Friends of Gadsden Creek

This week, LF & DK are joined by activist and Twitch streamer Tamika Gadsden to discussion the intersections of racial and environmental justice in Charleston, South Carolina.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
You are listening to waiting on reparations of production of
I Heart Radio. What's happened? What's happening? Yeah, it's dope.
Knife in the house. That was a nice little that
was a little departure from what we usually do. It's like, yeah,

(00:24):
you know, we're happy and we're seeing it in we're colored.
Give me yeah, yeah, what's going on the knife? You
know what it is? You know what it is? Um,
how are you doing? Um? Like like I been swept

(00:45):
through I don't know, like the tumble tumbleweed, Like they're
rolling rolling across the country inside of a tumbleweed. Somewhat happen.
You're still on the road, right, I'm on the road. Yep.
I made it to New Orleans, got my last show
of the tour tonight, and then um, get back to
my adorable baby. I'm never doing this again. I'm so

(01:06):
much just dumb. It sounds like you're It sounds like
you're in a more comfortable place to record to today
because last time, last time, it sounded like you were
in a prison cap You're trying to be quiet about
the guards and ship like, yeah, that was my last
transmission before I was never again. We have to fight
for reparations. Oh no, they're coming in. Yeah, what's good

(01:29):
with you? I'm good. I have some North Carolina shows
over the weekend. Um, I had a St. Patty's Day
show here in Savannah. It was cool. It's cool. It's
a nice little weekend of performing and stuff like that.
I'm starting to gear back up into it because I
just made the announcement yesterday that I'm actually doing like
a you know, pretty much like a full like five
six days or something like that in April. So I

(01:50):
thought that's what it is. Yeah, I was saying that,
and I was like, I'm shoot you out here, out here, Yeah,
that's coming up soon. So I gotta start getting mentally
prepared for that grind. And she's like that, you know,
when you when you just go do these little weekend runs,
it's not even really like a thing like that, you know.
So I don't even like a like, I don't even
know if I can do that anymore. I mean, granted,
I've been gone for like nine days now, so this

(02:12):
is kind of like like, but I mean you can
work out like some sort of thing where you can
do that like every few months, you know what I'm saying.
That's pretty much what everybody else does anyway. So yeah,
but I was like, but so we got showed together
in Savanna in April or but I'm trying to and
like I got a little or something sometimes soon I
don't know if I'm misquoted, but like I was looking

(02:33):
at my but see this is what I always do,
and I'm like, oh, I can do little weekends herever there,
And then I booked like two whole months of weekends
on accident my life. We're doing that Savannah show, right,
that's thet We're doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm
excited to do that. So what's hilariously that is I'm

(02:53):
gonna be down there for the the Conference of Georgia
County Commissioners that they once a year, the annual conference
they have her County Inmstrs of Georgia today have it
everything in Savannah? Is that what was going on last
time that we didn't appreciate the last time I planted
show in Savannah, I was down here from this conference,

(03:15):
is the mayor of Bathan's gonna pop in on us
night popping? He might pop in, yes he might. Um,
you got some new commissioners on board might have them
roll up that's they can see the whole show bang,
then they can see him. No joke, like this is
a real time job. Vii is, This is not a hobby.
So we gotta So we got a dope show for

(03:37):
you today. We're gonna be talking with streamer and activists
Mika Gadson. I even feel weird describing her as just
that she does like I almost want to call historian too,
like she knows about She's got all the receipts um
environmental justice like like can like intersections in her work

(03:58):
are just fascinating. So yeah, we got a lot um
a lot of love for me because came on. But
we'll talk to her in a little bit. Again. Before
we get into that, we got to talk about our
least favorite but most discussed subject just because he's in
the news. But we gotta gota we might have to
talk about Kanye West. Oh god, really, I mean, you

(04:21):
know when somebody came up to me the other day,
like someone who is like a genuine fan of the podcast,
and they were like, Kanya does a lot of stuff
that makes you guys have to talk about her. But
all right, so what's going on Kanye is just he's
divorced with with Kim Kardashian, YadA YadA, beef in with

(04:42):
a bunch of people. Because of the situation, he's pretty
much stocking her like online and public lea and ship.
But so some comedians have waited on this. Trevor Noah waited,
d L. Hughley has waited, and pretty much all of
them saying of him, saying pretty much reasonable things like, hey,

(05:03):
this is stalking. If this dude wasn't a millionaire, billionaire,
musical genius whatever y'all call them, cops would probably be involved,
This could lead to abuse whatever whatever you know. Making
commentary on that won't leave her alone, blah blah blah,
beefing with her her new boyfriend, Pete Davison, their exchange
of text messages. It's all really messy. It's all very

(05:24):
Jury Springer's funny, right. But in response to D. L. Hughley,
so he says, this is all one sentence to it's
it doesn't doesn't break. So okay, let we start again.
We go stop letting practicing drug addicts be used by
leftists to Willie Lynch our future. Black people with our
own opinion are not allowed to speak in public. I

(05:45):
am the glitch d L. God does not like you,
You have no favor. Your family hates you. I would
hate to be related to someone who used to be famous.
Now you're just known as a broke pond. At least
Oprah got billions quote allegedly, come on, leftist, y'all gotta
do better than d L. This. Yeah, bring the real smoke, baby,

(06:06):
show your real face. Charmonne with Charlemagne the guy. Just
don't hit the same way, do he? Who you're going
to send? Now? God is with us? You send d
L against us. You've lost. No brilliant Hebrews will bow
to y'all no more. Only dumbass, drug addicted house niggers.
Don't play with me, don't play with God. Anybody related

(06:27):
to d L called Chris like a bunch of Kanye
rambling stuff. But the thing that stuck out to me
was his use of the term leftists. And I noticed
because I'm punching myself in the face. I don't know
if you can hear that. I just wanted to transcribe,
since this is an audio show, that I am myself

(06:48):
in the face right now. Okay, come on, please, all
of the expected preachers are obviously all out there now here,
all of them are coming out and they're like, yes, Scott,
tell those leftists, tell those that the like I would,
I would dare him to like like define what I mean.
That's that's that's applying too much rationality to it, I think,

(07:09):
because like for me, it's not even necessarily paying attention
to Kanye, but looking at the right wings reaction to
him in this situation. And now, like I mean, obviously
Kanye he wore the MAGA hat, who visited with Trump,
he did all that stuff. But really, if you think
about this situation, it's like they're finding solidarity solidarity with

(07:31):
this dude at this particular moment on the basis that
he's harassing his wife, you know what I mean, Like,
that's that is that's the leftist attack. The leftist attack is, hey,
don't like harass your wife and threatened to like kill
people online, which is why he got he got a
booted from the Grammys. He was supposed to perform and

(07:53):
they booted him because of he like he's making like
threats to d L and Trevor like I've got I
have enough money to get you hurt. I know where
you live like ship like that. Right, So they they
kicked them off the Grammys and that is now the
right wings they're canceling Kanye. Yeah, just just a further
demonstrate that this canceling woke, cancel culture ship that they're

(08:16):
talking about. It's like, really, it's rooted in are you
trying to be a decent person or not? Because if
you're trying to be a decent person, then that's well
that's bad, that's cancel culture. This really is reminiscent to me.
I was learning yesterday that UM Josh Holly um LAEF
senator from Missouri. Is that correct? Um, it's endorsed herschel

(08:36):
Walker for Georgia Senate. UM. If you're not familiar, former
UM Georgia football player, very famous, UM some have some problems,
might have like beat the ship out of several women,
including his ex wife allegedly, and so, UM, so Holly's
out here talking about how this like democratic candidate for UM.

(08:57):
Actually let me, I think Nicki Haley came down to
Georgia to campaign and raise some money with herschel Walker.
That is Nicki Halleys. She was governor of South Carolina,
CUM she was UM. I think Ambassador to the U
n But I mean before that, okay, I don't Oh yeah,

(09:23):
I ain't even pressed. So Josh Holly, what did he
do besides accused the Supreme Court nominee of supporting pedophilia. Yeah,
Josh Holly, They're like, look, man, the Republicans are now
in this new thing where the same way that Putin

(09:45):
is thrown around Nazi to justify or now the Republicans
are just like blanketly calling everybody a pedophile, like just everything,
everybody for everything? Oh, is it like a Q and
on kind of thing, Like, well, not really see what
they're saying. So she had ah there was a case
or something that she was hearing where someone was making

(10:07):
an argument against like a mandatory sentencing for people who
I guess indulge in child pornography. And the person who
was arguing this was making the case that not everybody
who's involved in it is involved in it for that reason,
like there's like a bunch of factors that go in.
So they were explaining this this reasoning to her for

(10:29):
the sentencing, and she was hearing their reasoning and was
asking them questions. So they've like sniffed out the questions
that she was asking to say that this is what
she was supporting, that she has a history of doing.
It's really ugly stuff, Like really it's like pretty much
demagoguery as close to it as you can get. But
it's a bad ship. But that that that seems to

(10:50):
be their new tactics. Just like at every level from
online Twitter discourse to now even politicians are just like, oh,
we don't want this person to be nominated. Let's just
float out there uncircumstanced, circumstance, circumstantiator accusations. But I'm sorry

(11:12):
what we're saying about a drop. So there's a Democrat
running for something in Missouri I forgot about. But he's
got some he's got some like the Salt allegations against him,
and he's like, if you if you beat your if
you put your hands on a woman, you should be
in handcuffs, not the Senate or you know whatever. Meanwhile,
he's endorsed herschel Walker though, who like long history of

(11:33):
allegations of being shifted out of women. And so it's
like literally like they go they're like go to like
the bargain bin. Black people just like, oh, what do
you have? What do you have black Oh you don't
have Oh we're fresh out of uggar everestus. Oh we
ain't got no top knives. Uh. Well, I can't leave
empty handed because we look at real we look in
real sparks. If I don't, if I don't come home

(11:55):
with something, um. But actually I would say that, like,
can we go back and talk about how we talked
about the Hebrew? Yeah? I mean what does that? Even
the whole the whole thing is not sensible? Like what
I don't you know what does this talking about? Well?
I learned recently. So when I was at south By Southwest,
I encountered a group of like street preachers that were

(12:18):
these black dudes with like big old beards, wearing like
punk rocks, like studded jackets with like um stars of
David on it, who were claiming to be of the
Temple of the Israelites and um, talking about how they're
like like black people are the real Jews. Did anybody

(12:39):
body photography altogether? I hope no I photographed them. I
was like, what the fucking my witnessing right now? I
don't do not know what's going on, and like for
higher office, that picture is gonna come up with you
with them, like frank down, Like, what am I witnessing
right now? How I know that? Um no? So I

(13:02):
mean that that I was I was been learning about
how like in the A d O L like I
don't call you know, I don't know if you call
it a movement or like circles kind of hope happy
as like spiritual black people that are like, um, you
know kind of yeah, anyway, we'll get into a halt.
We need to do a whole episode in a DUS
But anyway, but I didn't I didn't know. Apparently this
is really a thing where um like sounds kind of

(13:24):
like people think that black people are the real Jews
and like the real children of Gotten the way that
Juts are something like I don't know, well, I mean,
you know, Ethiopian Jews or Black I'm not you know,
I'm not too familiar with the history in terms of
like who was first or who wasn't. But back to
this Kanye thing, it definitely sounds like he is trying

(13:46):
to perfect like a merger of Hotep sentiment, you know,
sentiment with like full on modern day right wing that
shittery and it's just, you know, it's curious curious because
like now if you're you know, you know, when you're
getting some discourse with these fan groups and stuff like that,

(14:07):
and you know if you're like, oh man, I didn't
like track number three on Beyonce's last album, and then
you find yourself like taking it from all sides and
ship like that. Well, this Kanye discourse just like you know,
like creeping through some comments sections and ship like that,
a little little line between like some of these Kanye
fans and like a full on magal lunatic is starting

(14:29):
to get raise it at this point, raise it bizarre.
I'm not an elected politician, so if you were, if
you if um, I came back to you of ten
years ago and it's in a little time uh time machine.
I was like a time caps hope that's not right,
um spaceship still wrong of time machine and told you

(14:51):
any years now Kanye West is going to I believe
he is um uh last by uh um it's leftist,
and that he's threatening to murder d l Hughley and
um also slid slavery is fine. You know what a reason?

(15:14):
What would you think? Would you? Um call for help?
I'm glad you asked me that because you know, I
think we're gonna have to do an episode someday of
like criticizing hip hop from the left, you know what
I mean. But I I wouldn't if you told me that.

(15:37):
I wouldn't be surprised personally, you know, not, not like
I have any sort of like one up on anybody
on knowledge or anything like that. But when I started
becoming just in my own mind, when I started becoming
more politically aware, like around you know, like post nine eleven,
two thousand three ish, two thousand two ish, that sort
of errors, when I started having my own political weight

(16:00):
ging and developing my own political world view and ship
like that. Being that was around the time when I
first started like getting into wrapped and being a rapper,
and then I was noticing, wait a minute, there's a
lot of right wing ship in this hip hop day
right now. It's kind of just going around undetected that

(16:20):
we're not even like paying attention to because of you know,
I don't know why, like for for some reason, we've
got like this blind spot that it's like, yo, if
Kid Rock was saying this, we would all clearly see
what it is, you know what I mean. So there
were just aspects of in particular Kanye West personality as

(16:41):
a public figure and as an m C. Just to
be honest with you, where I was like, Oh, this
beat is dope, but this got something I don't know
if I really I don't know if I'm working with
this dude like that, you know. I mean that's just
me personally. So as time goes on, it's like one
way you could interpret it is be like, oh he's
a diva, or oh he's an asshole or a damn

(17:04):
Kanye is a real jerk, you know what I'm saying.
But if you're like one of those people who looks
at things through a political lens, it's like I think
it was this thing was the right winger, you know
what I mean? Yeah, I mean like ten years ago
is when like my Beautiful, Dark Twisted Fantasy dropped and
even then he was like I had a reputation as
an asshole, even had that song Are you remind me

(17:25):
of it? When he said that this one's an asshole,
you know, like and like there's that moment of redemption,
was like, oh, maybe Kanye is okay. Like I remember,
like you're like, I'm ship, Like I love Kanye a
getting all right, Yeah, maybe you have to go back
farther than that butt. When people tell you who they are,
believe them. And we have kept this intro going way

(17:45):
too motherfucking log, so you wanted to real quickly there
was some uhmies want to shout it out before me
moving to oh, yes, you're right, you're right, you're right, yes,
before you forget abou yo, I smoked my ball before
we started my memory or short term memories going all right, yeah, No,
I just wanted to mention, you know, because we're in

(18:08):
this uh current news cycle where everybody is talking about
Ukraine and the situation there is definitely terrible and you know,
people are dying, the Russians are bombing cities, uh indiscriminately
killing kids and stuff like that. But I just want
to take it as the resident African on this show,

(18:28):
just to remind people that there are currently like wild
coup's going on in Africa and refuge and refugee crisis
is of their own. Um. I think Burkina Faso just
had a military takeover. There was a failed one in
Guinea Basu, so I mean, you know what I mean,
there's other there's other places where there's tensions on the

(18:49):
rise and stuff like that. So it's not even like
I understand, it's like I am not surprised that white
Western media is focusing on their white Western ship, you
know what I'm saying. But for people who aren't like
tunnel visions into that, you know what I'm saying, maybe
you should, you know, go and and and read about

(19:09):
some of the other things that are going on over
the world because this Ukraine ship, as bad as it is,
it is going to take up twenty four hour news
coverage at least for like the next year and a
half maybe two years, so you guys probably won't be
hearing about much else. And I appreciate you framing it
that way because we either see like leftists making fun

(19:29):
of like libs about like how you don't care about
war when it's when it's brown people, and like libs
being like not, you know not now, like you know
why you gotta distract from like those issues those issues
are about too, But we're focused on Ukraine right now,
like rather than people just having a genuine dialogue about this,
instead of folks that have a more robust antipe war

(19:50):
stands where they are pretension you know, paying attention to
conflicts internet, like genuinely international, not general international, more like
a more broad of international conflicts. Can comment on that,
not just when the war is on white people, right, Um,
maybe read up on this, Maybe find out about this
rather than like poking fun at folks for not having known,

(20:12):
because it's not I don't think it's just like the
regular average person's fault that they don't know about this.
It's the meaning and then tell you on top of that,
on top of that, on top of that with like
some of these leftists who say ship like that, it's
like nigga, I don't never hear you talking about ship
that's going on until so, you know what I mean.
It's like this opportunity to kind of be your point,

(20:36):
but also why you have be like that, Like just
the point, the point is valid. I'm not hating on
the point, but it's just like you gotta you yourself,
have to be consistent, you know what I mean. So
if I'm watching your ship, if I'm listening to you
and you're somebody that I listened to on the regular,
and you weren't talking about fucking Brakino Fasso, you know
what I mean? Two months ago when the ship went down.

(20:56):
Then don't be like, why are you talking about Ukraine?
Their stuff going on, and you know I don't don't
do that now, like yeah, everybody shows some humility, like
I just you know, I just found out about this.
I want to raise some awareness about it. Oh thank
you French kidding me about that, rather than just like
being so stubborn about like I'm right, you're wrong. I'm
right about this thing. I found out about two weeks

(21:17):
ago about it. Today, I'll find links down the line.
But there there are you know, there's there's YouTube channels
that cover African news and African politics and African occurrences,
tons of them. I mean there's fifty four fifty six
countries in Africa, so you know what I'm saying, Like,
there's there's people who are covering these things that you

(21:37):
can find if you look for it. I'm just saying again,
I am not surprised that these things don't get covered
by people who don't have an you know, feel that
don't necessarily have an interest in it. I do. And
I'm just just spreading that out there for people who
also think that they might that there's a lot, there's
a lot of problems in the world, so many problems

(21:59):
in the world, so many Well, let's take a break
in and get into this interview with me. Guy, let's
do it, all right, We'll be right back after the job. Alright, alright, alright,
So today we are here with Mika Gaston. I don't
even know you wear so many hats, like like you

(22:19):
are Charleston. To me, I'm like, oh you mean you
mean Mika City, you know, like her queendom. I will
let you intro yourself for all our listeners this week,
are no problem and thank you first and foremost. Talking
about wearing many hats. Uh, you do it all yourself.
But yeah, I'm Mika Gadston. I'm based here in Charleston,

(22:41):
South Carolina. Um. I am the daughter of Jim Crow
refugees so are relocated to Charleston probably about eight years
or so ago. Um. But uh yeah, I'm a I'm
an activist, I'm an organizer, I'm a gad fly. Um.
I pissed people off. I interrogate power and all that,
and and I create and I'm a Twitch streamer and podcasters.

(23:03):
So that's me. But only she out here in these streets.
She out here on these um she out here on
these streams. Oh you can tell who's who's the real
wrapper around here, real bars. Yeah. So, UM, we had
the pleasure recently kind of speaking about the intersections between

(23:26):
some of the projects we're working on. I spoke a
little bit about my work with Lennontown here in Athens,
and there's a somewhat overlapping UM project that you are
working on in Charleston called the Friends with Patson Creek. Correct. Correct,
you can talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely, Well,
you know, UM, I'll talk to you about this. I think.
I think, just like so many other towns, not just

(23:48):
specifically Southern cities, UM, Charleston has this long, the storied
history UM of taking taking land, UM, taking agency or
attempting to remove agency. UM. And they do it through
a myriad of ways. You know, all oppression is linked,
but specifically in Charleston. I mean, if they didn't create

(24:10):
the pattern for Hayless, dump into your backyard and then
take your land and then you know, enter you into
a cycle of poverty for generations, I don't know who.
I'm not saying that they want to earn that distinction,
but Charleston has perfected this what my friend calls my
my brother in this struggle, Cyrus Buffon calls a pattern
of taking and um, yeah, the friends of Gas and Creek.

(24:33):
What we're trying to do is we leverage the archive,
uh and trying to highlight this pattern. But now more recently,
since we've partnered with you know, the South Caroline Environmental
Law Law a law group scalp UM, we we're now
taking it to the courts and so, um, we're taking
on one of the biggest developers here in Charleston that

(24:56):
it's actually just another outgrowth of previous effort to take land,
to take home ownership, to take the ability to build
equity from black Charlestonians. And so we're currently engaged in
this fight where we're taking them up. And you know,
they are a formidable foe, but we are mighty and
we are persistent, and uh, I'm encouraged by our fight,

(25:19):
and we want to we want to, we want to
we want to explain to people this pattern. And I
think also really quickly for talking back, we want to
show black folks that environmental justice issues or environmental injustice
is a black liberation issue. And and that's one thing
that we're all we're poised to do as well in

(25:39):
this fight. Um. So just for our listeners, say, when
you say that Charleston has like a long history of again,
could you give like an example so those who don't know, Yeah,
so uh in the late nineteen thirties, specifically, I'm gonna
keep you over here with friends of gas and Creek
because what's done here on the peninsula. If you look

(25:59):
at a map of all staid, it's not just the
tourism district or the tourism tourism region that resembles a
thumb um, but that the thumb is the peninsula. But
that's where we're gonna stay, I think for the majority
of this of this conversation. And so back in the
nineteen thirties, there was a tornado that ripped through Charleston Um,
the affluent area, as well as Um, an area of

(26:22):
of Charleston called Gads and Green also informally called back
the Green Um. If you know anything about Charleston, you'll
learn about the Gala Gichi language and and so that
probably was where that name emerged from Back to Green
so Um as the tornadoes ripped through Back to Green
Um the affluent side of Charleston was allowed to rebuild

(26:43):
and to you know, um, you know, rebuild that the
tourism and buildings, instructures and in residences. Whereas the black neighborhood,
and this was a black neighborhood that actually held the
most upwardly mobile, economically independent black people. These were teachers,
these were fishermen, These were people who um, you know,
sold livestock. Um. They lived off of a creek called

(27:06):
the Gadsden Creek right up against back the green or
gads In Green. And so as this this tornado comes through,
it's disaster capitalism one on one. This was the time
where the previous mayors always eyed this part of Charleston
because you know, they wanted to create I guess they
wanted to they wanted to create more real estate, but
they also wanted to have more taxable land. Um. And

(27:29):
so they started to um. Instead of black folk allowing
them to rebuild their homes, they literally said no, we're
going to build a housing project, um, and you're not
going and they called it a slum. It was a
slum clearance. All those words that we know are very
problematical phrases rather that are very problematic um uh and

(27:49):
so you know, after this community over forty families, not
forty people, forty families mobilized and organized to not only
raise the money through th years, um you know, carnivals. Uh,
they also wrote this, this this amazing letter to the
mayor at that time, Mayor Lockwood, saying hey, no, no,
we're we're we got this. We're gonna raise money, We're gonna,

(28:11):
we're gonna pull ourselves up our boot traps all just
to get like a one paragraph response from the mayor saying, nah,
we're gonna, we're gonna build this housing project and that.
So they took black folks ability to rebuild their homes.
But also what they did they started to dump that
thumb I told you about, Well the thumb wasn't as
fat as it is now. So what they started to

(28:31):
do specifically on this area, and they did it in
other areas as well. They started to dump and and
fill in the marshaland the tidal creek area. This is
a creek again that folks were baptized in that they
earned a living from or shoot, they just fed their
families from it. If you wanted to have crab or shrimp,
you would just throw out whatever bait out the window. Literally,
we've heard this from you know, the great the grand

(28:54):
kids or whatever relatives of folks who remember the memories
of sitting out a line to to to crab ab Um.
So people lived off this creek and they had they
earned a living off this creek. So they began the
city began to dump into the Marshaland area, and um,
that caused all kinds of problems as you would imagine,

(29:15):
and from else to rodents um and also flooding, and
that's what we're contending with now. So um. You know,
when you talk about taking, they didn't just take land.
They took natural resources from black folk over time. It's
interesting that it kind of comes in at both sides
for both kind of addressing this side in which like

(29:37):
weather disasters and natural phenomena, you know, what happens from
those impact black people. You know, it was very reminiscent
to me. I'm in New Orleans right now, and so
it's making me think of females response after the Hurricane Katrina,
right um. And so then sort of forecasting forward to
like what this can mean for our environmental justice struggle
going forward if we don't get climate change under control.

(29:58):
We already got the we got the seats for what
they do when this happened to our communities on the
other side, like like h form of like racial terrorism,
people don't think about when you mess with somebody's natural
resources and like the land and the waters from which
they draw life. And so you got that time too
linked in with this like narrative running throughout all of

(30:18):
our histories, um as black people of just like theft
and then some more theft and look, oh you know,
I'm just doing a little bit more of that. Let
me just have that and have that. You're using that?
Oh you are, you're using it? No, no, no, you're
not using that. I'm gonna have that, thank you. Um So,
what so what does this mean for you all today?
With regards to demands You're continuing to raise your local
government in other ways, you're elevating this issue, you know,

(30:41):
not unlike so many people. Uh probably not unlike some
of the work you're you're involved with, Mariah um uh
and not unlike the homies in New Orleans. Shout out
to Pichon Battle and scrape. Request is just two people
who I've worked are done some projects centering some of
their work over the last couple of years. UM. You
know what it means is that we have to again

(31:04):
educate folks on the history. Let folks know that you
know those memories that your grandma, your auntie, your uncle's
kind of told you about, those those you know, these
are real people. So like reanimating some of those figures
from the past so that people can make a connection
to it. And we've done that. I think we've done
that well, not just alone but with other partners that
we've collaborated with. UM. So we've told the story by

(31:25):
leveraging the public archive again something I had learned from
my my brother and this cyrus buffum um. And and
so once we we told the story, and then we
we go up against the powers that be. We make this, um,
we make this amazing case. And y'all get this, get this.
This was What really gets me is that we've got engineers,

(31:45):
We've got um we've got scientists, we've got people who
run the local aquarium, we've got all types of educators. Uh,
I mean it runs the gamut. And not to say
the credentials mean everything, but we've got all these credential
folks saying, hey, don't feel this creek anymore, because that's
what we're fighting currently. We're fighting the feeling of the
remaining four acres of of of title Wetlands is still

(32:07):
an operational title creek there that they have yet to
fill to build luxury condominiums and whatnot. And so, um,
we we made this compelling case. Public outcry has been
on our side. The majority of people who who gave
public comment at hearings, Um, they've been on our side.
And not only that, the kicker was our mayor took

(32:27):
his took his raggedy self over to Amsterdam because you know,
the Dutch know how to live with water, right, that's
that's you know. I've been over their shout out and
it was great. Um, So they went over there for
this thing called the Dutch Dialogues, came back and continued
this Dutch Dialogues like series here where they performed caring,
they performed listening to what the Dutch said. The Dutch

(32:49):
on top of all of our friends who are experts
and engineers. The Dutch said, yeah, don't feel the creek.
Revitalize it, um, restores title functions so it can drain
that flooding that was caused by you know, decades and
deck age of filling and dumping um. But nonetheless you
know the interests, the powers that be, the mayor um
and who is a developer who was into commercial real

(33:10):
estate before he took office, and he took over for
Mayor Riley, who a lot of people like to put
up on high esteem after mother Manu. But Mayor Riley
was an ambitious developer. For forty years, forty years we
had run mayor forty hyper tenure, like on another level,
for forty years we had one mayor who was a
real estate developer in that seat. And he is literally

(33:32):
if you look at since his data, he literally had
flipped the black population, which was in the majority when
he took office in late nineteen seventies. He flipped the population.
And while I'm bringing that up in this conversations because
we're trying to we're trying to tell people that this
was part of the plan the whole time. And some
of the actors, some of the last names and bad
actors now well literally their fathers were a part of

(33:56):
the original plans in the seventies to fill in developed
this area and to expel black people, black family, black history,
black culture, and to bring in you know, more more tourists,
more white folks, more affluent white folks, et cetera. So
right now, even though we've we've made our compelling case, um,
they're not listening. So we're gonna take you to the courts.

(34:18):
And that's where we're at right now. We're taking one
of the chief developer West Edge to court in June. Um. Yeah,
And so currently, uh, we are you know, we're going
through a lot of things, depositions and and things like that.
So like, what what do you think it is that
y'all need? Because, like you said that, you've been working

(34:38):
at this for a while, So what is it that
you think you need at this moment that would like
push it over the top because of public outcry is
at a high pit and you guys are doing all
this stuff and you know what I mean, you're they're
still resisting. Like what do you think could push you
all over the top? Yeah, Like, first of all, even
being go ahead, all right, I was listening to moments

(35:00):
talked about when we met a couple of weeks ago,
Like okay, what we're the tactics of like the Lennontown project,
and like we told you about them, and it sounded
pretty much like what y'all did. It's like, well, y'all
must be up against some like especially evil people. If
like y'all have done, it sounds like even higher degrees
and we did with letting down and they still trying
to resist y'all. But yeah, what what was it was?
He I'm interested in here as well? What's your analysis

(35:21):
of Yeah? Yeah, the yeah, well you know, um get
that's like a heart I think I had an answer
that I'm like, but no, I think being here is helpful.
Like seriously, one thing about Charleston they lose is public
like national exposure. They little they might they'll deal with

(35:44):
a couple of us tree huggers, you know. Um, But
when it becomes a story um in New York Times,
because we've seen the tourism industry, or rather I call
it the Antebellum industrial complex, we've seen them respond to
perhaps you know, some stories that I've been involved with
in the New York Times or other stories in the
Washington Post about about some of the things that they

(36:06):
do here. The um. So I think more exposure always helps. Um.
I think more we we love ideas, the call we
have with you Mariah. UM was so just so important
because we were doing a lot of the things that
you were suggesting, Which is not to say that, oh yeah,
we did that, No, it was it was validation, so
being in community with other folks and learning new things

(36:29):
because you also put us up on games, so we
learned new things. But also it was validation to hear
that Okay, yeah, leveraging the archive, that's a good step. UM.
Getting the elders involved, UM. Shout out to Mr John.
We were just over there yesterday, UM holding space with
him and walking the creek and talking to him about
upcoming legal action and how he's gonna participate. And so

(36:50):
like having these partnerships with people who've been a part
of that community, even if they moved away, UM bringing
them back in. And our recent UM a recent part
ner CAJUM, which is uh, it's like a Christian a
Christian justice ministry activist group. Well, they rolled deep, six
thousand strong. We're having a huge rally on April four, UM,

(37:12):
and we're we're holding the mayor's feet to the fire.
And even though he won't come and participate in this
action that we've asked him to come and participate in
pledge that he won't fill the creek. The the optics
of having you know, hundreds of hundreds, if not a thousand,
people show up and n advocate for this, this area,
this neighborhood is going to help put us a little

(37:34):
bit over the top. But I think more exposure and
more collaboration with other like minded groups, especially in the South.
People really do not give the South enough credit for organizing.
The blueprint is here. We know this, we know this historically,
and so UM just continue to build partnerships across the
Southeast has been really important. Yeah, and then two things

(37:56):
I wanted to like go back and just highlight. One.
Mayor had to go across the ocean to find the
white people that live amongst Water in order to get
their confirmation that like you, like you should live amongst Water,
despite the fact that there was a rich and vibrant
community of black people probably right on the street from him.

(38:18):
I was doing it. It It was like, yeah, look, we're
out here doing it. It's like, I don't know, I
gotta find I gotta find the whitest white people. I
have to consult with the whites first. It's not real.
It's not real unless you have white man telling you,
you know, with a with a nice you know, with
a funky accident, no shade, but like you know what
I mean, it's not it's not real unless you do that.
And to your point, yo, like like Charleston is the

(38:38):
cradle of slavery. Charleston is the cradle of slavery. My
last name is tied so directly to one of the
biggest uh, you know, traffickers of Africans and slave Africans
Gadsden right, um. And so I'm bringing that up because
the African people that they stole came from certain coastal

(38:58):
regions where they had the best like I guess, they
were engineers. They were. They were these brilliant scientific minds
that also worked with the water and and also taught
white folks here how to how to irrigate, how to
create these rice fields, you know, more more land and
soil was moved to create these these rice plantations then

(39:20):
were moved for the pyramids in Egypt, and so to
just imagine the brilliance. And then when you when you
learn more, y'all, when you learn more about the Gala
Gichi traditions of living with water, surviving hurricanes, preparing and
rebuilding communities after hurricanes and things like that. You know,
why wouldn't you tap those resources because there are there
are so many black oystermen, black fishermen, crabbers, you know,

(39:43):
all types of folks who live off the water. You you,
you know, this is not a lofty thing, is to
see a black man with the boat in Charleston, you know,
because that's that's how people live and and and enjoy nature. Um.
And so yeah, he went all around the world, and
I I I when you could just went down the
highway and and really and just really tap some like.

(40:03):
And that's the thing about Charleston. They will not they
will not look to black people for that brilliance, you know,
they will not look and seek that out. The gyms
are brilliance among us here. They rather go across the
globe um to get that white European validation. And that
that just shows you their priorities and how skewed they are.
So it's hard enough that you guys are dealing with

(40:24):
the city and everything like that. But how is like
the effects of climate change effecting something the fight that
you guys are. I don't know if I'm gonna be
here like in five years. Seriously the look Okay, so
this is my story. Jersey girl born and raised. But
my dad semi retired when I was in tenth grade.
So I actually finished high school down here, but I
was pune out because Charleston was just too regressive. I

(40:48):
wanted to be near culture and I and went to
I went to undergrad in the New York metro area. Um,
I'm saying that because I remember being here. Flooding was
the thing. We're below sea level. Charleston has been below
sea level. That's not a secret. Flooding was a thing,
but it wasn't this thing. When I came back around
to see us, I didn't know about sunny day flooding that.

(41:08):
You know, the water just it's just it's just, you know,
the table is full, like literally below us. And a
lot of people like to talk about and shout out
to my My homie also part of the fo g
C click amaring Um from Pratt. She and her her
her comrades at Pratt up in Brooklyn. They actually did
a lot of district a lot of research for us

(41:30):
regarding tips. And I'm bringing head up because they've also
been telling me about Hey, yeah, you're worried about the
storm surge and other sea level rise, but you're not
worried about the sea level rise that's like beneath our
feet and so rainy Dave flooding is one of like
a byproduct of some of that that there's water, uh
that we don't even we don't even know how to

(41:50):
deal with that's coming up. So when it's brilliant and
beautiful days like today, we went we were out in
back to Green yesterday there were puddles all over the place.
It wasn't any rain at least in the last for
eight hours. So so what is that. So so you
have that and you have um, you know, when it
when it rains even for literally twenty minutes and not
nothing torrential, just regular everyday drizzle, it can literally shut

(42:14):
down the main thoroughfares for students and families to get
to school and work. And so lots of kids have
stayed home in this specific area. And that's pretty much
consistent around the peninsula. They've been filling in the marshaland
of tidal creeks all around the peninsula for so long
that it's it's just exacerbated this issue. And now the

(42:36):
tail of two cities. Back the Green, you'll go on
a rainy day, you'll see sandbags on everyone's front stoop.
But over on like south of broad Street, where the
more affluent, affluent area is, you actually have people hiking
up their houses. They're jacking up their houses because they
know that sea level rise is imminent. It's coming. Yeah,
so you know when you come here, you'll see two

(42:58):
different approaches. And you know, black people can't lift the
projects up. You know, we didn't do that. But um
also again shows you the priorities of the city as well. Yeah,
I think we've talked about it before. Is the kind
of one of the issues that you know, kind of
gets overlooked when people are talking about climate change is
how it's gonna affect poor people and marginalized communities quicker

(43:21):
than it's gonna think those that don't have to live
like that. Yet, one thing I wanted to circle back
to the second man once talks back to was um
public education around this history um as I I mean,
I feel like it's something we did well, but also
with engaging like newer generations GENC and folks like that,
I'm working with like elders and art community to think

(43:42):
about how we can reach them. I mean, we have
like technologies that they never even seen, like they might
have heard of TikTok or something like very foreign to them,
and so kind of engaged in like like a like
a almost like an ideological tunnel around like we're trying
to open. That's one of the demands a Balend Town project.
They wanted a black history museum built, and we got

(44:02):
the you know, the space for it carved out. We're
working out you know, the funding, etcetera. But really like
the contents of it are like of a lot of
debate because like they want to have some photos of
their like grandparents or something like. But what if we
had like a virtual reality like simulation or you could
walk through and see the neighborhood, so like things like that.
So I'm wondering, like, for you, what have you found

(44:23):
to be a success or struggles as you have encountered
with regards to educating people in the history. Yeah, that's
that's why I'm on twitch, right. So one thing about me,
um is I'm on Twitch. I'm I'm probably I'm trying
to think. Um, I'm probably one of the older members
of Friends of Gas and Creek in forty one and so. UM.
But one thing about me, I know that the work
has to remain nimble and dynamic, and so it's it's

(44:45):
I'm not afraid of technology. UM, I've embraced it. I've
I've gone back to the school and whatnot, and I've
just literally just you know, taught myself to do everything
from podcasting to creating digital content across different mediums and
UM and do that. I've learned a love of sharing
that information. I've seen a really favorable response. Take take

(45:06):
for instance, UM, Black History Month that just passed. UM,
I didn't want to just do the regular not no shade,
but I didn't want to just do if you know
about Charleston's history, you know a lot about den MARVC,
which I did pay tribute to him. I wanted to
pay tribute to two women, UM, like Mary Moultrie who
led that famous hospital workers strike with corrector Scott King. Um.

(45:26):
You know, after MLK was assassinated. This was one of
probably arguably one of the more more significant moments in
civil rights history. Is not paying this such, but it
was so tremendous in terms of you know, you organizing
hospital workers that were predominantly black and women. Um, but
when I when I started to create content around Mary Moultrie,
everyone knows her story. But when I created TikTok's or

(45:47):
or reels, when I tell people that, hey, we had
this public art space or this this entertainment hall called
the King Street Palace or the County Hall where MLK
talk spoke at and even farra Con and Salt and
Pepper and Biggie Small notorious b I g I was
it was written as bigg Small as the paper. But
but you know, like, look, black, blackhood, black culture used

(46:08):
to be a people because they've done so much to
erase our contributions. So to your to your point, there
is a museum being built and it does have some
controversy there because it they're trying to put all of
Charles's black history inside of this museum. And it's not
doesn't sound similar to what you just mentioned. It's not
from the people by the people. It's it's from it's
from the same developers who want to say, hey, we

(46:29):
did this thing and now shut up black people. You know,
we gave you this. And so it's more so as
trying to the predecess the mayors that that preceded the
current one. But but to that point, that's why it's
important to create these digital spaces where um, like a TikTok.
I went to to the Disabled Museum in Chicago back
in November and they had the virtual reality headsets and

(46:53):
they put us right there at the March on Washington, Uh,
you know, March on Washington with MLK, and like, what
would it feel like for my mom to sit there
and put that on or my dad to put those
you know, put that on? An experience that we can
do that here with our history and culture. So it's
something that we're talking about. I think that's something that
I'm more so passionate about because I'm in this text
space to trying to make this information more accessible. Um

(47:17):
and so I I love the question because it just
it it gives you endless possibilities of what we could do,
how organizing could look like, what it could look like. Definitely, definitely. Well,
I mean one thing I definitely struggle with. It's funny
my older colleagues. I'm the youngest person on the commission,
and so there was like, how do you how are
you always getting these young folks to apply for these

(47:37):
boards and authorities and like showing up to speak and
they're like kind of mad about it. They don't like it.
And then the elders of my community are like, well
I didn't hear about that. I'm like, dang, like I
only you know, posted about that on Instagram or whatever,
like I also need to be mindful of like, uh,
multigenerational ways of of informing all of you know, the public,
because you know, our movements have to be multigenerational. Um.

(48:00):
But yeah, I mean, I think I appreciate the ways
that you bring in new media's um because the young
folks are going to be the ones to care of
the struggle forward after all of us sitting here are gone,
you know. So that's so I appreciate you for that.
I'm gonna take some notes something like but but but
I guess let me answer you a question at bit
more directly, like so i'm creating this content, I'm talking
to the elders, right, so I'm not And I'm like,

(48:22):
oh no, this woman and she used to live here
and she gave me a little tidbit. And so listening
to our older generations has been paramount timp to my
success as an organizer and of course to our collective,
the friends of Gas and Creek. So um yeah, finding
ways to integrate you know what they have to say
has been a challenge, but a good challenge, one of
those good challenges, those good problems where you know you're

(48:44):
always finding better solutions every every month or so. Yeah,
you got any more? Did you have? I mean, did
you have something? I mean, I'm enjoy listening to y'all
talk of what else, what else working on? How else
you're working on? To other people to know about I Honestly,

(49:07):
I just need people to get on this twitch like
I I want people to not be intimidated by it.
They don't have to subscribe, they don't have to even
create an account. Push is just a website, as as
my friends always say, um, and I want to just
it's a morning show. So every morning Monday through Friday,
at eight am, I live stream for at least two hours,
sometimes I go as long as four. Sometimes in the

(49:29):
evening I do a double day where I come back
in our livestream City Council from home and we watched together,
and we prep people days in advance to submit comment
from home. Now that we have all these tools where
you know, participating in government should be and is more accessible.
So I have people submit their written or weight online

(49:49):
on the phone, but they can tune in and watch twitch.
And so I'm trying to use twitches a way to
really get into people's homes. And uh, it's a it's
a morning, it's a local morning show, and it's city
like Charleston that's doing everything in its power to displace
or to replace local voices with aggregated, you know, or
syndicated voices. Um, I my mind is a little spicy

(50:13):
now cussing the morning and me in the South. I'm
a northern girl and so I know that don't always
culturally fit. Oh my god, spicy and like so so yeah,
maybe the kiddos can't hear it in the car during
the car pool in the morning, but if people give
it a shot, they hang it long enough and they
see how dogged I am at like excavating. I mean,

(50:35):
I I just went through the mayor's received last week
and it was just conflicts of interests and people really
responded to, Oh, I didn't know his dad own this
company and I didn't know Mayor Riley created this this
foundation that's really just a development company. Through the city
using city money. I didn't know that that they created.
They have nine districts on the Peninsula alone where they're

(50:56):
siphoning off money from public education just to subsidize the
development projects. So like, that's what I like to do
and what I love about Twitches. It's not so, it's
not TikTok, it's not Instagram, and that you can have
a long form it's long form content where you can
have an extended conversation about some of these things played
in Charleston. And also we celebrate, we have fun, I
use sound effects. It's not meet the Press, it's it's

(51:20):
really dynamic and lively and you know, come check out
a girl with frizzy hair, embraces, you know, talk shit
that that things. Yeah, that'll wake up. So okay, So
where can uh what? What? What's the Where can they
find the show? Where can they find you? And what
you're doing? Sure? On Instagram you can find me at
Charleston Activist Network. UM. On Twitter, it is just me
Mika Gatz and I'm more active on that UM. But

(51:42):
twitch twitches, twitch t w I t w A. I'm
all like now now I'm like tw twitch t w
I t C h dot tv forward slash Mika gads
than m I K A g A D S D
E N. So Yeah, Twitch dot tv forward slash Mika

(52:05):
Gazon is where you can buy me and I really
the more the merrier, even if you don't even if
you're just a lurker as I call him, Even if
you're just a lurker and you don't want to participate
in the chat, come and check it out and watch
for a couple of hours if you can. Yeah, it's
one of these days we're gonna have to hop on
that stream over. Please do It's fun. It's fun. We
keep it, We keep it really lively for sure. But
thank you so much Mika for coming and joining us.

(52:27):
Um we'll see you on Twitch, yes, and um we'll
see you out here when one of these things. Yeah,
y'all invite wh I do interviews, y'all invited to come
on over definitely. Alright, y'all, that was Mika Gazon. That
was a really dope conversation. We're definitely gonna go on
that Twitch stream and talk to where we want for

(52:49):
Oh hell yeah, I want to break into the Twitter.
I want to get into all that streaming shot. I
want to I want to do. There's so much I
want to do. Ya Like, I want to make like
a YouTube channel ship, like I want to be able
to just like I want to just like drop like
week update wraps on people and stuff like I want
to do all that ship. Well, I'll tell you what.
Remember last time when I was like, yo, we're for

(53:11):
real winning on reparations. My Venmo is Mariah Parkerto. We
had one one send me fifty dollars. I'll remember your name, homie,
But I appreciate you. All I'm saying is if you're
trying to, like we're trying to, you know, like make this,
you know, expand our media empire. You can fund that
by sending Max some money on Dope knife at Dope

(53:32):
knighte on Venmo. Go to the band camp, buy some ship.
You know what. We're even gonna make a waiting on
Reparations band camp and have like exclusive audio and and
merge and some other things. You gotta straighten all that out.
But all that ship is un the work, um, but
appreciate you. Word out, um you feel like crap. Well.

(53:54):
As a matter of fact, I had a new single
come out yesterday. Oh good, you did well I mean
it's coming out. It's coming out Wednesday, but you know
what I'm saying, um, so yeah, I would love to
play all my new tunes called Necessity and top Bell Ringers.
So you can go download the single today or preorder
the album. But yeah, all those people pep this um

(54:18):
and the song goes out to all my MESSI mishies
that I don't want to say, turn their lives around,
but also like keep it keeping one hundred like in
their passion and professional pursuits. It never made me come
and this affected to oh my god, I never love

(54:40):
you your room, making your mad parnastory. The saying limps
fine to do. What I'm trying to say is a
kind of hey do but lots of hbstacles when you
ain't out your pockets fools. He just got me two
hundred dollars and buy foods. We could try to make
it work. Pictures. That's October twoteen statement safe that I'm

(55:00):
dropping in the sea of working at the university, curves
that I'm taking personally like ex gott a new girl,
but he's still pouncing on the sneak because that coach
is juicy is a cord of pounder with cheese without
the while and pretty worked listening. I'm the pous is
full of police from a tappy cat naps in the kitchen,
Cabby nitties swearing to catching mousters while he snaps. Have
been the cop with the boys because even though got burke,

(55:22):
ever since I lost the power to be what power
to clean, but power to pay the power, pay the
then it's in the hospital, pay the internet, the water,
building up the offices, and pay for kitten chousing out
the little nigga hostage like he's sending into what Cosby did,
but not off the his I just adopted him because
I needed a friend, needed somebody to be with the
seeded body heating the bed. Oh yeah, and my cat's

(55:46):
named Egg love you you know, made on never love
you from your man. Mad's a hardy cut stand straight
the saying it was fine to do what I'm trying
to say. The card and I hate you all obstacles
when you ain't got your pockets, fools. He just taught
me to under dollars and body food. We could him

(56:08):
when you work. Picture that's November three years ago. I'm
bet on the next Canada patio because my ears, a
cold chising with the canny slits and passing canadabis. So
to be clear, I didn't hit it. I'm not a
fan of it. No, I'm just chilling with this chatty folks,
because the antidope to being sad and ship stashing in
yourself into a mannequin. Open up some sugar, Daddy your

(56:28):
candidate with daddy and bumpy bucks, and make your pain stock.
He is the game. Hey, what didn ain't where you're from? Oh?
Cool bars, closed cars, home, just regard clothes, moan the
scars don't show when to morrow comes, give him not
parcel talk, give up your part. Tell low calls sometimes,
and when he calls, he thinks you're close on him
and pretty much falsome to adopt you like he's a

(56:48):
foster kid because of pottery, because you hate your body
because you're closet it and cant finding yourself what you
think that you're finding? Love him? You never made me
come just to shoot you and oh never loved you
when you're your fans are part of costance dream the
same And I'm trying to say some kind of hate. Hey, hey,

(57:10):
this is dope knife, little Frank, and you have been
listening to Waiting on Reparations. See you this week, Pierce.
Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.