Hip Hop Hooray! It's Insurrection Day!

This week, Dope KNife chats with antifascist Iraq War veteran Kristopher Goldsmith about his experiences infiltrating and sabotaging right-wing extremist groups. As well, he and Linqua speak their thoughts on how to prevent the collapse of democracy.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to Waiting on Reparations, a production of
I Heart Radio. Hey what is happening night, Franca? We
are waiting on reparation and waiting on some coup of
test results because that I'm marry on. It's no joke, man,
Yeah so yeah, I mean we were just talking before

(00:24):
we started recording. Wait, so do you think you might
got the RUNA? I might? I might. So baby was
having a fever of like a hundred and two on Saturday.
Took him to the hospital. They just gave him Thailand. All.
So that's gonna be fun to pay emergency room bill
for Thailand. All. But Thailand, you know, got him tested
for the RUNA does in case, and we're still waiting

(00:46):
to get those results back. But since then, I have
also started to not feel very well. So, um, we
see this is comparable to uh, the first time that
you got it. The first time I got it was
a matic I other than I think what ended up
actually being a panic attack, but to me registered as
chess pains at the time. Other than that was totally fine. Um.

(01:10):
And I and I also, you know, throughout pregnancy, etcetera,
have been sick multiple times this year that weren't COVID,
like you know, got tested, everything was fine. So I
might just have a compromised immune system from stress and
other factors. And so maybe it's not that. But given
the explosion in cases that we have seen in the
last two weeks, I think over a million cases um

(01:33):
reported on one of one day of this last week,
might have been yesterday, probably wouldn't be shocked. It feels
like every single person, like I've had multiple like potential
exposures like over the last two weeks. Oh, I mean
we have. We both have a mutual friend of the
show who right now suffering from it, and I mean
just I mean, I guess it's all anecdotal, but it's like,

(01:56):
you know, when the initial pandemic hit, it's like there's
definitely people who I knew who were affected by it.
And then when Delta hit, it's like, Okay, more people
that I know are affected by it. And now with
the with the new Amarian strain, oh, sh like everybody
who everybody who I know has got COVID, Like every

(02:18):
like things in Savannah starting to shut down again, you know,
I mean, everybody's canceling parties and live events and stuff
that they had going on. So um, yeah, no, it
definitely is no joke. But since you are not feeling well, ship,
let's sucking. Let's let's keep it moving, right, Let's keep
it moving. We've got lots of cheery, other cheery topics
to discuss this week. Particularly this is speaking of which

(02:40):
Happy Insurrection Day everybody, Yeah, the anniversary. Yes, So we
generally record on like early in the week, so I
don't even think we got the chance other than I
think last year we had an episode the week after
the insurrection, the attempted coup to um, we talked a
little bit about the rise of my right wing fascism.
But this is our first time to really, like, you know,

(03:01):
reflect deeply on the other incarnations of fascism in in
the United States, particularly as they have bloomed over the
last year in the aftermath of the insurrection. And we're
actually speaking you're speaking with somebody today who is an
expert on on right wing extremism and anti and you know,
anti fascist organizing from what I understand, Yeah, we're gonna

(03:23):
be talking with Christopher Goldsmith today and um, he's a
really cool guy, really interesting cat. He's an ex army
vet and when he got out, he started working with
doing veterans work and noticing that, uh, you know, some
of his brothers in arms were kind of susceptible to
you know, recruitment by right wing extremist groups, and that

(03:48):
started the work that he started doing infiltrating some of
those organizations, reporting them actually actively sabotaging their plans and
movement and stuff like that. So we're gonna be chatting
with him just about his thoughts on, you know, the
year after January six, some of the things the right

(04:09):
wing extremist groups have been up to, and just where
he thinks things are heading. So that's gonna be a
really dope conversation. But before we get into that, we're
just gonna recap some of our thoughts on January six
and talk about some of those same things. We will
be back with that after the jump. All right, we

(04:35):
are back. So, I mean, you know, I don't think
anybody who's listening to the show who's been under a rock.
Most people know what the events of January six, two tho,
you know, were, But if you don't know like the
full details of stuff, or even if you want to
like get like a full sense of the picture, of

(04:55):
full scale of what what with them? I suggested everybody
check out the Southern Poverty Law Center. They have a
extremely dope timeline of all of the events, and I mean,
I'm talking about dating back before George Floyd's murder. But
they kind of go through the rundown of all of

(05:16):
of the entire year to show you all of the
little events nationwide that we're leading up to what eventually
it took place on January six. But just to kick
it off for you're gonna read this little uh opening
of how they opened up that timeline. So on January six,
two thousand twenty one, a right wing mob stormed the U. S.
Capitol at the urging of President Donald J. Trump in

(05:38):
an attempt to prevent the certification of the presidential election results.
But the attack didn't come from nowhere. It was the
culmination of a year of increasingly radical activity by a
slew of extremists around the country. They mobilized against racial justice,
COVID nineteen prevention measures, and voting rights for all Americans,
and they were goaded on by the President and other

(06:01):
politicians on the right. I mean, I'm sorry I didn't
so similar to the aftermath of the George Floyd murder,
there was almost universal there's almost universal combination of the riot.
But just like with Floyd, it only took a few
weeks before Republican politicians began to rationalize and justify it

(06:24):
um As a congratsional investigation into the event wraps up. Now,
more and more evidence has come out about the director
involvement of Trump, his staff, and administration, as well as
various right wing media figures. You know, there's text messages
that came out between uh, talking heads at Fox News
and Trump's children trying to dissuade Trump from egging on

(06:44):
the rioters. Um that were you know, ultimately ignored, etcetera. UM.
They've been finding like all sorts of hidden memos and
drafts and PowerPoint presentations to show exactly like how like
I mean, the main thing is, it's like in real time,
like experiencing it, it seems ridiculous, you know, and it

(07:07):
seems like he he ha haw other sart of losers,
or this is funny or they're being ridiculous. But in
the you know, the time sense, it's like we found
out how calculated and deliberate this entire thing was. And
and not only that, but also how much most of
these not even most, how much all of these right
wing politicians did not believe a word of what they

(07:28):
were saying, Like none of them believe that the Donald
Trump really won the election. None of them believe it,
but they're saying it anyway. So a lot of that
stuff has been exposed and is coming out. And I mean,
one way or another, this committee is going to end
because you know, the Republicans are most likely going to
win back the House, and when they do, they're probably

(07:50):
gonna shut this ship down the next day if it's
still going on. So and this is important why I
you know, in my life of elected service whatever um
and very resistant to the like the committee ization of
everything of like, oh, let's assign that to a committee.
Let's have a committee investigate that, you know, study for reparations.

(08:12):
Let's assign that to a committee. You know, January six,
let's have a committee look into that, because it's just
where they send stuff to die like that. A year later,
like none of the folks that were encouraging this insurrection
have been expelled from Congress or even censured in a
major way. None of them have, to my understanding, been
stripped of their committees or anything like that. Uh, let

(08:35):
alone any sort of legal action taken against them for treason, etcetera. Um,
you know, we just assigned the committee, and yes, yes,
we've you know, discovered a lot of harrowing details about
it through the course of this investigation. But like you said,
probably will take back the house nubsp No's gonna happen.

(08:56):
It's shocking to degree to which Republicans have continued to
push the big lie. You know, in Cobb County this
week there is a pob County Republican Party is hosting
like a vigil for the j six patriots that you
know are being persecuted, etcetera, etcetera. Um. Like, folks have

(09:18):
just become ever more emboldened since then because nothing there
were really no consequences for I mean, you give him
motherfucker interest, they're going to take a vial or a
yard or whatever the saying is. But I mean it
really is like that there. Paul gos Are is still
still there. He's still he's still going to white supremacist

(09:40):
rallies and then going to the house. Like you know
what I'm saying, He's he's still going back and forth
like it's I don't think that I don't know, I
don't think that I don't think that it's sunk in
how like the madness of that situation. I don't think
it's really stuck to landing as much as you know

(10:03):
lives in mainstream media. They report on it at nausea,
so it's not like it's not being reporting. But for
whatever reason, from like a public standpoint, that ship didn't
stick the way that it did, you know, again speaking
in in cliches, but it's like, obviously if that was

(10:23):
like a Black Lives Matter protest, that was a bunch
of Muslim people that like we you know, you can
go down the list of like what group, what demographic
that that group could have been made of, that would
make us still be talking about it today like it
was the traumatizing national, traumatizing event that it was, you
know what I'm saying. But it's like whenever right wingers

(10:46):
do shit, ship doesn't. I don't know why, but ship
just doesn't seem to stick because like it seems like
I think this was an emblematic of like America in that,
you know, oftentimes the folks pulling the strings and inciting
the terror get away or you know, just for you

(11:07):
know who, or complicit in the crimes, but are like
big wigs of some fashion get away with ship. And
then the foot soldiers are the ones that get popped
because there have been some pretty serious consequences for a
number of the people who physically stormed the capital, even
if there haven't been for the folks that whooped them
into a frenzy. Just like how during the housing christ

(11:27):
of the two thousand eight, you best believe the folks
the men that were beating their wives because they were
losing their houses, and the folks that were turned into
prostitution or whatever because they lost their jobs, and the
kids that you know started selling weed because the parents
whole college fund for them got you know, disappeared overnight.
You best believe all those people went to jail. You

(11:50):
best believe all these people want to do, but the
Wall Street motherfucker's did not, because the people at the
top skate by and they're totally fine. No matter what
sorts of calamities the engineer, it's the people that are
doing the footwork that are that is the result of
that engineered calamity. That there are the people that go

(12:10):
to jail. I mean, I agree, I like the correct
but I mean, still there's a there's a still there's
a disparity. Though. It's like I think that like if
I hear of somebody who was, you know, participated in
the Gen six thing, Oh this person got two years

(12:35):
or oh this person got like five years or something
like that, to me, that sounds like, wow, that's like
serious consequences. But I'm I'm saying that as like somebody
who generally just generally as a you know, a ruler prinsiple,
doesn't really like want motherfucker's going to jail like that,
you know what I mean. But we damn sure know

(12:56):
that they would be handing out five and ten years
sentences like gettles if this was a Black Lives Matter protest,
you know what I'm saying, Like, like none of that
would matter. And and the thing is the thing that
kills me about like people on the left is like
like we're using all of these like qualifiers as to

(13:17):
why we shouldn't look down on this situation or why
you know what I mean, we shouldn't have as big
of a hysteria as like mainstream media, like mainstream establishment
democrats are having on it. We shouldn't be that freaked
out about the situation because oh man, they're just gonna

(13:37):
if we if they crack down on this, then think
about when they're in power, they're gonna crack down on
left wing activism and lest left wing protests and stuff
like that. It's it's like, what what planet or motherfucker's
living on they're gonna do that anyway? That's yeah, like

(13:58):
there's there's no there's no like reality that's gonna happen
where we go through another period of their being, like
you know, heavy protests on the left, that our heavy
protests coming from the left. There's no no world where
we're gonna be in that situation and Republicans or conservatives

(14:18):
and charge A're gonna say, man, you know what, we
were going to crack down on them, but they didn't
cracked down on the jam six guys. So it's cool,
like what, yeah, this is getting this that not going
to be the kid na, although you know, it's really interesting.
Like I generally try to avoid amplifying horseshoe theory because
I do think it is ultimately reactionary like way to

(14:41):
discredit the left at times, but the idea that like,
you know, the far right and the far left like
sort of meat in the middle in some ways, kind
of like if politics were a horseshoe. However, something that
I do find really interesting is the way that Marjorie
Taylor Green and Matt Gates and folks like that have
been calling for justice for the j six wrioters that

(15:03):
are being unfairly treated in prison, and like, look at
these horrible conditions in prison, and it's like, yo, we've
been trying to tell you that for so long, Like yes,
comrade Marjorie Taylor Green, Like that's that's the thing, is like,
but that's the thing is like it's all disingenuous, and

(15:23):
it's all on purpose, and it's all the oh no,
I'm absolutely playing. I'm playing. But it's just really you're paying.
There's mad people. There's mad people who don't who think
that un ironically, I mean, who like aren't playing her
like and it's it's just it's totally weird. Like when
when Marjorie Taylor Green starts talking like she's sucking MLK

(15:47):
about prison conditions and stuff like that in the context
of January six people, she's doing that on purpose. You
know what. I mean like she's purposely co opting like
language like that about like prison conditions and pstances like
they're doing they're trolling, you know what I'm saying, Like
they're they're trying to be like wink wink funny, like
ha ha ha, we're using their stuff. So you know

(16:09):
what I mean. So I don't know. I I don't
like for me, I don't necessarily know whether I'm in
the mindset of a throw the hammer at them as
an example to their friends or whatever. But I mean
when you when you you're essentially telling motherfucker's that feel

(16:30):
entitled to ship already that is good. Not only those good,
but like sit tight until y'all boys get back. That's not.
It's like none of this stuff is good, and I'm
not I'm not talking about the usual good like when
you like watch the news and ship and you're like, oh,
that's bad. I mean like this ship this is like bad,

(16:55):
Like like where where this this ship is heading? Is it?
It's January six was just a dry run. It was
just practice. It was dress rehearsal, you know what I mean.
And it's like in the year that has passed since,
you know, laws have been changed to to take away
people's voting rights. Things have been implemented to make it

(17:18):
harder and more difficult for people to vote. So I
don't know, I see them, I see them making this
play for their minority rule thing, and you know what
I mean, they're they're not slowing down with it at all.
But yeah, yeah, it's it's it's pretty shifty stuff. Do
you sorry? I was gonna say, do you recall like
your thoughts or feelings that day January? Yeah? I mean

(17:44):
I remember it was it was daytime and ship and
I don't know if you were home. I think I
may have been. Where would I have been? It's a pandemic.
Oh yeah, true, true, true, true, um, but yeah, I
like for me, it was kind of like it was

(18:05):
kind of like a uh like the O. J. Simpson
running away in the White Bronco or like even like
Christopher Goldsmith he was saying, like for him, it was
like the similar feeling to nine eleven, not like the
gravity of the situation, not comparing them in that sense,
but just comparing the like the weight of it, you

(18:30):
know what I'm saying, Like I remember, you know, there
there's certain there's certain things that have happened in in
life throughout life where it's like it happens that day
and you remember like that day, you remember where you
were when you saw it going down, you know what
I mean, Like you remember how like the room smelled
like it's one of the it's one of It was
one of those situations for me where I'm watching it

(18:51):
on TV and not knowing how it was going to
play out, me just completely thinking that the cops are
just gonna start bucket people at some point and expecting it,
you know what I mean. So I was I was
just like sitting there watching it, like, man, I'm gonna
remember this for the rest of my life, you know. Yeah,
for sure, definitely, Definitely. It felt very momentous. It felt
like a watershed moment because it was so unclear what

(19:13):
was going to happen next, Like are they gonna start
storming capital? It's all over the nation? Uh da da
da da dad. That was the day. That was the
day I got sworn into my second term, and like
I was like furiously texting the city manager like is
it safe, and people like making fun of me like yeah,
it's fine, It's like yeah, bench, you ain't never got
no lynching threats, ma'am, Like, of course you're not worried.

(19:35):
I'm not trying to stand outside City Hall get my
brains blown out by sniper on the parking deck. Like
just so much, so much uncertainty of what the larger
implications were for it in that moment of like, yeah,
where is this going? Yeah, and it could have got bad.
I mean it could have got he got so so bad.

(19:57):
I think I heard something about a report that came
out that said that there actually was like a like
you know, damn mear like Special Forces hostage rescue sort
of like team on standby while all the ship was
going down. So the question was like, okay, how come

(20:19):
they didn't go into action? Why were they implemented? And
it was like, no, no, these dudes don't. Like these
dudes go to clear building and nobody standing up when
they're done, you know what I'm saying. So it was
kind of they were on standby pretty much waiting like
if that door, you know, the door where um Ashley
Babbitt got shot, But they're pretty much standing by like

(20:41):
waiting to see if that door was gonna get breached,
and if that should have gotten breach, there would have
been some like operators just clearing out the clearing out
the capitol, and some of these gravy seal guys would
have ran into like the real deal ship that they
that they like to pretend to be, you know what
I mean, And then that would have created a ton
of martyrs, and then we'd be sitting, you know, it

(21:02):
would be sitting in a completely different I'd argue, even
worse dynamic with the situation than we are right now.
But it's like if if the next election comes around
and they make another play at this sort of thing
and they do it in a more organized sense. I mean,
it's like kind of like backing. It's like backing the
rest of the country into a corner to where you

(21:22):
either sit back and let them do it or you
confront them on it. Yeah, you know, Um, let's get
into some of these statistics and stuff like that from
last year and the year before it. So in the US,
the number of hate crimes targeting black people jumped nearly
forty and the number of hate crimes targeting Asian people

(21:47):
jumped near a rose by sev. The actual number of
reported incidents targeting Asian people last year, it's relatively small,
with two hundred and seventy four crimes compared to the
targeting black people, but still it's increase. Nonetheless, in there
were two thousand, seven hundred and fifty five reported incidents

(22:09):
targeting blacks and Black Africans and people living in the
US man Overall, in the United States, hate crimes rose
by six percent, according to the FBI. And what I
really hate Like I hate I hate violence and office
forms um except for like punching Nazis. However, like I

(22:30):
hate that the conversation around hate crimes devolved into like
interracial like competition for like who should be like who
should be protected under the law, just various things, various
things like black folks saying like oh, like in the

(22:51):
phase of things like the Atlanta SPA shootings, like well,
you know we didn't see all saying black lives matter less?
Why shouldn't be? Yeah, no, we should ban together first
of all. Like I don't think hate crimes laws a
particularly the best way to deal with these situations. I'm
always for like actual preventative measures like the radicalizing folks

(23:12):
through education, etcetera. But like the fact that it turned
into this pisson contest of like whose lives are in danger.
More like, bro, why don't we all band together and
get you for all of us? Like everybody please to Yeah,
I love all of y'all, A love my Asian brothers
and sisters. I love black people, you know, African immigrants,

(23:32):
all y'all, we're all cool man, let's all get it
and we're all we're all going through it together too,
so you know, like it would behoove us to band
together and strike the numbers and all that does. Um.
The agency of the FBI considers criminal incidents to be
hate crimes if they're motivated by bias towards race, ethnicity, ancestry, religion,

(23:55):
sexual orientation, disability, gender, and gender identity. There were seven thousand,
seven hundred and fifty nine criminal incidents reported and ten thousand,
five hundred thirty two related defenses that were considered hate
crimes last year by the FBI. The majority of hate
crimes more than involved intimidation of victims. Well nearly forty

(24:20):
six percent were either simple or aggravated assaults. A total
of murders were reported as hate crimes, which is probably
an undercount UM given like the weakness of our hate
crimes reporting laws and mechanisms. But these statistics, um said

(24:42):
I started going off with then not even reading thing. Um,
there are more than eighteen thousand agencies in the United
States and more than three thousands did not submit their
crime statistics. In what thoughts on that? I am? That's
the phrase again, Like I said, I think beefing up
like are like I think beefing up our hate crimes,

(25:04):
reporting laws and infrastructure, let's say, is only as helpful
as it allows us to identify underlying causes and eradicate them.
So like, just like just knowing how many people, like
I guess that's helpful to know how many people can
beat the funk up and stuff. However, like, what are

(25:25):
we doing? What are we doing with this information other
than just like honestly kind of fearmongering make people afraid
to like take the subway or walk home alone at night,
which you know, if they should be afraid, then that's valid.
But like, what like other than that, what is being
done with this information? Are we are we using it
to analyze what is radicalizing people into violent extremism and

(25:48):
changing our school curricula to foster more appreciation of diversity
and inclusivity. No, we're not doing any sort of ship
of like an actual quantitative to like measure results pipeline. Well,
I mean I don't know that. I don't know that
nobody's doing that, but I mean you you definitely can

(26:09):
use that information to like kind of check the to
kind of like take like a temperature. You know what
I'm saying. It's it's not to me, it's not. It
seems like it makes you know, like logical one plus
one equals two cents, that the pandemic happened, and that
stupid people are like harassing and attacking Asian people, you

(26:32):
know what I mean. So it's like like that like
it gives you. It gives you. You can you can
use that to take the temperature that it's like, Okay,
there's this thing that's happening in the world in the
news and now violence is increasing against Asian Americans. You
can work. Yeah, I shouldn't say that, no one is.
But I mean it's similar to how when they took

(26:57):
you know, it's like they took Trump off of Twitter,
and quantifiably they could tell oh, okay, there's not as
much hate speech going on on Twitter, like like the
the amount of the amount of hate speech that was
generated on Twitter, like dropped significantly over the year. That
like job hasn't been on there doesn't mean he's responsible
for race speech, but it just meant what is like

(27:17):
causing effect, you know what I'm saying. So yeah, I
think that the like hate crime numbers can be used
in that sense where it's like, man, you know, if
you if you look in the last ten years and
then all of a sudden, you know, like you get
to year five and then the ship jumps up. You know,
you gotta kind of look at the factors that are
going in and what's happening, what's causing those numbers to jump,

(27:38):
even if it's not like scientific, just to give you
somewhat of a sense. No, that's absolutely valid. And I
do imagine there's a lot of scholars studying that kind
of thing. I imagine the folks in the sun probably
lost and it probably study that kind of thing. I've
been on briefings with UM like fair Fight where they
have looked at election misinformation and right wing violent extremism

(27:58):
targeting elected officials, like they are keeping track of that
stuff UM within their organization for Georgia. And so I
guess my question is to what degree are these things?
Is this knowledge being taken up by actual governmental bodies,
like it's the FBI, do it? Are they too busy uh?
File training intercepting like black liberation movements? How would you

(28:22):
use that information, councilwoman? Um? I mean, okay, well, let's
be clear. Local governments can only do so much. I mean,
if I were, if I were like Chairman Parker or whatever,
but going to make sure there's no racism on this block?
I yeah, I mean, but governmentally, like considering restrictions on,

(28:48):
you know, within the f c C of what sort
of stuff that folks can be posting or amplifying or
since or you know, somehow bringing the hammer down on
h corporations like Facebook that have significantly contributed to contributed
to the amplification of right wing the violent extremism. You know,
they were shown to be fundling people in the Q

(29:10):
and on and ship like that. What where are the
consequences for that? Um? So, I think efforts like that
could be I mean, like, aren't my effectively promoting censorship?
I'm like, yeah, I'm not trying to get people killed
out here because somebody thinks that. To ask you your
thoughts on that, So I mean, like, because we're about
to get into this next group, because we're gonna go

(29:31):
down a little rundown to some of the groups that
were active in it, and and who's on the scene
right now. But what do you feel about that, like
in a quilt to or in a in a effort
to prevent right wing propaganda from spreading? Like what are
your thoughts on just the argument of speech and free

(29:55):
speech and and how that's applied and censorship and d
platforming and you know what I mean, when when to
do it, when not to do it, when to even
talk about it or mention it? Is it fundamentally just
from a principal standpoint and no go free. So this
gets into like what could the stand to be used for?
Like you were saying, you'd look took it to a
different level and I hadn't thought about before and appreciate that.

(30:15):
So if we consistently see um rises in hate crimes
like correlated with certain sorts of like um, let me
pay for a second with Okay, if we start to
see a correlation between an increase in hate crimes and
proliferation of certain kinds of rhetoric um hate, you know,

(30:38):
hateful rhetoric against a certain group, like Oh, Trump in
the news this week talking about how Mexicans are rapists.
Next week we saw like twenty two aggravated insults against
people who looked Hispanic or something like that. Perhaps not
as cut and dry, but like like when you aggregate data,
you can probably see significant trends of that sort that

(31:00):
can then inform policy to say, all right, this is
this is causing violence. This this sort of like messaging
is causing violence. So we're gonna crack down on it.
You can't say the ship, not because we want to
restrict your free speech, but literally you weren't sighting violence
against people. You're putting people. I mean, if we just
go back to right, Dylan Ruth kills all those black

(31:27):
people in the in the church, writes a manifesto. More
or less, I'm mega right. Charlottesville happens, Heather Higher gets killed.
Everybody there is. That's you literally called the Unite the
Right rally. We're all mega right, um homie in the

(31:49):
Texas church. I think it's maybe dude walks in body armor,
sprays everybody up, white dude, and it's white church. He
ended up being mega park Land shoot that's a MAGA kid.
Um fast forward to today around this time, who's the
kid that just uh, I forget where that was. Guy,

(32:10):
there's so many of them. But a kid went to
his school and he shot I think he hit like
a like a football player and a couple of other kids.
It just happened just like a couple of weeks ago.
But that kid's the one whose parents went on the run.
Remember here, Yeah, I remember that kid. Yeah that was
that was that that was a MAGA inspired incident. And

(32:32):
then taking us back to last week, um where uh,
all right, philosopher went on a murderous rampage in Denver
and killed five people. Again being cliche, but if those
are just like five or six incidences that have happened

(32:53):
in the last five and six years, and like, for real,
if even one of those things was done by al Qaeda,
we would be invading a country right now. Not that
I'm saying that's what we should be doing, you know
what I'm saying. I'm not like like, that's not what
I'm saying, But it's just like there is something alarming
to me, the amount of malaise towards it. You know,

(33:17):
it's just it's just I just don't see it. Just
like with the January six thing, I think that all
of these incidences are just gonna keep being more frequent
than they are right now because like everything is embolding
people and people aren't being held to account for these things.
Like I'm not I'm not working with the cops and

(33:39):
I'm not working with the police state. But I'm also
not gonna be stupid and like let right wingers run
game on me so that I don't protect myself, you
know what I mean. So I'm not looking out for
my own best interests in the name of like some

(34:00):
esoteric like political like theory of like well, I mean,
you know, because like I wouldn't want the police states.
It's like, no, we don't want the police state to
be used against people because we largely feel that it's
it's used unjustly and unfairly in at the behest of
the powerful. Well, let me put it this way, but

(34:21):
like when people are actually acting in bad faith and
like with insidious like plots trying to harm like everyone else,
I'm sorry, I just I can't be like but it
slide because let me put it this way, I don't
think prison is a good place for these people that
I don't think putting them in prison is going to

(34:42):
make our community safer, because in prison, without access to
your family or TV or Twitter or whatever, you're going
to join a white supremacist game. If you weren't in
one already, or if you were in one already, you're
gonna like get a swastick, it's at it on your
neck and lift uh, you know, do squads or whatever

(35:03):
in the yard with the Nazis and become more hardened
and really hate the state more because they've imprisoned you.
So when you get out, if you get out, you're
gonna be worse than when you went in there. Now
that I'm saying people need all accountable, it's just I'm
adding nuance to the like the bail, like, well there
should be accountability. I don't want these same slides. I
don't know this ship slide either. I'm just worried about

(35:25):
the further radicalization of people as a result of incarceration. No,
it's a it's a totally fair and good point. I
would just argue that in this scenario, I think it's better,
Like I really do. In this scenario, I think it's

(35:47):
better that these these guys. These people be in situations
where they are tattooed on them and they are you know,
I mean joining White supremacist gate. Like, like, the the
threat right now is not like like a street level

(36:08):
insurgents of you know, like right wing extremism, although that
is a threat, Like that's the like as far as
in the context of what I'm talking about, that's like
the Dylan Roof type stuff, or it's like the sort
of attacks that I've been like, you know, listening down
like that street level like we're gonna do something. I'm
a lone wolf. I'm gonna do something. All that stuff
is gonna increase. But like the more dangerous aspect long term,

(36:32):
like that ship is like immediately dangerous to the people
who are caught up. You know what I'm saying. If
if you have the misfortune of being at that location
when that lone wolf does that thing, and that sucks.
But I just mean, like a broader, more general danger
is that if these guys aren't like being driven to
like those margins where it's like, oh, man, I'm in

(36:53):
the Nazi gang, you know what I mean, Or man,
I went to jail so that I got the tattoo
the swast my eye and shipped like that. They they
they get to like they get to fucking slither into
the you know what I mean, undercover and and get
their their thoughts not marginalized and adopted. I mean, we
had the Republican parties is wide open for this ship,

(37:17):
and it's simply just a matter of which way they're
gonna go in the next five ten years. They've always
had all of the they've always been with the ships,
with the bullshit that they've been with. But like now,
I think we face the threat of if this like
right wing extremist ship gets normalized even more than it
already is, you're gonna have an entire political party just

(37:40):
like outright adopted, you know, because they haven't yet for
all of those For as that ship insane as the
Republicans are right now, they're lad, you know, pretty much
is still led by Trump World. And Trump World has
no principles and no real belief system, you know what
I'm saying, there's no there's no real ideology and Trump World.
But if they start adopting this like like we're you know,

(38:03):
we're gonna like talk a little bit briefly or not
even we've talked about Patriot Front before they were the
group that marched in Washington a couple of weeks ago.
But like, for example, that should comprised the twenty year
old yo in eighteen year old and you know, like
in in in ten years, if those guys are, if

(38:26):
those guys like don't face any consequences for their ship,
none of them have to go to jail where it's like, oh,
I'm gonna get us lost his tattooed on my face.
I'm just gonna end up becoming a cop or a
judge perhaps perhaps or a real estate agent or landlords.
People are already real estate agents and cos and landlords,

(38:46):
Like I don't We're not gonna avoid that from happening.
That's what these people already are. But I would say
I don't have a clear answer for what accountability would
look like for these people, because perhaps they are too
far gone. I also know that when people are back
into a corner, they bite, you know. Um, that's we
see with folks that are out here slaying maths and
killing each other and my fucking neighborhood. And that is
equally true of people that feel marginalized for made up reasons.

(39:10):
But oh, I'm so oppressed because I'm a white real
estate agent. UM, but like feel oppressed or marginalized ideologically,
UM that tends to like sometimes retrench the white people
already feel. But again, I don't have a clear answer
for it, other than like, I think the reason why

(39:31):
Republicans um pursue austerity politics so hard is to keep
alive these racial resentments and uh between like the white
and black working classes. Like, if we pass things like
a federal job guarantee, you couldn't claim anymore than Mexicans
are stealing your jobs. If we did things like free
higher education and a lot of these you know, white

(39:54):
folks that just come home from work at the auto
shop every day and put on Fox was could like
develop some critical thinking and maybe realize that like black
people are the people, ETCeteras. Like I think a lot
of these things could, over the long term, helped transform
the situation that we're in. And that's the kind of
thing I always advocate for. Like there's no perfect system

(40:15):
of accountability. I don't even know if a state is
capable of developing such. But like the ending, this kind
of violence is ultimately incumbent upon UH. Thus state to
investing communities in a way that like just keep people
from becoming this mentally deranged. But anyway, UM, if you
want to, if you want to get into the interview,

(40:35):
we can. We're gonna take a little break, y'all, and
when we get back, we're gonna have that interview that
I had with Christopher Goldsmith, Nazi hunter, extraordinair, and we're
gonna get his thoughts on January six and some of
the stuff that we've been talking about so far. So
we will be back with that after the job. All right, people,

(41:03):
what is happening? We are back? All right? So we've
got uh now, a friend of the podcast. Um, it's
my Homies, a CEO of something called Spavarious, which he's
going to explain to us. He's also an Iraq war
vet and a Nazi hunter. I want you to you know,
I wish I always say this whenever I introduced people,

(41:26):
but like I wish that this was live so that
I could get like a crowd response to you know
what I mean. But I wish everyone could make some
notfou hopie, Christopher Goldsmith, what's happened? Christ how you do?
What's happened? Brother? It's good to be kind of back, yeah,
kind of that kind of back. Well when when I
you know, I just gave you an introduction like that,

(41:48):
like with all with all of those things, what exactly
like would you how would you describe yourself? Like what
do you do? So? Um? I one of the one
of the most eye opening classes that I ever took.
You know, I've joined the army when I was when

(42:09):
I was eighteen, I went to a rack at nineteen,
was was out by twenty one in like some really
rough shape. I got out in two thousand seven, and
I didn't start school until so it took me that
long to kind of like put myself back together. Um.

(42:30):
And I took in economics one on one course, and uh,
it was one of the most eye opening courses in
terms of like applying names and and like like actual
um theory to things that I kind of understood but
like didn't have a name for. Uh. And one of
those things is negative externalities. So negative externalities is like

(42:55):
when a coal firing power plant is operating in your
town and and smog is like you know, just filling
your house with with all sorts of terrible stuff. That's
a negative externality, like you are paying the cost for
that power plant's operation. Right, So modern day laws, we

(43:15):
tax them, right, or we find them for for that
kind of thing. Right now, the far right, UM, you
know everything from Trump World on, They're imposing negative externalities
on all of us all the time. I mean, January
six was a traumatic event for so many of us.
UM as a New Yorker who experienced eleven from twenty

(43:38):
miles away lost. Um. You know, I personally didn't lose anybody,
but most of my friends and family, UM lost someone
who is a direct connection. UM. January six felt like
that to me, right, So all of these folks have
been putting their negative externalities on us and we haven't
had any way to impose any costs on it. So

(44:02):
I created Sparbarious. UM. There's an organization that is focused
on not just tracking and researching and reporting on the
far right, but sabotage. So I will do things like
join a neo Nazi organization of document their internal comms
and then I'll post them online so that people understand,

(44:25):
Like if they've got a Nazi in their neighborhood and
they want to take action to make sure that their
community is safe, Like I'm helping people do that. That's awesome.
So how do you like on the right Now it's
Tuesday that we're talking, But when this episode is going
to come out, it's going to be January six, the
anniversary of January six. So in the time the year

(44:48):
that's passed since then, what have you noticed about the
movement of like far right and extremist groups have has
there been any sort of rallying around that event. Obviously
there have been a couple of attempts to try and
do another one or you know that haven't really gone
gone so well for them. But have you noticed any
sort of ratcheting up of their activity in the past year? Yeah? So, Um,

(45:13):
depending on what time of day people are listening to
this podcast. Um, you know, my, my, my guests could
be wrong, but you know, my analysis of what's set
to happen on January six is a whole lot of nothing,
at least in terms of you know, what happened here prior.
But much more significant is the fact that all of

(45:36):
the extremists who are involved in January six, either they're
committing violence against their fellow Americans, police officers protecting the
citadel of democracy, uh you know, using Blue Lives Matter
flags to to hit cops right um, or if they

(45:57):
were financial supporters, or or just you know Fox News
UM audience who who are committed to the ideologies. They've
moved their operations instead of from being centralized and attacking
the capital to harassing school boards and local election officials.

(46:17):
And you know this is we have entered a new
phase in our in our history, and we're experiencing an insurgency.
You know, when I when I speak about these these terms,
when I use the term Nazi, when I use the
term fascist or insurgency or terrorism, I want to be

(46:42):
clear I'm not using hyperbole, Like I'm not one of
those uh you know, talking heads who goes on TV
every day and you know, screams that the sky is falling.
When I talk about insurgency, I'm talking about the same
stuff that I experienced when I was interrack. How they
were armed groups who are forming in their local communities,

(47:02):
who you know, put on their own branding saying oh,
we're here to protect the public, when in fact they
were there to violate human rights of those who who
you know, weren't part of their group. You know. Yeah,
so you know what's an insurgency, and insurgency UM is

(47:22):
a in organized group who's willing to use violence not
against not just against the government and representatives of government power,
be it you know, elected representatives or those in uniform
police or military, but they're also willing to use force,
violence threats against the American public. And and then that's

(47:45):
what we saw in January six. So the thing that
always frustrates me is like, you know, obviously it's almost
a cliche at this wee like to talk about the
shift of the Overton window between now and like say,
thirty forty years ago. Um. But the thing that always
gets to me is like what worries me is like

(48:08):
the stochastic terrorism aspect of things and lone wolves and
people just doing isolated acts and ship like that. But
it's like, I don't I don't even think that we're
at a point where we're waiting for that sort of
stuff to start happening more. But it's like every other
mass shooter has some sort of links to be in
like a far right extremists or trumper or fascist or

(48:31):
want to be this. So it's like I don't understand
how well I mean, it's it's a rhetorical question, I
guess I'm asking, but it's like it frustrates me that
this hasn't like successfully stuck in a mainstream sort of way,
you know. I mean, just for example, was it just

(48:52):
last Monday, like a literal a writer went on a
shooting spree in Denver? I mean, somebody who has like
eight hundred page all right manifesto printed like again cliches.
But if that was like a Black Lives Matter for guy,
or if that was a Nation of Islam guy, it
would be a much bigger deal than it is now.

(49:13):
So how do people who like are concerned about these things,
Like is there any sort of contribution that we can
get because to make things like the stick in the
national mind framer in the media escape. Because I mean,
for all the criticisms that we want to have of
establishment media, and there's there's endless and infinite criticisms to
go around, they can be useful in a case like

(49:35):
this too, you know what I mean. For they can't
be useful for propaganda, and we need we need, we
successful we need propaganda against the sort of things and
stuff like attaching the many crimes and like murders that
they're already doing before it reaches like a you know,
insane level. I don't understand how we're not able to
make those sticks. Yeah, yeah, I get that frustration. UM.

(50:02):
And you know, so what one of the things that
motivated me into this is like, I've I've always wanted
to serve my country and it's it's I did in
the military didn't work out so well. Since then, after
a few years of a dark period and recovery, UM,
you know, I've been working for nonprofits, veterans nonprofits, volunteering

(50:24):
a lot of my time and frankly like not making
any money doing it. UM. One of the things that
led me to become a researcher of any kind was
I was working in Vietnam Veterans America and found a
fake version of our Facebook page which had twice as
many followers, and it was backed up by three independent websites,

(50:48):
all with different U r l s, all branded with
Vietnam Veterans America, producing news and information about veterans benefits
like VA home loans, healthcare, and the latest on UM
bills that would help veterans who were exposed to Agent Orange,
like real true stuff. And then once in a while,

(51:09):
they would include UM a piece of manipulated news. UM
the most ingenious thing. I uh, I was impressed once
I figured out a that this wasn't just like a
rogue member of our organization trying to do a good thing,
and that it was malicious. I found a Facebook live

(51:30):
video that had been UM had been picked picked. They
picked out a local news coverage like a fifty eight
second clip from rural Massachusetts where in African American Vietnam
Veterans monument. So a black Vietnam vets monument was defaced. Now,

(51:54):
it wasn't like somebody took a chisel and hammer to
it or spray paint. It looked like some kid rubbed
some like red berries on it or something. But local news,
it's a story, you know, any time that there's like
a bad guy of any kind of conflict, that's what
they want to cover. Right. So this was a true
story where black veterans of Vietnam. Right, So those are

(52:20):
three distinct and important populations were targeted by an unknown actor.
So what this foreign entity did was it took this
fifty eight second video somehow tricked Facebook's algorithm into believing
that it was a live video and looped it for
four hours and over the real chiron that says Black

(52:41):
Vietnam Veterans monument defaced, they put this meme style text
that said do you think the criminals must suffer? And
then encourage people to do the heart emoji for no
or the angry emoji for yes. So they're taking advantage
of Facebook's algorithm on so many levels, because clicking like
is one thing. Taking the extra time to click a

(53:02):
heart or an angry emoji shows more of an investment,
and Facebook's algorithm rewards that. So that entity ended up
being run out of Bulgaria. At the Facebook page was
run out of Bulgaria if the websites were out of Russia.
UH and I spent the following two years investigating all

(53:25):
of the far all of the ways that foreign actors
target troops veterans in our families with UM online, So
everything from disinformation to identity theft, and the common thread
through all of it was UM was pushing veterans to extremes,
especially around issues of race, refugees, immigration, UM and they

(53:49):
would they would use these stupid slogans like veterans before
refugees or veterans versus m grants to divide Americans and
this Um, the years of research that I put into

(54:11):
that first report for Vietnam Veterans America. Today, I understand
it got me where I am today, but I feel
like years later I wasted my time spending so much
time looking outwardly because their goal was to radicalize Americans.
They they weren't solely responsible for the radicalization of America's Americans.

(54:33):
But at this point, the threats coming from outside our
country are not significant in in uh, in comparison to
domestic rats. You know, the cult of Trump is m
of Q and on of Marjorie Taylor Green and Matt Gates.
That is far more dangerous than anything the Russians ever

(54:54):
did to us. So where do you think it's heading? Um,
wait before before we get into that, because one of
the groups that we talked about on this episode is
a Patriot Front because they were in the news with
the march that they did recently. Um, are there any

(55:16):
other groups that you think should be on people's radar
or could you tell us more about Patriot Front and
what makes and particularly unique amongst the hate groups. So
Patriot Front is is really the group that got me
into going as far as I do in terms of
like joining these hate groups and sabotaging them. Um. It

(55:40):
came about because of a buddy of mine who I
served with in the army, who deployed in two thousand
seven and as a sniper. UM, he went through some
really tough stuff during the troops, surgeon to Iraq, came home.
He's now medically retired. The guys is brilliant. Um. He's

(56:01):
you know, built like a brickshit house and he wants
to serve his country. But Iraq broke him in ways
that he will never be fixed. And he Um. Rather
than you know, wallow and sadness not being able to
do what he wants to do, he figured out another

(56:22):
way to serve his country. He randomly joined a hate group.
Called me up and said, hey, Goldie, I want you
to help me take down this neo Nazi group that
I just joined. Like there was that was the pitch.
There was no previous discussion and no idea. So fast
forward a year later, I get laid off due to
the COVID problem, UM, and I call him back up

(56:45):
and I'm like, all right, buddy, tell me about your
neo Nazis. And that ended up being the Patriot Front. Um.
It is the gen Z's take on the KKK. You know,
people who saw the photos and videos of of their
march and d C saw the white gator, the like
neck things that they pull up over their face. That's
just the modern day clanhood. Like, you know, we laugh

(57:07):
at them because they look goofy. They look like they're
you know a bunch of Best Buy managers with the
people that yeah and like, well the clan you know,
think about how goofy a bunch of people dressed like
ghosts slow, right, and and that part of that is deliberate, right.
So the uniform um, you know, if if you're if

(57:29):
you're a marine in the United States Marine Corps, you
have a great looking uniform and that uniform tells a
lot of things about you. The the the the stripes
on your shoulder tell you tell people you know, what
rank you are. The ribbons on your chest tell people
your resume, like what you've done, how much combat you've seen, etcetera, etcetera. Well,

(57:51):
the goofy Best Buy uniforms that Patriot Front are wearing,
they've they've got bell crow on stick or is that
show like the locations that they're from the rank within
the organization, all sorts of stuff that they understand but
we as outsiders don't necessarily recognize. Right, So they have

(58:12):
goofy uniforms, but they're signaling to one another there, you know,
allegiance to white supremacy and what they've done for for
the cause of advancing their racist um propaganda campaigns. Well,
something I want you to dig a little deeper on,

(58:32):
just because you know, um, I think sometimes it's seducing
to put racism and like hate and just all this
stuff that we're generally talking about and put it in
the box of you know, this is an old man sport,
like where you know what I mean, Ay, we're just
a generation away. They're dying out and then it's all

(58:53):
gonna be Kumbaya and flowers and stuff like that. So
the aspect of Patriot Front being a gen's the sort
of grouping like a youth movement almost in a way.
And even I noticed this online with you know, the
amount of young men who follow who Stephen Crowder and

(59:13):
Jordan Peterson and so on and so forth. So like,
can you can you talk a little bit more about
about it being like a gen Z thing? Like, how
are they using their gen z nous too? Like further
this really old, antiquated ideology. Yes, so the same way
that that millennials and older generations look at gen Z
and they're like, man, when these kids grew up with

(59:34):
the Internet at their fingertips, they literally grew up with smartphones,
with tablets, uh with you know, not not like eight
bit computer games right like complex m m O RPGs,
like massive multi player online role playing games right there

(59:54):
the world that they grew up in, uh, through so
much information and at them, and we don't think about
the hard skill sets that come from daily life of
being a gen Z or connected to the internet. Gen
Z grew up watching Kim Kardashian go from some unknown
person who had a porn tape, uh, you know, mysteriously

(01:00:16):
leak to being one of the richest and most powerful
people on the planet. I mean, you know she's not
a politician, but you know she can she can make
a brand overnight, right Like she gets people to to
to act, she gets people to send their money, you
know whatever way to believe in causes. Well, so if
you're a gen Z kid and your dad's in the

(01:00:38):
KKK and you're growing up with those two influences. You've
got you know, Kim Kardashian on your phone, and you've
got Jim Bob, your your racist dad, like, you know,
influencing you and teaching you your so called values. You're
going to become a really effective propagandist. You know these
kids have have you know, basically you got a bachelor's

(01:01:00):
degree in marketing and communications. Just growing up as gen
z Like they understand what makes an engaging photo video
like that whole the Patriot Fronts march thing, like we
were all laughing at them. But people who are susceptible
to the the like whole wanting to fight for the

(01:01:22):
white race because you're a racist piece of ship thing like,
they love that stuff. So back to the question that
I cut you off, Um, where do you think this
is all heading? Because I mean, just to give you know,
I don't think that. I don't think like a literal
civil war is looming Like that sounds something like something

(01:01:46):
in a movie or a script or something like that. Um,
And I don't even really think that they mean civil
war when they talk about civil war, Like, I don't
think any of these guys are daydreaming about like urban
warfare with SWAT teams, like a warehouse matrix gun battle
with like Navy seals and stuff like I think they're

(01:02:06):
talking about, Hey, let's go into a gay youth center
and shoot it up, you know, I mean, hey, let's
go into a black church and kill everyone. Like so, like,
where do you think it is? Headache? Um? So, if
if you know, Patriot Front is able to operate completely unopposed,
the Republican Party is going to adopt straight up, like

(01:02:26):
real explicit white supremacy as their party platform, you know.
And and like, yes, the Republican Party engages in a
whole lot of that stuff, but most of it's masked
and veiled. Not every member of the gop in Congress
is as much of a piece of ship as like
the guy Paul Gossar in Arizona who hangs out with

(01:02:46):
Nick Fuentez and goes to neo Nazi conventions. Um, but
we're you know, if people don't start actively opposing these
folks and bringing it back to what we talked about before,
are imposing negative externalities or finding them or panalizing them
for the negative externalities that they're bringing to the rest

(01:03:06):
of society. That's that's the direction we're moving in. It's
it's a the coup attempt that we saw in January
six didn't stop on January six. You know, we are
seeing the rewriting of laws that are disenfranchising entire populations
of voters. UM. You know, that are making it so
that we're going to live under the tyranny of the minority.

(01:03:31):
And that's not like an if thing. You know, there's
a very small chance that Democrats hold the House in
when h McCarthy become Speaker of the House and guys
like Paul Gosar are chairing committees, they're going to be
shaping laws, running investigations, harassing UM federal agencies to the

(01:03:57):
point that they can no longer protect the of the
United States from violent domestic extremists. So, if some of
anybody wants to help you and others in the fight
against this ship, where can they go? What can they do? So?
Spar Various is partnering with human rights first, It's it's

(01:04:18):
a big nonprofit organization UM. They are primarily UM concerned
with the settlement of refugees, with helping vulnerable populations, immigrations,
and protect the human rights at home. And abroad. They
created two programs. One is called Veterans for American Ideals,

(01:04:41):
which was specifically made to help Iraq and Afghanistan interpreters
and allies come into the United States to push for legislation,
to push for administrative action to to help them get
welcomed into United States. UH. And two is the Innovation Lab.
So the Vation Lab at Human Rights First is developing

(01:05:03):
technology that is UM that is meant to protect human rights.
So that means UM, we're we've we've got a program
where it can analyze hundreds of hours of YouTube videos
and it can help us without having to have a
human being watch all of those you know, shitty videos,

(01:05:25):
help us understand how YouTube videos are being used to
radicalize American youth for you know, other targeted populations. We've
got software that analyzes videos that's meant to to detect
state sponsored violence. So things like what we saw on

(01:05:46):
in Lafayette Square when Trump ran across the street after
having cops clear crowds that were you know, vast majority
of completely peaceful with no warning. All of those videos, UH,
we're putting into an ai UM an artificial intelligence program
that is helping us learn how to detect police violence

(01:06:09):
so that we can use that not just here state side,
but overseas as well. So this the cool thing about
what we're doing at Human Rights First in the Innovation
Lab is we're making it so that the programs that
we're developed will never be used by the government, They'll
never be used by a foreign government, they will never

(01:06:30):
be used by any actor who could use it to
hurt vulnerable populations or to a road democracy. You know,
we're going to make sure that it stays in the
hands of journalists, m human rights activists, researchers and that
type of thing. So if if people want to support us,
you know, you can check out and go to my

(01:06:52):
website spar Various dot c O. You can search for
me on on Twitter online Christopher Chris with a k
old Smith. I'm pretty easy to find because my name
is spelled weird um and go to Human Rights First
and and poke around the website. Checkout Veterans for American Ideals,
check out the Innovation Lab, you know, make a donation

(01:07:13):
if if you want to support the work directly UM.
And we're also at spar Various going to be training
veterans to engage in the work that I do of
of studying and exposing and disrupting extremist organizations. That's what's up. Yeah, hey,
Christopher man, thank you for talking with us. Thanks a lot, brother. Alright,

(01:07:35):
be easy, I'll let you down the down the jump,
all right, all be good, all right. And that was
Christopher Goldsmith, ladies and gentlemen. So as you guys can hear,
he's out there actually doing the work and putting himself
in harm's way to combat some of this stuff. Um

(01:07:59):
just general really, you know, like as we wrap this up,
um like what don't just overall? Where do you think
this whole thing is heading? And my whole thing I
just mean, because it's like we're in the midst of
something new, you know, Like as Christopher was saying with
the Patriot Friend group, is like these these these kids

(01:08:23):
essentially have grown up in the era of like media
and mass communications, and all of them technically have marketing
and communications degrees just by growing up, you know what
I'm saying. So all of them are expert propagandas and

(01:08:44):
stuff like that. And with everything racing up, where do
you where do you see it headed? Where do you
think we are? If we were if we were to
have a discussion about right wing extremism in the next
like three years from now, where do you what do
you think we're talking about? I think even the shorter
charm than at like thinking about the next six months,
we have a very short window in which um Democrats

(01:09:07):
can enact bold transformative policies that substantively invest in communities
as a way to both animate the electorate to come
out and support them, to keep the fascist out of power.
And as I was saying earlier in the show, those
to have those investments also pay dividends for the people,

(01:09:28):
for the like the white folks, the real estate to
whoever who feel disenfranchised or like ideologically marginalized right now,
for them for for that sort of investment, to see
that kind of good and feel that kind of good,
you know, those tangible benefits in their lives. To cool
down the currently very heated god political climate and the

(01:09:51):
ways that it gives rides to violent extremism. Like we
got honestly, you're talking about well three years and now
like we got six months to like really really locked
the ship down, start putting like you know, material needs
of working people over civility and protocol fire the parliamentary

(01:10:12):
and like and like and like try to try our
best to buy ourselves more time through having a continued
uh democratic control over that the three houses of government.
That's what I see. I don't know what's gonna happen
after that if we failed. I don't even know if
that's going to completely solve the issue. But let's at
least like, let's put a band aid on this for now,

(01:10:34):
but at least delivering for the American people, trying to
maybe keep the House and the presidency in and like
just stave off the utter collapse for like a little
bit longer. I guess I would. I would just say,
is like I think we should all be easy on

(01:10:55):
given a lot of these cats the benefit of the
doubt and ship early. I don't know, at least for me,
I'm at a point in life where I think that
the stakes are so high that I'm just not willing
to put my life at risk by betting on some
of these basic basic human commonalities and stuff like that. Like,
I don't think that there's any right wingers out there.

(01:11:17):
If there's a right winger out there that you can
convince that Medicare for all is a good idea. They're
not including me in that assessment, you know what I'm saying.
If if like like like whatever economic anxiety that these
cats are feeling, they're not like they're like, I don't
think that, Like I think you can find a mutual

(01:11:38):
ground with them, only to a certain extent, because there's
like a whole like subsect of the population that they're
not considering or factoring to any of that good ship.
So like, like, I don't know how real that alliances
because I don't give them the benefit of the doubt,
and I think that for the most part, they're lying,

(01:12:02):
you know what I mean. So I don't I don't know.
I don't really think I believe that any of this
ship is comprised of economic anxiety or only the liberal
elites fly over us and look down, and you know
what I mean, Like, I think a lot of that
ship is lip service, and it's the lies that people
tell themselves to justify in public the things that they

(01:12:22):
want to do. Yeah, that's just me. That's just me.
So I would just say that we should just proceed
with caution, because like fascists are very aware of what
they're doing, and they're very aware of how to use
rhetoric and how to like deceive. It's like it kind
of goes in the bag with being the fascist is

(01:12:43):
like deception and ship like that. So we shouldn't let
our good nature help these funs take over this ship,
you know what I mean, and get their messages out.
That's just that's just my two cents. I'm gonna go
smoke l I think Joe is gonna bust a beat

(01:13:05):
oh sope, yeah. Waiting a reparations yeo, yeo. I think
these kids need a therapists embarrassed this Nazi what they
help us, but various they're talking all that bullshit and
I noticing how weird it is. Then they lose their
job and they crash. It's hilarious. A couple of years
ago they said the Jews will not replace it. Then

(01:13:27):
they met the consequences were bruising guys are facing, so
they had to switch their name up Patriots to stay front.
Little teenagers have to run into the same truck like that.
If Trump went again, they'll be right back. Replace the
police uniform with khakis in a white mask. So if
you want to be a blogger, that's fine, But I'm
punching Hitler like, I'm Steve Rogerson's prime mofucker. Hey, my

(01:13:57):
name's Dope Knife. I'm like, well, Franco, and we are
waiting on reparations. We didn't even tell you the Happy
New Year, you know, happy New Year. Stay safe out there,
I really, honestly, hey, it's telling people to stay safe
when the fucking federal government has abandoned. But do your best,
you know, try your best act pay for effort, kidsation

(01:14:20):
trophy for trying to dodge the Rhona. So we will
see you all next week. I'm Dope Knife waiting our reparations.
You'll take it easy. Matrix movie That's Better Winning on
Reparations is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts
from my heart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app,

(01:14:42):
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.