Legally Brunette: The Gilgo Beach Murders

This week, we’re talking about the Long Island serial killer that went unidentified for over a decade despite 11 bodies being discovered.

Plus, we’re going over Diddy’s new motion for a retrial.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I
will be your host today Emily Simpson and Shane and
Shane Simpson. Okay, first of all, we just want to
do a little updates. We always like to do updates
at the beginning of the episode on previous cases we
have talked about. So, there were some things about the
Diddy case that came up in the news. Did you

(00:21):
read anything about it?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
No? Is he He's still a dirtbag right?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yes? Okay, Well, what's going on right now is that
Diddy's defense team is arguing that the Man Act, which
is how he was convicted. Now you do remember that
the large charges against him, like the racketeering, conspiracy and
the trafficking, and then all that was left that he's
going to be because he's still on drill. He has

(00:47):
to be sentence, but he's just going to be sentenced
under the smaller charges. Anyway, his defense team is arguing
that the Man Act is unconstitutional and that was what
he was convicted under as far as transporting. Remember he
was just convicted of transporting prostitutes or sex acts or whatever.
The Man Act, also known as the White Slave Traffic Act,

(01:10):
as a law that prohibits the transportation of individuals across
state lines or international borders with intent that such individual
engage in prostitution or any sexual activity. So the law
has a very broad wording, and subsequent Supreme Court interpretation
has allowed prosecutors to bring cases against this is in

(01:31):
the past unlawful pre marital, extramarital and interracial couples. So
basically there are arguing. His defense team is arguing that
this is basically an outdated, you know act that has
roots in racism, that was really had broad language so
that you could target interracial couples, and it was used

(01:53):
with R. Kelly. That's how he was convicted. He was
convicted under the Man Acts. So Cumb's defense team is arguing.
So they argued back in February that the Man Act
has a racist history, claiming that he was targeted for
being a powerful black man and what was racist and
its inception has often been racist in its operation. That's
what the legal team claims. His attorneys said this in

(02:15):
a court filing, claiming that no white person had faced
a similar prosecution with the Man Act. Now the question
is what if it is deemed to be unconstitutional, Well,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Is the age having any age alone doesn't make it
like to eliminate it because it's like, well, murder's been
illegal for a thousand years.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, I guess when you look back at the intent
of the law and when it was enacted, the purpose
was to possibly target inter racial couples. And are we
now using it to prosecute a black man? And that
is I'm not no, no, but I'm when I say we,

(02:54):
I mean the prosecution is that is that the intent there?
If it's to be unconstitutional, what are the after effects?
I mean R Kelly was convicted under it?

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Does he get out?

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Also, just a little other update on the Ditty case.
Do you remember when we were talking about Didty earlier
and there was another victim. She was she was named
victim number three in the indictment and that she was
supposed to testify, She was subpoena.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
To testify, and then she back down or disappeared.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well, the prosecution was like they couldn't get a hold
of her, or she quit responding, her attorney quit responding
on her behalf. So basically she ended up am I
a no show? So victim number three in the indictment
her name was Gina, and she previously identified in court
documents as victim number three. However, Gina has now submitted
a letter to a New York judge in support of Ditty,

(03:44):
asking that he'd be granted bail. She's asking the judge
to consider Combs's role as a family man and allow
him to remain free while under court supervision. In the letter,
which was filed by Combs's defense team back on August third,
Gina described Ditty as someone who had worked to better himself,

(04:06):
noting that although although their relationship had had its challenges,
Combs has shown growth over time. She wrote, quote, he
was willing to acknowledge his mistakes and make a better
decisions in the future, adding that by the end of
our relationship he had developed an energy of love, patience,
and gentleness. And do you remember we also talked about

(04:26):
this in an earlier episode, how he had and I'm
sure this is in response to all the lawsuits that
were coming out against him. But remember, you know he's
changed his name multiple times. He was like puff Daddy,
and then he became p Diddy, and then I think
his most recent name change was he changed his name
to like Sean love Combs or something like that. So
Gina goes on to emphasize that Colmbs had not been

(04:49):
violent in years and called him cooperative and respectful throughout
the legal process, allowing.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
It, well, I'm sorry to interrupt. Oh wow, you've been nice.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
For a couple of years, very well behaved.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
So why he's still committed all that he did? That's ridiculous.
I don't know why someone would get a lesser sentence
because they've been nice for a couple of.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Years, right, Like when you're like when you're going to
court and convicting someone and then they're like, but you
know what your on her? I was nice this week.
I'm going to say that at the reunion. I'm gonna
be like, look, I.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Was nice today off camera. I was very nice.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Despite being referenced in the indictment, Gina never testified during
Combe's trial because prosecutors told the court that they had
lost contact with her and her attorney. Well now that
we know, I mean, she's writing a letter on his
behalf and sending it to the judge that his defense
team is submitting it. She's saying that he's, you know,
this change man, and he's all full of love and
you know, warmth and cuddliness. Now, clearly she didn't have

(05:53):
I don't know. I mean I can I can guess
what happened.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
What happened.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well, I mean, this is just a legend. This is
just my opinion. But I assume that he had some
kind of contact with her. Oh yeah, either she's scared
or we should yeah account, or she's gaining something substantial.
And that's just my opinion. I don't know that for
a fact, but I would assume anyone who doesn't show

(06:20):
up to court to testify and then writes a letter
on his behalfs talking about what a wonderful person he
is has been affected.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
That's the witness that went on the stand and said,
you know, no, your honor, mister Gotti is a wonderful
man and I hope my children are inspired by him,
and he's such a kind father. And I don't know
what you're talking about, because that's what they did on
the stand. Oh yeah, for John Gotti. They would literally
be like, no, yeah, I know, he's a great guy.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, I saw him in the alley of the day
was great.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, because they had visits yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, prior to absolutely yeah, and I would have done
the same thing.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, you're gonna protect your family, You're going to protect
yourself at the end of well, all right, we already
discussed this when we were talking about the Idaho for murders,
where I was saying, please do not sleep in the
bed while I'm getting attacked.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I promise.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
That's it. That's all I want you to say.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
All right, wasn't in our marriage vows?

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Well it is. Now we're gonna We're gonna amend our
marriage vows. And I would I would like to add
an amendment that Shane has to if I am attacked
in the middle of the night, that he has to intervene.
All right, let's move on to This is such an

(07:38):
interesting case. I have found myself obsessed again and just
researching constantly. Shane says, I researched too much, but I
do maybe anyway, let's move on to And it took
me a while to figure this out, but the Gilgo
Beach murders is the same as the Long Island serial Killer.
So if you see anything on Netflix or Hulu about

(07:59):
the gil Go beat, it is the same as long
as the Long Island serial Killer. It just took a
long time, put the two together, put the two together.
And now obviously here we are and we've put the
two together and they're all connected. So let's go through
the Gilgo Beach murders and the Long Island serial killer.

(08:19):
All right, let's do a little background of the case
and just get through some facts.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Gilgo Beach is the name of the location, the beach, right,
It's not the name of the serial killer. No, Okay.
I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
The Gilgo Beach serial killings involve a string of unsolved murders,
primarily targeting women, many of whom were sex workers, whose
remains were discovered along a remote stretch of Ocean Parkway
near Gilgo Beach, Long Island. And this happened. These were
discovered between twenty ten and twenty eleven. Now, the catalyst

(08:51):
of finding these four bodies on Gilgo Beach was a
woman named Shannon Gilbert. And so I feel like this
story really has to start with Shannon and how this
whole investigation and how all of these bodies became known. Okay,
So Shannon Gilbert has an appointment to meet with a

(09:12):
client and Long Island, and when I say client, she's
a sex worker. Yeah, is that what they're called John?
To meet with John. I don't know why, I don't know,
I don't know, but okay, a John. So she has
a driver named Michael Pack, who I assume is just
a friend or something. And obviously, you know you don't
want to go alone. She drives too Long Island to

(09:35):
meet with her client. Michael Pack is her driver, and
he's like sitting in the driveway at this house, this home,
it's in Oak Beach, and she's inside with the client.
Then she for some reason, we don't know. This is
where the mystery unfolds. But something happens inside this house.
We don't know what it is. But she calls nine
to one one and she's freaking out, and it's actually

(09:57):
like a twenty minute phone called a nine to one
one actually released the entire phone call at some point
in time. But when she calls, she says things like,
they are trying to kill me, They're going to kill me,
They're after me, things like that, she says. She says
they As far as the investigation goes, she was just
meeting with the one man in the house. Apparently she

(10:20):
runs out of the house and she runs by her driver,
Michael Pack. He sees her running around, and I think
he tries to get her to get into the car
and she won't get into the car. Then she runs
to a neighbor's house who is an elderly man. She
knocks on the door. He lets her in. He says
that she like jumps in the house, and she's in
the hallway inside his house and he's and she's like,

(10:41):
they're gonna get me all these things, and he's like,
stay here, and I think he turns around for a
second to maybe pick up a phone or something, and
she runs out of the house and then he's looking
out of his window and he sees her and she's
darting behind his car, and she's hiding under He has
a boat, you know, because this is long island, you know,
there's each and he has a boat. She's hiding behind it.

(11:02):
He sees her crouching. He calls the police. Then she
runs to another woman's house, an elderly woman, and she
knocks on the door. The elderly woman won't let her in,
which I understand.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I doesn't know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Right, You don't know if that's a ruse or what
to get some you know, someone to open your door.
But that woman calls the police as well, so you've
got like three phone calls going to the police at
this time. Then Michael Pack, her driver, I guess, he
looks for her for a little bit and then he's
just like he can't find her. So he leaves and
drives back to Manhattan or wherever and leaves her behind.

(11:36):
And then eventually the police show up. They can't find her,
and so this woman wears that's her disappearance. So the
man who she met with the client.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
She stayed in that house, I don't know. You know.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
That is what is so sad about the whole Shannon
Gilbert case is that there are so many opportunities for
her to save herself, and I I don't understand what happened.
It is such a mystery to me. Because one Michael
Pack sees her and tries to get her in the car,
and she doesn't jump in the car. She's inside of
the neighbor's home and he tells her to wait here
as he calls the police, and she runs out the

(12:12):
front door again. And there's just these opportunities for her
to use.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Clearly, she was panicky.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Panicky, panicky, So Shannon Gilbert disappears. So the investigation begins
with a search for missing escort Shannon Gilbert, leading police
to uncover at least eleven sets of human remains, including
the so called Gilgo four, who were all found wrapped
in burlap and exhibited similar patterns of disposals. So what

(12:39):
happens is the police go, they search around, and they
can't find her, right, and then they kind of just
drop it and let it go.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Well, and the fact that she was just running around.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
She was running around.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
It's not like they said she was bloody or heard gunshots.
It was just she was running around and then she.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Left, right. So then her mother's name is Mary, and
her mother is a huge advocate, and she is just
constantly out there saying where is my daughter? Where is
my daughter? She won't let it go, which I give
her credit for that. She kept it alive and she
kept it in the media. So the media is constantly,
you know, talking about where Shannon Gilbert, what happened to her,

(13:15):
what's going on. So the police do investigate again and
do a very thorough search with dogs, and this is
when they find the four bodies on Gilgo beach. So
they're out walking around with dog, you know, dog cadaver dogs, Yes,
thank you, and a dog signals and they find a body,

(13:36):
and they find a body wrapped in burlap, and then
they're searching around and they find another body.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
I think the four bodies find three four, four, and
I think I read that they were half a mile
apart from each other.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Right, So they're all along this stretch of beach. They're
all similar as far as there are, the way of
they're disposed, the way they're wrapped in burlap, the way
they look, and the fact.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Known sex workers are believed to be well, were they
I don't.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Know, Yes, they all were, Okay, I mean once they
id them and they know that. But at the time
they just find force that's and remains that are in
a similar area. And this is all because they were
looking for Shannon Gilbert. Now, once those four bodies are id'd,
not one of those women is Shannon Gilbert. However, they
do discover that they're all sex workers. They're all women,

(14:25):
they're all in their twenties, and they're all petite. So
now it's like, okay, now we have a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Because right because there's too many similarities right now, was
Shannon Gilbert also described as they were like petit and whatnot? Yeah,
so that's so does she fit that same fits.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
The same profile. So Shannon Gilbert was also a sex worker.
She had she had postings on Craigslist that men would
respond to. She was also in her twenties, she was young,
she was petite, so she fit that description. However, she
was not one of those four. But the search for Shannon,
which was really dictated by her mom because I don't

(15:07):
think this police, Suffolk County police would probably not interested
in looking for her at all, if.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Not probably upset.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
We'll stop talking about it. We have to like go
out here now. The names of the go go for
are Melissa bartholemy Amber Costello, Megan Waterman, and Maureene Brainard Barnes.
All of these women, like Shannon, worked as online escorts
and went missing between two thousand and seven and twenty ten.

(15:36):
Let's just go through a timeline, because the timeline is
really important in this case, because there are large gaps
of time where nothing happens at all.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Which is kind of one of the main issues, which.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Is a which is a main issue exactly. And then
I want to talk about why nothing was happening at all,
and then finally in the end, how they ended up
catching this guy, which is all very interesting. So in
May first, twenty ten, Shannon Gilbert disappears. She's traveling to
Oak Beach. Now, one other thing about this client. When

(16:09):
they were investigating and searching for her, they did give
him a polygraph.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Okay, so the john is known.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, they know who he is. They went to his house,
they questioned him. Apparently, they gave him a light detector tech.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
What was his story? What was his version of the events?

Speaker 1 (16:24):
I don't know. I couldn't there. There wasn't a lot
of detail about that, at least in what I've read
and what I saw. It was more of like he
doesn't know what happened, and she just kind of like
freaked out. He was trying to get her out of
the house. He actually went to Michael Pack, the driver,
and said, can you get this girl out of my house?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Really?

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:40):
So I so Michael Pack.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Says, well, that's I believe. That's what Michael Pack says.
And the guy they questioned, it was basically like he
was saying, get her she won't leave, get her out
of my house.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
But earlier you described it as she ran out. She did, so,
did Michael Pa see her run out of the house.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
I don't know those The whole situation that night is
very convoluted and blurry for me. I don't know if
there's a clear picture of what actually happened with Shannon Gilbert.
It was just you've got these players. You've got Michael
Pack who drove her. You've got Shannon Gilbert who went
to Oak Beach for a client, and then you've got
the client. You've got the client saying that she freaked

(17:21):
out in the house and that she was acting weird
and that he just wanted her to leave. And you've
got Michael Pack saying she's running around everywhere. I couldn't
catch her. I couldn't find her, so I just left.
And then you've got a twenty minute nine to one
one call of her saying they're going to kill me.
So I don't know. It's I mean, it's a mystery.
I don't know what happened in that. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
What if Michael Pack and mister John were in cahoots
together and they are that they yeah, you know, not
that we have any facts to support that.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
We don't but I don't know, just throwing that out there. Yeah, now,
this is my first of twenty ten. May through November
of twenty ten, little progress is made in finding Shannon,
despite some searching by police and private investigators which were
hired by her own family. Gilbert remains missing. Four months now,
December eleventh, twenty ten, the first body is found. That's

(18:17):
while searching for Gilbert's body along Ocean Parkway, a Suffolk
County Police officer and his cadaver dog discover human remains
near Gilgo Beach and then the remains. The first remains
are later identified as Melissa Bartholemy. Melissa Bartholomey went missing
on July tenth, two thousand and nine. She was a
twenty four year old sex worker and was last seen

(18:38):
at her apartment in the Bronx in New York City.
She told her friend she was going to see a
man and that she will be back in the morning.
Cell Phone data from her phone puts her last known
location somewhere on Long Island. Days later, a man begins
using her cell phone to make taunting phone calls to

(18:59):
her relatives. That was another thing that this serial killer
did was. There were a couple instances where he would
use the girl's cell phone after the fact to call
their friends and family.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Too, to say get more recruitment or no, to.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Say like to taunt them to he's sadistic. I mean
he would say things like, do you know where your
sister is? And this is what I did to her?
And I saw your friend in a whorehouse and you
know Long Island.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
So after they discover Melissa, who was the first person,
they discover three more bodies in Gilgo Beach. It's Marine
Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, and Amberlin Castello. Their remains were
located within a short distance of each other in the
brush just off the highway and had all been wrapped
in burlap sacks. Then there were other remains found in
a different part of Lowe Island, and they did not

(20:01):
initially think that.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
They would not make a connection.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Initially, not initially because they were not wrapped in burlap.
It was different. They were dismembered. They found dismembered parts,
So it was like, you know, normally, I'm just speaking
from a serial killer perspective. I'm trying to put all
your experience, my experience as a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
They do the same things, right, I would think so.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
So when you find four bodies that are wrapped in burlap.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Saying significantly different ones kind of neatly wrapped or using
on a word neatly loosely and the other one's clearly gruesome.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Right, so they were thinking these are two different I
would have thought so things. Marine Brainerd Barnes, who was
one of the Go Go four, was last heard from
by a friend on July ninth, two thousand and seven.
She was twenty five and had traveled to New York
City from her home in Norwich, Connecticut for sex work.
She said she was leaving her hotel to meet a client.

(20:54):
Investigators later say cell phone records showed her phone was
last used on Long Island.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
So it's kind of wishing we're going backwards. They're finding
these They were looking for, uh, Shannon.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
They're looking for Shannon.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Shannon initially right in twenty ten, right because she goes
missing in twenty ten. But then as a result they
found four bodies that went back further as far as
they're missing dates exactly. And then the Long Island bodies
they find that were dismembered are even further back, even.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Further back into the nineties. Right wow. So Maureene was
a single mother of two. Her sister named MISSI, received
a call from Marine the night of July ninth from
Penn Station in Midtown, Manhattan. In an interview in twenty twenty,
the sister told forty eight Hours Marine said she was
going to take the train at midnight, and then her
sister never saw or heard from Marine again. Another victim

(21:46):
is named Megan Waterman. Megan Waterman was twenty two and
had traveled to Long Island from Maine for sex work.
She was last seen at a motel in Hoppage, New York,
on June sixth, twenty ten. Lilliana Waterman was just three
years old when her mother disappeared, and her first televised
interview in twenty twenty, the daughter told forty eight Hours
that if she could talk to her mom, she would

(22:08):
tell her how much she loves her. Now. Amber Costello
ends up being the reason that they catch the serial killer,
so she just it's her. Her story is just more
in depth because twenty seven year old Amberline Castello was
last seen leaving her home in Wes, Babylon to meet
with a client on September second of twenty ten. The

(22:29):
client asked her to leave her phone in Purson home
and return for a very hefty fee.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Supposedly, that's a flag if I ever saw one.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Supposedly the fee, this is what I've learned, was fifteen
hundred dollars, but it was six times her hourly rate.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
So I don't know why, Like, under what scenario would
would she think that that's a like a like he's kinky,
he doesn't want cell phones around, Like, I don't know,
I just i'd be like money up front, dude. Yeah,
there's the probably didn't even have the fifteen.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
There's so many times when you read these stories and
these decisions that these women made that you're just so
sad because.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
There's staring dire straits trying to survive just you know,
ye stay alive with roof of.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
What's interesting about Amberlyn Costello. Her story is that she
had met with this same client a couple weeks prior
and he had come to her house. Now, Amberlind Costello
lives with roommates and one of them his name is
Dave Shaller, and the other one is name Bear Brodski,

(23:45):
two males. She meets with the same client, the same
one who offered her to hefty fee. She had met
with him weeks prior to that, and he had come
to the house and Dave and Bear were not there.
She was home alone. Apparently the arrangement was she was
only supposed to dance for this client. She was not
supposed to have sex with him that evening. However, he

(24:07):
wanted to have sex with her, and I guess he
was getting handsy with her instead of just doing like
a lap dance or whatever. And she locked herself in
the bathroom and she calls her roommate. They come home
and they encounter this guy inside the house and they say,
he's like a six foot four ogre looking guy. He's huge,
he's tall, he's got these seventy style glasses on. He's

(24:30):
got bushy hair, he's got beady eyes. They have a
kind of an altercation with them, or they're like get
out of the house and they're like pushing him out.
Glasses on you no, like seventy style glasses, Like he
had a very distinct look. Yeah like that. Okay, yeah,
it's the serial killer glasses. You get him at the
serial killer shower, right right, so they see him, they

(24:52):
have an altercation with him, and these two roommates of
hers are physically pushing him out and they say that
like he was freaky. They got bad vibes from him.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I saw that part. So you were watching this in bed,
because that's what you do at night, you watch She
watched True Crime in bed. Then she falls asleep to
it and leaves it on all night long, and then
she wonders why she has anxiety throughout the day. Anyway,
I did, and I remember they were saying how he
almost covered the whole like filled the whole door frame. Yeah,

(25:27):
and they said, like I guess they were trying to
make contact with them or tell them to leave or
whatever they were doing. But they said he would never
make eye contact with them, like he was looking through
them or past them, and never took his eyes off
of her right like he was he had a target.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
They get him out of the house and he gets
into an Avalanche, which, by the way, is a very
It's what were you saying earlier, if you're going to
be a serial killer, what kind of car should you drive?
Not an avalanche?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
No, you should drive like a like a gray, bluish
medium size suv.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Because it's just because then it's like generic.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
And what was he driving?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (26:04):
What color was it? Well, it was like a black
or dark or gray? What kind of car was it?
I don't know. It's like a minivan suv Like you can't.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
So you're saying that's the most generic.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, no, one's gonna be like it was a charcoal
gray raft four right, yeah, no one's.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well, this guy gets into an avalanche and it's they
they called a first generation avalanche. But is there a
second generation avalanche?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
I feel like they ended it with the first generation avalanche.
Then after this occurs, the same guy, the same client
that they had kicked out that night, reaches back out
to Amber Cassello again, and this is when he pays
her a hefty fee to come and meet him.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Wait wait, this same John reaches out to her and
wants a second a follow up like yes, session, yes,
but this time without oh yeah, and and removed the
locks from the bathroom door, please for next to fifteen dollars.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
And make sure your roommates aren't home.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
No kidding.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
So that's when she.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Leaves, and I'm not faulting her, but she agreed to this.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, so the roommate, Dave knows that she meets this client.
He knows that he drives an avalanche. That's the last
time she's ever seen or heard from.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Again, did she leave herself at home?

Speaker 1 (27:21):
She did? Yeah. So now Dave interviews with the police
and he tells the police this is when she disappears
in twenty ten. Right, he tells the police exactly what happened.
The guy was creep me out. He's six foot four,
he drives an avalanche. It's dark green like. He gives

(27:41):
specific details as to the last person that he saw
her with.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
However, nothing happens for like twelve years or something. Anyway,
let's go on through this timeline. So March to April
of twenty eleven, there's further remains that are found. So
authorities widen their search and find additional remains, including a toddler,
an Asian male, and skulls and limbs linked to partial

(28:07):
remains found years earlier. The scope of the case grows, now,
involving multiple victims with varying backgrounds.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Male and female. Clothing too or something I thought I saw.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, and that is true, and that's what makes me
because when you say, okay, well, one's a male that
doesn't make sense, that doesn't fit the profile. But allegedly
or apparently according to what I've read and what they've revealed,
was that he was dressed in women's clothing. The toddler, though,
doesn't make sense other than all I could think was
maybe she brought her kid with her for some reason. Yeah,

(28:42):
because her profile fits as far as like age and
you know, heighten, like all those there. But her daughter
ended up being a.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Victims as well, collateral damage.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Right, So there's a Jane Doe number five, who later
is identified as Jessica Taylor. First, partial skeletal remains of
Jessica Taylor were discovered in a wooded area of Manorville,
New York, back on July twenty sixth, two thousand and three.
Then on March twenty ninth of twenty eleven, more of
Taylor's remains were discovered along Ocean Parkway. She was twenty

(29:14):
when she vanished and had been an escort working in
New York City. She was found dismembered, with identifying tattoos
mutilated in an apparent attempt to obscure her identity. So
the question is are these are these body parts that
are found later in a different area. It's called Manorville,
but it's still on Long Island. You know, initially they

(29:34):
thought it was two different serial killers. However, the argument
can be made, and I think this was said that
serial killers.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Evolve like like they get bored.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
They changed, they you know, they hone in their.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Skills or they they venture out into new Yeah, they
ways of killing.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Right, So there you go, Jane do.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, who because a lot of time has passed.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Right, Yeah, So Jane Doe number six, who has later
identified as Valerie Mac. First, the partial skeletal remains a
Valerie Mac are found who had been working as an
escort in Philadelphia, and her remains were found in a
wooded area in Manorville, New York. This is in September
of two thousand. The twenty four year old was last
seen by her family in the spring or summer of
the year two thousand in Port Republic, New Jersey. Then,

(30:26):
on April fourth, twenty eleven, additional remains of Valerie Mac
were found along Ocean Parkway. Okay, so these bodies that
were actually found after the GILG four, they were actually
murdered before they just there.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
They were just discussed.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
The remounks who were discovered after, However, they were murdered first.
So the question is, because now we know that it
was all the same person in the beginning, when he
was murdering people, he was dismembering them. Then when you
find the Gilgo four who were murdered later, he's wrapping
them in burlap. So that's the evolution. And you were

(31:03):
saying that maybe it was just too it was too
much work.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I just remember, I don't think of this. Yeah,
maybe it was gruesome. Maybe you really I don't know.
I don't know. Maybe who knows? Who knows what goes
on in these people's heads, because I don't know, why
would you even wrap them in burlap? Like, why would
you if you have no you know, regard for human life,
You're just going to kill these people, Why would you
even bother wrapping them up?

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, I don't know. That's a question for us here.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
What is there? Obviously they had some reason, what is
their thinking?

Speaker 1 (31:34):
I don't I don't know. And you know what else
I don't know. And I don't know if this was
ever figured out because I didn't see it or read
it or hear it anywhere, but I don't know where
the actual killings took place because he discards their body
throughout Long Island, but where is he actually killing them?

Speaker 2 (31:54):
We're trying to make sense out of psychos.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
That's very true, kind of tough. So then there was
another victim that was killed earlier than the go go
for but found later than the go go for. Was
first they called her Peaches because she had an identifying

(32:18):
tattoo of peaches on her. She was later identified as
Tanya Jackson. She was an army veteran. The thing is,
she doesn't fit the sex worker scenario. But this was
also in nineteen ninety seven, so again.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
I met the male didn't either, So maybe this guy
just calls him up and whatever. You know, he has
a certain like but if they send someone else or
ends up being a little bit, he's not going to
be like, never mind, I'm not going to kill you
because you're not fatigued.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, the way it looks to me as we go
through these these earlier murders that happened where these body
parts were dismembered and they were found in a different
area of Long Island, seems to me that's when maybe
he didn't know exactly what he was doing. He didn't
have like, he.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Wasn't systematic, he didn't have a plan.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, because it's later when the gil go for are
discovered that it's systematic. It's like very similar. He has it,
he has it down. He like contacts a sex worker
from an anonymous email. He meets them. They all look
the same, they're all young, they're all petite. He wraps
them in burlap. It's like in the beginning, maybe maybe chaotic.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You know, you get older, and he started to get lazy.
He's lazy, so he's like, I'm this just memory thing.
It's really tolling.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
One, it might be sex workers because it's easy to
contact them and they come to me absolutely. And Two,
a lot of these women that.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Are already off the grid right that.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Are sex workers are probably sex workers because they might
have had a falling out with family and.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Like they're on the streets for lack of better ways.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, and then they're petite, so it's easy for me
to over you know, to overtake them very easily. And
you know, anyway, and was.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
A bag, I got potato sack.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
That's what burlap is.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, Okay, so that maybe to fit in the burlap.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Maybe all right. Baby Doe is another body that's found.
That's the toddler that was found and it's later identified
as Tanya Jackson's daughter. Near so near the remains of
Valerie Mac, investigators also find the remains of a two
year old girl later identified through DNA as Tatiana Dykes,
who is Tanya Jackson's daughter. She was found wrapped in

(34:32):
a blanket and showed no signs so trauma.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
She probably brought her child, she needed to. She was
watching over them her, yeah, and then unfortunately the child
mad man just killed her too.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
John Doe who was still unidentified up to right now
in present time. His body was found on April fourth,
twenty eleven along Ocean Parkway. He is believed to be
an Asian male, possibly in his late teens or early twenties,
and he was found wearing women's clothes and the cause
of death was blunt force trauma. And then there is
another unidentified body, Jane Doe, number seven. Her skull was

(35:10):
found on April eleventh, twenty eleven, off of Ocean Parkway.
It matched a pair of legs which were found in
April of nineteen ninety six on Fire Island, which is
east of Gilgo Beach, Okay.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
So it's fair to say that in simple terms, they
find the four bodies as a result of Shannon's mother
pressing for.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Looking for Shannon.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
For her search, they find four bodies that are all similar.
Then they search even further and sometime later they find
older murdered bodies that were completely in a different fashion.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Murdered and dismembered and spread out, and.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
So they didn't make the connection between the two.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Well, originally the police chief comes out and does like
a press conference and says, we don't think that they're
really so, but they end up figuring out later that
they are. So finally we get to the point where
we have found they find Shannon Gilbert. Finally, Oh okay, good,
So after good, she's dead, well, she's she is dead.

(36:16):
So in December thirteenth of twenty eleven, Shannon Gilbert's body
is finally found.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Not long after, after a year and a half.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Of searching, police locate Shannon Gilbert's remains in a marsh
about a half mile from where she was last seen
in Oak Beach. Her body is found near her belongings,
which had been discovered earlier. Police were reluctant to search
the marsh for a long time, claiming that it was
a difficult task. Ultimately, Suffolk County Police declared Gilbert's death accidental,

(36:44):
suggesting that she died from drowning or exposure after a
mental health episode.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
So in a marsh. Yeah, it was out there in
a marsh, like just chilling and then they drown.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Well, they they claim that her death was accidental and
not part of this you know, serial killer, because she
was found in the marsh. And they refuse to search
the marsh in the beginning because they said it was
too marshy, and they the marshy, and they didn't want
to take you know, people and equipment and things out there. Well,
the mother good for her being relentless. They actually did

(37:21):
finally search this marsh, which was right in the area
where she disappeared, right it's right next to the house
where she was. They find her and she has no
pants on, so they find her genes, they find I
think a purse or a wallet, and then they find
the body. But then they declare it as an accidental death,
like she just got hypothermia or something. And then they

(37:42):
also say something.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
It's just like, oh, like she pants off and it
was an accidental death.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, and that you know, they said, you know, sometimes
when you have a hypothermia, you get hot, you feel
like you're hot, So she probably took her pants off
because she was hot.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
And I'm like, yeah, someone's in a marsh to begin with.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
This girl's not out running around scared for her life,
like knocking on doors and screaming, and then just and
takes her pants off in a marsh like, clearly to me,
it looks like foul play. The medical examiner said that
she died. I don't know. I think they might have
even said inconclusive, but they did not say that there
was foul play or a homicide. So Shannon Gilbert's mom,

(38:25):
Mary Gilbert, has her own independent counsel and then they
have their own medical exam examine the body, so an
independent autopsy this is done. Later suggested that possible homicidal
strangulation had occurred, further fueling speculation that she was a
victim of the same killer. Here's the thing, so she's
in the house with the John who is not the

(38:47):
serial killer that killed all of these other women, or
allegedly he's going on trial soon but allegedly killed all
these other people. It is not the same person and
he has not been known to work in kahoots anyone else.
So it is such a mystery as to what happened
in that house that night that she freaks out, calls

(39:07):
nine to one one, says they're trying to kill me.
Runs around in the same area where all these other
women have been murdered who are sex workers. She's a
sex worker and she fits the profile. They find her
dead in a marsh and then they claim it was
an accidental death.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
It's just this a sloppy police work apparently.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
So. Mary Gilbert, the mother of Shannon Gilbert, who was
pressing the entire time for the police to find her daughter,
was murdered in twenty sixteen by her other daughter who
stabbed her like two hundred and fifty times. Wow. Yes,
And they did not bring that up in the documentary.
They I think there was some little blurb that like,
Mary had died before they had found the serial killer,

(39:46):
so she never knew. So I looked it up. I
was like, how did this woman die? Because I feel
like they just kind of they made Mary in this documentary.
I want to made.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Did they make it seem like she just passed.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yes, so in this documentary I watch, that's that's significant. Yeah,
And I was thinking to myself, what is the reason
that they didn't bring that up in this documentary because
Mary was heavily a part of this documentary and there
was a whole movie, like a like a docu saries
made about her and Shannon, And all I could think
was maybe they didn't want to highlight.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
They didn't want to take away from the what they investigator,
or the show was originally covering the investigation of these
murdered bodies and then to kind of have all these
side murders going on, or.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
They didn't want to take away like from the family
because Mary presented like that she was just like really
you know, they were all really concerned about the daughter
and they were looking for her and they were like
this unit. And then to find out that she was
murdered by her other daughter, like, maybe that just took
away from this.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
So where's this Sarah Gilbert?

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Now she's in prison. She got like she got second
degree murder and fourth degree something. Her defense claimed she
had schizophrenia, So I think there was some lesser charge
because she had mental health issue or something. But anyway,
that was not in the documentary, and I don't so
anyway I thought that was I thought that was something

(41:08):
that well, it.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Kind of paints a little bit more of a picture
of the family, know what's going on and the troubles
they're having.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
The question is why did it take until twenty twenty
two to figure out who the Long Island killer was?

Speaker 2 (41:21):
So we got from basically twenty ten, well they were.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Found twenty ten, twenty eleven, yeah, and then it goes
all the way to twenty twenty seven years. So there's
eleven years where apparently maybe there's some investigation going on,
but no one.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Well there couldn't have been much investigation going on because
ten years nothing really happens, right.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So here's what people think, and this was in the documentary,
and this makes a lot of sense that there was
so much corruption within the Suffolk County Police Department. That
is the reason why that these murders were not investigated.
So the chief of Police at the time was James Burke,
and he was actively blocking the FBI from assisting in

(42:03):
the Gilgo Beach case. So when the bodies of the
Gilgo four and other victims were discovered. There was clear
potential for a multi jurisdictional serial killer investigation. And what
that means is, this is when you collaborate. Right, you
have a serial killer on Long Island, So what do
you do. You need to collaborate. You bring in the FBI,
you bring in the state police, you bring in private investigators,

(42:25):
you work together. But James Burke, who was the chief
of police at the time, was actively shutting everyone out. Right,
He's like, we don't need the FBI, we don't need
the state police.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
We don't need to stop taking finger prints, we don't.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Need anything else, we don't need any help. So the
FBI offered assistance early on in this case, including a
behavioral analysis, advance forensics, a missing persons report, which is
all standard and very complex serial killer cases. However, Burke
flatly rejected any federal involvement. There was also, you know,

(43:03):
they also talk about how there was just a blanket
you know, memo that went around to the entire Suffolk
County Police Department that basically forbid anyone to speak about
the case with the FBI, with other departments.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
And what's the basis for that? Doesn't anyone question that.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
I think there was so much corruption and the DA
was corrupt as well. So I think you've got these
higher ups in the chain of command. You got the
top dogs at the very top, and they're making all
the calls and no one's questioning it because they don't want.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
To be on their radar investigating and das prosecuting.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Right. According to multiple law enforcement sources and later investigations,
Burke personally ensured that the FBI was pushed out of
the case when he became chief in twenty twelve. He
reportedly feared that the FBI agents would uncover his own
misconduct and that they would gain access to sensitive files.
This is where it all starts to come as get

(44:01):
to the right stuff. Christopher Lobe broke into Burke's car
in twenty twelve and stole a Duffel bag. That can
he's stills.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Unrelated crime, right, just a guy's opportunity, guy a Duffel bag.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
And right, he's a drug addict, so he's going around.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
You know, is there anyone sober in Long Island?

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yes, so Christopher Lobe is a drug addict from Long Island.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, she has what years was she there?

Speaker 1 (44:27):
I don't know, but anyway, back to Christopher Low. He
is a drug addict and he is looking for he's
breaking into cars because he's you know, looking for stuff
to sell to get money for drugs. A better place
to look than he breaks into the Suffolk County Police
chiefs vehicle. It's an suv.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
He's an avalanche.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
She's not a green avalanche. No, it's not. He steals
a Duffel bag. He takes it home. He's like going
through it and it has sex toys and porn. But
then it has like you know, doesn't have an idea
or anything. Yeah, it has something that I identifies that
like he's the.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Chief of Badge.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
It's not as badge, but he does have there's like
like business cards in it that are like chief of police.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
You know.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
So when the bag is recovered, because obviously this guy's
like my car got broken into, and you know, the
police are investigating to find the guy, they bring him
in the bag gets recovered, Burke has him in the
you know what is that the witness room or whatever,
you know, interrogation room, the interrogation room, and he beats
the crap out of him. He busts him up, you know,
punches him in the face. I apparently stomps on him.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
You know, It's funny, is how he's like, murders that
that duffel bag.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yes, we're gonna find it.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Yeah, spare no expense. Get the FBI and fault get
that fast.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
So Burke assaulted Christopher Christopher Lobe during questioning and then
orchestrated a cover up, instructing officers to lie to the
FBI and alter official reports. So the FBI actually did
come in and investigate this, and they they said they
got it was like called a blue wall. I guess
that's when police all kind of banned together and refused

(46:10):
to speak. So that's what they were up against. They
couldn't get anyone.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
To come callall.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
They called it like a blue wall. Like a blue wall,
like that was what they were up against. They're trying to,
you know, they're innate table like what happened, you know,
and they just they're a blue wall, like no one
was speaking. So basically what happened with Burke making all
these decisions, he blocked the FBI. He delayed key forensic progress,
particularly in the DNA analysis data tracking from the cell phones.

(46:38):
You know, they're working on putting all this stuff together
and geographic profiling, but federal resources that could have identified
pattern behavior, a suspect profile, or putting together evidence were
not allowed. So he basically was just like, no one
is allowed to have anything to do with this case.
We don't want we don't want cell phone data, we

(46:59):
don't want forensics, we don't want a profile, like, we
don't need any of this. I guess from my perspective
watching it, he is involved with sex workers. There was
a woman that came forward that said that he had
hired her for sex, for oral sex or something in
the car, And I think, I don't think that James

(47:20):
Burke is involved in the actual serial killer part of
this story.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Sex worker and he's.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Involved in the sex worker industry. So this went on
from twenty eleven until twenty twenty two. What is sad
about this corruption and how deep it goes. The DA
was involved in it too. I mean, Burke ends up
being prosecuted and he goes to jail. The DA ends
up being prosecuted because he's involved in all of this corruption.

(47:48):
He goes to jail. But there is a twelve year
time period where they could have been investigating the serial killer,
and they don't. Oh yeah, because he's done everything possible
to block anyone from having anything to do with this
case just because they have a long history of corruption.
I don't want to go into it. But Burke and
the DA have a history that goes back to when

(48:08):
Burke was like sixteen years old and has to do
with another case and another murder. And that's when you
go in.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
He's got to fire everyone and start all over.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Right. So, as we were saying, James Burke was the
police chief, the DA was Thomas Spoda. They worked closely together.
Spoda was a longtime political ally and mentor to Burke.
They have a long history together. He supported Burke's rise
to police chief. By the way, his rise to police
chief was like ridiculously fast. Spoda was the DA. I
think he helped him rise up to police chief. Spoda

(48:39):
aided in Burke's twenty twelve cover up and worked to
intimidate witnesses, suppress evidence, encourage officers to lie to federal investigators,
and to also coordinate the cover up. James Burke and
Thomas Spodo were later arrested. So James Burke was indicted
in twenty fifteen and pleaded guilty to civil rights violations
and conspiracy to obstruct justice. On November two, twenty sixteen,

(49:03):
he was sentenced to forty six months in prison and
three years of supervised release. Now Thomas Spoda, who was
the DA, was indicted in twenty seventeen on federal charges
including obstruction of justice, conspiracy to tamper with witnesses accessories
after the fact, to civil rights violations, and on August tenth,
twenty twenty one, Spoda was sentenced to five years in

(49:24):
federal prison and fined one hundred thousand dollars. James Burke
was arrested again in twenty twenty three at a park
in Farmingville, Long Island, as part of a prostitution sting
conducted by Suffolk County park rangers. I think he tried
to get a park ranger to I don't know, perform
oral sex or something, and he then when the officer

(49:46):
called police or whatever, he was like. He kept reportedly
trying to use his status by saying, don't you know
who I am? And he claimed that the arrests would
be public humiliation for him, but they he was arrested anyway.
He was charged with public lewdness and decent exposure and
initially also criminal solicitation and offering a sex act. So

(50:06):
basically what this comes down to is there's eleven year
gap where no one's doing anything on a serial murder
case in Long Island because all that's going on in
this Suffolk County Police Department is corruption. And clearly, again
I don't think James Burke has anything to do with
the murders, and neither does the DA. Murders these murders

(50:27):
and neither does the DA. It has to do with
his behavior.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Oh, it was a conflict of interest.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
It was a conflict of ventures.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
It's like, I don't want to destroy the sex worker industry.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Doesn't need the FBI investigating sex workers when he is
involved with the sex workers, So he does everything possible
for eleven years to keep the FBI and any other
federal agency out of Suffolk County. He doesn't investigate it,
nothing happens for all these years. The thing that is
sad is not only is he corrupt and he's just
a horrible person, and so is the DA. But do

(51:01):
we know do you think that the serial killer during
these eleven years did not have any other victims?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Right? And what other murders and mishaps, and you know,
issues are happening in the sex work with all these
sex workers, right and you know what else cracking down
on it.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
I thought this was really interesting. This case could have
been solved sooner because they interview another sex worker that
ended up having a dinner date with Rex Huerman, who
ends up being the alleged serial killer that we're going
to talk about in a little bit how they found him.
But she has dinner with him and he's so creepy,
creeps her out so much that she texts a friend

(51:37):
and says, meet me in the parking lot. I'm leaving
this dinner date because he was obsessed with talking about
the gil Go murders. And she said to her friend,
I think I just had dinner with the gil Go
you know, serial killer. Now. The problem was when they
asked her in the interview, if you thought that that
was him, and you were creeped out by this guy,
why did you not go to the police, And she's like,
how can I go to the police. I'm a sex worker, right, right, right.

(52:01):
But here's the thing that was interesting to me. When
they posed the question, they said, well, if the police
would have reached out to sex workers like some type
of invitation and said, we're not going to prosecute any
of you, we just want to get information about this
serial killer. Could you come forward and there'll be no repercussions.

(52:22):
Would you have done that? And she said absolutely. The
reason I never said anything was because I'm on probation.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Right right, I get that. I get that.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
So to me, I was like, what a simple solution
that if the police department wasn't so corrupt and they
just issued something that said, look, there is a serial killer,
he is targeting sex workers. We can find him if
these sex workers will come forward and tell us what
they know without any repercussions of being arrested or shamed
or humiliated or identified. You right, just come forward. This

(52:58):
could have been solved.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
You're ago, who knows what other crimes and what other
crap this police officer allowed the police department to overlook
and ignore and let happen and continue. And this guy's
you know, he's getting taxpayer money and then he's using
it on sex workers and yeah, I mean, and you
know he's not being respectful towards them.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
The corruption is unreal in this police department, all right, Anyway,
let's get to the final piece of this puzzle. How
do we finally how do they finally find Rex Huerman
who is allegedly the serial killer they how do they

(53:44):
get to this point?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
He found God going forward and confess.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
To all this crimes, right, but that is not what happened.
So Rex Huerman is a fifty nine year old husband
and father of two who was arrested on July thirteenth
of twenty twenty three. This is recent, like this serial killer.
This is what is so interesting about this case is
it's I mean, this guy's been killing since then.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Yeah, Coberg was before he got arrested.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Right, and he gets arrested in twenty twenty three. So
a little background on him. Huerman was an architect who
founded the New York City firm RH Consultants and Associates.
He spent his time working in the city while living
in his childhood home in New Jersey with his wife.
This house that he grew up in in Long Island
is the house that he has now like with his

(54:28):
wife Asa, she's from Iceland. And then he's got two
weird kids and this house on Long Island in massa
Pequoke Park area is dilapidated. The guy's an architect, so
you would think he would have some type of pride
and like the abode that he lives in. But this
house is completely dilapidated. It has not been Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
He's also married and he's not faithful to her. I
mean you're acting like, you know, he's an upstand, like
he's not gonna I know, but.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I say, I'm yeah, but I'm saying that get rid
of the ethics and the morals and the value. It's
like he's a psychopath, Like that's a given. I'm just saying,
the dudes an architect, at least have some pride in
your home. I mean, his house hasn't been updated or
fixed or in sixty years. It's like the i sore
of the community. It's just this ugly, dilapidated, falling down, dark, dirty,

(55:20):
ugly house.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Where the neighbors' homes like nice.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yes, all the neighbors homes are nice and their yards
are nice. And then there's just him.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
So he looks like a serial killer.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yes, and people, even like the neighbors would even you know,
thought he was creepy and weird. I mean he lives
I mean he takes his identity as a serial killer
very I mean all the way to his house, all right.
So anyway, how does Rex Yureman finally get caught. What
happens is a new commissioner comes into the Suffolk County

(55:49):
and it's been twelve years since the gil Go four
were found. The new commissioner's name is Rodney Harrison, and
he creates a task force to find the serial killer. First,
the thing that they do, which is brilliant, No one
else did this because they were too busy, you know,
James Burke and the DA are too busy being corrupt.
They digitize all of the documents and evidence that has

(56:09):
to do with this case so it can be easily searchable,
and they had never.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Done that right around among various investigators.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Right, So they have a task force. They start collaborating,
right because they know in order to find the serial killer,
they actually do need to work with the FBI, and
they do need to work with investigators, and they do
need to work with state police. So they digitize all
the documents, they start searching through it because now it's
easily searchable. And what do they come across as they're
searching through this? They come across the interview that had

(56:38):
to do with Amber Costello and her roommate Dave back
in what was it when she disappeared in two thousand
and ten or eleven, whatever it was, where he says,
the last person I saw her with with this was
this big, tall dude with be the eyes that was
six foot four, that had the you know, serial killer
glasses on, that drove the avalanche and it was dark green.

(57:00):
So what do they do search for someone that fits
that physical description that drives an avalanche? And where do
they come up with Rex Hereerman's name?

Speaker 2 (57:12):
There you go? You know how long it took them,
Well a matter of weeks.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Six weeks, Yeah, six weeks to come up with Rex
Hereman's name. Once they came up with Rex's name, what
do they do? They start? You know, the DA is
issuing like subpoenas everywhere, right, they're they're but this is
all secret. He doesn't know that they're investigating them, and
nobody knows that they have his name. This is all secret,
This is all under wraps. But they're looking at his
emails and he still, you know, has all these anonymous

(57:40):
emails where he's reaching out to sex workers. They get
they know he has burner phones. He has like seven
different burner phones. So what they do is they're they're
creating a chart on a map where his burner phones
are active the same time his regular cell phone is active.
So we know he has burner phones, and we know
that's how he contacts the workers using a burner. Then

(58:00):
they create you know, what they call a box where
these burner phones are only in this Massapequa area, and
then the burner phones are always only in this midtown area.
So now they know that it's this person, this killer
is going back and forth between Massapequa and midtown Manhattan.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
And then right and then lo and behold.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Rex Huerman works in midtown Manhattan and also lives in Massapequa.
So like everything's just lining up. Once they have this
guy's name, it's like all the boxes are checking right.
The burner phones, his phone. You know, when the murders
took place, his family was on vacation. They can do
a timeline and figure out that, like he his family
isn't involved in any of these murders because he's murdering

(58:42):
when they're gone, and they can figure all of that out.
So everything's lining up anyway, then they're like, okay, we
want to we got to get this guy, right, but
we have to make sure we have all the evidence
against him. And they want to get him quickly because
they got to get this guy off the street. So
they need DNA evidence. So what do they say. You

(59:03):
can get his DNA as long as it's something that
he discards, right, because there's no expectation of privacy. If
you take a drink and you discard something, you throw
it away, you're allowed to search it. That was the
same thing they did with Coburger. They followed him and
tailed him until they threw the trash out, and then
they took his trash and they tested the DNA. So

(59:26):
they tail rex he or men. He's walking around, he's
eating pizza. He throws away a box of pizza. They
grabbed the pizza, They take the crust. It has DNA
on it. They run the DNA and it comes back
that the DNA matches the hairs that they found on
the bodies. So now they've got it all and then
they send a force and to arrest him and they

(59:48):
that's how they find him. They found him in six weeks.
I think the first meeting of that task force. That
new task force in twenty twenty two was February first,
and by March fourteenth they had had his name and
and all the evidence and DNA and everything. So and
they also found which is disturbing, but they also found that,

(01:00:08):
you know, he did a lot of Google searches that
had to do with very sadistic things and keeping track
of the case.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
And now he's in he's locked up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
He is locked up. He does not have a trial
date at this time. He was initially charged with the
murders of three of the Gilg fours. So he was
initially charged with the murder of Melissa, Megan and Amber. However,
over the following year prosecutors expanded that indictment and in
January of twenty twenty four, he was charged also in

(01:00:38):
the death of Marine Brainerd Barnes. In June of twenty
twenty four, he was indicted concerning the murders of Jessica
Taylor and Sandra Costilla, which was a very early murder
back in the nineties. And then in December of twenty
twenty four he was charged in connection with the death
of Valerie Mack. So at this point in time, I
believe that he is charged with seven murders. He maintains

(01:01:02):
his innocence and he's entered a not guilty plea. So
that's where we're at. We're waiting for a trial date
on him. The prosecution has DNA evidence. Notably we talked
about a hair found on the hair was found on
Megan Waterman. They also searched his home and I'm sure
and they also dug up his backyard because I'm sure
they're looking for more bodies, right, And they're searching his home,
probably looking for DNA evidence of these women to see

(01:01:25):
if he killed anyone inside of the house.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Imagine if that someone comes knocking the door and they're like,
your husband's a murder. We're here to arrest him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
No, and they I mean they did, you would like yeah,
And they tell me I need to leave because they
have to search the house, and then they're going to
dig up the backyard because they're looking for bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I mean, like, who did I who is this man?

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Well? That's I mean, I knew he.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Was weird, but this is a whole different level.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
I mean, as far as his wife is concerned, I
think her first statement was something like, it can't be
my husband there's no way he could have done things
like this like she would.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
But I'm asking you me, I, what would you do?

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Well, I would divorce you. I mean there's that let's
just go there. I would leave you a few No,
I'm sorry. I feel like there's a serial killer clause
that just kind of, you know, nullifies that. But so
when investigators they took like three hundred firearms from his house.
So yeah, so he did not update his house at all,
no new carpet, no remodeling. It's a completely dilapidated house.

(01:02:25):
But he had over three hundred firearms in the basement.
They dug up the backyard, but they didn't find any
bodies or anything. And I'm not sure if they found
any kind of DNA evidence that linked him to any
of these women. I don't think. I don't think he
was murdering the women in his house. When they searched
his home, they also recovered a deleted Microsoft word file
from a hard drive that was seized from his home.

(01:02:47):
The document was a carefully structured blueprint of serial murder planning,
with sections labeled problems, supplies, and dump sites and targets.
It detailed specific steps and lessons for future offenses including
remove head in hands, hit harder, use heavier rope next time.

(01:03:07):
You know, this is what we talked about earlier, where
when the older bodies that were found were different, they
were killed differently, and they were dismembered than the newer bodies.
And then that makes sense that he was actually keeping
track of better ways to murder people. He was, I mean,
he was making a list, like his serial killer to

(01:03:29):
do lists. So the defense says that they have challenged
the admissibility of his DNA evidence, arguing that the methods
used are not yet widely accepted in court. I think
I read that this court in New York that would
be trying him that they've never used this type of
DNA sequencing before and therefore it's not reliable. Like that's
what the that's what the defense is going with. His

(01:03:51):
legal team has also asked the court to separate the
charges into multiple trials instead of combining all counts into
one serial killer case, citing concern of jury prejudice. Prosecutors
are opposed to this, arguing the cases share common evidence
and methodology. The judge has yet to issue final rulings,
and no trial date has been set, though it is
tentatively expected that he will go to trial in late

(01:04:15):
twenty twenty five or early twenty twenty six, so obviously
we will continue to follow the trial. I mean it's
been it's so interesting. I mean to see a trial
of a serial killer. I mean, the Karen Reid trial
was interesting, and then I thought Coburger was going to
go on trial, and that was interesting. And now we
just have a psychopath it's going to go on trial.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
I like the cases, the true crime cases where it's
just like one and done, like one one incident, like
the one the Karen Reid won.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
You mean, you like just one point of contact and
can then you just analyze that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Instead of like, so this guy is leaving people in
body parts all over the place, and then it took
ten years and the police officers corrupt and all that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah, all right, well I it's but it's an interesting
thing too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
It was well, i'll tell you what we learned. What
we learn that if you don't have a corrupt police
of chief or chief of police, that you could have
solved this murder a rhyme within a matter of months,
well six weeks. Well, well, it took a while to
gather all the evidence first and then six weeks to
review the evidence.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
That's true, that's true. But I but what.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
If that chief police like threw away that interview that
was key? Yeah, I mean, what if he destroyed that
though I don't want this on that threw it out
that that is a huge different outcome.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
And I never thought of that. I mean, I guess,
I guess we the only good outcome is that he
didn't destroy evidence.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
That's where he draws along.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Yeah, He's like, I I have morals, I'm not gonna
I'm gonna fun ethical to destroy evidence. All right, Well,
thank you for listening to the Gilgo Serial Murder. You
can watch there's a lot of documentaries on it, so
if you want more information, you can watch all of those.
It's very calm, alluded, very complex.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Very a lot of interviews at of a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Of interviews with family members talking about the girls, a
more insight into their lives and who they were. And
you know, so if you have any information or you
know other things, or you have questions, I love that
you guys always DM about the podcast and you like
to add and ask questions. It's great. We really really

(01:06:25):
appreciate it. And if you have any other cases that
you would like us to talk about. I'm always happy
to take your suggestions. So thank you guys for listening.
We appreciate it. Thank you