The Young Lords

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You are listening waiting on reparations production of I Heart Radio?
What What's good happening? My name is Dope Knife Homa Franca,
And today we are joined by the legendary Oh Ship.
What's the name of the show. Yeah, reparations. We can't
we can't tell them about the guests before we get
to the show. Yeah, waiting on reparations. Well, I mean,

(00:25):
like you know, I would love reparations, but I will
also take having Mike Satown back on the show as
a consolation prize. Oh yeah, how are you? Who are you? Mike?
A lot of people give a ship that I'm very
excited to that. You know, we're happy that you're here. Alright,
We've got Mike seats out on the show with us.

(00:46):
Mike's with us. What are we gonna be talking about today?
We're at SO today. Oh, there's all kinds of stuff
to talking about. Biden was just in Atlanta today. I'll
be before with the police Go Dogs, and our main
topic of discussion, we're gonna be talking about out Um,
a gang in Chicago in the nineties that became a
civil and human rights organization, the Young Lords, and along

(01:09):
the way discussing the revolutionary potential of street games based
on the precedent that they were set by the Young
Lords back in the nineteen sixties, seventies, and eighties. Um,
but first, what is going on? I like, what is
going on? I was searching through the news today and
I came across that story about our homie that we

(01:29):
helped out the last years of making a little progressive
stand there. So Nancy Pelosi recently made some news by
defending members of Congress trading in stocks. It was a
pretty tone deaf thing. He explation was she doesn't know,
She like has never heard the tone. She was like,

(01:50):
it's doesn't know. I support the free market and like
I even like Fox, but you even have like Fox
News in like Republican good being, Like damn, I didn't
know we were just straight up support corruption like that.
So anywhere it's a it's a it's a multipartisan. Hair

(02:11):
has bucked the trend and has introduced the bill that
would make it illegal for UH sitting members of Congress
to trade in stocks. This is like an obvious snub
at Nancy Pelosi. What do you what do you think
this means? Mari? I mean, hopefully it means that they
actually been trading on stock. I just saw recently that

(02:33):
Ran Paul was like on some radio show talking about
have room dissevere is a great COVID treatment when he
owned stock. I mean, like they they're like naked about
it out here. They're not even trying to play you,
like they're not getting a rich off of our I
don't know where the name escapes me right now, but
who was the who did us off beat? Also beat?

(02:55):
You know, David Purdue? And I remember because there was
that debate where David Purdue just to and even show
up and assof was like yeah, smiling with his little
boyish chin and it's nice eyebrows and like gesturing to
this empty podium that David Perdue wasn't sand and David
Perdue and Kelly like zoom and like body bags ahead

(03:15):
of like the pandemic some steak and zoom and ship
while everybody was using it. And I mean also you
gotta remember that like all those congressional people knew how
bad COVID was gonna be and knew that it was coming.
So when you take all of that ship into consideration,
I mean we're just talking about straight up illegal activity
right here at this point, you will talk about some

(03:35):
gangs to ship. Yeah, today we're talking about oh street
gangs like making the world better. Can we crack down
on these corporate gangsters that like be you know, doing
these backroom deals to like profit off of human suffering
much akin to a drug dealer or you know, I
don't know what sex trash just legalized. The ship is
just legalized. What do you think, Mike, I didn't know

(03:59):
that you guys hilped so yeah, back in next last January, Uh,
Mack and I so, I like was a part of
this effort, this coalition of local politicians that like raised
like Tony Grand to pay all these people who go
out knocking on doors for him and war knocking. So
Mac and I went hit the streets, was out talking
to people about going out to vote, and and y'all, y'all,

(04:23):
y'all just slid some ship in. So wait so it
was aus off and uh war knock. Yeah, So y'all
were the motherfucker's responsible for me getting like five warnock flyers.
I didn't And I've said at city Hall for our
stuff and athletes to yep, yeah, I mean that's cool,
But I've man if if Warnock wasn't that I was

(04:48):
gonna not vote for him because all those fucking flyers.
I was like, Yo, I'm already on your side, bro,
I don't need these flyers, Like couldn't like all these
trees you're killing, like gosh, map hurting you. But no,
that's that's dope, man. I didn't know that. Oh yeah
we did that. Ship, I did that. Now I have
a hot take real quick because I feel like people

(05:10):
really like Warnock because it's fiery pastor and ship. I
actually I'm personally yeah. I mean I don't have people
to him. His people his office has been really great
and like coming down to Athens trying to like get
in touch with the people. But between the stock training
thing and the fact that asof didn't didn't I mean
if he didn't vote no, but he didn't vote for
Rama Manual for Ambassador of Japan. Those two alone in

(05:34):
them eyebrows. Let's be real, I got things for skinny
white boys. Um, I'm like, yeah, you know, he might
be my favorite of I'm waiting for the be a
live streaking him to come out and for him to
do something that's gonna disappoint. But I don't want to
be like a debbut downer on the ship, you know,
because it is a hopeful thing. But in all honestly,
I think cats like Warnock and us Off really are

(05:56):
the only chances that the Democrats have, Like the only
I think the only chance so that the Democrats have
going forward is some some senator or congress person that
is not like part of the pretty much they need
like another senter of Obama situation, where like somebody who's
quasi outsider is gonna come in and like just buck

(06:19):
all the establishment trends and stuff like that. And I mean,
I don't know if as Off and Warnock are those cats,
but I mean they seem like them. And Stacy Abraham
seemed kind of like, you know, Mike's not so sure,
Mike's not so short. Not not with Warnock. I never
got the book the trend h vibe from Warnock. I

(06:39):
got it from ass Off. Warnock just seemed like he's
trying to be like the cool guy next door that
wants to be a politician. And that's fine, that's fine.
He hasn't said anything that's really grossed me out or
anything like that, so I'm fine with him. But I
never got the vibe of I'm really gonna go in
here and shake it up. We'll speaking of shaking shut up.
So Mariah is joining us after you know, her committee

(07:01):
meeting like she always does, so before Mike came on,
you were hot when we were talking. You were hot,
and I remained hot. The temperature is quite so. Um,
these motherfucker's play was wrong, bitch. Firstly, that's the that's
just the summarine. We can move on. But no, so

(07:23):
as listeners of the show, remember I was leaping with
the police chief back in December about the drug war.
Has some pretty spicy things to say about the racist
history of the drug war, and pulled actual receipts from
like historical documents about why they started the drug war
and you know it's modern day deleterious effects. So anyway, Um,
he's he's talking some shit about me, and so this

(07:44):
is my first opportunity the ship. He talked. Oh yeah,
he tried to say that like, um, I didn't care
about crime, like by name, call me out by name,
but I don't care about people getting shot and killed
out here, and called me an academic and like I
said that like pretty much said that science isn't real
because I was like bringing up all this public health

(08:05):
science about how to prevent crime and prevent like you
not do you not like read books? I don't. I'm
so confused right now. I know. It's like I only
want our kids you have right future and go to
college and then you go to college and the smart

(08:29):
who no exactly, And so it was very inflammatory, very
directedly directed directly at me. So I had my first
opportunity to be on a meeting with him this evening,
and so I was just like, hey, what's up Brown? Um,
I'm a lot of I'm just a lot of my
colleagues know that I have zero faith in his um
ability to respond professionally to reason critique, and um brought

(08:52):
in fact one of his homies fucking murdered a guy
in the park behind my house last summer, and like,
the same guy that got shot was on Facebook three
days before begging people to send him money on Vemo
because he was so desperate. A couple of days later,
he's out card jacking people and stuff get shot. So like,
if y'all really want to talk about public safety, like
y'all have fun talking about Oh, let's you know, band

(09:14):
chokeholds and like, oh used the fourth policies that none
of that ship would have saved this man's life. This
man needed mental health care. So like, y'all hit me
up when you're already to talk about some real ship.
And then I was I just pieced out. I mean,
I don't really care, like they could say whatever the
funk they want, frankly, because I'm right, I'm right, this
story's gonna know. I'm right this what's going on? Right man?

(09:38):
Like you know, every like you know at the time,
everyone tries to twist the civil rights movement to their
own agenda. But frankly, those people in that day, it
wasn't It wasn't like like eight percent of niggas was
not out there getting shot and like hit with hostes
and police dogs. There's like a little that wered and
everybody else thought they was fucking crazy and you know

(09:58):
what they was like it was out there. And then
an episode to like dive into that more because I
think that is the misconception that a lot of people have.
Even I had that misconception, so I've read into it more.
But it's like, not everybody it was a part of
the civil rights movie video, like it was the equivalent

(10:20):
of like the general population, at least for a good
chunk of the civil rights movement. The general population's reaction
to the civil rights movement was kind of akin to
how people react to like online activism on Twitter and stuff.
You know what I mean, You're kind of like, oh, yeah,
they're making noises, but it's not really you know, it's
just it's not really like encompassing of the entire population

(10:42):
of people. It's kind of like this a small subsection
stuff like that. It was it's like, y'all, remember y'all
remember the episode of the Boondogs were like Granddad, he
was like, we got hosed down and pitting my dogs
for your rights. And then it did a flashback where
he like showed up to the protest arrange jacking on
and everybody was all beat up already and they were
like looking at him like the fun So it's it's that.

(11:06):
It's that. So yeah, I mean, it's it's good. It's fine. Um,
I'm gonna keep on raising hell. But there's been a
lot of holding, a lot of holding, um powerful as
you know, white supremacists to account of late Biden was
in Georgia today, um and um, so that was the
whole thing. He came down here to you know, talk

(11:28):
about voting rights and several large you know, voting rights
groups and progressive groups like New Georgia Project, Black Black
Voters Matter, UM Fair Fight, Like uh, Saty Abraham's organization.
We're like, don't come, don't come, don't come down here
and talk to us. Come go talk to John Manson.
We got should to say to us. Our senators support

(11:50):
voting rights. We support voting rights. I don't know what
you gotta come say to us, frankly, and then Stacy
Abraham's ended up pulling out. She didn't even show up,
and so oh yeah, she was like, oh I had
a schedulming conflict, like bitch who has Like I don't
know if anybody's like, if you want to be there
with the president, you will find a way and you
reschedule that hair appointment like whatever to be there. So

(12:14):
it was just kind of funny. I was about to
ask the same question. I'm curious. I mean, it's these
are the same people that like effectively got him elected
last year, you know, like who I was out here
registering voters in a pandemic, like you know, doing all
this voter education outreach and there, and he had and
he hadn't delivered on like the stuff people voted to get.

(12:37):
And so they're saying, like, you ain't gonna use us
as like a background prop to, like, you know, boost
your poll numbers. Like I literally, strategically, why are you here?
Go talk to Joe Manchin and christ the cinema Like, yeah,
I don't understand why you Like, this is a moment
for more flowery words. So that's what the beef was about.

(12:57):
And yeah, so that was a that's been a whole day.
Well down here, speaking of whole days, we've got a
pretty stacked episode and a lot of stuff to get through,
so I think we should get into it now. All right,
we're gonna take a little break and when we get back,
we are going to be talking about the Young Lords

(13:17):
and is it possible for modern day gangs street gangs
to organize and you know, to do more than what
they're doing. So we'll be back with that and after
after the jump. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back.

(13:40):
So Mariah tell us a bit about the Young Lords before. Yeah, so, um,
the Young Lords under the leadership of Jose MNEZ during
the nineteen six seventies up until the early eighties. You know,
they took inspiration from the Black Panthers and effectively turned
themselves from street gang focused on turf battles like stealing cars.

(14:00):
They sold like three D fifty cars in like a
month span or something crazy just out here whiling out.
Decided um in the face of urban renewal in their
Lincoln Park neighborhood in Chicago, to turn their focus toward
community empowerment and particularly self determination for Puerto Ricans. They
were Puerto Rican street gang UM. From there they kind

(14:22):
of built out. You know, they had solidarity of black
people and colonized people all over the world. They engaged
their mass education and they canvas. They organized community programs
like community testing for TV and lead poisoning that like
the Black Panthers, they had a free breakfast program for kids.
And then what we're gonna talk about a lot in
this episode is they also staged occupations of government properties

(14:43):
and churches and engaged in direct confrontation with figures of
authority from the clergy to you know, public health officials
to obviously the police. So their platform demanded an immediate
withdrawal the US military forces and basis from Puerto Rico, Vietnam,
and all the press community is inside and outside the
U S. No Puerto Rican should serve in the U.

(15:03):
S Army against his brothers and sisters, for the only
true army of the oppressed peoples, the people's army to
fight all rulers. Their anti imperialist. Their anti imperialist stance
was similar to the ten point program of the Black Panthers,
who demanded no black person should serve in the military
as well. Now their full platform included one self determination

(15:25):
for Puerto Ricans, liberation on the islands and inside the
United States. UH. They wanted self determination for a Latinos
and liberation for all the Third world people. They wanted
community control for our institutions and lands. They also wanted
true education for the Creo culture and with freedom for
all political prisoners and equality for women, saying that Machismo

(15:48):
must be revolutionary, not oppressive, armed self defense and arms
struggle as means of liberation, and last a socialist society.
So as the as the organization grew, you know, they
ended up being chapters all over the US and so
different or different like chapters of the party, not the party.
The organization ended up kind of tweaking on this and

(16:10):
you know, developing different aspects of the platform UM for
you know, for themselves. But you know it included resisted
of sexism, imperialism, capitalism, um, all the isms. So before
we go any further, so winner your thoughts on that.
I'm still I remained very curious whether or not this
UM model of organizing and taking existing structure of people

(16:32):
that are willing to do whatever to get shift for
their people, like it's replicable in the modern day because
I feel like a lot of conditions that were happening
in the nineteen sixties, this revolutionary spirit um or it's
just like you know, it's just a time that's gone
from us. I don't know what was magical was special
about that time that we just don't happen twenty twenty two.

(16:52):
But I mean, I think at least from the tactics
there's a lot to be learned from them. But what
do you think, like like knowing hip hop as you do,
and the way these things out here like God they said,
you know, they got they like areas they wrap, etcetera.
They have similar like structure in these little underground organizations.
Do you think something like this is possible in the
modern day? Um, I think it's definitely possible. Um. I

(17:19):
think that that I don't want to call it, see
I never I never really thought about Young Lords as
a gang, So I think that's so my brain is
kind of trying to wrap myself around that part. But yeah,
I think that. I think that with the gangs we
have today, which are completely different than the gangs even

(17:40):
when I was growing up, completely different. Um. Yeah, I
definitely think it's possible. I don't think it'll happen, unfortunately,
because it's gonna take someone that's gonna go out there
and actually do the work to get these groups together.
But I definitely think it's possible. I wonder as well,
if more people knew about this kind of history, if

(18:01):
it would make it more possible. Like I'm like, you know,
I you don't have to reinvent the wheel like this
literally happened before. You ain't inventing anything new like this
has totally been done down to tactics like this is
how y'all could go about winning things for your people. Um,
Because we just have such shitty history education in this country,
you know, damn well, nobody learned about the young Lords

(18:22):
and fucking high school civics. D I think you're definitely
right in the sense that more education and knowledge about
stuff like that would help help the possibility of it.
I like Mike, I think it's possible. I just don't.
I don't know how likely I think it is, just
because you know, like Mike was saying, it's the differences

(18:44):
in what street gangs are now compared to what they
used to be. Um, you know, you've got a lot
of things that are working against it. There's a lot
more distraction now than there was back then. Um, social media,
Internet streaming, well, there's there's a lot of there's a
lot more comforts for to compete for people's attention to
get them onto that stuff. And then lastly, I think

(19:07):
the biggest obstacle towards something like that happening is like,
I mean, I'm not like a street gang expert or
anything like that, but I mean, for the most part,
like street gangs now are like capitalistic enterprises, you know
what I'm saying, Like they're trying to get money. There's
not like the whole the inception point is not like, oh,

(19:28):
this is for the block, or this is for the neighborhood,
or like you know what I mean, for some greater
purpose other than like a monetary, you know, profit driven one.
So you know what I think it is like when
you're talking about social media and all that, I think
it's a lot easier now for groups to just be like, oh,
someone else is gonna do this, because you can hop

(19:50):
on Twitter you'll see a whole bunch of other people
talking ship. So you're like, oh, well, I ain't gotta
worry about that because at some point user battle for
today is gonna can take care of this ship, so
I can go do whatever. Whereas when we were growing up,
I can say I'm not sure how old y'all are.
I know I'm older than both of y'all, Polly, But
when I was growing up, there was no Internet, so
it was basically like, oh, well, I don't know if

(20:11):
somebody else is gonna do this ship. I don't know
if somebody else is gonna go out here and make
sure that trash is getting picked up, so maybe me
and my friends should go out here and take care
of it. So I think that's like one of the
biggest things that's different. I mean the Internet can be
used in both ways because you can also use it
to organize. But I think a lot of people don't
want to admit that the Internet just made a lot
of motherfucker's lazy. Yeah, apathetic, Yeah, I mean I kind

(20:34):
of point to that, like, based on personal experience I
had recently. I know this cat, this local rapper um
that you know, he got like a mad following on
my Instagram and ship, like you know ship and donts
of likes, and he posted on the story should currently
of like you know, guns and money and smoking blunts, etcetera. Um,
But after he recently had an attempt on his life.

(20:56):
I saw the video. You know, somebody came shooting at
him and he chased after them, shooting back and got
you know, an attempted murder charge on him. And in
the aftermath, you know, he was speaking very openly about
like PTSD and wanted to help out the kids, and
like I had a and I actually I went and
spoke at his bond hearing for his trial, trying to
get him out of jail because I had worked with

(21:16):
him previously. He had like a water gun fight for
kids in his neighborhood. You know, who live in this
real run down part of town. He like was real
pivotal and getting the street renamed after this lady that
got shot and killed, like had already been using his
cloud for like these little acts of like goodness and
kindness in the neighborhood, even if he's still ultimately like
very very you know, involved in the streets. And so

(21:40):
with the social media say all that because like, you know,
with a social media following like that, like they were
able to organize the kinds of things they were doing
in the sixties without any without like printed newspapers that
they delivered door to door. You know, if you've got
somebody that like uses social media early, definitely you can
organize a ton of people in a short period of time.
You know, last summer, I was pretty much just posting

(22:01):
on Instagram like yo, I'm sure, like we're shutting down
the street, and like you have like a hundred people
show up, like people I don't even know. Um. Like,
so if you use not only those like street connections
of like the people that you roll with and like
be out here doing grimes and whatnot, like, but also
the broader following that you might have as somebody that

(22:22):
is you know an artist that is kind of repping
that sort of life. I don't know. I feel like
you can actually get a lot done. And I'm hoping
this cat, like if he avoids going to jail for
a long time, could actually use his platform and his
connections to do that kind of thing. To Mike's point,
it's like everything you just said takes like like back
in the day, it required a lot of work, because,

(22:44):
like you're saying, you are talking about having to put
up pamphlets and hand up hand up pamphlets and put
up you know, things in newspapers and and actually physically
be out there in the world and doing stuff. So
you know, like I said, there's just a lot of
obstacles in the a right now for young people in general,
you know, which in a more conspiratorial mind, you could

(23:06):
be like, that's a plot. They got it so comfortable
so that we don't so that we're just all comfortable
enough that we don't rock the boat and ship like that,
Oh definitely, which is honestly another reason why like folks
like running drugs and ship might be a better position
to agitate for political change than somebody working two jobs. Seven,

(23:29):
Because like if you had. If you at work six
hours a week, you're not like showing up a city hall.
You're not like organizing a free breakfast program. But if
you're just sitting on stacks because like you just slipped
a like a quap today, Like you have a lot
of free time on your hands, so like, go do
some good, help, go help people. Um, not that like
I want people, you know, working in the black market economy,

(23:51):
but like that there is that, so turn around and
use it for good. You got a mad free time
on your hands. Man. So I don't know, I guess,
I mean it's not I think that. Um, it's not
that I hold anything against obviously I don't. I don't
hold anything against anybody for having to do what they
gotta do black market economy and stuff like that. It's
more so just like I don't think that, you know,

(24:16):
I mean, I don't think that there should be like
an arbitrary expectation that like people's motivations, that everybody who's
in its motivation is like something that's altruistic and not
just like a personal thing, you know what I'm saying,
Like like, I yeah, and I don't think that. I
don't think everybody who's in the street gang by virtue

(24:37):
of by virtue of their criminal enterprise being something that's
not corporate or elite, meaning that but that's just that
it's good. Does that make sense? No, it doesn't. I
don't mean. It's just like I feel what we're saying

(24:58):
about it's not altruism, Like there is a certain self
serving aspect to it, right, that's what you're talking about,
So I think that, Yeah, sorry, that's exactly it. It's like,
I mean, there's a there's a self serving aspect of it.
So it's just like what type of personality does that attract?
You know? Good point. Counterpoint is that they're in gangs

(25:21):
as well as like you know, we see in group
like the Black Panthers historically there's the strong sense of
what I'm gonna make up and say is like collective
ego and that like people are like I will go
kill you if you shoot at my people, Like I'm
gonna get money for my people. Um, and you see
with like the Young Lords the Black Panthers are like,

(25:42):
we're wrapping for our people by any means necessary arm
struggle to fight off you know, any sort of like attacks.
You know, we're gonna defend our people against the government.
So that same sort of like like collective ego mindset
or like all right, I got my people and I'm
gonna defend them against anything can be leveraged to. Okay, well,
then let's get people housing, like rather than just retaliate

(26:03):
when some other sat shooting at y'all, Like, why don't
you direct that I are towards like the authorities that
are you know, y'all can't get no health care, y'all
can't get no food, y'all can't get no education if
you're gonna if you're gonna just like in a very egotistic,
like self serving way, rep for your people no matter what.
So I feel like that's another way there's like a
pre existing underlying like condition on the ground that like

(26:27):
might be serving for trying to turn some of these
like you've seen trying to like you see Jacks, you know,
turn this into something positive. Okay, Like when I was so,
I'm off I was six years old when I saw
New Jack City in the theater, Like Uncle took me
to see that ship. It's like I remember being a

(26:50):
little kid watching the scene where Nino Brown was handing
out the turkeys, and like there was no aspect of
that to have me feeling like, Okay, so Nino Brown
like a guy or like, oh he has a heart
of goals. Like no, I think it's still the bad
guy like that, Like him handing out the turkeys wasn't
because he was a good guy that cared about the neighborhood.
It was because he was trying to course people into
supporting them, you know what I'm saying. So it's like

(27:13):
it's like for for every for everybody who's caught up
in it, who is like a victim of circumstance. You know,
You've got some people who are in positions of leadership
in that world that you know, if you gave them
a different background, of different educationals, you know, like circumstances,
they would be the evil corporate boss that we hate,

(27:34):
you know what I'm saying. Just because their their ship
played out differently and they're heading up a street gang,
doesn't you know what I mean? I don't think that that,
like just that simple fact means that, Okay, like these
guys probably have a lot of the same sort of
sentiments that I do. I don't know, man, I think
that people that are in street gangs are probably if

(27:56):
you look at it, they're probably the easiest dudes to
flip into that mentality if you think about it, right, Like,
and I'm not talking about like some fucking street gang
in Marietta that's like se white kids that grow up
with money. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about
like real street gangs who grew up poor, who joined
street gangs because they don't really see a way out,

(28:17):
or they don't really see a viable way to get food,
you know what I'm saying. Um, Yeah, sure, there are,
of course those people that are just like, oh, I
just want to make a bunch of bread. But if
you're in a certain situation and you don't see a
way to feed your family, street gangs are a viable option. Right.

(28:37):
But if you can go to those people and say, Okay,
well you joined the street gang because you didn't see
a viable option, well there's a whole bunch of other
people that look at it the same exact way. They
don't have viable options either. And if all of you
guys get together and try to form something, you can
actually make a real change. I think that that is possible,

(28:57):
and I do think that those street gang dudes would
probably be pretty easy to flip that way. I think
that nobody's willing to take the chancel go talk to them,
either because they're scared or they think they're stupid, they
think they won't understand it. Do you think would be
needed to do something like that? Do you think it
needs to be like a rapper, a rapper, somebody yeah,

(29:19):
with like with like actual street credibility. Because another problem
you often see, or at least I see in my work,
is that like you often have like other community leaders,
leaders like moralizing to these folks why they need to
go get a job or or simply or simply just
put the guns down, which like is admirable, but like
if you have people, you know, like trying to come
kill you, like I, you know, I understand why you

(29:42):
stay strapped. I wish you didn't have to be, but
like this is where we're at, and so yeah, you
need somebody with street credibility. But to respond to Max's
other point, like I found him found that most political
actors are bad people to a certain degree. Like you
got you got Nancy Pelosi out here defendings, you know,
congress people trained stocks, got these Niggs on Wall Street,

(30:03):
like getting everybody's houses taken back by the banks. Like uh,
like there's always there's always some nefarious like either intention
or uh effects of like what a lot of people
in the political sphere are doing to a degree, um
and so like I guess I would rather have people
being most impacted by the factory of the folks at

(30:25):
the top trying to make things better than purely leaving
it to the folks that are or or who are
doing crimes or doing things that should be illegal but
aren't crimes because they make the laws, you know, get
away with all the ship they're doing. So either side,
I mean, like, no matter what happens with like the
future of this country's gonna be decided by quote unquote
bad people. But which bad you gotta pick which bad people.

(30:46):
So folks out here was like grieving loved ones that
got shot in the drive by and like you know,
selling crack or whatever because they you know, dropped out
of high school. Like you know, maybe we should give
them a chance to help articulate what their community needs
so that we can disrupt some of the violence happening
out here. But anyway, let's go on, because We've been

(31:07):
talking about a lot about like can a gang today
do what the Young Lords did? But what do they do?
So UM, It's all got started during Mayor Daily. We
talked about Mayor Daily in the the greg Dick Gregory
episode because Um Dick Gregory ran against Mayor Daily one time.
But in Mayor Chicago, UM started out having all these

(31:28):
urban renewal projects, you know where they getting federal money
to tear down slums, etcetera and build like nice, shiny
new ship. So one of the projects resulted in Puerto
Ricans in Lincoln Park neighborhood and several Mexican communities getting
evicted UM from what became prime real estate areas you know, Loop, Lakefront,
old Town and Lakeview neighborhoods. Okay, So, so in response,

(31:50):
like UM, the members of the Young Lords straight up
ransacked and closed to the Department of Ubert Urban Renewal
office at Chicago, telling the neighborhood association that was in
favor of the gentrification that they would permit no further
meetings on urban renewal until people of color were included
on the board. But the implication I assuming that given

(32:12):
their access to weapons and willingness to the funk down
that they were willing to enforce this by violence if necessary.
So like y'all ain't doing no more urban renewal over
here until we are have a say in the political process,
like we're not playing. So that's kind of how they
got started, and like an approach they would often take
with confronting like figures of authority, um to get what

(32:35):
the people needed, you know. So the movement you know,
expanded from Chicago to include chapters and dirty different cities
including New York City, Philadelphia, when Connecticut, New Jersey, went
in Boston, Milwaukee, UM, and then a couple of in uh, California,
and then when in Puerto Rico as well, though the
Chicago branch um you know, as as the movement became national,

(32:57):
that remained their national headquarters UM. Around this time. So oh,
I asked, this is the part I meant to read earlier,
and then I read now, Yes, so, um, yeah, I mean,
like I've talked about urban renewal on the show and
referenced so there was an urban renewal project here in
Athens where a bunch of black families got kicked out
in their houses burned down. So they could build like

(33:18):
student norms. And so what's interesting to me learning this
aspect of the Young Lord's history is that, like with
Lennon Town here in Athens, they actually did have black
people on the board of the of the Urban Renewal
like committee or whatever that was like, oh yeah, that
ship's a slum. Tear that ship down. We don't get
fucked like they like the government hand pick pretty much

(33:39):
like you know, coons to to like sign off on,
you know, tearing this neighborhood down and taking everybody out,
destroying all these families. So, I mean, I think it's
just I think I just think it's interesting that, like
the what was it gonna say, Like, I guess it
reinforces to me, at least my understanding of what happened

(34:00):
here that you know, black faces and high places doesn't
necessarily guarantee like political freedom for the people they are
you know, purported to represent. I don't know how this
worked out for the Young Lords. I'm assuming not well
because our neighborhood got tore up anyway. But hey, they tried,
and they at least like we're forcible about it. They
weren't like, oh, well, you know, we'll try to show

(34:20):
up in the meetings and see what's out. They were like, no,
y'all are not y'all are not having any more meetings
until we're invited and we here are people in on
the conversation, which you know that last I don't want
to harp on the same thing. It's like that last
last thing that we read is like, who's gonna do
that now? Like I mean, or like which which rapper

(34:43):
is gonna is gonna like motivate cats to organize like
that now? Because like, because we we had what we
were doing when we were doing the we were doing
the year and episode last week might and I was,
you know, we're getting a bunch of stories together to
recap of things that happened during the year. And one
of the angles that I wanted to take was, oh, man,

(35:06):
let me um just find a bunch of rappers commenting
on the last year and a half that we've had. Right.
I really couldn't find it, man, like like it I'm
dead serious, Like if you were to just take in
like and again, you know, people always get get on
me whenever I'm like harping on mainstream hip hop because

(35:26):
it's like I get it. There's way more hip hop
that exists in the world. I'm sure, m C whatever
the hell was like talking about all the stuff, you
know what I'm saying, But like the mainstream is important
because like it acts as a de fact of representation of,
you know, of what hip hop is to the world
at LART. That's a bigger reach if you were to
just go by mainstream hip hop. It's like, motherfucker's live

(35:49):
in a different world, yo, Like the country didn't just
go up through a pandemic, Like there's no leg weird,
fucked up political tension going on. It's like, you know,
it's like they're completely oblivious to it, at least on
a on the aspect that I think most people are
going to hear their thoughts, which is their music, you
know what I'm saying. If somebody's talking again, giving the

(36:10):
caveat that somebody's talking about something in an interview, somebody's
talking about something on a podcast, that's all cool. But
I'm I'm of the mindset that more people are gonna
hear you cover an issue in your music. If you're
a rapper musician, more people are gonna hear you address
that ship by your music than any other form of
doing it. So it's just like just going by that,

(36:31):
and I understand you can take it with a grain
of salt, but just going by that, there seems to
be a lack of interest in hip hop for some
of these issues that it seems like an extremely daunting
task to find a figure or figures that could you know,
galvanized youth to doing something like the Young Lords are doing.

(36:52):
I mean, I think one thing, Mikey, you want to
say something, I'll go after. I mean, I think one
thing today that my be a barrier to like this
kind of organizing is that like the ways they fuck
you are a lot more like creeping rather than blunt
and just like immediate. So like urban renewal, they were like, hey,
we're I tear down your entire neighborhood, and so of

(37:14):
course niches like, but no, don't do that. But like
now it's like, oh, the property taxes just go up
and up and every year, and then some guy shows
up at your house, and then your neighbor's house and
your auntie's house, like oh, we'll pay a hundred dollars
for your house in cash on the spot, and then
gradually the neighborhood just gets whiter, and then the white

(37:34):
people start calling the cops and then like you'll on
your house party and then all y'all in jail as
opposed to just like blatant we kicking all your things out.
So it's hard to keep up with. It's hard to
figure out where to like you know, stick stick a pin,
and like this is what we're fighting for, even thinking
about the pandemic, Like what should we even ask for?
Right now? Things are so bleak and terrible, but like

(37:56):
do we ask for like free rapid tests at home?
Do we ask for a nast and then shot down?
Like what do we even do? Because it's not as
cut and dry. It's just like we want to end
more in Vietnam or something. So you're you're definitely right. Yeah,
I was just gonna gonna touch on the And of

(38:16):
course we don't have to stay on this because we
could probably do a whole show on mainstream rappers not
giving a funk about certain things. But I mean, at
this point, me being you know, a forty plus year
old guy, I don't I don't look to mainstream rappers
anymore to do ship just because I understand how it goes.
You know, these dudes might have grown up in far

(38:38):
worse conditions than I did, but once they get to
that money level, all of that ship gets forgotten and
it sucks. It totally sucks. But I see it happening constantly.
So I mean, I'm not looking for a little baby
or you know why being Cordain, and that's nothing against
them at all, but I'm not looking to those dudes

(39:00):
to actually do ship anymore. I'm not surprised you couldn't
find mainstream rappers talking about these conditions because to a
lot of them, these conditions don't exist because it doesn't
affect them. You know, like when when Wayne said, yeah,
black lives matter, it's not anything I have to worry about.
Black lives matter, Yeah it matters to my fature something
stupid like that. He said, you know, um, same thing

(39:24):
with Asap Rocky. And this is nothing against these guys
because I like both artists. But you know, they didn't
connect to these movements because it had nothing to do
with them in their brains at that moment. You know,
they're rich, they have basically fucking financed out of being
you know, and good for good for them. I wish

(39:45):
I could do I wish I could do that sometimes,
but you know, I think if you're looking for mainstream
rappers right now to be the figureheads, it's it's not
gonna happen. And then that's what suck, because I mean exactly,
just to clarify, it's like it's less of an expectation

(40:05):
for me and more so just like an observation, you
know what I'm saying. It's like, it's like it that's all.
I mean. It's just like, damn, the the climate is
just right for that sort of thing that if somebody
were to take that mantel seriously, they could probably do
some damage out there, you know what I'm saying. It's like,
but who Who's going to be that cat to do it? Though? Well,

(40:28):
I would say I would say, that's why you need
these local ask rappers that are like medium famous, like
the famous in their neighborhood and like in the city,
but like they're not They're not on a level of
money where they don't give a funk about anymore, but
they have financed themselves. I think there has to be
like a resignation to that fact though, because if if

(40:49):
the if the motivation though is eventually like like a
I'm local now, but eventually I want to be like
a superstar, then I think that will affect their decision
making in that end too. But if somebody was like, yo,
I'm I'm like, I'm the king of my neighborhood and
I'm gonna like ride from my neighborhood, whether it's like

(41:10):
musically or you know, organization wise, then then I think
you're working with something. But if somebody's got stardom in
their eyes, like Mike was saying, it's like everybody's you know,
I really like that that phrase. Everybody's trying to finance
themselves out of nigodot to us. So yeah, yeah, I
love it. If Young Thug one day just woke up

(41:31):
and was like, yeah, I'm gonna be a revolutionary in
a different way. He's already revolutions, remember, But if he's
just like you don't remember the video, Oh, I forget
the name of the song, but h During the Ferguson
protests and stuff, Young Thug came out with a video
that like the video was him and a bunch of

(41:53):
people like marching in the streets like Ferguson style, and
like all all of the press, like all of the uh,
you know the I think at the time, up Rocks
are still ship, Like you know, all all of the
blogs that were posting it up, we're like, check out
Young Thugs new political video, Young Thug touching Politics. So
I listened to the song and it's it's pupil marching

(42:14):
like Young Dug definitely is dressed like a black panther marching.
But the song is like I beat that push up,
you know what I mean, Like the song had nothing
to do with the imagery that you're seeing. So like, see,
I feel like, well, we need the opposet, we need
the video where everybody's got the aks and ski masks
and they're like dancing on dancing on the car and

(42:35):
everybody's working in the lyrics like yeah, let's get the
bakers and hang them in the square. I don't actually,
it's like I don't think that attitude exists, like at
that level of hip hop, that attitude of like yo,
we gotta get the bankers. It's like I don't think
there's you know, I don't think you know, I don't

(42:57):
think that attitude is coming for like a hundred years,
like I think, and that's that's what. Yeah. So when
I was saying earlier than the nineties ses are over
and just never coming back. I think what's missing now
that they had then was like widespread revolutionary consciousness, like
just in like in the streets, there was all kind
of protest movements, and it was really easy to like
just you know, by the by the wayside whatever, developed

(43:19):
like a sophisticated political analysis of what's wrong and what
you need to do to get it right. Like we
just don't have that nowadays. So it's like people want
to help little baby, you know, trying to help different
people speaking out, you know j Cole with his song
last Summer, you know, just expressing his self consciousness about
knowing not knowing what to do in the movement, Like
it's just because niggas don't know, because like there's just

(43:39):
not a spirit in the air of like of just
you know, revolutionary ideas empowering people to take action to
make their lives better and believing as possible. So that's
why peoples out here being done. We need a whole
bunch of like, we need a whole bunch of dudes
to make more albums like RBG, which is my favorite
Dead Press album. Unfortunately, they kind of disappeared after that album.

(44:05):
I mean, I always wondered what the hell happened. I
ran into uh into into stick Man and Whole Foods.
I wanted to ask him, like I was. I was
star struck, so I couldn't get that far. But I
wanted to be like grou But like when you're talking
about that young thug ship where you know he's marching

(44:27):
the streets, but the music is beat etera. It's like
when you listen to RBG, whereas they're making this almost
party music, but it's talking about ship. Like that's the
one that had let's go steal credit cards for the
you know, for the revolutions. That's the one that had
hell yeah, yeah, okay, yeah absolutely right, yeah yeah, hell yeah,
hell yeah. It was a b et uncut video. Yeah,

(44:50):
scattered scattered Acid Booty all in the video, and the
song is about revolution. The song is completely about The
song is about stealing credit card and acting like you're
this white dude, but you're gonna use the money to
fund the revolution. Like this is what I'm talking about.
I'm serious with the videos like big big booty porn
stars in the trap house are happening about that. Yeah,

(45:18):
that's what we need, you know, And and here we
are to go on, get back into the Young Lords.
Please nobody get in my comments about like, oh, but
you know they're young. They're young, you know, because people
use that young younger killed exactly like that we're talking
about that, we're making a comparison to these motherfucker's were
way younger than the people that were that we're talking

(45:40):
none of these none of these cats affording none of
these cats happening again when he died. When he died,
so that means that all the ship, all the ship
that Fred Hampton was known for, like that the ship
that Fred Hampton did that made it a big deal
when he died and made it, like everyone feel like
a huge sense of loss that motherfucker was doing when
he was Like come on now, listen, let's stop with that.

(46:09):
But yeah, let's move on and talk a little bit
more about what the Young Lords actually went out here
and did. So one of their fame most famed tactics
is that they undertook a series of occupations to get
their demands met and the use spaces for their program. So,
for example, the Young Lords of Chicago stage and occupation
of the Armadage Avenue United Methodist Church and set up
programs including community medals and classes and what inside what

(46:31):
they were calling the People's Church. This is back in
May nine. United Methodist pastor Reverend Bruce Johnson UM of
the Northside Cooperative Ministry worked with them to obtain funds
to support their programs. Actually so they had the support
of some of the clergy, and the building actually remained
a church but also served as the Young Lords national
headquarters for nearly two years. UM. In New York, they're

(46:55):
up there, all of suit and took over the first
Spanish United Methodist Church in East Harlem the demand that
the church get more involved in programs for the poor
UM and over a hundred members were arrested in their
two weeks takeover. UM, you know, but thankfully, like blood
shad was avoided. But in both cities many clergies sided
with the Young Lords. UM. Reverend David York, who worked

(47:15):
in the New York office, had been saying, if Jesus
were alive today, he would be a Young Lord. So
my question for y'all is, you know, we've been talking
a lot about whether something like this is possible today,
but this extends as well to the possibility of an
alliance between the clergy and gangs like that, that to
me seems like like no, like but what do y'all

(47:36):
think is that even? Is that you? Or yeah? I
like to yeah, like now like they these days, they
make they make everything, make a dirty money just like
everybody else. So yeah, but like you know, you church
programs out here giving out food, doing community meals, trying
to get kids, you know, backpacks and clothes for school.

(47:58):
Like do you think that if they saw all like
the Bloods out here doing the same thing, and the
Bloods rolled up and was like, yeo, we're trying to
use your church basement to like do free breakfaits for
kids three days a week with you. I mean, I
don't want to generalize because like there's many different kinds
of like theology out there, but like, could you first
see something like that even being possible? Yeah, yeah, I

(48:19):
mean if they if they were doing it, yeah, I
think so, if they were doing it, like you know,
and I mean even just to be fair, like I'm
pretty sure you know we you know, if we really
sat down and look, we could probably fill up a
sheet full of examples of bloods and crips and you know,
street gangs actually doing positive stuff in their community and

(48:40):
getting the support of the community. You know, it might
be on like a real, real localized level, localized scale
and stuff like that, but I'm sure we could find that.
It's just a matter of like, what do you do
to amplify that or what do you do to expand that?
That's the that's the question. Yeah, I don't know. Man,
speaking specifically about the church. Um, them occupying the church

(49:07):
was probably one of my favorite things that the Young
Lords did, and when they were just like yes, because
this church was doing nothing for the community, so we
took it over and now we have medical training and
free breakfast like that was the dopest ship to me today.
Could I see that happening? No, I think Pastor would
call the cops so fucking quick, it wouldn't even be funny.

(49:28):
I think that most churches, and of course I don't
want to say all, but most churches, I think they
would even sit down and have a conversation with these guys.
And that's that's the biggest problem, because if we really
are talking about Jesus and all this ship, yeah, Jesus
would hang out with the young lords. But you know,
Pastor Fowler ain't hanging out with the young lords, you
know what I'm saying, that he's not gonna have anything

(49:48):
to do with that. I guess I should have made
clear that oftentimes these relationships between the clergy and the
young lords were coerced, so like they would come occupy
your church, and after a while the clergy would be like,
you know what, they're not so bad, and like then
start to roll with them and like support them and
help them. But like it wasn't always just like they
showed up and like nailed the doors of the church
shot and the pastor was like sick, you know, Like

(50:11):
all the times it was like a forest relationship that
ultimately like evolved into an amicable one. I mean that's
what That's what the young you know, putting that initial
pressure on them, you know what I'm saying, Like you
can't avoid us because we're we're in your home. You
gotta deal with They were doing things that the churches
were supposed to be doing themselves, Like why are you

(50:32):
here if it's not to serve the community, you know
what I'm saying, Like like it's funny, like real quick,
when um one of the biggest arguments I ever got
into when my band was on tour, when we played
in the place in South Carolina and we were driving
through the neighborhood and I noticed like every single house
was just fucking dilapidated. It was just a wreck. They

(50:53):
had one church in the neighborhood, and I swear you
should have seen this ship. It looked like it was
just like an amazing, beautiful mansion of a place. And
when we played, I said something about that. I was like,
I was like, the people that live in this community,
do you guys not find it geared that you are
living in squalor? But the one, the one building in

(51:18):
the neighborhood that is actually clean and pristine is the church.
And I was like, is are the people from the
church actually coming to your neighborhoods and trying to help
you keep your neighborhood clean? Or is only the neighborhood
serving the church? Was like, that's fucking weird. And man,
I got eight the funk up, bro, Like these dudes

(51:39):
they were not having it. They were just like flipping.
I was like, I don't understand what I'm saying. That's
so crazy. And I look at the same type of ship. Today,
I'll drive through these neighborhoods and I'm just like, damn,
this is crazy. But the church just looks like everyone
is doing their part to make sure that it's clean.
But I guarantee you pastor don't give a fuck about
the neighborhood around that church. Well, this is one thing

(52:00):
that's challenged, you know, my faith throughout my adulthood, particularly
you know, after like two thousand and eighteen, when like
my aunt got killed, and like we would go to
church and they'd be like, well, it's a part of it,
it's part of the plan, and I was like, fuck, no,
this is a policy failure, like you know what. And
so like I've heard oftentimes by folks that you know,
compare the militancy of religious figures in like the Civil

(52:23):
Rights era versus today when folks have sort of fallen
back on like, you know, being good in this life.
But just like chill good because like heaven awaits on
the other side, so all the injustices you face, like
you will be your washed clean of you when you die,
versus like you don't. We don't have to be living
like this now, like you know, to live a good
life in service of the people, and the Lord is

(52:46):
to like get out and fight for something better. You
ain't gonna wait till you get to heaven. And so
I feel like that is that is like h an
extension of that mindset you're talking about, or perhaps the
basis of it of people are just like it's cool.
I'm just gonna like be nice to everyone, to like
go to Evan and it's like that is that's required.
That's really that's all you got. But I mean, people,

(53:08):
it's people paid a heavy price for fucking with the
Young Lords. Um, David, I think you mentioned him earlier?
What's his name? And keep getting lost? Okay wait, okay,
so so no, no, no, that nigga. What's his name?
David York? No different guy? Sorry. September twenty nine, Reverend

(53:34):
Bruce and his wife Eugenia Ramsey or Johnson that we're
funking with the Young Lords helping them out. Oh yeah,
it was a guy to help fundraise for them, a
think at the People's Church and Armadig Avenue. Yeah. For
that guy and his wife got dads of death in
their home and the case has never been solved. I mean,
what did they think that there was the reason. We mean,

(53:55):
what do you think the reason why they got co
intel pros? I mean you think like a daid, Oh yeah,
somebody you know, I never heard about that. They weren't
even the only ones. There's another guy that got transferred
to Los Angeles from I guess maybe either the New
York or the Chicago office he was working with then
also got killed, like killed as well, And that's also

(54:17):
a cold case. They never found out who did it.
I mean that goes into what you were saying earlier
about like the acts against them being a lot more
blatant than it is now than the creep that's happening now.
So it's like if they're dudes, like obviously you know
you've got the coin to the coin tel pro. But
I mean if it's getting down in the straight up
assassinations and ship, you know, it's like it doesn't get

(54:40):
any more hand fisted than that ship. Yeah, And I
mean that's another reason why I feel like gangs might
be a site for like this kind of revolutionary activity
because you think it's already out here ready, But okay,
they out here shoot at each other like all this
crazy ship like you know how talking about spot. It's like,
this is something that has happened before. If y'all really
bound that life, you're trying to put it all over
the line for something, but something good. This question is like,

(55:03):
how about that life? Are they though? And we've we're
talking about this before, and we talked about it with
Mike c Town and Ship, but like, you know, the
lack of pushback within from just like the I guess,
the the urban community at large against like some of
these very direct like physical threats from like right wing

(55:27):
groups and right wing gangs themselves. We just did the
episode last week where we were talking about um uh,
you know Patriot Front and stuff like that. You know,
the Patriot Front, the Nazi group that marched in Washington
a couple of weeks ago. You know, they're suspected of
like having an organized campaign to spread COVID during the
through black communities during the pandemic like that, like they

(55:50):
found from their like their their internal documents and chatter
and Ship like that, like that was something that they
were doing, like organizing to do, was to go into Chicago,
go to New Orleans and like a truly actively like
spread And I'm not like talking about Ship like like
some of these dudes who are involved with this ship
have Twitter accounts in YouTube channels that get more views

(56:10):
and more likes than a lot of rappers. We might
talk about you know what I'm saying, and it's like
and and my thing is, it's like, like, the reason
that makes it difficult for me to imagine some of
this organization that the Young Lords are doing. The reason
it's hard for me to imagine it now is because,
like you said, on just the base level of what

(56:31):
you guys are already doing, which is beefing with each
other and ready for war and ready to fight and
ship like that, it's like that ship is not a threat.
They're they're not doing that ship in a way that's
a threat to anybody but their own community, because they're
not like, hey, we're beefing with Nick Fuentez in these
fucking neo Nazis that are you know what I mean?

(56:52):
Like like I'm not hearing any any I'm not seeing
anybody make any videos where they're shirtless waving the a
K around like funk these Nazi niggers. I'm get you, motherfucker,
you know what I'm saying. But you'll see that against
like other rappers and other people that got beef WITHO
on Instagram and ship like that. So it's like, I
don't think the motivation to push back against some of
these external forces is there on even like a basic

(57:14):
physical front, let alone to get it to be into
like some intellectual Hey, we've got to organize and do this,
and you know what I mean. All I'm saying is
these cats are already living an imminent threat of incarceration
every day, of going to jail every single day for
the ship they're doing, of dying every single day for
the ship they're doing. So I agree that like the again,

(57:35):
the political analysis of like who the enemy is isn't there.
But like if you're already a living on the margins,
like gonna get picked up at the cops any day now,
like like why not engage in civil disobedience, like your
life is just at risk? I don't know, but I
agree it's not there. It's not there right now, at
least from you know, we don't know about it. I

(57:56):
think that these guys are are are typically think thinking
about tomorrow and the next day and maybe next week,
so they're not thinking as far as you know, white
supremacy they're thinking about, like, yo, I gotta I gotta
feed my family tomorrow or I might get shot on Thursday.

(58:18):
So I mean, I don't I don't know how feasible
it is for these guys to just one day wake
up and be like, all right, yeah, let's go funk
with Adam Woffin. Like they're not gonna think that way.
But it would take someone having to go in there
and really sit down with these dudes and and get
them to understand, like, these problems that you're having in

(58:38):
your neighborhood are because there are bigger problems outside of
your neighborhood that are affecting your neighborhood. But who's gonna
take the time to do that? And I love you
for I'm just playing maybe, but I mean I hear you.
I'm not trying to get I don't. I don't think

(58:59):
you're wrong. I don't disagree with you. Um yeah, I mean,
it's it's like I everything you said is right. It's
just it's just like it's it's beef though, you know,
I don't know. It's just that I think that's probably
the biggest, like one of the biggest like surprise developments

(59:20):
to the social media age for me is like who
people choose to respond to and stuff like that, Because
on one hand, you're right, like a lot of these
guys are thinking about living tomorrow and they're not thinking
about these giant, big galaxy brain ideas and ship like that.
But at the same time, it's like, you know, if
somebody leaves the wrong comment on somebody's Instagram, you know

(59:43):
what I mean, it's like motherfucker's can work out the
time and to to respond and blah blah blah. So
for me, it's just it's weird because it's not even
about thinking about concepts of like white supremacy or not,
Like this is no different than damn how come more
more caps aren't Like how come more cast didn't reference
George Zimmerman, you know, like like why isn't he more

(01:00:05):
of like a figure that's like reference that people hate.
Like again, going back to the episode where we're talking
about like rapperence lines and maybe I'm harping too much
on rap with this, do you guys think so it's
I don't think you're harping too much on wrap. I
just think that, um, I think we're making it sound

(01:00:25):
like it's a easier easier to do. I think that
that these guys are are really only worried about what's
directly affecting their neighborhoods, and a lot of them either
don't have the time or don't have the resources to
go and learn about how these other things are actually
factually affecting their neighborhoods. So when you say, like, oh, well,

(01:00:49):
why aren't they you know, talking about this group and
that group, because that group is not directly in their
neighborhood saying I'm gonna kill you. You know, white supremacist
groups are not going to march into these areas and
talk ship. They're just not. So these street gangs are
not worried about them right now. They're worried about the
next street gang that's gonna cause problems. I guess what

(01:01:11):
I'm saying is I think that from a strategic level,
they probably should be worried about those those like because,
you know, because that's that's I guess That's what I'm
saying at the end of the time, is like they
should probably look at them like their street gangs and
beef with them accordingly. But again, I'm not advocating anybody
beefing with each other and blah blah blah, like there

(01:01:31):
should be real Huh, why not? Because when those consequences
that come with that, And I'm not I'm not gonna
sit here and tell somebody else that they should go
get into some ship and face some consequences that I'm
not that you're not going to. So I'm not saying
here like, yeah, man, I'm about to go do a
drive by on some Nazis. So how come y'all aren't
doing it like that. I'm not here advocating for that

(01:01:52):
sort of ship. It's just it seems like a mission
to me. It just does. Here's the other reason why
I think it's hard for people to even imagine is
that because you don't learn about history of groups like this,
people don't realize you can actually win something more than
like a meal on the table tomorrow. So like the
Young Lords, they did an occupation um at McCormick Theological

(01:02:16):
Seminary Um that one resident sixty six d fifty thousand
dollars for low income housing. Like people can't even imagine
like actually being able to achieve something like that. They
uh for for four months um they camped out on
what they called the People's Park took it over um
this this spot over at halstet and Army Didge Avenue, UM,

(01:02:37):
and they prevented the construction of fucking for profit tennis
courts on land that was used for low income housing.
So like, I feel like if people knew that you
could actually win things if you fought, like they'd be
more willing to try. But like they purposefully don't really
teach you about this kind of history because they don't
want you to know that you can win stuff. So yeah,

(01:02:57):
I mean I agree though that that that like somebody,
it's like some sort of education needs to take place
if anything like this is even remotely possible. But um program,
Like I mean, like what type of education do you
think could be implemented to? I mean, they had all
kinds of classes. I'm not sure what the content was,
but I imagine it had to do with political analysis
and organizing. Like yeah, so like the Black Panthers I

(01:03:21):
know a little bit more about than the Young Lords,
but like they would they had their newspapers, so they
had like articles in there about various you know, organizing
projects of their's and and reasons why everything is so fucked,
you know, like explaining the relationship with the government, capital
into imperialism, etcetera. To like help people understand why things
were they were the way they were. Um. They also
you know, just give out books books to people and

(01:03:42):
people just you know, have have reading clubs where people
just discussed books and things like that. I mean, I
don't really have the answer, but um, I believe it's possible.
I mean, think about for example, the uprising last summer,
so many people were just learning from like Instagram, like Instagram,
intrographics and ship like using social media to create material reels,
you know, go on live on Instagram talking to people
about issues some um as a new way to engage

(01:04:06):
in that kind of nass political education. I think good
things around but but um so, then the Young Lords
and New York and Chicago continue to grow and influence
and numbers until about NKA three and they joined up
with joint forces with Fred Hampton as y'all know, and
the Young Patriots Organization, which interestingly was a white working

(01:04:27):
class group that had once used the Confederate flag as
their symbol, but came together with the Young Lords and
the Black Panthers under the Rainbow Coalition to fight poverty
and discrimination. Together but the powers that be certainly didn't
like that, because two months later, Fred Hampton got killed
in the infamous FBI raid, which I swear to God.
Another thing they don't teach you about history is that

(01:04:48):
whenever there's like a multi racial movement for change of
working class people, that's when they start killing people that
like Martin Luther King Jr. Coming up on his you know,
his day on the seventeenth, Like they killed him when
he was starting to organize white and black people together. Uh.

(01:05:10):
All you know, although the whole multiracial working class to
demand like economic freedom, fucking rainbow coll whch she comes together, Boom,
Suddenly Fred Hampton is dead. Like there's nothing that like
the powers that be fear more than people putting aside
like racial differences or whatever to like fight for ship.
Like even if you look at you know, the history
of I guess you could say, like, um, you know,

(01:05:34):
let's let's take unions for example, Like, um, when they
started to have better labor protections, Um, I think it
was in the New Deal era they specifically excluded like
domestic workers and farm workers that were disproportionately black. Because
if everybody got the same stuff, if the white and
the black people got the same stuff. The white working

(01:05:56):
class would like flip out, but they needed to keep
us divided and conquered, etcetera. Cut this out. This was
a bad example. But um but I'm telling you, whenever, whenever,
it really isn't they gotta keep us fighting each other,
you know, in order, because that then that then it's
a real threat. We have people coming together cost color lines. Well,
the one point I wanted to make about that, and

(01:06:17):
it might be kind of off topics, so we might
cut it out. But like I see a lot of
people like now, like a lot of leftists and ship
now who make that point. But it's like, I don't
think like the like the Black Panthers and fred Hamton
in them, like they were making these like multiracial coalitions
and stuff like that and putting aside racial differences. But

(01:06:38):
it's not like the Black Panthers were like actively trying
to go like work with white people who hated black people.
I mean, the Confederate flag was their symbol, but they
themselves were not like a white supremacist group. It wasn't
like a white supremacist group was like, oh, you know what,
let's work with the Black Panthers. Now, I mean they

(01:06:59):
didn't funk with black people. I'm asking like they were
like actively like we hate, we don't like black people,
but we're gonna work with what would you call an
organization to what would you call an organization today that
is trying to promote the interests of white people. Well,
I mean, but we're talking about two. I think that
we got to add the context of the times now
into that. You know what I'm saying, like if if

(01:07:22):
you're if, if you're if, we're like recognizing that it's
like this was like a like a group back then
in comparing it with the group now, I don't know.
I don't know, But I mean again, I honestly don't know.
I'm not saying this like to be like facetious or
to like make like a contrarian point. I honestly don't know.

(01:07:43):
So if you guys tell me that this was like
a full on we were a white supremacist group and
it's like, oh, we're gonna make this truce with the
Black Panthers, even though we hate you guys when we
hate black people, will make this truce with you for now.
If that was what they were on, then I don't
know then in that case, I'm wrong, you know, I mean,
but I don't think they were like you know what
I'm saying, because I hear a lot of lefties now
trying to get motherfucker's to work with the alt right

(01:08:05):
and no, we should, we should work with the Proud
Boys and ship like that. It's like, I don't think
I don't think Fred Hampton was working with the Proud
Boys type of organization. No, that's totally different. I think
that the Young Patriots, they weren't necessarily a white supremacist group,
but they certainly were not a group that was running
around looking for black people to work with. You know

(01:08:27):
what I'm saying, Like, if a random black person just
happened to show up at one of their meetings, I'm
sure they'd be like, what the funk are you doing here?
You know? I think that I think that look like
imagine if imagine if that January six ship happened, but
it was all poor white people, all poor black people

(01:08:47):
uniting to take over that ship, Like that's the type
of ship that needs to fucking happen. Once poor white
people realize they're Niggers who, then this ship will get
over get a lot better faith and poor white people
of two thousand twenties. It's not poor white people of
two They're just not. It's it's like, I don't know,

(01:09:09):
I'm sorry. They just need someone to explain this ship,
just like I keep saying that they that these street
gangs needs someone to explain this ship. So do poor
white people. Poor white people. The reason they're like this
is because they have some other person that's charismatic enough
to convince them that all of their problems are due

(01:09:29):
to somebody else. But that somebody else is black people,
is Mexican people, is women. Imagine if they had someone
that's like, look, these problems are because of these other
white people that are way richer than you, that don't
give a funk that you're poor, and they, matter of fact,
they actually like that you're poor because they can keep

(01:09:51):
you uneducated. And if they can keep you uneducated, they
can keep you fighting with these other black people that
are also having the same problems that are just I
agree with that. I just think that they're aware of that.
By and by and by and large, I think they're
they're aware. I think the promise of oh, but we'll
be better off than the blacks is enough for them

(01:10:14):
for I think I think they're absolutely aware of their
economic situation. They're absolutely aware of their status. They know
the elites are sucking them, and they're like, well, you
know what I mean if the trade Office that you
guys get to funk us over, but we get to
funk over the blacks and the gays, I'll take it like,

(01:10:34):
that's what I asked. What I think they're that's what
I think they're off. I think your average poor white
person doesn't think that way. I don't think they have enough.
I don't think they have enough information to think that way.
I think we're coming back to, like earlier we're saying, oh,
people are worried about like their next you know meal
like that people. I like a lot of people, I
would say probably not even poor white people, like middle

(01:10:54):
class white people especially, or a lot of racial anxiety
about you know, staying above um the you know, the
real niggers. Um. But yeah, poor white people are probably
also just were as worried about like getting their next
box of diapers for their kid or whatever, and not
thinking like, oh I hate those black people learning like
you know openly though there are certainly cases of that

(01:11:16):
as well. But they think the same way these street
gangs do. Like these street gangs are like, Yo, I
can't get ahead because of these niggers on the block.
I can't get ahead because this gang around the corner,
these other black people, and these fucking poor white folks.
I can't get ahead because he's got damn niggers. I
can't get ahead because he's damn Mexicans. It's like, if

(01:11:38):
we were able to convince them that this was not
the case and these were the actual problem, I just
don't know if we can convince them of that. Man,
we can't think you can't. I think that's I'm not
the rock. The Rock can do it. If you get
the Rock to go talk to these poor white people.

(01:11:58):
Let's get you're right about that, right, But if the
Rock was to say the wrong thing, that deal's done,
you know what I'm saying. And by rock and by
wrong thing, I don't even think like like if the
Rock were to be like, hey, you know what, I'm
the Rock and I've been I've been playing it, smiling,

(01:12:21):
and I'm like everybody loves me. I'm a beloved national figure.
You know what I'm saying. I don't. I don't really
jump too much into politics and take one side one
way or the other. But you know that Bernie Sanders guys,
really makes sense about this medicare for all things. It's done.
It's done. White people don't. White people don't like in million.

(01:12:41):
People don't like the Rock no more instantly, instantly, the
Rock is the only he's not even white. And they
don't they It's like either they don't know has I mean,
like just the last election, the Rock made vote for
Biden video and just what the fund is trumps sucking
up video, And I mean I read those comments on

(01:13:04):
that post. The majority of the people like I thought
you were one of oz, like I'll never watch another
Rock movie again, you know, And I'm like taking I'm
taking the time, I'm wasting, I'm wasting my life to
actually scroll down these things. And when I find one

(01:13:25):
that's like, oh you tell him Rock, I like that,
it's of note, like oh one of the Rocks fans
is cool. Okay, you know what I mean? But damn right,
probably if he was thinking about his career, he probably
should have come back to himself, Hey, we're we're gonna,

(01:13:46):
we're gonna be back with the music discussion right after
the break. We'll see you guys after the job, all right,
into the music discussion. So yeah, so in summary with

(01:14:07):
we're talking about Young Lords ultimately got co intel prode etcetera.
We ain't got to get into that depressing ship and
za I can talk a little bitou hip hop. So
we got this track by Moral Technique Young Lords UM,
in which he describes, you know, solidarity with Puerto Ricans
as a man of Peruvian descent, paranoia about cointel pro,
targeting critiques of capitalism, imperialism, and then interestingly describes how

(01:14:30):
incarceration um could be an illuminating experience UM, similar to
the sort of revelation that Chacha had while he was
in prison, and Malcolm X famously also had its in prison.
But let's let us do it off the coin soul pro, assassinations, aids, epidemic, crack,
refraction of nation. You know, it's it's though we were
kind of talking about it earlier. It's one of those

(01:14:52):
joints where you know, the song has the name the
Young Lords and it's a Mortal Technique feature. In about
like three, Yeah, Pumpkin had three the other rappers or
four other rappers, and I mean, in my opinion, I
think the only person who was sticking like hard to
the cut to the name of the song was probably
a Mortal technique. We do move your thoughts on that, Like,
I thought that he was really sticking to the topic

(01:15:14):
in terms of actually rapping about the Young Lords at
least a lot more than everybody else was. So from
that standpoint, I don't know how effective the song was
as far as, like, you know, educating people and putting
them up on the Young Lords and stuff like that.
But I like it when songs have names like this
and that's not necessarily the focus of the song because

(01:15:35):
like for someone like me, especially when I was younger,
I would be like, Okay, what does young Lords mean?
And then I would probably try to look it up
and you know what I'm saying, And then I mean,
I feel like one thing in moral technique has done
really well is that like interweaving like revolutionary thought and
thinking and critique in with just treat ship in a
way that doesn't feel like he's being too pan. I mean,

(01:15:55):
sometimes a little pedantic, but it's not like he's beating
you over the head with like civil rights Ship it's
just like yo, I was like here on the block,
like flipa g is like I went to jail. And
also like here's a little a little something about che Guevara,
here's a little shot about Malcolm X. What's up? Like
it does it feels but it doesn't feel very like
teachery uh. And that's kind of what this song was
like for me, where he's kind of talking about day

(01:16:17):
day of the life, you know, growing up in the barrio, etcetera.
But then it just like drops these things about like
fucking perialism, etcetera, which it kind of goes back to
you were saying earlier about like happens working in the
video and they're like seeing the credit cards or whatever.
It's kind of like that. It's got a little it's
like a little you know, political twins to it, but
it's still a lurs you win with like imagery that
is familiar if you like. I think that is at

(01:16:40):
his best is like when he's when he's just rapping
and the politics come through like whatever he's rapping about.
It's most of his songs where he's like sticking hard
to like a specific political subject and stuff like that.
I like him more like you said, when it could
sound like he's just rapping street ship or he's just

(01:17:00):
spitting battle bars even you know what I mean. But
like peppered in that, you've got like these these little
these little lines in these little nuggets of like, oh
he thinks this about that issue. Oh he thinks us
about that. Oh he's he's bringing awareness to this issue.
But then overall the song, that's not the intent of
the song, And I don't know for me it makes
for a more enjoyable listening experience. Agreed, But hopefully we

(01:17:23):
can do another episode more on like the Puerto Rican
independent Struggle, which is like fascinating, uh, young lords, Oh yeah,
I mean they so you know, they were about like
independence for all colonized people, but particular but you know,
with various levels to it. You know, they want self
determination for Puerto Rican communities and Latino communities in America.
Independence for what is you know, effectively a US colony.

(01:17:45):
I mean no, definitely a US colony in Puerto Rico.
But then like seeing the similarities and struggles for you know,
people in Vietnam or various other territories under US occupation
in various forums being economic or like literally military presence.
So I mean, like the Puerto Rico independence struggle is
still ongoing. So this is something that they were like

(01:18:05):
about whether people are out here today still like fighting
for in different ways. There's not like a unified you know,
there's been various different opinions on what should happen. But
hopefully we'll come back and talk about that sometime. So
and Mike before we bounce out, So, what do you
got going these days? What's up? Um? We're still doing

(01:18:27):
dead end stuff. You know. We have like got five
or six different podcasts going. Um, we don't get to
do you on all the podcasts? Go ahead? What are
you about to say? I'm on three of them? Three
of them? Um, But we don't get to dive deep
into political stuff like this. You know we have there's

(01:18:47):
the mic still on. That's probably the closest thing to
the media ever. Fire over there right now. Hey, bro,
we're trying. We're trying. We're trying. But I mean this
was fun because you know, y'all make me think I
don't have to think that much when I do shoot
think that hard? You know what I mean? For coming on? Man,

(01:19:11):
where can people find you? Um? You can mostly find
me with dead in hip Hop so YouTube dot com
forward slash deaden hip hop, talk about you know, hip
hop man, talk about rap albums, talk about hip hop culture. Um,
you can find me on my own ship, Um mike
ctown dot com, m y k e c t own
dot com. Um, you can find me talking about other

(01:19:32):
ship outside of hip hop, because you know, black people
are not a monolith and people need to start really
recognizing that ship. And I want to make a safe
space for weirdo black kids to not be called brido
black kids by white people. So come through. Well that's
what's up, y'all. Make sure you gotta check out that
in hip hop. Those album reviews are banging. I've been

(01:19:53):
watching that in hip hop since they have, Like when
y'all was having like three views on ship was good
old days. Yeah, I was watched in that ship. Yeah.
I was like, Yo, one day, I'm gonna be on that.
And you've been on there a couple of times, I know. Yeah.
All right, Well, um, Mariah, we gotta close us off
the way we always do. Right. Yes, I can do

(01:20:13):
some rap music and Mike, you canna drop some bars
on this rapide for you're gonna we're not gonna get
the white seats. I mean, if you let me know
ahead of time. I wrote you a fire sixteen but
you didn't say nothing. You know what I'm saying. Yet,
you gotta pay me a rap on the spot. Bro Alright,
we heard it. We heard it here first, Me and
Mariah are gonna start to go fund me and you're

(01:20:34):
gonna get sixteen bars from Mike Sea Town in the future. Yo, Joel,
can you drop a beat? Yeah, waiting on reparation, dope
knife Mike Sea Town, young lords. What They didn't listen
to the grievances when we was vocal license, So we

(01:20:54):
put the petty beef away and started organizing. They was
picturing it at first, So we hit the war Herst,
gathering all the troops, and then we started sitting in
the church. It's waiting on reparations. You better reimburse because
I eat by you niggas, and I hit you with
a curse. Now they keep us in the slums or
the one the cops hunt for. Better pay your homage
while you think they call us young lords. If you
really want more, we got it all in spades. Reparations bits.

(01:21:15):
You motherfucker's are the page. They want us on our
hand and knees to put us in the cage. They're
trying to make a sequel. Call it twenty years of slave. Look,
get in your place. I'm spin in your face. Want
to scare white folks more than critical race. And when
I hear be spent with the rhythm and paste, slap
you in the mouth and leaf you. Fuck us without
a taste. Dope, listen dope knife and you have been

(01:21:40):
listening to Waiting on Reparations production of I Heard We'll
see you guys next week. Listen to on Reparations only
I Heard Radio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.

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The Young Lords

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