August 15, 2025 • 42 mins
River Phoenix’s story is one of brilliance and tragedy, and both his life and work illuminated the beauty and the darkness of the human experience. In “Gone Too Soon,” the third episode of Variety and iHeart Podcasts’ “Variety Confidential,” host Tatiana Siegel uncovers the final days of River’s life up until that fateful night in October 1993, when Hollywood lost one of its brightest stars. Actor Samantha Mathis, River’s then-girlfriend who was with him when he died at age 23, details her memories including co-starring in “The Thing Called Love,” his last film that was released.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This show contains mature content and adult themes, it may
not be suitable for young audiences.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And the mysterious death of actor Phoenix is also shaking
the film community tonight. The twenty three year old Phoenix
collapsed early this morning and died a short time later.
It happened outside of West Hollywood Nightclub.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
From Variety and iHeart Podcasts, this is Variety Confidential, the
Life and Legend of River Phoenix. I'm Tatiana Siegel, Executive
editor of Film and Media Variety. In the first two episodes,
(00:39):
we explored River's rise to fame, his ground baking films,
and how the filming of My Own Private, Idaho set
the actor on a dangerous path. Today, we will uncover
the final days of River's life up until that fateful
night in October nineteen ninety three when Hollywood lost one
of its brightest stars. Let's listen to this interview from
(01:00):
the early nineties.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
How do you see yourself fitting in with the younger
Hollywood acting?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
I don't see I don't see myselves. Boy, that's I
wonder what that means selves. Yeah, a few of those
guys in me, I don't see any of them in
the perspective or in the limelight idea of Hollywood, or
I just I really don't ever want to get that
objective or self conscious of my place in this world
(01:30):
concerning showbiz, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
By nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix's struggles with substance abuse
had become an open secret within Hollywood, but the actor
kept taking on more projects, even as one of his
closest friends, Matthew Ebert, begged him to take a break
and focus on sobriety. Despite his friends please, River began
shooting Dark Blood that fall, the twisty thriller co star
(01:56):
Jonathan Price and Judy Davis. Matthew remembers of her calling
him after a difficult day on set.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
He called me during that time, and there's a horrible
thing that happened between him and Judy Davis, and she
had just read in the Riot Act one day, and
he really admired Judy very much, and it just crushed him.
I remember talking to him about it, and he was
just devastated, just devastated by what she had said and
(02:28):
what he could no longer control. And I thought to myself,
why is no one in that production saying, dude, we're
gonna get some help. We're gonna close down, We're gonna
start over. Judy was very disciplined. I think she was
trying to be hard love. She's being tough love. You
couldn't not know he was using because he was a mess.
He had come to set literally fucked up, speedy, not
(02:51):
the same guy. There was no support for him to
get sober. It wasn't hey, this is really an illness.
We got to figure out how quietly and calmly, how
do you do that with a huge celebrity in nineteen
ninety ninety one, ninety two, How do you do it
without the media and everything on top of it back then?
How do you do it in a culture that only
(03:12):
wants to shame you, that only wants to point out, Oh,
he's so healthy. Now look at him. I guess he's
not so healthy. I guess he's really a scumbag. He's
not a vegan, and he's a heroin addict. So it
gave the whole narrative to anyone who was jealous. And
we know how Hollywood is. You know, if you're up,
somebody's always got to shive out. In the last year
of his life, I was really trying to stay stober,
(03:35):
and he would call me like like let's go do
this thing, Come go see and I really had to
avoid it. I had to avoid him. Was heartbreaking to
me now that I couldn't see him because I was
trying to clean up.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
River died before Dark Blood was finished. The film has
never been seen in theaters outside of a few film festivals.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
The speed with which River descended and died, I've never
seen anyone go that fast. Never. In many years now
of counseling people and being a sponsor and many many
years sober, I've never seen anyone deteriorate so quickly in
my life.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
In nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix celebrated the Halloween holiday
at the Viper Room, located on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles.
The nightclub and music venue, partly owned by actor Johnny Depp,
quickly became a hotspot among Hollywood's most popular young stars.
River was there with his girlfriend Samantha Mathis, brother Joaquin,
(04:42):
and sister Rain. It was meant to be a night
of celebration, but it ended in tragedy. Michelle Sabrino, Stearn's
Variety CEO and group publisher, was there that night.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
He was a heart throb, but he also had he
had a cool factor. He was the cool guy and
entertainment and I just remember seeing him sitting there. I mean,
we were all young women. We all had crushes on
River Phoenix. He was one of the biggest stars in
the country, if not the world. He had a massive
(05:16):
fan base, and we were thrilled to be in the
same room as River Phoenix. I didn't think that this Unfortunately,
something would happen like him passing away.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
What do you remember when you saw him?
Speaker 7 (05:32):
We were out. It was Saturday night. It was October thirtieth,
nineteen ninety three. It's a big night in LA. Halloween
is a big deal. Halloween was actually the next day,
but everybody was celebrating. It was Saturday night and it
was vibrant and exciting, and we were all in costumes,
and you know, when you're young, you really do it up.
So somebody from the Viber room came over and invited
(05:54):
us to bypass the line. And this is one of
those fun LA moments that we took advance, and so
we did. And I remember walking in and seeing people
in costumes and it was just fun and music was
blasting and people were drinking, and it was just very
exciting and very fun. It was highly exclusive. We didn't
(06:14):
even think we would try.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It was that.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Exclusive, and when we were invited and escorted in, I
just remember it being and I didn't expect it to
be fancy. It was actually gritty, and I loved that.
It was like music was blaring, and everybody kind of
seemed to know each other, and it was very from
today's standards now that I'm in the industry. It was
(06:39):
very Hollywood, if you will. Everybody kind of knew each other.
Everybody was talking with each other, and I felt comfortable, strangely,
even though I didn't know anyone in the room and
I was young. Almost everybody in that room was highly,
highly intoxicated. It was a bar, and it was a
very fun party. It was a Halloween party.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Did it surprise you at all what you saw?
Speaker 7 (07:01):
Yeah, it surprised me. Of course. You see somebody in
all these movies that you love, and you picture them
differently than sitting on a couch. But it was obviously him.
We were all excited to see him, but he looked tired,
and we just assumed that, like everyone else in that room,
he had had a few too many drinks. The Viper
Room was that cool place that all the celebrities hung out,
(07:24):
and it was private, And to your point, we weren't
running around with phones taking pictures of each other and
posting it on social media at the time.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So how'd you find out the next day that he
had passed to what?
Speaker 6 (07:36):
I think?
Speaker 7 (07:36):
I remember hearing about it on the news. I actually
remember my parents talking about it. River Phoenix was an
incredible actor. So even though all of us young women
were in love with him, he spanned all generations and
people admired him for being a tremendous actor. And I
remember my parents talking about it. I was horrified. My
(07:58):
girlfriends and I called each other and it was just very,
very sad.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, had such a career ahead of him.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
Yeah, he was tremendous.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
A Variety report published on November eighth, nineteen ninety three
reads as follows. Though it's been said that Fever Phoenix's
band was going to play at the Viper Room in
West Hollywood when he died early Sunday morning, they didn't.
It's more likely he was there to see the band
that did, called p The combo consisted of Flea of
(08:31):
the Red Hot Chili Peppers frontman Gibby Haynes of the
Butthole Surfers on vocals, Tom Petty keyboardist benmont Tench on organ,
actor and Viper Room employee Sal Jenko on drums, and
the unlikely guitar duo of Al Jorgenson Ministry and producer
of Nirvana's latest effort in Uterow, the Actor club owner
(08:55):
Johnny Depp. Perhaps the eerious moment of the evening came
during this second song, when Haines's impromptu vocals turned into
a meandering ramble about RIM's Michael Stite and River Phoenix.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Please there again? Gun down over, Okay, what's the other's
lab at the Viper Road.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Variety reported at the time that River was leaving the
Viper Room at about one am when he fell to
the ground, adding that friends reported that the actor had
been acting strange. He was rushed to Cedar Sinai Medical Center,
where he was pronounced dead at one fifty one am
on November fifteenth. The Los Angeles County Coroner's Office confirmed
(09:45):
to Variety that River had died of a drug overdose.
Toxicology tests later showed lethal levels of morphine heroin and cocaine.
Traces of marijuana, vallium, and over the counter cold medication
were also found. His death was ruled accidental. The actor's
passing sent shockwaves through Hollywood and beyond. The News of
(10:07):
his passing reached the front page of Variety, which called
him quote one of the most versatile and prominent of
contemporary young actors end quote. Variety's executive editor Brent Lang
recalls the response from the Hollywood community in the weeks
following the actor's death.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Well, I think in a lot of ways, his death,
because it was so shocking, is analogous to what happened
with John Belushi, where you had this kind of blazing
talent that their flame was sort of extinguished at such
a young age. The impact was really seismic, and it
was a wake up call too. I think for people
(10:44):
that if you played around in a certain kind of
pool with a lot of very very dangerous drugs, this
was something that could end up happening to you. He
was both an inspiration for a lot of people in
the way that he acted on SCO and his kind
of magnetism, his natural sort of innate charisma. But he
(11:06):
was also a cautionary tale about the perils and the
price of fame, and if you look at a kind
of how people responded in real time, it was I
think there was sort of a generational shift there that
happened after. I don't have evidence of this, but I
would I would assume that a lot of people who
were sort of moving in the path of doing really,
(11:27):
really dangerous drugs might have reconsidered that after what happened
to him.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
River's longtime friend Matthew Ebert still remembers getting the call.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
I got a call from a fellow actor in my
own private Idaho. He was in tears. It's like, what's
going on? Ever died? Totally?
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Remember it? You don't.
Speaker 7 (11:57):
You don't forget something like that.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
I felt. I felt a shame that I hadn't worked
harder to get him out.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
The outpouring of grief highlighted the profound impact he had
on those who knew him off camera and those who
admired his on camera work.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
From Afar, he was definitely an environmentalist. He came from
sort of a hippie family. He was a vegan before
people really knew what vegans were, and I think that
was also sort of shocking to people because he seemed
to have this kind of clean living persona. And I
know that people in the industry knew that he was
having drug issues, but the general public was shocked to
(12:38):
discover that that was something he was grappling with at
the time because of his kind of persona.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Matthew Ebert recalls taking Rivers ashes to the Phoenix family.
During that trip, Matthew remembers feeling angry with Rivers team
and those around him who could have prevented River's death somehow.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
After he died, I went to mickin Opie, where the
family is. I spent six weeks there. I brought his
ashes home to his mother. Never forget that, as long
as I live. I went with his sister and brought
him home and she cradled that like a baby. That
earned Never forget that, as long as I live, or
(13:22):
what it was like to hear he was dead and
he's gone on like just gone.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Like that.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
It's so fast.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Never ever saw somebody move so quickly from playful drug
use to death. And it's because you have all this money,
you have all this power, you have a huge machine
in the studio. Nobody's saying shit like you know, that's
an agent's job. That's really like your your manager and
your agent's job is to watch out for your health
(13:55):
and your and your welfare. That there's no other place
to put that. Your agent, your manager, your team, the
people around you, they're responsible when that happens. That's your
job to protect that person when the pressures and everything
from the outside are killing them. You know, that is
(14:17):
why I was so upset with the team, because it
was so obvious, it was so self evident. All you
had to do was go sit in the rushes. You'd
see a completely different person on that screen than you
did three years ago. There was all this stuff and
all these pressures. You take all these different rays of
light and you put it on the you shine a
(14:38):
light on it. You realize there was all these different
things working to make this perfect storm. There were all
these different pressures, not only from the drugs and the
people in the community and the study and your friends
then as now, if you're a celebrity, somebody's going to
throw you a bag. Somebody's going to do you know,
people want its currency. Back then, it was the currency
(15:00):
of cool. You know, you could go you know, I
could take them to see a band or there was
just it was everywhere, the night of the viper room.
Everywhere you want something, here it is and nobody's filtering
it and saying, you know, back then we didn't have fentanyl,
but certainly you could mix cocaine and heroin in a
bag and kill somebody like that and no one. It
(15:23):
went so fast.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Nearly a week after River's death, Variety reported that simultaneous
funeral services were held for River. His family hosted one
in their home in Gainesville, Florida, while another private service
was held in La organized by Rivers A Night in
the Life of Jimmy Rearden co star Ione Sky Matthew,
can you describe the funerals? How well attended were they?
Speaker 6 (15:48):
They went to La and went to a few one
or two services there. Remember like all the young actors
were there, like Ethan Hawk I think was there, and
a bunch of mother and I spoke a little bit there.
There were a lot of people there at the farm
at the compound, and I wouldn't say there was kind
(16:09):
of a There was definitely like a service and all that,
but there wasn't like very non traditional outdoor and my
time there, I remember trying to take care of his father,
who was really in bad shape. And I would attend
(16:30):
to his father, it soak his feet, put him to bed.
His father was really in bad shape. The whole family
was in bad shape. I stayed six weeks and you
(16:52):
cry every day, you know, you're just like, oh God,
you know, they're like, what are we going to do?
I don't really remember.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
I remember the.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
Vibe around everybody by the water, but I think it
was just too emotional to have to really lock in
on any of it, Like it all just seemed like
a nightmare, a weird dream. To say that he was,
you know, it just seemed so corny to say all
the stupid shit people say about him, But it's really true.
(17:24):
No one else was like him, nobody on that set,
nobody on that no one had what he had. River
was really at the peak what would have been the
peak of his power, and without those drugs, he'd still
be at the peak of his power.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
In nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix's death shocked Hollywood and
the world. Very rarely has his then girlfriend, Samantha Mathis
spoken about him. Samantha, who was with River when he died.
Details were memories, including co starring in The Thing called Love.
His last film was released, and I know you've talked
(18:02):
about it, but for many years you did not talk
about River. Correct, Correct? Like decades?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Like two decades? All right?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, I mean I'm very protective of his memory and
his family and my memories. So I feel it's a
really delicate matter, and there's some things that I want
to keep for myself.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
I guess I'll start with heading into this thing called Love.
You did not know River before signing on. Correct?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
We had met, ever so briefly in a nightclub when
we were both nineteen. Obviously I was very aware of
who he was. He was really the one of the
greatest actors of our generation. But no, we didn't know
each other when I signed onto the movie.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Okay, so heading into the film, what were your expectations
and how did they ultimately turn out to be different
than what you were expecting.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I don't know. It's hard to speak to what my
expectations were in nineteen ninety three, when I was nineteen
ninety two, when I was twenty two years old. I mean,
I had seen most of his work and found him
to be extremely compelling and iconic and really inspiring and
(19:22):
quite frankly, though I knew who Peter Bogdanovitch was, it
was really River that compelled me to say yes to
the movie.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
What were your first impressions when you did meet River
face to face?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I mean, he was dazzling. He was just dazzling. He
had that spirit. He was feisty and smart and quick
and present. He was such a present person and a
bit of mischievousness to his personality, with a kind soul
(20:00):
and a true artist. He was a true artist. He
was very impressive.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
People often describe him and other actors that they're very
generous with how they allow you to as the co star,
to have your breath and space in the scene. Was
that kind of how it worked in terms of how
you played opposite one another and off of one another.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Obviously, we're talking about nineteen ninety two, so it's in
some ways really hard for me to speak with definitively
about what my experience was shooting that movie with him.
What I do remember clearly is that he was incapable
of being dishonest in his work, and that challenged me
(20:49):
in a way that I found really exciting and also terrifying.
I was not a confident performer at that age and
not as into une with my instrument as he was.
And it made me, I hope, a better actor because
he challenged me to be really present in the moment
and to be spontaneous and to really react to what
(21:14):
was happening. And I think that at that point I
was less confident to be able to act in that
way and more someone who plotted out what I was
going to do, you know, And so he was exciting
and generous, and it also felt a little dangerous in
a really vital way that makes something pop on the screen.
(21:39):
And we obviously had great chemistry, so that was also
all there on camera. We were taken by each other
and enjoyed each other.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Do you remember where it was in production? Like midway
towards the beginning, towards the end, when you realize like
we're in law or I'm trying to love with this person.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
It's complicated. It's complicated. I can't say exactly when it happened,
but you know, unfortunately I was with someone else at
the time that it happened, and so it was messy.
But it was also something that was undeniable between the
two of us, you know, eventually we did end up together.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Okay, what was the most memorable scene looking back all
these years and what do you remember from it? Kind
of take me back to it.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I mean, there are many memories that I have that
are so fond. I don't know which one is the most.
There's a scene between River and I in the back
of the pickup truck where we're supposed to be sitting
outside of Graceland, and it's just such a charming scene
between the two of us, getting to really let the
scene breathe and be with each other and be under
(22:53):
the stars in a romantic moment, and to just be
with him and and have this sort of languid quality
and scene where we could really find our beats was
really exciting. But also this this whole cast was amazing, right,
I mean, we had dermotmulrooney, and we had a then
unknown Sandra Bullock, and there was an electric energy between
(23:17):
all of us on set together that was really exciting.
River thought that Sandy was a star. I remember him
saying that to me, She's going to be a big star.
I remember it so clearly, and he was right, he was, Yeah,
he could see it in her.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Yeah, and it took a while for her to get
that those roles that really could show her amazing range
as an actress.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
But well, I think that doing the thing called Love
gave her the film that helped to get her speed.
That was a moment in time where her life completely
completely changed. H yeah, and we could all see it.
I mean, she was also had this sort of shiny spirit,
(24:10):
this this undeniable spark of in her case, like a
great sense of humor and ability to just be fearless
and make a complete fool out of herself. She could
make fun of herself and had a sense of humor
about herself and was just adorable. She was just undeniably adorable.
(24:33):
So it was a very exciting thing to see her
ascent into tremendous, tremendous success.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Did River have a great sense of humor, because if so,
that would be kind of surprising. He always seemed like
very you know, very sensitive and like somewhat introverted. But
that would be interesting to know was he did he
have a good sense of humor?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh? He I mean he grew up in a big family.
I don't think you can grow up in a big
family with a lot of kids without having a sense
of humor about yourself, or a sense of playfulness at
least that was true of his family than incredibly loving
but also playful.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You know, he.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
As an actor and as a musician was incredibly playful,
and he had a yeah, he had a mischievous quality.
He was a very intelligent person and his mind was quick.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So, Samantha, what ch of River's films would you point
young audiences and new generations of fans too, maybe people
who aren't familiar with his work.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Well, of course, my own Private Idaho was an extraordinary
performance and an extraordinary movie. So anyone who's interested in
seeing a really powerful, daring film with really bold work,
that I would highly highly suggest. Running on Empty was
(26:01):
something that left an indelible mark on my life. I
was eighteen and he was playing a young man in
a family that were activists who were on the run
for being involved in a political action where someone was killed.
He and Martha Plimpton played boyfriend girlfriend in that and
(26:24):
their chemistry was justugh, it was gorgeous. It was just
they were so alive together and beautiful together, and there
was a beauty to the dynamic that was created with
Christine Latti and jud Hirshs' parents and what that family
was like that as a child of a single parent,
(26:47):
I just wanted to be in that family, even though
they were on the run. But his journey as a
young man conflicted in that piece about to stay with
his family or to go off and make his own
life was just searingly painful and beautiful in his portrayal.
(27:08):
So those are two movies that really stand out to me.
I know he had a great connection with Harrison Ford
when he made Mosquito Coast. I know that they really
adored each other. Dan Akwerit was a friend of his
until the end and someone he adored just loved so much.
He worked with a lot of iconic people, for sure.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
His pace of working was actually kind of intense, and
there was a sort of, you know, like most people would,
I guess, take a longer period of time in between movies.
Do you think there's any accurate from your perspective.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I mean, I only knew him for the year year
and a half that I did, so I can't speak
to the length of his career and what speed he
was working. He was very passionate about the work and
was obviously in great demand. He had been meeting with
Nashka Holland about doing a movie together right after we finished.
(28:12):
There were many things that were of interest to him.
But after we wrapped the thing called Left, we spent
a month together on vacation, so it wasn't like he
wasn't capable of doing that. And he also spent a
great deal of time with his family, who obviously was
very important to him. Down in Florida. He had certainly
(28:33):
been working at quite a pace, and he started working
at a very young age, and we had definitely had
conversations about taking a pause and our mutual interest in
perhaps going to college.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Ill to see River's legacy as an actor and how
he maybe influenced the generation that came after him.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Well, he was undeniably one of the most talented, if
not the most talented young man of his generation. I
think he challenged all of us to be a better
actor and to be a better human because he was
also an activist who was quite outspoken about the environment.
He was so ahead of his time. I'm sure that
(29:18):
he was and continues to be a tremendous inspiration to
his brother, who I find to have startlingly talent, you know,
so equally present and daring and alive in his work.
And for those of us who knew him then and
(29:40):
worked with him or experienced just viewing him on screen,
he was dazzling in his talent. So I do think
that there are people of the generation coming up today
that are becoming aware of him because there is this
fascination with all things of the nineties, and he was
(30:01):
certainly emblematic of a lot in the nineties, even though
he passed away relatively soon into the nineties.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
The nineties were a very unique period and just like
even in America, like we were out of the eighties,
where it was like very you know, greed is good,
like the Reagan era, and like wasn't the seventies either,
which was like very gritty. How would you describe sort
of the landscape of Hollywood in the early nineties.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I feel like in some ways it was a very
fertile time. Independent cinema had really started to explode in
the late eighties, and I see the real exciting work
happening in the nineties. I feel like it was in
a way, the last Garrah of Hollywood before things became
(30:56):
so corporate, before boards of directors were deciding strictly about
shareholders stock options, where people were still invested in cinema,
in really making movies and being artists. We were really
the last generation that remembers life for cell phones, and
there was just an innocence to that, and a purity
(31:17):
to that, and a freedom to that that led to
great work and just a freedom, a freedom to be young, certainly,
and to be creative and to not just be held
under a lens. I feel so much for young actors
(31:39):
today and what's required and expected of them to be
a brand. There was no discussion of brand. You were
an artist. We wanted to be DeNiro, We wanted to
be Paccino, We wanted to be Meryl Street, Jessica Lang
and Ellen Burston, and we wanted to be great artists.
(31:59):
That's what we wanted to be. There was no discussion
of a brand. I do remember towards the end of
the nineties things starting to shift. There was a magazine
that came along called Maxim and suddenly my representation was like,
you should really do this, and I was like, would
Meryl Streep do this? Would should be on the cover
of a magazine and a bikini. I'm not doing that.
(32:21):
That has nothing to do with what I'm interested in
doing and becoming. Yeah, things changed in the nineties, but
there was an innocence to the beginning of the nineties
pre cell phone that I'm so grateful I experienced and
that I remember and no can exist.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Do you see sort of similarities with Johnny Depp's career also,
like I mean, Johnny Depp's another one where he loved
music and some loves music in some ways that sort
of like performing. And then they do seem to have
similarities as careers, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I mean, Johnny's obviously gone on to have a thirty
more years of a career than River unfortunately had. You know,
I think that as an artist and as a creative being,
it's really important to have outlets that you are not monetizing,
that are not there for anyone to co opt or
(33:21):
monetize or make something out of or profit from, but
to have it be your own and be pure and
true to it. My impression of Johnny is that he
does it because he loves it. He's ultimately you know,
he doesn't need it to survive, and he's not really
interested in anyone's opinion. Nor was River. He had a
really unique style as a musician and was something he
(33:48):
could lose time doing, being in the studio with his
with his sister and with his friends, writing music and exploring.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Was he friends with Johnny at the time. No, who
were other than his family some of his closest friends
in the industry? Or were they all outside of the industry.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
He really didn't have a lot of actor friends. No,
he had some. I mean, Dermott was a friend of his.
They had worked on a movie together years before, so
they were kind of like brothers. They were quite close.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
What do you think is the greatest legacy of River
as an actor?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
River was one of those actors who was incapable of
being dishonest. He really was so riveting because he was
so alive on camera. He demanded that of himself, he
demanded that of other people in scenes with him. He
was startlingly present. And that kind of courage and confidence
(34:54):
just eats up the screen. It eats it makes the
film come to life. It was undeniable.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Where do you think River's career would have gone? Would
he have stayed more comfortable in the like indie sphere.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
It's interesting to muse upon and it's impossible to say right.
I mean, he was also a really passionate musician, and
music meant the world to him, and he loved the
work of acting and hated the machine around what was
expected of you as an actor. That was not interesting
(35:33):
to him. So it's hard to say if he would
have continued and become an even bigger movie star, if
that would have been of interest to him. You know,
there was an anonymity and an ability to be more
abstract as an artist in his music, and of course
environmental work was very, very important to him, so I
(35:57):
know that would have been a huge part of his journey.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Tell me a little bit about his animal activism because
it's such a big part.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I mean I was a
meat eater when we started dating, and that horrified him
to no end. I remember driving in Beverly Hills. I
don't know where we were going or where we were
coming from what There were people on a street corner
protesting for animal rights. And he pulled over and pulled
(36:27):
all these pamphlets and stuck them in my face and
just said, just look at this, look at this. I
was like, oh God, okay, okay, okay, I hear you.
I hear you, and I ended up being vegan for
several years after that. I mean he changed me. I
can't say that I stuck with it, unfortunately, but he
(36:48):
did have that effect on me for several years afterwards.
He was incredibly sensitive to the suffering of others, including animals.
Including animals. Yeah, I hope that his legacy as a
human being overall is one of having been a tremendous
artist and activist who deeply cared about the world and
(37:13):
was a sensitive young man who left a mark forever
in Hollywood and left a mark forever on gen X.
I think he was an iconic person for our generation,
just like my parents talk about they knew where they
(37:33):
were when John F. Kennedy was killed. Pretty much everyone
I know knows exactly where they were when River died,
and what a loss of hope that was for our generation.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
But he.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Leaves behind an incredible body of work that I hope
is a real inspiration for the generations to come.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
River Phoenix's story is one of brilliance and tragedy, and
both his life and work illuminated the beauty and the
darkness of the human experience. In our next episode, we
discussed River Phoenix's lasting impact on those who knew him best,
and how his untimely death reshaped the conversation around addiction.
(38:23):
We'll also examine the tragedy of a Hollywood life taken
too soon. River was one of Hollywood's brightest young stars
whose final act was hampered by fame and drug addiction.
Subscribe to Variety Confidential the Life and Legend of River Phoenix,
and leave us a review to share your thoughts. Join
(38:43):
us next time as we continue to honor the legacy
of a remarkable talent. Variety Confidential is hosted by Tatiana
Siegel and produced by Karen Mizugucci and Sidney Kramer. Written
by Anna Mosluin, Karen Mizugucci and Tatiana Siegel, Executive produced
by Dea Lawrence, Variety's co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton,
(39:06):
and Ramins A two day edited and mixed by Aaron
Greenawald Variety Content Studio Executive producer Alex Hughes. Please refer
to sources and citations on Variety dot com. Attatatatatatatatatatatas
This show contains mature content and adult themes, it may
not be suitable for young audiences.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And the mysterious death of actor Phoenix is also shaking
the film community tonight. The twenty three year old Phoenix
collapsed early this morning and died a short time later.
It happened outside of West Hollywood Nightclub.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
From Variety and iHeart Podcasts, this is Variety Confidential, the
Life and Legend of River Phoenix. I'm Tatiana Siegel, Executive
editor of Film and Media Variety. In the first two episodes,
(00:39):
we explored River's rise to fame, his ground baking films,
and how the filming of My Own Private, Idaho set
the actor on a dangerous path. Today, we will uncover
the final days of River's life up until that fateful
night in October nineteen ninety three when Hollywood lost one
of its brightest stars. Let's listen to this interview from
(01:00):
the early nineties.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
How do you see yourself fitting in with the younger
Hollywood acting?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
I don't see I don't see myselves. Boy, that's I
wonder what that means selves. Yeah, a few of those
guys in me, I don't see any of them in
the perspective or in the limelight idea of Hollywood, or
I just I really don't ever want to get that
objective or self conscious of my place in this world
(01:30):
concerning showbiz, you know.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
By nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix's struggles with substance abuse
had become an open secret within Hollywood, but the actor
kept taking on more projects, even as one of his
closest friends, Matthew Ebert, begged him to take a break
and focus on sobriety. Despite his friends please, River began
shooting Dark Blood that fall, the twisty thriller co star
(01:56):
Jonathan Price and Judy Davis. Matthew remembers of her calling
him after a difficult day on set.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
He called me during that time, and there's a horrible
thing that happened between him and Judy Davis, and she
had just read in the Riot Act one day, and
he really admired Judy very much, and it just crushed him.
I remember talking to him about it, and he was
just devastated, just devastated by what she had said and
(02:28):
what he could no longer control. And I thought to myself,
why is no one in that production saying, dude, we're
gonna get some help. We're gonna close down, We're gonna
start over. Judy was very disciplined. I think she was
trying to be hard love. She's being tough love. You
couldn't not know he was using because he was a mess.
He had come to set literally fucked up, speedy, not
(02:51):
the same guy. There was no support for him to
get sober. It wasn't hey, this is really an illness.
We got to figure out how quietly and calmly, how
do you do that with a huge celebrity in nineteen
ninety ninety one, ninety two, How do you do it
without the media and everything on top of it back then?
How do you do it in a culture that only
(03:12):
wants to shame you, that only wants to point out, Oh,
he's so healthy. Now look at him. I guess he's
not so healthy. I guess he's really a scumbag. He's
not a vegan, and he's a heroin addict. So it
gave the whole narrative to anyone who was jealous. And
we know how Hollywood is. You know, if you're up,
somebody's always got to shive out. In the last year
of his life, I was really trying to stay stober,
(03:35):
and he would call me like like let's go do
this thing, Come go see and I really had to
avoid it. I had to avoid him. Was heartbreaking to
me now that I couldn't see him because I was
trying to clean up.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
River died before Dark Blood was finished. The film has
never been seen in theaters outside of a few film festivals.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
The speed with which River descended and died, I've never
seen anyone go that fast. Never. In many years now
of counseling people and being a sponsor and many many
years sober, I've never seen anyone deteriorate so quickly in
my life.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
In nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix celebrated the Halloween holiday
at the Viper Room, located on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles.
The nightclub and music venue, partly owned by actor Johnny Depp,
quickly became a hotspot among Hollywood's most popular young stars.
River was there with his girlfriend Samantha Mathis, brother Joaquin,
(04:42):
and sister Rain. It was meant to be a night
of celebration, but it ended in tragedy. Michelle Sabrino, Stearn's
Variety CEO and group publisher, was there that night.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
He was a heart throb, but he also had he
had a cool factor. He was the cool guy and
entertainment and I just remember seeing him sitting there. I mean,
we were all young women. We all had crushes on
River Phoenix. He was one of the biggest stars in
the country, if not the world. He had a massive
(05:16):
fan base, and we were thrilled to be in the
same room as River Phoenix. I didn't think that this Unfortunately,
something would happen like him passing away.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
What do you remember when you saw him?
Speaker 7 (05:32):
We were out. It was Saturday night. It was October thirtieth,
nineteen ninety three. It's a big night in LA. Halloween
is a big deal. Halloween was actually the next day,
but everybody was celebrating. It was Saturday night and it
was vibrant and exciting, and we were all in costumes,
and you know, when you're young, you really do it up.
So somebody from the Viber room came over and invited
(05:54):
us to bypass the line. And this is one of
those fun LA moments that we took advance, and so
we did. And I remember walking in and seeing people
in costumes and it was just fun and music was
blasting and people were drinking, and it was just very
exciting and very fun. It was highly exclusive. We didn't
(06:14):
even think we would try.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It was that.
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Exclusive, and when we were invited and escorted in, I
just remember it being and I didn't expect it to
be fancy. It was actually gritty, and I loved that.
It was like music was blaring, and everybody kind of
seemed to know each other, and it was very from
today's standards now that I'm in the industry. It was
(06:39):
very Hollywood, if you will. Everybody kind of knew each other.
Everybody was talking with each other, and I felt comfortable, strangely,
even though I didn't know anyone in the room and
I was young. Almost everybody in that room was highly,
highly intoxicated. It was a bar, and it was a
very fun party. It was a Halloween party.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Did it surprise you at all what you saw?
Speaker 7 (07:01):
Yeah, it surprised me. Of course. You see somebody in
all these movies that you love, and you picture them
differently than sitting on a couch. But it was obviously him.
We were all excited to see him, but he looked tired,
and we just assumed that, like everyone else in that room,
he had had a few too many drinks. The Viper
Room was that cool place that all the celebrities hung out,
(07:24):
and it was private, And to your point, we weren't
running around with phones taking pictures of each other and
posting it on social media at the time.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So how'd you find out the next day that he
had passed to what?
Speaker 6 (07:36):
I think?
Speaker 7 (07:36):
I remember hearing about it on the news. I actually
remember my parents talking about it. River Phoenix was an
incredible actor. So even though all of us young women
were in love with him, he spanned all generations and
people admired him for being a tremendous actor. And I
remember my parents talking about it. I was horrified. My
(07:58):
girlfriends and I called each other and it was just very,
very sad.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, had such a career ahead of him.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
Yeah, he was tremendous.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
A Variety report published on November eighth, nineteen ninety three
reads as follows. Though it's been said that Fever Phoenix's
band was going to play at the Viper Room in
West Hollywood when he died early Sunday morning, they didn't.
It's more likely he was there to see the band
that did, called p The combo consisted of Flea of
(08:31):
the Red Hot Chili Peppers frontman Gibby Haynes of the
Butthole Surfers on vocals, Tom Petty keyboardist benmont Tench on organ,
actor and Viper Room employee Sal Jenko on drums, and
the unlikely guitar duo of Al Jorgenson Ministry and producer
of Nirvana's latest effort in Uterow, the Actor club owner
(08:55):
Johnny Depp. Perhaps the eerious moment of the evening came
during this second song, when Haines's impromptu vocals turned into
a meandering ramble about RIM's Michael Stite and River Phoenix.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Please there again? Gun down over, Okay, what's the other's
lab at the Viper Road.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Variety reported at the time that River was leaving the
Viper Room at about one am when he fell to
the ground, adding that friends reported that the actor had
been acting strange. He was rushed to Cedar Sinai Medical Center,
where he was pronounced dead at one fifty one am
on November fifteenth. The Los Angeles County Coroner's Office confirmed
(09:45):
to Variety that River had died of a drug overdose.
Toxicology tests later showed lethal levels of morphine heroin and cocaine.
Traces of marijuana, vallium, and over the counter cold medication
were also found. His death was ruled accidental. The actor's
passing sent shockwaves through Hollywood and beyond. The News of
(10:07):
his passing reached the front page of Variety, which called
him quote one of the most versatile and prominent of
contemporary young actors end quote. Variety's executive editor Brent Lang
recalls the response from the Hollywood community in the weeks
following the actor's death.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Well, I think in a lot of ways, his death,
because it was so shocking, is analogous to what happened
with John Belushi, where you had this kind of blazing
talent that their flame was sort of extinguished at such
a young age. The impact was really seismic, and it
was a wake up call too. I think for people
(10:44):
that if you played around in a certain kind of
pool with a lot of very very dangerous drugs, this
was something that could end up happening to you. He
was both an inspiration for a lot of people in
the way that he acted on SCO and his kind
of magnetism, his natural sort of innate charisma. But he
(11:06):
was also a cautionary tale about the perils and the
price of fame, and if you look at a kind
of how people responded in real time, it was I
think there was sort of a generational shift there that
happened after. I don't have evidence of this, but I
would I would assume that a lot of people who
were sort of moving in the path of doing really,
(11:27):
really dangerous drugs might have reconsidered that after what happened
to him.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
River's longtime friend Matthew Ebert still remembers getting the call.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
I got a call from a fellow actor in my
own private Idaho. He was in tears. It's like, what's
going on? Ever died? Totally?
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Remember it? You don't.
Speaker 7 (11:57):
You don't forget something like that.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
I felt. I felt a shame that I hadn't worked
harder to get him out.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
The outpouring of grief highlighted the profound impact he had
on those who knew him off camera and those who
admired his on camera work.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
From Afar, he was definitely an environmentalist. He came from
sort of a hippie family. He was a vegan before
people really knew what vegans were, and I think that
was also sort of shocking to people because he seemed
to have this kind of clean living persona. And I
know that people in the industry knew that he was
having drug issues, but the general public was shocked to
(12:38):
discover that that was something he was grappling with at
the time because of his kind of persona.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Matthew Ebert recalls taking Rivers ashes to the Phoenix family.
During that trip, Matthew remembers feeling angry with Rivers team
and those around him who could have prevented River's death somehow.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
After he died, I went to mickin Opie, where the
family is. I spent six weeks there. I brought his
ashes home to his mother. Never forget that, as long
as I live. I went with his sister and brought
him home and she cradled that like a baby. That
earned Never forget that, as long as I live, or
(13:22):
what it was like to hear he was dead and
he's gone on like just gone.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Like that.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
It's so fast.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Never ever saw somebody move so quickly from playful drug
use to death. And it's because you have all this money,
you have all this power, you have a huge machine
in the studio. Nobody's saying shit like you know, that's
an agent's job. That's really like your your manager and
your agent's job is to watch out for your health
(13:55):
and your and your welfare. That there's no other place
to put that. Your agent, your manager, your team, the
people around you, they're responsible when that happens. That's your
job to protect that person when the pressures and everything
from the outside are killing them. You know, that is
(14:17):
why I was so upset with the team, because it
was so obvious, it was so self evident. All you
had to do was go sit in the rushes. You'd
see a completely different person on that screen than you
did three years ago. There was all this stuff and
all these pressures. You take all these different rays of
light and you put it on the you shine a
(14:38):
light on it. You realize there was all these different
things working to make this perfect storm. There were all
these different pressures, not only from the drugs and the
people in the community and the study and your friends
then as now, if you're a celebrity, somebody's going to
throw you a bag. Somebody's going to do you know,
people want its currency. Back then, it was the currency
(15:00):
of cool. You know, you could go you know, I
could take them to see a band or there was
just it was everywhere, the night of the viper room.
Everywhere you want something, here it is and nobody's filtering
it and saying, you know, back then we didn't have fentanyl,
but certainly you could mix cocaine and heroin in a
bag and kill somebody like that and no one. It
(15:23):
went so fast.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Nearly a week after River's death, Variety reported that simultaneous
funeral services were held for River. His family hosted one
in their home in Gainesville, Florida, while another private service
was held in La organized by Rivers A Night in
the Life of Jimmy Rearden co star Ione Sky Matthew,
can you describe the funerals? How well attended were they?
Speaker 6 (15:48):
They went to La and went to a few one
or two services there. Remember like all the young actors
were there, like Ethan Hawk I think was there, and
a bunch of mother and I spoke a little bit there.
There were a lot of people there at the farm
at the compound, and I wouldn't say there was kind
(16:09):
of a There was definitely like a service and all that,
but there wasn't like very non traditional outdoor and my
time there, I remember trying to take care of his father,
who was really in bad shape. And I would attend
(16:30):
to his father, it soak his feet, put him to bed.
His father was really in bad shape. The whole family
was in bad shape. I stayed six weeks and you
(16:52):
cry every day, you know, you're just like, oh God,
you know, they're like, what are we going to do?
I don't really remember.
Speaker 7 (17:00):
I remember the.
Speaker 6 (17:01):
Vibe around everybody by the water, but I think it
was just too emotional to have to really lock in
on any of it, Like it all just seemed like
a nightmare, a weird dream. To say that he was,
you know, it just seemed so corny to say all
the stupid shit people say about him, But it's really true.
(17:24):
No one else was like him, nobody on that set,
nobody on that no one had what he had. River
was really at the peak what would have been the
peak of his power, and without those drugs, he'd still
be at the peak of his power.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
In nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix's death shocked Hollywood and
the world. Very rarely has his then girlfriend, Samantha Mathis
spoken about him. Samantha, who was with River when he died.
Details were memories, including co starring in The Thing called Love.
His last film was released, and I know you've talked
(18:02):
about it, but for many years you did not talk
about River. Correct, Correct? Like decades?
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Like two decades? All right?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, I mean I'm very protective of his memory and
his family and my memories. So I feel it's a
really delicate matter, and there's some things that I want
to keep for myself.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
I guess I'll start with heading into this thing called Love.
You did not know River before signing on. Correct?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
We had met, ever so briefly in a nightclub when
we were both nineteen. Obviously I was very aware of
who he was. He was really the one of the
greatest actors of our generation. But no, we didn't know
each other when I signed onto the movie.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Okay, so heading into the film, what were your expectations
and how did they ultimately turn out to be different
than what you were expecting.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I don't know. It's hard to speak to what my
expectations were in nineteen ninety three, when I was nineteen
ninety two, when I was twenty two years old. I mean,
I had seen most of his work and found him
to be extremely compelling and iconic and really inspiring and
(19:22):
quite frankly, though I knew who Peter Bogdanovitch was, it
was really River that compelled me to say yes to
the movie.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
What were your first impressions when you did meet River
face to face?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I mean, he was dazzling. He was just dazzling. He
had that spirit. He was feisty and smart and quick
and present. He was such a present person and a
bit of mischievousness to his personality, with a kind soul
(20:00):
and a true artist. He was a true artist. He
was very impressive.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
People often describe him and other actors that they're very
generous with how they allow you to as the co star,
to have your breath and space in the scene. Was
that kind of how it worked in terms of how
you played opposite one another and off of one another.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Obviously, we're talking about nineteen ninety two, so it's in
some ways really hard for me to speak with definitively
about what my experience was shooting that movie with him.
What I do remember clearly is that he was incapable
of being dishonest in his work, and that challenged me
(20:49):
in a way that I found really exciting and also terrifying.
I was not a confident performer at that age and
not as into une with my instrument as he was.
And it made me, I hope, a better actor because
he challenged me to be really present in the moment
and to be spontaneous and to really react to what
(21:14):
was happening. And I think that at that point I
was less confident to be able to act in that
way and more someone who plotted out what I was
going to do, you know, And so he was exciting
and generous, and it also felt a little dangerous in
a really vital way that makes something pop on the screen.
(21:39):
And we obviously had great chemistry, so that was also
all there on camera. We were taken by each other
and enjoyed each other.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Do you remember where it was in production? Like midway
towards the beginning, towards the end, when you realize like
we're in law or I'm trying to love with this person.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
It's complicated. It's complicated. I can't say exactly when it happened,
but you know, unfortunately I was with someone else at
the time that it happened, and so it was messy.
But it was also something that was undeniable between the
two of us, you know, eventually we did end up together.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Okay, what was the most memorable scene looking back all
these years and what do you remember from it? Kind
of take me back to it.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I mean, there are many memories that I have that
are so fond. I don't know which one is the most.
There's a scene between River and I in the back
of the pickup truck where we're supposed to be sitting
outside of Graceland, and it's just such a charming scene
between the two of us, getting to really let the
scene breathe and be with each other and be under
(22:53):
the stars in a romantic moment, and to just be
with him and and have this sort of languid quality
and scene where we could really find our beats was
really exciting. But also this this whole cast was amazing, right,
I mean, we had dermotmulrooney, and we had a then
unknown Sandra Bullock, and there was an electric energy between
(23:17):
all of us on set together that was really exciting.
River thought that Sandy was a star. I remember him
saying that to me, She's going to be a big star.
I remember it so clearly, and he was right, he was, Yeah,
he could see it in her.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Yeah, and it took a while for her to get
that those roles that really could show her amazing range
as an actress.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
But well, I think that doing the thing called Love
gave her the film that helped to get her speed.
That was a moment in time where her life completely
completely changed. H yeah, and we could all see it.
I mean, she was also had this sort of shiny spirit,
(24:10):
this this undeniable spark of in her case, like a
great sense of humor and ability to just be fearless
and make a complete fool out of herself. She could
make fun of herself and had a sense of humor
about herself and was just adorable. She was just undeniably adorable.
(24:33):
So it was a very exciting thing to see her
ascent into tremendous, tremendous success.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Did River have a great sense of humor, because if so,
that would be kind of surprising. He always seemed like
very you know, very sensitive and like somewhat introverted. But
that would be interesting to know was he did he
have a good sense of humor?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Oh? He I mean he grew up in a big family.
I don't think you can grow up in a big
family with a lot of kids without having a sense
of humor about yourself, or a sense of playfulness at
least that was true of his family than incredibly loving
but also playful.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You know, he.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
As an actor and as a musician was incredibly playful,
and he had a yeah, he had a mischievous quality.
He was a very intelligent person and his mind was quick.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
So, Samantha, what ch of River's films would you point
young audiences and new generations of fans too, maybe people
who aren't familiar with his work.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Well, of course, my own Private Idaho was an extraordinary
performance and an extraordinary movie. So anyone who's interested in
seeing a really powerful, daring film with really bold work,
that I would highly highly suggest. Running on Empty was
(26:01):
something that left an indelible mark on my life. I
was eighteen and he was playing a young man in
a family that were activists who were on the run
for being involved in a political action where someone was killed.
He and Martha Plimpton played boyfriend girlfriend in that and
(26:24):
their chemistry was justugh, it was gorgeous. It was just
they were so alive together and beautiful together, and there
was a beauty to the dynamic that was created with
Christine Latti and jud Hirshs' parents and what that family
was like that as a child of a single parent,
(26:47):
I just wanted to be in that family, even though
they were on the run. But his journey as a
young man conflicted in that piece about to stay with
his family or to go off and make his own
life was just searingly painful and beautiful in his portrayal.
(27:08):
So those are two movies that really stand out to me.
I know he had a great connection with Harrison Ford
when he made Mosquito Coast. I know that they really
adored each other. Dan Akwerit was a friend of his
until the end and someone he adored just loved so much.
He worked with a lot of iconic people, for sure.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
His pace of working was actually kind of intense, and
there was a sort of, you know, like most people would,
I guess, take a longer period of time in between movies.
Do you think there's any accurate from your perspective.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I mean, I only knew him for the year year
and a half that I did, so I can't speak
to the length of his career and what speed he
was working. He was very passionate about the work and
was obviously in great demand. He had been meeting with
Nashka Holland about doing a movie together right after we finished.
(28:12):
There were many things that were of interest to him.
But after we wrapped the thing called Left, we spent
a month together on vacation, so it wasn't like he
wasn't capable of doing that. And he also spent a
great deal of time with his family, who obviously was
very important to him. Down in Florida. He had certainly
(28:33):
been working at quite a pace, and he started working
at a very young age, and we had definitely had
conversations about taking a pause and our mutual interest in
perhaps going to college.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Ill to see River's legacy as an actor and how
he maybe influenced the generation that came after him.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Well, he was undeniably one of the most talented, if
not the most talented young man of his generation. I
think he challenged all of us to be a better
actor and to be a better human because he was
also an activist who was quite outspoken about the environment.
He was so ahead of his time. I'm sure that
(29:18):
he was and continues to be a tremendous inspiration to
his brother, who I find to have startlingly talent, you know,
so equally present and daring and alive in his work.
And for those of us who knew him then and
(29:40):
worked with him or experienced just viewing him on screen,
he was dazzling in his talent. So I do think
that there are people of the generation coming up today
that are becoming aware of him because there is this
fascination with all things of the nineties, and he was
(30:01):
certainly emblematic of a lot in the nineties, even though
he passed away relatively soon into the nineties.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
The nineties were a very unique period and just like
even in America, like we were out of the eighties,
where it was like very you know, greed is good,
like the Reagan era, and like wasn't the seventies either,
which was like very gritty. How would you describe sort
of the landscape of Hollywood in the early nineties.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I feel like in some ways it was a very
fertile time. Independent cinema had really started to explode in
the late eighties, and I see the real exciting work
happening in the nineties. I feel like it was in
a way, the last Garrah of Hollywood before things became
(30:56):
so corporate, before boards of directors were deciding strictly about
shareholders stock options, where people were still invested in cinema,
in really making movies and being artists. We were really
the last generation that remembers life for cell phones, and
there was just an innocence to that, and a purity
(31:17):
to that, and a freedom to that that led to
great work and just a freedom, a freedom to be young, certainly,
and to be creative and to not just be held
under a lens. I feel so much for young actors
(31:39):
today and what's required and expected of them to be
a brand. There was no discussion of brand. You were
an artist. We wanted to be DeNiro, We wanted to
be Paccino, We wanted to be Meryl Street, Jessica Lang
and Ellen Burston, and we wanted to be great artists.
(31:59):
That's what we wanted to be. There was no discussion
of a brand. I do remember towards the end of
the nineties things starting to shift. There was a magazine
that came along called Maxim and suddenly my representation was like,
you should really do this, and I was like, would
Meryl Streep do this? Would should be on the cover
of a magazine and a bikini. I'm not doing that.
(32:21):
That has nothing to do with what I'm interested in
doing and becoming. Yeah, things changed in the nineties, but
there was an innocence to the beginning of the nineties
pre cell phone that I'm so grateful I experienced and
that I remember and no can exist.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Do you see sort of similarities with Johnny Depp's career also,
like I mean, Johnny Depp's another one where he loved
music and some loves music in some ways that sort
of like performing. And then they do seem to have
similarities as careers, I suppose.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I mean, Johnny's obviously gone on to have a thirty
more years of a career than River unfortunately had. You know,
I think that as an artist and as a creative being,
it's really important to have outlets that you are not monetizing,
that are not there for anyone to co opt or
(33:21):
monetize or make something out of or profit from, but
to have it be your own and be pure and
true to it. My impression of Johnny is that he
does it because he loves it. He's ultimately you know,
he doesn't need it to survive, and he's not really
interested in anyone's opinion. Nor was River. He had a
really unique style as a musician and was something he
(33:48):
could lose time doing, being in the studio with his
with his sister and with his friends, writing music and exploring.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Was he friends with Johnny at the time. No, who
were other than his family some of his closest friends
in the industry? Or were they all outside of the industry.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
He really didn't have a lot of actor friends. No,
he had some. I mean, Dermott was a friend of his.
They had worked on a movie together years before, so
they were kind of like brothers. They were quite close.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
What do you think is the greatest legacy of River
as an actor?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
River was one of those actors who was incapable of
being dishonest. He really was so riveting because he was
so alive on camera. He demanded that of himself, he
demanded that of other people in scenes with him. He
was startlingly present. And that kind of courage and confidence
(34:54):
just eats up the screen. It eats it makes the
film come to life. It was undeniable.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Where do you think River's career would have gone? Would
he have stayed more comfortable in the like indie sphere.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
It's interesting to muse upon and it's impossible to say right.
I mean, he was also a really passionate musician, and
music meant the world to him, and he loved the
work of acting and hated the machine around what was
expected of you as an actor. That was not interesting
(35:33):
to him. So it's hard to say if he would
have continued and become an even bigger movie star, if
that would have been of interest to him. You know,
there was an anonymity and an ability to be more
abstract as an artist in his music, and of course
environmental work was very, very important to him, so I
(35:57):
know that would have been a huge part of his journey.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Tell me a little bit about his animal activism because
it's such a big part.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I mean I was a
meat eater when we started dating, and that horrified him
to no end. I remember driving in Beverly Hills. I
don't know where we were going or where we were
coming from what There were people on a street corner
protesting for animal rights. And he pulled over and pulled
(36:27):
all these pamphlets and stuck them in my face and
just said, just look at this, look at this. I
was like, oh God, okay, okay, okay, I hear you.
I hear you, and I ended up being vegan for
several years after that. I mean he changed me. I
can't say that I stuck with it, unfortunately, but he
(36:48):
did have that effect on me for several years afterwards.
He was incredibly sensitive to the suffering of others, including animals.
Including animals. Yeah, I hope that his legacy as a
human being overall is one of having been a tremendous
artist and activist who deeply cared about the world and
(37:13):
was a sensitive young man who left a mark forever
in Hollywood and left a mark forever on gen X.
I think he was an iconic person for our generation,
just like my parents talk about they knew where they
(37:33):
were when John F. Kennedy was killed. Pretty much everyone
I know knows exactly where they were when River died,
and what a loss of hope that was for our generation.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
But he.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Leaves behind an incredible body of work that I hope
is a real inspiration for the generations to come.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
River Phoenix's story is one of brilliance and tragedy, and
both his life and work illuminated the beauty and the
darkness of the human experience. In our next episode, we
discussed River Phoenix's lasting impact on those who knew him best,
and how his untimely death reshaped the conversation around addiction.
(38:23):
We'll also examine the tragedy of a Hollywood life taken
too soon. River was one of Hollywood's brightest young stars
whose final act was hampered by fame and drug addiction.
Subscribe to Variety Confidential the Life and Legend of River Phoenix,
and leave us a review to share your thoughts. Join
(38:43):
us next time as we continue to honor the legacy
of a remarkable talent. Variety Confidential is hosted by Tatiana
Siegel and produced by Karen Mizugucci and Sidney Kramer. Written
by Anna Mosluin, Karen Mizugucci and Tatiana Siegel, Executive produced
by Dea Lawrence, Variety's co editor in chief Cynthia Littleton,
(39:06):
and Ramins A two day edited and mixed by Aaron
Greenawald Variety Content Studio Executive producer Alex Hughes. Please refer
to sources and citations on Variety dot com. Attatatatatatatatatatatas
Host
Tatiana Siegel
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