October 29, 2024 • 40 mins
Flavor Flaaav!
William Jonathan Drayton Jr., AKA Flavor Flav (Public Enemy; Rock and Roll Hall of Fame) joins us to talk about his recovery journey from crack, cocaine, alcohol, and cigarettes. He credits his journey to God and his mother.
In this episode:
- Flavor Flav's inspiration for taking his first steps toward recovery
- What keeps Flav on the path, and what keeps him from meetings
- The role of purpose and meaning in recovery
- Flavor Flav's magic formula
- New projects
Connect with Flavor Flav and stay up to date with what he's up to: @flavorflavofficial
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What does recovery look like when it's not designed for you?
I'm doctor and Zinga Harrison, and in season four of
Unaddictioned podcast, we're featuring black and brown guests sharing their
journeys through the unique barriers to recovery shaped by their identities.
These guests have not only defined recovery on their terms,
(00:22):
but they're also creating pathways and communities that can help
you or a loved one find recovery too.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Okay, so it's just us three and the place to
be and we can rock and from the bottom to
the top.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Ay Ay, Now check.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
This shout if so happens that you take a screenshot
of this right here, uh huh, because each this is
a fly frame, I think, I mean it looks good, right,
I think all three of us just kind of photogenic. Comeo, Okay,
I'm just saying yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think
(00:57):
all three of us is kind of photogenic. You know,
I'm saying, cree shot it is in the trozan. Look,
I don't know about you too, Guys, when it comes
down in my photo, fine dollars for singles, ten dollars
with double ex bulgess. Thank you, appreciate you I have
my money. How you doing this morning? Guys? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean, I said I was not gonna come on
here and be a super fan, but it's just not
possible because listen, I grew up in Indianapolis, Indiana in
the eighties, so I'm born in nineteen seventy six. My
father was commander of the Black Panther Militia in Indianapolis,
n A founder and commander. So when fight the Power
(01:44):
came out and we had activism in rap music, there
was no way I could not grow up being a
super fan.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And I have been a super fan my entire life.
And then I saw you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I watched all your shows, and then I saw you
at the Olympics with the women's.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Water polo team and I was like, come through flame.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And then I did not even know this whole time,
You're in recovery, which is the whole reason we are
here this morning, and I was just like up twenty
notches from already super fandom.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So thank you. You know what, James made a song
about you, superfan?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Now you know good, Well that's not the words.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So that we know it's super freak. But I turned
it in the super Fan it was it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It's it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Thank you full of love though and everything. You know
what I'm saying. Not only that, but God is good,
you know what I'm saying. You know, when it comes
down to recovery. You know, this is something that I've
been wanting for myself for a long time. Plus my
mom's been wanting this for me for a long time.
You know. My mom passed away about close to baby,
(03:08):
I don't know, nine or ten years ago, something like that,
you know what I'm saying. But you know one thing
that I say. The body is nothing but the shell
that goes in the ground. But we donna die. So
my mom, my mom ain't dead.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
She's still here, That's right.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
You know what I'm saying. It's just her body went
in the ground. That's the shell, you know what I'm saying.
But my mom stays around, she becomes she becomes the
guardian angel. She watches over me, my whole family, my kids, everybody,
no matter how faull apart was spreaded. Yeah, she can
watch us all at one time, you know. So, so
(03:47):
I'm saying, I'm just happy for her crossover and being
that I know that she's here with me by me
getting myself sober. I know, it's just making her real happy,
you know what I mean. So that's what I was
taking you too, you know when I said that, you know,
my mom's passed away, this and that, that and it,
but she's still here. Yeah, and this is something that
(04:10):
you always wanted for me, you know what I'm saying.
So I'm happy that I'm able to be on the
road to give to give her that, but also for
myself too.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You know, I'm sixty five and a lot of my
friends that I came up with, they are not here
to talk about it, you know what I'm saying. And
the thing that really took me for a ride was
when my boy Coolio passed away. My boy Coolio passed away.
You know what I'm saying. I said to myself, up, Yeah,
(04:45):
you better stay this way, buddy, Yeah, because you could
be the next one.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
It's devastating how many trying to be in them numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Man.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know what I'm saying, I'm trying to stick around
to make a difference. I'm trying to stick around and
watch my my grandkids grow up and graduate from school.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So God is good. You know what I'm saying because
He let us wake up today to have another day
of life. You know, I'm saying, word up every day
that we live. God gives us the power to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, so true, It's so true.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
So Flave, will you on this podcast?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So I mentioned that Jen reached out and she was like,
when you're going to write a book? And I was like, never,
And then she was like, and you're going to write
a book. And so the name of the book is
an Addiction six mind changing conversations that could save a life.
And so what we try to do on this podcast
is have conversations that might make someone say I relate
(05:45):
to that and maybe this could be part of my
recovery journey, or maybe I could start my recovery journey,
or maybe that's for me when I thought it wasn't before.
And so can you just share with us your mom
wanted this for you for a long time. When would
you say, from your perspective, your recovery journey started, what
(06:07):
God had started?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
What has it been like?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, let me say it like this, because you know
I've I've been a drug addict for many years of
my life. I've been an alcoholic for many years of
my life, you know what I'm saying. And I've been
through I don't know, maybe for rehabs, you know what
(06:32):
I'm saying in the whole nine. And each time that
I went, I almost got it, but then again, deep
down inside, I guess I wasn't ready, you know what
I'm saying in the whole nine. So it's been an
off and on thing, off and on thing, you know
what I'm saying. I feel that it started when I
(06:53):
said to myself, I'm going to do this. You know,
I'm going to do this to challenge myself, you know. So,
so that's when the day started, when I started challenging myself.
It's been a little road. It's been a little road,
you know what I'm saying in the whole nine. But
God is good, you know what I'm saying. And there
(07:14):
have been people too that that's been on alcohol for
a while. I managed to talk talk them off of it.
So I managed to help a few people out. I
thank God for that power, yeah saying. But still in all,
it's all up to you. You know what I'm saying.
(07:37):
When you're ready, you're going to stop. When you're not ready,
you're not going to stop. You know, and a lot
of people says, well, I couldn't help it. I couldn't stop. Yes,
you could have. You just didn't want to help yourself
to stop. You just didn't want to stop. You can
do whatever you want. Anything in life that you want
(07:57):
to do, you can. You can accomplish that, and you
can achieve that. So even to all of the drug
addicts and alcoholics and the matthe users and all of
that stuff, if they really want it for themselves, deep
down in their heart, they will stop and it would
stay like that. You know, that's if you're ready.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And what do you think, Because I think there's an
important part of your message that's empowering, right, Like there's
a part of the I can't do it that decreases
people's ability to change their substance use. And then there's
also a part of it that there are external things that,
(08:42):
even when you're ready, make it hard to stay stopped.
Like you said, stopping is one thing. Stay and stops
when life is throwing a whole lot at you can
be another thing. And so if you look back, and
I'll say you've been to rehab four times, which is
amazing because every time the sea gets bigger, right, And
sometimes we look at it like, oh, you went back
(09:04):
four times, like somehow that's a failure. No, every time
the sea got bigger, every time the power got stronger.
If you look at either people, places, things, situations that
kind of helped make you stronger in that ability to
(09:24):
stay stopped, what would some of those things be.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, first of all, one of the main things is
is to change change the places where you be. Yet,
you know what I'm saying. You can't be around places
that had you sick, you know, and expect to be
all right. It don't work like that, you know what
(09:48):
I'm saying. I mean, like I said, you got to
be ready and deep down in your in your heart ready,
you know what I'm saying, in the whole nine.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And it can be hard not to go to those
places when those places are really part of your life.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time, big time, you know what
I'm saying. Like like bars, for instance, which was always
a big part of my life. It took me a
little minute before I can really go back in a bar. Today.
I could get my friends drunk and I don't have
to drink.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And your two years you're two years in from not drinking.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, boy, I say, I say, I say about three.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Okay, three, that's what's up.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I think alcohol and cigarettes are two of the hardest
drugs to stop, just because our culture is so in love.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
With them, no doubt. Hey I was, I'm sorry, but
I was just being reminded, you know, saying that I'm
going on four.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Years okay, four, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I like it, going on four going on four yeah, yeah,
a little journey. It's been a little journey. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And fifteen, did I get it right? Fifteen from cocaine.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yes, fifteen, yeah, about fifteen, fifteen to sixteen years now
from the hard hard drugs cocaine crack. Yeah, you know,
cause that was really my drug of choice, coke, crack
and alcohol. What I'm saying, you know, I mean today today,
I still smoke my weed. So I'm not going to
say I'm squeaky clean. But I've been doing this stuff
(11:26):
all my life, you know what I'm saying. So the
main things that would really take me under, I'm glad
that I stopped.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yes, you know what that is flave the like official
term for that, we call it harm reduction. And I
think there's something really I'm just gonna say it dangerous
about requiring people to be squeaky clean, because it would
be like, it doesn't matter that you stopped, like you said,
(11:57):
the things that were really killing me cocaine, cocaine, alcohol,
and they would be like, you're not sober because you're
smoking marijuana. It's like, I'm more likely to be alive
tomorrow not doing cocaine, not drinking alcohol.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And so I want somebody to hear that Flave said,
I'm not squeaky clean, and you know I buck against
this word clean anyway, because you are clean even when
you're using drugs. Listen, you are not dirty. You are clean,
but you don't have to be squeaky like. We want
you to be alive.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So if you can put down one thing, put.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Down one thing, hey, listen, the more you can put
down the merria and the better your life would be.
And I know that there's a lot of people that's
been doing it so long and they think that they
can't conquer putting it down, but they can't because I'm
just one of many that was able to do it.
(12:57):
But there are many that was able to do it
and they're still doing it even like twenty five thirty years.
A matter of fact, I was talking to someone last night.
I went to the New York Liberty game last night,
and I was speaking to somebody that's going on thirty two.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yes, is that incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I don't care what nobody's saying, but my little four
years is just as big as they're thirty.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Two for real, period.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Dot.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I'm just I'm just grateful for the strength that I
have to be able to just keep it going. Man, Yeah,
keep it going and try to encourage others that's not
doing too well, that's not doing good.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I think that's a huge part of it, too, Flave,
which is why I was so super excited for you
to come on, because your voice has a really far reach,
and I feel like we're just starting to get to
this place where we can open put loving arms around
people that are struggling with drugs. Like it used to
(14:05):
be all about judgment and keep it a secret and
don't talk about that. And now Flaith can come out
and be like I got four plus fifteen. I'm trying
to get to this thirty two. Like this person that
I met last night, I think that will save people's lives.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And you know, I say. The more that we speak
about it, the stronger it would make us, you know
what I'm saying. So it's very important too, man that
I mean you know me, I don't. I don't really.
I haven't been to a meeting in a minute. This
is my meeting, Yes, this is my meeting right here.
You know what I'm saying. The reason why I haven't
(14:43):
been to a meeting in a minute is because I've
been doing so much moving around and I've just been
going and going and going and going and going and
going and going and going and going. Is that my
excuse not to make a meeting. No, that's not my excuse.
It's just that I haven't made any You know that
I haven't made any meetings. But that light is too bright.
(15:04):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It did look like you just the light shone down
from heaven all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Hey, that was God right there, Like God, I know
you want to I know you want to bless me
with a shine, but at least let me get to
see while I'm why why you're making me shine? Don't
blind me. Don't blind me with my own shine? Right,
God is just blinding me with my own shine? You know?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh, my God, that's actually what I said when I
found out that you said, yes, you were gonna come on.
That has been my experience of you my whole life
is that you shine on other people, and you actually
also lift other people up to shine. That's what my
concept of you has been.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Thank you, Thank you, And honestly, that's what my concept
of my life has kind of been. And when I
do that, I look for nothing in return. It just
comes off from the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
So I have this idea that I call the magic
formula flave. And the magic formula is once you decide
for you what recovery is, what is the formula that
you're working that helps to keep your feet planted in recovery?
And so you mentioned one, you were like, this is
my meeting today. So like helping other people is part
(16:28):
of your magic formula, it sounds like actual meetings are
part of your magic formula when the timing is right
for that.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
What are other things that you do to help.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Keep your feet firmly on the ground that you have
defined as recovery for yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well, the answer to that is the main thing, the
main thing that all of us need to practice and
to keep saying. It's a one word answer. No.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Oh okay, I thought you were gonna say a different word.
You just took me to church because I am here.
This is the main thing I struggle with, So okay,
school less.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It's called no. You know what I'm saying. If you
don't pick it up, it will not mess with you. Wow,
only going to mess with you if you pick it up.
If you pick it up, you won't get high. The
only way you're going to get high is to pick
it up. So in order the way not to get high,
you don't pick it up. You got to say no,
(17:38):
got to say no to it. You know what I'm saying.
It's a one day at a time process. I don't
know nobody that get two days at a time. If
you do, you let me know, and that's where I
want to go. You know what I'm saying. But this
well that I live in Yo, we only get one
day at a time. Even if you got to do
it twenty four hours at a time, if that's what
(17:59):
it takes, and try to do that for as many
twenty four hours, as many days as you can in
a row, until it all adds up to a nice
period of time. Of you saying no, and you can
do it. You can say no for the rest of
your life if you want. Can't Nobody put a gun
(18:20):
to your head and make you say yeah. You know
what I'm saying. So the best thing is y'all just
let me live and try to work it out. That's
one of the main things, you know. You know, you
say no to it, you don't have to pick it
up today, and you don't have to get hide today.
You know. That's that's how I live a lot of
my days. You know what I'm saying. You know, I
(18:40):
didn't get hired, I didn't get hid to day, which
was great, and I don't plan on getting high tomorrow,
you know what I'm saying. But once you're a drug addict,
you'll be that for the rest of your life. I'm
an alcoholic, you'll be that for the rest of your life.
That don't mean you have to use I know me,
(19:05):
I'm gonna be a drug addict for the rest of
my life. I just don't. I just don't. I just
don't have to use it. You know, alcoholic, I drink
for many years of my life. You know what I'm saying.
There's a lot of people that's been cleaned for so long.
Once they touch it, they go right back back into
(19:27):
that cycle again. That's why I say, once a drug
addict is always a drug addict. Once an alcoholic is
always an alcoholic, you know, and that's going to be
for life.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I'm a doctor, and so I think about just the brain,
the nerve pathways in your brain.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
They are there.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So it's kind of like you grew up. I grew
up in Indianapolis, Indiana. I cannot go back to Indianapolis
for ten years, but when I go back to Indianapolis,
I can drive from the airport to my house because
that path pathway is burned in my brain, right, And
so like that's what you're saying, That pathway is burned
(20:06):
in your brain.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
And I loved when you said the one word is no.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I think it goes even beyond just using drugs. So
you were saying, no, I'm not going to use today.
But I also think it's like no to people who
are not good for you, No to the bar, No
to people who make you feel bad about being in recovery,
No to stress that's wearing you down, you know, right,
(20:32):
Like all the ways we can say no. That then
make it easier to say no to the drug.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Also, you can't be around the people that used to
get you dirty and that used to get you fucked up,
or people that you know used to get your shit
from your drugs from to stay dirty, you know, you
got to change your people, you know what I'm saying.
Changing your people, changing the places that you be, changing
the things that you do, helps you stay clean. And
(21:03):
if you don't change those things, then it's gonna be
a very hard fight for you to stay clean. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's like I'm not gonna eat mac and cheese, but
I'm gonna go to the lady that I always bought
my mac and cheese from, but I'm gonna get sweet
potatoes this time.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Like, no, I'm gonna buy mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I ain't gonna lie, but you know,
you can say no to your mac and cheese. Just
passed it over the flame. I'm trying to gaze some weight, girl.
It's really it's really the same. It's really the same
(21:45):
scenario though it is it's real pattern.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Is a pattern.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, but these drugs, these drugs obviously have more pull
than mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But like a a whole lot more pull when I
go to schools and I talk about drugs and everything,
you know, tell a lot of the kids. You know,
one of the worst mistakes that I could ever make
in life is experimenting with drugs. You know what I'm saying.
(22:16):
But I'm glad that I did and I got to
make it through that. So now that way I can
be able to tell what it'll make you feel like
if you do this or if you do that, and
I can be able to tell you what type of
direction that it will take your life into. You know
what I'm saying, which is into a brick wall.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You know what I'm saying in the hall nine. I mean,
I can't tell you what it feels like if I
haven't experienced it. Experience is the best.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Teacher, you know, if not the teacher you want these
kids to have.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
As it relates to this anyway, right, So I wouldn't
have been able to know all that I know if
I didn't experience it. But I'm glad that God let
me be able to learn about it so that way
I could be able to teach and tell about it.
Don't make the same mistake that I made. Yeah, you
know because it's it's a detrimental mistake, and hey, some
(23:17):
people can make it out of it, some people can't.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, this is making me think about two things. So
I'm going to try to hold on to both of
these ideas. One I mentioned to you earlier my two
boys nineteen and seventeen. So I have a lot of
addiction on both sides of my family. Cocaine, heroine, alcohol, marijuana, cigarettes,
(23:44):
and like really severe addiction.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
That really let me talk to them, bring me to
let me talk to yeah, give them to me.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Well, but this is what I told my kids.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Listen, just like any other chronic condition, part of your
risk for developing that addiction is coded in your DNA.
We pass it down generation to generation. So I told
my boys, listen, your friends might be able to do
a line of cocaine in the bathroom at the party
when you get to college. But let me tell you
(24:15):
what a line of cocaine turns into an our family, right, Like,
let me tell you about your risk to your point flave,
so that maybe you make the decision not to do
that line of cocaine because you have sight through other
people's experience in our family, what that can turn into
right for you. And so that seems like part of
(24:36):
what you're doing for the kids when you go to
school to talk to them.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah. Yeah, And when I do that, I build off
really off of my own experiences. You know, you can
tell someone what it's going to make you feel like
if you haven't done it, you know what I'm saying.
Only way you're going to know what it feels like
is if you do it. You know what I'm saying.
(25:01):
So I'm coming. Well, I tell when I teach, I
teach you off actual experience. It's not what I heard,
Oh I heard it makes you feel like this, Oh
I heard, it makes you feel like that. I mean,
we all hear all of those things, you know what
I'm saying, but we still never know until we actually
go through the experience.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And then we talk about the experience how it makes
you feel like, sure, it's good, but then you also
talk about the experience of eventually how it makes.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
You feel Yeah, yes, definitely. And you know, I learned
a saying I'm listening. That's this saying off to you,
And I think you can pass this saying off too,
even members of your family.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I'm ready, don't try it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
You might like it. Facts you don't want to like it.
You don't want to like it because that will definitely
destroy your life if you end up liking it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yep, I'm actually gonna I'm being dead serious, text this
to my kids and say, look, Uncle Flave, now.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You call me uncle Flave. There you go.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Uncle told me to tell you, because that's real, and
a lot of people don't. You can actually look, so
you can look at, like I said, your DNA.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
You can look at.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Experiences you've had in childhood and your life, at your stress,
and you can sometimes predict I'm more at risk for
liking this, but a lot of times you can't predict
how quick it grabs you and how deep it drags. You.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Don't try what can destroy your life because you might
end up liking what can destroy your life, and if
you do it in your life will get destroyed, plain
and simple, you know what I'm saying. So that's that's
the thing that you know. I try to teach, you know,
to a lot of people that haven't done it yet.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
So you're talking to kids pretty young, right, Because I think.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I'm talking to kids all ages, man, from elementary school, yes, to.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Colleges because it used to be like taboo to talk
to an elementary kid about drugs. That's when we need
to talk about it. That's before the experimentation happened big time.
You know, you were making me think about flavor the
other thing I was saying, you made me think about
two things is really something I believe in deeply. Also
(27:39):
that I don't have to believe in it deeply because
the medical literature also proves it. But that life meaning
and purpose is one of the most important ingredients for
keeping your feet firmly on your ground that you define
as recovery. And so I feel like our whole conversation,
(28:01):
you're telling me about a big part of your life
meaning and purpose, shining, bringing others up in there shine,
trying to prevent kids from trying it right.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And so what would you say if you look over
your whole sixty.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Five years, when did your life meaning and purpose really
become clear to you? And how did your experience with addiction,
for you know, make that stronger? And how has your
experience with recovery made.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
That stronger or changed it? WHOA, I know now I'm
like being all psychiatrists.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Ain't ain't not wrong with that? You know what I'm saying,
everybody in life needs a little bit a psychiatry. Four
years ago when I just really really just made up
my mind, you know what I'm saying, to stop smoking cigarettes,
(29:00):
stop drinking alcohol. You know what I'm saying. I mean,
my mind has been made up a long time ago
off of the hard drugs. Once I stop smoking cigarettes
and drinking alcohol, it kind of gave me a form
of new life, you know what I'm saying. It kind
of gave me a form of new life. It didn't
(29:21):
give me a new life. The gave me kind of
a form of a new life, you know what I'm saying.
And a rejuvenated feeling. This feeling that I have it
feels so good right now. I want everybody to feel
is good, even the ones that's still using. I want
(29:45):
them to be able to feel is good. And the
only whether they're going to be able to do that
they gotta have. They're gonna have to get, you know,
get on my wavelength. They're gonna have to get on
my level. They're gonna have to stop doing what they've
been doing. You know what I'm saying. In the whole
nine it wasn't real easy for me. But it wasn't hard.
You know, when you got your mind made up to
(30:07):
do something, you're going to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
The hard part is getting to that point, right, Yeah, the.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Hard part is getting to that point, you know what
I'm saying, and then staying.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
On it, because there will be a lot, there will
be a lot that tries to and can knock you
off that point. Coming back to what we were saying earlier,
and my thing is this, If.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
You do get knocked off point, you know what God said,
it's okay today. You could always get back on point
and keep yourself there.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
You know. So just because you got knocked off a point,
got knocked off point for a second, that don't make
you the scum of the earth. That means that you're trying.
You know, hey, sometimes in order to be successful, you
have to fail first. There's ever a time the where
I relapse or whatever. I'm not going to feel like
(31:05):
I'm the scum of the earth. I feel like, Okay,
I need to work harder and try hard.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, something needs to change right so I can.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Get it for the rest of my life. I'm going
for as long as I can. That's all I'm not
going to say. I'm going to do this for the
rest of my life because I can't predict my life.
I only could plan it. But my plan is to
try to stay like this for as long as I can.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I love.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
That's what you said earlier.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You said, I didn't get high today, and I don't
plan to get high tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I don't. I really don't. And it's right something beautiful.
It's right there in my face, yeah, avery single day,
you know, And mainly when it comes down to friends
and family members, it's right there in your face with
with your friend and the family members. I never ever
(32:02):
disclude them. I just try to disclude what they do,
and I try to disclude it out of my life
because can't nobody make your decisions for you. But you
if you decided that you wanted to get weak and
be like, fuck it, because because because people do get
a case of the fuckets, you know, fuck it, let
(32:26):
me do this, fuck it, man, let me do that.
Oh fuck it. You know people do. People do get
a bad case of the fuckets, man. I mean every
human has them, every human. You know what I'm saying.
In the whole nine you just gotta not let those
(32:47):
fuckings control your life. You can say fuck it by
saying no, fuck it, Nope, I'm not doing it. Fuck it. Nah,
I'm not drinking that fuck that you know? Nah, fuck that,
I'm not I'm not sniffing that ship you crazy? Fuck no?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, I oh no, yeah, no, I'm.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Not funk that. I'm not fucking. I'm not drinking. Give me,
give me, give me some give me. Just give me
my orange, my pineapple juice with a swash berry and
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
This is Mike.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So in an addiction treatment, we actually treat teach people
refusal skills, so how to say no when you find
yourself in a situation.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
But you just gave my favorite lesson on refusal that
I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Okay, this is the flame lesson on refusals on refusal skills.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
That was incredible. That's right.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
If you want to live longer, you got to make
yourself stronger.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I like that. I like it. Ok to you. I
just taught myself something.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
It's another one. It's another leg.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I'm putting that shit on shirt.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Okay, and then be like and then send me one.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
If you want to live longer, you gotta get That's it.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
It's true in literally every way, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually,
in every way. Okay, listen, time flies because it's too
much fun talking to you. But this is the same
question that I ask everybody before we get off of
the show. The name of the book is unaddiction. Made
(34:31):
this word up an addiction, And what we were thinking
was what do we need to unlearn about addiction that
we think we know but it's killing people because we're
wrong about it.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
What do we need to undo?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Like stigma? Because stigma is killing people? So what stigma
do we need to undo? And the last one is
what conversations do we need to uncover? Like this conversation
that we're having here, So Flave, if you wanted to
leave our listeners with one thing to unlearn or one
thing to undo, or one conversation to uncover, what would
(35:13):
you say.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Dropping a jewel on you? Okay, I'm ready and and
this is this is God's law. I didn't make make
up what I'm about to say. This God's laws. God
God has laws. You know what I'm saying. Like what
goes around comes around in order to you. If you
(35:35):
want to be treated a certain way, you got to
treat people a certain way first all that you know karma,
you know that's God's laws, you know what I'm saying.
So the reason why it's going to be kind of
difficult to answer that last question that you just said
(35:56):
is because number one, people ask me or damn flave,
if you could do it different, if you could do
it over and do it different, what would you do different?
What would you do over? And you know what, I
tell them? Nothing? And the reason why is because if
(36:17):
I didn't do that, then I wouldn't have learned it.
You know what I'm saying. If I didn't do that,
then I would be able to teach about it. You
know what I'm saying. In the whole nine and this
is one thing that God teaches. Once something is done,
it cannot be undone. So once you learn something, it's
(36:44):
impossible for you to unlearn it because it's already it's
already embedded inside that brings cell, you know what I'm saying,
and the whole nine so so so you can't unlearn stuff.
You can't undo stuff once it's already done. Like like
(37:09):
like when you do damage to someone, you can't undo
the damage. You know what I'm saying, when you break
a coffee cup or you chip it, you can't say
you I mean, you can't undo it, even though you
can take that little piece, glue it back in there
(37:30):
and make it look like nothing has ever happened. But
deep down inside know that crack is still there. Be undone.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
That was a beautiful answer. Yeah, So it's not about
trying to unlearn. Maybe it's about trying to learn something new,
and it's not about trying to undo. Maybe it's about
trying to do something different.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
There you go, there you go.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
It's all that lesson in I took that lesson.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, there it is. I ain't gonna lie, but you
learn fast, you learn fast, man burn up. Then they
ain't say you girls are fast teacher.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Flame.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I was gonna say, I don't know what it does
for everybody else, but I know what this shit does
for me, you know, and if it can do it
for me, it can do the same thing for you
and anybody else that wants it. Back in the day,
you know, I dropped out of high school. You know,
I dropped out in the tenth grade. You know what
I'm saying. So you know my wish is to get
(38:41):
my diploma. So I'm gonna go back to high school
and get my diploma, and I'm gonna put it on
television shout out to be one of the main things
on TV that you see coming out of me. You
know what I'm saying. Plus recording new music. I got
some more music getting ready to come out to you guys.
(39:02):
You know me and my partner, Truck D. We got
some things coming. And then also I got a surprise
solo project that I'm working on right now. I think
you guys would be able to grasp and grip on
ask a new D shirt. That's my slogan to put
on my shirt. If you want to live longer, you
got to get stronger. And hopefully what I taught myself today,
(39:26):
I hope y'all learned it too, because this learning lesson
wasn't just for me, it was.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
For all of us saved received.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Thank you so much for tuning in, and if you
like this episode, please check out my book on addiction,
Six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available
at Barnes Andnoble Bookshop, dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,
and wherever books are sold. We want to hear from
you if you identify as black or brown and have
(39:57):
a recovery story to share. Something you I've learned, a
stigma that you've undone, or a conversation that you've had
about addiction. Send us a voicemail at speak pipe dot com,
slash u a pod that's speak pipe dot com slash
u a pod
What does recovery look like when it's not designed for you?
I'm doctor and Zinga Harrison, and in season four of
Unaddictioned podcast, we're featuring black and brown guests sharing their
journeys through the unique barriers to recovery shaped by their identities.
These guests have not only defined recovery on their terms,
(00:22):
but they're also creating pathways and communities that can help
you or a loved one find recovery too.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Okay, so it's just us three and the place to
be and we can rock and from the bottom to
the top.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Ay Ay, Now check.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
This shout if so happens that you take a screenshot
of this right here, uh huh, because each this is
a fly frame, I think, I mean it looks good, right,
I think all three of us just kind of photogenic. Comeo, Okay,
I'm just saying yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think
(00:57):
all three of us is kind of photogenic. You know,
I'm saying, cree shot it is in the trozan. Look,
I don't know about you too, Guys, when it comes
down in my photo, fine dollars for singles, ten dollars
with double ex bulgess. Thank you, appreciate you I have
my money. How you doing this morning? Guys? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean, I said I was not gonna come on
here and be a super fan, but it's just not
possible because listen, I grew up in Indianapolis, Indiana in
the eighties, so I'm born in nineteen seventy six. My
father was commander of the Black Panther Militia in Indianapolis,
n A founder and commander. So when fight the Power
(01:44):
came out and we had activism in rap music, there
was no way I could not grow up being a
super fan.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And I have been a super fan my entire life.
And then I saw you.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I watched all your shows, and then I saw you
at the Olympics with the women's.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Water polo team and I was like, come through flame.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And then I did not even know this whole time,
You're in recovery, which is the whole reason we are
here this morning, and I was just like up twenty
notches from already super fandom.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So thank you. You know what, James made a song
about you, superfan?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Now you know good, Well that's not the words.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So that we know it's super freak. But I turned
it in the super Fan it was it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It's it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Thank you full of love though and everything. You know
what I'm saying. Not only that, but God is good,
you know what I'm saying. You know, when it comes
down to recovery. You know, this is something that I've
been wanting for myself for a long time. Plus my
mom's been wanting this for me for a long time.
You know. My mom passed away about close to baby,
(03:08):
I don't know, nine or ten years ago, something like that,
you know what I'm saying. But you know one thing
that I say. The body is nothing but the shell
that goes in the ground. But we donna die. So
my mom, my mom ain't dead.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
She's still here, That's right.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
You know what I'm saying. It's just her body went
in the ground. That's the shell, you know what I'm saying.
But my mom stays around, she becomes she becomes the
guardian angel. She watches over me, my whole family, my kids, everybody,
no matter how faull apart was spreaded. Yeah, she can
watch us all at one time, you know. So, so
(03:47):
I'm saying, I'm just happy for her crossover and being
that I know that she's here with me by me
getting myself sober. I know, it's just making her real happy,
you know what I mean. So that's what I was
taking you too, you know when I said that, you know,
my mom's passed away, this and that, that and it,
but she's still here. Yeah, and this is something that
(04:10):
you always wanted for me, you know what I'm saying.
So I'm happy that I'm able to be on the
road to give to give her that, but also for
myself too.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You know, I'm sixty five and a lot of my
friends that I came up with, they are not here
to talk about it, you know what I'm saying. And
the thing that really took me for a ride was
when my boy Coolio passed away. My boy Coolio passed away.
You know what I'm saying. I said to myself, up, Yeah,
(04:45):
you better stay this way, buddy, Yeah, because you could
be the next one.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
It's devastating how many trying to be in them numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Man.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know what I'm saying, I'm trying to stick around
to make a difference. I'm trying to stick around and
watch my my grandkids grow up and graduate from school.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So God is good. You know what I'm saying because
He let us wake up today to have another day
of life. You know, I'm saying, word up every day
that we live. God gives us the power to do that.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, so true, It's so true.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
So Flave, will you on this podcast?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So I mentioned that Jen reached out and she was like,
when you're going to write a book? And I was like, never,
And then she was like, and you're going to write
a book. And so the name of the book is
an Addiction six mind changing conversations that could save a life.
And so what we try to do on this podcast
is have conversations that might make someone say I relate
(05:45):
to that and maybe this could be part of my
recovery journey, or maybe I could start my recovery journey,
or maybe that's for me when I thought it wasn't before.
And so can you just share with us your mom
wanted this for you for a long time. When would
you say, from your perspective, your recovery journey started, what
(06:07):
God had started?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
What has it been like?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, let me say it like this, because you know
I've I've been a drug addict for many years of
my life. I've been an alcoholic for many years of
my life, you know what I'm saying. And I've been
through I don't know, maybe for rehabs, you know what
(06:32):
I'm saying in the whole nine. And each time that
I went, I almost got it, but then again, deep
down inside, I guess I wasn't ready, you know what
I'm saying in the whole nine. So it's been an
off and on thing, off and on thing, you know
what I'm saying. I feel that it started when I
(06:53):
said to myself, I'm going to do this. You know,
I'm going to do this to challenge myself, you know. So,
so that's when the day started, when I started challenging myself.
It's been a little road. It's been a little road,
you know what I'm saying in the whole nine. But
God is good, you know what I'm saying. And there
(07:14):
have been people too that that's been on alcohol for
a while. I managed to talk talk them off of it.
So I managed to help a few people out. I
thank God for that power, yeah saying. But still in all,
it's all up to you. You know what I'm saying.
(07:37):
When you're ready, you're going to stop. When you're not ready,
you're not going to stop. You know, and a lot
of people says, well, I couldn't help it. I couldn't stop. Yes,
you could have. You just didn't want to help yourself
to stop. You just didn't want to stop. You can
do whatever you want. Anything in life that you want
(07:57):
to do, you can. You can accomplish that, and you
can achieve that. So even to all of the drug
addicts and alcoholics and the matthe users and all of
that stuff, if they really want it for themselves, deep
down in their heart, they will stop and it would
stay like that. You know, that's if you're ready.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
And what do you think, Because I think there's an
important part of your message that's empowering, right, Like there's
a part of the I can't do it that decreases
people's ability to change their substance use. And then there's
also a part of it that there are external things that,
(08:42):
even when you're ready, make it hard to stay stopped.
Like you said, stopping is one thing. Stay and stops
when life is throwing a whole lot at you can
be another thing. And so if you look back, and
I'll say you've been to rehab four times, which is
amazing because every time the sea gets bigger, right, And
sometimes we look at it like, oh, you went back
(09:04):
four times, like somehow that's a failure. No, every time
the sea got bigger, every time the power got stronger.
If you look at either people, places, things, situations that
kind of helped make you stronger in that ability to
(09:24):
stay stopped, what would some of those things be.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, first of all, one of the main things is
is to change change the places where you be. Yet,
you know what I'm saying. You can't be around places
that had you sick, you know, and expect to be
all right. It don't work like that, you know what
(09:48):
I'm saying. I mean, like I said, you got to
be ready and deep down in your in your heart ready,
you know what I'm saying, in the whole nine.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And it can be hard not to go to those
places when those places are really part of your life.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time, big time, you know what
I'm saying. Like like bars, for instance, which was always
a big part of my life. It took me a
little minute before I can really go back in a bar. Today.
I could get my friends drunk and I don't have
to drink.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And your two years you're two years in from not drinking.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, boy, I say, I say, I say about three.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Okay, three, that's what's up.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I think alcohol and cigarettes are two of the hardest
drugs to stop, just because our culture is so in love.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
With them, no doubt. Hey I was, I'm sorry, but
I was just being reminded, you know, saying that I'm
going on four.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Years okay, four, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I like it, going on four going on four yeah, yeah,
a little journey. It's been a little journey. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And fifteen, did I get it right? Fifteen from cocaine.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yes, fifteen, yeah, about fifteen, fifteen to sixteen years now
from the hard hard drugs cocaine crack. Yeah, you know,
cause that was really my drug of choice, coke, crack
and alcohol. What I'm saying, you know, I mean today today,
I still smoke my weed. So I'm not going to
say I'm squeaky clean. But I've been doing this stuff
(11:26):
all my life, you know what I'm saying. So the
main things that would really take me under, I'm glad
that I stopped.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yes, you know what that is flave the like official
term for that, we call it harm reduction. And I
think there's something really I'm just gonna say it dangerous
about requiring people to be squeaky clean, because it would
be like, it doesn't matter that you stopped, like you said,
(11:57):
the things that were really killing me cocaine, cocaine, alcohol,
and they would be like, you're not sober because you're
smoking marijuana. It's like, I'm more likely to be alive
tomorrow not doing cocaine, not drinking alcohol.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And so I want somebody to hear that Flave said,
I'm not squeaky clean, and you know I buck against
this word clean anyway, because you are clean even when
you're using drugs. Listen, you are not dirty. You are clean,
but you don't have to be squeaky like. We want
you to be alive.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So if you can put down one thing, put.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Down one thing, hey, listen, the more you can put
down the merria and the better your life would be.
And I know that there's a lot of people that's
been doing it so long and they think that they
can't conquer putting it down, but they can't because I'm
just one of many that was able to do it.
(12:57):
But there are many that was able to do it
and they're still doing it even like twenty five thirty years.
A matter of fact, I was talking to someone last night.
I went to the New York Liberty game last night,
and I was speaking to somebody that's going on thirty two.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yes, is that incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
I don't care what nobody's saying, but my little four
years is just as big as they're thirty.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Two for real, period.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Dot.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I'm just I'm just grateful for the strength that I
have to be able to just keep it going. Man, Yeah,
keep it going and try to encourage others that's not
doing too well, that's not doing good.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I think that's a huge part of it, too, Flave,
which is why I was so super excited for you
to come on, because your voice has a really far reach,
and I feel like we're just starting to get to
this place where we can open put loving arms around
people that are struggling with drugs. Like it used to
(14:05):
be all about judgment and keep it a secret and
don't talk about that. And now Flaith can come out
and be like I got four plus fifteen. I'm trying
to get to this thirty two. Like this person that
I met last night, I think that will save people's lives.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And you know, I say. The more that we speak
about it, the stronger it would make us, you know
what I'm saying. So it's very important too, man that
I mean you know me, I don't. I don't really.
I haven't been to a meeting in a minute. This
is my meeting, Yes, this is my meeting right here.
You know what I'm saying. The reason why I haven't
(14:43):
been to a meeting in a minute is because I've
been doing so much moving around and I've just been
going and going and going and going and going and
going and going and going and going. Is that my
excuse not to make a meeting. No, that's not my excuse.
It's just that I haven't made any You know that
I haven't made any meetings. But that light is too bright.
(15:04):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It did look like you just the light shone down
from heaven all of a sudden.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Hey, that was God right there, Like God, I know
you want to I know you want to bless me
with a shine, but at least let me get to
see while I'm why why you're making me shine? Don't
blind me. Don't blind me with my own shine? Right,
God is just blinding me with my own shine? You know?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh, my God, that's actually what I said when I
found out that you said, yes, you were gonna come on.
That has been my experience of you my whole life
is that you shine on other people, and you actually
also lift other people up to shine. That's what my
concept of you has been.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Thank you, Thank you, And honestly, that's what my concept
of my life has kind of been. And when I
do that, I look for nothing in return. It just
comes off from the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
So I have this idea that I call the magic
formula flave. And the magic formula is once you decide
for you what recovery is, what is the formula that
you're working that helps to keep your feet planted in recovery?
And so you mentioned one, you were like, this is
my meeting today. So like helping other people is part
(16:28):
of your magic formula, it sounds like actual meetings are
part of your magic formula when the timing is right
for that.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
What are other things that you do to help.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Keep your feet firmly on the ground that you have
defined as recovery for yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well, the answer to that is the main thing, the
main thing that all of us need to practice and
to keep saying. It's a one word answer. No.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Oh okay, I thought you were gonna say a different word.
You just took me to church because I am here.
This is the main thing I struggle with, So okay,
school less.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
It's called no. You know what I'm saying. If you
don't pick it up, it will not mess with you. Wow,
only going to mess with you if you pick it up.
If you pick it up, you won't get high. The
only way you're going to get high is to pick
it up. So in order the way not to get high,
you don't pick it up. You got to say no,
(17:38):
got to say no to it. You know what I'm saying.
It's a one day at a time process. I don't
know nobody that get two days at a time. If
you do, you let me know, and that's where I
want to go. You know what I'm saying. But this
well that I live in Yo, we only get one
day at a time. Even if you got to do
it twenty four hours at a time, if that's what
(17:59):
it takes, and try to do that for as many
twenty four hours, as many days as you can in
a row, until it all adds up to a nice
period of time. Of you saying no, and you can
do it. You can say no for the rest of
your life if you want. Can't Nobody put a gun
(18:20):
to your head and make you say yeah. You know
what I'm saying. So the best thing is y'all just
let me live and try to work it out. That's
one of the main things, you know. You know, you
say no to it, you don't have to pick it
up today, and you don't have to get hide today.
You know. That's that's how I live a lot of
my days. You know what I'm saying. You know, I
(18:40):
didn't get hired, I didn't get hid to day, which
was great, and I don't plan on getting high tomorrow,
you know what I'm saying. But once you're a drug addict,
you'll be that for the rest of your life. I'm
an alcoholic, you'll be that for the rest of your life.
That don't mean you have to use I know me,
(19:05):
I'm gonna be a drug addict for the rest of
my life. I just don't. I just don't. I just
don't have to use it. You know, alcoholic, I drink
for many years of my life. You know what I'm saying.
There's a lot of people that's been cleaned for so long.
Once they touch it, they go right back back into
(19:27):
that cycle again. That's why I say, once a drug
addict is always a drug addict. Once an alcoholic is
always an alcoholic, you know, and that's going to be
for life.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I'm a doctor, and so I think about just the brain,
the nerve pathways in your brain.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
They are there.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So it's kind of like you grew up. I grew
up in Indianapolis, Indiana. I cannot go back to Indianapolis
for ten years, but when I go back to Indianapolis,
I can drive from the airport to my house because
that path pathway is burned in my brain, right, And
so like that's what you're saying, That pathway is burned
(20:06):
in your brain.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
And I loved when you said the one word is no.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I think it goes even beyond just using drugs. So
you were saying, no, I'm not going to use today.
But I also think it's like no to people who
are not good for you, No to the bar, No
to people who make you feel bad about being in recovery,
No to stress that's wearing you down, you know, right,
(20:32):
Like all the ways we can say no. That then
make it easier to say no to the drug.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Also, you can't be around the people that used to
get you dirty and that used to get you fucked up,
or people that you know used to get your shit
from your drugs from to stay dirty, you know, you
got to change your people, you know what I'm saying.
Changing your people, changing the places that you be, changing
the things that you do, helps you stay clean. And
(21:03):
if you don't change those things, then it's gonna be
a very hard fight for you to stay clean. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's like I'm not gonna eat mac and cheese, but
I'm gonna go to the lady that I always bought
my mac and cheese from, but I'm gonna get sweet
potatoes this time.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Like, no, I'm gonna buy mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I ain't gonna lie, but you know,
you can say no to your mac and cheese. Just
passed it over the flame. I'm trying to gaze some weight, girl.
It's really it's really the same. It's really the same
(21:45):
scenario though it is it's real pattern.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Is a pattern.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, but these drugs, these drugs obviously have more pull
than mac and cheese.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
But like a a whole lot more pull when I
go to schools and I talk about drugs and everything,
you know, tell a lot of the kids. You know,
one of the worst mistakes that I could ever make
in life is experimenting with drugs. You know what I'm saying.
(22:16):
But I'm glad that I did and I got to
make it through that. So now that way I can
be able to tell what it'll make you feel like
if you do this or if you do that, and
I can be able to tell you what type of
direction that it will take your life into. You know
what I'm saying, which is into a brick wall.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You know what I'm saying in the hall nine. I mean,
I can't tell you what it feels like if I
haven't experienced it. Experience is the best.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Teacher, you know, if not the teacher you want these
kids to have.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
As it relates to this anyway, right, So I wouldn't
have been able to know all that I know if
I didn't experience it. But I'm glad that God let
me be able to learn about it so that way
I could be able to teach and tell about it.
Don't make the same mistake that I made. Yeah, you
know because it's it's a detrimental mistake, and hey, some
(23:17):
people can make it out of it, some people can't.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, this is making me think about two things. So
I'm going to try to hold on to both of
these ideas. One I mentioned to you earlier my two
boys nineteen and seventeen. So I have a lot of
addiction on both sides of my family. Cocaine, heroine, alcohol, marijuana, cigarettes,
(23:44):
and like really severe addiction.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
That really let me talk to them, bring me to
let me talk to yeah, give them to me.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Well, but this is what I told my kids.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Listen, just like any other chronic condition, part of your
risk for developing that addiction is coded in your DNA.
We pass it down generation to generation. So I told
my boys, listen, your friends might be able to do
a line of cocaine in the bathroom at the party
when you get to college. But let me tell you
(24:15):
what a line of cocaine turns into an our family, right, Like,
let me tell you about your risk to your point flave,
so that maybe you make the decision not to do
that line of cocaine because you have sight through other
people's experience in our family, what that can turn into
right for you. And so that seems like part of
(24:36):
what you're doing for the kids when you go to
school to talk to them.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah. Yeah, And when I do that, I build off
really off of my own experiences. You know, you can
tell someone what it's going to make you feel like
if you haven't done it, you know what I'm saying.
Only way you're going to know what it feels like
is if you do it. You know what I'm saying.
(25:01):
So I'm coming. Well, I tell when I teach, I
teach you off actual experience. It's not what I heard,
Oh I heard it makes you feel like this, Oh
I heard, it makes you feel like that. I mean,
we all hear all of those things, you know what
I'm saying, but we still never know until we actually
go through the experience.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And then we talk about the experience how it makes
you feel like, sure, it's good, but then you also
talk about the experience of eventually how it makes.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
You feel Yeah, yes, definitely. And you know, I learned
a saying I'm listening. That's this saying off to you,
And I think you can pass this saying off too,
even members of your family.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I'm ready, don't try it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
You might like it. Facts you don't want to like it.
You don't want to like it because that will definitely
destroy your life if you end up liking it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yep, I'm actually gonna I'm being dead serious, text this
to my kids and say, look, Uncle Flave, now.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You call me uncle Flave. There you go.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Uncle told me to tell you, because that's real, and
a lot of people don't. You can actually look, so
you can look at, like I said, your DNA.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
You can look at.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Experiences you've had in childhood and your life, at your stress,
and you can sometimes predict I'm more at risk for
liking this, but a lot of times you can't predict
how quick it grabs you and how deep it drags. You.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Don't try what can destroy your life because you might
end up liking what can destroy your life, and if
you do it in your life will get destroyed, plain
and simple, you know what I'm saying. So that's that's
the thing that you know. I try to teach, you know,
to a lot of people that haven't done it yet.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
So you're talking to kids pretty young, right, Because I think.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I'm talking to kids all ages, man, from elementary school, yes, to.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Colleges because it used to be like taboo to talk
to an elementary kid about drugs. That's when we need
to talk about it. That's before the experimentation happened big time.
You know, you were making me think about flavor the
other thing I was saying, you made me think about
two things is really something I believe in deeply. Also
(27:39):
that I don't have to believe in it deeply because
the medical literature also proves it. But that life meaning
and purpose is one of the most important ingredients for
keeping your feet firmly on your ground that you define
as recovery. And so I feel like our whole conversation,
(28:01):
you're telling me about a big part of your life
meaning and purpose, shining, bringing others up in there shine,
trying to prevent kids from trying it right.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And so what would you say if you look over
your whole sixty.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Five years, when did your life meaning and purpose really
become clear to you? And how did your experience with addiction,
for you know, make that stronger? And how has your
experience with recovery made.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
That stronger or changed it? WHOA, I know now I'm
like being all psychiatrists.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Ain't ain't not wrong with that? You know what I'm saying,
everybody in life needs a little bit a psychiatry. Four
years ago when I just really really just made up
my mind, you know what I'm saying, to stop smoking cigarettes,
(29:00):
stop drinking alcohol. You know what I'm saying. I mean,
my mind has been made up a long time ago
off of the hard drugs. Once I stop smoking cigarettes
and drinking alcohol, it kind of gave me a form
of new life, you know what I'm saying. It kind
of gave me a form of new life. It didn't
(29:21):
give me a new life. The gave me kind of
a form of a new life, you know what I'm saying.
And a rejuvenated feeling. This feeling that I have it
feels so good right now. I want everybody to feel
is good, even the ones that's still using. I want
(29:45):
them to be able to feel is good. And the
only whether they're going to be able to do that
they gotta have. They're gonna have to get, you know,
get on my wavelength. They're gonna have to get on
my level. They're gonna have to stop doing what they've
been doing. You know what I'm saying. In the whole
nine it wasn't real easy for me. But it wasn't hard.
You know, when you got your mind made up to
(30:07):
do something, you're going to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
The hard part is getting to that point, right, Yeah, the.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Hard part is getting to that point, you know what
I'm saying, and then staying.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
On it, because there will be a lot, there will
be a lot that tries to and can knock you
off that point. Coming back to what we were saying earlier,
and my thing is this, If.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
You do get knocked off point, you know what God said,
it's okay today. You could always get back on point
and keep yourself there.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
You know. So just because you got knocked off a point,
got knocked off point for a second, that don't make
you the scum of the earth. That means that you're trying.
You know, hey, sometimes in order to be successful, you
have to fail first. There's ever a time the where
I relapse or whatever. I'm not going to feel like
(31:05):
I'm the scum of the earth. I feel like, Okay,
I need to work harder and try hard.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, something needs to change right so I can.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Get it for the rest of my life. I'm going
for as long as I can. That's all I'm not
going to say. I'm going to do this for the
rest of my life because I can't predict my life.
I only could plan it. But my plan is to
try to stay like this for as long as I can.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I love.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
That's what you said earlier.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You said, I didn't get high today, and I don't
plan to get high tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
I don't. I really don't. And it's right something beautiful.
It's right there in my face, yeah, avery single day,
you know, And mainly when it comes down to friends
and family members, it's right there in your face with
with your friend and the family members. I never ever
(32:02):
disclude them. I just try to disclude what they do,
and I try to disclude it out of my life
because can't nobody make your decisions for you. But you
if you decided that you wanted to get weak and
be like, fuck it, because because because people do get
a case of the fuckets, you know, fuck it, let
(32:26):
me do this, fuck it, man, let me do that.
Oh fuck it. You know people do. People do get
a bad case of the fuckets, man. I mean every
human has them, every human. You know what I'm saying.
In the whole nine you just gotta not let those
(32:47):
fuckings control your life. You can say fuck it by
saying no, fuck it, Nope, I'm not doing it. Fuck it. Nah,
I'm not drinking that fuck that you know? Nah, fuck that,
I'm not I'm not sniffing that ship you crazy? Fuck no?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, I oh no, yeah, no, I'm.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Not funk that. I'm not fucking. I'm not drinking. Give me,
give me, give me some give me. Just give me
my orange, my pineapple juice with a swash berry and
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
This is Mike.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So in an addiction treatment, we actually treat teach people
refusal skills, so how to say no when you find
yourself in a situation.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
But you just gave my favorite lesson on refusal that
I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Okay, this is the flame lesson on refusals on refusal skills.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
That was incredible. That's right.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
If you want to live longer, you got to make
yourself stronger.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I like that. I like it. Ok to you. I
just taught myself something.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
It's another one. It's another leg.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I'm putting that shit on shirt.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Okay, and then be like and then send me one.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
If you want to live longer, you gotta get That's it.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
It's true in literally every way, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually,
in every way. Okay, listen, time flies because it's too
much fun talking to you. But this is the same
question that I ask everybody before we get off of
the show. The name of the book is unaddiction. Made
(34:31):
this word up an addiction, And what we were thinking
was what do we need to unlearn about addiction that
we think we know but it's killing people because we're
wrong about it.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
What do we need to undo?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Like stigma? Because stigma is killing people? So what stigma
do we need to undo? And the last one is
what conversations do we need to uncover? Like this conversation
that we're having here, So Flave, if you wanted to
leave our listeners with one thing to unlearn or one
thing to undo, or one conversation to uncover, what would
(35:13):
you say.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Dropping a jewel on you? Okay, I'm ready and and
this is this is God's law. I didn't make make
up what I'm about to say. This God's laws. God
God has laws. You know what I'm saying. Like what
goes around comes around in order to you. If you
(35:35):
want to be treated a certain way, you got to
treat people a certain way first all that you know karma,
you know that's God's laws, you know what I'm saying.
So the reason why it's going to be kind of
difficult to answer that last question that you just said
(35:56):
is because number one, people ask me or damn flave,
if you could do it different, if you could do
it over and do it different, what would you do different?
What would you do over? And you know what, I
tell them? Nothing? And the reason why is because if
(36:17):
I didn't do that, then I wouldn't have learned it.
You know what I'm saying. If I didn't do that,
then I would be able to teach about it. You
know what I'm saying. In the whole nine and this
is one thing that God teaches. Once something is done,
it cannot be undone. So once you learn something, it's
(36:44):
impossible for you to unlearn it because it's already it's
already embedded inside that brings cell, you know what I'm saying,
and the whole nine so so so you can't unlearn stuff.
You can't undo stuff once it's already done. Like like
(37:09):
like when you do damage to someone, you can't undo
the damage. You know what I'm saying, when you break
a coffee cup or you chip it, you can't say
you I mean, you can't undo it, even though you
can take that little piece, glue it back in there
(37:30):
and make it look like nothing has ever happened. But
deep down inside know that crack is still there. Be undone.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
That was a beautiful answer. Yeah, So it's not about
trying to unlearn. Maybe it's about trying to learn something new,
and it's not about trying to undo. Maybe it's about
trying to do something different.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
There you go, there you go.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
It's all that lesson in I took that lesson.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, there it is. I ain't gonna lie, but you
learn fast, you learn fast, man burn up. Then they
ain't say you girls are fast teacher.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Flame.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I was gonna say, I don't know what it does
for everybody else, but I know what this shit does
for me, you know, and if it can do it
for me, it can do the same thing for you
and anybody else that wants it. Back in the day,
you know, I dropped out of high school. You know,
I dropped out in the tenth grade. You know what
I'm saying. So you know my wish is to get
(38:41):
my diploma. So I'm gonna go back to high school
and get my diploma, and I'm gonna put it on
television shout out to be one of the main things
on TV that you see coming out of me. You
know what I'm saying. Plus recording new music. I got
some more music getting ready to come out to you guys.
(39:02):
You know me and my partner, Truck D. We got
some things coming. And then also I got a surprise
solo project that I'm working on right now. I think
you guys would be able to grasp and grip on
ask a new D shirt. That's my slogan to put
on my shirt. If you want to live longer, you
got to get stronger. And hopefully what I taught myself today,
(39:26):
I hope y'all learned it too, because this learning lesson
wasn't just for me, it was.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
For all of us saved received.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Thank you so much for tuning in, and if you
like this episode, please check out my book on addiction,
Six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available
at Barnes Andnoble Bookshop, dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon,
and wherever books are sold. We want to hear from
you if you identify as black or brown and have
(39:57):
a recovery story to share. Something you I've learned, a
stigma that you've undone, or a conversation that you've had
about addiction. Send us a voicemail at speak pipe dot com,
slash u a pod that's speak pipe dot com slash
u a pod
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