August 17, 2023 • 51 mins
Everyone wants to know-- who is the mole?? Katie and Guillermo unpack this plot-heavy episode with legendary producer, Betsy Beers. Betsy's executive produced every Shondaland hit series and is a wealth of Scandal lore, including insight into how the show got started and her close relationship with Shonda Rhimes. Betsy was the host of the original Scandal podcast with her co-host Shonda, back before podcasting was cool. This episode was recorded on May 31, 2023.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded prior to the SAG After Strike.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with Iheartradiots.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
And Katie Tho.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I'm watching the episode that we're talking about today, and
I'm like, do you remember conversation Shonda would have where
it's like they would give such shit about sexual stuff
on the show, but like violence or death was like
fair game?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Did it matter? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
And I'm just like refreshing myself on the end of
season two, which is where we're currently at. There's just
guns held at people's heads.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
All the time, ye constantly.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Yeah, motherfuckers are eating donuts right before they were about
to get shot.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Abby's holding a gun.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm holding a gun, and Charlie's holding a gun at
David Rosen, and then Jake Ballard has a gun because
he's about to take down Charlie. It's just like Rice,
why don't we And Adam Adam just did like the
top gun thing. He just did John Wick prequel series,
which is literally gun porn. It's like, how many fucking
(01:26):
things can we fucking light up?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:29):
What is that?
Speaker 5 (01:30):
I haven't seen any of the John Wicks, but I
hear there's somebody just went to see it a friend
of mine and said it was super violent. And it's
like one of the most popular franchises. Right, there's like
what five part five now or four?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I don't even know.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Fast and the Furious. I have no idea what's going on.
I've never seen You're right, it's like porn yea. And
my son is like obsessed. He is, but yeah, he
just is like, you know, I want swords, I.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Want I want shields.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Everything is good guy, bad guy. Did you play like
that when you were a little kid or no?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
No, I played with like a Donald Duck doll that
you would press his hands and he would walk, his
legs would move. You would press his right hand and
his left leg would move. Typical fucking gay shit. Like
I loved all the dolls. I loved all the superhero
dolls and Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck all that stuff.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
Have you been in real fights in your life?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Just like two? But I don't like it, and I'm
not good at it at all.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
I'm not I get very scared, like I'll defend myself,
but I'm still super I don't like it.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I don't like it like did you get ever get
hit or hit someone in the face, like when you
were a kid growing up.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
I've never done that.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
I did once I did. I hit someone in the face,
and I've been hitting the face.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
Was it terrible.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, it was almost like I blacked out. Like afterwards,
I was like, I don't even remember doing that. It
was just like a reflex to Yeah, you know, I
was just being.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Protect yourself with fight or flight, like you went into
like animalistic mode.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
But then it stopped. It didn't. It was like a
continued fight.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
I would have friends that would be fighting on the
street for like fifteen minutes, like taking their shirts off,
like let's go, like taking you know, their shoes off.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I was like, what are you people doing?
Speaker 6 (03:09):
Like, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I remember in high school the girls fighting like way
worse than the guys. The girls like fucking ripping their
out and fucking dreads and shit out of their hair.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Bad bad like black girls. I mean, I said, I
blacked out, but girls black the fuck out.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
They don't care. You can't pull them apart O.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
Can this like not happen to my kids?
Speaker 7 (03:31):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Fighting, fighting is bad, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
But they're still fucking doing it. I think they are.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Well, and then you know, we're brought up, especially boys,
being like, fuck, you gotta fight, defend yourself, you gotta
learn how to fight, learn a fight, fight. You know,
it becomes like this thing that you feel you need
to be good at, or that it's a good thing
that you could beat somebody up.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Like that's not good. It's fucking you, it's not good.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
But also like why even let it get to that?
And I was kind of lucky to I was sort
of friends with everyone. I don't know how, but I
was like a theater girl and I was on the
dance team and a few things. But I think being an adult
is so much harder because my anxiety. I didn't have
that as a kid, and now it's worse than it's
ever been, Like my real life worries everyone, kitty.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Do you ever think I think back on the times
when I first started acting and doing plays and everything
and having no anxiety whatsoever. I was fearless, And I
think back on those times and I'm like, wow, like
I wish I could feel that again, you know what
I mean. And of course there's fleeting moments when you
feel that way, but you're right, there's so much crap
(04:37):
that we're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
There's just real life worries, like I didn't worry, like
and look, that is such a fucking privilege, Like obviously
I wasn't worried about food or like rent or like
you know, because there are kids that have those fucking
worries of course.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Which is awful.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
And did you say food? You know?
Speaker 6 (04:57):
We have to talk to Betsy about that. She we
used to host the Scandal podcast.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, I was thinking about that earlier.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, And I want to ask her all about like
how did she first hear that that the meeting went
great and like come on board?
Speaker 6 (05:10):
And was she into it from the start?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And then we had to talk to her all about
reading stage directions scared.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Yes, I thought about that too, yes, yes, yes, and
she was.
Speaker 6 (05:18):
A comedian and an actress yes in New York.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, start Betsy Beers. Yeah, I feel like always
say that I love it so much.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
I do not as much as I love your last
name Beers, because I would love four right now?
Speaker 8 (05:38):
Who wouldn't And it's totally what eleven o'clock here, Where
are you? Garma? Are you? I'm in La so morning drinking,
which is the.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Best, right right, because we're coming out at the time
of this recording of a three day weekend.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
He we just are feeling very like, whoa, we really.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Had a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday situation and our brain's
not firing, probably a level that Betsy Beers.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
Is no minus minus a big sleepy pile of poo.
What's fun about this episode two is it's the episode
before the last episode, which, like I remembered really well
because we did that table.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Read yes in front of a live audience, Yeah, in.
Speaker 8 (06:15):
Front of a live audience, and when we gave the
last line, which I'm not going to give away for
anybody who hasn't seen the show, which probably makes no
sense because everybody listens to this like, gosh, I hope
you've you've seen the show, but that there's that last line.
And I remember, because I was doing stage directions.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
We were in were we at the Doldie.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
It was some scary, weird situation, big theater. It was
a big theater, right, and I remember we all had
to stop because the screaming. Just for anybody who doesn't
know what the hell I'm talking about, I don't blame you.
So we did a season finale table read. I think
it was for charity.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
I think it was for charity too.
Speaker 8 (06:53):
Yeah, we did this table read and they were about, oh,
I don't know, four or five hundred people there, and
obviously the actors had already shot it, so we all
knew it was yeah, yeah, yeah, which often, by the way,
we didn't we don't.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (07:07):
But it was one of the most amazing experiences I've
ever had because I got to the last line, which,
as we all know, is Dad. None of these people
had seen the episode. We literally did it right as
the episode was airing. I remember we just we all
just sat there and look at each other. Yeah, while
people were sweating and screaming and running up and down
the aisles, and it was pretty great.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
It was insane.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I remember Debbie Allen jumping out of her seat like
a mad woman and cheering, and I'm like, and she's
in Shondaland, and even she was like, oh my.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
God, yeah, she must not have known. It was so crazy.
But Betsy, tell our listeners two things. One, you used
to host the Scandal podcast.
Speaker 8 (07:49):
It was called Scandaled Revealed, and I forced every single
one of these poor actors to be on it, like
eight hundred times over the course of the period of
the show.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
You knew before like podcasts are obviously such a thing now,
But my god, Betsy, you were hosting correct if I'm wrong,
was a grace.
Speaker 8 (08:09):
Then we did Scandal, then we did Shondaland Revealed, and
then people became tired and had to lie down, so
I got out of it, and then of course it
got really popular so I can do my FM.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
It just means that Betsy is always at the beginning
of the bell curve. She knows what's hot before everyone
else knows what's hot.
Speaker 8 (08:29):
For timing's so good that she gets out just when
it gets hot.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
Oh that is not.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
The case now wait listen, but I remember everyone talking
about going on the Scandal Revealed podcast, And look, Betsy
is you're so famous in life and in in Shondaland for.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Just well you were an actor.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Tell us, like, yes, you're the greatest, one of the
most prolific producers in all of television history.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
And you were an.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Actor in a comedian, which makes you amazing at hosting
pot and the best stage direction reader at a table
reader that's ever existed. So tell us what you did
on the podcast. Originally start there.
Speaker 8 (09:11):
Okay, so on the podcast. Originally, the first podcast we
did was Gray's Anatomy. I think I don't remember if
it had a catchy name, except it was Shonda and
me and it was like, I don't know if it
was season two or season three. But we started doing
this because in those days, not that many people were
doing podcasts, and everybody was really excited with hers anatomy,
(09:31):
and Shanda, believe it or not, at that period of time,
didn't talk as much. She was not that vocal. All
she was doing was kind of working, and everybody sort
of wanted to know was in her brain. And so
we started doing this thing where we would start every
podcast night she'd go, I'm Shanda, and I go I'm Betsy,
and we'd go, and this is Gray's Anatomy. And then
we would I would just ask a bunch of questions
(09:53):
or I'd say, oh, man, this week was really hard.
You know, can you believe this week? This week just
was so hard, and you go, I know, we were
in so late doing X, Y and Z. And then
we'd ask questions about the story. And that's sort of
where I learned how to ask questions because it's not
like we had a script or anything like, Yeah, I
just asked her shit and then we talk about stuff,
and then I give my opinions as to what I
(10:15):
felt about things. And the only thing I remember about
that podcast was, for some reason, for some reason, it
was around the holidays, and we got obsessed talking about
wrapping paper.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
Oh my god, she's obsessed with wrapping paper.
Speaker 8 (10:28):
It was, you know, the holiday cliffhanger. And all we did,
I think was talked about wrapping paper, which is.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Just probably why it's podcast banter.
Speaker 8 (10:36):
And then moved from the Gray's Anatomy one to the
Scandal one. That was just like a big excuse to
hang out with the actors and the crew and stuff
or anybody who's listening, because this is like in the call
of television fame, the most incredibly great cast in the world.
Like just we've been really lucky with her cast. So
(10:57):
it's not to disparage any for other phenomenal casts, but
you all were really close and also just you were
game for anything, you poor things.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
So yeah, oh my gosh, we were so gay.
Speaker 8 (11:07):
I'd go like, Hi, here's the opening of envelope, and
you'd be like, it's cool.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
We'll go it's do it. It's good.
Speaker 8 (11:12):
It's just it's an envelope. Envelopes are good.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
I remember going into your office to do the podcast
to be a guest. It was always so exciting to
go into the Shondaland offices and your office and Hozo
is just like, oh, this is so fun and exciting, and.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
You had a cool office.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I tell the listeners, what was the history behind that
Sunset Gower office?
Speaker 8 (11:32):
Deal was? We were at Sunset Gower and I got
Harry Cohne's all office. And none of you will know
who Harry Cone was, but Harry Cone pretty much started
Columbia Pictures. I think it was Columbia Oh wow. And
this was during the period of time in which there
were like big moguls, like the gold Winds were sort
of a mogal family. That was a whole funny thing
(11:54):
when Tony came in that office. But this office was
so intense. It was like all wood paneled. It looked
like a really scary, gigantic study. It had a bathroom
off of it that used to have like a barber
shop or like a beauty shop or whatever. And then
it had a secret door. So Harry Cohne who was
a dirty dude could get the girls in and out
(12:17):
without anybody knowing.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
No.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Oh, I remember said that. I mean you told me that.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
When I was in there, I was like, oh, I
mean it's classic Hollywood, classic old Hollywood.
Speaker 8 (12:29):
And then later I started realizing it was used in
all these movies. So like my husband and I were
watching the way, we were randomly oh yeah, I love it,
and the studio had is like sitting in my office
and I'm like what.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (12:40):
The other thing that was really cool was like every
time we'd get really short on budget money for any
show like How to Get with Murder, we used it
like three times as different things because they'd be like
a bud just really stress this episode, I go, what
can you use the office for? And we go Gentlemen's Club,
perfect college President. So it was also good.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
I want to hear about when you first found out
like that Judy and Shonda had met, and were you like, okay.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
I arranged I arranged that, you arranged.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
Oh okay, so take us through that.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, how did you meet Judy?
Speaker 7 (13:15):
So?
Speaker 8 (13:15):
I met Judy through my agent, whose name is Larry Salz,
who's great at UTA, and he had called me and said,
we're wrapping this woman that I think you, I just
think you would really respond to and sent me all
this information and material and I took one look at
it and I was like, this is such an interesting
(13:36):
idea of what this woman does for a living in
that and we were both Shonda and I've always been
obsessed with politics, We've always been obsessed with journalism. I
was like, I think she's really going to respond to
this guy. I think she would be a really good
basis for a show. And at that point we were
like buried under Gray's anatomy in private practice, and we
(13:56):
were starting to produce for other people, and she was
sort of like, I don't want to don't give me anything.
So we arranged this meeting and Judy Smith walked in
and she was wearing this white suit. Come on, and
she was I mean, Judy, as you all have probably
seen her, she's like beautiful, she's glamorous, she had this
(14:17):
long brown hair.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
She's tall, she's thin, she's very statuesque and graceful.
Speaker 8 (14:22):
She still like gets to the point right away. Stuff. Yes,
five minutes in she's talking and Shonda looks at me
and she MAVs, fuck you, oh, because she knew she
wanted to.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
She was like, I'm doing this.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
Wow, I'm doing this.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Yeah, like I don't want anybody else to do it.
Speaker 8 (14:38):
I want, I don't want, I want to do it.
And then it kind of got put on the back
burner for a while because she was so busy. And
then little by little by little, we have these conversations
and she was sort of playing with these different pieces
and eventually came up with a totally fictionalized and only
inspired by version of Judy Smith, which of course was
Olivia Pope.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
I know, I wonder what was going through Judy's Smith's
brain while she was meeting with Seawanda.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Was she like was she in on it? Like? Did
you she think, okay, they might do a show about
my life?
Speaker 8 (15:06):
Oh? I think she was pitching herself as a show
about a life, Like she was sort of like life
rights type situation. Yeah, but she really liked us too.
I then became closer to Judy for a while, so
as the process was sort of going on. But yeah,
she I think was she was into it? And then
there were some other people who were interested, but we
strong armed our way in.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Nice crazy beers. I know, do you remember like the
casting process.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
Oh yeah, you were. You were in my auditions.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Thank yeah, you were there for me too. You were in.
Speaker 8 (15:39):
Everyone I love me those rooms.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Is it your produce storial brain that loves it or
is it like your I mean, you have to tell
us about your acting stand up comedy situation and you
even came out here.
Speaker 8 (15:53):
It's a brief story. Basically, I studied acting from when
I was a kid. My dad was an agent and
he died when I was little. They were always like,
she should be an actress, she should be an actress.
And it was one of those things where everybody tells
you and you're like okay. And I could memorize lines
really easily, which I guess was all I thought was necessary,
which is really depressing. But I acted all the way
(16:13):
through elementary school, high school, college, I did summer theater,
and I remember in college they were sort of like
you shouldn't act, you should direct, and I was like,
I know, I know, it was really corol.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
My mouth is on the ground. I'm like, how dam
they and all they did in those days? Because this
was like in eighteen forty two when I was in
college and all they did was like wrecked, but they
do it like as a Western.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
Oh, nobody wants that.
Speaker 8 (16:40):
It was like this period of time where nobody was
having any fun. Everybody was just doing like really really
serious plays. And I found out that I was like
funny because we did one or two things that weren't
and they were sort of like, yeah, if you did anything,
the only you could kind of do is like musical
comedy and stuff. I was okay, fine, So I ended
up doing some summer theater and then I went to
(17:01):
New York and I joined this improv group and.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
That was really, to me really easy, right, well, because
you're so smart and so instinctual.
Speaker 8 (17:08):
God. It was also I liked. I liked sort of
the producing aspect of it, I discovered. And I also
was taking acting classes, and like the acting teachers would
pull me aside and go, you're not making a very
good argument for your character. You're letting the other person
in this conversation just and I'd be like, well, I
get their point, Like I understand what point of view,
(17:29):
Like I think they're right.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I think I'm too smart.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
I think I'm being a dick.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
That's why.
Speaker 8 (17:34):
No, it was because I can see all the points
of view, which make me a better.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Producer producer, Yes, and an actor.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Yes, Betsy, did you ever do a guest spot on
any of the shows?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Did you ever, like, were you ever in front of
the camera? Would you ever want to be?
Speaker 8 (17:48):
No? And I honestly this, I don't know how you
all do.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It Honestly, I don't know how we do it either.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
Really Like, I was watching this episode last night and
I'm like, I said to Bruce, my husband, who is also,
of course, the legal consultant on the show, what was like?
I remember intellectually, but I forgot emotionally was how much
freaking story is in there?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, oh my god.
Speaker 8 (18:11):
I was like, Okay, so hold on, hold on hold.
So they are having an affair and then she.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Likes, I'm like, who is the fucking mole?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (18:20):
What is happening?
Speaker 8 (18:21):
And Jake shows up with the mole? And then I
was like, the mole is with the the Chiron card
or whatever the hell's help draw card in that I
remember Abby stole the card and put it in the safe,
but I totally forgot that David was the guy who
actually was the guy who stole it. Yes, the introduction
to Charlie and I remember casting Charlie, like all this
(18:42):
stuff came back. Shanda couldn't be there, and we kept
seeing these people and she was looking at auditions and stuff,
but we had this conversation. She was like, Okay, I
want somebody unexpected. And we kept seeing these people are
like really like killers and serial kidders, and I kind
of go this guy like no, no, no, no, no no,
it's like a guy, like a normal guy. And Linda Loewie,
(19:06):
the brilliant casting director, totally pivoted and we brought Georgian
and we're all like, this is such a nasty idea, really,
because he seems so nice, but also he needed somebody
who really contrasted with you, huck.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
So yeah, this middle aged middle age like what's his
big movie father that loves.
Speaker 8 (19:28):
And he looks like he's dropping his kids off at
soccer practice, you.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Know, totally makes him frightening.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Which makes him so frightened when they made him a
sugar freak, and the whole sort of opening thing about
he's like he's having sex with this woman for the laptop.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
I mean, oh my god, bird work.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yes, we'll be right back, guys, before.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
We talk about this episode, really quick.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
One last question, how did you become this the Shonda
and special sauce that you read the stage directions for
graising down to me, Private Practice, Scandal, how to get Away?
I'm sure Bridgerton inventing Anna.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Betsy was like a character in the show doing the
stage directions. And for people that don't understand what the
stage directions are, there's sort of the description of what's happening,
you know, in between all the scenes. Sometimes it'll describe what,
you know, the feeling that a person is is feeling
and and it's usually super boring, right, but Betsy would
come in and just make it so freaking exciting and
you're but you matched our pace too, your pace point
(20:33):
you have to yeah, because people will fall asleep.
Speaker 8 (20:36):
People fall asleep. And the thing that I realized, because
having actually been an actor, I'll be it a bad
one how difficult it is if you are actually reading
with people, which I found when I would read with actors,
is if you suck or you're really dep it, it's
really hard for the actor to do the best job.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Right. Of course, to lift the bottom of lifting.
Speaker 8 (20:53):
Number two, I learned how to do it to some degree.
Pilots because I was selling the pilot to the studio network.
Of it was how do I help sell this pilot?
And I was like the stealth seller, and I just
I feel like what started to happen was when everybody
started realizing that somebody was reading stage directions and they
were paying attention. That started on Scandal. All the writers
(21:14):
started writing more stage directions and then to hear you say,
just to humiliate me, and then Shanda, all the sex
scenes normally would have just been sort of sex scene,
they started putting in every detail and it was the best,
just to force me to read it. Then they started
putting in songs that they wanted me to sing that
I then refused to sing, so then they would put
(21:36):
other stuff that it turned into a thing that was
actually really fun.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
It's the best.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
And these Scandal table reads were famous. Like, yeah, sometimes
you go into a table read and it's really like
respectful and kind of quiet, and everyone's sort of on
edge and scared, and like Scandal was like a fucking raucous.
Speaker 8 (21:53):
That was like a revival meeting yea.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And what's great about Betsy is like sometimes you would
be at these table reads and you'd be watching some
of the best actors. We have the best stage actors
in our country, right, So you're watching someone who would
you would pay a three hundred and fifty dollars Broadway
ticket to see Jeff Perry and Kate Burton going head
to head or whatever, trained actors, and Betsy's like right
(22:16):
in there in the scenes doing crazy descriptions at their pace,
matching their energy, resetting us.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
And then everyone who's listening it was like a show.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Everyone was like oh no, or like oh shit, or
like you know, oh yeh, or like there's sexy.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
It was crazy.
Speaker 8 (22:34):
Do you also just remember too, like we had to
limit the number of executives who would show up.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Oh, because everybody wanted to come to the table reads.
Speaker 8 (22:41):
You may not have known this, but there are periods
of time where there was limited access to the table
reads because either a plot point, but mainly because it
was like we were just always overrun. And I have
to tell you small brag. I was doing the table
read for How to Get Away with Murder and it
was this pivotal episode and Denzel Washington randomly came I
(23:04):
guess guess he was doing fences with Viola. Oh, Denzel Washington.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
My dabhood God and I'm.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Good, I could die now.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
And the thing is you would you would get those
scripts when we got him, like you didn't get him
ahead of time and sort of go over this the
stage directions.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
I don't know how much everybody's talked about this, but
basically it was like this crazy django where they'd start
the season and they'd dig a hole. The writers in
Shonda would just like, dig hole, get in the hole,
dump dirt on themselves, and then figure out the rest
of the way to get out of the season. And
they had an idea as to what was going to happen,
but it was such an incredibly complex puzzle that without
(23:45):
a doubt, like nobody would see scripts until do you
remember they were hot.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Hot Oh yeah, literally hot off the press.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yep, we need the ticking clock like it really helped Scandal,
I think for this show exactly, the vibe was everyone
is stretch. It's like we're all freaking because it's all
so high stage.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
And you're all finding out information in real time with
the audience anyway for the most part.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
So yes, yeah, okay, let's talk about episode two twenty one,
because Betsy Beers is one of the most, Like I said,
prolific producers in Hollywood.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
She's busy.
Speaker 8 (24:15):
I know this is way more fun.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
We're talking about episode two twenty one, which was called
Any Questions, which aired on May ninth, twenty thirteen.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
It was written by Matt.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Byrne, who earned Matty Byrne, longtime member of the family
and has written prodigiously, even on the recent Inventing Anna
starring Katie Lows.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Of course, love him.
Speaker 8 (24:35):
He worked on Queen Charlotte. He's phenomenal, and he wrote
this in a very Maddy Byrne way. And I think
it was directed by Mark Tinker.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yes, directed by Mark Tinker.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (24:46):
Mark Tinker longtime member of the Shondaland family. He was
the producing director on Private Practice and has worked on
many shows and was a big factor in an old
medical show called Saint Elsewhere, which we believe I swear
love him, love him, but Mark's hysterical and great.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
But Mark directed a few episodes of Scandal right, and.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
He directed my one guest star episode of Private Practice
where I just left my baby in the backseat.
Speaker 8 (25:14):
You did you killed your child?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Geez okice.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
This episode is guest starring, guest starring Scott Foley is
Jake Ballard, Joe Morton is Mysterious Man. Dan but Gatinsky
is James Novak. George Newburn is Charlie. Kate Burton is
Vice President, Sally Langston.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
Matt Lesher is Billy Chambers. Brian Lesher is Tom Larson,
Samantha Sloyan is Janine, Alexander Griers Patrick the White House staffer,
Christy Myers is Perky counter Girl be six thirteen Operative,
and also John Barrowman as the Fixer.
Speaker 8 (25:44):
I was just about to say John Berriman, who I
think the same year we had in a pilot called
The Gilded Lilies where he played hey brother and Katie.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He's a huge like Broadway.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
Guy's also Doctor Who, right.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yes, he's in Doctor Who. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
He was in a show called Central Park West years ago,
which is the first time I saw him on anything,
and he's he's wonderful and he's hot as fuck and
he's hot.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (26:06):
The other thing I thought was very funny, which is
the actress who plays Janine actually looks like jen Saki,
the former White House correspondent, looks.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
So much like Jensaki, it's yeah, okay, to remind our listeners.
What happens in this We're gonna read the synopsis. There
is so much, listeners, just so much that scandalpace.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
G yes?
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (26:30):
As Cyrus dodges questions about Fitz's affair, the opay team
tries to track down the mole once and for all.
Fitz tells Olivia and Cyrus that he's not planning of
running again, which Olivia is okay with as long as
it means they can be together Oh yeah, kissy kissing.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
But when Cyrus learns it Fits might not have planned
to run regardless, Olivia convinces him not to throw away
his presidency.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yus Charlie shows up seeking Olivia's protection, but instead almost
gets killed by Huck. Luckily, after Huck gets the name
of the mole, Quinn convinces Huck to let Charlie live,
which turns out to be.
Speaker 6 (26:58):
A bad plan. When the Citron card goes missing.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Everyone thinks they know what happened to it. Bun David
Rosen has revealed to be the one who stolen what.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
And that, Folks is our episode, Betsy, go watch your
favorite scenes from this.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
Epp Oh, I think mine? Okay?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
The Cyrus ripping James a new asshole.
Speaker 8 (27:21):
That is so painful, that's so good.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
He had a lip quiver at the end that I
was like, this motherfucker got the Emmy.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
He got that the stars this role.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
But don't you think that he There's two scenes in it.
The two scenes that go together are the sy will
you let me be a reporter?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Sy?
Speaker 8 (27:39):
Will you let me be a reporter? Si? Will you
let me be a reporter? And Size totally distracted, is
paying any attention to him, and they're gonna be on air.
They're gonna let me be on air. Yeah, yeah, And
I'm going like sure, sure, shirt. And then the flip
side of it, which is you see sweaty James with Mellie.
It's the pet of like three scene beat.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
It's like a play. Their their story is a play.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
I came to the realization watching this episode and watching
those scenes with Jeff Perry flipping out, blowing his top
like he does, and I thought that is the reason
that why Jeff Perry the actor is always so chill.
He has that I just had an amazing orgasm vibe.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Well put you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
He's so chill and relaxed and I'm like, it's because
he got that shit all out doing these scenes and
scandal like for seven seasons, right, oh.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
Without a doubt. And like jeff Perry marches down a
hallway pissed better than anybody I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Do you know that?
Speaker 8 (28:31):
On that shot when he's walking down the tunnel.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Oh my god, doesn't he take his jacket off?
Speaker 8 (28:35):
He's amazing. I'm also obsessed with Jeffrey's hair, but that's
a different issue. Oh my god, he's got this great
sort of like puffy hair in this which.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
He just just totally totally does. I love that scene.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I love the scene with Olivia and Cyrus outside in
the park that used to be a graveyard, remember, And
then at the end Olivia says it also used to
be a zoo, which I think.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
That what does that mean?
Speaker 8 (28:59):
Well, I think I mean there's still animals there, exactly. Yeah,
it used to be a zoo, so we fit right in.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh it's such a great scene.
Speaker 8 (29:07):
I also loved, weirdly all the voyeuristic stuff, which was
fully Sorry, Jake, I know I love it, but Jake,
the constant scenes have been watching himself having sex with Olivia,
which is just you.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I want to make fun of him so bad. I
text him that all the times. I'm like, yep, I'm
on the episode where you're watching yourself throw Olivia on
the counter.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
Jeez, weirdo.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sometimes we have to look down.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Katie and I have have said this that sometimes we're
watching an episode where fits in Olivia or or you know,
Scott and Olivia and olivia're having sex, and I can't
look at the screen because I'm like, we know them,
they are friends.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 8 (29:49):
I have to say it is it's weirder now that
we've all known each other for so long.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yes, yes, yes, I was.
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Watching this stuff and I would have flashes of like,
can I remember going to the Democratic National Convention with
Tony what twenty sixteen or whatever it was, and Tony
and his wife and all anybody.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Could see was that, Oh yeah, women were as.
Speaker 8 (30:12):
Swissed with him. They got it.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
They still are.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's really wild. Wait another one, the freaking Harrison Dean
oh in Olivia, Yes, where he's like end game, what is.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
You're my client? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (30:29):
And also this weird thing where she's passing the torch.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yes, yes, I love that.
Speaker 8 (30:34):
Scene because it's the first time she tries to patch
the torch. A couple of times over the course of
the series, but this, I think is the first time
you see her say I'm out. And I just kept
thinking how emotionally incredibly disappointing it is, how she always
has to do the right thing. And they did one
thing wrong, yeah, which was a big thing.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Oh, they just read a little election.
Speaker 8 (30:58):
Hey, ye know, they did one thing wrong. But that
over and over and over again, she has to to
sacrifice that thing. You know where in the episode before
where they sit and they watch the clock and the album.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Leaf time have run out.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
The album leaf stuff comes in, which is just like,
oh my god, and you know, Mellie's talking and she
realizes that it's actually really going to happen. And then
she starts this episode and she's she's like lighter. And
I keep watching the costumes too, in terms of what
people are wearing, like she's in a slightly sort of
like it feels slightly air and then little by little
(31:34):
by little, you see it dawn on her. And it's
a genius of Carrie, like you see it dawn on her.
Over the course of the episode that they can't do this,
that Cyrus is right.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
That he needs to get a second term and he's
got to win. I know you're right. Her acting at
the beginning of this episode, there's so much about her like,
oh my god, I'm going to get what I want.
I'm gonna not live this life. I'm going to be
with the man that I love. I can have normal
or whatever. Yeah, whatever that means to her. And then
you watch it slowly, act by act break down. She's
(32:06):
holding onto it and she's passing over Opa. She's done
being a fixer.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
She can do it. She can do it.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
And in that scene you guys were talking about the zoo,
she's still holding onto it. And then she starts. There's
that part where Cyrus is like, don't do this to me,
don't do this to us. Then she finds out about
the paper that he never submitted.
Speaker 6 (32:25):
That's the paper what's it called, what's it called?
Speaker 5 (32:27):
The thing saying that he wants to again, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Never submitted it because he didn't think he deserved it,
and so she ends their relationship again. It's just like,
they keep us on this line, man, for seven seasons.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
They keep us on this They.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
Super super do. But then I also am like, I
was so delighted about the fact that Charlie makes an
entrance and now there's a Charlie in the world as well.
But also I just have to say for the record,
and I will prove myself to be the idiot I am.
I totally had forgotten that Billy Chambers comes back.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Oh, I forgot too. I watched it. I was like, oh, Billy,
Billy Chambers, you're not alone.
Speaker 8 (33:11):
I the last time I saw Billy Chambers was he
was stabbing somebody with scissors.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
To totally forgot that Billy Chambers is in the car, which, by.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
The way, speaking of table reads, sometimes y'all would do
that to us too, which is we wouldn't know what
the storyline of what was happening, and then all of
a sudden, Billy Chambers would come back, or Greg Henry
or somebody had been around in two years or something,
and then they'd come back and we're.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Like, what are you doing?
Speaker 6 (33:40):
Like we've learned that way that they're going to be
a part of it.
Speaker 8 (33:42):
Oh, and how long did it take me to understand
that Billy and Tom are brothers?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Matt and Brian Lesher.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
Yeah, Matt and Brian Lesher great actors.
Speaker 8 (33:52):
It took me like. It wasn't until somebody said, you
know their brothers.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I was like, really, wait, So we learned that Charlie
took the cidetron hard but it's okay.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
No, well we think he did, but it was really
it was really Rosen.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
It was David Rosen, yes, and he gave it to
Billy Chamber because.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
David Rosen is not happy with the election fraud and
he keeps making it clearer. No, it's listening to him.
All he wants to know is like, who's fits having
sex with? And you all did this really funny thing
where you keep going on that part. They take their
heads and they look around a lot, or they dip
their heads down.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Look down, look at each other, and he's like, oh,
I wonder who's banging the president and we all know
it's Olivia's that We're like, dude.
Speaker 8 (34:33):
It was also this great moment where Quinn obviously knows
how to dismember a body. At this point, you look
at Huck and you're so pleased with yourself.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
And Abby says, ooh baby, oh.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Baby, I say some shit about hacking We're like trying
to send a trojan horse to Sally Langston's daughter.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
That was it.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
I love this Sally Langston thing. And then it's David
Rosen who comes up with the thing.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
Yeah, who's like, you got to get the meanest mean girl.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Which is so true. That's true.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 8 (35:02):
And then there's that really funny picture of this girl
with this nose before a nose job that was so vicious.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
They must have built that, Like it looked so terrible
glue did you use like that?
Speaker 3 (35:17):
It was like nozola on her face.
Speaker 8 (35:19):
Wow, she was like the wicked witch in the Wizard
of Oz. Like.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
I was like, is that like Shylock from Merchant to
Venice likes Shakespeare?
Speaker 8 (35:28):
Katie Way to bring the level of the podcast up,
it looked really ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
I was like, this is so insane. Wait, some fun
facts about this episode. Sally says, the name of the
previous episode a woman scorn.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
She's doing a walk and.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Talk down the White House hallways with Jeff and.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
She's like trying to find out information.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Yeah, Mellie's gonna come out tonight, She's gonna say it,
and well, you know, like the Bible says, hell, haf
no fury, like a woman scorned, and Jeff says something
like not everything's in the bally. Yeah, we should do
the whole series again and Guillermo should play in Cyrus. Okay,
since it wasn't said last time, it has been said
in almost every episode so far. According to the timeline
(36:11):
within the Scandal universe, Billy has been missing for a
year and six months.
Speaker 8 (36:17):
This is when I'm saying till like, this is what
I'm saying, What the hell? What's the deal?
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Right?
Speaker 6 (36:23):
I mean, where'd he go? What's he been doing?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
But how exciting when he pops back up right and like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 8 (36:30):
It's amazing, yo.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
One thing that I loved is one of the opening
scenes when Jeff Perry when Cyrus goes to Olivia's apartment
and is trying to get into the apartment and he's
yelling at Tom and the other guy, the other security
guy blowing his top again I know.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
And then don't you love it when he tries to
go back again and he has the assistant lie to
get him in. Oh yes, he gets there, and the
same thing happens this time it's Jake. It's just like
that man cannot get in that woman's apartment no matter
what he does.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Also, my god, how how much sex to fits in
Olivia I have to have in this series.
Speaker 8 (37:02):
It's like unbelievable. As I would say, I think most
of us. It either makes you feel like that's incredible
or I just feel bad about my life.
Speaker 6 (37:11):
Yeah, I just me.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
I always think, like, God, did they have to shoot
that at five am on like a one day?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I alwaysistically, was it like at worked that day?
Speaker 7 (37:22):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (37:22):
Oh oh, teacher, teacher, teacher.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Also Beetsy Beer, thank you?
Speaker 8 (37:28):
Did Josh Melina have a cold or the flu when
we were filming that episode?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Oh my god, Betsy, I thought the same thing.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
I remember that there was a couple of episodes where
he was like really sick. When he was describing the nose.
I turned to Bruce and I said, I remember this
because I remember we didn't know if we could shoot
with Josh because I think Josh had the flu or something.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You could hear.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
This and I was like, Oh, no, someone's got a cold.
And you know what's so funny in this post COVID.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
World, like that would have never happened.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
Things have changed so much.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Were like if you're really sick like that, Like you
can't go on a set and expose all of your castmates.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
But the seven years of Scandal, we used to work,
oh full on fucking slugs. Oh you like, just get
it done.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
If you can stand and you can walk, you can act,
get it together.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
The only rule was you couldn't do love scenes if
you like had a fever or lots and lots of
snot right. So that was the only kind of waterloo.
But everybody would show up like hacking. Oh yeah, just
feeling sea dumbiting, he doesn't like a little diarrhea.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Gee, did you ever have to not come because you
were so sick?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 5 (38:40):
I remember the one time I almost didn't come. They
sent a doctor to my.
Speaker 8 (38:43):
House to make sure you could.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Yeah, and she gave me like a shot and like
a Z pack, and I was fine the next day.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah, I mean fine enough.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
How about when you came to work and you'd been
in the emergency room the whole night before because you,
by accident, were at a restaurant and had nuts and
you're definitely allergic, and your whole body blew up.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Yes, And then I got a cold sore on my lip,
and we had to do that sex scene in the
conference room and Tom was like, Okay, it's gonna be
from behind, so we weren't facing each other.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah, we had to adjust.
Speaker 8 (39:14):
That would be Tom Verica, our producer. Yes, of course
it's an actor, and not only was like the show
must go on, but figured out a way to film it.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Yep, on top of g on the conference wooden table.
We were supposed to make out and have sex, and
then he walked in and he was like, I'm so sorry,
I'm a cold sore. So I remembered Tom being like, oh,
it's okay.
Speaker 6 (39:35):
He could just flip you around and the whole thing
just happens from behind. I was like, okay, and we
did it.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
What season was that?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Was that?
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Like? Season three? I don't know your I think it's four.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Idea, we'll get there. We will be back with more
after the break.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
We also forgot to talk about the scene with you,
me and George Newburn Katie. I love that when I
have him taped up and I'm about to shoot him
after he gives us gives me the name of the mole,
and then Katie walks in with this beautifully like dun
hair and like hot lipstick. Did you notice that you
were like all made up?
Speaker 8 (40:12):
Well, that was the thing. One of the things that
you do really notice is how shiny it is, Like
the whole show is super shiny. Everybody's up. It's a
really clean and pressed and you always look neat and
even after sex like fits. His shirts are crisp and
they come and Katie looked like, oh, just come off
like guest hosting Good Morning America.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
My hair was just had come out of a set
of rollers.
Speaker 8 (40:38):
You literally look like you're a guest hosting with Ryan Seacrest.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
Yeah, it was too much. I look better on this
show than.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
That, honestly, Like I was like, also, I mean somebody,
I think I've gotten better at acting since then. My god,
it is hard for me to sometimes watch these scenes.
Speaker 6 (40:55):
I'm like, what am I too doing? Like why, yeah.
Speaker 8 (40:59):
I'm so good, You're so high on stupidity.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
That's all in your head. We all need ourselves.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Nobody's thinking that how much chapstick lip gloss could I
possibly have on b Why am I talking like that?
Like why can't I just talk normal? Like what is happening?
I just am over the top acting and thank god,
Shanda and Betsy didn't kill Quinn off because I was like,
I am a failure, Like this.
Speaker 8 (41:27):
Is hysterical, you're such a weirdo, Like you're so good.
And the whole point is Quinn was from the moment
you meet her, she's over eager, she's performative, she's she
puts that out there. That's the whole point. The same
way Huck is, you know, a semi vegetable half the
time until he comes.
Speaker 6 (41:47):
Alive murdering people.
Speaker 8 (41:49):
I mean, what's great is you get to know Huck
is you go It's almost like there's a trigger that
was built into him that at a particular point he
has to kill, like this is all he was good for.
Oh and that characters. What's great to me is as
you watch the show progress over the seasons, everybody really
knows how to write for the characters as they are.
(42:10):
You all pivoted as your characters would change. That's the
most incredible thing. So no shit talking about one's performance.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
I say that to people all the time.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I feel really lucky, Like I think a lot of
times if you're if you're an actor and you're lucky
enough to land lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
When you do, or if you do.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Most of the times the character you book is how
they stay for seven years, like especially on a sitcom
or especially like it is very rare for your character
to change. And that's what I thought was so awesome
about Scandal was like I got to do.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
The craziest shit in the whole world.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
And if you had showed me Quen season five, six
seven compared to one, two, three and all the I
mean the characters.
Speaker 7 (42:56):
Melilly, Smelly, Melly, Yeah season two, like Mellie is she's
very self righteous and she's doing that low ballomy voice,
and she's wearing her suit and she's.
Speaker 8 (43:10):
Very angry about everything. And then you think about where
we got to where you have, and so much of
it to me, in terms of the writing, is about
I've always said about this company, about what Shonda creates
and the writers. Everybody's three dimensional. As you start to
get to know a character, you think you know them,
and then something comes out, either in flashback or backstory
(43:30):
or their Achilles heel, and everything changes about how you
feel about those characters. And to the point where you know,
Olivia Pope brains the vice president with a chair.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
That's right, and you're kind of like.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
You had it coming well and also even fits killing Verna,
like all that shit was like.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
What, yeah, how about the season where Fitz was just
a drunk, like just a mean, fucking drunk.
Speaker 6 (43:57):
Sure, he's like awful to Melly.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
He's after he got shot.
Speaker 8 (44:01):
It's also like you meet us dad and you understand
the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Barry boss Wick like.
Speaker 8 (44:08):
Oh, the poor Barry Poster. I mean he was like
the Robert bridegrim on Broadway and there he was just
being terrible. But yeah, No, it's those layers and depth
and the fact that very often the plot, which is
so incredibly engaging and involving, reveals not only another plot
point that either traumatizes or changes the way that you
(44:30):
operate as characters, but reveals something deeper that you didn't
know existed, which then allows the character to keep growing.
It's really cool and incredibly layered.
Speaker 6 (44:40):
We felt very, very very lucky to do that.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Wait, fortunately, before we let you go, and we're going
to read some tweets at the time, was there any
of your favorite memories that come to mind.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Like meeting me and Katie for the first time, Well,
i'd met you.
Speaker 8 (44:57):
Before, Gamo, so I was so excited to see you
because it was like a creepy reunion where I, like
you first meet. He was in two hundred Cigarettes, which
was the first movie I produced, and Ghirmo was hysterical
and really really good in the movie.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
It's like a cult underground, like people love them. It's
such a great movie.
Speaker 8 (45:17):
So I loved Gharma like and Ghirmou did me the
ultimate solid, which we talked about in the podcast, which
is yes, it's a long story, but he ended up
playing Angie Featherstone in the back of a cap so
I wouldn't have to dye my hair carrot orange and
do a double for her because she wasn't with us anymore.
She hadn't die, she just had to go on to
another job. But I remember distinctly like being really excited
(45:38):
to see Gheramo, and I'd met you a couple of times, Katie,
because we came really close to casting you twice before,
and we also had You've been You were in Gray's
Anatomy too, weren't you.
Speaker 6 (45:48):
Yeah, I'm private practice.
Speaker 8 (45:49):
Yeah, And I remember Seanda said, you get to call
Ghirrimo and tell me about the part because you know
him and you love him. So I got to call Ghirrimo.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yes, yes, yes, I remember that.
Speaker 8 (45:59):
Yes I got to call Gaermeau. But you know what,
there's so much the casting process was really fun. I
don't know if they're all of these weird because we
all we all would hang out together too. Sometimes I would,
I would see you all.
Speaker 6 (46:10):
Yeah, we went upfronts together. We went two things together.
Speaker 8 (46:14):
I remember, do you remember these sacks fit the avenue
window things?
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yes, Oh my god, we were Mannikins.
Speaker 8 (46:20):
We took over Sacksmith Avenue and they had sacks with
avenue hosted. I think was Lynn pallow Is, the costume
our brilliant costume designer who worked with a lot since
and we sort of took over sacks We had this
big party and there were all of these scandal mannequins
with clothes on in the sax window, and all the
actors climbed into the windows and stood next to their mannequins.
(46:40):
And we couldn't get out of like a hotel without
bringing you guys through the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
It was Inese. Yes, we walked through so many kids.
Speaker 8 (46:48):
We went through so many kitchens in those days. So
I remember, like all of those times the table reads.
I remarily really well, and I remember realizing when the
show was going to hit and sitting everyone down because
we've been through with Grays and as I mean, I
remember sitting down with you all and basically saying, Okay,
so your lives are going to change and you have
(47:08):
to be prepared for the fact that it's going to
get really weird. And Katie was like, what do you mean.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Oh yeah, I was like, why what are you talking about?
This is what I remember, though, you guys being so
giving and saying like, if you need anything, if something happens,
like you get a fender bender, all the shit, you
call me, call me. I don't want to find out
Monday morning and the trade like you know, you guys
had already been through a hit happening on Grays and
(47:36):
it's skyrocketing so quickly. I think the greatest thing that
happened to Scandal with it was a little bit more
of a slower burn that people got turned onto the
show like it was like it builds it was season two.
Speaker 8 (47:47):
Yeah, it was like a bad season one under your belt.
But the weirdest thing about it was because it didn't
shoot out like a cannon when we started The weirdest
thing was you were already used to it being fine
to do whatever you wanted to do. You were going
into like Loman's dressing room. So what everybody needs to
know is like their Lomans was the store where you
went in. There were communal dressing rooms. They had them
in New York and different stores, And if you're from
(48:08):
the East Coast, you're really used to this. And we
found out as the show was becoming gigantic that Katie
was still going into Lomans in the public dressing room
and change your clothes. And I remember specifically saying, Katie,
you can't go in the public dressing rooms anymore. Nope,
because you're going to end up in your bronz panting.
Speaker 6 (48:28):
People are going to take photos of me and your
underwear on the intranet.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Yeah no, thank God said something to me. I was like,
I think things are starting to get weird.
Speaker 8 (48:39):
The sales, you missed, the.
Speaker 6 (48:41):
Sales, sales all the time.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Listen to some tweets at a time, y'all is the
best improv.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Artists and Whistler apparently.
Speaker 6 (49:00):
Wait, Betsy, did you join the Twitter for this show?
Like we all did? I'm not on it. Much anymore.
Speaker 8 (49:05):
But I joined the tweets kate for this show specifically,
and now I'm not.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yeah wait should I be off Twitter? Yes? Do I
need to get off Twitter? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (49:15):
Right, I'm not off. I just don't check it or
go on it for age.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
It's so sad and angry.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Now, I know what I like about these is that
it was a real time capsule for what was going on.
Like at official JP Peace and Power Planet is coming.
Me and my brother just had the ill convo trying
to figure out who the mole is on hashtag scandal.
Speaker 6 (49:36):
This fool thinks it's fits. Lol, Guys the.
Speaker 5 (49:39):
Mole, that damn mole and then do better, y'all. At
Miss Lynn ninety three tweeted, wait, what if how is
the mole? I knew he blinked too much hashtag scandal.
Speaker 6 (49:50):
This is a good one.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
At sunny Chaie tweeted, So I just told a friend
that I think Harrison is the mole on Scandal.
Speaker 6 (49:55):
I think she just about passed out. Lol. We both
hope and I'm wrong. Here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (50:00):
People were invested, man, They really were trying to figure
out who the male was.
Speaker 4 (50:04):
We're so invested. And my favorite line of the episode
might be. Quinn was like, if I say the word
mole one more.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
One more time? Yes, that was so good and you were.
Speaker 8 (50:15):
Right, Betsy, Thank you so thank so much, so much fun.
Anytime you just want me on to talk randomly about
shit that has nothing to do with anything.
Speaker 5 (50:25):
We definitely want to have you back on. We should
switch the roles and have her host and you and
I be the guests on on this podcast.
Speaker 6 (50:31):
Yeah, because she's such a better host than.
Speaker 8 (50:34):
Guys are so full of shit. Your eyes are brown.
Speaker 6 (50:38):
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 8 (50:39):
Thank you so much for having me. This was so
much fun. I didn't have to work for like an hour.
Speaker 4 (50:43):
This was so great And now you have so much
to do. And next up we've got the finale of
season two, episode two two, which is so good. White
hats back on people, and I think we have a
very very very another very special guest in our back
pocket coming. So make sure you tune into all your
friends like subscribe Unpacking the tool Yes at Girmo, how
(51:03):
do we say it en Espano.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
De Ramientas Unpacking the Toolbox and.
Speaker 6 (51:09):
Espanol Adeos Gladiators.
Speaker 5 (51:11):
Thank you everybody, by Betsy, thank you guys for joining
us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show,
please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us
a review.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce, Lauren Homan,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince De Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Unpacking the
Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app
or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
This episode was recorded prior to the SAG After Strike.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
partnership with Iheartradiots.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
And Katie Tho.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
I'm watching the episode that we're talking about today, and
I'm like, do you remember conversation Shonda would have where
it's like they would give such shit about sexual stuff
on the show, but like violence or death was like
fair game?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Did it matter? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:51):
And I'm just like refreshing myself on the end of
season two, which is where we're currently at. There's just
guns held at people's heads.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
All the time, ye constantly.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Yeah, motherfuckers are eating donuts right before they were about
to get shot.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Abby's holding a gun.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm holding a gun, and Charlie's holding a gun at
David Rosen, and then Jake Ballard has a gun because
he's about to take down Charlie. It's just like Rice,
why don't we And Adam Adam just did like the
top gun thing. He just did John Wick prequel series,
which is literally gun porn. It's like, how many fucking
(01:26):
things can we fucking light up?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:29):
What is that?
Speaker 5 (01:30):
I haven't seen any of the John Wicks, but I
hear there's somebody just went to see it a friend
of mine and said it was super violent. And it's
like one of the most popular franchises. Right, there's like
what five part five now or four?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I don't even know.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Fast and the Furious. I have no idea what's going on.
I've never seen You're right, it's like porn yea. And
my son is like obsessed. He is, but yeah, he
just is like, you know, I want swords, I.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Want I want shields.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Everything is good guy, bad guy. Did you play like
that when you were a little kid or no?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
No, I played with like a Donald Duck doll that
you would press his hands and he would walk, his
legs would move. You would press his right hand and
his left leg would move. Typical fucking gay shit. Like
I loved all the dolls. I loved all the superhero
dolls and Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck all that stuff.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
Have you been in real fights in your life?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Just like two? But I don't like it, and I'm
not good at it at all.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
I'm not I get very scared, like I'll defend myself,
but I'm still super I don't like it.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I don't like it like did you get ever get
hit or hit someone in the face, like when you
were a kid growing up.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
I've never done that.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
I did once I did. I hit someone in the face,
and I've been hitting the face.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
Was it terrible.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, it was almost like I blacked out. Like afterwards,
I was like, I don't even remember doing that. It
was just like a reflex to Yeah, you know, I
was just being.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Protect yourself with fight or flight, like you went into
like animalistic mode.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
But then it stopped. It didn't. It was like a
continued fight.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
I would have friends that would be fighting on the
street for like fifteen minutes, like taking their shirts off,
like let's go, like taking you know, their shoes off.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I was like, what are you people doing?
Speaker 6 (03:09):
Like, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I remember in high school the girls fighting like way
worse than the guys. The girls like fucking ripping their
out and fucking dreads and shit out of their hair.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
Bad bad like black girls. I mean, I said, I
blacked out, but girls black the fuck out.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
They don't care. You can't pull them apart O.
Speaker 6 (03:29):
Can this like not happen to my kids?
Speaker 7 (03:31):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Fighting, fighting is bad, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:33):
But they're still fucking doing it. I think they are.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Well, and then you know, we're brought up, especially boys,
being like, fuck, you gotta fight, defend yourself, you gotta
learn how to fight, learn a fight, fight. You know,
it becomes like this thing that you feel you need
to be good at, or that it's a good thing
that you could beat somebody up.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Like that's not good. It's fucking you, it's not good.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
But also like why even let it get to that?
And I was kind of lucky to I was sort
of friends with everyone. I don't know how, but I
was like a theater girl and I was on the
dance team and a few things. But I think being an adult
is so much harder because my anxiety. I didn't have
that as a kid, and now it's worse than it's
ever been, Like my real life worries everyone, kitty.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Do you ever think I think back on the times
when I first started acting and doing plays and everything
and having no anxiety whatsoever. I was fearless, And I
think back on those times and I'm like, wow, like
I wish I could feel that again, you know what
I mean. And of course there's fleeting moments when you
feel that way, but you're right, there's so much crap
(04:37):
that we're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
There's just real life worries, like I didn't worry, like
and look, that is such a fucking privilege, Like obviously
I wasn't worried about food or like rent or like
you know, because there are kids that have those fucking
worries of course.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Which is awful.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
And did you say food? You know?
Speaker 6 (04:57):
We have to talk to Betsy about that. She we
used to host the Scandal podcast.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, I was thinking about that earlier.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, And I want to ask her all about like
how did she first hear that that the meeting went
great and like come on board?
Speaker 6 (05:10):
And was she into it from the start?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And then we had to talk to her all about
reading stage directions scared.
Speaker 5 (05:14):
Yes, I thought about that too, yes, yes, yes, and
she was.
Speaker 6 (05:18):
A comedian and an actress yes in New York.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, start Betsy Beers. Yeah, I feel like always
say that I love it so much.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
I do not as much as I love your last
name Beers, because I would love four right now?
Speaker 8 (05:38):
Who wouldn't And it's totally what eleven o'clock here, Where
are you? Garma? Are you? I'm in La so morning drinking,
which is the.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Best, right right, because we're coming out at the time
of this recording of a three day weekend.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
He we just are feeling very like, whoa, we really.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Had a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday situation and our brain's
not firing, probably a level that Betsy Beers.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
Is no minus minus a big sleepy pile of poo.
What's fun about this episode two is it's the episode
before the last episode, which, like I remembered really well
because we did that table.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Read yes in front of a live audience, Yeah, in.
Speaker 8 (06:15):
Front of a live audience, and when we gave the
last line, which I'm not going to give away for
anybody who hasn't seen the show, which probably makes no
sense because everybody listens to this like, gosh, I hope
you've you've seen the show, but that there's that last line.
And I remember, because I was doing stage directions.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
We were in were we at the Doldie.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
It was some scary, weird situation, big theater. It was
a big theater, right, and I remember we all had
to stop because the screaming. Just for anybody who doesn't
know what the hell I'm talking about, I don't blame you.
So we did a season finale table read. I think
it was for charity.
Speaker 6 (06:52):
I think it was for charity too.
Speaker 8 (06:53):
Yeah, we did this table read and they were about, oh,
I don't know, four or five hundred people there, and
obviously the actors had already shot it, so we all
knew it was yeah, yeah, yeah, which often, by the way,
we didn't we don't.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (07:07):
But it was one of the most amazing experiences I've
ever had because I got to the last line, which,
as we all know, is Dad. None of these people
had seen the episode. We literally did it right as
the episode was airing. I remember we just we all
just sat there and look at each other. Yeah, while
people were sweating and screaming and running up and down
the aisles, and it was pretty great.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
It was insane.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I remember Debbie Allen jumping out of her seat like
a mad woman and cheering, and I'm like, and she's
in Shondaland, and even she was like, oh my.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
God, yeah, she must not have known. It was so crazy.
But Betsy, tell our listeners two things. One, you used
to host the Scandal podcast.
Speaker 8 (07:49):
It was called Scandaled Revealed, and I forced every single
one of these poor actors to be on it, like
eight hundred times over the course of the period of
the show.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
You knew before like podcasts are obviously such a thing now,
But my god, Betsy, you were hosting correct if I'm wrong,
was a grace.
Speaker 8 (08:09):
Then we did Scandal, then we did Shondaland Revealed, and
then people became tired and had to lie down, so
I got out of it, and then of course it
got really popular so I can do my FM.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
It just means that Betsy is always at the beginning
of the bell curve. She knows what's hot before everyone
else knows what's hot.
Speaker 8 (08:29):
For timing's so good that she gets out just when
it gets hot.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
Oh that is not.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
The case now wait listen, but I remember everyone talking
about going on the Scandal Revealed podcast, And look, Betsy
is you're so famous in life and in in Shondaland for.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
Just well you were an actor.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Tell us, like, yes, you're the greatest, one of the
most prolific producers in all of television history.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
And you were an.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Actor in a comedian, which makes you amazing at hosting
pot and the best stage direction reader at a table
reader that's ever existed. So tell us what you did
on the podcast. Originally start there.
Speaker 8 (09:11):
Okay, so on the podcast. Originally, the first podcast we
did was Gray's Anatomy. I think I don't remember if
it had a catchy name, except it was Shonda and
me and it was like, I don't know if it
was season two or season three. But we started doing
this because in those days, not that many people were
doing podcasts, and everybody was really excited with hers anatomy,
(09:31):
and Shanda, believe it or not, at that period of time,
didn't talk as much. She was not that vocal. All
she was doing was kind of working, and everybody sort
of wanted to know was in her brain. And so
we started doing this thing where we would start every
podcast night she'd go, I'm Shanda, and I go I'm Betsy,
and we'd go, and this is Gray's Anatomy. And then
we would I would just ask a bunch of questions
(09:53):
or I'd say, oh, man, this week was really hard.
You know, can you believe this week? This week just
was so hard, and you go, I know, we were
in so late doing X, Y and Z. And then
we'd ask questions about the story. And that's sort of
where I learned how to ask questions because it's not
like we had a script or anything like, Yeah, I
just asked her shit and then we talk about stuff,
and then I give my opinions as to what I
(10:15):
felt about things. And the only thing I remember about
that podcast was, for some reason, for some reason, it
was around the holidays, and we got obsessed talking about
wrapping paper.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
Oh my god, she's obsessed with wrapping paper.
Speaker 8 (10:28):
It was, you know, the holiday cliffhanger. And all we did,
I think was talked about wrapping paper, which is.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Just probably why it's podcast banter.
Speaker 8 (10:36):
And then moved from the Gray's Anatomy one to the
Scandal one. That was just like a big excuse to
hang out with the actors and the crew and stuff
or anybody who's listening, because this is like in the call
of television fame, the most incredibly great cast in the world.
Like just we've been really lucky with her cast. So
(10:57):
it's not to disparage any for other phenomenal casts, but
you all were really close and also just you were
game for anything, you poor things.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
So yeah, oh my gosh, we were so gay.
Speaker 8 (11:07):
I'd go like, Hi, here's the opening of envelope, and
you'd be like, it's cool.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
We'll go it's do it. It's good.
Speaker 8 (11:12):
It's just it's an envelope. Envelopes are good.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
I remember going into your office to do the podcast
to be a guest. It was always so exciting to
go into the Shondaland offices and your office and Hozo
is just like, oh, this is so fun and exciting, and.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
You had a cool office.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I tell the listeners, what was the history behind that
Sunset Gower office?
Speaker 8 (11:32):
Deal was? We were at Sunset Gower and I got
Harry Cohne's all office. And none of you will know
who Harry Cone was, but Harry Cone pretty much started
Columbia Pictures. I think it was Columbia Oh wow. And
this was during the period of time in which there
were like big moguls, like the gold Winds were sort
of a mogal family. That was a whole funny thing
(11:54):
when Tony came in that office. But this office was
so intense. It was like all wood paneled. It looked
like a really scary, gigantic study. It had a bathroom
off of it that used to have like a barber
shop or like a beauty shop or whatever. And then
it had a secret door. So Harry Cohne who was
a dirty dude could get the girls in and out
(12:17):
without anybody knowing.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
No.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
Oh, I remember said that. I mean you told me that.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
When I was in there, I was like, oh, I
mean it's classic Hollywood, classic old Hollywood.
Speaker 8 (12:29):
And then later I started realizing it was used in
all these movies. So like my husband and I were
watching the way, we were randomly oh yeah, I love it,
and the studio had is like sitting in my office
and I'm like what.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (12:40):
The other thing that was really cool was like every
time we'd get really short on budget money for any
show like How to Get with Murder, we used it
like three times as different things because they'd be like
a bud just really stress this episode, I go, what
can you use the office for? And we go Gentlemen's Club,
perfect college President. So it was also good.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
I want to hear about when you first found out
like that Judy and Shonda had met, and were you like, okay.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
I arranged I arranged that, you arranged.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
Oh okay, so take us through that.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, how did you meet Judy?
Speaker 7 (13:15):
So?
Speaker 8 (13:15):
I met Judy through my agent, whose name is Larry Salz,
who's great at UTA, and he had called me and said,
we're wrapping this woman that I think you, I just
think you would really respond to and sent me all
this information and material and I took one look at
it and I was like, this is such an interesting
(13:36):
idea of what this woman does for a living in
that and we were both Shonda and I've always been
obsessed with politics, We've always been obsessed with journalism. I
was like, I think she's really going to respond to
this guy. I think she would be a really good
basis for a show. And at that point we were
like buried under Gray's anatomy in private practice, and we
(13:56):
were starting to produce for other people, and she was
sort of like, I don't want to don't give me anything.
So we arranged this meeting and Judy Smith walked in
and she was wearing this white suit. Come on, and
she was I mean, Judy, as you all have probably
seen her, she's like beautiful, she's glamorous, she had this
(14:17):
long brown hair.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
She's tall, she's thin, she's very statuesque and graceful.
Speaker 8 (14:22):
She still like gets to the point right away. Stuff. Yes,
five minutes in she's talking and Shonda looks at me
and she MAVs, fuck you, oh, because she knew she
wanted to.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
She was like, I'm doing this.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
Wow, I'm doing this.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Yeah, like I don't want anybody else to do it.
Speaker 8 (14:38):
I want, I don't want, I want to do it.
And then it kind of got put on the back
burner for a while because she was so busy. And
then little by little by little, we have these conversations
and she was sort of playing with these different pieces
and eventually came up with a totally fictionalized and only
inspired by version of Judy Smith, which of course was
Olivia Pope.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
I know, I wonder what was going through Judy's Smith's
brain while she was meeting with Seawanda.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Was she like was she in on it? Like? Did
you she think, okay, they might do a show about
my life?
Speaker 8 (15:06):
Oh? I think she was pitching herself as a show
about a life, Like she was sort of like life
rights type situation. Yeah, but she really liked us too.
I then became closer to Judy for a while, so
as the process was sort of going on. But yeah,
she I think was she was into it? And then
there were some other people who were interested, but we
strong armed our way in.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Nice crazy beers. I know, do you remember like the
casting process.
Speaker 6 (15:34):
Oh yeah, you were. You were in my auditions.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Thank yeah, you were there for me too. You were in.
Speaker 8 (15:39):
Everyone I love me those rooms.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Is it your produce storial brain that loves it or
is it like your I mean, you have to tell
us about your acting stand up comedy situation and you
even came out here.
Speaker 8 (15:53):
It's a brief story. Basically, I studied acting from when
I was a kid. My dad was an agent and
he died when I was little. They were always like,
she should be an actress, she should be an actress.
And it was one of those things where everybody tells
you and you're like okay. And I could memorize lines
really easily, which I guess was all I thought was necessary,
which is really depressing. But I acted all the way
(16:13):
through elementary school, high school, college, I did summer theater,
and I remember in college they were sort of like
you shouldn't act, you should direct, and I was like,
I know, I know, it was really corol.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
My mouth is on the ground. I'm like, how dam
they and all they did in those days? Because this
was like in eighteen forty two when I was in
college and all they did was like wrecked, but they
do it like as a Western.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
Oh, nobody wants that.
Speaker 8 (16:40):
It was like this period of time where nobody was
having any fun. Everybody was just doing like really really
serious plays. And I found out that I was like
funny because we did one or two things that weren't
and they were sort of like, yeah, if you did anything,
the only you could kind of do is like musical
comedy and stuff. I was okay, fine, So I ended
up doing some summer theater and then I went to
(17:01):
New York and I joined this improv group and.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
That was really, to me really easy, right, well, because
you're so smart and so instinctual.
Speaker 8 (17:08):
God. It was also I liked. I liked sort of
the producing aspect of it, I discovered. And I also
was taking acting classes, and like the acting teachers would
pull me aside and go, you're not making a very
good argument for your character. You're letting the other person
in this conversation just and I'd be like, well, I
get their point, Like I understand what point of view,
(17:29):
Like I think they're right.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
I think I'm too smart.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
I think I'm being a dick.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
That's why.
Speaker 8 (17:34):
No, it was because I can see all the points
of view, which make me a better.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Producer producer, Yes, and an actor.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Yes, Betsy, did you ever do a guest spot on
any of the shows?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Did you ever, like, were you ever in front of
the camera? Would you ever want to be?
Speaker 8 (17:48):
No? And I honestly this, I don't know how you
all do.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It Honestly, I don't know how we do it either.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
Really Like, I was watching this episode last night and
I'm like, I said to Bruce, my husband, who is also,
of course, the legal consultant on the show, what was like?
I remember intellectually, but I forgot emotionally was how much
freaking story is in there?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, oh my god.
Speaker 8 (18:11):
I was like, Okay, so hold on, hold on hold.
So they are having an affair and then she.
Speaker 6 (18:17):
Likes, I'm like, who is the fucking mole?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (18:20):
What is happening?
Speaker 8 (18:21):
And Jake shows up with the mole? And then I
was like, the mole is with the the Chiron card
or whatever the hell's help draw card in that I
remember Abby stole the card and put it in the safe,
but I totally forgot that David was the guy who
actually was the guy who stole it. Yes, the introduction
to Charlie and I remember casting Charlie, like all this
(18:42):
stuff came back. Shanda couldn't be there, and we kept
seeing these people and she was looking at auditions and stuff,
but we had this conversation. She was like, Okay, I
want somebody unexpected. And we kept seeing these people are
like really like killers and serial kidders, and I kind
of go this guy like no, no, no, no, no no,
it's like a guy, like a normal guy. And Linda Loewie,
(19:06):
the brilliant casting director, totally pivoted and we brought Georgian
and we're all like, this is such a nasty idea, really,
because he seems so nice, but also he needed somebody
who really contrasted with you, huck.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
So yeah, this middle aged middle age like what's his
big movie father that loves.
Speaker 8 (19:28):
And he looks like he's dropping his kids off at
soccer practice, you.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Know, totally makes him frightening.
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Which makes him so frightened when they made him a
sugar freak, and the whole sort of opening thing about
he's like he's having sex with this woman for the laptop.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
I mean, oh my god, bird work.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yes, we'll be right back, guys, before.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
We talk about this episode, really quick.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
One last question, how did you become this the Shonda
and special sauce that you read the stage directions for
graising down to me, Private Practice, Scandal, how to get Away?
I'm sure Bridgerton inventing Anna.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
Betsy was like a character in the show doing the
stage directions. And for people that don't understand what the
stage directions are, there's sort of the description of what's happening,
you know, in between all the scenes. Sometimes it'll describe what,
you know, the feeling that a person is is feeling
and and it's usually super boring, right, but Betsy would
come in and just make it so freaking exciting and
you're but you matched our pace too, your pace point
(20:33):
you have to yeah, because people will fall asleep.
Speaker 8 (20:36):
People fall asleep. And the thing that I realized, because
having actually been an actor, I'll be it a bad
one how difficult it is if you are actually reading
with people, which I found when I would read with actors,
is if you suck or you're really dep it, it's
really hard for the actor to do the best job.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Right. Of course, to lift the bottom of lifting.
Speaker 8 (20:53):
Number two, I learned how to do it to some degree.
Pilots because I was selling the pilot to the studio network.
Of it was how do I help sell this pilot?
And I was like the stealth seller, and I just
I feel like what started to happen was when everybody
started realizing that somebody was reading stage directions and they
were paying attention. That started on Scandal. All the writers
(21:14):
started writing more stage directions and then to hear you say,
just to humiliate me, and then Shanda, all the sex
scenes normally would have just been sort of sex scene,
they started putting in every detail and it was the best,
just to force me to read it. Then they started
putting in songs that they wanted me to sing that
I then refused to sing, so then they would put
(21:36):
other stuff that it turned into a thing that was
actually really fun.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
It's the best.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
And these Scandal table reads were famous. Like, yeah, sometimes
you go into a table read and it's really like
respectful and kind of quiet, and everyone's sort of on
edge and scared, and like Scandal was like a fucking raucous.
Speaker 8 (21:53):
That was like a revival meeting yea.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And what's great about Betsy is like sometimes you would
be at these table reads and you'd be watching some
of the best actors. We have the best stage actors
in our country, right, So you're watching someone who would
you would pay a three hundred and fifty dollars Broadway
ticket to see Jeff Perry and Kate Burton going head
to head or whatever, trained actors, and Betsy's like right
(22:16):
in there in the scenes doing crazy descriptions at their pace,
matching their energy, resetting us.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
And then everyone who's listening it was like a show.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
Everyone was like oh no, or like oh shit, or
like you know, oh yeh, or like there's sexy.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
It was crazy.
Speaker 8 (22:34):
Do you also just remember too, like we had to
limit the number of executives who would show up.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Oh, because everybody wanted to come to the table reads.
Speaker 8 (22:41):
You may not have known this, but there are periods
of time where there was limited access to the table
reads because either a plot point, but mainly because it
was like we were just always overrun. And I have
to tell you small brag. I was doing the table
read for How to Get Away with Murder and it
was this pivotal episode and Denzel Washington randomly came I
(23:04):
guess guess he was doing fences with Viola. Oh, Denzel Washington.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
My dabhood God and I'm.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Good, I could die now.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
And the thing is you would you would get those
scripts when we got him, like you didn't get him
ahead of time and sort of go over this the
stage directions.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
I don't know how much everybody's talked about this, but
basically it was like this crazy django where they'd start
the season and they'd dig a hole. The writers in
Shonda would just like, dig hole, get in the hole,
dump dirt on themselves, and then figure out the rest
of the way to get out of the season. And
they had an idea as to what was going to happen,
but it was such an incredibly complex puzzle that without
(23:45):
a doubt, like nobody would see scripts until do you
remember they were hot.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Hot Oh yeah, literally hot off the press.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yep, we need the ticking clock like it really helped Scandal,
I think for this show exactly, the vibe was everyone
is stretch. It's like we're all freaking because it's all
so high stage.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
And you're all finding out information in real time with
the audience anyway for the most part.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
So yes, yeah, okay, let's talk about episode two twenty one,
because Betsy Beers is one of the most, Like I said,
prolific producers in Hollywood.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
She's busy.
Speaker 8 (24:15):
I know this is way more fun.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
We're talking about episode two twenty one, which was called
Any Questions, which aired on May ninth, twenty thirteen.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
It was written by Matt.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Byrne, who earned Matty Byrne, longtime member of the family
and has written prodigiously, even on the recent Inventing Anna
starring Katie Lows.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Of course, love him.
Speaker 8 (24:35):
He worked on Queen Charlotte. He's phenomenal, and he wrote
this in a very Maddy Byrne way. And I think
it was directed by Mark Tinker.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yes, directed by Mark Tinker.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (24:46):
Mark Tinker longtime member of the Shondaland family. He was
the producing director on Private Practice and has worked on
many shows and was a big factor in an old
medical show called Saint Elsewhere, which we believe I swear
love him, love him, but Mark's hysterical and great.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
But Mark directed a few episodes of Scandal right, and.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
He directed my one guest star episode of Private Practice
where I just left my baby in the backseat.
Speaker 8 (25:14):
You did you killed your child?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Geez okice.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
This episode is guest starring, guest starring Scott Foley is
Jake Ballard, Joe Morton is Mysterious Man. Dan but Gatinsky
is James Novak. George Newburn is Charlie. Kate Burton is
Vice President, Sally Langston.
Speaker 5 (25:30):
Matt Lesher is Billy Chambers. Brian Lesher is Tom Larson,
Samantha Sloyan is Janine, Alexander Griers Patrick the White House staffer,
Christy Myers is Perky counter Girl be six thirteen Operative,
and also John Barrowman as the Fixer.
Speaker 8 (25:44):
I was just about to say John Berriman, who I
think the same year we had in a pilot called
The Gilded Lilies where he played hey brother and Katie.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He's a huge like Broadway.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
Guy's also Doctor Who, right.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yes, he's in Doctor Who. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
He was in a show called Central Park West years ago,
which is the first time I saw him on anything,
and he's he's wonderful and he's hot as fuck and
he's hot.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (26:06):
The other thing I thought was very funny, which is
the actress who plays Janine actually looks like jen Saki,
the former White House correspondent, looks.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
So much like Jensaki, it's yeah, okay, to remind our listeners.
What happens in this We're gonna read the synopsis. There
is so much, listeners, just so much that scandalpace.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
G yes?
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (26:30):
As Cyrus dodges questions about Fitz's affair, the opay team
tries to track down the mole once and for all.
Fitz tells Olivia and Cyrus that he's not planning of
running again, which Olivia is okay with as long as
it means they can be together Oh yeah, kissy kissing.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
But when Cyrus learns it Fits might not have planned
to run regardless, Olivia convinces him not to throw away
his presidency.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yus Charlie shows up seeking Olivia's protection, but instead almost
gets killed by Huck. Luckily, after Huck gets the name
of the mole, Quinn convinces Huck to let Charlie live,
which turns out to be.
Speaker 6 (26:58):
A bad plan. When the Citron card goes missing.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Everyone thinks they know what happened to it. Bun David
Rosen has revealed to be the one who stolen what.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
And that, Folks is our episode, Betsy, go watch your
favorite scenes from this.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
Epp Oh, I think mine? Okay?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
The Cyrus ripping James a new asshole.
Speaker 8 (27:21):
That is so painful, that's so good.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
He had a lip quiver at the end that I
was like, this motherfucker got the Emmy.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
He got that the stars this role.
Speaker 8 (27:31):
But don't you think that he There's two scenes in it.
The two scenes that go together are the sy will
you let me be a reporter?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Sy?
Speaker 8 (27:39):
Will you let me be a reporter? Si? Will you
let me be a reporter? And Size totally distracted, is
paying any attention to him, and they're gonna be on air.
They're gonna let me be on air. Yeah, yeah, And
I'm going like sure, sure, shirt. And then the flip
side of it, which is you see sweaty James with Mellie.
It's the pet of like three scene beat.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
It's like a play. Their their story is a play.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
I came to the realization watching this episode and watching
those scenes with Jeff Perry flipping out, blowing his top
like he does, and I thought that is the reason
that why Jeff Perry the actor is always so chill.
He has that I just had an amazing orgasm vibe.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
Well put you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
He's so chill and relaxed and I'm like, it's because
he got that shit all out doing these scenes and
scandal like for seven seasons, right, oh.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
Without a doubt. And like jeff Perry marches down a
hallway pissed better than anybody I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Do you know that?
Speaker 8 (28:31):
On that shot when he's walking down the tunnel.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Oh my god, doesn't he take his jacket off?
Speaker 8 (28:35):
He's amazing. I'm also obsessed with Jeffrey's hair, but that's
a different issue. Oh my god, he's got this great
sort of like puffy hair in this which.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
He just just totally totally does. I love that scene.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I love the scene with Olivia and Cyrus outside in
the park that used to be a graveyard, remember, And
then at the end Olivia says it also used to
be a zoo, which I think.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
That what does that mean?
Speaker 8 (28:59):
Well, I think I mean there's still animals there, exactly. Yeah,
it used to be a zoo, so we fit right in.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh it's such a great scene.
Speaker 8 (29:07):
I also loved, weirdly all the voyeuristic stuff, which was
fully Sorry, Jake, I know I love it, but Jake,
the constant scenes have been watching himself having sex with Olivia,
which is just you.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
I want to make fun of him so bad. I
text him that all the times. I'm like, yep, I'm
on the episode where you're watching yourself throw Olivia on
the counter.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
Jeez, weirdo.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Sometimes we have to look down.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Katie and I have have said this that sometimes we're
watching an episode where fits in Olivia or or you know,
Scott and Olivia and olivia're having sex, and I can't
look at the screen because I'm like, we know them,
they are friends.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It's like, what are you doing?
Speaker 8 (29:49):
I have to say it is it's weirder now that
we've all known each other for so long.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yes, yes, yes, I was.
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Watching this stuff and I would have flashes of like,
can I remember going to the Democratic National Convention with
Tony what twenty sixteen or whatever it was, and Tony
and his wife and all anybody.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
Could see was that, Oh yeah, women were as.
Speaker 8 (30:12):
Swissed with him. They got it.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
They still are.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's really wild. Wait another one, the freaking Harrison Dean
oh in Olivia, Yes, where he's like end game, what is.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
You're my client? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (30:29):
And also this weird thing where she's passing the torch.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yes, yes, I love that.
Speaker 8 (30:34):
Scene because it's the first time she tries to patch
the torch. A couple of times over the course of
the series, but this, I think is the first time
you see her say I'm out. And I just kept
thinking how emotionally incredibly disappointing it is, how she always
has to do the right thing. And they did one
thing wrong, yeah, which was a big thing.
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Oh, they just read a little election.
Speaker 8 (30:58):
Hey, ye know, they did one thing wrong. But that
over and over and over again, she has to to
sacrifice that thing. You know where in the episode before
where they sit and they watch the clock and the album.
Speaker 6 (31:12):
Leaf time have run out.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
The album leaf stuff comes in, which is just like,
oh my god, and you know, Mellie's talking and she
realizes that it's actually really going to happen. And then
she starts this episode and she's she's like lighter. And
I keep watching the costumes too, in terms of what
people are wearing, like she's in a slightly sort of
like it feels slightly air and then little by little
(31:34):
by little, you see it dawn on her. And it's
a genius of Carrie, like you see it dawn on her.
Over the course of the episode that they can't do this,
that Cyrus is right.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
That he needs to get a second term and he's
got to win. I know you're right. Her acting at
the beginning of this episode, there's so much about her like,
oh my god, I'm going to get what I want.
I'm gonna not live this life. I'm going to be
with the man that I love. I can have normal
or whatever. Yeah, whatever that means to her. And then
you watch it slowly, act by act break down. She's
(32:06):
holding onto it and she's passing over Opa. She's done
being a fixer.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
She can do it. She can do it.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
And in that scene you guys were talking about the zoo,
she's still holding onto it. And then she starts. There's
that part where Cyrus is like, don't do this to me,
don't do this to us. Then she finds out about
the paper that he never submitted.
Speaker 6 (32:25):
That's the paper what's it called, what's it called?
Speaker 5 (32:27):
The thing saying that he wants to again, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Never submitted it because he didn't think he deserved it,
and so she ends their relationship again. It's just like,
they keep us on this line, man, for seven seasons.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
They keep us on this They.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
Super super do. But then I also am like, I
was so delighted about the fact that Charlie makes an
entrance and now there's a Charlie in the world as well.
But also I just have to say for the record,
and I will prove myself to be the idiot I am.
I totally had forgotten that Billy Chambers comes back.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Oh, I forgot too. I watched it. I was like, oh, Billy,
Billy Chambers, you're not alone.
Speaker 8 (33:11):
I the last time I saw Billy Chambers was he
was stabbing somebody with scissors.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like.
Speaker 8 (33:17):
To totally forgot that Billy Chambers is in the car, which, by.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
The way, speaking of table reads, sometimes y'all would do
that to us too, which is we wouldn't know what
the storyline of what was happening, and then all of
a sudden, Billy Chambers would come back, or Greg Henry
or somebody had been around in two years or something,
and then they'd come back and we're.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Like, what are you doing?
Speaker 6 (33:40):
Like we've learned that way that they're going to be
a part of it.
Speaker 8 (33:42):
Oh, and how long did it take me to understand
that Billy and Tom are brothers?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Matt and Brian Lesher.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
Yeah, Matt and Brian Lesher great actors.
Speaker 8 (33:52):
It took me like. It wasn't until somebody said, you
know their brothers.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I was like, really, wait, So we learned that Charlie
took the cidetron hard but it's okay.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
No, well we think he did, but it was really
it was really Rosen.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
It was David Rosen, yes, and he gave it to
Billy Chamber because.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
David Rosen is not happy with the election fraud and
he keeps making it clearer. No, it's listening to him.
All he wants to know is like, who's fits having
sex with? And you all did this really funny thing
where you keep going on that part. They take their
heads and they look around a lot, or they dip
their heads down.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Look down, look at each other, and he's like, oh,
I wonder who's banging the president and we all know
it's Olivia's that We're like, dude.
Speaker 8 (34:33):
It was also this great moment where Quinn obviously knows
how to dismember a body. At this point, you look
at Huck and you're so pleased with yourself.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
And Abby says, ooh baby, oh.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Baby, I say some shit about hacking We're like trying
to send a trojan horse to Sally Langston's daughter.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
That was it.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
I love this Sally Langston thing. And then it's David
Rosen who comes up with the thing.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
Yeah, who's like, you got to get the meanest mean girl.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Which is so true. That's true.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 8 (35:02):
And then there's that really funny picture of this girl
with this nose before a nose job that was so vicious.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
They must have built that, Like it looked so terrible
glue did you use like that?
Speaker 3 (35:17):
It was like nozola on her face.
Speaker 8 (35:19):
Wow, she was like the wicked witch in the Wizard
of Oz. Like.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
I was like, is that like Shylock from Merchant to
Venice likes Shakespeare?
Speaker 8 (35:28):
Katie Way to bring the level of the podcast up,
it looked really ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
I was like, this is so insane. Wait, some fun
facts about this episode. Sally says, the name of the
previous episode a woman scorn.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
She's doing a walk and.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
Talk down the White House hallways with Jeff and.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
She's like trying to find out information.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Yeah, Mellie's gonna come out tonight, She's gonna say it,
and well, you know, like the Bible says, hell, haf
no fury, like a woman scorned, and Jeff says something
like not everything's in the bally. Yeah, we should do
the whole series again and Guillermo should play in Cyrus. Okay,
since it wasn't said last time, it has been said
in almost every episode so far. According to the timeline
(36:11):
within the Scandal universe, Billy has been missing for a
year and six months.
Speaker 8 (36:17):
This is when I'm saying till like, this is what
I'm saying, What the hell? What's the deal?
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Right?
Speaker 6 (36:23):
I mean, where'd he go? What's he been doing?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
But how exciting when he pops back up right and like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 8 (36:30):
It's amazing, yo.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
One thing that I loved is one of the opening
scenes when Jeff Perry when Cyrus goes to Olivia's apartment
and is trying to get into the apartment and he's
yelling at Tom and the other guy, the other security
guy blowing his top again I know.
Speaker 8 (36:44):
And then don't you love it when he tries to
go back again and he has the assistant lie to
get him in. Oh yes, he gets there, and the
same thing happens this time it's Jake. It's just like
that man cannot get in that woman's apartment no matter
what he does.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Also, my god, how how much sex to fits in
Olivia I have to have in this series.
Speaker 8 (37:02):
It's like unbelievable. As I would say, I think most
of us. It either makes you feel like that's incredible
or I just feel bad about my life.
Speaker 6 (37:11):
Yeah, I just me.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
I always think, like, God, did they have to shoot
that at five am on like a one day?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I alwaysistically, was it like at worked that day?
Speaker 7 (37:22):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (37:22):
Oh oh, teacher, teacher, teacher.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Also Beetsy Beer, thank you?
Speaker 8 (37:28):
Did Josh Melina have a cold or the flu when
we were filming that episode?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Oh my god, Betsy, I thought the same thing.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
I remember that there was a couple of episodes where
he was like really sick. When he was describing the nose.
I turned to Bruce and I said, I remember this
because I remember we didn't know if we could shoot
with Josh because I think Josh had the flu or something.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
You could hear.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
This and I was like, Oh, no, someone's got a cold.
And you know what's so funny in this post COVID.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
World, like that would have never happened.
Speaker 6 (37:57):
Things have changed so much.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Were like if you're really sick like that, Like you
can't go on a set and expose all of your castmates.
Speaker 6 (38:04):
But the seven years of Scandal, we used to work,
oh full on fucking slugs. Oh you like, just get
it done.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
If you can stand and you can walk, you can act,
get it together.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
The only rule was you couldn't do love scenes if
you like had a fever or lots and lots of
snot right. So that was the only kind of waterloo.
But everybody would show up like hacking. Oh yeah, just
feeling sea dumbiting, he doesn't like a little diarrhea.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Gee, did you ever have to not come because you
were so sick?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 5 (38:40):
I remember the one time I almost didn't come. They
sent a doctor to my.
Speaker 8 (38:43):
House to make sure you could.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Yeah, and she gave me like a shot and like
a Z pack, and I was fine the next day.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah, I mean fine enough.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
How about when you came to work and you'd been
in the emergency room the whole night before because you,
by accident, were at a restaurant and had nuts and
you're definitely allergic, and your whole body blew up.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Yes, And then I got a cold sore on my lip,
and we had to do that sex scene in the
conference room and Tom was like, Okay, it's gonna be
from behind, so we weren't facing each other.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah, we had to adjust.
Speaker 8 (39:14):
That would be Tom Verica, our producer. Yes, of course
it's an actor, and not only was like the show
must go on, but figured out a way to film it.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Yep, on top of g on the conference wooden table.
We were supposed to make out and have sex, and
then he walked in and he was like, I'm so sorry,
I'm a cold sore. So I remembered Tom being like, oh,
it's okay.
Speaker 6 (39:35):
He could just flip you around and the whole thing
just happens from behind. I was like, okay, and we
did it.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
What season was that?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Was that?
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Like? Season three? I don't know your I think it's four.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
Idea, we'll get there. We will be back with more
after the break.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
We also forgot to talk about the scene with you,
me and George Newburn Katie. I love that when I
have him taped up and I'm about to shoot him
after he gives us gives me the name of the mole,
and then Katie walks in with this beautifully like dun
hair and like hot lipstick. Did you notice that you
were like all made up?
Speaker 8 (40:12):
Well, that was the thing. One of the things that
you do really notice is how shiny it is, Like
the whole show is super shiny. Everybody's up. It's a
really clean and pressed and you always look neat and
even after sex like fits. His shirts are crisp and
they come and Katie looked like, oh, just come off
like guest hosting Good Morning America.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
My hair was just had come out of a set
of rollers.
Speaker 8 (40:38):
You literally look like you're a guest hosting with Ryan Seacrest.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
Yeah, it was too much. I look better on this
show than.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
That, honestly, Like I was like, also, I mean somebody,
I think I've gotten better at acting since then. My god,
it is hard for me to sometimes watch these scenes.
Speaker 6 (40:55):
I'm like, what am I too doing? Like why, yeah.
Speaker 8 (40:59):
I'm so good, You're so high on stupidity.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
That's all in your head. We all need ourselves.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Nobody's thinking that how much chapstick lip gloss could I
possibly have on b Why am I talking like that?
Like why can't I just talk normal? Like what is happening?
I just am over the top acting and thank god,
Shanda and Betsy didn't kill Quinn off because I was like,
I am a failure, Like this.
Speaker 8 (41:27):
Is hysterical, you're such a weirdo, Like you're so good.
And the whole point is Quinn was from the moment
you meet her, she's over eager, she's performative, she's she
puts that out there. That's the whole point. The same
way Huck is, you know, a semi vegetable half the
time until he comes.
Speaker 6 (41:47):
Alive murdering people.
Speaker 8 (41:49):
I mean, what's great is you get to know Huck
is you go It's almost like there's a trigger that
was built into him that at a particular point he
has to kill, like this is all he was good for.
Oh and that characters. What's great to me is as
you watch the show progress over the seasons, everybody really
knows how to write for the characters as they are.
(42:10):
You all pivoted as your characters would change. That's the
most incredible thing. So no shit talking about one's performance.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
I say that to people all the time.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I feel really lucky, Like I think a lot of
times if you're if you're an actor and you're lucky
enough to land lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
When you do, or if you do.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Most of the times the character you book is how
they stay for seven years, like especially on a sitcom
or especially like it is very rare for your character
to change. And that's what I thought was so awesome
about Scandal was like I got to do.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
The craziest shit in the whole world.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
And if you had showed me Quen season five, six
seven compared to one, two, three and all the I
mean the characters.
Speaker 7 (42:56):
Melilly, Smelly, Melly, Yeah season two, like Mellie is she's
very self righteous and she's doing that low ballomy voice,
and she's wearing her suit and she's.
Speaker 8 (43:10):
Very angry about everything. And then you think about where
we got to where you have, and so much of
it to me, in terms of the writing, is about
I've always said about this company, about what Shonda creates
and the writers. Everybody's three dimensional. As you start to
get to know a character, you think you know them,
and then something comes out, either in flashback or backstory
(43:30):
or their Achilles heel, and everything changes about how you
feel about those characters. And to the point where you know,
Olivia Pope brains the vice president with a chair.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
That's right, and you're kind of like.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
You had it coming well and also even fits killing Verna,
like all that shit was like.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
What, yeah, how about the season where Fitz was just
a drunk, like just a mean, fucking drunk.
Speaker 6 (43:57):
Sure, he's like awful to Melly.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
He's after he got shot.
Speaker 8 (44:01):
It's also like you meet us dad and you understand
the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Barry boss Wick like.
Speaker 8 (44:08):
Oh, the poor Barry Poster. I mean he was like
the Robert bridegrim on Broadway and there he was just
being terrible. But yeah, No, it's those layers and depth
and the fact that very often the plot, which is
so incredibly engaging and involving, reveals not only another plot
point that either traumatizes or changes the way that you
(44:30):
operate as characters, but reveals something deeper that you didn't
know existed, which then allows the character to keep growing.
It's really cool and incredibly layered.
Speaker 6 (44:40):
We felt very, very very lucky to do that.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
Wait, fortunately, before we let you go, and we're going
to read some tweets at the time, was there any
of your favorite memories that come to mind.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
Like meeting me and Katie for the first time, Well,
i'd met you.
Speaker 8 (44:57):
Before, Gamo, so I was so excited to see you
because it was like a creepy reunion where I, like
you first meet. He was in two hundred Cigarettes, which
was the first movie I produced, and Ghirmo was hysterical
and really really good in the movie.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
It's like a cult underground, like people love them. It's
such a great movie.
Speaker 8 (45:17):
So I loved Gharma like and Ghirmou did me the
ultimate solid, which we talked about in the podcast, which
is yes, it's a long story, but he ended up
playing Angie Featherstone in the back of a cap so
I wouldn't have to dye my hair carrot orange and
do a double for her because she wasn't with us anymore.
She hadn't die, she just had to go on to
another job. But I remember distinctly like being really excited
(45:38):
to see Gheramo, and I'd met you a couple of times, Katie,
because we came really close to casting you twice before,
and we also had You've been You were in Gray's
Anatomy too, weren't you.
Speaker 6 (45:48):
Yeah, I'm private practice.
Speaker 8 (45:49):
Yeah, And I remember Seanda said, you get to call
Ghirrimo and tell me about the part because you know
him and you love him. So I got to call Ghirrimo.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yes, yes, yes, I remember that.
Speaker 8 (45:59):
Yes I got to call Gaermeau. But you know what,
there's so much the casting process was really fun. I
don't know if they're all of these weird because we
all we all would hang out together too. Sometimes I would,
I would see you all.
Speaker 6 (46:10):
Yeah, we went upfronts together. We went two things together.
Speaker 8 (46:14):
I remember, do you remember these sacks fit the avenue
window things?
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yes, Oh my god, we were Mannikins.
Speaker 8 (46:20):
We took over Sacksmith Avenue and they had sacks with
avenue hosted. I think was Lynn pallow Is, the costume
our brilliant costume designer who worked with a lot since
and we sort of took over sacks We had this
big party and there were all of these scandal mannequins
with clothes on in the sax window, and all the
actors climbed into the windows and stood next to their mannequins.
(46:40):
And we couldn't get out of like a hotel without
bringing you guys through the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
It was Inese. Yes, we walked through so many kids.
Speaker 8 (46:48):
We went through so many kitchens in those days. So
I remember, like all of those times the table reads.
I remarily really well, and I remember realizing when the
show was going to hit and sitting everyone down because
we've been through with Grays and as I mean, I
remember sitting down with you all and basically saying, Okay,
so your lives are going to change and you have
(47:08):
to be prepared for the fact that it's going to
get really weird. And Katie was like, what do you mean.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Oh yeah, I was like, why what are you talking about?
This is what I remember, though, you guys being so
giving and saying like, if you need anything, if something happens,
like you get a fender bender, all the shit, you
call me, call me. I don't want to find out
Monday morning and the trade like you know, you guys
had already been through a hit happening on Grays and
(47:36):
it's skyrocketing so quickly. I think the greatest thing that
happened to Scandal with it was a little bit more
of a slower burn that people got turned onto the
show like it was like it builds it was season two.
Speaker 8 (47:47):
Yeah, it was like a bad season one under your belt.
But the weirdest thing about it was because it didn't
shoot out like a cannon when we started The weirdest
thing was you were already used to it being fine
to do whatever you wanted to do. You were going
into like Loman's dressing room. So what everybody needs to
know is like their Lomans was the store where you
went in. There were communal dressing rooms. They had them
in New York and different stores, And if you're from
(48:08):
the East Coast, you're really used to this. And we
found out as the show was becoming gigantic that Katie
was still going into Lomans in the public dressing room
and change your clothes. And I remember specifically saying, Katie,
you can't go in the public dressing rooms anymore. Nope,
because you're going to end up in your bronz panting.
Speaker 6 (48:28):
People are going to take photos of me and your
underwear on the intranet.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Yeah no, thank God said something to me. I was like,
I think things are starting to get weird.
Speaker 8 (48:39):
The sales, you missed, the.
Speaker 6 (48:41):
Sales, sales all the time.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Listen to some tweets at a time, y'all is the
best improv.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Artists and Whistler apparently.
Speaker 6 (49:00):
Wait, Betsy, did you join the Twitter for this show?
Like we all did? I'm not on it. Much anymore.
Speaker 8 (49:05):
But I joined the tweets kate for this show specifically,
and now I'm not.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yeah wait should I be off Twitter? Yes? Do I
need to get off Twitter? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (49:15):
Right, I'm not off. I just don't check it or
go on it for age.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
It's so sad and angry.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Now, I know what I like about these is that
it was a real time capsule for what was going on.
Like at official JP Peace and Power Planet is coming.
Me and my brother just had the ill convo trying
to figure out who the mole is on hashtag scandal.
Speaker 6 (49:36):
This fool thinks it's fits. Lol, Guys the.
Speaker 5 (49:39):
Mole, that damn mole and then do better, y'all. At
Miss Lynn ninety three tweeted, wait, what if how is
the mole? I knew he blinked too much hashtag scandal.
Speaker 6 (49:50):
This is a good one.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
At sunny Chaie tweeted, So I just told a friend
that I think Harrison is the mole on Scandal.
Speaker 6 (49:55):
I think she just about passed out. Lol. We both
hope and I'm wrong. Here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (50:00):
People were invested, man, They really were trying to figure
out who the male was.
Speaker 4 (50:04):
We're so invested. And my favorite line of the episode
might be. Quinn was like, if I say the word
mole one more.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
One more time? Yes, that was so good and you were.
Speaker 8 (50:15):
Right, Betsy, Thank you so thank so much, so much fun.
Anytime you just want me on to talk randomly about
shit that has nothing to do with anything.
Speaker 5 (50:25):
We definitely want to have you back on. We should
switch the roles and have her host and you and
I be the guests on on this podcast.
Speaker 6 (50:31):
Yeah, because she's such a better host than.
Speaker 8 (50:34):
Guys are so full of shit. Your eyes are brown.
Speaker 6 (50:38):
I've never heard that before.
Speaker 8 (50:39):
Thank you so much for having me. This was so
much fun. I didn't have to work for like an hour.
Speaker 4 (50:43):
This was so great And now you have so much
to do. And next up we've got the finale of
season two, episode two two, which is so good. White
hats back on people, and I think we have a
very very very another very special guest in our back
pocket coming. So make sure you tune into all your
friends like subscribe Unpacking the tool Yes at Girmo, how
(51:03):
do we say it en Espano.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
De Ramientas Unpacking the Toolbox and.
Speaker 6 (51:09):
Espanol Adeos Gladiators.
Speaker 5 (51:11):
Thank you everybody, by Betsy, thank you guys for joining
us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show,
please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us
a review.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce, Lauren Homan,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince De Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Unpacking the
Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app
or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Guillermo Díaz
Katie Lowes
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