June 4, 2024 • 44 mins
This episode is dedicated to our younger listeners looking to be reflected in the recovery community.
Not everyone who finds recovery lost a career, house, or family. Lauren McQuistin (@brutalrecovery) is a former opera singer who now writes about the messy, awkward, and unsettling parts of recovery. Attempting sobriety for the first time at the age of 19, Lauren shares about self-loathing, feeling of insignificance, and lack of belonging that accompanied the trauma she experienced at the hands of someone who was supposed to support her. Lauren and Nzinga talk about the small seeds planted along Lauren's path to recovery that eventually blossomed, and how compassion saved Lauren's life.
If you feel like your life doesn't matter, like your achievements will never amount to anything, or like your path doesn't align with society's ideal of success, this episode is for you.
Sign up for Lauren's Substack, No Lost Causes Club: https://nolostcausesclub.substack.com/
Lauren creates content "too edgy" for social media on her Patreon. If you'd like to follow along on "a day in the life of a woman who almost died more times than she can remember," go here: https://www.patreon.com/brutalrecovery/about
Follow her on IG: @brutalrecovery
___
Dr. Nzinga Harrison's book, "Un-Addiction: Six Mind-Changing Conversations That Could Save a Life" is out now! Order here: https://www.nzingaharrisonmd.com/
Find Nzinga on Threads and X (Twitter): @nzingamd / LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nzingaharrisonmd/
Follow us on IG @unaddictionpod. If you'd like to watch our interviews, you can catch us on YouTube @unaddictionpod. Questions, suggestions, and anything else? Email us at: unnaddictionpod@gmail.com.
If you or a loved one are experiencing addiction, have questions about recovery, or need treatment tailored to you, visit eleanorhealth.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.
I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time. Okay,
So I know I always say like I love this
episode so much, and it's always true, but I loved
this episode so much. This we are dedicating to our
(00:46):
young people who may still be struggling or who may
be early on your path to recovery. I'm Lauren got
sober at twenty five. She describes herself as a stay
at home drinker with addiction as early as nineteen and
just celebrated her six year sober birthday. Her Instagram handle
(01:07):
is at Brutal Recovery And don't be scared off because
Lauren was anything but brutal. I'm talking about just a warm,
healing conversation full of joy and laughter.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Lauren is from.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Scotland, where she was born and raised. She was an
opera singer. She has like three degrees. Now she's a
content writer and she based her content on the messy,
awkward and unsettling parts of recovery and of being a
human in the world. I think you were going to
love this episode. I am thrilled to have you here.
(01:43):
So I keep meeting so many cool, like interesting, amazing
people through this podcast and I'm like, okay, opera singer,
recovery real blazer, like okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm a super stoked. So I'll do a quick introduction.
Nice to meet you. I'm doctor and Zinga Harrison.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Please we're like old friends now, so in Zinga go
by and follow you on Instagram and with seriously super
stoked when Jada said you would come on.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So my book just.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Came out in January, Thank you very much. It's called
an Addictioned Six Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a
Life and it's a you know, storytelling, educational book. I say,
I'm a doctor, but it's not a textbook. And really
what I'm hoping to do is just like get people
to think about addiction differently, which then I hope will
(02:41):
help us think about people who experience addiction differently. And
I think comes with that is thinking about recovery differently.
And there's this concept that's the magic formula, and it's
like it's yours.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Right, Like your formula is your formula.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And so the purpose of the podcast is like people
that have their own recovery journey just sharing their formula
and then maybe somebody interesting is like, oh, maybe that's
part of my formula. I'll try it.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yes, Oh I love that. Yeah, Like I'm I am
one hundred percent like a believer in like the only
the only like right way to get sober is the
way that like actually works for you. And I don't
know why that's so controversial, but like is.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That the easiest concept ever?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Like the right way is the one that works and
also that changes over time.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right, That's definitely been my theories. Yeah, like my different
ages and stages of my recovery, I've needed like different things. Yeah,
Like so I heard someone describe it. It's like, you know,
it's like any relationship, like when you're three years in,
like how you spend your time is different when you've
like just got together like when you have kids, Like
it's different than like when you were like just you know,
so it's like you've all rising it by your recovery flowers.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, oh I love this metaphor.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Okay, so Lauren tell the listeners who is Lauren?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Oh okay, So someone on a podcast recently said to me,
you laugh more than anyone I've ever interviewed. So I'm
just plugging that, like right away, Like I'm I just
get so giddy when I like against these conversations because
it's not kind of blows my mind. But yes, so
I'm Lauren.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
That's a huge compliment. Laughter is the medicine for the soul.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I really believe that. And as someone who was like,
you know, a stay at home, miserable drinker and drunk
news like, the fact that I even laugh now is
like that's a marker of recovery. Anyway. So my name
is Lauren. I'm from Scotland. That's why I sound like this.
I live in London. I am originally from I'm from
a sheep farm and then I went really rogue and
(04:53):
became an opera singer and lived in the USA, and
whilst being full time, fulled, I'm stay at home alcoholic.
I've been sober for six years. I turned six in March,
Happy birthday, Thank you. Yes, it's still kind of bananas
(05:14):
to me. Yeah, And I spend I spend my days.
People who was asking me, like, what is actually your job,
Like you just seem to be like vibing online And
my job is my job is barbing gone there. But
my I work as a writer. I write about recovery
and I also am I you know, creativity is a
(05:35):
really big part of my recovery as you know, a
musician by trade, So I engage with using music as
a tool to self experience and self sooth and self
express at the same time with the voy does and
I love it. Yeah. So that's that's that's a little
slice of me. I love whales, I love anime, I love.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know, just.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Reading and I yeah, that's that's your little whistle stop
tour of everything that makes me feel.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Alive, incredible. So three things I'm gonna connect with you.
One one, My younger son is seventeen, so he's just
about to graduate high school and he is going to
Savannah College of Art and Design here and in Georgia
to major in creative writing. So like now, yeah, totally.
(06:31):
So now like every time I meet writers, I'm like,
I may or may not ask my son to call
you someday.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Please, Oh my god. Yeah, Like my kind of journey's
being a writer is such a strange side story journey,
like because obviously like a major to music, I want
three degrees in music and then discovered in lockdown, like,
oh shit, I don't want to do that anymore. It's
like it's kind of like that's, you know, being a
performers when it's raced for me, like what do I do?
(07:00):
My original ambition was always to be a writer, a readers. Yeah,
by god. I wrote my first book in air quotes
when I was like ten and it was in and
it was about a mermaid. There was clip on it
like it and I was like, so I was like,
wet book. And then around you know that's not what
a book is. But and then you know, obviously I
(07:22):
have the meme account brutal recovery. So I realized that
like I had kind of and I've been doing that
for about five years now, so I was kind of
like writing all along. So I feel like that was
like my neglected ambition kind of just like you know,
simmering away always and then I've got my own book
is actually coming out next year based on you know
I talk about on the page. So yeah, I support
(07:45):
you know, writers who like feel that like Arcane urged
to write like that's just absolutely it. So congratulations to
your side my way anytime, if it wants to talk about.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I love that, and I would say I'm being uh.
I was about to say preposterous, but that was not
the word I was looking for. I was looking for presumptuous,
which maybe shairs you know, maybe share some things to
say that maybe even part of your magic formula is
getting back to your original ambition.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But first, okay, my second my first son, that's my
that's my second son.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
My first son is finishing up his freshman year of college,
and I'm a psychiatrist. So he's majoring in psychology, which
I love, and but he's minoring in music because like
you just said, he and I learned this as I
was like reading his college essays. Really found his sense
(08:46):
of identity and self and belonging when he started playing music,
and music has become one of his you know, main
coping and resilient strategies and so he's putting music and
psychology together so that he again help people learn to
heal through music.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
That is absolutely astonishing. I love that because you know,
music can access to herself, other people, and something greater
than ourselves, like that is it's just it's magic. And
you know, I I really relate to you know what
you said that like when you know it's so so
opera was my craft and people say like what was
(09:28):
you know, a girl from like the west coast of Scotland,
from a sheep farm, what was she doing sing an opera?
And you know, they for me so like it was
a road show came to my came to my town,
like they did like outreach stuff out into the countryside,
and this road show came and they were like, hi, guys,
like this is opera and I was like, oh my god,
(09:49):
like these people are screaming like I was. I wanted
to scream, I said, I was screaming on the inside.
So I was like, wait, if you're an opera singer,
you can screaming sign me like yeah, so yeah. And
then for a while, like you know, you know, being
(10:10):
in the class commusic scene, like there is a huge
amount of the discipline and it gives you a huge
amount of self esteem. And where I kind of lost
my way with that career is I kind of replaced
the praise of being a class commusician for love. So
I thought that if I was perfect, i'd beloved right. Yeah,
And there in life's the problem. So the fact that
(10:32):
he's doing a psychology degree alongside it his self for success,
that is perfect.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Thank you, thank you, Okay. And then here's the part
I loved. I said, tell the listeners who is Lauren?
And one of the many things you said was and
I was a stay at home you know, lonely.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I think you said alcoholic. That was only one.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That was only one of the things that you use
to tell people about yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It was grew up in Scotland. It was opera.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It was wrote a book about a mermaid when I
was ten. It was came back to writing. It was
like writing for a living. It was all so much more.
And I think that is one of the most important
messages that I want people to know about people who
have experienced addiction, people who are still experiencing it, people
(11:27):
who are in recovery, is that it is but one
piece of the puzzle that is that person.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh my god, what beautiful observation. Like I'm really happy
that that came quite organically, because that's you know, that's
why I want to convince people of like with the
writing that I do, like you know that that's not
you know, my my story is like you knows, as
I said, I was a state at home drinker, but
you know, I had and you'd think that being a
state home drinker, you would take yourself out of harm's way,
(11:57):
but like you know, a lot of chit went down,
a lot of you know, another one of my things
that I consider myself in recovery from is you know,
I have a lot of behaviors around sex and love
that have caused me tremendous issues all the way into sobriety.
You know, I'm in recovery from eating disorders and you know,
(12:19):
self injury was a huge part of my story as well.
And you know what for me, recovery has granted me.
Like I thought that the rest of my life was
just going to be weighing up and battling those things.
And I will be honest, like the first maybe two
years of my recovery, it was like I had a
very slow two years of just working out yeah, how
(12:43):
my brain worked, and I didn't know how to do anything.
Like I got sober when I was twenty five. Started
drinking when I was thirteen, so I missed out my
developmental years. So like I was a twenty five year old,
like learning how to make a cup of coffee, yeah,
because I've never made result a cup of coffee. But
what I found, like you know, with having a bit
(13:03):
of time, like six years, it's it's it's a chunk
of time. So you know, eventually you started to have
problems in the places where you didn't have places before,
and then you work out how to deal with those
problems in the places where you didn't have places before,
and then you get a life. And it's like and
for for me because like I had a really quick
(13:24):
progression and because I got sober young, I didn't really
have anything to lose, Like I didn't lose a marriage
because I'd never been married. I didn't lose the house.
I never bought a house like I was at the
start of my career, so I never got like, well
I had been fired, make no mistake, but like I
never had like that professional fall from grace Yeah, So
my recovery journey has simply been the process of like
(13:46):
building myself and finding like, you know, what I actually
am and having the unique opportunity to like build from that.
Like it's it's been, and that's I want to be
an advocate for getting sober young because a lot of
the time I was like, well, what's the point of
me getting sober? Like I'm a pointless, useless human being
that couldn't even like do anything right. I'm twenty I'm
(14:08):
twenty five, and I spend my days drinking vodka by
myself trying not to cut myself, Like what pointless existence?
And then six years later, I'm just like as the
other podcast dave been a dupy podcast. He was like,
you love more than anyone I've ever met, you know,
so like that's recovery.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Recovery, that's recovery. Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I love this so much so dedicating this episode of
Unaddictioned podcast to our young people. Yeah, yeah, out shout
out to my young people, because you're like, kind of
what I heard you saying, is this other idea that
I want people to let go of, that like there
(14:45):
has to be a rock bottom and you have a
new experienced bottom. You're like I am twenty five years
old at home struggling through this vaka bottle, trying not
to cut myself every day, right, Like that is emotional
pain and struggle, but it does tend to be described
in those quote older people ways lost the marriage, lost
(15:06):
a job, kids, you, et cetera. And so can you
talk to us Lauren at twenty five? How did you
even become aware of the concept that, like there could
be recovery, something could be different. How did you take
your first steps on the journey? How did you know
what first steps you wanted to take, like share share
(15:28):
that part of the experience with us? Oh are you
people specifically?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yes, for the young people, like this is my you know,
I think that in writing, right, we talked about how
like a usp like unique selling point, like you've got
to make your book like you know what unique, And
I kind of see that like on the personal levels
purpose like what has been what has happened to me?
Or what have I got that, like it is unique
to me that I can use to like help people,
(15:56):
and that for me is like the fact that I
got sober young. There's a ton in early stuff on
my story. So yes, this is for the young people.
So I actually tried to get sober for the first
time when I was nineteen. I had a really, really,
really big consequence. When I was nineteen, I was on
a tour of Italy, was an opera company, and I
(16:19):
had been you know, it was very clear that I
did not drink like other people from a very young age,
like you know, the first time I drank, I black.
I started drinking around the time that I was trigger
warning I was being sexually abused by a teacher, and
I realized that when I drank, I didn't have to
(16:41):
remember that. So I was already like you know, drinking
was my only friend. It was my protector. It was
the thing that was going to make me okay. And
because I didn't deal with that trauba until I got sober,
I am. Yeah. I just my drinking was it was
ballistic like it was. It was feral, you know, God
bless that girl, like she was just doing what she
(17:03):
needed to get by.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, it's bad to.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Survive exactly, like it was pure survival. Also, I was
in Italy and I ran off with this group of
Italian men and I don't know what I took. I
just know that I took something and blocked out and
my friends found me. I don't remember the night, but
I remember waking up in like bed and that my
(17:28):
best friend was crying and she looks at me and
shows like I cannot even stand the sight of you
right now, and I was like, oh, I have messed up.
So that scared me sober for a while, but I
did not seek any help because I did not think
that I needed help, because I was like, I'm nineteen
years old. I am not doing anything that any nineteen
year old hasn't done. And because I didn't seek the help,
(17:52):
I turned back to drinking. I turned back to drinking
in a way that was so intense that I made
an attempts on my life and ended up on the sideboard.
And they said, you need to get sober or you
will not make the age of twenty five. But because
I didn't want to make the age of twenty five,
I was like, okay, don't time me with a good
time fantastic. So I got myself into another corner. This
(18:19):
was another corner to do with men, and I was
kind of trapped between two men and I thought, this
is absolutely unbearable. I'm at the Mercy of bad Men.
I'm going to move to America. So I'd always had
the idea to move to America because there was lots
of opera opportunities over there. I got I managed to
apply to school, I got a scholarship. I was like fantastic,
(18:42):
Like here we go. And then I met all of
these new people that didn't know that I was like,
you know, Lauren, the feral drinker that you didn't want
to go out with because she, you know, ended up
in the Psychechord. Like they thought I was fun and
I was foreign and I was Scottish and this is
what Scottish people are like. And I was like, yes,
this is what Scottish people are like. It's not what
Scottis people are like. But you know, when you're an alcoholic,
(19:04):
like you know, like I was like, I've fed into
that stereotype. But then even they were like, we've got
rehearsal tomorrow. And then it got to the point that
like I was drinking before shows, and then it got
to the point that I was, you know, blackout four shows,
like these were three hour operas and I was blackout.
And there was this one singer who was sober and
(19:28):
he said to me, he was like, hey, buddy, you
know are you Are you okay? And I kind of like,
you know, and then I had that first moment of
break down like I'm not okay, Like everything is terrible,
like I'm so scared, but I can't let anyone know,
like drinking is killing me, but it's also the only
(19:48):
thing that's keeping me together. And then he you know,
pointed me in the direction of resources. He told me
his story and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get sober.
And I think this, like this is the part of
the story that I always hesitate to tell, but like
I start drinking again after that. I do think it's
important to recognize that, like that story wasn't for nothing
because that planted a seed I could not forget.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
They need you.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes, So yeah, that wasn't the moment that I got sober,
but it was a moment that I couldn't forget.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And you know, and even do not ever hesitate to
tell this part of the story ever again, Like what
did the young folks say, like say it with your
chest like this, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Like this is.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So important because it is dangerous the idea that if
you try and then you drink again. There's no reason
to try, because there's something about you that is dangerous.
Like let's plant every single seed. Let's water every single seed,
and one seed will bloom one day. We just keep gardening,
(20:55):
We just keep gardening.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Oh my god, my heart just all opened at that.
That was stunning. Okay, yeah, and he he was you know,
he was my first gardener, like he really and we
still talk, like, you know, we met each other years later,
and you know, after that moment, and I did get
a little bit of sober time after that. I did
it by myself because I wasn't in a position to
(21:18):
ask for help. But I remember, like a couple of
weeks later, like I was in a practice room and
I was dronk and he came in and he was like, hey,
how are you doing? And I was so full of
shamed because I was drunk. And this was the guy
that like taught me that, you know, you could be
sober and happy. But as I said, like, and how
am I to say that in that short period that
I had sober, like that wasn't a life saving period
of time, like any period of time that I spent sober,
(21:41):
even if it didn't stick like that was useful time.
So yeah, I then moved to a different college town
because I graduated from that degree. I did it. I
wasn't ready to have a professional career because I was
a drunk basically, and I didn't want to go home
because there was nothing there for me. I didn't have
(22:02):
any friends, I didn't like my I have a very
loving family relationship, but like I didn't want to show
my family like that I was a failure, if you
know what I mean. Like I was like, I can't
go home and tell them that, like I've squandered this
huge chance. So I got and I said another master's degree.
Something I was looking out for me because I go
a scholarship to this master's degree. And I moved there.
(22:23):
And I remember moving there and I was thinking, like, Lawren,
please stay sober, like nice, And what did I do?
I got, I touched down and got drunk, and I
was like, you are so useless, Like I hate you
so much. You can't even promise that you've made to yourself,
you know, just all of that self clothing. And then
my what really really really brought me to my knees
(22:44):
was a physical withdrawal that required hospitalization. And at that point,
you know, I'd been there before. It was not my
first time that was hospitalized. But something was different. And
this is kind of like an inexplicable moment in my
recovery story that you know, even the loads of people
had tried to get me help and I'd literally just
(23:04):
like left the country or moved state. One final person
said to me, you know, I thought she was going
to say your visa has been revoked. You got to
move home. And I remember thinking, you know, I felt relief.
I was twenty five, so I was like, Okay, well
this is the moment I killed myself, Like this is
the moment that it's all over. And she said to me,
(23:24):
we're going to get you help, and something inside me
just said take that help. Was it was a call
from inside the house and it just said you are done.
And I don't know what it was. You know, I
am a twelve stepper, so like I do consider that
to be like paragrater than myself, because it didn't come,
(23:47):
you know, from anywhere I could explain or understand. But
that was the moment that I said, yes, please help me.
Like I don't know what I expected on the other side,
I was terrified, but I just, yeah, there was just
something inside. Maybe it's a soul, maybe it's my rebellious nature,
maybe it's just it was that last kernel of like
(24:09):
hoop inside me. That Yeah, it just says like you're done,
Like this, this is done. And that's not to say
the next I was so easier, but like that was
then and as of my current you know spriy today,
that that was my that was my last drink and
god willing will be my last drink.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, such an emotional story starting all the way back
trigger warning, like you said, from the teacher that violated you,
and so many young people having those experiences and not
being able to get help for any number of very
(24:46):
complex reasons. Even how that probably carries forward to the
self loathing you had, the self harm, the drinking, just
to survive.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
The love and men.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
You've yeah that you've that you've managed.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think going forward kind of with this gardening theme,
like that was beautiful. First of all, you said he
was my first gardener. That like made me a little teary.
That was so beautiful. And then this visa lady right,
like visa lady, this is my whole thing is that
each and every one of us, we don't have to
(25:24):
know anything but just compassion.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Like probably.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I didn't know anything, like she wasn't an addiction expert, right.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Right exactly, that's it. Yes, Oh my god, then you've
you've hit the nail on the head actually, and you know,
I really too. Yeah, sorry, like that that just really
struck me, like there are so many people. For for
a very long time, the only people that I knew
in my life were so wear alcoholics and people in recovery,
(26:00):
largely because I was terrified of everyone else on planet
Earth and I only wanted to speak to people in recovery.
But my life is is very large now, like and
I've got lots of you know, friends and a freelancer,
I wrote lots of different clients, and you know, so
I'd say that balance is now like fifty to fifty, like,
you know, people in recovery and the people who've never
experienced addiction. And something that really touched me when I
(26:25):
when Matthew Perry died. That was a really unsettling moment
for a lot of people in recovery, and as obviously
is when anyone like like I've lost lots of people
in my recovery journey to addiction, and you know, when
someone who is high profile I passes the way, like,
it just kicks up all of that. And it was
(26:48):
someone in my life who has never experienced addiction that
touched that reached out to me. My sister as well,
who's you know, obviously got the experience of addiction of
being a sister of an adult. But yeah, and it's
this this friend never experienced addiction and didn't really know
much about my story, so that wasn't like the main
feature of our friendship was like, hey, like, I'm just
(27:08):
just to let you know, like I'm thinking of you today,
like it's much and how difficult this is and wow,
like and she was just coming as if Pasha shouldn't
get to be an expert. She didn't need to like,
you know, quote things at me. It was just that
little heartfelt moment of like, hey, how bet you're hurting
right now, and if you want to talk about it,
I'm here. Oh my god. Like just the small but
(27:31):
significant moments that are really big. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I love it a lot of times.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
The book is called six mind Changing Conversations that could
save a life is the what do I call this subtitle?
And it's really we have been so afraid to talk
about addiction because it's scary. It's ravishing the people we love,
it's stealing them from us, you know, causing us a
lot of loss. But what you just said is literally
(27:56):
the script for every single conversation, which is just I
think I see you hurting right now, just want you
to know I'm here. It is that is the beginning
of every single conversation. And your first gardener, that's how
he came to you planet the seed saved your life.
That the's a lady saved your life, your sister right here,
(28:20):
like it maybe was not at a point where your
literal life had to be saved, but like put another
little seed in your in your spirit, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, totally. I think like underneath or I'll speak for myself,
like underneath my addiction and underneath my alcoholism is a
fundamental fear that no one cares about me, like nobody
loves me. Like someone said to me once that like
drinking is a longing for love. Like and you know,
there's a song by Frightened Rabbit called Wish I Wish
(28:53):
it was sober and like there's a line and that's
like a blush of love. It hits me without warning.
That's how he describes strings King. Yeah, and that's how
drinking was for me. That was like the blush of
love that I could not receive from any other way.
And yes, so like those little the signals you know,
when we're in a place to receive them, that like,
(29:15):
oh I matter, like I'm matter these people and even
though I'm this like Haywire alcoholic, like and sometimes with
my friends aren't in recovery, I'm kind of other of
myself because I'm like, oh, I'm like the high maintenance,
recovering weirdo like you know, which is not true. That's
the percent I have. Just like yeah, like those reiterations
(29:36):
like of you, you matter, and it was you know,
I'm I am very lucky and I will I will,
I will always acknowledge this that like I'm a you know,
I'm an articulate educated like white women, so that you know,
I get a lot of I kind of get a
you know, I'm an acceptable alcoholic, shall we say, Like
people are comfortable hearing my story because I can put
(29:57):
it into good words and I can say like who
got these the And one of my charges, I suppose,
is like I really really want it to be that
we extend that level of compassion to every single person,
and that you know, whether their job of choice is
ivy use, IVY drug use or workaholism or alcoholism, you
(30:18):
know it. You know, it's all. It's an exercise and compassion.
And sorry, I'm so I'm in so many tangents, but
I'm just so fired up by this conversation about compassion
because like it's it's so portent.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, it's so potent. It's so potent. And there's something
about you matter that is actually I know what it is.
I was gonna say, an innate biological need. It like
literally is based in dope. It is the adopted for
just a minute, it is like an innate need for survival.
(30:52):
And then there's also something particularly particularly potent about you
matter so much to me that I am making this
effort for you, right for you. Yeah, okay, time is flying,
Holy schmoles lace. So I want to get into your
(31:13):
magic formula. So I heard you say twelve stepper. I
heard you say my usp My unique selling problem for
a human is like purpose. I hear your passion around
young people. So can you just share maybe what your
magic formula is today and how it has changed.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh that's such a good question. Okay, So yes, I
am a told stepper. I'm a member of various twelve
step fellowships. It's not for everybody, it's certainly for me,
and I think that the reason that that works for
me is the idea of being part of something and I,
(32:01):
you know, and I think that that means for belonging
as someone who is chronically overed and has a head
that tells me like you don't belong everyone's looking at you,
You're weird. To be in that space was not always
comfortable at first, but it kind of resocialized me first
to be like, okay, like this is how you have
a conversation, this is how you make up a coffee.
(32:23):
And the reason why I still do that and why
that's you know, part of my magic formula today is
because I want to be a helper. Like I spent
my whole life being like, why is not what helping me? Yeah?
And I spent a lot of my life feeling you know,
like when you've I've been abused something you'll always hear
(32:45):
is you know, if you tell someone bad, things will happen.
And that was like the first space where I told
someone something honestly and good things happened, and I learned
the purpose of honesty and coming back to myself. So
you know that's.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Because you said it.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Twelve step is not for everyone, and I'm here to
tell you nothing is for everyone. Something is for everyone,
And I want to put the emphasis on what you said,
which is the twelfth step fellowship, the sense of belonging.
It didn't always feel comfortable, so I always tell people like,
(33:29):
just try everything and then if it's not for you, great,
we're gonna try something else. But what you just said
just now, especially as a survivor of childhood abuse, that
was the first time I told somebody something quote bad
and something good happened. That is extremely healing, supremely healing. Okay, sorry,
(33:53):
go ahead, jumping in your magic.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, well you just perfectly summer so sucimply exactly like
what I meant. And I love that because I'm very
long form.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
You know, long form competition our podcast.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
So so yeah, in I So, I was in therapy
for my first year and a half of recovery. I
was doing like a talk therapy and kind of just
to get the words for what my uh my brain
was and like what you know, the voice experiences in
a way that was very very honest with a professional
(34:37):
because I had experienced psychosis before, so we just needed
to like make make sure that, you know, I didn't
fall into any extreme mental health consequences. So that was
available to me, and I was very grateful for that.
And then in recent years, last year I did I
(34:57):
started trauma therapy, which was really good because I know
research trauma because my master's thesis was the impact of
trauma on the voice. So I had like a very
intellectual understanding of trauma. And then I realized, like, oh man,
like this I started this research for me. It was
always about me now emotional understanding exactly right. And I'm
(35:22):
very very glad that that came. That that came a
year ago, because any earlier I don't know if I
necessarily would have been in place to handle it. My
my third year of recovery was just the rockiest road
I've ever experienced. It was the you know, it was
a pandemic year. I had a break up, I had
an unemployment, I had a you know, in your homemost experience,
(35:42):
it was it was a lot. So if I was
going through that then I would have lost my hand died.
So and I suppose, like like I said earlier, like
my recovery journey has been quite long and slow so
far because I came in and I didn't know how
to do anything. I couldn't have a conversation. I was
so scared. I was very paranoid. I you know, just
(36:06):
really took it very gently in the first year, and
then the second year I got a little bit braver,
And where my recovery is at to day, it's like
taking what I've learned in through my various modalities, you know,
through the twelve step recovery scene, through more trauma informed stuff,
through talk therapy, and applying that like to making my
(36:30):
life biggers. So thank you know, there's a really great quote,
you know, pain is the touchstone of spiritual progress, and
that had absolutely been true for me. But where I'm
at today is like joy is also a touchstone of
my spiritual progress. So where I'm looking now is where
are they? You know, I feel strong enough to like
(36:51):
carry the vibration of joy, and I've got a lot
making up to do because I had a very sad
twenty five years, so make sure experience and joy in
my life. So that's kind of like the little thing
that you know, I've been focusing on and you know,
underpinning that with all of the principles of like honesty
(37:12):
and gratitude and service and love, and from those things
has come this joy and I've become you know, very
It's funny because like when I got sober, I wanted
to be like really serious and like a loose all
these things, and I've just become very enthusiastic and exuberant
and excitable. So yeah, and I think that's like, you know,
(37:33):
to kind of wrap up on my magic formula. Like
I didn't consider myself a worthy candidate for sobriety because
I thought that like my life was pointless. I was like,
I'm never going to make anything of my life and
me being alive is just inherently painful. But today it's
(37:57):
kind of like, you know, I need to keep building
this life that I don't want to run away from.
And that has happened, as I tho, very very very
slowly for me. But you know, if you want to,
you know, if taken yourself seriously and just make it,
you know, saying yourself like, your life is not a joke,
(38:17):
your life is not pointless, and then putting in this
teeny tiny actions day by day to amount to something
that like might not be magnificent, like I'm certainly not
rich and certainly not famous. I'm certainly not like you know,
I don't have a mortgage on, a husband and all
of that stuff, Like I've got boyfriend in a flat
that'll though. So it's you know, like just finding that
(38:41):
life you don't want to run away from with tiny, incremental,
small but significant efforts. You can't shortcut it. But like
along the way, somewhere the process became joyful, and I'm
very grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I love it. I love every single word of it.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
So honesty, gratitude, service, purpose, actually purpose.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I think maybe it came first.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Gratitude, fellowship, service, honesty.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Joy.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I love it so much. Okay, So in the last few.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Minutes of every episode, maybe I used to say like
half the time, and now I think maybe it's only
like a quarter of the time.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Do I remember to tell people upfront that I'm going
to ask this question? So did not tell you a front?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Now on the spot.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
This word n addiction for the book. We made it
up and the idea is unlearned what you think you
know about addictions, Undo stigma that's killing people. Uncover one
conversation that we need to be having. And so my
question for you and I would love it. I'm legit
serious pointing this episode at our young people who think
(39:56):
their life is useless. There's one thing you want them
to unmirn. One stigma you want us to undo that
we're pointing at these young people, one conversation you want
us to uncover, to have with these young people, what
would you leave us with? Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
God, I think by what immediately came to my mind there?
And I guess like if I'm imagining like my twenty
five year old self in front of me, and you know,
I had really marked I what I thought my you know,
what I thought would be a life worth living by
(40:40):
achievement and by success and by the path that you know,
generations before me had followed. And that wasn't necessarily a
viable path for me. And you know for young people today.
You know we've seen, you know, all these global financial
recessions we had. We're perpetually like over stimulated by more
(41:02):
information than a central nervous system can handle. What our parents,
God bless them, prepared us for, they couldn't have predicted.
So we're kind of you know, for instance, like the internet,
like that's the we were the person people teaching our
(41:23):
parents how to use the internet. Like, you know, we're
in this weird period of time where everything just feels
like it's getting worse. And I thought that I couldn't
get sober because I couldn't change anything, Like I thought
that it was just a pointless endeavor. And I suppose
what I want to say to twenty five year old
Lauren and all of the young people that like, your
(41:45):
existence in itself is vital, Like it's not just important.
It's vital to your communities, to your family, to your friends,
to your neighbors, to the people that you pass in
the street. You know you are and whether you believe
it or not, you are vital. There's something inside you
(42:11):
that like only you can give. So like if you
are a caring person, like care for someone, If you're
a friendly person, like be a friend. If you're a
funny person, like be funny, and like find through action,
like really feel that because It's one of those things
that you like, you don't believe it till you see it,
(42:32):
but other people see it before you do, and you
know it's yeah, Like the word vital just keeps coming
to my mind because I don't love the people in
my life because they're like important or famous or changing
the world. Like I love them for what they do
on the day to day, like for the small interactions
that we have, for you know, just everything that they are. Yeah,
(42:56):
So you know it's yeah, so yeah, it's so easy
to be hoped us and you know the world is
engineered for us to be hopefuls, so we keep buying
stuff and zoning out. So let's remember our inherent worth
and you know, let's do this together. Thanks. We really
need each.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Other, we really really do.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Oh man, I felt that, like all the way down
to my pinky toes, existence is vital.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Listen, I loved this conversation.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Oh my god, I wish were dead. How far hours.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
We can buil all of it? Man, Lauren, thank you
so so much, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Oh my god, thank you so much for having me.
This has been so much fun, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, come on, thank you so much for tuning in
and If you like this episode, please check out my
book on Addiction, Six mind changing Conversations that Could Save
a Life, available at Barnes Andnoble, Bookshop, dot org, Union
Squaring Company, Amazon, and wherever books are sold. If you
like to this episode, please share it with someone you
(44:11):
think may need to hear it. Also, please subscribe to
this podcast and leave a five star review that helps
us reach any and everyone who may be looking for
support in the face of addiction.
Welcome to Unaddictioned the podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.
I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction
medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.
On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead
to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.
(00:24):
Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that
have helped them along the way, and the formulas that
allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time. Okay,
So I know I always say like I love this
episode so much, and it's always true, but I loved
this episode so much. This we are dedicating to our
(00:46):
young people who may still be struggling or who may
be early on your path to recovery. I'm Lauren got
sober at twenty five. She describes herself as a stay
at home drinker with addiction as early as nineteen and
just celebrated her six year sober birthday. Her Instagram handle
(01:07):
is at Brutal Recovery And don't be scared off because
Lauren was anything but brutal. I'm talking about just a warm,
healing conversation full of joy and laughter.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Lauren is from.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Scotland, where she was born and raised. She was an
opera singer. She has like three degrees. Now she's a
content writer and she based her content on the messy,
awkward and unsettling parts of recovery and of being a
human in the world. I think you were going to
love this episode. I am thrilled to have you here.
(01:43):
So I keep meeting so many cool, like interesting, amazing
people through this podcast and I'm like, okay, opera singer,
recovery real blazer, like okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm a super stoked. So I'll do a quick introduction.
Nice to meet you. I'm doctor and Zinga Harrison.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Please we're like old friends now, so in Zinga go
by and follow you on Instagram and with seriously super
stoked when Jada said you would come on.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So my book just.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Came out in January, Thank you very much. It's called
an Addictioned Six Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a
Life and it's a you know, storytelling, educational book. I say,
I'm a doctor, but it's not a textbook. And really
what I'm hoping to do is just like get people
to think about addiction differently, which then I hope will
(02:41):
help us think about people who experience addiction differently. And
I think comes with that is thinking about recovery differently.
And there's this concept that's the magic formula, and it's
like it's yours.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Right, Like your formula is your formula.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And so the purpose of the podcast is like people
that have their own recovery journey just sharing their formula
and then maybe somebody interesting is like, oh, maybe that's
part of my formula. I'll try it.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yes, Oh I love that. Yeah, Like I'm I am
one hundred percent like a believer in like the only
the only like right way to get sober is the
way that like actually works for you. And I don't
know why that's so controversial, but like is.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
That the easiest concept ever?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Like the right way is the one that works and
also that changes over time.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Right, That's definitely been my theories. Yeah, like my different
ages and stages of my recovery, I've needed like different things. Yeah,
Like so I heard someone describe it. It's like, you know,
it's like any relationship, like when you're three years in,
like how you spend your time is different when you've
like just got together like when you have kids, Like
it's different than like when you were like just you know,
so it's like you've all rising it by your recovery flowers.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, oh I love this metaphor.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Okay, so Lauren tell the listeners who is Lauren?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Oh okay, So someone on a podcast recently said to me,
you laugh more than anyone I've ever interviewed. So I'm
just plugging that, like right away, Like I'm I just
get so giddy when I like against these conversations because
it's not kind of blows my mind. But yes, so
I'm Lauren.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
That's a huge compliment. Laughter is the medicine for the soul.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I really believe that. And as someone who was like,
you know, a stay at home, miserable drinker and drunk
news like, the fact that I even laugh now is
like that's a marker of recovery. Anyway. So my name
is Lauren. I'm from Scotland. That's why I sound like this.
I live in London. I am originally from I'm from
a sheep farm and then I went really rogue and
(04:53):
became an opera singer and lived in the USA, and
whilst being full time, fulled, I'm stay at home alcoholic.
I've been sober for six years. I turned six in March,
Happy birthday, Thank you. Yes, it's still kind of bananas
(05:14):
to me. Yeah, And I spend I spend my days.
People who was asking me, like, what is actually your job,
Like you just seem to be like vibing online And
my job is my job is barbing gone there. But
my I work as a writer. I write about recovery
and I also am I you know, creativity is a
(05:35):
really big part of my recovery as you know, a
musician by trade, So I engage with using music as
a tool to self experience and self sooth and self
express at the same time with the voy does and
I love it. Yeah. So that's that's that's a little
slice of me. I love whales, I love anime, I love.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know, just.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Reading and I yeah, that's that's your little whistle stop
tour of everything that makes me feel.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Alive, incredible. So three things I'm gonna connect with you.
One one, My younger son is seventeen, so he's just
about to graduate high school and he is going to
Savannah College of Art and Design here and in Georgia
to major in creative writing. So like now, yeah, totally.
(06:31):
So now like every time I meet writers, I'm like,
I may or may not ask my son to call
you someday.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Please, Oh my god. Yeah, Like my kind of journey's
being a writer is such a strange side story journey,
like because obviously like a major to music, I want
three degrees in music and then discovered in lockdown, like,
oh shit, I don't want to do that anymore. It's
like it's kind of like that's, you know, being a
performers when it's raced for me, like what do I do?
(07:00):
My original ambition was always to be a writer, a readers. Yeah,
by god. I wrote my first book in air quotes
when I was like ten and it was in and
it was about a mermaid. There was clip on it
like it and I was like, so I was like,
wet book. And then around you know that's not what
a book is. But and then you know, obviously I
(07:22):
have the meme account brutal recovery. So I realized that
like I had kind of and I've been doing that
for about five years now, so I was kind of
like writing all along. So I feel like that was
like my neglected ambition kind of just like you know,
simmering away always and then I've got my own book
is actually coming out next year based on you know
I talk about on the page. So yeah, I support
(07:45):
you know, writers who like feel that like Arcane urged
to write like that's just absolutely it. So congratulations to
your side my way anytime, if it wants to talk about.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I love that, and I would say I'm being uh.
I was about to say preposterous, but that was not
the word I was looking for. I was looking for presumptuous,
which maybe shairs you know, maybe share some things to
say that maybe even part of your magic formula is
getting back to your original ambition.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But first, okay, my second my first son, that's my
that's my second son.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
My first son is finishing up his freshman year of college,
and I'm a psychiatrist. So he's majoring in psychology, which
I love, and but he's minoring in music because like
you just said, he and I learned this as I
was like reading his college essays. Really found his sense
(08:46):
of identity and self and belonging when he started playing music,
and music has become one of his you know, main
coping and resilient strategies and so he's putting music and
psychology together so that he again help people learn to
heal through music.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
That is absolutely astonishing. I love that because you know,
music can access to herself, other people, and something greater
than ourselves, like that is it's just it's magic. And
you know, I I really relate to you know what
you said that like when you know it's so so
opera was my craft and people say like what was
(09:28):
you know, a girl from like the west coast of Scotland,
from a sheep farm, what was she doing sing an opera?
And you know, they for me so like it was
a road show came to my came to my town,
like they did like outreach stuff out into the countryside,
and this road show came and they were like, hi, guys,
like this is opera and I was like, oh my god,
(09:49):
like these people are screaming like I was. I wanted
to scream, I said, I was screaming on the inside.
So I was like, wait, if you're an opera singer,
you can screaming sign me like yeah, so yeah. And
then for a while, like you know, you know, being
(10:10):
in the class commusic scene, like there is a huge
amount of the discipline and it gives you a huge
amount of self esteem. And where I kind of lost
my way with that career is I kind of replaced
the praise of being a class commusician for love. So
I thought that if I was perfect, i'd beloved right. Yeah,
And there in life's the problem. So the fact that
(10:32):
he's doing a psychology degree alongside it his self for success,
that is perfect.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Thank you, thank you, Okay. And then here's the part
I loved. I said, tell the listeners who is Lauren?
And one of the many things you said was and
I was a stay at home you know, lonely.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I think you said alcoholic. That was only one.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That was only one of the things that you use
to tell people about yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It was grew up in Scotland. It was opera.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It was wrote a book about a mermaid when I
was ten. It was came back to writing. It was
like writing for a living. It was all so much more.
And I think that is one of the most important
messages that I want people to know about people who
have experienced addiction, people who are still experiencing it, people
(11:27):
who are in recovery, is that it is but one
piece of the puzzle that is that person.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh my god, what beautiful observation. Like I'm really happy
that that came quite organically, because that's you know, that's
why I want to convince people of like with the
writing that I do, like you know that that's not
you know, my my story is like you knows, as
I said, I was a state at home drinker, but
you know, I had and you'd think that being a
state home drinker, you would take yourself out of harm's way,
(11:57):
but like you know, a lot of chit went down,
a lot of you know, another one of my things
that I consider myself in recovery from is you know,
I have a lot of behaviors around sex and love
that have caused me tremendous issues all the way into sobriety.
You know, I'm in recovery from eating disorders and you know,
(12:19):
self injury was a huge part of my story as well.
And you know what for me, recovery has granted me.
Like I thought that the rest of my life was
just going to be weighing up and battling those things.
And I will be honest, like the first maybe two
years of my recovery, it was like I had a
very slow two years of just working out yeah, how
(12:43):
my brain worked, and I didn't know how to do anything.
Like I got sober when I was twenty five. Started
drinking when I was thirteen, so I missed out my
developmental years. So like I was a twenty five year old,
like learning how to make a cup of coffee, yeah,
because I've never made result a cup of coffee. But
what I found, like you know, with having a bit
(13:03):
of time, like six years, it's it's it's a chunk
of time. So you know, eventually you started to have
problems in the places where you didn't have places before,
and then you work out how to deal with those
problems in the places where you didn't have places before,
and then you get a life. And it's like and
for for me because like I had a really quick
(13:24):
progression and because I got sober young, I didn't really
have anything to lose, Like I didn't lose a marriage
because I'd never been married. I didn't lose the house.
I never bought a house like I was at the
start of my career, so I never got like, well
I had been fired, make no mistake, but like I
never had like that professional fall from grace Yeah, So
my recovery journey has simply been the process of like
(13:46):
building myself and finding like, you know, what I actually
am and having the unique opportunity to like build from that.
Like it's it's been, and that's I want to be
an advocate for getting sober young because a lot of
the time I was like, well, what's the point of
me getting sober? Like I'm a pointless, useless human being
that couldn't even like do anything right. I'm twenty I'm
(14:08):
twenty five, and I spend my days drinking vodka by
myself trying not to cut myself, Like what pointless existence?
And then six years later, I'm just like as the
other podcast dave been a dupy podcast. He was like,
you love more than anyone I've ever met, you know,
so like that's recovery.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Recovery, that's recovery. Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I love this so much so dedicating this episode of
Unaddictioned podcast to our young people. Yeah, yeah, out shout
out to my young people, because you're like, kind of
what I heard you saying, is this other idea that
I want people to let go of, that like there
(14:45):
has to be a rock bottom and you have a
new experienced bottom. You're like I am twenty five years
old at home struggling through this vaka bottle, trying not
to cut myself every day, right, Like that is emotional
pain and struggle, but it does tend to be described
in those quote older people ways lost the marriage, lost
(15:06):
a job, kids, you, et cetera. And so can you
talk to us Lauren at twenty five? How did you
even become aware of the concept that, like there could
be recovery, something could be different. How did you take
your first steps on the journey? How did you know
what first steps you wanted to take, like share share
(15:28):
that part of the experience with us? Oh are you
people specifically?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yes, for the young people, like this is my you know,
I think that in writing, right, we talked about how
like a usp like unique selling point, like you've got
to make your book like you know what unique, And
I kind of see that like on the personal levels
purpose like what has been what has happened to me?
Or what have I got that, like it is unique
to me that I can use to like help people,
(15:56):
and that for me is like the fact that I
got sober young. There's a ton in early stuff on
my story. So yes, this is for the young people.
So I actually tried to get sober for the first
time when I was nineteen. I had a really, really,
really big consequence. When I was nineteen, I was on
a tour of Italy, was an opera company, and I
(16:19):
had been you know, it was very clear that I
did not drink like other people from a very young age,
like you know, the first time I drank, I black.
I started drinking around the time that I was trigger
warning I was being sexually abused by a teacher, and
I realized that when I drank, I didn't have to
(16:41):
remember that. So I was already like you know, drinking
was my only friend. It was my protector. It was
the thing that was going to make me okay. And
because I didn't deal with that trauba until I got sober,
I am. Yeah. I just my drinking was it was
ballistic like it was. It was feral, you know, God
bless that girl, like she was just doing what she
(17:03):
needed to get by.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, it's bad to.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Survive exactly, like it was pure survival. Also, I was
in Italy and I ran off with this group of
Italian men and I don't know what I took. I
just know that I took something and blocked out and
my friends found me. I don't remember the night, but
I remember waking up in like bed and that my
(17:28):
best friend was crying and she looks at me and
shows like I cannot even stand the sight of you
right now, and I was like, oh, I have messed up.
So that scared me sober for a while, but I
did not seek any help because I did not think
that I needed help, because I was like, I'm nineteen
years old. I am not doing anything that any nineteen
year old hasn't done. And because I didn't seek the help,
(17:52):
I turned back to drinking. I turned back to drinking
in a way that was so intense that I made
an attempts on my life and ended up on the sideboard.
And they said, you need to get sober or you
will not make the age of twenty five. But because
I didn't want to make the age of twenty five,
I was like, okay, don't time me with a good
time fantastic. So I got myself into another corner. This
(18:19):
was another corner to do with men, and I was
kind of trapped between two men and I thought, this
is absolutely unbearable. I'm at the Mercy of bad Men.
I'm going to move to America. So I'd always had
the idea to move to America because there was lots
of opera opportunities over there. I got I managed to
apply to school, I got a scholarship. I was like fantastic,
(18:42):
Like here we go. And then I met all of
these new people that didn't know that I was like,
you know, Lauren, the feral drinker that you didn't want
to go out with because she, you know, ended up
in the Psychechord. Like they thought I was fun and
I was foreign and I was Scottish and this is
what Scottish people are like. And I was like, yes,
this is what Scottish people are like. It's not what
Scottis people are like. But you know, when you're an alcoholic,
(19:04):
like you know, like I was like, I've fed into
that stereotype. But then even they were like, we've got
rehearsal tomorrow. And then it got to the point that
like I was drinking before shows, and then it got
to the point that I was, you know, blackout four shows,
like these were three hour operas and I was blackout.
And there was this one singer who was sober and
(19:28):
he said to me, he was like, hey, buddy, you
know are you Are you okay? And I kind of like,
you know, and then I had that first moment of
break down like I'm not okay, Like everything is terrible,
like I'm so scared, but I can't let anyone know,
like drinking is killing me, but it's also the only
(19:48):
thing that's keeping me together. And then he you know,
pointed me in the direction of resources. He told me
his story and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get sober.
And I think this, like this is the part of
the story that I always hesitate to tell, but like
I start drinking again after that. I do think it's
important to recognize that, like that story wasn't for nothing
because that planted a seed I could not forget.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
They need you.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes, So yeah, that wasn't the moment that I got sober,
but it was a moment that I couldn't forget.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And you know, and even do not ever hesitate to
tell this part of the story ever again, Like what
did the young folks say, like say it with your
chest like this, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Like this is.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So important because it is dangerous the idea that if
you try and then you drink again. There's no reason
to try, because there's something about you that is dangerous.
Like let's plant every single seed. Let's water every single seed,
and one seed will bloom one day. We just keep gardening,
(20:55):
We just keep gardening.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Oh my god, my heart just all opened at that.
That was stunning. Okay, yeah, and he he was you know,
he was my first gardener, like he really and we
still talk, like, you know, we met each other years later,
and you know, after that moment, and I did get
a little bit of sober time after that. I did
it by myself because I wasn't in a position to
(21:18):
ask for help. But I remember, like a couple of
weeks later, like I was in a practice room and
I was dronk and he came in and he was like, hey,
how are you doing? And I was so full of
shamed because I was drunk. And this was the guy
that like taught me that, you know, you could be
sober and happy. But as I said, like, and how
am I to say that in that short period that
I had sober, like that wasn't a life saving period
of time, like any period of time that I spent sober,
(21:41):
even if it didn't stick like that was useful time.
So yeah, I then moved to a different college town
because I graduated from that degree. I did it. I
wasn't ready to have a professional career because I was
a drunk basically, and I didn't want to go home
because there was nothing there for me. I didn't have
(22:02):
any friends, I didn't like my I have a very
loving family relationship, but like I didn't want to show
my family like that I was a failure, if you
know what I mean. Like I was like, I can't
go home and tell them that, like I've squandered this
huge chance. So I got and I said another master's degree.
Something I was looking out for me because I go
a scholarship to this master's degree. And I moved there.
(22:23):
And I remember moving there and I was thinking, like, Lawren,
please stay sober, like nice, And what did I do?
I got, I touched down and got drunk, and I
was like, you are so useless, Like I hate you
so much. You can't even promise that you've made to yourself,
you know, just all of that self clothing. And then
my what really really really brought me to my knees
(22:44):
was a physical withdrawal that required hospitalization. And at that point,
you know, I'd been there before. It was not my
first time that was hospitalized. But something was different. And
this is kind of like an inexplicable moment in my
recovery story that you know, even the loads of people
had tried to get me help and I'd literally just
(23:04):
like left the country or moved state. One final person
said to me, you know, I thought she was going
to say your visa has been revoked. You got to
move home. And I remember thinking, you know, I felt relief.
I was twenty five, so I was like, Okay, well
this is the moment I killed myself, Like this is
the moment that it's all over. And she said to me,
(23:24):
we're going to get you help, and something inside me
just said take that help. Was it was a call
from inside the house and it just said you are done.
And I don't know what it was. You know, I
am a twelve stepper, so like I do consider that
to be like paragrater than myself, because it didn't come,
(23:47):
you know, from anywhere I could explain or understand. But
that was the moment that I said, yes, please help me.
Like I don't know what I expected on the other side,
I was terrified, but I just, yeah, there was just
something inside. Maybe it's a soul, maybe it's my rebellious nature,
maybe it's just it was that last kernel of like
(24:09):
hoop inside me. That Yeah, it just says like you're done,
Like this, this is done. And that's not to say
the next I was so easier, but like that was
then and as of my current you know spriy today,
that that was my that was my last drink and
god willing will be my last drink.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, such an emotional story starting all the way back
trigger warning, like you said, from the teacher that violated you,
and so many young people having those experiences and not
being able to get help for any number of very
(24:46):
complex reasons. Even how that probably carries forward to the
self loathing you had, the self harm, the drinking, just
to survive.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
The love and men.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
You've yeah that you've that you've managed.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think going forward kind of with this gardening theme,
like that was beautiful. First of all, you said he
was my first gardener. That like made me a little teary.
That was so beautiful. And then this visa lady right,
like visa lady, this is my whole thing is that
each and every one of us, we don't have to
(25:24):
know anything but just compassion.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Like probably.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I didn't know anything, like she wasn't an addiction expert, right.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Right exactly, that's it. Yes, Oh my god, then you've
you've hit the nail on the head actually, and you know,
I really too. Yeah, sorry, like that that just really
struck me, like there are so many people. For for
a very long time, the only people that I knew
in my life were so wear alcoholics and people in recovery,
(26:00):
largely because I was terrified of everyone else on planet
Earth and I only wanted to speak to people in recovery.
But my life is is very large now, like and
I've got lots of you know, friends and a freelancer,
I wrote lots of different clients, and you know, so
I'd say that balance is now like fifty to fifty, like,
you know, people in recovery and the people who've never
experienced addiction. And something that really touched me when I
(26:25):
when Matthew Perry died. That was a really unsettling moment
for a lot of people in recovery, and as obviously
is when anyone like like I've lost lots of people
in my recovery journey to addiction, and you know, when
someone who is high profile I passes the way, like,
it just kicks up all of that. And it was
(26:48):
someone in my life who has never experienced addiction that
touched that reached out to me. My sister as well,
who's you know, obviously got the experience of addiction of
being a sister of an adult. But yeah, and it's
this this friend never experienced addiction and didn't really know
much about my story, so that wasn't like the main
feature of our friendship was like, hey, like, I'm just
(27:08):
just to let you know, like I'm thinking of you today,
like it's much and how difficult this is and wow,
like and she was just coming as if Pasha shouldn't
get to be an expert. She didn't need to like,
you know, quote things at me. It was just that
little heartfelt moment of like, hey, how bet you're hurting
right now, and if you want to talk about it,
I'm here. Oh my god. Like just the small but
(27:31):
significant moments that are really big. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I love it a lot of times.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
The book is called six mind Changing Conversations that could
save a life is the what do I call this subtitle?
And it's really we have been so afraid to talk
about addiction because it's scary. It's ravishing the people we love,
it's stealing them from us, you know, causing us a
lot of loss. But what you just said is literally
(27:56):
the script for every single conversation, which is just I
think I see you hurting right now, just want you
to know I'm here. It is that is the beginning
of every single conversation. And your first gardener, that's how
he came to you planet the seed saved your life.
That the's a lady saved your life, your sister right here,
(28:20):
like it maybe was not at a point where your
literal life had to be saved, but like put another
little seed in your in your spirit, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, totally. I think like underneath or I'll speak for myself,
like underneath my addiction and underneath my alcoholism is a
fundamental fear that no one cares about me, like nobody
loves me. Like someone said to me once that like
drinking is a longing for love. Like and you know,
there's a song by Frightened Rabbit called Wish I Wish
(28:53):
it was sober and like there's a line and that's
like a blush of love. It hits me without warning.
That's how he describes strings King. Yeah, and that's how
drinking was for me. That was like the blush of
love that I could not receive from any other way.
And yes, so like those little the signals you know,
when we're in a place to receive them, that like,
(29:15):
oh I matter, like I'm matter these people and even
though I'm this like Haywire alcoholic, like and sometimes with
my friends aren't in recovery, I'm kind of other of
myself because I'm like, oh, I'm like the high maintenance,
recovering weirdo like you know, which is not true. That's
the percent I have. Just like yeah, like those reiterations
(29:36):
like of you, you matter, and it was you know,
I'm I am very lucky and I will I will,
I will always acknowledge this that like I'm a you know,
I'm an articulate educated like white women, so that you know,
I get a lot of I kind of get a
you know, I'm an acceptable alcoholic, shall we say, Like
people are comfortable hearing my story because I can put
(29:57):
it into good words and I can say like who
got these the And one of my charges, I suppose,
is like I really really want it to be that
we extend that level of compassion to every single person,
and that you know, whether their job of choice is
ivy use, IVY drug use or workaholism or alcoholism, you
(30:18):
know it. You know, it's all. It's an exercise and compassion.
And sorry, I'm so I'm in so many tangents, but
I'm just so fired up by this conversation about compassion
because like it's it's so portent.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, it's so potent. It's so potent. And there's something
about you matter that is actually I know what it is.
I was gonna say, an innate biological need. It like
literally is based in dope. It is the adopted for
just a minute, it is like an innate need for survival.
(30:52):
And then there's also something particularly particularly potent about you
matter so much to me that I am making this
effort for you, right for you. Yeah, okay, time is flying,
Holy schmoles lace. So I want to get into your
(31:13):
magic formula. So I heard you say twelve stepper. I
heard you say my usp My unique selling problem for
a human is like purpose. I hear your passion around
young people. So can you just share maybe what your
magic formula is today and how it has changed.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh that's such a good question. Okay, So yes, I
am a told stepper. I'm a member of various twelve
step fellowships. It's not for everybody, it's certainly for me,
and I think that the reason that that works for
me is the idea of being part of something and I,
(32:01):
you know, and I think that that means for belonging
as someone who is chronically overed and has a head
that tells me like you don't belong everyone's looking at you,
You're weird. To be in that space was not always
comfortable at first, but it kind of resocialized me first
to be like, okay, like this is how you have
a conversation, this is how you make up a coffee.
(32:23):
And the reason why I still do that and why
that's you know, part of my magic formula today is
because I want to be a helper. Like I spent
my whole life being like, why is not what helping me? Yeah?
And I spent a lot of my life feeling you know,
like when you've I've been abused something you'll always hear
(32:45):
is you know, if you tell someone bad, things will happen.
And that was like the first space where I told
someone something honestly and good things happened, and I learned
the purpose of honesty and coming back to myself. So
you know that's.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Because you said it.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Twelve step is not for everyone, and I'm here to
tell you nothing is for everyone. Something is for everyone,
And I want to put the emphasis on what you said,
which is the twelfth step fellowship, the sense of belonging.
It didn't always feel comfortable, so I always tell people like,
(33:29):
just try everything and then if it's not for you, great,
we're gonna try something else. But what you just said
just now, especially as a survivor of childhood abuse, that
was the first time I told somebody something quote bad
and something good happened. That is extremely healing, supremely healing. Okay, sorry,
(33:53):
go ahead, jumping in your magic.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, well you just perfectly summer so sucimply exactly like
what I meant. And I love that because I'm very
long form.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
You know, long form competition our podcast.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
So so yeah, in I So, I was in therapy
for my first year and a half of recovery. I
was doing like a talk therapy and kind of just
to get the words for what my uh my brain
was and like what you know, the voice experiences in
a way that was very very honest with a professional
(34:37):
because I had experienced psychosis before, so we just needed
to like make make sure that, you know, I didn't
fall into any extreme mental health consequences. So that was
available to me, and I was very grateful for that.
And then in recent years, last year I did I
(34:57):
started trauma therapy, which was really good because I know
research trauma because my master's thesis was the impact of
trauma on the voice. So I had like a very
intellectual understanding of trauma. And then I realized, like, oh man,
like this I started this research for me. It was
always about me now emotional understanding exactly right. And I'm
(35:22):
very very glad that that came. That that came a
year ago, because any earlier I don't know if I
necessarily would have been in place to handle it. My
my third year of recovery was just the rockiest road
I've ever experienced. It was the you know, it was
a pandemic year. I had a break up, I had
an unemployment, I had a you know, in your homemost experience,
(35:42):
it was it was a lot. So if I was
going through that then I would have lost my hand died.
So and I suppose, like like I said earlier, like
my recovery journey has been quite long and slow so
far because I came in and I didn't know how
to do anything. I couldn't have a conversation. I was
so scared. I was very paranoid. I you know, just
(36:06):
really took it very gently in the first year, and
then the second year I got a little bit braver,
And where my recovery is at to day, it's like
taking what I've learned in through my various modalities, you know,
through the twelve step recovery scene, through more trauma informed stuff,
through talk therapy, and applying that like to making my
(36:30):
life biggers. So thank you know, there's a really great quote,
you know, pain is the touchstone of spiritual progress, and
that had absolutely been true for me. But where I'm
at today is like joy is also a touchstone of
my spiritual progress. So where I'm looking now is where
are they? You know, I feel strong enough to like
(36:51):
carry the vibration of joy, and I've got a lot
making up to do because I had a very sad
twenty five years, so make sure experience and joy in
my life. So that's kind of like the little thing
that you know, I've been focusing on and you know,
underpinning that with all of the principles of like honesty
(37:12):
and gratitude and service and love, and from those things
has come this joy and I've become you know, very
It's funny because like when I got sober, I wanted
to be like really serious and like a loose all
these things, and I've just become very enthusiastic and exuberant
and excitable. So yeah, and I think that's like, you know,
(37:33):
to kind of wrap up on my magic formula. Like
I didn't consider myself a worthy candidate for sobriety because
I thought that like my life was pointless. I was like,
I'm never going to make anything of my life and
me being alive is just inherently painful. But today it's
(37:57):
kind of like, you know, I need to keep building
this life that I don't want to run away from.
And that has happened, as I tho, very very very
slowly for me. But you know, if you want to,
you know, if taken yourself seriously and just make it,
you know, saying yourself like, your life is not a joke,
(38:17):
your life is not pointless, and then putting in this
teeny tiny actions day by day to amount to something
that like might not be magnificent, like I'm certainly not
rich and certainly not famous. I'm certainly not like you know,
I don't have a mortgage on, a husband and all
of that stuff, Like I've got boyfriend in a flat
that'll though. So it's you know, like just finding that
(38:41):
life you don't want to run away from with tiny, incremental,
small but significant efforts. You can't shortcut it. But like
along the way, somewhere the process became joyful, and I'm
very grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I love it. I love every single word of it.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
So honesty, gratitude, service, purpose, actually purpose.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I think maybe it came first.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Gratitude, fellowship, service, honesty.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Joy.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I love it so much. Okay, So in the last few.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Minutes of every episode, maybe I used to say like
half the time, and now I think maybe it's only
like a quarter of the time.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Do I remember to tell people upfront that I'm going
to ask this question? So did not tell you a front?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Now on the spot.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
This word n addiction for the book. We made it
up and the idea is unlearned what you think you
know about addictions, Undo stigma that's killing people. Uncover one
conversation that we need to be having. And so my
question for you and I would love it. I'm legit
serious pointing this episode at our young people who think
(39:56):
their life is useless. There's one thing you want them
to unmirn. One stigma you want us to undo that
we're pointing at these young people, one conversation you want
us to uncover, to have with these young people, what
would you leave us with? Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
God, I think by what immediately came to my mind there?
And I guess like if I'm imagining like my twenty
five year old self in front of me, and you know,
I had really marked I what I thought my you know,
what I thought would be a life worth living by
(40:40):
achievement and by success and by the path that you know,
generations before me had followed. And that wasn't necessarily a
viable path for me. And you know for young people today.
You know we've seen, you know, all these global financial
recessions we had. We're perpetually like over stimulated by more
(41:02):
information than a central nervous system can handle. What our parents,
God bless them, prepared us for, they couldn't have predicted.
So we're kind of you know, for instance, like the internet,
like that's the we were the person people teaching our
(41:23):
parents how to use the internet. Like, you know, we're
in this weird period of time where everything just feels
like it's getting worse. And I thought that I couldn't
get sober because I couldn't change anything, Like I thought
that it was just a pointless endeavor. And I suppose
what I want to say to twenty five year old
Lauren and all of the young people that like, your
(41:45):
existence in itself is vital, Like it's not just important.
It's vital to your communities, to your family, to your friends,
to your neighbors, to the people that you pass in
the street. You know you are and whether you believe
it or not, you are vital. There's something inside you
(42:11):
that like only you can give. So like if you
are a caring person, like care for someone, If you're
a friendly person, like be a friend. If you're a
funny person, like be funny, and like find through action,
like really feel that because It's one of those things
that you like, you don't believe it till you see it,
(42:32):
but other people see it before you do, and you
know it's yeah, Like the word vital just keeps coming
to my mind because I don't love the people in
my life because they're like important or famous or changing
the world. Like I love them for what they do
on the day to day, like for the small interactions
that we have, for you know, just everything that they are. Yeah,
(42:56):
So you know it's yeah, so yeah, it's so easy
to be hoped us and you know the world is
engineered for us to be hopefuls, so we keep buying
stuff and zoning out. So let's remember our inherent worth
and you know, let's do this together. Thanks. We really
need each.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Other, we really really do.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Oh man, I felt that, like all the way down
to my pinky toes, existence is vital.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Listen, I loved this conversation.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Oh my god, I wish were dead. How far hours.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
We can buil all of it? Man, Lauren, thank you
so so much, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Oh my god, thank you so much for having me.
This has been so much fun, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, come on, thank you so much for tuning in
and If you like this episode, please check out my
book on Addiction, Six mind changing Conversations that Could Save
a Life, available at Barnes Andnoble, Bookshop, dot org, Union
Squaring Company, Amazon, and wherever books are sold. If you
like to this episode, please share it with someone you
(44:11):
think may need to hear it. Also, please subscribe to
this podcast and leave a five star review that helps
us reach any and everyone who may be looking for
support in the face of addiction.
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