July 13, 2023 • 43 mins
Women and families are underserved in the health-care system, with almost 40% of US counties lacking an obstetrics-gynecologist, Maven Clinic founder and CEO Kate Ryder explains to Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Jonathan Palmer in this episode of the Vanguards of Health Care podcast. Ryder speaks in depth about unmet needs as the driver behind building the world’s largest virtual clinic for women and family health with a platform that covers 15 million lives spanning fertility, pregnancy, pediatrics and menopause. She highlights the challenges facing employers after the Dobbs decision, how international growth is exploding and why learning to be resilient is key.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to another episode of Bloomberg Intelligence's Vanguards of Healthcare podcasts,
where we speak with the leaders at the forefront of
change in the healthcare industry. My name is Jonathan Palmer,
and I'm a healthcare analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, the in
house research arm of Bloomberg. We're happy to welcome Kate Ryder,
the founder and CEO of Maven Clinic, to the podcast.
Prior to starting the company, she worked in venture capital
(00:41):
and as a journalist. Thank you for joining us here today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Kate, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, why don't we start off at a very high level?
What is Maven and what problem do you guys solve
in the marketplace?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, you know, Maven is the largest virtual clinic in
women's in family health globally. What that means means is
we operate both the largest telemedicine network and women's in
family health. So we deliver care across the full spectrum
of women's in family health care from fertility to maternity,
to pediatrics to menopause. And we also support the financial
(01:19):
reimbursement process as well. And so the other kind of
core capability besides the care delivery is payments, and so
we have a reimbursement product that supports the fertility journey,
whether someone's going through IVF or egg freezing, or adoption
or surrogacy. And increasingly we've seen that product apply to
a lot of other areas in our category, like dula
(01:39):
support after pregnancy or even backup childcare support for working parents.
So it's been pretty amazing as as we've grown and
we've brought on more and more clients and more different
types of clients to see all of the ways that
they're using the Maiven platform to fill in the gaps
in their women's and family health care models.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's fascinating the number of services you guys are offering.
I've seen it over the years just grow and grow
and grow. But if we rewind to your origination story
and I've seen you discuss it at conferences before, but
when did the light bulb go off for Maven for you?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, I was in London covering kind of the first
wave of digital health from a venture capital standpoint, and
what was so striking is that there were so many
companies being started in primary care, chronic disease management, or
mental health or telemedicine. Quite frankly, and there just weren't
a lot of female founders and there was not a
lot of talk of women's health. But then when you
(02:35):
really lifted up the hood of a lot of these companies,
you saw that the core consumer of a lot of
them were women.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And so.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
The light bulb was really I was about to turn thirty,
a lot of my friends were starting to have kids.
I knew that it was the decade I would have kids.
I now have three kids, and it just felt like, Wow,
there's a massive opportunity to really help this core consumer
of healthcare right particularly as she's about to enter the
the healthcare system when she's starting a family. And so
(03:03):
that was really where we started. We've since expanded to
include kind of be more, be broader to women's and
family health because we cover kids, we cover you know,
family building in the LGBTQ community, But really where we
started was that core kind of women's health, pregnancy and
postpartum episode.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
When you started the company, what was the first product
that you built and what was the maybe the pitch
that you gave to those early investors on what Maven
might look like? Does it look like what you imagined
back then?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
You know, I'm actually kind of proud to say that
it does.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But what I think has been surprising to me is
how fast the industry has moved to adopt other areas
of women's in family health, like menopause being a perfect example. So,
you know, back in back in twenty fourteen and fifteen,
you know, we launched in April twenty fifteen, when we
were conceiving of the product and talking to patients and
talking to providers. Really there was just such an opportunity
(04:02):
to fill in a lot of major gaps in the
care model with virtual care. And so what I mean
by that is, you know, the typical experience of a
woman when she's pregnant is she goes to her doctor,
and she sees her doctor in person, you know, maybe
ten minutes a month. She has a bunch of tests,
and then you know, she gets sometimes results that are
not you know, favorable, other times she doesn't understand her results.
(04:24):
And then there's the big labor and delivery, and then
she goes home and doesn't have a visit again until
six weeks later. And so during that journey, you know,
there is so much anxiety, There are so many needs
that are that are unmet, whether it's pelvic floor support
or you know, support for high risk pregnancies or support
for mental health, and so there was such an opportunity
(04:45):
to actually build a virtual care team to fill in
a lot of these gaps, particularly in the postpartum period
when you're also caring for a baby and you're breastfeeding
and you know, you're recovering from childbirth, and so you
know that that image of this virtual care team who
always in your pocket, who you could consult at any
time in the day, you know, during the weekends in
(05:06):
kind of as a compliment to your in person care.
You know, that was the original vision and it's been
pretty amazing to see how this is now being massively
adopted at scale. You know, we have fifteen million lives
covered today and particularly during COVID. You know, this is
really when when virtual care and telemedicine became much more
(05:28):
of the mainstream.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
If you rewind back to those early days and your
business model is more of a B two C, you know,
what did you take you to get across the finish
line with that first maybe enterprise client. You know, what
did you have to show to them for them to
take a chance on maven.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, we had a very deliberate go to market, which
I guess is there's now a term for it called
B two C to be And so the reason we
started B two C is number one, there was just
a practical reason that you know, investors, particularly seed investors
at the time, they weren't exactly healthcare investors, and they
wanted to see product momentum.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So that was that was number one to raise money.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And number two, you know, for us to be a
product led company, we just needed to have the best product,
and we couldn't. We wanted to hear that direct feedback
from the users themselves. We didn't want to hear it,
you know, through the buyers. We just we wanted the
users to tell us what they liked, what they didn't like,
and build that relationship. And so so that was that
(06:25):
was how we launched. But we knew always that B
to B was the ultimate go to market and I
had worked you know, in venture capital for two years
so had seen that firsthand through some of the companies
that the firm I had worked at had worked for.
So we were out pitching actually some of these benefits
buyers before we even launched our consumer product to just
(06:45):
kind of talk to them about what we were doing
and understand what they were looking for when it came
to maternal health, because you know, back back then in
twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen, there was a few companies
that were selling into the benefits, but it was definitely
not what the market is today, and a lot of
the focus was more on cost savings than member experience,
(07:07):
and so, you know, maternity was one of the top
costs of a lot of these buyers. And so what
we heard over and over is, you know, yes, maternity
is one of my top costs, and yeah, this sounds
really interesting, and yes, I know that postpartum care is
not you know, covered as much. I know that, you know,
women really struggle returning to work after having kids, so
(07:28):
you know, I'd be interested in.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Hearing about hearing about the product.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So then we you know, we got three or four
months of just consumer product data after we launched, and
then we went back to those same buyers that we
had had those early conversations with and we said, hey,
you know, look how look what our members.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Are saying, Look how valuable this has been. Look what
our providers are saying.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And from there, we got some of our early customers,
so we always have had a very kind of product
focused and data focused pitch from even the earliest days.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
How has the market changed, you know, as an analyst
who looks at this space and tech enabled services and healthcare,
you know, the tenor of I think conversations with benefit
managers five ten years ago was was very different than
it has been over the last couple of years, particularly
with the pandemic. How is it How have you seen
it change over the last you know, a couple of years,
(08:21):
And has the pandemic fast forwarded or sped up the
evolution of some of these service models.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a great question that the
industry has changed a lot. I remember the first benefits
conference I ever went to, I think was in twenty sixteen,
twenty seventeen, and there weren't There were vendors there, but
it wasn't like a swarm of vendors, And particularly for us,
we were, you know, the only company doing this whole
kind of pregnancy postpartum returned to work support platform, and
(08:52):
then by twenty seventeen we had added fertility, so we
were also the only company doing that bundle and it
took probably another three years for us to really have
any real competitors that were that had the same offering
and value proposition as us, that were, of course at
that time then much much farther behind us. But but
it was it was a more of a sparse landscape.
(09:14):
And then the buyers themselves, you know, they just leaned
very heavily on their consultants and they you know, and
they still bought a lot of their internal health plan products.
And what changed is that, you know, as more and
more offerings came to market, a lot of the consultants
would then do market maps and start to help educate
(09:34):
their you know, their clients, like, wow, you know, you
you may have a maternity telephonic line through your health plan,
but look there's all of these other options and this
is what it's going to give you and so and
so that was that was really helpful. And I think
that inflection point came around, I don't know, twenty eighteen
twenty nineteen twenty twenty, and then when the pandemic hit,
(09:56):
that's when everyone had to shift to virtual care overnight,
and so all all of a sudden in terms of
you know, when you when the consulting firms would pull
the buyers and say, what are you really looking to
bring on? You know, Virtual Care has been at the
top of the list since twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, so you guys really had a pretty big head
start there. You know, if you think about the competitive landscape,
what does that look like today? You know, how how
competitive is this market at least in the US. I'm
sure it's very different, you know, depending on where you
are outside of the US. But in the US, how
competitive is it today?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well, you know, I think in the US there's a
lot more venture capital dollars that have poured into some
of these companies, and there's been a lot more startups
that we've seen in the past few years. We also,
you know, have had some competitors in the market for
you know, four.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Or five years.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
We've been around for nine and you know, I think
it's it's been interesting because everyone takes a different approach.
I mean, this is a very big problem and it's
a very underserved industry, and so I think for us,
the approach we take is we are a technology company
and we're a healthcare company at the same time, and
(11:04):
so we're the only company pursuing a platform.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Based approach to the category.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Because we believe that's the most scalable and patient centered
way to solve the problems in the space. And you know,
the journey doesn't end. For instance, when someone goes through
ive VF, then there's pregnancy, then there's you know, managing
your kids, and then eventually you know you're going through menopause.
And so to be able to offer all of these products,
(11:29):
I think is you know, really unique to Maven and
we don't have any competitors there.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Can you talk about that last one, the menopause one,
because you know, I'll share a part of my family's
journey is you know, my wife and I have two kids,
and we're past where we're going to have kids, and
my wife has found that we know when she goes
to our ob G I N it's it's a very
you know here now discussion as opposed to you know,
what might happen over the next five to ten years
visa VI, you know, perimenopause and menopause. It seems like
(11:58):
there's a pretty obvious gap. Can you talk about what
you guys are offering and and you know what the
landscape looks like?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Sure, well, I think you know, just to kind of
paint the picture and the problem a little bit. I
think one of the most shocking statistics and in the
you know, the menopause category, is that when four out
of five women go to their doctor with symptoms, they're
not actually leaving with treatment or support because a lot
of the ob GYNs aren't actually trained on menopause in
(12:27):
medical school and many of them actually just don't there's
no protocol for a lot of the symptom management. So
so what what our program does is, you know, we
do have the largest telemedicine network.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
We have a lot of ob GYNs.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
We also have a lot of other types of providers
that specialize in menopause support rather whether it's around sleep
or nutrition, and we also offer hormone replacement therapy HRT,
and so between connecting somebody who is able to talk
directly with someone who has the experience menopause and specializes
(13:02):
in it as well as get medication if it's important
and necessary for them. And again that's a decision that
you know, the doctor and the patient will make because
patients don't always need it, you know, if they have
the right support from their doctor and symptom management plan
then then that is you know that that's kind of
I think pretty stand out in the industry to be
(13:23):
able to offer all of that. But I think what's
what's really interesting as well, which you know we're going
also a step further, is that there's a lot in
the menopause industry where you know, menopause is a period
of time where your body is changing, and if you
look at a lot of the women's health issues that
hit after menopause, a lot of them disproportionately start around
(13:45):
this time.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And so whether that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Is an autoimmune disease or thyroid conditions, you know, a
lot of it starts after menopause. And so there is
a ton around preventative health and helping people, you know,
connect to screenings and linkage. It is to a lot
of the really interesting stuff in the longevity category, you know,
to to menopause support because similar to pregnancy where women
(14:08):
it's really an entry point into the healthcare system.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
You're going to the doctor.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
A lot to get support and you are engaging a
lot and preventative health, you know, menopause is the same
the same, and so you know you're you're you're going
to the doctor, whether you're getting the support or not,
I don't know, but but you're going to the doctor
and it's just this moment where you're going through a
lot and you're really focused on your body and and
and you know, lifestyle and symptom management and so it's
(14:34):
it's there's so much that we can do as a
as a as a women's you know, health industry to
to better support women going you know, during this life stage.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It makes me think that you have a whole offering,
you know, spanning the gamut and the journey. When when
employers come onto your platform, did they get the whole
platform from a business perspective, model perspective, or or do
they sign up for certain modules all a cart yep, sign.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Up for whatever part of the platform they want to
start with. And they typically either you know, bring it
all on at once, and we see that a lot
in our you know SMB small and medium sized business
market or you know, if there if you're a larger
and more complex employer, you might have you know, only
budget for some or you might have you know, like
(15:21):
you might have something in house and you might only
need something, so you know, they might bring on you know,
only fertility and maternity and bring pediatrics on later and
so so that's typically how we see it. But really
our core that we see almost all the time is
that fertility and maternity bundle.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
And do you have a land and expand strategy? Do
you have any metrics around you know, the people who
start our customers who start on fertility, you know, in
a two three years time now they've added you know,
two or three more additional modules.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
We do, Yes, we really track at the lifetime value
of all of our customers. We don't talk about them publicly,
but that is absolutely you know, our land and expand
strategy and TV and kind of going with someone throughout
their whole journey and not having them on the platform
for a few years, but you know ten plus years
is very much you know, the folks there of our product.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I think one of the other things that makes you
guys very unique is your global mandate if you will.
You know, you said you talked about starting the company
in London and you have operations overseas. What does that
look like for a large multinational? You know, do you
offer the same benefits globally? And you know which countries
are are you in today? And you know, maybe are
(16:33):
the core to the international offering.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Sure, so we're in almost all countries because when you
work with some of the bigger employers as well as
having a consumer product out there, which we do, you know,
I think that you know, we're in one hundred and
seventy plus countries or something like that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So but we do have our top countries.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Our top countries are the UK, Canada, Australia, India, and
Japan and I think Germany is sixth. And you know,
I think what we look at global as a separate
program that a company purchases, so that's another area of
land and expand and you know, Danielle reminded me, I
am allowed to share that ninety five percent of our
(17:14):
new clients offering, you know, offer two or more MAVEN
programs to their employees. So hopefully that gives you a
sense of color, yes, of you know that that strategy.
But anyways, but with the global piece, we are seeing
that more and more coming up in the RFPs and
in the market, particularly in the last twenty four months
(17:36):
because I think what the pandemic did was brought a
real focus on health equity and global equity, and it's
really hard to have a fertility and family building benefit
only in one country and not all if you're a
global employee an employer, because there's so many different laws
and rules and regulations, and the fertility industry is so
(17:59):
nascent in so many countries that a lot of those
families are going to their employers for the support. And
it really doesn't feel equitable or fair if you know,
you only offer that family building support to some of
your employees but not all.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And your strategy internationally, has it been to build organically
or have you acquired some assets that maybe we were
on the ground already in some of these markets.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Sure, so we launched our first global clients in twenty eighteen,
and so in the beginning it was just to grow
naturally and organically. It was really a client demand and
a client request, and so we would you know, partner
with the US clients, and then the US clients, you
know that the US multinationals would then expand Maven into
other offices. You know, in the last eighteen months, we've
(18:45):
really seen this pick up, not just from you know,
smaller companies, but big fortune tends. I mean today we
served three of the largest companies in the world globally,
and so that was when we felt that we wanted to,
you know, acquire a company in our are just market
outside the US, which is the UK. And so we
bought a company called Natal about three or four months ago.
(19:08):
And you know, they were doing a lot of the
telemedicine locally in the UK and and and so they
had a great provider network and they had a lot
of shared values with us. The founder is great Leila,
and they had made a lot of inroads and they
were just starting to sell into a lot of benefits
teams and so really, you know, what we noticed was
(19:31):
that the UK is is you know, they're they're a
little bit behind the US, but a lot of the
local companies are now looking to add fertility and family
building benefits because it's just a big gap in the
healthcare system, you know, in the UK. And so whether
it's fertility and family building benefits, which is the most
popular global product, or you know, maternity and return to work,
(19:54):
that's another big area that that a lot of global
employers are are focused on. You know, we that was
kind of why are why why why we we pursued
Natal So we're you know, we still have a team
that works with a lot of the US benefits employee
buyers and the multinationals. But then our local UK team
(20:15):
now is also you know, really focused on the UK
and Ameya.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And if you buy for Kate, between those those two
customer bases, you know, the large multinationals who have operations everywhere,
and maybe a corporate who's you know just in the
United States or just in the UK. Are they asking
you for very different services or or demands or is
it pretty standard that most people want you know, this
this core offering and then they might expand into something else.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It does depend. I mean, every country is obviously very different.
So in Japan, for instance, they're very focused on keeping
women in the workforce because there's a lot of gaps
at this senior leadership level and you know in in
corporations in Japan, and so that return work product is
really important. And a lot of our materials you know
(21:03):
there and you know, are translated because there's not as
many English speakers. So Japan is definitely a unique market,
whereas you know a place like Canada where you have
a very uneven fertility industry where it's actually really hard.
You know, there's a public health system in Canada, it's
really hard to get access sometimes, particularly in certain provinces,
(21:24):
to to clinic appointments, you know, and then there's also
a twelve month uh you know, well in some cases
there's a you know, a very long paid leave. You know,
there's also a focus there, so you know, it just
it just totally depends. I know that in India as well,
there is there's actually thousands of fertility clinics, but many
(21:48):
of them are not necessarily vetted and from a quality standpoint,
and so you know, definitely clients in that region has
turned to us to kind of really help people not
gate navigate the industry there. And then with surrogacy, there's
a lot of medical tourism. With adoption, you know, those
laws are really complex across state borders and country borders.
(22:11):
So you know, our teams, we have an internal you know,
research team and an internal wiki that's just constantly being
updated with our all of these uh you know, these countries'
laws so that we can help people kind of navigate
all of them. And it's it's certainly not it's certainly
very complex.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Let's just say that.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, something that you said around accessing Canada made me
made me think about some of the research I had
done ahead of our discussion today, and I was surprised
to learn about the care deserts for women's health in
the United States. Was that something you knew going into
the starting the company or were you surprised by those
statistics as well?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh, my gosh, I you know, I knew a lot
of stories of how underserved women and families are in
the healthcare system, but then when you when you being
in the industry and seeing all of these statistics, No,
I definitely did not know that. But yeah, I think
it's pretty telling that you know, almost forty percent of
US counties don't have in obgu I n and those families,
(23:09):
you know, the babies are delivered by a family physician,
and there's just not a lot of choice or a
lot of personalization and a lot of those patient provider relationships,
which particularly in communities that our more lower income, there's
not a lot of trust also in the first place
with the healthcare system, so you know, when you when
(23:30):
you just don't have a lot of access there and
there's not a lot of provider diversity, and it just
it does not lead to good outcomes.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I know, it's it's been a wild roller coaster ride there,
you know, especially in through the lens of the Row
versus Wade and the Dobbs decision. How has that changed
some of the discussions you're having and what's your view
on the landscape, you know, post.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
That decision, Well, in the immediate aftermath, a lot of
people kind of scrambled to get policies in place. I think,
you know, in this this dan age that we live in,
it's so hard to plan for every single crisis that is.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And so what we saw is.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Even though we knew that, you know, the Dobbs decision
was coming because of SBA and Texas you know, about
eight months earlier, still there was a mad scramble at
the at the end of the day to get a
reproductive health travel policies in place. You know, we may
even support that through our financial product maybe and wallet.
We also had launched a product and have it today
(24:33):
called the Pregnancy Options Counseling Program, which just really helps
somebody understand what their options are if they get pregnant,
particularly if they get pregnant in a state with restricted access.
I think that the stories though we were still people
don't understand or know the depth of what chaos. This
has kind of and havo. This is this is kind
(24:54):
of you know, have come on local hospitals and a
lot of these states because you know, miscarriage as well
is an area that is gray and it's very common.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
It's a core part of pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Often twenty percent of women about you know, went out
of one out of five pregnancies, so about twenty percent
of pregnancies and in miscarriage, and that's considered often the
technical term for that is is a mised abortion. And
so when a lot of women in a lot of
these states are trying to get support for even that
that part of the prenatal care, you know, providers don't
(25:26):
know what to do and they're not helping them and
that's just dangerous. And so that there there's still just
I think a lot that is coming out that we
don't totally know, but certainly on the employer and the
and the payers side, everyone looked to kind of add
these reproductive health travel benefits. They look to add pregnancy options, counseling,
and just better support their employees. And I think, you know,
(25:47):
we're headed into an election year next year, but it's
certainly going to be one of the hot button political
issues that I'm sure there's going to be a lot
more data and stories that are going to come out
around you know, what what what restricted access does to
health outcomes?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And as we sit here today and you think about,
you know, you mentioned the election next year, is there
anything on the legislative front that would be a boon
to your business model or you know, the flip side
if we saw another decision. You know, probably there's not
much out there on the Rod versus Wade scale. But
you know, as I think about what could be a
(26:26):
tailwind for the industry, you know, how are you guys
advocating or is the industry advocating in Washington? What are
you advocating for? And where a kind of the pockets
of key opportunity?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Sure, so, I mean I would say the two areas
of policy that well, there's actually way more than two.
But some of the area some that come to mind,
first of all, are medicaid expansion in some of the
key states. You know, there are a lot of women
(26:59):
who babies will lose coverage after sixty days. That also
leads to you know, bad health outcomes in some cases
maternal death because a lot of the maternal mortality rate
occurs you know, in the first year after a baby
is delivered, So definitely expanding coverage and through Medicaid expansion
(27:21):
policies would be a big one in maternal health. Another
one that I think is important that has just stalled
a lot is just support around childcare. I think, you know,
there was a really interesting bill around you know, subsidies
or universal pre K. I think that's a really important
one that we just you know, it's happening on a
state by state level in some cases, but I think,
(27:45):
you know, federally mandated would be helpful to all working families,
particularly the universal pre K. And then you know, others
like paid paid leave, we still don't have that.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So there's a lot there.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
And on the policy front, you know, I think a
lot of this is going to be talked about at
the election, you know, in the election cycle next year,
but we're already seeing Roe v. Wade being one of
the you know, the most talked about things, and I think,
you know, it is a good thing to talk about this,
and it's a good thing to share a lot of
the data and a lot of the outcomes data coming
(28:21):
out of these hospitals in these states. With restricted access
to give just a better understanding of what this does
to healthcare, because I think every major you know, American
Medical Association came out after the Jobs decision and said, hey,
this is this is going to lead to worse outcomes.
This is not you know, our job is to do
no harm by the patient. This is doing harm to
(28:42):
the patient. And you know, I think if for people
who didn't totally understand that all the data is now
just out there.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Is government a material portion of your business today. I
mean it sounds like the medicaid piece could be over time.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Well, we have definitely seen a lot more interest from
medicaid plans and we do work with quite a few
now in certain markets like Tennessee and Ohio and Arkansas
and Oklahoma. So so we are we are we are
definitely in that market and that market is growing.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
It's it's that not a fast market though.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I mean I think that you know, because of the
way that a lot of the deals are procured through
the state or the state issues in RFP, and you know,
it's just a it's a much longer cycle and there's
a lot more compliance and there's a you know, the
rates are much lower, but but the need is so
great and so and so, you know, I think it's
an area that we are continuing to With each market
(29:42):
that you launch, you just learn so much, and you know,
and so I think at a certain point, you know,
each market is very different, but when you're in enough markets,
then you're able to kind of, you know, build that
truly scalable model to all fifty states.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That's fascinating if you if you think about where where
the white space is is free, you know going forward
our you know, government sounds like maybe it's one and
it's a it's a longer tailed investment process, but where
where else would you like to be?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I mean, you know, when we look at some of
our key key growth areas, certainly going deeper into medicaid
is one of them. Another is global because that industry
is also kind of exploding, which is you know, as
we talked about earlier, why we we just acquired natle
To to be our team on the ground in the UK.
And then you know, I think what what is really
(30:33):
exciting to me is, you know, we do have this
platform and so we're able to kind of recut come
of our some of our core capabilities to the you know,
to the consumer that we're designing for. And so whether
it's someone going through metopause or you know, someone a
parent who is navigating complex pediatric needs, it is, you know,
(30:53):
there's just we've just.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
We feel like we're at the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
And I think with all of the recent progress in AI,
I would actually say, I'm just so excited to leverage
a lot of that technology and better personalize our journeys,
uh with with you know, a more intelligent care platform.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's fascinating. I think the opportunity there is going to
be pretty pretty profound, and it'd be interesting to see
how everybody harvests that technology, you know, into their into
their platforms. You know, where are you spending the majority
of your time today? That's maybe different from the pandemic.
You know, I think a lot of the leaders that
I speak to over the last couple of years said,
you know that that was a very hectic time and
(31:35):
now it's back to business as usual. But you're still
a growth company. You know, where's your focus today?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You know, it's it switches all the time, but right now,
you know, in the in the month of June, I
would say, I'm very focused on product at the moment,
because there's just so much exciting stuff as we just
talked about with AI and what we can do that
I'm very heavily involved.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
There, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I think that because when you're a high growth company
at this stage, company culture is is so critical. I mean,
it's it's you know, my job to create a culture
where we get the best people and they want to
work here and they want to stay here, and as
we grow, they're still you know, their best self, and
they're innovative and they're scrappy and they're not weighed down
(32:22):
by you know, overly bureaucratic systems, and so so that's
that's a really fun challenge as well. And and so
I would say, yeah, those are the two areas. And
then of course it's just the market in our category
evolved so quickly. You know, menopause went from being something
that people were kind of somewhat interested in to everybody
wanted to buy it, and it was our fastest selling product,
(32:45):
you know, in the history. And so you know, also
just being in the market talking to people and keeping
my ear on the ground is you know, I think
also just a really important part of the job.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It sounds like product is going to be your focus
within your term. But you know, if I think about
your journey and and the funding that you guys have done,
you know since inception, I mean, it seems like you're
in a pretty good place operationally, you know, even if
the times are maybe a little bit more volidile. Can
can you talk a little bit about, you know, what
the last couple of rounds that you've done, what that
capital has been here mark for and how you see
(33:17):
maybe your capital needs growing or changing over over time.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Sure, so we to We did a Series D in
twenty twenty one and that was about one hundred and
ten million. We did a Series E last year and
about you know, in the fall I was ninety million,
and so you know, both of those fundraises were to
really kind of you know, scale up our product ahead
(33:42):
of a lot of the growth that we had just signed.
And so because we work with a lot of the
payers and we sell through the pairs, that has just
increased the velocity through which we're bringing on new clients.
And so you know, we've invested a lot of that
money quite frankly into our product and engineering team without
actually growing as much our sales and marketing teams, and
(34:04):
that's really to ensure that you know that the you know,
we cover fifteen million lives today, but when we cover
fifty million lives at the level of service and quality
is still just as high.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And so you know, so that's one area.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
And then another area, of course, has been you know,
growth and adjacent markets. So you know, medicaid we've been
investing in that product global obviously, like those you know,
those are two areas in the last twelve months that
we have certainly seen a lot of appetite for from
our core buyers.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
When you stand up a new client, you know, like
a large health plan or a large corporate, you know
that investment that you have to make. What do you
have to do to I guess flip the switch on
jan one for those members? Is it is it a
customized solution that integrates with the health plan or the
commercial client's benefit system.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Well, it depends really on the on the buyer and
the buyers complexity and their population. So you know, for
a smaller buyer, it's turnkey, it's very kind of off
the shelf.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
We can implement you know, in a week, and that's
very fast. You know, we have.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
You know, hundreds and hundreds of clients there. If it's
a more complex buyer where they have specific needs or
they want specific integrations, you know, that's just really a
conversation we have. And there's also the pre preparation for
the communication plan and how to describe the benefit to employees.
Sometimes in populations where there's union employees, you know, there's
(35:36):
different different things you have to do there. So you know,
if you're selling an employer through a payer, if you're
selling directly to a payers felling in sure population, if
you're selling to a medicaid plan, it's all a little
bit different. And so that's why we do have a
big client delivery team to again just make sure that
that service and that experience is you know, as exceptional
(35:56):
for the client implementation team as it is for the member.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
On related note, your payment model, how do people typically
how do you generate revenue? Is is it feed for
service per member per month? Do you take any risk
sharing arrangements with customers?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
All of the above.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
So again, each client has their own complexities, and there
are certain clients that may have been doing p p
ms or pm pms for a long time and they
don't want to deviate that Others you know want a
case rate and others want you know, and then we
have value based deals as well, where there's shared savings
(36:34):
on both you know, upside and whatnot. So it really
it really depends on the on the buyer, and we're
seeing you know, we see a lot of diversity there.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
It's interesting because you know, it seems like value based
cares kind of all the rage and the stuff that
I look at in the public markets. You know, what's
your view on on the you know, the health the
US health systems move in that direction. Where do you
think we are and you know, how how far away
do you think we are from really being in a
value based care model.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Well, it's certainly where we need to go, and so
I think everyone in the healthcare industry is aligned that
that is where we're going. The question is when, And
I think that it's taken longer than some people have thought.
I think, you know, there if you look at some
of the recent big payer earnings announcements, it's really interesting
to see you know, some pairs like Anthem or Elevans
(37:27):
going you know, much more aggressively into some value based
care deals. And so you know that changes here and
the and the train has left the station. I still
think though, you know, there are specific muscles and payment
mechanisms that you need to execute a value based deal
that a lot of.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
People actually don't have.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And so sometimes what slows things down, I think is
that you know, no one has the people that the
two parties don't have the setup for it, and so
that's kind of you know's what's great is as these
bigger players adopt more and more value based care deals,
that will force more people in the industry to kind
of develop the right internal systems to support value based care.
(38:11):
And so, you know, I think it's it's moving faster,
and I actually think AI will be helpful here. It's
just it has it has moved, I think, more slowly
than people have liked.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know, you talked about some of the big players
in the health plan industry. You know, what, what do
you think about them maybe moving into this space over time?
I mean, is it eventual that as you know, women's
health becomes a bigger piece of the pie and everybody's
offering becomes more sophisticated, and or we get these larger
platforms that that might be a service model that I
(38:46):
don't know a CBS or United or Optum or I
know those are the same company, but or Elevance, you know,
might turn to say, you know, this is something that
we should have in house and not necessarily you know,
go outside the walls of our our building to offer.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Well, sure, I mean, I think the model that a
lot of the pairs have always had is let's build
everything in house, and so that hasn't changed that desire.
I think what you know, what's just really important though,
is that with COVID and how fast everything changed and
accelerated into virtual care, that you know, everyone just needed
something overnight, and there were some you know, some pairs
(39:24):
and some companies that were at more advanced stages than
others and offering the virtual care and then you know,
so that's there's one part of it. And I think
the other part of it is, you know, really what
it comes down to is if you have a virtual product.
And one of the biggest things besides the outcomes that
people are really looking at is patient engagement. If you
don't have an engage, if you don't have a good
(39:45):
product that is easy to use and is reliable, and
I mean is basic stuff and it is nice to
look at and it's intuitive, then people aren't going to
use your product. And so I think the art of
creating an excellent, you know, uh technology platform that can
really build that trust with a member who knows that
(40:05):
they're you know, what they're logging into is going to
actually help them and it's going to work. There's still
not a lot in healthcare that that meets that bar,
which is so I look forward to more products meeting
that bar, but I think we're still in the very
early innings of that that resonates.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I don't know anybody who said I love my insurance
company's website.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, or many digital health products, right.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
I think it's just it's such a complex industry, and
I you know, it's it's a hard industry to work in.
A lot of my friends in digital health, like we talk,
there's just layer upon layer of complexity. So it's very
very hard, and so I think to do it right
is harder than you know, most other industries.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
And so, but there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Great entrepreneurs who are who are you know, trying and
who have been in the market for long enough. One
of the biggest things you have to do is just
survive because you know, it takes a certain amount of
capital and time to just start to get a lot
of it right. And so what I think was really
exciting right now is looking around at some of my
peers and other industries, you know, whether it's chronic disease
management or mental health, and you know they've been at
(41:10):
it as well, you know, six seven, eight, nine years,
and to see, you know, what they're doing to their products.
I think there's just a lot better products today and
they'll only get better than there were kind of three
years ago. Now.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
It's fascinating. We've had a number of founders on the
podcast who kind of fit that bill, and the amount
of change in the market has just been something outstanding
to see. You know, maybe if we just finish up here,
you know, one of the things I like to ask
our guests as to end the podcast is to focus
on one of the life lessons that they've learned. And
(41:43):
I typically ask, what's some of the best advice that
you've gotten in your business career or in your personal
life that you share with either your employees or your family.
That is one of the lessons that maybe has stayed
with you over time.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Sure, so you know, it's it's it's kind of trite
because everyone says it, but it's completely true. Is that
you know, the the resilience and grit and persistence that
you need is really everything. And to you know that
you can be really kicked down and really, you know,
have ten bad things happened to you or to your company,
(42:20):
and you know you have to be of a mindset
that you know you're just going to continue to get
up the next day and look for the silver lining
and continue to build and continue to see opportunity. And
so not certainly not everyone can can handle that, but
I think you know, certainly you My dad was an entrepreneur,
so I have those values. I think, you know, I
(42:44):
was raised with them, which I'm very grateful for. But
it's it's really hard. And so I think it's that
grit and that resilience and that persistence that all all
people need, is what I tell my kids, right, but
I try to what I try to help them understand too,
and I think in this world that we live in
more broadly, that is just so uncertain. You know, resilience
and grit is everything.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
That's great advice. I'm gonna share that with my kids
as well, well, I want to thank you Kate for
joining us here today. It's it's been a fascinating discussion.
I can't wait to see what you guys do next,
and hopefully we can chat again soon
Welcome to another episode of Bloomberg Intelligence's Vanguards of Healthcare podcasts,
where we speak with the leaders at the forefront of
change in the healthcare industry. My name is Jonathan Palmer,
and I'm a healthcare analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, the in
house research arm of Bloomberg. We're happy to welcome Kate Ryder,
the founder and CEO of Maven Clinic, to the podcast.
Prior to starting the company, she worked in venture capital
(00:41):
and as a journalist. Thank you for joining us here today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Kate, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, why don't we start off at a very high level?
What is Maven and what problem do you guys solve
in the marketplace?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Well, you know, Maven is the largest virtual clinic in
women's in family health globally. What that means means is
we operate both the largest telemedicine network and women's in
family health. So we deliver care across the full spectrum
of women's in family health care from fertility to maternity,
to pediatrics to menopause. And we also support the financial
(01:19):
reimbursement process as well. And so the other kind of
core capability besides the care delivery is payments, and so
we have a reimbursement product that supports the fertility journey,
whether someone's going through IVF or egg freezing, or adoption
or surrogacy. And increasingly we've seen that product apply to
a lot of other areas in our category, like dula
(01:39):
support after pregnancy or even backup childcare support for working parents.
So it's been pretty amazing as as we've grown and
we've brought on more and more clients and more different
types of clients to see all of the ways that
they're using the Maiven platform to fill in the gaps
in their women's and family health care models.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's fascinating the number of services you guys are offering.
I've seen it over the years just grow and grow
and grow. But if we rewind to your origination story
and I've seen you discuss it at conferences before, but
when did the light bulb go off for Maven for you?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, I was in London covering kind of the first
wave of digital health from a venture capital standpoint, and
what was so striking is that there were so many
companies being started in primary care, chronic disease management, or
mental health or telemedicine. Quite frankly, and there just weren't
a lot of female founders and there was not a
lot of talk of women's health. But then when you
(02:35):
really lifted up the hood of a lot of these companies,
you saw that the core consumer of a lot of
them were women.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And so.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
The light bulb was really I was about to turn thirty,
a lot of my friends were starting to have kids.
I knew that it was the decade I would have kids.
I now have three kids, and it just felt like, Wow,
there's a massive opportunity to really help this core consumer
of healthcare right particularly as she's about to enter the
the healthcare system when she's starting a family. And so
(03:03):
that was really where we started. We've since expanded to
include kind of be more, be broader to women's and
family health because we cover kids, we cover you know,
family building in the LGBTQ community, But really where we
started was that core kind of women's health, pregnancy and
postpartum episode.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
When you started the company, what was the first product
that you built and what was the maybe the pitch
that you gave to those early investors on what Maven
might look like? Does it look like what you imagined
back then?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
You know, I'm actually kind of proud to say that
it does.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But what I think has been surprising to me is
how fast the industry has moved to adopt other areas
of women's in family health, like menopause being a perfect example. So,
you know, back in back in twenty fourteen and fifteen,
you know, we launched in April twenty fifteen, when we
were conceiving of the product and talking to patients and
talking to providers. Really there was just such an opportunity
(04:02):
to fill in a lot of major gaps in the
care model with virtual care. And so what I mean
by that is, you know, the typical experience of a
woman when she's pregnant is she goes to her doctor,
and she sees her doctor in person, you know, maybe
ten minutes a month. She has a bunch of tests,
and then you know, she gets sometimes results that are
not you know, favorable, other times she doesn't understand her results.
(04:24):
And then there's the big labor and delivery, and then
she goes home and doesn't have a visit again until
six weeks later. And so during that journey, you know,
there is so much anxiety, There are so many needs
that are that are unmet, whether it's pelvic floor support
or you know, support for high risk pregnancies or support
for mental health, and so there was such an opportunity
(04:45):
to actually build a virtual care team to fill in
a lot of these gaps, particularly in the postpartum period
when you're also caring for a baby and you're breastfeeding
and you know, you're recovering from childbirth, and so you
know that that image of this virtual care team who
always in your pocket, who you could consult at any
time in the day, you know, during the weekends in
(05:06):
kind of as a compliment to your in person care.
You know, that was the original vision and it's been
pretty amazing to see how this is now being massively
adopted at scale. You know, we have fifteen million lives
covered today and particularly during COVID. You know, this is
really when when virtual care and telemedicine became much more
(05:28):
of the mainstream.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
If you rewind back to those early days and your
business model is more of a B two C, you know,
what did you take you to get across the finish
line with that first maybe enterprise client. You know, what
did you have to show to them for them to
take a chance on maven.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, we had a very deliberate go to market, which
I guess is there's now a term for it called
B two C to be And so the reason we
started B two C is number one, there was just
a practical reason that you know, investors, particularly seed investors
at the time, they weren't exactly healthcare investors, and they
wanted to see product momentum.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So that was that was number one to raise money.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And number two, you know, for us to be a
product led company, we just needed to have the best product,
and we couldn't. We wanted to hear that direct feedback
from the users themselves. We didn't want to hear it,
you know, through the buyers. We just we wanted the
users to tell us what they liked, what they didn't like,
and build that relationship. And so so that was that
(06:25):
was how we launched. But we knew always that B
to B was the ultimate go to market and I
had worked you know, in venture capital for two years
so had seen that firsthand through some of the companies
that the firm I had worked at had worked for.
So we were out pitching actually some of these benefits
buyers before we even launched our consumer product to just
(06:45):
kind of talk to them about what we were doing
and understand what they were looking for when it came
to maternal health, because you know, back back then in
twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen, there was a few companies
that were selling into the benefits, but it was definitely
not what the market is today, and a lot of
the focus was more on cost savings than member experience,
(07:07):
and so, you know, maternity was one of the top
costs of a lot of these buyers. And so what
we heard over and over is, you know, yes, maternity
is one of my top costs, and yeah, this sounds
really interesting, and yes, I know that postpartum care is
not you know, covered as much. I know that, you know,
women really struggle returning to work after having kids, so
(07:28):
you know, I'd be interested in.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Hearing about hearing about the product.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So then we you know, we got three or four
months of just consumer product data after we launched, and
then we went back to those same buyers that we
had had those early conversations with and we said, hey,
you know, look how look what our members.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Are saying, Look how valuable this has been. Look what
our providers are saying.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
And from there, we got some of our early customers,
so we always have had a very kind of product
focused and data focused pitch from even the earliest days.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
How has the market changed, you know, as an analyst
who looks at this space and tech enabled services and healthcare,
you know, the tenor of I think conversations with benefit
managers five ten years ago was was very different than
it has been over the last couple of years, particularly
with the pandemic. How is it How have you seen
it change over the last you know, a couple of years,
(08:21):
And has the pandemic fast forwarded or sped up the
evolution of some of these service models.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a great question that the
industry has changed a lot. I remember the first benefits
conference I ever went to, I think was in twenty sixteen,
twenty seventeen, and there weren't There were vendors there, but
it wasn't like a swarm of vendors, And particularly for us,
we were, you know, the only company doing this whole
kind of pregnancy postpartum returned to work support platform, and
(08:52):
then by twenty seventeen we had added fertility, so we
were also the only company doing that bundle and it
took probably another three years for us to really have
any real competitors that were that had the same offering
and value proposition as us, that were, of course at
that time then much much farther behind us. But but
it was it was a more of a sparse landscape.
(09:14):
And then the buyers themselves, you know, they just leaned
very heavily on their consultants and they you know, and
they still bought a lot of their internal health plan products.
And what changed is that, you know, as more and
more offerings came to market, a lot of the consultants
would then do market maps and start to help educate
(09:34):
their you know, their clients, like, wow, you know, you
you may have a maternity telephonic line through your health plan,
but look there's all of these other options and this
is what it's going to give you and so and
so that was that was really helpful. And I think
that inflection point came around, I don't know, twenty eighteen
twenty nineteen twenty twenty, and then when the pandemic hit,
(09:56):
that's when everyone had to shift to virtual care overnight,
and so all all of a sudden in terms of
you know, when you when the consulting firms would pull
the buyers and say, what are you really looking to
bring on? You know, Virtual Care has been at the
top of the list since twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, so you guys really had a pretty big head
start there. You know, if you think about the competitive landscape,
what does that look like today? You know, how how
competitive is this market at least in the US. I'm
sure it's very different, you know, depending on where you
are outside of the US. But in the US, how
competitive is it today?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well, you know, I think in the US there's a
lot more venture capital dollars that have poured into some
of these companies, and there's been a lot more startups
that we've seen in the past few years. We also,
you know, have had some competitors in the market for
you know, four.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Or five years.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
We've been around for nine and you know, I think
it's it's been interesting because everyone takes a different approach.
I mean, this is a very big problem and it's
a very underserved industry, and so I think for us,
the approach we take is we are a technology company
and we're a healthcare company at the same time, and
(11:04):
so we're the only company pursuing a platform.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Based approach to the category.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Because we believe that's the most scalable and patient centered
way to solve the problems in the space. And you know,
the journey doesn't end. For instance, when someone goes through
ive VF, then there's pregnancy, then there's you know, managing
your kids, and then eventually you know you're going through menopause.
And so to be able to offer all of these products,
(11:29):
I think is you know, really unique to Maven and
we don't have any competitors there.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Can you talk about that last one, the menopause one,
because you know, I'll share a part of my family's
journey is you know, my wife and I have two kids,
and we're past where we're going to have kids, and
my wife has found that we know when she goes
to our ob G I N it's it's a very
you know here now discussion as opposed to you know,
what might happen over the next five to ten years
visa VI, you know, perimenopause and menopause. It seems like
(11:58):
there's a pretty obvious gap. Can you talk about what
you guys are offering and and you know what the
landscape looks like?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Sure, well, I think you know, just to kind of
paint the picture and the problem a little bit. I
think one of the most shocking statistics and in the
you know, the menopause category, is that when four out
of five women go to their doctor with symptoms, they're
not actually leaving with treatment or support because a lot
of the ob GYNs aren't actually trained on menopause in
(12:27):
medical school and many of them actually just don't there's
no protocol for a lot of the symptom management. So
so what what our program does is, you know, we
do have the largest telemedicine network.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
We have a lot of ob GYNs.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
We also have a lot of other types of providers
that specialize in menopause support rather whether it's around sleep
or nutrition, and we also offer hormone replacement therapy HRT,
and so between connecting somebody who is able to talk
directly with someone who has the experience menopause and specializes
(13:02):
in it as well as get medication if it's important
and necessary for them. And again that's a decision that
you know, the doctor and the patient will make because
patients don't always need it, you know, if they have
the right support from their doctor and symptom management plan
then then that is you know that that's kind of
I think pretty stand out in the industry to be
(13:23):
able to offer all of that. But I think what's
what's really interesting as well, which you know we're going
also a step further, is that there's a lot in
the menopause industry where you know, menopause is a period
of time where your body is changing, and if you
look at a lot of the women's health issues that
hit after menopause, a lot of them disproportionately start around
(13:45):
this time.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
And so whether that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Is an autoimmune disease or thyroid conditions, you know, a
lot of it starts after menopause. And so there is
a ton around preventative health and helping people, you know,
connect to screenings and linkage. It is to a lot
of the really interesting stuff in the longevity category, you know,
to to menopause support because similar to pregnancy where women
(14:08):
it's really an entry point into the healthcare system.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
You're going to the doctor.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
A lot to get support and you are engaging a
lot and preventative health, you know, menopause is the same
the same, and so you know you're you're you're going
to the doctor, whether you're getting the support or not,
I don't know, but but you're going to the doctor
and it's just this moment where you're going through a
lot and you're really focused on your body and and
and you know, lifestyle and symptom management and so it's
(14:34):
it's there's so much that we can do as a
as a as a women's you know, health industry to
to better support women going you know, during this life stage.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It makes me think that you have a whole offering,
you know, spanning the gamut and the journey. When when
employers come onto your platform, did they get the whole
platform from a business perspective, model perspective, or or do
they sign up for certain modules all a cart yep, sign.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Up for whatever part of the platform they want to
start with. And they typically either you know, bring it
all on at once, and we see that a lot
in our you know SMB small and medium sized business
market or you know, if there if you're a larger
and more complex employer, you might have you know, only
budget for some or you might have you know, like
(15:21):
you might have something in house and you might only
need something, so you know, they might bring on you know,
only fertility and maternity and bring pediatrics on later and
so so that's typically how we see it. But really
our core that we see almost all the time is
that fertility and maternity bundle.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
And do you have a land and expand strategy? Do
you have any metrics around you know, the people who
start our customers who start on fertility, you know, in
a two three years time now they've added you know,
two or three more additional modules.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
We do, Yes, we really track at the lifetime value
of all of our customers. We don't talk about them publicly,
but that is absolutely you know, our land and expand
strategy and TV and kind of going with someone throughout
their whole journey and not having them on the platform
for a few years, but you know ten plus years
is very much you know, the folks there of our product.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I think one of the other things that makes you
guys very unique is your global mandate if you will.
You know, you said you talked about starting the company
in London and you have operations overseas. What does that
look like for a large multinational? You know, do you
offer the same benefits globally? And you know which countries
are are you in today? And you know, maybe are
(16:33):
the core to the international offering.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Sure, so we're in almost all countries because when you
work with some of the bigger employers as well as
having a consumer product out there, which we do, you know,
I think that you know, we're in one hundred and
seventy plus countries or something like that.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So but we do have our top countries.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Our top countries are the UK, Canada, Australia, India, and
Japan and I think Germany is sixth. And you know,
I think what we look at global as a separate
program that a company purchases, so that's another area of
land and expand and you know, Danielle reminded me, I
am allowed to share that ninety five percent of our
(17:14):
new clients offering, you know, offer two or more MAVEN
programs to their employees. So hopefully that gives you a
sense of color, yes, of you know that that strategy.
But anyways, but with the global piece, we are seeing
that more and more coming up in the RFPs and
in the market, particularly in the last twenty four months
(17:36):
because I think what the pandemic did was brought a
real focus on health equity and global equity, and it's
really hard to have a fertility and family building benefit
only in one country and not all if you're a
global employee an employer, because there's so many different laws
and rules and regulations, and the fertility industry is so
(17:59):
nascent in so many countries that a lot of those
families are going to their employers for the support. And
it really doesn't feel equitable or fair if you know,
you only offer that family building support to some of
your employees but not all.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
And your strategy internationally, has it been to build organically
or have you acquired some assets that maybe we were
on the ground already in some of these markets.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Sure, so we launched our first global clients in twenty eighteen,
and so in the beginning it was just to grow
naturally and organically. It was really a client demand and
a client request, and so we would you know, partner
with the US clients, and then the US clients, you
know that the US multinationals would then expand Maven into
other offices. You know, in the last eighteen months, we've
(18:45):
really seen this pick up, not just from you know,
smaller companies, but big fortune tends. I mean today we
served three of the largest companies in the world globally,
and so that was when we felt that we wanted to,
you know, acquire a company in our are just market
outside the US, which is the UK. And so we
bought a company called Natal about three or four months ago.
(19:08):
And you know, they were doing a lot of the
telemedicine locally in the UK and and and so they
had a great provider network and they had a lot
of shared values with us. The founder is great Leila,
and they had made a lot of inroads and they
were just starting to sell into a lot of benefits
teams and so really, you know, what we noticed was
(19:31):
that the UK is is you know, they're they're a
little bit behind the US, but a lot of the
local companies are now looking to add fertility and family
building benefits because it's just a big gap in the
healthcare system, you know, in the UK. And so whether
it's fertility and family building benefits, which is the most
popular global product, or you know, maternity and return to work,
(19:54):
that's another big area that that a lot of global
employers are are focused on. You know, we that was
kind of why are why why why we we pursued
Natal So we're you know, we still have a team
that works with a lot of the US benefits employee
buyers and the multinationals. But then our local UK team
(20:15):
now is also you know, really focused on the UK
and Ameya.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And if you buy for Kate, between those those two
customer bases, you know, the large multinationals who have operations everywhere,
and maybe a corporate who's you know just in the
United States or just in the UK. Are they asking
you for very different services or or demands or is
it pretty standard that most people want you know, this
this core offering and then they might expand into something else.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It does depend. I mean, every country is obviously very different.
So in Japan, for instance, they're very focused on keeping
women in the workforce because there's a lot of gaps
at this senior leadership level and you know in in
corporations in Japan, and so that return work product is
really important. And a lot of our materials you know
(21:03):
there and you know, are translated because there's not as
many English speakers. So Japan is definitely a unique market,
whereas you know a place like Canada where you have
a very uneven fertility industry where it's actually really hard.
You know, there's a public health system in Canada, it's
really hard to get access sometimes, particularly in certain provinces,
(21:24):
to to clinic appointments, you know, and then there's also
a twelve month uh you know, well in some cases
there's a you know, a very long paid leave. You know,
there's also a focus there, so you know, it just
it just totally depends. I know that in India as well,
there is there's actually thousands of fertility clinics, but many
(21:48):
of them are not necessarily vetted and from a quality standpoint,
and so you know, definitely clients in that region has
turned to us to kind of really help people not
gate navigate the industry there. And then with surrogacy, there's
a lot of medical tourism. With adoption, you know, those
laws are really complex across state borders and country borders.
(22:11):
So you know, our teams, we have an internal you know,
research team and an internal wiki that's just constantly being
updated with our all of these uh you know, these countries'
laws so that we can help people kind of navigate
all of them. And it's it's certainly not it's certainly
very complex.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Let's just say that.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, something that you said around accessing Canada made me
made me think about some of the research I had
done ahead of our discussion today, and I was surprised
to learn about the care deserts for women's health in
the United States. Was that something you knew going into
the starting the company or were you surprised by those
statistics as well?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh, my gosh, I you know, I knew a lot
of stories of how underserved women and families are in
the healthcare system, but then when you when you being
in the industry and seeing all of these statistics, No,
I definitely did not know that. But yeah, I think
it's pretty telling that you know, almost forty percent of
US counties don't have in obgu I n and those families,
(23:09):
you know, the babies are delivered by a family physician,
and there's just not a lot of choice or a
lot of personalization and a lot of those patient provider relationships,
which particularly in communities that our more lower income, there's
not a lot of trust also in the first place
with the healthcare system, so you know, when you when
(23:30):
you just don't have a lot of access there and
there's not a lot of provider diversity, and it just
it does not lead to good outcomes.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I know, it's it's been a wild roller coaster ride there,
you know, especially in through the lens of the Row
versus Wade and the Dobbs decision. How has that changed
some of the discussions you're having and what's your view
on the landscape, you know, post.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
That decision, Well, in the immediate aftermath, a lot of
people kind of scrambled to get policies in place. I think,
you know, in this this dan age that we live in,
it's so hard to plan for every single crisis that is.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And so what we saw is.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Even though we knew that, you know, the Dobbs decision
was coming because of SBA and Texas you know, about
eight months earlier, still there was a mad scramble at
the at the end of the day to get a
reproductive health travel policies in place. You know, we may
even support that through our financial product maybe and wallet.
We also had launched a product and have it today
(24:33):
called the Pregnancy Options Counseling Program, which just really helps
somebody understand what their options are if they get pregnant,
particularly if they get pregnant in a state with restricted access.
I think that the stories though we were still people
don't understand or know the depth of what chaos. This
has kind of and havo. This is this is kind
(24:54):
of you know, have come on local hospitals and a
lot of these states because you know, miscarriage as well
is an area that is gray and it's very common.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
It's a core part of pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Often twenty percent of women about you know, went out
of one out of five pregnancies, so about twenty percent
of pregnancies and in miscarriage, and that's considered often the
technical term for that is is a mised abortion. And
so when a lot of women in a lot of
these states are trying to get support for even that
that part of the prenatal care, you know, providers don't
(25:26):
know what to do and they're not helping them and
that's just dangerous. And so that there there's still just
I think a lot that is coming out that we
don't totally know, but certainly on the employer and the
and the payers side, everyone looked to kind of add
these reproductive health travel benefits. They look to add pregnancy options, counseling,
and just better support their employees. And I think, you know,
(25:47):
we're headed into an election year next year, but it's
certainly going to be one of the hot button political
issues that I'm sure there's going to be a lot
more data and stories that are going to come out
around you know, what what what restricted access does to
health outcomes?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
And as we sit here today and you think about,
you know, you mentioned the election next year, is there
anything on the legislative front that would be a boon
to your business model or you know, the flip side
if we saw another decision. You know, probably there's not
much out there on the Rod versus Wade scale. But
you know, as I think about what could be a
(26:26):
tailwind for the industry, you know, how are you guys
advocating or is the industry advocating in Washington? What are
you advocating for? And where a kind of the pockets
of key opportunity?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Sure, so, I mean I would say the two areas
of policy that well, there's actually way more than two.
But some of the area some that come to mind,
first of all, are medicaid expansion in some of the
key states. You know, there are a lot of women
(26:59):
who babies will lose coverage after sixty days. That also
leads to you know, bad health outcomes in some cases
maternal death because a lot of the maternal mortality rate
occurs you know, in the first year after a baby
is delivered, So definitely expanding coverage and through Medicaid expansion
(27:21):
policies would be a big one in maternal health. Another
one that I think is important that has just stalled
a lot is just support around childcare. I think, you know,
there was a really interesting bill around you know, subsidies
or universal pre K. I think that's a really important
one that we just you know, it's happening on a
state by state level in some cases, but I think,
(27:45):
you know, federally mandated would be helpful to all working families,
particularly the universal pre K. And then you know, others
like paid paid leave, we still don't have that.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So there's a lot there.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
And on the policy front, you know, I think a
lot of this is going to be talked about at
the election, you know, in the election cycle next year,
but we're already seeing Roe v. Wade being one of
the you know, the most talked about things, and I think,
you know, it is a good thing to talk about this,
and it's a good thing to share a lot of
the data and a lot of the outcomes data coming
(28:21):
out of these hospitals in these states. With restricted access
to give just a better understanding of what this does
to healthcare, because I think every major you know, American
Medical Association came out after the Jobs decision and said, hey,
this is this is going to lead to worse outcomes.
This is not you know, our job is to do
no harm by the patient. This is doing harm to
(28:42):
the patient. And you know, I think if for people
who didn't totally understand that all the data is now
just out there.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Is government a material portion of your business today. I
mean it sounds like the medicaid piece could be over time.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Well, we have definitely seen a lot more interest from
medicaid plans and we do work with quite a few
now in certain markets like Tennessee and Ohio and Arkansas
and Oklahoma. So so we are we are we are
definitely in that market and that market is growing.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
It's it's that not a fast market though.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I mean I think that you know, because of the
way that a lot of the deals are procured through
the state or the state issues in RFP, and you know,
it's just a it's a much longer cycle and there's
a lot more compliance and there's a you know, the
rates are much lower, but but the need is so
great and so and so, you know, I think it's
an area that we are continuing to With each market
(29:42):
that you launch, you just learn so much, and you know,
and so I think at a certain point, you know,
each market is very different, but when you're in enough markets,
then you're able to kind of, you know, build that
truly scalable model to all fifty states.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That's fascinating if you if you think about where where
the white space is is free, you know going forward
our you know, government sounds like maybe it's one and
it's a it's a longer tailed investment process, but where
where else would you like to be?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I mean, you know, when we look at some of
our key key growth areas, certainly going deeper into medicaid
is one of them. Another is global because that industry
is also kind of exploding, which is you know, as
we talked about earlier, why we we just acquired natle
To to be our team on the ground in the UK.
And then you know, I think what what is really
(30:33):
exciting to me is, you know, we do have this
platform and so we're able to kind of recut come
of our some of our core capabilities to the you know,
to the consumer that we're designing for. And so whether
it's someone going through metopause or you know, someone a
parent who is navigating complex pediatric needs, it is, you know,
(30:53):
there's just we've just.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
We feel like we're at the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
And I think with all of the recent progress in AI,
I would actually say, I'm just so excited to leverage
a lot of that technology and better personalize our journeys,
uh with with you know, a more intelligent care platform.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's fascinating. I think the opportunity there is going to
be pretty pretty profound, and it'd be interesting to see
how everybody harvests that technology, you know, into their into
their platforms. You know, where are you spending the majority
of your time today? That's maybe different from the pandemic.
You know, I think a lot of the leaders that
I speak to over the last couple of years said,
you know that that was a very hectic time and
(31:35):
now it's back to business as usual. But you're still
a growth company. You know, where's your focus today?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You know, it's it switches all the time, but right now,
you know, in the in the month of June, I
would say, I'm very focused on product at the moment,
because there's just so much exciting stuff as we just
talked about with AI and what we can do that
I'm very heavily involved.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
There, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I think that because when you're a high growth company
at this stage, company culture is is so critical. I mean,
it's it's you know, my job to create a culture
where we get the best people and they want to
work here and they want to stay here, and as
we grow, they're still you know, their best self, and
they're innovative and they're scrappy and they're not weighed down
(32:22):
by you know, overly bureaucratic systems, and so so that's
that's a really fun challenge as well. And and so
I would say, yeah, those are the two areas. And
then of course it's just the market in our category
evolved so quickly. You know, menopause went from being something
that people were kind of somewhat interested in to everybody
wanted to buy it, and it was our fastest selling product,
(32:45):
you know, in the history. And so you know, also
just being in the market talking to people and keeping
my ear on the ground is you know, I think
also just a really important part of the job.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It sounds like product is going to be your focus
within your term. But you know, if I think about
your journey and and the funding that you guys have done,
you know since inception, I mean, it seems like you're
in a pretty good place operationally, you know, even if
the times are maybe a little bit more volidile. Can
can you talk a little bit about, you know, what
the last couple of rounds that you've done, what that
capital has been here mark for and how you see
(33:17):
maybe your capital needs growing or changing over over time.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Sure, so we to We did a Series D in
twenty twenty one and that was about one hundred and
ten million. We did a Series E last year and
about you know, in the fall I was ninety million,
and so you know, both of those fundraises were to
really kind of you know, scale up our product ahead
(33:42):
of a lot of the growth that we had just signed.
And so because we work with a lot of the
payers and we sell through the pairs, that has just
increased the velocity through which we're bringing on new clients.
And so you know, we've invested a lot of that
money quite frankly into our product and engineering team without
actually growing as much our sales and marketing teams, and
(34:04):
that's really to ensure that you know that the you know,
we cover fifteen million lives today, but when we cover
fifty million lives at the level of service and quality
is still just as high.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And so you know, so that's one area.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
And then another area, of course, has been you know,
growth and adjacent markets. So you know, medicaid we've been
investing in that product global obviously, like those you know,
those are two areas in the last twelve months that
we have certainly seen a lot of appetite for from
our core buyers.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
When you stand up a new client, you know, like
a large health plan or a large corporate, you know
that investment that you have to make. What do you
have to do to I guess flip the switch on
jan one for those members? Is it is it a
customized solution that integrates with the health plan or the
commercial client's benefit system.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Well, it depends really on the on the buyer and
the buyers complexity and their population. So you know, for
a smaller buyer, it's turnkey, it's very kind of off
the shelf.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
We can implement you know, in a week, and that's
very fast. You know, we have.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
You know, hundreds and hundreds of clients there. If it's
a more complex buyer where they have specific needs or
they want specific integrations, you know, that's just really a
conversation we have. And there's also the pre preparation for
the communication plan and how to describe the benefit to employees.
Sometimes in populations where there's union employees, you know, there's
(35:36):
different different things you have to do there. So you know,
if you're selling an employer through a payer, if you're
selling directly to a payers felling in sure population, if
you're selling to a medicaid plan, it's all a little
bit different. And so that's why we do have a
big client delivery team to again just make sure that
that service and that experience is you know, as exceptional
(35:56):
for the client implementation team as it is for the member.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
On related note, your payment model, how do people typically
how do you generate revenue? Is is it feed for
service per member per month? Do you take any risk
sharing arrangements with customers?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
All of the above.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
So again, each client has their own complexities, and there
are certain clients that may have been doing p p
ms or pm pms for a long time and they
don't want to deviate that Others you know want a
case rate and others want you know, and then we
have value based deals as well, where there's shared savings
(36:34):
on both you know, upside and whatnot. So it really
it really depends on the on the buyer, and we're
seeing you know, we see a lot of diversity there.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
It's interesting because you know, it seems like value based
cares kind of all the rage and the stuff that
I look at in the public markets. You know, what's
your view on on the you know, the health the
US health systems move in that direction. Where do you
think we are and you know, how how far away
do you think we are from really being in a
value based care model.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Well, it's certainly where we need to go, and so
I think everyone in the healthcare industry is aligned that
that is where we're going. The question is when, And
I think that it's taken longer than some people have thought.
I think, you know, there if you look at some
of the recent big payer earnings announcements, it's really interesting
to see you know, some pairs like Anthem or Elevans
(37:27):
going you know, much more aggressively into some value based
care deals. And so you know that changes here and
the and the train has left the station. I still
think though, you know, there are specific muscles and payment
mechanisms that you need to execute a value based deal
that a lot of.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
People actually don't have.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And so sometimes what slows things down, I think is
that you know, no one has the people that the
two parties don't have the setup for it, and so
that's kind of you know's what's great is as these
bigger players adopt more and more value based care deals,
that will force more people in the industry to kind
of develop the right internal systems to support value based care.
(38:11):
And so, you know, I think it's it's moving faster,
and I actually think AI will be helpful here. It's
just it has it has moved, I think, more slowly
than people have liked.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know, you talked about some of the big players
in the health plan industry. You know, what, what do
you think about them maybe moving into this space over time?
I mean, is it eventual that as you know, women's
health becomes a bigger piece of the pie and everybody's
offering becomes more sophisticated, and or we get these larger
platforms that that might be a service model that I
(38:46):
don't know a CBS or United or Optum or I
know those are the same company, but or Elevance, you know,
might turn to say, you know, this is something that
we should have in house and not necessarily you know,
go outside the walls of our our building to offer.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Well, sure, I mean, I think the model that a
lot of the pairs have always had is let's build
everything in house, and so that hasn't changed that desire.
I think what you know, what's just really important though,
is that with COVID and how fast everything changed and
accelerated into virtual care, that you know, everyone just needed
something overnight, and there were some you know, some pairs
(39:24):
and some companies that were at more advanced stages than
others and offering the virtual care and then you know,
so that's there's one part of it. And I think
the other part of it is, you know, really what
it comes down to is if you have a virtual product.
And one of the biggest things besides the outcomes that
people are really looking at is patient engagement. If you
don't have an engage, if you don't have a good
(39:45):
product that is easy to use and is reliable, and
I mean is basic stuff and it is nice to
look at and it's intuitive, then people aren't going to
use your product. And so I think the art of
creating an excellent, you know, uh technology platform that can
really build that trust with a member who knows that
(40:05):
they're you know, what they're logging into is going to
actually help them and it's going to work. There's still
not a lot in healthcare that that meets that bar,
which is so I look forward to more products meeting
that bar, but I think we're still in the very
early innings of that that resonates.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I don't know anybody who said I love my insurance
company's website.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, or many digital health products, right.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
I think it's just it's such a complex industry, and
I you know, it's it's a hard industry to work in.
A lot of my friends in digital health, like we talk,
there's just layer upon layer of complexity. So it's very
very hard, and so I think to do it right
is harder than you know, most other industries.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
And so, but there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Great entrepreneurs who are who are you know, trying and
who have been in the market for long enough. One
of the biggest things you have to do is just
survive because you know, it takes a certain amount of
capital and time to just start to get a lot
of it right. And so what I think was really
exciting right now is looking around at some of my
peers and other industries, you know, whether it's chronic disease
management or mental health, and you know they've been at
(41:10):
it as well, you know, six seven, eight, nine years,
and to see, you know, what they're doing to their products.
I think there's just a lot better products today and
they'll only get better than there were kind of three
years ago. Now.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
It's fascinating. We've had a number of founders on the
podcast who kind of fit that bill, and the amount
of change in the market has just been something outstanding
to see. You know, maybe if we just finish up here,
you know, one of the things I like to ask
our guests as to end the podcast is to focus
on one of the life lessons that they've learned. And
(41:43):
I typically ask, what's some of the best advice that
you've gotten in your business career or in your personal
life that you share with either your employees or your family.
That is one of the lessons that maybe has stayed
with you over time.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
Sure, so you know, it's it's it's kind of trite
because everyone says it, but it's completely true. Is that
you know, the the resilience and grit and persistence that
you need is really everything. And to you know that
you can be really kicked down and really, you know,
have ten bad things happened to you or to your company,
(42:20):
and you know you have to be of a mindset
that you know you're just going to continue to get
up the next day and look for the silver lining
and continue to build and continue to see opportunity. And
so not certainly not everyone can can handle that, but
I think you know, certainly you My dad was an entrepreneur,
so I have those values. I think, you know, I
(42:44):
was raised with them, which I'm very grateful for. But
it's it's really hard. And so I think it's that
grit and that resilience and that persistence that all all
people need, is what I tell my kids, right, but
I try to what I try to help them understand too,
and I think in this world that we live in
more broadly, that is just so uncertain. You know, resilience
and grit is everything.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
That's great advice. I'm gonna share that with my kids
as well, well, I want to thank you Kate for
joining us here today. It's it's been a fascinating discussion.
I can't wait to see what you guys do next,
and hopefully we can chat again soon
Host
Jonathan Palmer
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