Two Jersey Js: Blossoming Bialik

Jackie and Jen are joined by Mayim Bialik to discuss mental health, fame, aging, and what success means to her now.

With an incredible career already under her belt, does Mayim want to slow down anytime soon?

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everyone, it's Jackie gl Schnider and Jen Fessler. We
are two Jersey Jays, and oh my goodness, I'm so
excited for today's show.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today is like, this episode is Jackie's baby.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
I know.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
I have been a fan of my and b Elic
since I can't even tell you, since the first time
I saw her in Beaches, which is a movie that
breaks my heart.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I can't even watch it anymore.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
But she has just like always been larger than life
to make agreed, and somebody with that career longevity, I'm
just I'm so I'm so eager to ask her, like
what that's been like.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I was an avid Blossom watcher.
Of course, Beaches is I can't watch so funny after Kids,
It's really kind of a hard movie to watch, right.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, anything with kids, like losing a parent or a
parent losing a kid.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Since having children, I cannot. I've never seen terms of do.
I can't. I can't. It's too heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
And then I get sad, like I car the sadness
with me, So I can't watch those. But she's just
been like larger than life, like I said, But what
I really want to talk to her about is you know,
you and I have discussed this, like this focus on
what brings you true authentic happiness in middle age and
how to live your best life in middle age. So

(01:19):
I'm very curious to hear about how her meaning of
success may have changed over the years.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, you know, I mean you and I were talking
earlier about how you know this podcast has we started it,
you know, with the idea that it was going to
be about middle aged women and our struggles, our successes,
our joys, our sorrows, and I think there's so much
that comes up episode to episode that, you know, bringing

(01:46):
it back to this. I feel like mim is a
great gives us a great opportunity to bring it back
to how does it feel now as opposed to how
it felt then?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Right, yeah, I mean how you change with the whole
the aging process, you know, specifically in Hollywood, but just
also dealing with, you know, the day to day of
getting older. She's not I want to say, she's younger
than me, older than you. She is one year older
than me, one year older than you.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay, so we'll introduce her before we bring her in.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Though, how have you been.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I've been good, good, adjacent good ish. Yeah, yeah, So
what's going on? Well, I mean, I'm sort of getting
used to still, even though it's my second season on
Riho and J I'm still getting used to some stuff.
And for me in particular, lately, it's been hard for

(02:43):
me to adjust to the change in the way that
viewers see me and the way they're reacting on social media.
And I didn't think i'd have a problem with that.
We've spoken so many times about like when you get
to a certain age, the best thing about aging is
that you get the you know, who gives a shits
like whatever, But so I have some of that creeping in.

(03:08):
If I was younger, I think it would be worse
and just kind of getting used to the fact that
not everyone likes me.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's more than that, though it's the vitriol. It's social
media is really hard. And I've been doing this, you know,
since twenty eighteen. I'm still not used to it. I
still don't like it to go on social media and
just see people destroying you. Like I could post the
most like like picture of like nothing having to do

(03:37):
with the show, and I will just get like one
hundred mean comments and like, yeah, you get a little
bit numb to it, but it never stopped, at least
for me. It doesn't stop hurting your feelings. And like, yes,
signed up for it, signed up for a public life,
sign up for a reality show life.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
But it doesn't make it any easier, you know.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, I always talk about this with my therapist
that this show has really like provided me such a
mirror image of myself, my own journey, my personality, the
way I approach stuff. I could watch episodes and I
could see looks in my eyes that I recognize, like,

(04:20):
for instance, fear right, which is fear is something I
deal with, have been dealing with my whole life. But
I see it in my eyes and I see the
way that I'm reacting to whomever it is at the time.
And it's interesting because it's like, in a way, it's
this fabulous microcosm of life. And I guess what I'm

(04:40):
getting at is that even like with the social media,
so it's now upfront and personal in terms of how
people do people like me, do they not? And like
what do I do with that information? So as a
fifty five year old, you know, I like to think
that I'm evolving and that it just doesn't matter. Or
when I see myself on the show and there's something
that I recognize, I try to like look at it

(05:03):
with compassion and give myself compassion and all of these
things that I've learned in therapy, and all of that
is great in theory, it's harder in practice. So it's
some of this is so thrilling. We both know that
some of this is like the greatest adventure in other
parts of it are hard. But I do think that
it's it's like an opportunity. I'm trying to tell myself

(05:23):
that it's like an opportunity. When I see people saying
mean things about me online, like, that's a great opportunity
for me to practice being fifty five. Yeah, and practice
like I don't give shit, yeah, and practice not being
addicted to social media.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Right.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
I try to Also it's a good lesson in how
turning your phone off or stepping away from social media
can change your you know, perspective and like help you
feel better and more presence. It is hard, though, but
all right, I think we are ready for our guests.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Oh can I.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, we have two minutes till she comes in, But
I want to tell everybody about her because not everybody
loves her the way that we do.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
I mean they should, but they may not know her that.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
They don't they don't know her nor I didn't.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Mean it like that, like, of course to know her
is to love her. But mayan biolac. Where do I start?

Speaker 1 (06:18):
She has had the most incredible acting career. So she
was in her first major movie at twelve, had many
many sickcom roles. But I remember her first, like I said,
in Beaches with Bette Midler, she was phenomenal. Then she
was the star of Blossom, and then the star of
Big Bang Theory and movies.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
She hosted Jeopardy and she's remained.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
A start, which is so rare, right well, And for
those of you that are too young or just never
watched Blossom, it's interesting to me because her character on
it was so was like this young girl, but she
was like so her own person at that time, right,
Like didn't she have like the hair was.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Like yeah, and she wore the hat hats like yes
and flowers.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
She was sort of this, uh you know, she wasn't
cut from the same cloth. She was like a little different,
a little eccentric, and it was so cool.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, it was so cool.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
But then you think about it, like she's this big
a list star. I consider her an a list star,
but like, at the core, she's a middle aged woman,
a mom Jewish daughter of Eastern European immigrants, like just
like us, you know, but she's she's also really brilliant.
She's prioritized education throughout her career. She holds a PhD

(07:35):
in neuroscience from UCLA. She's an advocate for mental health,
and she really doesn't slow down. So I'm really really
excited to talk to her.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
I just want to like pick her brain. I just
want to like know how she does coming miyamolic, Like
what was that like? And how do I get there?
Like what was life like? Yeah, I'm so excited. I
think she's here. Okay, Hi, how are you good? We're
going to try not to fangirl out. I got a

(08:07):
little of that going on. I know Jackie does too.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
I can just stop. Hi, thank you so much for
being on. We're so honored to have you here.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
We certainly are.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I love what's going on where you're sitting. Where is that?

Speaker 4 (08:20):
It's so this is my this is my house, this
is my ridiculous like we call it the library. It's
just a wall of books, right, Yeah, And I just
live in like a weird hundred year old farmhouse, and
I'm also wearing overalls, which I realize is really stupid.
It's really not.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's really so perfect that I can't stand it. It's
just like the whole visual right now is just this.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Is really perfect. Yes, it is.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
We were talking about before you came on, even like
going back to Blossom and how you played this character
that was not like the traditional how old is Blossom?
What was the character?

Speaker 4 (08:56):
I was fourteenth, I was fourteen to nineteen, so yeah,
it was like about the high school. Yeah, but it
was like this.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
It was this girl that was cool and different and
like when nobody was maybe a lot of times now
I feel like nobody still is. But she had this
thing about her and it was, you know, she was
left of center and the best possible way, and so
which just I was always left of center, not always
in the best possible way, but whatever, but it's just

(09:23):
it's it was inspiring even back then. And Jackie is.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, well, you know, we could probably talk about all
your old roles all day. I could talk about beaches
all day, but you know, our podcast really has a
focus on middle aged women and what really brings us
happiness and enjoy at this age. And you've been doing
this NonStop since childhood. So I'm wondering to start if
your your definition of success has that changed for you

(09:49):
over the years and in middle age.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, I mean, you know, when I think back, you know,
to my blossom years, which, like I said, I was
fourteen to nineteen, I'm sorry if that makes everybody feel old.
I'm forty eight now.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
No, wow, that makes me feel old, but sorry.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
No, I mean I think that, you know, at that time,
you know, I had I had started acting when I
was eleven, and I know that sounds really young, and
it is very young, but I was considered like a
late bloomer in the industry because most child actors or
teen actors had been acting since they were like two
or three. So I always felt like I was one
step behind, and I didn't really know how to do it,

(10:28):
and I didn't really understand how to navigate the business.
So I always felt kind of different even in terms
of like understanding success. But you know, I went to
college after Blossom ended, and I come from an immigrant family.
My grandparents are immigrants from Eastern Europe, and so you know,
success was like surviving in America, like that was still
what it sort of felt like, was like go to college,

(10:50):
like girls can go to.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
College, you know, yeah, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
Like right, like for my grandparents that was like lucky
you you get like actually not have to get married
at sixteen, you know. So I think for me, academic
success was really important. I really liked being sort of
appreciated and I'm sure you both you know, can relate
to like not just what I can offer you, but

(11:15):
like who I am and what you know, what my
brain does and how I feel about things. So that
was kind of like college. And then I became a mom.
You know, I had my first son in grad school.
The concept of like success as a mom, Like I
was kind of a mom at the I'd say more
of the beginning stages of a lot of the competitiveness
that we now see is like so so much pressure

(11:36):
on women to like do it right and like is
your kid achieving what they should and all this stuff.
So for me, like the success notion as a parent
has been the most intimidating of all, like more than
being on Jeopardy, more than you know, trying to get
Emmy nominations on the Big Bang Theory. Like more than
any of that is like, you know, what do my
kids say about me? Right? Like what kind of people

(11:58):
are they? And minor eighteen and fifteen? Now, so my.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Head is racing with when we're gonna book episode the
second episode for this because I'm already like getting like
I'm getting like anxious because I want to talk to you.
There's so much just about that about the kid thing, right,
and what it's like to be someone who is famous
and has been since you know, you were a kid,
raising kids, and how does that affect all of that?

(12:23):
There's like I just I just want to come over
and spend the night and and.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
I'm sure my kids would have a lot to talk.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
To you about.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
I will bring mine and believe me, you've been a
working actress. You're still a working actress now in your forties,
And how does it feel different for you? Obviously it's
different from when you were acting as a kid, but

(12:52):
the pressure of it all, like as a grown woman
as opposed to an adolescent and even a young woman,
how does.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
It feel the pressure?

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, you know, I noticed the biggest difference when I
started on Big Bang Theory, you know, I had a
toddler and basically an infant, and I remember at that time,
you know, I was already let's say I was thirty three,
thirty four or something like that, and I already noticed
a huge difference because I had a different life to
go home to, and I think, like, before you're a mom,

(13:22):
like so much is about like what am I offering
the world and what are they seeing of me? And
you've got oodles of time to spend them yourself. But
you know, once I kind of had to orient you know,
as a mom. It was kind of like everything at
work was like whatever happens is fine, Like I don't
need to be the star of every scene. I don't
need to Like if I have one line this week's episode, great,

(13:43):
that's more time to nap in my dressing room. You know.
Whereas when I was younger, it was like it was
more competitive, and I felt that competition more wow. But
you know, I think in that sense, like you know,
becoming a parent, like it really kind of brings you
to your knees, right, it really sobers you up.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Do you think other actors feel that way? Like somebody
who's not an actor. I feel more that way. I
care less about things than I used to things. It
seems so important, right, But do you feel like right,
because I feel like maybe you are unique in that
experience in terms of being an actor celebrity, like you
still want as many lines as you can get. But

(14:19):
maybe I'm right.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean I think, Look, I think there's going
to be variability. Of course, like I can't speak for
all actors, but I also know that, you know, people
parent all sorts of different ways, and I think if
you have a lot of help, you know, it's distributed differently,
whereas like it was kind of just me and my husband,
you know, so it was kind of like I was
rushing home to sort of like do stuff and make

(14:42):
food and you know, all the things, which you know,
I think that's also a very interesting statistic that, like,
you know, in the majority of homes where women are
the primary breadwinner, they often are still responsible for like housecare, childcare,
you know, all those things. So that discrepancy also weighs
differently on people, depending on you know, how they parent.
But yeah, I think for me, also, like I had

(15:02):
spent twelve years kind of away from the industry, and
I think that was helpful for me. I think it felt,
it felt comfortable. You know. Look, academia is also like
a lot of ego, a lot of pressure on women
different than then, you know, so it's not like I was, like,
you know, sitting on a beach for twelve years, but
it's very different, you know, than the pressures of the industry.
And look, the other thing is that when I was

(15:23):
on Blossom, there was no social media. There was no
like like public relations pr machine, like telling you know,
especially young women what we should look like or who
we should wear. You know, that didn't exist. And when
I was on Big Bank Theory, it was like a
whole new world, you know, it was a whole new
world of being a public person and like Papa Razzi

(15:44):
and you know, things like that. So that was also
a big difference, which I think for me as kind
of an introvert who lives my life as an extrovert,
that was also really like a surprising shift. And I was,
you know, glad to have kind of some normalcy at home,
even if normalcy meant life like you know, sitting on
the floor, like you know, reading two small people and
making you know, beans and Rice for dinner.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Can I ask you've been going for so long?

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Do you ever feel like so we're both on a
reality show and like even though that you watched it now,
don't tell me I would put that as zero person.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
That's kind just like blow my whole picture.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
But you know, even for for us, like sometimes I
get this feeling of like it would be nice to
not be so public, like I can I can't imagine
your life.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Do you do you ever feel that like this draw
to live a private life?

Speaker 4 (16:39):
Yeah, I mean I think. Look, I think the two
of you, you know, have a lot that you could
sort of, you know, teach me about this because the line, well,
but the line between reality and you know, like the
masks that we wear, you know, even on a reality show,
like even that like that's not I mean, it's you.
And it's very different for me, like I really got

(16:59):
to like put on a character and then take it off,
you know, for me, like there was there was more
of a sense of control or choice you know, around
like who's in my space and who knows all those things? So,
you know, I think that and look, there's a reason
that people enjoy you know, reality television is because it's

(17:20):
a it's a form of media that people want to
understand and you are, You're getting a totally different perspective.
But yeah, I mean I sometimes have that fantasy and look,
being in grad school and being away from the industry
was a little bit of a taste of that, like
what if no one cares? What if I don't know
what size bra I wear because I haven't worn one
in so long and I'm just wearing shelfzanks, you know,

(17:41):
Like it was a little bit of like I don't
even know, Like when I did What Not to Wear,
you know, which was like this makeover show, right, I
literally had no idea what size I was because I
was just like wearing the same thing for years that
like were my mom cloths. Right. There's a certain kind
of safety to that, and I think, you know, I
think any time we think we know what we want,

(18:02):
like I'm going to be a public person, I'm gonna
get famous, like that's gonna be my life, there's always
this kind of like shadow side of it of like,
oh my gosh, can I put the genie back in
the bottle? You know? What did I open up? What
did I reveal of myself? And do I have to
keep it going. And I think that's really the challenge
and the difference between you know, kind of reality and
you know, sort of like the sitcom world, right like

(18:25):
yours is an ongoing existence, right and people know you.
Whereas for me, like I can be like I don't
have a job right now, and my life is you know,
very different, and I'm like being a mom, you know
for most of my life and nobody cares that I'm in.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Overalls a time where it's encroached and it's bled into
your personal life.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
I think my kids would probably say, so, you know,
they didn't watch me on TV, and I've pretty much
kept them out of even like social media stuff, Like
there's stuff from when they're younger, and I wrote a
book about ranting, and you know, their dad and I
talked about like what pictures are we comfortable with? But
you know, once they got older, I tried to be
really really careful. But even now, you know, I have

(19:09):
a podcast it's called mym Bilet's Breakdown, and it's about
mental health and wellness. So I have to be really
I have to be really careful to not you know,
I mean, I want to talk about my kids all
the time, they're like the best source of information for
like funny things, embarrassing things. So for me, it's been
you know, trying to maintain some sort of privacy for them.
But you know, like my older son looks a lot

(19:29):
like me, and I feel like whoops, you know, like
just like where's my face? Everywhere he goes? And and
you know that carries with it its own kind of weight,
you know, because everything I do then, you know, anything
I post or anything I say about you know, being Jewish, right,
like that then impacts like everything starts, you know, everything
starts mixing. And yeah, that that can be scary. Like

(19:53):
the the social media and the public consumption machine that
we are all part of, it can really it can
be used for good, and it can also be used
in ways that are scary to us and a lot
of people. And I'm sure you get this, like well
what do you expect? That's what you get?

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Like you don't get signed up for that far right.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
Exactly, And like that's and I know it's like a
first world problem to be like, but I'm not sure.
But I think like we're all humans with autonomy, and
especially as women, I think that people are like that's
what you get because like you're a woman and we
get to just like love you know, knowing everything about
your life and we own you. Right, That's like women

(20:31):
have a long history of not getting to have agency.
So anytime a woman wants to have agency and be
like enough that needs to be respected.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
That's interesting, I think. And I just the part about
being a Jewish woman. Yeah, who is specifically right now, right,
who is advocating for Jewish causes and Israeli causes? Jackie
and I Jen and I are well, we're two of
very few Bravo stars who are doing and we've both

(21:00):
been really outspoken, and boy do we get destroyed on
social media. And also I've struggled with and like I
am I going far enough? So I post, I put
a lot in my stories right, and in terms of
posting into my feed, I've now finally understand Now I
understand the difference between those two things. But I'm more

(21:21):
I'm reluctant to do that, and then I'm I have
a lot of guilt about that, but it becomes something
that I'm afraid of, you know. It's like, right, and
not just the comments, I mean, people are getting crazier
and crazier, and so you also.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Want to protect your children, you know, like I have
four little Jewish children, and if I'm getting all this hate,
I don't want it to come back on them.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
What has your experience been.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Like, you know, it's a really really fascinating time in history,
and you know, I think that you know, for many
of us raised with like, you know, the memories of
the recent past, like hovering, it doesn't feel great, you know.

(22:05):
You know, for a long time, I would always say like, oh,
my grandparents are so paranoid, Like they're so paranoid. And
you know, after October seventh, I think a lot of
people were like, oh, you know, maybe this is more complicated,
and not just the attacks of October seventh, but the
global response to October seventh. You know, my feeling is
when the Ayatola of Iran is praising you know, protests

(22:29):
like that's the wrong side of history. Like I'm just
going to be really, you know, blunt about it. You know,
we're seeing the role that that Iran, that Katar have,
you know, in funding a lot of what's going on
in our country. And you know the fact that there
are Americans being held hostage by Hamas that that should
outrage everyone who who values any you know, any democratic principles.

(22:52):
And I have a lot of problems with the Israeli government,
as do a lot of Israelis, as do a lot
of Jews, as do a lot of non Jews. That's
not what this is about. You know, when whoever is
making lists of Jews, that doesn't go well. We saw
what happened when you make lists of Jews and ask
to boycott their businesses. So that's really the time that
we're living in. And also, you know, I have a

(23:14):
son going to college in the fall, and like he
wants to be hopeful about his life. He doesn't want
his whole life to be about people not liking him,
meaning as a Jewish person. But it's a very it's
a very strange time, you know, to be to be
a Jewish person. And yeah, I'm I'm never going to

(23:34):
back down in talking about the humanitarian rights of Palestinians.
I've been talking about it for decades. It's something I
believe strongly in. And also, separate from that, I'm never
going to stop talking about what's happening on a global
scale to Jews and the fact that Americans among others,
are being held hostage, you know, by Hamas. So I'm

(23:55):
I'm pretty clear about it, Like I feel pretty clear,
Like I said that, I don't want to be on
the side of the Ayatola praising what I'm doing. So
you know, uh, for me, there's there's not a lack
of clarity there, but the sort of discourse and the
sort of like progressive, you know, discourse, which I thought
I was a left wing, bleeding heart liberal, but like

(24:17):
everything is like can.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
You believe this? I say the same thing all the
time that happen.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I mean, are you kidding me?

Speaker 4 (24:24):
I am?

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I am the I am. I'm not far left, I
can tell you that. And I thought that I.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
Was, and I ate okay, And yeah, it's been it's
been an interesting year. It's been a very interesting year.
And you know, and what I what I tell my kids,
and you know, a huge proportion, like most of my
family does live in Israel, on both sides of every
divide and every line, you know, And I will always
advocate for peace. I will always advocate for innocent people

(24:55):
not dying, like that is always going to be the
platform that I stand by. And also I'm always going
to advocate that Jewish people have a right to a
homeland that they can live in safely. And that's the
definition of Zionism. The fact that people have turned to
sport Zionism into like something that it's not like, that's
literally the definition. And you that has nothing to do

(25:16):
with my politics. It has nothing to do with a
one state solution, a two state solution that is like,
this is a definitional problem. And you know, a lot
of the comments that we see, they are their bots,
like they've been purchased. So you know, it's also like
we can't get too caught up in that. And I
have to believe that, you know, I have to believe
that the right side of history will prevail. And you know,

(25:37):
I don't know what's going to happen with the elections,
who knows. I just hope that like the democratic principles
of freedom, liberty and the pursuit of peace and justice
is what continues to govern. You know, everybody's hearts in line.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Amen's sister.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
You know, I also have clarity, of course on what
my purpose is.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
But I do sometimes feel very alone as a.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Jewish public figure, you know, and our public figure don't
is nothing compared to your eyes. But I do feel
like one in a million, you know, and like Novo
probably even less than that, right nobody.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
Well, yeah, but there's there's also there's been some I mean,
like Ben Stiller recently wrote an opinion piece for Time Magazine,
which if you haven't seen that, you absolutely should. It
is beautiful and it really like it deals with both sides.
And I was like, that's really, like, you know, that
is what's fuck for a you know, a movie actor,
a movie director to to kind of come out and
say exactly what you're saying, like we shouldn't feel alone

(26:30):
in this, and so like there are there are people
who are speaking up, but you know, you know why
a lot of people don't want to speak up. And
I think that's true of a lot of causes. And
this is sort of the kind of dangerous part, right
of being a public person, being on social media, because
you can say this about a lot of different causes.
Like I'd like to believe there can just be entertainment,

(26:51):
but I think especially for you know, for reality, people
are really getting to know the real you, right, And
so that's there's not really a.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
There Well, I mean, that's exactly what I struggle with
and I think that again, it angers me that I
I am afraid sometimes, but it's just my truth. I
just am. But I still I do a lot of posting,
and we both do a lot of advocating. But there's
also I have this pervasive feeling that it doesn't matter
what I say because just like in our country right now,

(27:22):
the division is the division and no one cares. I
picked this side and actually have been on our show too,
but whatever, but I picked this side and nothing you
can say will dissuade me.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
And that's so I think that's hardy. Yeah, well that's
what's disheartening. And I think that's also you know, what's
lost from a lot of people's viewing of let's say,
you know, reality or understanding celebrity is that there's no
nuance anymore. And like the nuance is the subtlety, it's
the complexity, it's the I can believe that two people
are suffering at once. I don't have to choose, right, Like,

(27:54):
those are subtle things that really get lost if you
only have a certain number of characters, or if you
only have seconds. And you know, the hard thing about
being a parent these days is trying to maintain anybody's
attention for longer than like six seconds or ten minutes, right,
And I think that's part of what's going on, is
we're really we're being swallowed up by this culture of
like instant information. Nobody's fact checking anything, like one quote

(28:19):
gets lifted, and that's actually not the way that like
human beings are I think designed to interact. We're supposed
to talk to people face to face, like, we're not
supposed to hide behind a screen and say mean things
about like how ugly someone is. Right, Like, that's not
how I was like made to actually interact as a human,
and that doesn't change in one generation. You don't get

(28:39):
to say like, oh, well, this is how people interact,
Like not really, it's actually not normal. And that's what
I have to remind my kids, Like, just because you
see something on social media that actually doesn't believe, like,
it doesn't mean that it's true. That's just what someone
put down.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
So social media is relatively new in our lives and
in terms of three of us. But do you feel
more equipped, Like I don't know what kind of you know,
criticism you got, whether it was in some tabloid magazine
back in the day right as opposed to now where
it's right on your phone, but dealing with it at

(29:23):
your age, at my age, at Jackie's age, how is
it different for you or does it still just cut
like it used to?

Speaker 4 (29:31):
Yeah? Look, I'm what they call a highly sensitive person,
so you know, for me, like that's and that means
that also, like news impacts me in ways that can
really help my mental health take a dive. You know.
It's like literally, I'm just I'm very I'm deeply affected
by things and I feel, you know, I've been told
my whole life like you're too sensitive. Like, yeah, I'm

(29:51):
really really sensitive. So what that means is like some
people they can let it wash off their back better.
I really don't do well with that. And I finally
I had to start like significantly limiting the amount that
I was on social media because I'll be honest, I
will compare in despair, I'll compare myself to every single
thing that I see, and it leads me down.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
This crazy crazy.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
We look at you and it's like you're incomparable, you know,
like it's just deeply, deeply upset.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
Like I'll be like, why don't my lashes look like that?
Like I'm I become an eleven year like I become
like your average left in your team athro where I'm
like I want that. Why is it like this? And
that's just kind of but that's how my brain works
when I walk around, you know, in the street. So
for me, social media is just such it's like it
exacerbates it. It's like here it is times a million, jillion,

(30:44):
and the fact is like I'm that kind of person.
And you know, you'll sometimes hear you know, people I've
heard these, like when people talk about like being in
SCULPTEP programs that their personality is that like a million
comments could be positive. I'm going to focus on the
one that wasn't right, and I'm gonna and like and
if I see it, it's like it's true and I'm like,

(31:06):
what is that? And I'm especially like that with like
the male gaze, right like if a guy says this,
or if a guy like, I don't know what that is.
It's like DNA, it's environment, it's all the things. So
I really have to stay away from it. I'm not
I'm not cut out for it.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
I'm not happy about it for you, but I'm happy
that to share it with you because if you're feeling
that way, Yeah, I was in I was at Fire
Island this past weekend for the fourth of July and
I went to the Pines. I don't know if you
know a Fire Island at all, but it's like a
predominantly gay area and for a performance that one of
the other housewives was doing. And I'm walking into the
place and all of these gay men are shouting my

(31:44):
name and there it's it's oh.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
My god, Jenfesl Jenfesler.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
And I went over and it was like the most warm, wonderful,
welcoming thing. And then I heard someone shout, Jenfesler is
an asshole. I know.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
That was right, that's all.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yeah, that was And how house I should be pasted it.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
I'm fifty five, but if my embiolic is not, then
I'm okay with it. Can I ask you about the
mental health piece that you said. You said you have
your amazing podcast, and have you struggled with a lot
of mental health issues, because Jen and I are very
open about our mental health struggles.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah, I mean I've been, you know, honestly, we started
our podcast, I started with my partner Jonathan Cohen, and
we started it. I'd just like to mention the name
Cohen because I think it's important. I'm like, I always
wanted to know a Cohen, like instantly. So we started it,
you know, right when COVID happened, because you know, here
I was this person with like, you know, decades of

(32:41):
therapy under my belt, like I've been on this medication,
I've tried this, like I've been told to meditate, I
do yoga, And when COVID happened, it was like I
went back to square one, you know, like not being
able to sleep, eating, disturbed, and I'm thinking what about
people who don't have decades of experience and a vocabulary
what they're feeling. And I would talk to beeople who
were like, I'm having trouble sleeping and I can't stop

(33:03):
thinking about what might have is like, oh, you don't
know what anxiety is, Like that's what anxiety is. So
we started this podcast really to try and democratize, you know,
just the information of like do you know the difference
between anxiety and depression? Do you know what a panic
attack is versus an anxiety attack? Like what's the information?
Because I mean, honestly, in this country, unless you have
a lot of money. You really don't have free access,

(33:25):
you know, meaning open access to the mental health care
that everybody deserves as a human right. So we started
it as this sort of way to just like teach
people basic terms, and you know what, my degrees in neuroscience,
and I figured I can speak to that stuff. And
what ended up happening is we started talking to you know, celebrities,
experts like all these people, and the same kind of
things kept sort of like circling around, is that we

(33:48):
as humans have this tendency to perseverate. Everyone comes from
some sort of challenge or obstacle. Many of us experienced trauma,
many many women have experienced sexual abuse or sexual assault
by the time they hit eighteen, and once you then
go into adulthood with this kind of you know, history,
which we all have some level of it, life can

(34:11):
be really challenging. And add to it social pressures, add
to it, financial challenges, you know, add to it all
of the things. It's very hard to be a human.
And so a lot of what we talk about is
sort of the intersection of finding something greater than yourself
and science, right, so there's actually like a scientific basis
to spirituality. And not just as like I like to

(34:32):
hang crystals from my window, but what does it mean
to like, what does it mean to meditate? What happens
in your brain when you actually, you know, focus in.
And what we've found is that some of the most
famous people, I mean, we've had Matthew McConaughey on, We've
had Sarah Silverman, and we've had like all these incredible
you know, comedians and performers, often at the height of
their success was when imposter syndrome, you know, started rearing

(34:55):
its head. And so many people, you know, don't know
that even the most famous people, the most successful people struggle.
And so that's what our podcast is seeking to sort
of bring out and what works for some people what
doesn't work for others. I'm not a person that's like
I've figured it out, so I have a podcast to
explain it to everybody. I'm still struggling. You know, I
grew up in a very very tumultuous house. Many of

(35:18):
us grow up in addiction and with abuse in their
homes and we weren't told to talk about it. It's
just what normal was. And you didn't talk about it
when you left that front door, right that's not seeming
to make for a healthy society. We have to talk
about it, we have to destigmatize it, and we have
to talk about what works and what doesn't. And for
some people it's medication, and for some people it's meditation.

(35:40):
For some people it's something in between some of.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Us both in all. Yeah, right, right, right?

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Do you find that meditation has really helped you?

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Because I still, you know, I speak to my therapist
every week, and I suffered.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
From an eating disorder for twenty years.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
I was anarexic for twenty years, and that was a
huge mental mental health issue for me. My brain just
swam with it, reasons why I was terrified of gaining
any weight or eating. And my therapist always tells me
that I should take one minute every day and just
get started with meditation. And I still it's been years,
and I still every morning week up and I'm like today,
I'll take that one minute, and I don't one minute.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
I know, I have the same discussions.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Yeah, I mean the thing about the thing about me,
I'm a very you know, I like to say I'm
a slow learner. And you know, we used to say
like I'm an old soul and someone once said to
me that just means you're stubborn. You know, it's like
taking you a long time to sort of like get
to what you actually need to do. I've gone in

(36:39):
and out of a more diligent meditation practice. But what
we know about kind of all of the addictions is
that that's a God shaped hole, right, and we'll fill
that God shaped hole. You can fill it with drugs,
you can fill it with alcohol, you can fill it
with sex, you can fill it with obsession about food.
And I'm really an expert at like how long can
I go without eating? Was how my life you know,

(37:01):
went for for many years until I sort of started
balancing it out. But what that is is it's a
it's a thing that meditation starts filling that hole for.
And what it is is it lowers our anxiety. It
helps our brain start producing chemicals that actually can support
you know, a healthier framework throughout our day. So it's

(37:22):
something we talk about a lot. You know, so many
people have eating disorders or disordered eating right, and a
lot of people are also in denial about that stuff.
You know, people feel like I'm fine, just leave me alone.
But you know, we talk to a lot of people,
and I hope people will you know, check out our
podcast and you can also you know, search for for
any particular diagnosis. We've done many episodes on many of them.

(37:44):
We have hundreds of episodes we've done now. But for me,
it really is about, like I said, what we call
like that god shaped hole, and meditation is supposed to
bring that down.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
I love that. I mean it always is right, It
always feels like just trying to fill the whole, fill
the whole, fill the hole in the there is.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Yeah, I'll fill it with work. It's my favorite drug.
Like my favorite drug is work?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Really me too, that's interesting not me, not me at all.
I way for food, alcohol to work now.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
But I feel it with work because like you said before,
you said, what am I giving to the world?

Speaker 3 (38:15):
How are people perceiving me?

Speaker 1 (38:16):
That still runs through my brain like if I stop,
are people going to think that I failed?

Speaker 4 (38:23):
Yeah? Yeahs. And that's like to me, like fame, you know,
tries to fill that God shape right like just like
love me and look what I can offer. And and
the fact is like that that's whyet place that meditation
brings you to, right, that quiet place that meditation can
bring you to is that notion of like what is
it like to not attach to every thought and every

(38:43):
ruminating thought and every obsession because I'll hold on to it.
I could just have like a tape running all day
and that's kind of what it's like. And for me
with disordered eating, like I would fill it with like
what am I going to eat? What am I not
going to eat? Is this going to make me feel full?
Is it's going to make you look fat? Right? Like,
that's the kind of script and when you take that away,
what's gonna fill it? Right? And meditation is literally it's

(39:05):
a practice for me in learning how not to attach
to every single thought that comes into my head because
I mean, I know it sounds weird to say, but
like I can't trust my thoughts. They're not trust me
because a lot of times it's a very mean voice
in there, you know, saying you didn't do this, you're
not this enough, or why aren't you more like that person?
Which is why again for me, increasing meditation, decreasing social

(39:28):
media like has to happen for me to also not
like snap at my kids or get excessively frustrated that
someone didn't empty the dishwasher. When I ask, right, because
like that's what makes that anxiety keep rising. Meditation is literally,
I mean it's a muscle. It's like over time your
brain starts to chill the f out.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
My psychiatrist, for some reason, this really resonated with me.
She told me a while back, and I think of
it all the time that if you look at I
don't know about look at life, but let's say that
there's this pen right, and then sometimes you are starring
on Blossom, or you're starring in Beaches, or you're the
hosting Jeopardy, right, and you're up here and you're like
at the top, right, and you still have this well

(40:18):
maybe imposter syndrome, but also that fear of falling, of
not being on top, and then you're down here, right,
So something happens and you actually feel like you are
on the bottom, and you become just completely obsessed with
the rise? Right, how do I get back up? And
she always says, so if it's a line like this,
where you want to live is out here in dignity,
like in this circle where you know that none of

(40:39):
this is real.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Well, none of it defines you, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
That none of it right, that none of it defines
you and how do you get there? How do you
get to the dignity? She always says, it's by coming
back to yourself. It's by taking that time every day,
and she always wants me to do it in the morning.
And I still like you, Jack, I just don't always
follow through, but just to come back to the breathing
and back to your body.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
And so are you?

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Are you? Are you?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Did you find that your twelve year hiatus were you
calmer not being in the public eye?

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Do you you know?

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Your pace is unbelievable between your podcasts, I'm raising your
kids and starring on everything?

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Do you ever? Do you do you have the like
the can you keep going at that pace?

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Do you want to?

Speaker 4 (41:25):
I mean, you know, I think one of the things
that we also talk about on the podcast, which comes
up a lot, is you Know, the Body Keeps the Score,
which is also a book by bessel Vandercock and it's
about trauma. But Gabor Matte also talked about this on
our podcast. You Know the body will start giving out.
And I was diagnosed with my first autoimmune condition at

(41:45):
twenty three, and I was a completely healthy, you know,
young person at the height of my like fitness and
my thyroid gave out. I have grave disease, which is
an overactive thyroid. Most people have an underactive thyroid. But anyway,
you know, that was that was of my first time
that I think the body was talking. But back then,
and it was the nineties, we didn't know. No one

(42:08):
told me this is what's happening with your adrenals, like
your adrenal glands are taxed. No one told me there's
a specific way of eating that you need to adopt.
There's a specific specific way of sleeping that will help
support your body. And you know, the notion for me
has been my body usually will indicate when it's too much,

(42:30):
and what I'll do is I'll have a period of
like retreating and having quiet time, and then I forget
because I'm stubborn and I'm a very very fast forgetter,
and I'll gear up again and then something will happen.
You know, I've had vocal cord surgery, like I've had
all these things of my body saying like we're tired, right,
And so the notion is also as women especially, it's

(42:51):
like do it all, you can do it all. And
I was raised by feminists, right, like you can be
president of the United States, but like the fact is,
you know, at this point in my life, like I
need to slow down and my body can't do the
same things that it used to, you know, like the
fact that like I have to wear glasses and like
my hearing is definitely going you know, like I'm not
as swift as I used to be, and that's okay.

(43:13):
And there's so much conversation surrounding even like plastic surgery,
like what do we want to look? Like what's important?
And what is our society value? And what I love
what your psychiatrist said, like where's the place of dignity?
It's outside of all of that, And for so many
people that comes from like doing shrooms or iahuascar, Right,
But you can also get there with meditation. And what

(43:34):
that is is there's a still small voice, right that
actually is the same It's the same Jennifer, and it's
the same Jackie that existed when you were two, when
you were four. Right. We had an episode with Michael
Singer which I highly recommend of our podcast, and it's
like the person who was you when you looked in
the mirror when you were four, that's the same person
in there, there's that voice that's you, right, and that's

(43:57):
independent of what you look like. And if you you know,
have an autoimmune condition, if you're a mom, if you're working, like,
that's the you that meditation is trying to get you
in touch with. And guess what. That stimulates chemicals in
your brain that can combat depression and anxiety, like it's
your natural you know, it's your natural system for regulating

(44:20):
and in theory, when we get in touch with that,
we place less emphasis than on what do I look like?
What do people think of me? You know, we get
to say, like, what do I need to do today?
What does real self care look like? It's fun to
go to the spa, right, but what does self care
look like of I don't have anything to do. I'm
going to take care of myself and my kids today, right.

(44:43):
Do you think many of us have the space to
do that? Not many?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So I've tried to I've tried to incorporate all of
this into becoming two years ago. I'm I'm not a
famous person, but I'm on a reality show. But it
comes with certain challenges and always you know, wanting more,
wanting more, and then being afraid of more and all
of that. But now that you have been through years

(45:07):
of self reflection in therapy and whatever it is, do
you still want the fame? Is it just the acting?
Is it that the article?

Speaker 4 (45:15):
Right?

Speaker 3 (45:15):
What is fulfilling you think now with this career?

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Yeah, I mean, this is this is a great question.
And you know, I was on Jeopardy for two years,
which you know ended just a couple months after October seventh,
so it was like really an intense time. You know,
there are things that I definitely want to create, you know,
as a I mean, I directed a movie it's called

(45:39):
As They Made Us with Candice Bergen and Dustin Hoffman
and Simon Helberg and Diana Agron. It came out a
couple of years ago, and I loved directing. I wrote
the screenplay and I was like, gosh, I've been bossy
my whole life and it finally paid off. Like I
didn't need to be mean and bossy, But like, I
directed a movie, and you know, I recently did get
to act in a Jim Jarmush movie with Adam Driver

(46:00):
and with Tom Waits, and it was like this incredible experience.
But the fact is, like there's a lot of quietness
right now that I'm really valuing. And I have a
production company and there's you know, content that we'd like
to produce, but I'll be honest, I don't have a
lot of tolerance and patience for a lot of the
drama you know that comes with the industry right now.

(46:22):
And I think that does come from needing to like
focus on my health, focus on getting my first kid
to college, and that being like a really big transition.
But I'll be honest, Like the you know, when you're
used to a dopamine hit, which is really what being
famous is, right or being public, Like when you're used
to that dopamine hit and you step back, it really

(46:43):
is it's kind of a reckoning like what am I worth?
Like when that applause stops, like what happens next? So
I think that's sort of like the season that I'm
in right now, and I think that it does it
coincides with a huge, you know, global event for the
Jewish people, and I think for you know, everybody's understanding

(47:05):
of tolerance right now. And so yeah, it's been kind
of a quiet time and I'm really enjoying. You know,
my my younger son's been homeschooled his whole life, and
he's fifteen and he's going to be finally starting in
regular school. So that's a huge transition. So like a
lot of transitions happening, I definitely have another book in me,

(47:26):
but for me, the podcast is really where I've been
focusing most of my attention. And as I'm sure you
both understand, like it's rewarding having people gain information from
what you know I've experienced and be open to sort
of you know, constantly learning, like I've got a lot
to learn. I don't have it all figured out, and
I still struggle with like why am I not meditating

(47:48):
every day when I know that I'm supposed to. So
for me, that's like part of the journey, and that's
what sort of you know, the you know, the breakdown
has been for me and for Jonathan. We get to
constantly we learn, and I hope one day it'll stick.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
No, but I love hearing that even someone like you,
because through our eyes, you are just so unbelievable, and
like for you to say that you're flawed and you're insecure,
sometimes it's just it makes me feel better knowing that
it's not just like something that like the regular folk
you know and have.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
I think also like like in terms of in our listeners,
you know, not all of them are public figures. I
would think actually most are not. But it's still that draw.
You know, as you're getting older, things are changing, they
have to, and it's going to whether it's your looks,
whether it's situationally.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
Reaching towards the floor. I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
I can't with that, don't, but but there's stuff that
you have to do. All of that's happening. And even
like like in the Fame game or you know, you're
when you see it all fading, what then? So I'm
not going to be, let's say, on housewives anymore? Who
am I going to be? If I'm not on face?
Am I?

Speaker 4 (49:00):
What? Am I? Worth? Right?

Speaker 2 (49:01):
It's all kind of right, I feel like.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
I mean, look, the even the conversation around like hormone
replacement therapy, which I mean I'm forty eight, and it
used to be like no one should take hormones. It's
going to kill you to take hormones. And now the
conversation when I talk to younger friends of mine, it's
like everybody's on hormones. So like even learning like what
does it mean to age? I read an article that
they're just going to like stop menopause altogether, and I

(49:24):
was like, well, why didn't they think of that before
I hit it? Because it's not a fun decade, right,
But even that notion of like what should my skin
look like? Oh, you're going to lose elasticity, like forget
about in your lady parts, like on my face? Right,
Like what should aging look like? And I think these
are important conversations, but it's a challenge. It's a challenge

(49:45):
to do it publicly, and it's not just public like
That's where I think social media has made kind of
everyone an influencer. Everyone is a public person, right, Everyone
has the ability to sort of have a public platform,
which means that more of us, and especially young people
and especially young girls, they're having this kind of opportunity,
you know, to see and be seen. But it's just

(50:06):
starting the machine that we're part of even earlier.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, it's scary.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
It's all very terrifying.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
It is. Before we wrap, I do want to thank
you for using your voice for activism, for speaking up
against anti semitism, and for speaking out against you know,
for mental health, like because I think that you know,
I didn't talk about my mental health my entire life
until I was a public person, actually, until I came forward.

(50:32):
I wrote my memoir on my anorexia last year, and
until I really started talking about it, it was all this
big secret and a lot of shame. And so that's
what kept me sick for so long. So thank you
for your podcast because that's so important.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Also, can we be on it?

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Jen is very I want to be here when I
grow up, seriously, like you have to.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
I'm dying.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I'll tell you all of the crazy shit that goes.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
On in here. You'll have many amazing Please have we
could talk about the reality TV and what it does
to your psyche.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
It fries your psyche, it's fascinating. Well, I really I
appreciate also what what both of you do, and especially
you know, as people who have to many of us
a very shiny veneer, you know, like everything looks so
pretty and everything looks like it's really important to also,
you know, find the commonalities. And I think it's a
really beautiful place that that podcasting and that even social

(51:28):
media kind of like brings people together because I think
we need more unity, you know, we need more people
you know, kind of saying I feel it too, and
we don't have to be the same person. And I
think that's even true politically. There's so much divide, you know,
in our country right now. We don't have to be
the same people. But there are so many things that
we have in common that I would like to think
those are connection points.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
So yeah, and it helps, it helps it to be
open and then have it come back to you, you
know too. I've learned because my mother used to say
to me, I was always kind of an open book,
and she's like, Jen, not everybody needs to know everything
about you, okay, and and and really and I have.
I guess there are times I've regretted opening up, you know,
in the way that I do. But the good news

(52:11):
is I find that I connect with people very easily
because of that. And and usually as I'm opening up
whoever i'm you know, whoever I'm with and having a
conversation with will as well, and that's like where like
I feel like the connection happens.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
It's a human connection. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Well, thank you, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Okay, So just get out your calendar and let us
know what day works for you.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Well, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I loved hearing like the commonality, like you said, that's
it's been so important.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
But thank you. I'm honored. Yes, you both are.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I just I just want to hang out.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Yeah, we love you.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Thank you so much. Really nice to talk to you.
And my mother's losing her mind that I'm speaking to
you right now. I'm losing losing her mind her daughters,
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
It's her last name bolck Hi.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
She also knows that, I promise.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
That is really flattering as mine.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Now all right, well, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Wishing you like just continued success. You're amazing.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Thank you, same to you both, and maybe let's all
meditate tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Yes, one minute, starting tomorrow. I'm starting tomorrow. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. Bye. She was adorable, amazing, love her.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I want to hang out with it.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
I know you're really really good at being direct.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Maybe not, maybe.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
I think people like it.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Like I've watched you in action and you just like
you know what I've picked up from you.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
I've started like touching people's.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Hands sometimes when I talk to them, and like only
if I feel like it's like a normal connection, but like.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
You're good at that.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
It's a nice thing to say.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Yeah, like touch sometimes makes the conversation entirely different, Like
I'm not grabbing strangers, you know, but sometimes I'll reach
out and touch someone's hand while I'm talking to them.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Like do I do that? Yeah? You like rub an arm?

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Interesting, you'll touch a hand.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Whatever, we just said it. But I always do find
that it's easier, It's so much easier to connect when
you're actually like tuned into somebody, not just tuned into somebody,
but also open about your own crap, you know what
I mean. And maybe my mom is right occasionally maybe
it's like to a fault, but I don't hide stuff well,

(54:36):
and I actually, going on our show, I was quick
to out myself on you know, stuff that had happened
in my past, like my husband, like our separation, even
on the podcast, talking about my issues with alcohol, and
because always feeling like listen, it's gonna especially on reality TV, right,
it's coming anyway, But it loses its shame that kind

(54:59):
of stuff when you talk about it and then have
you know someone else connecting to what you've been through
and sharing their own stories.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Well, I truly, I mean, it is very true that
secrets die in the light. So yeah, yeah, I always
remind myself of that. But I mean, who's not a
flawed person? And like, you know what I loved is
when she said that she is very deeply affected by things.
I feel like I get a lot of crap for
being so sensitive. I have cried many, many times. I

(55:31):
do not dislike that about myself, and I won't apologize
for that when I am sad.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
I will cry when I'm upset, I will.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Vent when i'm you know, like, I feel emotions very deeply,
and I mote very deeply, and I think that's part
of the human experience. And I feel bad for people
who feel like they have to hide that stuff, right, yeah, right, yeah, anyway,
that was fabulous.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
I love her.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Can I ask you, what do you take from that?
Since the cornerstone of.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
This podcast is how to live your best life in
middle age? Like what truly brings you happiness? Like, what's
our takeaway from that?

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Mine is that she is conscious and consciously working on
living her best life, Like that she's aware choosing that
choosing her podcast right, Like the fact that she it's
centered around mental health, and you know that she's really
taking a look at herself, her life, her attitudes. I

(56:32):
want to be like that. I want to be very
I want to try to be conscious. You know I can't.
I'm not always going to be. Nobody is. But like
talking about the meditating, talking about you know, figuring out
what's real what's not, I want to. I aspire to that. Yeah,
you know, i'd like to. I'll never get there all
the way, I don't think. I think it's almost impossible,
but to spend more time and like it sounds cheesy,

(56:55):
but like my authentic self and not so much time
worrying about the now and all the stuff out there
that really is no bearing on me.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Your own life. I know.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Well, if you figure out what do that, please let
me know. What was my takeaway for that? Even at
like you can be the host of Jeopardy and still
feel insecure and flawed and have imposter syndry and struggle
with mental health issues. You know, I think we put this,
you know, we assume that if you have certain things

(57:25):
in life, that everything is perfect for you. And I
think the lesson the takeaway is that nothing will ever
be perfect. There's never going to be a perfect time,
there's never going to be the perfect time to do
something that you have to be continuously working on yourself
and dealing with you know what life throws at you
and it doesn't stop.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
So yeah, that's my takeaway. But anyway, so good when.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we did.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Yeah, that was fabulous.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Okay, so we will be back with another fabulous episode
next time.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
But I hope you love this and I love.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
You, We love you, and I am Jen Fesler and
case you didn't know, I'm Jackie.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Got near two Jersey Jays and see you next time.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Bye, guys.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
H m hmm