April 18, 2025 • 33 mins
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Syndicated Radio Show: Senator Ted Cruz is the first sitting member of Congress to have a syndicated radio show, expanding the reach of the "Verdict" podcast to 84 stations across the country.
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Guest Appearance: The episode features Lee Zeldin, the Administrator of the EPA, who discusses his background, including his military service and time in Congress.
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Visit to Midland, Texas: The hosts and Zeldin visit Midland, Texas, a hub for the shale revolution and energy production. They tour an oil rig and discuss the economic benefits for local residents, including royalty checks from drilling.
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EPA's Role and Actions: Zeldin talks about his efforts to reduce waste within the EPA, including canceling $22 billion worth of grants. He highlights the importance of the EPA in regulating industries and ensuring environmental protection without stifling economic growth.
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Environmental and Economic Policies: The discussion covers the balance between environmental regulations and economic development. Zeldin emphasizes the need for common sense in regulation and the importance of firsthand experience in understanding the industries being regulated.
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Political Commentary: The conversation includes critiques of Democratic policies, particularly in New York, and the impact of these policies on energy production and economic growth.
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Cabinet Dynamics: Zeldin shares insights into working in President Trump's cabinet, describing it as a collaborative environment where members can openly share their opinions.
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Specific Initiatives: The episode touches on various initiatives, including permitting reform, energy dominance, and addressing environmental issues like the California wildfires and sewage contamination from Tijuana.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good Friday morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
It is Verdict with Center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with
you and we get to give you some really exciting news.
You're making history, Centator, as from what I know, you
are the first sitting member of Congress to ever have
a syndicated radio show. So everyone listening to this podcast
in a lot of markets, you're gonna be able to
(00:23):
hear Verdict on the radio as you're driving around town
on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Well, that's exactly right, and it's a big damn deal,
the Verdict Podcast. Thanks to our incredible listeners, we have
about a million unique listeners that listen regularly to this show.
We beat CNN every single week and as of this weekend,
we will be on air starting in eighty four stations
all over the country on syndicated radio, playing on Saturday
(00:50):
and Sunday. Our Friday podcast will air either Saturday or
Sunday on radio. That number, I hope and expect will grow.
But it's another chance to really communicate with people across
this country and to bring them behind the scenes, to
let them know what's going on, what's happening. And today
we've got a special guest on the podcast, Ben, You
and I are in Midland, Texas. Midland is an extraordinary town.
(01:14):
Midland is the I believe, the most entrepreneurial city on
the face of the planet. It is driving the shale revolution.
It is driving energy production in Texas and America. And
we're here with a special guest. We're here with the
Administrator of the EPA, Lee Zeldon. Now, Lee is a
good friend. I'm going to introduce him to you momentarily.
(01:37):
Lee is a veteran. He spent twenty two years in
active duty in the reserves. He was a member of
Congress for eight years from the great state of New York.
I'll tell you I actually went and campaigned with Lee
when he first ran. I went to Long Island and
campaigned alongside him. He is smart, he is principled, He
is a fighter. Lee was almost the governor of New York.
(02:00):
Lee should have been the governor of New York. It
would have been much better for the entire state of
New York if Lee had been the governor of New York.
But tragically New Yorkers decided they wanted more crime and
less jobs and more insanity, and so they voted to
re elect Democrats, and I will say the loss to
the great State of New York ended up being a
win to the United States of America because if Lee
(02:22):
were Governor of New York, he would not have been
able to say yes to the job he's in now,
which is administrator of the EPA. The EPA has a
massive impact on our lives, on our health and safety,
but also on the economy. And I'll tell you what, lee'
selden is the very first administrator of the EPA in
history to come to the Permian Basin, to come to
(02:43):
the middle of Odessa. He came because I invited him
to come. Lee. Welcome, Welcome to Verdict Center Cruz.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's great to be with you on the ground in Texas.
You feel the freedom here. I mean he's leaving the airport,
I'm thinking of all that budget surplus government being well run.
A whole lot of New Yorkers have come down in Texas.
They're not looking back. A whole lot of people fleeing
these blue states and they're heading to these freedom loving
states because they feel like their money is going to
(03:10):
go further, They'll feel safer, they'll live life freer. Center Cruise.
You've been at the tip of the spear here in Texas,
and it's been an awesome day. When I end up
heading back to DC, as you well know, I'm going
to be heading back with some oil stains here on
the boots, my own little souvenir that you provided to me,
and the staffers who enjoyed the trip to the rig
(03:31):
and speaking a whole bunch of great yep.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Now, what's so cool about you inviting him down here
is you guys went to an oil rig basically like
in the city. You're on it, you're seeing what's actually happening,
and it's shocking that no one in the EPA role
that you're in has ever done this before.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, it was fantastic. So we started the day. We
went to a rig that is drilling right now and
they're drilling sixty wells and it's in Midland. It's in
the city, it's not too far from downtown Midland and
they lt baffles around the rig so it doesn't make
much sound. It's not disturbing people. And what they're doing,
they're drilling down. They're going horizontal, and they're going horizontal
(04:11):
under people's homes, under people's businesses. Now, this is a
bonanza for the people in Midland. Why because in Texas, look,
you own your mineral rights. You own the rights to
everything from the surface all the way down to the
core of planet Earth. And that means literally, as they
drill a two and a half mile long horizontal well,
(04:32):
and they're drilling sixty of these, and if they go
under your home, Ben, you know what you get. You
get a check every month, a royalty check. They've literally
got ten thousand people. They might just be sitting in
an ordinary three bedroom home with their kids playing out back,
and they get every week mailbox money of money coming
in because a mile or two miles down this well
(04:56):
is producing oil and producing natural gas. And we saw
at all. It was incredible and it was a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And the check ends up coming for many decades, like
forty years, and there was they said it was one
thousand workers involved in this project. I mean that benefits economically,
the work that they do to protect the environment. I
mean the innovation that they tap into, the way that
they are able to do things better for the economy
(05:26):
and the environment that so many other countries around the
rest of the world. The EPA administrator, Ben should be
seeing this stuff firsthand. Every administrator. If you're gonna have
a concern enough to regulate these types of industries, you
should make sure that you get your facts straight, that
you're talking to people on the ground, and that you're
applying common sense. And I think that I'm gonna be
(05:48):
able to do a better job going forward. And we've
we've hit the ground run and we're almost done here
with the first one hundred days of President Trump's administration.
We have a good team around us and there's a
lot to work are proud of. I feel like today's
visit will only make our team stronger.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Well, you know, one of the striking things ben as
Leah and I were touring the rig as he was
looking around and we were hearing about ten thousand Midlanders
who were getting checks in the mail every month. And
I got to say, it was interesting watching Lee's perspective
as someone who represented New York for eight years in
Congress and who ran for governor. And look, there's a
(06:25):
significant portion of New York State that has massive natural
gas resources. The Marcella Shale extends underneath Pennsylvania and New York.
And in Pennsylvania, just like here in West Texas, there
are people making enormous amount of moneys, ordinary families, school teachers,
and cops who are getting mailbox money every month because
(06:48):
of the resources being extracted from their property. And I
got to say, I think Lee was struck that he's
visited with those New Yorkers who have that natural gas
under their property and yet idiot politicians in New York
won't let them develop it. And it was striking watching
Lee making that option.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And they're desperate to tap into it. And in New
York they've banned the extraction of natural gas, they won't
improve new pipelines, they're banning gas look ups to new construction,
they're trying to move the state residents off of gas
power vehicles all together. And that list goes on. And
those people who have all this resource under their property,
(07:26):
and they see over the border in the Pennsylvania where
they are tapping into it.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
They're striving callacts and they're.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Driving Cadillacs on the New York side. They're not bad
policy in New York, good policy in Texas.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier,
and this has been a lot of the headlines that
you have been in is about you uncovering just an
incredible amount of waste within your agency, and you guys
are really going after that. Tell us a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
EPA's annual budget is about ten billion dollars. So far,
I've canceled twenty two billion dollars worth of grants. And
how is that possible? One might ask. Well, in twenty
twenty four, the amount that EPA obligated and spent was
over sixty billion dollars. A lot of money came through
(08:13):
the Inflation Reduction Act when Democrats were in charge of Congress,
and a lot of that money went through EPA. They
created these green slush funds and in one case, twenty
billion dollars which they couldn't get out on their own
fast enough. They ended up parking at an outside bank.
Towards the end of the Biden administration to give through
eight pass through NGOs, many of them were brand new.
(08:35):
One is that Stacy Abrams linked ngo that received two
billion even though they only received one hundred dollars in
twenty twenty three, and because of self dealing.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Wait, hold on a second, they went from one hundred
dollars to two billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
How crazy is that? And then on page seven of
their grant agreement, the Biden EPA gives them ninety days
to complete a training called how to develop a budget. Now,
if you feel like this.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You know, with two billion dollars, you don't need much
of a budget. Just spend on whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Oh, I'll add another dynamic to it. On page one
of the grant agreement, they have twenty one days to
start spending the money. So from day zero, they have
twenty one days to start spending money. They had ninety
days to complete a training called how to develop a budget.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Look, this is insane, and you described what you found
as essentially twenty billion dollars in gold bars that were
being thrown off the Titanic that the Biden administration they realized,
Oh no, Trump is coming in, Let's just throw this
all out the window. I mean, is that what you found.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That's exactly what happened and what alerted Senate Republicans like
Senator Cruz. This was something that Senator Cruz and I
spoke about back in December when we met before my
confirmation hearing. There was this video that came out of
a Biden EPA political appointee, a Biden EPA political appointee,
talking about how they were tossing gold bars off the Titanic,
(10:03):
rushing and get billions of dollars out the door before inauguration.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
This was a Biden phrase that was it was.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
The Biden EPA political appointee.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I thought that they called it that. You gotta be kidding.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
That, yes, And they were doing it with an eye
towards getting themselves jobs at the recipient NGOs. So this
was US fulfilling a commitment to figure out we'll go
find the gold bars, a commitment to bring those gold
bars back into the treasury on behalf of the American taxpayer.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
But by the way, Lee, I will say, the the
last Democrat I'm aware of who was intimately involved with
gold bars was was your former neighboring colleague Bob Menendez,
who was sticking gold bars in his pockets and down
his pants. And and I will say Bob is currently
a resident of government housing.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well there are I'll talk about resident of government and
feeding off the taxpayer and abusing tax dollars. This whole
scheme is riddled with self dealing and conflicts of interest,
unqualified recipients, and a lack of EPA oversight. Deliberately reducing
EPA oversight twenty billion dollars. That's a lot of money.
(11:15):
And when that goes through those first eight passed irentities,
a lot of that money goes through more passed through entities.
And we found with one program that there was money
that by the time it was getting to the ultimate recipient,
it was going through four middlemen. And each of these
middlemen are getting their own fee for being middlemen. And
(11:35):
now when I had one other thing, we've heard so
much about that. We've heard the term climate change, we've
heard the term environmental justice. And you could build support
for your term by the way that you define it,
the way you argue and advocate for it. For example,
one might say, so if.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
You call it gold bars off the Titanic, that's not
the best messaging.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Amen. If you say that that we need to combat
environmental justice because there's a c community, there are communities
that are left behind and they need help, a lot
of Americans be like, Okay, they're communities that are left behind,
they need help. What do we need to do? But
here's the problem. In the name of environmental justice, they
will give money to their left wing activist friends instead
(12:16):
of actually remediating environmental issues. So one of the grants
I canceled was a fifty million dollar grant to a
group called Climate Justice Alliance. They say that climate justice
runs through a free Palestine. I say, God bless that
if you are gonna give, if you're gonna spend fifty
million dollars in the name of environmental justice, that money
(12:37):
should go towards actually remediating an environmental issue in the
name of climate change. They're willing to spend trillions of
dollars bankrupting this country, and we as Americans need to
get smartest to what the left has been up.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Let me say something on this, which is you're really
underscoring a very important point that when core up Democrats
waste billions of dollars, they're doing multiple things. One, they're
paying off their buddies and engaging in political corruptions. So
the two billion dollars that was given to Stacy Abrams
and her group was to buy new appliances for Georgians. Now,
(13:15):
mind you, Stacy Abrams ran for governor of Georgia. She
claimed she was the original election denier. She claims she won,
never mind the fact that she didn't. But the Democrats
are giving her two billion dollars because it turns out
if you give someone a brand new dishwasher, maybe maybe
they'll vote for you next time. It's just buying votes.
That's one consequence of it. But another consequence of it
(13:38):
is that's two billion dollars that's not being spent to
clean up a super fun site. That's two billion dollars
that's not being spent if you have a toxic waste dump. Look,
the EPA has really important missions. Every one of us
wants clean air and clean water because we all breathe
and we all drink water. And if you're wasting twenty
two billion dollars in cronium and corruption, that's to twenty
(14:02):
two billion dollars that are not going to clean up
the environment and make our kids safer. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
One hundred percent right? And we're not here saying we
want to take money from a left wing activist organization
and give it to a right wing activist organization. We're
talking about the money belongs to the taxpayers, and if
you're going to spend the money on protecting the environment,
it needs to go directly towards remediating in environmental issue
period I don't want to spend a dollar more than
(14:30):
what we need. And by the way, when some people call,
someone comes to me and they say I have an
idea on how to save five thousand dollars, that's a
lot of money to me. Let's save five thousand dollars.
Let's save five million dollars. We save five billion dollars.
And what's so frustrating is that there are people when
you say I have an idea to save a billion dollars,
the responses, well, that's only point zero zero three percent
(14:53):
of some larger pot of money. So you know who gives, well,
I give, and whether it's a B and M, we're
talking about one thousand dollars, whatever it is. When you're
steward of tax dollars, you need to treat it as
if it's your own money. You need to treat it
with even more care and concern. And unfortunately, there are
too many people in government who love wasting money and
they're paying it off to the friends. In this case,
(15:14):
we're talking about former Biden and Obama appointed administration officials,
former Democratic donors. These are people who they are close
with because of that alliance, not because of the qualifications
Stacy Abrams, and that NGO doesn't get the money because
Stacy Abrams is so experienced in handling billions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
You were talking about how it's pretty clear that the
Democratic Party decided they were going to take the APA,
radicalize it, use it for their own personal gain and
their friends and their climate religion and the Great New Deal.
The list goes on and on. Can we take a
step back and explain to everyone listening around the country,
what is the original goal of the EPA, why was
(15:58):
it created? What is your goal? So they understand just
how far off the beaten path we've gotten.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The core mission of EPA is protecting human health in
the environment, and what conservatives, moderates, liberals, Republicans, Democrats, independents,
what Americans, almost all universally, should be agreeing on, is
that we should ensure clean air, land, and water for
all Americans. That's a goal that we often talk about.
And protecting the environment is something that conservatives care deeply about.
(16:27):
We believe that we can both protect the environment and
grow the economy. This isn't a binary choice. But what
was happening under the Biden EPA was that they were
strangulating the economy, and they were passing these regulations that
were costing trillions of dollars and they were designed to
put entire industries out of business. And Americans spoke up
(16:49):
last November. They say that they want a stronger economy,
they want more energy, they want more jobs. And President
Trump heard that loud and clear. The campaigned on a
lot of this, and that's why there's a National Energy
Dominance Council, there's a national energy emergency, and that's why
EPA is doing its part. We announced on March twelfth,
the largest deregulatory action in the history of the country.
(17:12):
We want to fix this instantly. We're not looking to
pace ourselves. I'm not saying, hey, stay tuned in twenty
twenty eight. The solution is going to finally be here.
Take my word for it. I'm saying right now, we
are actively walking into you and com at the same
time on all fronts. We're firing on all cylinders. We
will fix everything. That's our commitment.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You know. Historically, the EPA, I think, has been the
most dangerous and destructive regulator in the entire country, and
it is under radical Democrats, promulgated rules designed to destroy jobs,
to destroy entire industries. And it reminds me of a
joke that I have to bet I've told on the
campaign trail many times, which is what's the difference between
(17:53):
regulators and locusts. And the answer is, you can't use
pesticide on the regulators. And one time, actually out here
in West Texas, an old farmer leaned forward and said,
want to bet. So I'll just tell you when you
come in and say I'm the regulator. West Texas is
a different place. But I'll tell you why. I'm so
(18:15):
thrilled that Lee is doing this because he brings intelligence
and common sense and an understanding that we can't protect
the environment, keep our air and water clean. But that
doesn't mean being a crazy zealot trying to shut down
every job you can in America. And that's what under
(18:36):
Obama and Biden that they did. And so I want
to ask and look, and there's a consistent theme across
President Trump's cabinet of a bringing back, a resurgence of
common sense, bringing back a dedication to jobs, bringing back
a dedication to blue collar workers. So I want to ask.
One of the things we do on Verdict, we try
(18:58):
to bring people behind the scenes. And and so you're
a member of President Trump's cabinet, let me just ask you,
what's it like to be in Donald Trump's cabinet? Like,
bring our listeners in what does it? What does it mean?
Tell tell us about the first cabinet meeting you go to.
What's it like?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Now? I always thought that there was pretty much two
choices for a cabinet. That a president can have a
cabinet where everyone gets along and maybe they're all yes men.
They don't have the relationship with the president where they
can push back. It's just everyone just tells the president
what they want to hear. And then option two is
this team of rivals approach, where maybe people don't get
(19:35):
along with each other, there's some conflict, and from that
conflict and debate, maybe you end up with a with
a better cabinet, a member you know from the Abe
Lincoln Team of Rivals, A great book worth reading if
anyone out there hasn't read it yet, President Trump has
tried something different. I really think this this is the
model of how to do it. He has a cabinet
(19:55):
where everyone gets along with each other, there's great chemistry,
and we all have the relationship with President Trump where
we could tell him where we disagree on any topic.
We all have that relationship with him where we are
able to share our candid thoughts, our candidate recommendations. And
I think this cabinet stronger for it. I think that
(20:16):
the President and this administration his country is stronger for it.
Inside those cabinet meetings like we just had one last week.
It was a low over three hours long. It was
so positive and it was so substantive, and we're all
talking about what we are working on in our own agency.
In many cases, it's working with other agencies and the partnerships.
I'm a member of the National Energy Dominance Council, I'm
(20:38):
a member of the Make America Healthy Again Commission with
Secretary Kennedy, and cooperation between agencies ends up allowing us
to accomplish so many other goals. Like Senator Cruz has
been fighting for permitting reform, well, one of the best
ways to achieve permitting reform is to have agencies working
on this stuff at the same time, rather than having
(21:00):
to go through twelve months in one agency and then
you go to some other agency and they're guming up
the works and the person who's applying for the purpose, like, hey,
why don't you just tell us that year ago, Well,
we want to make sure that we are doing things
efficiently in a way that we were all making the
American public proud. It's a new way to be a
cabin to have a cabinet. I think this is the
way presidents should do it going forward.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
You know, I read something last week that was amazing,
which is Donald Trump, in three months of his second term,
has already answered more press questions at cabinet meetings than
Joe Biden did in four years as president. Although it
be fair Biden may have been answering questions of voices
he was hearing in his head. So I don't know
about that. All right, let me ask another question, which
(21:43):
is how did you find out you were gonna be
epa administrator? Tell us what it's like. So you're sitting
there minding your own business, like, how did this appointment
come about?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So it was a call on a Sunday morning right
after the election. I spoke to the President a few
times during that week after the election, and the Resident
was thinking through some different options. I didn't know what
he was going to ask me to do. Was clear
that he wanted me to come join the team. Sunday morning.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Though.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
He calls me up and he is locked in. He
is decisive, he is motivated. He had this vision of
exactly what we can be accomplishing at EPA, and his
motivation motivated me. I said, if you love this idea,
and I mean, I am all in. I was like, actually,
what I said was if you like it, I love it,
and then the rest is history. And one of the
(22:31):
cool things about contacting me on November eleventh, when you
still have two and a half months before a confirmation,
is that is a runway to get fully staffed up,
to fully prepare for how to hit the ground running
once we got there. So the President when he called
me up, he had like fifteen specific ideas he wanted
(22:52):
us to We're just talking about permitting reform. He's talking
about making America the AI capital the world. He wants
to bring back American auto jobs. He wants to unleash dominance,
and he had a lot of specific ideas on how
to do it. Now, I don't know what that conversation
was like eight years earlier when he was calling his
then nominee to be EPA administrator, But I will tell
(23:12):
you when he called me up, he was deeply knowledgeable
on everything that we needed to do to do a
great job.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Let me ask you another question. For some of you
who are listening, they hear the EPA, one of the
things that you're trying to do is deregulate and allow
for things to flourish that can have a huge impact
on every American's life. That can be at the gas pump,
that can be with natural gas, their house, that can
be with countless other things. Give a list of just
how important the EPA is and how much it touches
(23:40):
in average Americans life. They may not even realize.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
One is the EPA has tremendous power to gum up
the works on a lot. I mean, if you want
permitting reform before you even have to go through a
legislative process, EPA could speed up a whole lot of
permitting timelines by just getting out of the way. There
is incredible. Now, there's a whole bunch of landmark historic
(24:03):
laws that are on the books. Clean Air Act, Clean
Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, CIRCLA for super Funds,
Toxic Substances, Chemicals Act, Their Control Act. There's a lot
of laws around the books that have EPA doing different work.
It is important for us to ensure that we are
not overstepping these powers. And what we can do through
(24:25):
our deregulatory action amounts to what is the largest deregulatory
environment in the history of the country. There's never been
a year, there's never been a presidential administration or a
year in the past where the entire federal government did
more deregulation than the EPA will do in twenty twenty five.
(24:47):
That's how much we could accomplish in such a short time.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
That's incredible. You told a story earlier today about the
EPA's involvement in cleaning up the California wildfires, and it's
a good example of how it impacts people's lives. Like
you wouldn't necessarily think the EPA is involved in dealing
with wildfires, but you guys are deeply involved.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
As soon as though the wildfires hit Los Angeles, over
thirteen thousand properties destroyed, President Trump comes into office. He
inherits it happened a few days before he got there.
He signs an executive order. He says, EPA, you have
thirty days to do your entire Phase one hazardous material
removal before Phase two starts, which is the Army Corps
(25:26):
of Engineers doing their debris removal.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
And like with the wildfires, you have people's homes that
burn to the ground. There's a lot of toxic sludge.
I mean, it's a mess. It's dangerous. Like fires produce
bad stuff, and you guys had to figure out how
to clean it up. But do it in thirty days.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, First the response was that's impossible. This is going
to take you until the summer at best. It's going
to take a few months for sure. The lithium ion
batteries were all over this particular area. We got it
done in less than thirty days after ramping up to
fifteen hundred workers. Proud of the effort from EPA. We
do a lot like this that the our public might
not know about. And that's why in just a couple
(26:02):
of days we're heading to the Tijuana area in southern California,
where a lot of Mexican ros sewage is entering for decades.
We need to end it.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Number one about you guys dealing with water issues and Tijuana.
And I also and there's another one that a lot
of Americans will remember and that was the trained derailment,
and it seemed like the government was picking winners and
losers with that clean up or lack thereof. You guys
have also gotten involved with that because what you did
in the wildfires in California is incredible. That's what every
(26:32):
Americans should get, no matter where they live, and politics
shouldn't come into it.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
This is something that really showed then, Junior Senator JD
Vance as someone who understands leadership in a time of crisis,
when disaster strikes, your instinct as a leader should be
to show up at that site and to be the
voice of the people. And what was wild was JD
was like the only one there. I think that might
(26:58):
be cong from Bill Johnson's district.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Well, to be fair, Donald Trump came to.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, well and it was JA and JD, not.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Joe Biden, not Pete boudhage Edge, but Donald Trump came
That's right.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I remember the conversations where JD was engaging with
President Trump to make sure that President Trump was there.
And this was all in the initial days and weeks
after disaster struck. Yes, and a lot of people were wondering, well,
where is this person, where is that person, Where is
this agency? Where's that agency it should be? This is
(27:31):
the ultimate gut check and an instinct check of it.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Was amazing because Biden, the Democrats, they really liked Palestinians.
You would think they would have gone, oh my.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Gosh, you know all right.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
For the record, Lezelden is officially speechless. He doesn't know
what to do with that smart ass comment.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I'll tell you it was a It was such a
missed opportunity to lead and that EPA. Over the course
of time, they ended up being two hundred and twenty third.
We saw two hundred and twenty thousand tons of contaminated
soil removed, We saw tens of millions of gallons of
water removed. They ended up becoming a massive EPA effort
(28:12):
that actually is still ongoing and in a way for
the environmental and human impacts. There's going to be testing
going on for a long time to come. And I
would encourage anyone who's out there listening, who is in
that community, in the in the area that maybe you
used to go to East Palestine, but now you take
a detour, you go somewhere else. We all need to
do our part to help bring East Palestine, Ohio back
(28:34):
and very important to the Vice President. But unfortunately, too
many of these cases have shown that lack of leadership.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Well, and tell us what you're doing in Tijuana, because
it's an amazing here.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You have an issue where for decades Mexican row sew
which has been coming across the border. It's been poured
into the Tijuanna River. It ends up contaminating water and air.
We have Navy seals getting sick. They have to do
training somewhere else. So we have decided enough is enough.
We're going to Tijuana in the coming days. I can't
(29:06):
wait to get there. We're gonna be on the US
side of that border. We have a whole plan of action.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I'm just just warning you when you're in the cabinet,
what happens in Tijuana does not stay in Tijuana.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, yes, sir, great advice. And especially if you drink
the water, you'll be bringing that back to you, back
with you to d C. So listen, it's something that
we're gonna step up on and tackle and we're proud
of it. E p A wants to assist. And these
are Americans that we see over there California, do they
(29:38):
vote red or blue. All your listeners know the answer
to that one doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
But look, you're you're you're cleaning that crap up. Literally,
I mean that that is valuable. That's what we want
the e p A to be doing. That's important. Let
me let me ask you so. So you and I
are in Midland, Texas. We spent the day. We started
by going to to a rig that was drilling an
oil well. We then had a roundtable and actually when
you were being confirmed and you came by my office,
(30:04):
you and I have been good friends for over a decade,
but when you were being confirmed, I said, I want
to ask you to commit to come the Midland Texas
and sit down with oil and gas leaders, with entrepreneurs,
with people that are producing energy and hear from them.
And it's amazing. You're the first EPA administrator in history
(30:25):
to come to the middle of Odessa, which is astonishing.
It's like saying an ag secretary had never been to Iowa.
It's like saying a secretary of State had never been
to the United Kingdom or never been to Israel. Like
your job, every EPA administrator should be in the Permian
base and given the importance of it and the involvement
of the EPA. So, so, tell us about you met
(30:48):
with wildcatters and business leaders, a lot of people that
are good friends of mine. Give us your impression of
the folks you met and and what you learned on
this trip. Was it valuable salt of the earth?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Job creators? You could just imagine how much sweat equity
was around that table of people who have poured their lives,
their heart, blood tears, creating jobs, providing energy to Texans
and beyond. And these people need us to be thanking them,
(31:20):
to be to be praising them for their good work,
to be supporting them as opposed to using our power
to try to make it more difficult for them. We
shouldn't be trying.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
To so by them. By the way, these guys are
all close friends and buddies of mine. I have had
great joy in recent weeks and months asking them how
much they're like Billy Bob Thornton. Have they ever been
tied up and had a mask over their head? Have
they been covered in gasoline by cartels? Our host Bill Holmes,
great great great friend, land man, very successful business man.
(31:52):
I asked him so so, By the way, if you
haven't watched Landman, you should. It's the best show on television.
I did play for President Trump in the Oval Office
last week. The segment from land Man where Billy Bob
Thornton talks to the left wing environmental lawyer about windmills.
It's the best three minutes on television of our lifetime.
(32:13):
And I will say, at least the Landman I know
in Midland tell me that that they murder fewer people
than they do in the show. It's still a great show.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And for Billy Bob, if you're out there listening, that
was some That was a free sponsorship from Senator Ted Cruz.
So you're you're lucky that you have that fan playing
it for President Trump in the Oval bringing a great
a great show to the people. And listen, we need
to get smart with energy policy. There are people promoting
win as an intermittent sources if that's a substitute for
baseload power. For all of you out there listening, let's
(32:44):
let's get smart, educate, advocate the people who are around
all of the good policy.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
It's a really fun show today. I hope you guys
enjoyed it. Don't forget this is exactly why We do
the show three days a week. Hit that subscribe auto
download button. You don't want to ever miss an interview
that we do, just like this one, and make sure
you share this podcast wherever you are. We would greatly
appreciate that on social media. So if you're on X,
if you're on Instagram, wherever you are, share this podcast
(33:10):
and the Senat and I will see you back here
for the weekend review on Saturday morning.
Good Friday morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
It is Verdict with Center Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with
you and we get to give you some really exciting news.
You're making history, Centator, as from what I know, you
are the first sitting member of Congress to ever have
a syndicated radio show. So everyone listening to this podcast
in a lot of markets, you're gonna be able to
(00:23):
hear Verdict on the radio as you're driving around town
on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Well, that's exactly right, and it's a big damn deal,
the Verdict Podcast. Thanks to our incredible listeners, we have
about a million unique listeners that listen regularly to this show.
We beat CNN every single week and as of this weekend,
we will be on air starting in eighty four stations
all over the country on syndicated radio, playing on Saturday
(00:50):
and Sunday. Our Friday podcast will air either Saturday or
Sunday on radio. That number, I hope and expect will grow.
But it's another chance to really communicate with people across
this country and to bring them behind the scenes, to
let them know what's going on, what's happening. And today
we've got a special guest on the podcast, Ben, You
and I are in Midland, Texas. Midland is an extraordinary town.
(01:14):
Midland is the I believe, the most entrepreneurial city on
the face of the planet. It is driving the shale revolution.
It is driving energy production in Texas and America. And
we're here with a special guest. We're here with the
Administrator of the EPA, Lee Zeldon. Now, Lee is a
good friend. I'm going to introduce him to you momentarily.
(01:37):
Lee is a veteran. He spent twenty two years in
active duty in the reserves. He was a member of
Congress for eight years from the great state of New York.
I'll tell you I actually went and campaigned with Lee
when he first ran. I went to Long Island and
campaigned alongside him. He is smart, he is principled, He
is a fighter. Lee was almost the governor of New York.
(02:00):
Lee should have been the governor of New York. It
would have been much better for the entire state of
New York if Lee had been the governor of New York.
But tragically New Yorkers decided they wanted more crime and
less jobs and more insanity, and so they voted to
re elect Democrats, and I will say the loss to
the great State of New York ended up being a
win to the United States of America because if Lee
(02:22):
were Governor of New York, he would not have been
able to say yes to the job he's in now,
which is administrator of the EPA. The EPA has a
massive impact on our lives, on our health and safety,
but also on the economy. And I'll tell you what, lee'
selden is the very first administrator of the EPA in
history to come to the Permian Basin, to come to
(02:43):
the middle of Odessa. He came because I invited him
to come. Lee. Welcome, Welcome to Verdict Center Cruz.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's great to be with you on the ground in Texas.
You feel the freedom here. I mean he's leaving the airport,
I'm thinking of all that budget surplus government being well run.
A whole lot of New Yorkers have come down in Texas.
They're not looking back. A whole lot of people fleeing
these blue states and they're heading to these freedom loving
states because they feel like their money is going to
(03:10):
go further, They'll feel safer, they'll live life freer. Center Cruise.
You've been at the tip of the spear here in Texas,
and it's been an awesome day. When I end up
heading back to DC, as you well know, I'm going
to be heading back with some oil stains here on
the boots, my own little souvenir that you provided to me,
and the staffers who enjoyed the trip to the rig
(03:31):
and speaking a whole bunch of great yep.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Now, what's so cool about you inviting him down here
is you guys went to an oil rig basically like
in the city. You're on it, you're seeing what's actually happening,
and it's shocking that no one in the EPA role
that you're in has ever done this before.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, it was fantastic. So we started the day. We
went to a rig that is drilling right now and
they're drilling sixty wells and it's in Midland. It's in
the city, it's not too far from downtown Midland and
they lt baffles around the rig so it doesn't make
much sound. It's not disturbing people. And what they're doing,
they're drilling down. They're going horizontal, and they're going horizontal
(04:11):
under people's homes, under people's businesses. Now, this is a
bonanza for the people in Midland. Why because in Texas, look,
you own your mineral rights. You own the rights to
everything from the surface all the way down to the
core of planet Earth. And that means literally, as they
drill a two and a half mile long horizontal well,
(04:32):
and they're drilling sixty of these, and if they go
under your home, Ben, you know what you get. You
get a check every month, a royalty check. They've literally
got ten thousand people. They might just be sitting in
an ordinary three bedroom home with their kids playing out back,
and they get every week mailbox money of money coming
in because a mile or two miles down this well
(04:56):
is producing oil and producing natural gas. And we saw
at all. It was incredible and it was a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
And the check ends up coming for many decades, like
forty years, and there was they said it was one
thousand workers involved in this project. I mean that benefits economically,
the work that they do to protect the environment. I
mean the innovation that they tap into, the way that
they are able to do things better for the economy
(05:26):
and the environment that so many other countries around the
rest of the world. The EPA administrator, Ben should be
seeing this stuff firsthand. Every administrator. If you're gonna have
a concern enough to regulate these types of industries, you
should make sure that you get your facts straight, that
you're talking to people on the ground, and that you're
applying common sense. And I think that I'm gonna be
(05:48):
able to do a better job going forward. And we've
we've hit the ground run and we're almost done here
with the first one hundred days of President Trump's administration.
We have a good team around us and there's a
lot to work are proud of. I feel like today's
visit will only make our team stronger.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Well, you know, one of the striking things ben as
Leah and I were touring the rig as he was
looking around and we were hearing about ten thousand Midlanders
who were getting checks in the mail every month. And
I got to say, it was interesting watching Lee's perspective
as someone who represented New York for eight years in
Congress and who ran for governor. And look, there's a
(06:25):
significant portion of New York State that has massive natural
gas resources. The Marcella Shale extends underneath Pennsylvania and New York.
And in Pennsylvania, just like here in West Texas, there
are people making enormous amount of moneys, ordinary families, school teachers,
and cops who are getting mailbox money every month because
(06:48):
of the resources being extracted from their property. And I
got to say, I think Lee was struck that he's
visited with those New Yorkers who have that natural gas
under their property and yet idiot politicians in New York
won't let them develop it. And it was striking watching
Lee making that option.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And they're desperate to tap into it. And in New
York they've banned the extraction of natural gas, they won't
improve new pipelines, they're banning gas look ups to new construction,
they're trying to move the state residents off of gas
power vehicles all together. And that list goes on. And
those people who have all this resource under their property,
(07:26):
and they see over the border in the Pennsylvania where
they are tapping into it.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
They're striving callacts and they're.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Driving Cadillacs on the New York side. They're not bad
policy in New York, good policy in Texas.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier,
and this has been a lot of the headlines that
you have been in is about you uncovering just an
incredible amount of waste within your agency, and you guys
are really going after that. Tell us a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
EPA's annual budget is about ten billion dollars. So far,
I've canceled twenty two billion dollars worth of grants. And
how is that possible? One might ask. Well, in twenty
twenty four, the amount that EPA obligated and spent was
over sixty billion dollars. A lot of money came through
(08:13):
the Inflation Reduction Act when Democrats were in charge of Congress,
and a lot of that money went through EPA. They
created these green slush funds and in one case, twenty
billion dollars which they couldn't get out on their own
fast enough. They ended up parking at an outside bank.
Towards the end of the Biden administration to give through
eight pass through NGOs, many of them were brand new.
(08:35):
One is that Stacy Abrams linked ngo that received two
billion even though they only received one hundred dollars in
twenty twenty three, and because of self dealing.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Wait, hold on a second, they went from one hundred
dollars to two billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
How crazy is that? And then on page seven of
their grant agreement, the Biden EPA gives them ninety days
to complete a training called how to develop a budget. Now,
if you feel like this.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You know, with two billion dollars, you don't need much
of a budget. Just spend on whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Oh, I'll add another dynamic to it. On page one
of the grant agreement, they have twenty one days to
start spending the money. So from day zero, they have
twenty one days to start spending money. They had ninety
days to complete a training called how to develop a budget.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Look, this is insane, and you described what you found
as essentially twenty billion dollars in gold bars that were
being thrown off the Titanic that the Biden administration they realized,
Oh no, Trump is coming in, Let's just throw this
all out the window. I mean, is that what you found.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
That's exactly what happened and what alerted Senate Republicans like
Senator Cruz. This was something that Senator Cruz and I
spoke about back in December when we met before my
confirmation hearing. There was this video that came out of
a Biden EPA political appointee, a Biden EPA political appointee,
talking about how they were tossing gold bars off the Titanic,
(10:03):
rushing and get billions of dollars out the door before inauguration.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
This was a Biden phrase that was it was.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
The Biden EPA political appointee.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I thought that they called it that. You gotta be kidding.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
That, yes, And they were doing it with an eye
towards getting themselves jobs at the recipient NGOs. So this
was US fulfilling a commitment to figure out we'll go
find the gold bars, a commitment to bring those gold
bars back into the treasury on behalf of the American taxpayer.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
But by the way, Lee, I will say, the the
last Democrat I'm aware of who was intimately involved with
gold bars was was your former neighboring colleague Bob Menendez,
who was sticking gold bars in his pockets and down
his pants. And and I will say Bob is currently
a resident of government housing.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well there are I'll talk about resident of government and
feeding off the taxpayer and abusing tax dollars. This whole
scheme is riddled with self dealing and conflicts of interest,
unqualified recipients, and a lack of EPA oversight. Deliberately reducing
EPA oversight twenty billion dollars. That's a lot of money.
(11:15):
And when that goes through those first eight passed irentities,
a lot of that money goes through more passed through entities.
And we found with one program that there was money
that by the time it was getting to the ultimate recipient,
it was going through four middlemen. And each of these
middlemen are getting their own fee for being middlemen. And
(11:35):
now when I had one other thing, we've heard so
much about that. We've heard the term climate change, we've
heard the term environmental justice. And you could build support
for your term by the way that you define it,
the way you argue and advocate for it. For example,
one might say, so if.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
You call it gold bars off the Titanic, that's not
the best messaging.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Amen. If you say that that we need to combat
environmental justice because there's a c community, there are communities
that are left behind and they need help, a lot
of Americans be like, Okay, they're communities that are left behind,
they need help. What do we need to do? But
here's the problem. In the name of environmental justice, they
will give money to their left wing activist friends instead
(12:16):
of actually remediating environmental issues. So one of the grants
I canceled was a fifty million dollar grant to a
group called Climate Justice Alliance. They say that climate justice
runs through a free Palestine. I say, God bless that
if you are gonna give, if you're gonna spend fifty
million dollars in the name of environmental justice, that money
(12:37):
should go towards actually remediating an environmental issue in the
name of climate change. They're willing to spend trillions of
dollars bankrupting this country, and we as Americans need to
get smartest to what the left has been up.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Let me say something on this, which is you're really
underscoring a very important point that when core up Democrats
waste billions of dollars, they're doing multiple things. One, they're
paying off their buddies and engaging in political corruptions. So
the two billion dollars that was given to Stacy Abrams
and her group was to buy new appliances for Georgians. Now,
(13:15):
mind you, Stacy Abrams ran for governor of Georgia. She
claimed she was the original election denier. She claims she won,
never mind the fact that she didn't. But the Democrats
are giving her two billion dollars because it turns out
if you give someone a brand new dishwasher, maybe maybe
they'll vote for you next time. It's just buying votes.
That's one consequence of it. But another consequence of it
(13:38):
is that's two billion dollars that's not being spent to
clean up a super fun site. That's two billion dollars
that's not being spent if you have a toxic waste dump. Look,
the EPA has really important missions. Every one of us
wants clean air and clean water because we all breathe
and we all drink water. And if you're wasting twenty
two billion dollars in cronium and corruption, that's to twenty
(14:02):
two billion dollars that are not going to clean up
the environment and make our kids safer. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
One hundred percent right? And we're not here saying we
want to take money from a left wing activist organization
and give it to a right wing activist organization. We're
talking about the money belongs to the taxpayers, and if
you're going to spend the money on protecting the environment,
it needs to go directly towards remediating in environmental issue
period I don't want to spend a dollar more than
(14:30):
what we need. And by the way, when some people call,
someone comes to me and they say I have an
idea on how to save five thousand dollars, that's a
lot of money to me. Let's save five thousand dollars.
Let's save five million dollars. We save five billion dollars.
And what's so frustrating is that there are people when
you say I have an idea to save a billion dollars,
the responses, well, that's only point zero zero three percent
(14:53):
of some larger pot of money. So you know who gives, well,
I give, and whether it's a B and M, we're
talking about one thousand dollars, whatever it is. When you're
steward of tax dollars, you need to treat it as
if it's your own money. You need to treat it
with even more care and concern. And unfortunately, there are
too many people in government who love wasting money and
they're paying it off to the friends. In this case,
(15:14):
we're talking about former Biden and Obama appointed administration officials,
former Democratic donors. These are people who they are close
with because of that alliance, not because of the qualifications
Stacy Abrams, and that NGO doesn't get the money because
Stacy Abrams is so experienced in handling billions of dollars.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
You were talking about how it's pretty clear that the
Democratic Party decided they were going to take the APA,
radicalize it, use it for their own personal gain and
their friends and their climate religion and the Great New Deal.
The list goes on and on. Can we take a
step back and explain to everyone listening around the country,
what is the original goal of the EPA, why was
(15:58):
it created? What is your goal? So they understand just
how far off the beaten path we've gotten.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The core mission of EPA is protecting human health in
the environment, and what conservatives, moderates, liberals, Republicans, Democrats, independents,
what Americans, almost all universally, should be agreeing on, is
that we should ensure clean air, land, and water for
all Americans. That's a goal that we often talk about.
And protecting the environment is something that conservatives care deeply about.
(16:27):
We believe that we can both protect the environment and
grow the economy. This isn't a binary choice. But what
was happening under the Biden EPA was that they were
strangulating the economy, and they were passing these regulations that
were costing trillions of dollars and they were designed to
put entire industries out of business. And Americans spoke up
(16:49):
last November. They say that they want a stronger economy,
they want more energy, they want more jobs. And President
Trump heard that loud and clear. The campaigned on a
lot of this, and that's why there's a National Energy
Dominance Council, there's a national energy emergency, and that's why
EPA is doing its part. We announced on March twelfth,
the largest deregulatory action in the history of the country.
(17:12):
We want to fix this instantly. We're not looking to
pace ourselves. I'm not saying, hey, stay tuned in twenty
twenty eight. The solution is going to finally be here.
Take my word for it. I'm saying right now, we
are actively walking into you and com at the same
time on all fronts. We're firing on all cylinders. We
will fix everything. That's our commitment.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You know. Historically, the EPA, I think, has been the
most dangerous and destructive regulator in the entire country, and
it is under radical Democrats, promulgated rules designed to destroy jobs,
to destroy entire industries. And it reminds me of a
joke that I have to bet I've told on the
campaign trail many times, which is what's the difference between
(17:53):
regulators and locusts. And the answer is, you can't use
pesticide on the regulators. And one time, actually out here
in West Texas, an old farmer leaned forward and said,
want to bet. So I'll just tell you when you
come in and say I'm the regulator. West Texas is
a different place. But I'll tell you why. I'm so
(18:15):
thrilled that Lee is doing this because he brings intelligence
and common sense and an understanding that we can't protect
the environment, keep our air and water clean. But that
doesn't mean being a crazy zealot trying to shut down
every job you can in America. And that's what under
(18:36):
Obama and Biden that they did. And so I want
to ask and look, and there's a consistent theme across
President Trump's cabinet of a bringing back, a resurgence of
common sense, bringing back a dedication to jobs, bringing back
a dedication to blue collar workers. So I want to ask.
One of the things we do on Verdict, we try
(18:58):
to bring people behind the scenes. And and so you're
a member of President Trump's cabinet, let me just ask you,
what's it like to be in Donald Trump's cabinet? Like,
bring our listeners in what does it? What does it mean?
Tell tell us about the first cabinet meeting you go to.
What's it like?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Now? I always thought that there was pretty much two
choices for a cabinet. That a president can have a
cabinet where everyone gets along and maybe they're all yes men.
They don't have the relationship with the president where they
can push back. It's just everyone just tells the president
what they want to hear. And then option two is
this team of rivals approach, where maybe people don't get
(19:35):
along with each other, there's some conflict, and from that
conflict and debate, maybe you end up with a with
a better cabinet, a member you know from the Abe
Lincoln Team of Rivals, A great book worth reading if
anyone out there hasn't read it yet, President Trump has
tried something different. I really think this this is the
model of how to do it. He has a cabinet
(19:55):
where everyone gets along with each other, there's great chemistry,
and we all have the relationship with President Trump where
we could tell him where we disagree on any topic.
We all have that relationship with him where we are
able to share our candid thoughts, our candidate recommendations. And
I think this cabinet stronger for it. I think that
(20:16):
the President and this administration his country is stronger for it.
Inside those cabinet meetings like we just had one last week.
It was a low over three hours long. It was
so positive and it was so substantive, and we're all
talking about what we are working on in our own agency.
In many cases, it's working with other agencies and the partnerships.
I'm a member of the National Energy Dominance Council, I'm
(20:38):
a member of the Make America Healthy Again Commission with
Secretary Kennedy, and cooperation between agencies ends up allowing us
to accomplish so many other goals. Like Senator Cruz has
been fighting for permitting reform, well, one of the best
ways to achieve permitting reform is to have agencies working
on this stuff at the same time, rather than having
(21:00):
to go through twelve months in one agency and then
you go to some other agency and they're guming up
the works and the person who's applying for the purpose, like, hey,
why don't you just tell us that year ago, Well,
we want to make sure that we are doing things
efficiently in a way that we were all making the
American public proud. It's a new way to be a
cabin to have a cabinet. I think this is the
way presidents should do it going forward.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
You know, I read something last week that was amazing,
which is Donald Trump, in three months of his second term,
has already answered more press questions at cabinet meetings than
Joe Biden did in four years as president. Although it
be fair Biden may have been answering questions of voices
he was hearing in his head. So I don't know
about that. All right, let me ask another question, which
(21:43):
is how did you find out you were gonna be
epa administrator? Tell us what it's like. So you're sitting
there minding your own business, like, how did this appointment
come about?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So it was a call on a Sunday morning right
after the election. I spoke to the President a few
times during that week after the election, and the Resident
was thinking through some different options. I didn't know what
he was going to ask me to do. Was clear
that he wanted me to come join the team. Sunday morning.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Though.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
He calls me up and he is locked in. He
is decisive, he is motivated. He had this vision of
exactly what we can be accomplishing at EPA, and his
motivation motivated me. I said, if you love this idea,
and I mean, I am all in. I was like, actually,
what I said was if you like it, I love it,
and then the rest is history. And one of the
(22:31):
cool things about contacting me on November eleventh, when you
still have two and a half months before a confirmation,
is that is a runway to get fully staffed up,
to fully prepare for how to hit the ground running
once we got there. So the President when he called
me up, he had like fifteen specific ideas he wanted
(22:52):
us to We're just talking about permitting reform. He's talking
about making America the AI capital the world. He wants
to bring back American auto jobs. He wants to unleash dominance,
and he had a lot of specific ideas on how
to do it. Now, I don't know what that conversation
was like eight years earlier when he was calling his
then nominee to be EPA administrator, But I will tell
(23:12):
you when he called me up, he was deeply knowledgeable
on everything that we needed to do to do a
great job.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Let me ask you another question. For some of you
who are listening, they hear the EPA, one of the
things that you're trying to do is deregulate and allow
for things to flourish that can have a huge impact
on every American's life. That can be at the gas pump,
that can be with natural gas, their house, that can
be with countless other things. Give a list of just
how important the EPA is and how much it touches
(23:40):
in average Americans life. They may not even realize.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
One is the EPA has tremendous power to gum up
the works on a lot. I mean, if you want
permitting reform before you even have to go through a
legislative process, EPA could speed up a whole lot of
permitting timelines by just getting out of the way. There
is incredible. Now, there's a whole bunch of landmark historic
(24:03):
laws that are on the books. Clean Air Act, Clean
Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, CIRCLA for super Funds,
Toxic Substances, Chemicals Act, Their Control Act. There's a lot
of laws around the books that have EPA doing different work.
It is important for us to ensure that we are
not overstepping these powers. And what we can do through
(24:25):
our deregulatory action amounts to what is the largest deregulatory
environment in the history of the country. There's never been
a year, there's never been a presidential administration or a
year in the past where the entire federal government did
more deregulation than the EPA will do in twenty twenty five.
(24:47):
That's how much we could accomplish in such a short time.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
That's incredible. You told a story earlier today about the
EPA's involvement in cleaning up the California wildfires, and it's
a good example of how it impacts people's lives. Like
you wouldn't necessarily think the EPA is involved in dealing
with wildfires, but you guys are deeply involved.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
As soon as though the wildfires hit Los Angeles, over
thirteen thousand properties destroyed, President Trump comes into office. He
inherits it happened a few days before he got there.
He signs an executive order. He says, EPA, you have
thirty days to do your entire Phase one hazardous material
removal before Phase two starts, which is the Army Corps
(25:26):
of Engineers doing their debris removal.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
And like with the wildfires, you have people's homes that
burn to the ground. There's a lot of toxic sludge.
I mean, it's a mess. It's dangerous. Like fires produce
bad stuff, and you guys had to figure out how
to clean it up. But do it in thirty days.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, First the response was that's impossible. This is going
to take you until the summer at best. It's going
to take a few months for sure. The lithium ion
batteries were all over this particular area. We got it
done in less than thirty days after ramping up to
fifteen hundred workers. Proud of the effort from EPA. We
do a lot like this that the our public might
not know about. And that's why in just a couple
(26:02):
of days we're heading to the Tijuana area in southern California,
where a lot of Mexican ros sewage is entering for decades.
We need to end it.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Number one about you guys dealing with water issues and Tijuana.
And I also and there's another one that a lot
of Americans will remember and that was the trained derailment,
and it seemed like the government was picking winners and
losers with that clean up or lack thereof. You guys
have also gotten involved with that because what you did
in the wildfires in California is incredible. That's what every
(26:32):
Americans should get, no matter where they live, and politics
shouldn't come into it.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
This is something that really showed then, Junior Senator JD
Vance as someone who understands leadership in a time of crisis,
when disaster strikes, your instinct as a leader should be
to show up at that site and to be the
voice of the people. And what was wild was JD
was like the only one there. I think that might
(26:58):
be cong from Bill Johnson's district.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Well, to be fair, Donald Trump came to.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, well and it was JA and JD, not.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Joe Biden, not Pete boudhage Edge, but Donald Trump came
That's right.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I remember the conversations where JD was engaging with
President Trump to make sure that President Trump was there.
And this was all in the initial days and weeks
after disaster struck. Yes, and a lot of people were wondering, well,
where is this person, where is that person, Where is
this agency? Where's that agency it should be? This is
(27:31):
the ultimate gut check and an instinct check of it.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Was amazing because Biden, the Democrats, they really liked Palestinians.
You would think they would have gone, oh my.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Gosh, you know all right.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
For the record, Lezelden is officially speechless. He doesn't know
what to do with that smart ass comment.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I'll tell you it was a It was such a
missed opportunity to lead and that EPA. Over the course
of time, they ended up being two hundred and twenty third.
We saw two hundred and twenty thousand tons of contaminated
soil removed, We saw tens of millions of gallons of
water removed. They ended up becoming a massive EPA effort
(28:12):
that actually is still ongoing and in a way for
the environmental and human impacts. There's going to be testing
going on for a long time to come. And I
would encourage anyone who's out there listening, who is in
that community, in the in the area that maybe you
used to go to East Palestine, but now you take
a detour, you go somewhere else. We all need to
do our part to help bring East Palestine, Ohio back
(28:34):
and very important to the Vice President. But unfortunately, too
many of these cases have shown that lack of leadership.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Well, and tell us what you're doing in Tijuana, because
it's an amazing here.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You have an issue where for decades Mexican row sew
which has been coming across the border. It's been poured
into the Tijuanna River. It ends up contaminating water and air.
We have Navy seals getting sick. They have to do
training somewhere else. So we have decided enough is enough.
We're going to Tijuana in the coming days. I can't
(29:06):
wait to get there. We're gonna be on the US
side of that border. We have a whole plan of action.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I'm just just warning you when you're in the cabinet,
what happens in Tijuana does not stay in Tijuana.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yes, yes, sir, great advice. And especially if you drink
the water, you'll be bringing that back to you, back
with you to d C. So listen, it's something that
we're gonna step up on and tackle and we're proud
of it. E p A wants to assist. And these
are Americans that we see over there California, do they
(29:38):
vote red or blue. All your listeners know the answer
to that one doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
But look, you're you're you're cleaning that crap up. Literally,
I mean that that is valuable. That's what we want
the e p A to be doing. That's important. Let
me let me ask you so. So you and I
are in Midland, Texas. We spent the day. We started
by going to to a rig that was drilling an
oil well. We then had a roundtable and actually when
you were being confirmed and you came by my office,
(30:04):
you and I have been good friends for over a decade,
but when you were being confirmed, I said, I want
to ask you to commit to come the Midland Texas
and sit down with oil and gas leaders, with entrepreneurs,
with people that are producing energy and hear from them.
And it's amazing. You're the first EPA administrator in history
(30:25):
to come to the middle of Odessa, which is astonishing.
It's like saying an ag secretary had never been to Iowa.
It's like saying a secretary of State had never been
to the United Kingdom or never been to Israel. Like
your job, every EPA administrator should be in the Permian
base and given the importance of it and the involvement
of the EPA. So, so, tell us about you met
(30:48):
with wildcatters and business leaders, a lot of people that
are good friends of mine. Give us your impression of
the folks you met and and what you learned on
this trip. Was it valuable salt of the earth?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Job creators? You could just imagine how much sweat equity
was around that table of people who have poured their lives,
their heart, blood tears, creating jobs, providing energy to Texans
and beyond. And these people need us to be thanking them,
(31:20):
to be to be praising them for their good work,
to be supporting them as opposed to using our power
to try to make it more difficult for them. We
shouldn't be trying.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
To so by them. By the way, these guys are
all close friends and buddies of mine. I have had
great joy in recent weeks and months asking them how
much they're like Billy Bob Thornton. Have they ever been
tied up and had a mask over their head? Have
they been covered in gasoline by cartels? Our host Bill Holmes,
great great great friend, land man, very successful business man.
(31:52):
I asked him so so, By the way, if you
haven't watched Landman, you should. It's the best show on television.
I did play for President Trump in the Oval Office
last week. The segment from land Man where Billy Bob
Thornton talks to the left wing environmental lawyer about windmills.
It's the best three minutes on television of our lifetime.
(32:13):
And I will say, at least the Landman I know
in Midland tell me that that they murder fewer people
than they do in the show. It's still a great show.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And for Billy Bob, if you're out there listening, that
was some That was a free sponsorship from Senator Ted Cruz.
So you're you're lucky that you have that fan playing
it for President Trump in the Oval bringing a great
a great show to the people. And listen, we need
to get smart with energy policy. There are people promoting
win as an intermittent sources if that's a substitute for
baseload power. For all of you out there listening, let's
(32:44):
let's get smart, educate, advocate the people who are around
all of the good policy.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
It's a really fun show today. I hope you guys
enjoyed it. Don't forget this is exactly why We do
the show three days a week. Hit that subscribe auto
download button. You don't want to ever miss an interview
that we do, just like this one, and make sure
you share this podcast wherever you are. We would greatly
appreciate that on social media. So if you're on X,
if you're on Instagram, wherever you are, share this podcast
(33:10):
and the Senat and I will see you back here
for the weekend review on Saturday morning.
Host
Ben Ferguson
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