September 17, 2024 • 23 mins
What's the next step for Cam Thomas? Tim "The Capper" Capstraw and NetsDaily's Lucas Kaplan join Chris to discuss how Thomas can build off a breakout 2023-24 season.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, what's going on.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's Chris Carino and this is the voice of the
NETS podcast as we are coming to you after a
lengthy off season doing a series of podcasts here that
are going to spotlight the players that we see, you know,
guys that were holdovers, guys coming into training camp that
we want to get a closer look at. And I've
(00:31):
assembled a dream team today. Of course, my longtime partner,
what are we beginning season number twenty two?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I believe together.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Maybe twenty three, twenty three The Kapper, Tim Capstraw.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
It's been a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And then somebody who I don't Capper might not have
been born when we started working together yet, but he
has brought a fresh perspective. His film breakdown on all
the nets digital media outlets has been just fantastic. During
the offseason, he's with nets Daley. It's Lucas Kaplan.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Hello Lucas, Hello guys, thank you for having me. And yes,
I was born, but I won't say how long I
was born when you started working together, So.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Let's just say though you probably weren't glued to your
TV in the two thousand and three NBA Finals when
Caepern and I were working together for the first time.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
If I was, I probably didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I didn't remember. Gotcha, gotcha? Maybe you were.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And maybe that's how just the NETS fandom just just
buried itself.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
In you at that.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Maybe maybe that was the genesis point.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, what is Caeper and I. Our stories are
out there. We've talked to each other million times. Lucas,
what is your background as far as following the nets
and then joining up with nets?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Dally?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, well, well it was really, at least consciously the
post finals era teams. I was five, six years old
seven Vince Carter gets traded. That's a just unelectrifying team
to watch. You can imagine as a young kid how
fast they played all the highlights and from there NETS
fandom was rooted inside of me, and it really wasn't
(02:23):
until I got to college and to college I just
started tweeting, blogging my thoughts on the Nets on basketball
in general, and people seem to like it. And the
great Bob of NETS daily Fame and some other stuff
in the past, but most notably of course NETS Daily
Fame reached out to me started writing for him, and
(02:45):
hopefully it's been an upward trajectory that I can keep
continuing and all opportunities. I've been given a rite talk
do video about the Nets. That's what it's all about,
So I can I guess, thank you guys, Jason Kidd,
Vince Carter, that era and the Nets have been a
big part of my life ever since.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
In that order, I believe it is.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
In that order, it's Carino, Capper, Jason Kidd, Vince Carter.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Where are you from, Lucas?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I'm from New York City. I'm from Manhattan, and
for a while, I was the only Nets fan that
I went to school with, you know, deep in the
heart of Nick's territory.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
But you stayed with it, and it worked out pretty
well for you.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I stayed with it.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
You think back to the mid aughts and think about
what team was more fun to watch, and you see
how I came to this point in my.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Life already, Capper, we can see Lucas and his vocabulary,
his wealth of knowledge, and the fact that he used
the word oughts.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm I got a source next to
me right now.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah. So we're doing this this podcast. Basically, Lucas did
a lot of this film study break down, and we
thought it would be a good idea to kind of
do that in conversation for and have a conversation about
some of the guys we see as keep players going
forward who were left over from last year's team, And
I thought, Hey, what better way to start it off?
(04:14):
As we're recording these we're doing this first. We don't
know if our producer, Steve Goldberg, will will rearrange the
order at some point, but the place I wanted to
start was probably a guy who I think has been
the most polarizing of in terms of what people feel
(04:35):
about this player, and I think though it's starting to
be less polarizing and less polarizing, and that's Cam Thomas.
I think I will include myself as one of those
people that Cam has won over. And I don't mean
that I ever doubted he was a terrific basketball player.
(04:56):
I think we all knew his potential offensively was through
the roof, but I think his ability to do all
those little things that critics kind of pinpointed as to
why he couldn't be a star, a guy you.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Can build around.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I think late in the season last year, if there's
something that came out of that latter half of the year.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Cabr.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think it's the fact that camp Thom has proved
to us that he's more than just a one trick pony.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I mean I have the same sentiments. I remember talking
about that quite a bit throughout the season. How I
went from, well, this guy's going to be in his career,
he could be an unbelievably good six man, a kind
of guy that could be that microwave, that fireplug off
the bench, and then it is that season evolved and
I kept watching, I'm saying to myself, how many guys
(05:49):
can do, really do what he can do. How many
guys is scoring come that easy for? And he just
kept doing it at such a consistent level. And I
thought his playmaking improved dramatically. Is his setting up teammates
made him a whole lot better. His defense improved, He
certainly got ways to go there. But he is a
(06:10):
special type of player. And I came around and I
remember you know, saying that you know the metter six
man and then getting hammered by like social media, and
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Something turns out there.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I thought they were right, But as the season went along,
and I think he's in the midst right now of
really having an opportunity to have an incredible season this season.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, and I think there it's not so much that
people might push back on saying a six man that
gets a negative connotation. It becomes more of can he
be a guy that plays with the other stars? Can
he be a guy that helps other players improve and
get better? And you know, Lucas, you break down the
film and I think you show it. And I go
(06:55):
back to a game in Washington last year when Kevin
Olly was the head coach and there were concet at
possessions where they ran the same set. In one play
you could see him kind of look, look his guy
free and get him the ball, and another play he
decided to take in and go to the rim and
I just thought, wow, And that one sequence it showed
(07:15):
me the maturation of Cam Thomas. Is it something you see,
Lucas when you break down the film as far as
how much better he got at getting off the ball,
which is what Steve Nash used to say as the
season went along last year.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, definitely. And I loved your sort of intro on
him because it makes me think it's always interesting the
sort of players and the sort of guys we give
more grace to versus others, whereas it's hard to get
up fifteen to twenty shots a game to create that
separation and opportunity for yourself. And it seems like sometimes
the guys that can do that, like camp Thomas, we
(07:55):
don't give as much grace and say, oh, they'll figure
out the rest as maybe say a guy who's good
on defense but can't really do much on offense. It
feels like, in general, we give those guys a lot
of time to say, oh, he'll improve his shot, this,
that and the other. But I agree with you on
camp Thomas. That Washington game, I pointed out they double
(08:16):
him off a pick and roll and he has the
same situation and he makes you know, two or three
different reads. But you can tell that that part of
his game he's understanding now and it's come with reps.
I mean, you heard him say it last season. This
is kind of like a rookie year for me, just
based on the fact that I didn't get a lot
(08:36):
of minutes in year one or two. And you can
definitely see his development. In terms of the NBA, we
play a lot of high pick and roll a lot
of the situations are similar each time down and he's
beginning to sort of excel and map out those pre
programmed reads. Okay, I know where the help is. I
know that if they're in this coverage, I have a
(08:57):
guy in the corner and a guy rolling to the rim,
et cetera, et cetera. So you can just see that
evolution and the gears clicking in his head. And really
it's it's a natural time for that to have happened
for him this season.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I remember, you know and you used in the breakdown,
and I just remember being there in Washington and seeing
that sequence and seeing how excited Kevin Olli got. Yeah
when he made a pass and it was like because
it was right in front of us, clear as day.
Can just recall Kevin just clapping his hands and getting
excited at a pass because it was like, Yeah, that's
the next level of Cam Thomas that we're able to
(09:34):
see and I and I that's what gets you excited
because the confidence has always been there. I mean, go
back to his rookie year, those shots, who was making
it the garden in the fourth quarter to win a
game against the Knicks, Like the guy's never doubted his
ability to do that stuff. Well, he's always been frustrated
as his ability to stay on the floor, and I
think he's been frustrated the way the coaches.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Have used him. But I think he's also through that frustration.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Some guys just get frustrated and just go, hey, you
know what, I don't care. I'm not going to change
who I am. I know this coach ain't going to
be here in a couple of months. I'm gonna do
my thing. No, that's not the attitude camp Thomas has had.
The attitude Cam Thomas has had is you know what.
I yes, I've been frustrated. I'm not playing more. I'm frustrated.
I'm not the focal point. But then when he got
a chance to be that guy, he didn't just say
(10:22):
all right now, I'm going to take it to run.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You're all wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
He said, no, I'm gonna still take to heart the
that I need to do better. And we've seen improvement.
And I think that goes back to the defensive end
as well. Is he ever going to be a lockdown defender? No,
but his athleticism, his low center of gravity, you know,
his powerful legs, He's got the physical skill set to
(10:45):
be more than a capable defender, and I think he'll
grow that in that part of his game, just the
way his offensive part of the game is grown.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I think he already has. Chris. I think he grew
as the season went on. Their thing about him with
that ability to leap off at two feet, he's got
a great hop in his jump shot. Well, that's going
to really aid him in his ability to rebound the basketball.
If he could be a traffic rebounding guard, that would
benefit him. Also, he's just you know, his positioning and
(11:15):
you know individual defense. Everything can be better, no doubt
about it. But he's also learned the importance of it.
And listen, this is the maturation of a young player
that is growing into the game and it's a pleasure
to watch.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
All you need to do is watch how the.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Other teams played against the Nets. You just alluded to
it in Washington. How many times did he have to
deal with double teams this year? I mean, I'll tell
you right there. If the opposition is double teaming you
game after game, well, they think you're the best player
by far, and they're willing to leave players open just
to get the ball out of your hands, But the
(11:53):
entire part of his game is maturing, it's improving. And
you know, again, not everybody just becomes a great defensive
player either.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
He's got to work at it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
And listen, let's be honest, Jordi Fernandez, that's his job
to make Camp Thomas a great great, a good defensive player.
It's got to make this whole roster a higher level
defensive team.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And yeah, Lucas does some of the numbers back up
his improvement defensively.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I mean just the fact that I agree first
of all with what Tim's is saying, and especially about
the positioning for Cam. You know, it's really just can
we trust you to work through stuff off the ball,
you know, to switch a screen, to talk to your teammates,
And that's definitely an area of defense where you know
(12:41):
you've got you have natural progression over time the more
you wrap it out and something that does fall on
Jordi and Cam's teammates, you know, making sure they're talking
to him and the team defense element of it. In
terms of the numbers, you know, defensive tracking can be
a bit wonky, but one of the numbers, the most
encouraging number I found for him, this season. Honestly is
(13:03):
going back to the offensive side. He shot over forty
three percent on catch and shoot three pointers, and if
you go buy Synergy tracking, he was an eighty eighth
percentile guy in the NBA on no dribble jump shots.
And so what that means to me is you combine
that with the passing right, you combine that with the
(13:25):
off ball shooting. All of a sudden, he's a guy
who can fit next to anybody else in the backcourt.
Oh you need me to slot over and get in
the corner, or come off some pin downs and take
some threes. I can excel at that. Oh you need
me to now get on ball, handle the rock, make decisions.
I can do that. And so it has this downstream
(13:45):
effect of I can play with more guys. Lineup construction
is easier, roster construction is easier. And when you think
about a combo guard, that's really what you want out
of that sort of archetype.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, that's a great statue brought out because you and
capric you talked about the double teaming and Lucas you
talk about his ability to to shoot it basically on
the catch right, catch and shoot, because when he's gonna
see a lot of double teams this year.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I mean, they're gonna try.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Teams are not gonna try and get out of Cam
Thomas's hands because he is dangerous the ball in his hands.
But now you could have other guys initiate the offense
if they're going to double team Cam. Now, if he
does get off the ball in a double team, he's
when he gets the ball back, It's a lot of
times going to create those catch.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And shoot situations.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So you know, certainly that's that's important, and that's why,
I mean sometimes that's just why his ability to score
is so is so lethal because he can do both.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, how many guys in the NBA are a
plus forty percent on catch and shoot? What says Lucas
is alluded to and have the ability to get anywhere
they want on the floor in the middle of the
pay and just and just pogo over people, right, just
hop get on two feet and just elevate and shoot over.
That's an unbelievable mix. And let's not forget his ability
(15:07):
to get all the way to the rim kept improving
as the season went on. He kept getting better and better.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Those numbers increased. Also, Yeah, the game that really stands
out to me. I'm sure you remember is the first
time they went to Philadelphia and he had I believe
forty points, but it was it was like four or
five catch and shoot threes. And then beyond that, you know,
he catches, pump, fakes a dribble and he's at floater
(15:33):
range and you know, we know how that goes. I
just feel like with the amount he's going to be
getting double teamed that defensive attention next year, he can
just scrounge up so many easier buckets, you know, with
that quick decision making catch and shoot or one dribble
on the perimeter. And that is a part of his
game that maybe isn't the most flashy or exciting to fans,
(15:58):
but it's the part that when you look at his
numbers at the end of the year, is going to
count for that little extra bit of a volume of efficiency. Okay,
I'm walking into six seven stress free points a night,
you know.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And it's funny you talk about flash. See I don't
think flash when I think of cam Thomas, Like he
doesn't do things the way Kyrie Irving did where you go,
oh my god, he's a magician. You know, how did
he get a shot off there? Like he's just it's
fundamentally sound the way it's it's he gets his spots.
(16:32):
He's always on balance. The shots are efficient. They go
in like there's nothing where you walk away going uh,
you know, there's nothing behind the back twisting fall into
He he just scores and you know he has that ability.
We know when he goes, he goes from right to left,
across the lane, gets up in the air, he's facing
(16:55):
the sideline, and twists his waist to shoot, you know,
like that's always a staple of his as well, which
is really hard to as a defender to gauge because
you say, oh, this guy's going across the lane, he's
elevating it looks like to pass, and then he's twisting
his body in mid air and making shots on you.
So what's flashy and beautiful about him is just the
(17:20):
numbers in the efficiency, you know, the scoring.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
The difference between below average average and good and real
good is consistency. A lot of guys can do things,
sometimes he does it all the time, and that is
the huge difference to consistency with which he can score
the basketball. You just got to make them grade at
everything else, and you got yourself a heck of an
(17:43):
NBA player.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean it's not easy, as I said before,
to get up. Forget making, it's just not easy to
get yourself to that many spots a game, to get
up fifteen shots a game, to get to the line
seven eight times a game, and a lot of guys.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And make another big part. Yeah, very good.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, And I mean I know Tim Can speaks of this,
like a lot of guys want the ball in their hands,
want that many shots a game. But can you actually
get yourself fifteen clean looks a game. It's not a
skill that everyone has, even if they'd like to imagine it.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
His looks aren't they clean, though, And yet he can
still convert at a very very high rate. And that's
what that's what's so impressive. He's a natural born scorer.
It comes easy to him. Those guys are really really.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Hard to find.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
And that's why he's a special player.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And let's not forget. And this has been a source
of frustration for him the last few years. Is I
feel like he doesn't feel like he gets the whistle.
And I think he was young and I think the
more now he becomes an established player, I think the
better whistle he's going to get. He's hard to officiate
because he is so strong. Guys kind of bounce off
(18:57):
him a little bit, you know, guys. Sometimes he doesn't
get knocked around in as much as some other guys
because he is has such a strong base, so it's
hard to officiate in that way. But I think he'll
get to the line even more as we go forward.
You know, I was thinking about this and Cabri. We
lived through this the twelve win season a while back
(19:19):
in Newark, and because there's a lot of been made
about you could, you know whatever where Vegas has put
the over under number and we know the nets or
you know, went out and got their own pick this
year back, so you know, if they weren't a situation
where they lose a lot of games. The benefit is
that you do get more ping pong balls. And we
(19:41):
know that that certain players are on the trading block
or guys have been traded. But the difference between some
of the bad teams that we have been through in
the past, and you and I have run the gambit
from calling NBA Finals teams and twelve win teams, but
the team like the tw well win team, there was
(20:01):
no one that you could get excited about the way
you're getting excited about Cam Thomas. You know, there was
nobody on that team, with the exception of maybe Brook Lopez,
where you could get excited about the way you are
about a Nick Claxton, Like, there are guys on this
NET team that we're going to be really curious and
the development of Cam Thomas is probably right at the
top of that list as to guys you could eventually
(20:23):
build around when you do get good.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting time that this is
going through. It doesn't feel like that at all to me, Chris,
like those it feels better than those times, those rough
times to me right now. Maybe I'm not in the
midst of January and they haven't lost eight in a row.
I don't know, but it doesn't feel that way. The
combination of pretty good young talent, good young talent guys
(20:50):
playing pretty well even in Summer League, the you know,
obviously what they're able to capitalize on the trades of
especially Kevin Durant. When you get that sort of picks,
that makes you feel good psychologically also, But you're right,
you also feel like there's enough there that they can
I believe they can compete.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I really do.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I think there's I think they're going to be better
than people think. And uh, Camp Thomas is a big
reason why. But I think there's a number of guys Claxton,
I think Jalen Wilson, we can go up and down
the lineup right now. I know the goal isn't the
championship right now, but there's a lot to really like
about this this team right now.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Hey, you couldn't. You couldn't tell me anything about Courtney
Lee and and Terrence Williams when I was when I
was watching that team, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, breaking out those guys right there, I know that
is pretty good.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I told you, I told you that was my that's
my heritage, that's my Brooklyn, that's heritage.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
This is going to put a wrap on our Camp
Thomas previous. You gotta be excited about watching Camp Thomas.
I'm that the thing that's gonna get you going and
and get in the car after picking up your your
kid at band practice in the middle of February.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I don't know why I said band practice, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, like and throw on the radio and then when
you get home, turn on TV, and that Tuesday night
in February against the Memphis Grizzlies, it's gonna be what's
camp Thomas doing tonight?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Is Camp Thomas going to go for fifty tonight? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And in the contract year, no contract year.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
A very good point, Lucas Kaplan.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Uh, We're gonna talk with Lucas the Capper, Tim Kapstraw
myself about various net players just like this, uh here
on the Voice of the Nets podcast. Well, thanks for
tuning in and remember to subscribe, give us a good rating,
and we will talk to you next time on the
Voice of the Nets.
Hey, what's going on.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's Chris Carino and this is the voice of the
NETS podcast as we are coming to you after a
lengthy off season doing a series of podcasts here that
are going to spotlight the players that we see, you know,
guys that were holdovers, guys coming into training camp that
we want to get a closer look at. And I've
(00:31):
assembled a dream team today. Of course, my longtime partner,
what are we beginning season number twenty two?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I believe together.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Maybe twenty three, twenty three The Kapper, Tim Capstraw.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
It's been a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And then somebody who I don't Capper might not have
been born when we started working together yet, but he
has brought a fresh perspective. His film breakdown on all
the nets digital media outlets has been just fantastic. During
the offseason, he's with nets Daley. It's Lucas Kaplan.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Hello Lucas, Hello guys, thank you for having me. And yes,
I was born, but I won't say how long I
was born when you started working together, So.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Let's just say though you probably weren't glued to your
TV in the two thousand and three NBA Finals when
Caepern and I were working together for the first time.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
If I was, I probably didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I didn't remember. Gotcha, gotcha? Maybe you were.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And maybe that's how just the NETS fandom just just
buried itself.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
In you at that.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Maybe maybe that was the genesis point.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, what is Caeper and I. Our stories are
out there. We've talked to each other million times. Lucas,
what is your background as far as following the nets
and then joining up with nets?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Dally?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, well, well it was really, at least consciously the
post finals era teams. I was five, six years old
seven Vince Carter gets traded. That's a just unelectrifying team
to watch. You can imagine as a young kid how
fast they played all the highlights and from there NETS
fandom was rooted inside of me, and it really wasn't
(02:23):
until I got to college and to college I just
started tweeting, blogging my thoughts on the Nets on basketball
in general, and people seem to like it. And the
great Bob of NETS daily Fame and some other stuff
in the past, but most notably of course NETS Daily
Fame reached out to me started writing for him, and
(02:45):
hopefully it's been an upward trajectory that I can keep
continuing and all opportunities. I've been given a rite talk
do video about the Nets. That's what it's all about,
So I can I guess, thank you guys, Jason Kidd,
Vince Carter, that era and the Nets have been a
big part of my life ever since.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
In that order, I believe it is.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
In that order, it's Carino, Capper, Jason Kidd, Vince Carter.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Where are you from, Lucas?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I'm from New York City. I'm from Manhattan, and
for a while, I was the only Nets fan that
I went to school with, you know, deep in the
heart of Nick's territory.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
But you stayed with it, and it worked out pretty
well for you.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I stayed with it.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
You think back to the mid aughts and think about
what team was more fun to watch, and you see
how I came to this point in my.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Life already, Capper, we can see Lucas and his vocabulary,
his wealth of knowledge, and the fact that he used
the word oughts.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm I got a source next to
me right now.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah. So we're doing this this podcast. Basically, Lucas did
a lot of this film study break down, and we
thought it would be a good idea to kind of
do that in conversation for and have a conversation about
some of the guys we see as keep players going
forward who were left over from last year's team, And
I thought, Hey, what better way to start it off?
(04:14):
As we're recording these we're doing this first. We don't
know if our producer, Steve Goldberg, will will rearrange the
order at some point, but the place I wanted to
start was probably a guy who I think has been
the most polarizing of in terms of what people feel
(04:35):
about this player, and I think though it's starting to
be less polarizing and less polarizing, and that's Cam Thomas.
I think I will include myself as one of those
people that Cam has won over. And I don't mean
that I ever doubted he was a terrific basketball player.
(04:56):
I think we all knew his potential offensively was through
the roof, but I think his ability to do all
those little things that critics kind of pinpointed as to
why he couldn't be a star, a guy you.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Can build around.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I think late in the season last year, if there's
something that came out of that latter half of the year.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Cabr.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I think it's the fact that camp Thom has proved
to us that he's more than just a one trick pony.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I mean I have the same sentiments. I remember talking
about that quite a bit throughout the season. How I
went from, well, this guy's going to be in his career,
he could be an unbelievably good six man, a kind
of guy that could be that microwave, that fireplug off
the bench, and then it is that season evolved and
I kept watching, I'm saying to myself, how many guys
(05:49):
can do, really do what he can do. How many
guys is scoring come that easy for? And he just
kept doing it at such a consistent level. And I
thought his playmaking improved dramatically. Is his setting up teammates
made him a whole lot better. His defense improved, He
certainly got ways to go there. But he is a
(06:10):
special type of player. And I came around and I
remember you know, saying that you know the metter six
man and then getting hammered by like social media, and
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Something turns out there.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I thought they were right, But as the season went along,
and I think he's in the midst right now of
really having an opportunity to have an incredible season this season.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, and I think there it's not so much that
people might push back on saying a six man that
gets a negative connotation. It becomes more of can he
be a guy that plays with the other stars? Can
he be a guy that helps other players improve and
get better? And you know, Lucas, you break down the
film and I think you show it. And I go
(06:55):
back to a game in Washington last year when Kevin
Olly was the head coach and there were concet at
possessions where they ran the same set. In one play
you could see him kind of look, look his guy
free and get him the ball, and another play he
decided to take in and go to the rim and
I just thought, wow, And that one sequence it showed
(07:15):
me the maturation of Cam Thomas. Is it something you see,
Lucas when you break down the film as far as
how much better he got at getting off the ball,
which is what Steve Nash used to say as the
season went along last year.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, definitely. And I loved your sort of intro on
him because it makes me think it's always interesting the
sort of players and the sort of guys we give
more grace to versus others, whereas it's hard to get
up fifteen to twenty shots a game to create that
separation and opportunity for yourself. And it seems like sometimes
the guys that can do that, like camp Thomas, we
(07:55):
don't give as much grace and say, oh, they'll figure
out the rest as maybe say a guy who's good
on defense but can't really do much on offense. It
feels like, in general, we give those guys a lot
of time to say, oh, he'll improve his shot, this,
that and the other. But I agree with you on
camp Thomas. That Washington game, I pointed out they double
(08:16):
him off a pick and roll and he has the
same situation and he makes you know, two or three
different reads. But you can tell that that part of
his game he's understanding now and it's come with reps.
I mean, you heard him say it last season. This
is kind of like a rookie year for me, just
based on the fact that I didn't get a lot
(08:36):
of minutes in year one or two. And you can
definitely see his development. In terms of the NBA, we
play a lot of high pick and roll a lot
of the situations are similar each time down and he's
beginning to sort of excel and map out those pre
programmed reads. Okay, I know where the help is. I
know that if they're in this coverage, I have a
(08:57):
guy in the corner and a guy rolling to the rim,
et cetera, et cetera. So you can just see that
evolution and the gears clicking in his head. And really
it's it's a natural time for that to have happened
for him this season.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I remember, you know and you used in the breakdown,
and I just remember being there in Washington and seeing
that sequence and seeing how excited Kevin Olli got. Yeah
when he made a pass and it was like because
it was right in front of us, clear as day.
Can just recall Kevin just clapping his hands and getting
excited at a pass because it was like, Yeah, that's
the next level of Cam Thomas that we're able to
(09:34):
see and I and I that's what gets you excited
because the confidence has always been there. I mean, go
back to his rookie year, those shots, who was making
it the garden in the fourth quarter to win a
game against the Knicks, Like the guy's never doubted his
ability to do that stuff. Well, he's always been frustrated
as his ability to stay on the floor, and I
think he's been frustrated the way the coaches.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Have used him. But I think he's also through that frustration.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Some guys just get frustrated and just go, hey, you
know what, I don't care. I'm not going to change
who I am. I know this coach ain't going to
be here in a couple of months. I'm gonna do
my thing. No, that's not the attitude camp Thomas has had.
The attitude Cam Thomas has had is you know what.
I yes, I've been frustrated. I'm not playing more. I'm frustrated.
I'm not the focal point. But then when he got
a chance to be that guy, he didn't just say
(10:22):
all right now, I'm going to take it to run.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You're all wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
He said, no, I'm gonna still take to heart the
that I need to do better. And we've seen improvement.
And I think that goes back to the defensive end
as well. Is he ever going to be a lockdown defender? No,
but his athleticism, his low center of gravity, you know,
his powerful legs, He's got the physical skill set to
(10:45):
be more than a capable defender, and I think he'll
grow that in that part of his game, just the
way his offensive part of the game is grown.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I think he already has. Chris. I think he grew
as the season went on. Their thing about him with
that ability to leap off at two feet, he's got
a great hop in his jump shot. Well, that's going
to really aid him in his ability to rebound the basketball.
If he could be a traffic rebounding guard, that would
benefit him. Also, he's just you know, his positioning and
(11:15):
you know individual defense. Everything can be better, no doubt
about it. But he's also learned the importance of it.
And listen, this is the maturation of a young player
that is growing into the game and it's a pleasure
to watch.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
All you need to do is watch how the.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Other teams played against the Nets. You just alluded to
it in Washington. How many times did he have to
deal with double teams this year? I mean, I'll tell
you right there. If the opposition is double teaming you
game after game, well, they think you're the best player
by far, and they're willing to leave players open just
to get the ball out of your hands, But the
(11:53):
entire part of his game is maturing, it's improving. And
you know, again, not everybody just becomes a great defensive
player either.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
He's got to work at it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
And listen, let's be honest, Jordi Fernandez, that's his job
to make Camp Thomas a great great, a good defensive player.
It's got to make this whole roster a higher level
defensive team.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And yeah, Lucas does some of the numbers back up
his improvement defensively.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I mean just the fact that I agree first
of all with what Tim's is saying, and especially about
the positioning for Cam. You know, it's really just can
we trust you to work through stuff off the ball,
you know, to switch a screen, to talk to your teammates,
And that's definitely an area of defense where you know
(12:41):
you've got you have natural progression over time the more
you wrap it out and something that does fall on
Jordi and Cam's teammates, you know, making sure they're talking
to him and the team defense element of it. In
terms of the numbers, you know, defensive tracking can be
a bit wonky, but one of the numbers, the most
encouraging number I found for him, this season. Honestly is
(13:03):
going back to the offensive side. He shot over forty
three percent on catch and shoot three pointers, and if
you go buy Synergy tracking, he was an eighty eighth
percentile guy in the NBA on no dribble jump shots.
And so what that means to me is you combine
that with the passing right, you combine that with the
(13:25):
off ball shooting. All of a sudden, he's a guy
who can fit next to anybody else in the backcourt.
Oh you need me to slot over and get in
the corner, or come off some pin downs and take
some threes. I can excel at that. Oh you need
me to now get on ball, handle the rock, make decisions.
I can do that. And so it has this downstream
(13:45):
effect of I can play with more guys. Lineup construction
is easier, roster construction is easier. And when you think
about a combo guard, that's really what you want out
of that sort of archetype.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, that's a great statue brought out because you and
capric you talked about the double teaming and Lucas you
talk about his ability to to shoot it basically on
the catch right, catch and shoot, because when he's gonna
see a lot of double teams this year.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I mean, they're gonna try.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Teams are not gonna try and get out of Cam
Thomas's hands because he is dangerous the ball in his hands.
But now you could have other guys initiate the offense
if they're going to double team Cam. Now, if he
does get off the ball in a double team, he's
when he gets the ball back, It's a lot of
times going to create those catch.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And shoot situations.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
So you know, certainly that's that's important, and that's why,
I mean sometimes that's just why his ability to score
is so is so lethal because he can do both.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, how many guys in the NBA are a
plus forty percent on catch and shoot? What says Lucas
is alluded to and have the ability to get anywhere
they want on the floor in the middle of the
pay and just and just pogo over people, right, just
hop get on two feet and just elevate and shoot over.
That's an unbelievable mix. And let's not forget his ability
(15:07):
to get all the way to the rim kept improving
as the season went on. He kept getting better and better.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Those numbers increased. Also, Yeah, the game that really stands
out to me. I'm sure you remember is the first
time they went to Philadelphia and he had I believe
forty points, but it was it was like four or
five catch and shoot threes. And then beyond that, you know,
he catches, pump, fakes a dribble and he's at floater
(15:33):
range and you know, we know how that goes. I
just feel like with the amount he's going to be
getting double teamed that defensive attention next year, he can
just scrounge up so many easier buckets, you know, with
that quick decision making catch and shoot or one dribble
on the perimeter. And that is a part of his
game that maybe isn't the most flashy or exciting to fans,
(15:58):
but it's the part that when you look at his
numbers at the end of the year, is going to
count for that little extra bit of a volume of efficiency. Okay,
I'm walking into six seven stress free points a night,
you know.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And it's funny you talk about flash. See I don't
think flash when I think of cam Thomas, Like he
doesn't do things the way Kyrie Irving did where you go,
oh my god, he's a magician. You know, how did
he get a shot off there? Like he's just it's
fundamentally sound the way it's it's he gets his spots.
(16:32):
He's always on balance. The shots are efficient. They go
in like there's nothing where you walk away going uh,
you know, there's nothing behind the back twisting fall into
He he just scores and you know he has that ability.
We know when he goes, he goes from right to left,
across the lane, gets up in the air, he's facing
(16:55):
the sideline, and twists his waist to shoot, you know,
like that's always a staple of his as well, which
is really hard to as a defender to gauge because
you say, oh, this guy's going across the lane, he's
elevating it looks like to pass, and then he's twisting
his body in mid air and making shots on you.
So what's flashy and beautiful about him is just the
(17:20):
numbers in the efficiency, you know, the scoring.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
The difference between below average average and good and real
good is consistency. A lot of guys can do things,
sometimes he does it all the time, and that is
the huge difference to consistency with which he can score
the basketball. You just got to make them grade at
everything else, and you got yourself a heck of an
(17:43):
NBA player.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, I mean it's not easy, as I said before,
to get up. Forget making, it's just not easy to
get yourself to that many spots a game, to get
up fifteen shots a game, to get to the line
seven eight times a game, and a lot of guys.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And make another big part. Yeah, very good.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, And I mean I know Tim Can speaks of this,
like a lot of guys want the ball in their hands,
want that many shots a game. But can you actually
get yourself fifteen clean looks a game. It's not a
skill that everyone has, even if they'd like to imagine it.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
His looks aren't they clean, though, And yet he can
still convert at a very very high rate. And that's
what that's what's so impressive. He's a natural born scorer.
It comes easy to him. Those guys are really really.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Hard to find.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
And that's why he's a special player.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And let's not forget. And this has been a source
of frustration for him the last few years. Is I
feel like he doesn't feel like he gets the whistle.
And I think he was young and I think the
more now he becomes an established player, I think the
better whistle he's going to get. He's hard to officiate
because he is so strong. Guys kind of bounce off
(18:57):
him a little bit, you know, guys. Sometimes he doesn't
get knocked around in as much as some other guys
because he is has such a strong base, so it's
hard to officiate in that way. But I think he'll
get to the line even more as we go forward.
You know, I was thinking about this and Cabri. We
lived through this the twelve win season a while back
(19:19):
in Newark, and because there's a lot of been made
about you could, you know whatever where Vegas has put
the over under number and we know the nets or
you know, went out and got their own pick this
year back, so you know, if they weren't a situation
where they lose a lot of games. The benefit is
that you do get more ping pong balls. And we
(19:41):
know that that certain players are on the trading block
or guys have been traded. But the difference between some
of the bad teams that we have been through in
the past, and you and I have run the gambit
from calling NBA Finals teams and twelve win teams, but
the team like the tw well win team, there was
(20:01):
no one that you could get excited about the way
you're getting excited about Cam Thomas. You know, there was
nobody on that team, with the exception of maybe Brook Lopez,
where you could get excited about the way you are
about a Nick Claxton, Like, there are guys on this
NET team that we're going to be really curious and
the development of Cam Thomas is probably right at the
top of that list as to guys you could eventually
(20:23):
build around when you do get good.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting time that this is
going through. It doesn't feel like that at all to me, Chris,
like those it feels better than those times, those rough
times to me right now. Maybe I'm not in the
midst of January and they haven't lost eight in a row.
I don't know, but it doesn't feel that way. The
combination of pretty good young talent, good young talent guys
(20:50):
playing pretty well even in Summer League, the you know,
obviously what they're able to capitalize on the trades of
especially Kevin Durant. When you get that sort of picks,
that makes you feel good psychologically also, But you're right,
you also feel like there's enough there that they can
I believe they can compete.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I really do.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I think there's I think they're going to be better
than people think. And uh, Camp Thomas is a big
reason why. But I think there's a number of guys Claxton,
I think Jalen Wilson, we can go up and down
the lineup right now. I know the goal isn't the
championship right now, but there's a lot to really like
about this this team right now.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Hey, you couldn't. You couldn't tell me anything about Courtney
Lee and and Terrence Williams when I was when I
was watching that team, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, breaking out those guys right there, I know that
is pretty good.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I told you, I told you that was my that's
my heritage, that's my Brooklyn, that's heritage.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
This is going to put a wrap on our Camp
Thomas previous. You gotta be excited about watching Camp Thomas.
I'm that the thing that's gonna get you going and
and get in the car after picking up your your
kid at band practice in the middle of February.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I don't know why I said band practice, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, like and throw on the radio and then when
you get home, turn on TV, and that Tuesday night
in February against the Memphis Grizzlies, it's gonna be what's
camp Thomas doing tonight?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Is Camp Thomas going to go for fifty tonight? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
And in the contract year, no contract year.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
A very good point, Lucas Kaplan.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Uh, We're gonna talk with Lucas the Capper, Tim Kapstraw
myself about various net players just like this, uh here
on the Voice of the Nets podcast. Well, thanks for
tuning in and remember to subscribe, give us a good rating,
and we will talk to you next time on the
Voice of the Nets.
Host
Chris Carrino
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