S1E1 Pilot + Richard Shepard

Mark and Ana dig into the very first episode of Ugly Betty. The memories flow as they revisit all the iconic introductions, establishing the Suarez family dynamic, the incredible acting performances that stand the test of time, and the cultural attitudes (like body shaming) that definitely do NOT. Then, they speak to Pilot director Richard Shepard about going against his agent's advice, creating the look and feel of Ugly Betty, and the best audition he's ever seen (hint: Hilda!).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello, Hi, How you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Everybody out there?

Speaker 1 (00:16):
What are you doing here?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Betty?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
What are you doing here? Come back?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you all here again?

Speaker 1 (00:24):
My name is MARKO Delacado.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
My name is An Ortiz.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Let me introduce to you. I like doing that. Can
we do that moving forward?

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Hey, guys, I will let him do that. I'm not
used to be people being, you know, like so gentlemanly.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, I'm not used to you being so.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
You're a peg.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I'm Mark Delocado and this is my best friend Anna Ortiz.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
What's up? I can so happy that you all are back.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
We are here to talk about the pilot of our
beloved Betty.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yes, and Viva Betty. By the way, that's the name
of this podcast. Yeah, you didn't know already.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
So we're coming back.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
And I mean, there's so much to say about this episode, right,
I mean, Marky, you were a.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Little, little little one. Yes, you were adorable. I know.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
And I don't know if you guys remember, but Mark
is actually doing the rewatch. He's doing a watch watch.
He's never watched these episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Really, I think you've seen a few.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I had seen the pilot when it came out, and
I saw the finale episode of the series finale, right, so,
which is eighty three episodes in between.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I have not seen.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
That's so, but you what's funny is that the pilot episode,
and this is not a spoiler alert, but the last episode,
we actually we actually copied a scene that you had
in the pilot to also have that same moment.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Between you and Betty Yes in the last episode.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
And you know what's so crazy about that? A fun
anecdote about about that. I mean, I think that everyone
that's that's listening or watching has has seen the show
that Pat Field and and team made sure that America
and I were in the same color palette.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
So the so in the in the pilot episode, she's
in a blue, uh sweatshirt and I'm in like a.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Like a reddish pink like T shirt shirt.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
And if you look at them, kind of stacked from
season four from season one. I'm in like a like
a pink a pink cardigan and she's in a probably
at that point it was in fact, Mark Jacobs, thank
you so much.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I would have to we like what it's like you
got at the bug and Base who is.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Justin was in his mode era. He was definitely in
his fashion.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
But he always was in his Mode era even when
we met him, even though it wasn't you know, he
did have a fashion glow up.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
But I'm like, so, well, you were the one when
when she got the call from from Okay, well we're
skipping ahead, but yes, right, you were the one who
she was like for Mode anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Okay, so let's.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
See, but we can get we can get there, because
it's like, so I'm like so excited to talk about
that scene in fact, and I just think that one
of the you know, one of the things that we're
going to do on this podcast is we're going to
play like a few little games with each other for
every episode.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
And you guys are definitely welcome to give us any
ideas that you have or like your opinions.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I want to hear them, even if you're.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Reading us, and we want to read them, like we
want to read them and actually talk about them.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, exactly, because.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Okay, so actually speaking because you and I you said
to save this for the pod, so I'm saving it
for the pod.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
But we were talking.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
About how Marky was like, well, basically we can't just
like read the divas on the first episode, because you know.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
It was what it was for that place in time.
But so we go.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
So Betty goes in, she goes into the she's wearing
the poncho, she gets she gets rejected from the guy.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Bradford. Mead is looking over at her. She comes home,
she doesn't know.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
She thinks she blew it the audition, the interview. But
we open up in the home and of course you
know this is going to be told from a home
point of view because that that was our world.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
But we open up. This is my question to you, Marky.
So we open up and it's Selma and she's, you know,
on the telenovela which I loved. I loved the whole
thing of our show. And it's salmon, her gorgeous. She's
holding a gun and.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
She's shaking, and you know, so this is my question
to you. So she's she's obviously with a man who.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Is you know, uh.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
They have a very volatile relation, that's right, And she's
holding the gun and she's going to shoot him, but
he swipes the gun away and grabs her and she
ends up making out with him.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Now, in this day and age, could we do that?

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Well, it sounds like a normal Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Night to me, fair fair enough, But I don't you
know what.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
I actually think that we could because because it's a novella,
and also, like you know, camp is not dead, thank god.
Can we just all like be just so for real,
just be so for real when it comes to representation, right,
we can all be.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Uh like PC and a lot better.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Right, But when it comes to just like something that's
playing out on television, especially like it's kind of a
meta experience, right, like and also like in the telenovella space,
like if you don't know that much about telenovelas, like
I mean, it's it's it's high and drum.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
I mean like like in the.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
It's hysterical, absolutely, and so yes, I think that that exists.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I think that that should continue to exist.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think that we should make more films that are
are or more television shows that that involved that kind
of camp.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I love it. I love that.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
That's what you think.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I mean because for me, I wasn't. It didn't bump
me at all.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
But when I was watching it, I was like, hmm,
I wonder if certain you know, certain people will feel
a certain type of way about this woman sort of
like you know, she's going to shoot him, but then
they end up making lave.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
I mean, yeah, because that's what you're hilarious.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
It is high camp and I and I think you're right.
There is always a place in Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
So that was my that in that period.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I don't think that we I don't think that we
leave it. I think that we actually need more of it.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
What do you guys think?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
I'm curious to Yeah, I would like to know what
what our listeners think about that.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
But the other thing is you're watching and I tell
you to come over have some flun and you're like,
I don't want to have fun. I'm gonna get fat.
And I say it doesn't matter because you're a boy.
It doesn't matter if you're fat.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Feep that in two thousand and like six or seven,
so that we could leave it, you know.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
But I'll tell you right now if if I'm not
evenna say if when we do the Ugly Betty reboot,
Hill does not changing.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
No, No, Hill is going to still be Also, he
has like a teenager.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
I don't know a teenager. You're going to be your age.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
You have a baby, don't you?

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:33):
No, No, what am I talking about? Hill?

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Didn't have a baby.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Excuse me, I haven't seen the show.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Oh come on, you knew I didn't have a baby.
Oh well I was pregnant.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Okay, so you guys, sorry, we're going off on a tangent.
But I did get pregnant during the shooting of the show,
not the not the first season.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
We're still learning how to do this because we really
need to stay on.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Okay, we're saying, but no, Hill did not have a baby.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
But but there weren't they thinking about it?

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yes, I'm sure anyway, So okay, so the boys, So
I wasn't wrong the boy being fat, we stays that
stays back there, that's what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh and by the way, in terms of the boy.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
No, the fact that I can yeah yeah, boys being fat?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah that that's okay.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
It doesn't matter if you're you know, well, just her
sentiment about it.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Can we just start from like from the top, like
the first the first episode, Yeah, like like of just
like the first the first scene with with the model,
because one of my so one of my favorite and
we're gonna play you know this, like I said before,
We're gonna play this fun game of like what our
favorite lines are. And honestly, one of my favorite lines

(08:49):
from the pilot is.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Uh Milan Dolce and Gabanna fall.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
It's one of my favorite brit lines because I honestly
I was watching it and I was like, this, unfortunately
is like me when you ask me what I'm wearing.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
It's so true, it is so you, it is it
and you and you say it to me the same way.
You don't even look at me and you tell and
you talked down to me like that.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, talking down is a huge No, that's what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I talked down to you when when it's both there and.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yes, because here I am in my like you know,
sweatpants that my daughter doesn't like anymore that I'm wearing, and.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
You know she has all the cool stuff, by the way,
I mean, honest daughter an his daughter has all of
our cool stuff. I'm including mine and but I but
I think that like one of the things that I
also again in terms of of of one liners that
I really love are things that are recurring through our

(10:02):
show and through these characters, because I think that for example,
you know Michael Yury's kind of squinting that you know,
that is what it is.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
It's like him him always sort of like scheming. He's
so brilliant he can do it with a look.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
No, he's probably the whole entire business with a look.
And Becky Newton's walk, right, Amanda's walk. But one of
the one, one of the things that I recognized upon
watching the pilot was that Hilda.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I'm just saying.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
That prevails by the way, I say that in my
everyday life.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, No, you were not acting.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Nov I was not.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
You were not acting.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
It's true and yeah, and I find that to be
But I but I.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Can I just tell you this, well, can I just
tell you?

Speaker 4 (10:55):
So when my cousin, first of all, like the whole
I was watching the pilot, and all those necklaces that.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
I was wearing was where Hilda was wearing, were mine.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
This was before Pat got me the Hilda which I'm
wearing right now, the Hilda name plate. So I wanted
like layers of gold necklaces, so I just brought all
of mine.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
So those were all of mine.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
So we're in the house. This is the first scene
with the family. You're a little little.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, And it was our first scene.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
It was it was the first scene we shot. Yeah, together.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, yes, I think so.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
I think it was.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, I believe that with the novel, Yes, with the
novella the Flaw and I'll Get Fat and and you know,
and and but but you know, it's so It's what's
so awesome about that is that the the first scene
establishing the family dynamic, it was done so well to
establish like the dynamic within the Suarez family.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
That's what I was going to say.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
Even just like the sets, each and every one of
the sets was so specific to every and it was
so like I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but Daniel
Mead's apartment was so specific to Daniel me Our house
was so iconic and amazing with the phone on the
wall in the kitchen and yes you know, like that

(12:14):
sort of flowery wa and tablecloth and mode of.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Course mode like the most the tube.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
I just I mean, and if you are tuning in
right now, this is actually the little blanket that was
on the uh couch. But yeah, I mean, it felt
everything felt like when I walked in, I remember, you know,
being so young and like really not not understanding like

(12:45):
what we were about to first of all embark on,
because I don't know any.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Of us even know. I think we were all sort
of no.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I don't think that anyone knew, but I just didn't
really like understand like what it was. In fact, I know,
but but I think that the family dynamics were and
the ways in which the Suarez family was written just
from jump, from the first time that you see us,
the first time that you meet these characters, you already

(13:14):
get an automatic sense of what the vibe is. That's right,
do you know what I mean? Like you know who
all four of those people are within their family dynamic
within that first scene, that's right.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
And I think that you know in the same thing.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
It's true because you were like you were so like
I don't want to watch the novela, I want to
watch fashion TV? Right, And then you know, and then
I love that when they cut to the Fashion TV
of it all and the host do you remember him?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
He's really really wonderful we all.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
I think also throughout the season we had such amazing
fashion TV hosts. Yes, like I caught yes Fashion TV
Alec Mapa being one of them.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
But this the first guy. He had this like incredibly like.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
He had I thought it was like a Transatlantic accent.
It was like Dawn me. Yeah, it was very like.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
It was like kind of Catherine Hepbernie like, it was
kind of like where are you from.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
I loved it so much and I I just applaud
that actor because.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
No, he was incredible and I love and I loved Yeah,
I loved all of those kind of you know, there
was such a meta like concept to like, like so
many incredible actors that that came onto the show that
that did things that were they weren't like technically characters
in the show, but they were characters in the show.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh and that was the.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Scene too where that was the scene where I'm like,
I wasn't saying that necessarily that's what you're talking.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
About necessarily necessarily you know.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
What I loved that I did that was a total
spur of the moment.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Was when I I took a knife like our butter knife,
and I checked my lipsick.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yes, but this is the thing I think that that's
that's something in the pilot that you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, we were all figuring it out, but there was
such a freedom to do.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
What is so But what is so strange, like or
in such a good way about our show is that
I think that, you know how sometimes you like watch
a first season and the second season it's a completely
different show. I think that there's something so awesome about
the fact that.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
We all had.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Things about our characters that prevailed throughout the entire series, right,
that were established from the pilot, you know.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
And I thought like we had the most amazing director
sort of at the helmet was his vision, Richard Shepherd.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Oh god, what a dream, what a king?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh God.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Also, like you know.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
He has to Richard, you have to do our reboot.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah, well, well you have to also come onto the pod.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
No, But I mean, but it was all vibe his tone.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
I think he really set the tone for us all
and was get He gave us so much freedom within
these characters too.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
That's right to just.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Sort of like bug out and find our I think, like, okay,
so here's another thing. Sorry if I'm scooping ahead a
little bit. First of all, Kevin Sessman comes in. We
get to meet Walter Yesh. He's like one of my
I am so obsessed with him, I can't even beg And.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
By the way, can I just say that, like like now,
like watching television, it's it's like everyone copies Kevin Sessman,
that's so right, Like everyone copies Walter, that's so right.
Like I'm sorry, Like everyone copies that Kevin Sessman, but
like the awkward like boyfriend guy, Like it's like, that's

(16:44):
Kevin Sessmon on ugly Betty.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Sorry, sorry, I hate to break it to you, Bene better.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
He's so and again like what you were saying with
the car, like you immediately know who Walter is. Yes,
when he comes.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
In with that broke and the button doesn't work, but
a return, I mean, we just immediate. And the fact
that I was like that that Hilda was so psyched
that he was going to ask her to marry like this,
I feel.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
That made me feel a little bad. Like Hilda's expectations
are so low.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Well you know, they get they start to she starts
to aspire, but at first she's like, no, you come
to work with at herbal Lux and you get married
at Erba.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Lux and herbal Lux name plate.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Necklace that's right, Herba Lux and yeah and so okay,
So Walter comes in, we get to meet him.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
He's so fabulous, and then we you know, bait and switch.
He breaks up with her, evil breaks up with Betty.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
The iconic Gina Gambara talk about there can be only.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
One no really, Eva, please come on the pod. She
is no no. Gina Gambarro is one of the most
perfect characters ever.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
She was my perfect foil. There could have been a.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Spinny is just and she is like she's kind of
like like Hilda's evil twin. That's right, you know what
I mean, Like right, like, but she's like Hilda's evil twin,
you know what I mean. And I and and they
are obviously whereas.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Where like Hilda has some guardrails, Gina has.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
No none, and I love it.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
We will get so much more into Gina, and I think.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
That the you know, one of the one of the
things that I like so much about watching the pilot
too is that there there's so much fun that we have.
There's so there's so much comedy. We're having such a blast.
But when you know, when Walter breaks up with Betty,
you know, that's that's when we start feeling the fact that, oh,

(18:58):
this isn't just a cut dry comedy that's watching Like,
there's heart to this show in a really gigantic way,
and this woman feels things, and you know, and we're
not like it's not just like we're not just making jokes.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
No, that's right.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
And how Sylvia like crammed so much in without it
seeming like it was just too much exactly, and Richard
sort of handling Richard Sheppard the director, handling it all.
And man, that was a grueling pilot too, because back
to that first scene yep, when she's walking up the
stairs and and like and following that, that was I

(19:36):
think that was the last scene we shot.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Of the pilot.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
That was the last one.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yes, I think, so that was, you know what I mean.
And that was what probably like three o'clock in the morning.
She had probably already shot the front part of that
scene anyway. Just stuff like that was so we were
also but you know, we just were.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Like running on.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
But I remember the energy, yes, that I felt, like
I don't I don't necessarily recall as much like the
filming of the scenes as much as I recall the
energy that I felt around me, like everyone just was
so excited, like it was like and I just, you know,
you never so little. I had never been on like

(20:14):
a you know, a set before. I didn't understand like what,
you know, what the excitement about like filming anything.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Actually, so then we walk in.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
Okay, Oh, this is another question I have for you
about do we leave this? Is this something that we
leave in the day back?

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
I personally thought it was one of the funniest moments
and it's brilliant and it's it's it's Amanda, right, I mean,
it's Becky's character Amanda. So when when she comes in
and she's like are you the before and Betty's like
what and she's like are.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
You you know whatever whatever?

Speaker 1 (20:49):
And then are you.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Amb I mean, like, could we do that now?

Speaker 1 (20:56):
I want to? I say keep it.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I of course say keep it.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
I say because I know for a fact that that
was a choice made by Becky Newton.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yes, you know what I mean and so and so.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
It's in that way that I I say, like one
hundred percent keep it, not only because it's funny, but
because like she made a choice as an ad in
that moment, right like like and that I I don't know,
I just can appreciate that as like an artist.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Okay, because I was watching it, and I mean every
single time I watch her deliver that line, that cracks
me up every time.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
And then she's like. And then the next the next
scene she's walking and she's walking like that, she is
exhaust like it's like she's exasperated. Like I'm like, I'm
tired watching her walk, you know what I mean. And
it's just but it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
I know she's I mean, I kind.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Of Betty walking into the conference room. Okay, well, like,
so this is after we meet Amanda.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Well don't you remember we would say so right before
she walks and she gives herself the pep talk. Yep,
you are an attractive, intelligent, confident business woman. If I'm
saying that to myself every time I walk into audition
right now, like like today, like every day of my life, I.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Need to start. I do I need to start?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I say it all the time, I.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Don't ever say it, and maybe that's why I'm not
booking it.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Lies You are such a star, I know.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
But but then so she goes in, you know, she
she obviously bumps into the wall. Nice little pratfalling.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
We live the physical comedy of America. Fererra is not appreciated.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
She does it so well and in that pilot it's everywhere,
and she also like, hasn't done it since, which I
also think is like hilarious. I'm like, all right, Diva,
you can do this? Yeah, like, can someone throw you
off of like something? I don't know, I can't exactly
say what, but like, you know, do a pratfall for us?

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Come on, I bring us back, take us back, you
know what?

Speaker 3 (23:13):
You know what can't stay in two thousand and six
or seven is America Ferrera doing physical comedy.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
We got to bring that to twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Hello that okay, so she walks in again. Okay, So
now we're going to be doing favorite lines because this whole.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, well, and this is I think that this actually is.
In fact, I know what you're going to say because
I know you too well. I know exactly what you're
going to say. Your favorite line is it's you all
the time you you do.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I'm hilaciously, I'm halayious.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
I'm hilariously upset Mark I. And and again, one of
my favorite things Michael Yury like looking down like bug eye.
You know what I mean, It's like it's not even
the squint, the way that Michael Ury is able to
use his eyes to his advantage, or it is unreal.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
He's so I just he's so brilliant and and and
Mark is such an amazing character.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I think we said that before.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
I'm sure he said it a million times, that he
wasn't even supposed to be a regular, but he's so
brilliant and so incredible and was such an easy like
he belonged there and and so they you know, I
think his character was supposed to sort of be like replaceable,
but he is not.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Really yes, and he I mean, but that but that
was I think that Vanessa, I believe, was the one
that was like.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Him, like, no, we that's this, this is it, this
is it, and.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
I mean, and we're so we're so very excited to
like have both Michael and Becky on the pod. I really,
I really, I just want to like talk to them
about just what their experience was, because they have said
such lovely things.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
About us, I mean, and their experience is.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Like working with us, and I just feel like, you know,
as many people that that uh, that we will have
on the podcast or not, that we have such such
an amazing rapport, like such reverence for each other, you know,
such right, but like I'm saying, like just such reverence
for each other's work, though you know what I mean,

(25:18):
And and and I and I remember in speaking of
in speaking of that, I feel like when we filmed
the scene that then became like kind of like the
color palette copied in in season four of me coming
out with the Camra meal tea with America.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay caramel, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Couldn't no denial, Well, I mean anyway that I was
so nervous to film that scene because I was like
such a big fan of America. Like it was like
it was like she was you know, we we said

(26:07):
this last episode, Like I said this last episode, like
that was Carmen, that's my sister heard the Traveling Pants,
Like this was not Betty Suarez. Like I didn't know
who Betty Suarez was right when we were making the pilot,
you know what I mean. I didn't know who Justin was.
I didn't know who Hilda was. I don't know who
any of the like us clowns were to be. And

(26:31):
and I was so nervous because there were so many lines.
I just remember being like.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Oh my gosh, this is like a real scene.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
No, Like I'm actually like I'm like I'm going to
watch this. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
It wasn't like one flipping thing to say no.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
He was eleven and we were all swirling about. I mean,
it was total chaos.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
A lot of this stuff was like I think Terry
told us, Terry Weinberg, our delicious and producer, she's sitting
right here, she's so gorge she's so fab But she
told us that there's that whole scene in the montage
where there's like a great Dane and it jumps up
on America and she has to walk. It's when Daniel's

(27:15):
trying to get her to quit. That was Gorilla TV
because they didn't have a permit, they didn't have anything.
They were just sort of like, we need to get
this shot, and we just shot it. That's the other
thing about shooting in New York too, or shooting, you know, shooting.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
You do it, you can't about it.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
And that was and that was, you know, our fearless director.
We're getting the shot.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
And Terry also told us that the photo shoot scene
where Betty quits yes was the first that was the
first thing she shoot to day.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
That was her first scene of ever shooting of anything.
Can you imagine? And she had to be wild.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
I know I can't either, because I remember talking to
her about it. She was like, oh that outfit, I
can't believe it, you know everything, and she looked fabulous.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
But that is so extraordinary.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
But here's you know what though, A I will bring
this up is that you know, of course she did
look fabulous. But let's talk about do we leave something
in two thousand and six?

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Right?

Speaker 3 (28:16):
What about body about like body dysmorphia or or like
body standards, right, like what do we what did we
consider to be beautiful in two thousand and six?

Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's right, Like there were no sort of like it
was just all stick.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
There was like I'm sorry, there was no such thing
as body positivity in two thousand and no, like absolutely
not no semblance of it. So looking at it now
really like watching the episode and seeing the fact that
everyone's like laughing at laughing at America like like essentially
like laughing at Betty, like calling her fat essentially, I'm like,

(28:54):
she looks just fabs love she looks lovely. I don't
really understand what the problem is. I think that there's
something that's really interesting about about that that it's like, uh,
you know, we we on this podcast as well, when
I have this kind of cultural like conversation and and
and and make cultural commentary of what do we leave there?

(29:15):
But I think that maybe that this is one of
the rare times when we can say, like, wow, we've
actually come up a long way regarding regarding the ways
in which we view women's bodies. That's right, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Okay, So she's hillaciously upset.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Purge this from memory, please, that's that she goes on.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
We get to meet Christina Ashley Jensen.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
For president, like for the Empress of the universe. Yo,
she should run everything.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
I swear to God, Ashley Jensen should be president of
the world.

Speaker 6 (29:50):
The world.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
I no, no, no, I'm telling you guys, I'm starting
to gofund me.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Actually En runs the world.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
We hang with her a lot, Mark and I. We
will travel over oceans to see that one.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
We have in fat. We have in fat, even though
I did get food poisonous.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well that's another story for another time.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
But then I do remember we meet I remember those
two actresses what were they called, Zelda and Nancy come
in and I think that had we stayed in New York,
Zelda and Nancy, because remember there was the Bizarro version
of Sex and the City.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yes, and I would have loved to have seen Christina
like our little posse.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yes, exactly, like had because we went back and shot
the rest of us the season in LA and those
were two New York, fabulous New York actresses. Okay, so
then we go into a montage. I still think we
give the best. Oh you know what I did notice
on the montage is in Times Square the big giant

(30:52):
billboard of Diddy well choked.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Welp, we didn't have we have a permit for her
to walk a dog across the streets, so I mean
we couldn't control the Times Square billboards.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
We leave that into thousand.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
No, no, we're leaving that. No, don't look at that.
Don't look at that, don't look at it. Look over there.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I know that's really it's like, sorry.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
No, no, leave that, leave that. We'll leave it. Okay, fine,
And by the way, why are you even bringing it up?
I just had to because leave it over there.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
I know everybody who's watching the pilot saw that. They
were like, oh, oh, I know it. Okay.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
So then we go back anyway, so then we're at Daniels.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
We'll get it more into that later. You guys, let
us know.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, a bonus episode.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
So then we're back at right where Daniel's apartment his
loft loft.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Oh, you know that I don't live for an open concert. Yeah,
well your Dumbo loft when it kind of gave when
we lived in New York when we were filming season three,
that's true.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
It was that was so nice.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
Okay, So anyway, Amanda there looking like a snack.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
You know that I love a trench coat with lingerie underneath.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
And I remember her sweating that she was so nervous
and so embarrassed, which.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Is also like again, like, I think that one of
the main things that we're going to talk about while
we're making this podcast is the ways in which the
women on this television program thought about their bodies. Oh,
because of the ways in which we were like culturally
in two thousand and six to twenty ten, we have

(32:37):
come you know, we've regressed culturally in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
But guess what, we do.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Not necessarily talk about women's bodies in the same ways
that we did in two thousand and six. Becky Newton,
she was sweating putting on a pair a broad and
a pair of swear.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
I mean, I can't.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
I have to ask her because I bet you she's
psych to have that now because she looked like a like.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
A that emerald green lace and green.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
I was like, and then the little like the little
flash at the.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
End and she said by, she said, she said by.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
And then here comes the other one. What do you
call what a red roosters on the.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I don't know that was her codeword.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like I
mean Becky Newton, Yeah, I mean all like every single
woman on this on this television show had a perfect body.
Yes if you, I mean you beat yourself up about
your body, and you did at the time, by the way,

(33:40):
I know, and like when you watch the pilot again,
you're like, are you like she was snatched Boots?

Speaker 4 (33:48):
That's boots nice big, but yeah, I loved it. The
other thing was Gina Grashawn coming in. I thought, first
of all, she her character so Bananas is definitely supposed
to be sort of like a like a done, but
she she does with everything completely makes it her own.

(34:10):
And I didn't know like what like what accent it was,
but it was like one that I.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Wa europea period.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
It was He's freaking joke.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Faking.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
That's an iconic line. He's freaking Joe.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
She was kind of It's kind of giving Milania, isn't
it giving?

Speaker 1 (34:38):
It's giving Malania her making.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
A dog could Millennia wishes.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
When Gina Gershon making out with the dog, it was
so the dog's tongue fully directly in her mouth. It
was so, And listen, I could commit to my craft.
A dog's tongue is not going in my mouth, no
one being so for real, know you are, but.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I'm pretty sure one of my dogs has had their
tongue in your mouth.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Probably Maggie.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
I'm just saying people, he talks a good game.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
But I didn't make that decision on my own choice
that I made.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Maggie has no boundaries.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
That's my dog.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Okay. So then wait, so when does it cut?

Speaker 4 (35:17):
When do we When do we figure out that Vanessa
and Frenchie are have like done this all on their
own and we see Vanessa in bed with him.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
I feel like that's when we discover that they're hooking up.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
And did you know that that, according to our delightful Terry,
was Vanessa's first thing that she ever shot.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
You know what between America and Latex for the first time,
and Vanessa in bed making out with friend, making out
with frenchiepoo. I mean, if that doesn't set the tone
for what our showing.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
I believed every second of it.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, I believe anything that Vanessa Williams does. Are you
kidding me? What are you talking about? That's right, it's
all about.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Okay, so then she should be Empress of the universe along.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
With Ashley Jensen is like prime minister and like Vanessa's
like the queen. That's right, you know what I mean,
like a like a really gorgeous figurehead.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Love this, I love everything about it. You guys, we
are going.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
To I would love to see Vanessa in a crown.
Actually doesn't want to wear a crown.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I actually don't want to wear a crowd exactly. Actually
likes a good suit made by Vivian Westwood.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Correct, that's what happens. She's an MP or a prime minister. Okay, anyway, we.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Solve the world's problem.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
So then.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Okay, so so this is freaking joke, right, and and
he gets fired he's oh, Bradford me doing pilates iconic.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Period, who was doing pilates back then?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
By the way, Alan Dale. Good for you, because I mean, no, two.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Takes of me on a on a Reformer. You're not
that queen we're gonna have I don't think that I
could do it.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
When he said my leg is cramping? Was that an improv?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Or was that like? I don't know. We need to
talk to him. We need to speak to him.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
How many of these are the questions we want to know?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
I would be hysterical crying if I had to do
more than two takes Reformer.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
I would be hysterical laughing at you doing two takes.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Oh, I'm sure you would.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
Guess what I could do. I could do all day
on a Pilate's Reformer.

Speaker 6 (37:25):
Good.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
You know what we should do it?

Speaker 3 (37:27):
We should maybe do it as a challenge, maybe maybe
a little like a Patreon bonus episode. See how many
times that on A can lift your leg up on
a Reformer?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I could do it a lot, trust and believe I'm old.
The girl's got to stay in shape.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
I'm want to see how many times I'd like to
count I could do it. Listen how many times?

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Take care of myself? When I tell you, everybody out there, I.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Think you can do it. Twenty times. Yes, how many?

Speaker 3 (37:56):
What do you think what do you think is the
most left.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
On the reformer? Back and forth though, oh, twenty.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Would be nothing.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
What do you think.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Nothing? I could do I could do.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
fIF well, no, but Terry Weinberg is sitting in the
room and and no she's Harry doesn't count because like
Terry can do like seven thousand.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
All right, fine, I could do fifteen. All right, look
back to the business at hand. We don't have to
talk about my extreme workout session, which I do her
hot bod, my hot BD.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
Okay, so then we oh, so then Daniel comes through
and this is so this is what this is when
you know, oh.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
This show is different. Right, Daniel comes to the house,
he gets she reads his beads. Yes, she tells him
what's up?

Speaker 4 (38:45):
Like I'm on the phone with the crappy HMO. Like
we're dealing with real issues right right now, you know
what I mean. And it's not a finger wag and
it's not a you know or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
It's like this is the reality of most people, bro,
you know.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
Yeah, and two to again to to Silvio's credit, our
writer and our head writer and you know, brilliant man
and to Richard Sheppard, Daniel is also comes with his
own sort of baggage.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
No, he knows that he know, he knows that he
fucked up like and and and he knows that he
did her dirty in like such a nasty and hideous way.
And I think that, like, you know, the I think
that it's it's great that like we're talking about like
especially in the pilot talking about HMO, we're talking about
insurance paying what a day to day.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Paying rent, like I have to help my family pay
the rent, right, you know, I'm not you know, doing this.
But he comes through with, look, I lost a brother,
you know, and so you.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Immediately he is extremely sympathetic. And that's such a credit
to Silvio and to end to the way that Eric
maybe has played it.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
I think Eric really could have come off as such
a dude brow and such a.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Douche like weird finance bro.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
And there's such a sensitivity to him really like in
real life too, he had just had a baby, like
you know, I think Eric just really like we don't
give him enough props, but he just he did such
a beautiful job with that character because he really could
have been a you know, a two dimensional, just douche

(40:16):
and he really wasn't cutting dry stereotype rich white dude bullshit.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
He just wasn't. He's just kind of felt for him.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
But there was also like there was there is such
dimension to Daniel me, you know. And and as we
continue on talking about the first season, I mean, the
ways in which Betty and Daniel's relationship like grow like
ebbs and flows and grows and really flourishes is so

(40:45):
I feel like was and and if you're if you're
only watching the show for the first time right now,
you know that there's such such a beautiful friendship, like
they're just they're just really really like they're I don't know,
I don't want to say buddy, because I feel like
that that is I don't know, I feel like, but.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
I think there's also something for all of us to
learn from that too, is that you know, that's the
ultimate sort of like those two worlds colliding. And we
did we on this show, and by we, I mean
Terry and Silvio and Ben and like all of the
people behind the Salma, everybody who's behind the show really
understood that, like these two worlds can which is what

(41:26):
we're really missing in today's world is that there are
there is space and room for all of us to exist,
and so and we just and to hear one another
and to like understand each other's point of.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
View, and also to be able to to uh to
questions and happen and to have difficult conversations and and
and I think that that is what Daniel and Betty do.
That's right at the end of this episode when he
does come to the house, is that they do, in
fact have a very difficult conversation where he does where
he does owe her an apology, but she also doesn't

(41:59):
have text about what he's been through. That's right, and
so when she gets that context, it's also kind of
really informative for her. You know that he isn't just
some like fuck off, like dude, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
Like and then here comes the Prime Minister ash Christina,
who saves the day because she found Betty's idea for
the new ad campaign because Gina Garson's character hated the
first one, and so.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Christina ends up putting that on Daniel's desk.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
They make it, They pitch the idea. Jeina Gershon's character
loves it. My favorite thing. Also about Jena Garston putting
the cigarette on the table.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Why does she say at the end, make sure one
of them is by ding each other.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
And she puts her cigarette out of it, and all
the assistants were smoking indoors.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yes, that's something that we can also leave in two thousands.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
I suppose so.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Well, yeah, well but I did love it.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
But I I think that was her idea too, to
put the cigarette on you think.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I'm sure it was. I can't imagine that that's on.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
A question I'm going to ask her.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
So then we end up with the person's surgery where
Vanessa goes to see the serious persons woman. We don't
know who it is. Well, we're assuming it's Faye, right Summers, right,
But well we shall see.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
What we we we in fact shall see.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
But what I will say too about the uh the
Betty pitch for the for the Fabia cosmetics thing is
is another is another way that we are talking about
like women in such a reverence like reference like reverential
way on this show. Is that like you know, like

(43:50):
talking about motherhood, talking about being a daughter, talking about
like like all of these things that I just think
that are just so gosh, we just I don't know,
like I'm not even I think that's.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
Something that we can actually bring into twenty twenty five, right,
I think that was something six.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
That we can that we actually should be bringing back.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
Is that sort of sense of family and that sort
of sense of like it is the little things that matter?
Because wasn't that that was the vibe of the pitch, right?
It's the little things, yes, little memories that really matter
the most.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
You know, when we said that we were going to
try to have richurch Epherd on the pod, we don't.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Try on this pod.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
We make things happen.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
We are doers and we have made it happen. You're
welcome people.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
This is the visionary director behind the pilot of Ugly Betties.
This is creating the tone, creating the entire world. I mean,
this is that. This is the the.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Reason we have the tube, the reason we have the
vibe yes that we had yes was because of this man,
the king the icon Richard Cheer introduction.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Yeah, I mean I should always get that into actually
deserve it. You guys just travel with me.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
Yes, not only that, you can just sort of travel
with this clip.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Carry it along.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
That's right, just show it to anyone who asked, Man,
thank you so much for doing this.

Speaker 6 (45:27):
More excited to talk about this shows.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's so amazing. It's so amazing that I don't think
I've seen you in well.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
A billion years.

Speaker 6 (45:35):
A billion years.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, So, and there's so much to talk about.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
But I also I think what you need to know
going in to this sort of thing is that markin
Deltado has never watched the show. So we're doing the
recap with him, and it's as it's his first time
watching Wow.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah. Yeah, And I've seen I've seen the pilot, I've
seen the episode that that you do, yes, and I've
seen the very last So every Shady three I must
be strange, right, It's weird because I feel like every uh,
every time I look at myself on screen, I'm like,
it's just so far away now, Like, especially being in

(46:15):
the first season, I think it might get a little
weird if we, like you know, end up doing like
the fourth season where it doesn't feel as far away.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
But this is like a little kid, right, and so
it changes.

Speaker 4 (46:27):
Even just in the four seasons that we did, you
changed so dramatically from that a little eleven year old.

Speaker 6 (46:33):
It's also kind of a gift that you didn't see
it in a way because now you get to like
experience it. Yeah, and and like I'm sure your mind
is blown by a lot of time.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
I'm really you know, it turns out every every every
time that like we've talked about it, even just you know,
off the mic right is just being like, Wow, this
is a really good program.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
Actually really likes I like this.

Speaker 6 (46:59):
It's not bad.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
But I just want to like, you know, you really
did set like the tone for what the show ended
up becoming. And I just feel like we're just so
excited to.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Talk to you, honestly so much. But what did you
How did you get involved?

Speaker 6 (47:20):
Well, So I had done the very first TV pilot
I did was Criminal Minds, which couldn't be more the
opposite of Ugly Betty. But I had also made this movie,
The Matatorous, And so I had done Criminal Minds, and
I I signed a deal and they were trying to

(47:41):
figure out what the next pilot I would do. And
I remember so distinctly because I got sent six scripts
and my agent at the time said, do any of
them except Ugly bet No, And and I read all
of them and I'm like, but ugly, Betty's the best

(48:04):
one by like by leaps inbound, like it's never going
to get picked up. They the head of the network
doesn't like it, you know, all of this stuff, and
it was like this hard, and so they were trying
to get me to do this other product that did
end up getting picked up and ran for a season,
and I was sort of they were getting a lot
of pressure to do this other one with a big producer,

(48:24):
and I'm like, but I just this is it's like.
And then I spoke to Terry and I spoke to
Sylvia and Sema and they were I was like, oh,
you guys, this is the show. This is the show.
And I could see it so clearly, you know, I
could see the show just had so much possibility because

(48:46):
it had like real heart, but it also was funny,
and it had two different worlds, the world of the
office and the world of the home, and it seemed like, hey,
this is a And I was also like, I'd like
to see this show to watch. But you know, as
you guys, I'm sure have talked about the original show
that this is based on had like a supermodel playing Betty,

(49:09):
you know, but wearing glasses and so she would be
not attractive, you know, or whatever. And as soon as
I heard and America was already attached when I came on,
And as soon as I had that, I was like,
oh no, that's this is the only way that because
this is this is now there's a real person, you know,

(49:31):
and and and so it just became it kind of
became inevitable in a way, and Sylvio, Sylvia and I
just Sylvio and I just saw I to eye on
what kind of show and what tone because.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Tone is everything to this.

Speaker 6 (49:50):
Show and it was not like anything else on TV
because there was a camp element.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
I was just going to say, this, it's so campy,
but it's.

Speaker 6 (49:58):
There's a heart element like that combination was just not
around at the time, and so or since Sylvia and
I specifically just I remember very like I remember sitting
at the Farmer's Market starting to go through the script
and we were both like making each other laugh and
every time I asked a question, and I felt like
he sees the same show. And that made it so

(50:21):
much easier in a way because we were able to
you know, going into casting, going into design of the show,
going into you know, every possible thing. So well, we'll
get into many things. But but you know, when you're
doing a pilot, you're not only casting your cast, but
you're casting the look of the show.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I mean, the look of the show is so iconic,
it's such a.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Huge and that somehow we talked about with uh Mark,
with Mark Worthington about the design of you know, these
two disparate worlds, the Mode Offices and the Suarez Home,
and and that was one of the things that he
said was kind of towing the line between fantasy and reality,

(51:05):
especially in obviously in the Mode Offices, you know, and.

Speaker 6 (51:09):
What we wanted I was just what I didn't want
was to have the Mode Offices be this like bright,
amazing place and then we would get back to the
house and it would be sort of like, ah, that's
the house. It wants to be at the house. I
was like, if the house doesn't work, it doesn't work,
then it's an office comedy.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
And also like how many Latinos do you know their
house is like right.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Me?

Speaker 6 (51:36):
But I was like, let's make a house that we
that we want to spend as much time in the
house as we want to spend. So that was like
but you know, it can't be cartoonish. We have to
figure way to kick color and light and you know,
and when you're doing a pilot, you're on practical locations.
You're not building any sets. So we were looking for

(51:56):
this mode office for weeks because every office was just
an office, and so Mark and I and and we
would just sit there going, what can we do to
make this office interesting? Da? Da? And we were driving
locations people nuts, you know, nuts, And finally we walked

(52:17):
into this office downtown and it was It had the
orange things, it had everything that makes that set incredible
was there. And I remember sitting there with the DP
Vanya and myself and and and Mark and we were
like finally and like the Locations guy started like tearing

(52:39):
up because he's like he was like ready to kill
kill himself, kill me, take out everyone. He was so frustrated.
But we finally I was like, this is it, this
is this is it. And I remember, like Silvio saw,
we couldn't have been happier. And I remember being in
the van driving feeling great and then getting a phone

(52:59):
call basically saying we can't afford this, we cannot afford it.
It was just this and we all sat in this
car and this depression. It was because it wasn't like
we had a backup, right, and we've been looking everywhere.
So now we're like to start. We're trying to like
lift ourselves up and be like, well this on our office.

(53:19):
We could do that, we could paint the wall. But
we we we got it. We just fadway. We fought
for a lot of things like this was a situation.
Terry and Ben and Sylvia and myself and someone we
were united and trying to make this the best pilot
because honestly, we knew it was a risk. We knew

(53:40):
it wasn't a slam dunk. We knew the head of
the network didn't love the idea. So we're like, we
just have to be the best.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
We're the best they exact. I mean, I feel like
that's such a through line of the show.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
First of all, the fact that we got against all odds,
the people like you, people like you, people like Worthington
who were sort of advice. Everybody said like, oh no, no, no,
don't do this, don't do this, because Worthington had the
same sort of story.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
It was like, I don't like it was the story, and.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
It was the whatever it was about this show in
particular that we were able to get you, you.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Know what I mean, that you were the one and you.

Speaker 6 (54:18):
Find I think I've told you this thing about your audition. Hell,
but this is one of those things. This is like
I just got chills thinking about it. Because it was
a time when people were auditioning live, right, so it
wasn't on tape. It was like two people would come
into like a theater. It was such a weird thing
for television, but it was like a little mini theater.

(54:40):
And you know, it was already a lot of issues
with the head of the network, who like, if he
was in a bad mood, would not accept anyone, and
if he was in a good mood, he'd take anyone.
So it was like we were always like, yeah, can
we bring the people we like in today? And they're like,
yes today. And we had to bring in two people
for every part because they wanted to be able to

(55:00):
make a choice. But by bringing to people, we had
to accept that maybe our top choice wasn't going to
be their top choice. And if you're in a good situation,
you can make arguments for and usually get what you want.
But it wasn't a guarantee, and so we had to
bring in two people. And there were two people we
brought in, and you were the ringer. You were not
our choice. You were our second choice. Serious, hold on,

(55:22):
I'm gonna this is gonna make you happy, though. And
you came in and you gave the greatest audition ever
seen in my life, in my life, in my life.
And I was like, because I had been talking to Silvia,
like we can't we just she can't be it. We
have to use it. This other girls, she is it.
This is team. You came in and you didn't just

(55:44):
win the part, you own the part. And it was like,
oh well we're idiots and she's got it. And it
was like inanimates. It was like done. But it was
one of those great situations where like we were wrong.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Oh my god, my heart is literally pound.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
That is incredible. I never did I never did that.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
The theater thing, no, because you were in you were
back east.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
This was all in L A L. This was who
did I go up against.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
I love to hear that.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
That is incredible, but it's true. I mean, you're you.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
I feel like we were all meant to be.

Speaker 6 (56:21):
It was a very It was very much that. And
you know, this was a This pilot had that shining
bright light of luck. Not every pilot, but it was
just the right group of people at the right time.
I mean, so many things that are iconic with the
show just almost just didn't happen, like like that the set,

(56:44):
the set of Mode almost didn't happen. Betty's glasses, I mean,
we could not find those glasses.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Tell this, Tell this, because I don't think we've told
this yet.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
We took the glasses off our costume designer cat Field
and by onto America fair like three days before we shot.
I remember being like, no, that's it, sorry, we're taking
your classes. Like it was like one of those things
like crazy. Yeah. And you know, I just think that

(57:16):
sometimes what goes wrong is that people don't aren't communicating
the city. They want different shows and they don't know
how to communicate it. And this was a case where
if you got what this was and you were part
of this team, did you understood it, understood it tonally,
you understood it cast wise, and you know, we got
actors who could be funny but also found the reality

(57:38):
and the heart to it. Those things were incredibly important.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
I mean, I totally agree.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
I mean it's also I mean, it's just such a
testament to the kind of alchemy of the show is
that we all are still extremely close.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
I mean, like my best friend, I.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Mean so and all of us are still so very much.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
Yes, yes, like, but I think that that also lends
itself to like when you're you know, kind of everyone
being on the same page in terms of creating this world.

Speaker 6 (58:07):
And I just listen, it touched it changed television. So
to be part of anything that changes the culture and
changes like, it's you know, we've everyone's done other stuff
and had great experiences during other stuff, but this was
not only well, this was a success which never hurts
and fun, but also changed the culture and in a

(58:30):
great way. And to be part of that was you know,
really cool.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
Did you know that that was going to happen? Like,
could you sense that this was sort of going to
be the iconic thing that it was. I mean, there
had never been a lead of a Latin female lead,
little tiny little thing too like to your point, not
a supermodel, not this like you know, you know, just

(58:56):
this sort of incredible actress who was just a person
leading just.

Speaker 6 (59:02):
You know, the show doesn't work without America no matter
what we do. She was so brilliant from the first second,
and seeing her in wardrobe with the braces and the
thing and the glass, I was like, and then she'd
smile and You're like, oh my god, I love you.

(59:24):
I love you.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (59:27):
And I have to say this, this sounds ridiculous in retrospect,
but the more I heard that the head of the
network hated the show, the more I'm like, we're onto something.
That's because it's not We've done enough TV, and we've
done enough movies and we've done enough stuff that we
know when something's working and not working, and this is working.
So we just have to prove it to you. And

(59:47):
we did, you know we from the first test of
the edited show on, it was clear audiences just loved it,
you know what I mean that first test of the edit.
They test shows, right, so they took I don't know
if you remember this what I did. They tested the
show when we watched this audience watch it secretly through
two way mirrors, and they just loved it. And I'm like, well,

(01:00:08):
they're going to pick the show up, even if they
don't want.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Even if in spite of themselves correct.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
That was a thing that Mark Worthington talked a lot
about it making sort of that New York the vibe
of the New York of it all being such a
part of the show. I mean, what was that like
for you? Had you been able to shoot in New
York like that before?

Speaker 6 (01:00:43):
Shooting in New York is so fun. It is just
a crazy city and so like you get a huge
amount of energy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Just didn't you have some sort of like gorilla moments
too where it was like, we don't get we don't
have a permit, We're just gonna fucking shoot it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:55):
Yeah, that whole sequence for Betty is like walking the
Dog in Times. Squeeze montage is one of the best,
which they, by the way, stole completely in Devil Wear's
product complex literally to her walking the Dog. I'm like
that they literally stolen like less than a year after
our pilot. But that's only a compliment. But uh, except

(01:01:16):
I would you know, a big thank you? We did
we just we just you know, listen, it wasn't we
were we were there. There's a camera, there's thousands of
extras for free.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
What are you going to do?

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
You have an actor that no one really recognizes, so
like you could just I'm like cross the street and
like boom, and like someone cares. But by the time
they realized the care, I like that, you know, I
feel like that's a good, good energy of New York City.
But you know, listen, there's things that matter, like where
Betty's house was. I needed an elevated train so that

(01:01:52):
I wanted to see the elevated train. And this was
a big another one where the locations guy was going
to go nuts. I'm like, no, there's a part of
Queens that this and and this type of house that
would be there, and and it feels it's not too big,
it's not too small. It is it's the home of

(01:02:13):
people who are working, people who you know, And it
was that was like another one where we couldn't find it,
or they find the train but the wrong house, and
find the right house but no train, and we finally
found that so perfect, you know, and then of course
you're waiting for the train. That's like because you want
to get the shot of the train, and they're like,
you send a p a up to the next stop

(01:02:34):
and they're like, there's a.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
I mean one of the most one of the one
of my greatest memories from from the Pilot is shooting
that scene with Betty on the stoop with that because
they you know, they're so good.

Speaker 6 (01:02:55):
Had you done acting before?

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Hardly? I mean not how did we find you? I
don't know, like Mike, you did.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
It like you did the Chappelle Show.

Speaker 6 (01:03:06):
Yeah, Like I I'd been on a few things in
this level that not all children have.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Well I wish that I wish that I could, uh
which I could locate that right now, you know what
I mean. But they but then I remember in the
finale episode, like they read they redid it, like with
the same colors.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
That we were wearing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
And I just I remember being so nervous that day
because it was it was the most words that I had,
like what was was was speaking in the episode, And
I just have such a vivid memory of like recalling
how supportive you were, impatient you were in America as well,
because I think that now as as as a grown man,

(01:03:50):
I mean, I don't know that I would have the
patience for for children in the same way that that
that you did. And I just felt like just so great.

Speaker 6 (01:03:59):
I mean I would just say, like when you're dealing
with a kid who's who's doing a good job, Like
being patient is the smart thing to do, Like you're
doing a good job if you were, if it was,
if you weren't right for that part, then we had
miscast you right because a kid is a kid, right,

(01:04:20):
But you knew your lines, you you understood what the
scenes are about. You were trying to do it correctly,
and you were great. So like whatever, I don't know,
I feel like these are the good things, you know.
I've on sets where the kid is not great, or
there are two nervous that can't do it and that
or there's too much of a kid actor out of

(01:04:42):
their minds and a lot of that. Then is it's
my fault I've cast the wrong kid, you know what
I mean? Like I think, you know, sometimes when the
scene doesn't work, everyone's like, what's wrong with this? The
writing and the scene doesn't work. I'm like, the set
doesn't work right, something else, something else doesn't work. But
the writing we know works, but they can't. There's no

(01:05:03):
way they both sit on this couch and we've only
offered them this couch to sit on, and they like
so a lot of like a lot of work of
directing is thinking about those things, like what is going
to make this scene work on every level. I'm a
big fan of, like make sure the guy who's playing
the waiter who's putting down the plate of food is

(01:05:24):
looks like he'd be in a waiter in the restaurant
that they're exactly because if they don't, then the actor
is automatically sensing bullshit. And can I say.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
That are there are no rules.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
To that point? I mean, we had a huge cast and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
The way that I feel like we spoke about this
in the in the recap of the pilot, I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Knew who each character was at.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
The pilot, and I don't think I've ever watched a
pilot before since that that's happened.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Like every single one of us had a moment.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
Where it was like I know this person, but we
were so that person is fully real.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
But in the table reads, yeah, like that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
It was like that even before you know the glasses
and the braces and all of that and all of
you know, whatever are like accoutrement, was like before you
were dressed like Hilda, it was very clear that like
that's who you were.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
You were like you did one of the table reads
in a white sun dressed darling.

Speaker 6 (01:06:27):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
But it was it was like it was undeniable, like
who these people were.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Sorry, but I think I mean, was that difficult because
it was such a huge cast and each one of
us did have sort of it.

Speaker 6 (01:06:39):
Was a big cast, and it was a talented, talented cast. Yeah,
Silvio script, you know, which had been developed for a
long time and had the tires kicked of. It was
a really strong script. In fact, one of my comments
was the pilot feels like we're done. Like I was like,
this could be just done, Like it feels like a

(01:07:01):
movie if we added thirty more minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:07:04):
It's like she gets the job, she gets the thing,
the boss likes her, like things are like wow, the
house is saved or whatever. So everything got worked out
and I was like should we should we be doing this?
But but but the good news of that was that
it also felt like the characters were so rich it

(01:07:27):
didn't you know. And and and clearly Sylvian and his
writers and the producers saw the rest, they saw all
the future that can happen. But they're like, oh, yeah,
these characters can just keep going, which they did for
you know, really strongly, for four years. It never felt
like anyone wasn't we could have gone longer. We could
have gone we could have gone longer.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
Did the did once once the pilot was done because
there was so much sort of.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
You know, push back against sort.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Of show as you've mentioned, I mean it was it
was surely not at the top of anyone's list.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
So I test people watched it and liked it, But
did the did the network finally?

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Like did they ever? Were their notes?

Speaker 6 (01:08:09):
Were?

Speaker 5 (01:08:09):
There?

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Was there still push by?

Speaker 6 (01:08:11):
We didn't get a lot of notes. I mean, the
pilot was too long. Back in the day when you
just did network TV, I'd be very specific. I remember
in the edit room with Terry Weinberg and Sylvia and
the editor cutting frame. There was a shot where these
birds fly up in battery when a park near downtown,

(01:08:32):
and it was a gorgeous shot and it started super
wide and came in tight, and we were like, we
need to be like forty two minutes and thirty seconds,
and we were like forty two minutes in thirty four seconds.
I'm like, a right, I'll trade you half a second
of birds fly like it was like the most amazing
things that you have to do but.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
I can't the Cheerios commercial just before.

Speaker 6 (01:08:56):
Second Yeah, exactly exactly. I mean it was so crazy.
But you know, even after they picked up the show,
they were like, we're gonna put it on Fridays. They
didn't want the title Ugly Betty. They wanted it to
be Betty.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
The Ugly, you know, which is wild.

Speaker 6 (01:09:15):
And there was all this feeling of like, we don't
know what we have, we don't know what we have.
But the fact was we did know what we have,
and I think that like a number of good strong
forces at ABC also knew what they had. So it
was and so maybe the top person maybe did or didn't.

(01:09:35):
I don't actually know at that point whether he came around,
but I think people around him did come around. And
then the press got around it and it became a
story because nothing like that had ever been on TV,
no one like America had ever fronted a show, and
it pulled off a tone that had yet to be

(01:09:56):
done on television. All of this became a big story,
you know, and then you know, nothing succeeds like success,
Like everyone at the ABC's like we always knew this was
going to be. This is always this is always success,
Like the agent who was like, do any show, but
this is like I always told you should have done this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Show, right, Nothing succeeds like success. I love that. I'm
going to start using that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Did you did you watch like after the pilot? Did
you watch this?

Speaker 6 (01:10:28):
Was? This is For a long time, I wouldn't do
any other episodes of a show other than the pilot
because I'm like, pilots are this blessed, beautiful thing in
which you have a lot of time, a lot more time. Yeah,
really developed the characters for herse and talk through every
single thing, and and regular television week two week is

(01:10:50):
is not that And there's a lot of pleasures in
that too. And in retrospect, I probably made a mistake.
I think it might have been fun to keep directing
on that show because it was so much fun. But
for whatever the reason, I didn't. So I watched like
the second episode, I was like, oh, there, we're in
good hands. It's gonna be funt it. And it took
years before my stepdaughter was like, I want to watch

(01:11:11):
a show, and I'm like, well, let's just start watching
every Betty. And we started watching it and watched all
four seasons, you know, eating popcorn and watching it and
it was like the greatest bonding thing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
How old was she then?

Speaker 6 (01:11:25):
She was like, I want to say eight.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Or nine, you know, and that's when my daughter age.

Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
Four and loved it. And there were a few things that,
you know, certainly that were like what what's going on here?
What's what's she doing under the desk? But that is
there were definitely some there were definitely there was definitely
some questions, but it was great and for me kind

(01:11:50):
of a little bit, I guess, like you, market was
like I was removed enough from it to be like
I just fully enjoyed it, and I remember like I'm
texting you and texting America and Sylvia like the show's
really good and not Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
Okay, So in wrapping up, since we have you here,
not to put you on the spot or anything, but Ben,
we're all obviously keen on doing a sort of a
limited series reboot. We're all desperate to do it.

Speaker 6 (01:12:16):
Every single one already offered to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
Okay, good because Ben Silvan came in here, we didn't
have to ask he emailing. I know, it's a lot
of work and there's a lot of hurdles that we
have to jump, but I think, you know, Ben Silverman
was already like emailing, uh, you know, Disney to sort
of get on the board.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
So you're in.

Speaker 6 (01:12:34):
I told America that if I was asked, I would
be there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
We are, We're we're back in a hundred.

Speaker 6 (01:12:42):
We're getting people wanted. There's not even a question, No,
not even a question. There's so many story more stories
to tell, so many, And you guys are like, I
know there's a man sitting I don't know what happened.

Speaker 5 (01:12:59):
Yeah, gay, very gay gay man, very gay man sitting
right here before.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Before we go.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Though, I do have to say this to Richard that
when I was watching it back, just a funny thing
that I was just.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Like the gayest kid in America.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Like that's the only thing that I have consistently said
every episode that we have recapped.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Was like you no one like you on TV.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
I'm not saying that it was. I'm not saying it's
a bad thing. I'm just saying that I was great.

Speaker 6 (01:13:31):
But again, it was like these choices were like, this
is what's going on? Yeah, exactly, the brothers gay, great,
moving on exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
I remember, but I remember I remember America saying that
in an interview, like you know, how does it feel
to you know, the first Latin And she was like
it's great, you know, first Latin family. But she was like,
I'll be really psyched when they just asked me what
it's like to play this character. Doesn't have to have
to be a Latin. You know, the fact that we're
doing this it's amazing, but like this should be normal,

(01:14:01):
This should be a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
And by the way, hasn't happened since so.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
And it's and it's not I mean, but also even
even in like the even in.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
The queer spaces, like you know, like there's.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
It's got to be like niche and or or that
you're like pigeonholed into like you're you're there's still like
the trope of like sassy gay x right, you know
what i mean, or like flank here, you know what
i mean, living in the Yeah, like be the funny
gay one. And it's like, by the way, I'm more

(01:14:34):
than happy to be the funny gay one.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Well you are, well, but I also a career off
of this.

Speaker 6 (01:14:40):
There's a lot of people are risk averse in general
to doing anything that is it all. They're just scared
about everything like, so it's whenever you can get something
through the system that is made with individuals, not a
corporate point of view. So Sylvio from the beginning very clearly,
so all this family and this work world, he personalized

(01:15:05):
it to many of the things that were in his life,
and he entrusted the creation of it to a group
of people behind and in front of the cameras, who
who who agreed with and wanted to only enhance what
he wanted to do, and because of that individuality of
him then spread out with a lot of people created

(01:15:26):
that you created.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
That also took a huge risk with the with the novella.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
Yeah, I know, I said it was real last question,
but like now I'm remembering because the novella did.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Come into it a lot. In our stuff, the novella
and all like shooting that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:39):
Those talks a lot about the differentiation of the kind
of fantastical nature of the world and the camp nature
of like the actual world that you were creating, and
then having to heighten that even more for the novellas.
And so yeah, that was that was something.

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
That I mean, how is that to shoot just because
it is you know, I mean, like you're a white
guy should a novella and it was really perfect.

Speaker 6 (01:16:03):
Well I was, she said very clearly. It's like when
actors act on a telenevela they act for all three cameras.
And as soon as she said that, I was like, oh,
well then please very distinctly act for all three cameras.
So she does her thing and she looks at all
three cameras and it was like, what am I I
don't have to do anything. I mean, I knew we

(01:16:25):
created a great set. We got it was a perfect
little scene. She was dressed perfectly, and it was you know,
it was so you know, and we had three cameras going,
so it actually was so didn't there were three came
so that we could get that three camera look. But
it was great, and you know, it helped to have
her tell, you know, well, yes, you're actually it's like

(01:16:50):
the most perfect thing in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
No question. But it did.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
It did go throughout and it was it was excellent
every single time that conceit of having the novella come
into it, it was to.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Me and that was something that lived, Yeah, that lived,
like starting on the novella and like that that and.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
It was so specific to me.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
I mean, I grew up in a house where the
novellas were on to you know, volume e levin all
the time, you know, in the house, and it just
was and it just it rang so real through the campiness,
through the craziness, through all of it. That was a real,
really beautiful sort of like touch and tribute to us
I think as a community.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
It just was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
It was just a great thing to see because it
was just so normal.

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
Like you said, it was just like he's watching his No,
that that's what you do, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
So we are.

Speaker 6 (01:17:44):
Wait, we waited a little bit for hair and makeup.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Oh on that. I know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
This is not a question that we were going to
ask you. What I'm gonna ask you. Anyway, The first
scene that America shot was that photo shoot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Yes, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
So that's crazy to me because that's a huge scene.
Her shoes, I can't imagine. Was it because of Vanessa
was coming in late?

Speaker 6 (01:18:05):
Well have you talked about the Vanessa?

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Yes, oh yeah, but we've gone in.

Speaker 6 (01:18:11):
I mean that was a situation in which.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
You know, when she did the table read and she
read it like this I'm gonna do Daniel, You're not
going to be the editor the magazine.

Speaker 6 (01:18:22):
It was such a it was this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
I was like, what have it?

Speaker 6 (01:18:26):
It was so so the actor who was a cast
because basically we were told we should cast her because
it would make the head of the network happy. It
was really bad. You know, she she's been good in
other things, but she was really bad and she wasn't
going to get any better. And I got really scared
because I had all these visions of how the show

(01:18:48):
should look. And then I'm like, oh, but I'm going
to have to shoot her like you shoot a dog.
Not that she is a dog, no, no, not saying that,
but how you shoot it dog, which is that you
have to shoot it in close and maybe there'll be
a moment where and it will work. And I'm like,
but she's the bad guy. Like the show only works.

(01:19:11):
Die Hard works because Alan Ridman, it is the greatest
bad guy. But we can't have Lassie be the bad guy.
It can't happen. And and and it. It became this battle,
and I remember they they don't the studio didn't want
to replace her. There was all this politics because of
the head of the network. Sylvia and I were freaking

(01:19:33):
The f a yes, And in my recollection, the way
it happened was we had several expensive locations at the
beginning of the shoot, some of our most expensive locations,
including like the dining room at Mode and the I
forget what it was, but several of the most expensive ones.

(01:19:57):
And we were shooting on film back then because it
before digital hello, and we had to send that film
from New York to LA to get developed to then
be brought to daily, So it would have been two
to three days before the network saw the day. And
once I realized that, I realized they're going to fire

(01:20:18):
her after they see her, but we'll have shot three days,
so we're gonna have to reshoot all of her shit,
all of this, which is going to be so expensive
because there are three most expensive locations. And I finally
was like, you know what, I'm sick of talking to
the creative people about replacing her, and I went to
the financial people and I'm like, I literally was like, guys,

(01:20:42):
this is three and fifty thousand dollars. You're gonna have
to redo again. You're just burning this money because on Wednesday,
when you see these dailies, you're firing her. And that
got her replaced and Vanessa flew in literally arrived I
think it early morning. Yes, went to set. We had
cute cards because she had just got in the script.

(01:21:02):
I think upon getting off the plane, you know, and
shot that big boardroom scene was her first scene. But yes,
we did shoot that scene at the photo shoot early
and one of the reasons we did was that I
like to start with something incredibly challenging because I feel
like it ups the ante for everybody on the crew.
Like you do it, you finish it, you feel great,

(01:21:25):
You've like really proven yourself, and you're also explaining to
everyone this is how we're gonna work. We're not doing
the easy roll. We'll do the more complicated.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
About this life lesson.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Really, I think that is so that is so profound, That.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
Is profound, That is actually and also setting.

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
The standard of like what it is that that you're expecting,
like the quality of work.

Speaker 4 (01:21:47):
And I mean for America that that was a real
it's hard for her, but you know what, I.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
Think that honestly like, yes, it must have been hard
as your first day, but honestly, like the way that
she had to kind of emote in that in that
scene in terms of her embarrassment and humiliation and just.

Speaker 6 (01:22:08):
Go for it. Listen, you're gonna have to get it.
And she had it in her. It was clear she did.
I mean, it was clear from moment one of meeting
her that she was she was an actor who was
going to deliver. And so it was you know, and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Even Eric Eric had such a moment too.

Speaker 6 (01:22:23):
Eric, Yeah, it's an easy day.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
I mean, he had a whole scene where he had
to like sort of be this dick and then he
had to like have that regret and that you know, realism.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
I mean, it was such a brilliant scene. And I can't.

Speaker 4 (01:22:35):
Believe that that was the first scene you started with,
but hearing your philosophy that that is kind of brilliant,
and you're right, it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Well, we're in, We're in, We're in, y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
This is it. This is the trip we're going on,
this is our journey.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
And even starting with something that like is you know,
obviously technically a really like hard scene to shoot, but
just such raw emotion to kind of start there and
then be like, we have a lot of fun stuff
that we're doing to you know, this was kind of
like the kind of emotional crescendo of the entire episode,
right is like when she that, it's like, no, but

(01:23:11):
we're going to do a lot of fun stuff and
like funny stuff too.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
You know, well, you are a king among men, You
are a creative genius.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
You are the puppy Chulo to are to our show.
You are the big Zaddy.

Speaker 6 (01:23:25):
One of the great experiences of my life. I couldn't
be more excited to see you both, Uh Terry, and
to feel part of of something that you know, has
stood the test. People are still talking about, still.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Talking about it. It has changed television.

Speaker 6 (01:23:40):
I can't wait to be on set with you for.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
The Get ready, it's happening.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
No, it actually is happening.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
It's not a when it's as I was like, it's not,
it's not ever.

Speaker 6 (01:23:54):
It's amazing Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
But we love you, We charged you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
We're so lucky you are ours and you know, I
really thank you for coming in you and talking to us.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
This is it was incredible. We even got a little tea.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
I know we did get a lot of it. We
got a lot of tea. What do you mean a little.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Okay, thank you? So guess who we have coming up next?

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
An Academy Award nominated actress.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Not only that, but a Golden Globe winning.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Amy Award winning winner, America Ferrara.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
She's here.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Our monkey is coming onto the pod.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
A monkey says, stay tuned for next week of Viva Betty,
because you're going to get the full tea. Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
Viva Betty is a production of Propagate Content in partnership
with Iheart's Mike Waduda Podcast Networks.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
We are your hosts On Ortiz and Mark Delacato.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
Our executive producers are Terry Weinberg Linley and Diego Tapia.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
Our senior producer is Emily Carr, and the show is
directed and edited by Mark.

Speaker 4 (01:24:55):
For more podcasts, listen to the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows