The Eds: unEDited with Matt Ginella

From Real Housewives of Orange County, Katie’s husband, Matt Ginella, joins Edwin and Eddie for an unfiltered conversation about what really happened to Katie this season.

Matt shares his behind the scenes truth on what went down at Maestros, and the reason for Katie’s time being cut short. 

Plus, why he believes he was the only husband to step in the reunion hot seat to defend Katie. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to another podcast of the Eds. My
name is Eddie Judge, and we have our co hosted
and we have a special guest today. He is well
known as the husband of Katie Janella of the Real
Housewives of Orange County. Katie and Matt have been on

(00:21):
the show for two seasons now. They have four children,
and interestingly enough, Matt is a travel storyteller and journalist
and he owns his own production company, fire Pit Productions,
And I can't wait to hear all about that. That
sounds like a very very interesting business. Matt, welcome to
the show.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you, guys, thank you for having me. I appreciate this.
I have to correct you, technically, I think Katie's really
only been on a season and a half.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
That is a good technicality, right, what a season. I
don't think it's ever happened like that since I've been
on where you know, a housewife comes on and halfway
through the season she's out. It definitely is unprecedented. So hey, Matt,
we're going to really get to know you. I've gotten
to know you a little bit better. We just got

(01:09):
back from Brava Khan. We got a really awesome time
to have dinner together with Mike and get to know
each other. I think the conversation really revolved more around
like medical conditions, which is difficult of our age, right.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
A bunch of old guys wax and politic.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
About old guy talk. You'll get there soon, Edwin. So
first off, let's just recap a little bit about Bravo Con. Uh,
did you have a good time? Is that your first
Brava Con?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
That was my first?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I I.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Feel like I've, you know, a lot of people like,
what was Bravoca? How was Bravo kan, you know, and
I'm you know, we're still sort of processing the whole thing.
I've tried to describe it as you know, I don't know,
it's like a college football game, tailgate party, face painters,

(02:07):
but it's but it's but it's like three days. It's
like more like a college football festival or you know,
like it is it's it's it's the super Bowl of
this Bravo verse, right like and and it was. It
was incredible. The energy is uh, for the energy to

(02:30):
be sustained for that many days in a row, obviously,
Vegas supports all of that, and then all the different
events that are that are happening, and I, you know,
personally for me considering you know, what Katie has endured
in terms of you know, this this show and this

(02:50):
this this particular cast, and how she was you know,
in my opinion, I'm biased, but from what I saw,
it was pretty that was pretty pretty hard for her.
So for her to go then to Bravo Khan and
then feel the love and see her get the love
from so many fans, not only the fans which are

(03:15):
are sort of avid. These are avid followers of the
show as you would know, but then there's also these
castmates from all these cast members from all these other
shows coming up to her and reaching out to her
and supporting her, going out of their way to find her.
I think for me, as someone who has watched all

(03:36):
the tears and the heartache and some of the stuff,
she's going to then see that it was fun. It
was fun and getting a chance to sit down and have,
you know, even just hear from you someone you've been
around this a lot longer than I have, so to
be able to have good, healthy conversation with people who

(03:58):
you know, again, some of the other husbands came up
and talked to you know, I was like, Wow, this
is really cool to get this opportunity. So, yeah, it
was fun. It was exhausting, but it was.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Fun, I have to say the least. No, I totally
sincerely understand your viewpoint on what they did with the
show this season, and I was curious to see how
Katie's appearance was going to be at Brovo Con because
my experience from the first Provo Con is that everybody there,

(04:32):
I would say ninety nine percent of the people that
are there are super supportive super fans, and there's never
every negativity or or bad energy. When you're there talking
to the bands. They all want to take pictures with you,
and it feels good. I always say, I didn't do
anything to be on the show. I'm just a supporting

(04:53):
cast member for my wife, right, But everybody you know
seems to you know, want to support me and take
pictures of me, and it feels good to be to
be a part of that.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
You're a rock star, by the way, I was privy
to the idea I was. I saw firsthand that almost
I mean, I couldn't believe that just that first day. Yeah,
I was. It was cool to also see how many
people reacted to you and supported you specific it was
that was amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
No, I have to say I do love the Bravo fans.
I think that's that's a really cool experience. And I
would I would honestly say that it would be a
lot more rewarding if I was a main character or
I actually did something, you know, for the show. But
as you know, my mo is this day the hell
out of way, out of the way and let them,
you know, do their thing and not be a sixth

(05:46):
or seventh housewife. That's just not my thing.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Did you have a line around the corner of just
people wanted to take pictures with you?

Speaker 1 (05:53):
No? No, I actually didn't get a chance to do that,
but I did throw myself in the mix of it.
There was a the mein Expo Hall where everybody's at
and they have booths and everything. My wife and a
number of other housewives were up there doing a talk
about something, and I just got a little board, so
I threw myself into the crowd and just started walking around.

(06:14):
I really wanted to see what the booths were out there,
and I thought, you know what, this is going to
be risky. I'm not going to get through this without
taking a thousand pictures, and sure enough, I took Michelle,
our hair girl, and she was my camera girl the
entire time. I took about a thousand pictures. And at
one point these two guys were walking by behind there,

(06:34):
like I think that's I think that's Tamor's husband. Yeah, yeah,
that's Tamra's husband. And I couldn't help it. I just
couldn't hold it in any longer. It's been so many years.
I had to turn around and say, my name is
Eddie Judge. I haven't idea Eddie, So I'm okay, you know,
with being Tarma's house hustbman, but I do have a name. Awesome.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
And Matt, who did you other than Eddie? What other
husbands did you enjoy meeting down there?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Let's see, well, Charles Oakley, which you know again as
a sports fan. Oh yeah, I think him.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
He was very friendly.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
He was friendly. He's also just cool. He's like he
looks cool. He looks like he could still short of
the gray hair, but even the gray hair looks so
cool on him. I uh, he is fit, he's like
he is. He was a beast obviously in the NBA,
and continues to be look like he could still go.

(07:36):
He finished. I finished his career with ten rebounds and
ten points a game, finish with a double double. Basically
retired with the double double. I can guarantee you he
could still get ten and ten right now tomorrow. Let's see.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
So Teresa Judayson, Oh, Teresa, her husband Louis Louis.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
And then he came up to me and sat down
next to me. You you had come up there at
the end of that conversation, he came up to me.
Teresa has been like gone out of a way to
be supportive of Katie. And he came up to me
and sat down next to me, and we sort of
talked about you know, I didn't even We just talked
about just sort of life on the show and just

(08:19):
how what it is like to be a husband of
a housewife kind of thing. And then and then PAULI,
the guy from Ireland. I listened to your interview with him.
I'm you know, I'm I'm you know, I'm part Irish.
I've spent a lot of time in Ireland. I love
all things Ireland and the Irish, and so I got

(08:41):
introduced to him. We had a brief conversation and then
I feel like I know him now because I listened
to your podcast with him, which was really cool. But
and there are others, you know, I was sitting next
to Vicky's you know, I would say significant other partner, Yeah,
Mike at the time in which Vicky essentially accepted the

(09:03):
orange from Andy and Mike is I think Mike is
very clearly going to be a guy, you know, assuming
Vicky is on in season twenty, is going to want
to be like you anywhere. He's just yeah, I don't
think he you know, he is in support of Vicky. Yes,
but he was like he very clearly did not know
Vicky was coming on for Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
He was sitting right behind me. I turned around and
I looked at him, and he had this deer in
the headlight, looked like oh shit.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
He actually verbalized the words, and then, you know, but
then he very quickly was like, look, this is her thing.
I'm supporting her. You know, she good for her, Like
I'm happy for her. So yeah, it was very funny.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
So let's uh, let's go back a little bit. You
said you grew up in northern California. Tell us a
little bit about your upbringing. Where'd you grow up? Do
you have siblings.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, so northern California, Santa Rose, the youngest of five kids.
My father was a civil engineer for Bechdel Power. My mom,
you know, obviously they had four kids in four years
and then had me nine years later. So I was,
I was. I was told all along that I was
always planned. But it turns out like maybe I was.

(10:20):
My thirtieth birthday. My sister was like, you know, by
the way, you were a total surprise, right, like I mean,
you know, yeah, shattered my whole sort of thought of
who my existence. But yeah, so then I, you know,
very idyllic childhood in northern California, you know, in a

(10:41):
great neighborhood. My father commuted to San Francisco from Santa Rose,
literally bought a house in San Jose, I think, to
make sure that we as a family had a better
upbringing in this, you know, outside the So he grew
up in San Francisco, Yeah, outside the city. So but yeah,
my grandfather, actually you'll appreciate this said when that he

(11:05):
was one of the original part owners of the San
Francisco forty nine ers. Wow, so you as a RAMS
fan mean yeah, really we are really are we are.
We are rivals but it was like all these Italian
guys in San Francisco businessmen got together and put together
the first one hundred thousand dollars that it took to
own a franchise in the NFL at that time. And

(11:28):
my grand and the more beatle brothers had fifty five
grand between the two of them, and they needed nine
friends at five grand each to be part of the
forty nine ers, And my grandfather went in and eventually
all those guys died off and it became kind of
an ownership of widows, right, All these widows were the
owner of the forty nine ers, and they ultimately sold

(11:50):
to the de Bartolo family. And as a result of
that five percent investment into the forty nine ers, my
grandfather had written in a trust that he would put
all of his grandkids through college college of their choice.
We had tickets, We got tickets at the fifty yard

(12:11):
line at Candlestick Park, and you know, so essentially from
that five thousand dollars investment, he put like twenty three,
twenty four grandkids through through college plus then some right,
like it was, it's an amazing story and investment. So yeah,
through and through a forty nine er fan, and then
went to Saint Mary's College Tree. Yeah, no, to the

(12:32):
dynamic everything, right, I mean, that was an amazing thing.
So went to Saint Mary's College in Maraga, and I
played I started golf at an early age. I went
to a camp. But I played all sports in northern California,
so it was very typical. Uh you know, I was
playing baseball, football, basketball, soccer, you know, all those things.

(12:52):
And then I actually started riding horse. I was a
three day inventor for years, owned very athletic, owned five horses.
I don't know that I'm I mean, I'm very I'm
you know, I'm kind of you know, I just did
a lot of things, right. I don't know whether or
not I was like, but I did own we went
five horses. So I really focused in on horses. And

(13:13):
it was at a horse event in my senior in
high school. Having grown up around golf, worked in golf,
I was always working on the you know, maintenance crews
for our summer jobs and stuff. But I it was
the senior year in high school when one of my
horses colleged right before one of my biggest events, and
I wasn't able to compete and in that in my mind,
that was a bit of a sign for me. I

(13:34):
was like, all right, that's it. I was like, do
I want to pursue this horseback riding thing and forego
college and try to chase the Olympics or do I
need to sideline this and focus on college and go.
And so I took that as a sign, sold all
the horses, all the commit and essentially turned to golf
at that point from a competitive standpoint my senior in

(13:55):
high school, and then went and played at Saint Mary's College. Now,
mind you, in the early nineties, pre Tiger Woods turning,
you know, essentially pro in nineteen ninety six, almost anyone
can play college golf like you. If you could break eighty,
you could play college golf Division one. And I did
and that end, I played four years at Saint Mary's

(14:18):
and then ultimately went to New York City chasing dreams.
I wanted to work it and I did a bunch
of radio all throughout my life and career. I wanted
to be the play by play announcer of the Padres.
That was my dream.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
So you didn't want to be a professional golfer.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
No, no, no, no, never never wanted to be a
professional golf Okay, no, it was all. My whole background
is in communications, storytelling, radio. It goes back to the beginning.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
And that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Ultimately went and landed a job at Sports Illustrated at
nineteen ninety five as an unpaid intern and eventually caught on.
I was full time employee in nineteen ninety six. They
made me the golf to editor at Sports Illustrated. The
same week Tiger Woods turn pro in nineteen ninety six
at the Milwaukee Open. Nice and so, I caught lightning

(15:08):
in a bottle and work was working with Tiger for
several photo shoots at Sports. I posed Tiger with a Tiger,
which is one of my all time great stories that
will go in a book someday, but which was on
the cover of the nineteen ninety eight Sports Illustrated Master's
Preview issue and.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Like a real Tiger, Yeah, like a real time.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Which again, no, that was trust me. That was my
whole life and career was on the line at that point.
You know, Tiger eats Tiger, that would have not been
That would have been the end of my whole different Yeah,
we would not be on this podcast right now. But
then I went to Columbia Journalism School because at Sports Illustrate,

(15:49):
I realized I wanted to try to write the stories
and not just help illustrate the stories, and enrolled in
Columbia Journalism School, did that part time while I was
working the meantime, got director of photography job at Golf Digest,
kept doing journalism program, graduated from Columbia's Journalism School in

(16:10):
two thousand and three and became the travel writer for
Golf Digest in two thousand and six. Wow, So was
this it?

Speaker 1 (16:17):
This?

Speaker 2 (16:18):
You know, this time, I'm early late twenties, early thirties,
and I become the travel writer for Golf Digest, and
I set off on this incredible journey as a single
guy traveling the world getting paid to write stories about
golf destinations and buddies trips and where to stay, where

(16:39):
to play. And then social media came along, and was
kind of the first adopters of all of you know,
Twitter and Instagram, and had my own blog and eventually
got the job in twenty thirteen as one of the
co hosts of a show on Golf Channel called Morning Drive.
And it was an ensemble cat of characters and I

(17:01):
was the I was the travel guy. I was the
travel insider. So I ultimately went to a had a
show called Janella's Journeys, and I turned everything that I
was doing writing wise into this this video you know crew,
and we'd go again travel the world with a crew
and tell people where to stay and play and share stories.
And that kept going all the way until I left

(17:27):
Golf Channel in twenty twenty and started my own production company,
Traveling Lifestyle Production Company. February of twenty twenty, the month
before COVID hit, before all the good vibe and the
good luck and the good place and the good timing
actually came to a screeching halt. That that month of

(17:48):
March twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
I was just going to ask Mad what from that time,
you know, I think ninety six to twenty twenty, what
was the hardest part of that of that career, Because
it sounds like it was just great the entire time,
but I'm like, it kind of been that great for
twenty five straight years.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Did you have some moments where you just really struggled
that really sort of catapults you to where you're where
you got?

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I mean, I think you know, obviously, uh it's interesting.
That's a that's I've never been really asked that question before.
But I think back to I think back to I
was working full time and going to Columbia Journalism School
part time in New York City, and I was living

(18:39):
in New York City in like the Upper east Side.
Columbia Journalism School was on the Upper west Side, and
golf di just was in in Connecticut. So I was
I was managing all of and golf I just was
very great and it's very supportive of what I was
doing to finish up my degree at Columbia, and I'm
very grateful to that. But I think back to that

(19:00):
time where I had no free time like I was.
It was I was exhausted talking, you know. I think
back to myself, how could I have possibly done that?
How did I make time? Now? Again, I'm single, right,
you know, could have never done this if you actually
had family or other obligations outside. So I was fiercely

(19:22):
selfish in that sense where I was just this was
and when you go to journalists, when you go to
when you go to get a master's degree and you're
further along in life. I tell kids all this time,
all the time, take some break between you know, undergraduate
and graduate school to make sure because when I when
I was at Columbia at that time, I knew that's

(19:43):
exactly what I wanted to be doing. This was exactly
what was worth my time, effort, and energy because I
had figured out that I wanted to be a writer. Yeah,
well that was that helped me get through what I
would call I mean, there were certainly tough day but
if you're really asking about a stretch of time, that
year and a half that I was making all of

(20:06):
that work, it was really based on the fact that
at the core of everything, it was my passion. Right,
That's what gets you through, what's going to make sure
that you actually get to the finish line of a
marathon or whatever, you know, whatever journey you're on, it's
at the core of it. This is what I knew
I wanted to do with this is what I love.
So it actually didn't feel it was exhausting, but it

(20:28):
didn't feel like work. It didn't feel it didn't feel tough.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, well, Matt, I love that answer because a lot
of times people don't realize the type of sacrifice that
it takes to get to where you got to in
your career, and you know, they just see sort of
the end result, but they don't see the sacrifice that
you have to put the work ethic the time. You
know that, Just so I'm glad you shared that. And
twenty twenty what made you want to leave what sounds

(20:55):
like a pretty comfortable position to now starting onpreneurship and
dealing with the uncertainty of that.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
So at the time in Golf Channel, there were rumblings
that again Golf Channel had been sort of, you know,
become part of this bigger network machine, right NBC, Comcast,
and so Golf Channel was successful in making money, but

(21:26):
at the bottom line of the big business. As anybody
knows in this world, a lot of times you got
to make cuts, or you know, you got to make
cuts to one thing that might actually be successful and
profitable to try to account for other failings of other
verticals within a business. Right, I knew enough people at

(21:47):
Golf Channel. I knew there were there was change coming.
Twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, there were rumblings that things were
going to be there was things are going to need
to be addressed at the bottom line. And at the
same time, because I was I was in the travel business,
and I would go out and shoot for five days

(22:10):
in Ireland, for example, sunrise to sunset, sunrise to sunset.
We'd come back with five days worth of footage and
we would only end up using twenty minutes of it.
And that was soul crushing for me because I knew
what we had. Right. So I was watching look at

(22:30):
barstool sports right where the great sort of cage rattle
to distribution of content and stories was happening. Linear distribution,
or I had watched kind of the weekly news, weekly
magazines become irrelevant. Sports illustrated, Golf World magazine. You're not
getting those until days after the actual event. Well, Internet

(22:53):
came along. Everything was then then I was working at
a monthly magazine. Well we were going from four hundred
pages down to like one hundred and twenty pages. So
I saw the decrease in the relevancy of these different
distribution models. And then linear TV had the disruption of
you know, streaming and all these other outlets YouTube, and

(23:16):
that was concerning for me. I saw that the inefficiency
of having you know, I used to say, we killed
the cow and only ate the fil a. All this
other stuff would go to waste. So for me, it
was like if I started a production company and I
can work directly with these destinations or these brands and say,

(23:36):
let me help you tell your story and you're going
to own your story, and we can be more efficient
and effective with the stories we tell and do read, watch, listen, long, medium, short,
Let's put everything out in all these different you know,
aspects of distribution. That to me made more sense of
where I was and what I was doing. The you know,

(23:58):
COVID caused a lot of challenges. It forced me to
pivot into a media company that ultimately failed, and I
learned a lot of hard lessons there. But what did
happen is I started a podcast, the fire Pit Podcast,
in which, like COVID, everybody was available. I was telling
some of the great best stories I had ever heard
or was interested in. I sat around and I was
getting multiple voices to tell one story and piecing it

(24:20):
all together. So those all still exist. You know, That's
something I hope to get back to because I have
my radio roots and storytelling. I love podcasting. I think
it's one of the coolest and purest forms of having
conversation and you can get to the heart of some
matters just like you guys do on a regular basis,
and then that you know, you take those cuts from

(24:40):
the podcast and you create social teases and you know,
to me, that's all part of what I saw when
I was, you know, sort of in this linear model
and it was giving me anxiety, and I was like,
I think I need to do something else. So that's
ultimately why I started what was Dawn Patrol Productions and
then became fire Pit Collective and now it's fire Pit Productions.
So I'm back to the production company model that I

(25:02):
had originally started in twenty twenty, and I got back
to that two years ago, and now I've got a
lot more success from the same model that I kind
of had to sideline for two years.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Did you have any concerns going into Real Housewives with
maybe your credibility reputation being put to the test. Was
that a concern?

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Boy, not until about two weeks ago. Quite awesome.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
I think we should go back a little bit further
to when you were first asked. I'm curious to know
what was your first thought when you thought about it,
and were you familiar with the show, Like, holy shit,
are we really doing this? Or what went through you
guys's head and why did you say yes.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
The first time they reached out to Katie and they meaning,
I guess it's casting, right, There's a layer to all
of this. I don't think people always understand that there's
there's people out there who are who get utilized to
try to find potential cast. You know cast, I don't
know cast members, members members.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, some of them literally go to bars and restaurants
in Orange County to talk to, you know, the people
in that circle or that social gathering to get to
know people. I've heard stories like that where they're sitting
there just totally analyzing you, like, yeah, that could be
a good housewife, and then it goes from there.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
So that did not happen to us. But what happened
was in twenty twenty, right as my we were moving
from Florida because I was out in Florida for Golf Channel,
So I went from Northern California to New York City
to Florida, and then my father wasn't doing well. He
had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and my little guy was
in a week, so we moved during that time of

(26:53):
COVID and that sort of redoing the business. We moved
across country and settled in San Diego. The day we
were moving into the house we rented in del mar,
Katie got a call from somebody relating to Bravo saying, Hey,
you guys are friends with Byron Scott and CEC Scott,

(27:14):
Byron Scott of Showtime Lakers. You know, I'm golf buddies
with Byron Scott. We met in one of my travel
shows for Denzantebay in Mexico. We co hosted a group
of people down there. He brought his buddies, I brought mine.
We had this incredible time. Byron Scott is a very gracious,

(27:35):
kind loving human. But I love Byron Scott and we've
played many rounds of golf. Great guy. Well, they were
on a show, I want to say, it's called Basketball Wives,
and they were asked, oh, do you know anybody in
southern California who might be you know? And I was around,
I was in and around TV. Katie is you know,

(27:56):
beautiful and is done modeling and done some TV herself,
and we got recommended. That's how Byron and CC Scott
recommended us. And we got a phone call as we
were moving into San Diego, and Katie said, you know,
we sort of had this. I didn't even know. I
had no idea what housewives is. Okay, I had heard
the term desperate housewives. I had no idea there was

(28:18):
real housewives, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, what,
I don't even know what this. So this is twenty
twenty and she said that we're moving into a house
in San Diego. There's no you know, it's not happening.
So then they called back in twenty twenty one. Still
not happening. They called back in twenty twenty two, like
it was. They kept kind of circling around this. Now,

(28:38):
at the time, when as I said, I failed, I
failed with the media company Fire Pick Collective, we got
two big, two fat We had dropped that Phil Micholson
article on what he had said about the PGA tour
and all this. You know, we dropped that and went
globally viral. We thought, oh, this is amazing, this is
going to be easy. Not it wasn't that easy. So

(28:58):
at that time, when I was pivoting out of the
media company and trying to get back to the production company,
they called again. And we had also started this this
other company called t shots flavored alcohol shots and golf balls,
you know shot, you know, dispensers that we're going to
put in sleeves. It was a good idea this and that,
and when they called it was like, Oh, our partners

(29:21):
are up in Orange County. We can get closer to them,
move to Orange County, get in with them, and and
use Housewives as like a platform to you know, oh,
if we're going to if we got this product, this
could be good marketing. I had been in and around TV.
I was kind of familiar with the idea, you know,
and then she knew Housewives whatever, and it was literally like,

(29:46):
let's give it a go. That's how it all kind
of came about. It was over quite a long period
of time before there was an official like let's do this.
And at that time I was also feeling like she
had done nothing but supported me. I traveled the world.
She has been always like you know, she had we
have three kids from her previous marriage, but also one together.

(30:09):
She had been amazing and I really actually said out loud,
this is your time, go do show the world who
you are and what you are. And I looked at
it as probably very naively but looked at it as
a really cool opportunity for people to get to know
the woman I fell in love with. Yeah, and didn't

(30:30):
necessarily go that way, but that was the idea, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Now I think it went that way. It's just unfortunately
we don't have any control to is edited and how
it's edited. You know, at the end of the day,
my experience with my wife on the show, and I
think Edwin can share the same sentiment is as long
as you're authentic to who you are, there's nothing that
can go really wrong, you know, really really wrong, except

(30:56):
you're called an asshole or a villain or something. But
we're not in jail, we're not getting investigated by the FBI.
You know, none of that's happening to us.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Not yet anyway, I mean you well, no, yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
But I mean my point is is we don't. We don't.
We're not that kind of people to be on TV.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Uh. That was We obviously had several conversations about this,
and I know, you know, again having been around TV
for a better part of a decade, but even even
before that, it's even at Sports Oscirator, Golf Digest, I'm
around a lot it was around a lot of media.
And I have friends who have had very successful careers

(31:36):
in in television, and I always say this, There's there's
people who do TV, and then there are TV people, right,
there are people who had just happened to have a
career in TV, and they are they are people, they
are that they are who you know, what you see
on TV is exactly who they are in real life.

(31:57):
And then there are like TV like kind of they've
become cartoon characters. They sort of lose touch with reality.
And I'm not talking about housewives right now, I'm just
talking about TV in general, right, yeah, yeah, And they
never break character of what they are on TV. And

(32:18):
we I have always been because I just can't help
myself fiercely committed to just being myself. What you see
on anything I do on TV is exactly who I am,
and Katie is the same. There's no we are just
we always were going to stay committed to who we are.

(32:40):
We have a great inner circle of friends. We have
the typical family issues, just like every family does with
the you know, the ups and downs and the volatility
of relationships, whether that be siblings or parents or grandparents,
whatever that is but we are who we are. There's
nobody who's like, oh, that's not the Janella's. You know,

(33:01):
that's who we are. But narratives get twisted or you know,
allowed loud enough people can you know, say things in
certain ways that make people question whether that or don't
know who we are. And that's that's we not. We
understand that. I got we get it. The only the

(33:24):
only time that I've really been dragged into this, so
to speak, was was relating to you know, sort of
blatant lies. And then you know, I was willing to,
you know, tell my truth, which is the truth. But
and I did that for her, you know, for my wife.
There is not many people. Thankfully Tamra was willing to

(33:46):
it's willing to take time and and have conversation with it.
But the others weren't. And that that's the reason, really
the reason why it is where it is, you know
right now as we're sitting here November twenty twenty five.
But honestly, it's us closer as not only a couple
but as a family. I love her more today than
I ever have. There's there's never you know, I yeah,

(34:11):
I I People say, will you do it again? I said,
this is her choice. Yeah, right, if she wants to
do this, if she's willing to do this, I'm very
willing to continue to support her and love on her
and do what needs to be done at the house
as she goes off and does different things, because she's
always been very willing to do that for me throughout

(34:34):
the first ten years of our relationship.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
So well, I got to give it to you, Matt.
I watched a little clip about the third or the
second reunion where you were at the reunion. You were
the only guy up there, and you were telling, you know,
your side and defending your wife and speaking the truth
and and and it's just like I just saw a

(35:00):
strong man sitting in an environment surrounded by lions, and
they're all coming after you, just trying to get at
you and poke at you and just you know, trying
to get you to get upset and say something really bad.
And you just held yourself like a very gracious man
with a lot of confidence. And obviously you know you

(35:23):
have a confidence and all your experience of journalism, the
truth always prevails. And it's all I could see is
you're just telling the truth. This is what happened. This
is what really happened. Your lies and you're twisting and
your you know, story on how you want to make
this happen is not what happened. I'm here to tell
the truth. And I was like, man, that's that's a

(35:43):
tough place to be right Edwin, Like you've mentioned it
many times, like I don't want to go against any
of these women because one they know how to chew
you up and spit you out.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Then alone all of them at the same time.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and Badges.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
I would not have done that.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
It's it would have been very difficult for me to
to be in those shoes. But I definitely have a
lot more respect for you because you were there to
support your wife. You're you weren't there for TV time,
you weren't there, you know, to be a six or
seventh housewife. You were there to really protect the truth
of what your wife was going through. And and you

(36:24):
know this, this whole season really was a mix of
lies and bags of lies. And I truly believe it
started before the season started. But it was a very
interesting season to say the leadst but to see what
happened in your guys's journey and how you guys were
cut off mid season. That's wrong and my opinion when

(36:45):
in reality, you're not the liars in this whole world
of you know, season nineteen, you guys were the ones
telling the truth and and your truth is the truth,
like you mentioned, not the lies that these guys were
conspiring to try to take my wife down and any
and around you know that that supported or was associated
with my wife. It was. It was a tough season

(37:05):
for my wife.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I I the all that the lot said there and
I go back to, you know, that night at that
dinner as three couples, and I am masters who I did.
I had no idea. I had Slade and Gretchen and

(37:29):
you know that that I didn't even know who these
human beings were. We were going to dinner with with
Jen and Ryan and then they came along and and
all of a sudden, it was like, oh wow. You know,
and I've said this many times and you know, look,
one thing I will say about your wife is she

(37:51):
speaks the truth. It may not always be I said
this to you it in Vegas. It may not always
be the time you know, someone wants it said, or
in and when they want it said. But at the
end of the day, like it's the truth. So it
like you know, in what she does is she advances
storylines because it's like, hey, this needs to be said,

(38:13):
we might as well say it now and let's get
it out and let's talk about it. And I agree
with her, which she says, Hey, let's get it out there,
let's talk about it, and then let's move on. Okay, great,
that that is the show, conflict resolution, moving on, growth, evolution, whatever.
You know. If if from what I'm seeing, that's I
think that's what it's supposed to be. I will tell you.

(38:37):
And this is a very obvious to me now. And
I think to everybody that the hate that these people
and I would say it's probably actually more so Ryan
and Slade than it is Gretchen and Jen. But their
hate for Tamra and or I don't know if you

(38:57):
or whatever that is, I don't even know that that
is so that is so blinding to them or so
important to them that they that that is their tunnel
focus is is to go after you know her and
you and that that that that was very obvious. This

(39:18):
is if I wish I could know what I know
you know now and go back to that time, but
it's that that's not possible. So here we are, and
then you know, just the whole this narrative that my
wife is the liar and that she talks to bloggers
and that that lie detector test was somehow at all,
at some some something other than a than a than

(39:41):
a clown show like that was that was very obviously
actors doing whatever it is that Emily conspired to do
to get Katie out. It was like, I don't I
still can't actually figure out what the hell is going
on here, you know, as Slade is calling me nine
one one, I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I think it's the latter. I truly believe he has
no power. He truly thinks he's got some power, and
he's a good liar to you. Yeah, he will say
anything anything to be on TV. So I would say
he was trying to play you the entire time, mostly
because you're newbies, if you will, you know, being on
it year two, I mean, what's the biggest difference between

(40:23):
the first year and the second year for you?

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, that would be that would be slay and gradual.
I mean, you know, year one it was like, I,
you know, there was this thing with Heather and when
you know, again we know media, we know for Tigrah
in my opinion, she called the pop ride whatever. And
then it was like this thing and it was like okay,
like even that is like you know, and then harm

(40:47):
our deity, our daughter baby sent for Emily and the
kids said what they said, and yeah, it's not surprised
to anybody, and no one Katie wasn't out to try
to take her down or attack her kids. And what
really the real massive twist and the first indication like wow,
this is really toxic and gross was what took place

(41:09):
at the reunion after the season one where Emily obviously
and Gina and then you know, went in on her
about her past, which is failed first marriage for a
lot of reasons and you know, none of which really needed,
in my opinion, needed to be brought up, but they
felt inclined to do so as of some sort of

(41:30):
get back on Katie I don't know, And then started
season two right out of the gates with Gina coming
on with Emily blindsiding with like another you know, I
don't know, ambush of sorts, and it was like, oh wow,
this is taking a really dark and twisted turn, and

(41:51):
it just never stopped. It didn't stop until she was out.
And I don't you know, And again I've said this
many times. My wife was adopted Korea by a very
you know, sweet but very white couple in a very
predominantly white neighborhood in a suburb of Georgia. She was

(42:14):
always always felt different. I've heard her talk, I've heard
her stories. I've heard her story. She got pregnant at
the age of nineteen, she got into a very dysfunctional
and you know, you could say, very abusive first marriage.
She got out of that without a lot of support
from her family, and she she she emerged, she you know,

(42:37):
and we found each other and we are in love
and we are we have moved on, and she is
She's done a lot of incredible things. So my frustration is, like,
wouldn't that be at all interesting in a group of
women trying to articulate to a larger group of women
about what it is to navigate life. If this truly

(42:59):
is a about real housewife. I have a real housewife
who to me is phenomenal, But she is being sort of,
you know, snuffed out and diminished and belittled and bullied
and like, I'm like, what are we doing here? What
is the point of this show if it's not to

(43:21):
try to at least get in there and reveal some
of that. So that's my frush as a storyteller and
someone who loves a good story, who is always trying
to unearth and share some of the what's good out
there in this world, which there's plenty. My wife is
one of them. But for whatever reason that's not she's

(43:46):
not afforded that opportunity for She's afforded the opportunity for conflict,
but I don't see any opportunity for resolution. And maybe
that'll come.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I don't know well from a production side, I'm not
a producer or ever had my own production company. But
I'm sure you and understand this is what I'm about
to say. And that's when you have an ensemble of
six to eight housewives and each of them have their
own storyline and you're trying to make a TV show
out of it. And you know that historically, meaning in

(44:17):
the last five years, the more toxic the show gets,
the more ratings, the more eyes, the more talk, the
more it's more and more and more that you want.
So you start taking all the shock factors that are
either true or not. It doesn't matter to them at all,
But it's the shock factor that they want their audience

(44:37):
to get so that they can continue to come back
and see the show over and over and over again.
So to me, that means all the real stories, the
good things about the housewives are not going to make it.
There's just not enough room because there's so much toxicity
available that it's coming out of their pockets. Right. One

(44:57):
of the questions I had for you was how has
it affected your marriage? And it sounds like you answer
my question. It's just been great for you. Guys, brought
you closer together, and that's that's good because that just
solidifies that you guys are meant to be together and
this is who you are, and you guys can get
through almost anything. To me, this season felt like everybody

(45:20):
except Katie, because Katie was not on for more than
half the season. Everybody was trying to take my wife down.
And in one sense, I'm like, okay, it takes that
many women to take my wife down because she is
a bad ass. But in another sense, come on, you
know what's up with this gang up? This is not entertainment.
To me, it's not entertainment.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
I completely agree, and I certainly again having had the
conversations we had in Vegas, I appreciate Also, you know,
you've been doing this a lot longer than I have.
So I look to people like yourself where I'm like, yeah,
you know, it's nice to hear from somebody who's who

(46:01):
can Also, you know, it's very relatable for me to
hear from you. I think, I think at the end
of the day, going back to again that concept of
real people who actually do TV and then TV people,
I think, you know, when you look at these other franchises,

(46:23):
and we were around some of these other Caspers, and
I watched you know here, and I see the social
clips of Salt Lake City. Well, you know, Salt Lake
City is having this great one. I guarantee you Salt
Lake City is a and I haven't watched it, but
my guess is production affords the opportunity to allow authentic,

(46:46):
organic conflict resolution to happen anytime as anybody in any
storytelling or any you know what do we gravitate towards
on Netflix or you know, Amazon, whatever, who all these
different outlets we're gravitating towards the stuff that's authentic, that's

(47:06):
real that because we can sniff out something that is overproduced,
or we're given false narratives, or we watch people flip
and flop on their ideals and who they are as people.
The minute you start seeing that these people are listening

(47:28):
to the you know, the production of it, all they
lose going back to you got to be true to yourself.
And I agree with this whole Gretchen thing and the
likes of the post. I would have and I agree
with many people said I would have more respect for
her and them if they actually said, you know what,

(47:50):
these are our beliefs. It's rooted in our religion or
whatever they are, whatever that is, at least own it
and just be it. But the flipping and flopping and
then trying to say this is someone else who did this,
when everybody in the world, like, do they think we're

(48:10):
as dumb as they look? Do they really do? Is this?
Are we actually led to believe that that they are?
This is some sort of thing that we're the masses
would follow along with and be like, you know, right, yeah,
Tamra went in and did this years ago with the
idea that maybe Gretchen would come back like are are we?

(48:32):
Are they out of their minds?

Speaker 1 (48:34):
They honestly, that's the same mo they had back when
they were on the show. And I think that's why
they were fired and not brought back for so many years.
And frankly, I don't know why they were brought back
because they don't make good TV. They really don't. It's
not interesting at all, But.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
In their minds they're really good TV.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
But do you have to film in front of the
slave guy? I don't know him, but I just know
when you bring up his name, your body language changes.
I mean, it just looks like you can't be in

(49:12):
front of the guy because he would beat his ass.
Do you just not show up when he's filming? Or
how do you contain yourself when you're around the guy?

Speaker 1 (49:19):
I am not around the guy And the only the
only time I was was when we were I mean
I was. I had to go because my wife was gotten.
Not going to let her go by yourself to that
rodeo charity thing that Emily did, and I just went
there to support her and keep an eye on her
and keep and protect her. Really, you know, I was
willing to, you know, throw down if I had to,

(49:41):
if he was going to get physical. But you know,
when they when they walked up to her and again
try to gang up on her, She's just like, I'm
not doing this. We walked away, and as we're walking away,
I had this I couldn't resist, but you know, throw
the middle finger up and tell him to fu go
fuck themselves. We're not going to do this. And at
the end end of the day, I tried not to

(50:04):
go as much as possible because I do have a
lot of confidence in my wife, but I also know
what kind of scumbag he is and what kind of
story bullshit and twisted things he would do. And to boot,
it's not just them, it's their cohorts, Ryan and Jen
who are just jumping on the bandwagon to try to
take my wife down. So in one sense, I felt like,

(50:25):
you know me, I don't want to be a part
of this stupidity.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
It sounds like it could escalate pretty quick, like I could.
I could see you guys brawling with the way you.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Got oh yeah, oh yeah, and and and you know,
funny enough, I don't know if you heard this in
our conversation, Matt, but talking to Mike, he Oh. Yeah,
he was at dinner and he says, listen, I don't
put up with this shit. And I don't know how
you do it, Eddie. But if this kind of snagen
was come up in front of me, I'd had some trouble,
you know, dealing with my temper with these guys, and

(50:55):
I'm like, oh, Mikey, you don't want to go anywhere
near this, then No.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
I would not want to be on the wrong side
of Mike. He's got that He's like Texas strong, you
know what I mean, Like he's there's no he's an
immovable force.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
This is why I like him, I know exactly.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Cut to dinner, we're like, oh, we're having a good touch.
But I yeah, it's a fascinating thing. I quite frankly,
the idea that they exist in a world where that
is deemed compelling TV to me is that's that's That's

(51:32):
a whole other conversation.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yeah. I don't even care to try to analyze it either,
because it's just the waste of time. I'd rather talk
about the important things, like your experience. What was a
good takeaway from the last two seasons of being on
the Housewives?

Speaker 2 (51:47):
No, I really do. I this is true no matter
what happens, right, if this is if, if whatever comes
of Katie's futures, Lateste, bravo and this specifically this show.
One thing that we will take it is we've met

(52:07):
actually some really cool, interesting people we have had. I've
had the opportunity to learn more about my wife through this,
through this perspective of her, going back and revisiting as
dark and dysfunctional as it as was for her in

(52:28):
her life. You know, I think she compartmentalized a big
chunk of that. And of course we have had conversations
about this. We went through a couple of years of
a custody battle on her, on her kids, and so
I certainly knew, but I learned a lot about my wife.
It was actually therapeutic, I think, not only for her,

(52:50):
but for our daughter Kylie. And I have become a
lot closer through this process, I would say, Gavin, who's nineteen,
and I have become closer. We we as a family unit,
became very very tight through all of this. I think
by virtue of being attacked, you know, like these microaggressions

(53:11):
and all this stuff that was happening to us, I
think by virtue of that we got closer, we learned
a lot about who our friends are. We also learned
about who our friends are not right there by virtue
of this platform and these eye but you find out
everybody's coming at you. Can you do that?

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Can you? You know?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
And it's like wow, whoa you know? And then all
of a sudden people come out of the woodwork to
be your friend who weren't your friends for a long time,
and all of a sudden like, oh, we want to
be your friend. It's like whoa, whoa, Wait a minute,
we hadn't heard from you for you know, a long
time and now, so that's interesting. I think the interpersonal
and the psychology of it all has been fascinating. And again,

(53:53):
as a storyteller and someone around production, I've been more
fascinated by the production of it all from the very jump,
Like even when we get in those big group gatherings,
I'm always engaging with the crew, the camera people that
I'm always looking over shouldered. I love that. I love
wow this is you know. I used to go out

(54:14):
it with a crew of two to three people. They
have like twenty thirty people showing it and I'm like, wow,
you know, you go behind a black curtain and then
all the execs are back there. You're like, Wow, this
is a big, big production. And I've been impressed by that.
And but I I, you know, I still look at this,

(54:36):
you know, I and I watch Bravo kN and I
watch my wife. I see the fact that people see
through the smoke and the shade and do see her
for who she is, and that that definitely has meant
something to me. And well, well, we'll go on and
live another day one way or the other. We're not
ever going to deviate from who we are. We are

(54:58):
who we are, and whether we're on it or not
on it, or doing this or doing something else. The
you know, Matt and Katie Janella are the same people
and I and I've enjoyed getting to know you. Thanks
for this opportunity in this conversation, and I know it's
not our last. And uh ed when I look forward

(55:19):
to maybe a Podrey Dodger game at some point, you know, yeah,
love that name, Yes, yes, exactly. I don't the Rams
might win it all this year. I'm afraid they look
they look really good. I don't think McVeigh gets his
gets his due, and and hard to not like Stafford
and Pooka Nakoul looks amazing and DeVante Adams fell in

(55:40):
your lap with a gift.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
And I was just at the game last night.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
They looked great.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
By the way, since you've done all this golf and
stuff all around the world, what's the best golf course
you recommend for people?

Speaker 2 (55:52):
So the home of golf, Saint Andrew's, the Old Course.
I am a massive old Tom Morris fan. And this
is a guy who in the eighteen hundreds essentially helped
develop championship golf architecture, the golf equipment and and agronomy.

(56:14):
Like he was one of the first superintendents tending to
the Old Course, and he is he's the father of golf, right,
He's the man. And to go to the Old Course
and to immerse yourself in the town of Saint Andrew's,

(56:36):
which is to me one of the great little towns
in the world, even if you don't like golf, because
on Sundays, if you rock up to the Old Course
on Sundays, this is where they've hosted I don't know
twenty five Open champions what are their number is? I've
seen number of Open Championships on Sundays. It is a

(56:56):
park that golf course is closed and it is covered
with people on bikes and dogs and walkers, and it
is publicly owned land that also six days a week
serves as this world class, world famous a golf venue.
And Old Tom Morris had the thought of golf for all.

(57:19):
He believed in this should be a sport for everybody.
And I play all my golf at goat Hill Park
in Oceanside, California, thirty five dollars municipal that was saved
by my dear friend John Ashworth of Ashworth Golf Apparel
originally and then now he went on to start Link Soul,
but now he is solely dedicated to tending to goat

(57:41):
Hill Park, which is where they it was dead, it
was going to be going away. He saved it. Now
they have Junior Caddy Academy, they have thirty five dollars
municipality and it's golf for all. And you show up
in T shirts and you know there's no dress code.
You bring your dogs, your kids, everything. It's a beautiful place.
And I called John Ashworth old old John Morris because

(58:02):
that same mentality of the old course at Saint Andrews exists,
you know, down the street here at Oceanside, California. And
I think if every town had a goat Hill Park
or an old course, the world would be a better place,
you know, community community for kids in community first. So
absolutely yeah, And that's my love of golf. So Saint

(58:24):
Andrew's Old Course, go play it, grab a pint afterward,
and cheers to old you know, old Tom Morris.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
If you were to give an incoming house husband advice
on the show, what would that be?

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Uh? You know? I I think based on what I
know now, I wouldn't. I would not change a thing
about who I've been, what I've been to her for
her with her. I got invited to that reunion. I
said yes because I was simply asked to go on

(59:11):
and address Ryan and Slate about that dinner and the
story and the phone calls and the text messages. And
I was very willing to do that. I have shared
all of you know. That is the truth that there's
no deviating from that. I just think, love and support
your wife. It is real Housewives of Orange County, but

(59:32):
by virtue of them and their lives, I we play
a role just like kids do, just like their careers
do just like anything else. It's not yeah, we don't
hold an orange, but we are right there, you know,
shoulder to shoulder, just like they are with our lives.
This is so I just think, you know, loving and supporting.

(59:58):
You know, she's my best friend.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
What what am I?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
What am I going to do? Say no to?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Not?

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
You know what if I didn't show up, you know,
then these narratives and this bullying and this behavior has
no backstop. So to me, it was like, yeah, I'm
very willing to go on and tell the truth, and
no one else seems willing to to to to try
to admit to it or or or confront it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
But I would well, you had every incentive because you
have the truth and that's all you had to tell.
You know, you didn't make up any lie. You didn't
have to manipulate the story to stay relevant or anything.
And then I truly believe, and this is just my opinion,
had you said no to showing up to the reunion,
those other two would have totally stepped up for their

(01:00:47):
camera time just to you know, embellish their lives. So
big kudos to you for stepping in and telling your
truth and more importantly supporting your wife and loving ear
the way you do. I really admire that. I think
that's great advice is just support your wife one hundred
percent and I'll just you know, add to that, just
don't get involved.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Yeah, I mean, you know. And again I saw, you know,
go back to our house in Newport where we had
that dinner in season one. Yeah, and I didn't know
anything about I didn't know anything there was. I didn't
know anything. I think right before you guys show up, Kate. Oh,
by the way, you know, there's some tension between Ryan

(01:01:29):
and Eddie. I was like, wait, what what you know?
And again I didn't really know anything, and and then
it's brought up and then going back and look, I
don't really have anything. Ryan has always been decent to me.
I don't have anything against Ryan in that in that

(01:01:50):
you know, I was just getting to know everybody equally, right,
like you're right out of the gate, and that moment
where the two of you were going back and I
was like, holy, what the hell is going on here?

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
But and then the ladies walked off, and I will say,
you guys had a you guys had a fairly straightforward,
truthful conversation it seemed in my mind to get essentially
resolved and addressed, and it was like, hey, this is
what I heard. This is what I heard. I heard, Well,
you know, okay, you might not go on to be friends,

(01:02:23):
but like it was actually a conversation that took place,
and I was impressed, equally impressed with both of you
for the fact that you just had a conversation and
said this is what I heard. Is what I heard,
this is what I said. It's not what I said,
Okay it was And it was like you got over it. Yeah,
And I walked away going, you know, I think that's
why it's not Real House Husbands of Orange County because

(01:02:44):
it wouldn't actually be much of a show. Guys would
just be like, all right, all right, I said that, yeah, golf,
all right, well that's fine, all right, let's go, let's
go play golf, you know what I mean. Like, there's
the reason why it's not the Real house Husband. I
just don't. I saw a very snapshot that it just
you know, it got cleared up fairly, you know, easily.
And I don't. I don't ever see that happening with Slade.

(01:03:07):
I don't. I don't that's not happening. Uh, I don't like,
you know, I'm that I've learned now that is not
my type of person. I'm you know, I just avoid it. Yeah,
and we move on and it's fine. I don't, you know,
it is what it is at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
So yeah, I don't think that's any different than coming
to work for a big corporation and you know, just
unfortunately finding yourself befriending the wrong people in that company,
the non producers, the cancers, the they just don't do
ship for the company. So it's you'll you'll learn as
you go, but it's unfortunate that you have to go

(01:03:48):
through that and get your feet muddy and dirty and
all that, and you know, just wash them off, clear
them off, and know who you are. And then it
goes back to just doing doing what you're doing, just
being authentic. I mean, that's that's what Edwin and I
have been talking about this whole time. Just be yourself,
stay away from the shift show. And you know, you're
the only exception so far to that rule, Matt, because

(01:04:11):
you took on a huge role at that at that reunion,
and and like I said, you know, I couldn't see
myself standing there trying to Have.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
You ever been to have you ever been on a readion? No?

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
No, no, I I My worst experience out of this
entire show is being in the same room with all
the women ready to go at it, because that's what
they're there for, right yeah, And it's the most uncomfortable, unsettling.
I don't know if you've ever experienced that on those
on the show, But I try to avoid those moments

(01:04:45):
because it's just I know the ship's going to hit
the fan, and I hate to see it. But my
wife can handle herself. She's really good at what she does,
except when it's manipulated and lied and and and created
so that she looks bad. Right, that's that's not cool.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Well that that season one finale, we go to Jen's
engagement partner, and I knew full well that they were
all coming for my wife, right like I was safely
told that I sense that I was. I was, you know,
like I said, I had a brief conversation. I peeled

(01:05:24):
into the back. I wanted nothing to do with this.
I saw her getting yelled at. I had no inclination
to go. She can't handle herself. I have no problem,
you know, I was off myself literally going how much longer?
You know, we were two hours in and I thought, okay,
it's got to be wrapping up. Yeah, and the producer
I was standing next he goes, we got about another
two hours. I was like, two more hours. This can't

(01:05:46):
possibly be. Which is you know, an hour three is
when Shannon came at me, and you know, and I
was like, oh, you know, I was trying to be
consoling voice I had known Shan met Shan, I thought, oh,
you know, and she then yelled at me for no
apparent reason. And I that's when I was like, you know,
I was trying to stay out of I want no

(01:06:08):
I had no intention to be involved at all. Ever,
and by virtue of just by being you know, in
the saloon so to speak, when the gun starts going off.
I mean, some people you're you're in a gunfight, whether
you like it or not. You're just happy to be
at the bar. And that's and that was my first
and I was like, holy shit, you know, this is crazy.

(01:06:29):
And then you know your two did what it did
and is what it is. And I ended up in
that on that set. And by the way, what people
don't know is they brought me out onto that set
about twenty twenty five minutes before I even sat down
on that couch. And I watched my wife basically being

(01:06:49):
yelled at for twenty to twenty five minutes before I
even sat down, And so I was already kind of
keep up, like I can't get you know, like, and
they're you know, yelling lies and things, and she's going
back and it was her and Jen going back, and
I was like, oh my god. So I sat down
already kind of you know, triggered and to speak. And

(01:07:14):
I really did try to tried to hold the line
in terms of, for lack of a better returns to
use slavestorm in trying to be I wanted to answer
Andy's question, yeah, and I wanted to tell the story
about what happened and was getting interrupted and talked over

(01:07:36):
and yelled at and you know, called it all those things.
And I and I think I actually haven't watched the
full thing. I've seen little clips, but I can't actually
watch it. It's just I haven't watched the show itself
since season one episode before I just like peel it.
I was like, I can't watch this, but I they
for the small amount of people that have said that

(01:07:59):
I was rude or obnoxious like I I don't feel
like I was. I was trying to stay true to
the the answer, like I'm being accused of being rude.
I didn't call anybody any names. I didn't. I was
trying to stay true to this, yeah, to this, to
this the reason why I was out there in the
first place. And I you know, I wasn't rude. I

(01:08:23):
I if I were was rude, I would have I
would apologize, but I don't think that I was. And
I didn't say anybody's name. And I just told the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
So well, if telling the truth is being rude, then
you're you're not going to ever convince somebody with the
brain that that's not rude. You know, the truth is
not rude.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah, and and I and I think you know, at
Bravo Kan a lot of people were saying, oh, you know, oh,
you're such a good husband, and I was like, I
don't know. I just I if by being such a
good husband means you just love your wife and you
tell the truth, and okay, I'll take I'll take it,
but that's literally it. And I and I would I

(01:09:03):
would tell anybody, you know what would we tell Mike
right going into the situation, Mike is never going to
deviate from not being He's just gonna be himself. Yeah.
So yeah, and he's you know, he's going to support
Vicky probably at all costs, and that's that's what you
can that's the only way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a little bit
tough for Mike. From the little bit that I know
about him, he's just a straight, no bullshit kind of guy,
and there's a lot of that. No, there's a lot
of bullshit in this show, you know, particularly with some
of the casts that we had this season. And hopefully
it changes next season because I really hope it goes
back to being fun because it was fun when I

(01:09:42):
first got on it, and my wife was on the show,
and her and Vicky had a great time, and you know,
they had less toxicity, more fun times. That was entertaining,
and I do hope that it goes back to that.
But it shouldn't be as toxic as it's been for
the last couple of seasons.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
I think it's very simply, you know, there are people
on there that are insecure, they are threatened, they felt
you know, Katie coming in. You know, I seems really
obvious to me. She she got a lot of love
and support right out of the gates from a lot
of different people. You know, I can't believe that twenty

(01:10:26):
twenty five, right in front of our faces, that somehow,
some way shape or form, that the only person of
color is the one that they're going to just actually
bully in sideline and not listen to and not extend
the same grace, hold her to a whole different set
of standards, and everybody else is being held to, Like,

(01:10:46):
are we actually supposed to just go along with this
narrative as though this is being done without irony? That
seems shocking to me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I think a lot of that had to do with
sacrifice her because she was willing to speak the truth.
She wasn't willing to continue on that bandwagon of making
up lies and manipulating the truth to make themselves more relevant.
I don't think she's the kind of person that's going
to lie to be relevant. You know, it's not her mo.
She doesn't strike me as that kind of sleazy, slimy

(01:11:18):
kind of person. She's just straight up Katie.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Yeah, they act like she's so vindictive and you know
that Kiki Monique asked her to lunch right like I mean,
and they're talking in theory about Gretchen even though Gretchen
wasn't even on the show at that time. But this
was Katie's yeah, you vindictive demeanor. I don't you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
None of it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
None of it makes sense. It was Kylie who came
back to say, oh, that Emily's kids. But somehow that's
Katie being vindictive, you know, like you know, is it
that vindictive that you know? And so shocking that Heather
might say, Hey, by the way, we're going to be
a Disneyland, we're gonna you know, do you mind coming
and taking some photos of us because there's some ship

(01:12:02):
out there and we'd like to sort of set the
record straight with you know, showing that we love each other.
Is that so crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
No, it's crazy to get her out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
You know, you know, recording Shannon, Shannon, you know, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
I know, I know. It's like, uh, you know, I
don't know anything else you'd like to share with us
of your experience on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
No, I I no, This is this is therapeutic in itself.
Getting a chance to actually have as I said when
we were talking, I just felt, you know, it was
nice to actually have some time, you know, in that
in that setting, of of that world of the Bravo verse,

(01:12:51):
to have some to feel to feel that to see
her feel that that was that was cool. And then
being able to have some of the conversations that you
and I had, and then you know, just some of
the other opportunities to to to listen and listen in
on some interesting people sharing interesting stories.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
So, yeah, we've met some interesting guys at the at
the event too. I was surprised how friendly they were
and how cool they were. But you know that speaks
volumes of the person that's willing to just say, hey, hey,
my name is you know so and so, and I'm
part of the show. What's your part? You know. It's
like networking, right, We're just here for each other. We're
not here to take each other down.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
No, I met a guy from the like, Yeah, it
was just a very it was very interesting. The whole thing, uh,
And I found that to be one of the coolest
things was the mixing up of the first night we
went Gerty's husband, Russell Girty. By the way, we had
a dinner with Gerty and and actually Charles Oakley's wife

(01:13:55):
was there, and then there was it was all about.
It was a big group of women that Gerty had
picked who had had rough either seasons or had had
rough narratives within the framework of this Bravo verse. And
she hand picked this group of people to come to dinner.
And it was the first night we arrived. And I

(01:14:17):
will tell you right now that in itself was worth
doing this two years worth of this. What Gertie's a
rocket ship. She's amazing, but it just bullet full of
energy and she'd written a book. But then everybody else
in the room went around and shared their stories and
talked about different things and walked out of there going

(01:14:37):
wow that within the within the structure of this craziness,
there is some true authenticity, some warmth, some reality around
reality TV that I think does actually make for good TV.

(01:14:58):
And and I think that's been your point all along.
Don't ever deviate from who you are, and you don't
have to worry about anything, and let the chips fall
where they may. Ron White is a famous comedian and
I asked him early on and when I was doing
a story for Golf Digest, because he's a golfer. I said,
what advice do you have to young comedians and he said,

(01:15:21):
I don't. This is the advice I have to all
entertainers in general. I don't care what form of entertainment
you're in. You have to do two things in order
to be successful. Figure out who you are and then
see how far that will take you. And there's no

(01:15:42):
other ways around that. You have to be true to yourself.
Figure out who you are, be true to that person,
and then see how far that takes you. But there's
no there's no fake in it. You can't actually deviate
from that truth. Otherwise you're just basically a facade. You're

(01:16:02):
ultimately going to be a flop and people will figure
it out. Yeah, and I've thought about that pretty much
every day since. There is no way around anything other
than being who you are.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Yeah. Well, you know, I learned that lesson when I
was young. I don't remember who told me. But when
you lie, you can never make that the truth because
it's always going to be a lie, and you're always
going to be wondering is anybody going to figure this out?
You're going to be stressed, You're going to be anxious,
you're going to be somebody's going to find out that

(01:16:35):
I lied. That's the worst way to live, you know.
And if you tell the truth and they ask you
ten years ago and about what happened, it's the same story.
And it's not the lie that I made up, that
I forgot that I made up. This is the story,
this is the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
And I also say, like, my wife is fiercely true
to who she is. She can't help herself, she can't
be any and that's part of the reason and why
I love her and why she's fun and funny her
her what she says and how she says it and
where she said. It's hysterical and it's fun and we
have fun living life. Yeah, that's you know, that's She's

(01:17:14):
not gonna change. She's not changing now. She's not changing ever.
And you know, whether they like that or want that
or invest in that to be determined. But you know,
we're good, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
We're okay. Last last question, I love If if Braba
was to send you contracts for next season, would you
guys come back that again?

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
This would be totally her decision. Honest to god, I
do think and I've heard her say this, and she
you know, I'm going to paraphrase, but I feel comfortable
saying this because I heard her answer that very question
so many times, and it's I don't I think she
would want a chance, another chance to actually show who

(01:18:02):
she is and what she is. And I think there's
a big part of her that doesn't want to give
in and give up and let this this bully behavior
get the best of her. Right. I think very very
particularly pointed at someone like Emily who clearly holds her

(01:18:25):
to a different set of standard. It's just been actually
overly aggressive, and you know, in my abusive to my wife.
So I think there's this actual thought that I'm not
I don't want to I don't give up, and if
that's the past she wants to go, then I'm I'm
not going to deviate from supporting her now ever, you

(01:18:48):
know what I mean, It's going to be the same
attitude and energy, which how can I help, how can
I support? You know, and nothing but love.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
I I'd have to say the same thing for me
up to my wife. Ultimately, I support her and whatever
she wants to do, I know she understands the level
of toxicity it brings to our life. But it also,
like you said, she's not going to walk away from
this story the way it's been set and let, for
lack of better descriptions, let the other side win, right,

(01:19:19):
And not that we have any control of that. At
the end of the day, my wife is who she is,
She's authentic, and I'm sure she's willing to go back.
But it is a question that I had to ask
because it is a decision that's based on both of you,
and it is a decision based on both of us too.
We don't it's not just her, you know, it includes me,

(01:19:40):
and it's a big decision that we have to make together.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Yeah, and I think if there was actually an offer,
we would definitely sit down and truly have another conversation
before there would be some sort of signature involved. But
I and we would do it, you know, I'm sure.
But as a family, we you know, we have you know, kids.
I you know, our daughter is very she's she's a

(01:20:08):
she's she's a badass too, right, She's she's got her
own world and life and social media handles. She's been
subjected to bully behavior. She she knows what she's doing.
She's she can help us navigate this world because that's
how that's how uh in tune they are with what's
going on. And our son is amazing. I don't even

(01:20:30):
think he really he's just doing his thing right, He's
being who he is. He's a big hearted human being
who absolutely adores his mom and loves and supports it
like like crazy and is very cool part of this
this life we have and we're living. And you know,
obviously our little guy is uh he's the tithe of
bind so that that's definitely the most important thing and

(01:20:54):
the only thing that truly matters. And then you start,
you know, expanding from that, and I think it's hard
to watch what she goes through on a day to
day basis during filming and all of that. But at
the same time, it's her call. Yeah, it's it's and
I see. I think she also sees the upside and

(01:21:15):
the fun and the opportunities she gets and is getting.
In Bravo, Kan was another example of where she gets
to look really beautiful and feel the love and appreciation
and hear from a lot of people and make some
new friends and so you know, we'll see how it
all shakes out. The good news is we're gonna We're
gonna be okay regardless.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Well, Matt, it was awesome, awesome having you on our podcast.
We always enjoy interviewing house husbands, especially you know, real
guys like yourself, and it's been so positive so far.
I say that because I really don't want to interview
the house husbands we don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:21:58):
Right and when no, Man, great job. We wish you
the best again, very very courageous what you did supporting
your wife like that, So continue doing it, man, ye
look for it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
I walked off that and I literally she came back
in the trailer and I was like, holy shit, like
it's literally like putting two fingers into a light and
light socket. I was like, that's what you've been dealing
with like that, that's crazy. I was felt. I walked
away with more respect for her than anything. I was like, Wow,

(01:22:31):
that's intense stuff. I wonder why you can't get a
word in. That's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Yeah, yeah, again, thank you so much for coming on.
That was Matt Danella. You guys, if you have any
questions or comments, should have put them on our podcast.
Questions email us. We always love your feedback and appreciate
any opinions. You have awesome you guys. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Is it