Episode 28: Nets Assistant Coach Royal Ivey

A late bloomer on the way to a city championship at Cardozo HS, Royal Ivey found his niche on the defensive end as a four-year starter at Texas and turned that into a 10-year NBA career. Royal got the most out of his ability and as a coach he's determined to help the next generation reach their potential.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, what's going on. It's Chris Carino. This is the
voice of the Nets podcast today. A really just wonderful
conversation with a person who you just can't help but
want to spend time with. Whenever I see Royal Ivy
around the arena, just a smile comes on my face.

(00:33):
And I once talked to somebody and we were talking
about people living with disabilities and various issues in your life,
and he said, you know what it really comes down
to you? Are you the kind of person that people
want to spend time with? You think about it. That's
what it's about. Right at the end of all these interviews,

(00:53):
I do the Jimmy Valvano thing where I say, you
know what makes you laugh cry? Think there's something thing
that does that for me all in one package, and
that is to me, what's considered one of the great
TV shows ever made, and that's Ted Lasso. It started
with a premise of here's a college football coach who

(01:15):
then goes to coach a English football team. So it's
like kind of like you think it's a one joke
kind of deal, and I went in watching it thinking
that's what it was going to be, and then when
it turned out. You start watching it, you realize it's
got all this heart and drama and it's funny as
all hack. But it also makes you think about a

(01:37):
lot of things. And also what it points out is
the coaching profession. What it says about coaches. And I've
gone through this now with being in the NBA for
three decades and seeing various coaching changes and who makes
a good coach and who makes a bad coach A
lot of times. Yes, there are there are elements to

(01:57):
it that are x is and oh was and theories
and players, but it really comes down to a coach
is there to motivate people. And that doesn't mean fiery speeches.
Some guys are quiet motivators. Some guys are loud motivators.
Some guys do it by making you think or laugh

(02:18):
or cry. But it's about motivating people to be the
best that they can be. When I interview Jacque Bond
before every game, I know that I walk away from
every encounter with Jacques a better person. I feel I'm
in a better mood. After I talked to Jacque Blond,

(02:39):
the author John Gordon, who's a motivational author. He writes
these books and one was about the energy buss, and
he talked about there are certain people that are energy
givers and then there are energy vampires, and there's a
lot of people I think that are in between. You
don't want to be an energy vampire. Will you suck
the energy out of the room. The greatest coaches are

(03:00):
energy givers and whatever method or whatever personality they have.
Jock Vaughan is an energy giver. Royal Ivy is an
energy giver. You'll get a really good sense of his
background and maybe how he got to be that way
with this interview, um I learned a lot about Royal

(03:22):
and also the fact that he was not this heavily
recruited basketball player in high school. That really he came
to Basketball League, it wasn't his reason for choosing his
school and end up going to play a cardos with
rond de Clario. He worked for everything he's had, and
he had a lot of things out there that he
could have done and could have gone after, and basketball

(03:43):
was the thing that he did. He's going to talk
about what it's like to coach superstars and how maybe
they needed more than anybody else. His time with Jock Vaughan,
his time at Texas what it was like the guard
Carmelo Anthony in the Final four, and just you know
what it is to be on this staff with the
Nets and what is his day to day responsibilities are
so a lot of a lot of really good stuff.
Enjoyed this conversation. I hope you do too. And you're

(04:06):
also gonna get your origin of his name, by the way,
so here it is Royal Royal Ivy with me Chris
Carino here on the voice of the Nets. Are your
a football fan? You're looking forward to the games today?
Um My, g man out? So yeah, I'm I'm a
watch but I'm definitely you know, I'm a fan of football,

(04:29):
So I'm gonna watch for you know, just to watch
another game. But I have no um no pieces in play.
I am just so glad that the Cowboys didn't win
last week because then I think I might not have
watched the Eagles Cowboy game for sure. I'm definitely not
a Cowboy supporter, and I'm diddo with that same kind

(04:49):
of fella. I'm not interested in any cowboy or cowgirl.
Um activity, well, Cowboys Eagles to go to the Super
Bowl is just something I just don't want to perience.
I don't. I don't want either one of those teams
to go to the Super Bowl and it would just
be a well, I'm actually playing for san Fran. San
Fran because Santahan I went to school with him, so um,

(05:11):
he was a wide receiver while with Texas and you
know he's a he was a good dude while in school.
So wow, I'm pulling for Kyle and the forty nine
is So as we record this, we don't know what
happened yet, So when people are listening to this, there
may already be a super Bowl matchup right now. So

(05:31):
Shanahan was you went to Texas with? How do well
would you know him was here? You know, it was
a good acquaintance. You know, we didn't hang out all
the time. We're in the same similar circles. You know,
he was tight with Chris Simms. I knew Chris Sims,
Roy Williams, so you know we ran into each other
throughout the years. I wouldn't say it was like, you know,

(05:53):
one of my best budds, But did you ever think
like this guy could end up being one of the
best coaches in the fellow one day? Whoever? Don't think
about that. We weren't thinking about that. What you think
about our next mail? So you know, UM, but for sure,
you know he definitely one of the you know, best

(06:14):
football brains out there. You know, as of today, you know,
one of the best coaches. UM, and he's doing uh
a great job in San Francisco. So I think you ever,
do you ever reach out to UM? I haven't, you know,
I should. I have a lot of resources that I
don't really utilize. UM. I'm not. Uh. I think that's

(06:36):
my weak point on just like utilizing my resources and
reaching out to people and people, so UM this new year,
I think I have to you know, tap into those
resources and you know, you know, hit hit my outlets.
I think with your personality number one, that surprises me

(06:56):
because I think you're you're such an outgoing person, UM.
But also I think you have a humility about you
that maybe says I don't want to bother people. Is
that part of it? No, for sure, it's definitely you
get locked in. I think I have blindness on especially
during the season, and just the bother the bother some

(07:18):
you know, the worst some like you don't want to
be that person calling asking for this, asking for that,
you know, it happens day to day in my life.
So I don't want to be that person and um
my fallback and you know, I just let people be
where they be and and and stay where they stay.
So um, I gotta work on that. And that's just

(07:39):
the human element of you know, going through life and
experiences and better in yourself. And you're focused. I know
your coaches, especially assistant coaches, are just so focused on
the next game or your next scout that you can't
think about anything else. I mean, for sure, you're watching,
you're watching a lot of film, you know, me having

(08:00):
more responsibilities watching more film, Um, I definitely get locked
in the film. You know, at home, it kind of
gets on my fiance's nerve, like I'm I'm watching I'm
waking up watching film. You know, I'm rewatching Edits and
it's just habitual now and it's something that I love
to do. And you learn new things and new nuances

(08:22):
throughout watching films, so you get locked in and then
you gotta find that balance. And it's it's been it's
been a it's been a struggle, I must say, but
you know, time management is the key and just going
through it and learning from the experience is definitely helping
me out on that element. How do you watch it?
Do you do you watch film with a notepad and

(08:45):
you're scribbling things or is it just at any time
you can get a chance you're watching it just goes
into your brain somewhere. I'm watching it, I'm rewatching things.
I definitely have a pen, I have a notepad. I
take notes. Um, you know, when I see certain things,
I clip, So I clip, um when I see certain

(09:07):
things and they go into a disorder, and then I
just create disorder throughout you know my process of what
I like, um, you know, stealing place, personnel, you know,
all of that sorts. And it's just like habitual of
me just taking you know, certain actions, the frequencies. Um,
you know, if they're tweaking the play and they're running

(09:29):
a little bit different, So I'm just looking at everything
from you know, a bird's eye view, a different vantage point.
And you know that's just how I kind of break
it down. And and on this staff, is it, uh,
how many assistant coaches are working on the scout of
the next opponent. It's it's different as you have your

(09:49):
defensive scout and you have your offensive scouts. So one
guy's you know, hammer and the offense. One guy's hammer
and the defense. But we're both watching games five outs,
so you know, as the season goes on and you
might have a scout in between, you might be watching
ten games at a time. So it's definitely time consuming,
and it's you're watching a lot of film and you

(10:10):
get locked into just that team certain times. So I mean,
and then you gotta watch the game that we played,
you know, um prior previously. So um, it's a lot
of film watching. So it's been good. So it's not
because I know, like in the old days used to
be with where there were you know, three assistance and
they would get every third game. So you guys, are

(10:30):
everybody's on on the same opponent or is it like
you have an opponent coming up in two days. Yeah,
I have different opponents and it switches, and it's just
not like rotating on a three you know clock, um
guy rotation. It's like I have certain um teams and
those are my scouts and when they come up on

(10:53):
the calendar, you know, I'm knocking them out on the
defensive end. So um, it's been definitely a pleasure. And
then it's been an eye opening. So you're you're you're defensive, yeah,
coordinator so to speak, or yeah, assistant. Um. And that
goes back to your time as a player. And we're
gonna get into that a little bit first. Let's let's reset. Now,

(11:14):
let's go back a little bit. So the first thing
that's on my mind when I want to talk to
Royal Ivy is the origin of your name or you
have such a regal name. It's spelled like royal r
O y a L instrument royal. Can you give me
the background of your name? Well, that's that's a great

(11:36):
question because people would always ask me, you know, your
name looks like royal, but it's pronounced royal and it's
it's a meaning behind that. Um. My grandfather his full
name was roy Allen Um. So my mom and my
dad and both artists, you know, and then you know,
the outside the box thinkers they came up with, coming

(11:59):
putting it together, just making it royal um, and that's
how they got royal. My my, my grandfather was the
first African American um stage director and television at CBS.
His name is Royal and you could look him up
in the the Actors and Film guild. Um, he'll be there,
and um, I guess it's just coincides because you know,

(12:22):
he was the first pioneer of you know, his field,
and I'm going down a different realm. And that's how
my name came about. So it's a combination of roy
Allen to get royal. It's royal for short. What was
the things that your grandfather did? Like? What was what
do you want? Uh? What? I think? One show was good, Um,
Morning America? Good Uh Sunrise films. I gotta get, I

(12:46):
gotta get the names. But he was a he was
a manager. He was a stage manager at CBS. So
um for for a long time, for over thirty years.
And point is he still No, he's no longer alive.
He's this He passed away in uh ninety four, So

(13:09):
it's been a war. Yeah. Yeah, I was a teenager
at the time. Did you ever get to come on
the set or go see him at work or anything
like that? Now, A funny story, My dad used to
work at CBS. So his job he used to put
the commercials on. You know, they had somebody with all
the rails and the libraries and he ustd he you know,
his job was to you know, kind of have the

(13:32):
scheduling of what commercial goes on on what time, and
he kind of did that for some years. So my
grandfather actually got him the job. But he no longer
works day. You know, he's a freelance artist. So, um,
little kind of artists. You said your parents are both
artists with birth artists. Um, um, black and white, conceptual. Um,

(13:55):
they do some abstract, they do a little bit of everything.
So uh, basically they're like they're out there now, how
many brothers and sisters. I got a younger brother. It's
just me and him. So he's five years um my junior. Um.

(14:16):
And he works with uh he works with mental uh
mental uh kids at risk. Um. So he basically works
at group homes. Okay, so now you're so your parents
were artistic, and I guess your father worked at CBS

(14:38):
to pay the bills, right, and um you were you
were born in Harlem, but then you guys moved to Queens. Yeah,
how old were you when you made that move? Wow,
your baby, you're going you're going deep. Um. So you
go in depth here in the Voice of the Nets.
So I lived, I lived um in Harlem to about

(14:58):
the the tender age of nine, and then we moved
to Hollis, Queens. So my grandparents I bought a house
in Hollis my mom, so I grew up in the
same house my mom grew up. And so my grandparents
were leaving. They were moving to Clinton, Massachusetts, and they
decided to, you know, sign over the house to my mother.

(15:21):
And you know, I was raised in the same house
as my mom and Hollis Queen. So that's that's pretty
uh unique, you know, to be raised in the same
house as your mother. When they take a Hollis I
think a run for Shure, run dmc ll coo j
jar Rule and Royal Ivy had. A couple of good

(15:44):
players have come out of Queens. Oh Lloyd Yeah, ma
Oldham raight for Austin. We can go down the line.
Kenny Anderson, Kenny Smith. You know, the list goes on
and on. A you know, great basketball minds, great basketball
players to come out the great Earl Queens. Did you
I know I knew this about you. It was tribute

(16:05):
that you were actually a NET fan. Kid funny story
yet that for sure, UM from New York was never
a fan of the next Um I was always a
fan of the Nets. The Kenny Anderson, Kevin Kevin excuse me,
Kevin Kevin Edwards days. Uh, drowsing on that team, I

(16:30):
think drowsing Derrick Coleman, Um, what's my guy? Uh Dudley,
Chris Dudley. Yeah, that team so a little bit. Those
are the Tide Eye uniforms. And I remember my dad
taking me to my first net Net game and nobody
was was in the arena. You know, you could basically

(16:52):
sit anywhere you wanted. And then he became a season
ticket holder. Funny true story. Um, you know, they did
all the whole transaction over the phone, and he was
supposed to pay for you know, on these tickets and
he never got to the point up paying for the tickets,
but we still got to go to the game, so
he might owe. Then that's some money. But the Statue

(17:15):
of limitations having like ninety three so um. I definitely
was a fan of the Nets. Kenny Anderson was my
idol growing up. I wanted to go to Georgia Tech.
He was. He was a great player on the New
Jersey Nets. You know, I watched him with Steph watching

(17:35):
with Jay kid Like. I was definitely a fan of
the Nets growing up. You know, going to the games
and supporting. I talked to Kenny Uh for the podcast
and and we talked about that year uh where he
ended up getting hurt. Remember John starts takes him out
and he breaks his wrist. I think that was the
ninety three and man, that team was really good and

(17:58):
they hit a slide after he out heard and they
ended up dropping to the four seed and they lose
to Cleveland with Uh with Doherty and Price in that group. Man,
that was such a great one. Wasn't he all star
with the Yeah, Derek and Derrick Coleman. Uh, Kenny was
he was? He was, Yeah, he was thinking big three.

(18:19):
You know. That was a heck of a big three.
That just man just snake bit right and they were
kind of yea, so definitely a team. Yeah, that was
your team. Now you you go to uh, you go
to play for ron N Clario or Cardoza High School? Yeah? Uh?
Was that? Did you have choices or was that just

(18:40):
your local high school? Well that's that's the story. So
my local high school is Andrew Jackson. I was my
own high school. And my mom was like, there's no
way you're going to Andrew Jackson. Um so um, oh,
auditioned to getting that Benjamin Cardoza through the dance program.
So I got into the dance program and yeah, it's

(19:04):
a performance it was you know, it's a performing arts
school and it's math and science. They have a law
program is pretty good. Um. And I got intrough the
dance program and I try to drop out of dance
my first year and my mom was like, no, you're
not dropping out of dance. That's how you got into school.
So I ended up dancing that car those for four years. Um.

(19:29):
What kind of dancing. I did, modern, jazz, tap, ballet,
a little bit of everything. I performed you know, um,
and it went well. It helped me with my flexibility
and my my my agility and my you know just
moving literally. Um, and playing for the clara was different.
You know, I didn't expect that. I didn't expect to play.

(19:50):
I was gonna play baseball. And one of my one
of my teammates, Melvin Robinson, he went to St. Peter's,
was like, just come and try out. And my freshman
year I tried out and I got cut, like the
last cut. And then my sophomore year I came back.
I grew a little bit and I made the team
my sophomore year, but I didn't really play um my

(20:13):
sophomore year. But then junior, Yeah, that's when I really
you know, started to play more and game on confidence,
had my hike, you know, started to kind of make
a name for myself throughout the city where you were
younger before high school? Were you, uh standout basketball player

(20:33):
or not? No? I wasn't a standout basketball because I
did everything else. I did you know, jiu jitsu, I
did uh baseball, I did basketball, ran track, I played tennants.
I did a little bit of everything. And then I
kind of prior round ninth grade, I started to like
really zero in on basketball, you know, and that was

(20:55):
my pathway. You know, I almost didn't play basketball. I
was if I made the baseball team, probably wouldn't be
talking to me right now. Well, it's amazing to me
that you you know, a lot of people just assume
that basketball was your route to Cardoza, but it was not.
It was dancing. Yeah, then got you into the school
and you were going to school not to play basketball.
You're going because your your your mother thought it was

(21:17):
a great school, right or a better school than your
options were. Yeah, for the academia. I was going for
the academia, not for basketball. So and and you know
the Cardoza has the legendary and he's an eccentric man
in Ronda in uh In Ron de Clario. Um, he's
won more games than any high school coach in New

(21:37):
York City. And you're one of his prized players. You
know that has come out there and it almost didn't happen.
He wouldn't tell you that, but I probably was like
the dominant the rough like, you know, he didn't recruit
me to go to Cardoza. I wasn't playing to you know,
play it was. It was no kind of structure build

(22:00):
for me to you know, basically be a part of
that program. It just happened by you know, by faith,
like it just happened. And yeah, you know when you
had to work to get there. It doesn't seem like
you know, you're you got cut your freshman year, sophomore year,
you barely made the team, like you must have had
to really develop your game to get to where you are. Yeah,

(22:25):
I think I'm I'm overachiever in life. You know, people
say I couldn't do this, I couldn't do that, wouldn't
be here and I just laugh at him every time
and put my head down and go to work. So um,
that was my you know, my mindset, you know in
high school. Just I'm gonna continue to work, I'm gonna
get better. Um, I want to play. I enjoy the game,

(22:48):
and the Claren was a great teacher, and I thank
him for you know, taking his time and really you know,
explaining and show me the game. And I fell in
love with the game, you know, throughout that process. So um,
he doesn't get enough credit for how he interprets the
game and how he teaches the game to his you know, students,

(23:10):
because it's a game, you know, just like life is
a game. Basketball is a game and you gotta learn
through experience. But you also have to have great mentors
and great teachers. And he's one of the aggressive, one
of the best I've ever been around. You know, at
any level. It seems like you had a lot of
interest and you had a lot of paths maybe that

(23:31):
you could have pursued and put that mindset to work.
What was it about basketball in that situation that made
it that became the path for you. I guess basketball
gave me out and gave me out. When I was
on the coy, it was like a sanctuary, like nothing
else mattered, and the game was so pure. Um you

(23:53):
you got to get away from all your troubles, all
all the drama, all your trauma through the game about basketball.
So that was my my gateway, you know, just to
step on the court. And you know, that was the
way I was an artist on the court and then
and I was free. And you know, it gave me

(24:14):
those liberties. And that's why I love it so much
because no matter what is going on in your life,
when you step on between those lines, you you you
have some kind of freedom for that time, right. I know, KYRIEA.
Irving would always talk about basketball it's like an art
form and I know that. You know, it has a scoreboard,

(24:34):
so you know, people really care how you get two
points as long as you get to two points. But
there is a creativity about it. And you know you
talked about being a jazz dancer. There is a looseness,
There is a connection with your teammates. There there is
an art artistry to it that will end up resulting
in success for sure. It's art from I mean, well

(25:00):
your painter, like it's a blank canvas and you get
to draw or see or perceive it too how you
see it in your mind, and nothing is wrong. It's
all subjective of how I internalize the game, and we
all internalize it a little bit different, but it's definitely, uh,

(25:21):
it definitely has an art form, a big art form.
You know. Watching these guys work on their games on
a daily basis is their art form. They start with
the basis, the foundation, and then once they tweak the
foundations and and and and bring it up, they go
into different realms with it, and it's beautiful. It's beautiful

(25:41):
to see these guys develop and to see these guys
work at it on a day to day basis. You know,
the masses only see the end end product. We deal
with the day to day. We're in the trenches every day.
You know, perfectiveness or progressing this product, you know what,
let's jump to that. I was gonna say that for later,
but let's jump into it now. You were you, you

(26:04):
were a developmental coach um over the years, so you know,
let me, let me, let me, let me put a
pin in that. We're gonna come back to that because
I don't want to I don't want to skip ahead
to get I want to I want to fill in
some of the blanks though before we get there with you,
because I spoke to Glenn Breka recently, the head coach
at St. Francis College, and yeah, and he said that, Um,

(26:26):
coming out of Cordoza, it had come down he was
recruiting you. And it came down to he he thought,
between St. Francis and Marist, and you chose uh prep school,
you know, so you chose neither. Uh, and then you
ended up going to Blair Academy, right, and then that
got you to Texas. Uh. I guess that was another

(26:50):
step in you know, that makes sense to me now
knowing how late you kind of got going in high
school in basketball. And I graduated that graduated at seventeen,
didn't re class, so that I guess that's my re
class But um, I had I had later interests later

(27:11):
in my senior year from bigger schools like Bu was
probably one of the finalists. Marris was definitely a finalist
with who he's at St. John's Now, I can't um
oh man making he's an assistant coach at St. John's.
He was recruiting me at at Marison. I was I

(27:31):
was on a visit. I almost committed my call home
to my my my mom, and I was like, I'm
I'm going to Marris and she said, no, you're not. Um,
you didn't go on all your father your your visits.
And you know, I was a late bloomer. Um. I
went to work out with n Clario and um, the

(27:53):
Pitts head coach was there watching me. Um ben right, yeah,
he offered me late. But I already gave Joe Montegna
at Blair Academy. My word, I was coming to Blair.
So I went to prep school for a year and
got the privilege of playing with Lull Dane, you know,

(28:14):
and got a year older, year stronger, quicker, faster, whatever
you may say. And then schools like George, I mean
Georgia and Clemson and all Providence, these you know power
fox schools started coming and in my head out I
always wanted to play in the Big East, you know,
but it didn't work out that way. Um, north Western

(28:38):
came in the picture with Kevin O'Neill and I was
going to take a visit there, but my sa T
wasn't high enough because the academia was, you know, one
of none, and prehaps school definitely helped me out going
to Blair Academy, playing for Joe, you know, just getting
building a confidence, just getting stronger, just learning the game,

(28:59):
learning myself, being in a college environment of college setting.
So my mom thought I was a little bit immature,
and that's why I went to prep school, not for
the basketball, but for my majority. It sounds like mom
had a big influence in your life, like every every uh,
everyone's in my life. But man, she made some good decisions.

(29:20):
And mom is an educator, so I come from a
lineage of educating. My grandmother was an educator, my mom
was an educator, My other grandmother was an educator. And
actually my my degree was in elementary education at Texas
so well, and and at Texas you got to play
in the final four, which you know, no offense to

(29:41):
marriage to Northeastern or b B you or or St.
Francis College. I don't know if you would have gotten
that opportunity. Definitely, mar I was a big fish in
a small pond. I mean I was a small excuse me,
I was a small fish in a big pond, and
I was comfortable would going to Texas being at small

(30:02):
fish in a big pond and you were a two
time All Big Twelve defender. And I guess you know
when you're talking about you know your your your offensive
numbers didn't jump off the page. Same thing when you
went to the NBA. But it sounds like the way
you approached everything in your life, the work ethic, overachieving

(30:22):
kind of mentality. That's where it helps you on the
defensive end of the floor. You may not always be
the greatest skill shooter offensive player, but you can always
dig in on the defensive end. Was that your mentality
going to Texas? For sure? You I mean, in this
game or basketball, you gotta find a niche. And I
found my niche early phbah in high school. Even though

(30:44):
in high school I scored a little bit more and
did a little bit more. But when I got to Texas,
I knew my niche and I said, I'm gonna be
a defender, you know, and try to be a lead defender.
And it worked. You know, I just out work people.
You know. I had a mentality like I wasn't gonna
be phased. I would run to a wall. I was

(31:06):
gonna sacrifice for my teammates and do whatever I needed
to do. On that and and it worked. I carved
out a year. I called out a career in the NBA.
It worked, and go to that that that final four
though two thousand three, you guys are one seed and
you end up losing the Syracuse in the semi your

(31:27):
garden Carmelo Anthony, Right, I mean that's the assignment you draw.
I mean there might. I mean Carmelo Anthony's one year
at Syracuse might be one of the great seasons of
in of a college player in n c A history.
He had the greatest run. He ran through the whole
Big twelve, you know, like and then he ran through.

(31:47):
We were a number one seed in Kansas, was the
number one seed. Two on the other side, they beat us.
I remember guarding him. He had his career high against me.
You could check the books, but he was only a
fresh when I was a junior. And we joked about
it because I coached Camelo and okay, seem that I was.

(32:08):
I was trash talking to the whole game. And he
didn't say one word to me. He just smiled and
just gave me bucket after bucket after bucket, and like
I'm six four, he's six a six nine he just
shooting over me, going around me, just using his footwork.
It was impeccable. But like that, that was a heck
of a run um, you know, for Syracuse and Carmelo,

(32:32):
and I just remember him just just NonStop buckets. I mean, listen,
you were, you were trying your best, your six four
garden Carmelo, and I mean he was shooting over everybody
in the country, not just you, getting buckets out, everybody
in the country that year. I thought I could rittle
him though, but it didn't work. The trash talking end up,

(32:53):
you know, nipping me instead of nipping him. So uh,
I used this when I when I introduced Sean Marks.
Sometimes at different events and things that I'm speaking and
I'll say, uh, here's a guy who played the fewest
amount of minutes in the most amount of years in
NBA history. And and I say, I don't mean this

(33:13):
to be disparaging. I mean it shows you, uh, the
kind of teammate that he was, the kind of person
that you wanted in the locker room because you're not
playing out of minutes, but you last for a very
long time. I think you have a kind of a
similar NBA career where you know, you put together ten
years in the league. You played in some good teams,
you had some good teammates, um, but there was an

(33:35):
intangible about you that I think went beyond what you
contributed in your numbers. Uh is that accurate to describe
your NBA career? Yeah, I would consider that very accurate.
I would consider myself a glue guy connector I could.
I could talk to the best guy on the team,
I could. You know, typically I was the last man

(33:57):
on the fifth team man roster, and it teetered it.
You know, sometimes I play, you know, sometimes I didn't play,
But you know I had a spirit about me like
I was always, you know, grateful, and I showed gratitude
to be a part of it because being in the NBA,
it's a privilege, you know, and it's so much entitlement

(34:22):
that I was thankful to wake up and to have
basketball as my job. So every day I walked in,
my tallenge was how can I uplift the next person?
How can I push the next person? How can I
expire the next person next to me? And I didn't
look at myself. I looked at outside of myself to

(34:44):
connect my teammates to the goal at hand, whether it
was an okay, see trying to get win the finals,
whether it was on a you know, Milwaukee team, just
trying to connect the dots. You know, I was willing
to make that sacrifice. And and it's hard, you know,
being you know, in that role. You know, you have
to be a chameleon. You have to be you have

(35:05):
to be able to adapt. And I learned how to
adapt through the years and and and find a way
how to make a team and find a way how
to make a ross and find a way how to
help this young guy and get through this year and
uplift him. So it was definitely a challenge. Every year
it was a new challenge. You know, how can I

(35:25):
affect the team in a positive light. What was your
favorite NBA moment as a player? Ooh, it's a lot.
I mean going to the finals, getting drafted. I mean,
I I gotta you know, sit down and really internalize that.
But just being just being a part of the journey.
And you know, I look up and I played ten

(35:47):
years and I was like a kid from Hollis Queens.
Nobody ever gave me a chance to ever do this,
Like you know, I'm the putting me of overachiever, underdog.
You know, if I could do it, I feel like
anybody could do it. You know, it's just like the
determination and just the mindset. The mind is very powerful.

(36:08):
Whatever you set your goals and you're aspirasing your dream, right,
I'm the living product of you. Just gotta keep on
pushing through. You know you might not like it. You
gotta get through the minutia. You just gotta keep on
pushing and pushing and you know you can get to it.
And that's what I did after a game recently. Jacque

(36:32):
Vaughan uh talked about you are what you're what you
think you are. You know, you are what you put
into your mind. Yeah. I read a book by James Clear,
a Time of Habits, and you talk about you know,
you know the book right, and just uh, you know,
if you want to be a certain kind of person,
then tell yourself that you are that kind of person

(36:52):
and then your decisions and your actions will follow. Yeah,
we manifest our own destiny. So whatever whatever thoughts we manifest,
we become. So your thoughts are very powerful and people
don't think that. So you gotta be careful with your
words and your thoughts, and you gotta servish those and
hold those there because what you what you think, you

(37:15):
manifest and that's that's the truth. That is a real truth.
And I I agree at the utmost, like we gotta
be careful with our intentions and how we think you're
you're The way you described your playing days, it was
it sort of was that kind of a natural transition

(37:36):
then to being an assistant coach, and especially the way
you started kind of being a developmental coaches and assistant.
It seems like a lot of the things that you
were doing as a player are things that you would
then end up doing as a developmental coach and working
with players. Yeah. I think that's just on top of
my personality. That's who I am as a person. Like

(37:57):
I think I'm very personable and you are. Um, I
just like people. I like I like all kinds of people.
I like learning from people. I like engaging with people,
you know, I like having conversation with people and seeing
how people are that mental, you know, you know, how

(38:17):
they think, how they fail. Like it's just diving deeper
and and and and learning that person that ends and out.
You know. It's just like we're all connected, we're all one.
You know, and we gotta help each other and we
gotta pick pick each other up. And that's the developmental part,
is I like, the developmental piece of not just the player,

(38:41):
but the person on and off the court. We get
so caught up with the concept of all developmental coaches
they just you know, work out guys. No, it's more
than that. It goes way deeper into that because you
gotta learn that person inside and out, how that person ticks,
and you know what that person and doesn't like with
this person weaknesses and strengths, And we gotta develop the person,

(39:06):
not just the player. You know. We gotta get intact
with that person's heart and you know what he's been
through throughout life, you know, and you got to dissect
that person. And that's how you get the most out
of your players by learning the person first before the player.
I can tell how passionate you are about that because
you're you're literally pounding the table. Yeah, I'm passionate about people. Man.

(39:30):
We give up on people, uh, you know, way too early.
You know, we all flowed as individuals, and you know,
the beauty about life is his love. Like we we
gotta show more love and empathy towards each other, you know,
to like build. Once we have that, we could do whatever,
We could do whatever, and it's in its life and
this human body form. He've been connected to really great players.

(39:55):
I mean obviously Kevin Durant. Now you're coaching Kyrie Irving. Um,
this approach you're talking about. Some people think that maybe
the great players, uh don't necessarily need coaching, but what
how do you how do you approach developing players that
are all time players and helping them get better they

(40:20):
needed the most mean because people look at these guys
as megastars, but they're human beings, like that's at their core.
So I understand that good players, but good players go
through go through it. You know, they go through pain,
they go through uncertainty, they go through um, they gotta
pay taxes like they go through anything a regular person

(40:42):
has to go through. So you know, we we put
them off to the side, we hold them on this pedestal,
but they suffer the same things as a normal person suffers.
So you gotta be intact and and and help them
navigate through through through life, you know, um, off the

(41:03):
court things, you know, setting them down when they when
they're going through something and having real talk, you know,
and challenging them, you know, saying no, we need to
do it this way, you know, all collaborating with them
and asking them their input on certain situations. So it's
all a collective you know, and just you know, having

(41:25):
that connection on a day to day basis, you know,
as a as a human versus just the basketball aspect.
It just goes way deeper. You went through a coaching
change this year, which is always traumatic on the staff,
and you're you're you're you're stuck around and you're with
Jacques Um. Your your personality is a lot like shock

(41:45):
in terms of, Uh, you light up a room. You've
always got a smile on your face. The things you're
talking about are very similar to, I think to what
Jacques is all about. What have you, um, what have
you learned from this experience and being with Jacques born Um,
I learned a lot. I mean, I'm I'm learning every
day like this experiences is one of none. Has been

(42:08):
a great experience, you know. Definitely to work for a
guy of j VS, you know, stature. I think he's
very humble, his approach to the game, how he communicates
his player's day and day out, that's a big thing.
You know. I think he's great at that. Um. The
humility is is at an all timeline, but the accountability

(42:30):
is definitely there. Um. Just watching them, just the intricate
ways how he moves the room, UM, how he's engaging,
how he's passionate, how um he's detailed, um, and how
he doesn't get rattled. There's no situation too big for him.

(42:53):
He's always poise, his poise, his delivery, you know, his
his his calmness. It's very direct, he doesn't he doesn't
waste a lot of time. No fluff. I call it
no fluff. He's no fluff. He's very direct, but um

(43:14):
with intentions. He's very intentional. Um. And it's definitely some
that I haven't had in my career to this point. Um.
And it's something that I would definitely right on my
notepad because I'm taking a little bit from each coach
that I work for or play for, and I'm coming

(43:36):
out with my own theories. You know, how would you
know if I was in this situation, I would do
it this way or I would do it like you
know Billy Donovan, or I would do it like you
know um. Uh Scott Brooks, you know, so it's just
like you're taking bits and pieces from everybody. But j
v Um is definitely um high character, high i Q

(44:02):
basketball mind, and he's definitely right to the point and
you know what this team needed. You know, it's a
definitely different but it's a breath of fresh air. And
he's done a great job, you know, up until this point.
It's definitely. And what I admire about him too is
that I think you know, I'm sure his his UH

(44:22):
theories and the technical expertise has grown over the years.
But I knew him when he was playing for the Nets,
and he and now I deal with him every day
before a game. He's the same guy. He's the same person,
you know what I mean. He hasn't become like this
Joe coach or he hasn't changed. He's and I and

(44:43):
I and I think that's a lesson for anybody that goes,
you know, into this business. Be authentic, authentically, you be
organically you like I can't be j v I can
take some of his philosophies, but I can spend them
my way, and and that's what he's learned to do.
You know, he worked for Pop and he takes some

(45:05):
of the nuances of the popism, but he makes it
the j v ism. So be authentically, you do it
the way you see it fit and like that's what
makes them so great. Like the way he delivers everything
is him is he's not being outside it so so Um,

(45:27):
that takes a lot of humility. What is ultimately what
are some of the goals you have besides this winning
the next game and working with the players? Now, I
would imagine you won't be a head coach at some point.
What it would you like to do that on the
college level? Would you like to do it in the
NBA level? Um? You know, I actually got a few

(45:50):
reps you know with South students. Yeah, I wish. By
the way, there, I think they're eight and one. I
think you're you're in a position to qualify right for
the twenty three World Cup. Yeah, we're one game away
from qualifying. Um. The window is next February. Play against Senegal,
UH Congo who had Jonathan cominga this summer. We beat them,

(46:14):
UM and UH Egypt, who was a tough team, so
we wouldn't one of out one out of the three
games we qualify to go to the World Cups. In Japan,
I think Philippines and yeah, the first first time for
the country. Um, it's definitely been a learner experience, has

(46:34):
definitely been a joyous experience, has definitely been a humbling
experience being in that seat and just learning on the fly. Um,
it's head coaching in my um in my future. Who knows.
I'm I'm gonna just play it out and let the
tips forward they may. You know, before i was hiding

(46:56):
from that kind of title, but now I'm open know towards.
If it's an opportunity for me to sit in that seat,
then UM, I'm gonna do my best and do my
due diligence. So UM, we'll see. I would imagine that.
You know you mentioned they with South Sudan. I almost

(47:19):
feel like that's the next Like there's gonna be world
power in basketball start to come out of that continent
because I think it's just been they haven't had maybe
the resources. Uh. And you've see now the NBA playing
these Africa games, and there was a Paris game recently
and Adam Silver talk with President mccron from France and

(47:41):
they included how they were going to support teams in
Africa and NBA Africa. UM, and I almost feel like
we're we're really close. Maybe one great player too away
on one of these countries. UM, that puts them into
the world power kind of the way you know what
Luca did for Slovenia or you know something like, I
think that Africa we're very close. Um, the resources are

(48:07):
not there yet, you know. UM. In South Sudan, the
president just um basically put in a pack to build
facilities for the South Sudan national team girls, I mean
men and women. So we'll have the first facility. We'll

(48:27):
have our own gyms, will have our own dorms, will
have you know, basically our own living quarters for these players.
And these these players are playing outside you know mind
you you know, UM, when no facilities, no equipment, and
the game is growing. You know, people are now seeing

(48:49):
what Bobo can do. The South Sudanese you know, UM,
the Thinker tribe is one of the tallest, is the
tallest people in the world. So now you know, you
have this kind of talent coming out. It's incredible. I mean,

(49:11):
once once we tap into this, it's it's gonna be
astounding because it's a lot of talent out there in Africa.
That has been untapped and now it's it's starting to
you know, be tapped into. It's gonna be, it's gonna be,
it's gonna be extraordinary. How did how did you get
hooked up coaching? Um? Little things? We played in um

(49:37):
Blair together. Yeah, we have a good relationship. He was coaching,
he's the president of the federation, and I reached out
to him. We had dialogue, good communication, and he agreed that,
you know, I was fit to coach the team. And
then it just took off, you know, coaching in euro

(49:58):
I mean Afro basket and then in these couple of
windows and we're putting together something special, really putting together
some special because, um, the game is changing. You know,
the game is being played at a different pace. You
know a lot of skillful players um in Africa and

(50:20):
now we just we're moving forward. I saw when he
came in to Barclay Center this year just for a
land I mean I've I've seen him over the years
and I didn't know if he would ever get to
that level. He was electrifying. He can do everything. You
can put the ball on the floor, he can shoot,
he can pass, he can he can Yeah, hopefully hopefully

(50:45):
we qualified for the Olympics. So I'm putting that out
in the universe, manifesting my destiny. And you know, you
see again how you uh, We're going back to how
we started talking in this interview about your relationships people.
I mean, think about the impact you had on lu
All dang Um comes back to you at this point

(51:08):
in your career where he tabs you to coach South Shitan.
They see, that's life relationships to everything. You know. I
didn't know twenty five. I'm telling my age but twenty
years ago that lou All dang and Uh will be
friends to this day and building up this African powerhouse
in South South Sudana. Like I didn't know, but we

(51:32):
put in time, were putting work together. We have a
genuine relationship and we grew it. And you know, you
never know what your relationships will take you. You know,
you always be kind to people you know and and
treat them in utmost respect and you know, and and
help him and lou All helped me. He used to
get me up at six o'clock. I was a senior,

(51:53):
he was a freshman, and I knew he was gonna
be an NBA pro because of his work ethic and
he was talented it. But the fact that I wasn't
getting up at six o'clock and I was seventeen year
old years old. He was fourteen years old. He was
waking up at six o'clock and he had that discipline,
and that taught me a discipline at seventeen, you know

(52:14):
that you got to put in the work and to
get the results. It doesn't just happen. And so we
built this great relationship and it forces through the years
and now we're here, you know, helping other people. But
we're helping people, and this life is about service, like
what you do for others. Like, we don't get to

(52:34):
where we are by themselves. People help us. So if
I can service somebody and help them get to the
next point, then I'm doing what I'm called upon the duke.
And that's that's that's problem. We don't get to where
we get to a life by ourselves. That's that's number one.

(52:55):
I love that. When when jacque Bone won Coach of
the Month the first month he gave this a now
Algea's press conference, he said, it's like a friend texted him.
It's like if you see a turtle on top of
a fence post, you know one thing. Yeah, he left
him up, Yeah, and climbed the fence. He was sure,

(53:19):
we all need help, man, we all need help. And
I end these things all the time by by talking
about one of the great college coaches and one of
the great characters. And we've talked about coaching, and we've
talked about characters on the show here, um, Jim Balbano.
And then never give Up, you know sp speech that
he had. I've always thought that that was I always

(53:42):
felt like that was important in my life to hear
that kind of stuff. And that's something that I lived by.
But he had, he had something we talked about living
a full life. He said, every day you should do
three things. You should live, you should laugh, you should cry,
and you should think. Um the last part of it,
what may Royal Ivy laugh. I'm I'm always smiling, you know,

(54:05):
I think I'm I'm the life of the party. So,
like I said, I used to dance, so you know,
and my and in my in my primitive years, my
early years, you know, I would always be dancing and
you know, you know, starting to riot and and you know,
just doing fun and quirky things. But I still kind

(54:29):
of you know, bust a move every once in a while,
you know, get people like, oh, I didn't know you
could dance, you know, or do a little break move.
You know. The team Nah, havn't this. Maybe after this
episode comes out, somebody might listen and may ask you
to dance in front of the team. I mean, but
nowadays they don't dance. You know, I was breakdancing. They

(54:50):
you know, they got all these kind of TikTok dances,
so it's all like redundant. You do this move, you
do this move, and it's like kind of like coreer graph.
You know. I'm more freestyle, free flowing dancer, like you know,
just bust out of move whatever I feel like I
feel like doing. So that makes you smile. You can
watch somebody dancer. Yeah, yeah, it's entertainment. So you know

(55:16):
I always I would always dance. So you know, I'm
always cracking a joke. I'm I'm pretty loud and you
know I'm I was spoken. So you know, I'm always
cracking on somebody or laugh laugh. I do. I make
people laugh. That's how that makes me going. That keeps

(55:36):
me going. I know, whenever I walk by you in
in an arena somewhere. You make me smile, so I
appreciate that. I appreciate it did though the cry part
is not necessarily Uh something sad that makes you cry,
But you have your emotions moved. What is it that
gets you emotional? Maybe it's it could be something. Maybe

(55:59):
it's so in your herd or a movie. You're a
person that you talk to. My daughter, My daughter has
my heart. She sickx um, that's my wife, that's my reason.
You know, she's basically the the girl version of female
version of myself. You know, when I look at her,

(56:21):
I see you know, I see me, you know, and
she gets me emotional. You know, just seeing her grow
into the person she is today. UM, just loving, full
of love and you know, full of hope. And you
know that gets me emotional because you know, um, um

(56:42):
investing into another human being and trying to grow her
the right way. So that gets me emotional. The day
to day just interactions with my daughter, UM, because I
co parents, so it's a little bit different, and I
don't always get to see my daughter. So you know,
the times I do spend with my daughter, it's just

(57:02):
like I'm so thankful, but also yet um, she drives me,
she motivates me. So my daughter is my true inspiration
and she's my emotional flicker. She she she could get
me teary eyed. What's her name? Her name is lyric Lyric. Yeah,

(57:24):
lyric Ella Lely. I love that name. You guys had
such great names. Yeah, I mean, I guess I got
to keep it going. But by the way, I wanted
to ask you this from about the name. So after
the movie Pulp Fiction came out, how many people I
got a lot of nicknames. So Royal with cheese is

(57:47):
definitely Dave Fizdale as sistant GM with you know, Utah Jazz.
He you know, he was my player development coach in
Atlanta and I worked with work for him or work
with him with the Knicks. He would he would always
call me cheese, you know, because because of that movie.
So some people call me cheese, some people call me smoke,

(58:09):
some people call me roy Like I got all these
nicknames for people who don't know is in in uh?
In Pulp Fiction? Uh? The Don Travolta character just come
back from Europe and he says, oh, you know what
they call a quarter pounder met royality? Yeah, royality so
one of my nicknames is cheese dude. That one I

(58:34):
knew somebody had thought of that. Uh. The think part
was always if you you know there's the oculus outside
Barkeley Center when you walk out of the subway station
or you're walking into the arena for whatever event, how
many tens of thousands of people will see this? And
if you could put a message up there that you
want everybody to think about, Uh, just something you want

(58:55):
to get in people's heads, something that maybe means something
to you, you want to pass along h to think about.
That's the sink part. What do you think he would
be if I now I can put something my slogan, anything,
picture of phrase, whatever you mean. My quote would be,
take nothing for granted, always be humble. Right. Um, I'm

(59:19):
I'm I'm privileged to be in this position, and this
is this is temporary, this is not my position. I'm
going in this position for this this period and then, um,
I'm passing along. Somebody else will hold this position. So
I'm always grateful and I show gratitude to what came

(59:39):
before me and my present moment. And presently I'm in
this position, but I know it's temporary, and I will
pass it along, and that's what I will hold there.
Two people, take nothing for granted, always be humble. Royale Ivy,
that was fantastic. I really appreciate you doing this. Thanks

(01:00:01):
so much. Man. I appreciate you're having me on the show.
Thanks a lot. I've always liked Royal Ivy and just
that the small times that I've talked to him over
the last couple of years or whatever. But I like
him so much more now that I've had this conversation
with him, this hour long conversation. Um. Tom Dowd joining

(01:00:24):
us right now, are our producer. I know you're you're
doing extensive work on this, uh you know Brooklyn Basketball podcast,
And Um, he is an unlikely story Tom, as far
as you know great players that have played in the
NBA at a Queen's um, there's certainly a lot bigger
names that never had the kind of, you know, the

(01:00:45):
longevity of a career that Royal Ivey ended up having. Yeah,
he's a great guy to have on the show right
now because you know, we're highlighting some nuts staff, but
he also kind of ties into that New York basketball history,
that Brooklyn basketball history we're talking about, and and It's
funny when you look back at Brooklyn basketball in that era,
because he graduates Cardozo and you know Brooklyn High School hoops.

(01:01:07):
It's kind of that period in between the Marbury era
and and the Telfare era at Lincoln and around the city.
You've got guys a couple of years aldoing him. Um,
you know, lamar Odom comes out of Christ the King
Ronald Test comes out of the Sale. And I'm covering
a lot of high school basketball in New York City
at that time. And yeah, there's a lot of guys

(01:01:31):
with a lot of hype, and a lot of them
went on to nice college careers and maybe they played overseas.
But this guy who as a senior Cardozo is getting
recruited by the Northeast Conference and the MAC. He's the
guy that goes on to a tenure NBA career, And
I think that tells you so much about the person. Yeah,

(01:01:53):
that's it. He's in He's playing in the Final four.
And and that one year a prep school what it
did for him and at laun tim from it, like
you said, getting recruited by an EC teams to end
up at Texas and going and playing in the Final four.
He could show you sometimes you know what development means
and if you're not. You know, his mother knowing that

(01:02:15):
he wasn't mature enough to go to college at that point,
and then taking that extra year and what that could
mean to somebody, it's all that mix, right. Like he said,
he's he's young for his class. He was seventeen. He's
a guy who got a little bit of a late
start because he was a guy who was interested in
so many other different things. He talked about, you know,
maybe he was gonna play baseball, and if he had

(01:02:37):
gotten that route, who knows, maybe he's a major League
baseball center fielder. I I don't know, but he uh,
he and his family knew the right thing was another
year of development and and it just opened up a
ton of doors form. It's inspiring and it's terrifying sometimes
to think of the little small decisions you make and

(01:02:57):
what it could lead to in your life. The road taken,
the road not taken for everybody, and it's it's you know,
it's funny when you look back at it. It's it's
okay to think about those things, but you never want to,
you know, have regrets about those decisions are kind of
no waste too much time thinking about it. I could
go the other way too. It could end up, you know,

(01:03:18):
you pause on something or you're going in a different direction,
it ended up being worse off for you. But um,
but really enjoy talking to Royal Ivy. I think of
so so I always we always end these things in
the post game show about things to watch and things
to listen to that relate to the episode. I gave

(01:03:38):
you the ted Lasso thing in the beginning, but more
along playing on the name Royal and Queens. I think
of two things in the watch category. I think of
I think if when you're the when you're a prince
in Zamunda and you want to find a woman who
is worthy of being a prince us, where do you go?

(01:04:02):
You go to Queens and coming to America. That's one,
And I think of the I think of Doug heffern
In and Carry heffern In and the King of Queens,
which I will say as a as a when people
talk about there, they're guilty. Pleasures. Started during the pandemic.

(01:04:24):
I discovered King of Queens on TV Land every night
from eleven day, like six episodes in a row, and
it has become then the thing that I watched were
just a little mindless entertainment before I go to bed
every night. Do you have any other things or do
you have anything to add to that? T D. I mean,
if we're talking about Queens, you know, growing up when

(01:04:46):
you and I did maybe the Fresh show that pops
into mind and just all in the family, right, archie
from Queens. My grandfather was a bit of an archie
bunker and and and musically, I mean, I'm not even
gonna you know, there was a band called Queen obviously,
um Kings of Leon, which is a really good fan

(01:05:08):
There's Lord who had the song Royal, not royal, but
the song Royal. And I I'll throw out a song
recommendation for everybody. You know. I love Frank Turner. He
has a song called God Save the Queen. I'm sorry,
not God said the Queen. God said the Queen is
the sex tressels happen long lived. The Queen is the
Frank Turner's song okay, which is not about the Queen.

(01:05:32):
But it's a it's a it's a it's a song.
It's a it's a poignant song. But anyway, we digress,
or how about um three Princes, which was that Princes
two Princes by the Spin Doctors. Yes, the Spins. Yes,
there you go. You know, I stumbled into a live

(01:05:52):
show of the Spin Doctors, like a couple of years ago,
because they're still around and uh, the actually still pretty
good it. I was taken back one day. You know,
sometimes you get a follower on Twitter. The lead singer
for the Spin Doctors followed me on Twitter. Really, yeah, Chris.
We just Chris something around it. We we were just

(01:06:13):
going to a Brooklyn ball thing, me and me and
some my next teammates in the marketing group, and you know,
I just kind of looked up at the poster and
see the Spin Doctors and then I see that it's
like that night's date. And I said to my guys,
I said, the Spin Doctors playing here tonight. He said,
I guess so we thought up there from six because
I said to him, I said, I once saw the

(01:06:35):
Spin Doctors like in a gym in Syracuse, New York,
in like and before I could finish, he's just like
stopped talking. I don't mention the day. It was a
long time ago, um, but it was a fun little show.
T D tomed out. Thanks buddy, thanks for setting us up.
He's our producer. Isaac Lee's our engineer. I want to
thank the great Royal Ivy for joining us and also

(01:07:00):
a part of Tom's upcoming series about Brooklyn basketball podcast
will touch on royality. He was mentioned a couple of times, right,
and that's definitely all right. So, uh coming up, um,
we've got you know, football, super Bowl coming up. Brian
Baldinger is gonna be joining us before the Super Bowl
his life and everything, and also we'll we'll talk a
little super Bowl. Why not right before the the the

(01:07:21):
big game. As we can say, hopefully there's no cease
and desist. We can't use the term. Uh. Thanks Tom,
Thanks Isaac, Thanks everybody. I'm Chris Carino. Thanks for listening.
Please subscribe and we'll talk to you next time on
the Voice of the Nets.