May 28, 2024 • 38 mins
Marty Walsh has spent his life fighting for working people, as a labor leader, as a public official, and as a private citizen. Marty, the son of Irish immigrants, was born and raised in Boston’s Dorchester neighborhood. In 1997, at the age of 29, Marty won election to the Massachusetts House of Representatives, where he spent 16 years fighting for workers’ rights and good jobs. In 2013, he was elected Mayor of Boston, an office he served for seven years. He led Boston through a period of historic success, growing the city’s economy, reducing crime, investing in schools and libraries, and ending chronic homelessness among veterans in the city. In February 2023, Marty was appointed as the Executive Director of the National Hockey League Player's Association, returning to his roots as a labor leader where he can continue to champion the importance of workers’ rights and the shared benefits of collective bargaining for all.
Today's episode is called Alcoholics Anonymous 101 because Marty shares his deep respect for the program that saved his life. He and Nzinga discuss political legacy, the purpose that steers Marty's recovery, and what it means to give your recovery away. If you're curious about AA, struggling with isolation in your addiction, or have doubts about what your potential is as someone in recovery, listen to this episode.
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Dr. Nzinga Harrison's book, "Un-Addiction: Six Mind-Changing Conversations That Could Save a Life" is out now! Order here: https://www.nzingaharrisonmd.com/
Find Nzinga on Threads and X (Twitter): @nzingamd / LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nzingaharrisonmd/
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Questions? Email us at: unnaddictionpod@gmail.com
If you or a loved one are experiencing addiction, have questions about recovery, or need treatment tailored to you, visit eleanorhealth.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.
I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.
Marty Walsh served as the Mayor of Boston from twenty
fourteen to twenty twenty one and United States Secretary of
(00:44):
Labor in the Cabinet of President Joe Biden from twenty
twenty one to twenty twenty three. He has been sober
since nineteen ninety five and was the first ever Cabinet
member to openly be in a twelve step program for
recovery from addiction. Currently the executive director of the National
Hockey League Players Association. In our conversation, Marty emphasizes the
(01:08):
importance of connection and his commitment to paying forward the
legacy of AA and the twelve Steps to this day,
he will share his cell phone number freely in a
way that politicians usually don't, towards his aim to never
miss the call of a person who is reaching out
for help. Awesome, awesome, So thank you. How should I
(01:31):
refer to you with the proper amount of respect on
this podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Mary Mighty, Marty Marty, I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
From Indiana, So Marty, and yeah, so nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I was down in Indiana and a doctor gave me
the book Canary and the coal Mine. Yeah, I'm believing
the doctors on the plane, on the on the bus
with us, and I didn't realize that he was we
so you give me, give me, give me a book.
And I started reading about it and he's reading about
the Heroin epidemic and the AIDS outbreak, HIV break, and
(02:08):
I couldn't believe it the book and then you know,
I read obviously my pencils the government at the time,
and he eventually led a small needle exchange program in
but people coming from Chicago into Indiana with the needle
exchange program, and it was really it's an incredible book,
just incredible time that people were dying because of addiction
due to oxy cotton and Purdue FAMA, and you know,
(02:31):
people were resisting need exchange programs to keep people alive,
which was scary.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, and sadly the right verb there is not even
was like, is the same resist still going on today.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You know, which is incredible to me. It's just it's crazy.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, it's crazy. So welcome to the Unaddictioned Podcast. Marty Walsh,
I'm in saying. I'm an addiction psychiatrist, and I've written
this book called Unaddiction, and this podcast is accompanying the book.
So I'll tell you we made up the word on
addiction to reflect what we want people to unlearn that
(03:10):
they think they know about addiction, the stigma we want
to undo, and the conversations we want to uncover as
we try to get our arms around this addiction epidemic.
And so talking to people who have had their own
recovery journey really with the goal of learning and for
the listeners to hear the infinite faces of recovery so
(03:34):
that they can get ideas about either their own recovery
or people that they care about, care about, or systemic levels.
So that's what we're doing here on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, it's great, thank you for doing this is anytime
we have conversations around around addiction, substant use, disorder, stigma,
you know, all of that is so important because people
there's so many people out in the world that just
won't take that first step because of anything. And it
really is something that I've come across in my life
(04:06):
in being recovery for so long that you know, it's
just it's an amazing way of life. But you have
to get you have to get in the front door first.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, actually, not even find door. I just take the first.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Step, just the first step exactly. It might even get
you not all the way in the door, but every
step matters.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Right, it does.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
It's okay as long as you take that step and
have a safe space to do that. I think it's
really important. But thank you for having me today.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming. Okay, So I
always ask my first question, like a true psychiatrist, which is,
can you tell our listeners who is Marty Walsh and
how did you come to be who you are today?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Marty Walsh is myself. I'll give you my career first
and then I'll go back. I well, I grew up
in Boston and Dorchester, and the son of Irish immigrants.
They came from my island. My father came out in
nineteen fifty six from Ireland. My mother came out nineteen
fifty nine. They grew up very, very poor in Ireland,
and they came to America separately and met here to
(05:08):
really send money back home and support their family.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So they got married.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
They bought grew up three They bought a three family
in Dorchester. That's a three decker house. A lot of
people don't know what that is. It's three apartments on
top of each other. You know, urban areas have it,
you know. I went to grammar school in Boston, Dorchester,
Saint Margaret's, went to a high school Movement Prep. Dropped
out of high school, dropped out of college. I went
to college for a year, dropped out of college and
(05:33):
went to work construction. My father was a union laborer.
I worked in the field for a few years, and
then I went to work for the labour's Health and
Welfare Fund. And then after that I ran for office,
got elected to the House of Representatives in Massachusetts. I
started sixteen years in the House. I ran from Ara Boston.
(05:53):
I got elected, served seven years as mayor in junior
of twenty twenty one, President by and asked me to
call me up to ask me to be as Labor
Secretary for the United States of America. And I did
that for two years as in the President's Cabinet and
then I now I run the National Hockey Leagues Players Association.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I'm the executive director.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
H I left the peace out there, uh intentionally And
I just mentioned that that I dropped out of college
and went to work construction. And in that period of
my life, I was partying and having a lot of fun.
Drinking drugs is not part of my story. To the
point where my drinking went from being fun to not
(06:35):
being fun anymore, uh, to to blackouts and doing things
I thought I would never do, and just just completely
took my inside over and on the outside, the perception
was I'm active in the community, I was going to
run for office some day, and and and what what
what really happens? I found myself going to detox for alcoholism.
(06:58):
And that day I went to Dtox for alcoholism was
April thirtieth, nineteen ninety five. That was when I actually
went down to detox. I thought my life was completely over.
At that point, you know I can't hang at the
bar anymore. I can't hang with these people I used
to hang with. How am I going to run for office?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
How is this going to happen? How is not going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And when I went into Detox, the very first night
I was there, I went there to get the heat off.
I really didn't go there to get sober. I want
there to get the heat off. And my first night
in there, the counselor suggested a couple things to me.
One is listen in an AA meeting came in that night.
I had gone to one AA meeting in my life.
I got there at five minutes late, and I left
(07:38):
at the break, and I listened to I heard the speaker,
but I didn't really hear the speaker talk about their
journeys in recovery. But this night a speaker spoke. I'm
not sure what he said. I don't remember what he said.
It was a long time ago, but he I got hope.
And then the council suggests I get on my knees
and ask a higher power grade than myself to help me.
(08:01):
And I went in and I had a conversation with
my God. And it was the first time that I
remember having a real honest conversation. And anyway, long story short,
I was there for a week, I got out, I
joined AA, got a sponsor, I got active with my group,
and my life just kind of took off in a
very positive manner. That's when the opportunity for Rep came
and I was able to run for office and win.
(08:23):
If I lost, it would have been okay too. And
so a lot of things. Everything I have in my
life is due to my recovery, and it's given me
amazing opportunities and amazing experiences over the years. But what's
really important to me is to give it away. So
I try to get my recovery way to other people.
What that means is is be there somebody needs help,
try and listen to them, and try and help them
and guide them. You can't force people into recovery. You
(08:45):
can't force people to start taking drugs or stop drinking
alcohol or deal with mental health. But what you can
do is create a space for them. And that was
a pretty public figure. So very early on I talked.
I served with another state Rep who was very public
about it recovery. So I became public about my recovery
and I just think it's important because stigma is such
a big piece of getting into recovery as well. So
(09:08):
that's kind of in a nutshell, who I am, what
I'm all about now? I run the Hockey Player Association
and you know, still very active in the recovery community
and also offering support to players and their families if
they need it, or anyone for that matter.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, I love your emphasis on giving it away, right,
giving your recovery way. I think that's what we're asking
everybody that comes on this podcast to do. For everybody
who's listening. I feel like that's part of you being
on here today is creating that opportunity, that sense of hope,
the idea that it really can be for you for
(09:47):
people who are listening. And so I love to click
on because you started in alcoholics anonymous, and anonymous is
like keeping it a secret, which is the exact opposite
of what you're doing. Right, So, can you talk to
us about how seeing that other representative who was out
(10:09):
loud and proud about recovery kind of created the opportunity
for you to get over the shame and stigma that
we put on substance use disorders and also be kind
of a beacon of light for people.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, let me just talk about the anonymous program with
the alcoholics. Anonymous Alcoholics Anonomous is a program that if
you go to a meeting, it's it's incumbent upon me
not to talk about who I see there.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
So that's the that's the anonymous side of it.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's kind of it's kind of like, you know, if
I if I see a person in the meeting, I
shouldn't be going out saying, oh my god, I saw
so and so at the a meeting or withsonomous. Yeah,
for safety and for their own until they're comfortable with
where they are. But for me personally, I you know,
in being a public figure, I just felt like it's
okay for people to know. I think at first I
did it to let people know our sober in case
(11:00):
that thought that were crept into.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
My head of drinking again.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I think that subconsciously I did it for that reason.
And then after a while I did it so many
people would come up to me who were struggling and
it comes to me privately and said need some help.
And that also to let people know that I was
there for them and to give it away even though
I was an elected official, state representative, Mayor of Boston,
Secretary of Labor, whatever that means. They just titles it.
Really it was about I'm just a human being that
(11:25):
struggle with alcohol and that I want to be able
to be there. Somebody needs help and they might reach
out to their elected official. Back in the day when
I sat in politics, you reach out your elected official
for everything, like you know, parking ticket, liketed official job,
like the official, you know, whatever it might be. That
was how it worked back then, and I think for
me personally, it was kind of letting people know that
if they needed help, they could reach out to me.
(11:46):
And what I found was other colleagues of mine elected
officials not per se that they had an issue with
the drugs or alcohol, but their constituents or the family
members did, and they would come to me looking for
guidance and how to help because it's very complicated to
navigate the system of addiction. I mean, you can call
it detox, but generally there's not a bed available at
particular moment, and it's kind of and if you love
(12:08):
when it that moment is ready for a bed, the
next morning, they might not be. So I really haven't
been anonymous about my my program, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And it's it's you know, I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Maybe it's been intentional, I don't know, but uh, it's
it's I've been able to be able to give away
what I've received so many times over and the anonymous
side of it, like I don't I go to I
go to meetings, but I don't talk about who I
see in meetings.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Like that's something that that's on the individual.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
A lot of people, you know, take the anonymous part
of the program and they keep anonymous, but they still
give it away, you know what I mean. They hook
up with other people are struggling, or they get phone
calls and they give it away, their their recovery away.
When I say giveaway, they try to help people. So
that that's that's what we have to do. But I
think for people that are sitting home listening to the
(12:53):
podcast and you're being anonymous in your house and your
drinking or drugging in your afraid or you don't want
to make that first step, I guarantee you it's a
hide's first step. But the journey of recovery is unbelievable
and it's better it's almost it's better than any high
you get taking drugs for alcohol, because your whole life
(13:15):
sets to fall back in place, no matter what you
lost or who you lost. All that stuff, the material
stuff's just material. But those relationships, those family relationships, you
get those back over time because people love you and
trust you. It's just that the alcohol and drugs have
put up a wall between you and your family, or
your friends, or you loved ones, or whoever you're worried about.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, I love that really important distinction you made, which
is that it really is like empowering the individual person
to tell their own story. Right, So the anonymous is
that I'm not going to walk out of here and
tell somebody else's story, but I can walk out of
here and choose how I'm going to tell my story,
Use my story, live my story. I wanted to go back, Marty,
(13:59):
to something you said earlier when you were just giving
us your first thumbnail, and you were like, I was
partying and I was enjoying, and I was drinking until
I wasn't enjoying when I was drinking. When you look
back kind of with your your life informed twenty twenty vision,
now can you share with our listeners. Early warning signs
(14:21):
that you can see now that you didn't see then
that maybe helps somebody intervene if they're at an earlier point.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yeah, I mean ruining relationships.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, you know, you have a relationship with someone
and and their life is you know, you just content disappointment,
not showing out, blacking out, content disappointment, ruining holidays, driving,
you know, back when I was drinking, a lot of
driving going on. Back then uber and lyft wasn't the thing,
So people were blackouts or grayouts, and that means that
(14:54):
you're out having parties and you're drinking with your friends
and either blackout and don't remember the night, or you
gray out you remember, don't remember some of the night.
That's not healthy, you know, not being able to stop
a lot of people will say, you know, who are
alcoholic when you talk to the money, I can stop
after two bears.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I never have and never went out to a bar
and had two bears, never in my life. I just
couldn't have two bears.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It was six eight and twelve, drinking till whatever I
passed out, drinking till whatever I got thrown out, whatever
it might have been. And those are some of the
warning signs the public, the outside warning science. But really
what I find a lot of people get sober is
it's the inside feeling that that, oh I did it again,
feeling that that that emptiness in.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Your heart, that that that that.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You know, not knowing where to turn to, and we
all have it, and it's kind of like, how am
I going to get out of this? How am I
going to move my life forward? That's kind of all
of the things that that I experienced. And you know,
when I started drinking as as a teenager, it was fun, right,
didn't have a lot of losses, didn't have a lot
of things to lose at the beginning, and it's a
(15:57):
disease the progression and as my progress, so obviously my
life progress and I had a little more in my life,
so there was more opportunity to lose things, whether it's
relationships and things like that. So you know, it kind
of goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, I think that is so huge. I love that
the internal signs actually show up before the external signs,
and I think a.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Lot of it.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Don't tell anybody, that's right, You don't exactly what I
was about to say.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's not you can talk to your friends that I
feel kind of depressed and like I'm not feeling right,
Like you're not going to share that, and it's poosh
in its drugs, and it's kind of like that that
that that's to tear away you're inner.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Being Yeap, exactly exactly what I was thinking about when
you said that. And so another thing you said, you
were like, I thought my life was going to be over.
And I hear this a lot the people that I
serve that are getting in recovery from addiction or actively
in addiction and kind of struggling with taking that first step.
And one of the things I'm so acutely aware of
(16:59):
is like it's all around right, Like alcohol is literally
in the very fabric of everything we do every single
day in this country. And so even when you get
to the point where you've taken the first step, say
your goal for yourself is complete abstinence, how do you
help people navigate the conversation around happy hour at work,
(17:25):
drinks for a business lunch, drinks at the family cookout? Right? Super?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I mean yeah, I think the thing is when you
think about putting down the drink and drug and you
go into a recovery, whether through a detox or through doctors,
or through whatever it might be, just abstinence, however you
decide to do it. It's about living a mindset of
the day at a time. You know, you don't, look
what am I going to do around Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Christmas is coming then? And how do I not drink
at Christmas time? How do I not drink it?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
New Year's even overwhelming?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I gotta drink. You know, you deal with the day
at a time. I mean, you try to put your
life in that day, and is that you can't do.
Yesterday's gone. There's nothing you can do by yesterday. Tomorrow
is not here yet. You don't know what's going to happen.
All you can do is focus on today. And you know,
when I first got sober, I said the Certainty prayer
every like ten minutes, because not that I desire to drink,
(18:19):
but I said the Sertendy prayer. I just to try.
And the higher power piece of of of the program.
It's not it's not a God program. It's really about
thinking about you know, how do.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You how do you use a higher power?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Your grandmother, you Graham passed away, or somebody else, just
to kind of add that component to yourself because you
need that help to get through the program. And don't
put yourself in situations like how do you get how
do you do it happy? How you don't go to
happy hour? And don't put yourself in situations like how
do you get how do you do it happy? How
you don't go to happy how? I remember the first
(18:53):
time I ever spoken alcoholicxronomous meeting. I was ninety days
sober roughly, and I got up to the podium. I
spoke for twelve minutes I think it was, and I
talked about a bunch of different things. How I feel
I was great, My life was happy, I was doing great.
Things are wonderful. And I said, you know, I still
go to the bar, I drink it, and I drink
a ginger ale, and you know, just kind of telling
my story.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And then after the meeting, like one hundred people come
over to me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
They're like, yeah, Marty, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
But it's you have to be able to talk to
another human being as well. You need to be able
to have the you can't hold. It's like being being
an active active in your illness. If you're not talking
to people it's only gonna it's only gonna get worse
inside you when you when you get into recovery, whether
it's day one or day ten or day whatever, it is,
(19:39):
talking to another human being about your problems is really
important and having those conversations, and that's really where a
sponsor comes into play. Somebody's been to recovery before, so
you can because everyone's gone through it. So no matter
where you are in recovery, whether you're a day sober
or twenty years sober, there's challenges, and you want to
talk to people that have sobriety, that have gone through
the challenges. I mean, when you get sober, it doesn't
(20:01):
mean your life gets perfect and everything's wonderful. You know,
family members, parents die, people get sick, your financial strabagals,
all that stuff. Life happens, but you can handle it
better with a clear minds and a clear heart than
if you were medicating it with booze and drugs.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah. I don't want to make the assumption that everybody
listening knows the Serenity prayer. And I love the Sobritary Prayer.
I apply it to like all parts of my life
at all times. So do you mind just share it
with us and why it was so meaningful for you
every day?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, you know, it's the prayer.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know, God grant me the serenity to accept the
things I cannot change, the courage to change the things
I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. And
I would take those three concepts in the prayer and
try and dissect them to understand what does it mean?
You know, God grant me the serenity to accept the
things that cannot change, meaning that I can't change things
in life, and give me the serenity to understand that,
(21:00):
accept the thing, you know, and go through the prayer.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
And I would read it and say.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
My own head over and over and over again and
try and understand the meaning of the prayer and dissect
what the meaning of the prayer means for me.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
And I say it every day still.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
But when I first got so old, I said it
all the time because that that helped me when I
had a moment of just like, you know, the the.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Efforts as I call it. I won't say it on
the podcast, but you know I would just I say.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
You can say the efforts on the picot.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It would it would bring me right back to where
I need today. Yeah, and I still say today. I mean,
you know, it's I still say today.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Mm hmmmm hmm. It applies to everything. And I mean
even like you know, I'm really into helping people develop skills.
So these mantras and these prayers are a huge part
of that. And so like, God, grant me the serenity
to know the things I cannot change when you're in
the midst of a struggle, like just asking yourself, is
(21:58):
this something I can change? And if it's not right,
the acceptance that this is not something I can change.
The wisdom like getting to the wisdom is asking yourself,
is this something I can change? Or is something I
will accept and find a gift and opportunity in it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
No, it's amazing and I think that you know that.
And then talking to people, it's funny you mentioned about
the tools of the trade, and I learned early on
about sugar. If you're an alcoholic and you're struggling with alcohol.
So I was working with, not working with at a
colleague of mine who was on a conference for work,
(22:38):
and she was newly sober and she wanted to drink
so bad. She called me out. Thank god, she called
me and she said, I really want to drink tonight.
I said, I knew who she was. I said, is
there an ice cream shop near where you are?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Go have a frap, I said, And after you have
a frap, call me up if you still want to drink.
So she went out and got a frap and she
called me out and she goes, how'd you know that?
I said, no, what she was. I don't have a
desire to drink anymore. It's it's the craving of the sugar,
but it's also your brain telling you to drink. So again,
it's little tricks of that I learned, But you don't
(23:13):
learn them if you're not out of a program. Yeah,
and you don't learn if if you're not talking support person.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
If you're not talking to somebody who knows the tricks.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So I think of it the same way like we
don't add ask a race car driver to drive a
race car without having a coach. We don't ask a
hockey player to play professional hockey without having a coach
to share these tips and tricks, and so addiction and
the stigma that we've wrapped around addiction tricks people into
(23:43):
thinking you have to be silent and do it all
by yourself, and that actually can't yeah, and it's it's human.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
No, you can't do it by yourself and you can't.
But we can't do anything by ourself, Like there's nothing
we can do about currently. There's nothing in life that
you think about. What you do in life, whatever it
is you do, you need somebody with you to do
it at some point, like it doesn't matter anything, you know,
And it's kind of like this, why would it be
different trying to get into recovery.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
It gets sober by not having support around you.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, totally, but we try to make it like it's different,
like the shoulds right because it's addiction. You should and
it's like, no, get it out of your head, like
we're pack animals. We need each other in all things
this included.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
No, that's true.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And the stigma, the sigma piece of a lot of
it today too, is is that you have people have
in people listening today that are struggling right now. Your
stigma is because you've made so many mistakes in your
life and so many so many oh my gods and
oops and I didn't mean it in your life and
you've apologized a million times, and when you get into recovery,
(24:55):
those apologies eventually down the road are different, and it's
it's it's since. I mean, I remember when I talked
about praying when I went to detox. I used to
pray when I was in the detox. I prayed to
hit keynotes, I could keep drinking. I prayed, get me
out of a gym. I prayed that I wouldn't get
in trouble. I'd pray this, I pray. I'd be praying,
but I prayed for all the wrong reasons, and I
(25:16):
wasn't praying the real you know, it wasn't like asking God,
my case, God to help me, help me understand what
I'm doing wrong.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And you know it really is.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
You know, the stigma of it is is a lot
of some today, I think today a little more than
in the past. It's self impost stigma. I think there
were a lot of families in the United States, in
the world, most families in the world, not all. Most
families in the world have somebody in their family that
is dealing that is dealing with something, whether it's mental
(25:47):
health or substance hues or whatever it might be. So
it's not like, and more people are talking about it
today than even when I first got into the program Alcoochem,
when I first got sober in ninety seven, ninety five,
I should say, and then in ninety seven I gotta
lect it, more people are talking about say. So that
stigma is again that it goes along with the feeling
(26:08):
inside that the you know that you're not worth it,
and anyone, everyone who's struggling right now is worth it.
Everyone's worth it.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
It's just and I you know, when I get somebody,
when I try to talk to people, I just offer
them a hand and if they're ready for it, they'll
take it. And if they're not ready for it, you
just you wait for the call and hope.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That the call comes. And the sad pod is I've.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Known a lot of people that couldn't make the call
because their life ended before the call was made. Yeah,
and that's another thing that's really hard. And generally when
I see that, when you see some of you guys
in active addiction, you go to their wake and there's
thousands of people there, and they generally died alone, thinking
no one loves them, when in fact it is completely
(26:52):
the opposite. They might be angry at them at the moment,
but they do. They do understand if they give you
over time.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
M h.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I want to magnify what you said. Anybody who is
struggling today, you are worth it. And even though this
addiction has your brain tricked to make you think the
people around you don't care, they care so deeply. That's
why this disease is so hurtful. If they didn't care,
they wouldn't be hurt by it. They wouldn't be angry.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
That's true, and they're tired. Some family members are tied.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
We have an area in Boston called mass and Casts
and we have a lot of active addiction going on
down there. And you know, I often say like that,
and a lot of the people down on Massive Casts
are intermingle with the homeless people and people in the country.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
People in Boston they said, oh, they're all homeless. They're
really not homeless. They're out of their home.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
They're homeless because of their active, active using of drugs
and alcohol.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
And if they're able to get sober, there's a place
to go back to. But you know, you have to.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Build that trust up too, and that's why they don't
let don't let stigma and stubbornness and not understanding.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Keep you away from being read in your family. Take
that first.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Step, yep, yep. So I'm gonna give you a sneak
peek into the final question that I ask everybody, which
is And we're not gonna do it right now. We
have a few more minutes before we get to the final.
But if there's one thing that you want listeners to
walk away from hearing your journey and your story today,
one thing you want them to unlearn, or one stigma
(28:23):
you want them to undo, or one conversation you want
them to uncover, what would it be? But not no, no, no, no,
not right now? That's the fine art might all right,
So before we get to that question, another thing that
I think is hugely important as people ground their feet
and recovery, for what that means for them is the
(28:45):
sense of life, meaning and purpose. And I get the
sense from you, Marty that you have a really solid
perspective on what your purpose in life is and what
meaning and life means for you. Are you comfortable sharing
with our listeners one am, I am? I you know
(29:05):
receiving you? Is that accurate? And two? If so, what
that is and how you came to know what it is.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I've been very blessed in my life to have amazing opportunities,
serving sixteen years in the House Representatives, seven years is
mayor of the City of Boston, two years in a
presidential cabinet, and now.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
As the director of the Hockey Player Association.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And I often people often ask me about.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
What is it in politics? Do you want your legacy
to be?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Because everyone's focused on legacy, and I really am not
concerned about my legacy. What I want to do is
be able to help people get to wherever it is
they want to get to, whether it's help them get
a job in recovery, help them get sober, you know,
Like I think my purpose is to help people. And
then that's a broad range of whatever it might be,
(29:56):
depending on the circumstance. That's what I enjoy doing. That's
what I love doing in life. I don't need a
bridge named after me, I don't need a building named
after me. And that's you know, some people feel that
that's what they want in their life or building or
whatever it might be. I want to be able to
point back and say I helped I was there to
be able to help somebody when they made the phone
call when I ran from mayor in twenty thirteen. I
(30:19):
have a cell phone. I have a cell phone number,
and that number in twenty thirteen was probably ten years old,
and I got a lot of calls in that phone.
And I remember being at a meeting in my campaign
office with the leadership of the campaign saying you need
to change your number, you get too many calls. I said,
I can't change the number because I don't want to
miss the call. And ironically, a couple weeks later, whenever
(30:40):
it was later, I was in a finance meeting in
the campaign office at my phone rang and it was
it was a person in active active alcoholism, and I said,
I got to take this call, and I jump I
jumped off out of the campaign meeting. It was a
finance meeting from mayor of Boston, and I got the
phone call, and I took a call and whatever, you
had the phone conversation with the person other than the phone,
(31:02):
and I went back to the meeting and the next
day one of the people at worked for me said
to me, can we talk about yesterday? I said yeah,
and she said that was pretty incredible what you did,
So what are you talking about you is you get
a phone call somebody looking for help to get into treatment,
and you stopped the finance meeting for your campaign. And
I said, that's what life's all about. And I never
(31:23):
you know, I have my number. I don't change my number.
I don't want to miss that call.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I did miss a call once. Family call me trying
to get their son into DETOKS. I was at a
state rep at the time. I didn't never a cell phone,
I don't believe, and they called the office. And when
I got in the office Monday, I got in the
call from my mother who was trying to get her
son into DTOKS and he had overdosed that weekend.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So you know, I don't plan. I'm not. I'm not,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I don't blame myself for that, but you want to
be able to be there as much as possible. So
I think that the way I want, the way I
live my life is trying to help people every day,
one day at a time, and do you know, do
as much as I can.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, that was so powerful and I love like you said,
it's a big umbrella and it gets manifest in many ways,
but it always comes back to that central core and
meaning for you, which is helping other people. Yeah, did
you ever did you ever not know that that was
your life meaning? Like, was there a process or your purpose?
(32:17):
Was there a process of finding that or uncovering it
for yourself? Because I think a lot of people don't
know what purpose I mean.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think I think you know, I grew up in
Boston Dorchester. I wanted to be in politics. I was
active in the neighborhood, and you know, I wanted to
get elected.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I got elected.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I served sixteen years and the House Representatives. And I
think over time it defined, you know, whatever you do
with life defines who you are and defines what your
real calling is. And I don't know if my calling
is politics. I don't know if I clearly I have
been in it for a long time. I'm not sure
what my calling is. But but you know, over time,
you know, in recovery, understanding the program, the program about
(32:57):
austrononomous and about giving it away and sharing, sobriety and
understanding you're following the people that came before you, and
you're learning and you had to give away to the
people that come after you, and understanding that it's a
day at a time so all of that stuff I
learned over time. So I, you know, I think my
calling is a kid. I wanted to be in politics.
I wanted to be elected.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I just want to be elective, that's you know, I
didn't have this idea concept of what that meant. I
just want to be put my name on a ballot,
get my name on a bump a stick or on
a sign to get elected. And then all the time done, yeah, done,
And you get that, you realize like what really is?
You know, you find out who you really are and
what you're really about, and that's you know, you try
(33:37):
not to lose sight of that, and try not to
lose sight of So anyone listening today, Like the one
thing I want to say to people listening, like, I
don't care what situation you're in your life. I don't
care how low you are, I don't care what you've done.
I don't care how much boos you drink, how much
drugs you've taken, all of that, if you give yourself
(33:57):
a chance, all of that is still part of your
life's journey, but it will make you stronger as a
human being if you deal with that moving forward. So
so you know, all of that is so important for
people to realize that if you take that first step,
and you might not want to take that first step,
but you're tired, you're ready for it.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Just give yourself a chance. All that stuff can be
dealt with. You deal with the record they call it
records or your past. You deal with the records. I've
dealt with it, and I still have records in my past.
I have to deal with that I haven't dealt with.
But you deal with that, and and you know your
life is worth it.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Mm hmmm hmm. Give yourself a chance. All right, Well,
this time always flies faster then I want it to.
But I think we can roll into our last question,
which is some people say one, undo, unlearn, uncover, some
(34:55):
people give one and eat whatever is on your heart
and soul. This this afternoon, Marty Walls. One thing you
want people to unlearn, undo or a conversation to uncover
that you think would really get us on the path
to stemming this addiction crisis.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Undo, unlearn, uncover. I think it's what I said earlier.
Because you've lived your life a certain way, and you've
struggled for so long with drugs and alcohol, you can
undo the damage that you cost by taking the first step.
(35:39):
You might not see it today, but if you get
into recovery, you will see it. I am extremely grateful.
I often say this to people if if I said
this a bunch of time, If I get hit by
a bus tonight after this podcast and my life is
over for whatever reason, sickness, whatever it might be, I
(36:02):
tell people, don't feel bad for me, because I've lived
a full life, because I've gotten into recovery and I've
been able to do that. So you know, you can undo,
unlearn a lot of things in life by taking care
of yourself. And I want people to know that you're
not alone in this journey. There are millions and millions
of people in recovery, but there are millions and millions
(36:25):
and millions of friends and supporters of all of us
out there that that are doing podcasts and writing books
and talking to us and fighting in state houses around
the country and legislatures and down in Congress, and you know,
you know, as high as the President's office. I mean,
you have so many people that that that that that
are that are in this space with us that it's
(36:46):
very different than the people that came before us that
didn't have the support networks that.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Are out there today. I don't know. I don't know
if that answers the question, oh.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
That was there are no wrong answers. That was absolutely beautiful,
by the way, because I think so how much of
what is deadly about this epidemic you said it before,
one the idea that you're in it by yourself, to
the idea that there's nobody fighting for you, and so
(37:14):
like you have insider knowledge about the people who are
fighting for a chance for people with addiction to experience
recovery all the way up to the President's office. I mean,
I think it's just really powerful. Yeah, yeah, really powerful.
So thank you, thank you so much Marty Wallace for
(37:34):
coming on the Addiction what is it called? Un Addiction Podcast?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I love thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
This has been awesome. I really appreciate it, all right.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Thank you very much having me.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Thank you so much for tuning in. And if you
liked this episode, please check out my book on Addiction,
Six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available
at Barnes and Noble, Shop dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,
and wherever books are sold. If you like to this episode,
please share it with someone you think may need to
(38:10):
hear it. Also, please subscribe to this podcast and leave
a five star review that helps us reach any and
everyone who may be looking for support in the face
of addiction.
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.
I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.
Marty Walsh served as the Mayor of Boston from twenty
fourteen to twenty twenty one and United States Secretary of
(00:44):
Labor in the Cabinet of President Joe Biden from twenty
twenty one to twenty twenty three. He has been sober
since nineteen ninety five and was the first ever Cabinet
member to openly be in a twelve step program for
recovery from addiction. Currently the executive director of the National
Hockey League Players Association. In our conversation, Marty emphasizes the
(01:08):
importance of connection and his commitment to paying forward the
legacy of AA and the twelve Steps to this day,
he will share his cell phone number freely in a
way that politicians usually don't, towards his aim to never
miss the call of a person who is reaching out
for help. Awesome, awesome, So thank you. How should I
(01:31):
refer to you with the proper amount of respect on
this podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Mary Mighty, Marty Marty, I'm.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
From Indiana, So Marty, and yeah, so nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I was down in Indiana and a doctor gave me
the book Canary and the coal Mine. Yeah, I'm believing
the doctors on the plane, on the on the bus
with us, and I didn't realize that he was we
so you give me, give me, give me a book.
And I started reading about it and he's reading about
the Heroin epidemic and the AIDS outbreak, HIV break, and
(02:08):
I couldn't believe it the book and then you know,
I read obviously my pencils the government at the time,
and he eventually led a small needle exchange program in
but people coming from Chicago into Indiana with the needle
exchange program, and it was really it's an incredible book,
just incredible time that people were dying because of addiction
due to oxy cotton and Purdue FAMA, and you know,
(02:31):
people were resisting need exchange programs to keep people alive,
which was scary.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, and sadly the right verb there is not even
was like, is the same resist still going on today.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You know, which is incredible to me. It's just it's crazy.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, it's crazy. So welcome to the Unaddictioned Podcast. Marty Walsh,
I'm in saying. I'm an addiction psychiatrist, and I've written
this book called Unaddiction, and this podcast is accompanying the book.
So I'll tell you we made up the word on
addiction to reflect what we want people to unlearn that
(03:10):
they think they know about addiction, the stigma we want
to undo, and the conversations we want to uncover as
we try to get our arms around this addiction epidemic.
And so talking to people who have had their own
recovery journey really with the goal of learning and for
the listeners to hear the infinite faces of recovery so
(03:34):
that they can get ideas about either their own recovery
or people that they care about, care about, or systemic levels.
So that's what we're doing here on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, it's great, thank you for doing this is anytime
we have conversations around around addiction, substant use, disorder, stigma,
you know, all of that is so important because people
there's so many people out in the world that just
won't take that first step because of anything. And it
really is something that I've come across in my life
(04:06):
in being recovery for so long that you know, it's
just it's an amazing way of life. But you have
to get you have to get in the front door first.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, actually, not even find door. I just take the first.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Step, just the first step exactly. It might even get
you not all the way in the door, but every
step matters.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Right, it does.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
It's okay as long as you take that step and
have a safe space to do that. I think it's
really important. But thank you for having me today.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, thank you so much for coming. Okay, So I
always ask my first question, like a true psychiatrist, which is,
can you tell our listeners who is Marty Walsh and
how did you come to be who you are today?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Marty Walsh is myself. I'll give you my career first
and then I'll go back. I well, I grew up
in Boston and Dorchester, and the son of Irish immigrants.
They came from my island. My father came out in
nineteen fifty six from Ireland. My mother came out nineteen
fifty nine. They grew up very, very poor in Ireland,
and they came to America separately and met here to
(05:08):
really send money back home and support their family.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So they got married.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
They bought grew up three They bought a three family
in Dorchester. That's a three decker house. A lot of
people don't know what that is. It's three apartments on
top of each other. You know, urban areas have it,
you know. I went to grammar school in Boston, Dorchester,
Saint Margaret's, went to a high school Movement Prep. Dropped
out of high school, dropped out of college. I went
to college for a year, dropped out of college and
(05:33):
went to work construction. My father was a union laborer.
I worked in the field for a few years, and
then I went to work for the labour's Health and
Welfare Fund. And then after that I ran for office,
got elected to the House of Representatives in Massachusetts. I
started sixteen years in the House. I ran from Ara Boston.
(05:53):
I got elected, served seven years as mayor in junior
of twenty twenty one, President by and asked me to
call me up to ask me to be as Labor
Secretary for the United States of America. And I did
that for two years as in the President's Cabinet and
then I now I run the National Hockey Leagues Players Association.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I'm the executive director.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
H I left the peace out there, uh intentionally And
I just mentioned that that I dropped out of college
and went to work construction. And in that period of
my life, I was partying and having a lot of fun.
Drinking drugs is not part of my story. To the
point where my drinking went from being fun to not
(06:35):
being fun anymore, uh, to to blackouts and doing things
I thought I would never do, and just just completely
took my inside over and on the outside, the perception
was I'm active in the community, I was going to
run for office some day, and and and what what
what really happens? I found myself going to detox for alcoholism.
(06:58):
And that day I went to Dtox for alcoholism was
April thirtieth, nineteen ninety five. That was when I actually
went down to detox. I thought my life was completely over.
At that point, you know I can't hang at the
bar anymore. I can't hang with these people I used
to hang with. How am I going to run for office?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
How is this going to happen? How is not going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And when I went into Detox, the very first night
I was there, I went there to get the heat off.
I really didn't go there to get sober. I want
there to get the heat off. And my first night
in there, the counselor suggested a couple things to me.
One is listen in an AA meeting came in that night.
I had gone to one AA meeting in my life.
I got there at five minutes late, and I left
(07:38):
at the break, and I listened to I heard the speaker,
but I didn't really hear the speaker talk about their
journeys in recovery. But this night a speaker spoke. I'm
not sure what he said. I don't remember what he said.
It was a long time ago, but he I got hope.
And then the council suggests I get on my knees
and ask a higher power grade than myself to help me.
(08:01):
And I went in and I had a conversation with
my God. And it was the first time that I
remember having a real honest conversation. And anyway, long story short,
I was there for a week, I got out, I
joined AA, got a sponsor, I got active with my group,
and my life just kind of took off in a
very positive manner. That's when the opportunity for Rep came
and I was able to run for office and win.
(08:23):
If I lost, it would have been okay too. And
so a lot of things. Everything I have in my
life is due to my recovery, and it's given me
amazing opportunities and amazing experiences over the years. But what's
really important to me is to give it away. So
I try to get my recovery way to other people.
What that means is is be there somebody needs help,
try and listen to them, and try and help them
and guide them. You can't force people into recovery. You
(08:45):
can't force people to start taking drugs or stop drinking
alcohol or deal with mental health. But what you can
do is create a space for them. And that was
a pretty public figure. So very early on I talked.
I served with another state Rep who was very public
about it recovery. So I became public about my recovery
and I just think it's important because stigma is such
a big piece of getting into recovery as well. So
(09:08):
that's kind of in a nutshell, who I am, what
I'm all about now? I run the Hockey Player Association
and you know, still very active in the recovery community
and also offering support to players and their families if
they need it, or anyone for that matter.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, I love your emphasis on giving it away, right,
giving your recovery way. I think that's what we're asking
everybody that comes on this podcast to do. For everybody
who's listening. I feel like that's part of you being
on here today is creating that opportunity, that sense of hope,
the idea that it really can be for you for
(09:47):
people who are listening. And so I love to click
on because you started in alcoholics anonymous, and anonymous is
like keeping it a secret, which is the exact opposite
of what you're doing. Right, So, can you talk to
us about how seeing that other representative who was out
(10:09):
loud and proud about recovery kind of created the opportunity
for you to get over the shame and stigma that
we put on substance use disorders and also be kind
of a beacon of light for people.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, let me just talk about the anonymous program with
the alcoholics. Anonymous Alcoholics Anonomous is a program that if
you go to a meeting, it's it's incumbent upon me
not to talk about who I see there.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
So that's the that's the anonymous side of it.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's kind of it's kind of like, you know, if
I if I see a person in the meeting, I
shouldn't be going out saying, oh my god, I saw
so and so at the a meeting or withsonomous. Yeah,
for safety and for their own until they're comfortable with
where they are. But for me personally, I you know,
in being a public figure, I just felt like it's
okay for people to know. I think at first I
did it to let people know our sober in case
(11:00):
that thought that were crept into.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
My head of drinking again.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I think that subconsciously I did it for that reason.
And then after a while I did it so many
people would come up to me who were struggling and
it comes to me privately and said need some help.
And that also to let people know that I was
there for them and to give it away even though
I was an elected official, state representative, Mayor of Boston,
Secretary of Labor, whatever that means. They just titles it.
Really it was about I'm just a human being that
(11:25):
struggle with alcohol and that I want to be able
to be there. Somebody needs help and they might reach
out to their elected official. Back in the day when
I sat in politics, you reach out your elected official
for everything, like you know, parking ticket, liketed official job,
like the official, you know, whatever it might be. That
was how it worked back then, and I think for
me personally, it was kind of letting people know that
if they needed help, they could reach out to me.
(11:46):
And what I found was other colleagues of mine elected
officials not per se that they had an issue with
the drugs or alcohol, but their constituents or the family
members did, and they would come to me looking for
guidance and how to help because it's very complicated to
navigate the system of addiction. I mean, you can call
it detox, but generally there's not a bed available at
particular moment, and it's kind of and if you love
(12:08):
when it that moment is ready for a bed, the
next morning, they might not be. So I really haven't
been anonymous about my my program, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And it's it's you know, I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Maybe it's been intentional, I don't know, but uh, it's
it's I've been able to be able to give away
what I've received so many times over and the anonymous
side of it, like I don't I go to I
go to meetings, but I don't talk about who I
see in meetings.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Like that's something that that's on the individual.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
A lot of people, you know, take the anonymous part
of the program and they keep anonymous, but they still
give it away, you know what I mean. They hook
up with other people are struggling, or they get phone
calls and they give it away, their their recovery away.
When I say giveaway, they try to help people. So
that that's that's what we have to do. But I
think for people that are sitting home listening to the
(12:53):
podcast and you're being anonymous in your house and your
drinking or drugging in your afraid or you don't want
to make that first step, I guarantee you it's a
hide's first step. But the journey of recovery is unbelievable
and it's better it's almost it's better than any high
you get taking drugs for alcohol, because your whole life
(13:15):
sets to fall back in place, no matter what you
lost or who you lost. All that stuff, the material
stuff's just material. But those relationships, those family relationships, you
get those back over time because people love you and
trust you. It's just that the alcohol and drugs have
put up a wall between you and your family, or
your friends, or you loved ones, or whoever you're worried about.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, I love that really important distinction you made, which
is that it really is like empowering the individual person
to tell their own story. Right, So the anonymous is
that I'm not going to walk out of here and
tell somebody else's story, but I can walk out of
here and choose how I'm going to tell my story,
Use my story, live my story. I wanted to go back, Marty,
(13:59):
to something you said earlier when you were just giving
us your first thumbnail, and you were like, I was
partying and I was enjoying, and I was drinking until
I wasn't enjoying when I was drinking. When you look
back kind of with your your life informed twenty twenty vision,
now can you share with our listeners. Early warning signs
(14:21):
that you can see now that you didn't see then
that maybe helps somebody intervene if they're at an earlier point.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yeah, I mean ruining relationships.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, you know, you have a relationship with someone
and and their life is you know, you just content disappointment,
not showing out, blacking out, content disappointment, ruining holidays, driving,
you know, back when I was drinking, a lot of
driving going on. Back then uber and lyft wasn't the thing,
So people were blackouts or grayouts, and that means that
(14:54):
you're out having parties and you're drinking with your friends
and either blackout and don't remember the night, or you
gray out you remember, don't remember some of the night.
That's not healthy, you know, not being able to stop
a lot of people will say, you know, who are
alcoholic when you talk to the money, I can stop
after two bears.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I never have and never went out to a bar
and had two bears, never in my life. I just
couldn't have two bears.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It was six eight and twelve, drinking till whatever I
passed out, drinking till whatever I got thrown out, whatever
it might have been. And those are some of the
warning signs the public, the outside warning science. But really
what I find a lot of people get sober is
it's the inside feeling that that, oh I did it again,
feeling that that that emptiness in.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Your heart, that that that that.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You know, not knowing where to turn to, and we
all have it, and it's kind of like, how am
I going to get out of this? How am I
going to move my life forward? That's kind of all
of the things that that I experienced. And you know,
when I started drinking as as a teenager, it was fun, right,
didn't have a lot of losses, didn't have a lot
of things to lose at the beginning, and it's a
(15:57):
disease the progression and as my progress, so obviously my
life progress and I had a little more in my life,
so there was more opportunity to lose things, whether it's
relationships and things like that. So you know, it kind
of goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, I think that is so huge. I love that
the internal signs actually show up before the external signs,
and I think a.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Lot of it.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Don't tell anybody, that's right, You don't exactly what I
was about to say.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's not you can talk to your friends that I
feel kind of depressed and like I'm not feeling right,
Like you're not going to share that, and it's poosh
in its drugs, and it's kind of like that that
that that's to tear away you're inner.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Being Yeap, exactly exactly what I was thinking about when
you said that. And so another thing you said, you
were like, I thought my life was going to be over.
And I hear this a lot the people that I
serve that are getting in recovery from addiction or actively
in addiction and kind of struggling with taking that first step.
And one of the things I'm so acutely aware of
(16:59):
is like it's all around right, Like alcohol is literally
in the very fabric of everything we do every single
day in this country. And so even when you get
to the point where you've taken the first step, say
your goal for yourself is complete abstinence, how do you
help people navigate the conversation around happy hour at work,
(17:25):
drinks for a business lunch, drinks at the family cookout? Right? Super?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I mean yeah, I think the thing is when you
think about putting down the drink and drug and you
go into a recovery, whether through a detox or through doctors,
or through whatever it might be, just abstinence, however you
decide to do it. It's about living a mindset of
the day at a time. You know, you don't, look
what am I going to do around Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Christmas is coming then? And how do I not drink
at Christmas time? How do I not drink it?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
New Year's even overwhelming?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I gotta drink. You know, you deal with the day
at a time. I mean, you try to put your
life in that day, and is that you can't do.
Yesterday's gone. There's nothing you can do by yesterday. Tomorrow
is not here yet. You don't know what's going to happen.
All you can do is focus on today. And you know,
when I first got sober, I said the Certainty prayer
every like ten minutes, because not that I desire to drink,
(18:19):
but I said the Sertendy prayer. I just to try.
And the higher power piece of of of the program.
It's not it's not a God program. It's really about
thinking about you know, how do.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You how do you use a higher power?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Your grandmother, you Graham passed away, or somebody else, just
to kind of add that component to yourself because you
need that help to get through the program. And don't
put yourself in situations like how do you get how
do you do it happy? How you don't go to
happy hour? And don't put yourself in situations like how
do you get how do you do it happy? How
you don't go to happy how? I remember the first
(18:53):
time I ever spoken alcoholicxronomous meeting. I was ninety days
sober roughly, and I got up to the podium. I
spoke for twelve minutes I think it was, and I
talked about a bunch of different things. How I feel
I was great, My life was happy, I was doing great.
Things are wonderful. And I said, you know, I still
go to the bar, I drink it, and I drink
a ginger ale, and you know, just kind of telling
my story.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And then after the meeting, like one hundred people come
over to me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
They're like, yeah, Marty, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
But it's you have to be able to talk to
another human being as well. You need to be able
to have the you can't hold. It's like being being
an active active in your illness. If you're not talking
to people it's only gonna it's only gonna get worse
inside you when you when you get into recovery, whether
it's day one or day ten or day whatever, it is,
(19:39):
talking to another human being about your problems is really
important and having those conversations, and that's really where a
sponsor comes into play. Somebody's been to recovery before, so
you can because everyone's gone through it. So no matter
where you are in recovery, whether you're a day sober
or twenty years sober, there's challenges, and you want to
talk to people that have sobriety, that have gone through
the challenges. I mean, when you get sober, it doesn't
(20:01):
mean your life gets perfect and everything's wonderful. You know,
family members, parents die, people get sick, your financial strabagals,
all that stuff. Life happens, but you can handle it
better with a clear minds and a clear heart than
if you were medicating it with booze and drugs.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah. I don't want to make the assumption that everybody
listening knows the Serenity prayer. And I love the Sobritary Prayer.
I apply it to like all parts of my life
at all times. So do you mind just share it
with us and why it was so meaningful for you
every day?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, you know, it's the prayer.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know, God grant me the serenity to accept the
things I cannot change, the courage to change the things
I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. And
I would take those three concepts in the prayer and
try and dissect them to understand what does it mean?
You know, God grant me the serenity to accept the
things that cannot change, meaning that I can't change things
in life, and give me the serenity to understand that,
(21:00):
accept the thing, you know, and go through the prayer.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
And I would read it and say.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
My own head over and over and over again and
try and understand the meaning of the prayer and dissect
what the meaning of the prayer means for me.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
And I say it every day still.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
But when I first got so old, I said it
all the time because that that helped me when I
had a moment of just like, you know, the the.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Efforts as I call it. I won't say it on
the podcast, but you know I would just I say.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
You can say the efforts on the picot.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It would it would bring me right back to where
I need today. Yeah, and I still say today. I mean,
you know, it's I still say today.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Mm hmmmm hmm. It applies to everything. And I mean
even like you know, I'm really into helping people develop skills.
So these mantras and these prayers are a huge part
of that. And so like, God, grant me the serenity
to know the things I cannot change when you're in
the midst of a struggle, like just asking yourself, is
(21:58):
this something I can change? And if it's not right,
the acceptance that this is not something I can change.
The wisdom like getting to the wisdom is asking yourself,
is this something I can change? Or is something I
will accept and find a gift and opportunity in it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
No, it's amazing and I think that you know that.
And then talking to people, it's funny you mentioned about
the tools of the trade, and I learned early on
about sugar. If you're an alcoholic and you're struggling with alcohol.
So I was working with, not working with at a
colleague of mine who was on a conference for work,
(22:38):
and she was newly sober and she wanted to drink
so bad. She called me out. Thank god, she called
me and she said, I really want to drink tonight.
I said, I knew who she was. I said, is
there an ice cream shop near where you are?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Go have a frap, I said, And after you have
a frap, call me up if you still want to drink.
So she went out and got a frap and she
called me out and she goes, how'd you know that?
I said, no, what she was. I don't have a
desire to drink anymore. It's it's the craving of the sugar,
but it's also your brain telling you to drink. So again,
it's little tricks of that I learned, But you don't
(23:13):
learn them if you're not out of a program. Yeah,
and you don't learn if if you're not talking support person.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
If you're not talking to somebody who knows the tricks.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
So I think of it the same way like we
don't add ask a race car driver to drive a
race car without having a coach. We don't ask a
hockey player to play professional hockey without having a coach
to share these tips and tricks, and so addiction and
the stigma that we've wrapped around addiction tricks people into
(23:43):
thinking you have to be silent and do it all
by yourself, and that actually can't yeah, and it's it's human.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
No, you can't do it by yourself and you can't.
But we can't do anything by ourself, Like there's nothing
we can do about currently. There's nothing in life that
you think about. What you do in life, whatever it
is you do, you need somebody with you to do
it at some point, like it doesn't matter anything, you know,
And it's kind of like this, why would it be
different trying to get into recovery.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
It gets sober by not having support around you.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, totally, but we try to make it like it's different,
like the shoulds right because it's addiction. You should and
it's like, no, get it out of your head, like
we're pack animals. We need each other in all things
this included.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
No, that's true.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And the stigma, the sigma piece of a lot of
it today too, is is that you have people have
in people listening today that are struggling right now. Your
stigma is because you've made so many mistakes in your
life and so many so many oh my gods and
oops and I didn't mean it in your life and
you've apologized a million times, and when you get into recovery,
(24:55):
those apologies eventually down the road are different, and it's
it's it's since. I mean, I remember when I talked
about praying when I went to detox. I used to
pray when I was in the detox. I prayed to
hit keynotes, I could keep drinking. I prayed, get me
out of a gym. I prayed that I wouldn't get
in trouble. I'd pray this, I pray. I'd be praying,
but I prayed for all the wrong reasons, and I
(25:16):
wasn't praying the real you know, it wasn't like asking God,
my case, God to help me, help me understand what
I'm doing wrong.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And you know it really is.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
You know, the stigma of it is is a lot
of some today, I think today a little more than
in the past. It's self impost stigma. I think there
were a lot of families in the United States, in
the world, most families in the world, not all. Most
families in the world have somebody in their family that
is dealing that is dealing with something, whether it's mental
(25:47):
health or substance hues or whatever it might be. So
it's not like, and more people are talking about it
today than even when I first got into the program Alcoochem,
when I first got sober in ninety seven, ninety five,
I should say, and then in ninety seven I gotta
lect it, more people are talking about say. So that
stigma is again that it goes along with the feeling
(26:08):
inside that the you know that you're not worth it,
and anyone, everyone who's struggling right now is worth it.
Everyone's worth it.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
It's just and I you know, when I get somebody,
when I try to talk to people, I just offer
them a hand and if they're ready for it, they'll
take it. And if they're not ready for it, you
just you wait for the call and hope.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That the call comes. And the sad pod is I've.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Known a lot of people that couldn't make the call
because their life ended before the call was made. Yeah,
and that's another thing that's really hard. And generally when
I see that, when you see some of you guys
in active addiction, you go to their wake and there's
thousands of people there, and they generally died alone, thinking
no one loves them, when in fact it is completely
(26:52):
the opposite. They might be angry at them at the moment,
but they do. They do understand if they give you
over time.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
M h.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I want to magnify what you said. Anybody who is
struggling today, you are worth it. And even though this
addiction has your brain tricked to make you think the
people around you don't care, they care so deeply. That's
why this disease is so hurtful. If they didn't care,
they wouldn't be hurt by it. They wouldn't be angry.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
That's true, and they're tired. Some family members are tied.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
We have an area in Boston called mass and Casts
and we have a lot of active addiction going on
down there. And you know, I often say like that,
and a lot of the people down on Massive Casts
are intermingle with the homeless people and people in the country.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
People in Boston they said, oh, they're all homeless. They're
really not homeless. They're out of their home.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
They're homeless because of their active, active using of drugs
and alcohol.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
And if they're able to get sober, there's a place
to go back to. But you know, you have to.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Build that trust up too, and that's why they don't
let don't let stigma and stubbornness and not understanding.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Keep you away from being read in your family. Take
that first.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Step, yep, yep. So I'm gonna give you a sneak
peek into the final question that I ask everybody, which
is And we're not gonna do it right now. We
have a few more minutes before we get to the final.
But if there's one thing that you want listeners to
walk away from hearing your journey and your story today,
one thing you want them to unlearn, or one stigma
(28:23):
you want them to undo, or one conversation you want
them to uncover, what would it be? But not no, no, no, no,
not right now? That's the fine art might all right,
So before we get to that question, another thing that
I think is hugely important as people ground their feet
and recovery, for what that means for them is the
(28:45):
sense of life, meaning and purpose. And I get the
sense from you, Marty that you have a really solid
perspective on what your purpose in life is and what
meaning and life means for you. Are you comfortable sharing
with our listeners one am, I am? I you know
(29:05):
receiving you? Is that accurate? And two? If so, what
that is and how you came to know what it is.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I've been very blessed in my life to have amazing opportunities,
serving sixteen years in the House Representatives, seven years is
mayor of the City of Boston, two years in a
presidential cabinet, and now.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
As the director of the Hockey Player Association.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And I often people often ask me about.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
What is it in politics? Do you want your legacy
to be?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Because everyone's focused on legacy, and I really am not
concerned about my legacy. What I want to do is
be able to help people get to wherever it is
they want to get to, whether it's help them get
a job in recovery, help them get sober, you know,
Like I think my purpose is to help people. And
then that's a broad range of whatever it might be,
(29:56):
depending on the circumstance. That's what I enjoy doing. That's
what I love doing in life. I don't need a
bridge named after me, I don't need a building named
after me. And that's you know, some people feel that
that's what they want in their life or building or
whatever it might be. I want to be able to
point back and say I helped I was there to
be able to help somebody when they made the phone
call when I ran from mayor in twenty thirteen. I
(30:19):
have a cell phone. I have a cell phone number,
and that number in twenty thirteen was probably ten years old,
and I got a lot of calls in that phone.
And I remember being at a meeting in my campaign
office with the leadership of the campaign saying you need
to change your number, you get too many calls. I said,
I can't change the number because I don't want to
miss the call. And ironically, a couple weeks later, whenever
(30:40):
it was later, I was in a finance meeting in
the campaign office at my phone rang and it was
it was a person in active active alcoholism, and I said,
I got to take this call, and I jump I
jumped off out of the campaign meeting. It was a
finance meeting from mayor of Boston, and I got the
phone call, and I took a call and whatever, you
had the phone conversation with the person other than the phone,
(31:02):
and I went back to the meeting and the next
day one of the people at worked for me said
to me, can we talk about yesterday? I said yeah,
and she said that was pretty incredible what you did,
So what are you talking about you is you get
a phone call somebody looking for help to get into treatment,
and you stopped the finance meeting for your campaign. And
I said, that's what life's all about. And I never
(31:23):
you know, I have my number. I don't change my number.
I don't want to miss that call.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
I did miss a call once. Family call me trying
to get their son into DETOKS. I was at a
state rep at the time. I didn't never a cell phone,
I don't believe, and they called the office. And when
I got in the office Monday, I got in the
call from my mother who was trying to get her
son into DTOKS and he had overdosed that weekend.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
So you know, I don't plan. I'm not. I'm not,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I don't blame myself for that, but you want to
be able to be there as much as possible. So
I think that the way I want, the way I
live my life is trying to help people every day,
one day at a time, and do you know, do
as much as I can.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, that was so powerful and I love like you said,
it's a big umbrella and it gets manifest in many ways,
but it always comes back to that central core and
meaning for you, which is helping other people. Yeah, did
you ever did you ever not know that that was
your life meaning? Like, was there a process or your purpose?
(32:17):
Was there a process of finding that or uncovering it
for yourself? Because I think a lot of people don't
know what purpose I mean.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think I think you know, I grew up in
Boston Dorchester. I wanted to be in politics. I was
active in the neighborhood, and you know, I wanted to
get elected.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I got elected.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I served sixteen years and the House Representatives. And I
think over time it defined, you know, whatever you do
with life defines who you are and defines what your
real calling is. And I don't know if my calling
is politics. I don't know if I clearly I have
been in it for a long time. I'm not sure
what my calling is. But but you know, over time,
you know, in recovery, understanding the program, the program about
(32:57):
austrononomous and about giving it away and sharing, sobriety and
understanding you're following the people that came before you, and
you're learning and you had to give away to the
people that come after you, and understanding that it's a
day at a time so all of that stuff I
learned over time. So I, you know, I think my
calling is a kid. I wanted to be in politics.
I wanted to be elected.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I just want to be elective, that's you know, I
didn't have this idea concept of what that meant. I
just want to be put my name on a ballot,
get my name on a bump a stick or on
a sign to get elected. And then all the time done, yeah, done,
And you get that, you realize like what really is?
You know, you find out who you really are and
what you're really about, and that's you know, you try
(33:37):
not to lose sight of that, and try not to
lose sight of So anyone listening today, Like the one
thing I want to say to people listening, like, I
don't care what situation you're in your life. I don't
care how low you are, I don't care what you've done.
I don't care how much boos you drink, how much
drugs you've taken, all of that, if you give yourself
(33:57):
a chance, all of that is still part of your
life's journey, but it will make you stronger as a
human being if you deal with that moving forward. So
so you know, all of that is so important for
people to realize that if you take that first step,
and you might not want to take that first step,
but you're tired, you're ready for it.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Just give yourself a chance. All that stuff can be
dealt with. You deal with the record they call it
records or your past. You deal with the records. I've
dealt with it, and I still have records in my past.
I have to deal with that I haven't dealt with.
But you deal with that, and and you know your
life is worth it.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Mm hmmm hmm. Give yourself a chance. All right, Well,
this time always flies faster then I want it to.
But I think we can roll into our last question,
which is some people say one, undo, unlearn, uncover, some
(34:55):
people give one and eat whatever is on your heart
and soul. This this afternoon, Marty Walls. One thing you
want people to unlearn, undo or a conversation to uncover
that you think would really get us on the path
to stemming this addiction crisis.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Undo, unlearn, uncover. I think it's what I said earlier.
Because you've lived your life a certain way, and you've
struggled for so long with drugs and alcohol, you can
undo the damage that you cost by taking the first step.
(35:39):
You might not see it today, but if you get
into recovery, you will see it. I am extremely grateful.
I often say this to people if if I said
this a bunch of time, If I get hit by
a bus tonight after this podcast and my life is
over for whatever reason, sickness, whatever it might be, I
(36:02):
tell people, don't feel bad for me, because I've lived
a full life, because I've gotten into recovery and I've
been able to do that. So you know, you can undo,
unlearn a lot of things in life by taking care
of yourself. And I want people to know that you're
not alone in this journey. There are millions and millions
of people in recovery, but there are millions and millions
(36:25):
and millions of friends and supporters of all of us
out there that that are doing podcasts and writing books
and talking to us and fighting in state houses around
the country and legislatures and down in Congress, and you know,
you know, as high as the President's office. I mean,
you have so many people that that that that that
are that are in this space with us that it's
(36:46):
very different than the people that came before us that
didn't have the support networks that.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Are out there today. I don't know. I don't know
if that answers the question, oh.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
That was there are no wrong answers. That was absolutely beautiful,
by the way, because I think so how much of
what is deadly about this epidemic you said it before,
one the idea that you're in it by yourself, to
the idea that there's nobody fighting for you, and so
(37:14):
like you have insider knowledge about the people who are
fighting for a chance for people with addiction to experience
recovery all the way up to the President's office. I mean,
I think it's just really powerful. Yeah, yeah, really powerful.
So thank you, thank you so much Marty Wallace for
(37:34):
coming on the Addiction what is it called? Un Addiction Podcast?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I love thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
This has been awesome. I really appreciate it, all right.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Thank you very much having me.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Thank you so much for tuning in. And if you
liked this episode, please check out my book on Addiction,
Six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available
at Barnes and Noble, Shop dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,
and wherever books are sold. If you like to this episode,
please share it with someone you think may need to
(38:10):
hear it. Also, please subscribe to this podcast and leave
a five star review that helps us reach any and
everyone who may be looking for support in the face
of addiction.
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