's room, and the two tried
calling their roommates, but no one picked up. They didn't
call the police immediately because they were drunk and groggy
and from the night before and thought the situation might
just be a misunderstanding. I do understand that these girls
(30:45):
are young, and that they're in college, and that they've
been drinking, and I also know that their house was
considered like a party house, see, and so I think
when she saw someone leaving, instead of thinking that's an
intruder that just killed my roommates, it's easier to think
that's just someone I was here partying and drink and
is now leaving out a side door. So I mean
(31:06):
what I said. She said she even thought that it
was possibly a prank by one of Ethan's fraternity brothers.
So later on Bethanye will.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Say that when I was in college, yeah, with it
in a house and the upstairs was not connected downstairs,
there was a stairway that was outside right that went
up and there was about six to seven guys upstairs
and six to seven guys downstairs, and both doors upstairs
and downstairs. We never locked ever, we didn't even have
a key to it.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, I don't think they locked this door.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Came in and out all the.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Time, and I think this is what this house was like.
There was like a sliding glass door. I think it
was always unlocked. I think it was considered the party house.
And I think you think that this coming and going.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
This guy stood out there and maybe saw them people
going in and out and realized it's unlocked. I can
go in and out.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Well, probably because he had been stalking their house and
he made several drive bys. So later on, Bethany calls
her parents at seven thirty am about a toothache before
going back to sleep. When she woke up again around eleven,
she noticed the house was still unusually quiet. She also
noted that Xanna's Snapchat location wasn't on when it should
have been, so then Dylan and Bethany call and asked
(32:12):
two friends to come over because they were scared. When
one friend went upstairs and saw something concerning, they urged
Bethany and Dylan to leave the house and call for help.
According to the report, Bethany saw Xana's body through a
cracked bedroom door, wearing just a sweatshirt and her underwear.
And then that is when they dialed nine one one.
And this is at noon, So noon, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
That's when they pretty much woke up.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And well that's when they finally were I mean they
saw a body and a friend came over the.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Time they woke up and like, how much time passed
with them in the morning.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Without Yeah, I said, at seven thirty am, she was
calling her parents saying she had a toothache, but then
she went back to sleep. Yeah, and then at eleven
she wakes up and see.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
They slept in So they were passed out. They were
all crashed from parting or whatever it was, or just
staying up late.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
You know. Also they did you know they released those photos.
I don't know if you saw it, but there was
a photo where you could see blood on the outside
of the house.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It was dripping through from where like a window cell
or something.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It's not from a window, it was from just like
when you see a house the found you can see
the foundations from the I don't it was from Ethan
because Ethan's on the second floor. It had dripped down
and it was coming out. You could see it from
the sighting coming down onto the foundation and they released
those photos, but no one knew who it was from.
(33:34):
And then it was later once these knew all this
new evidence has been released, it was from from Ethan.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
So Kaylee.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is why they thought Kaylee was the intended victim,
because she thought she was being followed, and the weeks
leading up to her death, Kaylee reportedly shared several unsettling
experiences with her room. This is according to these new
police documents that have been released. One roommate recalled that
Kaylee mentioned that she felt that someone had been following
her for two or three weeks prior to the attack.
(34:10):
In one instance, she reportedly saw a shadow while she
was outside with her dog, around the same time she
spotted an unknown man above their off campus house staring
at her when she took the dog outside. Investigators noted
these accounts and their reports, though they did not link
the suspect, Brian, to any of these earlier incidents. I
(34:30):
don't know. I mean, we know that he was talking
in the house.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
So if a child calls you and says, I think
someone's been following me, I mean, how would we respond, you.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Know, I don't know. I was just thinking the same
thing because we're parents, and Shelby's obviously, Shane's oldest daughter
is in was in college, and Chanelle's in college his
second oldest daughter. And if one of them called you
and said that they thought they were being followed and
they saw a man, what would you do?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Well, I would ask questions to learn, but I think
I would take action in depending on what it was.
You know, I would want them to not be alone.
I would probably you know, if are they following you
to your apartment? Do we need to like relocate you
or put you somewhere temporarily. I mean, I wouldn't just think, oh, well,
let's hope it stops.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, but I guess my question.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I know that Shelby Chanelle they call me when they're
walking late at night or something. They just don't want
to be alone, so that way they're at least on
the phone. I mean, you got to take measures. You
can't just downplay something is you can't just talk it
off as some weird guy that's following you. Yeah, did
they notify the parents of being No.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I think that's the issue. Was she never shared it
with her parents.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Parents, we're just talking about what we would do. I
would take action. I don't know what that would because
it would depend. Are they just falling around Walmart and
you've never seen him before after that? Or are they
around your apartment? You know? Are they your age? Are
you alone? And then based on the act to figure something out.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Also, according to all these new documents and evidence that
has been released, a redacted witness identified as a friend
and fellow WSU student told police that he saw noticeable
injuries on Brian Coberger in October and November of twenty
twenty two. The friend recalled seeing a scratch on Coburger's
face that resembled fingernail marks, as well as knuckle injuries
(36:10):
on more than one occasion. When questioned about the marks,
Coberger allegedly said that they were from a car accident.
Then another person comes forward and apparently he had a
tender match that had a chilling conversation with him. According
to the police reports, a woman who had matched with
Brian Coberger on tender.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I feel sad when this connection this is in.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Late twenty twenty two, came forward with a tip. In
March of twenty twenty four and was later interviewed by investigators.
She said that their conversations included topics like criminology, horror films,
and the murder of one of her friends. At one point,
Coberger aglation, no wonder they matched on tender she had
she had a friend that was.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Blood and you like him in blood. Yeah, you have.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
A friend that was murdered. That's interesting because I'd like
to murder people. At one point, Coburger alleged asked her
her opinion on the worst way to die. When she
responded by knife, he reportedly followed up with a question
referencing a k bar type of combat knife.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Which we do know is that the weapon that was
supposedly used. Right, right prosecutors buy some firecrackers.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
And some firecrackers. Apparently right prosecutors have said Coburger purchased
a k bar knife and sheath online prior to the murders.
We knew this, and we talked about this in the
prior podcast that we did, and that was if you
haven't listened to it and you don't know a lot
of details of the case, that was how they eventually
caught Brian Coberger was because the knife, sheath was actually
left behind in Maddie and Kayley's bed, and they found
(37:39):
the DNA on the knife sheath. The knife, the actual
weapon that was used has never been found, but they
didn't find the sheath had a little DNA on it,
and the DNA testing is so amazing. It was found
in Kaylee and Maddie's bed.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
He left it behind. Yeah, So what's logical and plausible
is he went to the third floor first to commit
his first murders. He pulls the knife out of the sheath,
goes through the murder transaction that leaves the heath, the
sheath sorry on the bed, goes downstairs, does some more murdering,
and then leaves and now it's upstairs. Right, So it
(38:15):
was first removed, right.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
The woman told police that she eventually cut off all
communication with Coburger because his questions were unsettling to her.
Investigators later attempted to retrieve tender records related to her tip,
but reported no matches based on the information available. They
noted they would seek a warrant if more identifying detail surface.
Here's the thing, is this someone who's just coming forward
(38:37):
and just putting themselves into a murder situation because they they're.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Because it's likes criminology.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Because weird people out there, right that like to get.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
If they can look at the intended the price, see
a chat history or something like that.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Well, they said they couldn't find, they couldn't investigate.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
At the end, doesn't change a whole lot. I guess
what they were looking for, see if there's any other
potential murder victims, right, because if they found him connected
with other tender people and those were murdered or something,
they can connect him. I'm sure that's what they were
looking for.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So Coburger's sole conversation with authorities was revealed. This is
after he's been arrested. Though Brian Coberger declined to answer
most questions following his arrest, he did briefly speak with
investigators during an initial interview in late twenty twenty two
at his family's Pennsylvania home. This is according to the
police records. At the start of the conversation, he expressed
concern for his parents and a dog in the wake
(39:28):
of the SWAT raid. He then made small talk mentioning
he was a doctoral student at Washington State University and
his goal of becoming a professor and the difficulty of
getting into a PhD program, and I read a little
bit about the dog, like people weren't sure which dog
he was referencing. They didn't know if he was referencing Murphy,
the dog that was in the house, and that maybe
(39:50):
he possibly put the dog in the room and shut
the door so the dog was okay. I don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
That's a theory that's possible.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
There's a lot of unanswered questions that still remained. Law
enforce horsement records do not clarify whether investigators ever uncovered
a motive behind the murders or identified a definitive connection
between Coburger and the victims. During his sentencing, Judge Stephen
Hipler described Coburger as a faceless coward and noted that
while many seek to understand his reasons, doing so risk
(40:17):
giving him undue influence. The judge emphasized that the crimes
defied any sense of rational explanation, adding that Coburger's moment
in the spotlight should now be over. At a press
conference held Wednesday, officials confirmed that they had not recovered
the weapon or clothing believed to have been used in
the attack. Also, during his sentencing, the victims were allowed
(40:40):
to make victim impact statements. And I don't know if
anyone has watched Olivia's impact statement. She's the sister of KAYLEI.
Her statement to him was phenomenal. I watched the whole
thing if you have the opportunity to find it. It
went viral and watched. Her name's Olivia and she's she's
(41:01):
the older sister of Kaylee.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, so Kaylee's sister. Olivia gave you victim's impact.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
But she made the statement it was really on behalf
of Kaylee and Maddie because they were best friends and
they were the ones that were in the bed together.
They had been best friends their whole life since they
were little kids, so she knew one was her sister,
but she also felt like like Mattie was a little
sister too. This is just some of what she said.
This is just some excerpts because we obviously you're not
going to read the whole statement. But Olivia gunnsalvs which
(41:28):
is Kaylee's older sister, she addressed Coburger directly and she said,
sit up straight when I talk to you on why
Kaylee would have retaliated, She said, if you had not
attacked them in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked her
focking ass. She also called him a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser,
insisting you didn't win, You aren't special or deep. No
(41:51):
one is scared of you. Today, she spoke on Maddie
and Kaylee's personalities, saying that they would have treated Coburger
with kindness if he had ever approached them and their
everyday lives. I also watched an interview with her after
the fact. I think it was on Good Morning America
or something like that, and it was really interesting to me.
She said that she for because she knew she was
going to give this victim impact statement, and she said
(42:15):
that she stalked him. She stalked the stalker. She said
she wanted to learn absolutely everything she possibly could about him,
so that when she gave this victim impact statement, it
wasn't She didn't say she wanted to do it for
Maddie and Kaylee. She wanted to do it on their behalf,
and so she really focused on him and making him
small and making him inadequate and just taking him down.
(42:39):
And she does. I don't know how she did it.
I have a sister. If I had to look at
my sister's killer. I don't think I could have gotten
through it, but she said it was I think maybe
like fifteen minutes. But she memorized the whole thing so
that she could look him in the eyes the entire time.
I want it was personal, too, campy, right, jab at
him right. And I really liked where she was coming from.
(43:01):
She didn't just stand up there and say, Maddie and
Kaylee were raised of sunshine and they were bright, you know,
and they are right. But she took a completely different
approach where it wasn't about them, it was just him,
and she found out every piece of information she could
about him so that she could just take him down.
And it was compelling, it was amazing. It was she
(43:23):
memorized it so she could look him in the eye
the whole time, and it was really good. If you
haven't watched the whole thing, I would suggest that you
find it. It's on TikTok, it's on YouTube, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
So it's Olivia's impact statement.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yes, Olivia's yeah. And she also says on Good Morning
America that she thoroughly thought that like she was going
to get arrested. I don't know why she thought she
was going to get arrested. I don't know if it's
because she felt like maybe it was too harsh, that
she'd be in contempt, but she even said that why,
she said.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Since I've seen some pretty good the only ones that
they do get detained is when they like jump over
the wall and you know, try to right. Even then
sometimes judges like give him a warning. Yeah, like like
you know, we can't be like that.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yeah. She also said, which I thought was interesting, that
she said when she was sitting in court before she
gave her victim impact statement, that she started to regret
or not. I don't know if the right word is regret,
but she started to change her victim impact statement because
his mother and sister were in court, and I think
maybe she she felt like maybe it was too harsh
or I mean I think.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Maybe I think maybe she still no.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I think maybe it was the thinking was is a mother,
I know, but I don't think she thought they would
be in court and I thought she no less badly
for them. Maybe maybe she had some compassion for them,
But then ultimately she just she decided to just go
forward with it as is. She said she was trying
to edit it and then she I think she said
(44:47):
her dad went. Did her dad go first? But anyway,
when Kaylee's dad gave his victim impact statement, he grabbed
the podium and he pulled it up so that he
was like right in front of Brian Coberger. And she
said when she saw her dad do that, that that
gave her the confidence to just go up there and
say exactly what she was going to say. All right.
(45:08):
So a lot of other family members gave victim impact statements.
They were really more about the children and their personalities.
I think Olivia's was just the most compelling because of
the way she went about doing it. So where will
Coburger go now? Brian Coberger was sentenced to four consecutive
life terms without parole at the Idaho Department of Correction.
It's located in Kuna, Idaho, about twenty miles from Boise,
(45:31):
and it's an Idaho maximum security institution and it houses
the state's most disruptive male residents and has a double
perimeter fence reinforced with razor wire and an electronic detection system.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Is the emailing solitary confinement we know.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I don't know about that, but I do know that
the facility was named one of the fifteen worst prisons
in America by Security Journal Americas in twenty twenty four,
joining other notorious lockups like Antiqua Correctional Facility in New York,
San Quentin, and California, and a d X Florence, also
known as the Alcatraz. I mean the rock that means
(46:08):
the worst of the worst. Here's the thing. I mean,
I don't know what people feel like in prison about
a man murdering for young you know, college students. So
we'll see how long.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Oh, how well he survives there?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Right, because Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. There's they're
you know, child molesters.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
And child and inmates have a hierarchy.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
They do, they do, So we'll see. I don't know,
Brian Coberger. We'll see what happens in prison. But anyway,
thank you guys so much for listening to Leli Brunette.
We really appreciate it, and thank you so much for
your feedback. I love that you guys dm me all
the time. You give me cases that you would like
us to look in, and you also just give feedback
and sometimes if we're incorrect. I appreciate that you give
(46:55):
us the heads up because we always try to be
as accurate as possible, even with these older keys and
conflicting evidence. We try to do a good job of,
you know, giving you as much factual information along with
our opinions at the same time. So thank you so
much for listening.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Thank you
Hi, everybody, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
will be your host today, Emily Simpson with just Shane.
I love that when you guys DM me about the
cases or what your feelings are for Legally Brunette, that
you always say just Shane entertains me or just Shane
is funny. So you've actually like you've become just Shane. Okay,
(00:22):
good Anyway, The first thing I just want to start
off with, as we did an episode yesterday on the
Amy Bradley disappearance, and a few of you DM me
you listen to it. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it.
And I know there were some conflicting reports as far
as whether she left her wallet behind, the key card behind,
(00:42):
the cigarettes behind. So I tried my best to research
and figure out, but it just really comes down to
it's just there's conflicting reports about what happened. I read
when Amy Bradley vanished from the cruise ship. Her wallet,
a box of cigarettes, and a lighter were reportedly left
behind in the cabin. Her sandals were all found inside
the suite. However, there are conflicting accounts about whether the
(01:04):
key card was left behind or somehow on her person
or lost. We don't know. And again it's been twenty
seven years. So I even think when the brother brad
if he's you know, he's on a media round right
now and he's doing podcasts, I don't know if he
even has a clear memory of the exact facts at
that time. So that's where the conflicts come in. So anyway,
(01:25):
we do our best to do the research and give
you accurate information, but you know, with a case that's
twenty seven years old, we don't always know exactly what happened.
In people's memories are a little off. I just had
one more thing to say about Amy Bradley that I
thought was a good point. When I was doing research,
there were some people and I thought this was I
never really thought about this, but Amy Bradley was on
a cruise ship with her family, and it really comes
(01:47):
down to whether she disappeared from falling or jumping off
the ship, or whether she was human trafficked in some
way and removed from the ship. And we were talking,
I was kind of like putting, you know, all these
detail into categories, trying to figure out which way I
wanted to go, and a point that leads to maybe
not possibly sex trafficing, is the fact that she was
(02:08):
on a ship with her family, and according to experts
in sex trafficking human trafficking, sex traffickers don't normally kidnap
or look for people that are with a family, more.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Like runaways or someone single, so they don't have someone
to look out for them or be trying to research and.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Investigation immediately when she's removed. If this is allegedly, if
she's allegedly removed from the ship or course or drugged
or taken or whatever, she has a family on the
ship that's going to immediately notice her disappearance and report it,
and there's going to be people immediately in action. So
that's not a normal victim of sex trafficking or human trafficking.
(02:47):
They normally search for people, for young people or whatever
that are alone, that aren't with a family, that aren't
with parents, things like that. So anyway, I just thought
that was a good point. I just wanted to add.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
To add to the mystery.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yes, well, we add more elements to the mystery, and
I'm just even confused. We're going to do some updates
on some other cases we've done. I just want to
do a brief update on Menindez because there's been some
action on the case. First of all, we do know
that I don't remember the exact date, but maybe it
was a month or so ago. The Meninda's brothers were
re sentenced.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
By a judge fifty years.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
They were given fifty years. They've already served. Well, they've
served enough time to be eligible for parole. So they
do have a parole hearing August twenty first and twenty second.
They have a parole hearing scheduled, so at that time
they could possibly be granted.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
They had one in June, right and it was rescheduled.
Was that because of the fires it was rescheduled?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I believe that as well.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Fires.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I think I think they did have a parole hearing earlier.
It was rescheduled because of the fires. Now they have
a parole here.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
It's going to be a tsunami.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Now it might be a tsunami. Yes, we were on
tsunami watch last night. Shane was not bothered at all
by the tsunami. I was having a nervous breakdown, but
other than that, that's usually how our marriage works.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So I slept fine.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Jame slept fine. I was up all night, like it's
a Sami going to hit our house. It didn't. So anyway,
so we have the parole hearing come up where they
could possibly be paroled and released that way. However, they
had a habeas petition and now this is a different,
completely different track. You've got the recencing, which is where
(04:23):
they're on track to possibly be parolled and they've been recentenced,
and then you have a completely different track, which is
the habeas petition. The habeas petition I believe was filed
back in I think twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three,
something like that, and it's basically what habeas means. It's
a Latin terms that basically means like bring the body
like it translates to and that is a Latin term
(04:45):
that has to do with if someone is unjustly detained.
The recentencing is by statute and it's completely different than
the habeas. The Habeast has to do with the new
evidence that resurfaced after they were sentenced. So the Habeas
is basically saying, hey, these guys are being unlawfully detained
because there is this new evidence that has come forward,
and the new evidence, if it was presented at the
(05:07):
time of trial. Most likely there would have been a
different verdict. And the two pieces of new evidence, which
we've talked about previously because we've done you know, we've
done a full Menindaz podcast at one point and when
we first started. But the two pieces of evidence are one.
It's the letter that Eric wrote to his cousin Andy
Conno back in Apparently he wrote it in nineteen ninety eight,
(05:33):
eighty eight. Sorry, there's so many decades in my life now.
I can't even keep trying the Milli Vanilli era. It
was written in eighty eight, eight months prior to the
actual killings, and he wrote his cousin making references to
the abuse with my dad is still going on. I'm
scared things like that. You can actually find the full
(05:54):
letter if you google it, but the letter was not found.
And this is conflicting too. But apparently this letter came
up in an interview with Barbara Walters in like twenty fifteen,
and then their attorneys were like, wait, we never heard
about this letter. And then Robert rand who is the
reporter that's been invested in the Menindez brothers for years
(06:17):
and years and years and wrote a book called The
Menindez brothers and I actually read it. He has a
good relationship with the family. Apparently, in like twenty eighteen,
he went to the ant's house and went through the
cousin's things. The cousin is no longer alive, he died.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Years ago, and that's how then the letter served.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The letter was found apparently in his personal effects. So
now this.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Letter proves, well, it tends to prove.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It tends to prove, proves, however, you want to look
at it, that the abuse was real, the abuse was ongoing,
and that Eric was reaching out to his cousin talking
about it prior to the murders. The second piece of
evidence that's presented in the habeas petition is the testimony
of the roy roussello from Minudo that claims that he
(07:05):
was sexually assaulted or abused by Jose he was very young.
Apparently he was taken to his home and abused. So
now you have two pieces of evidence that are you know,
alleging that.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It sounds like the resentencing is a more likely and
simpler approach if they can pull that off it not
you mean, not the resentsing, but the parole right, the
parole hearing, that would allow them to be released because
then they served adequate times.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, the habeas is interesting too, because the judge ruled
that the new evidence presented is he said, a prima
facie case, meaning prima facie means on the face that
evidence is credible. Yeah, So the way he looks at
it is like, on the face, this new evidence that
you have presented is credible and it would most likely
(07:52):
change the verdict if it had been presented at that time.
So now the ball is really in the court or
the ball is now.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
With the balls in the court of the court.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The ball is in the court of the court, the
ball is in the DA's hands, court whatever where they
have to prove that it's not credible.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So but really it's really a good thing for the
Menindaz brothers because the judge is like, hey, this is
credible evidence. I'm behind it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Now it's on you guys approve that it's not. So anyway,
that's where we're at with Meninda. They've got to really
two tracks of a way to be released, and I
really don't. I wasn't so sure before if they would
be released, and now I'm like, I think these I
think these guys are going to get out of prison
right and relatively soon.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, maybe very well. So yeah you might be having
lunch with them sooner than you thought I might.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I mean, it could happen. I mean my life keeps
coming full circle. So I feel like, you know, I
could sit down, maybe have we could do a little
podcast with them, maybe maybe all right. Also, Eric Menindez
has been hospitalized diagnosed with the serious medical condition.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Is that the kidney sounds.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, it says kidney issue. I don't know. Eric Menindez
family has confirmed he's in the hospital and has been
diagnosed with a serious medical condition. A number of US
outlets are reporting that Menindaz has a kidney issue all this,
although this has not been publicly confirmed. Menindaz was taken
from the San Diego prison in which he has been
held for years, to an outside medical facility. Mark Geragos,
(09:25):
who he appeared on TMZ, was calling for Eric Menindez's
immediate release, saying it's a serious condition and he thinks
that the parole should be furloughed. Parole furloughed, I believe
that means like just parole them and they can be
just out because he has a medical conditioning he needs
to be out.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
So I guess that serious sounds more than serious sounds
more than kidney stones. It might be like kidney failure
or infection or something.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Right, he says, I think the proper term, and he
could be medically furloughed in advance of the hearing so
that he can work with the parole attorney and get
up to s eat and be ready and do it
and give it his best shot. I think that's the
only fair and equitable thing to do, so basically saying
they should just be paroled early. He can work with
the parole attorney and then they can work things out
and hopefully he gets medical attention and release. So we
(10:14):
will continue to follow the Meninda's brothers. Let's go into
just a little update on Lively versus Baldoni. I actually
got really sick of talking about Blake Lively. She just
to me, in my humble opinion, I'm going to get
served a subpoena just by talking about her, So I
have to be careful. Hopefully they don't listen. Legally.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Brunette, you're I don't know what you think you have,
what kind of leverage you have to pull on that?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I'm only saying that because I don't know if
you've followed it, but apparently she sent subpoenas to all
these little tiny content creators.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Oh yeah, so we're really tiny then because we didn't
get didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Get well, we didn't get a subpoena. So apparently we're
not on the road.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Maybe one day, maybe I can get.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So Blake Lively drops her controversial investigation into small time
content creators. So apparently she's now dropping a lot of
these subpoenas. All these content creators were going nuts. I mean,
they didn't know, and this is an issue. First of all,
these are just a lot of them are just young
people that are out there.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
It's not it's not their d job creating their content, creators.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Their opinions.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And she was.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Subpoena and subpoena in ing, subpoena ninging, subpoena ing.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I can't even say that, say it subpoening.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
You can't say it either.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
No, But you know what a word that ends an
ing is called what a Jarrand oh well, thank you, sir.
The jarand of subpoena is very difficult.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It is very difficult. I'm just gonna say she sent subpoenas.
But the problem was these subpoenas were very overreaching. She
wanted bank statements and communications because her thinking, or her
attorneys thinking, was that these content creators, who were all
basically pro just some Baldoni, that there's no way they
(12:02):
could have been pro justin Baldoni unless they were getting
paid from this camp. So they were asking for bank
statements because they were looking for proof that, like all
these content creators were being you know, paid to create
content that goes against her.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
What she's thinking is why didn't we think of that? Right,
we're gonna take them down? Why didn't we think of that?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
But you know what that goes to again, This is
what I keep thinking when I read about this stuff,
is that her ego is so out of control.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Well, she's like making Markle. She just doesn't she has
no she's toned deaf with like no self awareness.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
No, Like she couldn't think, hey, I look bad because
I just look bad. It has to be I look
bad and they're making me look bad because they're getting
paid to make me look bad.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It couldn't be that they really think that I look
because I look bad. I don't look bad, right, and
making Marco friends. I don't know, probably, i'd imagine, so
they'd probably get along. Do they share the same our
crisis team?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Wow? I feel like when you have a PR crisis team, like,
you shouldn't brag about it.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
You shouldn't be playing victim.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Right, But whatever, we'll move on from that. In court
documents obtained by US Weekly, Lively's legal team and form
the court of her decision to withdraw the subpoenas on
July twenty, six, days after the YouTubers asked the judge
to intervene. I know a lot of I watched some
of this content, and a lot of these YouTubers and
small time content makers, they were really freaking out because
they didn't have because they don't have the money to
(13:32):
go and hire their attorneys.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Nor do they nor did they have any interest, like
any anticipation. They didn't assume that they'd be taken in
hauled into court. They were just sharing on their Instagram
accounts like news, and they probably shared lots of news
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
It's pop culture, right, and it's also to me, it's
also forbid.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
People don't like like Lively.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I mean allowed, right, I mean lots of people don't
like me.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
That's correct. We could just I've met some of them.
We could just go through my idea. May or may
not be one on the couchrade.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Oh my gosh. And a letter submitted to the judge,
Lively's attorneys stated, based on the third party's representations made
and meet and confers, public statements and or information provided
in their moving papers, there is no further information required
from the subpoenas as to these specific third parties at
this time, they continued. Miss Lively has therefore withdrawn the
subpoenas as to them. You know, and I think the
(14:30):
reason that they withdrew the subpoenas is because they just
keep getting more backlash, Like I don't understand their decision
making process where they just keep making movements forward that
that create more backlash.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, I don't know, And they're probably not getting the
greatest advice in the attorneys. I'm sure the attorneys are thinking,
look at all those billable hours.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Well, yeah, at the end of the day, did the
attorney's care. They don't care. They don't care what her
reputation is.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Bla's going to send her zealously until she stops paying exactly.
That's really all it is right.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But that's a lot of bill Can you imagine the
billable hours it took to send all those subpoena out
to all those content creators? What I mean, her legal
fees are astronomical At this point, it's her problem. Lively's
lawyers also have also sent subpoenas to outspoken critics of hers,
including Perez Hilton and Candace Owens. As for the next steps,
Lively's scheduled deposition has been delayed and she will no
(15:23):
longer be questioned by Baldoni's attorneys on Juel High thirty first.
I was actually in New York City when she was
supposed to be deposed, and I know Brian Friedman was
in New York City at the same time. I was
hoping to just, you know, randomly run into everyone else.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Position Hello, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I thought this was a watch Why it Happens Live.
I'm in the wrong studio.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
But unfortunately, I don't think they do depots and studios.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Why not? I mean, these are all these are all
entertainment people. Anyway, Well, I I don't know the exact
details of why did not take place. It did not
take place.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Probably Megan Markle, She's probably like, you don't have to
show up to those things.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well, you'd think those two are best friends and they're
giving each other advice and people.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
They're totally tone deaf with what the public thinks of it.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So anyway, then her deposition got scheduled again.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I didn't know you had a soft spot for megian Markle.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I don't at all. So I did, but I didn't
know you disliked her so much.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
She's very tone deaf.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
The case is set to proceed to trial on March ninth,
twenty twenty six, where both sides will finally have their
day in court. I don't know. I still I still
feel like at this point, Blake Lively needs to just
like back out, let it go, try to save some face.
I say that every time we talk about it, but
it just seems like every time I say she needs
to say face and back out, she does something more outrageous.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So so what, you know, what's their next move? There
was a new date.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
For her to be deposed, and then I just read
as I was like googling more information that that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
She's getting movie deals. So what's she so busy with
that she can't do the depot?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I don't I don't know. You should ask her or
ask Megan Markle your friend.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, I'm going to slip in their DMS.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Okay, let me know how that goes. So we're gonna
move on to Brian Coberger. I did not think we've
already done a full episode if you guys haven't listened
to it on the Idaho murders and Brian Coberger. Actually,
I don't even like to use his name reference now, Okay,
(17:20):
So a lot of these people that are talking about
the Idaho murder case are referring to I don't like
to use killer, mister killer as inmate number blah blah
blah blah.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well not bloo, it's not okay, go ahead, it's the
number one six three two, one.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Four, one six three two one four Okay. So now
every single one six three, I can't remember that one
six three two.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
How about inmate nutcase.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Inmate psychopo. Let's just call him psychopath and may leave
it at that. So now we know the gag order
has been lifted on this case because he took a
plea deal. So when he took the plea deal, all
this evidence that had been preserved, the witnesses that were
under a gag order. Now everyone is coming forward. All
this information is coming out daily. He took a plea deal.
(18:08):
He's in prison, so now it's done, it's over. So
now there's all this detailed information coming forward. So there's
more than three hundred documents were released by the Moscow
Police Department. The new documents shed light on the brutality
of the slayings, details about the days and weeks that
led up to the murders, and the extensive pool of
evidence that investigators have been gathering against mister psychopath. Okay,
(18:33):
so let's just go through some of this new information
that's come forward. The bodies were found brutally savage, and
this is I.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Did we okay not to do we not know that?
Though I thought we assumed, we assume.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Now this is what we knew before all this information
is coming forward. We knew that four college students were
murdered with a knife. Okay, and that's really the exciting We.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Assumed it was gruesome, but it's just showing it's much
more gruesome now. Kaylee's the intended target.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
That's what they think. Yeah, they think that Kaylee is
the intended target.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And that is that because there was some connection with
him in her like DMS or something.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
No, the police have come forward and the investigators have
said that there is no evidence that there was any
kind of interaction with him.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
On why do we believe Kaylee's the first was the target?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Now that all this stuff is coming forward, there have
been witnesses have come forward and said that days leading
up to the murder that Kaylee had thought she was
being followed by someone and that she had some.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Sort of stalker okay.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And also they think maybe Kaylee was the intended victim
because she was the only one that had the injuries
where he actually choked her asphyxiated her, and none of
the other ones did So that was more I guess
you could say from a psychological perspective, that was more
of a intimate type killing. That was more of a
personal something. That's so that's why they think she was
(19:48):
the intended victim. Okay. So Maddie and Kaylee were the
first two. They're on the third floor. Mattie Morgan had
visible cuts on her forearm and hands and severe facial trauma.
That's new. We did not know that her face was
basically disfigured, so from a weapon or well, it says
Madison had a gash under her right eye which appeared
(20:10):
to go from the corner of her eye to her nose. Kaylee,
who we think was the intended victim, suffered such facial
injuries that she was nearly disfigured. And actually one of
the housemates that survived that tried to identify the body
identified her wrong in the beginning because she was so
completely disfigured. I guess they now think that there was
(20:32):
a second murder weapon, not just the knife that has
never been found, but they found the knife sheath. But
apparently Kaylee's wounds to her face had some sort of
like diagonal pattern, like blunt force trauma, So that's how
he disfigured her face.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So there is some second Okay, so we're stepping upstairs
with the first two murders.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
We're still on the third floor.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Downstairs, Yeah, and there's people downstairs. Well, you said third floor.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
He started on the third floor, Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So is anyone on the second fl do we know?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yes, So he started on the third floor. That's Kaylee
and Madison. So we just talked about their wounds. Then
he goes down to the second floor. I don't know,
perhaps he was leaving, and they think that maybe in
the hallway he ran into Xana because this is the
same timeframe when Xana got a door dash delivery, so
she had gone down to the kitchen to get food
(21:21):
right at the same time that he's in the house.
So they think that possibly he ran into her on
the hallway and then they went fight whatever happened, and
he followed her into her bedroom on the second floor.
So now we're to Xana.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
This is why you always ask me to go get
your door dash late at night.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You're like, can you go down? And says you get
my DoorDash?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I never go get the door dash.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I'm not getting murdered. Let my husband do that.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, that's why do you think I have so much
life insurance on you? All right, so now let's go
back to Xana. Here. The Xana one is the most
confusing for me.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So I'm sorry, what floor is on the third? Second?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
There's so many floors in this house. Well, I guess
there's there's three, but it feels like a lot. It
feels like there's a lot in this house and there's
a lot of people. All Right, we are now on
the second floor. Okay, we started on the third floor.
He's leaving, he's going down to the second.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Floor, and what happens on the second floor He.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Runs into Xana allegedly and then I mean, we don't
nobody know.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
This is believed to be right.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I mean, we're just putting it together based on the
evidence and what they know. So apparently he runs into Xana.
There's a and then they go into the second floor
bedroom and Xana is sharing the bedroom with Ethan, her boyfriend.
Ethan is in the bed asleep. This is the part
where I'm completely confused, he gets. They get in a
fight like a I mean, Xanna is going hard, like
(22:55):
they're not in that. They're in the bedroom at the
end of the bed. So Xana's body was found at
the end of the bed on the floor, so she
is not in the bed. They have a vicious, brutal
fight between the two of them.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And Ethans sound asleep and Ethan's in the bed asleep.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
This is what I don't understand. Xanna's like fighting it
out with a killer in her.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Bed, passed out or something.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
How do you not hear? I don't know if I'm
getting murdered at the end of our bed, you better
get up.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I will and do something. I get up when you
have to go to the bathroom, and then you say
turn the ac on right.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So, if I'm getting murdered at the end of our bed,
can you please get up and fight the guy?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, the question is why didn't he wake up? Assuming
he was asleep? I didn't say that sleep or did
he wake up? He's still alive? Right?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Oh? And then he was killed too, Yes, he's number four. Yes,
So how do we know he's asleep during this whole time?
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Well, I don't. I can't confirm that he's asleep.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But why did you say he was asleep? I didn't
say he was.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
This is what I'm confused about. I know he was
in the bed. He's in the bed, and Xana is
at the foot of the bed fighting it out with
the murderer. She gets stabbed over fifty times. She has
defensive wound.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
And you're assuming that Ethan didn't Now and now I'm
going to defend Ethan. You're assuming that he didn't do anything.
You don't know that. How do you know he didn't
wake up and challenge this guy? And then he's in
the scuffle too.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Because as far as I know, he doesn't have defensive wounds,
and they found him asleep in the bed. I mean
they found him in the bed.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Okay, so how was he killed?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
He was stabbed?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Okay, So maybe as a possibility, he is killed first,
and then she wakes up and he fights with her,
and this guy's incapacitated.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
If he was killing Ethan first, then Xanna, I would
assume she's pretty feisty. She's got fifty defensive wounds, she's
fastist guy.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
He was stabbed first. He was stabbed, and he was incapacitated.
She jumps up and she's fighting and she's defensive.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Okay, Well, maybe that's a good theory.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
We think about it. If you have a male and
a female in a bed, and you have a killer
in the room, who's and the killer wants to kill
them both? Who's he going to kill first? He's probably
going to go after the mail.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay, all right, that's a good theory. I like your theory.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
We'll go with that, okay, thank you. All Right, See
what happens if you listen to me once in a while.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
I don't like to listen to you anyway. The other
question I have is there is a dog in the house,
and I cannot understand what the first of all dog,
I don't know his name. I don't know what his
name's Murphy. And they find Murphy the next day in
a room so one. I don't know how Murphy just
got into this room, like shut in a room.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Maybe he was always put to sleep in a different
room or something.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I don't know. But I have three dogs, and I'm
telling you, if there was a like multiple murders taking
place in the house, our dogs would be going nuts.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
No one would two would run away, two.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Would run away. One would fight, Yes, but they would bark,
they would there would be noise, they would be.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I don't know. I just need to know what kind
of dog Murphy is.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Why do you need to know what kind of dog?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
It makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Well, I don't think he's a German Shepherd or anything
like that. I think he's he's a.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Gold See, he's a golden doodle.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
That's why Murphy. That's why Murphy didn't jump in see
the mystery saw. Murphy was like, I gotta do my
golden doodle thing. I'm just gonna hang out over here. See,
I have a German shepherd husky mix named Togo. And
I'm telling you that dog would fight to the better
bitter end for my life.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Unless the person has a vacuum or an he is
scared run away.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
That is true. This is how you could kill me.
Bring a vacuum, my.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Dog, run the house clean, could kill you, and he'd
be You wouldn't do anything. That is true.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Okay, thank you for that, all right. Ethan Chapin is
believed to have been killed in his sleep with a
stab wound that severed the jugular vein in his neck. Well,
I guess that's a clean, fast kill. So I don't know.
So you think he went into the room, saw that
there was a male, killed him first, and then he
and Xanna fought it out.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yes, thank you, okay, whatever, all right. I'm still I'm
still I still have to say.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I am still confused by the fact that there are
two other roommates in the house. It's three floors. He
murders four people in the span of like ten minutes.
Tops right, that he murders four people, and we know
that he and Xanna I had a fight. She's got
all these defensive wounds. There's a dog in the house.
I mean there had to have been screaming.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Was there?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I mean, was it? I don't understand that. Was it quiet?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
How many survivors from this home?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
There's two, But I don't understand why there wasn't more sound,
more reaction, Like why if he's murdering them and there's
defensive woes and there's fighting, why is there not more?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Again, there are college students. It was their outlaid and
they go to a food truck and things like that.
Isn't it possible that they were drunk and passed out
or just you know, I don't mean to say I'm
not trying to judge them, but I'm just saying, like,
you know, that's possible.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I know about it.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I partied out, yeah, but I.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Don't feel like I'd ever been so incapacitated that if
I heard like a major fight going on that I
I it's inclined.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I agree, it's questionable.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I mean, I don't think they're involved in any way.
I just don't understand how.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I'm sure that they also questioned that themselves, and I'm
sure they don't feel good about the fact that they
slept through it all.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
No, they have survivor guilt and all this trauma. Now,
I mean, these I feel sorry for what they went through.
So Bethany Funk, one of the two surviving roommates, told
police she was awoken by what sounded like a firecracker
and noticed a flashing light through the bottom of her door.
According to a police report, she and Dylan those are
the two surviving roommates, spoke by phone. Dylan later said
(28:45):
the mail in black was walking out the back door
and they had made eye contact with each other, and
that he was white, with a big nose and holding
a small vacuum type object. I read it was a container,
like a container. And then some people speculated that he
took the door dash food, like did he get a
container from the kitchen and.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Like take the food with him? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I don't know either, but she said it looked like
he was holding like a container when he left when
he got the one girl that saw him leaving, that's odd.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
And the firecracker, well, if assuming that she saw it
correctly and it wasn't like she was just traumatized and
you know a lot of images in her head that
you think that's a gun.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Well you would think, but there's no shells, and there's
no bullets and nobody has any bullet one and then.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That you would beg the question of why did anyone
wake up if there was a gunshots or firecrackers. There's
at least firecrackers.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well that's what they said. They said, she said she
saw like a light in something that sounded like a firecracker. Again,
they didn't call the police. By the way, they saw
an intruder leaving with a to go container and they
saw or heard something that looked like a firetra that.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I mean, it's three floors, there's a number of college kids,
there's probably a lot of people that come and go,
so it was probably enough for them to initially think, oh,
it's just a visitor or friend or whatever for the
third floor or whatever, and then maybe they got a
little spooked and scared, and then the guy walks out.
So I mean, I can imagine something like that happening.
I think also said, you're just on this impression. When
(30:14):
the murder take place, everyone's supposed to just jump up
and react and attack the murder or run away and
call police in two seconds. And the dog's supposed attack
regardless of the pot it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Just seems like that's what would happen with four people
being murdered in the midst of the night. But so
Dylan went down to Bethany's room, and the two tried
calling their roommates, but no one picked up. They didn't
call the police immediately because they were drunk and groggy
and from the night before and thought the situation might
just be a misunderstanding. I do understand that these girls
(30:45):
are young, and that they're in college, and that they've
been drinking, and I also know that their house was
considered like a party house, see, and so I think
when she saw someone leaving, instead of thinking that's an
intruder that just killed my roommates, it's easier to think
that's just someone I was here partying and drink and
is now leaving out a side door. So I mean
(31:06):
what I said. She said she even thought that it
was possibly a prank by one of Ethan's fraternity brothers.
So later on Bethanye will.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Say that when I was in college, yeah, with it
in a house and the upstairs was not connected downstairs,
there was a stairway that was outside right that went
up and there was about six to seven guys upstairs
and six to seven guys downstairs, and both doors upstairs
and downstairs. We never locked ever, we didn't even have
a key to it.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Well, I don't think they locked this door.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Came in and out all the.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Time, and I think this is what this house was like.
There was like a sliding glass door. I think it
was always unlocked. I think it was considered the party house.
And I think you think that this coming and going.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
This guy stood out there and maybe saw them people
going in and out and realized it's unlocked. I can
go in and out.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Well, probably because he had been stalking their house and
he made several drive bys. So later on, Bethany calls
her parents at seven thirty am about a toothache before
going back to sleep. When she woke up again around eleven,
she noticed the house was still unusually quiet. She also
noted that Xanna's Snapchat location wasn't on when it should
have been, so then Dylan and Bethany call and asked
(32:12):
two friends to come over because they were scared. When
one friend went upstairs and saw something concerning, they urged
Bethany and Dylan to leave the house and call for help.
According to the report, Bethany saw Xana's body through a
cracked bedroom door, wearing just a sweatshirt and her underwear.
And then that is when they dialed nine one one.
And this is at noon, So noon, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
That's when they pretty much woke up.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And well that's when they finally were I mean they
saw a body and a friend came over the.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Time they woke up and like, how much time passed
with them in the morning.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Without Yeah, I said, at seven thirty am, she was
calling her parents saying she had a toothache, but then
she went back to sleep. Yeah, and then at eleven
she wakes up and see.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
They slept in So they were passed out. They were
all crashed from parting or whatever it was, or just
staying up late.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
You know. Also they did you know they released those photos.
I don't know if you saw it, but there was
a photo where you could see blood on the outside
of the house.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It was dripping through from where like a window cell
or something.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It's not from a window, it was from just like
when you see a house the found you can see
the foundations from the I don't it was from Ethan
because Ethan's on the second floor. It had dripped down
and it was coming out. You could see it from
the sighting coming down onto the foundation and they released
those photos, but no one knew who it was from.
(33:34):
And then it was later once these knew all this
new evidence has been released, it was from from Ethan.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
So Kaylee.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
This is why they thought Kaylee was the intended victim,
because she thought she was being followed, and the weeks
leading up to her death, Kaylee reportedly shared several unsettling
experiences with her room. This is according to these new
police documents that have been released. One roommate recalled that
Kaylee mentioned that she felt that someone had been following
her for two or three weeks prior to the attack.
(34:10):
In one instance, she reportedly saw a shadow while she
was outside with her dog, around the same time she
spotted an unknown man above their off campus house staring
at her when she took the dog outside. Investigators noted
these accounts and their reports, though they did not link
the suspect, Brian, to any of these earlier incidents. I
(34:30):
don't know. I mean, we know that he was talking
in the house.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
So if a child calls you and says, I think
someone's been following me, I mean, how would we respond, you.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Know, I don't know. I was just thinking the same
thing because we're parents, and Shelby's obviously, Shane's oldest daughter
is in was in college, and Chanelle's in college his
second oldest daughter. And if one of them called you
and said that they thought they were being followed and
they saw a man, what would you do?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Well, I would ask questions to learn, but I think
I would take action in depending on what it was.
You know, I would want them to not be alone.
I would probably you know, if are they following you
to your apartment? Do we need to like relocate you
or put you somewhere temporarily. I mean, I wouldn't just think, oh, well,
let's hope it stops.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, but I guess my question.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I know that Shelby Chanelle they call me when they're
walking late at night or something. They just don't want
to be alone, so that way they're at least on
the phone. I mean, you got to take measures. You
can't just downplay something is you can't just talk it
off as some weird guy that's following you. Yeah, did
they notify the parents of being No.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I think that's the issue. Was she never shared it
with her parents.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Parents, we're just talking about what we would do. I
would take action. I don't know what that would because
it would depend. Are they just falling around Walmart and
you've never seen him before after that? Or are they
around your apartment? You know? Are they your age? Are
you alone? And then based on the act to figure something out.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Also, according to all these new documents and evidence that
has been released, a redacted witness identified as a friend
and fellow WSU student told police that he saw noticeable
injuries on Brian Coberger in October and November of twenty
twenty two. The friend recalled seeing a scratch on Coburger's
face that resembled fingernail marks, as well as knuckle injuries
(36:10):
on more than one occasion. When questioned about the marks,
Coberger allegedly said that they were from a car accident.
Then another person comes forward and apparently he had a
tender match that had a chilling conversation with him. According
to the police reports, a woman who had matched with
Brian Coberger on tender.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I feel sad when this connection this is in.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Late twenty twenty two, came forward with a tip. In
March of twenty twenty four and was later interviewed by investigators.
She said that their conversations included topics like criminology, horror films,
and the murder of one of her friends. At one point,
Coberger aglation, no wonder they matched on tender she had
she had a friend that was.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Blood and you like him in blood. Yeah, you have.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
A friend that was murdered. That's interesting because I'd like
to murder people. At one point, Coburger alleged asked her
her opinion on the worst way to die. When she
responded by knife, he reportedly followed up with a question
referencing a k bar type of combat knife.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Which we do know is that the weapon that was
supposedly used. Right, right prosecutors buy some firecrackers.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
And some firecrackers. Apparently right prosecutors have said Coburger purchased
a k bar knife and sheath online prior to the murders.
We knew this, and we talked about this in the
prior podcast that we did, and that was if you
haven't listened to it and you don't know a lot
of details of the case, that was how they eventually
caught Brian Coberger was because the knife, sheath was actually
left behind in Maddie and Kayley's bed, and they found
(37:39):
the DNA on the knife sheath. The knife, the actual
weapon that was used has never been found, but they
didn't find the sheath had a little DNA on it,
and the DNA testing is so amazing. It was found
in Kaylee and Maddie's bed.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
He left it behind. Yeah, So what's logical and plausible
is he went to the third floor first to commit
his first murders. He pulls the knife out of the sheath,
goes through the murder transaction that leaves the heath, the
sheath sorry on the bed, goes downstairs, does some more murdering,
and then leaves and now it's upstairs. Right, So it
(38:15):
was first removed, right.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
The woman told police that she eventually cut off all
communication with Coburger because his questions were unsettling to her.
Investigators later attempted to retrieve tender records related to her tip,
but reported no matches based on the information available. They
noted they would seek a warrant if more identifying detail surface.
Here's the thing, is this someone who's just coming forward
(38:37):
and just putting themselves into a murder situation because they they're.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Because it's likes criminology.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Because weird people out there, right that like to get.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
If they can look at the intended the price, see
a chat history or something like that.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Well, they said they couldn't find, they couldn't investigate.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
At the end, doesn't change a whole lot. I guess
what they were looking for, see if there's any other
potential murder victims, right, because if they found him connected
with other tender people and those were murdered or something,
they can connect him. I'm sure that's what they were
looking for.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So Coburger's sole conversation with authorities was revealed. This is
after he's been arrested. Though Brian Coberger declined to answer
most questions following his arrest, he did briefly speak with
investigators during an initial interview in late twenty twenty two
at his family's Pennsylvania home. This is according to the
police records. At the start of the conversation, he expressed
concern for his parents and a dog in the wake
(39:28):
of the SWAT raid. He then made small talk mentioning
he was a doctoral student at Washington State University and
his goal of becoming a professor and the difficulty of
getting into a PhD program, and I read a little
bit about the dog, like people weren't sure which dog
he was referencing. They didn't know if he was referencing Murphy,
the dog that was in the house, and that maybe
(39:50):
he possibly put the dog in the room and shut
the door so the dog was okay. I don't know, but.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
That's a theory that's possible.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
There's a lot of unanswered questions that still remained. Law
enforce horsement records do not clarify whether investigators ever uncovered
a motive behind the murders or identified a definitive connection
between Coburger and the victims. During his sentencing, Judge Stephen
Hipler described Coburger as a faceless coward and noted that
while many seek to understand his reasons, doing so risk
(40:17):
giving him undue influence. The judge emphasized that the crimes
defied any sense of rational explanation, adding that Coburger's moment
in the spotlight should now be over. At a press
conference held Wednesday, officials confirmed that they had not recovered
the weapon or clothing believed to have been used in
the attack. Also, during his sentencing, the victims were allowed
(40:40):
to make victim impact statements. And I don't know if
anyone has watched Olivia's impact statement. She's the sister of KAYLEI.
Her statement to him was phenomenal. I watched the whole
thing if you have the opportunity to find it. It
went viral and watched. Her name's Olivia and she's she's
(41:01):
the older sister of Kaylee.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Okay, so Kaylee's sister. Olivia gave you victim's impact.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
But she made the statement it was really on behalf
of Kaylee and Maddie because they were best friends and
they were the ones that were in the bed together.
They had been best friends their whole life since they
were little kids, so she knew one was her sister,
but she also felt like like Mattie was a little
sister too. This is just some of what she said.
This is just some excerpts because we obviously you're not
going to read the whole statement. But Olivia gunnsalvs which
(41:28):
is Kaylee's older sister, she addressed Coburger directly and she said,
sit up straight when I talk to you on why
Kaylee would have retaliated, She said, if you had not
attacked them in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked her
focking ass. She also called him a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser,
insisting you didn't win, You aren't special or deep. No
(41:51):
one is scared of you. Today, she spoke on Maddie
and Kaylee's personalities, saying that they would have treated Coburger
with kindness if he had ever approached them and their
everyday lives. I also watched an interview with her after
the fact. I think it was on Good Morning America
or something like that, and it was really interesting to me.
She said that she for because she knew she was
going to give this victim impact statement, and she said
(42:15):
that she stalked him. She stalked the stalker. She said
she wanted to learn absolutely everything she possibly could about him,
so that when she gave this victim impact statement, it
wasn't She didn't say she wanted to do it for
Maddie and Kaylee. She wanted to do it on their behalf,
and so she really focused on him and making him
small and making him inadequate and just taking him down.
(42:39):
And she does. I don't know how she did it.
I have a sister. If I had to look at
my sister's killer. I don't think I could have gotten
through it, but she said it was I think maybe
like fifteen minutes. But she memorized the whole thing so
that she could look him in the eyes the entire time.
I want it was personal, too, campy, right, jab at
him right. And I really liked where she was coming from.
(43:01):
She didn't just stand up there and say, Maddie and
Kaylee were raised of sunshine and they were bright, you know,
and they are right. But she took a completely different
approach where it wasn't about them, it was just him,
and she found out every piece of information she could
about him so that she could just take him down.
And it was compelling, it was amazing. It was she
(43:23):
memorized it so she could look him in the eye
the whole time, and it was really good. If you
haven't watched the whole thing, I would suggest that you
find it. It's on TikTok, it's on YouTube, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
So it's Olivia's impact statement.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yes, Olivia's yeah. And she also says on Good Morning
America that she thoroughly thought that like she was going
to get arrested. I don't know why she thought she
was going to get arrested. I don't know if it's
because she felt like maybe it was too harsh, that
she'd be in contempt, but she even said that why,
she said.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Since I've seen some pretty good the only ones that
they do get detained is when they like jump over
the wall and you know, try to right. Even then
sometimes judges like give him a warning. Yeah, like like
you know, we can't be like that.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yeah. She also said, which I thought was interesting, that
she said when she was sitting in court before she
gave her victim impact statement, that she started to regret
or not. I don't know if the right word is regret,
but she started to change her victim impact statement because
his mother and sister were in court, and I think
maybe she she felt like maybe it was too harsh
or I mean I think.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Maybe I think maybe she still no.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I think maybe it was the thinking was is a mother,
I know, but I don't think she thought they would
be in court and I thought she no less badly
for them. Maybe maybe she had some compassion for them,
But then ultimately she just she decided to just go
forward with it as is. She said she was trying
to edit it and then she I think she said
(44:47):
her dad went. Did her dad go first? But anyway,
when Kaylee's dad gave his victim impact statement, he grabbed
the podium and he pulled it up so that he
was like right in front of Brian Coberger. And she
said when she saw her dad do that, that that
gave her the confidence to just go up there and
say exactly what she was going to say. All right.
(45:08):
So a lot of other family members gave victim impact statements.
They were really more about the children and their personalities.
I think Olivia's was just the most compelling because of
the way she went about doing it. So where will
Coburger go now? Brian Coberger was sentenced to four consecutive
life terms without parole at the Idaho Department of Correction.
It's located in Kuna, Idaho, about twenty miles from Boise,
(45:31):
and it's an Idaho maximum security institution and it houses
the state's most disruptive male residents and has a double
perimeter fence reinforced with razor wire and an electronic detection system.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Is the emailing solitary confinement we know.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I don't know about that, but I do know that
the facility was named one of the fifteen worst prisons
in America by Security Journal Americas in twenty twenty four,
joining other notorious lockups like Antiqua Correctional Facility in New York,
San Quentin, and California, and a d X Florence, also
known as the Alcatraz. I mean the rock that means
(46:08):
the worst of the worst. Here's the thing. I mean,
I don't know what people feel like in prison about
a man murdering for young you know, college students. So
we'll see how long.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Oh, how well he survives there?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Right, because Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. There's they're
you know, child molesters.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
And child and inmates have a hierarchy.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
They do, they do, So we'll see. I don't know,
Brian Coberger. We'll see what happens in prison. But anyway,
thank you guys so much for listening to Leli Brunette.
We really appreciate it, and thank you so much for
your feedback. I love that you guys dm me all
the time. You give me cases that you would like
us to look in, and you also just give feedback
and sometimes if we're incorrect. I appreciate that you give
(46:55):
us the heads up because we always try to be
as accurate as possible, even with these older keys and
conflicting evidence. We try to do a good job of,
you know, giving you as much factual information along with
our opinions at the same time. So thank you so
much for listening.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Thank you
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Teddi Mellencamp
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