November 24, 2025 • 32 mins
After a string of serious episodes, we’re taking a movie break with something light… kind of. The House of Yes is a 1997 pitch-black Sundance comedy-turned-cult classic starring a who’s who of late-90s stars including Parker Posey, Freddie Prinze Jr, Tori Spelling, and Rachel Leigh Cook. We get into the movie’s iconic poster featuring Parker Posey in Jackie O’s pink Chanel suit, Tori Spelling’s acting chops, the role of the Kennedy assassination in pop culture, and why Entertainment Weekly called the film “a knowingly overripe… kitsch melodrama that dares to make incest sexy.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm George Severis and I'm Julia Clair, and this is
United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination
with the Kennedy Dynasty. Every week we go into one
aspect of the Kennedy story, and today, after two pretty
serious episodes, we thought it might be good to give
everyone a break with something light, which is why we
are talking about the nineteen ninety seven cult classic dark
(00:28):
comedy The House of Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
The film is starring a who's who of late nineties
young stars, including Parker Posey, Freddy Prince, Junior, Tory Spelling,
and even a bizarre cameo from Rachel Lee Cook.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Shout out to Rachel Lee Cook, we love you on
this podcast, We love You. It is directed by Mark Waters, who,
if you don't recognize the name, he went on to
direct such true classics of our youth as Mean Girls
and Freaky Friday, but this was his directorial debut. So
this was a classic late nineties sun dance movie. It
is a pitch black comedy about two twins with a
(01:03):
dark secret.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Have you ever seen the film? You probably won't be
surprised to learn that it was a box office bomb
and got mixed reviews, but Parker Posey won a Special
Recognition for Acting Award at Sundance. Unfortunately, Tory Spelling did
receive a Razzie nomination for her performance.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And listen, I obviously do write to the Risies every
year trying to contest their decision, but they haven't gotten
back to me yet. I will say she got that
Rosie nomination despite the fact that her father reportedly financed
the whole film. So nepotism can only get you so far,
which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about
the Kennedy shout out to Jack Shlasberg's congressional run. Yes, So,
(01:42):
a review in Entertainment Weekly that we found says, the
House of Yes is knowingly overripe, a kitch melodrama that
dares to make incest sexy. And I just want to
say it is about.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
It's about damn time.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's about time an American film director to make incest sexy.
So that's the House of Yes. And before we get
into it, you might be wondering hearing us gab about
this Parker Posey film. We're talking Tory spellings, Rozzie, We're
talking incest, We're talking twins. You might be wondering what
does any of this have to do with the Kennedys.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, we'll tell you. The film opens and closes with
real archival footage of Jacqueline Kennedy giving her tour at
the White House, and it's interspliced with a young Rachel
Lee Cook spinning around in the very famous pink pillbox
hat Chanelle suit, and you're like, where is this going?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Right, So archival footage of Jackiet I have to say
at this point, having done this podcast for so many months,
I've seen that footage so many times, and each time
I'm again blown away by the sheer physics of her hair. Yes,
it really looks like a plastic paper mache hat. I
would say that was placed on top overhead, and that's.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Why the ozone layer became so big. That's right, every
woman in America. Their hair didn't move.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah. No, people say the Kennedys are so influential. They're
also the cause of climate change, that's right, which RFK
then tried to stop, but he got distracted by vaccine.
And so there are pluses and minuses. There are highs
and lows of this family.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's a who's who of major world problems, that's right,
exactly incest climate change.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, climate change is in fact made literal in the
film because it takes place during this big storm, a hurricane.
So the movie opens with archival footage of Jackie giving
the famous White House tour and a young Rachel Lee
Cook who plays in the film, a young Parker Posey.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And the character's name is Jackie Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And that is what everyone calls her, and we learn
pretty early on that it's because she went to a party.
What kind of party did she go to?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And IDEs of March party, Yes, thank you, I mean
I think it's just our party on March fourteen.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Got it, okay? And so she went to an IDEs
of March party dressed as Jackie O specifically post assassination
aka she had like blood and brains on her, which
I just want to quickly shout out, you know my
dear friend who I've never met, Julia Fox, who had
that exact same costume for this year as Halloween.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Right, and Julia, your email is out from the pod.
We want you to come on.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I would absolutely you know, Julia Fox has actually been
mentioned before on this podcast about Greg Gardens, the documentary
and Julia Fox actually introduced the fiftieth anniversary screening of
Greg Gardens and talked about how influential it was to
her incredible comedic sensibility. So I think she is just
like a big fan of the Kennedys more Broccoli, so
she's always welcome on the pod. But yeah, So basically,
(04:42):
Jackie O went to this IDEs of March party as
a teen, just as actual Jackie O in this pink
chanel suit. And she clearly has some attachment to the
JACKIEO iconography and the jfk assassination iconography that will be
export further in the film, right.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And it's I clear very early in the film that
Jackie O the character is deeply mentally ill and is
on various pills and lives in this grand mansion in
Virginia with her cold and distant mother and her weird
younger brother, played expertly by Freddy Prince Junior.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That's straight and one of his first roles. One of
the things that the Wikipedia says, you know, not to
out myself as having done Wikipedia research, is that Freddy
Prince Junior shot in quick succession this film and I
know what you did last summer.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And then I know what you did last summer was
of course his big breakout, so then his rising fame.
You know, I was about to say help this movie,
but in fact it didn't because this movie ended up
bombing in the box office.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But yeah, you know, if you've seen this movie, you
gotta wonder why why would this movie play?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But I know why did a dark comedy about incest
and twin sest starring a bunch of up and coming
Hollywood stars bomb at the box despite everyone's best efforts.
I have to say this is a great Perker Posy performance,
which we will get in incredible So, yes, mental illness
in this film is treated in the way only a
(06:08):
nineteen ninety seven comedy it can treat it.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I would call it a running gag.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yes, yes, yes, the famous running gag of this Woman's
on pills. It was a real classic in the late nineties.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And this one's just a little extra crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes. The undercurrent of the movie, of course, is that
all women are mentally ill. Jackie O, play by Perker Posey,
her brother played by Freddy Prince Junior, and their mother
are waiting for Jackie O's twin brother. There's three kids
in the family to come visit for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, And if you've heard our descriptions so far, I
know what you're thinking. A classic Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Film is this the family Stone? Is this?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Pieces of April, plainstrants and automobiles come.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
This is a fun one to watch with the whole family,
maybe your parents. You have your Thanksgiving leftovers, you have
your stuffing in turkey sandwich or saying God, I'm in
the mood for something cozy.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And it takes place during a storm. There's candle, It's
exactly is cozy.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
No, it is cozy. So then what happens Julia? The
brother arrives.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
The brother arrives and he has a quote unquote friend
in tow and it turns out to be his fiance,
played by Tory Spelling, the.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
One and only Tory Spelling. I said, hello, queen, it
is so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Missed you girl.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So okay, Tory Spelling is playing this like there's a
real kind of Madonna horror thing happening with Tory Spelling
on the one side, and you know Nympho maniac twin
cest enthusiast Parker Posey on the other side. So that's right, Tory,
Tory Spelling is playing this like innocent blonde, you know,
grew up working class and now works at a donut
(07:42):
shop and just wants to get.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Married and lead a middle Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
She's from Pennsylvania, which Pennsylvania in this movie is used
as a slur. You'll say it. It's literally like like
you're from Pennsylvania. Oh sorry, sweetie? Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What's the line that's like, Pennsylvania is a place that's
just in your way when you're trying to get somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah. Well, and then Barker Posey is like, I've never
met anyone who's been from Pennsylvania. So okay. I think
Tory Spelling is doing a passable job here, Julia, something
tells you like this movie less than I did. What
did you think of Tory Spelling's performance?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I mean, this whole movie is front to back insane
kook City, USA. There were parts of it that were
really fun. There was some really fun lines. All the
most fun lines are delivered by Parker Posy, who is
It's impossible for her to give a bad performance. She's
so funny. This is a role she was born to play.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
It sort of invented Parker Posy. She's been another stuff before,
and this was probably like four or five years into
her career as a buzzy young actress. But there's something
about this performance that to me defines a Parker Posy performance,
like the combination of complete pitch black delivery, the campiness,
(08:54):
the fact that she doesn't care what anyone else is doing.
She is there to deliver the line yes, and she's
like basically in a different movie than everyone else.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, in a better movie.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, She's amazing. I love. There were again a number
of lines that really made me laugh that she delivered, like, oh,
if we're all going to start telling the truth, I'm
going to bed.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I mean yes. It's one of the most incredible lines
in the movie, and that is when she is accused
of being spoiled, Like she she says something and then
Tory Spelling is like, well, I just think you're spoiled,
and you think this is going to be some big fight,
Inches goes, if people are gonna start telling the truth,
I'm gonna go to bed.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I mean yeah. When Freddy Prince Junior is accusingly probing
her about having an incestuous relationship with her twin brother.
She goes, don't be so bourgeois.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
This is based on a play, we should say, and
it's sort of like.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Doubt, which I can't believe.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It almost did make more sense to me somehow, because
I'm like, oh, yes, I could see like off off
Broadway audiences being like, well that was a gas yeah,
like an incest movie about the Kennedys, And there is
something very intentionally claustrophobic about it. I mean, they're in
this house the whole time. It's very quippy and dialogue heavy.
I mean there's one sequence where it goes, are you
being wise? And then Jackie O goes, one day I
(10:08):
woke up wise, and he goes, one day I woke
up stupid, and she goes, what did you do? He goes,
I went back to bed. She goes, that was wise.
Like it's so it's so like quippy and almost sitcom
meets off Broadway play.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, meets classic Hollywood comedy. We'll be back with more
United States of Kennedy after this break, and we're back
(10:43):
with more United States of Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So, okay, the brother arrives with the girlfriend. It is
immediately announced that they are engaged, and you can tell
that from the moment that is revealed Jackie O is.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Pissed because she lets out a scream.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yes, another like incredible Parker Posimoe or you know, all
the script said was like haha, and she's like got it.
I'm gonna like scream at the top of my lungs,
turn it into laughter and then like ad lib the next.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Line and it's gonna last for three minutes.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes. Over the course of this night, the tensions are rising.
It slowly revealed that the twins have this prior romantic relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A very long lasting romantic sexual relationship.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Trumendic sexual relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Part of the reason we find out that Parker Posey
was institutionalized and why she's on all these crazy meds.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
She was institutionalized. Meanwhile, he's hoofs to New York. He's
totally fine. He's dating a donut chuck girl.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, it smells like powdered sugar.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Right, Yeah, but you can't marry a girl who smells
like powdered sugar. Another amazing line. And then, by the way,
this relationship started from the womb because as the most
oh my God informs us, they were born with Jackie
O holding Marty's penis, said it had never been received before.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
They're in a bunch of medical textbooks.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So, Julia, would you like to explain to our listeners
what the twins relationship to the Kennedy assassination is.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
No, I would not.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So basically, this movie is set in the eighties, so
it's supposed to be like twenty or so years after
the assassination.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Supposed to be exactly twenty years from the assassination.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Twenty years from the assassination. And she obviously is obsessed
with Jackie. Oh, she's like doing this almost like Jackie
o drag with the preppy dress and the pearls, the outfit,
the hair, the hair, even though she talks sometimes becomes
sort of like mid Atlantic in this kind of funny way.
And basically, what we come to realize is that as
(12:45):
a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out
the Kennedy assassination. And so she would have a gun
loaded with blanks, pretend to shoot him, and then as
Jackie would like, take him into her arms and kind of,
you know, hide his head in her bosom as the
(13:05):
same way Jackie did in her memory when the assassination happened.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And then the fireworks would start.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's right, you know, I didn't want to give it
all away, but yes, it was, as I said afore
before a player. So obviously a bunch of other stuff happens,
you know. The Tory Spelling slowly finds out what she's
gotten herself into. She's obviously ver freaked out about it,
because she is normal, not the stigmatized twin sest. The
mom is, in her own weird way, both obviously disapproving
(13:32):
of the twin seest but also encouraging it because she
thinks that his sister is the only woman that is
good enough for him, that is good enough for him. Then,
through a series of machinations, Freddy Prince Junior, who plays
the kind of awkward young brother, ends up seducing Tory Spelling,
and she and her kind of chaotic confusion. In the
(13:54):
midst of finding out this dark secret about her fiance
sleeps with his brother. Then that is used to blackmail
her and turn Marty against her, and pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Looks like maybe because Marty and JACKIEO have rekindled their romance.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's right, Marty is their brother. He played by Josh Hamilton.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, they've rekindled their romance, so JACKIEO thinks he'll stay
this time, he won't leave, And then there's a big
climactic scene.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And basically the final dilemma that Marty, who is the
brother that is choosing between his girlfriend and his sister,
the final dilemma that he has is is he going
to go back to New York with Tory Spelling and
continue their wonderful life of living in the West village
and reading the newspaper every day and taking baths together,
or is he going to stay home and in the
(14:46):
words of Tory Spelling, have children with webbed feet that
they can bury in the backyard. Another really wonderful image
from this field. And so he sort of is about
to leave with Tory Spelling, and then Jackie Oh says,
can we do it one last time? Meaning do the
reenactment of the assassination one last time? And he says yes,
(15:06):
And then we are led to believe that the gun
is in fact loaded this time, aka she kills him.
And then in the final scenes we see Tory Spelling
running out of the house. I can't remember she's covered
in blood or no, she's not. She's leaving the house,
like freaked out because her fiance was just murdered in
front of her by his sister slash X. And then
(15:27):
the final scenes we go back to the sort of
flashbacks where Rachel Lee Cook is playing young Jackie and
it just shows their first encounters. So, folks, that's the
plot of the House of Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And as we said, it's a movie for the whole family.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You know, obviously it's not for the faint of heart.
But if you've gotten this far listening to a podcast
about the Kennedys, you know, I hate to say, we've
discussed much worse things than you know, safely contained twin
sest in a Virginia suburb.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
It is really no worse than what the Kennedys themselves
have done.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, that's why I was like, okay, we need
a light episode after it two. I mean, we've talked
about a brutal murder. We've talked about botched military operation
that killed hundreds of people. We've talked about just horrible
trials and miscarriagters of justice. We've talked about RFK Junior
making sure all of us get measles and bumps. But
first of all, I would love to know your thoughts
(16:17):
about this movie. Did you have any history with it?
Did you know anything about it going in?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I didn't know anything about it. I realized that I
had seen the movie poster before. I had definitely seen it.
I don't know if it was I'm sure that it
was in the Parker Posi collection on Criterion or something
like that. And I had definitely seen the movie poster,
but I had no conception of what it was. I
watched the trailer and I said, well, this movie looks insane,
(16:43):
and I'm glad I watched the trailer because I think
I would have been in for a rude awakening if
I had really gone in totally cold. But there were
definitely some really funny, stupid parts. But it felt long.
It's like an hour and twenty minutes, and it felt long.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, just waiting for the finale to happen in the
entire time, and it's funny. I actually I had watched
it four months ago, and when I suggested doing it
for this episode, I had the dilemma of like, do
I rewatch or do I just read the Wikipedia and
remember what I watched four months ago. I'm glad I
rewatched it because I had honestly forgotten a lot of
the different plot points, but there was a part of
(17:21):
me that was like, is this the movie I want
to watch twice in four months? That said, I have
to say, I weirdly enjoyed it more the second time.
I think, because when you know what it is, it's
almost like taking the first sip of wine and it's
like bursting in your mouth, and then with the second
step you get all the nuances. I feel like with
my first watch, I was like, Wow, okay, so this
is really just about incest. And then with the second watch,
(17:42):
knowing that going in, I was able to appreciate the
performances more and appreciate the writing more. And I totally
see what you're saying about it being like a long
hour and twenty minutes, but there's something about the quippiness
of it and it was contained. It also really just
made me nostalgic for a different era of a mar
and indie film, Like just the fact that this movie
(18:03):
was at sun Dance. It had the stunt casting with
Tory Spelling. It was kind of banking on these like
semi unknown stars. Then it was a hit with like
the kooky people that would go to Sundance in nineteen
ninety seven, so then it got picked up by the
way produced by Miramax. So thank you, Harvey Wyan.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Thank you hard as always amazing contribution. I know we
say it every episode, but thank you, thank you Harvey.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, exactly. Have you ever seen The Day Trippers.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I was just going to say, you know, Parker Posey
had this run in the nineties of like Party Girl,
the Day Trippers, all these great I mean, even Dazed
and Confused was not like a big budget film at all,
and they just aren't making movies like that anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, there's just something about this sort of like low budget.
It's almost like, you know, theater troupe putting up something
in like a black box theater or something. And so
it really did make me nostalgic for that era and
the big swings of it. I was kind of gloving
the second time around. I do want to talk about
the post a little bit because literally the poster for
(19:02):
me was such a clear memory seeing it a blockbust
check and being like, I think it might have been
the first time I ever saw a depiction of Jackie
Kennedy in that dress, Like, I think that was my
first reference, that's fine, and the same way that like,
I bet you. For some people that was like March
Simpson in the suit, and they were like who you know, Like,
because I hadn't seen you know. Again, not to age myself,
but nineteen eighty seven, I was very young. I had
(19:24):
not seen archival footage of and so I think I
was like, so, what is this pink suit?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
And then you know, you sort of start seeing it
around to pop culture, and obviously you connect the dots,
but there was something about it that was so appealing
to me, the cover of her holding the gun behind
her back and also smiling to Camra. It's the same
way I felt the first time I like became aware
of John Waters. I was like, oh, this is a
sensibility I'm interested in, Like whatever is happening here. There
(19:50):
is this twisted sense of humor and it's happening with
a wink, and it's kind of like written by and
for like smart gay people and like god, like I
want to be part of of that club like that.
And I really remember having thought like I'm not old
enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can't
wait until I am.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh that's so sweet and then.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
It's a very childlike memory.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
No it is. It's such a visceral kind of memory.
But yeah, I was gonna say too. I think it's
a very John Waters esque movie.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
It feels almost like have you ever seen Ceial Mom? No,
Cerial Mom was like his first foray and to try
to be a little more mainstream, and it's Kathleen Turner
plays a mom who starts murdering people. So she's like
a serial killer mom. And it's this halfway point between
true like trash B movie and like mainstream Hollywood movie.
So you know, you get Kathleen Turner. She's obviously a big,
(20:39):
bankable star. It is, you know, a broad comedy, but
she's also murdering people and that's kind of what this
is like. It's no coincidence that it became over the
year as a cult classic because it's sort of like
it's built to be that. It's not going to actually
be the movie that like makes Freddy Prince Junior famous, Right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I could see this being really fun to put on
at or something exactly. And just for some context, the
siko's on Letterbox love this movie. They love it. I
can see why. Honestly, it is fun and I think
that part of the reason why my viewing experience was
maybe like less fun than I wanted it to be,
(21:18):
it is just because I was watching it by myself,
and part of that is you just want somebody to
be able to turn to and be like, what, yeah, are.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Watching those folks. We're going to take a short break,
stay with us.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So we are ostensibly supposed to be talking about the Kennedy's.
I want to get into what the Kennedy reference could
possibly mean, because this is another thing I found myself
thinking way more in my second viewing. This is an
interesting common and terry about the traumatic nature of big
media events. Yeah, I'm thinking in terms of like for
our generation, the equivalent would have been obviously watching nine
(22:09):
to eleven footage on TV.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Which we don't remember because we're so young, But.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
It is, you know, the effect that a huge media
event that happens when you are like between the ages
of you know, six and fifteen, what that does to
you psychologically.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean that they mention it in the film, they
say everyone remembers where they were, and that's what my
parents say about it as well.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and it's like the fact that for them it's
it also becomes perverse and sexual. Is this other sort
of fascinating thing Like it reminded me of David Kronerberg's Crash,
where people are like their kink as car crashes. I
see the intelligent commentary hidden under you know, a Tory
Spelling movie, where I'm like, wow, this is kind of
like a very provocative thing to be saying that, like
(22:56):
these nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid
fervor actually hide something darker in us. That's like a
desire for something so perverted and forbidden or something. It's
I mean, it is like the perverted human instinct to
(23:16):
like look back at a car crash, the thing like,
if you pass a car crash, you're going to look
back at it.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I actually think there's really something to that analysis, because
how many times do we watch, I mean, even those
of us who were not born, how many times have
we all watched throughout the years the footage from Dallas.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, No, it's true.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
We do have a morbid cultural fascination with it, and
we do keep returning to the source material in a
way that I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
No, I think there was some other movie that is
alluding to the Zubruder tape the entire time, and then
at some point actually shows it. And it's honestly the
same kind of sense. You get what there's like an
especially pornographic seat in a movie and you're like, oh
my god, I'm not supposed to be looking at this. Yeah,
obviously the reaction is different, but the valence is similar,
of this weird excitement at seeing something that is supposed
(24:06):
to be forbidden.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well, the most recent example of that was the Charlie
Kirk footage, which it was getting passed around like crazy,
and when I saw the footage, I audibly gasped. I
don't know how you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I remember the first round of people being like, oh god,
I saw it, Oh God, I saw it. And I
was like, okay, well I'm going to avoid it. I'm
not going to seek it out. And of course, within
thirty seconds, sure when I was on Twitter or something,
wasn't getting censored. And this is the case with all
these things. There's the initial shock of seeing something so awful,
reaction to seeing it fifteen more times. Yeah, first you
get the shock and then you are almost surprised with
(24:42):
how much you slowly get used to it.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, the desensitizing.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, the desensitizing. I think it was clearly a very
provocative thing to place at the center of such a movie.
But I did find it to be kind of a
fascinating portrait of an American family and fall or something.
It's almost like this act of violence took away the
innocence of the American household.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, and then at the end it's kind of obliquely
revealed that the mom killed their dad and buried him
in the backyard and that's where all the children with
the webbed feet are going to go.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes. Yes, the more structural violence around us is kind
of reflected in each household in this rich Virginia suburb.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah. What a kooky movie.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
It's really something.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
But I do think that in terms of someone for
a mentally ill rich woman to emulate or be obsessed with,
it was of course it was Jackie.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Oh well, that's the other thing. Yes, And thank you
for bringing that up, because another kind of element of
the Kennedy thing is this was one of the first
instances of someone in politics becoming a celebrity in the
way that we think of now, when you think of
how Michelle Obama is treated when she goes on a
big book tour, she might as well be Lady Gaga
or Beyonce or Borrow Street or something like. She really
(26:00):
is like a celebrity. She's putting out a whole book
right now. That's about her style. It's not about you know,
politics or what she hopes for America, although I guess
she does hope everyone looks fabulous. So I do think
that that is also kind of an interesting element of it.
Like you think of a young woman being obsessed with
Madonna or being obsessed with an actress or something.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, if this was nineteen eighty three, it's just a
little odd. Yes, totally, she would be so obsessed with
this very recent I.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Know, I'm trying to think what the equivalent is, like
in two thousand and five, What was the tragedy that
happened that someone would be Well, maybe let's not let's
not look too much into that. But I actually think
that's part of it. She is weird when she shows
up to that party dress as Jackie. That's not normal.
That means, you know, it's kind of like nerdy kid
being into comic books. When all the other kids are
(26:52):
into race cars or whatever. It's her version of being
a weird girl who takes photos of dead birds.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, but it's an interesting little character study of this
very mentally a woman who has, among other things, delusions
of grandeur. Even though she is o sensibly very wealthy.
It seems like all the money is gone and like
there's something a little gray gardens about it.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yes, exactly, that's another Kennedy parallel. I feel, honestly even
just you know, we're obviously now talking in broad archetypes,
but the archetype of the sort of distant but controlling mother.
The fact that, yes, as you say, in this giant house, the.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Furniture is nice, but the kitchen's a mess, and the
maid is gone and are there sheets on the bed?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right? And of course there's this I mean, I keep
wanting to say, waspyo. But of course the Kennedy's are
Catholic famously, but thank you. Yes, but there's this very
proper speak. Even when talking about extremely dark issues, everything
has to be couched in politeness. Yeah, I find the
It's funny you mentioned the kitchen. One of the big
plot points is that because of the hurricane the power
(27:57):
goes out, so the oven doesn't work, so they can't
make things dinner. And I feel like that's also very
obvious nod to there is no coziness in this family,
Like they can't even cook dinner. They're there for Thanksgiving
on all they have to eat is so it's cold. Yes, exactly.
I mean I'm just looking at some of these quotes.
Troy Spelling goes, boy, it's been a long day, and
then Jaggie o goes not as long as yesterday. Yesterday
(28:19):
it was twenty four whole hours.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
If you love Parker Posey, you should watch this movie.
It's really full of because it is. It's kind of
a showcase for her to be as stranged.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
She's taping the windows to prepare for the rain because
she saw it somewhere and she saw it on the news.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
But it'll leave goo on the windows.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
But goo on the windows. Goo is what tape is
all about. Who is what makes a tape instead of paper?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
She's right.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I have to say, you know, would I recommend this film?
I would say yes. I say, get a group of
friends together, yeah, have a bottle of chardonnay, put out
some orders, make sure the oven is working.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, she's crackers something not not super pretentious, maybe not
a great chardin Ney, yes.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yes, and just don't have a ball. I mean this
quote love is for people with tiny lives. I mean
there's some real poetry.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And isn't the second part of that in tiny Little
heads or something?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah? So anyway, I think this gets an enthusiastic one
thumb up and one thumb down, but we're not sure
whose thumb is witch.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Go see it for yourself, Yes, go see it for yourself.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
There's so much cultural detritus that references the Kennedy's that
is completely you know, seatier in certain in terms of
the type of stuff we talk about. But it is
fun to see, aside from the super popular depictions of
the Kennedy's, how this stuff gets watered down and passed
down and then reappropriated in these weird kookie ways. It
just is in the DNA of American pop culture so
(29:50):
much that someone can write an off Broadway play that
then gets adapted into a film that then is like
reclaimed as a cult classic that is about twins that
have an ancestral relationship in which they fetishize the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And honestly, I do really mean this is that over
the course of this podcast, obviously you and I at
this point have watched quite a few movies that, as
you say, are just so Oscar Baby and trying so
hard to be taken seriously that they end up becoming
essentially like lifetime movies. And this goes in the other direction.
(30:27):
And I do prefer this.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I prefer this. I think
it's a very funny double feature with you know, Pabl
Lourian's Jackie starting Natalie Portman, because both of them are
such campy, cooky performances in just opposite ways. I mean,
Perker Posey is not trying to win an Oscar, She's
trying to win, of course, an audience award at Sun Dance.
(30:50):
That's right, but it is it's funny. It's funny the
way that this cultural iconography gets remixed and reappropriated for
each different age and for each different audience. And as
we said, with Julia Fox wearing this exact costume basically
just this year, it's not stopping anytime soon. I mean,
(31:10):
we're about to see a Jack Schlassberg congressional run. RFK
is as ever in the news for reasons both political
and personal.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
The Kennedy legacy is violent and upsetting in a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I have to mark myself safe from it every morning
when I wake up.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So yeah, I actually think the Julia Fox Halloween costume,
the fact that it happened this Halloween and she had
the suit covered in blood, I think we're never going
to shake this cultural morbid fascination with one of the
most gruesome public murders in modern American history.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
And not to mention Ryan Murphy working on the JFK
Junior Show, There's about to be an onslaught of Kennedy content,
So listeners of this podcast will be the only ones
prepared in America.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
You heard it here first. That's it for this week's episode.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Next week we will be going back to talking about
the actual Kennedy family and not just the fictional portrayal
of Kennedy related kinks. So subscribe and follow United States
of Kennedy for all Things Kennedy every week.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
United States of Kennedy is hosted by Me, Julia Clair,
and George Saveres.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Original music by Joshua Chopolski.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Editing by Graham Gibson.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Mixing and mastering by Doug Bame.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Our producer is Carmen Laurent.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Our executive producer is Jenna Cagele.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Created by Lyra Smith.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
I'm George Severis and I'm Julia Clair, and this is
United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination
with the Kennedy Dynasty. Every week we go into one
aspect of the Kennedy story, and today, after two pretty
serious episodes, we thought it might be good to give
everyone a break with something light, which is why we
are talking about the nineteen ninety seven cult classic dark
(00:28):
comedy The House of Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
The film is starring a who's who of late nineties
young stars, including Parker Posey, Freddy Prince, Junior, Tory Spelling,
and even a bizarre cameo from Rachel Lee Cook.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Shout out to Rachel Lee Cook, we love you on
this podcast, We love You. It is directed by Mark Waters, who,
if you don't recognize the name, he went on to
direct such true classics of our youth as Mean Girls
and Freaky Friday, but this was his directorial debut. So
this was a classic late nineties sun dance movie. It
is a pitch black comedy about two twins with a
(01:03):
dark secret.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Have you ever seen the film? You probably won't be
surprised to learn that it was a box office bomb
and got mixed reviews, but Parker Posey won a Special
Recognition for Acting Award at Sundance. Unfortunately, Tory Spelling did
receive a Razzie nomination for her performance.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
And listen, I obviously do write to the Risies every
year trying to contest their decision, but they haven't gotten
back to me yet. I will say she got that
Rosie nomination despite the fact that her father reportedly financed
the whole film. So nepotism can only get you so far,
which is heartening to know, especially on a podcast about
the Kennedy shout out to Jack Shlasberg's congressional run. Yes, So,
(01:42):
a review in Entertainment Weekly that we found says, the
House of Yes is knowingly overripe, a kitch melodrama that
dares to make incest sexy. And I just want to
say it is about.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
It's about damn time.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's about time an American film director to make incest sexy.
So that's the House of Yes. And before we get
into it, you might be wondering hearing us gab about
this Parker Posey film. We're talking Tory spellings, Rozzie, We're
talking incest, We're talking twins. You might be wondering what
does any of this have to do with the Kennedys.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, we'll tell you. The film opens and closes with
real archival footage of Jacqueline Kennedy giving her tour at
the White House, and it's interspliced with a young Rachel
Lee Cook spinning around in the very famous pink pillbox
hat Chanelle suit, and you're like, where is this going?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Right, So archival footage of Jackiet I have to say
at this point, having done this podcast for so many months,
I've seen that footage so many times, and each time
I'm again blown away by the sheer physics of her hair. Yes,
it really looks like a plastic paper mache hat. I
would say that was placed on top overhead, and that's.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Why the ozone layer became so big. That's right, every
woman in America. Their hair didn't move.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah. No, people say the Kennedys are so influential. They're
also the cause of climate change, that's right, which RFK
then tried to stop, but he got distracted by vaccine.
And so there are pluses and minuses. There are highs
and lows of this family.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It's a who's who of major world problems, that's right,
exactly incest climate change.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, climate change is in fact made literal in the
film because it takes place during this big storm, a hurricane.
So the movie opens with archival footage of Jackie giving
the famous White House tour and a young Rachel Lee
Cook who plays in the film, a young Parker Posey.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And the character's name is Jackie Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
And that is what everyone calls her, and we learn
pretty early on that it's because she went to a party.
What kind of party did she go to?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And IDEs of March party, Yes, thank you, I mean
I think it's just our party on March fourteen.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Got it, okay? And so she went to an IDEs
of March party dressed as Jackie O specifically post assassination
aka she had like blood and brains on her, which
I just want to quickly shout out, you know my
dear friend who I've never met, Julia Fox, who had
that exact same costume for this year as Halloween.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Right, and Julia, your email is out from the pod.
We want you to come on.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I would absolutely you know, Julia Fox has actually been
mentioned before on this podcast about Greg Gardens, the documentary
and Julia Fox actually introduced the fiftieth anniversary screening of
Greg Gardens and talked about how influential it was to
her incredible comedic sensibility. So I think she is just
like a big fan of the Kennedys more Broccoli, so
she's always welcome on the pod. But yeah, So basically,
(04:42):
Jackie O went to this IDEs of March party as
a teen, just as actual Jackie O in this pink
chanel suit. And she clearly has some attachment to the
JACKIEO iconography and the jfk assassination iconography that will be
export further in the film, right.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And it's I clear very early in the film that
Jackie O the character is deeply mentally ill and is
on various pills and lives in this grand mansion in
Virginia with her cold and distant mother and her weird
younger brother, played expertly by Freddy Prince Junior.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That's straight and one of his first roles. One of
the things that the Wikipedia says, you know, not to
out myself as having done Wikipedia research, is that Freddy
Prince Junior shot in quick succession this film and I
know what you did last summer.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And then I know what you did last summer was
of course his big breakout, so then his rising fame.
You know, I was about to say help this movie,
but in fact it didn't because this movie ended up
bombing in the box office.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But yeah, you know, if you've seen this movie, you
gotta wonder why why would this movie play?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But I know why did a dark comedy about incest
and twin sest starring a bunch of up and coming
Hollywood stars bomb at the box despite everyone's best efforts.
I have to say this is a great Perker Posy performance,
which we will get in incredible So, yes, mental illness
in this film is treated in the way only a
(06:08):
nineteen ninety seven comedy it can treat it.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I would call it a running gag.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yes, yes, yes, the famous running gag of this Woman's
on pills. It was a real classic in the late nineties.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And this one's just a little extra crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes. The undercurrent of the movie, of course, is that
all women are mentally ill. Jackie O, play by Perker Posey,
her brother played by Freddy Prince Junior, and their mother
are waiting for Jackie O's twin brother. There's three kids
in the family to come visit for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, And if you've heard our descriptions so far, I
know what you're thinking. A classic Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Film is this the family Stone? Is this?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Pieces of April, plainstrants and automobiles come.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
This is a fun one to watch with the whole family,
maybe your parents. You have your Thanksgiving leftovers, you have
your stuffing in turkey sandwich or saying God, I'm in
the mood for something cozy.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And it takes place during a storm. There's candle, It's
exactly is cozy.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
No, it is cozy. So then what happens Julia? The
brother arrives.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
The brother arrives and he has a quote unquote friend
in tow and it turns out to be his fiance,
played by Tory Spelling, the.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
One and only Tory Spelling. I said, hello, queen, it
is so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Missed you girl.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So okay, Tory Spelling is playing this like there's a
real kind of Madonna horror thing happening with Tory Spelling
on the one side, and you know Nympho maniac twin
cest enthusiast Parker Posey on the other side. So that's right, Tory,
Tory Spelling is playing this like innocent blonde, you know,
grew up working class and now works at a donut
(07:42):
shop and just wants to get.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Married and lead a middle Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
She's from Pennsylvania, which Pennsylvania in this movie is used
as a slur. You'll say it. It's literally like like
you're from Pennsylvania. Oh sorry, sweetie? Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
What's the line that's like, Pennsylvania is a place that's
just in your way when you're trying to get somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah. Well, and then Barker Posey is like, I've never
met anyone who's been from Pennsylvania. So okay. I think
Tory Spelling is doing a passable job here, Julia, something
tells you like this movie less than I did. What
did you think of Tory Spelling's performance?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I mean, this whole movie is front to back insane
kook City, USA. There were parts of it that were
really fun. There was some really fun lines. All the
most fun lines are delivered by Parker Posy, who is
It's impossible for her to give a bad performance. She's
so funny. This is a role she was born to play.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
It sort of invented Parker Posy. She's been another stuff before,
and this was probably like four or five years into
her career as a buzzy young actress. But there's something
about this performance that to me defines a Parker Posy performance,
like the combination of complete pitch black delivery, the campiness,
(08:54):
the fact that she doesn't care what anyone else is doing.
She is there to deliver the line yes, and she's
like basically in a different movie than everyone else.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, in a better movie.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, She's amazing. I love. There were again a number
of lines that really made me laugh that she delivered, like, oh,
if we're all going to start telling the truth, I'm
going to bed.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I mean yes. It's one of the most incredible lines
in the movie, and that is when she is accused
of being spoiled, Like she she says something and then
Tory Spelling is like, well, I just think you're spoiled,
and you think this is going to be some big fight,
Inches goes, if people are gonna start telling the truth,
I'm gonna go to bed.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I mean yeah. When Freddy Prince Junior is accusingly probing
her about having an incestuous relationship with her twin brother.
She goes, don't be so bourgeois.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
This is based on a play, we should say, and
it's sort of like.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Doubt, which I can't believe.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It almost did make more sense to me somehow, because
I'm like, oh, yes, I could see like off off
Broadway audiences being like, well that was a gas yeah,
like an incest movie about the Kennedys, And there is
something very intentionally claustrophobic about it. I mean, they're in
this house the whole time. It's very quippy and dialogue heavy.
I mean there's one sequence where it goes, are you
being wise? And then Jackie O goes, one day I
(10:08):
woke up wise, and he goes, one day I woke
up stupid, and she goes, what did you do? He goes,
I went back to bed. She goes, that was wise.
Like it's so it's so like quippy and almost sitcom
meets off Broadway play.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, meets classic Hollywood comedy. We'll be back with more
United States of Kennedy after this break, and we're back
(10:43):
with more United States of Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So, okay, the brother arrives with the girlfriend. It is
immediately announced that they are engaged, and you can tell
that from the moment that is revealed Jackie O is.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Pissed because she lets out a scream.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yes, another like incredible Parker Posimoe or you know, all
the script said was like haha, and she's like got it.
I'm gonna like scream at the top of my lungs,
turn it into laughter and then like ad lib the next.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Line and it's gonna last for three minutes.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes. Over the course of this night, the tensions are rising.
It slowly revealed that the twins have this prior romantic relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A very long lasting romantic sexual relationship.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Trumendic sexual relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Part of the reason we find out that Parker Posey
was institutionalized and why she's on all these crazy meds.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
She was institutionalized. Meanwhile, he's hoofs to New York. He's
totally fine. He's dating a donut chuck girl.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, it smells like powdered sugar.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Right, Yeah, but you can't marry a girl who smells
like powdered sugar. Another amazing line. And then, by the way,
this relationship started from the womb because as the most
oh my God informs us, they were born with Jackie
O holding Marty's penis, said it had never been received before.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
They're in a bunch of medical textbooks.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So, Julia, would you like to explain to our listeners
what the twins relationship to the Kennedy assassination is.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
No, I would not.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So basically, this movie is set in the eighties, so
it's supposed to be like twenty or so years after
the assassination.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Supposed to be exactly twenty years from the assassination.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Twenty years from the assassination. And she obviously is obsessed
with Jackie. Oh, she's like doing this almost like Jackie
o drag with the preppy dress and the pearls, the outfit,
the hair, the hair, even though she talks sometimes becomes
sort of like mid Atlantic in this kind of funny way.
And basically, what we come to realize is that as
(12:45):
a form of foreplay, the two twins would act out
the Kennedy assassination. And so she would have a gun
loaded with blanks, pretend to shoot him, and then as
Jackie would like, take him into her arms and kind of,
you know, hide his head in her bosom as the
(13:05):
same way Jackie did in her memory when the assassination happened.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And then the fireworks would start.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's right, you know, I didn't want to give it
all away, but yes, it was, as I said afore
before a player. So obviously a bunch of other stuff happens,
you know. The Tory Spelling slowly finds out what she's
gotten herself into. She's obviously ver freaked out about it,
because she is normal, not the stigmatized twin sest. The
mom is, in her own weird way, both obviously disapproving
(13:32):
of the twin seest but also encouraging it because she
thinks that his sister is the only woman that is
good enough for him, that is good enough for him. Then,
through a series of machinations, Freddy Prince Junior, who plays
the kind of awkward young brother, ends up seducing Tory Spelling,
and she and her kind of chaotic confusion. In the
(13:54):
midst of finding out this dark secret about her fiance
sleeps with his brother. Then that is used to blackmail
her and turn Marty against her, and pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Looks like maybe because Marty and JACKIEO have rekindled their romance.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's right, Marty is their brother. He played by Josh Hamilton.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, they've rekindled their romance, so JACKIEO thinks he'll stay
this time, he won't leave, And then there's a big
climactic scene.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And basically the final dilemma that Marty, who is the
brother that is choosing between his girlfriend and his sister,
the final dilemma that he has is is he going
to go back to New York with Tory Spelling and
continue their wonderful life of living in the West village
and reading the newspaper every day and taking baths together,
or is he going to stay home and in the
(14:46):
words of Tory Spelling, have children with webbed feet that
they can bury in the backyard. Another really wonderful image
from this field. And so he sort of is about
to leave with Tory Spelling, and then Jackie Oh says,
can we do it one last time? Meaning do the
reenactment of the assassination one last time? And he says yes,
(15:06):
And then we are led to believe that the gun
is in fact loaded this time, aka she kills him.
And then in the final scenes we see Tory Spelling
running out of the house. I can't remember she's covered
in blood or no, she's not. She's leaving the house,
like freaked out because her fiance was just murdered in
front of her by his sister slash X. And then
(15:27):
the final scenes we go back to the sort of
flashbacks where Rachel Lee Cook is playing young Jackie and
it just shows their first encounters. So, folks, that's the
plot of the House of Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And as we said, it's a movie for the whole family.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You know, obviously it's not for the faint of heart.
But if you've gotten this far listening to a podcast
about the Kennedys, you know, I hate to say, we've
discussed much worse things than you know, safely contained twin
sest in a Virginia suburb.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
It is really no worse than what the Kennedys themselves
have done.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean, that's why I was like, okay, we need
a light episode after it two. I mean, we've talked
about a brutal murder. We've talked about botched military operation
that killed hundreds of people. We've talked about just horrible
trials and miscarriagters of justice. We've talked about RFK Junior
making sure all of us get measles and bumps. But
first of all, I would love to know your thoughts
(16:17):
about this movie. Did you have any history with it?
Did you know anything about it going in?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I didn't know anything about it. I realized that I
had seen the movie poster before. I had definitely seen it.
I don't know if it was I'm sure that it
was in the Parker Posi collection on Criterion or something
like that. And I had definitely seen the movie poster,
but I had no conception of what it was. I
watched the trailer and I said, well, this movie looks insane,
(16:43):
and I'm glad I watched the trailer because I think
I would have been in for a rude awakening if
I had really gone in totally cold. But there were
definitely some really funny, stupid parts. But it felt long.
It's like an hour and twenty minutes, and it felt long.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, just waiting for the finale to happen in the
entire time, and it's funny. I actually I had watched
it four months ago, and when I suggested doing it
for this episode, I had the dilemma of like, do
I rewatch or do I just read the Wikipedia and
remember what I watched four months ago. I'm glad I
rewatched it because I had honestly forgotten a lot of
the different plot points, but there was a part of
(17:21):
me that was like, is this the movie I want
to watch twice in four months? That said, I have
to say, I weirdly enjoyed it more the second time.
I think, because when you know what it is, it's
almost like taking the first sip of wine and it's
like bursting in your mouth, and then with the second
step you get all the nuances. I feel like with
my first watch, I was like, Wow, okay, so this
is really just about incest. And then with the second watch,
(17:42):
knowing that going in, I was able to appreciate the
performances more and appreciate the writing more. And I totally
see what you're saying about it being like a long
hour and twenty minutes, but there's something about the quippiness
of it and it was contained. It also really just
made me nostalgic for a different era of a mar
and indie film, Like just the fact that this movie
(18:03):
was at sun Dance. It had the stunt casting with
Tory Spelling. It was kind of banking on these like
semi unknown stars. Then it was a hit with like
the kooky people that would go to Sundance in nineteen
ninety seven, so then it got picked up by the
way produced by Miramax. So thank you, Harvey Wyan.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Thank you hard as always amazing contribution. I know we
say it every episode, but thank you, thank you Harvey.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, exactly. Have you ever seen The Day Trippers.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I was just going to say, you know, Parker Posey
had this run in the nineties of like Party Girl,
the Day Trippers, all these great I mean, even Dazed
and Confused was not like a big budget film at all,
and they just aren't making movies like that anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, there's just something about this sort of like low budget.
It's almost like, you know, theater troupe putting up something
in like a black box theater or something. And so
it really did make me nostalgic for that era and
the big swings of it. I was kind of gloving
the second time around. I do want to talk about
the post a little bit because literally the poster for
(19:02):
me was such a clear memory seeing it a blockbust
check and being like, I think it might have been
the first time I ever saw a depiction of Jackie
Kennedy in that dress, Like, I think that was my
first reference, that's fine, and the same way that like,
I bet you. For some people that was like March
Simpson in the suit, and they were like who you know, Like,
because I hadn't seen you know. Again, not to age myself,
but nineteen eighty seven, I was very young. I had
(19:24):
not seen archival footage of and so I think I
was like, so, what is this pink suit?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
And then you know, you sort of start seeing it
around to pop culture, and obviously you connect the dots,
but there was something about it that was so appealing
to me, the cover of her holding the gun behind
her back and also smiling to Camra. It's the same
way I felt the first time I like became aware
of John Waters. I was like, oh, this is a
sensibility I'm interested in, Like whatever is happening here. There
(19:50):
is this twisted sense of humor and it's happening with
a wink, and it's kind of like written by and
for like smart gay people and like god, like I
want to be part of of that club like that.
And I really remember having thought like I'm not old
enough yet to get whatever this is, but I can't
wait until I am.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Oh that's so sweet and then.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
It's a very childlike memory.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
No it is. It's such a visceral kind of memory.
But yeah, I was gonna say too. I think it's
a very John Waters esque movie.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
It feels almost like have you ever seen Ceial Mom? No,
Cerial Mom was like his first foray and to try
to be a little more mainstream, and it's Kathleen Turner
plays a mom who starts murdering people. So she's like
a serial killer mom. And it's this halfway point between
true like trash B movie and like mainstream Hollywood movie.
So you know, you get Kathleen Turner. She's obviously a big,
(20:39):
bankable star. It is, you know, a broad comedy, but
she's also murdering people and that's kind of what this
is like. It's no coincidence that it became over the
year as a cult classic because it's sort of like
it's built to be that. It's not going to actually
be the movie that like makes Freddy Prince Junior famous, Right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I could see this being really fun to put on
at or something exactly. And just for some context, the
siko's on Letterbox love this movie. They love it. I
can see why. Honestly, it is fun and I think
that part of the reason why my viewing experience was
maybe like less fun than I wanted it to be,
(21:18):
it is just because I was watching it by myself,
and part of that is you just want somebody to
be able to turn to and be like, what, yeah, are.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Watching those folks. We're going to take a short break,
stay with us.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And we're back with more United States of Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So we are ostensibly supposed to be talking about the Kennedy's.
I want to get into what the Kennedy reference could
possibly mean, because this is another thing I found myself
thinking way more in my second viewing. This is an
interesting common and terry about the traumatic nature of big
media events. Yeah, I'm thinking in terms of like for
our generation, the equivalent would have been obviously watching nine
(22:09):
to eleven footage on TV.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Which we don't remember because we're so young, But.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
It is, you know, the effect that a huge media
event that happens when you are like between the ages
of you know, six and fifteen, what that does to
you psychologically.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean that they mention it in the film, they
say everyone remembers where they were, and that's what my
parents say about it as well.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and it's like the fact that for them it's
it also becomes perverse and sexual. Is this other sort
of fascinating thing Like it reminded me of David Kronerberg's Crash,
where people are like their kink as car crashes. I
see the intelligent commentary hidden under you know, a Tory
Spelling movie, where I'm like, wow, this is kind of
like a very provocative thing to be saying that, like
(22:56):
these nationwide media events that everyone consumes with such tabloid
fervor actually hide something darker in us. That's like a
desire for something so perverted and forbidden or something. It's
I mean, it is like the perverted human instinct to
(23:16):
like look back at a car crash, the thing like,
if you pass a car crash, you're going to look
back at it.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I actually think there's really something to that analysis, because
how many times do we watch, I mean, even those
of us who were not born, how many times have
we all watched throughout the years the footage from Dallas.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, No, it's true.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
We do have a morbid cultural fascination with it, and
we do keep returning to the source material in a
way that I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
No, I think there was some other movie that is
alluding to the Zubruder tape the entire time, and then
at some point actually shows it. And it's honestly the
same kind of sense. You get what there's like an
especially pornographic seat in a movie and you're like, oh
my god, I'm not supposed to be looking at this. Yeah,
obviously the reaction is different, but the valence is similar,
of this weird excitement at seeing something that is supposed
(24:06):
to be forbidden.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well, the most recent example of that was the Charlie
Kirk footage, which it was getting passed around like crazy,
and when I saw the footage, I audibly gasped. I
don't know how you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I remember the first round of people being like, oh god,
I saw it, Oh God, I saw it. And I
was like, okay, well I'm going to avoid it. I'm
not going to seek it out. And of course, within
thirty seconds, sure when I was on Twitter or something,
wasn't getting censored. And this is the case with all
these things. There's the initial shock of seeing something so awful,
reaction to seeing it fifteen more times. Yeah, first you
get the shock and then you are almost surprised with
(24:42):
how much you slowly get used to it.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, the desensitizing.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, the desensitizing. I think it was clearly a very
provocative thing to place at the center of such a movie.
But I did find it to be kind of a
fascinating portrait of an American family and fall or something.
It's almost like this act of violence took away the
innocence of the American household.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, and then at the end it's kind of obliquely
revealed that the mom killed their dad and buried him
in the backyard and that's where all the children with
the webbed feet are going to go.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes. Yes, the more structural violence around us is kind
of reflected in each household in this rich Virginia suburb.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah. What a kooky movie.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
It's really something.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
But I do think that in terms of someone for
a mentally ill rich woman to emulate or be obsessed with,
it was of course it was Jackie.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Oh well, that's the other thing. Yes, And thank you
for bringing that up, because another kind of element of
the Kennedy thing is this was one of the first
instances of someone in politics becoming a celebrity in the
way that we think of now, when you think of
how Michelle Obama is treated when she goes on a
big book tour, she might as well be Lady Gaga
or Beyonce or Borrow Street or something like. She really
(26:00):
is like a celebrity. She's putting out a whole book
right now. That's about her style. It's not about you know,
politics or what she hopes for America, although I guess
she does hope everyone looks fabulous. So I do think
that that is also kind of an interesting element of it.
Like you think of a young woman being obsessed with
Madonna or being obsessed with an actress or something.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yeah, if this was nineteen eighty three, it's just a
little odd. Yes, totally, she would be so obsessed with
this very recent I.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Know, I'm trying to think what the equivalent is, like
in two thousand and five, What was the tragedy that
happened that someone would be Well, maybe let's not let's
not look too much into that. But I actually think
that's part of it. She is weird when she shows
up to that party dress as Jackie. That's not normal.
That means, you know, it's kind of like nerdy kid
being into comic books. When all the other kids are
(26:52):
into race cars or whatever. It's her version of being
a weird girl who takes photos of dead birds.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, but it's an interesting little character study of this
very mentally a woman who has, among other things, delusions
of grandeur. Even though she is o sensibly very wealthy.
It seems like all the money is gone and like
there's something a little gray gardens about it.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yes, exactly, that's another Kennedy parallel. I feel, honestly even
just you know, we're obviously now talking in broad archetypes,
but the archetype of the sort of distant but controlling mother.
The fact that, yes, as you say, in this giant house, the.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Furniture is nice, but the kitchen's a mess, and the
maid is gone and are there sheets on the bed?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right? And of course there's this I mean, I keep
wanting to say, waspyo. But of course the Kennedy's are
Catholic famously, but thank you. Yes, but there's this very
proper speak. Even when talking about extremely dark issues, everything
has to be couched in politeness. Yeah, I find the
It's funny you mentioned the kitchen. One of the big
plot points is that because of the hurricane the power
(27:57):
goes out, so the oven doesn't work, so they can't
make things dinner. And I feel like that's also very
obvious nod to there is no coziness in this family,
Like they can't even cook dinner. They're there for Thanksgiving
on all they have to eat is so it's cold. Yes, exactly.
I mean I'm just looking at some of these quotes.
Troy Spelling goes, boy, it's been a long day, and
then Jaggie o goes not as long as yesterday. Yesterday
(28:19):
it was twenty four whole hours.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
If you love Parker Posey, you should watch this movie.
It's really full of because it is. It's kind of
a showcase for her to be as stranged.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
She's taping the windows to prepare for the rain because
she saw it somewhere and she saw it on the news.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
But it'll leave goo on the windows.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
But goo on the windows. Goo is what tape is
all about. Who is what makes a tape instead of paper?
Speaker 2 (28:44):
She's right.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I have to say, you know, would I recommend this film?
I would say yes. I say, get a group of
friends together, yeah, have a bottle of chardonnay, put out
some orders, make sure the oven is working.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, she's crackers something not not super pretentious, maybe not
a great chardin Ney, yes.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yes, and just don't have a ball. I mean this
quote love is for people with tiny lives. I mean
there's some real poetry.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And isn't the second part of that in tiny Little
heads or something?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah? So anyway, I think this gets an enthusiastic one
thumb up and one thumb down, but we're not sure
whose thumb is witch.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Go see it for yourself, Yes, go see it for yourself.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
There's so much cultural detritus that references the Kennedy's that
is completely you know, seatier in certain in terms of
the type of stuff we talk about. But it is
fun to see, aside from the super popular depictions of
the Kennedy's, how this stuff gets watered down and passed
down and then reappropriated in these weird kookie ways. It
just is in the DNA of American pop culture so
(29:50):
much that someone can write an off Broadway play that
then gets adapted into a film that then is like
reclaimed as a cult classic that is about twins that
have an ancestral relationship in which they fetishize the Kennedy assassination.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And honestly, I do really mean this is that over
the course of this podcast, obviously you and I at
this point have watched quite a few movies that, as
you say, are just so Oscar Baby and trying so
hard to be taken seriously that they end up becoming
essentially like lifetime movies. And this goes in the other direction.
(30:27):
And I do prefer this.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I prefer this. I think
it's a very funny double feature with you know, Pabl
Lourian's Jackie starting Natalie Portman, because both of them are
such campy, cooky performances in just opposite ways. I mean,
Perker Posey is not trying to win an Oscar, She's
trying to win, of course, an audience award at Sun Dance.
(30:50):
That's right, but it is it's funny. It's funny the
way that this cultural iconography gets remixed and reappropriated for
each different age and for each different audience. And as
we said, with Julia Fox wearing this exact costume basically
just this year, it's not stopping anytime soon. I mean,
(31:10):
we're about to see a Jack Schlassberg congressional run. RFK
is as ever in the news for reasons both political
and personal.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
The Kennedy legacy is violent and upsetting in a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I have to mark myself safe from it every morning
when I wake up.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So yeah, I actually think the Julia Fox Halloween costume,
the fact that it happened this Halloween and she had
the suit covered in blood, I think we're never going
to shake this cultural morbid fascination with one of the
most gruesome public murders in modern American history.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
And not to mention Ryan Murphy working on the JFK
Junior Show, There's about to be an onslaught of Kennedy content,
So listeners of this podcast will be the only ones
prepared in America.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
You heard it here first. That's it for this week's episode.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Next week we will be going back to talking about
the actual Kennedy family and not just the fictional portrayal
of Kennedy related kinks. So subscribe and follow United States
of Kennedy for all Things Kennedy every week.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
United States of Kennedy is hosted by Me, Julia Clair,
and George Saveres.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Original music by Joshua Chopolski.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Editing by Graham Gibson.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Mixing and mastering by Doug Bame.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Our producer is Carmen Laurent.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Our executive producer is Jenna Cagele.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Created by Lyra Smith.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
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