October 4, 2023 • 26 mins
When Troy realizes his youngest children are missing, can he depend on their mother to help him find them?
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Is that.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Okay, do you have enough friends?
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:07):
Okay, me too, but you can.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Move back four more interesting.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
Beth Carris and I are in Gaithersburg, Maryland, stuffing ourselves
into this car and about to go on a ride
along of sorts. We've asked Troy to help us recreate
what must have been one of the most frightening, chaotic,
and terrifying days of his life.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So I went up into here and then came back
down this way.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Beth is in the back, and I'm upfront with Troy,
who's driving. He's our tour guide today and has agreed
to bring us back to September eighth, twenty fourteen, the
day everything changed.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Probably the first place we could hit would be where
Jacob went missing from on the way back, and then
from there we'll go to Clarksburg and start from there.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I'm Sarah Trelevin and this is Unrestorable, an original podcast
from Anonymous content and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Where are we?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
We are entering what they call Darnstown or North Potomac,
which is actually still Gaithersburg.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
We just drove through what looks like a pretty nice neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, this is Lakeland's here, and then We're going to
come out on twenty eight up here, and that'll take
us right out to where Lindsay used to live.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
It's been about nine years since Troy has seen or
heard from his two youngest kids, Sarah three and Jacob two.
They were last seen with their mother, Catherine Hogle, and
despite her insistence that no harm has ever come to them,
police charged her with the children's murders, but she has
yet to face those charges in court. Years of mental
(02:02):
health problems led to Catherine being deemed incompetent, in other words,
unable to assist in her own defense. So for the
past nine years, Catherine has called the Clifton T. Perkins
Hospital Center, a psychiatric institution home. At the time that
his kids went missing, Troy and Catherine were still together
(02:22):
trying to raise their three kids, but Catherine's mental health
had been deteriorating and she'd been in and out of
mental health facilities. Her parents, especially her mother Lindsay, had
been helping with the kids, but even with his mother
in law's help, Troy was basically a single parent. He
was the one who did all the cooking and cleaning.
He made sure that the kids got to school and
(02:44):
gave them baths when they got home.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Two o'clock is when I picked her up from the
day program.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Troy spent the night of September seventh, twenty fourteen, at
work and the next day, September eighth, running errants that
included picking Catherine up from the psychiatric hospital, where she
attended a day program from morning through early afternoon.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I fell up, she's not out there. Finally she comes
walking out a little bit after two thirty, so I'm like,
what the heck is going on? You know, She's like, oh,
I got, you know, hung up talking with this counselor
and this and whatever all eyes Later on, I find
out because when I look at her phone records, she
actually was trying to call CAPS.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Troy was irritated because he didn't want to be late
to pick up his oldest son, who would soon be
dropped off by the school bus. But Catherine was normal,
fine to Troy. She was acting like it was any
other day.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I said, my little man can't be waiting.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
The plan was to pick up their oldest son and
then get Sarah and Jacob from daycare.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And where did she tell you?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Like?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Was she like, oh, they're in this neighborhood. They're near
this complex much as they.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Were in daycare, So there was nothing really said at
this point because I thought I knew which one we
were going to.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Troy and Catherine had been discussing sending the two youngest
kids to daycare. They had talked about different options, but
that morning, when Troy woke up after working a late shift,
the kids weren't there. Catherine had made a decision to
take them to daycare, she told him. Not being consulted
about that decision definitely bothered Troy. But also Catherine wasn't
(04:14):
supposed to be driving because of the medication she was on,
and apparently she had driven both kids that morning. And
at this point, are you thinking anything's wrong other than like,
maybe this is a bit annoying.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
No, I'm thinking, I'm going to go get my kids
from the daycare and I'll determine, you know, if I
want them to go back to that daycare. But I'm
thinking also what I need to do to make sure
that she's not even awake when I'm not around them,
if I need to have her not there at all,
because she's gonna, you know, full craft like this.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Over the past few months, it had become clear to
Troy that Catherine could not be trusted to be alone
with her kids. The family questioned her ability to make
decisions and worried about the impact of the medication she
was taking. Lindsay says that Catherine would sometimes be so
drugged that she would fall into a deep sleep, impossible
to wake. Other times, Catherine seemed paranoid or confused or angry,
(05:11):
making the other adults around her uncomfortable and worried about
the children's safety. So as a family, they had decided
that Catherine could not be alone with the children. Troy
or her mother Lindsay or her father Randy had to
be around. Troy's life for the year leading up to
this event had been characterized by hypervigilants, the fear that
(05:33):
Catherine might in some way endanger the kids, even if
she didn't mean to hurt them. A unilateral move like this,
the loss of control to someone with a history of
making irrational decisions, was exactly what Troy had been afraid of,
But up until this day this car ride, no one
imagined that Catherine would actively hurt the kids. The day
(06:02):
of September eighth begins with Troy being woken up by
his oldest son before the alarm clock even goes off.
Troy needs to start their day, make breakfast for all
three kids, and it's so early that Troy just assumes
that his two youngest kids, Sarah and Jacob, are still asleep.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I notice Jacob is not in his crib, which is
actually in my room still, but it was normal for
him to climb out and go to my oldest bed.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Looking back, Troy now sees that there were hints that
things were off, but things have been off for so
long that the unusual had begun to feel somewhat normal.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
What was also not as normal, but fairly normals for
all three of them to be in the same bed
by the morning. So I look at in Sarah's She's
not there. Something.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Next, Troy goes into his eldest son's bedroom, expecting to
see the youngest kids asleep together.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Instead, the room is empty.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So then I'm like, you know, okay, so they're not here.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Troy looks out the window and sees that his car
is gone too. When he calls Catherine's cell phone, he
sees it vibrating on the coffee table. He calls Lindsay,
Catherine's mother, but she has no idea where Catherine, Sarah
or Jacob are.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I said, okay, and I get my oldest ready, get
him on the bus. I didn't want to free came out.
It seems I got him on a bus. I called
nine one one.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
That might seem extreme, I know, but things had become
so chaotic that Troy didn't want to take any chances.
But just as Troy's connecting with a nine to one
to one dispatcher, Troy sees Catherine pull up in their car.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I go to the car, What the hell is going
on based you know? And she's like, oh, well, I
took them to daycare. I said, hold on, I said
you're not.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
And where are we heading now?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So right now we're heading to Clarksburg.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And what's in Clarksburg.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's the apartment we lived.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
In with Troy believing his two youngest kids are in
daycare and his oldest safely at school. His day is
relatively stress free, but that irritated feeling he gets around
Catherine settles in as soon as he picks her up
from her day program at the hospital. She's running late,
and Troy is worried they will be late picking up
their eldest son.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I was like, yeah, so let's go.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
They make it on time to meet the school bus.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Next it's off to get the two babies off to
a daycare that Troy has never been to but thinks
he knows.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I got ready to turn, but she said go, you know, continue.
She was like, no, not that one. She was like,
it's down farther. I said, oh, I thought. She was like, no,
there's the one right behind me. So I keep going right.
So if we're driving here and I'm going, okay, well,
I'm like, there's no daycares right over here? Is there?
And she was like, not that I know of.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Catherine tells Troy to keep driving, but things are getting
very confusing, and.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I was like, so you're positive it's in Germantown and
she said yeah. I said, well, we're in Gaithersburg now,
so I need to make a U turn.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
And the farther they go, the more it's clear that
Catherine is fuzzy on where she left their two youngest kids.
And Catherine is just sort of almost treating this like
you're having kind of a trivial argument, like it's not
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
What are you getting so upset about?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Right? Exactly. Her tone is kind of like, I don't
understand why you're so.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Angry for Troy.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
It was infuriating Catherine, seeming nonchalance about picking up Sarah
and Jacob.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I said, so, what's of the play is called? I
don't know? Okay, Well what road is it on? I
don't remember the name of the street, Troy, I said,
you don't remember what's called. No, well, give me their
phone number. I'll call them right now. I'm literally in
this lane in this conversation Safen. And that's when she said,
(09:58):
I don't have their phone though. And then I looked
at her. This light was red. I stopped and I
looked at her. I said, let me get this straight.
You took my kids and dropped them off at a daycare.
You don't know the name of it, you don't have
an address, you don't know what street it's on, you
have no idea where it is, and you don't have
a phone number. And she looked at me, and that's
(10:19):
when she said, well, they have my number. And that's
whenever I felt like I was going to explode.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
But out of the corner of his eye, Troy sees
his son, his eldest who's there in the backseat and
he's hearing.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
All of this, and I said, okay, I can't do that.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Before Troy can go any further, he needs someone to
take his eldest son. So Troy calls Catherine's mother, Lindsey.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I said, I want you to take my son. And
Catherine was like, what are you doing? And I said,
what do you mean? What am I doing? I'm having
your mom meet us. He's going to go with her
and she was like, he's not going with her. I said, yes,
see it, And so she's going we'll go pick up
you know, Sarah and Jacob. And I said, I said, no,
(11:08):
we're going to go pick him up. I said, but first,
we're going to meet your mom here.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Troy pulls over to the side of the road to
wait for Lindsay, who shows up ten minutes later, but
Catherine is shaken out of complacency when Lindsay shows up
and separates Catherine from her eldest son. She was adamant
that Lindsay not take him. It seemed to trigger something
desperate furious in Catherine.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
She starts going, well, he's not going through I'm like, yes, yes, yes,
And she's telling her mom, Mom, just leave, just leaving
unless going now. I'm not leaving without him at this point,
and Troy wants me to take him.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
You know, all of this behavior is clearly troubling.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Catherine had been struggling for years, but today this is
all new. In the months leading up to this, Catherine
was fine with her mother's involvement in their lives. Lindsay
had been a safe harbor for the family. She'd picked
up huge amounts of slack as a mother and grandmother.
But here and now, Catherine seems determined not to be
separated from her oldest son. Troy ignores her and picks
(12:07):
up their son, putting him in the back of Lindsay's car,
and I tell.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Her go, she pulls off. Catherine starts banging on the
back of her car while she's pulling off and screaming
obscenities at her. I said, what the hell's wrong with you?
She said, I don't trust her with him. I said
that's not true. She's watched him a million times. So
I said, so where are we going to get him?
(12:33):
And she goes, well, they're up here. She said, fine,
let's go get him because I want to go get him.
As soon as possible from her.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
At this point, Troy is wondering if this is some
kind of game, a control thing, maybe punishment for the
last year, for the rules, the hospitalizations, for telling Catherine
how she could be a mom. Maybe Catherine feels like
she's in trouble again, yet again, letting down her family.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
At this point, I'm not really scared because I can
my kids are in the daycare and we're going to
pick them up. But I'm feeling.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right before the kids went missing, Catherine had been getting
regular treatment, she was being medicated. Troy wondered if maybe
they could start enjoying life's mundane moments again. But now
Troy is wondering if maybe he'd been in denial that
in reality they could never really be a family, And
maybe he has no idea what Catherine is actually capable of.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
We drive up here and I'm asking her, you know
where there are things like that? And she says, well,
you know where it is?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
This right here here was the daycare.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
He knew it was close to the one where his
oldest had gone before he started school.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So are you telling me that they're at the daycare
where we put the oldest? And she said no, I said,
so some one right behind it. That's what you're telling me.
We're gonna go there and pick him up now. And
she said, well, no, not that one. I said, well,
it was the only two over here. So at that
point I got the car. I opened up that door,
and I'm saying above her, I'm gonna where are my kids?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
And say sorry, you get out, walk around and open
her door.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Right and I'm gonna where are my kids? And she goes,
They're in daycare, Troy, you know, And I said, tell
me where my kids are? And whatever it is inside
of me, I can't put my hands on woman. I
wanted to yank her out and grab her and like
force her to talk, but I just can't put my
hands on a woman out of anger, and I didn't.
(14:38):
It may sound terrible, say I wish I could at
this point. I wish I was one of those dudes
like it in that moment only, but just not. I
couldn't do it. So there's all kinds of things going
in my mind. I could make her talk, but nothing's happening.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Troy is losing control, but he knows he needs to
stay calm. He's picturing Sarah and Jacobs sitting at some
daycare god knows where, feeling forgotten the only kids whose
parents haven't come to pick them up. But he's also
desperately hanging onto the hope that he'll see their faces
looking up at him when he finally gets there. Are
(15:12):
you thinking at this point that maybe she doesn't know
where the kids are, or maybe she's forgotten or anything.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
No, she's nothing with it.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Or even since showing any signs of having this psychotic
break with no memory or any nothing like that. She's
not even acting like in terms of what I've seen
is in her mental illness when it's acting up or
bad or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Are the two of you talking about anything as this
goes on.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I have nothing to say to her. I just want
to get my kids, get them home, get them in bed,
and then put her ass out. That's all I'm thinking.
At this point.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
She's thinking like I'm sending her to her parents or whatever,
or the street.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I don't care. At this point. She's a danger to
my kids, So I'm just done.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Driving from place to place. Troy's desperation grows. It's now
after six pm. The traffic is thinning as other people
make at home to spend the evening with their families,
to make dinner for their kids. When they pull up
to a church that Catherine has directed Troy to, he
feels a slight pang of relief when he sees a
playground and some toys. At this point, any sign of
(16:23):
children is a good thing.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So we go there. There's a young lady there who
runs the daycare, but all the kids are gone.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
The woman who runs the daycare confirms that Sarah and
Jacob were never there, that she's never seen Catherine before.
Catherine asked to use the bathroom, then comes back out
and joins Troy in the car.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
So what she did inside What turns out is she
asked to use phone. She called her mom repeatedly and
tried to get her to bring the oldest back. Well,
it turns out her mom told her was that you know,
as soon as you produced the other two, then you'll
see him.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Troy knows this is serious, but what are his options.
Catherine is the only one who knows where Sarah and
Jacob are, and if he doesn't play her game or
whatever this is, then maybe she'll just decide not to
tell him. They start driving again.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I was like, is it this one? She was like, nah,
not that one. I pointed out, like pretty much every
church on was it this one? Is it this one?
Is this one? The whole way up there?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
You know, at this point, Catherine was not supposed to
be alone, unsupervised with the children.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Just a reminder that Beth Carris is in the car
with us as well.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I mean, maybe you didn't want to go there in
your mind that she had done something with the children,
but there was a reason why she wasn't supposed to
be alone with.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Them, right right, And it wasn't that anyone actually at
that point believed that she would physically purposely hurt them.
It was more of the decision making stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
But it's at this point, close to seven pm, the
sun starting to dip, that the worst case scenario must
be starting to creep into Troy's mind. Troy and Catherine
had been in the car for more than four hours
when they arrived at one more daycare, and this one
is still open. Troy is sure that this is the
(18:18):
one that he's going to walk through those doors and
see his children. As he pulls up, he can feel
his heart pounding in his chest.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I pulled into there was actually this middle spot here.
There was nothing here. There was like one car parked
in the back there. So I'm going, so this is way,
she says, yes. So I get out, walk quickly to
the door. Here go inside, and I'm so sorry I'm late.
(18:49):
You know, I came to get my kids and the
ladies looking at me, going, ain't no kids here. I'm going, uh,
you know, I give their names, like Sarah and Jacobs.
She was like, no, bought my phone. I showed her
a picture on like these two and she's like they
were never here. She was like, we've never seen them.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Troy changes his mind.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
At this moment, whatever Catherine is doing, whatever game she's playing,
he's done.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I'm thinking I'm going to the police station to basically
have them do whatever they need to do to find
out where my kids are. And I'm thinking that I
need to get there before I lose control over my
emotions at this point. You know, this is it's just
too much. At this point, I'm like this, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So you're like really feeling on the edge here, Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And it's at this point I still don't think in
my mind she physically hurt my kids, but I'm thinking
she has left my kids somewhere where no one is
except maybe one person sitting there, you know, because there's
two kids stuck there, who's probably gonna call the police
or CPS, thinking that they've been abandoned. She owes, why
are we pulling down here? And I said to the
(20:08):
police station is here? We're going to the police station.
When I said that to her about right here, and
she was like, we don't need to involve, We don't
need to do that. I said, yes we do. I said,
my kids aren't here. I don't know where you put them,
so I need to have the police help me find them. Apparently,
and then she owes they're on Betheta church road.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Catherine plays this like she's folding, giving up the game,
like Troy has won and now she is going to
really actually tell him where he can find Sarah and Jacob.
Or maybe she's bargaining against something that terrifies her. Lindsey
told me that when Catherine was involuntarily committed, she was
handcuffed by police and taken away in front of her children,
(20:54):
and that she'd had a paralyzing fear of police. There
are red and blue lights and the loud sirens in
the distance.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Since I was like, what are you talking about? She said,
there's a daycom Beth's Church Road. That's where I put them.
And I said, so, why wouldn't you have just said
that before so we could have went and picked up.
She said, because they actually have extended to stay there
till like eight o'clock. And I was like, no one
does that, that's not real. She was like, well, she's
like out there, they do, she said, because parents get
home much later because traffic is farther out. Now.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
At this point, it's near dark and Troy is done,
done with Catherine, done with the wild goose chase. Plus
he can't dismiss his creeping sense of alarm. He feels
a tug towards the police station. But he also can't
let go of the hope that the kids will be
at the next daycare, that after a long and frustrating day,
his life will return to what looks like normal. So
(21:44):
he agrees to drive to Bethesda Church Road, but first
Catherine pleads with him to stop for a soda. Her
medication is kicking in, she says, and she's feeling tired.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
All right, I said, we'll go right here hit it up.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Troy and Catherine pull into the parking lot of a
fast food chicken sandwich place. There's a drive through, but
Troy parks the car.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I park right here, literally right here, in this spot,
and we got out, walked in.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Catherine gets a soda, and the two of them head
back to the car. Troy is hopeful that the next
daycare is the right one, that Sarah and Jacob will
be back in his arms as soon as he can
get there. But Catherine stops. She says her cup is
already empty. She wants to get a refill, so she's
nice and alert when they go pick up the kids.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I said, well, hurry up, I said, I want
to go get my babies.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Troy gets in the car.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
He's antsy, and he starts it up in anticipation of
Catherine returning any second.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Then approximately three minutes past, and that's when it hit me.
You don't stand in line for refills here.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Desperate, Troy runs back into the store.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So don't see her anywhere. So she's not in line,
she's not off to side getting a refill. She's nowhere inside.
Walk into the men's bathroom. Walking into the women's bathroom. Nothing,
She's just gone.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And now what's going through your mind?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
What's going through my mind now is just panic.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Troy and knows where his next stop has to be.
The police station is right across the street. He parks
in front and runs inside.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So like, I go in, there's like the window where
you tell them you know why you're there or whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Troy frantically calls Lindsay, his own mother, Catherine's dad, Randy.
Full panic has set in as he tells the cops
what he's been.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Through that day, Like, go do whatever you gotta do.
I'm sure you have to question me. Let's get that
out of the way. You know. It was like whatever
you got to do to get to actually finding my kids,
just do it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Lindsay arrives at the police station.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So Lindsay goes, I've been searching daycare for nowhere any
of them in Germantown. I've driven to all on with
and like what, like how long have you been doing it?
And what is going on here? And she said, I've
been worried kind of you know, says she didn't come
back with Jacob last night. And I said what, and
she goes, yeah, she came back without Jacob last night.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Catherine had come home without Jacob the night before.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I said, what the hell are you talking about, Lindsay,
She goes, you didn't know Jacob wasn't there last night?
I said no, I said no. One told me that
with this.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
It all comes crashing down that morning when Troy came
home from working the night shift and he couldn't find
his two youngest kids when Catherine was gone, and so
was the car. Remember, Troy had started to call nine
one one, but Catherine came home then and told him
she'd taken the kids to daycare. It never occurred to
Troy that she'd been lying. It never occurred to him
(25:04):
that the kids hadn't spent the night in their beds,
that the kids had been missing since the night before.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I'm thinking, you know, like what's going on? Like this
is insane, Like where are my kids? And that's kind
of all I'm really think. It's just where are my kids?
What's going on here? Like I have to find them?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Next time? On Unrestorable.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The next morning, I get a call and they're asking
myself and Randy to come in and saying, look, she
won't tell us where the kids are. Maybe She'll tell
you guys, come ask her.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Unrestorable is executive produced and hosted by Me, Sarah Trulevin,
and Beth Carris. Our story editor is Kathleen Goldhar. Mixing
and sound designed by Reza Dyah for anonymous content. Jessica
Grimshaw is our executive producer. Jennifer Sears is our executive
in charge of production, and Nick Yanas is our legal council.
For iHeart executive producer Christina Everett and supervising producer Abu
(26:08):
Zafar
Is that.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Okay, do you have enough friends?
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:07):
Okay, me too, but you can.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Move back four more interesting.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
Beth Carris and I are in Gaithersburg, Maryland, stuffing ourselves
into this car and about to go on a ride
along of sorts. We've asked Troy to help us recreate
what must have been one of the most frightening, chaotic,
and terrifying days of his life.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So I went up into here and then came back
down this way.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Beth is in the back, and I'm upfront with Troy,
who's driving. He's our tour guide today and has agreed
to bring us back to September eighth, twenty fourteen, the
day everything changed.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Probably the first place we could hit would be where
Jacob went missing from on the way back, and then
from there we'll go to Clarksburg and start from there.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I'm Sarah Trelevin and this is Unrestorable, an original podcast
from Anonymous content and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Where are we?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
We are entering what they call Darnstown or North Potomac,
which is actually still Gaithersburg.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
We just drove through what looks like a pretty nice neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, this is Lakeland's here, and then We're going to
come out on twenty eight up here, and that'll take
us right out to where Lindsay used to live.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
It's been about nine years since Troy has seen or
heard from his two youngest kids, Sarah three and Jacob two.
They were last seen with their mother, Catherine Hogle, and
despite her insistence that no harm has ever come to them,
police charged her with the children's murders, but she has
yet to face those charges in court. Years of mental
(02:02):
health problems led to Catherine being deemed incompetent, in other words,
unable to assist in her own defense. So for the
past nine years, Catherine has called the Clifton T. Perkins
Hospital Center, a psychiatric institution home. At the time that
his kids went missing, Troy and Catherine were still together
(02:22):
trying to raise their three kids, but Catherine's mental health
had been deteriorating and she'd been in and out of
mental health facilities. Her parents, especially her mother Lindsay, had
been helping with the kids, but even with his mother
in law's help, Troy was basically a single parent. He
was the one who did all the cooking and cleaning.
He made sure that the kids got to school and
(02:44):
gave them baths when they got home.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Two o'clock is when I picked her up from the
day program.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Troy spent the night of September seventh, twenty fourteen, at
work and the next day, September eighth, running errants that
included picking Catherine up from the psychiatric hospital, where she
attended a day program from morning through early afternoon.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I fell up, she's not out there. Finally she comes
walking out a little bit after two thirty, so I'm like,
what the heck is going on? You know, She's like, oh,
I got, you know, hung up talking with this counselor
and this and whatever all eyes Later on, I find
out because when I look at her phone records, she
actually was trying to call CAPS.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Troy was irritated because he didn't want to be late
to pick up his oldest son, who would soon be
dropped off by the school bus. But Catherine was normal,
fine to Troy. She was acting like it was any
other day.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I said, my little man can't be waiting.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
The plan was to pick up their oldest son and
then get Sarah and Jacob from daycare.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And where did she tell you?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Like?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Was she like, oh, they're in this neighborhood. They're near
this complex much as they.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Were in daycare, So there was nothing really said at
this point because I thought I knew which one we
were going to.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Troy and Catherine had been discussing sending the two youngest
kids to daycare. They had talked about different options, but
that morning, when Troy woke up after working a late shift,
the kids weren't there. Catherine had made a decision to
take them to daycare, she told him. Not being consulted
about that decision definitely bothered Troy. But also Catherine wasn't
(04:14):
supposed to be driving because of the medication she was on,
and apparently she had driven both kids that morning. And
at this point, are you thinking anything's wrong other than like,
maybe this is a bit annoying.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
No, I'm thinking, I'm going to go get my kids
from the daycare and I'll determine, you know, if I
want them to go back to that daycare. But I'm
thinking also what I need to do to make sure
that she's not even awake when I'm not around them,
if I need to have her not there at all,
because she's gonna, you know, full craft like this.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Over the past few months, it had become clear to
Troy that Catherine could not be trusted to be alone
with her kids. The family questioned her ability to make
decisions and worried about the impact of the medication she
was taking. Lindsay says that Catherine would sometimes be so
drugged that she would fall into a deep sleep, impossible
to wake. Other times, Catherine seemed paranoid or confused or angry,
(05:11):
making the other adults around her uncomfortable and worried about
the children's safety. So as a family, they had decided
that Catherine could not be alone with the children. Troy
or her mother Lindsay or her father Randy had to
be around. Troy's life for the year leading up to
this event had been characterized by hypervigilants, the fear that
(05:33):
Catherine might in some way endanger the kids, even if
she didn't mean to hurt them. A unilateral move like this,
the loss of control to someone with a history of
making irrational decisions, was exactly what Troy had been afraid of,
But up until this day this car ride, no one
imagined that Catherine would actively hurt the kids. The day
(06:02):
of September eighth begins with Troy being woken up by
his oldest son before the alarm clock even goes off.
Troy needs to start their day, make breakfast for all
three kids, and it's so early that Troy just assumes
that his two youngest kids, Sarah and Jacob, are still asleep.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I notice Jacob is not in his crib, which is
actually in my room still, but it was normal for
him to climb out and go to my oldest bed.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Looking back, Troy now sees that there were hints that
things were off, but things have been off for so
long that the unusual had begun to feel somewhat normal.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
What was also not as normal, but fairly normals for
all three of them to be in the same bed
by the morning. So I look at in Sarah's She's
not there. Something.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Next, Troy goes into his eldest son's bedroom, expecting to
see the youngest kids asleep together.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Instead, the room is empty.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So then I'm like, you know, okay, so they're not here.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Troy looks out the window and sees that his car
is gone too. When he calls Catherine's cell phone, he
sees it vibrating on the coffee table. He calls Lindsay,
Catherine's mother, but she has no idea where Catherine, Sarah
or Jacob are.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I said, okay, and I get my oldest ready, get
him on the bus. I didn't want to free came out.
It seems I got him on a bus. I called
nine one one.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
That might seem extreme, I know, but things had become
so chaotic that Troy didn't want to take any chances.
But just as Troy's connecting with a nine to one
to one dispatcher, Troy sees Catherine pull up in their car.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I go to the car, What the hell is going
on based you know? And she's like, oh, well, I
took them to daycare. I said, hold on, I said
you're not.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
And where are we heading now?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So right now we're heading to Clarksburg.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And what's in Clarksburg.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's the apartment we lived.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
In with Troy believing his two youngest kids are in
daycare and his oldest safely at school. His day is
relatively stress free, but that irritated feeling he gets around
Catherine settles in as soon as he picks her up
from her day program at the hospital. She's running late,
and Troy is worried they will be late picking up
their eldest son.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I was like, yeah, so let's go.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
They make it on time to meet the school bus.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Next it's off to get the two babies off to
a daycare that Troy has never been to but thinks
he knows.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I got ready to turn, but she said go, you know, continue.
She was like, no, not that one. She was like,
it's down farther. I said, oh, I thought. She was like, no,
there's the one right behind me. So I keep going right.
So if we're driving here and I'm going, okay, well,
I'm like, there's no daycares right over here? Is there?
And she was like, not that I know of.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Catherine tells Troy to keep driving, but things are getting
very confusing, and.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I was like, so you're positive it's in Germantown and
she said yeah. I said, well, we're in Gaithersburg now,
so I need to make a U turn.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
And the farther they go, the more it's clear that
Catherine is fuzzy on where she left their two youngest kids.
And Catherine is just sort of almost treating this like
you're having kind of a trivial argument, like it's not
a big deal.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
What are you getting so upset about?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Right? Exactly. Her tone is kind of like, I don't
understand why you're so.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Angry for Troy.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
It was infuriating Catherine, seeming nonchalance about picking up Sarah
and Jacob.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I said, so, what's of the play is called? I
don't know? Okay, Well what road is it on? I
don't remember the name of the street, Troy, I said,
you don't remember what's called. No, well, give me their
phone number. I'll call them right now. I'm literally in
this lane in this conversation Safen. And that's when she said,
(09:58):
I don't have their phone though. And then I looked
at her. This light was red. I stopped and I
looked at her. I said, let me get this straight.
You took my kids and dropped them off at a daycare.
You don't know the name of it, you don't have
an address, you don't know what street it's on, you
have no idea where it is, and you don't have
a phone number. And she looked at me, and that's
(10:19):
when she said, well, they have my number. And that's
whenever I felt like I was going to explode.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
But out of the corner of his eye, Troy sees
his son, his eldest who's there in the backseat and
he's hearing.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
All of this, and I said, okay, I can't do that.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Before Troy can go any further, he needs someone to
take his eldest son. So Troy calls Catherine's mother, Lindsey.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I said, I want you to take my son. And
Catherine was like, what are you doing? And I said,
what do you mean? What am I doing? I'm having
your mom meet us. He's going to go with her
and she was like, he's not going with her. I said, yes,
see it, And so she's going we'll go pick up
you know, Sarah and Jacob. And I said, I said, no,
(11:08):
we're going to go pick him up. I said, but first,
we're going to meet your mom here.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Troy pulls over to the side of the road to
wait for Lindsay, who shows up ten minutes later, but
Catherine is shaken out of complacency when Lindsay shows up
and separates Catherine from her eldest son. She was adamant
that Lindsay not take him. It seemed to trigger something
desperate furious in Catherine.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
She starts going, well, he's not going through I'm like, yes, yes, yes,
And she's telling her mom, Mom, just leave, just leaving
unless going now. I'm not leaving without him at this point,
and Troy wants me to take him.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
You know, all of this behavior is clearly troubling.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Catherine had been struggling for years, but today this is
all new. In the months leading up to this, Catherine
was fine with her mother's involvement in their lives. Lindsay
had been a safe harbor for the family. She'd picked
up huge amounts of slack as a mother and grandmother.
But here and now, Catherine seems determined not to be
separated from her oldest son. Troy ignores her and picks
(12:07):
up their son, putting him in the back of Lindsay's car,
and I tell.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Her go, she pulls off. Catherine starts banging on the
back of her car while she's pulling off and screaming
obscenities at her. I said, what the hell's wrong with you?
She said, I don't trust her with him. I said
that's not true. She's watched him a million times. So
I said, so where are we going to get him?
(12:33):
And she goes, well, they're up here. She said, fine,
let's go get him because I want to go get him.
As soon as possible from her.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
At this point, Troy is wondering if this is some
kind of game, a control thing, maybe punishment for the
last year, for the rules, the hospitalizations, for telling Catherine
how she could be a mom. Maybe Catherine feels like
she's in trouble again, yet again, letting down her family.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
At this point, I'm not really scared because I can
my kids are in the daycare and we're going to
pick them up. But I'm feeling.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right before the kids went missing, Catherine had been getting
regular treatment, she was being medicated. Troy wondered if maybe
they could start enjoying life's mundane moments again. But now
Troy is wondering if maybe he'd been in denial that
in reality they could never really be a family, And
maybe he has no idea what Catherine is actually capable of.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
We drive up here and I'm asking her, you know
where there are things like that? And she says, well,
you know where it is?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
This right here here was the daycare.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
He knew it was close to the one where his
oldest had gone before he started school.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So are you telling me that they're at the daycare
where we put the oldest? And she said no, I said,
so some one right behind it. That's what you're telling me.
We're gonna go there and pick him up now. And
she said, well, no, not that one. I said, well,
it was the only two over here. So at that
point I got the car. I opened up that door,
and I'm saying above her, I'm gonna where are my kids?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
And say sorry, you get out, walk around and open
her door.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Right and I'm gonna where are my kids? And she goes,
They're in daycare, Troy, you know, And I said, tell
me where my kids are? And whatever it is inside
of me, I can't put my hands on woman. I
wanted to yank her out and grab her and like
force her to talk, but I just can't put my
hands on a woman out of anger, and I didn't.
(14:38):
It may sound terrible, say I wish I could at
this point. I wish I was one of those dudes
like it in that moment only, but just not. I
couldn't do it. So there's all kinds of things going
in my mind. I could make her talk, but nothing's happening.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Troy is losing control, but he knows he needs to
stay calm. He's picturing Sarah and Jacobs sitting at some
daycare god knows where, feeling forgotten the only kids whose
parents haven't come to pick them up. But he's also
desperately hanging onto the hope that he'll see their faces
looking up at him when he finally gets there. Are
(15:12):
you thinking at this point that maybe she doesn't know
where the kids are, or maybe she's forgotten or anything.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
No, she's nothing with it.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Or even since showing any signs of having this psychotic
break with no memory or any nothing like that. She's
not even acting like in terms of what I've seen
is in her mental illness when it's acting up or
bad or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Are the two of you talking about anything as this
goes on.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I have nothing to say to her. I just want
to get my kids, get them home, get them in bed,
and then put her ass out. That's all I'm thinking.
At this point.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
She's thinking like I'm sending her to her parents or whatever,
or the street.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I don't care. At this point. She's a danger to
my kids, So I'm just done.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Driving from place to place. Troy's desperation grows. It's now
after six pm. The traffic is thinning as other people
make at home to spend the evening with their families,
to make dinner for their kids. When they pull up
to a church that Catherine has directed Troy to, he
feels a slight pang of relief when he sees a
playground and some toys. At this point, any sign of
(16:23):
children is a good thing.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So we go there. There's a young lady there who
runs the daycare, but all the kids are gone.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
The woman who runs the daycare confirms that Sarah and
Jacob were never there, that she's never seen Catherine before.
Catherine asked to use the bathroom, then comes back out
and joins Troy in the car.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
So what she did inside What turns out is she
asked to use phone. She called her mom repeatedly and
tried to get her to bring the oldest back. Well,
it turns out her mom told her was that you know,
as soon as you produced the other two, then you'll
see him.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Troy knows this is serious, but what are his options.
Catherine is the only one who knows where Sarah and
Jacob are, and if he doesn't play her game or
whatever this is, then maybe she'll just decide not to
tell him. They start driving again.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I was like, is it this one? She was like, nah,
not that one. I pointed out, like pretty much every
church on was it this one? Is it this one?
Is this one? The whole way up there?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
You know, at this point, Catherine was not supposed to
be alone, unsupervised with the children.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Just a reminder that Beth Carris is in the car
with us as well.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I mean, maybe you didn't want to go there in
your mind that she had done something with the children,
but there was a reason why she wasn't supposed to
be alone with.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Them, right right, And it wasn't that anyone actually at
that point believed that she would physically purposely hurt them.
It was more of the decision making stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
But it's at this point, close to seven pm, the
sun starting to dip, that the worst case scenario must
be starting to creep into Troy's mind. Troy and Catherine
had been in the car for more than four hours
when they arrived at one more daycare, and this one
is still open. Troy is sure that this is the
(18:18):
one that he's going to walk through those doors and
see his children. As he pulls up, he can feel
his heart pounding in his chest.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
I pulled into there was actually this middle spot here.
There was nothing here. There was like one car parked
in the back there. So I'm going, so this is way,
she says, yes. So I get out, walk quickly to
the door. Here go inside, and I'm so sorry I'm late.
(18:49):
You know, I came to get my kids and the
ladies looking at me, going, ain't no kids here. I'm going, uh,
you know, I give their names, like Sarah and Jacobs.
She was like, no, bought my phone. I showed her
a picture on like these two and she's like they
were never here. She was like, we've never seen them.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Troy changes his mind.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
At this moment, whatever Catherine is doing, whatever game she's playing,
he's done.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I'm thinking I'm going to the police station to basically
have them do whatever they need to do to find
out where my kids are. And I'm thinking that I
need to get there before I lose control over my
emotions at this point. You know, this is it's just
too much. At this point, I'm like this, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So you're like really feeling on the edge here, Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And it's at this point I still don't think in
my mind she physically hurt my kids, but I'm thinking
she has left my kids somewhere where no one is
except maybe one person sitting there, you know, because there's
two kids stuck there, who's probably gonna call the police
or CPS, thinking that they've been abandoned. She owes, why
are we pulling down here? And I said to the
(20:08):
police station is here? We're going to the police station.
When I said that to her about right here, and
she was like, we don't need to involve, We don't
need to do that. I said, yes we do. I said,
my kids aren't here. I don't know where you put them,
so I need to have the police help me find them. Apparently,
and then she owes they're on Betheta church road.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Catherine plays this like she's folding, giving up the game,
like Troy has won and now she is going to
really actually tell him where he can find Sarah and Jacob.
Or maybe she's bargaining against something that terrifies her. Lindsey
told me that when Catherine was involuntarily committed, she was
handcuffed by police and taken away in front of her children,
(20:54):
and that she'd had a paralyzing fear of police. There
are red and blue lights and the loud sirens in
the distance.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Since I was like, what are you talking about? She said,
there's a daycom Beth's Church Road. That's where I put them.
And I said, so, why wouldn't you have just said
that before so we could have went and picked up.
She said, because they actually have extended to stay there
till like eight o'clock. And I was like, no one
does that, that's not real. She was like, well, she's
like out there, they do, she said, because parents get
home much later because traffic is farther out. Now.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
At this point, it's near dark and Troy is done,
done with Catherine, done with the wild goose chase. Plus
he can't dismiss his creeping sense of alarm. He feels
a tug towards the police station. But he also can't
let go of the hope that the kids will be
at the next daycare, that after a long and frustrating day,
his life will return to what looks like normal. So
(21:44):
he agrees to drive to Bethesda Church Road, but first
Catherine pleads with him to stop for a soda. Her
medication is kicking in, she says, and she's feeling tired.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
All right, I said, we'll go right here hit it up.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Troy and Catherine pull into the parking lot of a
fast food chicken sandwich place. There's a drive through, but
Troy parks the car.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I park right here, literally right here, in this spot,
and we got out, walked in.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Catherine gets a soda, and the two of them head
back to the car. Troy is hopeful that the next
daycare is the right one, that Sarah and Jacob will
be back in his arms as soon as he can
get there. But Catherine stops. She says her cup is
already empty. She wants to get a refill, so she's
nice and alert when they go pick up the kids.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
So I said, well, hurry up, I said, I want
to go get my babies.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Troy gets in the car.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
He's antsy, and he starts it up in anticipation of
Catherine returning any second.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Then approximately three minutes past, and that's when it hit me.
You don't stand in line for refills here.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Desperate, Troy runs back into the store.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
So don't see her anywhere. So she's not in line,
she's not off to side getting a refill. She's nowhere inside.
Walk into the men's bathroom. Walking into the women's bathroom. Nothing,
She's just gone.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And now what's going through your mind?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
What's going through my mind now is just panic.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Troy and knows where his next stop has to be.
The police station is right across the street. He parks
in front and runs inside.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So like, I go in, there's like the window where
you tell them you know why you're there or whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Troy frantically calls Lindsay, his own mother, Catherine's dad, Randy.
Full panic has set in as he tells the cops
what he's been.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Through that day, Like, go do whatever you gotta do.
I'm sure you have to question me. Let's get that
out of the way. You know. It was like whatever
you got to do to get to actually finding my kids,
just do it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Lindsay arrives at the police station.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So Lindsay goes, I've been searching daycare for nowhere any
of them in Germantown. I've driven to all on with
and like what, like how long have you been doing it?
And what is going on here? And she said, I've
been worried kind of you know, says she didn't come
back with Jacob last night. And I said what, and
she goes, yeah, she came back without Jacob last night.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Catherine had come home without Jacob the night before.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I said, what the hell are you talking about, Lindsay,
She goes, you didn't know Jacob wasn't there last night?
I said no, I said no. One told me that
with this.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
It all comes crashing down that morning when Troy came
home from working the night shift and he couldn't find
his two youngest kids when Catherine was gone, and so
was the car. Remember, Troy had started to call nine
one one, but Catherine came home then and told him
she'd taken the kids to daycare. It never occurred to
Troy that she'd been lying. It never occurred to him
(25:04):
that the kids hadn't spent the night in their beds,
that the kids had been missing since the night before.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I'm thinking, you know, like what's going on? Like this
is insane, Like where are my kids? And that's kind
of all I'm really think. It's just where are my kids?
What's going on here? Like I have to find them?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Next time? On Unrestorable.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The next morning, I get a call and they're asking
myself and Randy to come in and saying, look, she
won't tell us where the kids are. Maybe She'll tell
you guys, come ask her.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Unrestorable is executive produced and hosted by Me, Sarah Trulevin,
and Beth Carris. Our story editor is Kathleen Goldhar. Mixing
and sound designed by Reza Dyah for anonymous content. Jessica
Grimshaw is our executive producer. Jennifer Sears is our executive
in charge of production, and Nick Yanas is our legal council.
For iHeart executive producer Christina Everett and supervising producer Abu
(26:08):
Zafar
Hosts And Creators
Beth Karas
Sarah Treleaven
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