101: Sweet Baby w/ Shonda Rhimes

The one-and-only creator of Scandal, Shonda Rhimes joins Katie and Guillermo in their inaugural episode of Unpacking The Toolbox, covering the famous pilot that started it all. Guillermo is shocked to learn where “Gladiators in suits” came from, and Katie shares her once in a lifetime casting story. Plus, Shonda discusses never-before-heard details about the development process for the show, but not before Katie and Guillermo applaud themselves for still fitting into their Scandal shirts from ten years ago.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Unpacking the Toolboxes of production of shondol and Audio in
partnership with our Heart Radio. Yes, Katie, gee, Katie, Oh,

(00:38):
it's happening. Oh man, we are actually here. We're doing
the Scandal rewatch podcast, unpacking the toolbox together together. I mean,
don't get me wrong, I am very excited to rewatch episodes,
which we have to tell you guys how it's been going.
And we've been wanting to do a rewatch podcast and
hang out with our fans. Are gladiators who we have

(01:01):
missed for far too long. But really, this is just
my excuse to hang out with my favorite person on
the planet. Same. We just want to hang out together
so we could talk shit and reminisce about one of
the best shows on television. Yes, do you remember when
the last time you watched like a Scandal episode? Are

(01:22):
you kidding? Okay, First of all, it has been ten years.
We just celebrated the tenure anniversary of the pilot area.
That's crazy. I don't think I have watched like I
don't think I've watched any episodes of you. I don't
think so either. You know, there was a moment there
where they were still playing like on on ABC or

(01:42):
where I'd be flipping through channels and catch a glimpse,
but I wouldn't I wouldn't stay. I would be I
would sort of, you know, smile inside and sort of
chuckled to myself, but then move on. I woul didn't
sit there and watch the whole episode. But being able
to do that for the podcast was like a gift, man.
I have to say again, like the biggest when I
was like, we're doing this scandal rewatch podcast. It's called

(02:06):
Unpacking the Toolbox, which, let's just take a moment. That
is a freaking great title. It is the best title.
I love it so much. It's so hucking Quinn. It's
so Huckleberry Quinn. It's so right for the Gladiators, the
o G Gladiators. You know about our toolbox, you know
about Huck and his tools. It's great. Okay, so I'm
packing the toolbox and there's a toolbox emoji now on

(02:28):
Instagram there's a toolbox emoji. So Gladiators, suit the fuck up.
Tell your friends about this fucking podcast, and make sure
you put the toolbox emoji when you do something. But
right quick, I was like mostly excited to hang out
with you. Because I'm obsessed with you and I think
you're the most special, perfect human and ever born, which
I think you guys who watched the show know that

(02:48):
quinnin Huk had a very special connection. But I was
most freaked out about going back and watching the episodes.
I was like, I don't know, I was freaked out
in the low key excited because I was like sometimes
I'm like, sometimes I do enjoy watching myself, but I
don't want like somebody will walk in and be like,
you're watching yourself. So I was like every time Mikey

(03:09):
would walk in, I'd be like, well, I have to
do this for work. This is for work. You know,
I hate watching myself. You couldn't pay me. Well, you
could pay me a million dollars to do so, but
I don't really like watching myself. And I was concerned,
like as ten years too long or too short, Like
what is the perfect amount to be watching the show.
And because of this podcast going back and rewatching these episodes,

(03:31):
because G and I are taking this podcast very seriously.
We are we are doing our research. We are watching
the episodes backwards and forwards. We have amazing guests coming
in to talk about their experiences and their process and
how this whole thing went down. But I am loving
the episode. Me too shocked about it, like I don't
remember ship. I don't remember. I don't remember these episodes.

(03:53):
I mean I remember moments and and scenes here and there.
But I'm enjoying it so much. God, I too, and
I feel like we were so caught up while we
were shooting it. But now going back and being able
to watch it without any distractions, it's such a good show.
It's so good, and I feel like a gladiator with

(04:14):
a gladiator, I said. Quinn says gladiator in a succi
wants to be a gladiator in a suit in the pilot.
But we were so in it when we were making
the show, and then when we would even watch the episodes.
Back then, we were so obsessed with tweeting that we
really didn't focus and give my full attention to watching
the episodes. And right now going back and watching these episodes,

(04:34):
I am such a fan. I am such a fan,
so exciting, I am such an o G gladiator. I
love everyone's characters, the writing, the way that it was shot,
the ins and outs. I'm just grateful already. And what's good?
I want to say real quick to that what's good
about this podcast is even if you haven't rewatched the show,

(04:57):
you're still gonna freaking enjoy the podcast because that's how
fucking nutty and like fun and crazy and cookie me
and Katie are getting on this podcast. Yeah we have fun, Yes,
but if you can rewatch Scandal on Hulu, because it
really is a fa can amazing show like no other,
it holds up. That's one thing. I mean, I'm sure

(05:19):
so many actors artists watch stuff they've shot in the
past and you're like, oh wow, this thing is just
come and gone and is it doesn't really hold up.
Scandal one holds up. I am watching all the other
critically as claim shows right now, and Scandal is just
as good, if not better. Hew yourself a favor. Listen
to the podcast, rewatch the episodes, hang out with us.

(05:41):
Every episode is going to be such a fucking good time.
It's me and g hanging out shooting the ship. We
are talking about plot. We have guests that come on
that talk about their processes. We talked about what we
ate for lunch. We talked about farts, we talked about crying,
we talk about sex, We talk about tears Stick. We
talk about every single amazing actor, guest star, co star,

(06:04):
and every horror film they've ever been in thanks to
Germo Diaz. And then we just like hang out, make
you laugh, have a good time, and feel like the
Scandal fam is all back together again exactly agains all
back together. And this is our first freaking show. It's
the first podcast we've ever done. We are going back

(06:28):
in time. It's the ten year anniversary since the pilot
aired and drastically changed all of our lives. Really, and
Germo and I are wearing our T g I T
and garmoious. I'm wearing a season two Scandal like baseball

(06:50):
jersey type situation sands like the undershirt because it's too
damn tight. Because this is old as hell, so we
deserve all the applause that we are fitting. We are
going to be bringing out on this podcast all the
vintage throwback Scandal things we got. Okay, Gee, take me
back to where you were in your life before Huck,

(07:11):
What the heck were you doing? Honestly, I was at
a point in my life where I was no joke,
like I need a job, like I really need a job.
I was doing you know, guest spots, and I I
was I was still doing Weeds at the time, but
I was recurring on weeds, so it wasn't a steady gig,
you know what I mean. I loved being on Weeds,

(07:32):
but I was at that point in my life where
I was like, I really need to book something significant
that That's where I was in my life. So when
scandal came along, I was like fucking like, oh man,
thank god, where were you? Do you remember where you
were at? Like right before Oh my god, I was
twenty eight. I just got it engaged to Adam Shapiro

(07:54):
at um sweet sweet Adam. And I was a bag
be sitter, and you would You've been doing that for years, right,
like you were a nanny for a long time. I
was a waitress for a decade, and then I couldn't
handle the food service industry anymore in Los Angeles because

(08:15):
I would always wait on people that I was auditioning for. Literally,
like I would have like screen tests and be auditioning
and then I would be like asking for their drink
order and yet exactly, and so I was like, oh,
I could still babysit and pay my rent that way.
But at least it's like behind closed doors and not
as embarrassing. Um. And so I was nannying for a
very very fancy, high falutin family when the call for

(08:40):
scandal came in and I remember being like, Oh my god,
her name is Quinn and my middle name is Quinn,
and maybe that's a sign from the universe that this
is my part? Can this please be my part? Can
this please save me from this? And similar to you,
like I had been working, but not at the level
you had been working, but I had been you know,
I had done a bunch of guest stars. I had
occurred on a couple of shows. I had booked a

(09:01):
pilot that didn't go, Like there were some things, but
it was never ever, ever steady enough where I could
give up my side hut exactly. Yeah. And I was
at that place where I was like, am I going
to have to get aside hustle? Like right before this?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't believe it. Yeah,
you know how it is for actors. It ebbs and
flows like the craziest it's feast or famine. Yeah, you

(09:22):
make good money and then that ship, that job ends
and you're like, Okay, I have no idea what's next,
because we just got to go back to the drawing board,
go back to auditioning. Yeah, do you remember the first
time you and I met? Katie? I don't remember, do you?
How dare you? Neither do I remember? I feel like
you've always like we've always been connected, and you've always

(09:46):
sort of been in my life since scandal started. So
I but I don't remember exactly the moment. Was it
at Prospect Studios where we rehearsed. It had to have been,
but I don't remember either, whatever, But I feel like
me and you like gravitated towards each other, like emotionally
and physically probably as well. We were like I love

(10:08):
this girl. Like I feel like that happened right away. Yeah,
we neither one of us may be able to remember
the exact moment we met, but I do know that
from the jump it was a love and a soulmate
connection of like we are going to travel this life together. Yes,

(10:29):
and then and then we had that tumultual affair. But
that's not that's neither here nor there. We'll save that
for the podcast. I love it. Guys. Keep listening. You
can hear about me and Garmo's affair. Um, I am
in love with you though, and how could you not be?
And I also just think we had those scenes in
the pilot together. I feel like we've tied scene in

(10:53):
the pilot where we were in the bathroom and you said,
we don't cry here and you're a stray dog and
Olivia takes us in. But we also got the best scoop,
like me and me and you always had the scoop. Remember,
sometimes we'd be on set talking talking about stuff or
having telling a story or some like scoop in Spanish
and then Carry Carry has serious fomo. Oh yeah, she's

(11:16):
always the last to know. But also Carry would hear
us and be we'd be so into telling into what
we were talking about that she would feel that energy
and walk over and be like, what are you guys
talking about? Tell me and we'd be like, by the way,
that would be everybody and you and I we could talk.
You guys will see as we get into the Scandal
Rewatch podcast, Garmo and I can talk for a hundred

(11:36):
thousand hours about absolutely nothing and it's hilarious and we
love it. But that was how the entire seven years
of Scandal was, and he and I are always talking,
having fun, gossiping whatever. And everyone always gravitated towards our
our energy just like yeah, man, they always entergy and
so we always have the scoop. We knew what everybody

(11:58):
was up to without the ado. Let's get this this
premier red carpet first episode of the Scandal Rewatch podcast,
Unpacking the toolbox off and running to the races we
have got. Episode one on one, titled Sweet Baby, It
aired on April five in two thousand twelve. It was

(12:19):
written by Shanna Rhymes and it was directed by the
brilliant Paul McGuigan. Guest starring Wes Brown, is Selly st James, Amy,
Kay Harmon is Ario Massey, Brian Resmussen is Howie, Alan
Coleman is Lad and Marek Probosk as O Scott. All
you gladiators listening know that one of the most important

(12:40):
key elements of the special sauce that made Scandal scandal
was the scandal pace at which we told story. So
let us warm your ears up and your heart's up
by telling you weekly the synopsis of each episode that
we're going to dive into, and we're gonna tell you
the synopsis of that episode in Scandal paste give it
to him. Let's give it to him. When Quinn Perkins

(13:02):
starts a new job at crisis Management from Olivia popean associates,
she must stay on her toes to navigate the tricky
cases they handle. The latest kind of Opia Selly st
James stumbles into the office, distraught and covered in the
blood of his dead girlfriend, adamant that he didn't kill her,
but tight lipped on the details. Meanwhile, the White House
is facing a scandal with the President and an aid
and who else is brought in to fix the problem
about Olivia Pope. That's what I'm talking about. Guys. It's

(13:25):
been a while. G and I. We need to do
our vocal warming. Leather bands his fist against the post.
He still insists he sees the ghosts. Remember that one,
But it's amazing. Oh my god, I'm obsessed with it. Okay,
So we'll jog your memories. Every episode will tell you
the title, the director, the guest stars, the co stars,

(13:47):
the synopsis in Scandal Pace and some episodes we're going
to have guests. Some episodes we ain't gonna have guests.
But this episode we got to guest, and now we
need a drumroll. People, I can't wait. We don't even
need a drum roll. We also need a full on
Stevie Wonder song, the Franklin Song, or any of the

(14:11):
amazing songs that Scandal had. Two key up the Queen.
I'm doing a little shuffle in my seat because I'm
excited the Queen of Television. For the inaugural episode, we
pull out the biggie, the big guns, the one, the only,
the most special. Queen Bee herself shot Ny Hello, and

(14:37):
we need to take a picture of this. We're drinking
out of our gladiator wine cups. It's too early in
the morning to actually be drinking. Who gave us these glasses?
Did we get him from? Was it production that gifted these?
I don't even remember, might have come from the network,
I don't know. Wow. Well, you know what, there's gonna
be hopefully a real opportunity for merch with this podcast,

(14:58):
because this is a great wine Shanda, can you tell
us about where you got this idea? The origin story
of Scandal meeting Judy Smith writing the pilot. So I
was busy at the time with Grays and I think
also private practice and Betsy was like, I met this
incredible woman. She's got this incredible job. I wanted to
talk to you about it. And I was like, I

(15:20):
don't have time for this. You know, I'm just too
busy and I wasn't thinking about creating another show. No,
you already had too yeah, too much to do. So
Betsy said, UM, just sit with her for like a
half an hour. So Judy Smith came in. She's this amazing,
formidable woman who basically always wears white, sat down and
started talking to me about her job. And the more
she talked to me about the job, the more I

(15:40):
was like, this is fascinating, this life of a fixer.
Because Judy had been like the fixer for the White
House during the Bush era, which too era, and she
had all these amazing stories and I was sort of
dazzled by the stories. I thought they were amazing. She'd
represented Monticawinski, you know, that whole thing, like she's done
a lot. And we ended up talking not for half
an hour, but like for four hours or something like that.

(16:03):
By the time we were done talking, I was like,
I can see like seventy episodes easy, Like I can
see exactly what those episodes would be yeah, And then
did you just go off and write? Was it like
an easy thing to write? Was it? Did it? Was
it hard to get it out of your brain? No?
You know, I think it was pretty easy to write
because I kind of understood the character I was making.
Once I let go of the fact that it didn't

(16:24):
have to be exactly Duty that I could play, I
felt really good about the character I was making, and
then all the other characters became really clear to me
really fast, which was great. God for us, Thank God
for you. Duty was there to like tell me how
she did her job, Like I'd call her and ask
for like like tiny details how she did her job.

(16:44):
And that's what really made the series I think special,
is the fact that we had so many real informing us.
First of all, she gave us all of her business
cards when we started, and I was like, please, Lord,
let us never have to use this, like I don't
want to call it. Didn't she come to like one
of our first rehearsals at Prospect Studios. I think that
we were hurt. We rehearsed the show like it was

(17:05):
a play, and I remember her being there. I think
that's when she gave us her business cards, and we
were all like, oh my god, this is d Judy Smith.
This is who Olivia Pope is loosely based on and
obviously on the show, Like you know, Olivia Pope has
an affair with the president. Obviously that didn't happen with
Judy Smith. This woman has to go around being like
scandals based on my life. But I did not sleep
with Bush Senior Junior. Inspired by inspired by my job

(17:27):
is what I kept telling her to say, yes, yes, yes,
that's great. Inspired by my job. So when you were
when you were listening to her story, Shanda, and did
it just sort of come into your brain that you
kind of went off and then started thinking, oh, they
these two characters can have an affair, and it sort
of grew from there? Where where did that sort of
come from? When I'm making a show or making writing

(17:48):
a script, I always think what's the worst thing that
could happen for these two people? Like what's the worst
way for things to go so great? Which is you
know how Huck ended up like a violent kill and
you know what I mean, But what's the worst way
to go? And the worst way I could think of
was if you're representing a girl from the White House
because it really started with me having like a little
Monica Lensky story. I was like, the worst thing is

(18:09):
that that you've been having a secret affair with this
man and now you discover that this is just how
he plays. That's not good. But when you wrote the pilot,
did you have any idea that the fits Olivia phenomenon
the one minute to the take off your clothes, the
chemistry beyond epic proportions would be what it was not
when I wrote it. Not when I wrote it, And

(18:30):
I remember the studio calling me up on the network,
calling me up and saying, can you we love it?
Can you just take out one little part? Like can't
you just be friends with the president? Could you not
have the affair? I remember saying, Olivia Pope is going
to have sex on the White houval office desk in
the first season of this series, and if you don't
want that, then I'm not doing this series. I'm obsessed

(18:51):
with And then when we were shooting it, you know,
the chemistry with Carrie and Tony was crazy, Like I
was like that that scene in the Oval office at
the end, I was not expecting that much amazing chemistry.
I mean, Tony's so incredible and always scared, but I
just wasn't expecting it to be that like that fire,
you know, it was great. I remember showing up that

(19:14):
night just to watch the shooting of it, which I
was like, I think, I think we have to talk
about the whole pilot experience, but I think that scene
in the Oval where they make out and they're like
hiding where the cameras can't see them, that was our
last night of shooting, and I remember being like, I
just want to go because I just never want this
to end. And I remember being there behind the monitor
watching and it was you could hear. I mean, I'm

(19:37):
hiding like in the curtains, Like it was so intense,
so on, it was so on. All I wanted to
say is, how did you cast quinnin huck No, we'll
get that's good stuff, though, we will be back with
more after the break. Okay, So how did you cast

(19:57):
Olivia Pope? Like did a lot of people as for
that role. Well, let's be clear, and I don't think
I think I realized how a big of a deal
this was. But it was the first leading role for
a woman of color and a drama in like thirty
seven years or something. So one thing I was very
clear about was there are so many actresses who have
never gotten this shot, Like we're not turning anybody away,

(20:18):
Like if you were of Note, we are not turning
you away. So it felt like it was this like
march of like fifty of some of the most incredible
actresses I've ever seen showing up at our office, and
it was amazing to watch. It also broke my heart
because why should it have to be this way? And
you could only cast of one and I could only
cast one, and so it came down to Carrie and

(20:40):
you can only Rose and Jill Scott, three women who
could out be more different, be more different. Also would
love to see a show with the three of them.
But I loved them all and I loved everybody's performance
as Olivia Pope, I really did. And I just kept thinking,
like I would show my writing because I'm writing a

(21:01):
different show for each one of these women. It just
felt like it was going to fundamentally be different for
every for every woman. And in the end, I sat
down with Carrie and I remember thinking like she's too pretty,
like somebody that's powerful, like doesn't get get away with
being pretty, and I was, which was so wrong with me?
And then I sat out with Carrie and she talked
politics like nobody's business for like an hour, and I

(21:23):
got it entirely immediately. Yeah, that was the whole and
I get it. I mean, Carrie Washington is an alien
of remarkable beauty. It's like, yeah, no one looks like that. No,
no one looks like that, No one has bone structure
like that. I mean, she's gorgeous, and she's also incredibly

(21:43):
politically active and an activist and all these things that
really lined up for the perfect Olivia Pope. I mean,
this pilot, the amount of slow mowalking scenes in a
white coat is is the greatest. It just satisfies every
part of your being watching it is It's like it's

(22:06):
it's like the dream life in a way that you
want to live. Yeah. Hell yeah, Shanda, did the studio
and network know that Olivia Pope was a black woman
or no? When you wrote it? So I want to
be clear. When I went in to pitch this, I
told Channing, I said, and she's going to be black
because Judy Smith is black, and Channing just nodded, And
I don't I think like me, she didn't think his

(22:26):
channings a woman of color. I don't think she thought
like I better go warn everybody or anything like this
is not a problem. And so when they picked up
the pilot, the head of casting called me and was like,
Connie Britton would be the perfect choice for this role.
And I said, I adore Connie Britton and she would
be except Olivia Pope is black. And it was like
this long moment of silence. Wow, yeah, I was just

(22:51):
gonna bring up what you brought up before, like like
the casting process for the rest of the of the cast.
I remember for going in for Houck and I remember
getting this gides and being like super piste off that
I was even being considered for this because I think
the character was described as like in his like fifties,
like mid fifties. I was like, I was like thirty
nine at the time, and I was like, now I'm

(23:12):
fifty one, I'm like the new twenty like, but at
the time, I was like, what the fun they wanted?
Why you like, how dare you think I'm fifty? Yeah?
I just felt I wasn't right for I remember going
into the audition to to read for for you Shawnda
and for Linda Loewey, and I think there was somebody
else in the room and just being like gonna do
do my best, and and you wrote this like brilliant

(23:33):
monologue and the character was obsessed with like little figurines
that were all over his desk. I don't know if
you remember that. Yeah, I had to write something just
to cast the role because I didn't say much and
I knew that eventually he would. Yeah, I knew eventually
he would. So I wrote this monologue. Oh it was
so good. And then so I did the monologue and
then we just all kind of sat there in silence

(23:55):
for a minute, and you looked at me and said,
you're a very interesting actor. Like I remember that so clearly,
and I was like thank you, and then I left.
And then you know, another odd thing that happened with
casting you was that you you cast I think most
of us, at least me, after just one audition. There
wasn't a lot of fanfare. You you know, we didn't

(24:15):
test for it, but you just knew. And the fact
that you got this whole cast together that has such
amazing chemistry and it all just freaking was it was
so special, Like but I know Kate Katie's stories like
Katie stories crazy. But didn't you first tell her that
she didn't get it? So they called me in and
I think I'm going to test and they say, Shanda says, um,

(24:39):
you can see this on the behind the scenes DVD
of season that's right, that's right, see my audition. She
gave me the part and I cried, real, real, ugly cried,
and I loved it so much. It was like it
was like the most fun thing I ever got to
do is to deliver good news to somebody, you know.
It was just love. And then I said, what am

(25:01):
I supposed to do? When you said someone's going to
call you and there's going to be a wardrobe fitting
and there's going to be a table read, I was like,
there's gonna be okay. I didn't first tell her that
she didn't get it. What I said was she came
in to do the test, and then we brought her
in the room and we already had the camera rolling,
and I said, Kittie, you're you know, I just wanted

(25:21):
to let you know you're not going to be able
to test for this part. And she was like just
so politely, like like trying really hard, and you can
see her dying a little bit inside, and I was like,
you Gause, We're just gonna give it to you, and
she was like she's like went crazy. It was. It
was so much fun. I've never I mean, that's your
you know, you've won the lottery, you know you've here's

(25:43):
your car and your I mean it was insane. It
was so but even bigger than that because it had
been something I'd wanted and worked for. I think when
I was twenty three or something, I said to someone,
I just want to work with Shonda Rye, Like, oh
my god, my start. But Shanna, most actors have to
go through nine like like pre reads, callbacks, producers, tests,

(26:04):
different sides, different looks, where's something else? Come meet this person?
It is awful, and then you start to shoot the
show and there's like not really that much chemistry or
this show is not that great after all that bs,
you know what I mean, that's a good point. Yeah,
you put in all that work and then you're like,
uh no. For me, it was like I knew, and
I'm very honest, I knew when I saw you, like

(26:26):
what I was like, this is perfect, Like this is
exactly what I was looking for when I said same
with kat. I knew when I saw her that was
exactly what we're waiting for. And because she was newer, um,
the network was like she needs to test. And then
Linda Lolowe and I went at the network and we're like,
we're not doing it, Like we're not doing that, Like
the only person who's getting getting offered this part. I

(26:47):
used a lot of I'm not making this pilot a
lot to get what I wanted, which is not very mature.
I love it, and I talked about this all the time.
So for you listening, Shanda is usually not on set
because she's really busy writing. Were a new number of
other reasons, um, But for our pilot, which I think
took three two or three weeks to make, Shonda was

(27:08):
there for every single frame we shot nights, it was cold.
We were in a really dank, downtown cool place that
we then built and made into Olivia Pope and associates
on a stage. Do you have any what are your
memories from being there? For those I mean we were

(27:29):
up all night loopy, Yeah, yeah, I remember like one.
I remember being there to make sure everybody talked fast
enough you know what I mean. It was really my
big word is everyone's not going to talk fast enough.
And part of that talk fast enough was simply that
I had written a really long pilot. You were like,
y'all gotta talk quick. We're not cutting this out. Yeah.

(27:49):
I feel like the pace of this show, like the
pace of how these people live their lives. You know,
White House could be slower, but Pulpit Associates was like
this speeding thing, and I wanted to happen. I mean,
it was so interesting because I just met Paul mcwigan.
I didn't know him. I just had loved his pilot
Sherlock and the work he's done there, and we talked
for a long time. But I was also there to

(28:12):
like sort of go like, what what's he doing, what's
he choosing to do? What's the look going to be?
Because I really don't Yeah, I don't talk in visuals.
I really just you know, talking story and what I'm thinking.
And so to watch him translate that was great, you know,
it was really great experience. Yeah, I have in my
notes one of the one of the other characters on
the show was were these panels that are our DP

(28:34):
started to incorporate into shooting, do you remember, Katie. Like
we would do our traditional coverage of the scene and
then somebody would call out panels, and then they would
bring out these sort of beveled pieces of thick glass
and they would stand the characters be behind these glasses,
and the camera would sort of you know, travel, you know,
side side to side, and it just gave it this
like sexy, like sort of dangerous like look, yeah, voyeuristic. Ill, yeah,

(29:00):
that's so true. And the colors like what they created,
the dark blues and grays, and like it just seemed
really not poppy. It didn't seem bright at all. It
seemed sort of like underground, like all this stuff we
were going and gore and like you mentioned, Katie, are
are where we shot the pilot. It was this amazing
location in downtown l A. And there were these these

(29:22):
cracked pieces of of windows that which which now looking
back at the watching the show again, watching it back,
I was thinking, it's so symbolic of all the cast
of characters, right, because we're all cracked and broken and leaking.
Like I remember, we would have to put photos up
on those pieces of glass, and sometimes it was a
struggle because it was raining outside and they had to

(29:42):
figure out a way to get the pictures to stick
because there were all these cracks. And then they created
that on the stages. Oh, it was so wonderful. They
replicated that so beautifully. That freaks me out how well
they did that. Yes, Oh my god, everybody. And you
know what's cool. Everyone really stuck with it, like seven years.
I don't you know, we just really didn't have a

(30:03):
lot of turnover in terms of like head of wardrobe production,
Like everyone believed in it. And I don't know how
you built this team. I know you've talked about this
like a no asshole policy, but like it really felt
like the cast and the crew was just a machine.
Like we were so tight. We still are. I mean

(30:25):
it's really when I see someone from Scandal, like a
Mary Howard or Line producing or Tom Erricker producing director
or someone I'm emotional like I'm it really felt like
a family early on. How did you do that? One?
I think Betsy and I did our homework. At least
two people had to say you weren't an asshole for
us to hire you. At least to two outside people

(30:47):
had to vouch for like your personality or who you
were as a person, because you know, people are always
lovely to me, but then I find out that they're
horrible to the p A s or there. You know,
I'm like, that creates a bad set. And then we
had Mary Howard, who I've learned, if you want your
set to run the way you would run your set,

(31:07):
find somebody who shares the same mindset as you. And
Mary was all about creating like a family environment and
a comfortable environment for every working and making everybody feel valued.
And then we got Lin Paulo to do the costumes,
and she was already somebody that you know, I had
been really into and loving her work, and it was
great to get her too, So it was it was
just this nice building process. I still work with Lind

(31:29):
to this day. Everyone told me, because I was sort
of the baby that like, you know, you really better
enjoy this because this, you know, the Tony is and
the Jeff's like, this is this is rare. This is
lightning in a bottle. Like we've had very long careers
and we've moved from group to group and cast to cast,
and this is so magical. We used to get all

(31:51):
the press used to come up to us and be like,
come on, like each other, Come on, this cannot be real,
and I'm like, it is real. I don't know what
to tell you. We're obsessed with each other. We go
to events and we only talk to each other. We
don't even want to talk to anybody else. We also
had so many amazing moments outside of of shooting the show, Like,

(32:13):
we went to so many events, and one memory that's
that's stuck out. I think Katie and I talked about
this a few days ago, was we went to this
GLAD Awards event where myself, Katie, and Carrie were presenting
an award to you. Shanda was a GLAD Award. I
forget uh. And we had so much fun. And I

(32:35):
know the thing that sticks out for me is we
were after the awards. We were on the dance floor
just dancing it up with you and me and and
Katie and my boyfriend Mike was there and at one
point broke. I don't think I ever told you this, Katie,
or maybe I did, but at one point we're dancing
Shaunda and this dude sort of shimmy's up and saddles

(32:55):
up in front of me and starts dancing and he's
getting a little flirty and you walked up to him
and you said, he got a man. Do you remember that?
And I remember at that moment thinking, oh my god,
this is such a down woman, like she's got my back.
I loved it so much. But also cut to like
later on that night, me and Mike you had a

(33:16):
three something with that guy. Really, yes, yes, but but
me and Mike still talk about it to this day.
Mike adores you, and he was like, oh my god,
I fucking love Shawnda this. She did that and stepped
in and was like, no, he's got a minute. It

(33:38):
was so amazing. Um. So we do the pilot and
then we wait to hear about if we're going to
get a season one, and we get six episode order.
How did you feel about that? I was pissed. I mean,
I will just say that I was pissed. I was like,
did I not deliver you know, a hundred episodes of
scandal for I mean, grazing atomy for you? Did I
not give you a hundred episodes of private practice? Like?

(33:59):
Why the fuck? And I was mad? I was really mad,
but I was also like, it's gonna keep going. And
so we had fun writing it that season because we
knew that we were like sort of writing the hell
out of the show for our lives, like get it
all in there just in case. But I also loved it,
so I was like, they're gonna, they're gonna pick it up.
Do you remember when the show was called was it
when the show was called Damage Control? Remember that it

(34:24):
wasn't the real name though, that was the name you
put on spots. You know, I didn't know that either.
I thought damage Control was the name that just didn't
get approved by the studio or not. No idea. I
learned that after you know Gray's that after that that
we called that the entitled to Rmes project called Practice

(34:46):
the entitled Tomes Project, And I was like, I need
a name that doesn't have my name, and you know
what I mean, Like I wanted to try to build
it out. I think now all of our shows have
code names. When I had no idea that it, damage
Control was just like a placeholder. And I think Quinn
Perkins was Quinn Riley and Harrison wasn't Harrison, right? It
was Harrison. Yeah. It was once I got to know

(35:08):
you guys that I decided where your last names were
I love it. Can we can we talk about like
rewatching the show. Me and Katie keep texting each other
and we're like, oh my god, this show is so
freaking good. And but one one person that sticks out
for us is Columbus Short because he is like freaking
like magic on this show and it's just such a

(35:31):
thrill to watch him work, right, Katie, He's like genius
in front of the camera. Like I absolutely loved writing
for him and watching him work because he was he
was genius behind the camera. I mean in front of
the camera. The stuff he would do and it's just
the little tiny things were so great. Phone making A
did it like some sound with his Like he was

(35:51):
so musical and rhythmic, and which worked so well with
Scandal because you wrote such musical scripts where pace was
such a had such a musicality that he just leaned
into that and he had such a talent for that.
Huntil you were great. I remember watching you two the
first time doing that scene. It was great. I had
never been so nervous in my life, but you know,

(36:16):
he was nervous. He was very nervous. He was putting
on a front for me of being like I'm cool.
I'm cool, and I'm like, you are shipping bricks, dude,
Like this is Shonda Rhymes is sitting over there and
Betsy Beers is sitting over there, and I think they
have a stop watch and we need to be cool
and we need to get this and it was absolutely terrifying.
Is it true that did you audition Columbus or is

(36:38):
he like the one actor that did not audition? I
thought I had heard something about that. I feel like
he was offered it, but maybe I'm wrong. That's what
I had heard too. You know, I feel like he
came in an auditioned, or at least came in and
met Oh. I think I know that he came in
and then the like like everybody else, I just knew
that he was right. Yeah, we thought when we you

(37:00):
were Now that we're embarking on the Scandal rewatch podcast,
Unpacking the Toolbox, I'm so excited to hang out with
our Scandal family is really the point. And honestly, I'm
going to be real, real, honest right now, I was like,
the only thing I really don't want to do is
watch Scandal because I'm scared that I'm haveing to watch
something and I don't think I'm good or look at

(37:21):
what I used to look like, or look at it.
You know, you're just it's all wrapped up in actor
bull crap and like whatever. And I don't know if
it's going to be fun for me to do this.
I could not be more wrong. It's so much fun. Yeah.
I have experience of feeling like I've never actually seen
the show that everybody talks about because I was always

(37:41):
writing in or one episode ahead or editing one episode behind,
like and it was I was too worried about like
making everything perfect, so I couldn't really like I could
watch the show when we were all together and we
were like, you know, doing our Yeah, but I couldn't
watch it just like on my own, like it was
too much. And so when I sat down to watch again,
which was not that long. I'm probably right a little

(38:02):
bit before you started watching it again, it was surreal
because I could actually like see and enjoy the stories
that were told some of the some of the stories
have been so funny. I was like, that's what happened.
Oh my god, right to say when they say like
thorn Gate and like all these things, I don't even
think I understood what the hell was going on? Like

(38:25):
it's really this has been such a gift. This podcast
is such a gift, and all of you gladiators who
are listening right now, like, give yourself the gift of
going back and watching the show, or if you've never
seen it, tell a friend to watch it, because the
show holds up. It is better than all the shows.
And I'm taking myself out of it. I'm saying when

(38:45):
I just sit and watch like Carrie Washington and Tony
Goldwin do their thing. I mean, because what's cool about
the show. There's a white House half and there's an
opa A half, so I can you know, I'm watching
the show. I don't really remember the opay stuff. But
then there's a whole part of the show that I
have nothing to do with, and it so freaking good.
Oh my god, I can't believe what you made, Johonna.

(39:06):
I can't. But also you have to remember that, like
I had this the writing the writing staff for that
show was like every best writer I had ever worked with.
That was really what that was. How did you people
in johnn stay? They tend to stay because ay, they
know they're gonna have a job, but be like they
tend to stay because they I hope that they liked

(39:26):
it there. But what happened was is we'd have like
we'd have like Sevy who went to m I T
and was like telling us all the technical stuff we had.
We had a journalist Matt had been a journalist, you know,
on the press pool, and tell us all that stuff
and the things that that room came up with just
by themselves. I'd I'd leave and I'd come back to
the room and I'd be like, holy crap, that's amazing.
Like they just had a gift for building that show.

(39:49):
It was brilliant, brilliant minds that were just again sort
of like the cast, they just really and most of
them stuck with us. I mean when we when we've
been doing research on the show. In the series, I mean,
I'm reading names of writers and directors who you've taken
from a million episodes of Scandal. But then I worked
with most of them on inventing Anna, Like you know

(40:09):
what I mean. It's really um even even guest stars,
guest stars that came on Scandal. When I would do
research and google people for for the podcast and be like,
oh my god, they did a bunch of Grays episodes,
a bunch of Private Practice episodes like yeah, like you said,
they keep they you bring them back, it's and they
want to keep coming back. I like to work with

(40:29):
people who I like to work with, you know what
I mean, Like if I've had a great experience with you,
I mean I work with Jeff Perry like any day
of the week, every day. Yeah, you know what I mean?
Like so would all of us? Right, God, Mr Magood
that he had to play such a different character than
he played before and was like so amazing. Yes, And

(40:52):
him at the table reads he has like eight thousand glasses,
like he's near sighted and far sighted. I don't know
what's going on, and he has to hold his cell
phone as script test to be a certain way. But
the crazy thing is it all looks wild and then
you sit down for the table read and you're getting
a three D and fifty dollar ticket front row seed
to a Broadway show where is even his table read

(41:13):
acting is epic, epic and just absolutely incredible. I'm gonna
say this. I remember the episode where he gives that
long monologue to Fits about what's going to happen to
him if he lets go check out that pencil that
your father deaveut and you're gonna shoot yourself like that

(41:34):
whole thing, And I was I remember the table read
being like I wrote that, Holy sh it. I never
thought it was going to be that. Like, never it
was going to be that. I had a lot of
that with you guys, though. I had a lot of
experiences where I was like, they just elevated the material
in a crazy amazing way. How did you know that
monologues we're going to work on the show? I mean,
monologues are very rare. I I don't think I've ever

(41:56):
seen TV shows with the amount of you know, you
would have a character talk, single space page for to page,
you know, but in a lot of ways, because you
said everything so fast, it didn't make it work, because
there was none of that like overacting that people accidentally
do when they have a monologue, or the long pauses

(42:18):
that they think means something like you guys just threw
yourselves into it. We're so natural about it totally. Who
came up with the camera shutter sound, I don't even remember.
I think mcgwigan came up with it with the editor
in the editor directors cut. I'm pretty sure because it
was already there. It was already there when I got it.
I'm pretty sure you have to ask Scott Collins, who

(42:39):
does all our post production. He will remember exactly. Oh,
we have to have him on, we have to have
him on. But that is so iconic whenever I heard like, yeah, yeah,
did you know the music was going to be like seventies? Yeah,
Like it was the music I was listening to while
writing the pilot. I listened to a lot of Stevie
Wonder and I listened to a lot of ARMETHA. Franklin

(43:00):
and I don't know, Like Washington is such a it's
such a political city, but it's also like a very
black city, do you know what I mean? Like the
population of people of color is huge, And it felt
like there was like that was the soul of Washington
to me, Like it felt well and it resonated me.
And I enjoyed using that music. And I love how
the music sort of plays against what's happening on screen,

(43:22):
you know what I mean, Because Huck will be Huckey
Quinn will be torturing someone you're hearing, you know, like
be like yeah, like the Temptations or whatever. So it
works so so well no. We would always say when
we would start to like solve a case at O
T A, I would always be like at ther or

(43:42):
like very superstitious, you know, just be like like this
is what's going to come on right now. And it
was so iconic. I think I use literally every last
one of Cebe Wonder songs in the show, and almost
without without with the exception of like her True like
gospel Church singing, every last one. I read the Franklin songs,
are you kidding? I love that? Didn't Stevie Wonder write

(44:06):
something specifically for Scandal At the very end, he wrote
the song for the finale. And when you keep talking
about the finale, I will come back on and tells Wonder,
which was insanely amazing. I mean, just to do You're
gonna have to come on and tell us about the
ending of the show. We'll be right back, guys. Things

(44:31):
that were in the middle of the seven years get
a little mushy, and I'm so excited to be watching
these episodes again to remind myself of what was going on.
But what stuck so much in my head is the pilot.
I can it's and then the finale. I just remember
so much about the beginning and the end of this show,
and a few episodes I remember really vividly, um, just

(44:54):
really vividly UM. That episode so dear to me and
I I was so proud of it and the way
it came out and the work everybody did. That was
a big one. Yeah. That was another one that you
came to set and you sat on set for those
monologues that every character did to to Huk and I

(45:15):
remember all of us being like, well, I was like,
I just got to sit on the ground and keep repeating.
Y'all got to remember, like you know, f you, I
got my monologue at six pm the night before and
I was first up. I used to take hits like
that all the time. But honestly, I was so I
was like I can do it. Like I can do it,
you know. Like they used to call me the closer

(45:37):
because I was the youngest, and they would give me
the like eleven pm scene on a Friday night. Didn't
give that to Jeff, give it to me. I can
do it. I can do it. But Shaunda, what were
your other episodes that you that sort of stick out
the remember Um the trail Um to oh eight Happy birthday, Mr. President,
where we shot the President. Oh my gosh, that was

(45:59):
one of my most favorite things that we did, just
because of what I got to do with the information
of what happens when the president is shot, and because
of just the paint it played out for everybody, which
was so great, and what happened to talk and all
that stuff. White Hats back on, which was the finale
of season two where at the end she says, Dad, Dad, Yeah,

(46:21):
remember that the public reading we did during while the
finale was airing. We did you guys did a reading
like in front of an audience. Yeah. Every single person
that I've talked to that was in the audience that night,
who was like friends or family or Adam, my husband,
they remember it as one of the most special and

(46:42):
out of body like theater experiences they've ever had. When
we were reading the script, Joe Morton, Olivia Pope says
dad to pop U Pope and came out of their seats.
I remember that. I remember Debbie Allen being like, oh
Dee Allen's up and the audience was screaming, pointing at us.

(47:03):
We were pointing at them. Everybody was screaming. I lost
my voice for like a month. It was so great
and so special. I also remember the abortion episode. Oh,
that's on my list, that's on my list. That's that
Christmas episode. Babe, it's cold outside. That was my It
was but also because of what like it was our

(47:25):
Christmas episode and we got to watch Mellie filibuster and
like it just felt like we were already women in
so many different ways. It was great, And because you know,
I feel like I write a show where I'm deconstructing
what love is, like I'm trying to rip the lid
off the fairy tale. And what's funny is is that
everybody buys the fairy tale when I tell it every time,

(47:46):
and then when I ripped the lid off, and they're like,
what do you mean? He isn't happy? Like did you
not see the way he treats her? Like stuff? And
also that's real life, right, Like real life isn't tied
up in a pretty bow. Yeah. No, they're not fairy tales.
It's just not fairy tales. Randy read super freaking Julia.
Do you remember that one that was That was when

(48:07):
Olivia comes back and you have, first of all, you
have the Harrison's funeral um hawk is working as like
an Apple genius or something. That's right. That's right, Katie.
Your character was the only one trying to like pull
everybody together. Yes, I remember that you would become like

(48:28):
a mini Olivia. Pope, you become like a mini Olivia.
I loved that episode. That made me really happening. I
can't wait to get to all these episodes. I can't
even stand it. On chair, run chair and run when
she gets unapped. That was amazing episode. The guest stars
and the stories that you tell us a little bit

(48:53):
about how you always felt, and we always felt like
you you in the writer's room more ahead of the
news cycle, like why would you write something? And then
some ship would happen and we would be like wait what, Well,
part of that is that, like the people in my
room were crazy intelligent, and so they would they would
like extrapolate something to its extreme degree and be like,

(49:13):
what if there was this thorn Gate thing that was
spying at everybody through their computers in their phone And
we were like, that can never happened, and so he
was like, technically it can, and tell us all why
I could, and then we'd do it. And then literally
we'd find out that that's something that actually happened. They
unveiled that they had done something like that. There were
so many times that happened, with so many different stories,

(49:33):
and it was so weird to us because we felt
like we were making up the crazies stuff we could
think of, and then it was just yeah, it got
when we had to. We were making up like crazy
presidential candidates, and then that stuff happened. But yes, yes,
Hollis Doyle, it was great. You know, we've we've heard

(49:54):
some of your most memorable episodes of the series. But
she and I have some questions that came up from
watching the pilot. First of all, where does gladiator in
suit come from? I made that up. I made that up.
I just love the way it sounded, and one day
in my head I was like glad and like it
just sounded good to me. What I loved was how
we got to like put that information down and that

(50:15):
we told the story through the eyes of Quinn. What
was important about that was nobody who was watching the
show knew anything about this world, you know what I mean.
They didn't know what a fix, they didn't know how
any of it worked, and so we had a new
person there to learn everything for us, which I thought
was really important. Did Judy Smith say things I trust
my gut or is this stuff you also made up?

(50:37):
Judy Smith says, trust your gut. Your gut will tell
you everything you need to know. That was one of
the first things I wrote down in my notes from
my meeting with her. That's the thing she always said.
She said that, and she said stand in your truth.
Those are the two that I always held onto. Yeah,
never like don't lie. It's that same thing, don't lie.
I never tell a lie. Yeah, And then I loved
like and it's I don't know if it was aired

(50:58):
in the broadcast show because it was too long, but
made them put it in for the DVD. In any
subsequent errings, Huck basically says to her, you know, we're
all damaged. You know, like everybody here is damaged to like,
get used to it, and I've seen that. Yeah, that
was one of my favorite scenes. And when I loved
about it wasn't just told you who everyone was like.
And when I wrote that scene, I was just gonna say,

(51:19):
he says, we're all stray dogs. That's right. Oh my god.
What I loved about that was when I wrote it,
I wasn't thinking as much about that, but the minute
I wrote that line, I was like, Oh, what are
what's everybody's problems? Like, how did they come to a living?
Everyone's from the misfits, everyone's from and boy did you deliver?
Did you give it to us? And that whole speech

(51:43):
that Olivia gives to Amanda Tanner. You think she's this
lovely person and then she just decimates her and you
see what her job really is. She's the devil. It's horrible.
She's the one who she needs to make things happen.
She's the person who handle stuff, so she has to
handle it whatever way works. And I just remember like
the devastation on Quinn's face and the way it was shocked. Yeah,

(52:04):
I had no idea that scene was like that. I
remember being like, oh, you know, my your line, your line,
your line, my line. I didn't work that hard on
that scene because I don't have any lines, which is
the worst doctor ever. I understand that. I remember standing
back there and Liza, you know, she's so good at
being emotional, and she's working on her so upset, and

(52:26):
you know, Carrie has this this epic monologue that you
were talking about about, Oh, this is a nice dog.
And then she goes through like, oh that stint where
your mom was in the nuthouse and it would be
easier and better for you if you just got the
hell out of here type of thing. And then I
remember Paul coming up to me and being like, this
is obviously my acting wasn't that great, but he came

(52:47):
up to me and said like, this is shut out said.
He basically was like, we are understanding the stakes of
this scene and how fucked up this is through you
and your eyes. And I was like, oh, I do
at her lap. And then Olivia does the SloMo in
the white jacket from Lynn Palo and gets on the

(53:09):
phone and she just says it's handled, and then it
goes to Quinn's face and she just is like I
can't even believe I'm working for this woman. She's this
is this is all like that she's kind of the
devil but also the hero. Which is how the fact
that was an exterior scene and that everybody, everybody, Bob Woodward,

(53:30):
everybody was like, when are you in DC shooting the show?
And I was like, We're never in DC shooting the show.
That's all fake and how amazing did that department do.
Like people would come up to us all the time
and be like, Yo, when are you guys going to
be in d C again? Why are you here? Don't
you guys shoot the show in d C? And we'd
always be like, no, it's all green screen and that

(53:50):
that team that did that, that work was just stellar.
I mean, yeah, people really Washingtonians really believe we're shooting
in d C. And I remember, I mean, my favorite
thing that we got to do was, Hey, it's awesome
to have a job where you get to right inter
your white House and then they build you a white house.
I literally played in the Oval Office for like a

(54:10):
billion years. But even better was like writing like the
interior resident on the White House Residents, and then like
the Balcony and we got to go to the White
House and film what it actually looked like from the
balcony and you've never been done before, which was so cool. Wow.

(54:32):
I thought we didn't shoot the show in d C
because when we did go there, it was so cold.
We would complain about being in Wildcats and it being
so hot, But honestly, I prefer that to the one
episode we didn't you see where I was holding gear
mos ears from become from the Huck's ears from turning
into icicles. Also, you could have never shot the show
there Scandal. The cast of Scandal, I could hide, but

(54:56):
it was like you were a beatle when we got
when the cast of Ndal got dropped into d C,
or when Shawanda Rhymes gets dropped into d C and
you're on a political show. It was crazy watching the
reactions there. That was amazing. One of the best things
Form for me was like I was I was all
about a shooting in l a everything because I had kids,
People had kids, people, and it's the show went on,

(55:18):
people had more and more kids, and I just felt
like people's lifestyle should not be like standing in the
middle of Washington, d C. In the middle of the
night hoping you can get home at somebody. And it
was It wasn't only like fans on the street or
fans that watched the show. It was it was like
people in d C. Like when we went and met
like Obama and the first Lady Michelle Obama, like her

(55:38):
hearing her tell me and tell all of us. Oh
my god. I was just watching an episode as they
were doing my hair and makeup. I was like, what,
like the people that were in that world we're watching
our show. It was so surreal to me, so surreal
that like actual washingtony and people. I mean I remember
George Bush Jr. Calling up Jatie Smith and saying, you know,

(56:02):
we didn't really have an affair, right, and like them
laughing about it. Yeah, I was. My mind was blown.
My mind was blown that. Oh my god. I think
it was such a gift that we sort of Also
that scandal was sort of a slow burn that people
caught onto the show. I mean, it really wasn't It

(56:23):
was very helpful. I think we got to a place
where we weren't this like overnight thing, so we had
sort of but we were obsessed with the show and
doing a good job and doing the best we could,
and we got to really make it in this sort
of bubble where people weren't looking. And then by the
time everyone started looking. I can remember being on red
Carpet and they would say, like, what does it feel

(56:44):
like to be on a hit show? Like wait are
we Like? I just was so like, what right? Because
it was such a slow burn. It was such a
slow burn. But also, yeah, I feel like Katie, Like
none of us ever got cocky about it, Like no
one ever got cocky. Every season we'd be like, oh
my god, I hope we get picked up. It was
never like we're we're working in like this is whatever.

(57:06):
We're a hit, this ship, We're the best we wanted to.
How do you think, like everyone says the show why
it was so magical a lot, is that because our
lead showrunner, Boss Shawnda Rhymes, and our lead actor Carrie

(57:29):
Washington are number one, the two of you. You know,
ship rolls downhill and that just never happened on our show.
How did you and carry make a world where that
was the case for so long? Because everyone would say
in the beginning, wait till season four, you're all going
to funciate each other, Like do you remember on the
pilot the first day we ever shot the show. On

(57:50):
the pilot, we're on the Graves anatomy set street in
the hospital scenes, and you said, or maybe it wasn't
the pilot, maybe it was episode two. No, I think
it was pilot. It was the pilot. And yeah, you say,
I'm never ever going to be like going to not
be grateful, And I remember pulling out my phone and
being like, can you say that again into my camera.

(58:11):
I was so sure that like in four years she
would be like complaining about her trailer or something. We
none of us were like that, none of us, I really,
but yes say it. So I was just gonna say.
Carry would do stuff like, uh, when we were done
shooting a scene, she would stop everyone and ask for
silence and thank all the background, thank our crew. Like

(58:34):
the stuff that that Carry would do just made the
sets so special and so inviting and so warm and kind,
and that's so rare, you know. I think, in my opinion,
I feel like and I don't remember that Carry actually
said this to me or not, but this is what
I assumed that she had been on a lot of
sets and seeing all kinds of behavior and knew when
when it was good and when it was bad, Like
knew the feeling because if you're like just starting out,

(58:56):
you know what that feels like when something number one
is horrible and sort of had bowed to never be
bad number one. And also I think she felt the
entire weight of the pressure of being like the first
black lead actress in a drama and not wanting that
to be like and she was a bit, you know,
I thought about that. And she was just a lovely

(59:19):
person to begin with, but she really worked hard to
remain humble and to keep everybody around her like feeling
good about what they were doing as well, to make
sure it felt like a group effort. The fact that
she never complained about those fucking shoes, I would have
lost my mind, like for seven years cramming her little
foot into six in shy heels. I but Shanna, you

(59:40):
never you were always the same. You and Betsy would
call these meeting, we would do table reads and then
you would say, okay, I'd like all the actors to
stay after for ten minutes, to which we would all
be like, oh my god, oh my god, we're in trouble.
Please dont let us be in trouble. But we would
sit there and you would always say it would be like,
you know, if anything comes up, or you want to
talk about anything, or we should be your first call.
Like I never had somebody look in the middle of

(01:00:02):
the night like you need help. Someone gets in next
and somebody to like, calm us, let us help you.
We are all in this together. And it was just
seemed like a very supportive I don't know. I learned
so much. I think you've sent us all out into
our other jobs to really expect nothing less than the
behavior and the vibe that we created for ourselves on

(01:00:24):
that show. I feel really lucky because I had the
experience of never working in TV before writing a show
and having it be like a crazy out of the
box hit where all of these actors became famous overnight
and chased by paparazzi and stuff, and that was great,
and I didn't I didn't know how to handle any
of that, you know what I mean. Like, I learned

(01:00:45):
that through the process of like working there every day,
and it was great to be able to bring that
knowledge to the table, you know, and say this is
what it is. And that was so much. It just
made it so much better. I want to also credit
Mary Howard, because really the line producer really does have
everything to do with the feel and the atmosphere on
a set, and I think that she was incredibly valuable

(01:01:07):
in that process. Yes, and you were also like, this
show is so important and your health is so important.
But you all and Mary Howard were also like, and
your families are super important. Like it was always like,
you know, she was working, if someone was going through
anything at home, or you know, people had things going on.
She was very much She's a very family oriented. I

(01:01:27):
think every press on the show, I think that was
the thing. Like she was family oriented, we were family oriented.
It felt normal, it really did. Um is there anything
in closing? Can you please come back on the Scandal
Rewatch podcast? Whatever you guys want me to like? I
love this, I love that you're doing it. I'm well,

(01:01:49):
I think it's going to give I think that our
gladiators who have been just laying dormant for years, looking
for a place to go and geek out and wear
their gladiator shirts and drink out of their gladiator ups
and eat their popcorn and wine and rewatch the shows
and tell people who haven't seen it to sit their
asses down and go watch it. And it's been such
a gift to Gammo and I to go back and

(01:02:10):
watch this show beyond I think for I think for
like Gladiators, I always just want to say, like Gladiators,
like this is where you're going to get the inside scoop,
you know, like stuff that was that we've never talked about. Yeah,
don't you want to know that Garmo Diaz had a
threesome the night that we've presented Shonda Rhymes with her
glad Award. That's amazing. Everyone didn't know things we didn't know.

(01:02:37):
So since Twitter was such a massive thing for Scandal, Shawonda,
We're going to finish this episode and do this in
many episodes by reading some of the best tweets surrounding
the Scandal momentetet, tweet at the time, tweets at the time, Yeah,
tweets at the time. On April four, in two thousand twelve, actually,
Shonda Rhymes tweeted, this is the best ad for scan ever,

(01:03:00):
thank you for the Scandal cake. And it's a picture
of a cake and they actually drew Carrie Washington on
the cake and it says, my gut tells me everything
I need to know. Watch Scandal Thursday's ten at ten.
Who made that cake? Remember, had no idea. It literally
just appeared in her office as again, shut up, and
we were so excited by it. And then and then

(01:03:23):
you tweeted again, Shawanda. A few minutes later or later
that day, the Grace Anatomy Scandal writers couldn't take it.
They had to eat the Scandal cake and it's a
picture of half of the cake gone. Yeah. I was like,
let's just preserve it as this beautiful thing, and then
he just had to eat it and it looks delicious.

(01:03:43):
It was quite good. I think everybody thought it was
quite good. That's hilarious. Then you also tweeted on April twelve,
Gender Rhymes tweeted, meet at Judy Smith, the woman behind
at scandal abcs Olivia Pope, and get your copy of
her new book Good Self, Bad Self at Amazon. Wow.
When we already had this shirt, Marco, who is a

(01:04:06):
who is a key player at Shondalan Mark Marco Esquivel
already posted a picture of gladiator and sweatshirts and it
was a sweatshirt picture that says do you want to
be a gladiator in a suit? We were all ready
having marches. We were having march from the beginning, which
is crazy. And can you talk about how they named
us our fans became our gladiators, right, Like someone on

(01:04:29):
Twitter just ran with that and then all of a
sudden it was like the Gladiators and that's that's that's so.
That was such a memorable moment, right, and that that
has stuck around too because people will still come up
to me on the street now and be like, yeah,
I'm a Gladiator, I'm a Gladia. Oh yeah, I get
that all the time. What I loved about that, and
I thought was so at the time, especially Twitter, was

(01:04:52):
about the fans coming together and deciding things like now.
I think they put out like for other shows, they
put out like tested hashtag, which I didn't understand, like
we we don't didn't decide the hashtags. Yeah, they came
up with Huckleberry Quinn, they came up with yes, got
our job. No, it's their community. I forget. Was it

(01:05:14):
your idea or Carry's idea for all of us to
be on Twitter? I think that Carry I remember correctly.
I think Carrie came to me and said it would
be really cool if we all got on Twitter and
tweeted the shows. And then I remember then she said
like that and like backed away, and then I remember
staying at a table and being like, you're all going
to get on Twitter. We're gonna help you do something.

(01:05:34):
And we did. We were like, we gotta get on Twitter.
But once again, as usual, Carrie was right. It was right,
she was right, She was right. Do you remember, do
you remember us following I started following everybody on Twitter, Katie,
like even like fans. I was like follow and but
now you know you can't do that. But but I
remember fans. We had no idea what we were doing.

(01:05:55):
We sent Jeff Perry out onto Teter and I did
did great, great without I'm like sitting next to Jeff
being like this is how you do it? Or Joe Morton,
I mean people, and they came up with their own
sort of Twitter personalities, like Joe Morton tweeted sort of
like popa Pope, these like very like cryptic big posts. Um,

(01:06:20):
my favorite Twitter thing that ever happened wasn't I don't.
I don't know that anybody else really knows this, But
Scott Foley had been playing Jake, this bad guy for
a while and the audience hated him and he didn't
complain about it or anything, but like the tweets were
clearly the audience just wanted him dead. And so I
wrote this episode where he gets thrown into that the

(01:06:41):
basics certain, the whole or whatever, and you know, and
then Olivia comes in because it's like the president thinks
that he killed his son, and then Olivia comes in
and he gives a speech that like he says, it's
okay if you don't choose me, and then he gives
her the number of the account that he wants her
to get the money to his mom and all the stuff.
And I literally, I'm needs got sick with me. And
like when the scene came on, I was like, watch

(01:07:02):
your Twitter feed, just watch it. Like I was like,
it's gonna go from I hate this dude to oh
my god, Jake is amazing. And it literally happened just
like that. It took three minutes. Twitter to entirely change
its too, and I was like, Twitter is a powerful,
powerful force. It was past tense. If your character was
against Olivia Pope, you were getting Twitter death threats, or

(01:07:24):
if your character was coming at all in the middle
of fits and Olivia you are my god. That was
so crazy. It was just it was a movement. It
was just. But then people like Oprah Winfrey and like
bet Middler's and Rihanna started tweeting also about this show.
Mariah Carey ya, and we were like, what is happening.
Prince Once put on a suit and send a picture

(01:07:46):
of himself that said gladiator in a suit. You know,
that didn't, I'm would send it to you because I
have a because I went, you know, Prince was everything.
He also sent me a list of songs that would
be okay for me to use on the show. Did
you ever use one? Yes? When well, it's so sad
because when Prince died, I did an episode that was
all my whole the whole night of television that Thursday

(01:08:08):
night was all Princes. Yeah. Man, that is the loveliest thing.
I mean when that's how we also started to feel like, oh,
the show is happening when someone would come into work
and be like, did you see Like Rihanna tweeted that
she's watching the show. I can remember being it carries
l women in Hollywood dinner and I was sitting next

(01:08:30):
to him mom, and she was like, my husband and
I sit and we watched the show. I'm like, are
you talking about David Bowie? David Bowie is sitting and
watching Scandal. I mean, this is crazy. I freaked out
when when Mrs Obama and the President were like, like,
we have some we have some things to tell you
about the show about the White House, because Mrs Mom

(01:08:54):
was like, you're not getting it right. You gotta get
it right and it was great. She was like, this
is what the private residents look like. This is where
the stairs are like, this is like, this is how
the White House is set up. Show me how we
were making the door using the doors incorrectly, like doing
the window panes on the doors incorrectly, and I came
back to change them. Yeah, oh my god, that is amazing.
My god, this show man, the things we learned on it,

(01:09:16):
that people it brought together. Shanda, thank you for being
the first guest on the Scandal Rewatch podcast. I will
show up for you anytime, you know. I love you, guys,
Scandal fan. So yeah, Scandal, that's right, yea for life
and we love you. Thank you for writing this show

(01:09:38):
that turns out when you watch it all over again,
it's still great. Yeah, thank you, thank you. Of course,
it's our pleasure. You kidding. O. God, I'm just so
we're so filled up that I need to keep going

(01:10:00):
with my gladiator. Right, I'm gonna pour some whiskey in
my Emma. It's only ten fifteen. Is that too early
to have a shot to move? No, it's also a Thursday.
I don't know what that means. But here's another sea,
it's t G I T I'll have you all this
that the first episode is going to rewatch podcast. I'm
packing the toolbox with guests Shanna Rhymes. Was recorded on

(01:10:20):
a fucking Thursday, and Katie has a shirt that says
hashtag T G I t oh and we're drinking out
of our gladiator cups. And I cannot remember for the
life of me. What was the name of the made
up wine on Scandal? Oh, I don't know. I knew
Betsy Beers would know this. See this whole This whole

(01:10:40):
podcast is not about me texting people, but it is
because I want to find out the correct things I wrote.
Sorry about you so early doing Scandal podcast. What was
the fake made up name of the wine? Again? Because
I'm going to pretend to drink it on the podcast.
It was shot to move to Pop and it was
called Chateau do Ballet, which is complete bullshit and not
made up. I love that Betsy. Remember that Bets knew
that well because she was the person who they went

(01:11:03):
She's she's she knows a lot about fancy wine. And
I think the story goes is like the writer's weom
reached out to her and was like what would be
a really fancy, insanely priced bottle of wine that Olivia
Pope drinking mine this morning is cranberry juice that's old
as fuck and I found in the back of my
and Carrie never drank cranberry juice onunset. She drank grape juice,

(01:11:25):
really right, I don't know whatever had the less sugar. Yeah,
I think her fake wine was grape juice, which I
think she like loved. I remember carry being like this
crape juice is so delicious. I love this. But Yo,
this Scandal Rewatch podcast, you guys better to tell your friends,
because it's fire. We have every single guest, an amazing

(01:11:47):
person you could want who start on Scandal or start
behind the scenes on Scandal, some secret guests coming up
that you are not going to want to miss. You're
going to get all the scoop on the scoop from
behind the scenes at parties and h Gary and I
are so grateful to have this show and it's been
such a gift and we're so excited to be on

(01:12:07):
this ride with you guys, and we love you and
we want you guys to get hooked on rewatching the
show like we are now Oh my gosh. Everyone tune
in next week to episode one oh two of Scandal,
Dirty Little Secrets. We all got him, We all got him.
Better tell somebody. But thank you guys for joining us

(01:12:32):
on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe,
share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review.
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcha, Lauren Holman,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince to Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Scandal is
a production of ABC Signature, and you can follow along

(01:12:53):
by rewatching Scandal on Hulu. Unpacking the Toolbox is a
production of shondalan Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart
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