January 30, 2024 • 45 mins
Daryl McGraw, founder of Formerly Inc joins Dr. Harrison to talk about his lived experience in the prison system and what lessons and blessings he's reaped from his journey so far. Daryl shares the "sauce" to his recovery formula, which includes recovery capital, a term he teaches us, and why making consistent deposits gives him the strength he needs to get through trying times.
Check out Daryl's Ted Talk: "Urban Trauma Unchecked is Urban Trauma Untreated": https://www.ted.com/talks/daryl_mcgraw_urban_trauma_unchecked_is_urban_trauma_untreated
Formerly Inc is the first criminal justice reform consulting organization fully staffed by people with lived experience with the criminal justice system. Find them here: https://formerlyinc.org/
Follow Daryl on IG: @harrytubman18
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If you'd like to watch our interviews, you can catch us on YouTube @unaddictionpod.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Enzinga Harrison.
I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.
I am so excited to tell you about my book, Unaddictioned.
Six Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, is
now available from Union Square and Company or wherever books
(00:46):
are sold. Daryl McGraw is the founder of Formerly, Inc,
which supports anyone returning to the community after incarceration or
inpatient addiction treatment. Daryl's personal journey through addiction and incarceration
has prepared him to be a voice and advocate for
those who still find themselves caught in the vicious cycles
(01:06):
of addiction and recidivism. He is a certified addictions counselor,
recovery support specialist and criminal justice professional who has served
as the former Program director for the Yale University Department
of Psychiatry and Director of the Office of Recovery Community
Affairs for the State of Connecticut Department of Mental Health
and Addiction Services. This conversation was so fun from Daryl's
(01:30):
recipe and secret sauce for his magic formula, as well
as at the very end, the most important thing he
wants people with addiction to unlearn.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So welcome, Daryl.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I am so thrilled that you said yes to coming
on the Unaddictioned podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I haven't seen you. It's probably two years now or three.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's been a minute. I think it might be two
or three years. Well, thank you for the m I'm
always going to come through.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I appreciate you coming through.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So un Addiction podcast we created to bring awareness to
Unaddictioned book, which just came out in January ninth, And
the purpose of the book is really to change the
way we think about addiction, which can then change the
way we feel about people who have experienced addiction, which
can change the way that we treat them. And so
(02:20):
the idea is like unlearned what we think we know
that's not right. Undo the stigmas that are killing people,
uncover the conversations that we need to have to start
making a difference.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And so this podcast is a series.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Of conversations with people who have had their own recovery journey,
and we talk about wherever our hearts and souls take us.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Cool cool, am amit?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So with that intro, tell the listeners whatever you want
them to know about Daryl McGrath.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Oh man, Well, we'll see, and thank you for to
invite so many names. I'm a girl, I am a
person what I like to identify as the long term recovery,
which means I haven't used a substance since May seven,
two thousand and seven, you know, So yeah, I'm excited
about that. But that also for me, my journey comes
with that's the last time that I was in the
back of the police car. That's the last time that
(03:19):
you know, because I'm also survivor of police brutality, and
you know, that was also the last time or that
would I entered the prison system, not on my own accord,
where I got to leave when I was ready to leave.
But that's also so my story comes with My recovery
journey comes with the incarceration you know, I spent ten
(03:40):
years of my life in and out of the correctional
system right on what I call the installment plan, which
means that you know, would go in, I would go
in for a few years, come back, and go out
in cycling in and out. So I did that for
about ten years of my life. And when I really
started to pill the onion back and I realized that
addiction was to root cause of pretty much all my
(04:01):
incarcerations in or interaction football enforcement. Every time I seemed
going to get high, I was selling drug. I was
doing something that was addiction related that had me involving
myself with the criminal legal system.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's not an installment plan that we would recommend for anybody, right.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Not by any means now, not at all. No, No,
definitely not that. But you know, nothing was that was
that was That was the journey, right, That was the
thing for me, like cycle and now couldn't get couldn't
get right, come figure out why I had to keep
starting over.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, And so we actually met when I saw you
in this documentary uprooting addiction, and what we spent a
lot of time on in the book on addiction is
looking at the root causes for addiction. So you said,
I noticed that a root cause for my prison installment
(04:54):
plan was addiction. You and I met, and you are
educating us on how you can came to understand the
root causes of your addiction. Are you open to sharing
that with us?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, it's sort of root causes. I mean, like,
so then, I you know, thank you love the platform,
and I love, you know, being here talking about that
because without talking about it, it makes me better, it
makes you, it keeps it greening, as some of us
like to say. You know, so I talk about trauma.
We talk about trauma and a rooting addiction, right, And
(05:28):
one of the root causes for my or one of
the first traumas for me was my dad leaving when
I was six years old, and when he laughed, he
told me I was the man at the house, right,
And I don't want to give away all the good stuff.
So I really want your listeners to go check out
upbringing addiction and then let's chop it up from there.
(05:48):
But really having the just understanding that for a long
time up until like I didn't even know growing up
in the inner city, growing up in like in violent
and vironments, I didn't even really know I was a
trauma survivor. I didn't even know I was like, you know,
because everybody, you know, we like to say it was
the air that we breathe, right, So I didn't even
(06:10):
know that I was even impacted by trauma, right in
my first trauma being my dad leaving. But then growing
up in the hood, if you will, I started to
witness and violence and so on and so forth, and
by the time I was fourteen, I became a perpetrator
of violence, of that same violence that I was witnessing.
And then I got introduced to crack cocaine at you know,
(06:31):
and I had some do to marijuana. I drank drink beer.
I'm old school, so ionna say, I drank fourties, right,
and so you know I did that. But it wasn't
until I was introduced to crack cocaine that I find
something that could actually numb the pain that I was feeling,
which I couldn't even identify the pain that I was feeling.
So crack cocaine did something different than anything else for me,
(06:56):
and it was numbing the pain of what I realized
later in life was the pain of being you know,
my dad abandoned in our family at six years old
and telling me, now, I was a man at a house.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And so we break down kind of like into these
six conversations biological risk, psychological risk, environmental risk, and what
you're talking about we address kind of in the childhood
psychological risk, which is this concept of aces. And so
what you're describing is one of the adverse childhood experiences,
(07:30):
one of the aces, which is losing a parent.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
But then we also.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Talk about which I think is really important, Darryl, and
I saw your YouTube, your TEDx talk on this, Yeah,
so I definitely want you to tell us about the
TEDx talk. We you know, examine the aces in the book,
and the aces are really about what's happening inside your house, right,
And the Philadelphia ass Project now has done a lot
(07:57):
of work on what's happening outside out of the house,
and touches on this concept that you're talking about also,
which is urban trauma.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And so yeah, talk to us about that.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, urban and or community trauma. We're starting to see
a lot of people start to see the impact of
that Philadelphia ASIS project. So you're going to be talking
on soon and that ted talk that I was unfortunately
to do was you know, trauma, trauma unchecked, this trauma untreated, right,
so you know that external like that that you know,
(08:32):
you know I remember growing up and the older people
would say, if he keeps messing, you hit him in
the head with something. Well, today we know that that's
probably not the best I did. That could lead to
those tall second in an course regions, it's and or worse, right,
So we know that that wasn't the best advice. But
the and the impact of like you know, being poor, poverty, food,
(08:54):
food insecurities, all of those things right are are and
we know and I know your listeners know it's important
to acknowledge for someone that just started understanding the trauma
is that it's not the actual event, it's the impact, right,
or our response to that event, right, And that's what
we you know, I had to learn that, right. So
(09:14):
it wasn't the fact that you know, it wasn't my
dad leaving was my response to it, because you know
I grew up in an ad a brother, right, and
if you know you were talking to my brother, his
response to that same event maybe different, or you and
I could witness something. You know, many people had the
unfortunate pleasure of watching George Floyd be murdered right before
our eyes, right, and the response for me, being a
(09:38):
survivor of police brutality, I saw when I saw George
on the ground, I saw myself on the ground. Many
of us saw ourselves on the ground, so we could
we understood that. I internalized that I was traumatized by that.
But somebody else can see the same thing and not
feel or see the same you know, have the same experience.
(09:59):
So it's how we're respond to that, right, So how
we respond to that. And then my also part of
my response to trauma was using substances, right, using crack cocaine,
crack cocaine and marijuana. I always like to say that
I had an intimate relationship with crack cocaine and marijuana, right,
which means it was the only thing that I was
(10:19):
dedicated oil to that I did every single day, no
matter what rain sleepers. Now, I was going to get
my drug choice. So understanding how necessary that was for
me though, I realized that, you know, once I was
able to and this is not for me, right, we're
talking about me for me, but once I was able
to identify that my you know, my dad leaving wasn't me,
(10:45):
that wasn't on me, that was his stuff. And when
he was able to identify that it was this was
the trauma and this is what I was trying to numb.
The substances became it became easier for me to leave
that behind him and try and try to move on
with the life. Like so, you know, when we're working
on with people who you know or on this recovery
(11:05):
journey and who also suffer from some type of trauma,
that trauma and things that I've experienced and things that
happen or things that I witnessed didn't change. Those things
will happen, But how do I live in this life
with those things that have happened to me?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, And when we think about like samsu has the
Trauma Informed Framework, They have the four RS, and one
of the ours is recognizing the signs and symptoms of trauma.
And I think we've come a long way and we
have a long way to go, but recognizing that the
symptoms of trauma do not always look like flashbacks, right.
(11:46):
Sometimes they look like drug use. Sometimes they look like hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
It can look like so many things. But so talk
to us, Daryl. We have this concept in the book
called the Magic Formula, and the magic formula says, if
you know the root causes of the addiction biological, psychological,
(12:07):
and environmental, and environmental is the physical environment, but also
the cultural environment that you grew up in, and then
also those same three biological, psychological, environmental today as an adult,
then you can put together your magic formula for intervening
in whatever addiction.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And this applies beyond addiction.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
But one of the things I'm hoping for for this
podcast is that we hear an infinite number of root
causes of addiction, and then we also hear an infinite
number of pathways to recovery. And maybe somebody hears something
in your path, or maybe they hear something in the
formula you're working today that they think like, oh, I
might try that, or oh that might work for me.
(12:50):
And so can you talk to us about how you
came to understand trauma as the root of your addiction,
and how you came to understand addiction as the root
of your incarceration, and then how you use that information
to set yourself on your recovery path.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Oh wow, Wow, We're talking about a recipe.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
We want all the recipes, Darryl coup of that.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a little sauce. You got
some for the sauce, right, you got some for the sauce.
I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. What
what I'm looking at, what I think about it, and
I break it down into two things. So when I
was when I got arrested the last time, May seven,
two thousand and seven. Right I got arrested, it wasn't
my first time. I had already been assaulted by police.
(13:40):
I was on a quarter of a million dollars bond, incarcerated.
Nothing was going ready, and I was in my cell
and some guy to this day, I don't know what
the guy was came by. I said, man, I got
this book for you to read. And I was like, man,
if I was reading books, I won't even be in prison.
I want to be in jail. I don't want to
read no book. Man, can't you see I'm struggling right now.
(14:00):
He's like, no, no, I want you to read this book.
And so he came back. He slipped the book under
the door, and the book was a purpose shift in
like by Rick Warren. Right, and I'm not showing people
have heard of it before, but I mean like it
was for me this like it was a forty day
spiritual journey. Right, And those people that I've heard of
the book, it's a forty day spiritual journey. It takes
(14:22):
forty days to read it. You read it chapter by chapter.
There's forty chapters. Well, my core day was forty one
days away. And I'm a spiritual person. I'm believing God.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Man.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I love God. I know God loves me because I
would not be here with you today if this was so. Right.
So I'm thinking, oh man, God must send me this book.
So I'm reading this book day by day, writing in
this little book, saying look at me God, because I'm
thinking God's a bondsman. Pace. I'm thinking that kind of
paying attention.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh right, you thank God the bondsman. Yeah yeah, I'm thinking, yeah, Yo.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
God, listen, you see me writing in this book. You
send me, right, So I'm trying to I'm trying to
bond out. I'm keeping a rail, you know me, and
you right, I'm gonna keep a brail. So I'm trying
to bond out with God.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I'm trying to make another I'm trying to make another
deal wouldn't have big got So I'm writing and I'm right,
and you know, I'm writing, like go online and you know.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Then I close the book and I go to sleep.
But by day twenty six, I got to be honest.
I started writing and I couldn't stop. And I just
couldn't stop writing. It's like, you know, oh, I want
to do this. I want to be a better dad.
I want to be a community because when we're in
we're not even a part of the community. I want
my neighbor to know my name. You ain't gonna know
my government. I don't want you to know nothing about me, right,
(15:41):
But then when you make the transition, sure, I want
you to know this is my house. I want the
police to know this is my house case somebody's breaking
in someone something looks odd here, right. So I want
to be connected to my community. I want to be
a coach in my community. I want to be a
good dad. I want to be that. So I started writing,
and I and stop right And then by day forty
(16:02):
I had already felt like two of these notebooks that
they give you in jail. But I already felt like
two of them. And what I called today my five
year plan to successful reentry and recovery, Right, And I
wrote it and it was like, you know, I want
to I like have pie in the sky dreams of
I wanted to be. I want to be a homeowner.
I want to go to college. I want to get
(16:23):
a master's degree. Mind you, I'm still facing all this time,
but I had already had this road map. And you know,
I remember in the beginning that selling saying to God.
I said, Man, God, I really want to go home.
But if it's not your will, man, I'm good because
through that process I had found purpose, right, And I
(16:44):
found purpose, and my purpose was to be here with
you today and others and other places every chance I
get to use my story as a light to guide
others out of darkness. Right. And I believe that you
and I and all of us that are on this
journey are on the underground railroad, right, the modern day
underground railroad, And what our job is to do is
(17:05):
help free others. Right. We go back and we go
back in, whether it be through this podcast or me
going to the prisons, or me in the street, or
me be in someplace using this story and dragging others
out of that darkness, whether it be of due to
trauma or and or addiction or reflection. But so through
that process I found this purpose, and that purpose was
(17:26):
to use my story as a light for others. Right.
I went to court the next day and I got
four years. I didn't get released, but I was released.
I was free. I was mad. I was on this journey.
So and ever since then, every day I wake up,
I put my feet on the floor, like, who can
I help? What can I do? How can I be
of service?
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Because when you're in an addiction, and I know for me,
when I was an addiction, it was always about me.
I always had to get mine off the top. Whether
I was robbing, scamming, scheming, I had to get right
off the top. But when you make this transition and
you become on this recovery journey that I call it
right now, it's about others. How can I help others?
How can I be of service? So you know you
always called me and.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Be like yo, yeah, I'm like Daryl, do I ball
the moj.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Right right up in the building? Because I know how
important is never about me, never about you. It's about others,
it's about somebody that's there that may be struggling. So
mom my mom, you know who never gave up, right,
So it's about that. So for me in that process,
that was the way. So the addiction similar I had to,
(18:34):
you know, find a way to stay on this path
what works. So you know, when we talk a lot
about recovery capital, we talk about those little winds, right Like,
for whether it was getting the job, then it was
that and then because I had that roadmap, those little
winds were already kind of highlighted. I want to graduate college.
(18:54):
I've done that twice. Now I want to own a house.
I own too, you know what I mean. So I
want these things and you know, and it's really not
about the the material things, but it's about these accomplishments,
whether it be these little things that remind you that
(19:15):
you're on the right path, that's you're on the right path.
And you know, even when we get into situations where
they're struggle, like I've been through some major storms, I'm
talking to God like, really, man, come on, many can
we just get one way without off of the storm.
Can't you just give me a million dollars? I'm telling
you I know what to do with it. But you know,
it's always what you know. There's no you know. So
(19:36):
I always have to remind myself that, you know, in
order for you to be a really great fighter, you
have to be in some fights. In order to be
a seasoned sailor, you have to go through some storms.
But before, when I went through those things, I was
looking to reach outside myself. Right when I was in
the thick of it, I was looking to medicate. The
problem doesn't go away. I just numbed the situation. So
(20:01):
today I know I got to go through that to
get to the other side. And then when I get
to the other side. Number one, it's either a blessing
or a lesson. There's going to be some reason for it.
And we can no longer continue to deny ourselves going
through those processes in order for us to be better.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, I love Okay, I have to unpack so much
of what you just said just now.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
So oh no, listen, listen.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
That was incredible. There was no way I was gonna
interrupt you at all. Started at the beginning, one of
the things we say is like your path to recovery
is your path to recovery. But one of the ways
I think substance use disorder treatment I'm doing quote unquote
because people on the podcast can't see me with my
(20:44):
fingers gets it wrong. It's like there's only one way
to start, So like na is the only way to start,
or detox is the only way to start, or residential
program is the only way to start. You started with
a book, right, You started with a book, and so
they are an infinite number of ways to start.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Two. Somebody gave you that book, so like you.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I love this underground railroad imagery that you gave us,
like you keep going back because I was going to
ask you the same question about prison. I know prison
can be a very traumatic place, and you choose to
keep going back, and so I feel like that's part
of your underground rail world. That's part of your magic
(21:32):
formula for today.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right yep.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And then talk to us more about this recovery capital
because I'm here with you, but I want to make
sure our listeners get this concept and can think about
it in their own lives.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah, that recovery capital is those little winds. It really
starts off as little wins. Maybe it's just getting the email,
Maybe it's just getting the job. Maybe it's just getting
the ged. You know, when I work with people, I'm like,
you know, if you had a magic world, what will
be what would be the thing that you would want
to do? Oh I want to be an astronow. Okay,
well we can try that, but maybe you need your
(22:06):
GED first. So how do we get you to that path?
So those wins reassure us that we're on the right path.
I mean, we can't just keep losing, right, and then
we also have to learn through this recovery capital. We
also have to learn a new way of life right
for me, like getting high right, we get you know,
using substances or you know, we are trying to numb
(22:27):
this pain. We're doing all this stuff, but it's not
progressing us in life, at least it wasn't for me.
So therefore I started to see these things as progress progress.
Who was I I got to start to you know,
after a while, I got to start to know who
I am. So I'm more able to talk about my
feelings and atle to be able to talk about the
things that upset me right, and those are whens. So
(22:49):
this capital that starts to build up, starts to build
up this confidence in you. So when somebody either wronged
you or you don't feel right about it, or I
get to tell you like, well, this is making me
feel the way. Now be in a street dude, right,
I ain't never really listen to this is how it
makes me feel, and you make me I would show
you that I am upset with your behavior more so
(23:11):
than me being able to articulate like, listen, this is
upsetting me and this is why, or I'm feeling this
way or no, you're not going to treat me this
way because I know I'm worth it now right. There
was a time, you know, I remember one time on
this journey somebody said to me all And I was
a counselor at the time, and somebody said to me, oh,
(23:31):
well you think you all that? I was like, you're right,
and the person said, well, you ain't supposed to talk
to us like that. You're supposed to encourage. I am
encouraging you. But you said, I think I'm all out right.
I do think I'm all that, because there was a
time in my life that I didn't think I was
anything anything right, So of course I think I'm all that. Yes,
I'd dance the beat of my own drama. I got
music playing, I got the I got the theme music
(23:52):
when I'm walking in because I today de grace guy,
I'm worth it. I'm worth it, and not. Recover capital
is substantial. My bank is full, my regular bank man,
you know, that's so pretty. But my recovery capital bank
is ridiculous, like you know, and I stand on that.
I stand on that because I'm always putting it in there,
(24:13):
whether even this is going in my account right being
on this, the fact that you asked there are people,
I mean, you know, people ask you to speak, people
ask you to come places, people want to hear you,
people want to work with you. You know those are
all wins, right, So yeah, yeah, I'm killing it in
the capital.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Capital capital over fluid. So talk to us. Okay, why
are you on this podcast? I'm gonna pool, all right,
You told me to.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Go here, now listen. You know I don't get out.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Much taked up taked up the recovery capital. Yeah right,
So okay, the magic formula. We have heard some of
the pieces of yours. It sounds like a very central piece.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Is purpose, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And a very central piece is ensuring you are filling
your recovery capital bank account. Can you talk to us,
like share specific examples for how you do that? And
like I said in the book, we talk about biological formula,
(25:21):
psychological formula, environmental formula. Yeah, can you talk to us
about which of those buckets you're you know, getting your
formula out of and what are some discrete examples that
people might try.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, yeah, like you know, so for me, Like, I'm
an entrepreneur, So I'm an entrepreneur. I you know, through
this journey, I want to I want to increase my
presence and motivational speaking. So I search and I look
at quotes, and I write things down and I connect
with people. I try to surround myself with. Like min
the people my my core friends are all business owners.
(25:55):
They always say, you want to be you want to
be a business owner, You got to hang out with
business owners, right, So I don't. I don't. I don't
involve myself in the negative conversations. We don't go down
the road talking about about drug use and and when
we used to sell drugs. I don't. I don't want
to involve myself in those kind of conversations because those
are not profitable, those are not moving me forward to
(26:15):
my goal. So therefore I moved differently. Right, I like
to you know, I like to dress nights, right, so
I you know when I hit when I can. You know,
I'm always in in suits. And it's really funny, like
you know, I wear a lot of suits and stuff
like that. But you know, like I said, you know,
my upbringing, when I was watching those gangster movies and
(26:36):
all that stuff like that, all these people are trying
to be gangster. But movies I watch, these dudes wear suits,
you know what I mean. So I want to I
want to do that, and you know, but then I've
moved towards how can I remain my authentic self while
delivering messages, while being a part of the prop while
being a part of a process of solution versus being
(26:57):
on something else. So I'm always trying to sharp. But
I always say I earned up and is iron I'm
always educating myself. I'm always looking from new ways to
sometimes either re or enhance who I am. So I'm
studying and doing a lot of that. I'm I take classes,
I do things like that, you know, and you know
that's really for the mental right, but really trying to
(27:19):
you know, be of service for others to like, you know,
brother who just did sixteen years in prison, he's doing
really well, but he got sick like everybody's this flu season.
What have you right, We're getting sick. So he couldn't
pay his rent this week. So he called me. He said, man,
I'm struggling, you know, you know, and this is one
(27:40):
of the things that trips us up. We always talk
about pebbles and boulders, right, The boulders are the things
you see. It's the pebbles that trip us up. Right,
So he couldn't predict that he would be sick and
be sure on his rent this week. So I call
one of my friends who runs recovery organization. Hey, I
got a guy that needs rent for the week. Oh,
no problem, right. So enhancing relationships. I have a lot
(28:02):
of good friends today that I can call. My relationships
are not transactional where you know, you give me this,
I do that. We can call each other and I
don't have to it doesn't have to be a given teque.
So being able to do that, being able to treat yourself,
not teat yourself, right, So being able to do those
things for myself, and being able to be more independent
(28:25):
on myself and being leaning on myself. But I would
be remiss not to talk about faith and how important
faith is to me. Right, everybody's journeyings, Different people have
different things. Meetings are amazing. I love seeing connected to
the recovered community. We just went to the Recovery conference
recently in Stanford, Connecticut. It was huge. But being able
to go there and still see people, maybe I only
(28:47):
see them once a year, but I see that you're
still on a journey. I'm still on a journey. We
are still here, we are still in the fight. So
that that also helps going to meetings, connecting with people.
You know, what does your network look like? I always
say my network is my networth?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Right?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
What does that look like? And what kind of conversations
are you having? But I think also, you know, I'm
a dad, right, so being present for family. My twenty
four year old daughter is any day now having a
baby with I am like, I don't know, We're not
gonna use that. We're not gonna be.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
This would be your first second second generation baby.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, Like, like why are we using grand? Why do
you go to go listen? We ain't gotta call people grand.
We're gonna say this is the second generation.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Like a generation baby. Okay, what's this baby gonna call you?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I don't know. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. I'm struggling, you know.
You know I don't like grand I don't know why,
but I and everybody say, well, then it's gonna have
to be popping. I'm not. I never saw myself as
a pops. I don't know, have to figure it out,
but any day now. Now you know my twin who
you know, my first kid born when I was incarcerated,
(30:07):
and you know, by those choices in recovery, I was
able to watch her graduate eighth grade high school, get
her first apartment, help her get her license. You know,
by those choices, I have been present. And that's what
being on this work of being in recovery reading that
book in two thousand and seven made me available to
(30:31):
be ready for this kid, be able to for them
to call me and be like, hey, that I need
and you know, and you know, I know, when I
was an active addiction, I was worried about that. You know,
I was worried about if I was going to be
in a position when my kid calls me, can I
help them?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You know you know, and that's a that's a real thing,
like you know, maybe it's not maybe it's not monetary.
Maybe it's just being present. Maybe you know how to
fix a car, maybe you know something right, but just
being able to be present was super important. And if
we go back to that five year plan, that was
part being a died, being a better die, being available,
(31:09):
being available to them. And yeah, so you know, my
son is last year, he was nineteen, and when I
was nineteen, I started my first my first prison bid.
He started his first college, you know, I you know,
and I was able to pay, which I didn't like.
(31:30):
I was able to pay.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You didn't like actually paying, although you liked being able to.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, when they told me how much they needed, I
looked at him and I said, do you see what's
happening right now? Being able? Man, my degrees got being
able to pay right right? Yeah. We have to make choices, right,
many times I had to make choices in the street.
Some of them got bad, whatever, but I had to
make these choices. And when we were on this recovery journey,
(32:00):
we have to make choices every single day, right, I
have to make a choice that I use not drink,
not do this, not do this, and not do things
that put myself in a situation that may prevent me
from being available leader. You know.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
So yeah, yeah, so, I mean you just ran down
about a bajillion and thirty two pieces of your formula, right.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, that's the sauce. You said, the sauce, Hey, that
was the sauce.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I mean, I asked for it, you gave it. I
asked for what you.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Gave it A right sauce.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
You know, so many little pieces that folks could grab
out of there if it feels like it might be
a fit for them.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And like the point that I don't want.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
To emphasize, I feel like I could categorize your formula
into two big buckets, which is pouring into yourself and
pouring into others.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, you can't pour it from an empty cup, like
we got to know. Yeah, so it's super important to
understand that. Take care of you first. I got to
take care of me first. Yeah, because I and I
tried it. I tried to pour from an empty cup
and it just it's hard and it's stressful, and you
can't help those before you help yourself. You know, you
can't do it. It's impossible. And if you can, let
(33:08):
us know how you doing it, because I found it
to be very difficult.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, And I think what a lot of people struggle
with Darryl is not even realizing my cup is empty.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Right, or trying to Emily. You can't be down with
my girl. I tell people all of the time, You're
not gonna be me. You got to be you, because
see what's working for me is I'm working my program.
That work your program, and you will be successful at that.
Every time you try to do something something different, I
never you know. You can be great. You can do
a million things. What I did might not work for you.
(33:41):
Twelve st that work for me, but it might not
work for you. I always say if somebody says, man,
I found recovery through eating tomatoes, I'm gonna say, you know,
I know somebody that did it to tomatoes. I know
they did it. At the end of the day, we
want you to live. We want you to find your past.
Some people find it through religion, right, and they go
to church every day and they do this, and they
do that, find their space. You got to find that
(34:02):
tribe and then run with it, you know. And then
sometimes you know, and I'll say this. As I've gotten older,
I've learned that we outgrow people too. You know, everybody's
not going to come on the journey the whole way.
And that was probably the hardest lesson that. You know,
people that I started the journey with the people that
I was like, oh no, God, but I loved them.
(34:23):
I want them to come. And He's like, nah, this
is where they get all. This is the this is
their stop in order for you to grow or like
you know, I always he's the furniture, right. If I
want to put a new couch in my living room,
I got to take the old one out. So sometimes
you got to move some stuff around in order for
the new stuff to come in. And it won't fit
(34:44):
eve unless you take the other stuff out. So I
had to learn that. I had to learn that, and
that was a hard lesson because I think I'm a
people pack rack, right. I like to keep people. I
like to pack rack people. I like to keep everybody,
and it just don't work like that.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I love that imagery with the couch, like you have
to make space, you have to you have to make space.
And I also want to double click on what you said,
you should just be the host. Okay, you could be
the host and then I will be the guests.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
No, no, no, no, this is your thing. I'm just I'm
just jumping it.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
I'm just jumping in.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
You ask a perfect question, that's all. It's easy. Yeah,
you know, you don't get me right, you don't get
me right.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I loved when you said your formula is your formula,
and so like that is literally the heart and soul
of the message that we're trying to send. You said,
we want you to live, find your formula and work
with it. And I think also like just like everybody
that started the journey with you will not be on
the journey with you the whole way. Your formula can
(35:49):
also change over time.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It does. It looks different, it looks different, and you know, man,
as we get older, we learn that everybody's not going
to clap for you, you know, And I was, I was,
I was really surprised about that. I was like, oh, look,
I'm waiting I got this award and they're like, yeah,
good for you, right, because they're going through their stuff,
you're going through your stuff, and it tends to be
(36:12):
then the people who like, you know, Facebook says, I
have over two thousand friends. I don't even know all
these people, but it does. But when it comes down
to it, and especially on the tough days, you know,
you might get that one or two friends.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, you may have people.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Which why is so important, said number one, have that capital.
You got to be kicked up in that capital when
you need to reach in I need to reach interests,
I need some reminders wait a minute, at least some stuff, right,
and being able to have that and understating that, you know,
everybody's not going to clap. Everybody's not going to clap.
And sometimes these people that that may be dressed as
family members and or what have you, they might not
(36:51):
because they're going through their own things and that's what.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, they might not even have the ability to clap, right.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Right, That's okay, And that's that's Sometimes the cloud literally
the loudest for myself, like yo, I am waitning, I
am winning, And sometimes that comes in the forms of
me playing very loud rap music in my car, you
know what I mean, But just really celebrating just and
being you know, I think for me one of the
(37:17):
most things is being humble, Like one of the things
I talked to God the most about no matter how
successful you allow me to get, please let me remain humble.
I don't even want fame, success, money, wealth, whatever, without humble,
I don't want. I don't want it because I already
know that's not going to do good for me. That's
not that's not what I am. If I can't remain humble.
Have a lot of stuff I like, I like nice stuff,
(37:40):
but I don't want it if I can't remain if
I can't be humble with it.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, And I mean humble is like an adjective, and
I really see the way you turn that into a verb.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Is the service work?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, yeah, that you do being able to get back
and people see that like they either you don't. I mean,
like we don't have to do this. I don't have
to be here. I don't have to come here. I
come here because I choose to. I don't have to
do these things that you know, you know there's that
I got mine. You know that I'm good, right, you
know I'm good. But I choose to be where I am,
(38:15):
and you know, because that's the work that I've chosen.
That's that's the rate on this earth is to give back.
You know, I always say godless and use a whole
bunch of these things. He lets us have all this
nice stuff, but that's nothing. That's those are just tools.
The work on the earth is actually what are you doing?
And you want to be that person? Like even quote
(38:36):
unquote when this second generation baby is boy, right, and
questions are asked, what did you do when when George
Floyd or any anything happened in the world, Where were
you What were you doing? You want to be able
to answer that. I want to be able to answer that, right.
I want to be able to say, well, I did this,
and this is what I did. You know, I've accomplished
(38:58):
a lot of first in our state as a black man,
and on the first this and I'm the first that.
So hopefully some days somebody starts writing about me in
Black History Month. Thank you to yo writing about your boy.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Right about your boy?
Speaker 1 (39:14):
All right, So time is flying because you're dropping the
sauce about half of the time. I remember to say
at the end of the episode, I'm going to ask
you this question. Remember, the name of the book is
un addiction, unlearned. What we think we know undo stigma
that's killing people uncover the conversations. And so if there
(39:38):
is one thing that you want people to unlearn, one stigma,
you want them to undo, one conversation, you want them
to uncover, what is it?
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah, you got to unlearn that. I think for me
is that we're not our worst mistake.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
We make mistakes and we're going to continue to make them.
Date on the find us, right, So stop listening to
that that negative messaging and replace what positive. I had
to unlearn that. I struggled with that, like you know,
the we call it imposter syndrome, right, No matter what,
I'm always getting these negatives, Oh, you don't deserve to
be here, Oh this is gonna happen. And you know
(40:18):
that that you know, we call it tragic or you know,
kind of catastrophic, catastrophic, catastrophic thinking. Why do we think
like that? How come I can't win? You know my
mentor who passed away a few years ago, when I
was going through the storm, he came over and I
was like, you know, I was like, oh, man, no
(40:39):
one likes me, and he's like, you know, and I
was going through something and he said, well why not you?
Why not? And I was like, I hate when he
did that, right, he was like, why not you? And it?
So now I embraced that why not me? You know,
when I go through a storm, I say, you know what,
I'd bout there, It be me because I'm built for this,
(40:59):
versus it'd be somebody who can't, who might not be
built for this, who this might be the final straw.
They might take actions otherwise than going through the storm.
So I'd rather be me. I'll take that all day.
You know, we are the stone catchers, right, Let's catch
some stone trailers. I'd rather go through that. So, you know,
I learned accepting those negative messages about yourself and you
make a mistake, you know, own it and keep it moving.
(41:22):
So I would unlearn that that would be the first
thing because that's gonna that's going to propel you into
this world. Like you know, I've been going through stuff
and people all even call you and they will remind
you how bad your situation is. Like, yo, you know
what they said about you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Know what's going on?
Speaker 7 (41:37):
Yeah, I know, I know that's all right, that's all right,
you know how you doing though? I'm doing all right.
I'm doing that, nah man, I'm just checking on you.
Good man, I'm man. If it was me, I said,
I know, if it was you, you'd be hurting right now.
But me less, I'm standing there. I'm standing ten toes up.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Man, Let's go. Let's go. If not, because I know
the other side, when I get to the other side
of whatever trials and true relations that is, it's will
be one hundred percent stronger, knowledgeable and equipped with that
that You'll never be able to get me like that again.
You'll never be able to use that. It'll never be
because I'm skilled, right.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, I love that so much. So I'm going to
use that to close us out. You are not your
biggest mistake. And I want to come back to something
Darryl said earlier. You think you all that?
Speaker 5 (42:28):
Yes, absolutely, you are all that, all that, all that
believe that tell them tomorrow today.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
You know when I heard I'm all.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
That facts exactly. Thank you so much for coming, Darryl,
So you put in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
We definitely need people to check out the documentary Uprooting Addiction.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
We definitely need them to check out your ted X talk.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Thank you. Thank you formally in Connecticut, but we worldwide.
We're trying to be worldwide. Is that We are the
first criminal justice reform consulting organization fully staffed by people
would live experience of the criminal justice system. We do
technical assistance, we do talks, we do workshops, we talk
(43:21):
about on re entry. What we focus on re entry
and recovery. And that's one of the things that that's
my passionate. You know, the t is ted is something
I'm super excited about, but really being able to work
and try to employ. You know, my goal is to
be the largest employer of formally incarcerated people ever, like ever,
(43:41):
because I'm just all that. Yeah, ever, you know, because
you know, so many of our people get denied access
to employment and housing because of their criminal background. We
smile at that, like bring that to us. So let's
see how we can work with that. Times we can
help people. Sometimes we can't, but most of the times,
(44:03):
you know, if nothing else, we create, we create a
community of like minded people and we shoot them how
to get on the other side of that struggle. Follow
me on, Follow me on. I g Harry Tubman, Harriet
Harry Tubman a team. Follow me because I'm trying to
get more follows than my daughter. She got five thousand.
I got like two come on, man, hit me up,
(44:23):
follow me, follow me, shout me out.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Amazing and congratulations on the second generation baby.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh, thank you. Thank you for the term. We'll be
using it. If we you know, we might have to
break you off a little bit.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
You can just call the baby two.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
G Yeah, yeah, you know that's what we're gonna like it.
I like it, I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Thank you so much for tuning in. And if you
like this episode, please check out my book on Addiction.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available
at Barnes and Noble Bookshop, dot org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,
and wherever sold. If you like to this episode, please
share it with someone you think may need to hear it. Also,
please subscribe to this podcast and leave a five star
(45:10):
review that helps us reach any and everyone who may
be looking for support in the face of addiction.
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Enzinga Harrison.
I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.
I am so excited to tell you about my book, Unaddictioned.
Six Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, is
now available from Union Square and Company or wherever books
(00:46):
are sold. Daryl McGraw is the founder of Formerly, Inc,
which supports anyone returning to the community after incarceration or
inpatient addiction treatment. Daryl's personal journey through addiction and incarceration
has prepared him to be a voice and advocate for
those who still find themselves caught in the vicious cycles
(01:06):
of addiction and recidivism. He is a certified addictions counselor,
recovery support specialist and criminal justice professional who has served
as the former Program director for the Yale University Department
of Psychiatry and Director of the Office of Recovery Community
Affairs for the State of Connecticut Department of Mental Health
and Addiction Services. This conversation was so fun from Daryl's
(01:30):
recipe and secret sauce for his magic formula, as well
as at the very end, the most important thing he
wants people with addiction to unlearn.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So welcome, Daryl.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I am so thrilled that you said yes to coming
on the Unaddictioned podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I haven't seen you. It's probably two years now or three.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's been a minute. I think it might be two
or three years. Well, thank you for the m I'm
always going to come through.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I appreciate you coming through.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So un Addiction podcast we created to bring awareness to
Unaddictioned book, which just came out in January ninth, And
the purpose of the book is really to change the
way we think about addiction, which can then change the
way we feel about people who have experienced addiction, which
can change the way that we treat them. And so
(02:20):
the idea is like unlearned what we think we know
that's not right. Undo the stigmas that are killing people,
uncover the conversations that we need to have to start
making a difference.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And so this podcast is a series.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Of conversations with people who have had their own recovery journey,
and we talk about wherever our hearts and souls take us.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Cool cool, am amit?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So with that intro, tell the listeners whatever you want
them to know about Daryl McGrath.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Oh man, Well, we'll see, and thank you for to
invite so many names. I'm a girl, I am a
person what I like to identify as the long term recovery,
which means I haven't used a substance since May seven,
two thousand and seven, you know, So yeah, I'm excited
about that. But that also for me, my journey comes
with that's the last time that I was in the
back of the police car. That's the last time that
(03:19):
you know, because I'm also survivor of police brutality, and
you know, that was also the last time or that
would I entered the prison system, not on my own accord,
where I got to leave when I was ready to leave.
But that's also so my story comes with My recovery
journey comes with the incarceration you know, I spent ten
(03:40):
years of my life in and out of the correctional
system right on what I call the installment plan, which
means that you know, would go in, I would go
in for a few years, come back, and go out
in cycling in and out. So I did that for
about ten years of my life. And when I really
started to pill the onion back and I realized that
addiction was to root cause of pretty much all my
(04:01):
incarcerations in or interaction football enforcement. Every time I seemed
going to get high, I was selling drug. I was
doing something that was addiction related that had me involving
myself with the criminal legal system.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's not an installment plan that we would recommend for anybody, right.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Not by any means now, not at all. No, No,
definitely not that. But you know, nothing was that was
that was That was the journey, right, That was the
thing for me, like cycle and now couldn't get couldn't
get right, come figure out why I had to keep
starting over.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, And so we actually met when I saw you
in this documentary uprooting addiction, and what we spent a
lot of time on in the book on addiction is
looking at the root causes for addiction. So you said,
I noticed that a root cause for my prison installment
(04:54):
plan was addiction. You and I met, and you are
educating us on how you can came to understand the
root causes of your addiction. Are you open to sharing
that with us?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, it's sort of root causes. I mean, like,
so then, I you know, thank you love the platform,
and I love, you know, being here talking about that
because without talking about it, it makes me better, it
makes you, it keeps it greening, as some of us
like to say. You know, so I talk about trauma.
We talk about trauma and a rooting addiction, right, And
(05:28):
one of the root causes for my or one of
the first traumas for me was my dad leaving when
I was six years old, and when he laughed, he
told me I was the man at the house, right,
And I don't want to give away all the good stuff.
So I really want your listeners to go check out
upbringing addiction and then let's chop it up from there.
(05:48):
But really having the just understanding that for a long
time up until like I didn't even know growing up
in the inner city, growing up in like in violent
and vironments, I didn't even really know I was a
trauma survivor. I didn't even know I was like, you know,
because everybody, you know, we like to say it was
the air that we breathe, right, So I didn't even
(06:10):
know that I was even impacted by trauma, right in
my first trauma being my dad leaving. But then growing
up in the hood, if you will, I started to
witness and violence and so on and so forth, and
by the time I was fourteen, I became a perpetrator
of violence, of that same violence that I was witnessing.
And then I got introduced to crack cocaine at you know,
(06:31):
and I had some do to marijuana. I drank drink beer.
I'm old school, so ionna say, I drank fourties, right,
and so you know I did that. But it wasn't
until I was introduced to crack cocaine that I find
something that could actually numb the pain that I was feeling,
which I couldn't even identify the pain that I was feeling.
So crack cocaine did something different than anything else for me,
(06:56):
and it was numbing the pain of what I realized
later in life was the pain of being you know,
my dad abandoned in our family at six years old
and telling me, now, I was a man at a house.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And so we break down kind of like into these
six conversations biological risk, psychological risk, environmental risk, and what
you're talking about we address kind of in the childhood
psychological risk, which is this concept of aces. And so
what you're describing is one of the adverse childhood experiences,
(07:30):
one of the aces, which is losing a parent.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
But then we also.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Talk about which I think is really important, Darryl, and
I saw your YouTube, your TEDx talk on this, Yeah,
so I definitely want you to tell us about the
TEDx talk. We you know, examine the aces in the book,
and the aces are really about what's happening inside your house, right,
And the Philadelphia ass Project now has done a lot
(07:57):
of work on what's happening outside out of the house,
and touches on this concept that you're talking about also,
which is urban trauma.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And so yeah, talk to us about that.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, urban and or community trauma. We're starting to see
a lot of people start to see the impact of
that Philadelphia ASIS project. So you're going to be talking
on soon and that ted talk that I was unfortunately
to do was you know, trauma, trauma unchecked, this trauma untreated, right,
so you know that external like that that you know,
(08:32):
you know I remember growing up and the older people
would say, if he keeps messing, you hit him in
the head with something. Well, today we know that that's
probably not the best I did. That could lead to
those tall second in an course regions, it's and or worse, right,
So we know that that wasn't the best advice. But
the and the impact of like you know, being poor, poverty, food,
(08:54):
food insecurities, all of those things right are are and
we know and I know your listeners know it's important
to acknowledge for someone that just started understanding the trauma
is that it's not the actual event, it's the impact, right,
or our response to that event, right, And that's what
we you know, I had to learn that, right. So
(09:14):
it wasn't the fact that you know, it wasn't my
dad leaving was my response to it, because you know
I grew up in an ad a brother, right, and
if you know you were talking to my brother, his
response to that same event maybe different, or you and
I could witness something. You know, many people had the
unfortunate pleasure of watching George Floyd be murdered right before
our eyes, right, and the response for me, being a
(09:38):
survivor of police brutality, I saw when I saw George
on the ground, I saw myself on the ground. Many
of us saw ourselves on the ground, so we could
we understood that. I internalized that I was traumatized by that.
But somebody else can see the same thing and not
feel or see the same you know, have the same experience.
(09:59):
So it's how we're respond to that, right, So how
we respond to that. And then my also part of
my response to trauma was using substances, right, using crack cocaine,
crack cocaine and marijuana. I always like to say that
I had an intimate relationship with crack cocaine and marijuana, right,
which means it was the only thing that I was
(10:19):
dedicated oil to that I did every single day, no
matter what rain sleepers. Now, I was going to get
my drug choice. So understanding how necessary that was for
me though, I realized that, you know, once I was
able to and this is not for me, right, we're
talking about me for me, but once I was able
to identify that my you know, my dad leaving wasn't me,
(10:45):
that wasn't on me, that was his stuff. And when
he was able to identify that it was this was
the trauma and this is what I was trying to numb.
The substances became it became easier for me to leave
that behind him and try and try to move on
with the life. Like so, you know, when we're working
on with people who you know or on this recovery
(11:05):
journey and who also suffer from some type of trauma,
that trauma and things that I've experienced and things that
happen or things that I witnessed didn't change. Those things
will happen, But how do I live in this life
with those things that have happened to me?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, And when we think about like samsu has the
Trauma Informed Framework, They have the four RS, and one
of the ours is recognizing the signs and symptoms of trauma.
And I think we've come a long way and we
have a long way to go, but recognizing that the
symptoms of trauma do not always look like flashbacks, right.
(11:46):
Sometimes they look like drug use. Sometimes they look like hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
It can look like so many things. But so talk
to us, Daryl. We have this concept in the book
called the Magic Formula, and the magic formula says, if
you know the root causes of the addiction biological, psychological,
(12:07):
and environmental, and environmental is the physical environment, but also
the cultural environment that you grew up in, and then
also those same three biological, psychological, environmental today as an adult,
then you can put together your magic formula for intervening
in whatever addiction.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And this applies beyond addiction.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
But one of the things I'm hoping for for this
podcast is that we hear an infinite number of root
causes of addiction, and then we also hear an infinite
number of pathways to recovery. And maybe somebody hears something
in your path, or maybe they hear something in the
formula you're working today that they think like, oh, I
might try that, or oh that might work for me.
(12:50):
And so can you talk to us about how you
came to understand trauma as the root of your addiction,
and how you came to understand addiction as the root
of your incarceration, and then how you use that information
to set yourself on your recovery path.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Oh wow, Wow, We're talking about a recipe.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
We want all the recipes, Darryl coup of that.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a little sauce. You got
some for the sauce, right, you got some for the sauce.
I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try. What
what I'm looking at, what I think about it, and
I break it down into two things. So when I
was when I got arrested the last time, May seven,
two thousand and seven. Right I got arrested, it wasn't
my first time. I had already been assaulted by police.
(13:40):
I was on a quarter of a million dollars bond, incarcerated.
Nothing was going ready, and I was in my cell
and some guy to this day, I don't know what
the guy was came by. I said, man, I got
this book for you to read. And I was like, man,
if I was reading books, I won't even be in prison.
I want to be in jail. I don't want to
read no book. Man, can't you see I'm struggling right now.
(14:00):
He's like, no, no, I want you to read this book.
And so he came back. He slipped the book under
the door, and the book was a purpose shift in
like by Rick Warren. Right, and I'm not showing people
have heard of it before, but I mean like it
was for me this like it was a forty day
spiritual journey. Right, And those people that I've heard of
the book, it's a forty day spiritual journey. It takes
(14:22):
forty days to read it. You read it chapter by chapter.
There's forty chapters. Well, my core day was forty one
days away. And I'm a spiritual person. I'm believing God.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Man.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I love God. I know God loves me because I
would not be here with you today if this was so. Right.
So I'm thinking, oh man, God must send me this book.
So I'm reading this book day by day, writing in
this little book, saying look at me God, because I'm
thinking God's a bondsman. Pace. I'm thinking that kind of
paying attention.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Oh right, you thank God the bondsman. Yeah yeah, I'm thinking, yeah, Yo.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
God, listen, you see me writing in this book. You
send me, right, So I'm trying to I'm trying to
bond out. I'm keeping a rail, you know me, and
you right, I'm gonna keep a brail. So I'm trying
to bond out with God.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I'm trying to make another I'm trying to make another
deal wouldn't have big got So I'm writing and I'm right,
and you know, I'm writing, like go online and you know.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Then I close the book and I go to sleep.
But by day twenty six, I got to be honest.
I started writing and I couldn't stop. And I just
couldn't stop writing. It's like, you know, oh, I want
to do this. I want to be a better dad.
I want to be a community because when we're in
we're not even a part of the community. I want
my neighbor to know my name. You ain't gonna know
my government. I don't want you to know nothing about me, right,
(15:41):
But then when you make the transition, sure, I want
you to know this is my house. I want the
police to know this is my house case somebody's breaking
in someone something looks odd here, right. So I want
to be connected to my community. I want to be
a coach in my community. I want to be a
good dad. I want to be that. So I started writing,
and I and stop right And then by day forty
(16:02):
I had already felt like two of these notebooks that
they give you in jail. But I already felt like
two of them. And what I called today my five
year plan to successful reentry and recovery, Right, And I
wrote it and it was like, you know, I want
to I like have pie in the sky dreams of
I wanted to be. I want to be a homeowner.
I want to go to college. I want to get
(16:23):
a master's degree. Mind you, I'm still facing all this time,
but I had already had this road map. And you know,
I remember in the beginning that selling saying to God.
I said, Man, God, I really want to go home.
But if it's not your will, man, I'm good because
through that process I had found purpose, right, And I
(16:44):
found purpose, and my purpose was to be here with
you today and others and other places every chance I
get to use my story as a light to guide
others out of darkness. Right. And I believe that you
and I and all of us that are on this
journey are on the underground railroad, right, the modern day
underground railroad, And what our job is to do is
(17:05):
help free others. Right. We go back and we go
back in, whether it be through this podcast or me
going to the prisons, or me in the street, or
me be in someplace using this story and dragging others
out of that darkness, whether it be of due to
trauma or and or addiction or reflection. But so through
that process I found this purpose, and that purpose was
(17:26):
to use my story as a light for others. Right.
I went to court the next day and I got
four years. I didn't get released, but I was released.
I was free. I was mad. I was on this journey.
So and ever since then, every day I wake up,
I put my feet on the floor, like, who can
I help? What can I do? How can I be
of service?
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Because when you're in an addiction, and I know for me,
when I was an addiction, it was always about me.
I always had to get mine off the top. Whether
I was robbing, scamming, scheming, I had to get right
off the top. But when you make this transition and
you become on this recovery journey that I call it
right now, it's about others. How can I help others?
How can I be of service? So you know you
always called me and.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Be like yo, yeah, I'm like Daryl, do I ball
the moj.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Right right up in the building? Because I know how
important is never about me, never about you. It's about others,
it's about somebody that's there that may be struggling. So
mom my mom, you know who never gave up, right,
So it's about that. So for me in that process,
that was the way. So the addiction similar I had to,
(18:34):
you know, find a way to stay on this path
what works. So you know, when we talk a lot
about recovery capital, we talk about those little winds, right Like,
for whether it was getting the job, then it was
that and then because I had that roadmap, those little
winds were already kind of highlighted. I want to graduate college.
(18:54):
I've done that twice. Now I want to own a house.
I own too, you know what I mean. So I
want these things and you know, and it's really not
about the the material things, but it's about these accomplishments,
whether it be these little things that remind you that
(19:15):
you're on the right path, that's you're on the right path.
And you know, even when we get into situations where
they're struggle, like I've been through some major storms, I'm
talking to God like, really, man, come on, many can
we just get one way without off of the storm.
Can't you just give me a million dollars? I'm telling
you I know what to do with it. But you know,
it's always what you know. There's no you know. So
(19:36):
I always have to remind myself that, you know, in
order for you to be a really great fighter, you
have to be in some fights. In order to be
a seasoned sailor, you have to go through some storms.
But before, when I went through those things, I was
looking to reach outside myself. Right when I was in
the thick of it, I was looking to medicate. The
problem doesn't go away. I just numbed the situation. So
(20:01):
today I know I got to go through that to
get to the other side. And then when I get
to the other side. Number one, it's either a blessing
or a lesson. There's going to be some reason for it.
And we can no longer continue to deny ourselves going
through those processes in order for us to be better.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, I love Okay, I have to unpack so much
of what you just said just now.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
So oh no, listen, listen.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
That was incredible. There was no way I was gonna
interrupt you at all. Started at the beginning, one of
the things we say is like your path to recovery
is your path to recovery. But one of the ways
I think substance use disorder treatment I'm doing quote unquote
because people on the podcast can't see me with my
(20:44):
fingers gets it wrong. It's like there's only one way
to start, So like na is the only way to start,
or detox is the only way to start, or residential
program is the only way to start. You started with
a book, right, You started with a book, and so
they are an infinite number of ways to start.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Two. Somebody gave you that book, so like you.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I love this underground railroad imagery that you gave us,
like you keep going back because I was going to
ask you the same question about prison. I know prison
can be a very traumatic place, and you choose to
keep going back, and so I feel like that's part
of your underground rail world. That's part of your magic
(21:32):
formula for today.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right yep.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And then talk to us more about this recovery capital
because I'm here with you, but I want to make
sure our listeners get this concept and can think about
it in their own lives.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah, that recovery capital is those little winds. It really
starts off as little wins. Maybe it's just getting the email,
Maybe it's just getting the job. Maybe it's just getting
the ged. You know, when I work with people, I'm like,
you know, if you had a magic world, what will
be what would be the thing that you would want
to do? Oh I want to be an astronow. Okay,
well we can try that, but maybe you need your
(22:06):
GED first. So how do we get you to that path?
So those wins reassure us that we're on the right path.
I mean, we can't just keep losing, right, and then
we also have to learn through this recovery capital. We
also have to learn a new way of life right
for me, like getting high right, we get you know,
using substances or you know, we are trying to numb
(22:27):
this pain. We're doing all this stuff, but it's not
progressing us in life, at least it wasn't for me.
So therefore I started to see these things as progress progress.
Who was I I got to start to you know,
after a while, I got to start to know who
I am. So I'm more able to talk about my
feelings and atle to be able to talk about the
things that upset me right, and those are whens. So
(22:49):
this capital that starts to build up, starts to build
up this confidence in you. So when somebody either wronged
you or you don't feel right about it, or I
get to tell you like, well, this is making me
feel the way. Now be in a street dude, right,
I ain't never really listen to this is how it
makes me feel, and you make me I would show
you that I am upset with your behavior more so
(23:11):
than me being able to articulate like, listen, this is
upsetting me and this is why, or I'm feeling this
way or no, you're not going to treat me this
way because I know I'm worth it now right. There
was a time, you know, I remember one time on
this journey somebody said to me all And I was
a counselor at the time, and somebody said to me, oh,
(23:31):
well you think you all that? I was like, you're right,
and the person said, well, you ain't supposed to talk
to us like that. You're supposed to encourage. I am
encouraging you. But you said, I think I'm all out right.
I do think I'm all that, because there was a
time in my life that I didn't think I was
anything anything right, So of course I think I'm all that. Yes,
I'd dance the beat of my own drama. I got
music playing, I got the I got the theme music
(23:52):
when I'm walking in because I today de grace guy,
I'm worth it. I'm worth it, and not. Recover capital
is substantial. My bank is full, my regular bank man,
you know, that's so pretty. But my recovery capital bank
is ridiculous, like you know, and I stand on that.
I stand on that because I'm always putting it in there,
(24:13):
whether even this is going in my account right being
on this, the fact that you asked there are people,
I mean, you know, people ask you to speak, people
ask you to come places, people want to hear you,
people want to work with you. You know those are
all wins, right, So yeah, yeah, I'm killing it in
the capital.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Capital capital over fluid. So talk to us. Okay, why
are you on this podcast? I'm gonna pool, all right,
You told me to.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Go here, now listen. You know I don't get out.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Much taked up taked up the recovery capital. Yeah right,
So okay, the magic formula. We have heard some of
the pieces of yours. It sounds like a very central piece.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Is purpose, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And a very central piece is ensuring you are filling
your recovery capital bank account. Can you talk to us,
like share specific examples for how you do that? And
like I said in the book, we talk about biological formula,
(25:21):
psychological formula, environmental formula. Yeah, can you talk to us
about which of those buckets you're you know, getting your
formula out of and what are some discrete examples that
people might try.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, yeah, like you know, so for me, Like, I'm
an entrepreneur, So I'm an entrepreneur. I you know, through
this journey, I want to I want to increase my
presence and motivational speaking. So I search and I look
at quotes, and I write things down and I connect
with people. I try to surround myself with. Like min
the people my my core friends are all business owners.
(25:55):
They always say, you want to be you want to
be a business owner, You got to hang out with
business owners, right, So I don't. I don't. I don't
involve myself in the negative conversations. We don't go down
the road talking about about drug use and and when
we used to sell drugs. I don't. I don't want
to involve myself in those kind of conversations because those
are not profitable, those are not moving me forward to
(26:15):
my goal. So therefore I moved differently. Right, I like
to you know, I like to dress nights, right, so
I you know when I hit when I can. You know,
I'm always in in suits. And it's really funny, like
you know, I wear a lot of suits and stuff
like that. But you know, like I said, you know,
my upbringing, when I was watching those gangster movies and
(26:36):
all that stuff like that, all these people are trying
to be gangster. But movies I watch, these dudes wear suits,
you know what I mean. So I want to I
want to do that, and you know, but then I've
moved towards how can I remain my authentic self while
delivering messages, while being a part of the prop while
being a part of a process of solution versus being
(26:57):
on something else. So I'm always trying to sharp. But
I always say I earned up and is iron I'm
always educating myself. I'm always looking from new ways to
sometimes either re or enhance who I am. So I'm
studying and doing a lot of that. I'm I take classes,
I do things like that, you know, and you know
that's really for the mental right, but really trying to
(27:19):
you know, be of service for others to like, you know,
brother who just did sixteen years in prison, he's doing
really well, but he got sick like everybody's this flu season.
What have you right, We're getting sick. So he couldn't
pay his rent this week. So he called me. He said, man,
I'm struggling, you know, you know, and this is one
(27:40):
of the things that trips us up. We always talk
about pebbles and boulders, right, The boulders are the things
you see. It's the pebbles that trip us up. Right,
So he couldn't predict that he would be sick and
be sure on his rent this week. So I call
one of my friends who runs recovery organization. Hey, I
got a guy that needs rent for the week. Oh,
no problem, right. So enhancing relationships. I have a lot
(28:02):
of good friends today that I can call. My relationships
are not transactional where you know, you give me this,
I do that. We can call each other and I
don't have to it doesn't have to be a given teque.
So being able to do that, being able to treat yourself,
not teat yourself, right, So being able to do those
things for myself, and being able to be more independent
(28:25):
on myself and being leaning on myself. But I would
be remiss not to talk about faith and how important
faith is to me. Right, everybody's journeyings, Different people have
different things. Meetings are amazing. I love seeing connected to
the recovered community. We just went to the Recovery conference
recently in Stanford, Connecticut. It was huge. But being able
to go there and still see people, maybe I only
(28:47):
see them once a year, but I see that you're
still on a journey. I'm still on a journey. We
are still here, we are still in the fight. So
that that also helps going to meetings, connecting with people.
You know, what does your network look like? I always
say my network is my networth?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Right?
Speaker 3 (29:04):
What does that look like? And what kind of conversations
are you having? But I think also, you know, I'm
a dad, right, so being present for family. My twenty
four year old daughter is any day now having a
baby with I am like, I don't know, We're not
gonna use that. We're not gonna be.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
This would be your first second second generation baby.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Yeah, Like, like why are we using grand? Why do
you go to go listen? We ain't gotta call people grand.
We're gonna say this is the second generation.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Like a generation baby. Okay, what's this baby gonna call you?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I don't know. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. I'm struggling, you know.
You know I don't like grand I don't know why,
but I and everybody say, well, then it's gonna have
to be popping. I'm not. I never saw myself as
a pops. I don't know, have to figure it out,
but any day now. Now you know my twin who
you know, my first kid born when I was incarcerated,
(30:07):
and you know, by those choices in recovery, I was
able to watch her graduate eighth grade high school, get
her first apartment, help her get her license. You know,
by those choices, I have been present. And that's what
being on this work of being in recovery reading that
book in two thousand and seven made me available to
(30:31):
be ready for this kid, be able to for them
to call me and be like, hey, that I need
and you know, and you know, I know, when I
was an active addiction, I was worried about that. You know,
I was worried about if I was going to be
in a position when my kid calls me, can I
help them?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
You know you know, and that's a that's a real thing,
like you know, maybe it's not maybe it's not monetary.
Maybe it's just being present. Maybe you know how to
fix a car, maybe you know something right, but just
being able to be present was super important. And if
we go back to that five year plan, that was
part being a died, being a better die, being available,
(31:09):
being available to them. And yeah, so you know, my
son is last year, he was nineteen, and when I
was nineteen, I started my first my first prison bid.
He started his first college, you know, I you know,
and I was able to pay, which I didn't like.
(31:30):
I was able to pay.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
You didn't like actually paying, although you liked being able to.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, when they told me how much they needed, I
looked at him and I said, do you see what's
happening right now? Being able? Man, my degrees got being
able to pay right right? Yeah. We have to make choices, right,
many times I had to make choices in the street.
Some of them got bad, whatever, but I had to
make these choices. And when we were on this recovery journey,
(32:00):
we have to make choices every single day, right, I
have to make a choice that I use not drink,
not do this, not do this, and not do things
that put myself in a situation that may prevent me
from being available leader. You know.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
So yeah, yeah, so, I mean you just ran down
about a bajillion and thirty two pieces of your formula, right.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, that's the sauce. You said, the sauce, Hey, that
was the sauce.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I mean, I asked for it, you gave it. I
asked for what you.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Gave it A right sauce.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
You know, so many little pieces that folks could grab
out of there if it feels like it might be
a fit for them.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And like the point that I don't want.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
To emphasize, I feel like I could categorize your formula
into two big buckets, which is pouring into yourself and
pouring into others.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, you can't pour it from an empty cup, like
we got to know. Yeah, so it's super important to
understand that. Take care of you first. I got to
take care of me first. Yeah, because I and I
tried it. I tried to pour from an empty cup
and it just it's hard and it's stressful, and you
can't help those before you help yourself. You know, you
can't do it. It's impossible. And if you can, let
(33:08):
us know how you doing it, because I found it
to be very difficult.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, And I think what a lot of people struggle
with Darryl is not even realizing my cup is empty.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Right, or trying to Emily. You can't be down with
my girl. I tell people all of the time, You're
not gonna be me. You got to be you, because
see what's working for me is I'm working my program.
That work your program, and you will be successful at that.
Every time you try to do something something different, I
never you know. You can be great. You can do
a million things. What I did might not work for you.
(33:41):
Twelve st that work for me, but it might not
work for you. I always say if somebody says, man,
I found recovery through eating tomatoes, I'm gonna say, you know,
I know somebody that did it to tomatoes. I know
they did it. At the end of the day, we
want you to live. We want you to find your past.
Some people find it through religion, right, and they go
to church every day and they do this, and they
do that, find their space. You got to find that
(34:02):
tribe and then run with it, you know. And then
sometimes you know, and I'll say this. As I've gotten older,
I've learned that we outgrow people too. You know, everybody's
not going to come on the journey the whole way.
And that was probably the hardest lesson that. You know,
people that I started the journey with the people that
I was like, oh no, God, but I loved them.
(34:23):
I want them to come. And He's like, nah, this
is where they get all. This is the this is
their stop in order for you to grow or like
you know, I always he's the furniture, right. If I
want to put a new couch in my living room,
I got to take the old one out. So sometimes
you got to move some stuff around in order for
the new stuff to come in. And it won't fit
(34:44):
eve unless you take the other stuff out. So I
had to learn that. I had to learn that, and
that was a hard lesson because I think I'm a
people pack rack, right. I like to keep people. I
like to pack rack people. I like to keep everybody,
and it just don't work like that.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I love that imagery with the couch, like you have
to make space, you have to you have to make space.
And I also want to double click on what you said,
you should just be the host. Okay, you could be
the host and then I will be the guests.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
No, no, no, no, this is your thing. I'm just I'm
just jumping it.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
I'm just jumping in.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
You ask a perfect question, that's all. It's easy. Yeah,
you know, you don't get me right, you don't get
me right.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I loved when you said your formula is your formula,
and so like that is literally the heart and soul
of the message that we're trying to send. You said,
we want you to live, find your formula and work
with it. And I think also like just like everybody
that started the journey with you will not be on
the journey with you the whole way. Your formula can
(35:49):
also change over time.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It does. It looks different, it looks different, and you know, man,
as we get older, we learn that everybody's not going
to clap for you, you know, And I was, I was,
I was really surprised about that. I was like, oh, look,
I'm waiting I got this award and they're like, yeah,
good for you, right, because they're going through their stuff,
you're going through your stuff, and it tends to be
(36:12):
then the people who like, you know, Facebook says, I
have over two thousand friends. I don't even know all
these people, but it does. But when it comes down
to it, and especially on the tough days, you know,
you might get that one or two friends.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, you may have people.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Which why is so important, said number one, have that capital.
You got to be kicked up in that capital when
you need to reach in I need to reach interests,
I need some reminders wait a minute, at least some stuff, right,
and being able to have that and understating that, you know,
everybody's not going to clap. Everybody's not going to clap.
And sometimes these people that that may be dressed as
family members and or what have you, they might not
(36:51):
because they're going through their own things and that's what.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, they might not even have the ability to clap, right.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Right, That's okay, And that's that's Sometimes the cloud literally
the loudest for myself, like yo, I am waitning, I
am winning, And sometimes that comes in the forms of
me playing very loud rap music in my car, you
know what I mean, But just really celebrating just and
being you know, I think for me one of the
(37:17):
most things is being humble, Like one of the things
I talked to God the most about no matter how
successful you allow me to get, please let me remain humble.
I don't even want fame, success, money, wealth, whatever, without humble,
I don't want. I don't want it because I already
know that's not going to do good for me. That's
not that's not what I am. If I can't remain humble.
Have a lot of stuff I like, I like nice stuff,
(37:40):
but I don't want it if I can't remain if
I can't be humble with it.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, And I mean humble is like an adjective, and
I really see the way you turn that into a verb.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Is the service work?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, yeah, that you do being able to get back
and people see that like they either you don't. I mean,
like we don't have to do this. I don't have
to be here. I don't have to come here. I
come here because I choose to. I don't have to
do these things that you know, you know there's that
I got mine. You know that I'm good, right, you
know I'm good. But I choose to be where I am,
(38:15):
and you know, because that's the work that I've chosen.
That's that's the rate on this earth is to give back.
You know, I always say godless and use a whole
bunch of these things. He lets us have all this
nice stuff, but that's nothing. That's those are just tools.
The work on the earth is actually what are you doing?
And you want to be that person? Like even quote
(38:36):
unquote when this second generation baby is boy, right, and
questions are asked, what did you do when when George
Floyd or any anything happened in the world, Where were
you What were you doing? You want to be able
to answer that. I want to be able to answer that, right.
I want to be able to say, well, I did this,
and this is what I did. You know, I've accomplished
(38:58):
a lot of first in our state as a black man,
and on the first this and I'm the first that.
So hopefully some days somebody starts writing about me in
Black History Month. Thank you to yo writing about your boy.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Right about your boy?
Speaker 1 (39:14):
All right, So time is flying because you're dropping the
sauce about half of the time. I remember to say
at the end of the episode, I'm going to ask
you this question. Remember, the name of the book is
un addiction, unlearned. What we think we know undo stigma
that's killing people uncover the conversations. And so if there
(39:38):
is one thing that you want people to unlearn, one stigma,
you want them to undo, one conversation, you want them
to uncover, what is it?
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah, you got to unlearn that. I think for me
is that we're not our worst mistake.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Right.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
We make mistakes and we're going to continue to make them.
Date on the find us, right, So stop listening to
that that negative messaging and replace what positive. I had
to unlearn that. I struggled with that, like you know,
the we call it imposter syndrome, right, No matter what,
I'm always getting these negatives, Oh, you don't deserve to
be here, Oh this is gonna happen. And you know
(40:18):
that that you know, we call it tragic or you know,
kind of catastrophic, catastrophic, catastrophic thinking. Why do we think
like that? How come I can't win? You know my
mentor who passed away a few years ago, when I
was going through the storm, he came over and I
was like, you know, I was like, oh, man, no
(40:39):
one likes me, and he's like, you know, and I
was going through something and he said, well why not you?
Why not? And I was like, I hate when he
did that, right, he was like, why not you? And it?
So now I embraced that why not me? You know,
when I go through a storm, I say, you know what,
I'd bout there, It be me because I'm built for this,
(40:59):
versus it'd be somebody who can't, who might not be
built for this, who this might be the final straw.
They might take actions otherwise than going through the storm.
So I'd rather be me. I'll take that all day.
You know, we are the stone catchers, right, Let's catch
some stone trailers. I'd rather go through that. So, you know,
I learned accepting those negative messages about yourself and you
make a mistake, you know, own it and keep it moving.
(41:22):
So I would unlearn that that would be the first
thing because that's gonna that's going to propel you into
this world. Like you know, I've been going through stuff
and people all even call you and they will remind
you how bad your situation is. Like, yo, you know
what they said about you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Know what's going on?
Speaker 7 (41:37):
Yeah, I know, I know that's all right, that's all right,
you know how you doing though? I'm doing all right.
I'm doing that, nah man, I'm just checking on you.
Good man, I'm man. If it was me, I said,
I know, if it was you, you'd be hurting right now.
But me less, I'm standing there. I'm standing ten toes up.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Man, Let's go. Let's go. If not, because I know
the other side, when I get to the other side
of whatever trials and true relations that is, it's will
be one hundred percent stronger, knowledgeable and equipped with that
that You'll never be able to get me like that again.
You'll never be able to use that. It'll never be
because I'm skilled, right.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, I love that so much. So I'm going to
use that to close us out. You are not your
biggest mistake. And I want to come back to something
Darryl said earlier. You think you all that?
Speaker 5 (42:28):
Yes, absolutely, you are all that, all that, all that
believe that tell them tomorrow today.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
You know when I heard I'm all.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
That facts exactly. Thank you so much for coming, Darryl,
So you put in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
We definitely need people to check out the documentary Uprooting Addiction.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
We definitely need them to check out your ted X talk.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Thank you. Thank you formally in Connecticut, but we worldwide.
We're trying to be worldwide. Is that We are the
first criminal justice reform consulting organization fully staffed by people
would live experience of the criminal justice system. We do
technical assistance, we do talks, we do workshops, we talk
(43:21):
about on re entry. What we focus on re entry
and recovery. And that's one of the things that that's
my passionate. You know, the t is ted is something
I'm super excited about, but really being able to work
and try to employ. You know, my goal is to
be the largest employer of formally incarcerated people ever, like ever,
(43:41):
because I'm just all that. Yeah, ever, you know, because
you know, so many of our people get denied access
to employment and housing because of their criminal background. We
smile at that, like bring that to us. So let's
see how we can work with that. Times we can
help people. Sometimes we can't, but most of the times,
(44:03):
you know, if nothing else, we create, we create a
community of like minded people and we shoot them how
to get on the other side of that struggle. Follow
me on, Follow me on. I g Harry Tubman, Harriet
Harry Tubman a team. Follow me because I'm trying to
get more follows than my daughter. She got five thousand.
I got like two come on, man, hit me up,
(44:23):
follow me, follow me, shout me out.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Amazing and congratulations on the second generation baby.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh, thank you. Thank you for the term. We'll be
using it. If we you know, we might have to
break you off a little bit.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
You can just call the baby two.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
G Yeah, yeah, you know that's what we're gonna like it.
I like it, I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Thank you so much for tuning in. And if you
like this episode, please check out my book on Addiction.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available
at Barnes and Noble Bookshop, dot org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,
and wherever sold. If you like to this episode, please
share it with someone you think may need to hear it. Also,
please subscribe to this podcast and leave a five star
(45:10):
review that helps us reach any and everyone who may
be looking for support in the face of addiction.
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